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Title: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: JeanW on March 28, 2015, 09:08:06 PM I would like to create a list of legitimate uses of Bitcoins. Here’s why:
On October 14, 2014, my husband BurtW was arrested by the Postal Police and had his Bitcoins seized by the federal government. Sound crazy? Here’s a direct quote from the U.S. Postal Inspection Service website: Asset Forfeiture The Asset Forfeiture Program is an integral law enforcement tool that benefits the Postal Inspection Service by: (omitted) . . . 3. increasing revenue for law enforcement purposes, and 4. providing an enhanced 'esprit de corps' among law enforcement through equitable sharing. The U.S. Postal Inspectors, a/k/a dark government, are instrumental in obtaining search warrants to search homes of Bitcoin traders and seize Bitcoins for the federal Asset Forfeiture Fund. The evidentiary support for the search and seizures is the sworn testimony by U.S. Postal Inspectors that there are few legitimate reasons for Bitcoins; therefore, anyone with Bitcoins is mostly likely engaged in criminal activity. I would like to have a list of legitimate reasons for Bitcoins to give to every judge in the 10th Judicial District so that no judge ever puts a middle aged engineer in solitary confinement again to give the U.S. Postal Inspection Service and U.S. Attorney’s Office time to steal that engineer’s Bitcoins. These are the legitimate uses I could think of:
Please help me with creating a list of legitimate uses for Bitcoins. www.burtw.com www.jmwagner.com Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: HI-TEC99 on March 28, 2015, 09:31:11 PM There is a big list here.
http://www.coindesk.com/information/what-can-you-buy-with-bitcoins/ A few US based things on their list follow. Quote CheapAir.com, the California-based online travel booking website, started taking bitcoin in November 2013 and announced in July that it has completed more than $1.5m in bitcoin sales on flights, around 200,000 hotels and Amtrak railway bookings via its platform. The Sacramento Kings NBA franchise accepts bitcoin for products including tickets, jerseys, hot dogs and beer. The team says it will accept the currency online and at the Sleep Train Arena, its home stadium. The San Jose Earthquakes, a soccer club from California, implemented bitcoin integration at the team’s Buck Shaw Stadium on 25th May. Coinbase is acting as the stadium’s bitcoin payments processor, leveraging the exchange’s tablet app to accept payments. Game attendees can use bitcoin to buy tickets at the box office and additionally pay for concessions at certain locations and buy merchandise at the stadium gift shop. US satellite service provider DISH Network announced that it will start accepting bitcoin payments later this year. The Colorado-based company is one of the biggest content providers in America, with more than 14 million pay-TV subscribers. DISH says bitcoin payments will be made available to all customers who decide to make one-time payments on mydish.com starting in the third quarter of 2014, but it has not yet revealed an exact date. Once it does, it will become the biggest company to accept bitcoin to date. Last year DISH Network Corporation reported revenue of $13.9bn. The company has more than 30,000 employees. Following its successful test with bitcoin micropayments provider BitWall back in February, the Chicago Sun-Times has announced that it has partnered with San Francisco-based bitcoin startup Coinbase to accept bitcoin payments for subscriptions. The announcement makes the Sun-Times the first US newspaper to accept bitcoin as a payment option. A property listings site in the US gives a discount to users who advertise on the site and pay in bitcoin. The listings site, called RentHop, is offering landlords and agents who advertise properties in New York a discount of up to 60% if they pay for their adverts in bitcoin. RentHop customers pay for ads with credits purchased from the site. How about paying for education with bitcoin? Orlando, Florida-based online interactive education specialist Treehouse now accepts bitcoin for its subscription web design and web development education services. The firm, which to date has raised $24.6m through six funding rounds, boasts 70,000 students who use the platform to learn valuable skills in languages and software such as Android, CSS, HTML, Java, jQuery, iOS and Ruby, among others. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: abercrombie on March 29, 2015, 12:54:30 AM Remittances are a $500 billion market and a killer app for Bitcoin. I'm paraphrasing, but Andreas M. Antonopoulos said something like this in one of his many Youtube speeches:
If you're not white and need to send money to family in the 3rd world, Western Union and Moneygram have a nasty habit of increasing remittance prices to the poorest nations.
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Gleb Gamow on March 29, 2015, 01:08:16 AM Quote The evidentiary support for the search and seizures is the sworn testimony by U.S. Postal Inspectors that there are few legitimate reasons for Bitcoins; therefore, anyone with Bitcoins is mostly likely engaged in criminal activity. Here's what I would do, Jean, if I were in position to do such. Since the USPS has taken the steadfast position that Bitcoin is used mainly for criminal activity, then they should add to their formidable list of restrictions - https://www.usps.com/ship/shipping-restrictions.htm - anything related to Bitcoin, e.g., miners, checks for bitcoins, periodicals, etc., for it's obvious to them that this Bitcoin thingy should be stopped in its tracks by all means and at all cost. Surely, the USPS doesn't want to be party to such activities by continuing to process Bitcoin-related mailings, hence their public position, ergo in the name of protecting the public, Bitcoin-related mailings should be 100% restricted. If they don't follow through with this concerning proposal, then by default there's no concern, and the USPS will have fingers pointed at them for causing an uproar when one wasn't warranted. The beauty part of this is that the fingers mentioned will be attached to hands belonging to those on Wall Street. Again, I'm not one to start such a campaign, but hopefully those in unique positions able to read through what I've proposed will pick up the mantle of what I've outlined, in retrospect calling their bluff (for lack of a better term). FWIW, I mentioned Burt in a post penned today pertaining to BFL using BitPay as an exchange to convert $10M+ USD worth of bitcoins to fiat that was deposited in some unknown bank under Sonny Vleisides' control. Surely, whatever Burt supposedly done nowhere reaches that magnitude. Finally, thread related, there was the first ever NCAA Bitcoin St. Petersburg Bowl last year. I'm sure that the USPS garnered a few hundred grand worth of mailings directly related to this one event alone over the course of months leading up to the event, along with subsequent mailings after the fact. Oh, did I mention that the USPS is currently being used again for mailings as the second Bitcoin St. Petersburg Bowl for later this year is just starting to get geared up. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: jbreher on March 29, 2015, 04:16:58 AM The evidentiary support for the search and seizures is the sworn testimony by U.S. Postal Inspectors that there are few legitimate reasons for Bitcoins; therefore, anyone with Bitcoins is mostly likely engaged in criminal activity. Hey Jean - good to see you here. Is this from the search warrant? 'Few legitimate uses' doesn't seem to me to meet any sort of requirement for a search. Somehow, we the People need to find a way to hold these jackboots to a higher standard. More directly related to your inquiry... Under the American system, if something is not explicitly illegal, then it is fully legal. If we the people budge on this fundamental principle, there is absolutely no Liberty. Amy idea if the other raids the same day were based upon the same attestation? Edit: the phrase 'denial of rights under color of law' seems to stand out to me. That's a crime too, isn't it? Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Chef Ramsay on March 29, 2015, 04:22:41 AM Remittances are a $500 billion market and a killer app for Bitcoin. I'm paraphrasing, but Andreas M. Antonopoulos said something like this in one of his many Youtube speeches: I was hoping that this would create a major bullish trend but it seems the market hasn't pounced on this niche to the fullest in any meaningful way. Just 5% would move this market in a major way, 10% even more and making everyone some serious coinage. Anywhere north of that plus additions of other related markets and it's moonish and more.If you're not white and need to send money to family in the 3rd world, Western Union and Moneygram have a nasty habit of increasing remittance prices to the poorest nations.
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: JeanW on March 29, 2015, 05:23:39 PM Thanks to all for replying to my post. I have a young child so I can check in only once in awhile.
Even though my house was raided and my items taken, I am not allowed to see the sealed search warrant and the supporting documentation. I have called and written the magistrate and I have called and written Customs and Border Patrol (yes, they have their hand in the till too) demanding to know the grounds for the search of my home and business and the seizure of my personal and corporate property. After much complaining and protesting on my part, all I have been able to learn is that a US Postal Inspector serves as an expert witness and testifies that there are few legitimate purposes for Bitcoins. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: OrphanedGland on March 29, 2015, 05:33:32 PM The legitimate use of Bitcoin is to protect against the illegitimacy of the state. I assume you, Kim Dotcom, and Cypriots now need no convincing of this.
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: jonald_fyookball on March 29, 2015, 09:47:29 PM sorry to hear all this Jean. I contributed to the piggy bank fund.
They cannot take love away from us. Youre not alone, these kinds of injustices have been happening for decades. Very unfortunate that it happened to your family...Try to keep your spirits up. The law is on your side, don't give up. I do hope there is eventually victory for you and I hope there is forfeiture reform at some point in this country. Bitcoin is a legitimate investment and hedge against inflation. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: elvizzzzzzz on March 30, 2015, 08:13:54 AM Hmmm .... I think the phrase Dark Government is more appropriate than Deep State in this instance.
Again, I'm sorry to read of your ongoing oppression by the state. The creation of laws that are near impossible to comply with is the very definition of totalitarianism. I'd point out that it is impossible to prove a negative. This fact goes to the basis of all law, for example, innocent until proven guilty. Not much help though. I'd suggest getting some of the law enforcement people from the Silk Road case into the witness box to testify to the fact that the US Government is selling bitcoin. Then challenge the prosecution to define which action by the State is deemed by the State to be illegal, and why action against that part of the State is or is not pending. Don't get me started on all the other things the Government does that are beyond questionable. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: countryfree on March 30, 2015, 10:56:23 AM This story is absolutely frightening. I thought sealed search warrants were only for terrorists! I suggest to get in touch with the Bitcoin Foundation. This is the official voice of BTC, and explaining the world what's BTC is part of their mission. They should be able to help.
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Furio on March 30, 2015, 11:30:55 AM I would like to create a list of legitimate uses of Bitcoins. Here’s why: On October 14, 2014, my husband BurtW was arrested by the Postal Police and had his Bitcoins seized by the federal government. Sound crazy? Here’s a direct quote from the U.S. Postal Inspection Service website: Asset Forfeiture The Asset Forfeiture Program is an integral law enforcement tool that benefits the Postal Inspection Service by: (omitted) . . . 3. increasing revenue for law enforcement purposes, and 4. providing an enhanced 'esprit de corps' among law enforcement through equitable sharing. The U.S. Postal Inspectors, a/k/a dark government, are instrumental in obtaining search warrants to search homes of Bitcoin traders and seize Bitcoins for the federal Asset Forfeiture Fund. The evidentiary support for the search and seizures is the sworn testimony by U.S. Postal Inspectors that there are few legitimate reasons for Bitcoins; therefore, anyone with Bitcoins is mostly likely engaged in criminal activity. I would like to have a list of legitimate reasons for Bitcoins to give to every judge in the 10th Judicial District so that no judge ever puts a middle aged engineer in solitary confinement again to give the U.S. Postal Inspection Service and U.S. Attorney’s Office time to steal that engineer’s Bitcoins. These are the legitimate uses I could think of:
Please help me with creating a list of legitimate uses for Bitcoins. www.burtw.com www.jmwagner.com Interpersonal exchange of value between private persons, that's not illigal! Investment in projects, yet also in time. Alternative currency for people condemned to dictators with hyper inflation, such as Venezuela and Zimbabwe Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: MF Doom on March 30, 2015, 12:00:48 PM Interpersonal exchange of value between private persons, that's not illigal! Investment in projects, yet also in time. Alternative currency for people condemned to dictators with hyper inflation, such as Venezuela and Zimbabwe yes, it could, but using it as a store of value is very dangerous, when buying in at any level really Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: DarkHyudrA on March 30, 2015, 01:04:58 PM Not only some stores like Dell and Newegg accept it, but exchanges need to be legal to operate, so that counts too, no?
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: kevinlarr on March 30, 2015, 03:16:18 PM Hi Jean, nice to see you here... I too contributed to the piggybank fund, hopefully we'll get it to $600 worth of BTC for Zoe (and, honestly, I'm hoping this aspect of the story will get some media play on your behalf, i.e. "Generous Bitcoin Community Replaces Girl's Money Stolen By Government Thugs" would probably be worth much more than just the $ for your daughter... newcomers to this part of the story please see this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985596.0;all and kick in a couple bits if you can afford it!)
Anyway just a comment: seems to me that the seed of their argument's destruction is right there in their own wording, i.e. it says "FEW" legitimate uses. FEW does not mean NONE. IF there is even only ONE SINGLE LONE SOLITARY "LEGITIMATE" possible USE for bitcoins, then they ought to have ZERO -NO- NONE -ZIP- rights to seize them at all. Period. Full-Stop. End-of-Story. Sure, IF the wording said "no legit uses" well okay then, maybe they have something to argue. But it says FEW... right? THEIR WORD? So? They're admitting right there - by NOT saying "NONE" - that there are SOME!!! You therefore shouldn't even NEED to make a list to enumerate them: all your lawyers really ought to need to do is get 'em to admit, in court, that "few" does not mean NONE. Of course IANAL, but seems like a reasonable point to me. If I was on the jury and it was presented to me in this way, personally I'd agree with this argument 100% no question. KEVLARR Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: elvizzzzzzz on March 30, 2015, 06:41:35 PM Hopefully, Burt has full records of the bitcoin that he held, and all the cash that was in the house,
prior to the seizure. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-30/federal-agents-investigating-bitcoin-money-laundering-stole-over-1-million-bitcoin "Bridges allegedly diverted to his personal account over $800,000 in digital currency that he gained control of during the Silk Road investigation. The complaint alleges that Bridges placed the assets into an account at Mt. Gox, the now-defunct digital currency exchange in Japan. He then allegedly wired funds into one of his personal investment accounts in the United States mere days before he sought a $2.1 million seizure warrant for Mt. Gox’s accounts." It might be worth following up some of the earlier transactions with government agents. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: sed on March 31, 2015, 03:07:00 AM While I don't have anything to add to your list at the moment, I just wanna say thanks for this thread. I'm posting here so that I can see the bumps and follow it. Cheers!
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Ron~Popeil on March 31, 2015, 04:03:32 AM Hopefully, Burt has full records of the bitcoin that he held, and all the cash that was in the house, prior to the seizure. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-30/federal-agents-investigating-bitcoin-money-laundering-stole-over-1-million-bitcoin "Bridges allegedly diverted to his personal account over $800,000 in digital currency that he gained control of during the Silk Road investigation. The complaint alleges that Bridges placed the assets into an account at Mt. Gox, the now-defunct digital currency exchange in Japan. He then allegedly wired funds into one of his personal investment accounts in the United States mere days before he sought a $2.1 million seizure warrant for Mt. Gox’s accounts." It might be worth following up some of the earlier transactions with government agents. I kind of thought about that when I saw the story as well. Trust in the government is at all time lows for a reason. If they think making an example of a few high profile people will stop us they are dead wrong. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Cryptowatch.com on March 31, 2015, 07:57:27 AM Not sure if it is listed but website hosting (shared hosting and vps) is big with bitcoin. The number one reason I think it is big, is because it is so easy to make the payments.
Also, it's important to have in mind that the US is very concerned with upholding the petrodollar. One option for those not wanting to be a part of this is to leave the US completely. Of course that will not help anyone that is already hit, but for others, the time to leave might be now. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: elvizzzzzzz on March 31, 2015, 09:17:31 AM Did I mention that bitcoin is the perfect way to make anonymous donations to worthy causes.
* No middleman * Limited opportunities for fraud * Low overheads For example - restoring money stolen from little girls by governments ... Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: DannyHamilton on March 31, 2015, 11:49:43 AM Here are a few of the larger and more well known establishments that all accept bitcoins as payment:
Overstock.com NewEgg.com TigerDirect.com Dell.com Expedia.com Chicago Sun-Times Several Chicago area Pizza Restaurants (Rosati’s, Papa Saverio’s, Tomato’s, Taylor Street, etc) Dish Satellite TV The Sacramento Kings The San Jose Earthquakes “The D” Hotel in Las Vegas “Golden Gate” Hotel in Las Vegas Microsoft Gaming Gyft Big Fish Games The United Way 1800Flowers.com Braintree (A PayPal Company) Reeds Jewelers Take a look at coin map.org to find over 2,000 "brick & mortar” locations in North America that all accept bitcoins as payment for products or services. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Cryptowatch.com on March 31, 2015, 11:54:07 AM We could simply end the discussion with this logic.
Ask anybody that oppose bitcoin and claim it can only be used for illegal stuff the following question: "Fiat cash, is it only used for illegal purposes?" When they answer no, then respond: "Bitcoin is the equivalent of cash, only in an online form, do you still think it is only used for illegal means?" The truth is that as a technology, the blockchain and bitcoin is neutral. The fact that some use it for illegal purposes does not make it evil. By using that argument, by extension you should also ban cellphones, highways and the internet itself. If it was not for roads, crime would effectively be stopped, right? No drug smugglers from mexico, no rapists, no nothing! Also keep in mind that bitcoin will be huge for remittance, and already is being used for this. I think trying to convince somebody that bitcoin is not a bad technology speaks more about the lack of intelligence of the person opposing it for those reasons than anything else. Now, for any govt. department, there's always the official stance, and we must also realize that even if bitcoin is neutral, there will be vested interests that wil claim it is not, but surely, it could be worth presenting evidence to the contrary, if it will be listened to is another matter entirely. You could also make a case for all the VC money that goes into bitcoin. This is done by legitimate investors, in legitimate companies. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: canth on March 31, 2015, 02:14:55 PM The mere fact that the US federal government has sold Bitcoin to the public should be enough of an example to any government official - if investing in BTC was illegal then why would the US Marshals not confiscate BTC and destroy them?
http://www.coindesk.com/us-marshals-auction-50000-bitcoins-march/ (http://www.coindesk.com/us-marshals-auction-50000-bitcoins-march/) Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: JeanW on April 02, 2015, 07:35:46 PM sorry to hear all this Jean. I contributed to the piggy bank fund. /quote] Thank you for helping our daughter. She truly has been traumatized by this. Cheers, Jean Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: JeanW on April 02, 2015, 07:41:50 PM Hi Jean, nice to see you here... I too contributed to the piggybank fund, hopefully we'll get it to $600 worth of BTC for Zoe Thanks for contributing to our daughter's fund. She was hoping to use the money for rock climbing camp this summer. Thanks, Jean Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: JeanW on April 02, 2015, 07:49:02 PM I appreciate all of you taking the time to help me out.
Whenever I post on Bitcointalk.org, the federal authorities that are spying on the Bitcoin world report back to AUSA Korver and my husband's attorney gets an earful, so I won't be posting for the time being. Thanks, Jean Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Kprawn on April 02, 2015, 07:53:20 PM I am so glad, I do not live in the USA.
They talk about the land of the free.... but the country are like a huge police state. How is it legal for their government to sell Bitcoins, but the citizens are arrested, when they do the same thing? Yes, they should be regulated and they should have permission, but arresting them like criminals for buying and selling Bitcoins are very extreme. A year or two from now, when mass adoption around the world takes place, we will look back at this and laugh at this scenario. Burt will be filthy rich, when he takes this to court and sue their ass. Good luck and be strong.... One day, this will be all over. >:( >:( >:( Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: QuestionAuthority on April 02, 2015, 08:23:02 PM I'm really sorry that this happened to you and your family. You have my deepest sympathy. I'm not sure there is anything you could say to or show a government official to change the situation. There are many legitimate uses for Bitcoin as you can see from all of the great examples given but ever since the Liberty Reserve takedown the U.S. Government seems to have the single minded goal of ending the private use of Bitcoin. I appreciate that you want to do as much for yourself and your family as possible but you need to get a very, very good criminal attorney as soon as possible to do this stuff for you. I won't even trade Bitcoin at licensed exchanges like Coinbase anymore because of the way the government is over reacting.
Richard Weber, head of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service criminal investigation unit, said about cryptocurrency, "If Al Capone were alive today, this is how he would be hiding his money". Preet Bharara, a US prosecutor that was responsible for putting Charlie Schrem in jail, believes Bitcoin has been linked to crimes including credit card fraud, identity theft, investment fraud, computer hacking, child pornography and narcotics trafficking. He's making it his goal to stop Bitcoin trading. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: gentlemand on April 02, 2015, 09:22:45 PM I am so glad, I do not live in the USA. You don't realise how foreign it is until you go there and spend some serious time. I loved wandering around. I loved coming back to knackered old commie Europe too. There could've been a case for overt dodginess in 2010. Now anyone trying to paint it as evil incarnate looks like a fool after two seconds of googling. Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Gleb Gamow on April 03, 2015, 12:55:29 AM With this bump, I want to thank those who've heeded Jean's request(s) via posting in this thread.
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: OpenOcean on April 03, 2015, 05:27:03 AM Selling aircraft carriers for example. [Dark Gov't]
Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: JeanW on July 15, 2015, 04:02:46 AM On July 13, 2015, the federal case against Burt was dismissed at the request of the Department of Justice. Unfortunately the debt incurred to fight the spurious charge and the damage done to Burt's reputation remains. Thank you to those who have supported our family during this difficult time.
-- Jean www.jmwagner.com and www.burtw.com Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: BurtW on December 30, 2015, 01:05:25 PM "Equitable Sharing" program ended. Very good news:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1004863.msg13399046#msg13399046 Title: Re: Legitimate Uses of Bitcoins and the Dark Government Post by: Jet Cash on December 30, 2015, 02:04:14 PM Sounds like a trumped up charge for the local police to grab some money. Doesn't the US realise that actions like this just push the industry into more favourable countries. They are losing so much influence in the world, and they are going the right way to lose any control or influence in banking.
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