Bitcoin Forum

To what extent do you think bitcoin is limited by un-userfriendliness?
I'm sure most of us here on the forums have worked out how to setup a wallet and make transactions but for the general population, particularly those who are somewhat computer illiterate using bitcoin would be a daunting task.
How can bitcoin cater for these people?

I have tried a few different wallets and the blockchain wallet seems to be the easiest to use at this point.

The official client is still in beta. Many services related to it are just getting going as well.
Bitcoin is not yet ready for prime time. Patience.

Do you think the official client will be more widely used than browser based wallets?

I don't like the term "official" client.  There is no official bittorent client, or linux distribution.  There tends to not be an "official" version of open source projects.

The Satoshi client is a reference implementation.  For that reason it is very important but I would imagine over time it will be used by a smaller and smaller percentage of users.  Web clients are one options but so are alternative full clients, lite clients, mobile clients, and niche clients (like a bitcoin "engine" connecting to a Enterprise DBMS which acts as the back end for major merchants, exchanges, and service providers).

My thoughts exactly. As a software developer, it's difficult to design software to be simple for non-technical end users. It's easier to expose all the cogs and levers and leave it to the user to figure out how to make sense of it all.

I've been building an easy-to-use wallet. It's not quite finished, but would folks reading this thread be interested in helping me test an alpha version? PM me if so. (EDIT: To clarify, I'm not making a web wallet, but a stand-alone client application.)

The fact that Bitcoin has so many hurdles is WHY you have an opportunity to buy them now at $10-$11 instead of the current price of AAPL or GOOG.

Many people want bitcoins now but if it's not as simple as logging in to their E-Trade and placing an order, they can't or won't do it.  I don't think that day will never come. Meanwhile the desire to own bitcoins is far greater than the number of holders.

Yes there are tons of hurdles. If you can remove one for everyone else, the value of any BTC you hold will reward you for it.

Some of the user-unfriendliness is probably rooted in the perceived inconsistence of user experience. With conventional payment processors like Paypal you do everything in a single environment. Create account, deposit money, send payment, receive payment, everything is done using the same interface. To use a standalone Bitcoin client you not only need to install software and setup secure backups, you also have to choose a currency exchange service. So you end up using at least two seperate and different user interfaces.

OP asked how Bitcoin can improve the situation and in this regard the answer is it can't, because this is the very foundation of how Bitcoin works. Available standalone clients are already pretty straightforward to use, so there's little room for improvement.

However, most computer illiterate people may choose to not use a standalone client but rather the webwallet supplied by their currency exchange service. Though they surrender some advantages of Bitcoin, they can have a consistent and familiar user experience, which is highly important. An account-based webwallet is quite similar to a Paypal after all.

And that's what (Y! Combinator's) CoinBase is aiming to do .. make using bitcoin appear little different from the experience when using PayPal.

As far as ease of use, the mobile clients are pretty user friendly.  I don't know how something like BitcoinSpinner for Android could be any simpler, for instance.

(well, some way to automatically backup the wallet's "master private key" without having to go through the "take a picture of the QR code" would be one method, but that's just a little unusual and inconvenient, not something necessarily difficult.)

I think client wise a simple balloon popup tutorial on first time startup would take the confusion away for those who have trouble getting the hang of how the clients work(i think this would also make some people rather use 1 of the clients then a website for their wallet)

Something i was wondering about why it was not in any of the clients(that i checked) was the ability to check the exchange prizes based on what exchange you want to get the info from eg mtgox or something it would make it easier to see how much you already have also if you where to convert it over into actual cash.
Just something that would save people time from having to go to an exchange to check how much their bitcoins are worth.

Or even a step further would be to be able to use direct an client towards mtgox then give it your api key and trade directly out of your client that would solve the having to use 2 places to trade at.

Bitcoin in its current stage is still too complicated, and too risky (in terms of vulnerability to coin-stealing malware) for the average Joe.

No problem, the system is still in its infancy. Or actually, not the system, but it's practical implementation. New Bitcoin clients and applications will emerge to better suit the needs and level of understanding of the masses.

This was to be expected, groundbreaking revolutionary technology like this takes years to be adopted.

I am old enough to remember when the idea of sending money via electronic means such as PayPal was considered retarded.

When I told my friends about Ebay and Paypal they burst out laughing.  The idea you would send an item of value through the mail without first getting paid was laughable to them.

My how the times have changed.

+1 some of those same people are now eBay Power Sellers

Agreed, trying to explain how bitcoins work to the average joe seems too complicated at the moment. Most of them generally wonder how you can "generate free money" through bitcoin mining. There needs to be better clarification around this? :/

BitcoinSpinner in particular to me seems very easy to use. I'd let Grandma use that.

However... that isn't the client that people tend to hear about. The ease of use needs to be more prominent.

I usually clarify the mining question by explaining that it's not really the most interesting or important part of Bitcoin. (Technically speaking, of course, it's very important, but not for general end-users.) I'm really eager to get my easy-to-use bitcoin client out there for folks to play with.

I had real trouble with the default client, it took days to sync and gobbled up my CPU and harddrive space.

Once I looked at how the blockchain wallet worked(running out of the browser, withholding private keys from the server etc) I find it to be a very easy to use and effective wallet. I also like that it can allow the same wallet on multiple devices.

Technical unfriendliness is definitely an issue, yes. But the other aspect is that Bitcoin has made it clearer that people don't really understand any system of money - that's all handled by the banks for 99% of people. Getting to grips with Bitcoin means not just an interface understanding, but also a value understanding.

Banks are "successful" - and mainstream currencies by extension - not because they handle this (they do, but badly), but because they act as risk-taker, or a party trusted to understand the economic mechanisms in place. When things go wrong, it's the banks that take the blame - not the underlying economic system, and not the people whose money it "is".

Bitcoin has a triple whammy of trying to explain the economics without the banks, the technicals of cryptocurrency, and the (often annoying and glitchy) interfaces.

Hell, even I don't understand a lot of the stuff that goes on already. But I understand enough to use it - and in a way, that makes me part of that replacement for the "trust" that people put in banks. I've carried out a couple of exchanges for people new to Bitcoin, and they always ask questions like "how stable do you think Bitcoin is", and so on. There's great value in just being part of a system/community/scene/whatever, especially when perceived from outside of that.

People will tolerate a reasonable level of technical difficulty if it's worth it. For example, what if you could only buy iPads with btc? It would incentivize the masses to find easiest ways to use them. A super simple solution would eventually evolve.

I don't think user experience is limiting bitcoin much. The lack of mainstream BTC-dependent services is what is limiting bitcoin. As soon as a tentpole application is developed, managing btc will quickly fade as an obstacle to adoption.

I'm sure it does limit bitcoin somewhat, but remember this is still in beta. For a beta level new technology it is not particularly hard.

Here's my answer for userfriendliness for Bitcoin: VanillaWallet http://vanillawallet.com/

"Double-click to run, or command-line: java -jar VanillaWallet.jar Important: Experimental software! Use at your own risk. (See Caveats.)
Thank You! 1VWezk22HHy8ddeQMeNS4RDrBuX2zgweE Version 0.2 (Alpha) This software is provided "as-is" without warranty of any kind, express or implied. Use at your own risk. This software is not yet well-tested. You may lose your bitcoins!"

Whomever built that website has zero understanding of New Users.

This reminds me of people who insist http://www.openbsd.org is easy and friendly for new users if they would just read the seven hundred pages of documentation and bootlick the social malcontents who are expert at it.  Yes, easy.   8)

Ha! Yes, I totally agree. Even Ubuntu, which claims to be for "normal human beings" is barely usable without a working knowledge of Linux.

I realize that Java apps are not the easiest thing for non-technical end users. Consider this an Alpha "tech preview" -- I'll make a statement on the site to that effect. When I get to Beta, I plan to provide platform builds (Win .exe, Mac .dmg). See the Potential Features section of the Instructions.

Thanks for your feedback!

UPDATE: (10 min later) Does the new "Important" text help clarify the current status of VanillaWallet for prospective new users? vanillawallet.com (http://vanillawallet.com)

The reference client is definitely a major point of difficulty right now. It takes days to catch up the current block. The other primary pain point is currency conversion. Considering transactions can't be charged back, you would think turning BTC into USD would have MUCH less friction.

Just adding another vote for: Yes, absolutely user-unfriendliness is limiting bitcoin.  I'm worried that the developers don't actually acknowledge the usability problems, or that they think they're not serious.

I don't know...  There is a certain amount of "unfriendliness" when you go Open Source.  Its not like Apple where it "just works" for mom & dad.

Bitcoin does have a bit of RTFM in it.  Not really sure how to solve it.  In some ways you can't.  One 15Ghash miner I knew lost 80BTC in a wallet when the USB stick it was on died.  RIP coins. This isn't VISA people!

I repeat: it is still in beta

How easy to use was a PC in the 80s ? Or the internet in 90s ?

That is an excellent point! Bitcoin is an inherently complicated technology, and it'll take time for developers to really capture its essence. Regarding the defacto Satoshi client, it's job isn't to be easy, but to implement all the core features correctly (although it seems to also showcase some ancillary features that muddle the focus, which is historically understandable, since it had to show what could be done in the first place).

Bitcoin is extremely non-user-friendly.  Blockchain seems to be the most user-friendly wallet service, but it still has almost no support or help.  If you haven't done significant research into Bitcoin outside of that site, you'll be completely lost.  On top of that, the whole process of converting dollars into Bitcoins is generally pretty complicated.  When it's not complicated, such as when using BitInstant, you have to pay a pretty big overhead for the convenience.  Perhaps even worse, you have to deal with unknown companies.  A lot of them give off a fly-by-night vibe.  It's not like hopping in your car and driving down to the nearest megabank branch.  That's why I've decided that for me, mining is the way to go.  I'm converting dollars into Bitcoin with no overhead (already had my graphics card) using electricity as the medium of exchange.

Anyway, as far as the future goes, I can only see Bitcoin breaking out of its niche status if it gains wider popularity in the general economy.  I've seen a lot of Bitcoin auction sites clones come and go.  There are a few up right now, but it's not a huge market, and it's definitely not established.  Browsing Bitmit, it appears that many of the goods being auctioned are counterfeit/pirated in the case of software or priced more than one could buy the same product new from a reputable retailer in USD for physical goods.

id like to know more on how people typically find out about  bitcoin and how they then begin to use it. for me I think iI read about it from another alternative currency program, I think that was ripple. I was very confused at first, and didn't know what was happening. Had the usual port forwarding problem and didn't even know what the block chain was. my balance was zero so at that point iI almost lost interest. I remember just quitting the program. that was in the days of sub 10 cent rates. at that point iI didn't even know there was an exchange! aA few months later I heard about it again when the price doubled to something still less than a dollar so iI decided to buy a small amount as it might be useful for paying for an ssh account. I only wanted to buy that one thing- no speculation. I gave up on mining after about a day.

I suspect a similar process happens now. People probably go straight to bitcoin.org download the client and go from there. I think the client there should have links to help people along such as where to exchange, p2p pool and block chain less versions along with why it's worth the wait to get the block chain.

If someone is introduced in person to bitcoin the process is pro ably going to be a lot smoother but at the moment it's probably mostly from online.

cli cidently iI asked at Brighton maker faire for bitcoin addresses and of the ~8 people iI asked none of them had heard of it. It would have Ben useful as iI ran out of cash. These are all intelligent people, I should have donated a few coins to show it off

I understand that many people here in the Forum are Software developers or somehow associated to software. I still have the feeling many (most) here don't get how confusing bitcoin is to the average joe.

Also when I look at the alternative clients that you can currently use. Most of them don't make it easier and some even worse.

What would be a great step to make it easier would be a way that people don't have necessarily deal with the BTC-Address numbers. A way to directly add addresses to you client from webpages would be a great step IMO.

For example:

On bitmint I have just on Button "Send BTC to bitmint". When I click on it my BTC-Client opens and asks me "Do you want to add "Bitmint Akkount Akka" to your adress Book?". Now I have that Name in my address book and can send BTC to it, without having to deal with the addressees.

Also a button "receive" BTC, where by on clicking on it my Client transfers a receiving address in the background. And I just have to put in the amount.


That would be a great step to make the BTC use easier.

Can't be so hard to implement this feature, can it?

You know, I sell small quantities of coin to these types of people.
They really rely on my help. I have walked most of my regular customers through problems with their transactions on the telephone.

A lot of people say eBay is a coin sellers disaster waiting to happen and they are right especially for larger coin amounts. But It's much more of a place where noobs can buy a small number of coins and get help from the person who sold them the coins.

Bitcoin can cater to these people by offering a hand-holding redemption and purchase service.

To the person who sets this up commercially please hire me. I code mobile apps for a living now and I like it but my boss sucks.

It severely limits Bitcoin I would say. Even tech savvy people I know don't use it/don't get it because it is just too vague and because of the hackers threats etc. That's why I think the greatest effort in the community should be on making it easily accesible for normal people.

With regards to wallet services I think Coinbase.com is doing the best job in making it simple and abstracting away the technical stuff.

Hihi,

I think that the BTC protocal/software/community has to sort out a few fundamentals before BTC can go really mainstream.

1. I don't have two BTCs to rub together, but if I was wealthy and had millions of BTCs, it would be far too easy to accidently or drunkenly send it all off to an address in the ether which may or may not belong to anybody. There needs to be checks and balances in place so that the average person doesn't wreck their life at the click on a mouse button. Well, it's their own damn stupid fault you may say, but any mainstream transaction system should cater to the lowest common denominator of stupidity. There needs to be a fine line between allowing a user full freedom with their money and having helpful restrictions so that they don't end up jumping off the nearest tall building.

2. You got to ASSUME that the average user's hard disk is compromised and unencrypted and that Fred Smith doesn't know about the benefits of encryption or even that he should do it whenever possible. This is an education exercise for sure. But any mainstream desktop wallet should assume it is going to be installed in an hostile environment.

3. Damn that blockchain takes forever to download. You have to assume the average user isn't using the latest CPU tech and doesn't have the solid state drive. I stopped mine after 36 hours, probably had another 48 hours to go. Just opened a wallet on blockchain. Oh btw, somebody should be buying up any domains with bitcoin derivative in it and hold them until the community needs it because nobody I know is going to store their money on a website called blockchain.com

4. We need a part-time professional journo to write articles for the mass media. We can pay him or her in BTC of course. Also need an army of ninjas going round and defending bitcoins honour whenever websites or user comments on blogs say something false about bitcoin. Ninja has their BTC address with their comment of course!

Anyhoo, just a noob's 2 mBTC

I like to think of it like this: If your grandma can use it without asking you a question in the first ten minutes, you've achieved the right amount of user-friendliness. It needs to be so simple that it becomes routine instantly. Any less and you won't see mass adoption.

Very good criteria. I built VanillaWallet (http://vanillawallet.com) to be as simple as possible, but it still has some rough edges. My focus right now is the core functionality (which has been very stable). I'm awaiting BitCoinJ v0.6, so I can use its wallet encryption, then I will go into Beta. A work in progress, but I think it has potential to be a much easier wallet for new users (as well as tech savvy folks). Community feedback is always welcome (discussion topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99845.0)).

I don't like the term "official" client.

Infrastructure will happen. Eventually.

Fiat has decades and ridiculous quantities of money spent building up it's electronic infrastructure to the polished high speed state it is currently in.

Bitcoin has years.... And mere weeks of actual popularity. Give it time, infrastructure is costly and time consuming.