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Title: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: wilth1 on March 20, 2015, 06:53:17 PM It seems like this could represent another ongoing "success" indicator.
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: gentlemand on March 20, 2015, 06:56:28 PM Other than coins still waiting to be sold off, I'd be very surprised if it's anything other than zero. They've got their own money to play with.
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: bitcool on March 20, 2015, 06:58:20 PM be careful what you wish for ;)
Quote This Comment introduced Bitcoin in conjunction with the history of the International Monetary Fund in order to demonstrate the possibility of future conflict between the two. The peer-to-peer, decentralized, and largely unregulated system that is Bitcoin contains the potential to threaten the global economic stability that the TMF was created to protect. The threat posed by Bitcoin is, for the moment, only theoretical. But as more and more people come to understand the advantages of digital money over paper money, the threat it poses becomes increasingly real. If the future of e-commerce entails a transition to digital currencies, it is critical that our economic, political, and legal institutions are prepared. Recognizing the importance of Bitcoin in the context of digital currencies is the first step in understanding how to best plan for the future. How, when, and to what extent it will grow remains to be seen. But the potential consequences of widespread adoption of the Bitcoin are already palpable. In order to guard against the global economic destabilization that could occur if and when the world decides to adopt digital currencies, we must consider ways in which our national and international institutions can guide that transition in the here and now. At present, the IMF has at least two options. It can attempt to exercise indirect control over digital currencies vis-A-vis its member nations by expanding the scope of Article IV, Section 5 of the Articles of Agreement. Alternatively, it can attempt to exercise direct control over digital currencies by offering them a form of quasi-membership status, where increased legitimacy is traded for Bitcoin users' business. Regardless of which measure is chosen, the potential need for a method to combat speculative attacks using Bitcoin is clear. As the Internet continues to play an increasingly important role in how we conduct commerce, our institutions have to adjust to the new challenges this change creates. The evolution of Bitcoin is no exception. Although still in its nascent stages, Bitcoin and other digital currencies like it are projected to become important players in the future of e-commerce. The time to consider how to prepare for that future is now, before practical problems arise. http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1407 Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: seoincorporation on March 20, 2015, 07:01:49 PM It seems like this could represent another ongoing "success" indicator. This is hard to know because we don't really know who own the btc. We can only see wallets with a lot of coins but we can't know who is the owner of that coins just following the transactions. Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: deisik on March 20, 2015, 08:17:11 PM be careful what you wish for ;) Quote ... Alternatively, it can attempt to exercise direct control over digital currencies by offering them a form of quasi-membership status, where increased legitimacy is traded for Bitcoin users' business. ... I'm utterly curious as to whom they are going to offer a membership status in the IMF. Who are those "them" actually, all bitcoin holders taken together and separately, or just miners alone? Why would anyone in their right mind want to have anything to do with this International Misery Fund? Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: Mr Felt on March 20, 2015, 11:51:13 PM This is an interesting segment of the Comment.
BTW, this is a policy oriented law review article (i.e., lots of pontification and speculation) written by a student member of the law review its published in. The person has since graduated and practices in a litigation group of a solid firm. In other words, consider the source when evaluating the article (a busy first year associate that has no time for this stuff). Its an interesting topic, though. Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: bitboy11 on March 23, 2015, 12:10:24 PM Assuming that they want to have a controlling interest in this particular form of money, I would say that they probably own a fair share of bitcoins in various unmentioned wallets.
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: Amph on March 23, 2015, 12:42:48 PM i think none, if they went serious about it, they would control a large stack already and manipulate every exchange like nothing
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: chmod755 on March 23, 2015, 01:49:30 PM It seems like this could represent another ongoing "success" indicator. While some U.S. states are planning to accept Bitcoin for payments (New York, Utah, New Hampshire) I don't think that any government or central bank already owns bitcoins that are part of their budget (only from seizure) Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: ajareselde on March 23, 2015, 02:08:19 PM There is no way of knowing this one for sure, they could have nothing, but on the other hand maybe they are hoarding up, just in case things get too serious for them, but
thats a longshot, since it would be much more financially wise just to lobby against bitcoin altogeather, like they do against everything else that doesnt suit them. cheers Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: chmod755 on March 23, 2015, 02:55:06 PM just to lobby against bitcoin altogeather, like they do against everything else that doesnt suit them. Really? There are Bitcoin businesses and people making money with Bitcoin in most countries. Do you really think an economy like Russia will be better off by banning Bitcoin than the UK? Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: manselr on March 23, 2015, 06:43:38 PM Other than coins still waiting to be sold off, I'd be very surprised if it's anything other than zero. They've got their own money to play with. The logical thing for them to do is to hold at least a % of those coins, but they are probably auditing 100% of the stolen stacks from exchanges because they probably don't even know what to do with them.Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: Q7 on March 24, 2015, 02:17:38 PM Until the Victorian government announces that they are going to auction off bitcoins which they confiscated, I had the impression that only the US marshals had the coin. And it will not be a surprise if there are even more bitcoins held by government from other countries and that could even include the central banks.
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: manselr on March 25, 2015, 06:18:41 PM Until the Victorian government announces that they are going to auction off bitcoins which they confiscated, I had the impression that only the US marshals had the coin. And it will not be a surprise if there are even more bitcoins held by government from other countries and that could even include the central banks. I still think they are probably too dumb to keep any Bitcoins, they would rather sell it and spend 100% of the gains on gold if they want to store value.Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: randy8777 on March 25, 2015, 07:20:37 PM i don't think they own a single satoshi beside the seized coins that they have sold or are going to sell.
regarding banks. they are interested in the blockchain. not really in bitcoin. Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: bytezero on March 27, 2015, 04:45:48 AM I believe that the banks will not only want to but have to get into the game on Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies... – it’s just a question of time
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: doggieTattoo on March 28, 2015, 12:46:29 AM I know that the FBI holds the most amount of bitcoin in the world, at aournd liek 100000 bitcoins, but that is from raids on the deep web and silk road and all of those types of sites. I am sure that the banks that are getting involved with crypto currency have their own stock of it, for normal bank like purposes. I am sure i total, the U.S governmant and banks combined may have a little under 500k.
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: chmod755 on March 28, 2015, 01:06:57 AM I know that the FBI holds the most amount of bitcoin in the world, at aournd liek 100000 bitcoins AFAIK the U.S. government seized 173,991, but sold 30k of that in June 2014 (http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/02/us-marshals-have-sold-30000-silk-road-bitcoins/), 50k in December 2014 (http://fortune.com/2014/12/04/bitcoins-seized-from-silk-road-on-offer-in-a-second-auction/) and 50k in March 2015 (http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/06/us-marshals-sell-the-last-of-the-seized-silk-road-bitcoins/) ~43,991 Bitcoins should be remaining from SR, of course their stash could grow again, if people continue to do stupid things (other SR-like markets, unregistered brokers/dealers, etc.) I am sure that the banks that are getting involved with crypto currency have their own stock of it, for normal bank like purposes. It's highly unlikely that any bank keeps Bitcoins directly as a part of their assets - if they want to get involved they will acquire shares in Bitcoin companies or licensed Bitcoin funds Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: johnyj on March 28, 2015, 09:33:18 PM It's all depends on fiat money's status, in US very unlikely due to super strength of USD. But in some other countries it is not so certain if the government would like to have some bitcoin as foreign currency reserve, if they are able to handle the technical details of bitcoin of course.
It can be used as a tool to overcome the capital control by banks Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: Bit_Happy on March 28, 2015, 09:39:11 PM be careful what you wish for ;) Quote ... Alternatively, it can attempt to exercise direct control over digital currencies by offering them a form of quasi-membership status, where increased legitimacy is traded for Bitcoin users' business. ... I'm utterly curious as to whom they are going to offer a membership status in the IMF. Who are those "them" actually, all bitcoin holders taken together and separately, or just miners alone? Why would anyone in their right mind want to have anything to do with this International Misery Fund? Sounds like a job for the Bitcoin Foundation? Isn't that their mission, to sell us out to the global elite, while paying the developers to make "approved upgrades"? Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: deisik on March 29, 2015, 09:56:04 AM be careful what you wish for ;) Quote ... Alternatively, it can attempt to exercise direct control over digital currencies by offering them a form of quasi-membership status, where increased legitimacy is traded for Bitcoin users' business. ... I'm utterly curious as to whom they are going to offer a membership status in the IMF. Who are those "them" actually, all bitcoin holders taken together and separately, or just miners alone? Why would anyone in their right mind want to have anything to do with this International Misery Fund? Sounds like a job for the Bitcoin Foundation? Isn't that their mission, to sell us out to the global elite, while paying the developers to make "approved upgrades"? Your "approved upgrades" sounds a bit scary to me. Moreover, if they are really going to offer a membership status in the IMF to the Bitcoin Foundation, this most certainly means they aim to get control over Bitcoin through the Foundation, but since the latter has no control over the blockchain, why would they in the first place? Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: lalaisen on March 30, 2015, 07:56:00 AM I think noone can know that because Bitcoin is anonymous unless they announced that
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: loan4 on March 30, 2015, 04:04:16 PM let's ask them because no one can answer your question except them
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: vankoovo on April 01, 2015, 05:02:00 AM No one can know that unless they talk it out.
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: GreenStox on April 03, 2015, 01:42:37 PM I dont think they own a single bitcoin. If a central bank buys something you would see obvious clues about that.
A central bank doesnt buy 1000$ worth of bitcoins, they buy them in billion $ quantities. If they would be serious then the bitcoin market cap now would be like 1 trillion $ of which 98% would be from central banks. If they are not serious , then they dont buy a single one because they got other things to worry about. Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: AtheistAKASaneBrain on April 03, 2015, 09:38:11 PM No one can know that unless they talk it out. Yeah I think its impossible to know, unless they make the mistake of making an address public that is linked to something gov related then we could keep track of it on the blockchain lol.Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: bit73 on April 05, 2015, 01:13:28 PM I guess central banks and private banks only own bitcoins for research matters so far.
They released some research papers or announced to develope own blockchain-based coins: http://www.coindesk.com/european-central-bank-digital-currencies-inherently-unstable/ http://www.coindesk.com/ubs-to-research-blockchain-technology-in-london-lab/ Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: aso118 on April 06, 2015, 12:16:52 AM I dont think they own a single bitcoin. If a central bank buys something you would see obvious clues about that. A central bank doesnt buy 1000$ worth of bitcoins, they buy them in billion $ quantities. If they would be serious then the bitcoin market cap now would be like 1 trillion $ of which 98% would be from central banks. If they are not serious , then they dont buy a single one because they got other things to worry about. Central banks/governments do not have to buy bitcoins. Seized bitcoins (like Silk Road bitcoins) are included in their kitty too. In the future, if governments allow payments for services through bitcoins (there is already some talk regarding this), their holdings will increase. Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: chmod755 on April 06, 2015, 03:21:12 AM In the future, if governments allow payments for services through bitcoins (there is already some talk regarding this), their holdings will increase. Only if they decide to keep a balance in bitcoins... Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: Totaldice on April 06, 2015, 04:36:26 PM The ones they have publicly admitted to having (Dark market coins) have been sold off I believe. That isn't to say they might have stashes of coins out of public view.
Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: aso118 on April 07, 2015, 12:32:19 AM In the future, if governments allow payments for services through bitcoins (there is already some talk regarding this), their holdings will increase. Only if they decide to keep a balance in bitcoins... Yup. Since most governments run a deficit, it will only be rich governments which do this. If Bitcoin becomes some kind of a reserve currency, then most central banks will tend to hoard it. ;D Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: Amph on April 07, 2015, 07:20:35 AM In the future, if governments allow payments for services through bitcoins (there is already some talk regarding this), their holdings will increase. Only if they decide to keep a balance in bitcoins... they don't need it, they are already rich, they can print useless money all days, this is why they are not interested in bitcoin the only bitcoin they will ever have are those confiscated, and then used for various auctions Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: GreenStox on April 07, 2015, 07:32:45 AM I dont think they own a single bitcoin. If a central bank buys something you would see obvious clues about that. A central bank doesnt buy 1000$ worth of bitcoins, they buy them in billion $ quantities. If they would be serious then the bitcoin market cap now would be like 1 trillion $ of which 98% would be from central banks. If they are not serious , then they dont buy a single one because they got other things to worry about. Central banks/governments do not have to buy bitcoins. Seized bitcoins (like Silk Road bitcoins) are included in their kitty too. In the future, if governments allow payments for services through bitcoins (there is already some talk regarding this), their holdings will increase. They already auctioned those coins, so i dont think they hold them. Besides that was a law enforcement agency holding the coins and not the treasury. There is a difference between coins held as evidence in a crime, or coins held in a treasury account which then can be used for spending or who knows what. Title: Re: How many bitcoins do governments and central banks own? Post by: mrhelpful on April 07, 2015, 05:21:57 PM It wouldnt be the government, but more towards banks thats have ties with private networks between companies.
Companies that have access to large transactions doing insider deals can take place. Eg: Coinbase Instead of a bank getting involved, they have friends who place their money into a VC firm, which then funds the start ups like coinbase. They play both sides of this game, it was never a competition since thats an illusion for most. They play to win, not to lose. Its a zero sum game, 1 way bets. |