Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Project Development => Topic started by: BCExchange on April 21, 2015, 02:15:33 PM



Title: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: BCExchange on April 21, 2015, 02:15:33 PM
http://i.imgur.com/c90Kz2b.png (https://bcexchange.org)

BCExchange.org (https://bcexchange.org)

Design Document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf)  ::  Block Explorer (https://bcblockexplorer.com)  ::  Twitter (https://twitter.com/BC_Exchange)  ::  Forum (https://discuss.nubits.com/c/b-c-exchange)

http://i.imgur.com/fqoKDev.png (https://bcexchange.org)

Version 4.0.1 (Mandatory Upgrade)

Note that trading is disabled until the full B&C Exchange client is released

*****

B&C Exchange, short for ​Blocks & Chains Decentralized Exchange, aims to be the Reddit of cryptoasset exchanges – simple, reputation-based, and easily accessible to everyone regardless of geographic location.

It will be developed by the same established team that has directed Peercoin and NuBits development, a group that includes well-known cryptocurrency experts such as Jordan Lee, sigmike and eramospunk. The experienced team of over ten contributors has successfully led three prior projects (Peercoin, NuBits, NuShares) into the top twenty-five assets by market cap on coinmarketcap.com (http://coinmarketcap.com).

*****
The Basics:

B&C Exchange will be an open-source decentralized exchange that completes cryptocurrency trades between users by utilizing multisig signers that compete for blockchain rewards based on their effectiveness and honesty. Trades will occur using real cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and NuBits, as opposed to artificial proxy cryptoassets like those found in Nxt or BitShares.

A web based interface that will be familiar to users of centralized cryptoasset exchanges will be offered. Unlike centralized exchange websites, exchange operators will have zero access to funds and zero responsibility for customer account information. If an exchange website disappears suddenly, a user can simply go to another site that uses the same open source exchange software, or use another application that supports B&C Exchange and continue using the same account without interruption. This is because all account information will be stored on the blockchain, as the attached design document explains.

Equity ownership in B&C Exchange will be held by users who own “BlockShares (BKS)”. Users will pay transaction fees on the exchange with “BlockCredits (BKC)”. You will not need to own BlockShares to use BlockCredits, and vice versa. Profits from the sale of BlockCredits will be returned to BlockShares holders through a Bitcoin dividend mechanism in the protocol.

B&C Exchange will be fully controlled by everyone who owns ​BlockShares. For example, BlockShares holders can set the transaction fee cost (in BlockCredits) of using B&C Exchange, the number of multi-sig signers required to successfully conduct a trade (such as 7 out of 11 or 8 out of 15), and much more. It is expected that if B&C Exchange is successful, many BlockCredits will be purchased to transact on the exchange, and thus many Bitcoin dividends would be returned to BlockShares holders as a reward for operating a safe and convenient exchange.

In contrast to centralized exchanges, B&C Exchange will have:

- Significantly less counterparty and theft risk because of the multi-sig capabilities of its design.

- Far fewer operating expenses due to the absence of costs like employee salaries, supplies, and rent.

- Lower trading fees for users if BlockShares holders choose to vote for competitive low transaction fees.

- The ability to distribute Bitcoin dividends to all BlockShares holders from profits earned, using an existing dividend protocol mechanism present in the code of NuBits and NuShares.

B&C Exchange will also use NuBits to solve a major problem faced by decentralized exchanges – the inability to use stable fiat money. NuBits have closely held a 1.00 USD peg since September of 2014 and will be offered on B&C Exchange trading pairs as a synthetic substitute for US dollars. Because NuBits is a fork of Bitcoin and Peercoin, using NuBits will be a familiar experience for Bitcoin users. Substantial liquidity will be brought to the exchange through NuBit liquidity operations that have already been established.

More detailed use cases are provided in the attached design document above.

*****
​Funding:

The sale of undistributed BlockShares held in our possession has ended. The final total funds raised are $320,764.

The total number of BlockShares on the blockchain and in circulation is 184,765.96 as of the end of fundraising on August 31, 2015. This amount can only be changed by the 0.01 BKS minting block reward, the variable reputed signer block reward we will soon add, and BKS grants approved directly by shareholders. We do not have the ability to create any additional BKS without shareholder consensus in the protocol.

We expect the funds received will provide funding for the core implementation as well as a number of extra features or even products. While the extra features implemented should probably be decided by shareholders when the core implementation is closer to being complete, implementation of CHECKTIMELOCKVERIFY in Nu and B&C as well a utilization of it in B&C for any chains that support it, escrow capabilities and an Android app that combines a multi coin wallet with full support for B&C Exchange are likely features/products the extra funds will be dedicated to.

*****

Summary:

We expect there will be many questions about the technical details, the proposed funding model, and our team’s prior experience. We will do our best to answer any question asked to the best of our abilities. Lead architect Jordan Lee will also be active in this thread to answer questions as they arise.

We believe the design of B&C Exchange will allow users to safely control - and earn dividends from - their own cryptoasset trades. It is the beginning of a future without centralized exchanges.



Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BCExchange on April 21, 2015, 02:21:34 PM
Additional Information

Definitions:

B&C Exchange will be the trading platform where cryptocurrency trades are conducted. It is the primary trade name of the decentralized exchange.
 
BlockShares (BKS) are crypto-based equity in the B&C Exchange project. Owning BlockShares allows a user to receive blockchain-distributed dividends (paid in Bitcoin), from sales of BlockCredits. If you would like to see an example of a successful dividend distribution, you can see proof of a blockchain dividend paid to shareholders on the Nu network. (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/period-001a-dividend-distributed/688) It is expected that owning BlockShares will also allow a user to decide through blockchain voting many different operational functions of B&C Exchange, including the amount of BlockCredit transaction fees charged per trade.
 
BlockCredits (BKC) are the transactional tokens used on B&C Exchange to pay for trades. It is expected they will be sold for 1.00 USD per BKC by elected custodians. Similar to long-distance phone credits or postage stamps, no promises of future value will exist for BlockCredits. Paying for a BlockCredit simply entitles a user to conduct a certain amount of transactions on the B&C Exchange while it is operational. The amount of transactions that 1.00 BKC can complete depends on the amount of transaction fees required by the network as determined by BlockShares holders.
 
Broad Disclaimer:

NuShare ownership (https://nubits.com/nushares/introduction) grants the holder the ability to make financial decisions for the Nu network. By extension, BlockShare ownership grants the holder the ability to make decisions for the B&C Exchange network. This means that our fundraising was not a public IPO for a security; rather, it was an additional equity funding round for membership within a global distributed autonomous organization (DAO). To date, NuShares have provided DAO equity to users who act like managers to collectively make blockchain-based financial decisions about the Nu network through functions like custodial grants, parking rate votes, and motions. B&C Exchange will be a similar DAO with no national affiliation and no corporate structure or governance, instead relying on collaborative decision making through blockchain consensus. All BlockShareholders act as managers of their network, with no one shareholder having the ability to make a unilateral decision.
 
No price guarantees will ever be made about the future value of BlockShares and it would be unethical for us to do so. Interested parties only purchased BlockShares if they were fully aware of the risks of developing a new technology like B&C Exchange - up to and including a failure to create a working platform - and if they were comfortable with the existing online reputations and credibility established by B&C Exchange developers on past projects like Peercoin, NuBits, and NuShares.
 
While B&C Exchange is not affiliated with any one country, our view on global DAOs like B&C Exchange is supported by a quote from this article: (http://www.coindesk.com/token-security-research-analyzes-blockchain-us-law/)
 
Quote
>Another use case that the authors view as less problematic through the lens of US law is the use of tokens to create distributed collaborative (autonomous) organisations (DAOs).
>In this instance, tokens are used to denote membership in an organisation, with the user retaining the expectation that he or she may benefit financial(ly) from the ownership.
>The report suggests that, in this case, token owners may have some control over fund utilization, “making them effectively managers and/or partners in the success of the entity”, a factor that makes them less likely to be viewed as securities.
>“Depending on the nature of the organization and the actual control held by people who have committed capital, ‘shares’ organizations which are structured on the blockchain are likely not to be considered as securities,” the paper suggests.

*****

Branding

http://i.imgur.com/vEV1Y6c.png

We chose to create a brand that expresses a simple boldness while still signalling innovation and creativity. These logos are intentionally much less complex than many standard cryptocurrency logos. This will ensure that they look sharp and clear even at small resolutions.

B&C Exchange is short for “Blocks and Chains Decentralized Exchange” and we’ve captured that name in the logo. There are several metaphorical interpretations possible for the B&C Exchange logo, including:

- A “block” created by the negative space in the middle, surrounded by two different colored “chains”
- A price chart axis with a green (or navy) “up” arrow exploding to the right
- A decentralized network that is connected by different colored peers around the outside, with no centralized control in the center of the logo

The deep navy, vibrant green, and neutral white colors selected are designed to communicate two major categories of brand associations. The first category includes keywords such as professional, ethical, reputable, credible, and efficient.  The second category includes keywords like innovative, empowering, and futuristic.

Finally, we used the basic shape of the B&C Exchange brand to create two tokens:

BlockShares

http://i.imgur.com/rAu5IN5.png

BlockCredits

http://i.imgur.com/NVfLvto.png

We have hosted the full package of logos on BCExchange.org. Anyone is free to use these logos in whatever way they wish as long as no suggestion is made that B&C Exchange developers endorse the project, product, or service. The full package includes six different color variations on the primary logo as well as multiple icons. Download: https://github.com/BC-Exchange/bcexchange.org/blob/gh-pages/assets/img/B-C-Logos.zip?raw=true

We have also included a branding guide that shows the basic building blocks of our brand. Here is a preview:

http://i.imgur.com/Qbr85pn.png


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 02:26:31 PM
I'm looking forward to addressing concerns and questions forum participants will have.

I'm also available at jlee@vistomail.com and the Bitmessage address in my signature.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 03:58:37 PM
This question was asked here:

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/3 (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/3)

Quote
What are the technical limitations of this decentralized exchange model? How fast is it? If I understand correctly, each trade depends on several signatures of a blockshare owner. So is the 1 minute blocktime (i guess) the absolute lower bound for a trade to execute?

How many confirmations an order must have is a network wide variable configurable through shareholder voting. 3 confirmations (typically less than three minutes) will be a likely shareholder choice.

Trades do depend on reputed signers signing multisig transfers to settle. This will take seconds. Reputed signers are not necessarily shareholders, although they will likely place a security deposit of BlockShares.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BonTonPlease on April 21, 2015, 04:06:30 PM
I really like the project outlined above and am willing to invest some money (although already holding Nushares). I already raised the question on discuss.nubits.com regarding sigmike's role for other projects. I like the work you guys perform but I am not willing to fund projects if the knowledge and experience you guys gain during building such an exchange will be passed along to the next project outside of the Nu network. If the Nu network pays for the development, they must have the exclusive ownership of the achievements of such a project.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: noerc on April 21, 2015, 05:04:59 PM
BlockCredits (BKC) are the transactional tokens used on B&C Exchange to pay for trades.

So if I want to trade on the exchange, I first need to buy BKC which I then can *consume* in my trades, correct?

Now the other side: Someone applies for a custodianship on the exchange. BKS shareholder approve the proposal and grant the custodian 1000 BKC. The custodian now sells those BKC (in a centralized way?) externally to the exchange and passes the revenues back to the shareholders in form of BTC. Correct?

Is there an incentive to act as a signer? Will they get compensated (through a part of the tx fee in BKC) for their availability and reputation?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 05:05:11 PM
I really like the project outlined above and am willing to invest some money (although already holding Nushares). I already raised the question on discuss.nubits.com regarding sigmike's role for other projects. I like the work you guys perform but I am not willing to fund projects if the knowledge and experience you guys gain during building such an exchange will be passed along to the next project outside of the Nu network. If the Nu network pays for the development, they must have the exclusive ownership of the achievements of such a project.

While it is expected that the B&C Exchange will be open source (unless NuShare holders indicate they have other preferences), let's consider what would happen if someone created a clone of B&C Exchange.

Liquidity is of paramount importance for an exchange. Liquidity tends to have feedback loops associated with it. High liquidity attracts more market participants due to superior pricing, creating even more liquidity. Low liquidity simply encourages market participants to go elsewhere.

The original B&C Exchange will have a remarkable liquidity advantage because Nu, which is in the business of providing liquidity to stable cryptocurrency, will bring liquidity to it through its already established liquidity operations. Nu will do so because of the high degree of overlap in shareholder ownership and because B&C Exchange will be the cheapest place to provide NuBit liquidity due to its dramatically reduced risk of exchange default and theft. Nu is unlikely to provide any liquidity at all to clones of B&C Exchange because it will be against the interest of BlockShare holders to do so, and most BlockShare holders will also be NuShare holders.

If your concern about contributors such as sigmike not doing work for other projects is shared by other shareholders, then it is possible for shareholders to negotiate non-compete agreements with contributors. sigmike already has a non-compete agreement that covers stable value cryptocurrencies, so it is possible to negotiate expanding this to trading platforms. However, limiting contributor opportunities will typically require some compensation for that.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 05:24:34 PM
So if I want to trade on the exchange, I first need to buy BKC which I then can *consume* in my trades, correct?

That's right. All network messages require a fee to give robust protection against denial of service attacks. We expect to make acquiring your first BlockCredits painless by integrating support for Shapeshift or similar exchange service seamlessly into our user interface. So, the user will request a BlockCredit and will be asked to send a tiny amount of Bitcoin (or other cryptoasset) to a particular address. When they do, they immediately receive the BlockCredit they need to use the network.

While Shapeshift has advantages for some use cases such as the one just mentioned, B&C Exchange is likely to offer better pricing for the most popular trading pairs, permits limit orders (placing an order an that won't fill now but may fill later if the market price changes) and is expected to permit much larger trades (after a beta period).

Now the other side: Someone applies for a custodianship on the exchange. BKS shareholder approve the proposal and grant the custodian 1000 BKC. The custodian now sells those BKC (in a centralized way?) externally to the exchange and passes the revenues back to the shareholders in form of BTC. Correct?

That's right. It is expected that BlockCredits will be available for sale on B&C Exchange, traditional centralized cryptoasset exchanges and instant exchange services such as Shapeshift.

Is there an incentive to act as a signer? Will they get compensated (through a part of the tx fee in BKC) for their availability and reputation?

Absolutely! In addition to the block reward given to minters, there is a second block reward that will be given to reputed signers in proportion to their reputation. The size of the reputed signer block reward is configurable through shareholder voting, so it will be whatever is required to get quality signers and no more. While shareholders may be tempted to upvote their own reputation to receive this reward, other shareholders will thwart this by downvoting.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: Bisha on April 21, 2015, 05:28:22 PM
If I own nushares and dont participate on the auction, will I still get blockshares?

What's the difference/advantage between already owning nushares or bidding them? Trying to get cheaper blockshares (assuming they're less than 0.033 - same price as nushares like you mentioned)?

is the supply of blockshares fixed or can it increase? Will this be decided through voting?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 05:44:50 PM
If I own nushares and dont participate on the auction, will I still get blockshares?

Yes. Your private keys will work on both networks. The B&C client will permit you to convert your NuShare wallet to a BlockShare wallet.

What's the difference/advantage between already owning nushares or bidding them? Trying to get cheaper blockshares (assuming they're less than 0.033 - same price as nushares like you mentioned)?

All NuShares are fungible so there won't be a difference once you own them. However, when placing a bid you get to pick whatever price you like as long as it is at least 0.002 USD. Of course, the higher your bid is the more likely is it is to be filled.

You can't purchase BlockShares solely until the blockchain is created at the conclusion of development. You can purchase NuShares which will yield an equivalent quantity of BlockShares once development is complete.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: advanced on April 21, 2015, 05:45:04 PM
The crypto-communities suffered too much in losses due to stolen funds, and it is good to see project like this emerging.  Looking forward to learn more.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BonTonPlease on April 21, 2015, 06:24:23 PM
1) If I hold 1 million Blockshares out of the 900 million, will I receive 1/900th of the transaction fees as a bitcoin dividend?

2) Given your funding request will be successful, how long will it take to realize the project?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 06:58:33 PM
1) If I hold 1 million Blockshares out of the 900 million, will I receive 1/900th of the transaction fees as a bitcoin dividend?

If you hold 1/900th of all BlockShares, you will receive 1/900th of all Bitcoin dividends (this will be very slightly skewed by the fact that some of the dividend will be used to pay Bitcoin transaction fees to transfer the dividends and nothing will be sent to BlockShare owners that would receive less than the Bitcoin transaction fee).

Dividends are not tied directly to transaction fees. Rather, they are tied to the number of BlockCredits sold (which can only be used to pay for transaction fees).

2) Given your funding request will be successful, how long will it take to realize the project?

This is an important question, and one I would like to know the answer to as well. Development of an unprecedented software solution such as B&C Exchange is characterized by the unfolding of unexpected issues which must be solved.

I have delivered an unprecedented blockchain solution in the past in the form of the Nu network, which pioneered stable cryptocurrency and the ability of shareholders to constantly adjust the protocol by voting. The network worked just as promised and was delivered in 8 months at a cost of around 250,000 USD. While I made no promises about the time it would take to deliver Nu, I will report that I privately thought it would take 6 months and 500,000 USD. So, I was 50% under budget and 33% over my private time estimate.

I can say that I believe B&C Exchange is modestly or slightly simpler than creating the Peershare template and Nu. I am absolutely committed to doing everything in my power to delivering it as quickly as possible. However, investors should be aware that I am unable to absolutely guarantee its delivery at all, and I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BonTonPlease on April 21, 2015, 07:20:02 PM


I can say that I believe B&C Exchange is modestly or slightly simpler than creating the Peershare template and Nu. I am absolutely committed to doing everything in my power to delivering it as quickly as possible. However, investors should be aware that I am unable to absolutely guarantee its delivery at all, and I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost.

What happens if it turns out that you can't deliver the product? Will the funds be lost?

How transparent will the whole process be about the usage of funds?
 
As you know you are enjoying a level of anonymity that would never ever be possible in another economic environment, especially if it comes down to raising a good amount of money. When I read a sentence like "I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost" I know that there is a risk for a request for follow-up financing, may it be justified or not. Would you be willing to agree to a % threshold relative to the initial amount raised that you definitely will not exceed and still deliver the product if technically possible? Otherwise investors have pretty much no choice if asked for another nice amount of money or they will suffer a total loss whereas you have been compensated for your work.

Thanks for your responses so far!


Title: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: tonyk on April 21, 2015, 07:31:00 PM
Mr Lee:
1. how do they plan to prevent someone from flooding the system with (matched) orders and not following through with the actual coin transfers?

2. is  reputation based on votes by the coin holders the best one in your opinion?

3. What are your reasons to have a separate token for transaction fees. why not the native token in the system?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 07:50:33 PM
The following question was asked here:

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/18

Quote
Jordan, what are your thoughts for a potential "long con" attack of the B&C network, where a single entity controls multiple signers that are well-behaved until a critical trust is reached? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick.

While the decision of who to assign reputation to is up to individual shareholders, I suspect we will see established pseudonymous members of the cryptocurrency community, and the Nu community in particular, step up to become reputed signers. I doubt shareholders will assign reputation to actors that haven't performed complex and long term roles in the community. If that is true, then this attack is quite impractical.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 08:30:18 PM
The following questions were asked here:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/19

Quote from: cryptog
As an early shareholder of Nu and a business partner of Nu, I welcome such a proposal.
Decentralized crypto exchange is a natural step towards complete decentralization of the financial world.
I have yet to read the full proposal on bitcointalk and to evaluate to which extent it would contribute substantially to the strengthening of Nu but I have immediately 2 questions:

- To which extent such a proposal could constitute a second round of funding of Nu? In others, at that sage, more than 6 months later after the release of Nu, would such dilution increase the valuation of Nu (I hope so!) while at the same time giving already some returns to round 1 investors ( the investors that invested back in September/October 2014 in Nu)?

- To which extent such a proposal would help the development of Nu itself directly? Please see my earlier post entitle "[a question about the future of Nu development from the end of next month][1]".
I understand that the creation of cheap liquidity is key to Nu, which is what is intended with that proposal but for example, would the proceeds of that auction be used for paying the development of NuBot or the marketing activity of Nu, which could appear at first glance not linked directly to B&C Exchange. Would the official team behind B&C exchange be the same team behind [Nu Team][2] ?

- Would the new shareholders of those 100m NSRs be subject to the same background check that the early investors? We must be very careful about that. I would not want those 100m NSR be in the hands of speculators....

Thank you.

It is my expectation that Nu client 2.0 development of our shareholder approved protocol changes will be completed prior to the conclusion of the auction.

I'm confident the development of B&C Exchange will benefit Nu and NuShare holders more than any other additional development that has been discussed. Therefore, it is the proper priority for Nu development. The chance of B&C Exchange succeeding is tremendously enhanced by employing a proven team that is already working together successfully.

NuBot will be critical to the success of B&C Exchange, as it will be the method for establishing liquidity on it. The parametric order book feature that is the most important NuBot road map item is extremely important for providing liquidity on B&C Exchange to pairs other than BTC/NBT, such as LTC/NBT, Dogecoin/NBT, NSR/NBT, etc. Also, NuBot will need to be modified to work with B&C Exchange.

So, in summary, after the Nu 2.0 release, I believe the priorities of the core development team and the NuBot team should be B&C Exchange related development.

Of course I believe this NuShare dilution will increase the value of NuShares, as all dilutions should. However, the market will have to decide that and other factors such as the overall course of cryptoassets will weigh heavily on the NuShare price.

The second post in this thread addresses your last question.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: SpanishSoldier on April 21, 2015, 09:09:31 PM
Why are you cluttering this thread by copy-pasting from a certain link ?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 09:10:33 PM
1. how do they plan to prevent someone from flooding the system with (matched) orders and not following through with the actual coin transfers?

Once funds have been transferred under the distributed control of reputed multisig signers, orders must be validated by enough signers to transfer funds plus two backup signers to be regarded as valid by the protocol. The potential exploit of placing two orders simultaneously to consume the same funds is really just a double spend. This problem has been famously solved by Bitcoin, and we will use the exact same proven solution in B&C Exchange. Orders must have a certain number of confirmations (this number is dynamically configurable through shareholder voting) to ensure this type of double spend has not occurred.

2. is  reputation based on votes by the coin holders the best one in your opinion?

Yes. There are schemes I considered that reward signers for actual work or signings but these are all significantly more complicated and subject to various kinds of gaming. Simplicity is really compelling in a consensus protocol. It is expected some shareholders will be tempted to upvote their own address to receive a reward without performing any work. Reputed multisig signers will need to make public appeals to the community to explain why they should selected to sign. This means that any mystery addresses that are receiving upvotes should be downvoted by all other shareholders. A mystery address receiving its first malicious upvotes will not be trusted with signing because only top rated addresses can do that (the number of top rated signers permitted is also dynamically configured via shareholder voting), and it will take quite a bit of time to get to the top. While this is quite a bit to keep up with, it is expected that most shareholders will use a data feed to delegate their vote to someone who is watching closely that they choose to trust. Data feeds have already proven to work well in Nu. Shareholders have proven incredibly responsive in dealing with emerging conditions in the Nu network.

3. What are your reasons to have a separate token for transaction fees. why not the native token in the system?

Actually, using BlockShares was my initial choice in my first draft, so I can relate to that inclination. Tom Joad suggested using a separate token. The main advantage to this is stable value, so that the cost of transactions will be stable even as the BlockShare price experiences volatility. This is very easy to implement because within the code base BlockCredits equate to NuBits while BlockShares equate to NuShares. Almost all the needed code is already there.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 09:18:50 PM
Why are you cluttering this thread by copy-pasting from a certain link ?

There is a parallel discussion occurring on discuss.nubits.com and I feel it is beneficial to readers to keep the entire discussion in one place (here), rather than fragmenting the information about the project in multiple places. I wouldn't call it clutter  ;)


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 21, 2015, 09:45:36 PM
Joe asked on discuss.nubits.com:

Quote
I'm a little confused why the decentralized exchange can't be added on top of the NuShares blockchain.

Theoretically it could be. However, exchange and stable currency are two completely different business models. It would complicate the protocol a great deal to accommodate both business models and increase the risk of an unexpected malfunction in the protocol.

Probably the best reason to separate them has to do with scalability. Creating two blockchains and two networks reduces blockchain size considerably and reduces the number of transactions and messages that need to be processed in each one.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: Eugen3 on April 21, 2015, 11:26:57 PM
Do you imagine B&C will list the trading pairs with more trading volume or take a more open arms approach with alts seeking to be listed? / Who is your target market as far as customers go?

How do you think the trading experience will compare to that of a centralized exchange?  I have seen the 10 trades a second ceiling in the paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean actions will be completed in 1/10th of a second, does it?  What stops anyone from front running a trade or action before it is 'confirmed' on the blockchain?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: cryptog1 on April 22, 2015, 09:05:28 AM
Tks for the detailed info.

The second post in this thread addresses your last question.

You mean this in the second post :" and if they are comfortable with the existing online reputations and credibility established by B&C Exchange developers on past projects like Peercoin, NuBits, and NuShares. "

or

 this: " A valid bid will contain four elements: a quantity of NuShares, a price you pledge to pay per NuShare in USD, the asset type you will pay with (BTC, LTC, PPC or NBT), and finally your bitcointalk or discuss.nubits.com username (minimum one week old as of the pre-announcement date)." in the first post

?

In my opinion, satisfying this kind of criterion, such as being aware of the team or having a discuss username is not enough for separating speculators from genuinely interested individuals that want to become shareholders caring about the network.
I would like to see some sort of soft due diligence process, requesting a short description (with arguments and proofs) about why the applicant thinks he or she could contribute to Nu, as early shareholders back in Sept~Nov 2014 underwent at the first round of investment of Nu.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: mhps on April 22, 2015, 09:47:18 AM
Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BonTonPlease on April 22, 2015, 09:55:47 AM
@mhps

1) If I hold 1 million Blockshares out of the 900 million, will I receive 1/900th of the transaction fees as a bitcoin dividend?

If you hold 1/900th of all BlockShares, you will receive 1/900th of all Bitcoin dividends (this will be very slightly skewed by the fact that some of the dividend will be used to pay Bitcoin transaction fees to transfer the dividends and nothing will be sent to BlockShare owners that would receive less than the Bitcoin transaction fee).

Dividends are not tied directly to transaction fees. Rather, they are tied to the number of BlockCredits sold (which can only be used to pay for transaction fees).

2) Given your funding request will be successful, how long will it take to realize the project?

This is an important question, and one I would like to know the answer to as well. Development of an unprecedented software solution such as B&C Exchange is characterized by the unfolding of unexpected issues which must be solved.

I have delivered an unprecedented blockchain solution in the past in the form of the Nu network, which pioneered stable cryptocurrency and the ability of shareholders to constantly adjust the protocol by voting. The network worked just as promised and was delivered in 8 months at a cost of around 250,000 USD. While I made no promises about the time it would take to deliver Nu, I will report that I privately thought it would take 6 months and 500,000 USD. So, I was 50% under budget and 33% over my private time estimate.

I can say that I believe B&C Exchange is modestly or slightly simpler than creating the Peershare template and Nu. I am absolutely committed to doing everything in my power to delivering it as quickly as possible. However, investors should be aware that I am unable to absolutely guarantee its delivery at all, and I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: mhps on April 22, 2015, 10:24:10 AM
@mhps

1) If I hold 1 million Blockshares out of the 900 million, will I receive 1/900th of the transaction fees as a bitcoin dividend?

If you hold 1/900th of all BlockShares, you will receive 1/900th of all Bitcoin dividends (this will be very slightly skewed by the fact that some of the dividend will be used to pay Bitcoin transaction fees to transfer the dividends and nothing will be sent to BlockShare owners that would receive less than the Bitcoin transaction fee).

Dividends are not tied directly to transaction fees. Rather, they are tied to the number of BlockCredits sold (which can only be used to pay for transaction fees).
@BonTonPlease thanks but it doesn't answer the qustion. I want to see numbers backed by assumptions and reasoning so not only I can try to get a ball park idea re revenue and ROI, but also see what intermediary parameters of the exchange (e.g. how many BlockCredits consumed for 1 BTC traded) the team may  have in mind.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BCExchange on April 22, 2015, 05:56:14 PM

What happens if it turns out that you can't deliver the product? Will the funds be lost?

How transparent will the whole process be about the usage of funds?
 
As you know you are enjoying a level of anonymity that would never ever be possible in another economic environment, especially if it comes down to raising a good amount of money. When I read a sentence like "I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost" I know that there is a risk for a request for follow-up financing, may it be justified or not. Would you be willing to agree to a % threshold relative to the initial amount raised that you definitely will not exceed and still deliver the product if technically possible? Otherwise investors have pretty much no choice if asked for another nice amount of money or they will suffer a total loss whereas you have been compensated for your work.

Thanks for your responses so far!

From Jordan Lee on https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/77

Quote
Of course there is a chance that funds will be exhausted and the project will not be finished. If that occurs, investors will have to decide whether to provide additional funding or drop the project. I don't think either of those outcomes are likely, however. My design document is very complete and no one has even raised a concern or flaw in the design (yet) that wasn't already considered and addressed. Soon someone will, but we will just adapt the design. I understand you would like me to guarantee it will be delivered on time and on budget, but that just isn't possible. Anyone who makes such a promise for a project of this kind is dishonest.

Developing a reliable decentralized exchange is a groundbreaking technical feat. So there is risk. However, I regard Nu as a comparable groundbreaking technical accomplishment which was completed 50% under budget in USD terms and delivered in a reasonable amount of time. I am the ideal architect to deliver this novel solution and the Nu development team is best qualified to implement it given our past accomplishments.

From Jordan Lee on https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/78

Quote
We are happy to release figures on what has been spent by department:

1. Core development and marketing
2. NuBot development

We are also happy to regularly report remaining funds (I have already been doing this quite regularly).

I'm sure you can understand that our individual contributors would be uncomfortable with us publicly releasing details about their rates and individual payments, as is the case with any organization.



Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BCExchange on April 22, 2015, 06:27:40 PM
Do you imagine B&C will list the trading pairs with more trading volume or take a more open arms approach with alts seeking to be listed?

We would tentatively expect that Bitcoin, NuBits, BlockShares, and BlockCredits are available on the first iteration of the decentralized exchange.

Your question is an excellent opportunity to educate any new readers on the "Motion" functionality we refer to in the Nu protocol. A brief description and tutorial video is here: https://nubits.com/nushares/voting-mechanics#how-does-a-motion-vote-work

A motion allows NuShare holders (and once the network is operational, BlockShares holders) to make their feelings known on any topic. It is expected that developers strictly adhere to the terms of a motion that has been successfully passed by shareholders.

An example motion that you could raise as soon as you have BlockShares would be: "B&C Exchange should expand its capabilities to include Litecoin, Dogecoin, and Peercoin trading pairs." Or, another example motion could be "B&C Exchange should never offer PayCoin trading pairs." Motions are one of Nu's unique mechanisms that have served as a powerful tool for determining community opinions through blockchain consensus.

Who is your target market as far as customers go?

Anyone who is interested in trading cryptocurrencies with lower trading fees and with less risk of centralized theft will be the users we target. We think that users are enthusiastic about the idea of decentralized exchanges in general; the Bitcoin community is just waiting for a contender to offer the right mix of technical capabilities, user experience, and ownership incentives. We believe our design accomplishes these goals.

How do you think the trading experience will compare to that of a centralized exchange?  I have seen the 10 trades a second ceiling in the paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean actions will be completed in 1/10th of a second, does it?  What stops anyone from front running a trade or action before it is 'confirmed' on the blockchain?

The trading experience as compared to a centralized exchange is a very broad topic. It is almost certain that B&C Exchange will be superior in some regards (such as safety and cost), and weaker in others (such as trading speed, where the confirmations required to execute an order will be shareholder configurable, but 3 is a likely setting, so three minutes to execute orders is likely). There will always be trade-offs between centralized and decentralized services. Our goal is to provide a familiar centralized website user experience, without the risk of that website controlling user funds. From the design document:

Quote
Unlike centralized exchange websites, exchange operators will have zero access to funds and zero responsibility for customer account information. If an exchange website disappears suddenly, a user can simply go to another site that uses the same open source exchange software, or use another application that supports B&C Exchange and continue using the same account without interruption. This is because all account information is stored on the blockchain.

The design document also details current limitations of decentralized exchanges and provides expected future development solutions that can resolve many of those concerns:

Quote
Some observers may have concerns about the scalability of the solution. The initial design can scale to handle approximately 10 orders per second, along with all the other transactions needed to support orders. There are many changes that can be made in the future to improve scalability. They require additional development, so it doesn't make sense economically to implement them at this time.  As network latency reduces over time due to hardware improvements block intervals can be collapsed, validation messages can be merely broadcast but not placed on the blockchain, a derivative of Cryptonite's mini-blockchain can be employed, delegates can be employed, etc. The solution proposed here can be evolved to scale far beyond 10 orders per second.

In regards to front-running, we will research best practices on how orders should be ordered and processed within blocks to ensure fairness for all market participants. There are many different possible solutions that have been previously examined by groups like BitShares (http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/29/How-BitShares-Prevents-Front-Running/) that will help inform our design as well.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: fatbitcoinfan on April 22, 2015, 06:39:00 PM
This is quite exciting after Mercury because it's a completely different approach.

One way or another, it looks like decentralized exchanges are about to become a reality.

A few questions:

Quote
By protocol, they must choose the most reputed signers ... an incentive needs to be provided to use a more compact 3 out of 5 multisig rather than 10 out of 15 if it is demonstrated that the counterparty risk is similar.

If none of the currently most trusted signers have cheated, I think it's inevitable that they will, as incumbents, be likely to retain their positions as most trusted. So wouldn't you have the three most trusted people permanently capable of colluding and stealing all of the funds on the exchange secured by 3-of-5 multisigs?

Also, no offense intended, but wouldn't the most trusted signers be Jordan and the devs?

So aren't we, in effect, being asked to trust a few known people with our money?

Also, I would guess that the signers, being always online, could easily learn one another's ip addresses if they were so inclined. Suppose the scheme is 8-of-15 and an attacker has control of 4 pseudonymous signers. He would need to successfully ddos any 4 of the remaining 11 signers in order to block withdrawals and extort the depositors.

An attacker would try to ddos them all. Let the probability of successfully ddosing a signer be p.

Then the probability of knocking out 4 of 11 is:

Sum from i = 4 to 11:   B(11, i) * (p ** i) (1-p)**(11-i)

where B is the binomial coefficient.

With a 20% chance of a successful ddos, that's a 16% chance of successfully blocking withdrawals. At a 50% ddos success rate, the probability of crippling the exchange is 88%.

Actually, an attacker with no signers and a 50% ddos success rate has a 50% chance of succeeding at such an attack.

Quote
If shareholders felt a reputed signer engaged in misconduct, a motion could be passed to burn part or all of their security deposit.

Yikes! If the shareholders feel so inclined, can they pass a motion requiring all the depositors' funds to be distributed among themselves?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BCExchange on April 22, 2015, 06:45:40 PM
Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?

There are two issues with creating projections. First, even back-of-envelope calculations would create informal expectations on the part of bidders that may not ever be achieved. We are keen to avoid that, just as we did with the original distribution of NuShares. Bidders should generate their own forecasts and bid (or not bid) accordingly.

The second issue is that there are simply too many dynamic variables that are controlled by shareholders and not the developers. For example, a transaction fee of 1.00 BKC could be set by shareholders per trade, for which projections could be made based on reasonable assumptions of the market share that would be taken from centralized exchanges. However, shareholders could decide to raise it to 3.00 BKC next month if that rate would still be competitive, or drop it to 0.20 BKC next month if strong competitors emerged. There is a tremendous amount of variance in projected revenue. We also don't know yet what transaction fee rates shareholders will conclude is optimal.

We would strongly encourage everyone to generate their own predictions and share them with other NuShare holders to see if others believe those projections to be based on reasonable assumptions. It would be very easy for us to generate an optimistic prediction of how shareholders will vote, but it is unlikely to be very accurate.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BCExchange on April 22, 2015, 11:56:21 PM
Additional questions from discuss.nubits.com user "Creon", and replies from B&C Exchange Architect Jordan Lee.

Quote
Q1: The "Distribution to Bitcoin holders" section is missing any constraint on how long the BTC have to exist on this particular address, so the same BTC can be reused to get more BKS.

Sorry if this point wasn't included in the design doc (I thought it was). In any case, it has been discussed and finalized in my own mind that the Bitcoin blockchain would be examined as of a certain block height, resolving the concern raised here.

Quote
From the design doc:
>When a reputed signer posts such a message, he is promising to keep the addresses listed in a wallet connected to the blockchain client referenced, which can in turn be contacted by his B&C Exchange client at all times in the future, except if he transfers the keys to another reputed signer as described in the Signer Incentives section."

Q2: Why would he? Is there any incentive to transfer the keys to another signer? Is there a method in place which detects offline signers and automatically transfers the addresses to another signer?

It is expected that the security deposit reputed signers put up will not be released until the keys are verified to have been transferred.

Quote
Q3: How can new signers gain reputation if only the most reputed signers are selected? It will require the demand to rise above the expected value by the shareholders such that the reputed signers won't have a free address slot anymore, correct?

The consumption of a signer's public keys available as components of multisig deposit address does not occur until they are a top rated signer. They become top rated not by signing but rather by making a public appeal for upvoting. They have to make a convincing case that they should be trusted first.

Quote
Q4: Last but not least: Reputation voting and scoring
> The absolute value of the number beside the share addresses indicate how likely (relatively) each is for inclusion in the block

This is very much the frequency based voting also proposed here in Nu. Is it planned to extend the whole voting mechanism (motions/grants) to this frequency based model? Or is there a reason why Nu motions and grants use a much simpler and less effective voting structure?

The difference between voting in Nu for custodial grants and motions and voting for reputation in B&C is that it is presumed Nu shareholders can vote for all the grants and motions they want to support in every block. In contrast, it assumed that B&C shareholders will wish to upvote and downvote more addresses than can be practically referenced in each block. The mechanism for selecting reputation votes for inclusion is designed to use minimal blockchain space while still including the complete set of information over a series of minted blocks.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 23, 2015, 04:13:02 PM
If none of the currently most trusted signers have cheated, I think it's inevitable that they will, as incumbents, be likely to retain their positions as most trusted. So wouldn't you have the three most trusted people permanently capable of colluding and stealing all of the funds on the exchange secured by 3-of-5 multisigs?

Also, no offense intended, but wouldn't the most trusted signers be Jordan and the devs?

So aren't we, in effect, being asked to trust a few known people with our money?

I doubt the lower transaction fees for 3 of 5 multisigs will outweigh the security advantages of using 15 signers any time soon. So I wouldn't recommend 3 of 5 multisigs. It is possible we will see that right when the system first becomes operational, but I expect the network will scale up the number of signers quickly.

Shareholders will get to decide the identity and quantity of signers and can change this configuration at will (for new deposit addresses). If they fear the scenario you describe they will configure the network to protect against it.

Also, I would guess that the signers, being always online, could easily learn one another's ip addresses if they were so inclined. Suppose the scheme is 8-of-15 and an attacker has control of 4 pseudonymous signers. He would need to successfully ddos any 4 of the remaining 11 signers in order to block withdrawals and extort the depositors.

An attacker would try to ddos them all. Let the probability of successfully ddosing a signer be p.

Then the probability of knocking out 4 of 11 is:

Sum from i = 4 to 11:   B(11, i) * (p ** i) (1-p)**(11-i)

where B is the binomial coefficient.

With a 20% chance of a successful ddos, that's a 16% chance of successfully blocking withdrawals. At a 50% ddos success rate, the probability of crippling the exchange is 88%.

Actually, an attacker with no signers and a 50% ddos success rate has a 50% chance of succeeding at such an attack.

I suspect most reputed signers will operate within the Tor network, which is very easy to do. Even if they don't use any proxy, determining which node is theirs is a difficult task that only organizations like NSA could hope to have any success at (if they cared to devote resources to it). Therefore, the premise of your scenario, that reputed signer IP addresses will be known, is false.

Quote
If shareholders felt a reputed signer engaged in misconduct, a motion could be passed to burn part or all of their security deposit.

Yikes! If the shareholders feel so inclined, can they pass a motion requiring all the depositors' funds to be distributed among themselves?

Shareholders could do any number of things that would destroy their entire investment, but we can be sure they wouldn't be so foolish. When you consider that the market cap is likely to be equal to many years worth of revenue, it is unlikely that deposits will exceed market cap. Even if they did, I don't think it is credible to suggest that the majority of participants would engage in such blatant fraud.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: fatbitcoinfan on April 23, 2015, 06:43:41 PM
If they fear the scenario you describe they will configure the network to protect against it.

Thanks; that makes a lot of sense.

I suspect most reputed signers will operate within the Tor network, which is very easy to do. Even if they don't use any proxy, determining which node is theirs is a difficult task that only organizations like NSA could hope to have any success at (if they cared to devote resources to it). Therefore, the premise of your scenario, that reputed signer IP addresses will be known, is false.

You're right; Tor would solve the problem. If someone takes down the exit node you can just switch to another one.

I think more humble organizations than the NSA could discover a signer's static ip, though. Here's a half dozen ways to do it off the top of my head:

1. Go to the signer's house and apply a rubber hose to the signer until the ip address (or even the private key) is volunteered.
2. Various other methods of coercion / blackmail / deception, including court orders, dating the signer, pretending to be the cable guy or whatever.
3. Hire a hacker / private detective to get the information (or hack into his computer yourself).
4. Own the company who leases the signer's VPS. How many will run their nodes on Amazon? If they keep the identity of their VPS providers secret from each other, how will they ever know if they're using the same one?
5. Ask the signer what VPS services he's tried and which ones he thinks are good. Compare the ip address ranges these VPS services provide to the ip addresses of persistent nodes.
6. Connect to 100 nodes. When a message from the target signer arrives, measure the time at which each node publishes the message. Drop the slowest 50 and connect to 50 different random nodes. Repeat. The probability that you're connected to the target signer increases with each iteration.

If you have a powerful ddos ability, you might need only a 20% chance of guessing correctly, and even if you can only narrow it down to a group of nodes, it doesn't do you any harm to take out the whole group.


If the shareholders feel so inclined, can they pass a motion requiring all the depositors' funds to be distributed among themselves?

Shareholders could do any number of things that would destroy their entire investment, but we can be sure they wouldn't be so foolish. When you consider that the market cap is likely to be equal to many years worth of revenue, it is unlikely that deposits will exceed market cap.

Well yes and no. Market cap > Revenue only implies Market cap > Deposits if Revenue > Deposits.

But would, say, 8 years of revenue really always exceed the value of the total deposits?

Let's say the total amount deposited on average is D. Let V be the number of times per day that money is traded. I might be wrong, but I think most of the money on the exchanges doesn't trade every day. Most of it stays in balances or in orders that don't get executed, I think. So I think V is less than 1, probably about 0.1. I might be way off.

And let F be the fee that you charge. Let's say it's 0.5%. That might be an overestimate, but maybe I underestimated the velocity of money on the exchange.

Then revenue over 8 years = D * V * F * 8 * 365  = D * 0.1 * 0.005 * 8 * 365 = D * 1.46.

So if the total value of deposited funds ever exceeded 1.46 times the average value of deposited funds, then the shareholders would get more money by stealing the deposits than by accumulating 8 years of revenue.

Let's say I way underestimated V. So suppose it's bigger by a factor of ten. Then the condition for rational (but evil) shareholders to decide to steal the deposits would be if the total amount currently deposited exceeds the average amount on deposit by a factor of 14.6. Could we be confident that that would never happen?

Even if it did, I don't think it is credible to suggest that the majority of participants would engage in such blatant fraud.

I certainly agree that it's unlikely; I was just asking about their powers.

Presumably they could also do things like freeze or confiscate Jed McCaleb's XRP if they thought there was a good non-fraudulent reason to.

Do we know that no single person will ever accumulate more than half of the shares?

Is there any way to prevent an enterprising gang of thieves from buying a majority of the shares?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: BCExchange on April 23, 2015, 10:36:42 PM
The motion has been introduced to NuShare holders for voting here: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/172

You can follow along with the results of the motion by watching motion hash 20e1ec16c5527c3873699e702c96a980c22faed9 on http://blockexplorer.nu/motions. Once the vote eclipses 50.00% of blocks and 50.00% of share days destroyed (SDD), the motion will be considered successful and the auction will begin. If it does not pass, the auction will not begin in its current form.

It is important to note that this same motion functionality will be present within the BlockShares protocol, as mentioned in a previous question about trading pairs. BlockShares holders will be able to determine development goals for B&C Exchange through blockchain consensus. This feature has already been proven to be an effective method of making development decisions for the Nu network, and we are enthusiastic about its use here.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 24, 2015, 04:14:13 PM

I suspect most reputed signers will operate within the Tor network, which is very easy to do. Even if they don't use any proxy, determining which node is theirs is a difficult task that only organizations like NSA could hope to have any success at (if they cared to devote resources to it). Therefore, the premise of your scenario, that reputed signer IP addresses will be known, is false.

You're right; Tor would solve the problem. If someone takes down the exit node you can just switch to another one.

I think more humble organizations than the NSA could discover a signer's static ip, though. Here's a half dozen ways to do it off the top of my head:

1. Go to the signer's house and apply a rubber hose to the signer until the ip address (or even the private key) is volunteered.
2. Various other methods of coercion / blackmail / deception, including court orders, dating the signer, pretending to be the cable guy or whatever.
3. Hire a hacker / private detective to get the information (or hack into his computer yourself).
4. Own the company who leases the signer's VPS. How many will run their nodes on Amazon? If they keep the identity of their VPS providers secret from each other, how will they ever know if they're using the same one?
5. Ask the signer what VPS services he's tried and which ones he thinks are good. Compare the ip address ranges these VPS services provide to the ip addresses of persistent nodes.
6. Connect to 100 nodes. When a message from the target signer arrives, measure the time at which each node publishes the message. Drop the slowest 50 and connect to 50 different random nodes. Repeat. The probability that you're connected to the target signer increases with each iteration.

The first five methods you have described can be thwarted if a reputed signer is pseudonymous without revealing information about themselves outside the scope of their signing operation, which is exactly what I expect will occur.

The sixth method you describe would work if you presume a static IP, but if static IPs are a problem then signers won't use them. All they need to do is run the Tor browser bundle and configure the proxy settings in their B&C client. My guess is signers will do this.

If the shareholders feel so inclined, can they pass a motion requiring all the depositors' funds to be distributed among themselves?

Shareholders could do any number of things that would destroy their entire investment, but we can be sure they wouldn't be so foolish. When you consider that the market cap is likely to be equal to many years worth of revenue, it is unlikely that deposits will exceed market cap.

Well yes and no. Market cap > Revenue only implies Market cap > Deposits if Revenue > Deposits.

But would, say, 8 years of revenue really always exceed the value of the total deposits?

Let's say the total amount deposited on average is D. Let V be the number of times per day that money is traded. I might be wrong, but I think most of the money on the exchanges doesn't trade every day. Most of it stays in balances or in orders that don't get executed, I think. So I think V is less than 1, probably about 0.1. I might be way off.

And let F be the fee that you charge. Let's say it's 0.5%. That might be an overestimate, but maybe I underestimated the velocity of money on the exchange.

Then revenue over 8 years = D * V * F * 8 * 365  = D * 0.1 * 0.005 * 8 * 365 = D * 1.46.

So if the total value of deposited funds ever exceeded 1.46 times the average value of deposited funds, then the shareholders would get more money by stealing the deposits than by accumulating 8 years of revenue.

Let's say I way underestimated V. So suppose it's bigger by a factor of ten. Then the condition for rational (but evil) shareholders to decide to steal the deposits would be if the total amount currently deposited exceeds the average amount on deposit by a factor of 14.6. Could we be confident that that would never happen?

Thanks for the calculations. The range of values each variable could possess is considerable, so determining a reasonable scenario is difficult. While I suspect the market cap will exceed deposits, I agree that might not be the case at some point in time.

It is still implausible that so many people in a position of trust would collude to perpetuate such blatant fraud. Consider the case of BTC-e.com, a pseudonymous exchange that has been operating for four years without taking users' funds. That is functionally a 1 of 1 in multisig vocabulary. Each additional signer dramatically reduces the chances of this type of fraud. If 1 of 1 can work in at least some cases over a long time period and with the system having the capability to move as high as perhaps 11 of 15 signers if defending against such an outcome were a priority, we can be confident the chances of this type of fraud occurring on B&C Exchange is exceedingly low.

Presumably they could also do things like freeze or confiscate Jed McCaleb's XRP if they thought there was a good non-fraudulent reason to.

Unlike Ripple, the architecture of B&C Exchange is fundamentally incompatible with permitting anyone to freeze BlockShares, because transaction processing is truly decentralized.

However, funds placed in deposit addresses have different characteristics than assets that are natively held on the B&C Exchange blockchain. While no implementation of the feature is planned, it would be relatively easy for individual signers to maintain a list of addresses they will refuse to sign transfer for. Imagine funds which could be verified to have been stolen from BTER were placed in an exchange deposit address. If the majority of individual signers decided to sign a transaction to return funds to BTER, it would occur. But it would have to be done transparently and if shareholders felt any such action reduced the value of their BlockShares they would downvote the reputed signer and the protocol would no longer permit them to sign new deposit addresses. So there is a degree of flexibility with how deposited funds are handled, but signers will be held accountable in all cases and in all cases the cooperation of most signers will be required. Shareholders will collectively remain in control, because they control who the signers are.

Do we know that no single person will ever accumulate more than half of the shares?

Is there any way to prevent an enterprising gang of thieves from buying a majority of the shares?

We have a lot of very dedicated shareholders with a tremendous belief in the value of shares. They would not let go of the majority of their shares except at truly exceptional prices. My guess is that if you wanted to acquire a majority of the shares you would need to increase the market cap 100 times or more to do so. If you did that, you would have tremendous stake and would rationally take extraordinary care to maintain and increase the value of your BlockShares. Some imagine a central bank or government may be willing to purchase shares/coins of PoS networks to gain control of them in order to destroy them and prevent them from competing with their monetary systems. I don't think this approach would be an effective method for such entities to oppose PoS networks. They would just make their opponent rich and there are too many PoS networks to do this with. It would only cause the proliferation of PoS networks as a result of the financial success. We can only hope they are foolish enough to attempt this, but I doubt it.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: fatbitcoinfan on April 24, 2015, 09:01:43 PM
Thanks for the informative answers.

I can't think of any remaining weaknesses.

I'm quite looking forward to seeing it up and running!


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 24, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
In order for the motion authorizing the proposed auction and development of B&C Exchange to pass, it must receive at least 5001 votes in any 10000 consecutive blocks on the Nu network blockchain. There have been 1489 blocks found since voting began. 58.5% of these blocks contain a vote in favor of the development of B&C Exchange. The motion is on course to pass in about 5 days. When and if it does, bids for NuShares (which will entitle holders to an equivalent quantity of B&C Exchange BlockShares) will be accepted for a period of two weeks.

The Peershare motion system is wonderful for proving and disproving shareholder consensus to take any articulated course of action. It helps introduce bold changes while maintaining a sense of fairness among shareholders. New shareholders will be delighted with its utility.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: mhps on April 25, 2015, 01:40:26 AM
Could you summarize the requirement for the signers? The design doc has some but there are  more scattered in posts. It seems that there are a lot of requirements as what and how the signer should do quickly and everyday. Being a signers is like a full time job. If a signer works 8 hours a day you'd need three to fill one around-the-clock position, which B&C needs ~10. Can B&C find so many dedicated reputable signers?
If they are to be paid to be motivated, B&C would need to pay 30+ person's salary (with fees or whatever)?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: Eugen3 on April 25, 2015, 07:13:51 AM
Reading into this project more and based on what I know from being a NuShare owner and staying up to date, it appears you are starting to and have the tools necessary to build an entire crypto-ecosystem on top of the Peershares platform in a similar fashion to other crypto 2.0 platforms and Nu will act as the central bank of the economy.  Each DAC with it's own customized Peershares implementation.

So I guess my question is, what aren't you telling us?

What is next?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 25, 2015, 07:43:55 AM
Jordan, ppcman posted this on the Peercointalk chat. Care to comment on any of it?

"The only problem I have, is that it will feel like NXT's asset exchange with a 1 minute delay between trades. If you've ever bought/sold on NXT's Asset Exchange, it just feels wrong to wait so long between transactions. People need to start learning that a common chain with API is the way to go. Let NXT participate. Let Bitshares participate. Let NuShares participate. That's the only way a real decentralized exchange can work. Is if you invite every one to the party.

...even let centralized exchanges participate too. Like a Fidonet system from the BBS days. That's going way back, but there's wiki on it for younger people. To explain, fidonet was a network of messaging spread across the world from proprietary BBS software. It didn't matter what platform you ran, or what software you had. As long as it was compatible with Fidonet, you got the feed. That's what the decentalized exchange of the future will be. Some thing that invites every one to participate and doesn't hold any particular coin or share system special.

We need more collaberation between competing crypto solutions in order for any of this to work. You can't leave any one behind when it comes to decentralized exchanges. That doesn't mean share drops either. It means make it cross-platform compatible. Only then will get adoption and the traffic needed to make it work. In my opinion, watching the crypto scene evolve is like watching grass grow, or a pot of water warm enough to boil. really annoying. I know where we're headed, it is just frustrating waiting for every one to realize it. just my 0.02 cents (or my 0.1 PPC)"


Nu will act as the central bank of the economy.

I would prefer to call it a decentralized bank, but I think you're onto the right line of thinking here.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 25, 2015, 09:50:00 AM
Could you summarize the requirement for the signers? The design doc has some but there are  more scattered in posts. It seems that there are a lot of requirements as what and how the signer should do quickly and everyday. Being a signers is like a full time job. If a signer works 8 hours a day you'd need three to fill one around-the-clock position, which B&C needs ~10. Can B&C find so many dedicated reputable signers?
If they are to be paid to be motivated, B&C would need to pay 30+ person's salary (with fees or whatever)?

Being a reputed signer takes absolutely zero work on a day to day basis. Everything is automated except the release of other signers' security deposits, but that is likely to occur less than once a month. The first version of B&C Exchange will also require signers to occasionally broadcast deposit public key lists, although this can be automated in later versions. For now most signers will set up their operation on a VPS. It just runs. You get block rewards. That is all.

There is just a bit to set up to get started, but there really isn't much to it. Here is a hypothetical example of how a signer would get started:

Adam decides to commit to being a Bitcoin and Nu signer, which means he is promising to always be able to send verifications and sign transfers for the deposit addresses he publishes for those blockchains, unless and until he permanently transfers the keys and responsibilities to another signer (who has already established a reputation). He believes BlockShare holders will trust him because he has been an important developer in the Nu community for a year and has proved reliable and trustworthy in that role.

Adam takes the following steps to prepare for the responsibility:

  • He pays for a VPS subscription.
  • He installs the Bitcoin client, the Nu client, the B&C Exchange client and the Tor browser bundle on the VPS.
  • Each of the three clients is configured to use Tor by configuring the proxy settings in each client's Options dialog.
  • He opens the bcexchange.conf file to configure access to the Nu and Bitcoin clients. The IP address (127.0.0.1), port number, blockchain ID, rpcuser and rpcpassword are entered for both clients.
  • Using the getnewaddress RPC command in the B&C client (which has optional parameters for specifying how many new addresses to create and a blockchain ID), Adam creates 1000 new Bitcoin addresses, 1000 new NuBit addresses and 1000 new NuShare addresses.
  • He creates a BlockShare and a BlockCredit address he will use as his reputed signer identity.
  • He creates multiple backups of all five wallets, using encrypted volumes.
  • Using the pairaddresses RPC of the B&C client, a blockchain record pairing Adam's reputed BlockCredit and reputed BlockShare address is created.
  • Using the depositaddresslist RPC of the B&C client, Adam publishes his public Bitcoin, NuBit and NuShare addresses on the B&C blockchain.
  • Adam's technical preparations are complete, so he makes a forum post detailing his preparations, promises to be a signer for at least a year, promises to hand over keys to a top reputed signer in the event he eventually chooses stop being a signer, posts a security deposit in BlockShares worth $20,000 and asks BlockShare holders to upvote his reputed signing address.

BlockShare holders respond favorably to Adam's request for upvotes and after two weeks Adam becomes a top reputed signer. Everything he needs to do on a daily basis is completely automated. Adam only needs to ensure his VPS is running with the required software. As his Bitcoin, NuBit and NuShares signing addresses get consumed by exchange users, he will need to publish more. That can be automated in later iterations.

Adam has 6% of all reputation points, so he gets the reputed signer block reward in 6% of blocks as his compensation.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: mhps on April 25, 2015, 01:56:09 PM
For now most signers will set up their operation on a VPS. It just runs. You get block rewards. That is all.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
It's quite a long list although I hope most of the technical part can be done by a signer's installation kit.
You didn't mention other things the signers can do such as blocking certain addresses. These need constant attention.

Please take answering this question as a way to help me to understand where the signer's discretion (hence honesty and reputation) is needed: If it's all so simple, why can't a pre-made robot  be a reputable signer? They can be programmed not to cheat.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: JordanLee on April 25, 2015, 03:10:41 PM
If it's all so simple, why can't a pre-made robot  be a reputable signer? They can be programmed not to cheat.

The software is a pre-made robot doing all the signing, I would say. The reason the task has to be allocated to a specific entity is that they must use and manage private keys in a secure manner.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: JordanLee on April 25, 2015, 03:46:32 PM
Jordan, ppcman posted this on the Peercointalk chat. Care to comment on any of it?

"The only problem I have, is that it will feel like NXT's asset exchange with a 1 minute delay between trades. If you've ever bought/sold on NXT's Asset Exchange, it just feels wrong to wait so long between transactions. People need to start learning that a common chain with API is the way to go. Let NXT participate. Let Bitshares participate. Let NuShares participate. That's the only way a real decentralized exchange can work. Is if you invite every one to the party.

...even let centralized exchanges participate too. Like a Fidonet system from the BBS days. That's going way back, but there's wiki on it for younger people. To explain, fidonet was a network of messaging spread across the world from proprietary BBS software. It didn't matter what platform you ran, or what software you had. As long as it was compatible with Fidonet, you got the feed. That's what the decentalized exchange of the future will be. Some thing that invites every one to participate and doesn't hold any particular coin or share system special.

We need more collaberation between competing crypto solutions in order for any of this to work. You can't leave any one behind when it comes to decentralized exchanges. That doesn't mean share drops either. It means make it cross-platform compatible. Only then will get adoption and the traffic needed to make it work. In my opinion, watching the crypto scene evolve is like watching grass grow, or a pot of water warm enough to boil. really annoying. I know where we're headed, it is just frustrating waiting for every one to realize it. just my 0.02 cents (or my 0.1 PPC)"


Peer to peer consensus mechanisms simply can't instantly create consensus with the level of certainly needed to safely and irreversibly transfer value. The time needed can be collapsed with shorter block times in the future (as network latency drops) or using trusted nodes. The extremely secure way in which funds are handled will make it worth the short wait for experienced traders who understand just how high the risk of default is with centralized exchanges.

I expect BlockShare holders will choose to support NXT and Bitshares, so B&C Exchange will be open in a way NXT and Bitshares are not, because those platforms only permit you to trade assets that are native to their blockchain. So if you want to trade Bitcoin for Bitshares, you can't do it using the Bitshares exchange. You would first need to acquire BitBTC, an asset on the Bitshare blockchain designed to track Bitcoin. With B&C Exchange, however, you will be able to trade Bitshares for Bitcoin directly without the use of proxy assets. B&C Exchange is truly cross-platform compatible.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: JordanLee on April 25, 2015, 04:39:18 PM
Reading into this project more and based on what I know from being a NuShare owner and staying up to date, it appears you are starting to and have the tools necessary to build an entire crypto-ecosystem on top of the Peershares platform in a similar fashion to other crypto 2.0 platforms and Nu will act as the central bank of the economy.  Each DAC with it's own customized Peershares implementation.

So I guess my question is, what aren't you telling us?

What is next?

The crypto-economy first and foremost needs a stable currency as a foundation. That's why I created Nu. B&C Exchange serves as a second demonstration of how the Peershare platform can be customized to support very diverse business models. It is also a market for trading equity in decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs). Just as the US dollar is the currency used to trade in and out of shares on the NASDAQ exchange, NuBits will be the currency used to trade in and out of shares on B&C Exchange.

What is next? Hopefully an ever increasing supply of DAOs (some using the Peershare platform), each offering its own novel business model. If this auction is successful, we will have proven a novel method for providing angel funding to create a new DAO by demonstrating that funding can actually come from a pre-existing DAO. We are discovering a new type of venture capitalist here: the DAO.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: BCExchange on April 25, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
Here's an open question for everyone. What cryptoassets would you like to see on the exchange on Day 1 besides Bitcoin, BlockShares, BlockCredits, NuBits, and NuShares? If there is a very popular suggestion we may look at adding it for our first release.

Of course, BlockShare holders will have full control over what cryptoassets are added after the release of B&C Exchange, through shareholder motion voting.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 25, 2015, 06:50:57 PM
Here's an open question for everyone. What cryptoassets would you like to see on the exchange on Day 1 besides Bitcoin, BlockShares, BlockCredits, NuBits, and NuShares? If there is a very popular suggestion we may look at adding it for our first release.

I think Peercoin should have probably been listed in there, since it's our dividend coin for NuShares, plus the fact that most of us came from that community. It would be great for Peercoiners to be able to reduce their reliance on btc-e in case something ever happened to it. I've also talked to Sunny King about B&C and he's interested in seeing it on there.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: hankrules on April 25, 2015, 10:10:53 PM
Here's an open question for everyone. What cryptoassets would you like to see on the exchange on Day 1 besides Bitcoin, BlockShares, BlockCredits, NuBits, and NuShares? If there is a very popular suggestion we may look at adding it for our first release.

Of course, BlockShare holders will have full control over what cryptoassets are added after the release of B&C Exchange, through shareholder motion voting.

I think you should list the cryptoassets that would most benefit me personally.  Slimcoin, Vanillacoin, and Bitshares.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 26, 2015, 06:31:40 AM
Hey Jordan, here is another response from the Peercointalk chat, this time from Pillow. It seems he was wondering about leverage being added.

Quote from: Pillow
I've glanced over Jordan's paper. To me it looks similar (from a user) to shapeshift, with the added benefit of getting the fill at the price you set. So like Shapeshift with a "fill" feature, but decentralized and likely cheaper. I would never use the exchange myself to even try and trade during market crashes, because of the latency. Also, if I understand it correctly, it doesn't let me leverage up the trade. so basically _not_ a "trading exchange" but instead an "asset exchange". I think this kind of exchange could serve a niche role and also the decentralized plug-n-play like way of adding new symbols to be traded could make it _super adapative_ to whatever new symbols comes along. If latency and/or leverage could be added, that would be amazing. I'm probably going to support this decentralized Jordan exchange thing, even if I wont make any money on it, I think I want to support the effort. Neucoin... I've not even bothered taking that survey where you get some free coins. It has the feel of a pump n dump, especially in comparison to this exchange thing which is actually solving a real world problem.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: romerun on April 26, 2015, 06:44:20 AM
following this


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: freemind1 on April 26, 2015, 12:35:59 PM
The project seems very interesting and is well explained. It has my services as a translator if needed and congratulations on the project BCExchange.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: JordanLee on April 26, 2015, 01:20:39 PM
Hey Jordan, here is another response from the Peercointalk chat, this time from Pillow. It seems he was wondering about leverage being added.

Quote from: Pillow
I've glanced over Jordan's paper. To me it looks similar (from a user) to shapeshift, with the added benefit of getting the fill at the price you set. So like Shapeshift with a "fill" feature, but decentralized and likely cheaper. I would never use the exchange myself to even try and trade during market crashes, because of the latency. Also, if I understand it correctly, it doesn't let me leverage up the trade. so basically _not_ a "trading exchange" but instead an "asset exchange". I think this kind of exchange could serve a niche role and also the decentralized plug-n-play like way of adding new symbols to be traded could make it _super adapative_ to whatever new symbols comes along. If latency and/or leverage could be added, that would be amazing. I'm probably going to support this decentralized Jordan exchange thing, even if I wont make any money on it, I think I want to support the effort. Neucoin... I've not even bothered taking that survey where you get some free coins. It has the feel of a pump n dump, especially in comparison to this exchange thing which is actually solving a real world problem.

Shapeshift is a very useful centralized service. It is probably easier to use and is faster for first time users (but not repeat users). However, B&C will have four advantages over Shapeshift:

  • On liquid trading pairs the cost of trading will be much less (I have calculated it at around 2% on Shapeshift). While the cost will be dependent on ever changing spreads, I expect costs to typically be about 10% as much (0.2%). The percent cost will depend on your order size and the spread independent NuBit liquidity providers set. Overhead costs will be very low on B&C Exchange while liquidity will be very high due to liquidity operations from Nu.
  • It can't be shut down, for the same reasons Bitcoin can't be.
  • It supports limit orders where you set a price you will pay and it will fill when and if the market moves to that price
  • After a beta period, it will support much larger orders (the limit is $1000 on Shapeshift)

While orders are not instantly eligible to be filled (they require a network configurable number of confirmations), order cancellations do take effect instantly.

Because B&C Exchange will be dependent on the blockchains of the assets it supports, only reliable blockchains should be supported. I suspect we will see more than 10 supported shortly after release.

There are no plans to support margin trading on B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: JordanLee on April 26, 2015, 01:27:58 PM
The project seems very interesting and is well explained. It has my services as a translator if needed and congratulations on the project BCExchange.

There will be need for translators in the client and HTML5/Javascript UI at a minimum. What language can you translate into?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: freemind1 on April 26, 2015, 02:15:22 PM
I translate from English to Spanish and of course Spanish to English.

Here some of my works:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018997.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1016871.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1026566.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028182.0

Greetings.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: bubbletea789 on April 27, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
I am a bit confused..so we had peershares, then nushares and now blockshare?
how are they related?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: BCExchange on April 27, 2015, 03:26:28 PM
I am a bit confused..so we had peershares, then nushares and now blockshare?
how are they related?

Peershares is a free open-source template that was created in 2014 by Jordan Lee. Peershares are an inexpensive and decentralized ledger to be used by businesses for tracking share ownership and distributing dividends in an automated fashion. Shares can be transferred and held just like other cryptocurrency units, such as Peercoins or Bitcoins. Anyone can create their own Peershares blockchain for free.

Nu (NuBits and NuShares) is the first customized Peershares implementation. A useful way of thinking about it is that Nu is a project using the Peershares template to run its own pegged currency operation.

B&C Exchange (BlockShares and BlockCredits) will be the second customized Peershares implementation. Similar to Nu, B&C Exchange will be using the Peershares template to run its own decentralized exchange operation. However, while Nu was developed from the basic Peershares source code, B&C Exchange will be developed from the more extensively customized Nu source code.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: profitofthegods on April 27, 2015, 07:37:03 PM
New to NuShares, but I'm interested in the decentralized exchange.

I think I remember this being put to a vote or something amongst NuShares holders - is that right? Has it already happened?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: BCExchange on April 27, 2015, 07:45:55 PM
New to NuShares, but I'm interested in the decentralized exchange.

I think I remember this being put to a vote or something amongst NuShares holders - is that right? Has it already happened?

Nice to have you here with us. Yes, the motion to auction these 100,000,000 NuShares (which will grant its holders 100,000,000 BlockShares once B&C Exchange is launched) is currently being voted on.

Our website shows that the motion 20e1ec16c5527c3873699e702c96a980c22faed9 (http://blockexplorer.nu/motions) is at about 42% support right now and rising quickly. It appears the motion will pass within the next 24-48 hours unless the voting changes significantly. Once the motion passes, we will begin the auction in this thread with an updated OP.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: cryptog1 on April 27, 2015, 09:47:17 PM
How would you compare B&C exchange approach to this approach (= https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15864.msg204707.html#msg204707) in which a decentralized exchange uses delegated proof of stake (a fork of bitshares block chain) involving some sort of decentralized consensus to manage the behavior of the escrow implied inside the system?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: lucasjkr on April 27, 2015, 09:59:24 PM
Is sonny king involved?

And how exactly does multisig operate on man exchange were coins are traded at high frequency? The transactions need to be off blockchain, and an exchange Weill want to make sure their books and records match up... What if a customer refuses to sign a transaction since they're on the losing side of their trading?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: lucasjkr on April 27, 2015, 11:07:50 PM
Is sonny king involved?

And how exactly does multisig operate on man exchange were coins are traded at high frequency? The transactions need to be off blockchain, and an exchange Weill want to make sure their books and records match up... What if a customer refuses to sign a transaction since they're on the losing side of their trading?

Multisig, to me, makes no sense at an exchange. Either the trades are occurring on blockchain, which would make for slow trades be arduous with multisigs, or they're off blockchain, so the trader needs to essentially sign over his or her coins to the exchange so that the exchange can allocate positions as needed.

Can someone explain what I'm missing?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: RocketSingh on April 27, 2015, 11:44:19 PM
Multisig, to me, makes no sense at an exchange...

Can someone explain what I'm missing?

You did not miss anything. Rather, you got the thing.

I see, some cryptographic pundits today want to enforce multisig in everything. Either they do not understand or they do not want to understand for a reason. I think, the second is true. And the reason is, they simply want to make multisig a selling point of their product to the ignorant public.

Use of Multisig for a trade on the blockchain is just rubbish. It is only required in the site wallet.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: bubbletea789 on April 28, 2015, 12:44:02 AM
Thanks :)

I am a bit confused..so we had peershares, then nushares and now blockshare?
how are they related?

Peershares is a free open-source template that was created in 2014 by Jordan Lee. Peershares are an inexpensive and decentralized ledger to be used by businesses for tracking share ownership and distributing dividends in an automated fashion. Shares can be transferred and held just like other cryptocurrency units, such as Peercoins or Bitcoins. Anyone can create their own Peershares blockchain for free.

Nu (NuBits and NuShares) is the first customized Peershares implementation. A useful way of thinking about it is that Nu is a project using the Peershares template to run its own pegged currency operation.

B&C Exchange (BlockShares and BlockCredits) will be the second customized Peershares implementation. Similar to Nu, B&C Exchange will be using the Peershares template to run its own decentralized exchange operation. However, while Nu was developed from the basic Peershares source code, B&C Exchange will be developed from the more extensively customized Nu source code.



Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 28, 2015, 12:52:36 AM
Is sonny king involved?

Sunny King is not involved, but I've talked to him about the B&C exchange project. He said that he's happy that Jordan's team will once again be tackling a difficult project like this. He's also excited about the types of DAOs that continue to come out of the Peershares software designed by Jordan. I personally feel we're at the very beginning stages of an economy that will be filled with DAOs. It's something that will become very widespread and Peershares will be at the forefront of it.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: cryptog1 on April 28, 2015, 02:04:52 AM
Why not using nubits instead of credits?


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: JordanLee on April 28, 2015, 04:29:53 AM
And how exactly does multisig operate on man exchange were coins are traded at high frequency? The transactions need to be off blockchain, and an exchange Weill want to make sure their books and records match up... What if a customer refuses to sign a transaction since they're on the losing side of their trading?

Multisig, to me, makes no sense at an exchange. Either the trades are occurring on blockchain, which would make for slow trades be arduous with multisigs, or they're off blockchain, so the trader needs to essentially sign over his or her coins to the exchange so that the exchange can allocate positions as needed.

Can someone explain what I'm missing?

I think you've applied some incorrect assumptions based on the typical operation of centralized exchanges. While our interface will feel much like the familiar centralized exchange experience, the back end is radically different.

In order to allow every network node to verify that the records do match up, all transactions are placed on blockchain. A customer can't refuse to sign a fund transfer because their funds are held in a multisig escrow consisting of up to 15 top reputed signers. Only these top reputed signers can refuse to sign. They won't refuse because they will lose a large security deposit, future income and their reputation. Even if some signers behave maliciously, in the case of an 8 of 15 multisig deposit address the system can tolerate up to 7 rogue top reputed signers and still function properly, so the system is highly fault tolerant. Shareholders choose who is a top reputed signer on an ongoing basis through voting in every block.

Transfers from multisig deposit addresses will be made in seconds.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: JordanLee on April 28, 2015, 04:51:03 AM
they simply want to make multisig a selling point of their product to the ignorant public.

Use of Multisig for a trade on the blockchain is just rubbish. It is only required in the site wallet.

Use of multisig deposit addresses is certainly not a superfluous marketing gimmick. It is a method of requiring consensus that funds should in fact be transferred. Consider the typical exchange default either due to a thief obtaining access to a wallet or an insider deciding to steal funds. The thief only needs to get the keys in a single wallet because multisig is not used. Now consider what a thief must do in the case of an 8 of 15 multisig deposit address in B&C Exchange. He must compromise 8 different wallets all held by different pseudonymous top reputed signers whose IP addresses are unlikely to be known. All communication to and from them are just network broadcasts, so there is no good way to even go about trying to locate them to target them.

Your comment about a site wallet suggests you are applying a centralized exchange paradigm (there is nothing like a site in the design). Hopefully my post just prior to this one can help clarify how multisig is used in B&C Exchange as well.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: JordanLee on April 28, 2015, 04:59:57 AM
Why not using nubits instead of credits?

Transaction fees (the sole use for BlockCredits) must be paid using an asset native to B&C Exchange. NuBits live on a different blockchain.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin
Post by: cryptog1 on April 28, 2015, 09:52:45 AM
Why not using nubits instead of credits?

Transaction fees (the sole use for BlockCredits) must be paid using an asset native to B&C Exchange. NuBits live on a different blockchain.

I see. Tks.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 28, 2015, 02:19:40 PM
The auction is now live. Please read the "Auction" section in the original post to place a bid.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 28, 2015, 03:02:30 PM
The auction is now live. Please read the "Auction" section in the original post to place a bid.

Thanks, bid sent.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: JordanLee on April 28, 2015, 03:04:09 PM
The motion voted on by NuShare holders (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001 (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001)) to approve this auction took just 6519 blocks to receive the 5001 votes needed in any consecutive 10,0000 blocks required for passage. That is 76.7% in favor. The last 1000 blocks prior to passage contained 817 votes in favor of the motion (81.7%), which I would consider the most accurate measure of consensus.

This auction and the creation of B&C Exchange has overwhelming support from NuShare holders.

Using the Peershares framework permits decentralized networks to reach consensus on and move forward with bold and controversial proposals. Peershare networks (B&C Exchange will be one) can evolve and adapt quickly as directed by shareholders.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Polvos on April 28, 2015, 04:55:15 PM
Can someone please explain me how the dividend system works? How do you prevent inside trading cheating when buying bitcoins in order to distribute dividends?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 28, 2015, 05:11:52 PM
Can someone please explain me how the dividend system works?

Of course. Let's start with the relevant use case from the design document:

Quote
BlockCredits are used solely to pay transaction fees on B&C. Community members with excellent reputations may propose to become BlockCredit custodians subject to shareholder approval. While the protocol permits shareholders to elect anyone to become a BlockCredit custodian for any purpose, it is expected that shareholders will elect BKC custodians that will make the BKC they receive available for sale at a variety of exchanges and venues. A BKC custodian may be a single entity or a group of entities using a multisig address to jointly control BKC they receive. Once sold, a BKS custodian will use the funds received to purchase Bitcoin and distribute it as dividends to all shareholders in proportion to their holdings.

In short, a BlockCredit (BKC) custodian will be given BKC to sell on an exchange through a shareholder vote. The custodian will sell the BKC for Bitcoin (or NBT, or USD), and then return the funds in the form of Bitcoin to all shareholders using the automated dividend function present in the protocol.

This mechanism is currently being used with great success in the NuBits and NuShares network. Here is a video showing how a custodian would distribute a dividend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVqMjAoYBg

You'll notice that there is a specific date and time set for the dividend. Dividends are automatically distributed based on the ownership of shares at a specific point in time. Once a custodian has announced that a dividend has been distributed to shareholders, you would open up your Bitcoin and BlockShares clients and then use a button that automatically imports the dividend into your Bitcoin wallet.

How do you prevent inside trading cheating when buying bitcoins in order to distribute dividends?

It is likely that regular dividends will occur, possibly every week or two. As such, the custodian will be required to publicly account for the funds they received. For example, they might say "I sold 10,433 BlockCredits this week on a BKC/BTC pair, and received 40.987 BTC in total" Or, if a BKC/USD trading pair was used, they could say "I sold 10,433 BlockCredits this week for 10,433 USD. I purchased 41.732 BTC at 250.00 USD with the USD funds received." Should a custodian try and "skim" some BTC off that dividend amount, it is likely that shareholders will switch to a more honest custodian. In the event of perceived dishonesty, shareholders could request that custodians share their trading logs to ensure that full value is being returned to shareholders.

Did that answer your questions?




Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Polvos on April 28, 2015, 06:52:16 PM
Ok, you say "This mechanism is currently being used with great success in the NuBits and NuShares network." Well, I'm a three months Nushare holder in your six months old Nubits/Nushares system and didn't see in all this time a single dime in dividends. All I have seen is nubits custodians losing funds in hacked/adminrunnered exchanges and Nushares holders being diluted trying to compensate the custodians lost.

Are we going to repeat the system where Blockcredits custodians will try to elevate grants to start operating in  small and untrustworthy exchanges while Shareholders are covering the losses after the unavoidables hacks/adminrunnings?

I'm sorry being so negative, but I think shareholders will find themselves pretty soon underwater as happened in nubits/nushares because, probably, it's less dangerous to exchange quickly in some big centralized sites (like shapeshift.io) than mutualizing all the inevitable losses that custodians are going to suffer in the small and untrustworthy exchanges that will agree to accept the BKC/BTC trading pair.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 28, 2015, 07:09:55 PM
Are we going to repeat the system where Blockcredits custodians will try to elevate grants to start operating in  small and untrustworthy exchanges and the Shareholders will cover the losses after the unavoidables hacks/adminrunnings?

BlockShares holders will have full control over which exchanges its custodians sell on since there is no centralized control by its developers. This means that shareholders could conceivably only elect BKC custodians that operate directly on B&C Exchange's safe platform.

It is also worth pointing out that "mutualizing all the losses that custodians are going to suffer" is outside the scope of B&C Exchange operations because BlockCredits will not be supported at any specific price level. They will simply be sold for 1.00 USD. In the event that BKC are stolen from a custodian operating on a centralized exchange, they would likely be dumped on other exchanges for fractions of a dollar. Shareholders would only suffer lost revenue from the lack of new BKC being sold during the time the stolen BKC were dumped. For this reason, it is also likely that shareholders will prefer granting small batches of BKC to a custodian that will last for a week or two, rather than providing a year-long supply of BKC up front. Continuous replenishment of BKC to custodians is very easy in our design.

The design of B&C Exchange will protect networks like NuBits from the unpredictable and devastating failings of centralized exchanges. You are right that NuShareholders have not recently voted to give themselves a dividend as they work to recover from the exchange hackings of February. The dividend mechanism has been used in the past however and is fully functional.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: profitofthegods on April 28, 2015, 07:10:45 PM
I think its a shame you have such a high minimum - I would have like to put in my little half a bitcoin or something but there is no way I can afford $1000+. Can't say I'm very keen on the blind auction method either. But I wish you the best of luck and hope to one day be a customer even if I can't be a backer. In the meantime I've just published an article about this on my news blog:

http://cryptonewsday.com/nushares-votes-for-auction-to-fund-decentralized-cryptocurrency-exchange/

Suggestions or corrections (or likes and shares ;)) welcomed!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 28, 2015, 07:16:45 PM
I think its a shame you have such a high minimum - I would have like to put in my little half a bitcoin or something but there is no way I can afford $1000+. Can't say I'm very keen on the blind auction method either. But I wish you the best of luck and hope to one day be a customer even if I can't be a backer. In the meantime I've just published an article about this on my news blog:

http://cryptonewsday.com/nushares-votes-for-auction-to-fund-decentralized-cryptocurrency-exchange/

Suggestions or corrections (or likes and shares ;)) welcomed!

Thank you for the mention in your article!

We understand that a blind auction requires quite a bit of trust in our team, so we hope that our prior reputations are considered when evaluating our proposal. There are likely other users here who would like to bid less than 1000 USD - perhaps they can get in contact with you to create a small group bid? In a perfect world we would accept bids of any size, but we want to avoid having to calculate the results of thousands of micro-bids. We would prefer beginning B&C development as soon as we can if the auction is successful.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Hyena on April 28, 2015, 07:53:04 PM
After various number of hacks a decentralized exchange like that is a must! I hope it gets done quickly because I don't trust centralized exchanges.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Bisha on April 28, 2015, 08:16:15 PM
any estimation on the snapshot date?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 28, 2015, 08:23:07 PM
any estimation on the snapshot date?

No, we are unable to guarantee a date that the BlockShares production blockchain will launch. Jordan Lee addressed it earlier:

Quote from: Jordan Lee
This is an important question, and one I would like to know the answer to as well. Development of an unprecedented software solution such as B&C Exchange is characterized by the unfolding of unexpected issues which must be solved.

I have delivered an unprecedented blockchain solution in the past in the form of the Nu network, which pioneered stable cryptocurrency and the ability of shareholders to constantly adjust the protocol by voting. The network worked just as promised and was delivered in 8 months at a cost of around 250,000 USD. While I made no promises about the time it would take to deliver Nu, I will report that I privately thought it would take 6 months and 500,000 USD. So, I was 50% under budget and 33% over my private time estimate.

I can say that I believe B&C Exchange is modestly or slightly simpler than creating the Peershare template and Nu. I am absolutely committed to doing everything in my power to delivering it as quickly as possible. However, investors should be aware that I am unable to absolutely guarantee its delivery at all, and I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 28, 2015, 08:26:31 PM
After various number of hacks a decentralized exchange like that is a must! I hope it gets done quickly because I don't trust centralized exchanges.

We agree. Thank you for your support!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Polvos on April 28, 2015, 09:16:20 PM
Are we going to repeat the system where Blockcredits custodians will try to elevate grants to start operating in  small and untrustworthy exchanges and the Shareholders will cover the losses after the unavoidables hacks/adminrunnings?

BlockShares holders will have full control over which exchanges its custodians sell on since there is no centralized control by its developers. This means that shareholders could conceivably only elect BKC custodians that operate directly on B&C Exchange's safe platform.

Ok, that's a good point I didn't think about and a serious difference with the Nubits/Nushares system.

It is also worth pointing out that "mutualizing all the losses that custodians are going to suffer" is outside the scope of B&C Exchange operations because BlockCredits will not be supported at any specific price level. They will simply be sold for 1.00 USD. In the event that BKC are stolen from a custodian operating on a centralized exchange, they would likely be dumped on other exchanges for fractions of a dollar. Shareholders would only suffer lost revenue from the lack of new BKC being sold during the time the stolen BKC were dumped. For this reason, it is also likely that shareholders will prefer granting small batches of BKC to a custodian that will last for a week or two, rather than providing a year-long supply of BKC up front. Continuous replenishment of BKC to custodians is very easy in our design.

Aren't custodians risking bitcoins too in the pair BKC/BTC offered in the exchange? If so, custodians could lose both and, as hackings/adminrunnings occur, less and less custodians will be willing to request a grant. Something similar happened in nubits/nushares and, the only way to provide confidence, was to compensate custodians diluting Nushare holders. Why can't this happen here?

The design of B&C Exchange will protect networks like NuBits from the unpredictable and devastating failings of centralized exchanges. You are right that NuShareholders have not recently voted to give themselves a dividend as they work to recover from the exchange hackings of February. The dividend mechanism has been used in the past however and is fully functional.

It's curious. I'm, at the same time, Nushareholder and criticizing all these subjects but, in my opinion, transparency in this development must be fundamental. I hope you understand me.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 28, 2015, 09:40:02 PM
It's curious. I'm, at the same time, Nushareholder and criticizing all these subjects but, in my opinion, transparency in this development must be fundamental. I hope you understand me.

We appreciate the questions! We feel it is important that we are able to articulate and defend the design decisions we've chosen. If we couldn't, prospective bidders would not place much credibility in our efforts.

Aren't custodians risking bitcoins too in the pair BKC/BTC offered in the exchange? If so, custodians could lose both and, as hackings/adminrunnings occur, less and less custodians will be willing to request a grant. Something similar happened in nubits/nushares and, the only way to provide confidence, was to compensate custodians diluting Nushare holders. Why can't this happen here?

Custodians will not risk any of their own BTC in this design. In contrast to NuBits, where liquidity-provider custodians must place buy and sell walls, BlockCredit custodians will only place sell-side walls. A custodian has no obligation to purchase back BlockCredits they have sold.

A relevant section from the design document:

Quote
While BlockCredits are the same as NuBits to the code base, they have a completely different purpose. They are solely for use as transaction fees and are not intended for general trade as NuBits are. Accordingly, a peg for BlockCredits will not be maintained. They are comparable to postage stamps in many ways. They are sold with the promise you will receive one US dollar worth of transactions on the B&C Exchange. Just as you wouldn't expect to be able to sell postage stamps to a third party at face value, there shouldn't be an expectation that BlockCredits can be sold for one US dollar, although a resale market may appear. BlockCredits should only be purchased with the intent of consuming them to pay transaction fees on the B&C Exchange.

Let's pretend you have been elected as a BlockCredit custodian by shareholders after you have solicited their votes. Here would be a sample timeline of events from the perspective of shareholders:

Day 1: Polvos is elected BlockCredit custodian. Shareholders vote to provide him with 5000 BKC.
Day 2-7: Polvos sells his 5000 BKC in small increments for BTC. At the end of the 7th day he has 20.000 BTC. He announces that he will send a dividend to anyone who was holding BlockShares at the end of Day 7.
Day 8: Polvos logs into his BlockShares client. He selects the "Distribute Dividends" button, inputs "23:59 UTC Day 7" for a snapshot date, and enters in 20.000 BTC. He clicks "send". All shareholders who are eligible to receive Bitcoin dividends will then receive them, provided they are eligible for a dividend that is greater than the transaction fee required to send it.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 28, 2015, 09:51:43 PM
Ok, you say "This mechanism is currently being used with great success in the NuBits and NuShares network." Well, I'm a three months Nushare holder in your six months old Nubits/Nushares system and didn't see in all this time a single dime in dividends. All I have seen is nubits custodians losing funds in hacked/adminrunnered exchanges and Nushares holders being diluted trying to compensate the custodians lost.

I just wanted to say something about this real quick. While all Nu shareholders are entitled to receive a percentage of the dividends based on how large their equity stake is in the network, it is however not guaranteed that dividends will be given at all. In order for there to be dividends, there needs to be profit for the network. Just think of Nu as a decentralized business in this case. No one in the business should receive dividends if there is no profit.

Unfortunately as you mentioned, shareholders were the victims of 4 centralized exchange failures in which a lot of shareholder funds were lost. If shareholders want to receive dividends, then they need to work hard to figure out how to prevent things like this from happening and to figure out new ways of making profit. If the employees of a business don't put in the hard work and effort, then they won't receive the reward.

Since the February hackings, shareholders have been working hard on these issues. One of the main reasons so much money was lost was because we still had a centralized liquidity operation, with only several liquidity providers managing all the money on these exchanges. To help prevent shareholder funds from being lost again, we've been working on decentralizing our liquidity operations through the development of liquidity pools, in which anyone can join in with their own funds and provide liquidity for the Nu network, also getting paid for it. People don't even need to be elected as LPCs anymore in order to provide liquidity. They simply need to join the pool with their own funds and collect interest.

Another way to prevent this from happening again is Jordan's work on this decentralized exchange, in which our liquidity operations will be protected from hackings and theft. Nu shareholders are still very much in the process of perfecting their product. It's still going to take a long time and a lot of hard work. In my opinion, this is a project that will most likely take years before we see large and consistent profits. I believe we'll get there eventually though, as long as shareholders continue to solve problems and we continue to expand into new areas and figure out new ways of making profit.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Hyena on April 28, 2015, 10:05:08 PM
Ok, you say "This mechanism is currently being used with great success in the NuBits and NuShares network." Well, I'm a three months Nushare holder in your six months old Nubits/Nushares system and didn't see in all this time a single dime in dividends. All I have seen is nubits custodians losing funds in hacked/adminrunnered exchanges and Nushares holders being diluted trying to compensate the custodians lost.

I just wanted to say something about this real quick. While all Nu shareholders are entitled to receive a percentage of the dividends based on how large their equity stake is in the network, it is however not guaranteed that dividends will be given at all. In order for there to be dividends, there needs to be profit for the network. Just think of Nu as a decentralized business in this case. No one in the business should receive dividends if there is no profit.

....

Excellent explanation. There's still a lot of work to do but we're pretty much first to enter the competition and these ideas are solid gold. Also, I would rather see the price of NuShares soar than receive dividends. Dividends might sound attractive but in our current state of development they would slow us down too much.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Polvos on April 28, 2015, 10:48:53 PM
Thank you all for your answers. I think I get it now.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 28, 2015, 11:27:00 PM
Jordan, here is a question from r/cryptocurrency...

Quote
Who have they hired to audit their security? Because if they don't pay proper experts to do so (this costs more than $50k to get right), it will be hackers doing the auditing... from the inside.

Edit: At first I thought he meant auditing the code to make sure it's secure, but now I'm not sure.

Edit 2: He expanded on his comments here...

Quote
Their software and servers must be audited for security vulnerabilities by a reputable third party if they want anyone to trust their software with real BTC.
 
There are thousands of ways to attack something like this. Random examples: is their source code repository secure, or can I insert a backdoor by guessing a simple password? Is their web UI vulnerable to XSS attacks? Can someone spend a little to build a "reputation" and leverage that to steal a lot?
 
Actual banks spend tens of millions of dollars per year on securing their transaction systems. They wouldn't spend that money if it were optional - it is absolutely mandatory to invest heavily in securing financial systems.

Edit 3: Here is the Reddit thread with his comments...

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/345zng/bc_exchange_is_an_upcoming_decentralized_bitcoin/cqs04nh


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: cryptog1 on April 29, 2015, 01:15:09 AM

Day 2-7: Polvos sells his 5000 BKC in small increments for BTC. At the end of the 7th day he has 20.000 BTC. He announces that he will send a dividend to anyone who was holding BlockShares at the end of Day 7.


Here, I suppose Polvos can sell the BKC in any exchange that accepts BKC.
After selling, he or she would have to transfer the BTC proceeds to his or her wallet (B&C client) and then distribute the dividends.
So the only ways to lose the BTCs are the followings:
- the exchange is hacked (in case the exchange is B&C, the likelihood of being stolen is very low since that would imply collusion between several trusted signers)
- his or her client is hacked.

I am correct?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 29, 2015, 04:24:43 AM

Day 2-7: Polvos sells his 5000 BKC in small increments for BTC. At the end of the 7th day he has 20.000 BTC. He announces that he will send a dividend to anyone who was holding BlockShares at the end of Day 7.


Here, I suppose Polvos can sell the BKC in any exchange that accepts BKC.
After selling, he or she would have to transfer the BTC proceeds to his or her wallet (B&C client) and then distribute the dividends.
So the only ways to lose the BTCs are the followings:
- the exchange is hacked (in case the exchange is B&C, the likelihood of being stolen is very low since that would imply collusion between several trusted signers)
- his or her client is hacked.

I am correct?

Your assessment is correct, yes. We would also add that Polvos would only sell his BKC on an approved exchange(s) as outlined in the terms of his custodial agreement with shareholders, and so not necessarily just any exchange that supports BKC.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 29, 2015, 04:35:07 AM
Thank you to everyone who has submitted a bid so far!

If you are planning on eventually bidding please remember to submit it as early as possible to ensure you have priority in the event of a tie.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: crypto_coiner on April 29, 2015, 10:31:50 AM
I feel like B&CEx is a business easier to understand than Nu and better defined -
As a custodian that got elected by shareholders, they sell credits, and distribute the proceeding to shareholders - credits are then used to be pay tx fees

On Nu, custodians receive Nubits that they sell/buy on Markets (that get hacked) and are at the mercy of Bitcoin whose volatility traders hedge against Nubit free stability.
The 1st playing field of Nubits should have been payment processors, exchanges, and gateways (PEGs)
See: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-promoting-nubits-to-internet-payment-processors-exchanges-and-gateways/2037

I am struggling to see how B&CEx is going to bring business to Nu, i.e. convert and transform Nu into a profitable business.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BonTonPlease on April 29, 2015, 12:50:50 PM
I think its a shame you have such a high minimum - I would have like to put in my little half a bitcoin or something but there is no way I can afford $1000+. Can't say I'm very keen on the blind auction method either. But I wish you the best of luck and hope to one day be a customer even if I can't be a backer. In the meantime I've just published an article about this on my news blog:

http://cryptonewsday.com/nushares-votes-for-auction-to-fund-decentralized-cryptocurrency-exchange/

Suggestions or corrections (or likes and shares ;)) welcomed!

I totally share your view that the auction method keeps small investors a little bit out of the game. At the same time we have to have in mind that point of view of the developers and why they have chosen those thresholds.

I would therefore be willing to support you and help you place your bid as I will take part in the auction. Thank you very much for that article.

For all those skeptical about the trustworthiness of Jordan Lee and the team: I am also very skeptical when it comes to crypto and fundraising and all these things. Nevertheless, one has to admit that Jordan Lee has a clean slate with regard to his achievements in cryptocurrency. Taking into account that he pulled off huge projects where he could have scammed people for quite some money, I am feeling comfortable right now with supporting the development of that exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BonTonPlease on April 29, 2015, 12:53:56 PM
Is it generally possible to correct a bid after it has been submitted?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: monsterer on April 29, 2015, 01:23:11 PM
What happens if one of the signer's server explodes and all their keys are lost?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 29, 2015, 03:32:48 PM
What happens if one of the signer's server explodes and all their keys are lost?

It's likely that shareholders will not vote for signers who have not taken the necessary precautions to run an effective, safe signing operation. This includes preparing for the possibility of hardware failure.

An earlier quote is relevant:

Quote from: Jordan Lee

Adam takes the following steps to prepare for the responsibility:

    He pays for a VPS subscription.
    He installs the Bitcoin client, the Nu client, the B&C Exchange client and the Tor browser bundle on the VPS.
    Each of the three clients is configured to use Tor by configuring the proxy settings in each client's Options dialog.
    He opens the bcexchange.conf file to configure access to the Nu and Bitcoin clients. The IP address (127.0.0.1), port number, blockchain ID, rpcuser and rpcpassword are entered for both clients.
    Using the getnewaddress RPC command in the B&C client (which has optional parameters for specifying how many new addresses to create and a blockchain ID), Adam creates 1000 new Bitcoin addresses, 1000 new NuBit addresses and 1000 new NuShare addresses.
    He creates a BlockShare and a BlockCredit address he will use as his reputed signer identity.
    He creates multiple backups of all five wallets, using encrypted volumes.
    Using the pairaddresses RPC of the B&C client, a blockchain record pairing Adam's reputed BlockCredit and reputed BlockShare address is created.
    Using the depositaddresslist RPC of the B&C client, Adam publishes his public Bitcoin, NuBit and NuShare addresses on the B&C blockchain.
    Adam's technical preparations are complete, so he makes a forum post detailing his preparations, promises to be a signer for at least a year, promises to hand over keys to a top reputed signer in the event he eventually chooses stop being a signer, posts a security deposit in BlockShares worth $20,000 and asks BlockShare holders to upvote his reputed signing address.

It is also important to note that the design of B&C Exchange is very fault tolerant in regards to signers, as mentioned in previous answers. This would include situations where a signer is dealing with a temporary hardware failure or other interruption of service.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: monsterer on April 29, 2015, 06:14:47 PM
It is also important to note that in the case of an 8 of 15 multisig deposit address the system can tolerate up to 7 rogue top reputed signers and still function properly. In this case, "rogue" could also mean any signer who is dealing with a temporary hardware failure or other interruption of service. The design of B&C Exchange is very fault tolerant in regards to signers.

Is it one signature per block?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: JordanLee on April 29, 2015, 06:36:29 PM
Is it one signature per block?

No. In most cases, all signatures will go in the same block.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: monsterer on April 29, 2015, 08:49:20 PM
Is it one signature per block?

No. In most cases, all signatures will go in the same block.

What's the block time?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: BCExchange on April 29, 2015, 09:32:01 PM
What's the block time?

Approximately one minute.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on April 29, 2015, 09:34:08 PM
Sunny King, creator of Peercoin, mentions B&C Exchange in his weekly update to the Peercoin community: https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4096.msg39107#new


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 30, 2015, 12:57:10 AM
Just a suggestion to the OP. Maybe you could shorten the title to keep an updated countdown in there, so everyone that hasn't visited the thread knows how many days are left to place a bid. For example, the shortened version below will fit in there. I just removed the word exchange, since it's already featured twice...

[ANN] B&C - A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin! - 13 days left


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on April 30, 2015, 01:01:59 AM
Just a suggestion to the OP. Maybe you could shorten the title to keep an updated countdown in there, so everyone that hasn't visited the thread knows how many days are left to place a bid. For example, the shortened version below will fit in there. I just removed the word exchange, since it's already featured twice...

[ANN] B&C - A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin! - 13 days left

Excellent suggestion, but Bitcointalk unfortunately restricts the length of titles to what we currently have. We will remove the "Bitcoin dividend" part and add a countdown timer in the last 7 days of the auction, once we're confident that a majority of readers are aware of the Bitcoin dividend feature.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange - *** LIVE AUCTION ***
Post by: cryptog1 on April 30, 2015, 01:45:50 AM

Your assessment is correct, yes. We would also add that Polvos would only sell his BKC on an approved exchange(s) as outlined in the terms of his custodial agreement with shareholders, and so not necessarily just any exchange that supports BKC.

Tks for clarifying.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: jubalix on April 30, 2015, 01:47:35 AM
I dont quite follow/grok this offer mechanism

am I biding for nushare that then some how (my priv key of something) allows me control of my blockshares


if I bid for a block share and I out bid some one we can still both get the blockshare if the person who I outbidded outbidded another person and there were blockshares left.....

so some people could massively pay more than others for blockshares....

is this right?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: jubalix on April 30, 2015, 01:57:33 AM
Also I thought this would need a ANN in the alts? As this is where you may attract a bit more capital.


Title: [ANN] B&C - A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin! - 13 days left
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 30, 2015, 02:01:12 AM
Also I thought this would need a ANN in the alts? As this is where you may attract a bit more capital.

It's not an altcoin though. It's a decentralized exchange which pays out Bitcoin dividends.

but Bitcointalk unfortunately restricts the length of titles to what we currently have.

Check the title of my post here. I shortened it and the title fits along with the countdown.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: mhps on April 30, 2015, 02:23:52 AM
Can the BlockShare holders get dividends in thier lightweight BTC wallets? Peershares export private keys to the Peercoin satoshi wallet. I hope the BlockShare shareholders don't have to have updated BTC satoshi wallet with its monster size blockchain.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on April 30, 2015, 04:25:58 AM
I dont quite follow/grok this offer mechanism

am I biding for nushare that then some how (my priv key of something) allows me control of my blockshares

Yes, your understanding is correct. Right now there is no B&C Exchange blockchain, and no BlockShares exist. NuShares do exist, however. You are bidding for NuShares. The proceeds from the auction will be used to create the protocol and user interface for B&C Exchange. When that is complete, the B&C Exchange blockchain will be created as a fork of the NuShare/NuBit blockchain. At the moment the B&C Exchange blockchain is created it will have the exact same shareholders as the NuShare/NuBit blockchain. The B&C Exchange client will allow you to select your NuShare wallet and convert it to a BlockShare wallet.

So, you bid for NuShares in the most immediate sense, but you will also receive an equivalent number of BlockShares if you keep your NuShares until the fork.

I realize most would prefer just receiving BlockShares, but doing this presents a number of problems. We could just sell the promise of receiving BlockShares months in the future when development is complete. This requires more trust than any other alternative and it makes your position completely illiquid until development is complete. We could create BlockShares on a brand new Peershare blockchain that doesn't yet have any of the features of B&C Exchange and immediately transfer those to successful auction bidders. This keeps your position liquid but it makes development more risky and expensive, because it would require updating a production blockchain protecting value with major protocol changes. Also, owning BlockShares will not be a passive investment. It requires that shareholders choosing to mint blocks constantly update their votes or subscribe to the data feed of someone they choose to trust to dynamically configure their vote. There is a risk that new shareholders who have never owned NuShares won't take care to configure their vote either manually or automatically. However, more than 90% of NuShare blocks have their vote actively configured. So, bringing in established NuShare holders ensures that the majority of minters will proactively configure their vote to adapt the network to changing conditions, which is absolutely essential for the success of B&C Exchange.

if I bid for a block share and I out bid some one we can still both get the blockshare if the person who I outbidded outbidded another person and there were blockshares left.....

so some people could massively pay more than others for blockshares....

is this right?

The price you pay is the price you bid.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on April 30, 2015, 04:52:04 AM
Also I thought this would need a ANN in the alts? As this is where you may attract a bit more capital.

We've created a separate post in the altcoin forum to ask bitcointalk users which altcoins should be supported on B&C Exchange. It will help us with determining which cryptocurrencies to support at launch, as well as help increase our exposure. Thank you for the suggestion jubalix.

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11240439#new


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 30, 2015, 05:21:43 AM
I've finally finished going through the design document and this thread and I have some questions.

1. It is mentioned that the signers will receive a block reward for the service they are carrying out. Does this mean that regular Blockshare holders who are minting will be slightly more diluted by the signers, who receive an extra reward?

2. Also, the signers need to give up a security deposit of Blockshares. If the signer no longer has control of these blockshares, will the person holding the security deposits continue to mint with them using a data feed, or will they not be minted with and the signer loses the minting reward from these held shares? If not, I think that is counter-productive, unless being a signer gives them a much larger reward than simply minting the usual way.

3. I want to make sure I understand the Blockcredit system. So shareholders will select a trustworthy custodian and vote to supply them with Blockcredits. That person will then place a sell wall at $1 on any approved exchange. The non-Bitcoin proceeds from selling these credits will be used to purchase Bitcoin. The Bitcoin will then be distributed back to shareholders as payment for providing this exchange network service.

Digging further, these Blockcredits are the only way to actually use the decentralized exchange. If you don't purchase credits then you can't trade. So let's say somebody purchases credits from a custodian. They place trades on B&C until they run out of credits and need to purchase more. In the act of trading, these Blockcredits are actually consumed or destroyed by the system, so that they no longer exist and cannot be used again. This means that as long as customers are using the B&C exchange, there will always be a constantly dwindling supply of Blockcredits. If no more Blockcredits were created by shareholders, the supply would eventually run to zero, as they're all used up trading.

If the market ever got too flooded with Blockcredits, which caused the price of the credits to drop below $1, the custodians would just need to wait and keep their sell wall in place. Everyone buying Blockcredits under $1 would be getting a great deal. Eventually though, as long as the custodian waited long enough, the Blockcredit supply would start getting lower and lower as people buy them to use on the exchange (thus getting destroyed in the process). The supply would get low enough that the price would start rising back to $1, but it would never be able to surpass it because of the sell wall in place. The shareholders would need to constantly resupply the custodians as credits are consumed in the system and the supply runs lower.

Do I understand this system correctly? If so, I think it's brilliant. I can already picture other ways to apply a credit system like this in other Peershare DAOs. There are many possible applications for this and we should develop them before others do.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: cryptog1 on April 30, 2015, 08:13:15 AM
I have a few additional questions, if you do not mind.

- Is BCExchange part of the Nu team or is he or she a new contributor?
- What is more important? The number of confirmations required by blockchain ID or the number of total reputed signers of deposit addresses of blockchain ID required by B&C, protocol wise?
- Let us say that the system requires 8 signers for each transaction to be valid. What happens if the pool of available signers contains at the time of the tx only 3?
- Why "+2" in "...Verification must be received from enough signers to accomplish the appropriate transfers from deposit addresses plus two signers to be valid."? Why not "+0"?
- Do you have a concrete, feasible idea about how B&C would be able to help regarding solving the biggest issue of NuBits (at least from my perspective): the loss of funds incurred by LPCS on NBT/BTC because of BTC volatility? Since FIAT cannot be handled per se in the system, NBT would be exposed to BTC volatility for sure.
See the following link (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/on-the-profitability-of-liquidity-provision/2007) if you would like to get some more context.
- If the trade fees in credits a percentage of the exchanged quantity or is it a fixed fee regardless of the quantity?

Tks!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: nihilnegativum on April 30, 2015, 12:14:22 PM
Interesting, crypto needs more profit-sharing projects.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on April 30, 2015, 04:40:30 PM
1. It is mentioned that the signers will receive a block reward for the service they are carrying out. Does this mean that regular Blockshare holders who are minting will be slightly more diluted by the signers, who receive an extra reward?

Signers will receive a separate reward from minters, yes. You bring up an important point, that minters and signers are separate concepts:

Quote
Minting nodes are such because they have BlockShares eligible for minting. Reputed signing nodes are such because they are capable of signing transactions on deposit addresses. A client may be neither a minting nor signing node, one or the other, or both. Furthermore, being a signing node will only be in reference to a specific non-native blockchain. So, a particular node may a Bitcoin signing node, but not a Peercoin signing node, while another node may play the role of a Bitcoin signing node, Peercoin signing node and minter.

2. Also, the signers need to give up a security deposit of Blockshares. If the signer no longer has control of these blockshares, will the person holding the security deposits continue to mint with them using a data feed, or will they not be minted with and the signer loses the minting reward from these held shares? If not, I think that is counter-productive, unless being a signer gives them a much larger reward than simply minting the usual way.

Shareholders will be able to voice their opinions through motions about how security deposits can be used, but yes it is safe to say that signers should not be punished for performing a valuable service for the network. We will expand further on this issue soon.

3. I want to make sure I understand the Blockcredit system. So shareholders will select a trustworthy custodian and vote to supply them with Blockcredits. That person will then place a sell wall at $1 on any approved exchange. The non-Bitcoin proceeds from selling these credits will be used to purchase Bitcoin. The Bitcoin will then be distributed back to shareholders as payment for providing this exchange network service.

Digging further, these Blockcredits are the only way to actually use the decentralized exchange. If you don't purchase credits then you can't trade. So let's say somebody purchases credits from a custodian. They place trades on B&C until they run out of credits and need to purchase more. In the act of trading, these Blockcredits are actually consumed or destroyed by the system, so that they no longer exist and cannot be used again. This means that as long as customers are using the B&C exchange, there will always be a constantly dwindling supply of Blockcredits. If no more Blockcredits were created by shareholders, the supply would eventually run to zero, as they're all used up trading.

If the market ever got too flooded with Blockcredits, which caused the price of the credits to drop below $1, the custodians would just need to wait and keep their sell wall in place. Everyone buying Blockcredits under $1 would be getting a great deal. Eventually though, as long as the custodian waited long enough, the Blockcredit supply would start getting lower and lower as people buy them to use on the exchange (thus getting destroyed in the process). The supply would get low enough that the price would start rising back to $1, but it would never be able to surpass it because of the sell wall in place. The shareholders would need to constantly resupply the custodians as credits are consumed in the system and the supply runs lower.

Do I understand this system correctly? If so, I think it's brilliant. I can already picture other ways to apply a credit system like this in other Peershare DAOs. There are many possible applications for this and we should develop them before others do.

Yes you have described B&C Exchange's business model very accurately, thank you for summarizing it so well. We are very enthusiastic about its simplicity, safety, and potential profitability.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on April 30, 2015, 04:46:36 PM
Interesting, crypto needs more profit-sharing projects.

We agree. With BlockShares, there will be a genuine financial incentive to hold them beyond hopeful speculation - the prospect of future Bitcoin dividends being paid directly to shareholders. 


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 30, 2015, 11:18:05 PM
In the other thread, I noticed people were just listing names of coins they support. I don't believe that will get us any important information, so I made this post...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11248387#msg11248387

If you agree, can you please add it to the first post of that thread so it will be one of the first things people read? I'm simply not interested in knowing which community has the largest amount of vocal supporters.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on April 30, 2015, 11:47:24 PM
In the other thread, I noticed people were just listing names of coins they support. I don't believe that will get us any important information, so I made this post...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11248387#msg11248387

If you agree, can you please add it to the first post of that thread so it will be one of the first things people read? I'm simply not interested in knowing which community has the largest amount of vocal supporters.

We're interested in sparking friendly discussion among the bitcointalk community about our project, not forcing users to present detailed breakdowns of their favorite cryptocurrency's merits. Your post may be perceived as unfriendly and unwelcoming, which is the opposite of what we want B&C Exchange to be.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 30, 2015, 11:57:59 PM
In the other thread, I noticed people were just listing names of coins they support. I don't believe that will get us any important information, so I made this post...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1042953.msg11248387#msg11248387

If you agree, can you please add it to the first post of that thread so it will be one of the first things people read? I'm simply not interested in knowing which community has the largest amount of vocal supporters.

We're interested in sparking friendly discussion among the bitcointalk community about our project, not forcing users to present detailed breakdowns of their favorite cryptocurrency's merits. Your post may be perceived as unfriendly and unwelcoming, which is the opposite of what we want B&C Exchange to be.

That's at least the information I want to know, but in the context of that thread's purpose I believe you're correct, so I've deleted my post.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 01, 2015, 12:01:43 AM
There are now 12 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has submitted a bid so far. If you are planning on bidding, please submit it as early as possible to ensure that you are given priority in the event of a tie bid.

The quality of questions and discussions in this thread has been fantastic so far. We appreciate everyone's interest in making B&C Exchange a reality.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: bubbletea789 on May 01, 2015, 12:49:58 AM
Do we get an email confirmation if the bid is valid or not?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 01, 2015, 03:06:11 AM
Can the BlockShare holders get dividends in thier lightweight BTC wallets? Peershares export private keys to the Peercoin satoshi wallet. I hope the BlockShare shareholders don't have to have updated BTC satoshi wallet with its monster size blockchain.

I'm certainly aware that few BlockShare holders will be interested in hosting a Bitcoin node. While the B&C Exchange client will support export to the Bitcoin reference client because it requires no additional development, other Bitcoin key export methods are needed. The difficulty is every client that can handle Bitcoin keys will have a different way of permitting adding keys to the wallet. Probably the only practical choice initially is to export Bitcoin keys to the clipboard or text file. Then the shareholder can import that to whatever Bitcoin client they choose to use. It is possible that later the B&C Exchange client will support automated export of Bitcoin keys to a number of popular wallet applications.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: bumpk1nK on May 01, 2015, 03:10:35 AM
ohh I only noticed this now, what a wonderful project. I want to be a part of this. what's the best way to do so?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: mhps on May 01, 2015, 04:08:22 AM
Probably the only practical choice initially is to export Bitcoin keys to the clipboard or text file.

I prefer to the clipboard or just display it so the user can copy. Saving to text file will leave  security risks even after the file is deleted.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 01, 2015, 04:09:33 AM
ohh I only noticed this now, what a wonderful project. I want to be a part of this. what's the best way to do so?

Hi bumpk1nK. We're glad you think our project is worthwhile, thanks for joining us here.

There are two ways to help us out and be part of the B&C Exchange project:

1) If you'd like to one day be a partial owner of B&C Exchange, meaning you would own BlockShares and receive Bitcoin dividends, you can place a bid in our ongoing auction for NuShares. Auction rules are specified in the original post. The proceeds from the auction will be used to create the protocol and user interface for B&C Exchange. When that is complete, the B&C Exchange blockchain (BlockShares) will be created as a fork of the NuShares blockchain. At the moment the B&C Exchange blockchain is created it will have the exact same shareholders as the NuShares blockchain. The B&C Exchange client will allow you to select your NuShares wallet and convert it to a BlockShares wallet.

2) If you don't want to bid in our auction, you can greatly help our project by spreading word of this announcement thread to any cryptocurrency communities you are part of. We need to raise 200,000 USD from our auction to fund development of this innovation.

If you have any questions we haven't already answered, we're happy to address them here. In the meantime, keep visiting this thread to stay up to date on any current news related to B&C Exchange development.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 01, 2015, 04:11:37 AM
Do we get an email confirmation if the bid is valid or not?

Yes we will be sending confirmations that a bid is received and valid. If you have not heard from us within 24 hours of entering your bid, please send us another message to confirm receipt.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: bumpk1nK on May 01, 2015, 04:13:39 AM
ohh I only noticed this now, what a wonderful project. I want to be a part of this. what's the best way to do so?

Hi bumpk1nK. We're glad you think our project is worthwhile, thanks for joining us here.

There are two ways to help us out and be part of the B&C Exchange project:

1) If you'd like to one day be a partial owner of B&C Exchange, meaning you would own BlockShares and receive Bitcoin dividends, you can place a bid in our ongoing auction for NuShares. Auction rules are specified in the original post. The proceeds from the auction will be used to create the protocol and user interface for B&C Exchange. When that is complete, the B&C Exchange blockchain will be created as a fork of the NuShares blockchain. At the moment the B&C Exchange blockchain is created it will have the exact same shareholders as the NuShares blockchain. The B&C Exchange client will allow you to select your NuShares wallet and convert it to a BlockShares wallet.

2) If you don't want to bid in our auction, you can greatly help our project by spreading word of this announcement thread to any cryptocurrency communities you are part of. We need to raise 200,000 USD from our auction to fund development of this innovation.

If you have any questions we haven't already answered, we're happy to address them here. In the meantime, keep visiting this thread to stay up to date on any current news related to B&C Exchange development.

I do want to help, I will see what I can do Right now I cant really afford to invest in to many offers but I will be selling some alts tonight. I have been ill and not on the forum really in a long time so I need to clean up my old holdings and maybe I will have a nuff to invest and be a part owner. I like that idea great job


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: bruter on May 01, 2015, 07:54:21 AM
Any estimation on the snapshot date of Bitcoin blockchain?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BonTonPlease on May 01, 2015, 11:27:08 AM
How many people do have access to the information about the bids that have been or will be submitted? Who are those people?
I would like to know that as certain types of market movements during that auction could likely be leading to certain conclusions.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 01, 2015, 03:52:01 PM
How many people do have access to the information about the bids that have been or will be submitted? Who are those people?
I would like to know that as certain types of market movements during that auction could likely be leading to certain conclusions.

The person or persons who control the primary email/BitMessage accounts are prohibited from placing bids and will conduct no market activities with NuShares during the auction period. We obviously want to avoid harming the fundraising of this important project.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Bisha on May 01, 2015, 06:10:12 PM
Any estimation on the snapshot date of Bitcoin blockchain?

Already asked on previous page. no eta


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: jubalix on May 01, 2015, 08:27:52 PM
So, What if I buy nushares from an exchange and send it to my local/controlled address....is that much more expensive than bidding?



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 02, 2015, 12:25:46 AM
There are now 11 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has submitted a bid so far. If you are planning on bidding, please submit it as early as possible to ensure that you are given priority in the event of a tie bid.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 02, 2015, 03:10:07 AM
Probably the only practical choice initially is to export Bitcoin keys to the clipboard or text file.

I prefer to the clipboard or just display it so the user can copy. Saving to text file will leave  security risks even after the file is deleted.

Agreed. We will display it in a way that it can be copied to the clipboard.

Perhaps in a later iteration we can make the B&C Exchange minting client also support Bitcoin as a light client so that Bitcoin balances can be viewed and transferred from it.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: bumpk1nK on May 02, 2015, 03:11:39 AM
yay man. im so happy today. i found out i will get more btc in two days so I think i will invest here not that i have the extra btc to do so.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 02, 2015, 08:55:19 PM
Has anybody here done any personal calculations like Jordan suggested? I'm really curious to see what people think, no matter how off the projections may be in the end.

Quote from: mhps
Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?

Quote from: Jordan Lee
There are two issues with creating projections. First, even back-of-envelope calculations would create informal expectations on the part of bidders that may not ever be achieved. We are keen to avoid that, just as we did with the original distribution of NuShares. Bidders should generate their own forecasts and bid (or not bid) accordingly.

The second issue is that there are simply too many dynamic variables that are controlled by shareholders and not the developers. For example, a transaction fee of 1.00 BKC could be set by shareholders per trade, for which projections could be made based on reasonable assumptions of the market share that would be taken from centralized exchanges. However, shareholders could decide to raise it to 3.00 BKC next month if that rate would still be competitive, or drop it to 0.20 BKC next month if strong competitors emerged. There is a tremendous amount of variance in projected revenue. We also don't know yet what transaction fee rates shareholders will conclude is optimal.

We would strongly encourage everyone to generate their own predictions and share them with other NuShare holders to see if others believe those projections to be based on reasonable assumptions. It would be very easy for us to generate an optimistic prediction of how shareholders will vote, but it is unlikely to be very accurate.

Edit: This is probably important in figuring this out...

Quote from: cryptog
If the trade fees in credits a percentage of the exchanged quantity or is it a fixed fee regardless of the quantity?

Quote from: Ben
Neither*. B&C will not charge commission fees on trades, only the transaction fees on the messages sent through the blockchain (charged by the byte, instead of per kilobyte like in Nu or Peercoin). The size of the fee per "trade" will have more to do with the number of signers used and the type of message being sent ("trade", "confirmation", etc.) than the amount of tokens being traded between the separate blockchains.

* Initially. It's entirely within the B&C shareholders' right to vote on a motion that requires a percentage-based or flat commission fee at some point in the future.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: mhps on May 03, 2015, 01:33:27 AM
Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?

We would strongly encourage everyone to generate their own predictions and share them with other NuShare holders to see if others believe those projections to be based on reasonable assumptions.


Assuming the "effective transaction fee per trade" is similar to centralized exchanges at 0.25%, for every $1M/day trading volume, the average revenue is $2500 per day. If 80% of it goes to dividends , then with 900M shares, dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) is

$2000 * 30 / 900,000,000 * 10,000 = $0.67 (per $1M/day trading volume)

If B&C volume is 1% of  today's total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex), divendends is $0.2/10k/mo. Reaching 10% (BTC-e) the dividends will be $2/10k/mo. Reaching 30% (Bitfinex) it will be $6.7/10k/mo.


Title: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 03, 2015, 03:18:37 AM
Can we have an estimate of how much dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) under certain assumptions? For example what if B&C volume is 1% of total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex, according to coinmarketcap) 10% (BTC-e)? 30% (Bitfinex)?

We would strongly encourage everyone to generate their own predictions and share them with other NuShare holders to see if others believe those projections to be based on reasonable assumptions.


Assuming the "effective transaction fee per trade" is similar to centralized exchanges at 0.25%, for every $1M/day trading volume, the average revenue is $2500 per day. If 80% of it goes to dividends , then with 900M shares, dividends B&C Exchange would generate (per month per 10k shares) is

$2000 * 30 / 900,000,000 * 10,000 = $0.67 (per $1M/day trading volume)

If B&C volume is 1% of  today's total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex), divendends is $0.2/10k/mo. Reaching 10% (BTC-e) the dividends will be $2/10k/mo. Reaching 30% (Bitfinex) it will be $6.7/10k/mo.

So when NuShares were first distributed, the maximum amount people could buy in a lot was 5 million shares, which cost about $9,000 for the full lot. As we know when B&C launches, shares will be given on a 1:1 ratio based on how many NuShares you own. So let's assume that there are a lot of people that bought the maximum lot amount of 5 million NuShares. These people would then eventually own 5 million shares in B&C. So in your examples, let's replace 10,000 shares with 5 million and see what the totals come out to then.

$2000 * 30 / 900,000,000 * 5,000,000 = $333 (per $1M/day trading volume) This should still be only 80% dividends like in mhps's example. That's an important point. Shareholders will be able to vote to set aside portions of the profit for anything they want to use it for.

If B&C volume is 1% of today's total BTC volume ($0.3M, size of bittrex), divendends is $100/5m/mo. Reaching 10% (BTC-e) the dividends will be $1,000/5m/mo. Reaching 30% (Bitfinex) it will be $3,350/5m/mo.

Please let me know if I screwed something up here. Math is not my strongest area. Also as said before, this was just based on today's volume. I wonder what it would be with the average volume. It also doesn't take into account the possibility that daily volume might increase over the next several years as more people get into crypto. We can't count on that of course though.


Title: Re: [Pre-ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized cryptocurrency exchange for everyone
Post by: mhps on May 03, 2015, 04:43:50 AM
Please let me know if I screwed something up here. Math is not my strongest area. Also as said before, this was just based on today's volume. I wonder what it would be with the average volume. It also doesn't take into account the possibility that daily volume might increase over the next several years as more people get into crypto. We can't count on that of course though.

I think the math is OK. The uncertainty is in severeal related areas. We have seen daily volume 10 fold of today's.
Since B&C reduces single point of failiure that centralized exchanges have against theft (hack or insider's job) so I expect more people are willing to trade often on B&C, trade larger amount, and leave their fund longer "on exchange", hence creating greater liquidity.  All these have a non-linear positive effect on trading volume. However there is a limit. B&C plan to distribute security risks to ~15 signers. It is much easier to fortify security of one centralized exchange than to have ~15 anonymous signers do it. It does seem difficult to compromize 8 of 15 signers or addresses. However there is a lot of incentive to steal from these high value online wallets owned by amateurs, if I understand the signers' deposit addresses right. If theft becomes a systemic issue, the cost will ends up  in the fee (as insurance) charged to B&C.

edit: note that the volume on centralized exchanges are mostly driven by relatively high frequency trades. The B&C exchange will be slower and there will be transaction fees charged by bitcoin network etc. So daily volume is expected to be lower due to this factor, all else being equal. The problems is "all else" are not equal.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 03, 2015, 05:29:43 AM
There are now 10 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has submitted a bid so far.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: jubalix on May 03, 2015, 08:11:46 AM
hi bumping my previous question.

Whats the diff between bidding and buying nushares on the open market?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Yurizhai on May 03, 2015, 05:16:20 PM
hi bumping my previous question.

Whats the diff between bidding and buying nushares on the open market?

Just go take a look at where you can buy NSR now, the price, and liquidity. It's much more expensive than bidding.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 03, 2015, 05:47:59 PM
hi bumping my previous question.

Whats the diff between bidding and buying nushares on the open market?

Just go take a look at where you can buy NSR now, the price, and liquidity. It's much more expensive than bidding.

Plus bidding will help the auction reach its goals.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 03, 2015, 05:59:11 PM
Plus bidding will help the auction reach its goals.

Yes, we intend on firmly sticking to our original commitments. If 200,000 USD is not raised by the close of the auction, no funds will be collected.

Our intention was to set the reserve price (0.0020 USD) well below the historical traded price of NuShares to encourage active bidding. If the B&C Exchange profitability projections we saw posted earlier are realized in the future, the value per NuShare would be much higher than this reserve price.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 03, 2015, 06:02:18 PM
If the auction meets our funding goal of $200,000, sigmike and erasmospunk have committed to developing B&C Exchange.

sigmike is a Peercoin developer and the principle NuBit developer. He has proved very effective in those roles and having him on the development team makes me very confident B&C Exchange will work as designed. When the community has a question about the inner workings of proof of stake, they ask sigmike for clarification. He is arguably the premier developer of PoS solutions.

erasmospunk has proven himself as a NuBit developer. He has also produced an outstanding Android wallet that supports many different cryptoassets and Shapeshift. Check out the great work he has done:

http://coinomi.com/ (http://coinomi.com/)

The individuals behind an organization really do make or break it. Having myself, sigmike and erasmospunk at the core of the effort to build B&C Exchange should inspire confidence in the outcome of the effort. It certainly makes me confident.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Yurizhai on May 03, 2015, 06:18:52 PM
Plus bidding will help the auction reach its goals.

Yes, we intend on firmly sticking to our original commitments. If 200,000 USD is not raised by the close of the auction, no funds will be collected.

Our intention was to set the reserve price (0.0020 USD) well below the historical traded price of NuShares to encourage active bidding. If the B&C Exchange profitability projections we saw posted earlier are realized in the future, the value per NuShare would be much higher than this reserve price.

I know you're very unlikely to give details until the auction over but I'm going to ask anyway - how is it going?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 03, 2015, 07:07:23 PM
I know you're very unlikely to give details until the auction over but I'm going to ask anyway - how is it going?

Yes, we will not release any information about the progress of the auction until the deadline date has passed. This is done to ensure complete confidentiality for bidders.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 03, 2015, 08:51:21 PM
I know you're very unlikely to give details until the auction over but I'm going to ask anyway - how is it going?

Yes, we will not release any information about the progress of the auction until the deadline date has passed. This is done to ensure complete confidentiality for bidders.

How about this question. Would you like to see a lot more promotion? I'm planning on doing this anyway by the way.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 03, 2015, 09:02:05 PM
How about this question. Would you like to see a lot more promotion? I'm planning on doing this anyway by the way.

More promotion could possibly lead to more funds being raised in the auction, so yes we hope NuShareholders choose to promote this auction as widely as possible.

We are especially interested in appealing to the Bitcoin community. B&C Exchange's combination of design features - including safe decentralized Bitcoin trading with a familiar centralized website layout, Bitcoin dividends, and free BlockShares for Bitcoin holders - should be very attractive to them.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 04, 2015, 05:38:16 AM
There are now 9 days left in the auction. We are rapidly approaching 10,000 views on this announcement thread!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 04, 2015, 06:34:25 AM
We are rapidly approaching 10,000 views on this announcement thread!

I noticed that. Hopefully it speeds up. More people knowing about it can only be better for the auction results.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: jubalix on May 04, 2015, 10:08:56 AM
I dont get this.

If it cheaper to bid for nushares than buy them on the open market,

who is holding such large volumes of nushares.

how can we even know the bid price?.....

things tend to be arbitraged out somehow....

I really don't grok something here.....

Is there a min bid?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: mhps on May 04, 2015, 02:18:17 PM
how can we even know the bid price?.....

things tend to be arbitraged out somehow....

I really don't grok something here.....

Is there a min bid?

Read the OP. The minimum acceptable bid is $0.002/NSR, if that is what you asked. There are only a couple of milliion NSR for sale on the market.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: hankrules on May 04, 2015, 05:06:56 PM
how can we even know the bid price?.....

things tend to be arbitraged out somehow....

I really don't grok something here.....

Is there a min bid?

Read the OP. The minimum acceptable bid is $0.002/NSR, if that is what you asked. There are only a couple of milliion NSR for sale on the market.

Also, it's a blind auction, so we don't know what the value is on that side of the wall.
Also, there there is a minimum buy of $1000, so smaller holders wouldn't be in a position to dump and bid for cheaper shares.  It's actually a pretty elegant way to do it.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 05, 2015, 02:16:21 AM
There are now 8 days left in the auction. This is a reminder that the earliest received bids will receive priority in the event of a tie at the lowest-accepted bid.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 05, 2015, 07:57:28 PM
A nice comment from "MasterofDisaster" on the Nu forum: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/261

Quote
The announcement at bitcointalk.org is currently on page 4 of the project development threads if sorted by views in descending order (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=12.120;sort=views;desc).
Taking into account that the thread is very young it has received an impressive amount of attention!

Most threads that have that much or even more views are much older.
Only the mercury exchange thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946174.0) can almost compete with the ratio of views per days of existence.

If we might derive one thing from my randomly picked and not in any way representative selection it is: people are interested in decentralized exchanges and we know why ;)

The time has come for decentralized exchanges!



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Bisha on May 05, 2015, 11:07:40 PM
say, for example $175,000 are raised instead of the expected $200,000, will you still go on with this project or does it necessarily have to reach the $200,000?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 05, 2015, 11:19:31 PM
say, for example $175,000 are raised instead of the expected $200,000, will you still go on with this project or does it necessarily have to reach the $200,000?

Our commitments in the original post do not allow for any flexibility unfortunately. If 200,000 USD are not bidded, no funds will be collected. It is the amount required for us to be reasonably confident that a working platform can be developed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: buzzdave on May 06, 2015, 12:47:07 AM
More awesome from Jordan Lee and the NuBits dev team!

I will most certainly put my BlockShares to work minting.  Looking forward to acting as a reputed signer as well as to run an exchange node for all my favorite cryptos!

B&C has the potential to quickly be established as the worlds biggest (and fully distributed) crypto exchange.

Great stuff guys.

Dave Carlson, CEO
megabigpower.com


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Uptrenda on May 06, 2015, 04:34:23 AM
In reading your white paper I think your order book is very well thought out and that it will work well in practice, however I have some serious concerns regarding your proposed exchange mechanism for moving the coins. As I understand it, you're using a distributed oracle approach for moving the coins. This is the very same approach taken by the now defunct Coinsigner, Metalair, NXT Multigateway, and several other projects who proposed to use multi-signature to move coins. The biggest problem with this design is it doesn't actually solve the trust problem. Yes, you now have considerably more points that can fail and in theory it should be harder to do so, but all you're basically doing is moving the problem around instead of actually solving it. For example: how are the signers selected? If the signers are randomly chosen then this is really no different to entrusting your money to a stranger. I mean if anyone can participate and if the system were anonymous or pseudo-anonymous then you don't know how many signers are controlled by one party. You say that reputation is the solution but it is not. Silk Road and other anonymous market places also had reputation systems to curve scamming and it was never 100% effective. Why? Because a signer can still gain reputation and use their influence to strike at an opportune time. They might create relationships with other signers and then plan an exit when their services are being used to protect substantial assets or maybe just create hundreds of signers to gain a majority control (actually, isn't this similar to Stellar?) - so this is a hard trust model to defend.

How do you gain reputation? When the system first launches there will be no signers with a reputation and all initial users would be gambling - i.e. the trust model would effectively be no better than a centralized exchange. You say there are enough signers where collusion and failure aren't a problem but this isn't a mathematically provable property. It's really just an assumption and using multi-signature to add more nodes isn't a magic bullet that will solve that. Consider Mercury Exchange, for instance. Mercury uses hash-locked smart contracts to solve the trust problem. It's an approach that will be entirely trustless when transaction malleability is phased out and best of all: it won't require a third-party to mediate. But your solution on the other hand relies on the assumption that enough oracles won't be corrupted for the multi-sig to hold which isn't a provable assumption; At least with Mercury you can reason exactly about the outcomes.

There's also something you said which is quite concerning: if enough signers go offline then the money can't be moved. That's really bad. So now you have a potentially insecure and unreliable financial system which you can't prove is secure or reliable since its based on elements entirely outside your control.

Improvements to the process.

I can think of improvements to most of these problems although I still think the overall design is bad even if it could work.

  • If the owner were to control enough keys in the multi-signature then even if all the oracles were to be hacked the attacker would lack the leverage to steal coins  (Your current design gives 100% of the power to an unknown party when this is strictly unnecessary.)
  • It is possible to construct owner keys so some can be lost and recovered from the other keys. This would add more reliability for the user as they could store the keys across multiple devices, use multi-factor authentication, and a fault on one device wouldn't make their funds irrecoverable.
  • You can use time-locked encryption to create a scheme which is 100% reliable even if all the oracles were to simultaneously explode, losing all keys. This would solve the reliability problem.
  • If you're planning to have open participation for the signers then consider having only a subset of these unknown oracles used to protect the multi-signature deposits. A more typical trust model where you use legitimate companies like Reality Keys to function as the oracles would probably be more secure than having a pseudo-anonymous open system where anyone can join.

My paper (http://www.uptrenda.com/uptrenda.pdf) covers most of these topics so feel free to borrow ideas, I don't mind.  Relevant sections for your design are the Green Address, Contract Output, and Time-locked encryption sections.

Outro

tl;dr; Reputation systems are a terrible idea for financial systems. Your design will work but it is potentially insecure and I think it can be substantially improved.





Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: cryptog1 on May 06, 2015, 11:58:28 AM

  • If you're planning to have open participation for the signers then consider having only a subset of these unknown oracles used to protect the multi-signature deposits. A more typical trust model where you use legitimate companies like Reality Keys to function as the oracles would probably be more secure than having a pseudo-anonymous open system where anyone can join.


What happens is the gov decides to shut down Reality Keys?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: mhps on May 06, 2015, 02:07:37 PM
When the system first launches there will be no signers with a reputation and all initial users would be gambling - i.e. the trust model would effectively be no better than a centralized exchange.

B&C not only plans to get seed funding from Nushares it's also going to get something money can hardly buy -- the Nushare holders that is familiar with the voting process (been going on for a half years and ~30 motions voted (https://discuss.nubits.com/c/nushares/motions)), and has some psudoanonymous members whose reputation is reasonablly established in the community. The community has some members from the Peercoin community, one of the oldest active cryptocoin communities. I think B&C is banking on old familiar members being at least the initial signers. (How they get $20k deposit is another matter).

Quote
if enough signers go offline then the money can't be moved.

Since the signers don't actually sign in person, they just set up some robot servers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11192249#msg11192249) to do it. I suppose it is not difficult to setup multiple instances of signing "robot" to increase availability.

btw I imagine this could even be used to randomly deploy / destroy signing bots so that the set up is also resistant to tracers/attackers.

edit to add: peerbox (https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=2932.0) -- pre-made secure operating system for minting Peercoin on a RaspberryPi (or a virtual machine instance) might be a good fit for making signing bots.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 06, 2015, 05:35:32 PM
In reading your white paper I think your order book is very well thought out and that it will work well in practice, however I have some serious concerns regarding your proposed exchange mechanism for moving the coins.[...] The biggest problem with this design is it doesn't actually solve the trust problem. Yes, you now have considerably more points that can fail and in theory it should be harder to do so, but all you're basically doing is moving the problem around instead of actually solving it. For example: how are the signers selected? If the signers are randomly chosen then this is really no different to entrusting your money to a stranger. I mean if anyone can participate and if the system were anonymous or pseudo-anonymous then you don't know how many signers are controlled by one party.[...]
I agree that using reputed signers is not ideal as they are a part of the design that might fail. Multi-signature allows for almost half of the signers to fail before things get nasty, but still the signers are one of the weaker points.
With regards to the reliability of the signers - that can be taken care of, if you look at the BCE design paper (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf), page 2 "Summary of Architecture", second paragraph:
Quote
Reputed signers may place a security deposit of funds held by other reputed signers, typically in BlockShares.
This is causing a feedback between bad behaviour of signers and their property.
You might argue it's still possible that all the different signers could collude to a degree that is sufficient to steal funds and get the security deposit back - unlikely, but possible.
If a multi-signature deposit is considered not secure enough, it could then be considered to have signers burn the security deposit. They would only be able to get it back if they did behave like it's expected from _reputed_ signers ;)
...that could harm the desire to become a signer, though...

Consider Mercury Exchange, for instance. Mercury uses hash-locked smart contracts to solve the trust problem. It's an approach that will be entirely trustless when transaction malleability is phased out and best of all: it won't require a third-party to mediate. But your solution on the other hand relies on the assumption that enough oracles won't be corrupted for the multi-sig to hold which isn't a provable assumption; At least with Mercury you can reason exactly about the outcomes.
As far as I understand it, transaction malleability is not phased out yet and hence that approach doesn't work yet.
The BCE approach can work, albeit with drawbacks.
I don't know whether or not the hash-locked smart contract approach is compatible with the BCE design, but if it is, I can very well think of a motion that replaces the signers with smart contracts.
Signers might trade the loss of income off for the chance to increase the price of their BlockShares before they vote in favour of that motion.
Anyway I could imagine such a motion to pass, because it would harden the business model of BCE and that should have some value for the owners of BCE.

There's also something you said which is quite concerning: if enough signers go offline then the money can't be moved. That's really bad. So now you have a potentially insecure and unreliable financial system which you can't prove is secure or reliable since its based on elements entirely outside your control.
This is not meant to be a solution, but a recommendation: as with centralized exchanges it helps keeping control over the coins, if they are not stored at the exchange. It might look convenient to store them in a considerably safe BCE deposit address, but they might be safer in the owners wallet.
I consider BCE by design more secure than a centralized exchange, but we all know that there's no perfect security in this world.
There have been enough exchange defaults that have taught not to store coins at exchanges.
Plus they are called "exchanges" and note "stores" ;)

Improvements to the process.

I can think of improvements to most of these problems although I still think the overall design is bad even if it could work.

  • If the owner were to control enough keys in the multi-signature then even if all the oracles were to be hacked the attacker would lack the leverage to steal coins  (Your current design gives 100% of the power to an unknown party when this is strictly unnecessary.)
[...]
[/list]
If you give the owner enough keys in the multi-signature to be safe even if all oracles were to be hacked - what would the owner stop from withdrawing the funds?

A variation of that idea would help defending against the "enough signers go offline then the money can't be moved" scenario, though.
Say you have a 6-of-15 multi-signature deposit address and 6 keys are in the hands of the owner.
The signers can still do their job and if they are offline, the owner can still access the funds.
But that would be possible for the owner even if all signers are online...


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 06, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
As I understand it, you're using a distributed oracle approach for moving the coins. This is the very same approach taken by the now defunct Coinsigner, Metalair, NXT Multigateway, and several other projects who proposed to use multi-signature to move coins.

I'm not familar with Metalair but I do see an organization called MetaLair.org whose business is outside the scope of cryptoasset exchange.

Coinsigner claims to be creating a dispute resolution or escrow service using 2 of 3 multisig where Coinsigner has one of the three keys. I don't see how it has any relevance to an automated cryptoasset exchange like B&C Exchange.

Multigateway appears to essentially be synonymous with SuperNET, which has some similarities to B&C Exchange but also some important differences. They are using three static multisig signers in SuperNET whereas B&C Exchange can dynamically size the number and identity of signers without any centralized control or software updates. Furthermore, SuperNET makes use of proxy assets (such mgwBTC) that introduce some difficulties. If you want to trade Bitcoin for Litecoin, for example, you must deposit Bitcoin which then entitles you to an equivalent quantity of mgwBTC which is traded for mgwLTC which entitle you to receive LTC on deposit. The supply of mgwBTC is fixed, so the number of mgwBTC will not equal the number of BTC on deposit. Excess mgwBTC that does not represent deposited BTC could be sold fraudulently, for instance. B&C Exchange does not use proxy assets and is not exposed to any of the problems and extra complications associated with it.

tl;dr; Coinsigner, MetaLair or NXT Multigateway have modest to zero relevance to B&C Exchange. Nothing that has been done by them indicates there is a problem with the design of B&C Exchange.



The biggest problem with this design is it doesn't actually solve the trust problem. Yes, you now have considerably more points that can fail and in theory it should be harder to do so, but all you're basically doing is moving the problem around instead of actually solving it.

Peer to peer financial solutions establish trust by distributing responsibility among many parties and requiring transparency, consensus and verification of transactions by many parties. B&C Exchange employs these proven approaches to establishing trust.


For example: how are the signers selected? If the signers are randomly chosen then this is really no different to entrusting your money to a stranger. I mean if anyone can participate and if the system were anonymous or pseudo-anonymous then you don't know how many signers are controlled by one party. You say that reputation is the solution but it is not. Silk Road and other anonymous market places also had reputation systems to curve scamming and it was never 100% effective. Why? Because a signer can still gain reputation and use their influence to strike at an opportune time. They might create relationships with other signers and then plan an exit when their services are being used to protect substantial assets or maybe just create hundreds of signers to gain a majority control (actually, isn't this similar to Stellar?) - so this is a hard trust model to defend.

Signers are not chosen randomly. They are chosen by BlockShare holders in a dynamic fashion. Each time a BlockShare holder finds a block, they can upvote or downvote 3 reputed signers. The protocol only selects top reputed signers (those with the most points).

Reputation is a basis for most economic activity so there is no shortage of precedent here. It usually works, but not always. The system is designed to gracefully handle multiple simultaneous failures of reputed signers without loss of funds or disruption of service. In the case of an 8 of 15 multisig deposit address, the network can handle up to 7 rogue or malfunctioning signers without loss of funds. That is a very broad margin of safety for errors and malicious intent.

How do you gain reputation? When the system first launches there will be no signers with a reputation and all initial users would be gambling - i.e. the trust model would effectively be no better than a centralized exchange. You say there are enough signers where collusion and failure aren't a problem but this isn't a mathematically provable property.

Top reputed signers are likely to be established and well known pseudonymous members of the community. This means a single signer is unlikely to gain control of multiple top reputed signer identities.


Consider Mercury Exchange, for instance. Mercury uses hash-locked smart contracts to solve the trust problem. It's an approach that will be entirely trustless when transaction malleability is phased out and best of all: it won't require a third-party to mediate. But your solution on the other hand relies on the assumption that enough oracles won't be corrupted for the multi-sig to hold which isn't a provable assumption; At least with Mercury you can reason exactly about the outcomes.

It has already been pointed out that transaction malleability is a problem for Mercury's approach. It is also important that no one has a financial stake in promoting Mercury and that NuBit shareholders will provide deep liquidity on B&C Exchange but don't have the same incentives to support Mercury. I hope to have time to provide a detailed comparison of Mercury and B&C Exchange. Briefly, Mercury is an important and noble project but it doesn't have the same prospects for widespread adoption and commercial success as B&C Exchange.


There's also something you said which is quite concerning: if enough signers go offline then the money can't be moved. That's really bad. So now you have a potentially insecure and unreliable financial system which you can't prove is secure or reliable since its based on elements entirely outside your control.

Reliability of a reputed signer is perhaps their most important attribute and shareholders will upvote and downvote signers accordingly. Signers who convincingly demonstrate reliability will be upvoted (and receive income) and signers who are less than perfect will be eliminated as top reputed signers quickly. As explained earlier in this post, there is a high degree of fault tolerance (up to 7 of 15 signers can go offline without preventing funds from being unavailable in the case of an 8 of 15 deposit address).


I will address your suggested improvements later.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 07, 2015, 02:25:11 AM
Ben voiced the following concerns about the practicality of shareholders upvoting or downvoting reputed signers here:

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/268

and here:

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/270

Quote
I still have a hard time believing that the reputation system will be that easy to manage in practice.

There's a huge amount of overhead required to maintain trusted signers that will fall (rightfully) on the shareholders. A large amount of automation will be required to make it something that is more than just a bunch of "rubber stamp" votes.

This is the part that concerns me, not finding the signers themselves, but providing shareholders with enough information at the right times to make informed decisions about who to upvote/downvote.

Connecting actual performance metrics of signatories to that flow of information is going to be very challenging using the blockchain as a data transport mechanism. That is, at least until third-party data processing services start to arrive.

Exercise: Mentally scale trading traffic up to 10,000/per day and try to imagine ways that your average voting shareholder is going to be able to keep up.


From my design paper (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf):

Quote
The deposit address request will then be broadcast and the deposit address will be displayed in
the local client. Reputed signers who have a key to sign the multisig address will broadcast a
signed acknowledgement to be placed on the blockchain with a fee that they have received the
deposit address request (using their key for the deposit address, not their reputed address).

The number of acknowledgements received will be displayed in the client next to the deposit
address. Deposit address requests should be stored in the appropriate wallet of all reputed
signers using the addmultisigaddress RPC. Once the deposit address request is broadcast and
an acceptable number of acknowledgements have been received, the user can feel comfortable
depositing funds to the multisig address. Discovering which reputed signers failed to
acknowledge should be easy so they can be appropriately downvoted.

This means the blockchain contains all the information needed to determine whether reputed signers have properly performed their job and how quickly. It is quite easy to construct an RPC method returning how many times every signer has failed to sign a deposit address request acknowledgement within the last x number of blocks. I expect this will be displayed in a very readable format in block explorer websites and other sources of network information. The time (in blocks) for acknowledgement will also be available in the blockchain and could be similarly displayed.

Collecting, displaying and understanding summary information about a signer's performance isn't hard at all. It will be as simple as 'signer Bob failed to sign 4 times in the last 30 days and took an average of 0.0547 blocks to sign' displayed in a table in the block explorer website.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 07, 2015, 02:38:26 AM
There are now 6 days left in the auction. If you would like to place a bid on NuShares and BlockShares, please do so as soon as possible. We will not accept bids past the deadline.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 07, 2015, 02:57:23 AM
mhps makes these observations here:

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/271

Quote
Compensation for all the deposit for opportunity cost and security insurance (funds always in hot wallets) is not trivial. So I guess the operational cost of B&C is not much smaller than a centralized exchange.

If the deposit is held in BlockShares, the opportunity cost is equal the value of BlockShares that could have been minted, which is about 2% per year. Shareholders can require the deposit to be whatever size makes the most sense in each case, which could be zero. It may be that if a highly trusted person, such as myself, would be accepted as a signer with no deposit.

While funds are held in connected wallets that are not encrypted, they are actually much more safe than is typically the case with cold storage. For instance, BTER and Excoin both had their BTC cold wallets cleaned out recently because they moved the contents to the hot wallet without understanding something was amiss. So it is clear cold wallet funds are vulnerable. However, due to the multisig nature of deposits in B&C Exchange, in the case of an 8 of 15 multisig deposit addresses 8 wallets would have to be simultaneously compromised. Signers are unlikely to have a static IP address like centralized exchanges and they only communicate indirectly through network broadcast, so it is very difficult to find any attack surface even for a single signer.

Therefore, we can expect the cost of operation to be a tiny fraction of the costs incurred by centralized exchanges, with a theft risk that is dramatically lower as well. This cost advantage will translate into shareholder dividends and profits.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 07, 2015, 03:16:05 AM
Improvements to the process.

  • You can use time-locked encryption to create a scheme which is 100% reliable even if all the oracles were to simultaneously explode, losing all keys. This would solve the reliability problem.

My paper (http://www.uptrenda.com/uptrenda.pdf) covers most of these topics so feel free to borrow ideas, I don't mind.  Relevant sections for your design are the Green Address, Contract Output, and Time-locked encryption sections.


I will take a look at the time-locked encryption section of your paper. The idea is likely a feasible way to transfer deposited funds to a user's withdrawal address after a user defined period of time, even in the unlikely case that most reputed signers were unavailable to transfer funds. It is a great idea that would increase the safety of funds on B&C Exchange substantially.

Thank you.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 07, 2015, 03:24:16 AM
Maybe you should add the countdown timer to the thread title now, since we're getting down to the final days. It's possible some people know about this thread, but haven't yet had the time to go through it. Seeing the countdown in the title should help create some urgency.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: BCExchange on May 07, 2015, 03:37:47 AM
Maybe you should add the countdown timer to the tread title now, since we're getting down to the final days. It's possible some people know about this tread, but haven't yet had the time to go through it. Seeing the countdown in the title should help create some urgency.

Good idea! The announcement title has now been updated.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: mhps on May 07, 2015, 04:31:05 AM
If the deposit is held in BlockShares, the opportunity cost is equal the value of BlockShares that could have been minted, which is about 2% per year.

I think users generally would want the deposit to be in the currency of the pair which the signer candidate is to sign. For example a signer signing NBT/BTC would need BTC deposit, as Blockshare deposit would have varying values in BTC.

With BTC prices fluctuating so much, many people could think there is a 50% or more risk of value if thier BTC is locked up for a year. Just look at the rates Nu LPCs are charging, more than half of which is exchange rate cost. Those who deposit in Nubits or any accepted assets pegged to fiat would have less worry. So the confidence in Nubits might find its way into B&C cost.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: Uptrenda on May 07, 2015, 05:09:21 AM
...

Agreed. It's probably impossible to make a security model that's perfect but I can't argue that this approach [of having multiple signers] is safer than a single signer (if the signers are established properly in my opinion.)

Quote
If you give the owner enough keys in the multi-signature to be safe even if all oracles were to be hacked - what would the owner stop from withdrawing the funds?

I don't know the full details of the B & C design. I was operating under the assumption that the multi-signature was being used by the signers to move cryptocurrencies between users. I am not familiar with Peercoin, Nushares, or half of what's being discussed here so please forgive my ignorance, but assuming this proposal is being used to move cryptocurrencies between users then my idea is basically this:

T of N multi-signature where the owner O has access to less than T keys and the oracles S collectively never have more than T keys between them so that any combination of O + S keys is always required to move coins. Consider this scheme for example: 4 of 6 where the owner has control over 3 of the keys. He now has majority leverage over the multi-signature yet he lacks the leverage to be able to arbitrary move coins and hence he can't double spend the deposit. The advantage to this approach is it can scale to multiple oracles for fault tolerance but the owner doesn't have to rely on the integrity of those oracles because the leverage in the multi-signature ensures it is impossible to move funds without also requiring the owner's leverage (since he controls at least > N - T keys.) Thus, if the oracles are ever hacked it doesn't matter because the owner still has a say in the overall security- a huge advantage.

If you were to apply this to the B & C design (and forgive me if none of this is applicable - I did admit I wasn't an expert on your technology) you could scale up this scheme to something like 12 of 15 where the owner has 5 of those keys and the oracles have 10. This scheme would allow for multiple failures of either the owner or oracles while still requiring both parties to cooperate - and the idea could be further adapted so even more oracles could fail. To add more reliability on top of this system you can use time-locked encryption to have a subset of the oracle keys recoverable at a future date such that the owner can always independently recover the deposit even if all the oracles fail.

Unfortunately, time-locked encryption still requires trusting that the owner of the time-lock set up the lock reliably as I haven't been able to think of a way to have verifiable time-locked encryption since that would probably require revealing the contents anyway. But the software developers could be responsible for doing this and rotating the time-locks which wouldn't be that terrible since running a software's code is kind of a form of trust anyway and plus if the time-locked keys were ever used before the time-lock expired then this would imply that the developer's messed up and saved the key so the time-locked provider is cryptographically accountable for misuse. The only real problem I see with this scheme is the upper limit on p2sh multi-sig although you could get around this with some kind of additive or threshold ECDSA scheme - the main idea here being leverage.

A variation of that idea would help defending against the "enough signers go offline then the money can't be moved" scenario, though.
Say you have a 6-of-15 multi-signature deposit address and 6 keys are in the hands of the owner.
The signers can still do their job and if they are offline, the owner can still access the funds.
But that would be possible for the owner even if all signers are online...


I'm not sure I understand this. If the owner had 6 keys then he can spend the deposit any time he wants. Since I mentioned I wasn't familiar with the B & C design - maybe this is what you want?

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Peer to peer financial solutions establish trust by distributing responsibility among many parties and requiring transparency, consensus and verification of transactions by many parties. B&C Exchange employs these proven approaches to establishing trust.

What about Bitcoin?

Quote
Signers are not chosen randomly. They are chosen by BlockShare holders in a dynamic fashion. Each time a BlockShare holder finds a block, they can upvote or downvote 3 reputed signers. The protocol only selects top reputed signers (those with the most points).

Do the BlockShare holders do this manually or does the software do this?

Quote
Reputation is a basis for most economic activity so there is no shortage of precedent here. It usually works, but not always. The system is designed to gracefully handle multiple simultaneous failures of reputed signers without loss of funds or disruption of service. In the case of an 8 of 15 multisig deposit address, the network can handle up to 7 rogue or malfunctioning signers without loss of funds. That is a very broad margin of safety for errors and malicious intent.

That's true but this isn't really the same thing. In the real world businesses operate with transparency under a legal jurisdiction. They can sue or be sued and trying to maintain a positive reputation is just a result of having these liabilities. What consequences are there for pseudo-anonymous signers if they misbehave? It was mentioned before there was a security deposit for the signers so there is an economic incentive (how large relative to their influence?) to not misbehave but the fact still remains that there are precedents why this approach is ineffective. Silk Road used a similar trust model to the one you're proposing and scammers were still rampant, security deposit or not.

Another major problem I see with the security deposits is a well-funded adversary can just burn a ton of money to gain majority signer control in the beginning which could be financially advantageous if they anticipate a large volume of future trades. This is yet another reason why I think a lack of transparency for the signer's identity is a bad idea.

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Top reputed signers are likely to be established and well known pseudonymous members of the community. This means a single signer is unlikely to gain control of multiple top reputed signer identities.

What basis do the BlockShare holders have to judge the integrity of a signer if there's no real world identity or consequences attached to the signer? This also doesn't address how the system is seeded with reputed signers in the beginning when there are no established reputations.

Quote
It has already been pointed out that transaction malleability is a problem for Mercury's approach. It is also important that no one has a financial stake in promoting Mercury and that NuBit shareholders will provide deep liquidity on B&C Exchange but don't have the same incentives to support Mercury. I hope to have time to provide a detailed comparison of Mercury and B&C Exchange. Briefly, Mercury is an important and noble project but it doesn't have the same prospects for widespread adoption and commercial success as B&C Exchange.

I know you're confident but being humble is good too. How do you know Mercury doesn't have the same prospects for widespread adoption or commercial success as B & C? They have a simpler exchange algorithm than you do and their software is already functional, plus - they charge zero trade fees. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss your competition even if you do seem to have a better incentivisation model. (They have also already fixed the TX malleability issue I raised with a temporary multi-signature approach not unlike your own.)

Quote
Reliability of a reputed signer is perhaps their most important attribute and shareholders will upvote and downvote signers accordingly. Signers who convincingly demonstrate reliability will be upvoted (and receive income) and signers who are less than perfect will be eliminated as top reputed signers quickly. As explained earlier in this post, there is a high degree of fault tolerance (up to 7 of 15 signers can go offline without preventing funds from being unavailable in the case of an 8 of 15 deposit address).

I agree that it will work but I still maintain that the signers ought to be as transparent as any real world business for their identities (and thus their reputations) to have any weight. And like I mentioned earlier: how is reputation seeded in the beginning when there are no reputations present? You're essentially going to have to use some variation of what I said anyway to seed the trust hierarchies which honestly isn't that bad so long as any relationships are explicitly stated. Other than that, I wish you the best of luck with the rest of this fund raiser and sorry if this came off a bit harshly.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: cryptog1 on May 07, 2015, 06:25:30 AM
Another set of additional questions, if you do not mind:

- What would be the main difference between B&C and a smart contract-based decentralized exchange if ever the latter is possible?
- Can we increase easily the number of signers required and number of signers? Currently designed I understand that it is  8 out of 15. Any particular reason for this pair?
- How could a trusted signer increase the speed of signing a deposit request message if he or she wanted to?

Tks.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 07, 2015, 09:41:56 AM
If you give the owner enough keys in the multi-signature to be safe even if all oracles were to be hacked - what would the owner stop from withdrawing the funds?

I don't know the full details of the B & C design. I was operating under the assumption that the multi-signature was being used by the signers to move cryptocurrencies between users. I am not familiar with Peercoin, Nushares, or half of what's being discussed here so please forgive my ignorance, but assuming this proposal is being used to move cryptocurrencies between users then my idea is basically this:

T of N multi-signature where the owner O has access to less than T keys and the oracles S collectively never have more than T keys between them so that any combination of O + S keys is always required to move coins. Consider this scheme for example: 4 of 6 where the owner has control over 3 of the keys. He now has majority leverage over the multi-signature yet he lacks the leverage to be able to arbitrary move coins and hence he can't double spend the deposit. The advantage to this approach is it can scale to multiple oracles for fault tolerance but the owner doesn't have to rely on the integrity of those oracles because the leverage in the multi-signature ensures it is impossible to move funds without also requiring the owner's leverage (since he controls at least > N - T keys.) Thus, if the oracles are ever hacked it doesn't matter because the owner still has a say in the overall security- a huge advantage.
[...]
I wouldn't dare to say that I have understood the details of the design in full. This is one of the reasons why I appreciate discussing it!

While your proposed solution would give the owner control over the deposits, I see significant drawbacks:
  • The owner is turned to a signer who needs to be online to execute orders because the owner's keys are required to move the funds. By current design a customer can go offline after an order has been successfully placed.
  • A customer needs to take care of the safety of the multi-sig keys (in addition to the safety of the crypto wallets, but in difference the wallets' safety can't be done with a one-time backup, can it?); I can imagine things go pear-shaped on customers side leading to a total loss of the deposits.
  • The owner only needs to collude with one (or a few) reputed signers to withdraw the deposit instead of transferring it to a business partner who assumed to make an exchange at B&C
  • It creates an attack scenario in which a "reputed" signer is (successfully!) selling a huge amount of crypto and doesn't transfer them to the buyer's address, instead withdrawing that huge amount after having received the bought crypto.
    If the gain from such an act outweighs the value of the security deposit, it's game theoretical a good deal, albeit horrible for the exchange and its customers.

This attack is only possible if order execution, or more precisely, transfer of funds of the exchanging parties are not handled in an atomic fashion. I'm not sure whether I understand the design in that matter properly.
Trying to increase security by raising an owner's control over the own funds creates backlashes which might effectively reduce the security for each owner.

T of N multi-signature where the owner O has access to zero keys and the oracles S collectively all T keys seems to be more secure in terms of collusion and single points of failure.

A variation of that idea would help defending against the "enough signers go offline then the money can't be moved" scenario, though.
Say you have a 6-of-15 multi-signature deposit address and 6 keys are in the hands of the owner.
The signers can still do their job and if they are offline, the owner can still access the funds.
But that would be possible for the owner even if all signers are online...
I'm not sure I understand this. If the owner had 6 keys then he can spend the deposit any time he wants. Since I mentioned I wasn't familiar with the B & C design - maybe this is what you want?
This is the opposite of what anybody doing business should want ;)
I only wanted to carry out why it's hard to improve the security for an owner without creating overall drawbacks.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: Uptrenda on May 07, 2015, 10:00:06 AM
This has actually been an excellent discussion and I've learned a lot. I kind of want to keep this going now but I feel like I'm hijacking your thread. Do you guys mind if I post some more questions I might have tomorrow?


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 07, 2015, 10:32:23 AM
This has actually been an excellent discussion and I've learned a lot. I kind of want to keep this going now but I feel like I'm hijacking your thread. Do you guys mind if I post some more questions I might have tomorrow?

Ask anything you want. Discussing potential flaws and how to remedy them can only lead to a better product in the end. :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 07, 2015, 10:35:12 AM
This has actually been an excellent discussion and I've learned a lot. I kind of want to keep this going now but I feel like I'm hijacking your thread. Do you guys mind if I post some more questions I might have tomorrow?

I can only speak for myself...
It has been a pleasure so far reading this thread and trying to get behind B&C and decentralized exchanges in general.
I'd be happy to see more questions, answers and discussions going on, for it will help people understand how B&C is designed and what are the challenges for designing a decentralized exchange are.

The amount of views of the Mercury Exchange thread and this very thread express a high demand for decentralized exchanges.
I consider any on-topic discussion useful.

I'm anxious for learning whether the time-locked encryption approach can be incorporated into the B&C design to provide a fail-safe way for getting deposits back in case too many reputed signers disappear!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 08, 2015, 12:30:32 AM
This has actually been an excellent discussion and I've learned a lot. I kind of want to keep this going now but I feel like I'm hijacking your thread. Do you guys mind if I post some more questions I might have tomorrow?

Yes, please do. Our goal is to create the most robust decentralized exchange possible, so all comments and questions are welcomed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 08, 2015, 12:32:17 AM
There are now 5 days left in the auction. As of the time of this post, NuShares are trading for 0.0028 USD each on the open market. Our reserve price for this auction is 0.0020 USD each.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 08, 2015, 05:50:02 AM
I agree that it will work but I still maintain that the signers ought to be as transparent as any real world business for their identities (and thus their reputations) to have any weight.

There are certainly advantages to that approach. It is something shareholders can debate and decide on a case by case basis. The protocol only requires that reputed signers be identified by a BlockCredit and BlockShare address, so the system is flexible in permitting almost no information or a wealth of information about a reputed signer.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: JordanLee on May 08, 2015, 06:42:29 PM
If the deposit is held in BlockShares, the opportunity cost is equal the value of BlockShares that could have been minted, which is about 2% per year.

I think users generally would want the deposit to be in the currency of the pair which the signer candidate is to sign. For example a signer signing NBT/BTC would need BTC deposit, as Blockshare deposit would have varying values in BTC.

With BTC prices fluctuating so much, many people could think there is a 50% or more risk of value if thier BTC is locked up for a year. Just look at the rates Nu LPCs are charging, more than half of which is exchange rate cost. Those who deposit in Nubits or any accepted assets pegged to fiat would have less worry. So the confidence in Nubits might find its way into B&C cost.

I'm not sure I understand why shareholders might want the security deposit asset to be the same as the signing asset. It is also likely that most reputed signers will sign for many asset types.

Placing a security deposit in NuBits makes sense from the perspective that it will have a stable value. Which asset is used depends mostly on reputed signer preference, but shareholders may have something to say about it as well. On a technical level, any supported asset type could be used for a security deposit.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: fatbitcoinfan on May 08, 2015, 06:51:48 PM
Another set of additional questions, if you do not mind:

- What would be the main difference between B&C and a smart contract-based decentralized exchange if ever the latter is possible?

The latter wouldn't need the trusted signers. That would remove the need for a lot of B&C's infrastructure. There'd be no nominations or voting and you wouldn't even need shares or dividends. It could be done without a fee, apart from the coin transaction fees. There'd be no exchange operators, so there'd be no opportunity to make a business out of creating and running it.

Quote
- Can we increase easily the number of signers required and number of signers? Currently designed I understand that it is  8 out of 15. Any particular reason for this pair?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that bitcoin and its clones won't allow you to have messages longer than a certain size when you want to spend a coin. If the coin is in a multisig address, you need lots of signatures to be able to spend it but then you hit the size limit. I think 8 out of 15 is pretty much as large as you can get.

Quote
- How could a trusted signer increase the speed of signing a deposit request message if he or she wanted to?


Not using Tor would do the trick.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 08, 2015, 07:07:49 PM
Quote
It has already been pointed out that transaction malleability is a problem for Mercury's approach. It is also important that no one has a financial stake in promoting Mercury and that NuBit shareholders will provide deep liquidity on B&C Exchange but don't have the same incentives to support Mercury. I hope to have time to provide a detailed comparison of Mercury and B&C Exchange. Briefly, Mercury is an important and noble project but it doesn't have the same prospects for widespread adoption and commercial success as B&C Exchange.

I know you're confident but being humble is good too. How do you know Mercury doesn't have the same prospects for widespread adoption or commercial success as B & C? They have a simpler exchange algorithm than you do and their software is already functional, plus - they charge zero trade fees. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss your competition even if you do seem to have a better incentivisation model. (They have also already fixed the TX malleability issue I raised with a temporary multi-signature approach not unlike your own.)

I hadn't realized Mercury is using multi-sig now. Thanks for bringing me up to date.

I like Mercury and Mappum and hope they succeed. Having a variety of decentralized exchanges will make the peer to peer economy stronger than having a just a single solution. Our primary competitors are centralized exchanges. Unlike Mercury, I do hope that centralized exchanges become viewed as obsolete and are abandoned soon. Their failures have been very hard on the peer to peer economy. Mercury and B&C Exchange can both play a role in ending those failures.

However, Mercury requires users to run the Mercury desktop client and a variety of other coin daemons or clients. B&C Exchange will provide a convenient web based user experience quite similar to what users are used to at centralized exchanges.

Liquidity is the lifeblood of an exchange. Given the broad overlap of NuShare and BlockShare holders, we can be sure NuShare holders will favor providing liquidity on B&C Exchange over other exchanges, including Mercury. The liquidity provided by NuBot and the Nu network will be key to the success of B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 08, 2015, 07:31:20 PM
An anonymous donor who is a friend of B&C Exchange is offering a 2 million NSR reward (currently valued at $5600) for whoever places the largest successful bid (as measured in USD or NuBits) in the auction that ends on the 12th. "Successful bid" means the auction meets its minimum funding goal of 200,000 USD, the bid is at a winning price, and payment for NuShares is made.

Thank you to the donor behind this offer.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 08, 2015, 10:10:07 PM
BCExchange, Pillow from Peercointalk said in chat that he sent a Bitmessage but never received a response. Is there any chance one of your messages got overlooked? I told him to try resending his request and that I'd let you know about it here.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 08, 2015, 10:45:41 PM
BCExchange, Pillow from Peercointalk said in chat that he sent a Bitmessage but never received a response. Is there any chance one of your messages got overlooked? I told him to try resending his request and that I'd let you know about it here.

This is the first report we have received of unresponsiveness. No Bitmessage has been received from Pillow, unfortunately. All Bitmessages received at BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ and emails received at nsrauction@vistomail.com have been given prompt replies.

I would suggest Pillow resend. Email is more reliable, but Bitmessage is very likely to work as well.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 4 days remaining to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 09, 2015, 01:01:42 AM
There are now 4 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has placed a bid! As a reminder, no late bids will be accepted past the deadline, so please submit them as early as possible.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: cybnate26 on May 09, 2015, 02:57:53 AM
This has actually been an excellent discussion and I've learned a lot. I kind of want to keep this going now but I feel like I'm hijacking your thread. Do you guys mind if I post some more questions I might have tomorrow?
Have been lurking here for a while. Definitely enjoyed the discussion. Like to see more of it.

Have been following the Mercury developments from the start. The B&C development is also very interesting and is a bold attempt to run a decentralized exchange as a business.
In general, anything that removes the reliance on centralized exchanges, one of the last bastions of centralization in the crypto world, has my support. The sooner the better!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: cryptog1 on May 09, 2015, 07:53:05 AM
Another set of additional questions, if you do not mind:

- What would be the main difference between B&C and a smart contract-based decentralized exchange if ever the latter is possible?

The latter wouldn't need the trusted signers. That would remove the need for a lot of B&C's infrastructure. There'd be no nominations or voting and you wouldn't even need shares or dividends. It could be done without a fee, apart from the coin transaction fees. There'd be no exchange operators, so there'd be no opportunity to make a business out of creating and running it.

Quote
- Can we increase easily the number of signers required and number of signers? Currently designed I understand that it is  8 out of 15. Any particular reason for this pair?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that bitcoin and its clones won't allow you to have messages longer than a certain size when you want to spend a coin. If the coin is in a multisig address, you need lots of signatures to be able to spend it but then you hit the size limit. I think 8 out of 15 is pretty much as large as you can get.

Quote
- How could a trusted signer increase the speed of signing a deposit request message if he or she wanted to?



Not using Tor would do the trick.


tks.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 09, 2015, 07:05:55 PM
Another set of additional questions, if you do not mind:

- What would be the main difference between B&C and a smart contract-based decentralized exchange if ever the latter is possible?

The latter wouldn't need the trusted signers. That would remove the need for a lot of B&C's infrastructure. There'd be no nominations or voting and you wouldn't even need shares or dividends. It could be done without a fee, apart from the coin transaction fees. There'd be no exchange operators, so there'd be no opportunity to make a business out of creating and running it.

The answer to cryptog1's question depends on how you define "smart contract". If you define a smart contract as something that occurs on a single blockchain without any external dependencies, then smart contracts could never be used to create a decentralized exchange that trades assets on foreign blockchains. If you define smart contracts in a way that permits consideration of events beyond the native blockchain, then the exchange agreements crafted on B&C constitute smart contracts. My understanding of the essence of smart contracts is that their terms, execution and outcome are automated using a blockchain. Using this definition orders placed and filled on B&C Exchange are certainly smart contracts.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: cryptog1 on May 09, 2015, 11:34:50 PM
whoever places the largest successful bid (as measured in USD or NuBits) in the auction that ends on the 12th. "Successful bid" means the auction

Just for clarifying. Here largest bid means (price * number of shares) assuming the bid matches the auction conditions ?

The answer to cryptog1's question depends on how you define "smart contract". If you define a smart contract as something that occurs on a single blockchain without any external dependencies, then smart contracts could never be used to create a decentralized exchange that trades assets on foreign blockchains. If you define smart contracts in a way that permits consideration of events beyond the native blockchain, then the exchange agreements crafted on B&C constitute smart contracts. My understanding of the essence of smart contracts is that their terms, execution and outcome are automated using a blockchain. Using this definition orders placed and filled on B&C Exchange are certainly smart contracts.

Tks a lot for this clarification. This is exactly the answer I was expecting.  More generally, I do think that "smart contracts" are rather a buzz word that just expresses in a fancy way some scripts that are executed in a trustless way within the blockchain so in this sense Nu has smart contracts and b&c would certainly too.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: fatbitcoinfan on May 10, 2015, 12:28:55 AM
My understanding of the essence of smart contracts is that their terms, execution and outcome are automated using a blockchain. Using this definition orders placed and filled on B&C Exchange are certainly smart contracts.

Tks a lot for this clarification. This is exactly the answer I was expecting.  More generally, I do think that "smart contracts" are rather a buzz word that just expresses in a fancy way some scripts that are executed in a trustless way within the blockchain so in this sense Nu has smart contracts and b&c would certainly too.

This is a bit that I don't fully understand: If you can execute contracts or scripts on the blockchain trustlessly, then why don't you get these trustless scripts to do the signing, instead of choosing 15 people to trust?

The people just turn on some software and then go away, and we trust them not to modify the software maliciously. So why not have the code to be executed be the trustless type, like the code that checks the signatures in bitcoin transactions?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 10, 2015, 12:48:25 AM
whoever places the largest successful bid (as measured in USD or NuBits) in the auction that ends on the 12th. "Successful bid" means the auction

Just for clarifying. Here largest bid means (price * number of shares) assuming the bid matches the auction conditions ?

Yes, that is correct.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 5 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 10, 2015, 01:03:17 AM
This is a bit that I don't fully understand: If you can execute contracts or scripts on the blockchain trustlessly, then why don't you get these trustless scripts to do the signing, instead of choosing 15 people to trust?

The people just turn on some software and then go away, and we trust them not to modify the software maliciously. So why not have the code to be executed be the trustless type, like the code that checks the signatures in bitcoin transactions?

The need for reputed signers revolves around the need for management of private keys used to sign multisig transactions transferring funds from deposit addresses. The private keys must be kept from everyone but the signer, and they must also make them available to a client under their control to sign transfers.

These signers do just turn on software and go away. Everything is done automatically for them. Signing operations will typically take place on Linux VPSs that won't be logged into for weeks at a time in many cases.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized exchange that can earn you Bitcoin!
Post by: mhps on May 10, 2015, 02:31:57 AM

I'm not sure I understand why shareholders might want the security deposit asset to be the same as the signing asset. It is also likely that most reputed signers will sign for many asset types.

I agree that many reputed signers may want to sign for many asset types. The reason why the deposit should be the signing asset is that the B&C traders of those assets may want to be sure that the signer has deposit that reach a certain amount all the time, in terms of the singing asset. For example if there are $20k depoisit in Blockshares in the beginning for signing LTC/BTC and someone dumps a couple of blockshare when blockshare market is as shallow as current NSR's, and cause the price of blockshares (in BTC) to drop by 50%. Then the deposit is worth $10k, causing B&C traders to switch away from this signer.

In short, my point is that the B&C users would want collaterals (deposit) and the collaterals may translate into operational cost.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 3 days remaining to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 10, 2015, 02:38:08 AM
There are now 3 days left in the auction. Thank you to everyone who has placed a bid! As a reminder, no late bids will be accepted past the deadline, so please submit them as early as possible.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 3 days remaining to bid!
Post by: jubalix on May 10, 2015, 08:09:28 AM
can someone explain who is the holder of all these off market nushares???

is this a sort of dump int btc for large nushare holders ala mastercoin into maidsafe at the expense of BTC?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 3 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 10, 2015, 12:26:52 PM
can someone explain who is the holder of all these off market nushares???

is this a sort of dump int btc for large nushare holders ala mastercoin into maidsafe at the expense of BTC?

The NuShares up for auction are not owned by anyone, and never have been. They were created last August for the purpose of selling when our blockchain was first created last August.

B&C Exchange will provide additional value to Bitcoin because it will permit Bitcoins to be bought and sold in a very secure and private manner. I'm surprised to see the question raised about this being detrimental to Bitcoin.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 10, 2015, 09:20:59 PM
- Can we increase easily the number of signers required and number of signers? Currently designed I understand that it is  8 out of 15. Any particular reason for this pair?

The system isn't designed specifically for 8 of 15, but it can support that and I have used it in examples. Shareholders can change the number of total signers and the number of signers required by voting for the number they think is best; no code changes are needed and it can be changed at anytime. The minimum number of required signers is 2 while the maximum is 13. The minimum number of total signers is 4 and the maximum is 15. 8 of 15 is just a guess of where we will end up, but experience will give us a lot more information about what the optimal values are. It is unlikely there will be that many signers right when B&C Exchange begins operation.

- How could a trusted signer increase the speed of signing a deposit request message if he or she wanted to?

Principally by not using Tor and other proxies such as VPNs. I suspect shareholders will prefer the added security of proxies over the speed of not using them, at least in the early days before more sophisticated solutions are crafted. Proxies obscure the signer's IP address, which basically means there is zero attack surface because no one has any idea how to communicate directly with signers. All communication occurs via general network broadcast. It is a very secure architecture, especially when compared to centralized exchanges that have considerable attack surfaces to protect.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 3 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 10, 2015, 09:36:30 PM
Fees for B&C Exchange are set by shareholders by voting and can be changed whenever shareholders choose to do so. The fee is not a percent like with centralized exchanges, but rather an amount per byte of blockchain space required. The fees to open an account will vary based on the number of deposit addresses used and the number of signers used, but it might average several times the cost of an order.

What do you think is the best price to charge for the average size order to meet the goal of maximizing exchange revenue? When I speak of the size of the order, I'm referring to the number of bytes it requires on the blockchain. The monetary value of the order is not relevant in regard to the transaction fee.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 2 days remaining to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 11, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
Thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread so far! We appreciate the thoughtful questions and comments.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 2 days remaining to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 11, 2015, 01:11:15 AM
There are now only 2 days left in the auction. You can bid by sending a BitMessage or email to the contact information specified in the original post.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 2 days remaining to bid!
Post by: learnmore on May 11, 2015, 05:55:54 AM
Anyone following cryptocurrency for as long as I have knows there is no shortage of brilliant minds taking part in this social leap.  Unfortunately, there are also plenty of thieves, con artists, and dreamers distracting from the true advances in Bitcoin’s evolution.  At this point, anyone with financial skin in the game should be leery of investing in undelivered promises.

The Peercoin track of development stands out in my mind as a veritable leader in innovation, foresight, and meticulous deployment.  Jordan Lee, sigmike, and erasmospunk have proven talent in advancing the ground-breaking work of Sunny King.  If you haven’t taken the time to evaluate the opportunities in Peershares and NuBits you haven’t performed due diligence in the industry and shouldn’t be investing in cryptocurrencies.

Jordan Lee has demonstrated himself capable not only of professional development but of true commitment to solving the fundamental roadblocks in world-wide adoption of decentralized finance.  Instead of pumping a trend for a quick buck, Jordan has joined Sunny King in constructing a legacy for our children that is both fair and resilient.  What other examples in history do we have of true intellectual treasure being openly distributed into the hands of the community?

Having solved volatility and liquidity in NuBits, Jordan and his team are moving ahead to cure the other black eye of Bitcoin - centralized exchanges.  As one of many who have suffered great losses through exchange collapse, I cannot be more certain that this is the vital next advance the democratization of money.  Personally, my cryptocurrency assets are out of the economy until something like B&C exchange is up and running.

In my mind, the tradition of security and fairness that lives on with Peercoin carries through to this auction.  It’s hard to imagine a less risky investment in the cryptocurrency space simply because one has here the opportunity to bid on a proven asset at possibly below market value.  Although I have no doubt about the capacity of Jordan, Sigmike, and erasmospunk to deliver on their promises, a winning bid in this auction immediately conveys value through the direct ownership of the NuShares.  Aquiring NuShares though this bid may be your last opportunity to build a sizable stake in the Nu network irrespective of the eventual success of B&C.

If, for some reason, you maintain no interest in a long-term investment in NuShares you should at least take heed of the success of NuBits over the past 9 months in upholding 1:1 USD parity against extremely deep volume through periods of extremely rapid BTC/USD volatility.  Jordan Lee promised a stable cryptocurrency, and he delivered on schedule.  Furthermore, he continues to demonstrate his perseverance in accepting criticism, learning from mistakes, and building the future as a full team effort with some of the leading innovators in cryptocurrency.  Bidding on NuShares through this auction is your opportunity to enable the freedom of us all -for the first time in modern history- to store wealth and engage in commerce liberated from centralized power.

If you own Bitcoin, you should be bidding on this proposal.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 2 days remaining to bid!
Post by: tokeweed on May 11, 2015, 07:30:56 AM
Will B&C exchange be decntralized?  Like will FINCEN be able to shut it down or will it be like bittorent decentralized?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 2 days remaining to bid!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 11, 2015, 07:56:38 AM
Will B&C exchange be decntralized?  Like will FINCEN be able to shut it down or will it be like bittorent decentralized?

My understanding of the design leads to conclusion that there's no single point of centralization at B&C.

There will be websites that offer convenient access to the block chain and messages to it - e.g. to place orders in a way that people are familiar with from centralized exchanges.
But anybody is able to host such a website. In case websites are taken down, new ones will come up.

And the signing of transactions is completely decentralized as well.
There's no service provided by a domain name or an IP address that can be traced back.
The signers are expected to run the signing bots using TOR, VPN or proxies (because of security reasons).
So once again no centralized point of attack.
And the only reason why the work of the signers isn't completely automated and requires a little human interaction is the key management (backup of private keys) - I mean, you can't store the private keys of the signers in the B&C block chain and expect that nothing bad happens, right? ;)

Anything else runs on a distributed block chain.

Attacking the owners of B&C will be hard as well.
Neither B&C nor its shareholders need to register anywhere for the whole DAC to work.
From voting to the payout of dividends - all runs on block chains.
This is the beauty of DACs that are based on the Peershares template - which will be the case for B&C, because it will be forked from Nu, which was built upon the Peershares template - you need no connection to any real world identity; everything is just about cryptography and signatures ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 6 days remaining to bid!
Post by: cryptog1 on May 11, 2015, 12:01:51 PM
tks @jordanlee for your answer.


My vision for b&c is that if it is successful, b&c will become the first decentralized stocks market place in the world.
Imagine the revolution.
On b&c not only btc and other crypto-currencies will be traded but also any crypto-assets that are "Satoshi-based."
I have of course in mind all the crypto-shares that based on peershares' blueprint.
Not only we can imagine that nushares will be traded on b&c, but also its own shares, b&c shares, and any shares that belong to any DAOs.
The consequence of that is that b&c could spark a revolution in the IPO funding of any business.
A business that needs to raise funds will create its own peershares blockchain and then go IPO from day one and float its shares on b&c.
Also, as @jordanlee envisions it, it seems natural that nubits will be used to get in and out of the market...as a synthetic dollar as you use dollars to buy google stocks and sell them for dollars...
The near future is bright.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 2 days remaining to bid!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 11, 2015, 03:38:46 PM
Just in case anyone here is hesitant to bid because you're unfamiliar with Nu, I spent several days putting together an entire history of the Nu Network. I included all the major events and tried to show the evolution of our design and shareholder voting over the last 7 months. Hopefully this will be able to catch you up to the point where you feel comfortable bidding on shares. I still need to add some things to the history to make it more complete, but I think this is a very good first draft. Enjoy...

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/history-of-the-nu-network-feedback-please/2088


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 2 days remaining to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 11, 2015, 08:02:22 PM

There will be websites that offer convenient access to the block chain and messages to it - e.g. to place orders in a way that people are familiar with from centralized exchanges.
But anybody is able to host such a website. In case websites are taken down, new ones will come up.


This is correct, but I wanted to clarify that if websites disappear nothing is lost because the websites don't hold any customer data or funds. That is all completely held on blockchain.

Account login only requires a BlockCredit private key. The website is just a user interface for the blockchain, and no other database is used. So, if the website you use disappears, you can use the same login credentials at any other site or in the desktop client.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 12, 2015, 12:04:47 AM
It is now the final day of the auction. As a reminder, there will be no extensions of the auction deadline. If you would like to secure NuShares (and BlockShares) please place a bid as soon as possible.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: sabreiib on May 12, 2015, 10:33:07 AM
What's your opinion about open transaction? It seems OT can do anything b&c can do.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: siameze on May 12, 2015, 12:37:58 PM
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Hyena on May 12, 2015, 06:40:08 PM
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

And you're not tired of the ads spam and paid articles that many other coins use?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Yurizhai on May 12, 2015, 07:53:08 PM
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 12, 2015, 08:13:43 PM
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Yurizhai on May 12, 2015, 08:15:18 PM
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.

Yes, I was referring to him.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: thExit on May 12, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
Thumbs up, I've been around with the Nu network just before their launch, I had the pleasure of dealing with numerous Nu community members, from watchers, through backers to devs, on various levels, from chat to business. I'm glad to see further developments from your side, your effort and work is superb.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 12, 2015, 08:20:06 PM
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.
If you are tired so easily, I kindly recommend you get some rest ;)

Out of curiosity - what is that NuTeam, you are speaking of?
Please don't take a part for the whole...
...but after all - isn't the cryptocurrency section for cryptocurrency related topics; which applies to Nu?
There's much development going on at Nu. That might be the reason for a lot of posts...


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: siameze on May 12, 2015, 09:38:15 PM
This may or may not be a great idea, but I am personally so tired if all the NuTeam spam in the cryptocurrency section of reddit, just the mention of anything NU related I immediately dismiss.

We do have a rather zealous community member who posts a lot of things there, I wouldn't let that sour your opinion of Nu overall.

Are you talking about Crypto_Coiner? Maybe we should ask him if he could slow down on the postings. Honestly, I think only major news should be posted there. NuShares for NuBits burning, opening of liquidity pools, B&C exchange announcement, etc... Sometimes I see him posting random threads that don't really seem to be that important.


That would actually be excellent. I have no issues with the Nu community overall, but lets just say that overposting there is what killed reddcoin in the eyes of many. I enjoy reading about interesting updates and milestones for any cryptocurrency, but if I want daily updates I'll subscribe to r/NuBits.

I wish you all luck in your project.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 12, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
For those worried about the scalability of the design, remember that this design is not set in stone. It's merely a starting point. Using voting and motions, shareholders will be able to alter the design over time to improve it and make it faster. Here is something I read on the Peercointalk chat box...

Quote
pillow: I still believe that Open Transactions is _SUPERIOR_ to B&C way of doing it... _but_ my bet is that B&C will morph into Open Transaction like style
pillow: both etherum and b&C has latency issues... thats not good. also both doesn't scale really
NewMoneyEra: Ethereum testnet is running 12 second blocktimes: http://stats.ethdev.com/
NewMoneyEra: Scalability is a big concern as Vitalik wrote 3 blog posts on it. frankly, it is over my head with merkle trees and the like. I do remember top guys saying a critical component was the need to successfully break the link that every node had to run every program, which I think they have not solved yet
masterOfDisaster: one advantage of b&c compared to ethereum is that it's quite easy to get the basic function of it - at least for those who know the basics of block chains
pillow: 12 seconds is very slow. I don't think it will work for a proper exchange. We need at least milliseconds, preferably much much faster. the only limit, basically, should be the time it takes for computer to communicate, which would still be too slow to compete with centralized exchanges
pillow: so basically, no blockchain should be used for order matching etc.
mably: certainly not fitted for high frequency trading ;)
pillow: the thing is because of voting mechanism in B&C I think it will morph into such a system
pillow: mably yes exactly. if the decentralized exchange is lagging behind, people will prefer centralized exchanges
pillow: "liquidity begets liquidity" so... the bid ask will make B&C traders very expensice. the network needs to be fast enough for arbitraging bots to provide liqudity
pillow: basically what I envision is an Open Transaction like thing, where voting pools sign richardian contracts and trades are settled when people withdraw etc.
mably: Yep will probably be better suited
pillow: using B&C there would now, I envision, be a way to "discover" voting pools and ensure that they are good
mably: I'm a big fan of the KISS principle
mably: yep why not, that's an idea
masterOfDisaster: at least b&c is a big step into the right direction. the details of the inner works of the exchange can be altered by owners will. just have a look how fundamentally nu was improved!
pillow: yes yes exactly,
masterOfDisaster: whatever is promising better for customers (and can be afforded) has a good chance to let a corresponding motion pass ;-) b&c doesn't need to be perfect from the start; it can be tailored afterwards. in case something isn't compatible with the design, it can still be forked. high-speed trading not compatible with b&c design? let's fork "b&c turbo edition" - if you know what I mean ;-)
pillow: yes yes
pillow: after reading sents' recap/history of nu thread (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/history-of-the-nu-network-feedback-please/2088), I realized how powerful the motions/voting concept is. not only does it work, but it creates a real focused community
pillow: while I think the basic B&C design is not competitable enough, I think it will be improved when people with idea of how to fix it joins in
pillow: my dream would be a B&C network that maintains and ensure operations, voting pools connected running exchanges and discovery process of these exchanges via the B&C network. this entire thing would then be wrapped and exposed in simple Android apps and super simple WebApps
pillow: the B&C blockchain would be super lite, because it will only contain a few normal shares/coins transactions, the voting and voting pool "end points"
masterOfDisaster: sometimes it's about being first - in this case the first very low trust decentralized dac that offers exchange services!
pillow: yes indeed


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 12, 2015, 10:47:45 PM
For those worried about the scalability of the design, remember that this design is not set in stone. It's merely a starting point. Using voting and motions, shareholders will be able to alter the design over time to improve it and make it faster. Here is something I read on the Peercointalk chat box...

Quote
pillow: I still believe that Open Transactions is _SUPERIOR_ to B&C way of doing it... _but_ my bet is that B&C will morph into Open Transaction like style

Open Transactions has been in development for four years. This is an indication that it is not simple, and it is difficult to know how much longer it will take to complete, if it is ever completed.

My design is intended to be as simple and reliable as possible. It isn't the fastest approach (in terms of settlement time) and it uses more resources than some proposed solutions. However, I am confident it can be delivered more quickly and for less money than the alternatives. The iterative approach I am employing has been proven more likely to succeed than large ambitious projects full of complexity and uncertainty. It is worth noting the more complicated solutions haven't been delivered yet.

Sentinelrv is certainly correct that B&C Exchange will be iteratively developed for as long as there is funding to do so. Take a look at this relevant section from the design paper:

Quote
Future optimizations

Some observers may have concerns about the scalability of the solution. The initial design can scale to handle approximately 10 orders per second, along with all the other transactions needed to support orders. There are many changes that can be made in the future to improve scalability. They require additional development, so it doesn't make sense economically to implement them at this time. As network latency reduces over time due to hardware improvements block intervals can be collapsed, validation messages can be merely broadcast but not placed on the blockchain, a derivative of Cryptonite's mini-blockchain can be employed, delegates can be employed, etc. The solution proposed here can be evolved to scale far beyond 10 orders per second.

The initial version of B&C Exchange is in a sense just another iteration of earlier work. First the team and I developed the Peershare template. Once it was proven to work in on a public test network, we created the Nu network. B&C Exchange will be built on that code base and use most of the features of NuShares and NuBits. It is just another iteration. As such, I am confident it can be delivered. I wouldn't want to have to deliver Ethereum or Open Transactions, by the way. I'm just not at all confident I could do it. B&C Exchange is a much more modest proposal.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 13, 2015, 12:44:30 AM
Here are the auction results:

Total funds pledged: $137,074.52
Number of bidders: 24
Total NuShares bid for: 66,233,829
Average bid value: $5,711.44


The auction generated a considerable amount of interest but failed to reach $200,000 US in bids. Accordingly, no funds have been or will be accepted, and no NuShares (NSR) have been or will be sold.

The feedback we received indicated a few things:

1) Some prospective bidders said that they were solely interested in BlockShares and not NuShares. As such, the requirement to hold NuShares until the BlockShares network was created was seen as inconvenient and not aligned with their interests.
2) The number of shares (hundreds of millions) is difficult to comprehend, as was the bid price that was fractions of a penny.

We are proposing to pursue a new route of fundraising that will solve these issues and allow B&C Exchange to be developed. Everyone will hopefully find this new approach much simpler.

To address point #1: We now plan on creating the BlockShares chain shortly after the beginning of development, and selling 50% of all BlockShares in this announcement thread. This approach will be similar to the one taken by BitShares, where tokens (BlockShares) will be sold and development will occur on the production blockchain. All BlockCredit transactions will be disabled until development is complete. This means you can buy, hold and trade your own BlockShares within 30 days after making payment for them without the need to hold NuShares first.

To address point #2: the decimal place will be shifted four places to the right for BlockShares, which means approximately 80,000 will be sold and 80,000 will be given to NuShare holders. This will give them an initial value of around 5 USD.


New Structure of BlockShares Sales:

Total BlockShares supply: Approximately 162,000 BKS
- Approximately 80,000 BKS (about 50% of the BlockShares) will be sold here.
- Approximately 80,000 BKS will be held by NuShare holders who own NSR at the initial fork date. The Nu network will be granted about 50% of all BKS to encourage active involvement with B&C Exchange. Liquidity is the lifeblood of an exchange and B&C Exchange will benefit from Nu’s liquidity providers. We say “approximately” 80,000 BKS here because proof-of-stake rewards will have likely inflated the amount to between 81,000 and 82,000 BKS when the fork occurs.
- 2,000 BKS will be given to Bitcoin holders as per the design document’s original specified proportion.


We are proposing selling BlockShares in the following manner:

First ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.00 US each.
Second ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.10 US each.
Third ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.20 US each.
Final ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.30 US each.

TOTAL: 80,000 BKS for an average price of $5.15 each.


As well, the following rules apply:


- Minimum total purchase is 500 USD.
- Purchasers will be kept confidential.
- Multiple purchases are allowed, but only up to a maximum of 10,000 BKS in total across all purchases.
- A valid purchase will contain three elements: a quantity of BlockShares, the asset type you will pay with (BTC, LTC, PPC or NBT), and finally a cryptocurrency forum username (bitcointalk, discuss.nubits.com, or others) that is a minimum of one week old as of the date of this new announcement.
- The price of BTC will be set on the day a purchase request is made using the Bitfinex BTC/USD market price. LTC and PPC, being less liquid and subject to price manipulation, will be priced as the average of the BTC-e LTC/USD and PPC/USD price 48 hours before a purchase request is made, 24 hours before a purchase request is made and at the time the purchase request is made. NBT will be priced at 1.00 USD per NBT.
- Purchasers should have the funds to settle immediately.
As with the previous auction, we will make no promises about the future value of BlockShares.
No funds will be collected until $200,000 US worth of BlockShares are requested for purchase. This is the minimum amount of funds required to build B&C Exchange. After this threshold is reached, sales will continue until all $412,000 US worth of BlockShares are sold, or until BlockShares holders vote to burn (destroy) all unsold BlockShares.

This approach will hopefully make participation in B&C Exchange easier. You would now only be purchasing BlockShares at a fixed price. There are no NuShares sales or reserve prices any more.

This is a draft plan presented for public comment and revision and should not be viewed as commitment to a course of action. Hopefully the plan can be finalized in a few days, at which time bids for BlockShares will begin to be accepted. The total quantity bid for and paid for will be presented in this thread approximately daily.

We welcome comments, questions, complaints and suggestions for changes during this comment period.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: learnmore on May 13, 2015, 01:44:16 AM
Wow, I suppose there is no purpose in beating a dead horse, but I'm really surprised that people were turned off by having to hold NuShares.  To me, that was a major selling point of the auction.  Even if the NuShares were ultimately unwanted, they still served very well as a cryptologically sound, verifiable form of "pre-"ownership.  I'm not sure how I feel about the new purchase structure... it seems more risky to early buyers.  I'll have to think about it.  Right now I'm mostly just disappointed more people couldn't recognize the value here and the importance of this project toward advancing Bitcoin. 


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 13, 2015, 02:27:27 AM
Here are the auction results:

Total funds pledged: $137,074.52
Number of bidders: 24
Total NuShares bid for: 66,233,829
Average bid value: $5,711.44


The auction generated a considerable amount of interest but failed to reach $200,000 US in bids. Accordingly, no funds have been or will be accepted, and no NuShares (NSR) have been or will be sold.

The feedback we received indicated a few things:

1) Some prospective bidders said that they were solely interested in BlockShares and not NuShares. As such, the requirement to hold NuShares until the BlockShares network was created was seen as inconvenient and not aligned with their interests.
2) The number of shares (hundreds of millions) is difficult to comprehend, as was the bid price that was fractions of a penny.

We are proposing to pursue a new route of fundraising that will solve these issues and allow B&C Exchange to be developed. Everyone will hopefully find this new approach much simpler.

To address point #1: We now plan on creating the BlockShares chain shortly after the beginning of development, and selling 50% of all BlockShares in this announcement thread. This approach will be similar to the one taken by BitShares, where tokens (BlockShares) will be sold and development will occur on the production blockchain. All BlockCredit transactions will be disabled until development is complete. This means you can buy, hold and trade your own BlockShares within 30 days after making payment for them without the need to hold NuShares first.

To address point #2: the decimal place will be shifted four places to the right for BlockShares, which means approximately 80,000 will be sold and 80,000 will be given to NuShare holders. This will give them an initial value of around 5 USD.


New Structure of BlockShares Sales:

Total BlockShares supply: Approximately 162,000 BKS
- Approximately 80,000 BKS (about 50% of the BlockShares) will be sold here.
- Approximately 80,000 BKS will be held by NuShare holders who own NSR at the initial fork date. The Nu network will be granted about 50% of all BKS to encourage active involvement with B&C Exchange. Liquidity is the lifeblood of an exchange and B&C Exchange will benefit from Nu’s liquidity providers. We say “approximately” 80,000 BKS here because proof-of-stake rewards will have likely inflated the amount to between 81,000 and 82,000 BKS when the fork occurs.
- 2,000 BKS will be given to Bitcoin holders as per the design document’s original specified proportion.


We are proposing selling BlockShares in the following manner:

First ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.00 US each.
Second ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.10 US each.
Third ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.20 US each.
Final ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25%) are available for $5.30 US each.

TOTAL: 80,000 BKS for an average price of $5.15 each.


As well, the following rules apply:


- Minimum total purchase is 500 USD.
- Purchasers will be kept confidential.
- Multiple purchases are allowed, but only up to a maximum of 10,000 BKS in total across all purchases.
- A valid purchase will contain three elements: a quantity of BlockShares, the asset type you will pay with (BTC, LTC, PPC or NBT), and finally a cryptocurrency forum username (bitcointalk, discuss.nubits.com, or others) that is a minimum of one week old as of the date of this new announcement.
- The price of BTC will be set on the day a purchase request is made using the Bitfinex BTC/USD market price. LTC and PPC, being less liquid and subject to price manipulation, will be priced as the average of the BTC-e LTC/USD and PPC/USD price 48 hours before a purchase request is made, 24 hours before a purchase request is made and at the time the purchase request is made. NBT will be priced at 1.00 USD per NBT.
- Purchasers should have the funds to settle immediately.
As with the previous auction, we will make no promises about the future value of BlockShares.
No funds will be collected until $200,000 US worth of BlockShares are requested for purchase. This is the minimum amount of funds required to build B&C Exchange. After this threshold is reached, sales will continue until all $412,000 US worth of BlockShares are sold, or until BlockShares holders vote to burn (destroy) all unsold BlockShares.

This approach will hopefully make participation in B&C Exchange easier. You would now only be purchasing BlockShares at a fixed price. There are no NuShares sales or reserve prices any more.

This is a draft plan presented for public comment and revision and should not be viewed as commitment to a course of action. Hopefully the plan can be finalized in a few days, at which time bids for BlockShares will begin to be accepted. The total quantity bid for and paid for will be presented in this thread approximately daily.

We welcome comments, questions, complaints and suggestions for changes during this comment period.

I like this new plan, but I have a question. Selleing 20,000 shares at $5 would generate $100,000, which is half of what is needed for development and selling 19,417.5 shares is another $100,000. After that pledge amount is reached, money will actually start to be collected. Is there going to be another deadline to reach the pledged amount, or will it be open ended this time?

Right now I'm mostly just disappointed more people couldn't recognize the value here and the importance of this project toward advancing Bitcoin.  

Agreed, I'm actually shocked it didn't have more bids. I thought for sure it was a done deal with the amount of attention this project has received.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: ChronosCrypto on May 13, 2015, 05:12:13 AM
Under the old plan:

1) Example: Invest $5,000 at the minimum bid of 0.002 USD per NSR
2) Receive 2,500,000 NSR
3) Receive approximately 0.27% of the B&C Exchange shares (2,500,000 / 913,000,000)

Under the new proposed plan:

1) Example: Invest $5,000 at the minimum price of $5 per share
2) Receive approximately 0.62% of the B&C Exchange shares (1,000 / 162,000)

Interesting. The new plan yields a little more than double the B&C portion, but relinquishes the entire NSR stake. Some will see that as an increase in value, while others will consider it a decrease.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: Yurizhai on May 13, 2015, 05:18:23 AM

Agreed, I'm actually shocked it didn't have more bids. I thought for sure it was a done deal with the amount of attention this project has received.

The 1K minimum probably didn't help. Cryptocurrencies have been in a mostly bear market for what must be months now. A new $500 minimum should allow more people to participate.

I'm okay with the new auction proposal. NSR holders won't get as much of a stake, but they also won't be diluted 12%. If I am doing my math right a NSR holder it would only need to make a somewhat modest purchase to get the same stake in B&C as the previous auction.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: mhps on May 13, 2015, 05:37:04 AM
what about those shares to be airdropede to btc addresses? Still on ?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - 3 days remaining to bid!
Post by: jubalix on May 13, 2015, 05:41:59 AM
can someone explain who is the holder of all these off market nushares???

is this a sort of dump int btc for large nushare holders ala mastercoin into maidsafe at the expense of BTC?

The NuShares up for auction are not owned by anyone, and never have been. They were created last August for the purpose of selling when our blockchain was first created last August.

B&C Exchange will provide additional value to Bitcoin because it will permit Bitcoins to be bought and sold in a very secure and private manner. I'm surprised to see the question raised about this being detrimental to Bitcoin.

There must be some one controlling the private keys or whatever to issue the generated Nushares? who is that

I may have worded it wrong, but my example was not about being detrimental to BTC, but the maidsafe provided a dump out mechanisim for mastercoin holders en block to Maidsafe at the expense of bitcoiners.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 13, 2015, 06:02:11 AM
what about those shares to be airdropede to btc addresses? Still on ?

It seems so...

Quote from: BCExchange
- 2,000 BKS will be given to Bitcoin holders as per the design document’s original specified proportion.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: crypto_coiner on May 13, 2015, 06:45:38 AM
Here are the auction results:

Total funds pledged: $137,074.52
Number of bidders: 24
Total NuShares bid for: 66,233,829
Average bid value: $5,711.44



Average bid price: 0.00206955


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Hyena on May 13, 2015, 09:29:38 AM
New Structure of BlockShares Sales:

Total BlockShares supply: Approximately 162,000 BKS
- Approximately 80,000 BKS (about 50% of the BlockShares) will be sold here.
- Approximately 80,000 BKS will be held by NuShare holders who own NSR at the initial fork date. The Nu network will be granted about 50% of all BKS to encourage active involvement with B&C Exchange. Liquidity is the lifeblood of an exchange and B&C Exchange will benefit from Nu’s liquidity providers. We say “approximately” 80,000 BKS here because proof-of-stake rewards will have likely inflated the amount to between 81,000 and 82,000 BKS when the fork occurs.
- 2,000 BKS will be given to Bitcoin holders as per the design document’s original specified proportion.

Perhaps the non-bidders were afraid that they wouldn't be able to sell their nushares for a fair price once the B&C exchange goes live? Looking at the charts, nushares seem like a dying asset, very similar to PayCoin to the incompetent eye.

Because the B&C shares would now be received immediately after the purchase it complicates things for B&C developers a lot since they would have to have some sort of working block chain right away. How does it impact the development of B&C and the selling of shares? I guess you won't be able to start selling before you have the B&C block chain ready, so there would be development needed prior to receiving any funds at all.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: bubbletea789 on May 13, 2015, 09:58:50 AM
so when does the (new) sale start?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 13, 2015, 02:11:16 PM

Perhaps the non-bidders were afraid that they wouldn't be able to sell their nushares for a fair price once the B&C exchange goes live? Looking at the charts, nushares seem like a dying asset, very similar to PayCoin to the incompetent eye.


I'm not sure what would lead you to conclude NuShares are a dying asset. At 0.0025 USD, they are up 39% in the eight months since their appearance last September. That is an astounding return by any standard, but it is especially impressive in the Bitcoin 2.0/altcoin space, which has experienced a ravishing bear market during the life of NuShares. By way of comparison:

  • NuShares are up 39% since their debut on September 23
  • PayCoin is down more than 98% since its debut in December
  • Litecoin has fallen 59% since September 23
  • Bitshares, the asset most comparable to NuShares, have fallen 84% since September 23
  • Bitcoin is down 40% since September 23

Looking at charts there are a lot of cryptoassets that seem like a dying asset, with the notable exception of NuShares. Oh, and NuBits, which have gained exactly 0% since their debut  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 13, 2015, 02:20:31 PM
How does it impact the development of B&C and the selling of shares? I guess you won't be able to start selling before you have the B&C block chain ready, so there would be development needed prior to receiving any funds at all.

The proposed (but not finalized) plan is sell BlockShares and then deliver them within 30 days as a blockchain asset so they are liquid. The network will be completed according to the 20 page design paper posted in the OP in the following months.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 13, 2015, 03:01:40 PM
I'm not sure what would lead you to conclude NuShares are a dying asset.

I don't think that is what he was saying. Notice that he said it may appear that way to the incompetent eye, meaning people who are just going by charts alone and haven't done any research to realize what is going on with development and other things. At least current NuShareholders know there is a lot of important things going on, which is why some of us were shocked that people would turn down the opportunity to get NuShares in addition to BlockShares. Personally, I think they're all making a big mistake on that one and will regret it within the next year or two.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 13, 2015, 03:10:45 PM
The BlockShares that would be released within 30 days, would they contain the ability for shareholders to pass motions, or would that functionality only be included after development has been finished in full?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: Hyena on May 13, 2015, 03:29:52 PM
I'm not sure what would lead you to conclude NuShares are a dying asset.

I don't think that is what he was saying. Notice he that said it may appear that way to the incompetent eye, meaning people who are just going by charts alone and haven't done any research to realize what is going on with development and other things. At least current NuShareholders know there is a lot of important things going on, which is why some of us were shocked that people would turn down the opportunity to get NuShares in addition to BlockShares. Personally, I think they're all making a big mistake on that one and will regret it within the next year or two.

+1
That's exactly what I meant and why I deliberately referred to the "incompetent eyes". I also think that now the B&C investors will get a slightly worse deal because NuShares and B&C will be working in symbiosis so it would make sense to own the shares of both systems. Looking at the market liquidity of nushares, it would be more expensive to buy the nushares from the open market than by getting them as a part of B&C investment.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: JordanLee on May 13, 2015, 04:09:15 PM
so when does the (new) sale start?

The date is not set. If the feedback in the next day or two doesn't present any complications that require further discussion, I expect sales to start in two or three days.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: BCExchange on May 13, 2015, 04:13:42 PM
I also think that now the B&C investors will get a slightly worse deal because NuShares and B&C will be working in symbiosis so it would make sense to own the shares of both systems.

As Chronos correctly pointed out, a user would receive a greater percentage amount of BlockShares in our new sale structure per dollar spent. This was done deliberately on our part to better ensure that our funding goal is met.

There are many users who would prefer to only own BlockShares and not NuShares. So, there are now two options that satisfy both customer segments; you can either solely buy BlockShares from us, or you can buy NuShares on the open market that will later grant BlockShares.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: JordanLee on May 13, 2015, 04:15:17 PM
The BlockShares that would be released within 30 days, would they contain the ability for shareholders to pass motions, or would that functionality only be included after development has been finished in full?

The initial BlockShares blockchain will permit shareholders to pass motions and grants. Nothing specific to the exchange functionality will be included in the first version. It is only intended to give bidders direct possession of a liquid asset.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: JordanLee on May 13, 2015, 04:23:27 PM
I'm not sure what would lead you to conclude NuShares are a dying asset.

I don't think that is what he was saying. Notice he that said it may appear that way to the incompetent eye, meaning people who are just going by charts alone and haven't done any research to realize what is going on with development and other things. At least current NuShareholders know there is a lot of important things going on, which is why some of us were shocked that people would turn down the opportunity to get NuShares in addition to BlockShares. Personally, I think they're all making a big mistake on that one and will regret it within the next year or two.

+1
That's exactly what I meant and why I deliberately referred to the "incompetent eyes". I also think that now the B&C investors will get a slightly worse deal because NuShares and B&C will be working in symbiosis so it would make sense to own the shares of both systems. Looking at the market liquidity of nushares, it would be more expensive to buy the nushares from the open market than by getting them as a part of B&C investment.

That makes sense. It was a good excuse to brag about how well NuShares have performed in this difficult market though.

Parametric order books are being implemented in NuBot right now, and when it is released I expect we will bring liquidity to NSR/NBT pairs. It won't be deep liquidity at first, but it will be an improvement.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - Final 24 hours to bid!
Post by: cryptog1 on May 14, 2015, 07:43:50 AM
Parametric order books are being implemented in NuBot right now, and when it is released I expect we will bring liquidity to NSR/NBT pairs. It won't be deep liquidity at first, but it will be an improvement.

Sorry. A bit off-topic but would parametric order books help LPCs hedge their positions regarding btc volatility and if yes how so?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: BCExchange on May 15, 2015, 03:18:39 AM
Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback about our new fundraising structure. If you have any concerns, comments, or suggestions, we would enjoy hearing them. BlockShares sales will begin very soon if no critical objections are raised.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 15, 2015, 06:04:07 AM
Thank you to everyone who has provided feedback about our new fundraising structure. If you have any concerns, comments, or suggestions, we would enjoy hearing them. BlockShares sales will begin very soon if no critical objections are raised.

Have you received any feedback from the people who only wanted to buy BlockShares? I was just wondering if this structure overall sounded better to them.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 15, 2015, 01:01:06 PM
According to feedback some prospective bidders have been solely interested in BlockShares.
Others might have been interested in both BKS and NSR, though.

While the original proposal would have provided successful bidders with shares of something that already exists and runs successful for months now (NSR) and BKS only after B&C would have been developed, it's quite clear that the only way of getting BKS by owning and holding NSR did scare some from placing a bid.
The security provided by getting ownership of something real was dwarfed by the consequences for people who wanted to invest in B&C.

That makes me think that some of those who have been scared by that proposal want to make a quick buck with B&C Exchange.
BKS are not an asset like so many other assets in the area of "crypto currencies".
With holding BKS comes a responsibility as those who hold BKS are those who own BKS.
BKS holders need to do certain things to make sure B&C runs well (e.g. mint, participate in motions - either by manual configuration or by registering to a feed).

The partial ownership of BKS (50% of BKS will be issued to NSR holders) helps bootstrapping the B&C business - after all it's (besides the architect and the development team) the NSR holders that brought Nu to where it is now, that transformed Nu to what it is now!
So I feel confident that B&C has a good chance.
And it factors that B&C is an offspring of Nu.
Some might consider it unfair that NSR holders receive BKS without paying for them.
Others might consider it unfair that BKS investors reap dividends from those who invested in the ground on which B&C will be built upon (Peershares template, Nu).
Both Nu and B&C are businesses.
Invest in what you prefer!

And that's what I like about the new proposal: it allows different parties to get what they want - those who primarily wanted NSR can buy the NSR at the market or wait for the next NSR auction (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-nbt-burn-nsr-sale/2115/26) to take place.
And those who only want to bid for BKS can do so.
The new proposal offers a chance to diversify the investment into buying NSR and BKS according to one's taste.

Based on a calculation a few posts ago (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11361709#msg11361709), one might consider this investment:
Quote
Under the old plan:

1) Example: Invest $5,000 at the minimum bid of 0.002 USD per NSR
2) Receive 2,500,000 NSR
3) Receive approximately 0.27% of the B&C Exchange shares (2,500,000 / 913,000,000)

Under the new proposed plan:

1) Invest $2,500 at the minimum price of $5 per share
2) Receive approximately 0.31% of the B&C Exchange shares (500 / 162,000)
3) Invest $2,500 at a rate of 0.0025 USD per NSR (by placing a bid at "Day 1" - assuming that the motion passes in the current version)4
4) Receive approximately 0.05% of the B&C Exchange shares (0.5 * 1,000,000 / 913,000,000)
That totals to approximately 0.36% of the B&C Exchange shares.
Comparing old an new proposal (investing $5,000): you could have approximately one third more percentage of BKS(0.36% compared to 0.27%), while still getting approximately 40% of the NSR (1,000,000 NSR compared to 2,500,000 NSR).

If you were interested in maximizing the amount of NSR1 while still receiving 0,27% of BKS, you should perhaps try to get 317 BKS (at $5 each; 317/162,000=0.00195) and 1,366,000 NSR (at $0.0025 each;0.5*1,366,000/913,000,000=0.00075). Adding up 0.00195 and 0.00075 equals to 0.0027=0.27% of BKS.

Between investing all in BKS and investing all in NSR everything is possible.

I think the current proposal addresses the feedback very well and offers much more flexibility than the old one.
Reducing the numbers by a factor of 10,000 makes the numbers indeed much better manageable, although I'd sincerely hope that someone who were going to invest in something into B&C were able to handle (big) numbers ;)

1by investing $5,000; according to new proposal and assuming successful participation in the next NSR auction (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/draft-nbt-burn-nsr-sale/2115/26) that is yet to be voted on


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: BCExchange on May 15, 2015, 03:31:57 PM
Have you received any feedback from the people who only wanted to buy BlockShares? I was just wondering if this structure overall sounded better to them.

Everyone who bid in the first auction was contacted and asked for feedback. Of the people who replied, nearly everyone said they would participate in the new sale, including those who preferred the first plan. So, we will be moving forward shortly with this new fundraising structure.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - *NEW* fundraiser
Post by: BCExchange on May 15, 2015, 03:35:25 PM
Between investing all in BKS and investing all in NSR everything is possible.

This is how we hope the new structure is perceived as well. Thank you for taking the time to write out your support!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 15, 2015, 04:10:41 PM
***The new fundraiser starts at 14:00 UTC on May 16th, 2015.***

Here are the details, as updated in the original post:

BlockShares Sales (BEGINNING AT 14:00 UTC, MAY 16, 2015):

Total BlockShares supply: ~162,000 BKS
- ~80,000 BKS (50% of total supply) will be sold here beginning May 16, 2015.
- ~80,000 BKS (50% of total supply) will be held by NuShare holders who own NSR at the initial fork date.
- 2,000 BKS will be given to Bitcoin holders as per the design document’s original specified proportion.

We will be selling BlockShares in the following manner:


First ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.00 US each.
Second ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.10 US each.
Third ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.20 US each.
Final ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.30 US each.

TOTAL: ~80,000 BKS for an average price of $5.15 US each.

Make a purchase by emailing nsrauction@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested below. You must contact us at or after 14:00 UTC May 16, 2015. No early purchases will be accepted to ensure fairness for everyone.

Note: The total amount of BKS sold here will be the blockchain quantity of NSR minus the undistributed NSR divided by 10,000, at the moment of the fork. Should NuShareholders vote for a 100,000,000 NSR expansion in their supply to raise it to 900,000,000 NSR for example, ~90,000 BKS would be sold here and ~90,000 BKS would be reserved for NuShareholders. We want to be very clear that half of BKS equity is for sale here, and half of BKS equity will be granted to NuShare holders. The Nu network will be granted 50% of all BKS to encourage active involvement with B&C Exchange. Liquidity is the lifeblood of an exchange and B&C Exchange will benefit from Nu’s liquidity providers.

As well, the following rules apply:

- Minimum total purchase is 500 USD.
- Purchasers will be kept confidential.
- Multiple purchases are allowed, but only up to a maximum of 10,000 BKS in total across all purchases.
- A valid purchase will contain three elements: a quantity of BlockShares, the asset type you will pay with (BTC, LTC, PPC or NBT), and finally a cryptocurrency forum username (bitcointalk, discuss.nubits.com, or others) that is a minimum of one week old as of the date of this new announcement.
- The price of BTC will be set on the day a purchase request is made using the Bitfinex BTC/USD market price. LTC and PPC, being less liquid and subject to price manipulation, will be priced as the average of the BTC-e LTC/USD and PPC/USD price 48 hours before a purchase request is made, 24 hours before a purchase request is made and at the time the purchase request is made. NBT will be priced at 1.00 USD per NBT.
- Purchasers should have the funds to settle immediately.
- As with the previous auction, we will make no promises about the future value of BlockShares.
- No funds will be collected until $200,000 US worth of BlockShares are requested for purchase. This is the minimum amount of funds required to build B&C Exchange. After this threshold is reached, sales will continue until all BlockShares are sold, or until BlockShares holders vote to burn (destroy) all unsold BlockShares.


Title: B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: bumpk1nK on May 15, 2015, 07:17:48 PM
Sounds like a


SCAM

Everyone be carefull here and DYOR.



Title: Re: B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 15, 2015, 07:38:46 PM
Everyone be carefull here and DYOR.

This is surprising to us, given your multiple posts of support two weeks ago in this thread. Regardless, it is excellent advice - individuals should indeed do their own research on our team's past work with Peercoin, NuBits, and NuShares before deciding whether to purchase. Our full design document shows that we are very committed to building a B&C Exchange that BlockShareholders will be proud of.


Title: Re: B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 15, 2015, 09:01:12 PM
Everyone be carefull here and DYOR.

This is surprising to us, given your multiple posts of support two weeks ago in this thread. Regardless, it is excellent advice - individuals should indeed do their own research on our team's past work with Peercoin, NuBits, and NuShares before deciding whether to purchase. Our full design document shows that we are very committed to building a B&C Exchange that BlockShareholders will be proud of.

Indeed.

be carefull here and DYOR.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to take your own advice. I can't take anyone seriously that would call this a scam. It just shows that they haven't done any research about this team's past and the multiple projects that they've completed together, Peerunity, Peershares, NuBits, NuShares, NuBot, and now B&C. This track record shows that the team is committed to developing serious solutions. Even suggesting that this is a scam is insulting to Jordan and the many people like me that work with him as he's proven himself many times over. The Peercoin and Nu communities are not known for scams. They're focused on creating serious products and providing true innovation, energy efficient consensus with proof-of-stake, crypto equity, decentralized voting, stable currencies and now decentralized exchanges. These are all huge achievements and the list will continue to grow in the future after this project receives full funding and is completed. Looking at this list of accomplishments, I feel the team doesn't get the full credit it truly deserves.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: nwfella on May 16, 2015, 01:07:53 AM
Interesting project for all the obvious reasons.  Biggest problem I have with what I've read thus far is the minimum $500 barrier to entry :/


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: bubbletea789 on May 16, 2015, 02:11:32 AM
so "the moment of the fork" is when the devs fork Nushares and start the development right?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: hl5460 on May 16, 2015, 03:34:30 AM
Repost the news on my weibo
http://weibo.com/3552119670/Ci4TglJk6


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: crypto_coiner on May 16, 2015, 04:02:07 AM

We will be selling BlockShares in the following manner:[/b]

First ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.00 US each.
Second ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.10 US each.
Third ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.20 US each.
Final ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.30 US each.

TOTAL: ~80,000 BKS for an average price of $5.15 US each.

Make a purchase by emailing nsrauction@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested below. You must contact us at or after 14:00 UTC May 16, 2015. No early purchases will be accepted to ensure fairness for everyone.


How do you allocate which BlockShares lot is distributed to whom, i.e. you use the timestamp of contact?/settlement? or anything else?



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: zoro1 on May 16, 2015, 01:45:50 PM
15 more minutes?
according to http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_UTC.aspx


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: JordanLee on May 16, 2015, 01:51:30 PM
Interesting project for all the obvious reasons.  Biggest problem I have with what I've read thus far is the minimum $500 barrier to entry :/

Half of all BKS will be distributed to NuShare holders. You can easily purchase less than $1 worth of NuShares, and receive BKS if the sale meets the minimum funding level of $200,000. You will receive 1 BKS for each 10,000 NSR. The minimum NSR you must own at the time of the fork is 1 satoshi (0.0001 NSR).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 16, 2015, 01:55:43 PM
15 more minutes?
according to http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_UTC.aspx

That's right. 5 minutes now to the start of the sale.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 16, 2015, 02:06:30 PM

We will be selling BlockShares in the following manner:[/b]

First ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.00 US each.
Second ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.10 US each.
Third ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.20 US each.
Final ~20,000 BKS (exactly 25% of available BKS) are available for $5.30 US each.

TOTAL: ~80,000 BKS for an average price of $5.15 US each.

Make a purchase by emailing nsrauction@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested below. You must contact us at or after 14:00 UTC May 16, 2015. No early purchases will be accepted to ensure fairness for everyone.


How do you allocate which BlockShares lot is distributed to whom, i.e. you use the timestamp of contact?/settlement? or anything else?



By the time of bid.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 16, 2015, 03:13:47 PM
In the first hour of the sale, $64,750 has been pledged for 12,950 BKS. Most of the BKS that will be offered at $5.00 is gone.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 16, 2015, 05:58:35 PM
I have spread word of the sale and the current total pledged within the first hour on Peercoin social media, Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/peercoin/comments/366m2j/jordan_lee_is_now_selling_blockshares_directly/), Peercointalk, Twitter and Facebook, so hopefully that will give you a boost.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 16, 2015, 07:30:10 PM
so "the moment of the fork" is when the devs fork Nushares and start the development right?

Not quite. Devs will start development shortly after the $200,000 threshold is reached. Agreements were made with sigmike and Giannis (erasmospunk) to provide development before the first auction failed to reach funding goals. Because funding has not been secured and no start has been set we are not in a position to renegotiate agreements with devs. However, chances are high they will develop B&C Exchange if funding is secured quickly. If not, other devs will be recruited.

So, development or recruitment of developers (if necessary) will begin when funding is secured. The first iteration will be development related to the fork of the Nu chain and BKS distribution to purchasers.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Bisha on May 16, 2015, 08:14:35 PM
Interesting project for all the obvious reasons.  Biggest problem I have with what I've read thus far is the minimum $500 barrier to entry :/

Half of all BKS will be distributed to NuShare holders. You can easily purchase less than $1 worth of NuShares, and receive BKS if the sale meets the minimum funding level of $200,000. You will receive 1 BKS for each 10,000 NSR. The minimum NSR you must own at the time of the fork is 1 satoshi (0.0001 NSR).

So someone will get them for 5$ and others for ~20 (at today's prices)? I'd like to see where the price settles once this is delivered, I'm pretty curious.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 16, 2015, 08:32:28 PM
There is a question on r/peercoin...

Quote
Its a pretty cool concept but I did not find an answer to the following question.....
 
Once the exchange is launched, where is the incentive to make upgrades/ bug fixes from the original developers? Would there have to be a vote among shareholders to fund upgrades and bug fixes?
 
The developers would be the only ones that could fix the software, and they could basically set their own price to make any changes. This is a weird situation to be in.
 
If this were a normal exchange, the owners would have to fix it themselves or risk losing customers. I would not want to be a shareholder in this position.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 16, 2015, 09:28:10 PM
Once the exchange is launched, where is the incentive to make upgrades/ bug fixes from the original developers? Would there have to be a vote among shareholders to fund upgrades and bug fixes?

From the design document:

Quote
Development should be funded with BlockShares.

Once the initial development funds have been spent creating a functional B&C Exchange, future improvements can be made through BlockShares grants. Shareholders would vote to dilute their holdings by a certain percentage to auction off new BlockShares, and use the resulting funds to enhance the exchange.

The developers would be the only ones that could fix the software, and they could basically set their own price to make any changes. This is a weird situation to be in.
If this were a normal exchange, the owners would have to fix it themselves or risk losing customers. I would not want to be a shareholder in this position.

B&C Exchange will be open-source. This means that it is highly unlikely that a rogue developer could hold shareholders hostage for payment to upgrade the exchange. On B&C Exchange, the only owners are BlockShareholders. Developers are merely contractors that perform a service for BlockShareholders in exchange for compensation.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: JordanLee on May 16, 2015, 10:09:45 PM
Interesting project for all the obvious reasons.  Biggest problem I have with what I've read thus far is the minimum $500 barrier to entry :/

Half of all BKS will be distributed to NuShare holders. You can easily purchase less than $1 worth of NuShares, and receive BKS if the sale meets the minimum funding level of $200,000. You will receive 1 BKS for each 10,000 NSR. The minimum NSR you must own at the time of the fork is 1 satoshi (0.0001 NSR).

So someone will get them for 5$ and others for ~20 (at today's prices)? I'd like to see where the price settles once this is delivered, I'm pretty curious.

For ~$20, you get 10,000 NSR, which is quite different. So long as the sale meets the minimum funding requirement, for that ~$20 you will get 10,000 NSR and later 1 BKS. That route is a two-for-one deal.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 17, 2015, 03:38:54 AM
In the first 14 hours of the sale $76,865 have been pledged for 15,373 BKS. The threshold for a successful sale that allows us to move on to development is $200,000, so we are 38% of the way there.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: zoro1 on May 17, 2015, 01:32:34 PM
i wonder if NSR holders can vote to "buy" any BKS remainings with newlly ceated NBTs?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 17, 2015, 02:50:01 PM
i wonder if NSR holders can vote to "buy" any BKS remainings with newlly ceated NBTs?

That's probably not a good idea, as it would create $200k worth of additional sell pressure on the peg. There are already too many NuBits in circulation right now and a burn is being talked about to reduce the supply somewhat.

It might just be that this sale will take several weeks to finish. I'm sure that given enough time, we can find enough interested people.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 17, 2015, 03:36:59 PM
i wonder if NSR holders can vote to "buy" any BKS remainings with newlly ceated NBTs?
While this would technically speaking be possible, it isn't done easily if you consider the economical part.
NSR holders can't create NBT out of thin air as they like.
The NBT are ultimately backed by the value of Nu, derived from the market capitalization of NSR.
The first attempt for funding B&C would have gone that way.
Collect funds, pay for the B&C development and make B&C technologically and economically a complete offspring of Nu

Based on the feedback from those who placed a bid (and maybe those who didn't place a bid, but provided feedback) it has become clear that people are more interested in B&C than in Nu.

That's why this version of funding has started, allowing people to get a bigger share of B&C for the same amount of investment (compared to the initial proposal) by not making them buy NSR to receive BKS, but instead allowing them to buy BKS directly.


[...]
I'm sure that given enough time, we can find enough interested people.
This topic has for sure raised some eyebrows and looking at the number of views it's obviously one of the most interesting topics in the project development section here on bitcointalk.
Sorted by views (at the time of writing 18,472 views) it's on place 71 of all threads ever started in the development section. Considering that it's here for less than 4 weeks this is impressive!
Whether the interest in terms of views will be matched with interest in terms of bids for BKS is something only time can tell.

B&C can be a game changer in exchanging crypto assets, so owning BKS offers the chance to participate in this business as well as forming it and determining the way it evolves - all decisions are made by the owners, the BKS holders!
It's entirely possible (and I think I've read that in one of the previous posts) that B&C can become _the_ stock exchange for DACs. This is a part of the next level of economy!
Is there one other concept that offers the convenience (for users/customers) and flexibility (in terms of trading pairs, etc.) that B&C is offering by design?
All that is required by a user to utilise B&C is to create an account to place transactions on the block chain. Whether this account is used through web sites that offer convenient access to the block chain or from a client running on one of the user's computers isn't important.
Important is that all relevant data that can be put there is stored in the block chain.

The only thing that can't be stored in the block chain is the private keys - of clients as well as of signers. Why they can't be stored there should be obvious.
B&C will inherit so much from Nu: being decentralized, highly flexible, being sustainable, all decisions are made by owners.

It's for sure aligned with some risk to invest in a business like this; B&C can fail in part or in total.

Given the track record (e.g. Peershares and Nu) of the architect and the development team that is going to implement B&C I have very high hopes for it to become a huge success. This team has started ambitious projects and delivered what was promised each time.
The design makes sense and the team going to develop B&C is motivated, devoted and has an amazing skill level.

If only I had the money, I'd buy me the whole lot of BKS that is being sold :D


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 17, 2015, 04:18:57 PM
i wonder if NSR holders can vote to "buy" any BKS remainings with newlly ceated NBTs?

It is likely that to make this course of action practical NuShare holders would need to commit to selling an equivalent amount of NSR. For instance, shareholders could pass a motion that says sell 20 million NSR valued at $40,000 from undistributed NuShares and upon successful completion of the NSR sale create 40,000 NBT that could be used to fund a purchase of 8,000 BlockShares. When BlockShares are created to distribute, 8,000 fewer BlockShares are created than planned, increasing the proportion of BlockShares that NuShare holders possess. There would be the complication that the quantity given to purchasers would need to be reduced so that the percentage of BKS they received remained constant with the change in the total quantity of BlockShares. Such changes would occur before BKS payment is made.

So this is practical, but NSR holders must sell NuShares to justify the creation of NuBits which could fund B&C Exchange.

It will be interesting to see if NuShare holders find this option appealing.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 17, 2015, 05:10:03 PM
Total funds pledged for BlockShares have reached $90,880 in just a little over a day. We are 45% of the way to the $200,000 that is required to fund development. The price will soon rise to $5.10 per BlockShare.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 18, 2015, 08:45:57 PM
Total funds pledged for BlockShares have reached $90,880 in just a little over a day. We are 45% of the way to the $200,000 that is required to fund development. The price will soon rise to $5.10 per BlockShare.

I have updated the total to this on all Peercoin channels.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 19, 2015, 07:57:41 AM
The update of Poloniex' "Terms of Use" (https://poloniex.com/terms/) yesterday is another good reason to strive for exchanges like B&C and why they will have a big chance to become important and successful.

From 20th May on users will need to provide full name and country of residence to withdraw funds (https://imgur.com/JFBcrmI):
https://imgur.com/JFBcrmI

Bad luck for those who don't get that information within the 48 hours that are between the announcement and taking effect to withdraw without providing that information...


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: mably on May 19, 2015, 08:36:01 AM
How does B&C plan to combat money laundering?  Money laundering might be the first usage of such a decentralized exchange, it could prove better than CoinJoin at anonymizing transactions.

What do you think?


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 19, 2015, 08:39:32 AM
How does B&C plan to combat money laundering?  Money laundering might be the first usage of such a decentralized exchange, it could prove better than CoinJoin at anonymizing transactions.

What do you think?

Mably's concern in Peercointalk chat was about whether this could affect trusted signers. If they're not careful with their anonymity, they could possibly be targeted by authorities if people are using B&C to launder money and that money is going through them.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 19, 2015, 09:05:00 AM
How does B&C plan to combat money laundering?  Money laundering might be the first usage of such a decentralized exchange, it could prove better than CoinJoin at anonymizing transactions.

What do you think?

It's a good question!
My take is that decentralized exchanges like B&C further what has started with Bitcoin years ago: a way to transfer value independent from governments or centralized corporations.
But as B&C is based on the technology that was invented by Bitcoin (ok, there are iterations like Peercoin, Peershares and Nu in between), it inherits a lot of its features.

B&C introduces a new block chain executing the transfers between the involved crypto asset/currency block chains.
Users of B&C will have pseudonymous addresses in the B&C block chain.
With B&C everything (in terms of addresses and transactions) is available in a public ledger - but not the connection to the identities behind addresses and transactions!
So there's still the possibility to trace the movement of outputs through the block chains.
In my opinion this is completely from the CoinJoin approach and has nothing to do with the mixing CoinJoin offers.

I don't want to start a discussion about the legal or ethical implications of money laundering.
I only want to say that using a distributed system like B&C makes it hard to get hold of signers and users.

In difference to e.g. Poloniex, you won't need to reveal private information to use B&C - either if you want to be a signer or a user and using TOR makes it even harder to trace information.

The basic question is:
in what way does B&C allow a different level of pseudonymity than each single crypto asset/currency that will be exchanged at B&C already does?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: mably on May 19, 2015, 09:08:17 AM
As I was saying on the PT chat box, trusted signers will have to make sure they anonymize all the coins they use.

And BlockShares owners will have to be very careful about their anonymity too.

In case of money laundering I don't think any major exchange will want to trade BlockShares.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 19, 2015, 09:28:42 AM
As I was saying on the PT chat box, trusted signers will have to make sure they anonymize all the coins they use.
Why? Trusted signers don't need to do anything, but sign transactions. What do coins owned by them have to do with that and why should they need to be anonymized?
They sign transactions of users, who deposit/withdraw coins to/from multi-signature B&C addresses. The signers don't have ownership of those coins (and for the sake of B&C I sincerely hope it stays this way ;) )


And BlockShares owners will have to be very careful about their anonymity too.
I fully second that. Signers will have to be careful, too. And the more reputation they have, the better they need to take care.


In case of money laundering I don't think any major exchange will want to trade BlockShares.
Why do major exchanges trade BTC then? I still don't get the difference between B&C and a random crypto asset/coin in terms of money laundering capabilities.

If major exchanges refuse to trade BKS, why not trade them on B&C Exchange? ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: mably on May 19, 2015, 09:41:31 AM
As I was saying on the PT chat box, trusted signers will have to make sure they anonymize all the coins they use.
Why? Trusted signers don't need to do anything, but sign transactions. What do coins owned by them have to do with that and why should they need to be anonymized?
They sign transactions of users, who deposit/withdraw coins to/from multi-signature B&C addresses. The signers don't have ownership of those coins (and for the sake of B&C I sincerely hope it stays this way ;) )

You are right, I'm still not very well familiarized with B&C inner workings.

If major exchanges refuse to trade BKS, why not trade them on B&C Exchange? ;)

That could be a solution for sure.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 19, 2015, 11:03:10 AM
You are right, I'm still not very well familiarized with B&C inner workings.

I'm neither :)
I've read the design a few times, read discussions and have made up my mind about it. But I wouldn't dare to say, that I understand the inner workings.
I think I have a grasp of the concept - more or less.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 19, 2015, 01:21:54 PM
I have sent out a newsletter to all the registered users of Peercointalk.org. Many topics were about Peercoin, but the first thing I included at the top was a dedicated section to B&C. I hope that helps give the sale a boost.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: BCExchange on May 19, 2015, 04:52:38 PM
Total funds pledged for BlockShares are now $95,130. We are 48% of the way to our funding goal.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange – A decentralized Bitcoin exchange - **Sale starts May 16**
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 19, 2015, 06:59:42 PM
Total funds pledged for BlockShares are now $95,130. We are 48% of the way to our funding goal.

I tried fooling with the title again. I think it's important to leave the messaging in there about the exchange earning you Bitcoin. I also included the amount pledged and total percent, which would need to be updated daily. Everything here fits. There are actually 2 extra characters. Here is the title...

[ANN] B&C - Decentralized exchange that earns you Bitcoin **$95k Pledged 48%**

Do you think this info is worth including in the title? I think it would help draw in more people, especially the first part about earning you Bitcoin.


Title: [ANN] B&C - Decentralized exchange that earns you Bitcoin - 48% already pledged!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 19, 2015, 07:36:55 PM
I tried fooling with the title again. I think it's important to leave the messaging in there about the exchange earning you Bitcoin. I also included the amount pledged and total percent, which would need to be updated daily. Everything here fits. There are actually 2 extra characters. Here is the title...
[...]
Well done! You inspired me. Have a look at my draft (title of my post).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: BCExchange on May 19, 2015, 08:10:16 PM
Thanks for the suggestions Sentinelrv and MasterofDisaster. What do you think about our new title? We want to keep "B&C Exchange" as a full brand, but now also have a mention of our Bitcoin dividend feature as well as the percentage of fundraising accomplished to date.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 19, 2015, 08:17:46 PM
Yes, that looks better. I guess the amount pledged really isn't necessary. It's the percent of the total that is important because of the perception that we're moving toward our goal.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on May 19, 2015, 08:50:55 PM
The title looks good. Go for it!
The message is clear: almost half of the B&C Exchange shares is already gone!
...and the devil takes the hindmost. ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 20, 2015, 02:29:07 PM
I've been waiting on 50% until I post the new sale on r/cryptocurrency. Please let us know when this has been surpassed. Also, is there a reason why a thread about this was never made in the announcements board which is many times more active than this board or altcoin discussion?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: BCExchange on May 20, 2015, 03:37:50 PM
I've been waiting on 50% until I post the new sale on r/cryptocurrency. Please let us know when this has been surpassed.

Total funds pledged for BlockShares are now $95,630. We are still 48% of the way to our funding goal.

Also, is there a reason why a thread about this was never made in the announcements board which is many times more active than this board or altcoin discussion?

Project Development seemed to be the most appropriate place to make the announcement, joining other decentralized exchange projects like Mercury. We have now reached 20,000+ views on this announcement thread so we are satisfied with the exposure on this forum so far.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: js.galt on May 20, 2015, 08:37:50 PM
Ohh the shameless shit talking "Trades will occur using real cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and NuBits, as opposed to artificial proxy cryptoassets like those found in NXT or BitShares."

How sad is it that your first selling point is using the same "my money is REAL, you's is FAKE" argument that fiat supporters use?

Ey, if you managed to solve the decentralized exchange problem, I'm rooting for you, but that attempt at differentiating your self is just laughable.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: BCExchange on May 20, 2015, 09:24:11 PM
Ohh the shameless shit talking "Trades will occur using real cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and NuBits, as opposed to artificial proxy cryptoassets like those found in NXT or BitShares."

How sad is it that your first selling point is using the same "my money is REAL, you's is FAKE" argument that fiat supporters use?

Ey, if you managed to solve the decentralized exchange problem, I'm rooting for you, but that attempt at differentiating your self is just laughable.

As mentioned earlier in this announcement thread, for the benefit of those who have not read everything yet:

I expect BlockShare holders will choose to support NXT and Bitshares, so B&C Exchange will be open in a way NXT and Bitshares are not, because those platforms only permit you to trade assets that are native to their blockchain. So if you want to trade Bitcoin for Bitshares, you can't do it using the Bitshares exchange. You would first need to acquire BitBTC, an asset on the Bitshare blockchain designed to track Bitcoin. With B&C Exchange, however, you will be able to trade Bitshares for Bitcoin directly without the use of proxy assets. B&C Exchange is truly cross-platform compatible.

The ability for traders on B&C Exchange to trade real cryptoassets as opposed to proxy cryptoassets will be a tremendous advantage for our network. We appreciate all our decentralized exchange competitors' efforts because it enhances competition, which in turn improves the outcomes for customers. Our statement above simply points out an advantage of our network over others.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 21, 2015, 08:20:21 PM
Here is a possible plan of mine to fund the rest of development...

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/a-potential-plan-that-allows-for-b-c-exchange-to-start-development-immediately-removes-the-risk-of-current-pledgers-walking-away-due-to-a-lengthy-fundraising-process/2176/1

Let me know what you think of it.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: BCExchange on May 21, 2015, 10:40:46 PM
Total funds pledged for BlockShares are now $96,130. We are 48% of the way to our funding goal.

We encourage everyone who is interested in purchasing BlockShares to share this announcement thread in any external communities that they think would find it interesting.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: JordanLee on May 25, 2015, 06:00:35 PM
Sabreiib voiced the following concern (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/b-c-share-sales-have-been-stuck-between-45-48-for-the-past-several-days-we-need-to-boost-awareness-of-the-sale-by-purchasing-direct-advertisements-on-coinmarketcap-and-reddit/2164/12):

Quote from: Sabreiib
   
 I believe B&C is a very risky project because ethereum and open transaction is near.

The Open Transactions project was started in 2011 and has been months away from release for years. I took a look at their source code some time ago and was quite unimpressed with their architecture. Their code was extremely verbose and repetitive. They seemed to not make good use of core programming concepts such as inheritance, overrides and abstract classes. Chris Odom is the original developer of Open Transactions, but stepped down from his role as CTO at Monetas (the company developing Open Transactions) two months ago. What is it that makes you think the release of Open Transactions is near? I hope they succeed, but my guess is it will never be released. I have said before I wouldn't want to be tasked with building Open Transactions because I don't know how to implement the specifications. I don't see any reason to think anyone else knows how to either.

Ethereum is making better progress toward release, but is there any reason to think it will be an effective competitor of B&C Exchange? Looking at the Ethereum subreddit, I found this discussion of a decentralized exchange to be hosted on Ethereum (https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2vrgr2/dapp_preview_etherex_decentralized_exchange_on/):

There, I found the following comments:

Quote from: seven7hwave
    EtherEx is strictly for trading crypto-assets based on Ethereum. However, there should be similar projects in the not-too-distant future that facilitate fiat-to-ether (and Ethereum-based assets).

Quote from: alsomahler
    It only allows the exchange of digital tokens created on the Ethereum platform

You will not be able to use Ethereum to trade native cryptoassets. Proxy assets may be employed, like BitBTC on Bitshares. That is not at all the same as trading native Bitcoin for native Bitshares, which B&C Exchange will allow users to do and is what users want to do. B&C Exchange is a groundbreaking design that meets needs no competitor can.

Ethereum is based on the notion that one blockchain can rule them all, or that a cleverly built blockchain can serve a wide variety of business models simultaneously. My guess is that it will not optimally serve any business model. The Peershare philosophy is quite different. It employs separate blockchains with diverse protocols for diverse business models. Each Peershare doesn't do everything, but each one does something very well. As a group, they can serve a wide variety of business models.

I am curious to see how others understand B&C Exchange to compare to competing solutions. Please do share your thoughts.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: Bisha on May 25, 2015, 08:48:35 PM
Here is a possible plan of mine to fund the rest of development...

https://discuss.nubits.com/t/a-potential-plan-that-allows-for-b-c-exchange-to-start-development-immediately-removes-the-risk-of-current-pledgers-walking-away-due-to-a-lengthy-fundraising-process/2176/1

Let me know what you think of it.

Have you thought about DPOS to fund the development?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: JordanLee on May 25, 2015, 10:46:44 PM
Have you thought about DPOS to fund the development?

Can you say a little more about how DPOS could fund development please? I am aware that refers to BitShare's delegated proof of stake mechanism. I understand that each delegate receives some compensation, but it is unclear to me how that would aid development.

As an aside, DPOS is a mechanism that improves scalability at the cost of a modest degree of centralization. Its scalability improvements are only useful in networks with considerably more transactions than Bitcoin processes currently (~100,000 per day). B&C will not employ DPOS initially to keep transaction processing more decentralized and flexible, but it is an option to increase scalablilty long term.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 25, 2015, 10:58:49 PM
Is there an update on fundraising? The thread title needs to be updated as well.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: BCExchange on May 26, 2015, 12:13:25 AM
Important Announcement

B&C Exchange has so far been unable to procure the minimum $200,000 required to develop a functioning exchange. In some ways continued delays reduce the chances of a successful outcome because the availability of the core team (Jordan, sigmike, erasmospunk and tomjoad) cannot be be assured in the future. These individuals need to pursue other opportunities if B&C Exchange is not prepared to pay them for their work now. So, in this sense it is imperative that funding be procured now so work can begin immediately. On the other hand, time brings with it greater opportunities to expose new potential investors to B&C. It means the funding opportunities increase with time but the probability of employing our proven team diminishes. This implies that a strategy that permits work to start now and funds to be raised later is optimal.

We have not taken this route because we feel it is inappropriate to spend people's investment funds on a project that is clearly not yet funded to a degree that will permit the delivery of a functioning product that can bring a return on investment. Investment in such a scenario would be extremely risky, and we don't want to risk our reputation by taking such a high risk of not bringing a return on investment to a broad set of investors from our community. However, very high risk ventures are suitable for a limited group of people such as venture capitalists with ample funds whose lifestyle will not be adversely effected by a failure of the venture. They routinely take very high risks for a chance of a very high rate of return. This is the sort of opportunity a partially funded B&C Exchange represents.

$80,000 has been procured from a small set of individuals who are certainly in a position to bear a total loss without any adverse consequences to their lifestyle, retirement, etc. These seed investors need to be rewarded for their high level of risk. Therefore, they will be given additional equity. They are purchasing 20% of the BKS for sale. Previously, giving half of the equity to BKS purchasers and half to NuShare holders was planned. This new plan will leave subsequent BKS purchasers unaffected, but it will reduce the equity of NuShare holders to 40% of initial total equity. This 10% of the total equity will be given to the seed investors, so they receive a total of 20% equity for their $80,000. This approach of using seed investment funds at the highest-risk beginning stages was proven to be successful in the development of Nu.

These funds will permit Jordan, erasmospunk, sigmike and tomjoad to begin work immediately. They will fund development for at least two months and perhaps three. The hope is that in that time interval the additional $120,000 needed to bring the project to a complete and workable state will be pledged and collected. Those investors will have considerably less risk because their funds will only be accepted if enough is pledged to complete the project. A marketing campaign will be conducted during the initial development phase to increase the chances of raising the needed additional $120,000. If the secondary funding drive fails and the project runs out of funding and is not completed, we won't have poisoned our relationships and reputation with a broad collection of investors because funds were only accepted from a tiny group well prepared to take extraordinary risk.

While we seek comment from the community and wish to gather the broadest support for the project by making any reasonable adjustments that may be suggested by the public, we wish to note moving forward only requires the approval of the seed investors. NuShare holders are involved because they will receive 40% equity, but they are being given that free of obligation, so their permission is not needed. We are not asking anything of NuShare holders, just as we are not asking anything of Bitcoin holders being given equity, although we believe the inclusion of these communities will bring tremendous benefit to B&C Exchange and we are indebted to these two communities for the gift of the code base we will fork as we begin development.

To summarize, initial equity will be now divided as follows:

GROUPFUNDING RECEIVEDMIN. FUNDING REQUIREDMAX. FUNDING POSSIBLENUMBER OF SHARESPERCENTAGE OF SHARES
Seed Investors$80,000 (Complete)$80,000$80,000~42,50020%
Second-round BlockShares Purchasers$55,310 (Pledged but not collected)$120,000$332,690~80,75038%
NuShareholders$0$0$0~85,00040%
Bitcoin Holders$0$0$0~4,2502%

Note that the funds pledged by second-round BlockShares purchasers will only be collected if $120,000 in pledges are reached. In combination with the $80,000 in committed capital from the seed investors, this would bring us to our goal of at least $200,000. Also note that the $55,310 already raised for second-round BlockShares purchases comes from the previous fundraising update totals.

For second-round BlockShare purchasers, here is the new sales schedule:

CURRENT COSTPREVIOUS COSTNUMBER OF SHARES
$4.00 (sold out)$5.00 (sold out)~20,187 (sold out)
$4.08$5.10~20,187
$4.16$5.20~20,187
$4.24$5.30~20,187

The current price is $4.08. Make a purchase by emailing bkssale@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested in the main announcement post.

Going into more detail, the cost of a given percentage of equity of second round BlockShare purchasers will not change in this updated plan. In order to maintain consistency in that regard, the number of BlockShares will need to be raised and their individual cost lowered. This is because the quantity of BlockShares given to NuShareholders is fixed: it was ~85,000 in the previous plan and will continue to be ~85,000 with this new proposal. However, the new plan reduces their equity percent to 40% from 50%. This requires the number of BlockShares given to seed investors, second round investors and Bitcoin holders be increased as shown above. Individuals who have already pledged funds will be eligible for the same percentage of BKS at the same price, but the quantity of BKS will be increased and the price per share lowered.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 26, 2015, 02:17:28 AM
I like this and think it's pretty fair. I'm glad a solution was figured out in order to start development immediately. This should buy us enough time to deliver the blockchain and market the sale, which should help boost confidence in the project and make fundraising easier. So if we're going by our $200,000 fundraising goal then we're currently at 67% with $80,000 raised and $55,310 pledged for a total of $135,310. This means we have $64,690 left for people to pledge to reach the goal.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: bubbletea789 on May 26, 2015, 02:06:08 PM
I like this and think it's pretty fair.
I beg to differ with you. Because what if someone wants to be a seed investor and not being notified about it. Say those who already pledged 50k+, I think most will send you the fund immediately if requested, then we can get 30k more from the "seed investors". Why *DIDNOT* you consider that option?
I understand the importance of getting the work starting asap but this is not fair as it favours the "seed investors".


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on May 26, 2015, 02:47:52 PM
I beg to differ with you. Because what if someone wants to be a seed investor and not being notified about it. Say those who already pledged 50k+, I think most will send you the fund immediately if requested, then we can get 30k more from the "seed investors". Why *DIDNOT* you consider that option?
I understand the importance of getting the work starting asap but this is not fair as it favours the "seed investors".

The seed investors are taking on considerable risks, up to and including complete failure of the project to materialize. In that scenario they would suffer a total loss of investment. Those are risks that will not be present for the second-round BlockShare purchasers. So, it is perfectly reasonable that the seed investors will receive a greater percentage of equity per dollar spent to compensate for the increased risk profile of their investment. It's important for us to emphasize this paragraph once more:

Quote
We have not taken this route because we feel it is inappropriate to spend people's investment funds on a project that is clearly not yet funded to a degree that will permit the delivery of a functioning product that can bring a return on investment. Investment in such a scenario would be extremely risky, and we don't want to risk our reputation by taking such a high risk of not bringing a return on investment to a broad set of investors from our community. However, very high risk ventures are suitable for a limited group of people such as venture capitalists with ample funds whose lifestyle will not be adversely effected by a failure of the venture. They routinely take very high risks for a chance of a very high rate of return. This is the sort of opportunity a partially funded B&C Exchange represents.

We are proud of the reputations our team have established through our work on NuBits, NuShares, and Peercoin. Those reputations would be harmed if we accepted high-risk funding from users who may or may not be truthful about the impact a total investment loss would have on their personal finances. Some users would potentially lie about their financial situation to gamble on a higher return, and accuse us of irresponsible sales should the project fail. We want to avoid that scenario at all costs. The seed investors chosen are in a position to suffer a total loss without any adverse consequences to their financial well-being.

The structure we have finalized above is fair to both seed investors and second-round BlockShares purchasers. Using a seed investment strategy is a proven tactic in both traditional VC equity as well as cryptoequity projects like Nu, and now B&C Exchange.

Finally, it should be pointed out that the additional 10% equity that seed investors will receive is being allocated from the portion NuShareholders were scheduled to receive, reducing NuShareholders' stake from 50% of total equity to 40%. The total equity percentage received per dollar spent does not change for second-round BlockShares purchasers versus the original plan.

We hope you will still consider becoming a BlockShareholder despite your concerns about the new structure.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: Bisha on May 26, 2015, 03:23:27 PM
Have you thought about DPOS to fund the development?

Can you say a little more about how DPOS could fund development please? I am aware that refers to BitShare's delegated proof of stake mechanism. I understand that each delegate receives some compensation, but it is unclear to me how that would aid development.

As an aside, DPOS is a mechanism that improves scalability at the cost of a modest degree of centralization. Its scalability improvements are only useful in networks with considerably more transactions than Bitcoin processes currently (~100,000 per day). B&C will not employ DPOS initially to keep transaction processing more decentralized and flexible, but it is an option to increase scalablilty long term.

I agree with you that at the beginning it would end up being more centralized than desired given the few transactions and a large number of delegates wouldn't be useful as funds would be too distributed for them to play a significant role in develipment and in the other hand, a smaller amount of Delegates could increase centralization. Haven't thought about it that way, but I guess that wouldn't be useful to get things rolling as it could be difficult to finds a balance but maybe a bit of logistic could give us the answer.

I only mentioned it because I see some similarities with Delegates and Custodians so I would guess the degree of centralization (distribution would be more appropriate maybe?) would be the same. I understand, you have a cap on the number of delegates and wouldn't have on custodians if i'm not mistaken, however, you could possibly increase the number of delegates in the future. I'm not a technical guy and Nubits could even have nothing to do with B&C, but given the similarities I thought I would ask about it.

Thanks for the reply



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 67% funded
Post by: JordanLee on May 27, 2015, 03:55:18 AM
Yurizhai asks: (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/322)   

Quote from: Yurizhai
So, "immediately" - is development officially underway?

There are just a few issues that need to resolved for our Nu 2.0 release, particularly issue 167, 181, 188 and 199. When those are resolved, development will begin in earnest. The first iteration will consist of forking the Nu production blockchain into a testnet B&C Exchange blockchain. The next iteration will consist of the new voting types for B&C Exchange. The third iteration will focus on the first two or three messages unique to the B&C, such as the pairing of a BKS and BKC address and deposit public key lists. We will keep implementing new messages in the approximate order they would be used in until they are all done (so order fills will be done last).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: JordanLee on May 27, 2015, 04:08:03 AM
I only mentioned it because I see some similarities with Delegates and Custodians so I would guess the degree of centralization (distribution would be more appropriate maybe?) would be the same. I understand, you have a cap on the number of delegates and wouldn't have on custodians if i'm not mistaken, however, you could possibly increase the number of delegates in the future. I'm not a technical guy and Nubits could even have nothing to do with B&C, but given the similarities I thought I would ask about it.

B&C Exchange doesn't use delegates, but we will use custodians. Custodians are entities that receive either BlockCredits or BlockShares by direct shareholder vote on the blockchain. This is an established and proven technology that will be inherited from the Nu network. Custodians who receive BlockCredits from shareholders are expected to receive them for the purpose of selling them for $1 and distributing the sale proceeds to shareholders via the Bitcoin dividend mechanism that is being inherited from the Peershare template.

BlockShares will be granted to custodians by direct shareholder blockchain vote, typically to fund development or marketing. Custodial grants are a mature technology proven in Nu to be flexible and secure in funding whatever endeavors shareholders agree are beneficial.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 67% funded
Post by: richard_dein on May 27, 2015, 08:21:35 AM
I'm not sure I understand the situation at the moment. If I made a bid last time, do I still need to resubmit a bid now? Do I still get to keep my bid in the same price bracket?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: Bisha on May 27, 2015, 10:46:09 AM
I only mentioned it because I see some similarities with Delegates and Custodians so I would guess the degree of centralization (distribution would be more appropriate maybe?) would be the same. I understand, you have a cap on the number of delegates and wouldn't have on custodians if i'm not mistaken, however, you could possibly increase the number of delegates in the future. I'm not a technical guy and Nubits could even have nothing to do with B&C, but given the similarities I thought I would ask about it.

B&C Exchange doesn't use delegates, but we will use custodians. Custodians are entities that receive either BlockCredits or BlockShares by direct shareholder vote on the blockchain. This is an established and proven technology that will be inherited from the Nu network. Custodians who receive BlockCredits from shareholders are expected to receive them for the purpose of selling them for $1 and distributing the sale proceeds to shareholders via the Bitcoin dividend mechanism that is being inherited from the Peershare template.

BlockShares will be granted to custodians by direct shareholder blockchain vote, typically to fund development or marketing. Custodial grants are a mature technology proven in Nu to be flexible and secure in funding whatever endeavors shareholders agree are beneficial.

Exactly, meaning in both cases you need to trust third parties. Hence the similarities.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 67% funded
Post by: Yurizhai on May 27, 2015, 02:46:57 PM
I'm not sure I understand the situation at the moment. If I made a bid last time, do I still need to resubmit a bid now? Do I still get to keep my bid in the same price bracket?

You do not need to resubmit a bid. You are going to get more BKS for the same bid you made earlier, but the amount of total BKS has been increased meaning the percentage of shares you own remains the same. Essentially, nothing has changed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 28, 2015, 02:22:06 PM
Total funds committed have reached $147,643 including seed funds. We are now 73% of the way to our goal of $200,000.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 28, 2015, 02:38:00 PM
In response to some private messages we have received, we can confirm that we intend for B&C Exchange to trade both cryptocurrencies and cryptoequities if the demand exists.

Cryptoequity (decentralized shares in organizations or projects) trading is an excellent fit for the initial architecture of B&C Exchange because trades settle quickly within minutes. This is in contrast to traditional equity which can take 24 hours or more to transfer ownership. B&C Exchange will be well-suited to act as a decentralized stock exchange in addition to its focus on cryptocurrency trading. BlockShares and NuShares will be two cryptoequities that are initially supported, in addition to others.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 28, 2015, 08:01:29 PM
From Hibero: (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/323)

Quote from: Hibero
I would like to point out that I believe there is a mistake in the matrix.

Upon further review, Hibero is absolutely correct. Our table had a formatting error that led to an incorrect price being displayed.

For clarification, the current price is still $4.00. Approximately 16,805 BKS have been bid for in the first tier, leaving several thousand remaining at that price. Anyone who has received confirmation from us at $4.08 per BKS will now only need to pay $4.00 per BKS. Our apologies for the confusion. The original announcement has been updated accordingly.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: mhps on May 29, 2015, 03:26:51 AM
If at the end of Second-round fund raising B&C gets $120k but didn't sell all 80,750 shares, what will happen to the left-over shares?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 29, 2015, 04:59:02 AM
If at the end of Second-round fund raising B&C gets $120k but didn't sell all 80,750 shares, what will happen to the left-over shares?

If we meet our $200,000 fundraising goal and the blockchain is launched, shareholders can dictate what occurs with any currently undistributed BlockShares by casting a voting motion through the network.

The default decision will be to continue selling BlockShares until all ~80,750 shares are sold, in order to generate a healthy development fund for B&C Exchange. However, BlockShareholders could also vote to burn all undistributed shares at any point in time. This would increase each BlockShareholder's percentage of equity in the network, but decrease the amount of development funds available to improve the exchange beyond its minimum implementation. Should this occur, BlockShareholders could always vote for future custodial grants of new BlockShares to fund further development when they think it is needed.

BlockShares will provide its users with full control of B&C Exchange's operations and equity structure. Each BlockShareholder will essentially act as a decentralized manager of B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 29, 2015, 07:11:55 PM
BlockShareholders could always vote for future custodial grants of new BlockShares to fund further development when they think it is needed.

As an alternative, BlockShareholders could pass motions which instruct custodians who are selling credits on exchanges to hold the profits rather than distribute them as dividends. These profits could then be redirected to pay for development. It's possible that in the very beginning though that we wouldn't have enough profit to rely on spending only what came in. If that was the case then yes, shareholders could issue new BlockShares and sell them to raise funds. Later on though once the exchange is more profitable, shareholders could then instruct custodians to use the profits generated from credit sales to purchase BlockShares and burn them, thereby reducing the supply again. Share buybacks like this occur in the real world businesses and B&C will allow shareholders to simulate it.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 29, 2015, 07:59:33 PM
As an alternative, BlockShareholders could pass motions which instruct custodians who are selling credits on exchanges to hold the profits rather than distribute them as dividends. These profits could then be redirected to pay for development.

It should be noted that this would be contrary to the intent of our design document:

Quote
Care should be taken not to approve custodial grants of BlockCredits for any purpose other than sale and subsequent dividend distribution. If grants of BlockCredits were used to fund development or other expenses, the sale of BlockCredits by developers as they cash out to local currency might outpace the demand for BlockCredits at times and distort the sale price. Instead, development should be funded with BlockShares.

Your example is slightly different, but it would still introduce needless complexity. We want our marketing message to prospective investors to be as simple as possible: if you purchase BlockShares, you can earn Bitcoin dividends from the sale of $1.00 BlockCredits.

So, in our opinion revenue earned from the sale of BlockCredits should only be distributed to shareholders as dividends. These dividends will significantly enhance the public perception and market value of BlockShares. A higher market capitalization means that a lower amount of share dilution would be required to fund any necessary future development, if shareholders chose to pursue that outcome.

Of course, as the design document also says:

Quote
While this is our opinion about the best use of BlockCredits, it should be noted that the protocol permits shareholders to grant BlockCredits as they see fit. As with all Peershares implementations, shareholders will have their way and no one is in a position to promise how they will behave in the future.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 75% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 29, 2015, 08:16:30 PM
Total funds committed have reached $151,369 including seed funds. We are now over 75% of the way to our goal of $200,000!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 75% funded
Post by: Conqueror on May 29, 2015, 08:28:23 PM
Total funds committed have reached $151,369 including seed funds. We are now over 75% of the way to our goal of $200,000!

Nice!
25% to go :D


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 29, 2015, 11:26:08 PM
So, in our opinion revenue earned from the sale of BlockCredits should only be distributed to shareholders as dividends. These dividends will significantly enhance the public perception and market value of BlockShares. A higher market capitalization means that a lower amount of share dilution would be required to fund any necessary future development, if shareholders chose to pursue that outcome.

I agree that holding profits for a certain length of time in order to fund development could temporarily negatively affect the market cap of BlockShares. Consistent dividends would help ensure that the price per BlockShare stays above a certain level, which would make raising funds through BlockShare sales easier. Still, I wonder how regular of an occurence fundraising for development will be. If it happens regularly, then shareholders would need to continue purchasing more shares in order to keep up with the dilution. B&C seems like it will be in a more complete state than Nu was when it originally released, which leads me to believe new development wouldn't be a regular occurence. If it was though, are there any cases for share buybacks and burns that you can see, or do you imagine shareholders allowing the supply to continually increase?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 73% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 31, 2015, 05:42:56 PM
B&C seems like it will be in a more complete state than Nu was when it originally released, which leads me to believe new development wouldn't be a regular occurence. If it was though, are there any cases for share buybacks and burns that you can see, or do you imagine shareholders allowing the supply to continually increase?

It will be certainly interesting to see what BlockShareholders decide to do. Perhaps development is funded continually, or perhaps development isn't funded at all beyond the minimum state. Likewise, shareholders may choose to distribute dividends with revenues earned, or they may choose to use those funds to purchase shares on the open market and burn them to decrease the total BKS supply.

BlockShareholders have the final say in any of these decisions and we can't predict what they will choose. What is certain is that the decision they make will be the one they believe maximizes the value of their BlockShares.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 75% funded
Post by: BCExchange on May 31, 2015, 05:45:32 PM
There are several BlockShare pledges that are now just over 24 hours old and haven't been responded to. Some of these pledges are not properly formed so a dialog will be needed with the purchaser to finalize them. It is the first time we haven't been able to provide a response within 24 hours, but these pledges will be responded to in the next day. Thank you everyone for your patience.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 75% funded
Post by: Sentinelrv on May 31, 2015, 09:18:39 PM
Since you now have access to the seed fund, is the B&C logo being designed so we can run those ad banners?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 75% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 01, 2015, 03:19:48 AM
Since you now have access to the seed fund, is the B&C logo being designed so we can run those ad banners?

We are in the process of creating a B&C Exchange logo with a talented logo designer, yes. We can't provide an estimate for when it might be completed however. We will look at advertising publicly as soon as we're confident that we have created a professional quality brand that will have broad appeal.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 75% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 01, 2015, 03:21:33 AM
Total funds committed have reached $154,737 including seed funds. We are now over 77% of the way to our goal of $200,000.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: richard_dein on June 03, 2015, 12:39:08 PM
When will development begin?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 03, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
When will development begin?

From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11460328#msg11460328:

Quote
There are just a few issues that need to resolved for our Nu 2.0 release, particularly issue 167, 181, 188 and 199. When those are resolved, development will begin in earnest. The first iteration will consist of forking the Nu production blockchain into a testnet B&C Exchange blockchain. The next iteration will consist of the new voting types for B&C Exchange. The third iteration will focus on the first two or three messages unique to the B&C, such as the pairing of a BKS and BKC address and deposit public key lists. We will keep implementing new messages in the approximate order they would be used in until they are all done (so order fills will be done last).

We have already begun development of a B&C Exchange logo and basic website and they are progressing along nicely. We hope to present our logo here in the near future.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: cryptog1 on June 04, 2015, 08:06:07 AM
Is the name Blocks and Credits set in stone at this stage and is there any story behind the naming?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: irritant on June 04, 2015, 09:57:38 AM
Is the name Blocks and Credits set in stone at this stage and is there any story behind the naming?

i think it is ​Blocks & Chains


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: cryptog1 on June 04, 2015, 10:41:26 AM
Important Announcement

B&C Exchange has so far been unable to procure the minimum $200,000 required to develop a functioning exchange. In some ways continued delays reduce the chances of a successful outcome because the availability of the core team (Jordan, sigmike, erasmospunk and tomjoad) cannot be be assured in the future. These individuals need to pursue other opportunities if B&C Exchange is not prepared to pay them for their work now. So, in this sense it is imperative that funding be procured now so work can begin immediately. On the other hand, time brings with it greater opportunities to expose new potential investors to B&C. It means the funding opportunities increase with time but the probability of employing our proven team diminishes. This implies that a strategy that permits work to start now and funds to be raised later is optimal.

We have not taken this route because we feel it is inappropriate to spend people's investment funds on a project that is clearly not yet funded to a degree that will permit the delivery of a functioning product that can bring a return on investment. Investment in such a scenario would be extremely risky, and we don't want to risk our reputation by taking such a high risk of not bringing a return on investment to a broad set of investors from our community. However, very high risk ventures are suitable for a limited group of people such as venture capitalists with ample funds whose lifestyle will not be adversely effected by a failure of the venture. They routinely take very high risks for a chance of a very high rate of return. This is the sort of opportunity a partially funded B&C Exchange represents.

$80,000 has been procured from a small set of individuals who are certainly in a position to bear a total loss without any adverse consequences to their lifestyle, retirement, etc. These seed investors need to be rewarded for their high level of risk. Therefore, they will be given additional equity. They are purchasing 20% of the BKS for sale. Previously, giving half of the equity to BKS purchasers and half to NuShare holders was planned. This new plan will leave subsequent BKS purchasers unaffected, but it will reduce the equity of NuShare holders to 40% of initial total equity. This 10% of the total equity will be given to the seed investors, so they receive a total of 20% equity for their $80,000. This approach of using seed investment funds at the highest-risk beginning stages was proven to be successful in the development of Nu.

These funds will permit Jordan, erasmospunk, sigmike and tomjoad to begin work immediately. They will fund development for at least two months and perhaps three. The hope is that in that time interval the additional $120,000 needed to bring the project to a complete and workable state will be pledged and collected. Those investors will have considerably less risk because their funds will only be accepted if enough is pledged to complete the project. A marketing campaign will be conducted during the initial development phase to increase the chances of raising the needed additional $120,000. If the secondary funding drive fails and the project runs out of funding and is not completed, we won't have poisoned our relationships and reputation with a broad collection of investors because funds were only accepted from a tiny group well prepared to take extraordinary risk.

While we seek comment from the community and wish to gather the broadest support for the project by making any reasonable adjustments that may be suggested by the public, we wish to note moving forward only requires the approval of the seed investors. NuShare holders are involved because they will receive 40% equity, but they are being given that free of obligation, so their permission is not needed. We are not asking anything of NuShare holders, just as we are not asking anything of Bitcoin holders being given equity, although we believe the inclusion of these communities will bring tremendous benefit to B&C Exchange and we are indebted to these two communities for the gift of the code base we will fork as we begin development.

To summarize, initial equity will be now divided as follows:

GROUPFUNDING RECEIVEDMIN. FUNDING REQUIREDMAX. FUNDING POSSIBLENUMBER OF SHARESPERCENTAGE OF SHARES
Seed Investors$80,000 (Complete)$80,000$80,000~42,50020%
Second-round BlockShares Purchasers$55,310 (Pledged but not collected)$120,000$332,690~80,75038%
NuShareholders$0$0$0~85,00040%
Bitcoin Holders$0$0$0~4,2502%

Note that the funds pledged by second-round BlockShares purchasers will only be collected if $120,000 in pledges are reached. In combination with the $80,000 in committed capital from the seed investors, this would bring us to our goal of at least $200,000. Also note that the $55,310 already raised for second-round BlockShares purchases comes from the previous fundraising update totals.

For second-round BlockShare purchasers, here is the new sales schedule:

CURRENT COSTPREVIOUS COSTNUMBER OF SHARES
$4.00 (sold out)$5.00 (sold out)~20,187 (sold out)
$4.08$5.10~20,187
$4.16$5.20~20,187
$4.24$5.30~20,187

The current price is $4.08. Make a purchase by emailing bkssale@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested in the main announcement post.

Going into more detail, the cost of a given percentage of equity of second round BlockShare purchasers will not change in this updated plan. In order to maintain consistency in that regard, the number of BlockShares will need to be raised and their individual cost lowered. This is because the quantity of BlockShares given to NuShareholders is fixed: it was ~85,000 in the previous plan and will continue to be ~85,000 with this new proposal. However, the new plan reduces their equity percent to 40% from 50%. This requires the number of BlockShares given to seed investors, second round investors and Bitcoin holders be increased as shown above. Individuals who have already pledged funds will be eligible for the same percentage of BKS at the same price, but the quantity of BKS will be increased and the price per share lowered.

This chart says that the 4.00 usd rack is sold out whereas in fact my understanding is that it is not.
That should be edited since it does not reflect the exact information.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: hankrules on June 04, 2015, 11:54:48 AM
I'm dumb and can't read.  If I have nushares, do I get BKS?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 04, 2015, 03:48:48 PM
Is the name Blocks and Credits set in stone at this stage and is there any story behind the naming?

Irritant is correct. B&C Exchange is short for Blocks and Chains Decentralized Exchange. Our team went through a couple hundred ideas to decide on that name and we are happy with the branding potential. B&C Exchange is easy to remember, simple, and unlikely to cause language translation issues for non-English speakers. We had some great other name suggestions raised (and some downright terrible ones!) but ultimately landed on Blocks and Chains as a catchy, descriptive final moniker.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 48% raised!
Post by: BCExchange on June 04, 2015, 03:50:56 PM
This chart says that the 4.00 usd rack is sold out whereas in fact my understanding is that it is not.
That should be edited since it does not reflect the exact information.

We noticed this and changed it about a week ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11475948#msg11475948

Your browser might need to be refreshed or the cache cleared to access the most recent announcement thread.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 04, 2015, 03:54:39 PM
I'm dumb and can't read.  If I have nushares, do I get BKS?

Yes, if you own NuShares you are entitled to receive BlockShares when that network is launched. As the above table shows, 40% of all BlockShares will be redeemed automatically by NuShare holders.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: Hyena on June 04, 2015, 04:08:21 PM
Once I have received my blockshares, should I start mining right away or wait until someone publishes their data feed for voting?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 04, 2015, 06:48:17 PM
Once I have received my blockshares, should I start mining right away or wait until someone publishes their data feed for voting?

You can do whatever you like with your BlockShares, although we would expect that most users will begin minting immediately.

The most important initial custodial grants to watch will be those that ensure BlockCredit custodians have a regular, constant supply of BKC to sell for $1.00 on the market. It will be up to each individual shareholder to decide if they have the ability to monitor and vote on those requests, or if a data feed from a trusted community member should be selected to automatically configure their votes.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: sabreiib on June 05, 2015, 12:31:04 AM
Once I have received my blockshares, should I start mining right away or wait until someone publishes their data feed for voting?

You can do whatever you like with your BlockShares, although we would expect that most users will begin minting immediately.

The most important initial custodial grants to watch will be those that ensure BlockCredit custodians have a regular, constant supply of BKC to sell for $1.00 on the market. It will be up to each individual shareholder to decide if they have the ability to monitor and vote on those requests, or if a data feed from a trusted community member should be selected to automatically configure their votes.

I think you should build up a threshold, for example 500 BKS, only beyond that, a signer can be voted for. There is "long con" where an honest node plays very reliably but suddenly commit some bad things long after.

Just like cold minting, there maybe two BKS private keys, one for transaction(cold storage), one for signing multiple signature, the latter is exposed online computer and can prove a certain NKS holder/address does have so many BKS, so that he/she can be voted. As long as those BKS is transferred to anther address the old address (below threshold) automatically lose any qualification to sign.

Anyway, we don't like some hypocritical people with few BKS  get several/many signing  addresses.  The goal is build up a community where lots people have quite some BKS and they like mint and host  signing node and furthermore: provide BKC liquidity.   


What about build up a public BKS/BKC address which is  the company BKS of this DAO/DAC, we collect revenue into this address, BKS holders vote to how to spend these revenue, for dividend or software development.  BKS holders also need to pledge his BKS into this address in order to get some BKC and provide BKC liquidity.





Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 77% funded
Post by: cryptog1 on June 05, 2015, 01:58:07 AM
@bcexchange

Tks for your answers on the naming and the current unit price.
For the current unit price, I meant a direct editing of the chart to avoid any confusion.
Sorry for the lack of clarification from my side.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 80% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 07, 2015, 01:22:39 AM
Total funds committed have reached $161,348 including seed funds. We are now over 80% of the way to our goal of $200,000.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 80% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 07, 2015, 06:36:23 PM
With the total of $161,348 pledged, 20,334 BKS has been reserved. The price of each BlockShare is now $4.08.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 80% funded
Post by: Sentinelrv on June 08, 2015, 04:58:45 PM
Total funds committed have reached $161,348 including seed funds. We are now over 80% of the way to our goal of $200,000.

Wow, only 20% left to go! :o

If we somehow reach 100% before the banner ads are ready, will the advertisements be canceled? I imagine many shareholders would rather not advertise BlockShare sales after this goal is hit, as their share of the pie will only be diluted.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 80% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 08, 2015, 05:55:04 PM
Wow, only 20% left to go! :o

If we somehow reach 100% before the banner ads are ready, will the advertisements be canceled? I imagine many shareholders would rather not advertise BlockShare sales after this goal is hit, as their share of the pie will only be diluted.

From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11478415#msg11478415:

Quote
If we meet our $200,000 fundraising goal and the blockchain is launched, shareholders can dictate what occurs with any currently undistributed BlockShares by casting a voting motion through the network.

The default decision will be to continue selling BlockShares until all ~80,750 shares are sold, in order to generate a healthy development fund for B&C Exchange. However, BlockShareholders could also vote to burn all undistributed shares at any point in time. This would increase each BlockShareholder's percentage of equity in the network, but decrease the amount of development funds available to improve the exchange beyond its minimum implementation. Should this occur, BlockShareholders could always vote for future custodial grants of new BlockShares to fund further development when they think it is needed.

BlockShares will provide its users with full control of B&C Exchange's operations and equity structure. Each BlockShareholder will essentially act as a decentralized manager of B&C Exchange.

We will continue with our current plan unless BlockShareholders indicate a different course of action through shareholder motion, when the production blockchain is launched.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 82% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 09, 2015, 10:45:53 PM
Total funds committed have reached $164,388 including seed funds. We are now over 82% of the way to our goal of $200,000.

A basic website and logo are in development and are expected to be completed in the next couple weeks. We anticipate that their completion will speed up fundraising efforts considerably.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 82% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 10, 2015, 07:09:59 PM
We have launched a Twitter account that will become more active in the coming weeks: https://twitter.com/BC_Exchange.

Please consider following it if you would like to remain up to date on B&C Exchange development!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 82% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 10, 2015, 07:12:08 PM
An update on planned supported cryptoassets on B&C Exchange, taken from a discuss.nubits.com forum post:

Quote
A guiding principle of Peershare, Nu, and now B&C development is that we strive to uphold our public commitments. We want to avoid creating casual suggestions that may be misinterpreted by an external community and lead to disappointment if the suggestion doesn't materialize. With that in mind, here are a list of cryptoassets that we hope to support on B&C Exchange at or soon after release. These cryptoassets are currently planned to be listed on our upcoming BCExchange.org teaser webpage:

1. Bitcoin
2. Litecoin
3. Dogecoin
4. Peercoin
5. Dash
6. NXT
7. BitShares
8. NuBits
9. NuShares
10. BlockCredits
11. BlockShares

It's important to note however that B&C Exchange will be delivered in iterations, not one final product. As the teaser website will also state, support for these cryptoassets will rely on a number of factors outside of developer control, including whether the blockchains are currently secure, whether a sufficient number of signers have been established, and whether BlockShareholders have issued directives regarding offered trading pairs. It is impossible to guarantee with certainty that all these cryptoassets will have functional trading pairs.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 83% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 11, 2015, 03:21:27 PM
Total funds committed have reached $166,401 including seed funds. We are now over 83% of the way to our goal of $200,000.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 88% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 12, 2015, 02:13:47 AM
Total funds committed have reached $176,901 including seed funds. We are now over 88% of the way to our goal of $200,000.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 88% funded
Post by: JordanLee on June 12, 2015, 02:51:25 PM
With the Nu 2.0 release now code complete, the team has turned its attention to building B&C Exchange as quickly as possible.

The code and issue tracking (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange) is open to all. Feel free to observe the team's progress at any time.

Our first iteration, known as Milestone 3.0 in the repository, is completely defined. It will give us a B&C blockchain that gives 40% of BKS to NuShare holders and creates 60% as undistributed that will be distributed to those that have pledged funds for development. A simple user interface tool that will allow shareholders to select a NuShare wallet and convert it to a BlockShare wallet will also be included. When it is developed a test network will be created with it. The production network and blockchain will be created two or three weeks after our $200,000 minimum funding threshold is surpassed. At that point BlockShares will be liquid and transferable.

Our second iteration will focus on implementing the types of shareholder voting unique to B&C Exchange:

● number of confirmations required by blockchain ID
● number of total reputed signers of deposit addresses by blockchain ID
● number of required reputed signers of deposit addresses to effect a transfer by blockchain ID
● maximum trade size permitted by asset ID
● number of reputed signers eligible for reputed signer block rewards
● Reputation voting will also be added, which consists of up to three upvotes or downvotes, each associated with a BlockShare address. Details are included in the Reputation voting section.

The second iteration and all other iterations necessary for a minimum but complete set of functionality will be deployed to the test network but will not be promoted to the production network individually, because the network will not have the functionality needed to be open for business until all iterations are complete. Once all the iterations needed to produce a functional exchange are complete, the updates will be applied to the production network and blockchain.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 88% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 12, 2015, 07:43:27 PM
A side discussion has emerged on discuss.nubits.com regarding the use of funds raised above the $200,000 minimum.

Here is the introduction from the B&C Exchange thread on discuss.nubits.com. (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/413)

Quote from: JordanLee
Just as Nu development was greatly needed after our initial release in September, I'm sure additional development on B&C will also be essential. There are additional features which are very important like using time lock to release deposited funds regardless of what signers do. For instance, funds could be transferred from a deposit address to a withdrawal address one year after deposit. This would occur even if every single signer failed to sign. I have discussed how B&C can be used to guarantee Nu liquidity for a period of time and that is not part of the initial implementation. I suspect the escrow and reversible transaction capabilities are also very much worth pursuing but are unfunded at the 200,000 level. QA is also almost completely unfunded at that level (we are only paying for 8 hours a week at the 200,000 level). There are a lot of good reasons to continue getting additional funding. It will either have to be provided now or in a few months if B&C Exchange is to continue to flower.

We should use the time when B&C Exchange is novel and exciting to members of the community to get full funding.

Quote from: Sentinelrv
@JordanLee, this is makes sense, so thank you for explaining the details. I'm not completely opposed to this. I'm just trying to figure out which is the best way to go about it. Would you happen to have a rough estimate of how much funding over $200k we should be looking at in order to fund these additional initiatives? Putting numbers to these extra features and having a goal to shoot for is very helpful in understanding what we're trying to shoot for.

Quote from: JordanLee
My first priority for additional funds would be QA and marketing. Creating a solution where security and robustness is of paramount importance because exploits could be quite costly with 8 hours of QA per week is, to put it politely, quite novel. It certainly isn't commonly accepted practice. But at $200k, the choice isn't whether to have robust QA or not, the choice is between deciding it simply isn't enough to properly proceed and proceeding in a less thorough fashion with the hope that using low trade size limits when it is first used will be a sufficient method for testing it.

There are multitude of other ways the money could be spent besides what I just mentioned a couple hours ago in my post. For instance, how about a block explorer? Android client? More great ways to spend the money will be thought up as we go, so I am hesitant to commit to spending funds on specific items many months in the future.

We are interested in hearing prospective BlockShareholders' opinions on how those funds might be allocated. Potential uses could include new trading functionality, more extensive QA, or broader marketing campaigns.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 88% funded
Post by: mhps on June 12, 2015, 08:59:26 PM
We are interested in hearing prospective BlockShareholders' opinions on how those funds might be allocated. Potential uses could include new trading functionality, more extensive QA, or broader marketing campaigns.

I am for getting a barebone version out first, even its far from fully tested. There are always new features to add. Once B&C starts to demonstrate profitability, BKS would command much better price when sold for extra (>200k) funding. That is the time to get extra features and thorough testing. QA is incrediblly expensive, especially for anyone short on funding. However bugs are tolerated when you get a highly innovative useful product out. The alpha testers/users can try with testnet coins and find 90% of the bugs for 10%  or no cost.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 88% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 12, 2015, 10:57:33 PM
Total funds committed have reached $179,451 including seed funds. We are now over 89% of the way to our goal of $200,000.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 88% funded
Post by: sabreiib on June 13, 2015, 10:44:28 AM
With the Nu 2.0 release now code complete, the team has turned its attention to building B&C Exchange as quickly as possible.

The code and issue tracking (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange) is open to all. Feel free to observe the team's progress at any time.

Our first iteration, known as Milestone 3.0 in the repository, is completely defined. It will give us a B&C blockchain that gives 40% of BKS to NuShare holders and creates 60% as undistributed that will be distributed to those that have pledged funds for development. A simple user interface tool that will allow shareholders to select a NuShare wallet and convert it to a BlockShare wallet will also be included. When it is developed a test network will be created with it. The production network and blockchain will be created two or three weeks after our $200,000 minimum funding threshold is surpassed. At that point BlockShares will be liquid and transferable.

Our second iteration will focus on implementing the types of shareholder voting unique to B&C Exchange:

● number of confirmations required by blockchain ID
● number of total reputed signers of deposit addresses by blockchain ID
● number of required reputed signers of deposit addresses to effect a transfer by blockchain ID
● maximum trade size permitted by asset ID
● number of reputed signers eligible for reputed signer block rewards
● Reputation voting will also be added, which consists of up to three upvotes or downvotes, each associated with a BlockShare address. Details are included in the Reputation voting section.

The second iteration and all other iterations necessary for a minimum but complete set of functionality will be deployed to the test network but will not be promoted to the production network individually, because the network will not have the functionality needed to be open for business until all iterations are complete. Once all the iterations needed to produce a functional exchange are complete, the updates will be applied to the production network and blockchain.



Sounds great! I believe investing B&C is a smart choice.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 89% funded
Post by: cryptog1 on June 15, 2015, 07:10:49 AM
In my understanding, it seems that second round investors that provided the the first 120k risk dilution if we go beyond 200k.
Why?
Because they will have the same ownership whether the overal second round investors raise 120k or 332k.
Therefore an initial second round investor (that has contributed to the first 120k provided by second round investors) has no interest in giving more funding than the min required 120k.
Comparatively, seed investors need only to contribute 80k (already done) to get 20%.

In othe words, while the ownership of seed investors would stay at 20% no matter what, the secound round investors that provided the first 120k could see their ownership be reduced to 120/332=36% of what they could get in the best case (= the funding stops at 200k total). if the funding reaches the maximum amount  (worst case), which is 332k+80k=412k.

Is my understanding correct?

Tks for clarifying.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 89% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 15, 2015, 03:05:06 PM
In my understanding, it seems that second round investors that provided the the first 120k risk dilution if we go beyond 200k.
Why?
Because they will have the same ownership whether the overal second round investors raise 120k or 332k.
Therefore an initial second round investor (that has contributed to the first 120k provided by second round investors) has no interest in giving more funding than the min required 120k.
Comparatively, seed investors need only to contribute 80k (already done) to get 20%.

In othe words, while the ownership of seed investors would stay at 20% no matter what, the secound round investors that provided the first 120k could see their ownership be reduced to 120/332=36% of what they could get in the best case (= the funding stops at 200k total). if the funding reaches the maximum amount  (worst case), which is 332k+80k=412k.

Is my understanding correct?

Tks for clarifying.

This isn't correct. The percentages listed are what would be owned if every single share was sold and distributed for each group.

It's very important to stress that it is impossible for "dilution" to occur as BlockShares are purchased. Purchasers are buying a BlockShare for a set price based on the distribution tables we provided. If shareholders vote to burn undistributed BlockShares, the relative percentages for each group would change, but every group would have a higher percentage of equity of the network. The downside of course is that there would be less development funds to make B&C Exchange competitive, as per the suggestions of Jordan Lee above.

To help illustrate this, let's imagine a future scenario where the BlockShares chain is launched. The seed investors are slated to receive ~42,500 BKS at the date of the fork, NuShareholders will receive ~85,000 BKS and Bitcoin holders will receive ~4,250. Second-round purchasers are given their BlockShares, and let's pretend there are 20,000 BKS remaining unsold for that group.

If shareholders voted to burn those 20,000 BKS, the equity percentages would now be:

Seed investors - ~42,500 BKS - 22.1%
Second-round purchasers - ~60,750 BKS - 31.6%
NuShareholders - ~85,000 BKS - 44.2%
Bitcoin holders - ~4,250 - 2.2%

Each BlockShare would increase in worth from 0.000471% of the network (1/212500) to 0.000519% of the network (1/192500). Every BlockShare held by a user would be worth a greater percentage of the network. The trade-off is a lower development fund.

If you are still unclear on this please send us a PM.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 89% funded
Post by: cryptog1 on June 15, 2015, 03:38:32 PM
If shareholders vote to burn undistributed BlockShares, the relative percentages for each group would change, but every group would have a higher percentage of equity of the network.

I see. Tks for clarifying. It was not really clear since the ~ is difficult to interpret correctly.
So there is a still an incentive for everybody not to go far beyond 200k total at least from a financial perspective since you get more shares for the same money invested but this is to be decided by shareholders ultimately.
Also, what would not change is the price that seed investors got: 2 usd a share whatever the total raised money.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 15, 2015, 09:04:34 PM
Total funds committed have reached $190,247 including seed funds. We are now over 95% of the way to our goal of $200,000. Thank you everyone for your support!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: dengchangli on June 16, 2015, 05:26:42 AM
It looks good


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: dengchangli on June 16, 2015, 05:28:42 AM
How can I get this coin?just money?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 16, 2015, 05:55:58 AM
How can I get this coin?just money?


Thank you for your interest in B&C Exchange. There are four ways you can get BlockShares:

1) You can purchase BlockShares by emailing bkssale@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested in the main announcement post. The current price is $4.08 per BlockShare.

2) You can purchase NuShares on the open market on any exchange listed at https://nubits.com/exchanges/nushares-exchanges. Holding NuShares at the time of the creation of BlockShares will entitle its holders to a significant amount of BKS.

Edit (Thanks @Irritant): 3) You can purchase Bitcoin on the open market. Holding Bitcoin at the time of the creation of BlockShares will entitle its holders to a small amount of BKS.

4) You can wait until BlockShares are created and publicly traded on exchanges.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: irritant on June 16, 2015, 11:34:26 AM
How can I get this coin?just money?


Thank you for your interest in B&C Exchange. There are three ways you can get BlockShares:

1) You can purchase BlockShares by emailing bkssale@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested in the main announcement post. The current price is $4.08 per BlockShare.

2) You can purchase NuShares on the open market on any exchange listed at https://nubits.com/exchanges/nushares-exchanges. Holding NuShares at the time of the creation of BlockShares will entitle its holders to BKS.

3) You can wait until BlockShares are created and publicly traded on exchanges.

2b) Bitcoin holders too right, (they get total of ~4,250 BKS, 2%)?

four ways


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: Hyena on June 16, 2015, 11:48:29 AM

2b) Bitcoin holders too right, (they get total of ~4,250 BKS, 2%)?

four ways

giving bitcoin holders some shares is a very good idea. has this been done before? if so then which projects?
also why haven't altcoin creators done that more often? with proof of stake mining it makes perfect sense to have the initial coin distribution in accordance to the current distribution of bitcoins.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: usecoin on June 16, 2015, 02:05:49 PM
how many funds exactly to reach your needs?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 16, 2015, 03:08:44 PM
how many funds exactly to reach your needs?

Raising $200,000 will allow us to develop a basic version of B&C Exchange. We have raised 95% of this amount thus far. Completing the total fundraising of ~$412,000 will allow our development team to create additional useful trading features, perform more extensive QA, and engage in marketing campaigns.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: jubalix on June 17, 2015, 01:53:18 AM
how close is this project to

http://www.blockstream.com/blog/


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 95% funded
Post by: Nagalim on June 18, 2015, 04:18:14 PM
how close is this project to

http://www.blockstream.com/blog/

Block stream is a sidechain, B&C is an exchange.  They seem more different than similar in my opinion, but maybe I'm looking at it wrong.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 99% funded
Post by: BCExchange on June 19, 2015, 03:17:14 AM
Total funds committed have reached $197,985 including seed funds. We have now reached 99% of our goal of $200,000!

More detailed information regarding purchase finalization, BlockShare distribution dates, and other logistical issues will be provided here once $200,000 is exceeded in the near future. However, we can say that we will contact everyone who made a pledge as quickly as possible to arrange payment. We will give regular updates on how that is progressing and how many funds have actually been received. So, it would be very helpful for our team if prospective purchasers can ensure that they have ready access to their payment funds.

Important: If you have previously requested a purchase of BlockShares but are not planning on following through with that commitment, please let us know. Your privacy will be respected. We only wish to know so that our fundraising total can be adjusted downwards if necessary.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 99% funded
Post by: cryptog1 on June 19, 2015, 07:04:18 AM
I would have another question.

The white paper says "that the protocol must ensure that each exchange account is associated with at most one deposit address. Later iterations of B&C Exchange will allow the account holder to change the deposit address". (S)

That means that once a user generates a deposit address, the same address will be used also for ulterior deposits.
I suppose this is one deposit address for each blockchain ID by the way.

But what happens to a deposit address which was once acknowledged by a set of reputed signers at creation time when the user wants to use it at another time in which that set of reputed signers is no longer a set of reputed signers, in other words, that set of reputed signers can no longer sign that deposit address?
Shouldn't we create a new deposit address each time the user wants to make a deposit denominated in the same crypto asset or currency instead of using the same deposit address each time?
Or am I misunderstanding the meaning of (S).

Can you help me get some clarification about that ?
Tks.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on June 20, 2015, 07:17:02 PM
Good news! B&C Exchange has successfully completed basic fundraising, eclipsing our minimum fundraising goal of $200,000. Our current fundraising stands at $201,863. It is now time to collect funds from BlockShares purchasers to establish our development fund. Here is a quick summary of what to expect over the next 30 days.

Key Dates:

June 22nd - Payment information will be sent to all prospective BKS purchasers through the communication channel they contacted us through.
June 26th - Deadline for making payment on BKS purchases requested prior to this June 20th announcement. If payment is made after this date, current pricing will be used (currently $4.08) instead of the original price of the pledge.
July 3rd (end of day) - BlockShares creation date. In order to receive BlockShares by owning NuShares, you must own NuShares as of the end of Friday July 3 UTC. Care should be taken to ensure that all NuShares are removed from exchange accounts prior to this date; if this action isn't taken we make absolutely no promises about your ability to redeem NSR for BKS because an exchange owner may claim the BKS. Ensure you have full control of your NuShares in advance of this date.
July 19th - All BKS paid for by July 17th will be delivered by this date.

Exchange rates to be used for settlement (based on coinmarketcap.com price at 18:05 20/06/2015, the time of this writing):

BTC: $243.990
PPC: $0.408
NBT: $1.000

Fundraising will continue as has always been planned and announced. If BlockShareholders wish to cease fundraising they may do so with a shareholder motion after initial distributions are complete, plus 7 days to allow all transferred BlockShares to become eligible to mint. This would occur sometime around July 26th. Assuming fundraising continues to progress, shareholders can decide by motion how extra funds are allocated. As previously mentioned, there are a number of specific features we can implement with these funds, including enhanced trading options, better QA testing, and broader marketing campaigns. Implementing time lock release and an Android client are possibly among the most important items not funded at our basic $200,000 level.

We will be contacting everyone who made a pledge as quickly as possible to arrange payment. We will provide regular updates on how that is progressing and how many funds have actually been received. We are hopeful that our preliminary due diligence will result in the overwhelming majority of purchase pledges being upheld.

Thank you again to everyone who has supported B&C Exchange. Our team will work as hard as possible to create a decentralized exchange that will disrupt and revolutionize the trading of cryptocurrencies and cryptoequities.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: kjadB on June 22, 2015, 11:01:02 AM
Congratulations on reaching your target!

I haven't received an email with payment instructions yet, do I need to do anything?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: zoro1 on June 22, 2015, 09:55:40 PM
Congats!
and of course the best payment option is NBT ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on June 22, 2015, 11:49:33 PM
Everyone who pledged to purchase BlockShares has been contacted with a request for payment. If you pledged to purchase BlockShares but have not heard from us, please contact us at bkssale@vistomail.com or Bitmessage us at BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on June 24, 2015, 01:59:34 AM
Sportscliche said on Peercointalk that he hasn't gotten a reply back on Bitmessage...

https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4095.msg39847#msg39847

I haven't gotten any acknowledgement on Bitmessage, even after multiple attempts.  Is anyone else experiencing this?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: jubalix on June 25, 2015, 04:27:04 AM
so if people don't honor pledges are u going to open up sales again?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on June 25, 2015, 02:38:07 PM
Has anyone calculated how many nushares one should own in order to get 1 blockshare?

If so then what should be the price of 1 NSR considering that the cost of 1 BSR is/was 4$?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on June 25, 2015, 02:51:07 PM
As you can imagine, reaching our minimum funding goal has resulted in a sharp surge of correspondence for us to reply to. We have been working hard to reply to everyone promptly. The email queue is six hours long and the Bitmessage queue is 45 hours deep, the longest we have ever taken to respond to inquiries.

Part of what makes B&C Exchange a promising project is that the team behind it has proven its ability to deliver groundbreaking projects, namely the world's first stable value peer to peer currency in the form of NuBits. This also means the team has obligations to the Nu network, and that network had an urgent issue emerge the last couple of days that has required the team's attention.

It is a very busy time for the team, so please be patient.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on June 25, 2015, 04:06:21 PM
Has anyone calculated how many nushares one should own in order to get 1 blockshare?

If so then what should be the price of 1 NSR considering that the cost of 1 BSR is/was 4$?

JL mentioned somewhere 10000 nsr will get you 1b&c share.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on June 28, 2015, 04:45:21 AM
A total of $199,401 has been received so far. Of the $204,905 pledged, only $5,504 has not been paid so far. That means over 97% of pledges have been paid so far. We thank everyone for keeping their commitment. Additional requests to purchase BlockShares made in the last couple days should push us over the $200,000 threshold very soon.

The dev team is working to get a B&C Exchange test network up and running right now. The end of 3 July is the date of record for obtaining BlockShares by way of holding NuShares. We expect to have the production network up and running shortly after 3 July and have promised to deliver all BKS paid for by 17 July by 19 July.

This first iteration of B&C Exchange is designed to give shareholders direct possession of their BlockShares and to make their holding liquid. It will not contain any exchange features.

Subsequent iterations prior to the fully functional release will only be released on the public test network. The next iteration will include all of the voting features unique to B&C as described in an earlier post and in the design document posted in the OP.

All correspondence sent to us more than 3 hours ago has been responded to.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on June 28, 2015, 05:44:30 AM
A total of $199,401 has been received so far. Of the $204,905 pledged, only $5,504 has not been paid so far. That means over 97% of pledges have been paid so far. We thank everyone for keeping their commitment. Additional requests to purchase BlockShares made in the last couple days should push us over the $200,000 threshold very soon.

The dev team is working to get a B&C Exchange test network up and running right now. The end of 3 July is the date of record for obtaining BlockShares by way of holding NuShares. We expect to have the production network up and running shortly after 3 July and have promised to deliver all BKS paid for by 17 July by 19 July.

This first iteration of B&C Exchange is designed to give shareholders direct possession of their BlockShares and to make their holding liquid. It will not contain any exchange features.

Subsequent iterations prior to the fully functional release will only be released on the public test network. The next iteration will include all of the voting features unique to B&C as described in an earlier post and in the design document posted in the OP.

All correspondence sent to us more than 3 hours ago has been responded to.

I must say that is quite impressive. I expected fulfilled pledges to be high but not so close to perfect.  ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Arno0 on June 28, 2015, 04:12:45 PM
I have send you guys an email last night, hoping for a swift response  :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: noel57 on June 29, 2015, 05:37:49 AM
This is awesome, I can wait to see this been lunched because I will not be happy to miss this.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on June 29, 2015, 08:48:38 PM
OMFG i think i've just been scammed after i posted here i got a message from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=526637

But i think this might be a different users omg please tell me this isnt true!
I send him my LTC...........

Someone help please

We have no association with that account.

As mentioned in the original announcement, there are only two ways to purchase BlockShares: by emailing bkssale@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ.

It's unfortunate that some users will attempt to erode the enthusiasm we've developed for B&C Exchange so far by engaging in scams and theft. Please use caution when responding to any entity claiming to be a member of our team, and send a direct message to us on this account if you are uncertain.

We encourage everyone to report that fraudulent user to bitcointalk moderators.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on June 29, 2015, 09:12:03 PM
We have made a public announcement about this fraudulent user "BCExchanqe" here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1103670.msg11748442#msg11748442

It is critical that all prospective purchasers of BlockShares take the time to carefully read our main announcement. Communication about the purchasing of BlockShares will not occur in any channel other than the email and BitMessage address provided.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on June 30, 2015, 07:13:39 AM
Look out the scammers.

Will B&C team continue to report the new pledge after 20,000$?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on June 30, 2015, 04:19:59 PM
Will B&C team continue to report the new pledge after 20,000$?

Yes we will provide updated totals as fundraising progresses.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 01, 2015, 04:40:30 AM
Another question.

Distributing dividends in bitcoins implies connecting the B&C client to the Bitcoin client in the current design, I believe.
Since downloading the bitcoin client could be a problematic with the increase in block size (even now it is troublesome), would there be an easy way to enable users to specify any bitcoin addresses, including within B&C?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 01, 2015, 03:32:03 PM
Distributing dividends in bitcoins implies connecting the B&C client to the Bitcoin client in the current design, I believe.
Since downloading the bitcoin client could be a problematic with the increase in block size (even now it is troublesome), would there be an easy way to enable users to specify any bitcoin addresses, including within B&C?

Question answered here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11249649#msg11249649

Can the BlockShare holders get dividends in thier lightweight BTC wallets? Peershares export private keys to the Peercoin satoshi wallet. I hope the BlockShare shareholders don't have to have updated BTC satoshi wallet with its monster size blockchain.

I'm certainly aware that few BlockShare holders will be interested in hosting a Bitcoin node. While the B&C Exchange client will support export to the Bitcoin reference client because it requires no additional development, other Bitcoin key export methods are needed. The difficulty is every client that can handle Bitcoin keys will have a different way of permitting adding keys to the wallet. Probably the only practical choice initially is to export Bitcoin keys to the clipboard or text file. Then the shareholder can import that to whatever Bitcoin client they choose to use. It is possible that later the B&C Exchange client will support automated export of Bitcoin keys to a number of popular wallet applications.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 02, 2015, 02:09:03 PM
@bcexchange Tks.

I have checked. Electrum offers a very straightforward way to import a bitcoin private key according to [http://electrum.orain.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Can_I_import_addresses_from_other_Bitcoin_clients.3F]


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 02, 2015, 02:34:37 PM
"July 3rd (end of day) - BlockShares creation date."
Is that tomorrow that we get to download the blockchain?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 02, 2015, 03:11:29 PM
"July 3rd (end of day) - BlockShares creation date."
Is that tomorrow that we get to download the blockchain?

From before:

The dev team is working to get a B&C Exchange test network up and running right now. The end of 3 July is the date of record for obtaining BlockShares by way of holding NuShares. We expect to have the production network up and running shortly after 3 July and have promised to deliver all BKS paid for by 17 July by 19 July.

This first iteration of B&C Exchange is designed to give shareholders direct possession of their BlockShares and to make their holding liquid. It will not contain any exchange features.

The end of July 3 UTC is the date of record for obtaining BlockShares. The production network will be up and running shortly after, using that date and time to create the distribution. However, BKS will not be delivered until July 19 at the latest. We need to first create a B&C client that will allow shareholders to receive their BlockShares.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 02, 2015, 03:41:11 PM
The end of July 3 UTC is the date of record for obtaining BlockShares. The production network will be up and running shortly after, using that date and time to create the distribution. However, BKS will not be delivered until July 19 at the latest. We need to first create a B&C client that will allow shareholders to receive their BlockShares.

Got it. Tks for the info.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 03, 2015, 05:11:10 PM
The B&C Exchange test network is now operational. It is working as expected, which gives us confidence that the rollout of the release candidate blockchain and network will proceed smoothly.

If anyone is interested, you can run and mint on the test network now. 40% of the BlockShares created in the test network were granted to holders of production or mainnet NuShares. There is an import NSR wallet function off the File menu that NuShare holders as of June 27th can use to gain access to test BlockShares. The other 60% of testnet BlockShares are practice for creating shares that will belong to investors that paid for BlockShares. There isn't much point in distributing those to purchasers of BlockShares. However, anyone is welcome to request and receive testnet BlockShares for free from pennybreaker.

The B&C Exchange client for use on test net can be downloaded now for Windows or Linux (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads)

The distribution of release candidate BlockShares to NuShare holders will be based on share ownership as of the end of today, UTC (less than eight hours from now). Tomorrow we will begin the process of setting up the release candidate B&C Exchange blockchain. Once it is up and running manual distributions to those who purchased BlockShares will begin. Those who purchased BlockShares will receive a request for BlockShare addresses you would like to receive your BlockShares at, and then they will be sent. Please note that these will be release candidate BlockShares at first. Once we are confident the distribution was completed properly and the network proves to be stable, we will promote the release candidate blockchain to production status. We expect this process to take a couple weeks. No one should be a buyer of release candidate BlockShares from individual sellers because there is a chance the blockchain could be discarded and a second release candidate would be used with BlockShares distributed based on the centralized ledger we possess. Accordingly, exchanges should not be listing BlockShares during the release candidate period. If you wish to purchase BlockShares during the release candidate period you should buy them directly from B&C Exchange so that the transaction appears in the temporary centralized ledger that would be used in the case that a second release candidate blockchain becomes necessary.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mhps on July 05, 2015, 06:10:22 AM
seednode IPs would be useful.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: pennybreaker on July 05, 2015, 05:23:06 PM
Here you go ...

addnode=62.4.15.180


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 06, 2015, 07:13:30 PM
create a file called "bcexchange.conf" at
  • %appdata%\BCExchange\ if you are on Windows
  • ~/.bcexchange/ if you are on Linux
  • too lazy to look that up for MacOS (but that might be able to wait until somebody compiled the qt wallet or the daemon for MacOS ;) )

Contents of bcexchange.conf
Code:
rpcuser=yourUserName
rpcpassword=yourPassword
rpcport=yourPort (only required if Nu runs as well...)
addnode=62.4.15.180
testnet=1


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: gagalady on July 06, 2015, 07:21:00 PM
Looks interesting, where can I find info about the team?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 06, 2015, 08:23:41 PM
Looks interesting, where can I find info about the team?

If you are looking for info about the team, you might want to investigate Nu (https://nubits.com) as both lead architect (Jordan Lee) and team members that developed Nu are involved in B&C Exchange.
A good point to start might be https://docs.nubits.com/history/
You will recognize that a part of the Nu community, which had its part in Nu's success, will also be a part of B&C Exchange (due to the BKS that will be distriuted to the NSR holders and I bet some have invested in the funding).
This basis will be supplemented by lots of new community members and I bet we'll see some skilled new developers at B&C Exchange as well.
It really looks interesting!



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 06, 2015, 11:45:13 PM
Total funds received have reached $199,901.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 06, 2015, 11:55:40 PM
Looks interesting, where can I find info about the team?

Thank you @MasterofDisaster for linking the comprehensive History of Nu at https://docs.nubits.com/history/

B&C architect Jordan Lee's contributions to Nu are provided on that page. His open-source creations include Peershares (http://peershares.net), Nu (https://nubits.com), and now B&C Exchange. You can review all of his public discussion and correspondence on peercointalk.org and discuss.nubits.com too. He is a global leader in the creation of decentralized finance software.

Sigmike is a lead developer for Peercoin and Nu. He has built a well-deserved reputation of being one of the top cryptocurrency experts. His development skill is very highly regarded by both the Peercoin and Nu communities. One example of his ability was shown in his joint solution (beginning in Nu v0.4.0) with Jordan Lee to the "nothing-at-stake" problem faced by Proof-of-Stake cryptocurrencies.

Eramospunk is the creator of the popular open-source Coinomi wallet (https://coinomi.com/), and is also a senior core developer for Nu. If you haven't had the pleasure of using the Coinomi wallet on your Android phone, we would recommend checking it out.

Other marketing and QA team members have been actively involved with the Nu and Peercoin communities over the past few years. We are lucky to have a very talented group of professionals who work effectively together.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: gagalady on July 07, 2015, 12:26:16 AM
^^Thanks for the info! Is the crowdfunding over? How can I contribute my life savings?  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 07, 2015, 12:34:38 AM
^^Thanks for the info! Is the crowdfunding over?

We're glad you find value in our project! If you refer to the main post, there is information on purchasing BlockShares: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11153629#msg11153629

The current price per BlockShare is $4.08. You can make a purchase by emailing bkssale@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested in the original announcement, including your requested quantity of BlockShares, the asset type you will pay with (BTC, LTC, PPC or NBT), and finally a cryptocurrency forum username (bitcointalk, discuss.nubits.com, or others) that is a minimum of one week old as of the date of the main announcement. The email address and BitMessage address are the only two channels we will sell BlockShares through. We will never contact you in any other format or with any other address.

How can I contribute my life savings?  ;D

Probably not the best idea :) Invest responsibly. B&C Exchange is a very promising innovation, but it is still a highly speculative investment.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: hankrules on July 07, 2015, 08:23:42 AM
Would it make more sense to buy blockshares or nushares at this point?  As I understand, nushares will earn blockshares.  How will they be distributed to NSR?  A snapshot?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on July 07, 2015, 11:09:33 AM
Would it make more sense to buy blockshares or nushares at this point?  As I understand, nushares will earn blockshares.  How will they be distributed to NSR?  A snapshot?


Since B&C Exchange will utilize nubits, buying nushares is still a smart decision because there will be symbiosis between nubits and B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Nagalim on July 07, 2015, 02:57:40 PM
Would it make more sense to buy blockshares or nushares at this point?  As I understand, nushares will earn blockshares.  How will they be distributed to NSR?  A snapshot?


The snapshot has happened.  Buying nsr will not earn you bks any longer.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: hankrules on July 07, 2015, 04:18:41 PM
Would it make more sense to buy blockshares or nushares at this point?  As I understand, nushares will earn blockshares.  How will they be distributed to NSR?  A snapshot?


The snapshot has happened.  Buying nsr will not earn you bks any longer.

When was it done?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on July 07, 2015, 04:43:04 PM
Would it make more sense to buy blockshares or nushares at this point?  As I understand, nushares will earn blockshares.  How will they be distributed to NSR?  A snapshot?


The snapshot has happened.  Buying nsr will not earn you bks any longer.

When was it done?

July 3rd.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 07, 2015, 04:45:48 PM
Only a few posts above...

[...]
The distribution of release candidate BlockShares to NuShare holders will be based on share ownership as of the end of today, UTC
[...]

"End of today, UTC" was - like @Yurizhai said - July, 3rd.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 08, 2015, 03:00:23 PM
Total funds received have reached $200,401. We have now received the minimum $200,000 in funding. Thank you to everyone who has supported our project so far!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 08, 2015, 05:57:12 PM
http://i.imgur.com/vEV1Y6c.png

Today we are excited to unveil the logos for the B&C Exchange brand! Included are logos for B&C Exchange, BlockShares, and BlockCredits.

We chose to create a brand that expresses a simple boldness while still signalling innovation and creativity. These logos are intentionally much less complex than many standard cryptocurrency logos. This will ensure that they look sharp and clear even at small resolutions.

B&C Exchange is short for “Blocks and Chains Decentralized Exchange” and we’ve captured that name in the logo. There are several metaphorical interpretations possible for the B&C Exchange logo, including:

- A “block” created by the negative space in the middle, surrounded by two different colored “chains”.
- A price chart axis with a green (or navy) “up” arrow exploding to the right
- A decentralized network that is connected by different colored peers around the outside, with no centralized control in the center of the logo

The deep navy, vibrant green, and neutral white colors selected are designed to communicate two major categories of brand associations. The first category includes keywords such as professional, ethical, reputable, credible, and efficient.  The second category includes keywords like innovative, empowering, and futuristic.

Finally, we used the basic shape of the B&C Exchange brand to create two tokens:

BlockShares

http://i.imgur.com/66bA10y.png

BlockCredits

http://i.imgur.com/xDcCCk8.png

We have hosted the full package of logos temporarily on the Nu website while our website BCExchange.org is being finalized. Anyone is free to use these logos in whatever way they wish as long as no suggestion is made that B&C Exchange developers endorse the project, product, or service. The full package includes six different color variations on the primary logo as well as multiple icons. Download: https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/B%26C%20Logos.zip

We have also included a branding guide (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/B%26C_style_guide.pdf) that shows the basic building blocks of our brand. Here is a preview:

http://i.imgur.com/Qbr85pn.png

Thank you again to everyone who has supported our project. If you would like to become a shareholder of B&C Exchange, please read the main announcement in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.0) to find out how you can purchase BlockShares.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on July 08, 2015, 06:25:28 PM
Excellent design! Somehow I imagined something like this, minimalist and green/blue colors. I also love the various ways that it can be visually interpreted. Great job!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: MayDee on July 08, 2015, 11:52:07 PM
Excellent design!

+1


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 09, 2015, 07:54:36 PM
We have added a couple new logos to the branding package, including text versions of BlockShares and BlockCredits, as well as some additional transparency options.

For those who have already downloaded our logos, please delete the old logos folder and download the new one here: https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/B%26C%20Logos.zip

BlockShares (Text, White)

http://i.imgur.com/5MUJZBU.png

BlockShares (Text, Navy)

http://i.imgur.com/TWnt5XC.png

BlockCredits (Text, White)

http://i.imgur.com/Ec4qpcJ.png

BlockCredits (Text, Navy)

http://i.imgur.com/nGTKxqr.png


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 09, 2015, 08:54:00 PM
Total funds received have reached $200,401. We have now received the minimum $200,000 in funding. Thank you to everyone who has supported our project so far!
Congratulations - not completely unexpected if I might say... ;)

[...]
Today we are excited to unveil the logos for the B&C Exchange brand! Included are logos for B&C Exchange, BlockShares, and BlockCredits.
[...]
The logos and the way they are made look great -appealing, simple, focussed. B&C Exchange branding does have a lot of recognition value. Well done!
...now we need the same in software ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 10, 2015, 03:48:05 AM
May i ask when the web site is gonna be released ?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 10, 2015, 05:26:50 AM
May i ask when the web site is gonna be released ?

We've had a couple unexpected delays from the group designing it for us, but are now in the process of making modifications to a draft version and setting up hosting. The website will be released as soon as we possibly can.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 10, 2015, 05:34:21 AM
May i ask when the web site is gonna be released ?

We've had a couple unexpected delays from the group designing it for us, but are now in the process of making modifications to a draft version and setting up hosting. The website will be released as soon as we possibly can.

ok tks for the update!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 11, 2015, 04:28:18 PM
We are excited to announce that our team has finalized a release candidate blockchain for BlockShares as well as an accompanying basic branded B&C Exchange client. As a result we are now ready to begin distributing release candidate BlockShares to owners. To start with, here are the B&C Exchange client downloads and source code:

Download (Windows) (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-win-gitian.zip)

Download (Linux) (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-linux-gitian.zip)

OS X download coming soon

Source Code (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/src)


There are three different ownership groups outlined in our original announcement, and each group will have a slightly different method of acquiring their release candidate BlockShares.

1. NuShareholders

All NuShareholders who held NSR at the end of July 3 UTC are entitled to a proportional amount of BlockShares. Just like Peercoin dividends have been automatically distributed to NuShareholders, BlockShares have also been distributed as a dividend.

Users can redeem their BKS by downloading the B&C client and then selecting File > Import NuShares Wallet. An updated BKS total will then be displayed in the client. Minting begins at 18:00 UTC today (11 July)

2. BlockShare purchasers

If you purchased BlockShares directly you will soon receive a request for BlockShare addresses that you would like to receive your BlockShares at. To do this, you will need to download the B&C Exchange client and generate a few new BlockShare addresses to send to the B&C Exchange team. After we receive those addresses, BKS will be sent as soon as possible.

In the interest of ensuring a quick and fair distribution, please make sure that you do not send BlockCredit addresses by mistake. BlockShare addresses are those that begin with the number “8”.

3. Bitcoin holders

This will be delayed until we have Bitcoin signers set up. We cannot distribute to Bitcoin holders until the exchange is operational.


Caution: The blockchain is a only a release candidate


This is a release candidate blockchain, which means that it may not be the final production version if problems with the distribution are discovered.
Once we are confident the distribution was completed properly and the network proves to be stable, we will promote the release candidate blockchain to production status. We expect this process to take a couple weeks. No one should be a buyer of release candidate BlockShares from individual sellers because there is a chance the blockchain could be discarded and a second release candidate would be used with BlockShares distributed based on the centralized ledger we possess. Accordingly, exchanges should not be listing BlockShares during the release candidate period. If you wish to purchase BlockShares during the release candidate period you should buy them directly from B&C Exchange so that the transaction appears in the temporary centralized ledger that would be used in the case that a second release candidate blockchain becomes necessary.

This initial distribution is the first step towards our goal of making B&C Exchange the best decentralized exchange in the world. While this release has none of the planned trading functionality included, it does allow BlockShareholders to own a liquid equity asset and to contribute their thoughts on development priorities through motions.

Going forward, the features described in the design paper will be developed in many iterations which will be individually applied to the test network in a sequential manner. Once a functional exchange has been built on the test network, we will update the production network with all the changes at once. At the moment we are working on two independent iterations in parallel. Sigmike is developing the reputation system, including its voting and block reward subsystems. Giannis will be developing the other voting items unique to B&C Exchange, which include number of confirmations required for each blockchain, number of signers required for transfers for each blockchain, total number of signers for each blockchain and max trade sizes for each asset. All voting can be configured manually or by data feed.

After those iterations are complete, we will begin to implement the messages unique to B&C Exchange as described in the design paper.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sportscliche on July 12, 2015, 12:34:23 AM
I have the linux 32-bit binary up and running, but seem to have a problem with the NuShares import.  I click as instructed, provide my wallet password, and see the import process has initiated on the console [rescan=true].  No BlockShares appear in my wallet and no error message.  6 active connections to B&C network.  And yes, there are a substantial number of NuShares present and minting.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Nagalim on July 12, 2015, 02:55:09 AM
Is your B&C client encrypted?  If so, you need to use walletpassphrase in the debug window.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sportscliche on July 12, 2015, 03:51:38 AM
Is your B&C client encrypted?  If so, you need to use walletpassphrase in the debug window.

The B&C client will ask for the passphrase automatically when importing the NuShares wallet.  I tried to unlock it again in the debug window but it gave me "Error: Portfolio is already unlocked..."


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on July 12, 2015, 04:46:55 AM
Is your B&C client encrypted?  If so, you need to use walletpassphrase in the debug window.

I've tried it every which way. Both unlocked, one or the other locked, Nu client closed, Nu open, nothing seems to work.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on July 12, 2015, 07:22:36 AM
I got it to work following this https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/492?u=yurizhai !


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: salsero on July 12, 2015, 02:05:49 PM
So say I have 40k Nushares how many BKS am I supposed to get? when I imported my wallet I only got about 4 bks..



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Nagalim on July 12, 2015, 02:48:59 PM
The import password should be your nushares wallet password.  The wallet itself needs to be unlocked totally, not just for minting only, but this is only a problem if you encrypted your wallet.  If your nsr wallet password has spaces, you should use double quotes (") around the password.

4 bks = 40k nsr is correct.  1 BKS is all you need to vote and receive rewards.  I received a 0.01 BKS reward for my first mint, so I think they increased the reward (NSR reward is 40, which equates to 0.004 BKS)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: salsero on July 12, 2015, 03:23:27 PM
The import password should be your nushares wallet password.  The wallet itself needs to be unlocked totally, not just for minting only, but this is only a problem if you encrypted your wallet.  If your nsr wallet password has spaces, you should use double quotes (") around the password.

4 bks = 40k nsr is correct.  1 BKS is all you need to vote and receive rewards.  I received a 0.01 BKS reward for my first mint, so I think they increased the reward (NSR reward is 40, which equates to 0.004 BKS)

Thanks I wasn't sure. I'll try staking and see what I get.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sportscliche on July 12, 2015, 06:37:00 PM
I got it to work without having to restart or reinstall.  Both clients must be running and all operations are done from the console.  In the nu client, type

walletlock

Then completely unlock the wallet.  Place your passphrase inside quotes as noted above.  600 second timeout should be plenty of time to complete the process.

walletpassphrase "**************" 600

Now repeat the above two commands in the B&C client.  The next command imports the NuShares wallet.  I had to specify the complete path to the wallet, eg. /home/username/.nu/walletS.dat, where username is the unique login name (This path is for a typical Linux setup; Windows will be different).  The last field is the password, again enclosed in quotes:

importnusharewallet path-to-wallet-file "**************"

The Blockshares should appear in less than a minute.  One can then unlock both clients for minting only as usual.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on July 12, 2015, 07:36:55 PM
Can the keys be improted with dumpprivatekey and importprivatekey commands?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NewShareUser on July 12, 2015, 09:17:10 PM
Hello, I downloaded the B&C Exchange wallet, and want to get my Blockshares

I clicked File and selected Import NuShares wallet. This brought up a box pointed at the Nu directory on my C drive, with various .dat files to choose from:

addr.dat
blk0001.dat
blkindex.dat
walletB.dat
walletC.dat

I do not know which, if any, of these represent my NuShares wallet. Can anyone assist?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: salsero on July 12, 2015, 10:20:54 PM
Hello, I downloaded the B&C Exchange wallet, and want to get my Blockshares

I clicked File and selected Import NuShares wallet. This brought up a box pointed at the Nu directory on my C drive, with various .dat files to choose from:

addr.dat
blk0001.dat
blkindex.dat
walletB.dat
walletC.dat

I do not know which, if any, of these represent my NuShares wallet. Can anyone assist?

looks like you are in the wrong directory. you need to go up one directory then go into nu directory then select walletS.dat (That's the new share wallet)



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: hankrules on July 12, 2015, 10:22:45 PM
Hello, I downloaded the B&C Exchange wallet, and want to get my Blockshares

I clicked File and selected Import NuShares wallet. This brought up a box pointed at the Nu directory on my C drive, with various .dat files to choose from:

addr.dat
blk0001.dat
blkindex.dat
walletB.dat
walletC.dat

I do not know which, if any, of these represent my NuShares wallet. Can anyone assist?

looks like you are in the wrong directory. you need to go up one directory then go into nu directory then select walletS.dat (That's the new share wallet)



yep.  this worked for me :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: vaporware asset wizard on July 13, 2015, 07:16:49 AM
We are excited to announce that our team has finalized a release candidate blockchain for BlockShares as well as an accompanying basic branded B&C Exchange client. As a result we are now ready to begin distributing release candidate BlockShares to owners. To start with, here are the B&C Exchange client downloads and source code:

Download (Windows) (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC1-win-gitian.zip)

Download (Linux) (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC1-linux-gitian.zip)

OS X download coming soon

Source Code (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/src)


There are three different ownership groups outlined in our original announcement, and each group will have a slightly different method of acquiring their release candidate BlockShares.

1. NuShareholders

All NuShareholders who held NSR at the end of July 3 UTC are entitled to a proportional amount of BlockShares. Just like Peercoin dividends have been automatically distributed to NuShareholders, BlockShares have also been distributed as a dividend.

Users can redeem their BKS by downloading the B&C client and then selecting File > Import NuShares Wallet. An updated BKS total will then be displayed in the client. Minting begins at 18:00 UTC today (11 July)

2. BlockShare purchasers

If you purchased BlockShares directly you will soon receive a request for BlockShare addresses that you would like to receive your BlockShares at. To do this, you will need to download the B&C Exchange client and generate a few new BlockShare addresses to send to the B&C Exchange team. After we receive those addresses, BKS will be sent as soon as possible.

In the interest of ensuring a quick and fair distribution, please make sure that you do not send BlockCredit addresses by mistake. BlockShare addresses are those that begin with the number “8”.

3. Bitcoin holders

This will be delayed until we have Bitcoin signers set up. We cannot distribute to Bitcoin holders until the exchange is operational.


Caution: The blockchain is a only a release candidate


This is a release candidate blockchain, which means that it may not be the final production version if problems with the distribution are discovered.
Once we are confident the distribution was completed properly and the network proves to be stable, we will promote the release candidate blockchain to production status. We expect this process to take a couple weeks. No one should be a buyer of release candidate BlockShares from individual sellers because there is a chance the blockchain could be discarded and a second release candidate would be used with BlockShares distributed based on the centralized ledger we possess. Accordingly, exchanges should not be listing BlockShares during the release candidate period. If you wish to purchase BlockShares during the release candidate period you should buy them directly from B&C Exchange so that the transaction appears in the temporary centralized ledger that would be used in the case that a second release candidate blockchain becomes necessary.

This initial distribution is the first step towards our goal of making B&C Exchange the best decentralized exchange in the world. While this release has none of the planned trading functionality included, it does allow BlockShareholders to own a liquid equity asset and to contribute their thoughts on development priorities through motions.

Going forward, the features described in the design paper will be developed in many iterations which will be individually applied to the test network in a sequential manner. Once a functional exchange has been built on the test network, we will update the production network with all the changes at once. At the moment we are working on two independent iterations in parallel. Sigmike is developing the reputation system, including its voting and block reward subsystems. Giannis will be developing the other voting items unique to B&C Exchange, which include number of confirmations required for each blockchain, number of signers required for transfers for each blockchain, total number of signers for each blockchain and max trade sizes for each asset. All voting can be configured manually or by data feed.

After those iterations are complete, we will begin to implement the messages unique to B&C Exchange as described in the design paper.

Is BKC PoW or PoS coin?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 13, 2015, 07:59:36 AM
Is BKC PoW or PoS coin?
Being a fork of NuBits, which was forked from the Peershares template, which was forked from Peercoin it inherited the consensus mechanism.
It's PoS.
But B&C Exchange is more a distributed autonomous corporation than a "coin".
The part of B&C Exchange that represents the shares of that corporation are the BKS.
BKC are the units that are required to pay for trades on B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NewShareUser on July 13, 2015, 11:30:04 AM
Hello, I downloaded the B&C Exchange wallet, and want to get my Blockshares

I clicked File and selected Import NuShares wallet. This brought up a box pointed at the Nu directory on my C drive, with various .dat files to choose from:

addr.dat
blk0001.dat
blkindex.dat
walletB.dat
walletC.dat

I do not know which, if any, of these represent my NuShares wallet. Can anyone assist?

looks like you are in the wrong directory. you need to go up one directory then go into nu directory then select walletS.dat (That's the new share wallet)



yep.  this worked for me :)

Sorry, I made a typo in the above list of .dat files - the last one is not walletC.dat but walletS.dat

I retried the import, directing to walletS.dat, and a box appeared asking for a password - I presume this is the NuShares client password. I typed it in, and it said that the import process had started, and that I should check the debug window. I did, but it said:

importnusharewallet <NuShares wallet file> [walletpassword] [rescan=true]
Import NuShares walletS.dat
Password is only required if wallet is encrypted
(code -1)

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: salsero on July 13, 2015, 02:09:20 PM
Hello, I downloaded the B&C Exchange wallet, and want to get my Blockshares

I clicked File and selected Import NuShares wallet. This brought up a box pointed at the Nu directory on my C drive, with various .dat files to choose from:

addr.dat
blk0001.dat
blkindex.dat
walletB.dat
walletC.dat

I do not know which, if any, of these represent my NuShares wallet. Can anyone assist?

looks like you are in the wrong directory. you need to go up one directory then go into nu directory then select walletS.dat (That's the new share wallet)



yep.  this worked for me :)

Sorry, I made a typo in the above list of .dat files - the last one is not walletC.dat but walletS.dat

I retried the import, directing to walletS.dat, and a box appeared asking for a password - I presume this is the NuShares client password. I typed it in, and it said that the import process had started, and that I should check the debug window. I did, but it said:

importnusharewallet <NuShares wallet file> [walletpassword] [rescan=true]
Import NuShares walletS.dat
Password is only required if wallet is encrypted
(code -1)

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain?

I think this is a bug. I also had that issue when I tried to use the 32 bit client, but the 64 bit client worked fine for me. So try the 64 bit client first if that doesn't work go up a few post and people talking about the issue and how they got it to work.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on July 13, 2015, 04:54:55 PM
Hello, I downloaded the B&C Exchange wallet, and want to get my Blockshares

I clicked File and selected Import NuShares wallet. This brought up a box pointed at the Nu directory on my C drive, with various .dat files to choose from:

addr.dat
blk0001.dat
blkindex.dat
walletB.dat
walletC.dat

I do not know which, if any, of these represent my NuShares wallet. Can anyone assist?

looks like you are in the wrong directory. you need to go up one directory then go into nu directory then select walletS.dat (That's the new share wallet)



yep.  this worked for me :)

Sorry, I made a typo in the above list of .dat files - the last one is not walletC.dat but walletS.dat

I retried the import, directing to walletS.dat, and a box appeared asking for a password - I presume this is the NuShares client password. I typed it in, and it said that the import process had started, and that I should check the debug window. I did, but it said:

importnusharewallet <NuShares wallet file> [walletpassword] [rescan=true]
Import NuShares walletS.dat
Password is only required if wallet is encrypted
(code -1)

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain?

When putting in your password, try using quotes around it. Apparently if your password has a space in it you must do this. So for example if your password was thyroid cancer, try putting in "thyroid cancer" . That is what worked for me.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NewShareUser on July 13, 2015, 09:48:14 PM
My password is continuous (no spaces) - I tried it with the quote marks anyway, but unfortunately no progress

I think this is a bug. I also had that issue when I tried to use the 32 bit client, but the 64 bit client worked fine for me. So try the 64 bit client first if that doesn't work go up a few post and people talking about the issue and how they got it to work.

I thought 64 bit programs were not supposed to work on 32 bit computers? I am reluctant to try this, in case I bust something


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NewShareUser on July 13, 2015, 10:04:08 PM
I got it to work without having to restart or reinstall.  Both clients must be running and all operations are done from the console.  In the nu client, type

walletlock

Then completely unlock the wallet.  Place your passphrase inside quotes as noted above.  600 second timeout should be plenty of time to complete the process.

walletpassphrase "**************" 600

Now repeat the above two commands in the B&C client.  The next command imports the NuShares wallet.  I had to specify the complete path to the wallet, eg. /home/username/.nu/walletS.dat, where username is the unique login name (This path is for a typical Linux setup; Windows will be different).  The last field is the password, again enclosed in quotes:

importnusharewallet path-to-wallet-file "**************"

The Blockshares should appear in less than a minute.  One can then unlock both clients for minting only as usual.

I have a few questions on the above:

1) Why do we have to type walletlock, if we are about to unlock the wallets?

2) Do we have to unlock the wallets if they are not encrypted? My NSR wallet is encrypted - but the B&C client is not, so do I have to type the two commands (walletlock and walletpassphrase, etc.) for my B&C client?

3) Regarding importnusharewallet, is the password we have to put in for the NuShares client, or the B&C client (I presume the NuShares client, but mine is not working, so far)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BAYproviser on July 13, 2015, 11:15:10 PM
I got it to work without having to restart or reinstall.  Both clients must be running and all operations are done from the console.  In the nu client, type

walletlock

Then completely unlock the wallet.  Place your passphrase inside quotes as noted above.  600 second timeout should be plenty of time to complete the process.

walletpassphrase "**************" 600

Now repeat the above two commands in the B&C client.  The next command imports the NuShares wallet.  I had to specify the complete path to the wallet, eg. /home/username/.nu/walletS.dat, where username is the unique login name (This path is for a typical Linux setup; Windows will be different).  The last field is the password, again enclosed in quotes:

importnusharewallet path-to-wallet-file "**************"

The Blockshares should appear in less than a minute.  One can then unlock both clients for minting only as usual.

I have a few questions on the above:

1) Why do we have to type walletlock, if we are about to unlock the wallets?

2) Do we have to unlock the wallets if they are not encrypted? My NSR wallet is encrypted - but the B&C client is not, so do I have to type the two commands (walletlock and walletpassphrase, etc.) for my B&C client?

3) Regarding importnusharewallet, is the password we have to put in for the NuShares client, or the B&C client (I presume the NuShares client, but mine is not working, so far)



if you only have your NSR wallet encrypted you don't need to unlock bcexchange client only put in your passphrase password
once you import your nsr wallet.dat to bcexhange client if your bcexchange is lock you need too unlpck it from the main console with your b&c   walletpassphrase "**************" 600 first then import your nsr wallet.dat to bcexhange then use your passphrase password foryour nsr wallet.dat


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: kennyP on July 14, 2015, 02:26:46 AM
any way to buy block credits yet?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sportscliche on July 14, 2015, 03:31:01 AM

I have a few questions on the above:

1) Why do we have to type walletlock, if we are about to unlock the wallets?

2) Do we have to unlock the wallets if they are not encrypted? My NSR wallet is encrypted - but the B&C client is not, so do I have to type the two commands (walletlock and walletpassphrase, etc.) for my B&C client?


1) I did this in case either or both wallets were unlocked for minting-only.  When I tried to completely unlock the NSR wallet when it was already partially unlocked, it complained.  So I locked it entirely, then unlocked it entirely. 

2) I haven't tried anything with unencypted wallets...just too much risk for my comfort level.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: andyatcrux on July 14, 2015, 03:53:47 AM
If anyone would like to unload some or all of their Blockshares, PM me. Looking to pay .012 BTC per share, up to 1 BTC worth. (Sorry OP if this seems inappropriate, I just don't want to buy $500 worth at the moment).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 14, 2015, 04:16:43 AM
If anyone would like to unload some or all of their Blockshares, PM me. Looking to pay .012 BTC per share, up to 1 BTC worth. (Sorry OP if this seems inappropriate, I just don't want to buy $500 worth at the moment).

We have no problem with users looking to set up private BKS sales in this thread, as long as they are taking proper precautions to set up trusted escrow facilitators. However, we strongly discourage any trading at the moment because the blockchain is still only a release candidate. From our recent announcement:


Caution: The blockchain is a only a release candidate


This is a release candidate blockchain, which means that it may not be the final production version if problems with the distribution are discovered.
Once we are confident the distribution was completed properly and the network proves to be stable, we will promote the release candidate blockchain to production status. We expect this process to take a couple weeks. No one should be a buyer of release candidate BlockShares from individual sellers because there is a chance the blockchain could be discarded and a second release candidate would be used with BlockShares distributed based on the centralized ledger we possess. Accordingly, exchanges should not be listing BlockShares during the release candidate period. If you wish to purchase BlockShares during the release candidate period you should buy them directly from B&C Exchange so that the transaction appears in the temporary centralized ledger that would be used in the case that a second release candidate blockchain becomes necessary.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: andyatcrux on July 14, 2015, 05:16:02 AM
If anyone would like to unload some or all of their Blockshares, PM me. Looking to pay .012 BTC per share, up to 1 BTC worth. (Sorry OP if this seems inappropriate, I just don't want to buy $500 worth at the moment).

We have no problem with users looking to set up private BKS sales in this thread, as long as they are taking proper precautions to set up trusted escrow facilitators. However, we strongly discourage any trading at the moment because the blockchain is still only a release candidate. From our recent announcement:


Caution: The blockchain is a only a release candidate


This is a release candidate blockchain, which means that it may not be the final production version if problems with the distribution are discovered.
Once we are confident the distribution was completed properly and the network proves to be stable, we will promote the release candidate blockchain to production status. We expect this process to take a couple weeks. No one should be a buyer of release candidate BlockShares from individual sellers because there is a chance the blockchain could be discarded and a second release candidate would be used with BlockShares distributed based on the centralized ledger we possess. Accordingly, exchanges should not be listing BlockShares during the release candidate period. If you wish to purchase BlockShares during the release candidate period you should buy them directly from B&C Exchange so that the transaction appears in the temporary centralized ledger that would be used in the case that a second release candidate blockchain becomes necessary.

Thanks, missed that. I will take the advice and rescind my offer.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: luffy on July 14, 2015, 05:39:58 AM
i presume also that stake profits will be invalid if blockchain is to change?
very good work, nevertheless


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: yohanip on July 14, 2015, 06:11:47 AM
NXT platform have this kind of decentralized exchange using the thing the doc called as a 'proxy' coin, it's main weakness was the execution time, given the confirmation time a cryptocoin needs to become valid, will this exchange provides better execution speed? with the minimal fees? if that's the case i am in for the long.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 14, 2015, 08:18:02 AM
NXT platform have this kind of decentralized exchange using the thing the doc called as a 'proxy' coin, it's main weakness was the execution time, given the confirmation time a cryptocoin needs to become valid, will this exchange provides better execution speed? with the minimal fees? if that's the case i am in for the long.
My understanding might be wrong, but in that case B&C Exchange might correct that.
At B&C Exchange deposits remain in the blockchain of the associated coin - the deposit addresses are multisignature addresses. Those transactions are signed by reputed signers.
If somebody deposits BTC at a "B&C Exchange" deposit address, a transaction is made to a BTC multisignature address. That's the reason why reputed signers need to run blockchains for all coins they intend to support by their signatures.

Trades that happen require transactions to be made on these blockchains.
Depending on the number of confirmations that are required (configured by ongoing votes of the BKS holders that keep the B&C Exchange blockchain running), it might take some time, before these coins can be traded again.

Obviously such a decentralized exchange is slower than a centralized exchange. It's not made for high frequency trading.
The advantages over centralized architecture are
  • the is low risk of exchange default
  • once OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY is used for a secure return of deposited funds in case too many reputed signers fail, there's very little risk of losing deposited funds (only reputed signers that collude remains, from an exchange point of view)
  • presumably low fees for high volume transactions; centralized exchanges require a fee per trading volume (in USD) whereas B&C Exchange is collecting a fee per transaction size

Tell me: would you rather trade high USD values of coins at a centralied exchange or at B&C Exchange? ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on July 14, 2015, 08:52:14 AM
For example, I've sent 10 Btc to B&C to place ltc buy order, those 10btc held by 16 signers before my transaction is completed, and you also have 20btc held by the same 16 signers.

Now I wanna send you 1btc. Can I inform 16 signers that just update our balance? i.e. , those 16 signers confirm I have 9 btc and you have 21 btc now?

Those 16 signers would probably say: no. My 1 btc must sent to you on blockchain.

However, we may find a smarter way: the signers may give u a receipt of 21 btc, and they actually move btcs every week or month, account days, balance days. U know what I mean.

i belive we can work out an "open transaction" style.

B&C may become a bank which issues stable money(BKC), provide instant payment service(receipt style) , we are bitcoin +bitpay.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 14, 2015, 12:08:41 PM
For example, I've sent 10 Btc to B&C to place ltc buy order, those 10btc held by 16 signers before my transaction is completed, and you also have 20btc held by the same 16 signers.
All BTC are "stored" as UTXO in the Bitcoin blockchain.

Now I wanna send you 1btc. Can I inform 16 signers that just update our balance? i.e. , those 16 signers confirm I have 9 btc and you have 21 btc now?

Those 16 signers would probably say: no. My 1 btc must sent to you on blockchain.
That still requires a transaction (in the Bitcoin network) that transfers them from one address to the other.

However, we may find a smarter way: the signers may give u a receipt of 21 btc, and they actually move btcs every week or month, account days, balance days. U know what I mean.

i belive we can work out an "open transaction" style.

B&C may become a bank which issues stable money(BKC), provide instant payment service(receipt style) , we are bitcoin +bitpay.
That requires the different coins to "leave" the originating blockchain and to be traded on the B&C Exchange blockchain solely.
How will you "move" coins (the possibility to spend them) from and to a blockchain?

Using the multisignature transaction approach might help here - the transactions are unspendable on the foreign blockchain (unless the reputed signers agree do that) and can be traded "at the B&C Exchange blockchain".
It might be not trivial (but proveable) to keep the balance intact (the sum of unspendable outputs in a blockchain needs to be the same as the sum of UTXO at the B&C Exchange ledger...), but basically this could be a way into the direction you dream of ;)
...maybe this is complete nonsense due to my lack of understanding :D



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NewShareUser on July 14, 2015, 08:09:12 PM
I retried the import, directing to walletS.dat, and a box appeared asking for a password - I presume this is the NuShares client password. I typed it in, and it said that the import process had started, and that I should check the debug window. I did, but it said:

importnusharewallet <NuShares wallet file> [walletpassword] [rescan=true]
Import NuShares walletS.dat
Password is only required if wallet is encrypted
(code -1)

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain?

I think this is a bug.
...

Can B&CExchange confirm whether this is indeed a bug? If it is, I would rather wait for a solution, than keep on trying to import the NuShare file via the debug console - which has not worked, so far

Thanks.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 14, 2015, 10:40:55 PM
I do not recall if it has been already dealt with...In this case, excuse my lack of memory :)

Let us imagine a situation in which a malevolent hacker creates 100 clones of the user interface (the Web site that interfaces with the blockchain) and tries to access the B&C blockchain via those 100 Web interfaces at the same time.
One concrete example would be that the hacker tries to double spend 100 times say 50 BTC by creating 100 different orders involving those 50 BTC.
My understanding is that it would cost him only one tx fee, the successful tx (the remaining 99 txs will be unconfirmed).
So in that sense, there is no financial counter-incentive to prevent him from spamming the network with 99 txs.

This situation is probably not inherent to B&C but still I am curious about whether or not B&C would be able to cope easily with such a spamming attack.

What do you think?

EDIT: added info


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 14, 2015, 11:28:40 PM
Can B&CExchange confirm whether this is indeed a bug? If it is, I would rather wait for a solution, than keep on trying to import the NuShare file via the debug console - which has not worked, so far

Thanks.

We can confirm it is the same issue faced here: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/483. The client doesn't support spaces in the path or the password.

We will be issuing a quick fix release in the next day or two to ensure that you will be able to import your NuShares wallet without trouble.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on July 15, 2015, 02:33:43 PM
Is it still possible to purchase Blockshares? I sent you a pm but haven't got an answer yet.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on July 15, 2015, 03:25:58 PM
Is it still possible to purchase Blockshares? I sent you a pm but haven't got an answer yet.

only email and bitmessage


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 15, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Is it still possible to purchase Blockshares? I sent you a pm but haven't got an answer yet.

Please send an email to bkssale@vistomail.com or send a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. We will do our best to respond promptly when the message is received.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 15, 2015, 09:13:08 PM
Here are updated downloads of our client wallet:

Download (Windows) (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-win-gitian.zip)
Download (Linux) (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-linux-gitian.zip)
OS X download coming soon
Source Code (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/src)

If any NuShareholder is still having difficulty importing their BlockShares, please send us a PM.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: luffy on July 16, 2015, 10:43:15 AM
great! are you going to release an official site?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 16, 2015, 03:35:38 PM
great! are you going to release an official site?

Yes, a basic webpage is complete and we're just figuring out hosting details. It will serve as a basic portal for our wallet client and project development thread. We're hopeful it can be released very soon!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 16, 2015, 09:03:59 PM
I requested even more Blockshares but you didn't get back to me for over half a week now. The bitcoin price dropped by 35 dollars during that timeframe. Given that I purchased bitcoin for over 1000 dollar just to purchase Blockshares, I am quite disappointed right now.

Our apologies it has taken this long to respond. As you can imagine, during the summer months we occasionally have real-life commitments that take us away from the computer for brief periods of time. With several members on the team, the person handling financial requests may not be the same as the person(s) posting with this account.

As has been done in the past with NuShare purchases, the price per Bitcoin will be honored as of the day we received your request. Please be patient. We appreciate your support of B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BAYproviser on July 16, 2015, 10:18:54 PM
minting question

do you need share to mature for 7 days before they are ready available for minting what is minimum amount per wallet for minting


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on July 17, 2015, 12:22:29 AM
I requested even more Blockshares but you didn't get back to me for over half a week now. The bitcoin price dropped by 35 dollars during that timeframe. Given that I purchased bitcoin for over 1000 dollar just to purchase Blockshares, I am quite disappointed right now.

I'm just curious. Why didn't you convert your Bitcoin to NuBits? That would have prevented the devaluation you experienced. I personally collected money for over a month and converted it to NuBits while waiting until we had the go ahead to make payment. If I had not done so I probably would have taken a loss.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on July 17, 2015, 07:42:02 AM
I requested even more Blockshares but you didn't get back to me for over half a week now. The bitcoin price dropped by 35 dollars during that timeframe. Given that I purchased bitcoin for over 1000 dollar just to purchase Blockshares, I am quite disappointed right now.

I'm just curious. Why didn't you convert your Bitcoin to NuBits? That would have prevented the devaluation you experienced. I personally collected money for over a month and converted it to NuBits while waiting until we had the go ahead to make payment. If I had not done so I probably would have taken a loss.

Always hold your crypto wealth in nubits if you cannot tolerate a risk from volatility. ALWAYS! I've done this before and I will do it again.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: jubalix on July 17, 2015, 08:39:45 AM
so is this a n of m scheme?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 17, 2015, 09:55:27 AM
so is this a n of m scheme?
If you are talking about the type of the deposit addresses, then yes; according to the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf) (page 12):

Quote
Fund Transfers
Signed multisig messages that do not yet have enough signatures will be broadcast through the
network and placed on the blockchain with the appropriate fee. This message should include:
  • the signed raw transaction
  • the multisig deposit address
  • [...]


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 17, 2015, 09:08:05 PM
The new total for funds raised is $201,178. All correspondence sent to us that we have received has been responded to at this point. Our commitment to distribute BlockShares by July 19 will be kept.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 18, 2015, 02:26:46 AM
The new total for funds raised is $201,178. All correspondence sent to us that we have received has been responded to at this point. Our commitment to distribute BlockShares by July 19 will be kept.

Simply wrong. I requested 250 BKS and you didn't get back to me. This is getting absurd... The email has been sent 16:17:39 MESZ on July 13th.

I am sorry that you have to wait but please be patient and understand that the team is getting busier and busier as we get close to the release of the stable blokchain. (at least this is my understanding)
I made a purchase at the end of june and i waited 4 days, fyi.
So it is not surprising that you need to wait more as of today, I feel.

EDIT: corrected typo(s), added info.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 18, 2015, 05:30:45 PM
Everyone who has paid for BlockShares has been sent a message requesting BlockShare addresses to send their BKS to. So, if anyone has purchased BKS and has not received a message they should contact us and provide BKS addresses.

As long as you send BKS addresses by July 19, you will receive your BKS on July 19.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 18, 2015, 07:11:55 PM
I made a purchase at the end of june and i waited 4 days, fyi.

Our records show that your message was received on June 29, and then replied to on July 1. That is about 2 days. We do our best to respond promptly given the limitations on our time.

Simply wrong. I requested 250 BKS and you didn't get back to me. This is getting absurd... The email has been sent 16:17:39 MESZ on July 13th.

After checking with our team, it appears that all prior correspondence with you prior to July 16 was prompt. You seem to be angry that your BTC went down in value between the time you purchased them and the time you requested to purchase BKS, which is unfortunately outside of our control.

For all prospective BKS purchasers: there will be periods of time when we are unresponsive due to development commitments, family commitments, or life commitments. We make no promises about 24 hour availability, 365 days a year. We are proud of the work we have accomplished so far with Nu and Peershares and hope that our reputations will give reassurance to prospective purchasers that we are not purposely ignoring correspondence.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: johnny5 on July 18, 2015, 11:57:23 PM
Everyone who has paid for BlockShares has been sent a message requesting BlockShare addresses to send their BKS to. So, if anyone has purchased BKS and has not received a message they should contact us and provide BKS addresses.

As long as you send BKS addresses by July 19, you will receive your BKS on July 19.

Hi - i never received any message to ask where my paid for (and confirmed) BKS should be deposited to, i just replied to my confirmation email with the address, will that suffice?  I also PM'd you the details - thanks for your help & attention!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 19, 2015, 12:43:38 AM
Hi - i never received any message to ask where my paid for (and confirmed) BKS should be deposited to, i just replied to my confirmation email with the address, will that suffice?  I also PM'd you the details - thanks for your help & attention!

Hi Johny5. Yes, if you have replied to the confirmation email that will do perfectly. We only handle discussions about BKS through the email and BitMessage address provided.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 19, 2015, 03:44:17 AM
Unfortunately, there are widespread reports of shareholders not receiving the email from us requesting receiving BlockShare addresses to send BKS to. The Bitmessages appear to have been consistently received. We will follow up individually with shareholders who have used email to correspond with us and have not sent us their receiving BKS address(es) to ensure all shareholders receive their BlockShares. Everyone who has sent us their receiving BKS address(es) will receive their shares by the end of today (the 19th) UTC. If you requested and paid for BKS via email and did not receive our bulk email requesting BKS addresses, there is no need to wait for us to contact you individually. You can just take the initiative to send us your BKS address(es) by email at bkssale@vistomail.com, using the same email address you used to pay for your BKS. Here are the complete instructions for those that did not receive the email requesting receiving BKS address(es):

Quote
The B&C Exchange team has completed all the preparations necessary to distribute BlockShares to those who purchased them. To receive your BlockShares, please follow these simple steps:

1. Download and install the B&C Exchange client by pasting one of these addresses in your browser:

   Windows: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-win-gitian.zip

   Linux: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-linux-gitian.zip

   (OS X coming soon)

2. Backup your wallet (you may wish to add some additional BlockShare addresses to it and label them, but that isn't necessary).

3. Reply to this email and include one to three BlockShare addresses from your wallet.


Your BlockShares will be sent no later than 19 July, so long as you send us your BlockShare address(es) before then.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 19, 2015, 04:20:38 AM
If you requested and paid for BKS via email and did not receive our bulk email requesting BKS addresses, there is no need to wait for us to contact you individually. You can just take the initiative to send us your BKS address(es) by email at bkssale@vistomail.com, using the same email address you used to pay for your BKS.

I was expecting somewhat an email requesting the addresses exclusively just before the distribution day (one of the emails handling payment did mention that I would need to indicate a few addresses though once i would have downloaded the wallet) but this is now clarified.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 19, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
Everyone who has both paid for BlockShares and sent us one or more BKS receiving addresses via email or Bitmessage has received the BlockShares they were promised. We will reach out to those that have paid but have not sent us a BlockShare address to make sure they get the shares they deserve. If you are one of these people, there is no need to wait for us to contact you. Just go ahead and send us a BKS address using the same email or Bitmessage address you used to arrange payment and we will send your BlockShares promptly.

Please remember that the B&C Exchange blockchain is currently a release candidate. This means there is still a chance the blockchain will be discarded if a problem with the distribution emerges. It is our hope we can promote it to the status of final production blockchain in a week or two. Until then, no one should purchase BlockShares from individual shareholders because you will lose your investment if it becomes necessary to start a new blockchain. BlockShares should be purchased from B&C Exchange by email at bkssale@vistomail.com or by Bitmessage at BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: boomboom on July 20, 2015, 12:22:54 AM
how can I buy some BKC?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: rambobt on July 20, 2015, 05:21:08 AM
Everyone who has both paid for BlockShares and sent us one or more BKS receiving addresses via email or Bitmessage has received the BlockShares they were promised. We will reach out to those that have paid but have not sent us a BlockShare address to make sure they get the shares they deserve. If you are one of these people, there is no need to wait for us to contact you. Just go ahead and send us a BKS address using the same email or Bitmessage address you used to arrange payment and we will send your BlockShares promptly.

Please remember that the B&C Exchange blockchain is currently a release candidate. This means there is still a chance the blockchain will be discarded if a problem with the distribution emerges. It is our hope we can promote it to the status of final production blockchain in a week or two. Until then, no one should purchase BlockShares from individual shareholders because you will lose your investment if it becomes necessary to start a new blockchain. BlockShares should be purchased from B&C Exchange by email at bkssale@vistomail.com or by Bitmessage at BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ

I  purchased from B&C Exchange by email at nsrauction@vistomail.com,and I  send 1587 NBT to this addr BB94nQZcLxmxd642pV8vXADNBmGnfS27Cd
I just send my BKS addresses to  nsrauction@vistomail.com.pls reply me.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: skeroth on July 20, 2015, 08:33:33 AM
I have some errors on W8.
Same as here: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/496


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 20, 2015, 06:27:59 PM
how can I buy some BKC?

BKC (BlockCredits) are not yet available, because the trading functionality of B&C Exchange has not yet been developed.

BKS (BlockShares) are available at the current price of $4.08 per BKS. You can make a purchase by emailing bkssale@vistomail.com or sending a BitMessage to BM-2cTihATJ5FwJ7vWBwZmJjr55eFPFWBCmCQ. Please ensure you provide us with the information requested in the original announcement, including your requested quantity of BlockShares, the asset type you will pay with (BTC, LTC, PPC or NBT), and finally a cryptocurrency forum username (bitcointalk, discuss.nubits.com, or others) that is a minimum of one week old as of the date of the main announcement.  These are the only two channels we will sell BlockShares through.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on July 20, 2015, 07:08:14 PM
Would you please send me BKS today? I've sent the BKS address by email and BM since yesterday.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: luffy on July 22, 2015, 12:07:34 PM
you got them? i 've already got mine  :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on July 22, 2015, 05:07:33 PM
I guess I was one of the ones that didn't get a Bitmessage. I just wanted to let BCexchange know that I probably won't be able to get to creating addresses until the weekend, but I will get to it. Sorry for the delay.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on July 22, 2015, 08:30:40 PM
I guess I was one of the ones that didn't get a Bitmessage. I just wanted to let BCexchange know that I probably won't be able to get to creating addresses until the weekend, but I will get to it. Sorry for the delay.

Even though bitmessage initially seemed like a really nice technology and suitable for such use cases, for some reason it just fails to provide reliable service at critical times. I wonder if the Tor or I2P network could be used for communication instead?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on July 23, 2015, 12:36:07 AM
I guess I was one of the ones that didn't get a Bitmessage. I just wanted to let BCexchange know that I probably won't be able to get to creating addresses until the weekend, but I will get to it. Sorry for the delay.

Even though bitmessage initially seemed like a really nice technology and suitable for such use cases, for some reason it just fails to provide reliable service at critical times. I wonder if the Tor or I2P network could be used for communication instead?

We need Peermessage to be finished. You can help Emeth by posting a message for him on Github. Check here...

https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4203.0


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BTCBinary on July 23, 2015, 02:11:45 AM
Decentralization is the way!
Interesting Business model and great news for people wanting to leverage their Bitcoins!
However, I'd rather see it working 100% before going in with it!




Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 23, 2015, 08:08:35 AM
Decentralization is the way!
[...]
Oh yes, it is :)

[...]
However, I'd rather see it working 100% before going in with it!
Sure.
The classic question: more risk for more gain or less risk for less gain?
Buying BKS at the moment is for sure investing money in a startup.
It might fail (and there are many ways in which it could fail...) and a total loss would be a likely consequence.
But if it succeeds, the results could be overwhelming.

What should always be regarded when investing money (in whatever): don't invest more than you can afford to lose!

I've learned some lessons and regard the statement above as well as this one: don't invest less than you can afford not to gain ;)

Finding the balance between two extremes (invest all / invest nothing) could be a viable way.

I'm not aware of the development roadmap, but I can imagine that "motion votes" will be introduced quite early. This is a field-tested1 way to form consensus on decisions that need to be made.
Motion votes are a continuous process. Whenever a block gets minted, a vote is cast2.
Once a majority of shareholders (=minted blocks in a rolling window of blocks) is in favour of the motion, it is considered passed and the decision or action that was content of the motion is made or started, respectively.
It might remind you of stockholders' meetings in the real world. But while they normally elect delegates and can only do that once in a while, the "stockholders' meeting" at B&C Exchange will be ongoing and without the need for delegates.

Now comes the thing: obviously you need BKS to be able to mint blocks and to be able to vote; you need a financial stake in the system to be allowed for determining its way.

Why am I writing all this?
I want to help you finding milestones after which investing money (only as much as you can afford to lose!) in B&C Exchange might be far more convenient than it is now.
Once the blockchain is promoted from release candidate to production and is able to handle motion votes, it already will be in a good shape. Tiny little add-ons like all that exchange related stuff will follow ;)
...but most importantly: once its in production state and handles motions, you are in full financial control: you can sell the BKS or you can take a part in shaping the business3.

If you doubt the power of motions, visit https://docs.nubits.com/history/ and have a look at how drastically Nu was (re)formed by the will of the shareholders!
The shareholders are in full control to the extend that they can vote on stopping the distribution of BKS at a certain point or adjust the price or whatever seems appropriate.

__________________
1 Nu uses that since its start very successfully and as you should be aware, B&C Exchange is a fork of Nu, being thought of by the same lead developer and being created by the same team that created Nu - which is still (after close to one year on the market) offering a stable pegged crypto currency.

2 Votes are only cast if configured; there are times without motions, so there's not always need to have a vote configured. If you don't want to follow the development closely at some point of time, you can register a feed of somebody who - by the track record - tends to vote in your favour. Registering a feed makes the minting client inherit the settings from the feed provider. De-registering the feed gives instantly the control back to you. This is close to electing delegates in a "traditional" stockholders' meeting. The difference is: there's no election period by registering a feed. It is effective only as long as it's registered.

3 I was wondering whether that Nu thing with the peg could work. It did so far. It did so very successfully. Do I know whether B&C Exchange will work? Hell, no! But it's not like this team has not made impressive stuff!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sportscliche on July 23, 2015, 05:46:12 PM
Today when I opened the Bitmessage client, I received two new messages.  One had been sent about a month ago and the second was almost 6 months old!  This clearly demonstrates that this method of communication is still not reliable.  The B&C development team can't be faulted if share distribution did not go smoothly when Bitmessage is involved.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 27, 2015, 12:55:00 AM
Total B&C funds raised are now $201,688.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on July 27, 2015, 01:52:25 AM
Total B&C funds raised are now $201,688.
after recieving BKS for one week, we can mint, is it right?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BAYproviser on July 27, 2015, 03:11:00 AM
if the coin were transferred from converted nushares they mint already well mine did base on nubits nsr client not to sure if its same 7 days for deposit to your wallet in coins days if so its about 11176 conformation at the current network difficulty

{
"proof-of-work" : 0.00406724,
"proof-of-stake" : 0.00026545,
"search-interval" : 0
}


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on July 28, 2015, 06:06:54 PM
How is the website coming along?

Would it be possible to get say monthly updates on development of B&C?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 28, 2015, 07:38:50 PM
[...]
Would it be possible to get say monthly updates on development of B&C?

And I bet a kind of development roadmap would be welcome by the funders who became shareholders of the corporation.
I'm almost sure there is a kind of internal roadmap already which might be quite detailed in terms of tasks, dependencies, time frame, etc. (for basic project management things or whatever).
Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible to calculate the amount of money required (at least $200,000 for the basic version of the exchange) for this endeavour.
A roadmap with some milestones could be part of the website - that would be attractive for both current and (possible) future shareholders.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on July 30, 2015, 12:01:43 AM
Do you have twitter or website ready?



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on July 30, 2015, 02:07:26 AM
Do you have twitter or website ready?


Yes, we have a twitter account (https://twitter.com/bc_exchange).

Our initial website content is complete. We will be placing it at bcexchange.org (http://bcexchange.org/). We have the domain and hosting resources, but there are a few issues to work through in regard to configuring hosting. We expect to have it up very soon.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on July 30, 2015, 02:53:09 AM
Would it be possible to get say monthly updates on development of B&C?

I certainly expect you will see visible progress and updates at much shorter intervals.

There has been a concentration of holidays taken by team members the last couple weeks, so progress has been slow within that time interval. I expect we will see quite a bit of progress over the next month, although I know most team members have additional holidays scheduled.

We have two independent iterations moving forward right now. Sigmike is working on the reputation voting system along with its associated block reward as detailed on pages 14 and 15 of the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf). John (aka erasmospunk) will be working on the other voting features unique to B&C Exchange as detailed on page 3 and 4 of the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf). When complete, these changes will be deployed to our publicly available test network, but will not be added to the production network until enough development has been completed to make the exchange fully functional.

When those iterations are complete, we will begin implementing the individual message types unique to B&C Exchange which are described in detail in the design document. Each will be implemented in our public test network when complete. Here is a summary of those message types:

1. Reputed signer deposit public key list
2. Non-reputed signer deposit address request
3. Non-reputed signer withdrawal address request
4. Order
5. Order validation
6. Fill (not signed and no transaction fee)
7. Fill validation
8. Fund transfer
9. Cancel order
10. Withdraw from deposit address
11. Pairing of BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses

We will start with forming the message pairing BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses and client processing of that message. Next will be the reputed signer deposit public key list. Then we will add the non-reputed signer deposit address request message. We will continue to add the rest of the messages to testnet one at a time in the approximate order they would be used in typically.

When the bulk of the messages have been implemented we will begin developing the web interface.

If additional funding is received, we could see additional goodies such as an Android interface that simultaneously functions as a wallet for assets being traded.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 30, 2015, 06:54:57 AM
If additional funding is received, we could see additional goodies such as an Android interface that simultaneously functions as a wallet for assets being traded.

That would be nice to have!

By the way, I easily envision B&C Exchange be used as the first decentralized cloud wallet for any crypto assets and currencies.
Thus, people that have no interest in trading would have a reason to use B&C Exchange.
In other words, we could see 2 services:
1) Exchange
2) Wallet

Perhaps we could even think about charging for 2) as well.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 30, 2015, 08:44:10 AM
[...]
By the way, I easily envision B&C Exchange be used as the first decentralized cloud wallet for any crypto assets and currencies.
Thus, people that have no interest in trading would have a reason to use B&C Exchange.
In other words, we could see 2 services:
1) Exchange
2) Wallet

Perhaps we could even think about charging for 2) as well.

I fully second your assessment about BCE offering a wallet service. I've written my take on this at another place (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/539):
Quote
Via BCE exchange web sites you effectively can create something similar to e.g. blockchain.info, but in an improved version:
Web access to BCE provides BCE with a kind of online wallet capabilities - similar to blockchain.info (https://blockchain.info/en/wallet).
Transactions (e.g. withdraw) can be executed using a web site - similar to blockchain.info.
This requires coins to be available in a multi signature deposit address - assumably better security than at blockchain.info (does blockchain.info support multi signature addresses and if what level?).

You can execute payments with all coins supported by BCE by creating a withdraw (to the payment deposit address) on any BCE exchange web site - that's way more flexible than at blockchain.info which only supports BTC.
And if you don't have enough BTC, trade some of your deposited LTC or whatever first - that's way more flexible than at blockchain.info.

But the major benefit over central wallets is this:
there's no risk to get your funds seized by taking down a central service or stolen by that central service.
The central server as single point of failure is gone.
All relies on the (distributed) reputed signers which can't be tracked easily if ever.

For the wallet service there's a charge: all transactions that utilize the BCE network as a wallet service require transactions; they have a size and cost BKC ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mv1986 on July 30, 2015, 08:58:19 AM

There has been a concentration of holidays taken by team members the last couple weeks, so progress has been slow within that time interval. I expect we will see quite a bit of progress over the next month, although I know most team members have additional holidays scheduled.

If additional funding is received, we could see additional goodies such as an Android interface that simultaneously functions as a wallet for assets being traded.

Great! Are we also going to see additional holidays scheduled when you collect even more money?



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on July 30, 2015, 09:56:56 AM
[...]
By the way, I easily envision B&C Exchange be used as the first decentralized cloud wallet for any crypto assets and currencies.
Thus, people that have no interest in trading would have a reason to use B&C Exchange.
In other words, we could see 2 services:
1) Exchange
2) Wallet

Perhaps we could even think about charging for 2) as well.

I fully second your assessment about BCE offering a wallet service. I've written my take on this at another place (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/539):
Quote
Via BCE exchange web sites you effectively can create something similar to e.g. blockchain.info, but in an improved version:
Web access to BCE provides BCE with a kind of online wallet capabilities - similar to blockchain.info (https://blockchain.info/en/wallet).
Transactions (e.g. withdraw) can be executed using a web site - similar to blockchain.info.
This requires coins to be available in a multi signature deposit address - assumably better security than at blockchain.info (does blockchain.info support multi signature addresses and if what level?).

You can execute payments with all coins supported by BCE by creating a withdraw (to the payment deposit address) on any BCE exchange web site - that's way more flexible than at blockchain.info which only supports BTC.
And if you don't have enough BTC, trade some of your deposited LTC or whatever first - that's way more flexible than at blockchain.info.

But the major benefit over central wallets is this:
there's no risk to get your funds seized by taking down a central service or stolen by that central service.
The central server as single point of failure is gone.
All relies on the (distributed) reputed signers which can't be tracked easily if ever.

For the wallet service there's a charge: all transactions that utilize the BCE network as a wallet service require transactions; they have a size and cost BKC ;)

You said it all.
About the wallet charges, tks for reminding me. The business model is natural.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 30, 2015, 07:51:17 PM
Would it be possible to get say monthly updates on development of B&C?

I certainly expect you will see visible progress and updates at much shorter intervals.

There has been a concentration of holidays taken by team members the last couple weeks, so progress has been slow within that time interval. I expect we will see quite a bit of progress over the next month, although I know most team members have additional holidays scheduled.

We have two independent iterations moving forward right now. Sigmike is working on the reputation voting system along with its associated block reward as detailed on pages 14 and 15 of the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf). John (aka erasmospunk) will be working on the other voting features unique to B&C Exchange as detailed on page 3 and 4 of the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf). When complete, these changes will be deployed to our publicly available test network, but will not be added to the production network until enough development has been completed to make the exchange fully functional.

When those iterations are complete, we will begin implementing the individual message types unique to B&C Exchange which are described in detail in the design document. Each will be implemented in our public test network when complete. Here is a summary of those message types:

1. Reputed signer deposit public key list
2. Non-reputed signer deposit address request
3. Non-reputed signer withdrawal address request
4. Order
5. Order validation
6. Fill (not signed and no transaction fee)
7. Fill validation
8. Fund transfer
9. Cancel order
10. Withdraw from deposit address
11. Pairing of BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses

We will start with forming the message pairing BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses and client processing of that message. Next will be the reputed signer deposit public key list. Then we will add the non-reputed signer deposit address request message. We will continue to add the rest of the messages to testnet one at a time in the approximate order they would be used in typically.

When the bulk of the messages have been implemented we will begin developing the web interface.

If additional funding is received, we could see additional goodies such as an Android interface that simultaneously functions as a wallet for assets being traded.

Thank you very much for that overview! Can't wait to see it evolve!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on July 31, 2015, 01:00:45 AM
b&C exchange, a wallet?
I am very interested in the off chain trade among B&C exchange users. Build our own paypal business???


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on July 31, 2015, 03:49:41 AM
We now have an OS X build available for the B&C Exchange client (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-rc2.dmg). Sorry for the delay on that.


Title: Compile bcexchanged on RaspberryPi
Post by: masterOfDisaster on July 31, 2015, 09:26:50 AM
For those who might be interested to build bcexchanged on a RaspberryPi (running Raspbian).
After initial problems to build a bcexchanged on my RaPi2 I tried again.
Here's a dcoumentation of my steps:

Code:
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install libcurl4-openssl-dev #libcurl is required to build from the source, although not stated in doc/build.txt; make sure to have all other dependencies installed
mkdir ~/bce
cd ~/bce
wget https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/get/e472f471107c.zip
unzip e472f471107c.zip
cd ~/bce/JordanLeePeershares-bcexchange-e472f471107c/src
sed -i 's/USE_UPNP:=0/USE_UPNP:=-/' makefile.unix #disables UPNP; I don't have the dependencies installed and don't need UPNP
make -f makefile.unix

Et voila, bcexchanged ready after some time (thanks to the RaPi2 being fast as hell compared to the RaPi1 ;) )

Tried starting it and it worked :)

Code:
bcexchanged --daemon
B&C Exchange server starting
Error: To use the "-daemon" option, you must set a rpcpassword in the configuration file:
 /home/pi/.bcexchange/bcexchange.conf
It is recommended you use the following random password:
rpcuser=nurpc
rpcpassword=bVCSDYtSZyo9SNIw31O10bRa47Y9c8qO8mJT4N0cJSQf


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 02, 2015, 12:38:58 PM
Update: bcexchanged running stable on my RaPi2 for over two days.
Code:
bcexchanged getinfo
{
    "version" : "v3.0.0-unk-beta",
    "protocolversion" : 2000000,
    "walletversion" : 1,
    "walletunit" : "8",
    "balance" : 0.0,
    "newmint" : 0.0,
    "stake" : 0.0,
    "parked" : 0.0,
    "blocks" : 37639,
    "moneysupply" : 208540.1054,
    "connections" : 8,
    "proxy" : "",
    "ip" : "obfuscated",
    "difficulty" : 0.00038899,
    "testnet" : false,
    "keypoololdest" : 1438334508,
    "keypoolsize" : 101,
    "paytxfee" : 0.01,
    "errors" : ""
}

And it's very friendly to the RaPi2 doing that (in terms of resources):
Code:
 PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S  %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
18433 user      20   0  214m 110m  42m S   5,6 11,3 256:00.22 bcexchanged


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Nowi on August 02, 2015, 06:16:17 PM
Wow, I suppose there is no purpose in beating a dead horse, but I'm really surprised that people were turned off by having to hold NuShares.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: statdude on August 02, 2015, 08:17:18 PM
What is the relationship of this and Nushares?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 02, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
Wow, I suppose there is no purpose in beating a dead horse, but I'm really surprised that people were turned off by having to hold NuShares.
Not sure what you mean. Who had to hold NuShares? Maybe you misunderstood something?
And where's the dead horse?


What is the relationship of this and Nushares?
Have you read the initial post in this thread?

[...]
B&C Exchange, short for ​Blocks & Chains Decentralized Exchange[...]

will be developed by the same established team that has directed Peercoin and NuBits development, a group that includes well-known cryptocurrency experts such as Jordan Lee and sigmike. The experienced team of over ten contributors has successfully led three prior projects (Peercoin, NuBits, NuShares) into the top twenty-five assets by market cap on coinmarketcap.com (http://coinmarketcap.com).
[...]


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on August 02, 2015, 09:36:13 PM
"Not sure what you mean. Who had to hold NuShares? Maybe you misunderstood something?
And where's the dead horse?"

He probably meant the original offer when this thread launched, where BKS was going to be directly mirrored to NSR.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 03, 2015, 05:24:50 AM
What is the relationship of this and Nushares?

B&C Exchange will be a fork of Nu (NuShares and NuBits) with new trading functionality added. As the distribution table in the original announcement shows, NuShareholders were entitled to 40% of initial BlockShares.

The Nu network will likely be providing liquidity to B&C Exchange, ensuring that B&C Exchange has a healthy amount of liquidity for traders. This is an advantage that no other decentralized exchange can currently match.

For speculators looking for long-term potential and active development, NuShares and BlockShares represent two of the most promising options available among Bitcoin 2.0 projects.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 03, 2015, 05:47:06 AM
Inspired by a post @MasterofDisaster made on the Nu forum, we’d like to highlight B&C Exchange’s continuing success in generating interest on this Project Development board:

Views: 52,478 (21st all time)
Replies: 504 (18th all time)

These metrics place us just below successful projects like BitMessage, Trezor, CoinMap, Namecoin, and Bitfinex. We appreciate that so many BlockShareholders (and non-BlockShareholders) are contributing to discussions in this thread.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Nowi on August 03, 2015, 02:42:33 PM
Since downloading the bitcoin client could be a problematic with the increase in block size (even now it is troublesome), would there be an easy way to enable users to specify any bitcoin addresses, including within B&C?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 03, 2015, 03:01:43 PM
Since downloading the bitcoin client could be a problematic with the increase in block size (even now it is troublesome), would there be an easy way to enable users to specify any bitcoin addresses, including within B&C?

This question might be answered by BCExchange in more detail, but according to the BCE design (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf) (page 3) users should be able to deposit funds at multi signature deposit addresses without having to have an up-to-date Bitcoin blockchain.
The foreign blockchains (BTC, LTC, whatever) are handled by the reputed signers and they create individually per user account multi signature addresses if users want to deposit funds.

That's why using BCE will be as comfortable as using a central exchange but the funds are even safer at BCE, because they are protected by the reputed signers of BCE :)
That's why it can truly be called decentralized exchange!

Remember, there is no single point of failure; there's no website that can be DDOS'ed, no Mark Karpeles that can mess with your funds, no single point that can be attacked, no way to get your funds seized by a government going nuts about crypto.
It's only the users, multiple reputed signers and the blockchain :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mhps on August 05, 2015, 01:43:39 PM
Since downloading the bitcoin client could be a problematic with the increase in block size (even now it is troublesome), would there be an easy way to enable users to specify any bitcoin addresses, including within B&C?

I asked a similar question and got answered here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg11249649#msg11249649


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on August 09, 2015, 10:53:13 PM
I am pleased to be able to announce that I am confident in the integrity and stability of the B&C Exchange release candidate blockchain, and that I see no reason why it shouldn't be regarded as the final production blockchain immediately. No one on the team has raised any concerns or reservations about promoting the release candidate to final production status. It is an easy decision to make.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 10, 2015, 12:32:53 AM
IMPORTANT

Another thief is attempting to conduct fraudulent fundraising using the B&C Exchange name: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/3ge98h/bitcointalk_decentralized_exchange_ipo/

They have also listed the fake announcement in these other subreddits:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/3geahj/bitcointalk_decentralized_exchange_ipo/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/3gebt9/bitcointalk_decentralized_exchange_ipo/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3gemzr/bitcointalk_decentralized_exchange_ipo_offering/

Please downvote and report these threads. They've renamed it the "Bitcointalk Decentralized Exchange" at the top but neglected to delete "B&C Exchange" from the body of the message.

We will stress again and again: we will only sell BlockShares through the BitMessage and email address listed in our original announcement.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 10, 2015, 04:59:47 PM
A motion to stop the sale of undistributed BlockShares has been raised on the Nu forums.

Link: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/bks-voting-motion-to-stop-sale-of-bks/2485

Motion RIPEMD160 hash: f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352

=##=##=##=##=##=## Motion hash starts with this line ##=##=##=##=##=##=

This motion confirms BlockShareholders' desire to cease the sale of undistributed BKS.At 23:59 UTC on the 5th day after this motion passes no new buy offers will be accepted by B&C Exchange.For purposes of accounting, this time will be defined as the time a message is received by B&C Exchange, not when the message was sent.At 23:59 UTC on the 7th day after this motion passes all undistributed BKS that have not been requested for purchase will be burned.At 23:59 UTC on the 14th day after this motion passes all undistributed BKS will be burned, including those that had been reserved for purchase, but no payment was sent.

=##=##=##=##=##=## Motion hash ends with this line ##=##=##=##=##=##=

If any current BlockShareholders are unfamiliar with how to vote for a motion (if they agree with it), please let us know here so we can help you.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CCEDKaps on August 11, 2015, 12:53:44 PM
Welcome to make this know to everyone :)

#important #BlockShares #BKS has been listed on #CCEDK with NBT/BKS and BTC/BKS https://www.ccedk.com/btc-bks @OfficialNuBits @BC_Exchange #NuBits

Yours sincerely

CCEDK ApS

https://www.ccedk.com/btc-bks

https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-bks


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Bisha on August 11, 2015, 08:06:28 PM
At 100bks/btc isn't that way low than the IPO price? that would give ~$2,65/BKS when initially it was ~$4?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 11, 2015, 09:26:12 PM
At 100bks/btc isn't that way low than the IPO price? that would give ~$2,65/BKS when initially it was ~$4?
This is a buy offer and no sell offer, right?
Trying to buy at $2.6 would make a lot of sense. I don't wonder of that order doesn't get filled ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 13, 2015, 04:22:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/AA6hVoh.png

We would like to announce that a B&C Exchange block explorer (https://bcblockexplorer.com) is now available at https://bcblockexplorer.com.

It is a very basic tool that will see several updates in the next few weeks. Eventually it will have the same functionality as the Nu block explorer. (http://blockexplorer.nu) For example, our hope is to have an "All Blocks" page available in a few days that will be very similar to this one in the Nu block explorer. (http://blockexplorer.nu/allBlocks/1)

The first update will include voting and motions pages and should be completed within a couple weeks or sooner.

The second update will include charts and the top richest BlockShareholder addresses and will be completed a few weeks after the first update.




Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: hankrules on August 13, 2015, 04:31:02 PM
Consummate professionals


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on August 13, 2015, 05:26:47 PM

We would like to announce that a B&C Exchange block explorer (https://bcblockexplorer.com) is now available at https://bcblockexplorer.com.


How to convert a nushare address to blockshare address? I haven't imported my nushares private keys nor I have installed the b&c client but I'd like to have a look at the address that should hold the blockshares. Perhaps the block explorer should allow searching addresses by their hex format?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 14, 2015, 06:08:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/yVWUlg2.png (https://bcexchange.org)

We are happy to announce the launch of BCExchange.org (https://bcexchange.org)!

It will serve as a portal for the B&C Exchange project. On the website you can find our latest client downloads, our source code, the latest tweets, and a list of cryptocurrencies and cryptoequities we hope to support.

Please considering sharing this website as often as possible in the other online communities you frequent. B&C Exchange will be a decentralized exchange for anyone in the world to trade their cryptoequities and cryptocurrencies.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 14, 2015, 10:29:52 PM
Fundraising has now reached $202,365.

We have also updated our original announcement post with some more attractive formatting which we hope to continue improving on.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: bruter on August 14, 2015, 11:31:44 PM

We are happy to announce the launch of BCExchange.org!


Link to BCExchange.org is not correct.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 15, 2015, 12:10:07 AM
Link to BCExchange.org is not correct.

Looks like we forgot the "C" there, thank you for pointing it out.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BAYproviser on August 15, 2015, 05:55:48 AM
i notice you have the RC1 link under windows on bcexchange.org but the RC2 is available https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-win-gitian.zip


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 15, 2015, 06:28:23 AM
i notice you have the RC1 link under windows on bcexchange.org but the RC2 is available https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.0-RC2-win-gitian.zip

RC2 is now available on bcexchange.org!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 15, 2015, 11:59:27 AM
will Ethereum also be tradable on BCExchange?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on August 15, 2015, 04:28:54 PM
will Ethereum also be tradable on BCExchange?

That is up to shareholders. If shareholders pass a motion or grant indicating Ether should be traded on B&C Exchange, then it will be. While I expect B&C Exchange will support a wide variety of blockchains quickly, the initial functional release will support the Nu, B&C and Bitcoin blockchains. Then we will iteratively add more according to the priorities set by shareholders. Based on the current interest in trading Ether, I would expect Ether trading to be one of the first few assets/blockchains to be added iteratively.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 16, 2015, 04:25:32 PM
Motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/bks-passed-motion-to-stop-sale-of-bks/2485) has passed at block 58377, which occurred on August 16, 2015 UTC.

The motion text states:

Quote
This motion confirms BlockShareholders' desire to cease the sale of undistributed BKS. At 23:59 UTC on the 5th day after this motion passes no new buy offers will be accepted by B&C Exchange. For purposes of accounting, this time will be defined as the time a message is received by B&C Exchange, not when the message was sent. At 23:59 UTC on the 7th day after this motion passes all undistributed BKS that have not been requested for purchase will be burned. At 23:59 UTC on the 14th day after this motion passes all undistributed BKS will be burned, including those that had been reserved for purchase, but no payment was sent.

Accordingly, the sale of undistributed BlockShares held in our possession will stop soon. There are three important dates specified by the motion.

August 21, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - We will stop accepting offers to purchase BlockShares. For purposes of accounting, this time will be defined as the time a message is received by B&C Exchange, not when the message was sent. If you are planning on making a final purchase, please don't leave it until the last minute, as we will not extend this deadline for any reason. This date is five days after the motion passed.

August 23, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares that have not been requested for purchase by August 21, 2015 will be burned. We will post details of the burn transaction publicly so that all shareholders can verify it was completed. This date is seven days after the motion passed.

August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares remaining that have not been paid for - including those that were requested for purchase but not paid for - will be burned. At this point, all undistributed BlockShares will have been destroyed as per the motion. This date is fourteen days after the motion passed.

We will provide regular updates on total fundraising as we approach these milestone dates.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 17, 2015, 09:05:58 PM
We've added an All Blocks page to our block explorer at https://bcblockexplorer.com/allBlocks/1. This page allows users to easily scroll back through the history of our blockchain.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 17, 2015, 11:32:00 PM
It's a little bit annoying that you can't scroll down faster. Would take a day to scroll down to the first blocks. Or am I wrong?

Edit: I know you can check the first block by typing it into the search bar, but you can't really scroll through the first blocks of the chain (if I didn't miss something)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 18, 2015, 12:09:46 AM
It's a little bit annoying that you can't scroll down faster. Would take a day to scroll down to the first blocks. Or am I wrong?

Edit: I know you can check the first block by typing it into the search bar, but you can't really scroll through the first blocks of the chain (if I didn't miss something)

Our current block explorer efforts are focused on adding core functionality as quickly as possible, including motions, voting, and charts. While it would certainly be nice to have an option to start the scrolling from block 1, it is a low priority feature for us at the moment. We are more concerned with making sure BlockShareholders quickly gain access to features that will help them with their decision making.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 18, 2015, 12:13:28 AM
Fundraising has now reached $255,283 US. As a result, all shares at $4.08 have now been sold. The current price of a BlockShare is $4.16. We have now sold 43,553.3325 BKS to second-round purchasers and the total distributed BKS across all groups is 168,483.8849 BKS. The main announcement has been updated with this new information.

As a reminder, these are the three important dates coming up that we will adhere to, as specified by motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/bks-passed-motion-to-stop-sale-of-bks/2485).

August 21, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - We will stop accepting offers to purchase BlockShares. For purposes of accounting, this time will be defined as the time a message is received by B&C Exchange, not when the message was sent. If you are planning on making a final purchase, please don't leave it until the last minute, as we will not extend this deadline for any reason. This date is five days after the motion passed.

August 23, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares that have not been requested for purchase by August 21, 2015 will be burned. We will post details of the burn transaction publicly so that all shareholders can verify it was completed. This date is seven days after the motion passed.

August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares remaining that have not been paid for - including those that were requested for purchase but not paid for - will be burned. At this point, all undistributed BlockShares will have been destroyed as per the motion. This date is fourteen days after the motion passed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 18, 2015, 02:21:59 PM
Is it correct to assume that with this level of funding the development of CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and and Android app has at least been secured? Also, JordanLee mentioned that (estimation) with another 10-20k dollars a specific type of escrow service could be developed by making certain changes to the protocol. That should also more or less be covered, shouldn't it?
I really hope that the recent boost in funding pays off for us instead of diluting all our shares without really getting something extra to the version that we were supposed to see with 200k funding.
For the future, I would really like to see an outline of a certain feature and the required funding for the development. Otherwise it might be tempting for those in charge of the funds to talk down the raised amount of money and overemphasize the required development efforts.
Looking forward to see as many additional features as possible for the extra 50k raised.

Cheers,
BTP


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on August 18, 2015, 08:47:34 PM
Is it correct to assume that with this level of funding the development of CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and and Android app has at least been secured? Also, JordanLee mentioned that (estimation) with another 10-20k dollars a specific type of escrow service could be developed by making certain changes to the protocol. That should also more or less be covered, shouldn't it?
I really hope that the recent boost in funding pays off for us instead of diluting all our shares without really getting something extra to the version that we were supposed to see with 200k funding.
For the future, I would really like to see an outline of a certain feature and the required funding for the development. Otherwise it might be tempting for those in charge of the funds to talk down the raised amount of money and overemphasize the required development efforts.
Looking forward to see as many additional features as possible for the extra 50k raised.

Cheers,
BTP

It will be months before those projects can be started. That means the situation might shift some between now and then. For instance, a better and more urgent use of the funds may emerge. For these reasons I'm not sure it is optimal to commit funds to it now. I do think they ought to be the top priorities (CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and the Android app, with the escrow framework as a third priority).

When it does become time to decide whether to commit to an Android app, it makes the most sense to pass a motion to transfer a specific quantity of NuBits raised to the developer that commits to developing it, such as Giannis or Cybnate. There isn't much reason for me to be directly involved in that because it doesn't pertain to the core client software.

So, shareholders can decide whatever they want to about how funds raised are allocated and spent. As always, I will be very responsive to motions. But it is probably premature to commit to specific features many months before development begins.

Reputation voting has been implemented. You can see screenshots of the user interface for it here (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/pull-requests/14/reputation-vote). Once the reputation reward is done (currently in progress), the other new voting types are complete (also in progress) and Bitcoin dividends are supported we will push a release to test net. It probably makes sense to push this release to production so that reputed signers can get established before the exchange is operational.





Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 20, 2015, 05:09:22 AM
Fundraising has now reached $297,433 US.

The current price of a BlockShare is $4.16.

As a reminder, these are the three important dates coming up that we will adhere to, as specified by motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/bks-passed-motion-to-stop-sale-of-bks/2485).

August 21, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - We will stop accepting offers to purchase BlockShares. For purposes of accounting, this time will be defined as the time a message is received by B&C Exchange, not when the message was sent. If you are planning on making a final purchase, please don't leave it until the last minute, as we will not extend this deadline for any reason. This date is five days after the motion passed.

August 23, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares that have not been requested for purchase by August 21, 2015 will be burned. We will post details of the burn transaction publicly so that all shareholders can verify it was completed. This date is seven days after the motion passed.

August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares remaining that have not been paid for - including those that were requested for purchase but not paid for - will be burned. At this point, all undistributed BlockShares will have been destroyed as per the motion. This date is fourteen days after the motion passed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 21, 2015, 10:25:43 AM
Wouldn't it be nice to find the design paper on https://bcexchange.org/?
Currently there's only a link to it in the announcement here on bitcointalk to https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 21, 2015, 04:30:28 PM
Wouldn't it be nice to find the design paper on https://bcexchange.org/?
Currently there's only a link to it in the announcement here on bitcointalk to https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf

We'll look at incorporating it onto the site. Note that there is a link to the design document in the Source Code link on https://bcexchange.org too.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 21, 2015, 04:31:32 PM
Fundraising has now reached $303,050 US.

The current price of a BlockShare is $4.16.

The sale of undistributed BlockShares will stop at 23:59 UTC today as specified by motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352. There are currently a little over seven hours remaining.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 21, 2015, 04:45:21 PM
[...]Note that there is a link to the design document in the Source Code link on https://bcexchange.org too.

People might expect to find the design document (linked) on the official website. I was looking there for it as well and wondered where to find it.
A button with the link next to "source code" to it would be better than not knowing where to find it on the website.
Would someone expect to find the link to the design document in the source code?
I don't know...



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 21, 2015, 06:57:43 PM
Our B&C Block Explorer (https://bcblockexplorer.com) now has two new features: Motions and Voting!

Motions (https://bcblockexplorer.com/motions) shows the status of any shareholder motion on the network, along with the current support. A motion requires a vote in 5001 of the previous 10000 blocks to pass. By clicking "Successful Motions" you can see an example of successful motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352, which specifies that BlockShare sales end at 23:59 UTC on August 21, 2015. When the B&C Forum is eventually running users will be able to search for a specific motion by motion hash.

Voting (https://bcblockexplorer.com/custodians) shows the status of any custodial grants on the network, along with the current support. For example, it appears that a small shareholder cast a test vote for BlockCredit address "CfMpuMotZeDPtiYpgB4y4NxBScJMYmjBe6" for 1 BKC but only received 6 votes in the past 10000 blocks. We recommend not filling up the blockchain with meaningless votes, although every shareholder is able to vote as they desire. As with motions, a successful custodial grant requires a vote in 5001 of the previous 10000 blocks to pass.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on August 22, 2015, 01:07:42 AM
Also, the team is currently debating (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/discussion-on-creating-a-peershares-master-forum-level/2388) how to structure our forum. While we're waiting for an official B&C forum to be launched, if any motions need to be posted, the team created this temporary board for B&C on the Nu forum...

https://discuss.nubits.com/c/b-c-exchange

Try and keep the conversation in this thread though, since keeping this thread bumped and on the first page is important for awareness.


Title: [ANN] B&C Exchange - Second-round sale has ENDED!
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 22, 2015, 09:23:26 AM
Time to update the initial post - no BKS left for sale ;)

[...]as specified by motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352.[...]



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 22, 2015, 04:01:50 PM
We should definitely keep this thread updated as many people new to cryptocurrency will scroll through Bitcointalk first.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 22, 2015, 04:37:22 PM
Time to update the initial post - no BKS left for sale ;)
[...]as specified by motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352.[...]

The original announcement has been updated. We will continue to update the BKS distribution table in the coming days, as the last BlockShare purchase requests are finalized. BlockShares are no longer available for purchase from us as of 23:59 UTC August 21, 2015.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 22, 2015, 06:53:13 PM
The new BlockShares fundraising total is $309,995. We are no longer accepting requests to purchase BlockShares, but still expect the fundraising total to change as we finalize the remaining purchase requests.

Motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 states that all undistributed BlockShares must be burned by 23:59 UTC August 30, 2015. We would like to request that all payments be made by August 28, 2015 to ensure that records can be reviewed and the burn completed before the 31st. If this will be a problem for a purchaser due to a lack of access to their funds until August 29 or August 30, please send us an email and BitMessage to work out alternative arrangements.

We would also like to remind people who purchased shares before the blockchain was created, but who haven't sent us BKS addresses to send them to, to please do so as soon as possible. There are a number of people in this position. We will hold onto their shares for an extended period in the hopes that we will have an opportunity to send them eventually. We will be following up with each of these users individually as well.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 23, 2015, 08:58:17 PM
The B&C Exchange team has completed the next requirement of motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352, which states

Quote
August 23, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares that have not been requested for purchase by August 21, 2015 will be burned.

Block explorer confirmation: https://bcblockexplorer.com/transactions/7f0aad5d884918153d2bf2468c11108519d4640e4de95177deb155426108e5b6
Transaction ID: 7f0aad5d884918153d2bf2468c11108519d4640e4de95177deb155426108e5b6
Block: 69368
Amount burned: 22,565.983 BKS

The only undistributed BlockShares remaining in our possession are for the following groups/purposes:

1) People who already paid for their BKS but haven't yet provided us with a BKS address to send them to
2) People who asked to purchase BKS before the August 21 deadline but haven't yet paid
3) 100 BKS held to pay for transaction fees on the final transfers, of which any unused BKS will be burned at the conclusion of BKS distribution

If you find yourself in group 1 and are having difficulty reaching us through email or BitMessage, please send us a PM here to confirm that we have received your message.

As a reminder, motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 states that all undistributed BlockShares must be burned by 23:59 UTC August 30, 2015. To ensure that our obligations are met all final payments must be made by August 28 to ensure that records can be reviewed and the burn completed before August 31. Whatever isn't paid for by August 28 will be burned before August 31.

Our fundraising total is now $311,161. A final BKS distribution table with exact BKS ownership numbers by group will be provided after the final August 30 burn.





Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 23, 2015, 09:29:40 PM
So is the number of outstanding BKS in the block explorer correct?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 23, 2015, 10:07:58 PM
So is the number of outstanding BKS in the block explorer correct?

No. Burns immediately lower the quantity of BlockShares on the blockchain. This can be seen by anyone with a B&C client by running the getinfo RPC and looking at the moneysupply value, which is 186,264.1782 right now. The figure on the block explorer website is not updated rapidly. We are working with our block explorer developer to ensure that an accurate total will be displayed once burns are complete.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 27, 2015, 04:53:50 AM
The new BlockShares fundraising total is $312,860.

Motion f8bcd3d068a6b35c92902a8d57e0e773e4e35352 states that all undistributed BlockShares must be burned by 23:59 UTC August 30, 2015. We would like to request that all payments be made by August 28, 2015 to ensure that records can be reviewed and the burn completed before the 31st. If this will be a problem for a purchaser due to a lack of access to their funds until August 29 or August 30, please send us an email and BitMessage to work out alternative arrangements.

We would also like to remind people who purchased shares before the blockchain was created, but who haven't sent us BKS addresses to send them to, to please do so as soon as possible. There are a number of people in this position. We will hold onto their shares for an extended period in the hopes that we will have an opportunity to send them eventually.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 27, 2015, 11:14:08 AM
I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 27, 2015, 01:32:43 PM
I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.

The motion is quite clear and I don't see room for alternative arrangements.

All BKS that have not been purchased before 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC need to be burned at 2015-08-28 23:59 UTC.

Who purchased before 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC needs to have deposited the payment before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.

The only alternative arrangement I can think of is a payment very close to 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC where the transaction is on the network, but not being processed fast enough to reach BCE before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.
I can imagine to save those BKS from being destroyed and wait until after the funds have reached BCE.

The BKS from people who purchased shares before the blockchain was created need to be excluded from the burned BKS. They will be delivered as soon as they provide BCE with a BKS address to deliver them to.
I assume that payment for those shares has already been received by BCE. If not, the motion applies to them as well.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 27, 2015, 02:41:18 PM
I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.

Who purchased before 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC needs to have deposited the payment before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.

The only alternative arrangement I can think of is a payment very close to 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC where the transaction is on the network, but not being processed fast enough to reach BCE before 2015-09-04 23:59 UTC.
I can imagine to save those BKS from being destroyed and wait until after the funds have reached BCE.




I disagree with you with regard to the date you mentioned (2015-09-04): 14 days after the motion has passed is what counts.

August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares remaining that have not been paid for - including those that were requested for purchase but not paid for - will be burned. At this point, all undistributed BlockShares will have been destroyed as per the motion. This date is fourteen days after the motion passed.

The motion has passed on August 16th. Therefore, payments have to be completed until August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC)! Otherwise, BKS that have not been paid for will be burned.

Anything wrong with those statements? Maybe I missed something.

I made a final request for BKS but forgot that the minimum requirement is 500$ per bid. I made that request for 100 BKS prior to the final deadline and corrected it after the deadline. The request has not been accepted then, which I fully understand and accept as the rules are straight to the point and should not be violated. This should count for every single point mentioned in the motion.

Am I correct?
 


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 27, 2015, 04:18:38 PM
I would like to know whether those "alternative arrangements" for delayed payments violate the terms of the motion in any way? If so, I am definitely against those alternative arrangements. We should stick to the motion, no matter what.

No, they do not violate the motion. The last requirement is:

Quote
August 30, 2015 (23:59 UTC) - Any BlockShares remaining that have not been paid for - including those that were requested for purchase but not paid for - will be burned. At this point, all undistributed BlockShares will have been destroyed as per the motion. This date is fourteen days after the motion passed.

We have requested that users make final payment by August 28th to ensure that we are able to comply with the burn on August 30th, as it takes time to verify purchase records and prepare an accurate burn count. Our comment "If this will be a problem for a purchaser due to a lack of access to their funds until August 29 or August 30, please send us an email and BitMessage to work out alternative arrangements" allows users to still pay after Aug 28 but before Aug 31 if they can't access their funds until those days. We just want to minimize the amount of record-keeping we do in the hours prior to the burn.

Requesting an August 28 payment deadline allows us to be certain that we can complete the burn by August 30 23:59 UTC, while still allowing users who may face extenuating circumstances to make payment on August 29 or August 30 if absolutely needed.

We agree that it is important that the terms of motions are upheld, just as we've done with all motions on the Nu network in the past. We have purposely posted the three important dates of the motion multiple times in this thread to ensure there is no ambiguity regarding our commitments.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 27, 2015, 08:53:59 PM
I disagree with you with regard to the date you mentioned (2015-09-04)[...]
It seems I messed up some dates - not only the one you mentioned, but all except for 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC ;)

[...]
We agree that it is important that the terms of motions are upheld, just as we've done with all motions on the Nu network in the past. We have purposely posted the three important dates of the motion multiple times in this thread to ensure there is no ambiguity regarding our commitments.

I wouldn't have doubted that with all the experience from Nu motions so far.
Typically motions are accompanied by a discussion - the longer the more controversial the topic is.
It's a pleasure to see important decisions being made then by vote from share holders and the corporation following them.

Tell me where else you find this way to form a reliable consensus that moves important things in a relatively short time?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 27, 2015, 10:59:24 PM
We have updated https://bcexchange.org with links to the design document and block explorer. Thank you for the suggestion.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 28, 2015, 05:22:02 PM
We have submitted a request to Coinmarketcap (https://coinmarketcap.com) to add BlockShares to its listing service. We hope to see it added soon.

BKS are currently traded on one exchange (CCEDK) on a NBT/BKS pair (https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-bks) and a BTC/BKS pair (https://www.ccedk.com/btc-bks). We have already requested that CCEDK flip the trading pairs to BKS/NBT and BKS/BTC and they are working on it.

We encourage all BKS holders to write to their favorite exchanges to request BKS trading support. What exchanges would you like to see BlockShares traded on? 


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sportscliche on August 28, 2015, 07:51:00 PM
We encourage all BKS holders to write to their favorite exchanges to request BKS trading support. What exchanges would you like to see BlockShares traded on?  

How about the B&C Exchange?  That's the whole point of this, right?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 28, 2015, 07:58:38 PM
How about the B&C Exchange?  That's the whole point of this, right?

Once B&C Exchange trading is developed and implemented, you can be quite sure that BlockShares will be available there! In the meantime, it is an advantage for BlockShareholders to have several platforms to trade BKS on. It is also beneficial for our project to have exposure on as many exchanges as possible as a form of indirect advertising.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 29, 2015, 01:41:57 PM
If anyone is willing to sell Blockshares, I would take them for 4.10 dollars per BKS.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 29, 2015, 01:57:21 PM
If anyone is willing to sell Blockshares, I would take them for 4.10 dollars per BKS.

Looking at the price level at ccedk (https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-bks) you seem to be a little bit to low with your offer.

The best NBT sell (= BKS buy) offer (http://imgur.com/9yQjh1p) is at 4.25 NBT (0.235 BKS per NBT).
If you try to get BKS from the BKS sell side, you have to pay 4.34 NBT (0.23 BKS per NBT).

I expect the price level to rise, because the BKS sale from BCE has been ended - but you are aware of that ;)
...and I hope for the trading pair to get flipped soon - this notation really makes the brain hurt :)



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BlankoB on August 29, 2015, 04:18:15 PM
If anyone is willing to sell Blockshares, I would take them for 4.10 dollars per BKS.

Looking at the price level at ccedk (https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-bks) you seem to be a little bit to low with your offer.

The best NBT sell (= BKS buy) offer (http://imgur.com/9yQjh1p) is at 4.25 NBT (0.235 BKS per NBT).
If you try to get BKS from the BKS sell side, you have to pay 4.34 NBT (0.23 BKS per NBT).

I expect the price level to rise, because the BKS sale from BCE has been ended - but you are aware of that ;)
...and I hope for the trading pair to get flipped soon - this notation really makes the brain hurt :)


Why sell the goose laying the golden eggs?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mistercoin on August 29, 2015, 04:31:49 PM
I disagree with you with regard to the date you mentioned (2015-09-04)[...]
It seems I messed up some dates - not only the one you mentioned, but all except for 2015-08-21 23:59 UTC ;)

[...]
We agree that it is important that the terms of motions are upheld, just as we've done with all motions on the Nu network in the past. We have purposely posted the three important dates of the motion multiple times in this thread to ensure there is no ambiguity regarding our commitments.

I wouldn't have doubted that with all the experience from Nu motions so far.
Typically motions are accompanied by a discussion - the longer the more controversial the topic is.
It's a pleasure to see important decisions being made then by vote from share holders and the corporation following them.

Tell me where else you find this way to form a reliable consensus that moves important things in a relatively short time?


I agree. I only *just* found out about this project (just my luck, just a couple days late...) and am regretting not finding out about it sooner. Very professional handling of announcement, shares and distribution, to say the least. I do not say that often.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 29, 2015, 05:42:18 PM
I wouldn't have doubted that with all the experience from Nu motions so far.
Typically motions are accompanied by a discussion - the longer the more controversial the topic is.
It's a pleasure to see important decisions being made then by vote from share holders and the corporation following them.

Tell me where else you find this way to form a reliable consensus that moves important things in a relatively short time?


I agree. I only *just* found out about this project (just my luck, just a couple days late...) and am regretting not finding out about it sooner. Very professional handling of announcement, shares and distribution, to say the least. I do not say that often.

The whole funding round and the communication has been a pleasure so far - let's hope that this can be prolonged to the operation of the exchange :)
But looking at the results of creating the Nu network (https://nubits.com) I have some hope that this development team and the share holders will make something ingenious.
Roughly 310 BKS are for sale on ccedk at the moment with a price not far above the latest sell price by Blocks&Chains Exchange.
If you want some BKS, go and get them ;)

The last 39 BKS for sale at ccedk are quite expensive at 8 NBT (= 8 USD) compared to the price before Blocks&Chains Exchange stopped the sale (after the share holders decided to do exactly that).

Why sell the goose laying the golden eggs?
Because it doesn't yet lay eggs - neither golden nor any other; except the eggs you receive for selling BKS.
People who are over invested might want to get rid of some shares, because it might take some time to make the exchange operational.
So far there's the (justified!) hope that this exchange might be such a goose.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on August 29, 2015, 07:34:58 PM
Nice project. Gonna follow this thread.

BTW Are there any milestones or estimated time of launching some concrete alpha/beta implementation of B&C Exchange?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 29, 2015, 07:51:19 PM
Nice project. Gonna follow this thread.

BTW Are there any milestones or estimated time of launching some concrete alpha/beta implementation of B&C Exchange?

I'm not aware of estimated time of the milestones, but a kind of development road map can be found here in the thread.
For convenience here's an estimate about the total time of completion:

2) Given your funding request will be successful, how long will it take to realize the project?

This is an important question, and one I would like to know the answer to as well. Development of an unprecedented software solution such as B&C Exchange is characterized by the unfolding of unexpected issues which must be solved.

I have delivered an unprecedented blockchain solution in the past in the form of the Nu network, which pioneered stable cryptocurrency and the ability of shareholders to constantly adjust the protocol by voting. The network worked just as promised and was delivered in 8 months at a cost of around 250,000 USD. While I made no promises about the time it would take to deliver Nu, I will report that I privately thought it would take 6 months and 500,000 USD. So, I was 50% under budget and 33% over my private time estimate.

I can say that I believe B&C Exchange is modestly or slightly simpler than creating the Peershare template and Nu. I am absolutely committed to doing everything in my power to delivering it as quickly as possible. However, investors should be aware that I am unable to absolutely guarantee its delivery at all, and I can't guarantee it will be delivered in a certain time frame or for a certain cost.


Here's some information about milestones:

Would it be possible to get say monthly updates on development of B&C?

I certainly expect you will see visible progress and updates at much shorter intervals.

There has been a concentration of holidays taken by team members the last couple weeks, so progress has been slow within that time interval. I expect we will see quite a bit of progress over the next month, although I know most team members have additional holidays scheduled.

We have two independent iterations moving forward right now. Sigmike is working on the reputation voting system along with its associated block reward as detailed on pages 14 and 15 of the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf). John (aka erasmospunk) will be working on the other voting features unique to B&C Exchange as detailed on page 3 and 4 of the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf). When complete, these changes will be deployed to our publicly available test network, but will not be added to the production network until enough development has been completed to make the exchange fully functional.

When those iterations are complete, we will begin implementing the individual message types unique to B&C Exchange which are described in detail in the design document. Each will be implemented in our public test network when complete. Here is a summary of those message types:

1. Reputed signer deposit public key list
2. Non-reputed signer deposit address request
3. Non-reputed signer withdrawal address request
4. Order
5. Order validation
6. Fill (not signed and no transaction fee)
7. Fill validation
8. Fund transfer
9. Cancel order
10. Withdraw from deposit address
11. Pairing of BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses

We will start with forming the message pairing BlockCredit and BlockShare addresses and client processing of that message. Next will be the reputed signer deposit public key list. Then we will add the non-reputed signer deposit address request message. We will continue to add the rest of the messages to testnet one at a time in the approximate order they would be used in typically.

When the bulk of the messages have been implemented we will begin developing the web interface.

If additional funding is received, we could see additional goodies such as an Android interface that simultaneously functions as a wallet for assets being traded.


Here's some information about goodies that can be expected now that the funding is way beyond the minimum funding:

Is it correct to assume that with this level of funding the development of CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and and Android app has at least been secured? Also, JordanLee mentioned that (estimation) with another 10-20k dollars a specific type of escrow service could be developed by making certain changes to the protocol. That should also more or less be covered, shouldn't it?
I really hope that the recent boost in funding pays off for us instead of diluting all our shares without really getting something extra to the version that we were supposed to see with 200k funding.
For the future, I would really like to see an outline of a certain feature and the required funding for the development. Otherwise it might be tempting for those in charge of the funds to talk down the raised amount of money and overemphasize the required development efforts.
Looking forward to see as many additional features as possible for the extra 50k raised.

Cheers,
BTP

It will be months before those projects can be started. That means the situation might shift some between now and then. For instance, a better and more urgent use of the funds may emerge. For these reasons I'm not sure it is optimal to commit funds to it now. I do think they ought to be the top priorities (CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY and the Android app, with the escrow framework as a third priority).

When it does become time to decide whether to commit to an Android app, it makes the most sense to pass a motion to transfer a specific quantity of NuBits raised to the developer that commits to developing it, such as Giannis or Cybnate. There isn't much reason for me to be directly involved in that because it doesn't pertain to the core client software.

So, shareholders can decide whatever they want to about how funds raised are allocated and spent. As always, I will be very responsive to motions. But it is probably premature to commit to specific features many months before development begins.

Reputation voting has been implemented. You can see screenshots of the user interface for it here (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/pull-requests/14/reputation-vote). Once the reputation reward is done (currently in progress), the other new voting types are complete (also in progress) and Bitcoin dividends are supported we will push a release to test net. It probably makes sense to push this release to production so that reputed signers can get established before the exchange is operational.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on August 29, 2015, 07:57:41 PM
we're gonna be soooo rich


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on August 29, 2015, 08:21:54 PM
@masterOfDisarter

Thanks for the reply.

It looks promising.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 29, 2015, 08:38:45 PM
[...]
Thanks for the reply.

It looks promising.

You are welcome! I try to follow the development closely, because lacking OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY MercuryExchange doesn't work at the moment and all other decentralized exchange approaches are very complex, using proxy assets to trade etc.
And I agree that BCE is very promising.

BCE's design is just so simple - a broker for multi signature transactions in foreign blockchains!

If you try to read the thread from the start keep in mind that the initial funding was planned in a different way, by making BCE a 100% subsidiary company of Nu. That didn't work, was changed and finally lead to a successful funding.

The design document is not up-to-date as well.
The most important change is the total amount of created BKS (less than 200,000 compared to the initially planned hundreds of millions) along with an adjusted minimum amount of BKS for minting (down from 10,000 to 1).


@masterOfDisarter
[...]
I hope I didn't come across as someone removing art or turning art into non art :P


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on August 30, 2015, 12:08:02 AM
In the Project Development section, B&C is now the 18th most viewed project.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: SparkedDev on August 30, 2015, 12:23:40 AM
Ill be following this more closely havent checked this section in a while so im need to keep checking it.
Nice project.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BlankoB on August 30, 2015, 11:41:29 AM
Quite often go Orphan blocks of 0.01 in B&C EXChange v3.0.0-RC2-beta!
What could be the problem? >:(


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 30, 2015, 12:10:28 PM
Quite often go Orphan blocks of 0.01 in B&C EXChange v3.0.0-RC2-beta!
What could be the problem? >:(

A bad internet internet connection can cause such issues as well as a high CPU load.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BlankoB on August 30, 2015, 12:51:15 PM
Quite often go Orphan blocks of 0.01 in B&C EXChange v3.0.0-RC2-beta!
What could be the problem? >:(

A bad internet internet connection can cause such issues as well as a high CPU load.
Removed unnecessary processes from the CPU, and immediately got a good block. Thank you MOD


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on August 30, 2015, 11:12:32 PM
Could someone provide me an explanation of how exactly Nushares might benefit from B&CEx?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 31, 2015, 03:56:05 AM
The distribution of BKS is now entirely complete. Sales have ceased and all purchased BKS have been delivered to investors. In this funding round, 59,048.85 BKS were sold for a total of $240,764 at an average price of $4.077 each. The final total funds raised are $320,764 (including the seed round).

The final step was a burn of all remaining BKS. In addition to burning 22,565.983 BKS a week ago (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/passed-motion-to-provide-seed-funding-for-b-c-exchange-a-decentralized-exchange-built-on-the-peershares-platform/2001/629), 1596.5201 BKS was burned in this transaction (https://bcblockexplorer.com/transactions/eaadd129bf5bf4535f8052ebfd58a8dde01e5eb667d7eba2d6afce3f7ff4d9f3) and this one (https://bcblockexplorer.com/transactions/20ad66dea6451f110476cc378ac88366a86f76947f2e25813c32bab5ce652df4). This includes funds that were set aside for transaction fees and some BKS that were bid for a little over week ago but which were never paid for.

The total number of BlockShares on the blockchain and in circulation is 184,765.96 right now. This can only be augmented by the 0.01 BKS block reward, the variable reputed signer block reward we will soon add, and BKS grants approved directly by shareholders.

We expect this will provide funding for the core implementation as well as a number of extra features or even products. While the extra features implemented should probably be decided by shareholders when the core implementation is closer to being complete, implementation of CHECKTIMELOCKVERIFY in Nu and B&C as well a utilization of it in B&C for any chains that support it, escrow capabilities and an Android app that combines a multi coin wallet with full support for B&C Exchange are likely features/products the extra funds will be dedicated to.

The 4.0 release of B&C Exchange is mostly code complete. We hope to have it on testnet very soon. Once it performs satisfactorily there, it will be promoted to production. It includes reputation voting, reputation block rewards, and support for Bitcoin dividends. It will be a mandatory upgrade due to the protocol changes.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on August 31, 2015, 04:05:44 AM
Could someone provide me an explanation of how exactly Nushares might benefit from B&CEx?

There are at least two ways B&C Exchange will benefit NuShare holders. First, NuBits will be used as the denominator on many if not most trading pairs. The exchange will feature a BTC/NBT pair, LTC/NBT pair, PPC/NBT pair, etc. This is expected to increase the number of NuBits held, which is likely to result in dividends to NuShare holders, NuShare buy backs and burns, or both.

The second way B&C Exchange will benefit NuShare holders is by offering a NSR/NBT trading pair that will increase NuShare liquidity, which makes it a more attractive investment.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on August 31, 2015, 04:47:24 AM
Could someone provide me an explanation of how exactly Nushares might benefit from B&CEx?

There are at least two ways B&C Exchange will benefit NuShare holders. First, NuBits will be used as the denominator on many if not most trading pairs. The exchange will feature a BTC/NBT pair, LTC/NBT pair, PPC/NBT pair, etc. This is expected to increase the number of NuBits held, which is likely to result in dividends to NuShare holders, NuShare buy backs and burns, or both.

The second way B&C Exchange will benefit NuShare holders is by offering a NSR/NBT trading pair that will increase NuShare liquidity, which makes it a more attractive investment.


I think the most benefit for nu is that those liquidity providers(lpc)can shift from other exchanges to B&C exchange, welcome home, safer here.

And would lpc pay the transaction fee to B&C?  


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on August 31, 2015, 09:03:05 AM
[...]
And would lpc pay the transaction fee to B&C?  

How else would they be able to execute transactions, which is necessary to place orders?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on September 01, 2015, 07:07:44 PM
What are the prospects of trading being enabled by the end of 2015?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on September 02, 2015, 12:36:59 AM
What are the prospects of trading being enabled by the end of 2015?

I'm very keen to see trading start as soon as possible. Be aware that the start of trading is likely to be anti-climactic, because I expect trading will start with very low maximum trades sizes, such as $1. As the network proves itself, the maximum trade size permitted will increase in proportion to shareholders' confidence in it.

The biggest factor controlling when development is complete is the number of hours per week or month spent by sigmike and Giannis coding the specifications. sigmike, Giannis and I have discussed the amount of hours per week they expect to devote to the project, but I am not sure they would like that publicized. I'm curious to see whether they are comfortable making public commitments about the number of hours per week/month they will devote to B&C Exchange development going forward. Obviously, the hours they spend on the project are out of my control. However, I can hire an additional developer, and I am considering it. Sigmike and Giannis are our first choice because they know Peershares well and have delivered excellent products in the peer to peer finance space recently.

By way of a progress update, sigmike has just completed the reputation system, including the reputation block reward, with this pull request which has screenshots attached that would be meaningful to non-technical users (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/pull-requests/22/reputed-signer-reward/diff#comment-None). I estimate the core B&C Exchange client is 20% complete at this point. I'm hopeful that with summer holidays behind us, the pace of development will pick up.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mhps on September 03, 2015, 06:18:14 AM
Could someone provide me an explanation of how exactly Nushares might benefit from B&CEx?

B&C and Nu share code base. New software development by well-funded B&C will directly benefit Nu. It's like Nu gets a free dev team.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on September 03, 2015, 10:29:42 PM
You are welcome! I try to follow the development closely, because lacking OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY MercuryExchange doesn't work at the moment and all other decentralized exchange approaches are very complex, using proxy assets to trade etc.
And I agree that BCE is very promising.

BCE's design is just so simple - a broker for multi signature transactions in foreign blockchains!

If you try to read the thread from the start keep in mind that the initial funding was planned in a different way, by making BCE a 100% subsidiary company of Nu. That didn't work, was changed and finally lead to a successful funding.

The design document is not up-to-date as well.
The most important change is the total amount of created BKS (less than 200,000 compared to the initially planned hundreds of millions) along with an adjusted minimum amount of BKS for minting (down from 10,000 to 1).
Thanks for summarizing the whole story of BCE.

It's a shame I arrived too late for the party (crowdfunding)...

But it's just the beginning of this incredible "decentralized autonomous interexchange".


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on September 04, 2015, 05:04:01 AM
Thanks for summarizing the whole story of BCE.
[...]
You are welcome! :)

[...]
It's a shame I arrived too late for the party (crowdfunding)...

But it's just the beginning of this incredible "decentralized autonomous interexchange".

You might have come too late for the crowdfunding, but the part hasn't started yet ;)
If you want to join the party, have a look here: https://www.ccedk.com/nbt-bks
Try not to get confused by the pair; bks-nbt would be easier to understand at first glance :)
What I'm trying to say is - there's a total of over 400 BKS available at CCEDK (http://imgur.com/IH0o4yO) a reasonable price (if you would have paid up to $4.16 during the funding it's not far above).

Price (BKS)Volume (NBT)Total (BKSNBT/BKS
0.235148.678409634.939426264.26
0.2321.231685654.88328774.35
0.225888.88888889200.004.44
0.22863.63636364190.004.55
0.14142.8571428620.007.14
0.14357.1428571450.007.14
0.125232.0029.008.00
0.125160.0020.008.00

Yes, it's just the beginning - of the BKS holders hope it will be ;)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 05, 2015, 02:12:50 AM
We have added several new features to our B&C Exchange block explorer. (https://bcblockexplorer.com)

Status (https://bcblockexplorer.com/status): This page shows many different network status metrics. Several options, including market cap and market price of BKS and BKC, won't be available until we are listed on coinmarketcap.com.

Of particular interest is our Wealthiest BlockShares Addresses (https://bcblockexplorer.com/status/richListBKS) listing. This page lists the top BKS addresses by share ownership.

Charts (https://bcblockexplorer.com/charts/size): This page shows several charts of network statistics, including average block sizes, average network difficulty, average number of blocks, average number of transactions, and more.

Our block explorer is nearing complete basic functionality with these updates. Please let us know if you encounter errors or incorrect data while using the explorer.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CCEDKaps on September 08, 2015, 11:04:24 AM
Dear all, please cancel all orders on the bks pairs on https://www.ccedk.com/, as we are creating the requested changes today. In case you dont do, we are cancelling them ourselves, and you will need to list once again then instead. Either way within a few hours today, you should see the requested change of the bks pairs, so that in future the will be

BKS/NBT and BKS/BTC

this information is for whomever could have an interest in the trading of BKS pairs on CCEDK, thanks.

I am also making a tweet on this matter right now on @CCEDK_

#important BKS pairs on CCEDK.com are being flipped today! All open orders are cancelled. Pls redo. Thanks for your help.

Thank you

Yours sincerely

Ronny Boesing

CEO

 
CCEDK / Crypto Coins Exchange Denmark ApS

Web: www.ccedk.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/CCEDK_
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CCEDK
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/ronny-boesing/20/617/65b


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on September 08, 2015, 04:33:32 PM
Drum roll...
...
more drum roll...
...
It's done!

http://i.imgur.com/Q8DfNWE.png


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 08, 2015, 04:59:19 PM
CCEDK's decision to use NuBits (NBT) as a base trading pair for BlockShares (BKS) is wise. Because NuBits have been stable at $1.00 US, traders can quickly understand the actual pricing being displayed. In the case where 1.00 BKS is available for purchase at a rate of 4.00 NBT, a trader will now understand that it will cost him $4.00. We are also happy to see a BKS/BTC trading pair added that will cater to the important Bitcoin community.

We would also like to announce that we have a basic exchange integration guide for BlockShares trading (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/wiki/Exchange%20Integration). Any interested exchanges can use this guide to add BKS trading to their platform. We encourage all BlockShareholders to send this guide to their favorite exchanges too.

BKS Exchange Integration Guide: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/wiki/Exchange%20Integration


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 09, 2015, 09:12:13 PM
BlockShares have been added to coinmarketcap.com! The opening market cap is $884,664 based on a supply of 184,905 BKS and a price of $4.78 per BKS.

You can access the BlockShares page at http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/blockshares/.

http://i.imgur.com/hd7cYDd.png



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 09, 2015, 10:14:21 PM
We intend on approaching various exchanges at regular intervals to add BlockShares trading to their platforms. It will be an advantage for our project to be traded on many exchanges prior to our full release, both to encourage high liquidity of BKS and to increase our brand awareness.

The first exchange we would like all BlockShareholders to contact is Poloniex. They have been an active exchange for NuBits and NuShares and are a suitable platform for BKS trading.

Please submit a request to add BlockShares here: https://poloniex.com/coinRequest

Quote
Relevant Information for Submission:

What is the name of the coin? BlockShares

What is the coin's symbol? BKS

Please link to the announcement page. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.0

If the coin has a website, please link it here. https://bcexchange.org

If the coin has a block explorer, please link it here. https://bcblockexplorer.com

The final two sections can be filled out however you like. You might mention that Poloniex is an excellent exchange and that BlockShares have been developed by a reputable, established cryptocurrency team. You could also mention the high activity in this Bitcointalk thread. Be sure to mention our existing exchange integration guide here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/wiki/Exchange%20Integration





Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BitcoinNational on September 10, 2015, 01:52:05 AM
@BCExchange

How does a coin-community do /coinRequest for their coin to be listed on the B&C platform?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 10, 2015, 02:29:46 PM
@BCExchange

How does a coin-community do /coinRequest for their coin to be listed on the B&C platform?

It will be up to BlockShareholders to decide which coins are listed on B&C Exchange, through the use of motions. Shareholders might decide to establish a set of criteria for addition to B&C Exchange (such as a coin having an active community, active development, and unique innovation), or they might request payment. We can't predict what a decentralized group of shareholders will decide. However, we expect that shareholders will begin deciding issues like these once we are closer to releasing an exchange with basic trading enabled.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on September 10, 2015, 02:46:53 PM
@BCExchange

How does a coin-community do /coinRequest for their coin to be listed on the B&C platform?

It will be up to BlockShareholders to decide which coins are listed on B&C Exchange, through the use of motions. Shareholders might decide to establish a set of criteria for addition to B&C Exchange [...]

Thoughts from the corresponding thread on discuss.nubits.com (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/will-b-c-list-coins-for-free/2651) regarding adding of coins to BCE:

Quote
I think it depends - on technical and economical conditions; and on the BKS holders!

BCE will be listing coins which are supposed to bring the most revenue.
Integrating coins requires some programming effort and reputed signers need to be found as well.

I suppose that being open source is a requirement for security purposes - no one, especially not signers, should risk having their systems compromised by closed source products with hidden functions (which is one the reasons why Nu was made open source).

If a corporation or community wants to have a coin listed that is not high on BCE's agenda (because the expected revenue is less than other coins that are in the works), the position might be improved by funding the development.
I can imagine having a motion to include a coin to BCE passed by the BKS holders in which the "contract" between "purchaser" and BCE is settled after a specified amount of BKS has been bought and burned by the purchaser or a specified amount of payment has been deposited to an [NBT|BTC|PPC] multi signature address under control of BCE.

I can imagine that some coins will have a hard time getting listed (even if they offer to pay generously), because the BKS holders are just not feeling right about it (...Paycoin...).

So I don't suppose that in general a fee might be required or even help.
In some cases it might be different ;)



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on September 11, 2015, 02:00:23 AM
We are hiring an additional C++ developer to move our completion date closer.

The Senior C++ developer will be contributing to the B&C Exchange core client, intended for use by B&C shareholders and reputed signers. The code is open-source and can be viewed here (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange). You may wish to take a look at the design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf) that will define the work you will do.

Experience in C++, Qt, blockchain development, development related to peer to peer currencies, experience trading financial assets, developing trading software and experience working with a distributed team from home are all desirable attributes.

Compensation will be hourly, ranging from 50 NuBits (USD) to 100 NuBits (USD), depending on experience. The position will last at least until the specifications in the design document are complete, which will be at least a few months. Depending on the success of the project, additional funding may be available to continue work after the initial implementation is complete. You will be working sigmike, John Jegutanis and myself.

Demonstration of competence, motivation and trustworthiness are paramount concerns to me in hiring for this position. Nothing else really matters. It isn't important what your real name is, what country or time zone you live in, or when you work. Most likely, successful candidates will be able to demonstrate their passion for developing peer to peer financial solutions with past work.

If you are interested, please contact Jordan Lee by email at jlee@vistomail.com or by Bitmessage at BM-2cXS5ezep1jUqeu8CwC6M4aTmMSxcFEHNN



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: crypti PR on September 11, 2015, 09:39:15 AM
I would love to see Crypti (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654463) on B&C Exchange! :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: marthagriffin on September 12, 2015, 10:49:29 AM
I see under distributed dividends peercoin address. An mistake?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on September 12, 2015, 01:22:06 PM
I see under distributed dividends peercoin address. An mistake?

The BCE code is based on the Nu code.
And (big) parts of the BCE code are still in the original form.
PPC dividends are from the Nu code.
If you click on "Receive" in the wallet, you find even more PPC addresses ;)
Don't worry, this will be changed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on September 12, 2015, 09:00:23 PM
I see under distributed dividends peercoin address. An mistake?

I would like to add a few details to the information provided by masterOfDisaster.

Support for Bitcoin dividends will be included in the 4.0 B&C Exchange release. Previously, exporting Peershares dividend keys required connecting to a satoshi client. That isn't practical for Bitcoin users in most cases, so 4.0 can also display private Bitcoin dividend keys that can be copied to the clipboard and imported to the Bitcoin wallet of your choice.

4.0 will include a complete implementation of all voting features and the reputation subsystem. This includes reputation voting and the block reward for reputed signers. The 4.0 release is at least 80% code complete. Once it is code complete, we will move it to test net. Once it has proven itself there, we will promote it to the production network.

After 4.0 is coded we will begin implementing the messages needed to support deposits, withdrawals and trading.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: marthagriffin on September 13, 2015, 01:16:31 PM
thank you. Would the source be public after release 4.0?
I hope Blockshares will be more succesful than etherum


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 13, 2015, 04:16:19 PM
thank you. Would the source be public after release 4.0?
I hope Blockshares will be more succesful than etherum

Yes the source code will remain open unless BlockShareholders vote to close it. You can track development progress and review the source code here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/src. This link is also available on the front page of https://bcexchange.org.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: marthagriffin on September 14, 2015, 01:38:52 PM
low volume on exchange  :-[ , but I remember Nubits first two weeks relative low volumen than the rise of the N


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends - 89% funded
Post by: Financisto on September 14, 2015, 05:40:28 PM
If shareholders vote to burn undistributed BlockShares, the relative percentages for each group would change, but every group would have a higher percentage of equity of the network.

I see. Tks for clarifying. It was not really clear since the ~ is difficult to interpret correctly.
So there is a still an incentive for everybody not to go far beyond 200k total at least from a financial perspective since you get more shares for the same money invested but this is to be decided by shareholders ultimately.
Also, what would not change is the price that seed investors got: 2 usd a share whatever the total raised money.
I guess I misunderstood that...and got the wrong value paid by 1st seed investors...

Unnecessary piece of comment removed...


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 17, 2015, 04:27:28 AM
We are posting this message again, and encourage all BlockShareholders to help us out!

***

We intend on approaching various exchanges at regular intervals to add BlockShares trading to their platforms. It will be an advantage for our project to be traded on many exchanges prior to our full release, both to encourage high liquidity of BKS and to increase our brand awareness.

The first exchange we would like all BlockShareholders to contact is Poloniex. They have been an active exchange for NuBits and NuShares and are a suitable platform for BKS trading.

Please submit a request to add BlockShares here: https://poloniex.com/coinRequest

Quote
Relevant Information for Submission:

What is the name of the coin? BlockShares

What is the coin's symbol? BKS

Please link to the announcement page. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.0

If the coin has a website, please link it here. https://bcexchange.org

If the coin has a block explorer, please link it here. https://bcblockexplorer.com

The final two sections can be filled out however you like. You might mention that Poloniex is an excellent exchange and that BlockShares have been developed by a reputable, established cryptocurrency team. You could also mention the high activity in this Bitcointalk thread. Be sure to mention our existing exchange integration guide here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/wiki/Exchange%20Integration




Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on September 17, 2015, 10:41:59 AM
We are posting this message again, and encourage all BlockShareholders to help us out!

***


Submitted the coin request. This should get the ball rolling :P


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: salsero on September 18, 2015, 11:45:27 AM
Done

We are posting this message again, and encourage all BlockShareholders to help us out!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on September 21, 2015, 12:42:51 PM
Both price and volume gaining traction!

Recent BKS price:
http://i.imgur.com/jHJZJTN.png

CCEDK BKS/NBT history:
http://i.imgur.com/IpVowyQ.png


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on September 23, 2015, 03:26:50 PM
any update on the development side?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on September 23, 2015, 04:33:16 PM
It looks like version 4.0.0 (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/commits/d8a67c726d9d73282856c991669d993fd2447a37) is being worked on.
More details here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/branch/4.0-stable#diff


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on September 23, 2015, 05:45:04 PM
It looks like version 4.0.0 (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/commits/d8a67c726d9d73282856c991669d993fd2447a37) is being worked on.
More details here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/branch/4.0-stable#diff

Tks for the pointers.
So Nu is at version 2.0...at least.
and BCE is at version 3.0....and soon 4.0.
Wondering about the relationships between Nu and BCE....
BCE is a fork of Nu....
But the enhancement and innovation implemented into BCE could be brought to Nu as well, I suppose.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on September 24, 2015, 03:41:42 AM
We would like to congratulate NuBits on becoming the first decentralized digital currency in history to maintain a $1.00 price peg for one year.

Announcement: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/september-23-2015-nubits-becomes-the-first-decentralized-digital-currency-in-history-to-maintain-1-00-for-an-entire-year/2750

We are confident that using NuBits for many, if not most, of B&C Exchange base trading pairs will be a convenient feature for traders.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on September 24, 2015, 03:41:43 PM
any update on the development side?

The backend functionality for the voting features unique to B&C Exchange has been completed since the last update. All that remains for the 4.0 release is the user interface for those new voting features, which John Jegutanis is currently working on.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on September 25, 2015, 12:48:21 AM
Wondering about the relationships between Nu and BCE....
BCE is a fork of Nu....
But the enhancement and innovation implemented into BCE could be brought to Nu as well, I suppose.

There is definitely a synergy in the development of the two code bases. The benefit goes both ways: Nu 3.0 will contain innovations first seen in B&C Exchange, while B&C Exchange contains many innovations first seen in Nu. I expect this back and forth sharing to continue. And of course, the synergy and sharing is broader than that. Besides B&C Exchange and Nu being a fork of Bitcoin and then Peercoin, we regularly include innovations first seen in the Bitcoin network. Similarly, anyone is free to benefit from our open source code. We exist in the new sharing economy. Its very healthy and efficient. Innovations spread broadly and quickly.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on September 25, 2015, 01:58:13 AM
@jordanlee Tks for the info.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: marthagriffin on September 26, 2015, 09:28:14 AM
@JordanLee: if blockshares has more traiding pairs (for example the upcomming currencies), the volume will increase
(it is my opinion)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on September 26, 2015, 03:28:54 PM
@JordanLee: if blockshares has more traiding pairs (for example the upcomming currencies), the volume will increase
(it is my opinion)

I agree. It appears there is general agreement among NuShare holders that additional currencies should be supported by the Nu network, which would permit B&C Exchange to host trading pairs denominated in Yuan and Euro pegged currencies, for instance. The main barrier to adding additional currencies is supporting them with liquidity operations. Decentralised liquidity operations have been developing and growing rapidly in recent months in terms of the number of users, number of pools and the total quantity of liquidity offered. It is likely that continued growth in this area will facilitate the support of additional pegged currencies relatively soon, which would open the way for their use on B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: marthagriffin on September 26, 2015, 04:11:45 PM
I think the users of such currencies with low transaction volume (for example NMC or assets like Gemz) will enjoy the plan


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mably on September 26, 2015, 04:14:25 PM
It would be interesting to have a comparison with other decentralized exchanges like Coinffeine (http://coinffeine.com).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on September 27, 2015, 08:02:09 PM
It would be interesting to have a comparison with other decentralized exchanges like Coinffeine (http://coinffeine.com).

Based on some brief research, Coinffeine is a desktop application focusing on facilitating fiat and Bitcoin exchange. The fiat must be offered by an irreversible payment processor, specifically OKPay at this time. Prior to commencement of a trade, both parties must submit a deposit. Their website says if one party does not complete their part of the trade, they lose their deposit. This raises the question of who is holding the deposit and who decides whether a deposit is forfeited. I don't see a way to have that occur without a trusted authority. Perhaps someone who understands Coinffeine better can explain that to us.

Their project is over a year and half old and I couldn't find a way to download their software (http://coinffeine.com/download.html), though I did see a report that it has been deployed in 70 countries as a technical preview in July.

To compare with B&C Exchange, we only facilitate trading of blockchain assets while Coinffeine is designed to facilitate Bitcoin to fiat transfer. B&C Exchange doesn't require any funds other than those being traded and small amount of BlockCredits as fees, while Coinffeine requires an additional deposit. B&C Exchange will use a number of multisig signers dynamically voted for by shareholders to hold funds, while I am unaware of how Coinffiene deposits are held. B&C gets revenue from BlockCredits burned as transaction fees in every transaction. I saw an article claim "Coinffeine is not currently charging fees, but the CEO noted that OKPay would charge a 0.5% commission for bitcoin purchases" (https://www.coindesk.com/coinffeine-launches-p2p-bitcoin-exchange-in-over-70-countries/). I don't know how they will charge fees in a decentralised manner in the future. B&C Exchange will offer trading access via an open source web app that uses no database other than the blockchain that can be hosted by anyone and likely an Android app, while Coinffeine will employ a thick client.

I'm certainly no expert on Coinffeine, so if I missed something or if someone can explain how their deposits work and how they will receive revenue, please enlighten us.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mably on September 27, 2015, 08:26:47 PM
It would be interesting to have a comparison with other decentralized exchanges like Coinffeine (http://coinffeine.com).

Based on some brief research, Coinffeine is a desktop application focusing on facilitating fiat and Bitcoin exchange. The fiat must be offered by an irreversible payment processor, specifically OKPay at this time. Prior to commencement of a trade, both parties must submit a deposit. Their website says if one party does not complete their part of the trade, they lose their deposit. This raises the question of who is holding the deposit and who decides whether a deposit is forfeited. I don't see a way to have that occur without a trusted authority. Perhaps someone who understands Coinffeine better can explain that to us.

Their project is over a year and half old and I couldn't find a way to download their software (http://coinffeine.com/download.html), though I did see a report that it has been deployed in 70 countries as a technical preview in July.

To compare with B&C Exchange, we only facilitate trading of blockchain assets while Coinffeine is designed to facilitate Bitcoin to fiat transfer. B&C Exchange doesn't require any funds other than those being traded and small amount of BlockCredits as fees, while Coinffeine requires an additional deposit. B&C Exchange will use a number of multisig signers dynamically voted for by shareholders to hold funds, while I am unaware of how Coinffiene deposits are held. B&C gets revenue from BlockCredits burned as transaction fees in every transaction. I saw an article claim "Coinffeine is not currently charging fees, but the CEO noted that OKPay would charge a 0.5% commission for bitcoin purchases" (https://www.coindesk.com/coinffeine-launches-p2p-bitcoin-exchange-in-over-70-countries/). I don't know how they will charge fees in a decentralised manner in the future. B&C Exchange will offer trading access via an open source web app that uses no database other than the blockchain that can be hosted by anyone and likely an Android app, while Coinffeine will employ a thick client.

I'm certainly no expert on Coinffeine, so if I missed something or if someone can explain how their deposits work and how they will receive revenue, please enlighten us.

Hi Jordan,

It looks like they removed their download page very recently as I have been able to download it a few days ago.

I was able to make a successful bitcoin sell order and was paid almost immediately on my OKPay account.

It looks like Coinffeine doesn't hold anything as everthing seems to be done directly between peers.

At the moment it looks like orders and peer IP addresses can be matched.  That's probably the reason they decided to remove the download page until this security flaw is fixed.

I think the Coinffeine micropayment channel could be something interesting to plug into B&C for fiat payments.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mhps on September 28, 2015, 01:56:16 AM
Major payment processors such as PerfectMoney, OKpay, Payeer already allow users to buy/sell bitcoin using their account balance from processors' web interface. Coinffeine is just another channel to do it. It might be peer-to-peer, with less/no middleman, but since OKpay users already trust their money to OKpay, they shouldn't be worrying about OKpay being in teh middle.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on October 04, 2015, 08:03:58 PM
Update: We are making progress every day towards a functional B&C Exchange. For those new to the B&C Exchange project, visit https://bcexchange.org to find all the latest downloads and to view our source code.  If you are interested in owning a part of B&C Exchange, you are able to trade BlockShares on https://CCEDK.com.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: PesiHUN on October 04, 2015, 10:17:33 PM
How can i get bks? can i mine it somehow?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on October 05, 2015, 03:54:18 AM
How can i get bks? can i mine it somehow?

All BlockShares have already been distributed to initial investors and they are not able to be mined. At this point in time the primary method to acquire BlockShares is to purchase them on an exchange like CCEDK.com or to purchase them privately from an existing BlockShareholder.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on October 05, 2015, 04:28:35 PM
I'm happy to be able to announce that glv (glv2 on GitHub) has joined the B&C Exchange development team. He has done excellent work in the Peercoin and Peerunity code repositories, so there is no doubt about his technical qualifications for the tasks at hand. He has already worked successfully and efficiently with the team on other projects, so I'm confident this is an important win for B&C Exchange.

Please welcome glv to the team with me. I'm excited about the increase in development speed he will bring to the project!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on October 05, 2015, 04:39:42 PM
I'm happy to be able to announce that glv (glv2 on GitHub) has joined the B&C Exchange development team. He has done excellent work in the Peercoin

https://github.com/glv2
Indeed a lot of contributions to peercoin.
As a shareholder of B&C, I hope it will accelerate drastically its development for the world has never needed that urgently a decentralized exchange...
Welcome glv2.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: luffy on October 05, 2015, 04:50:53 PM
welcome glv to our B&C world :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on October 09, 2015, 08:46:56 AM
How would compare the decentralization of the rating system of B&C Exchange with this: https://blog.openbazaar.org/decentralized-reputation-in-openbazaar/ ?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BAYproviser on October 09, 2015, 08:05:10 PM
BKS pairs on http://ln.is/www.ccedk.com/OpVSa … are being flipped today! All open orders are cancelled. Pls redo. Thanks for your help.

whats with ccedk I have order still showing and can not cancel them I get page errors



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on October 10, 2015, 02:42:34 AM
BKS pairs on [...] … are being flipped today! All open orders are cancelled. Pls redo. Thanks for your help.

whats with ccedk I have order still showing and can not cancel them I get page errors


Traders who wish to purchase or sell BlockShares should only access CCEDK through the link https://ccedk.com. The BKS trading pair flip happened over a month ago.

@BAYproviser We would recommend changing your password on CCEDK and emailing their support desk for assistance.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on October 13, 2015, 12:41:41 PM
Would it be possible to have some updates on the roadmap and milestones along with when we can expect to have those milestones completed?
Tks


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on October 17, 2015, 02:39:50 PM
Why doesn't B&C Exchange have a Facebook page? I went to add it to my profile and noticed it was missing and not on the main website. At least with Peercoin, our Facebook account allows me to type out longer news updates to followers that would be impossible on Twitter, due to the character count limit. I noticed that Nu doesn't take advantage of this and only allows their tweets to be shown on their Facebook page. The lack of character count limit allows for better communication with shareholders and the community.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on October 18, 2015, 05:30:33 AM
Would it be possible to have some updates on the roadmap and milestones along with when we can expect to have those milestones completed?
Tks

Jordan Lee and the development team have been hard at work on B&C Exchange and don't always find time to surface for updates. You can track development in our open-source repository here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/src.

We will always make updates as we approach major development milestones.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on October 18, 2015, 05:33:49 AM
Why doesn't B&C Exchange have a Facebook page? I went to add it to my profile and noticed it was missing and not on the main website. At least with Peercoin, our Facebook account allows me to type out longer news updates to followers that would be impossible on Twitter, due to the character count limit. I noticed that Nu doesn't take advantage of this and only allows their tweets to be shown on their Facebook page. The lack of character count limit allows for better communication with shareholders and the community.

Anyone can make a B&C Exchange Facebook page if they wish and we encourage them to do so. Our primary channel of communication will be on Bitcointalk and our website, and later a dedicated forum.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on October 19, 2015, 06:58:03 PM
Jordan Lee and the development team have been hard at work on B&C Exchange and don't always find time to surface for updates. You can track development in our open-source repository here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/src.

We will always make updates as we approach major development milestones.

What do I overlook?

https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/pull-requests/ contains exactly one pull request in the last 5 weeks - and that one is still open.
https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/branches/compare/4.0-stable%0Dmaster#commits doesn't show more activity.
https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/issues?status=new&status=open contains two issues in the last 5 weeks that deal with seed updates and one issue to "Fix upnp vulnerability"



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on October 20, 2015, 03:14:12 AM
Jordan Lee and the development team have been hard at work on B&C Exchange and don't always find time to surface for updates. You can track development in our open-source repository here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/src.

We will always make updates as we approach major development milestones.

What do I overlook?

https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/pull-requests/ contains exactly one pull request in the last 5 weeks - and that one is still open.



Indeed not much activity over the past 5 weeks. Are developers (and Jordan Lee) working on some code that have yet to be pushed to the repo?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on October 20, 2015, 03:21:55 AM
B&C Exchange client version 4.0 is now code complete, although that code has not yet been merged into the master branch of the BCExchange repository which masterOfDisaster was observing. We will begin testing shortly. Version 4.0  includes complete implementations of all voting features needed for the exchange and a fully functional reputation voting system. That is major progress. I estimate we are 35% code complete at this point.

sigmike has spent the last month on Nu version 2.1, which is also now code complete and partially tested. So there are no contributions from sigmike in the last month on B&C Exchange. I have mentioned in posts in the past about how the Nu and B&C team are shared resources. He is just turning his attention to B&C Exchange again, now that Nu 2.1 is code complete.

About a month ago I began recruiting an additional developer for B&C Exchange. Obviously, such a vacancy means progress is not occurring at the optimal speed. However, it also implies the pace will increase once the position is filled. That position was recently filled by glv, and he has just completed his first successful set of tasks, or pull request.

So, most of the progress that has been made was understandably overlooked by masterOfDisaster. Additionally, today we have glv and sigmike focusing on B&C Exchange where over most of the last month they weren't working on it because glv just joined the project days ago and sigmike was working on Nu 2.1.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on October 20, 2015, 03:24:51 AM
B&C Exchange client version 4.0 is now code complete, although that code has not yet been merged into the master branch of the BCExchange repository which masterOfDisaster was observing. We will begin testing shortly. Version 4.0  includes complete implementations of all voting features needed for the exchange and a fully functional reputation voting system. That is major progress. I estimate we are 35% code complete at this point.

sigmike has spent the last month on Nu version 2.1, which is also now code complete and partially tested. So there are no contributions from sigmike in the last month on B&C Exchange. I have mentioned in posts in the past about how the Nu and B&C team are shared resources. He is just turning his attention to B&C Exchange again, now that Nu 2.1 is code complete.

About a month ago I began recruiting an additional developer for B&C Exchange. Obviously, such a vacancy means progress is not occurring at the optimal speed. However, it also implies the pace will increase once the position is filled. That position was recently filled by glv, and he has just completed his first successful set of tasks, or pull request.

So, most of the progress that has been made was understandably overlooked by masterOfDisaster. Additionally, today we have glv and sigmike focusing on B&C Exchange where over most of the last month they weren't working on it because glv just joined the project days ago and sigmike was working on Nu 2.1.

Tks for your update. There is indeed much progress behind the scene.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on October 20, 2015, 06:40:49 AM
B&C Exchange client version 4.0 is now code complete, [...]

sigmike has spent the last month on Nu version 2.1, which is also now code complete and partially tested. So there are no contributions from sigmike in the last month on B&C Exchange. [...]

So, most of the progress that has been made was understandably overlooked by masterOfDisaster. Additionally, today we have glv and sigmike focusing on B&C Exchange where over most of the last month they weren't working on it because glv just joined the project days ago and sigmike was working on Nu 2.1.

Thank you for the detailed update about what happened (partially) behind the scenes!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: siameze on October 20, 2015, 12:17:44 PM
How can i get bks? can i mine it somehow?

All BlockShares have already been distributed to initial investors and they are not able to be mined. At this point in time the primary method to acquire BlockShares is to purchase them on an exchange like CCEDK.com or to purchase them privately from an existing BlockShareholder.


I don't currently have an account with CCEDK but I am interested in buying some BlockShares. Could someone post a direct link to this market on CCEDK or provide some information on otc vendors ? Any help is appreciated, thanks.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on October 20, 2015, 05:39:11 PM
I don't currently have an account with CCEDK but I am interested in buying some BlockShares. Could someone post a direct link to this market on CCEDK or provide some information on otc vendors ? Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Hi!
please have a look here:
https://www.ccedk.com/bks-nbt


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on October 21, 2015, 01:43:37 AM
I don't currently have an account with CCEDK but I am interested in buying some BlockShares. Could someone post a direct link to this market on CCEDK or provide some information on otc vendors ? Any help is appreciated, thanks.

CCEDK is currently the only exchange that offers a BlockShares market, so thank you masterofdisaster for linking to it. We are not aware of any dedicated OTC channels, but there are users like this one selling BKS off-exchange: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/ccedk-deposits-dont-work-are-insanely-slow/2912/13.

TomJoad is a team member of ours who is willing to do escrow for those off-exchange purchases. He has completed a few trades publicly already like this one: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/got-unwanted-blockshares-due-to-holding-nushares-sell-them/2477/48.

We will do our best to help users acquire BlockShares in these early days. We realize that some users prefer not using centralized exchanges and so TomJoad can assist with escrow with private purchases.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: siameze on October 21, 2015, 09:24:01 PM
I don't currently have an account with CCEDK but I am interested in buying some BlockShares. Could someone post a direct link to this market on CCEDK or provide some information on otc vendors ? Any help is appreciated, thanks.

CCEDK is currently the only exchange that offers a BlockShares market, so thank you masterofdisaster for linking to it. We are not aware of any dedicated OTC channels, but there are users like this one selling BKS off-exchange: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/ccedk-deposits-dont-work-are-insanely-slow/2912/13.

TomJoad is a team member of ours who is willing to do escrow for those off-exchange purchases. He has completed a few trades publicly already like this one: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/got-unwanted-blockshares-due-to-holding-nushares-sell-them/2477/48.

We will do our best to help users acquire BlockShares in these early days. We realize that some users prefer not using centralized exchanges and so TomJoad can assist with escrow with private purchases.


Yes I have heard good things about TomJoad, I will attempt to contact him later this week. I do appreciate the community offering private purchases, there are very few exchanges I find trustworthy at this point so having a p2p option will be excellent.

Please feel free to link me to any relevant information on BlockShares, I still have quite a bit of research to do in order to get up to speed 100%.

Thanks!  :-[


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on October 21, 2015, 11:29:16 PM
Yes I have heard good things about TomJoad, I will attempt to contact him later this week. I do appreciate the community offering private purchases, there are very few exchanges I find trustworthy at this point so having a p2p option will be excellent.

Please feel free to link me to any relevant information on BlockShares, I still have quite a bit of research to do in order to get up to speed 100%.

Thanks!  :-[

The best resources will be this bitcointalk thread and https://bcexchange.org. Our website has links to the design document and source code repository, as well as our wallet client and block explorer.

We encourage you to ask any questions you have in this thread too, if only because many others likely have the same questions. We don't mind answering old questions either - we understand it is often easier to ask a quick question rather than cycle through 30+ pages of bitcointalk history for an answer.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: crazyivan on November 03, 2015, 07:49:48 AM
Could you pls sum up your dividend paying strategy? Are there any data about frequency, potential ROI or anything or you are still in pre-launch phase?

Thx


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on November 03, 2015, 06:37:33 PM
The trading functionality is not yet available, but currently under development.
If that is what you mean by
still in pre-launch phase?
the answer is "yes".
Development will speed up, because another developer was hired recently (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg12608701#msg12608701).

Regarding dividends it's quite simple. Using BCE (Blocks & Chains Exchange) will require BlockCredits (BKC). Those are being created (by BCE) and sold (to customers).
Revenue from selling BKC (if not already BTC) will be exchanged to BTC and distributed to BlockShares (BKS) holders.
That's it - more or less.

The frequency and amount of dividends depends on the trade that is done on BCE.

Anything from total failure (no dividends, investment lost) to a decentralized exchange going viral and becoming _the_ exchange of crypto tokens (with vast amounts of dividends and skyrocketing BKS rate) seems to be possible.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on November 04, 2015, 11:08:08 PM
So is the B&C exchange dead before it even starts?

Some serious competition dont you think  :o

http://bitcointalkboard24.******.com/

phishing


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: wzhang8888 on November 08, 2015, 04:52:56 PM
Selling BlockShares, PM me with offers. For those who dont want to use CCEDK.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on November 11, 2015, 04:25:27 AM
Beginning next week we will be sponsoring a YouTube cryptocurrency news show called The Daily Decrypt (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqNCLd2r19wpWWQE6yDLOOQ). Expect to see us on two shows per week from November 17, 2015 until January 1, 2016!

Follow The Daily Decrypt on Twitter: @TheDailyDecrypt (https://twitter.com/thedailydecrypt)

http://i.imgur.com/umF5gG3.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on November 11, 2015, 05:20:33 AM
There is an immediate mandatory upgrade for all B&C Exchange users.

Downloads:

B&C Exchange 3.0.1 for Linux (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.1-linux-gitian.zip)

B&C Exchange 3.0.1 for Windows (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-3.0.1-win-gitian.zip)

OS X builds are coming very soon.

Changes:

B&C Exchange release 3.0.1 has an adapted implementation of BIP 0066 as its only change from the prior 3.0.0 release. This release fixes a consensus bug.

Visit https://bcexchange.org to get the latest download clients.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: favdesu on November 16, 2015, 10:17:27 PM
If I buy nushares now, what exactly do I get once this is operational?

Sorry if this was asked already


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on November 17, 2015, 12:08:08 AM
If I buy nushares now, what exactly do I get once this is operational?

Sorry if this was asked already

Dividends for being a nushareholder? Since BCExchange utilizes nubits the demand for nubits will increase. Higher demand for nubits is good for nushareholders.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BonTonPlease on November 17, 2015, 12:32:14 AM
If I buy nushares now, what exactly do I get once this is operational?

Sorry if this was asked already

Nubits will provide liquidity through offering NBT/XXX pairs on BCExchange. If BCExchange turns out to be successful, the increased demand in Nubits leads to revenue for the Nu network which is possessed by Nushareholders. If you want to directly benefit from BCExchange, you would need to purchase Blockshares (you may know that, just for the sake of completeness).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on November 20, 2015, 10:36:55 AM
If I buy nushares now, what exactly do I get once this is operational?

Sorry if this was asked already

Nubits will provide liquidity through offering NBT/XXX pairs on BCExchange. If BCExchange turns out to be successful, the increased demand in Nubits leads to revenue for the Nu network which is possessed by Nushareholders. If you want to directly benefit from BCExchange, you would need to purchase Blockshares (you may know that, just for the sake of completeness).

I very much hope that the websites offering access to the B&C Exchange (BCE) accounts either allow flipping the pairs, or the trading pairs are XXX/NBT, because it makes realizing the price easier!

This is slightly off-topic, but it has to do with the question "If I buy nushares now, what exactly do I get once this is operational?".
Nu is preparing the introduction of additional products (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights) (e.g. special drawing rights (SDR, XDR), aka a basket of currencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_drawing_rights)). Airlines often use XDR in their terms where compensation of lost baggage is defined.
I expect XDR (named X-NBT at Nu) will be listed on BCE.
Additional products of Nu increase both the utility of BCE and of Nu!
So Nu and BCE profit mutually from the success of each other!

Buying NSR or BKS is risky, the market liquidity is very low at the moment, but I think there's a big potential for these two DACs to take off.
This is no investment advice - merely my humble opinion!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yefet on November 22, 2015, 02:34:06 PM

1. NuShareholders

All NuShareholders who held NSR at the end of July 3 UTC are entitled to a proportional amount of BlockShares. Just like Peercoin dividends have been automatically distributed to NuShareholders, BlockShares have also been distributed as a dividend.

Users can redeem their BKS by downloading the B&C client and then selecting File > Import NuShares Wallet. An updated BKS total will then be displayed in the client. Minting begins at 18:00 UTC today (11 July)


Is there any use of "Import NuShares Wallet" now, when the distribution is over and I got my first NSR after the end of the distribution date? ???


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on November 22, 2015, 04:40:02 PM

1. NuShareholders

All NuShareholders who held NSR at the end of July 3 UTC are entitled to a proportional amount of BlockShares. Just like Peercoin dividends have been automatically distributed to NuShareholders, BlockShares have also been distributed as a dividend.

Users can redeem their BKS by downloading the B&C client and then selecting File > Import NuShares Wallet. An updated BKS total will then be displayed in the client. Minting begins at 18:00 UTC today (11 July)


Is there any use of "Import NuShares Wallet" now, when the distribution is over and I got my first NSR after the end of the distribution date? ???

No, you won't receive any BKS from that, because you had no NSR at the point of time when the BKS were distributed.
As an NSR holder, you can ought to contribute to the success of Nu!
Have a look at https://discuss.nubits.com/ - the people are friendly there :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yefet on November 22, 2015, 05:51:46 PM
I understand I won't receive any BKS! Let me put it simple: if it became absolutly useless, why it is still in the BKS wallet menu?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on November 22, 2015, 05:56:42 PM
I understand I won't receive any BKS! Let me put it simple: if it became absolutly useless, why it is still in the BKS wallet menu?

Because everybody who has an NSR wallet with UTXOs in it at the time of distribution can use this function, e.g. to create a fresh BKS wallet. It's not useless.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: favdesu on November 22, 2015, 06:06:52 PM
alright, so I don't get anything form nushares... but, you can already buy bc shares? is there a wallet? https://bcexchange.org/ this one?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on November 22, 2015, 09:20:35 PM
alright, so I don't get anything form nushares... but, you can already buy bc shares? is there a wallet? https://bcexchange.org/ this one?

I beg to differ.
This is by no means an investment advice, but NuShares (NSR) can profit from a successful B&C Exchange (BCE) in many ways.
One way is that it reduces the cost of providing liquidity, which increases the net revenue. And the increased demand for NBT is something Nu is going to profit from.
So there will be ways of getting something from holding NSR in case BCE is successful.
If you understand the BKS that were received by NSR holders as a kind of dividend, it's easy to realize why you had to hold NSR back then ;)

If you want to profit directly from BCE, you can buy BlockShares (BKS) at CCEDK (https://www.ccedk.com/bks-nbt and https://www.ccedk.com/bks-btc) or directly from BKS holders. I highly recommend escrow for the latter one. The NuBits forum (https://discuss.nubits.com/) is a place where you can look for BKS sellers as well as here - some NSR holders did receive BKS!
The NuBits forum user tomjoad has escrowed BKS transactions as far as I know. Please check yourself for an escrow you trust.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sigmike on November 26, 2015, 07:30:11 PM
Version 4.0 is almost ready. It took more time than expected because asset voting has important consequences on the design of the trading protocol that will be implemented in the next release. We had to adjust the design a few times. But it has been finalized and we just need a last review of the pull request before we can finalize 4.0.

This release will enable reputation and asset voting. So shareholders will be able to start deciding which assets will be initially tradable and who will be the first reputed signers.

While asset voting was finalized we also started writing detailed specs of the trading protocol that will be implemented in version 5.0.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Daology on December 03, 2015, 04:50:04 PM
We would like to let everyone in this thread know that Daology.org (https://daology.org) has support for B&C Exchange.

Daology is a content creation platform where anyone can create articles and proposals to help drive awareness and change for supported distributed organizations.

We have native support for B&C motions. When you create a motion proposal for B&C on Daology the voting hash will be automatically generated for you.

Create impressive content using Markdown and KaTeX. You can easily create content using our Markdown editor to simplify formatting of articles and proposals. For those of you who are more mathematically inclined we support KaTeX rendering in the content as well. Tags, status, and custom proposal data are all there to help you organize and find content.

We want to help distributed organizations govern more effectively. What you see on Daology today is a small set of the tools that will be available to organizations. Stay in touch to hear about feature releases (https://github.com/Daology/Support/wiki/Release-History)

We look forward to watching the continued development of B&C Exchange, and we hope Daology will play a key role in organizing the ideas and proposals to help it meet the organizations goals.

There are many ways to contact us if you need help or have a comment.

You can send us a direct email at support@daology.org (http://mailto:support@daology.org)
Use our Gitte[Suspicious link removed] /Daology/Support]support chatroom (https://gitte[Suspicious link removed)
Send us a message on Twitter (https://twitter.com/daologyapp)
Submit feature requests or bug reports through our team’s issue tracker (https://github.com/Daology/Support/issues)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on December 04, 2015, 04:23:12 AM
I'm curious about something loosely based on this project:

Is Nubot gonna have an important role inside this project (B&C Exchange) the same way it does today as a support liquidity providing tool to Nubits (liquidity) pools?

Will there be any chance to profit from B&C Exchange the way people do running Nubot on top of those pools nowadays?

P.s. I'm (almost) sure that if B&C Exchange prevails Nubits will bump to top 10 market cap.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on December 04, 2015, 11:22:16 AM
I wonder what chance the centralized altcoin exchanges have after B&C goes live? Who would want to use them any more?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yefet on December 04, 2015, 04:16:45 PM
Just take a glance @GeminiDotCom and you see the answer ;-)
I wonder what chance the centralized altcoin exchanges have after B&C goes live? Who would want to use them any more?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: jonnylatte on December 05, 2015, 08:59:19 PM
If you implement something like the lightning network you could trade as fast as a centralized exchange:

https://youtu.be/8zVzw912wPo


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on December 10, 2015, 02:01:55 AM
While reading the white paper a doubt emerged about market makers / liquidity providers:

(Inside B&C Exchange protocol/structure) Are ONLY core clients (that download the FULL blockchain) gonna be supported for liquidity providers?

OR

Are Simplified Payment Verification Clients (e.g. Electrum) gonna be supported too?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on December 10, 2015, 12:55:30 PM
While reading the white paper a doubt emerged about market makers / liquidity providers:

(Inside B&C Exchange protocol/structure) Are ONLY core clients (that download the FULL blockchain) gonna be supported for liquidity providers?

OR

Are Simplified Payment Verification Clients (e.g. Electrum) gonna be supported too?

I'm just an onlooker, but I wouldn't be able to tell why SPV clients wouldn't be accepted.
That might be related to the fact that I don't know how SPV clients work.
Are they capable of multisignature transactions (decode, create)?
The question whether it would be acceptable to trust central servers needs to be answered as well.

The benefit of using SPV clients is that the requirements for the hardware to run a node of a reputed signer is significantly reduced.
This might outweigh the drawbacks partly or in full, because it might allow running such a node in a secure environment and not as virtual server on a cloud server infrastructure that poses threats to the integrity of the private keys.
SPV seems to work badly with PoS coins, but they often have quite small blockchains.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on December 11, 2015, 04:40:26 AM
While reading the white paper a doubt emerged about market makers / liquidity providers:

(Inside B&C Exchange protocol/structure) Are ONLY core clients (that download the FULL blockchain) gonna be supported for liquidity providers?

OR

Are Simplified Payment Verification Clients (e.g. Electrum) gonna be supported too?

What has been mentioned is that you would be able to export your bitcoin private key to a light weight bitcoin client for dividends distribution.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: kennyP on December 12, 2015, 06:38:50 AM
How does staking work with BKS? I've had BKS in my wallet since 20 July but my stake amount is always zero (balance is correct though).
What is the stake % rate per year?
Do you need to keep the wallet unlocked to stake?
When i check coin control it shows "0" for coin days, and every block is exactly "1", what's going on here?



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on December 12, 2015, 06:59:52 PM
How does staking work with BKS? I've had BKS in my wallet since 20 July but my stake amount is always zero (balance is correct though).
What is the stake % rate per year?
Do you need to keep the wallet unlocked to stake?
When i check coin control it shows "0" for coin days, and every block is exactly "1", what's going on here?




You need to keep your client open and unlocked for minting. You can find the unlock button under 'Settings'.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on December 12, 2015, 09:29:18 PM
How does staking work with BKS? I've had BKS in my wallet since 20 July but my stake amount is always zero (balance is correct though).
What is the stake % rate per year?
It depends on the ratio of BKS that mint vs. BKS that don't mint. The block spacing is targeted at 1 minute.
If more BKS mint, the difficulty is higher and your reward in % over time is smaller than in times when fewer BKS mint.
There's no fixed % per year.

Do you need to keep the wallet unlocked to stake?
Like @Yurizhai already said: switch the wallet application to "BlockShares" mode and unlock it for minting (via menu "settings -> Unlock Wallet for Minting Only" or debug window:"walletpassphrase [yourPassphraseGoesHere] 99999999 true).
The wallet will remain unlocked until you lock it or close it.
Minting is only possible with an open and unlocked wallet and a working network connection (to the B&CExchange network).

When i check coin control it shows "0" for coin days, and every block is exactly "1", what's going on here?
I don't know about the "0" for coin days, but each unspent transaction output is exactly "1", because you never minted (which would have increased the UTXO value) and the default setting of the wallet is to split the funds into UTXOs of size 1 to increase the minting probability.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: bhokor on December 19, 2015, 12:54:36 AM
i know it is a hard question but i have to do it

Some ETA for decentralized exchange official launch? i know probbaly no data for it but

will be it in 2016?

really we need it for go further in altcoin development

thanks in advance


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: allwelder on December 24, 2015, 06:31:14 AM
It's better to add multilanguage.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: qq3326039814 on December 29, 2015, 02:46:14 AM
A month later, what is the development of news?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on December 30, 2015, 01:36:31 AM
When launch time comes, which cryptocoins will be available for trading?

My personal "hint" for the first 7 candidates: Bitcoin (obviously); BlockShares (obviously); Litecoin (the second mkt cap and liquidity); Nubits (Nu echosystem); Nushares (Nu echosystem); Peercoin (¿Nu system's dividends?); Dash (or Monero, whichever has higher mkt cap and liquidity - for anonymity concerns).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on December 30, 2015, 02:23:37 AM
When launch time comes, which cryptocoins will be available for trading?

My personal "hint" for the first 7 candidates: Bitcoin (obviously); BlockShares (obviously); Litecoin (the second mkt cap and liquidity); Nubits (Nu echosystem); Nushares (Nu echosystem); Peercoin (ΏNu system's dividends?); Dash (or Monero, whichever has higher mkt cap and liquidity - for anonimity concerns).

According to the last update, 4.0 will allow shareholders to decide which assets will be initIally tradable.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on December 30, 2015, 02:52:53 AM
"Democracy" as its best, huh?  ;D


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on January 07, 2016, 07:19:47 PM
Version 4.0 is almost ready. It took more time than expected because asset voting has important consequences on the design of the trading protocol that will be implemented in the next release. We had to adjust the design a few times. But it has been finalized and we just need a last review of the pull request before we can finalize 4.0.

This release will enable reputation and asset voting. So shareholders will be able to start deciding which assets will be initially tradable and who will be the first reputed signers.

While asset voting was finalized we also started writing detailed specs of the trading protocol that will be implemented in version 5.0.

Been radio silence for  awhile now..


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: yohanip on January 10, 2016, 08:49:29 AM
About these decentralized exchange concept..
please add a way to simplifies changing the currencies to fiat.. something like a built in localbitcoin..


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on January 16, 2016, 04:07:19 AM
NuBits and B&C Exchange share the same team. This gives B&C the advantage of having people work on it that have worked with the code base for a year or two in most cases. It has the disadvantage of meaning that when the team is focused on NuBit development, B&C Exchange development necessarily gets less attention and work.

The NuBit 2.1 release has been a major undertaking. We thought we were nearly done with it a month ago, but testing revealed some important performance issues that were difficult and time consuming to track down and remedy. The NuBits 2.1 release is very close to being ready for beta release. As a result, the team is once again turning its focus to B&C Exchange. The B&C Exchange 4.0 release will receive additional testing in the coming days. Over the course of the last month, glv has continued to make progress on developing the exchange messages (to be released after 4.0).

Sigmike and I are discussing a couple ways we could bring additional developers to the project to speed implementation. While I regard the pace of development as a disappointment to date, we have effectively conserved our funding and I am more convinced that B&C Exchange has a viable design than I was six months ago. Progress has taken longer than expected due to lower availability of developers than was expected, but the project is still very viable and is in fact moving forward.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: irritant on January 16, 2016, 12:32:46 PM
nobody can predict the future


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on January 16, 2016, 11:25:19 PM
NuBits and B&C Exchange share the same team. This gives B&C the advantage of having people work on it that have worked with the code base for a year or two in most cases. It has the disadvantage of meaning that when the team is focused on NuBit development, B&C Exchange development necessarily gets less attention and work.

The NuBit 2.1 release has been a major undertaking. We thought we were nearly done with it a month ago, but testing revealed some important performance issues that were difficult and time consuming to track down and remedy. The NuBits 2.1 release is very close to being ready for beta release. As a result, the team is once again turning its focus to B&C Exchange. The B&C Exchange 4.0 release will receive additional testing in the coming days. Over the course of the last month, glv has continued to make progress on developing the exchange messages (to be released after 4.0).

Sigmike and I are discussing a couple ways we could bring additional developers to the project to speed implementation. While I regard the pace of development as a disappointment to date, we have effectively conserved our funding and I am more convinced that B&C Exchange has a viable design than I was six months ago. Progress has taken longer than expected due to lower availability of developers than was expected, but the project is still very viable and is in fact moving forward.

Tks for the update, Jordan.
I am wondering: what about the contribution from erasmospunk ?
If you need more developers, maybe we should advertise it on social networks?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: bruter on January 17, 2016, 12:22:46 AM
Sigmike and I are discussing a couple ways we could bring additional developers to the project to speed implementation. While I regard the pace of development as a disappointment to date, we have effectively conserved our funding and I am more convinced that B&C Exchange has a viable design than I was six months ago. Progress has taken longer than expected due to lower availability of developers than was expected, but the project is still very viable and is in fact moving forward.

Thank you, JordanLee.
Have you tried to contact with @creon?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on January 17, 2016, 03:42:14 AM
Thanks for the update Jordan. I think it's also important to mention that any performance updates added to Nu 2.1 will ultimately be incorporated into B&C as well, so this outside development of Nu will positively benefit both projects in the end. So you could probably get away with saying that you were working on B&C improvements, even though they will first be incorporated into Nu.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on January 19, 2016, 01:27:36 AM
Are we going to see B&CExchange in operation in 2016?
--------------------
Perhaps in very late 2016, because we have only three part time developers.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NuCoinGame on January 19, 2016, 05:41:09 PM
Just to quickly follow up on Jordan's words regarding the development pace. Things slowed down a bit late last year because of the holidays, traveling, and new year administrative tasks. Things should be picking up from here on out. 4.0 development/testing is in full swing. Once everything is cleared BlockShares owners will be able to start voting on the available assets for trading and reputed signers.

Year end/start is a very busy time for people, and Nu had a similar development slump around the same time last year. I'll try to produce some regular updates regarding testing and development from here on out as well.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BAYproviser on January 29, 2016, 11:55:26 PM
some one beat you guys on a decentralized BKS https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/OPEN.BKS_BTC use chrome to visit iexplore as issues connection too https://bitshares.openledger.info

https://i.imgsafe.org/c0f3ba1.jpg


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on February 01, 2016, 01:16:37 PM
some one beat you guys on a decentralized BKS https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/OPEN.BKS_BTC

These are completely fraudulent, or counterfeit, Blockshares. And not very convincing counterfeits at that. They contain none of the properties of Blockshares except that they have the label "BKS". You can't mint with them. You can't vote with them. They are not even remotely connected to the B&C Exchange network. And you can't sell them at any exchange trading Blockshares. So don't buy them.

This is a scam.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: complexring on February 02, 2016, 02:35:17 AM
Is that a baseless accusation?  ???  It looks like they are User Issued Assets (UIAs) on the BitShares platform.  Perhaps they are backed by actual BKS ?  Did you bother to contact the issuer of that BitShares asset ?  I agree, that even if they are backed by actual BKS, that the holder of these would not be capable of voting on your platform.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on February 03, 2016, 02:52:20 AM
Talking about Bitshares, which projects are the main BCE's "competitors"?

Dunno if that info is already available inside BCE's documentation but I only know about:

OpenLedger (Bitshares)

And

Bitsquare (independent)

Everything else I've heard of are only (very embryonic) "decex" aborted attempts or (yet to prove) sidechains projects...

P.s. it's important to know what they're doing and "where" (in terms of development pace) they are.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CB_project on February 03, 2016, 10:40:14 AM
some one beat you guys on a decentralized BKS https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/OPEN.BKS_BTC use chrome to visit iexplore as issues connection too https://bitshares.openledger.info

I think the openledger is not a decentralized exchange like B&C


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CB_project on February 03, 2016, 10:47:48 AM
Is that a baseless accusation?  ???  It looks like they are User Issued Assets (UIAs) on the BitShares platform.  Perhaps they are backed by actual BKS ?  Did you bother to contact the issuer of that BitShares asset ?  I agree, that even if they are backed by actual BKS, that the holder of these would not be capable of voting on your platform.



I don't think so. Openledger shows bitshare assets backed with BTS


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CB_project on February 03, 2016, 10:55:52 AM
We have added several new features to our B&C Exchange block explorer. (https://bcblockexplorer.com)

Status (https://bcblockexplorer.com/status): This page shows many different network status metrics. Several options, including market cap and market price of BKS and BKC, won't be available until we are listed on coinmarketcap.com.

Of particular interest is our Wealthiest BlockShares Addresses (https://bcblockexplorer.com/status/richListBKS) listing. This page lists the top BKS addresses by share ownership.

Charts (https://bcblockexplorer.com/charts/size): This page shows several charts of network statistics, including average block sizes, average network difficulty, average number of blocks, average number of transactions, and more.

Our block explorer is nearing complete basic functionality with these updates. Please let us know if you encounter errors or incorrect data while using the explorer.

I am interessted in blockchain and the public ledger
By the way - nice blockexplorer. Is the source code available?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on February 06, 2016, 01:54:35 AM
By the way - nice blockexplorer. Is the source code available?

The NuBits explorer at https://blockexplorer.nu/ has been open sourced. The B&C Exchange explorer is a fork of that, I believe. Here is the NuBit explorer source code:

https://github.com/JetJet13/NuExplorerOS


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CB_project on February 07, 2016, 11:35:04 AM
By the way - nice blockexplorer. Is the source code available?

The NuBits explorer at https://blockexplorer.nu/ has been open sourced. The B&C Exchange explorer is a fork of that, I believe. Here is the NuBit explorer source code:

https://github.com/JetJet13/NuExplorerOS

Thank you!
this project is the future of trading - the future of all exchanges.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BTCBinary on February 08, 2016, 01:35:13 AM
The whole project looks very interesting.
In fact, Nowadays being able to set up a fully functional and secure decentralized exchange is like hiting the golden pot.
Now, tell me how are you trying to deal with the confirmations times for the whole transactions that will be made while trading?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CCEDKaps on February 11, 2016, 12:00:08 AM
From today Openledger is listed as exchange on CMC an will be listed on various other charts and site in coming weeks.** On this platform remember always to do backup on external hard disc.**

And I suggest you have a good look at below videos on use case as well as tutorial prior to signing up, it will help a great deal in making the first expereince so much better!

I think it could be interesting for you to have an easy access to trade in and out of Ethereum with Blockshares, nothing anybody else does, and now in automode, instead of the present manual handling on CCEDK.

I have created  following pairs on Openledger, which means they are active right now, but with little liquidity since only created:

BKS/BTC    https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=openledger#/market/OPEN.BKS_OPEN.BTC  (https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=openledger#/market/OPEN.BKS_OPEN.BTC)
NBT/BTC   https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=openledger#/market/OPEN.NBT_OPEN.BTC
ETH/BTC    https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=openledger#/market/OPEN.ETH_OPEN.BTC (https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=openledger#/market/OPEN.ETH_OPEN.BTC)
ETH/NBT   https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=openledger#/market/OPEN.ETH_OPEN.NBT

BKS on OpenLedger is working on Openledger similar to btc, nbt etc on any other exchange and is therefore not decentralized  and you can therefore not use it on OpenLedger for voting but woul need to withdraw and place it in you Blockshares wallet similar to what you would do with NuShares and NuBits. Openledger is an alternative exchange when it comes to btc and altcoins. Only bts and martcoins like bitassets are decentralized.

**Welcome bonus 10 OBITS signing up with below link**

All accounts created from today february 10th untill Fberuary 20th on the base of following link:

https://openledger.info/?r=blockshares to access webwallet **via landing page **

or

following link: https://bitshares.openledger.info/?r=blockshares **to access directly to webwallet**

**are given a welcome bonus of 10 OBITS.**

If you dont know OBITS more info on  site: www.obits.io

You can create any trading pairs you wish by chnaging for instance OPEN:BTC to OPEN.DOGE and market will be active the minute you start building a sell or buy wall.

Dont let you be fooled of the OPEN.XXX an think this is just plain asset, it is the same way any other exchange is handling the incoming and outgoing crypto, meaning it is placed in cold and hot wallets, the only and perhaps very interesting detail is that on Openledger you are able to follow what amounts are deposited an withdrawn all the time, either by looking directly at the hot wallet called openledger-wallet or by checking oit the activities via the designated explodr called cryptofresh. I give you here the direct link to the wallet, but much more to find here:

http://cryptofresh.com/u/openledger-wallet

It means that right now Openledger as exchange is showing you constant update on what is available in total supply, and you are able to deposit via generated adresses or withdraw directly to the address of your choice all in automode. Just like any other centralized exchange and coming up within next month or maximum two any cold wallets as well as hot for that matter will be handled on the based of a sort of multisignature account, and it could be possible to discuss for instance certain memners of this community to be involved in this part come bigger cold wallet amounts etc like your tier 4 an 3 amounts for instance if I remember correctly.

Dont know about OpenLedger yet?

Have a look at these great videos already made for you to know it better:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZHkjzM5Vp5RH0H_XGBtS0g

**OpenLedger - Smart Trading Decentralized**

This for you information. I thought it might interest you, so I hope it does.

PS: I would love to have you guys together with NuBits an article in Forbes similar to the one we did this week with Emercoin, but it needs your feedback and co operation in making this happen, and I feel it could be a win win situation for both parties.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogeraitken/2016/02/08/microsoft-partner-emercoin-joins-cryptos-openledger-to-deliver-robust-blockchain-services/#2fb91bd54407

Yours sincerely

Ronny Boesing
CCEDK


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CCEDKaps on February 12, 2016, 11:03:30 PM
some one beat you guys on a decentralized BKS https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/market/OPEN.BKS_BTC

These are completely fraudulent, or counterfeit, Blockshares. And not very convincing counterfeits at that. They contain none of the properties of Blockshares except that they have the label "BKS". You can't mint with them. You can't vote with them. They are not even remotely connected to the B&C Exchange network. And you can't sell them at any exchange trading Blockshares. So don't buy them.

This is a scam.

I think it's a bit harsh to call an asset on a decentralized exchange a scam.

The BKS on the DEX is called OPEN.BKS to show that it is in fact an asset based on an IOU of the real BKS located in a hot or cold wallet. You cannot vote with the asset, you could however vote with the real BKS on the cold if that was the intention which it is not. In case you have OPEN.BKS on your account on OpenLedger, all you need to withdraw to th real thing on your own wallet or other is to enter the address of destination, amount you wish to send provided you have this amount ofcourse, and gone it is, and soon after on your own wallet, or on account on CCEDK exchange could be another example.

BKS is available on the exchange OpenLedger in the same way as any other crypto or NBT and NSR on any exchanges like Poloniex, Bittrex etc., the only diffrence is that on OpenLedger you are actually able to see how many BKS, NSR or NBT is held in the cold wallet of the platform, something which other exchanges do not offer.

It is not yet cold wallets with multisig accounts but expected to be added in next few months thus securing the funds the maximum as the idea would be to have someone trusted by the currency in question to be in possession of one of the keys to access and accept any withdrawals.

OpenLedger is the first exchange offering BKS in automode both deposit an withdrawal, as CCEDK is only able to do it all manually so instead of calling it a scam, why not call it a great achievement and appreciate the option of an easy access as well as the possibility of trading of a currency expected a great future?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on February 15, 2016, 11:16:13 PM
Now, tell me how are you trying to deal with the confirmations times for the whole transactions that will be made while trading?

Shareholders will be able to set the number of confirmations required for each blockchain by voting with their stake. The number of confirmations required applies to orders placed. The blockchain has already famously solved the double spend problem. We will use the same approach to detect and invalidate double orders.

On a separate note, we have added woodstockmerkle as a developer to the NuBits/B&C Exchange team. He will be helping us 5 to 10 hours a week. While his first assignment is working on a NuBit release, having him do so will increase sigmike's availability to work on B&C Exchange.

We are also looking for another developer. Details about the opening are available here (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/b-c-exchange-is-hiring-a-c-developer/3525).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CB_project on February 21, 2016, 07:47:08 PM
there are 187,190.226 Blockshares available

but in the richlist: https://bcblockexplorer.com/status/richListBKS

I can see, that one address hold more than 490,000.00 BKS - a mistake?

I am confused


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on February 22, 2016, 04:40:39 AM
We have a new release candidate for B&C Exchange 4.0 that will enter testing tomorrow:

https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.0-RC2-win-gitian.zip
https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.0-RC2-linux-gitian.zip

4.0 will allow shareholders to vote for signers and allows signers to prepare for trading operations in the following production release.

CoinGame will keep us informed in the coming days regarding what he finds while testing.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on February 22, 2016, 04:48:16 AM
there are 187,190.226 Blockshares available

but in the richlist: https://bcblockexplorer.com/status/richListBKS

I can see, that one address hold more than 490,000.00 BKS - a mistake?

I am confused

I just asked the block explorer developer, Johny, about this. But yes, it is safe to say that it is an error in the block explorer display.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CB_project on February 22, 2016, 06:17:51 AM
there are 187,190.226 Blockshares available

but in the richlist: https://bcblockexplorer.com/status/richListBKS

I can see, that one address hold more than 490,000.00 BKS - a mistake?

I am confused

I just asked the block explorer developer, Johny, about this. But yes, it is safe to say that it is an error in the block explorer display.

thanks for the answer.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on February 22, 2016, 02:00:07 PM
We have a new release candidate for B&C Exchange 4.0 that will enter testing tomorrow:

https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.0-RC2-win-gitian.zip
https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.0-RC2-linux-gitian.zip

4.0 will allow shareholders to vote for signers and allows signers to prepare for trading operations in the following production release.

CoinGame will keep us informed in the coming days regarding what he finds while testing.

Nice and reassuring to see some substantial progress.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on February 22, 2016, 05:53:10 PM
B&C Exchange is hiring two full time C++ developers (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/b-c-exchange-is-hiring-a-c-developer/3525).

Progress has been slower than expected because developers (most of whom had agreed to work about half time) haven't put in the quantity of hours that were discussed when the project began. Fortunately, this means little funding has been consumed, so we get another chance without needing any additional funding. The best way to resolve the issue is to simply require full time developers, so they don't have any other work competing for their time and attention. Additionally, these two full time developers won't be working on the NuBit project at all. There has been a dynamic where the shared team for B&C Exchange and NuBits tends to put more time than expected on NuBits because it is a live and operational network, which means issues tend to seem more urgent than they do for the not yet operational B&C Exchange.

Previously, the strategy had been to use the same team members that had accomplished the amazing technical feats we see in the NuBits project. This approach hasn't worked. During NuBit development, we had a team of 5 or 6 people working full time. The NuBit budget experienced an 80% reduction in funding before B&C Exchange funding was successfully obtained. So, the team was mostly disbanded. Getting funding for B&C Exchange was not sufficient to pull the team back together for a second project.

With two full time developers, a full time QA resource, most of my attention going to my architect role, and a number of veteran part time developers, the project should be well positioned to be completed the middle of this year.

I am still very confident the design of B&C Exchange is practical and viable. Major progress has been made, particularly in the form of our 4.0 RC2 build, which contains a large percentage of the features needed in B&C Exchange. The change in direction toward new full time developers is likely to bring the core software to completion in a timely manner. While there is still a good chance we will be able to complete non-core infrastructure such as a web interface with our current budget, the chances appear lower than they did a number of months ago.

Much will hinge on the quality and devotion of the developers who have yet to be hired. Active shareholders should do their best to encourage excellent candidates to reach out to me.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on February 22, 2016, 09:39:06 PM
This is also important to note for anyone that is able to recruit these developers...

Quote from: Jordan Lee
We will pay 10% of whatever the developer makes in the first six months to anyone who introduces me to a developer we end up hiring as a consultant. I will ask all candidates how they heard about the job to ensure proper credit.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on February 24, 2016, 02:46:50 AM
So, B&C needs two full time developers to get things really moving. Is this to say that without them, progress is currently at an effective halt?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NuCoinGame on February 26, 2016, 12:27:46 PM
Progress is not at a halt and the project is still being worked on daily. The advantage of having two full time devs would significantly reduce the time to deliver on the project goals.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CB_project on February 27, 2016, 09:30:54 AM
Trading now available?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NuCoinGame on February 27, 2016, 11:49:00 AM
Trading is not yet available. 4.0 will support asset voting and reputed signer voting, which is the next release.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: piebeyb on February 27, 2016, 04:19:04 PM
just wanted to know how this works, at least I was on this thread for more information, cheers


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BadGhost on March 05, 2016, 09:59:40 AM
Do I understand correctly that by this project you are taking on all of the current exchanges? Meaning that you Will maybe deliver a decentralized exchange for everyone, which will create a multiple websites based on your protocol, however at the same time making all of the existing exchanges archaic.

That means that they should by the time lose all their profits? That is a bold move.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mhps on March 05, 2016, 01:08:38 PM
That means that they should by the time lose all their profits? That is a bold move.

It's bold. But centralized exchanges still are faster at executing transactions, by orders of magnitude in general, than decentralized ones. So there are places for both kind of exchanges.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on March 07, 2016, 04:58:36 PM
[...] centralized exchanges still are faster at executing transactions, by orders of magnitude in general, than decentralized ones. So there are places for both kind of exchanges.

I fully agree.
High frequency trading will by design be impossible with B&C Exchange - at least in the implementation that is currently being created.
I have no idea how to bring the speed of a decentralized exchange even close to a centralized exchange, but doubt that it's possible with the currently available tools.

This decentralized exchange is going to have other benefits than speed (just to name a few):

  • ability to trade native assets instead of proxy assets (in difference to other decentralized exchanges, same as centralized exchanges)
  • high level of security due to multisig with different possible levels (rarely (if ever!) found at centralized exchanges)
  • high level of availablity - all trades happen on blockchain and cost BKC; DDoS'ing the blockchain is possible, but very costly as BKC are required for it
  • highly flexible ways to access the "account": by wallet application on own computer or through websites, which offer access to the blockchain
  • leveraged/margin trading is basically possible
  • decentralized escrow services are within reach


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NuCoinGame on March 09, 2016, 05:37:06 PM
Hey everyone. The release for B&C 4.0 is right around the corner. We'd like to gather a small group of community testers to help us prior to making a full release. Preferably people who have BlockShares and have been actively minting.

If you're interested please send me a private message here, or reach out to me on twitter. twitter.com/nucoingame

Thanks!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yurizhai on March 09, 2016, 10:51:59 PM
So B&C 4.0 will allow reputed signer voting and which currencies will be traded on the exchange.

I believe this was touched on deep within this thread, but can someone describe the process of being a signer? Briefly walk us through the set up and day in life of a signer.

I ask because I'd really like to become one.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on March 10, 2016, 09:46:11 PM
I'm pleased to be able to announce that we have added Xiaochuan Wu as a Senior C++ Developer to the B&C Exchange development team. Xiaochuan successfully led a team of developers in the creation of the Huobi Bitcoin wallet. I asked him a series of difficult blockchain technical questions related to an upgrade scenario and he answered each perfectly, whereas other previous candidates had displayed mostly ignorance of the intracacies of blockchains. I can certify that he is a blockchain expert, as well as being well versed in C++.

Xiaochuan is on contract as a Senior C++ Developer from March 14th to August 13th, having committed to completing an average of 20 to 30 hours of billable work per week. He is interested in extending past August if funding permits. He is dedicated to B&C Exchange and is not expected to work on NuBits any time soon.

Please welcome Xiaochuan to the team! We now have significant development work on B&C Exchange occurring in North America, Europe and China.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NuCoinGame on March 10, 2016, 10:03:20 PM
Welcome Xiaochuan. I look forward to working with you on making B&C bigger than PB&J.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on March 11, 2016, 12:59:43 AM
Sounds like an impressive application.
I'm keen on seeing B&C Exchange in action.
Welcome, Xiaochuan Wu!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: mhps on March 11, 2016, 01:04:32 AM
It's great to see the dev team expanding.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Eleven_Wu on March 11, 2016, 01:52:19 AM
I'm pleased to be able to announce that we have added Xiaochuan Wu as a Senior C++ Developer to the B&C Exchange development team. Xiaochuan successfully led a team of developers in the creation of the Huobi Bitcoin wallet. I asked him a series of difficult blockchain technical questions related to an upgrade scenario and he answered each perfectly, whereas other previous candidates had displayed mostly ignorance of the intracacies of blockchains. I can certify that he is a blockchain expert, as well as being well versed in C++.

Xiaochuan is on contract as a Senior C++ Developer from March 14th to August 13th, having committed to completing an average of 20 to 30 hours of billable work per week. He is interested in extending past August if funding permits. He is dedicated to B&C Exchange and is not expected to work on NuBits any time soon.

Please welcome Xiaochuan to the team! We now have significant development work on B&C Exchange occurring in North America, Europe and China.

Hi guys, I am Xiaochuan Wu. I prefer you call me Eleven. Thank you very much ,Jordan. Thank you everyone here. I am very pleased to join B&C Exchange development team. B&C Exchange development team is doing cool and awesome things. I believe It would have a good future. I would do my best to make it better and better. Now I am together with B&C Exchange family.
Cheers.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on March 11, 2016, 01:53:30 AM
I'm pleased to be able to announce that we have added Xiaochuan Wu as a Senior C++ Developer to the B&C Exchange development team. Xiaochuan successfully led a team of developers in the creation of the Huobi Bitcoin wallet. I asked him a series of difficult blockchain technical questions related to an upgrade scenario and he answered each perfectly, whereas other previous candidates had displayed mostly ignorance of the intracacies of blockchains. I can certify that he is a blockchain expert, as well as being well versed in C++.

Xiaochuan is on contract as a Senior C++ Developer from March 14th to August 13th, having committed to completing an average of 20 to 30 hours of billable work per week. He is interested in extending past August if funding permits. He is dedicated to B&C Exchange and is not expected to work on NuBits any time soon.

Please welcome Xiaochuan to the team! We now have significant development work on B&C Exchange occurring in North America, Europe and China.

Hi guys, I am Xiaochuan Wu. I prefer you call me Eleven. Thank you very much ,Jordan. Thank you everyone here. I am very pleased to join B&C Exchange development team. B&C Exchange development team is doing cool and awesome things. I believe It would have a good future. I would do my best to make it better and better. Now I am together with B&C Exchange family.
Cheers.

Welcome @eleven. I am glad you made it!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Eleven_Wu on March 11, 2016, 02:02:14 AM
Welcome Xiaochuan. I look forward to working with you on making B&C bigger than PB&J.

Thank you NuCoinGame. I am also looking to working with you guy on achieve our great goals. Cheers


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Eleven_Wu on March 11, 2016, 02:19:24 AM
I'm pleased to be able to announce that we have added Xiaochuan Wu as a Senior C++ Developer to the B&C Exchange development team. Xiaochuan successfully led a team of developers in the creation of the Huobi Bitcoin wallet. I asked him a series of difficult blockchain technical questions related to an upgrade scenario and he answered each perfectly, whereas other previous candidates had displayed mostly ignorance of the intracacies of blockchains. I can certify that he is a blockchain expert, as well as being well versed in C++.

Xiaochuan is on contract as a Senior C++ Developer from March 14th to August 13th, having committed to completing an average of 20 to 30 hours of billable work per week. He is interested in extending past August if funding permits. He is dedicated to B&C Exchange and is not expected to work on NuBits any time soon.

Please welcome Xiaochuan to the team! We now have significant development work on B&C Exchange occurring in North America, Europe and China.

Hi guys, I am Xiaochuan Wu. I prefer you call me Eleven. Thank you very much ,Jordan. Thank you everyone here. I am very pleased to join B&C Exchange development team. B&C Exchange development team is doing cool and awesome things. I believe It would have a good future. I would do my best to make it better and better. Now I am together with B&C Exchange family.
Cheers.

Welcome @eleven. I am glad you made it!

Thank you so so much Cryptog for introducing to join in such a cool team and do cool things.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on March 11, 2016, 02:21:54 AM

Hi guys, I am Xiaochuan Wu. I prefer you call me Eleven. Thank you very much ,Jordan. Thank you everyone here. I am very pleased to join B&C Exchange development team. B&C Exchange development team is doing cool and awesome things. I believe It would have a good future. I would do my best to make it better and better. Now I am together with B&C Exchange family.
Cheers.

Wellcome Eleven!  Is this your product? Quickwallet?
https://quickwallet.com
I like this  Off Chain transaction very much!  In our PPC/Nu/B&C community, I guess the consensus is that the blockchain is suitable for settlement network, not good at micropayment. As Sunny King said, PPC is for "Backbone". So our PoS blockchain has no bloat issue, no 1 MB vs 2MB quarrel.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on March 11, 2016, 08:15:22 PM
So B&C 4.0 will allow reputed signer voting and which currencies will be traded on the exchange.

I believe this was touched on deep within this thread, but can someone describe the process of being a signer? Briefly walk us through the set up and day in life of a signer.

I ask because I'd really like to become one.

I'd like to ask additional questions:
is it possible to state hardware requirements for a computer that is suitable for running a signing node?
How much RAM and CPU speed is necessary, how much I/O, bandwidth, etc.?
Is it possible to host a redundant solution (I suppose it's not easily possible, at least not as an integrated solution)?

Is a device like RaspberryPi3 (https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-3-model-b/) suitable, or do you need more power?

As far as I understand, the reputed signers need to run nodes or have RPC access to daemons of the assets they offer signing for.
Can you please remind me: are only standard wallets supported or lightweight versions as well?
...signers for BTC will have a hard time, if they need to sync over 70 GB blockchain (https://bitinfocharts.com/)...


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: NuCoinGame on March 12, 2016, 12:50:10 AM
The best answer right now is a guesstimate by looking at the requirements of all the clients you'd like to support. You don't have to support all of them. You can pick and choose. Certainly Bitcoin could take a large chunk. I'm not sure but it might still work while utilizing the pruning feature in 0.12 (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/37496/how-can-i-run-bitcoind-in-pruning-mode) since it supports wallet functionality. That could cut down some on the size.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on March 12, 2016, 01:00:04 AM
can someone describe the process of being a signer? Briefly walk us through the set up and day in life of a signer.

I ask because I'd really like to become one.

To become a signer, you first need to appeal to shareholders to vote to increase your reputation. You, in this case, actually refers to your BlockShares public key you wish to use as your reputed signer identity.

I would recommend starting a new thread in the B&C Exchange section of discuss.nubits.com where you explain all the reasons why shareholders should vote for you as a signer.

Reputation voting will start once the protocol switch to 4.0 is complete.

Assuming you have success persuading shareholders to vote to raise your reputation, then you will need to decide which blockchains you wish to support. Only the Nu, B&C and Bitcoin blockchains will be supported at first. Let's say you decide to be a signer for only the B&C and Bitcoin blockchains, but not Nu. In that case, you will need to run a full Bitcoin client in addition to your B&C client. To have high availability, you will need to rent a VPS or dedicated server. You will need to configure your B&C Exchange client to work with your Bitcoin client. You will need to set up and back up wallets that you will use for signing.

Once you have your server or servers set up, you are ready to publish your deposit public key list for BlockShares, BlockCredits and Bitcoins. We will have an RPC that will allow you to do this. These deposit public keys will be consumed by exchange users, so you will need to publish new ones from time to time.

Everything else is automated. On a daily basis, you don't need to do anything except ensure your B&C client and Bitcoin client continue to run and communicate with one another. Signing and validations are all automated.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on March 12, 2016, 03:09:22 AM
VPS or dedicated server... It seems that  raspberrypi 3 is not as powerful as these
Btw, is it safe to put everything on a VPS server? I don't trust any big company at all.





Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Eleven_Wu on March 12, 2016, 10:47:49 AM

Hi guys, I am Xiaochuan Wu. I prefer you call me Eleven. Thank you very much ,Jordan. Thank you everyone here. I am very pleased to join B&C Exchange development team. B&C Exchange development team is doing cool and awesome things. I believe It would have a good future. I would do my best to make it better and better. Now I am together with B&C Exchange family.
Cheers.

Wellcome Eleven!  Is this your product? Quickwallet?
https://quickwallet.com
I like this  Off Chain transaction very much!  In our PPC/Nu/B&C community, I guess the consensus is that the blockchain is suitable for settlement network, not good at micropayment. As Sunny King said, PPC is for "Backbone". So our PoS blockchain has no bloat issue, no 1 MB vs 2MB quarrel.



Yes, it is our product. It is 2-2 multi-signature wallet.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on March 12, 2016, 06:41:09 PM
VPS or dedicated server... It seems that  raspberrypi 3 is not as powerful as these
Btw, is it safe to put everything on a VPS server? I don't trust any big company at all.

Here is some content from a similar discussion on discuss.nubits.com (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/what-is-the-ideal-hardware-configuration-to-become-a-b-c-reputed-signer/3653/20) that addresses your concern and some related issues:

Quote

I expect we will see some experimentation and over time our concept of best practices for providing signer security and availability will evolve.

I will just outline what I had envisioned with the expectation that the community may be able improve upon it.

First, remember that no one needs to know signer IP addresses at any time. Communication to signers and from signers is exclusively by general network broadcast among all peers. Allowing anyone to know the IP address of a signer client is an unnecessary security risk.

With that in mind, signers can open a single use email account and purchase their Linux VPS or dedicated server using NuBits or Bitcoin. They then install the clients they need (such as Nu, B&C and Bitcoin) and the Tor Browser Bundle. The clients are all easily configured to use Tor as a proxy using the graphical interfaces.

The B&C network is unable to distinguish a signer node from other nodes that are minting or just broadcasting messages. Even if you could identify a signer node, you would only know the IP address of its Tor exit node.

Though this setup brings some risk of compromise from the VPS service provider, it seems quite small because there is no reason they would understand the VPS is being used for B&C Exchange signing. VPS providers compete on providing computing that can't be tampered with by employees with administrative rights. All the VPS provider can observe from the network traffic is that the server is communicating over Tor.

It is possible to increase the security of the design by using multiple servers, failover nodes and so forth, but the above configuration is quite simple to set up and should suffice to begin with.

A signer server set up this way is likely harder to locate than a Tor hidden service.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on March 12, 2016, 09:46:12 PM
Welcome @Eleven to B&C exchange family and Task Force!

Things are getting more exciting each day!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on March 17, 2016, 05:10:09 AM
I am excited to be able to announce the 4.0 release of B&C Exchange. It contains major protocol changes centering around the reputation system for signers, which is fully functional in this release.

We have implemented protocol voting in B&C, so when 90% of minted blocks have the upgraded protocol, the two week countdown to the actual protocol switch date will begin.

Once the switch occurs, shareholders will begin using the reputation voting system to elect reputed signers. @TomJoad has already indicated he will seek to be a signer. I am very interested to see who else will seek to become a B&C reputed signer. For those who are interested in becoming a signer, here is a summary of how to do that (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.720). Additional details can be found in the B&C Exchange design document (https://nubits.com/sites/default/files/assets/Blocks%20%26%20Chains%20Decentralized%20Exchange.pdf).

Until now, active participation in B&C Exchange has been mostly restricted to developers. This release will change that as shareholders vote for reputed signers and reputed signers work with developers to bring B&C Exchange to full functionality in a 5.0 release.

I'm excited to be able to see the reputation system in action in just a few short weeks. I expect we will see quite a bit of discussion in the community about the reputation system and reputed signers going forward.

Here are the builds:

Download B&C Exchange 4.0 for Windows (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.0-win-gitian.zip)

Download B&C Exchange 4.0 for Linux (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.0-linux-gitian.zip)


An OS X release will be available soon.

Here are some details (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zSX3JpEv8FT7W9LJprCGGHgAgg95FXGSPaFT7tPvpe8/edit) about the features included in 4.0 and how to use them, provided by @CoinGame.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: luffy on March 17, 2016, 12:48:08 PM
very excited!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: piebeyb on March 17, 2016, 05:05:24 PM
what is the latest on this thread, maybe I would be interested to be part of this thread


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on March 17, 2016, 07:59:41 PM
what is the latest on this thread, maybe I would be interested to be part of this thread


Have you read through it yet? The main info is listed in the first post, while questions and answers about B&C Exchange are posted throughout the thread. Jordan just announced a new version release (v4.0) a couple posts above.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on March 25, 2016, 06:45:05 PM
Recent updates:

1) Active testing continues on B&C Exchange v4.0.1.  

2) As development is quickly progressing with the recent hiring of eleven, we are becoming more active on Twitter. Please follow us at twitter.com/BC_Exchange (https://twitter.com/bc_exchange) for the latest development news.

3) We are still continuing to pursue new developer candidates to increase the pace of development.

As a reminder, please upgrade to B&C Exchange v4.0 if you haven't already done so, at bcexchange.org (https://bcexchange.org). This is a mandatory upgrade for all users.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: ?chooseusername on March 25, 2016, 07:18:35 PM
Few questions:


  • What makes B&C better than OpenLedger?
  • What are the differences between BKS shareholders and signers in terms of voting power?
  • How are you planning to take into consideration and defend the B&C user interests Vs BKS shareholders & signers?  

I see your voting system a bit too static and away from what decentralization means...You are giving zero power to your users which are the most important part of your project. You might have achieved a decentralized platform but its governance model defeats the whole idea that your are trying to sell. Why don't you make it a decentralized autonomous exchange (DAE) far from human conflict of interest. The running costs including developers would come out of the fees and donations and if there was a surplus the whole community could vote what to do with it via a smart voting system that takes into account the users voice, the developers voice and the infrastructure people voice. Perhaps this is the next thing after "Decentralized" exchanges...

Cheers


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on March 25, 2016, 07:30:47 PM
Few questions:


  • What makes B&C better than OpenLedger?
  • What are the differences between BKS shareholders and signers in terms of voting power?
  • How are you planning to take into consideration and defend the B&C user interests Vs BKS shareholders & signers?  

I see your voting system a bit too static and away from what decentralization means...You are giving zero power to your users which are the most important part of your project. You might have achieved a decentralized platform but its governance model defeats the whole idea that your are trying to sell. Why don't you make it a decentralized autonomous exchange (DAE) far from human conflict of interest. The running costs including developers would come out of the fees and donations and if there was a surplus the whole community could vote what to do with it via a smart voting system that takes into account the users voice, the developers voice and the infrastructure people voice. Perhaps this is the next thing after "Decentralized" exchanges...

Cheers

Simply put, democracy is a fallacy. In practice it doesn't work because human beings are not equal. In fact, they are very different and it's damn easy to inflate population with low value individuals. Everyone can make children, you don't even need a degree for that. But to educate one so that they would become a valuable member to the society is a whole different thing. What we see in Europe shows that politicians only care about votes and they aim to get the votes from migrants and other socialist parasites. As a result, foul laws are being passed and Europe moves through the spiral of self-destruction. That said, I wouldn't push that "users first" agenda so much. An exchange is a business, apply the rules of (anarcho) capitalism and you will see that B&C Exchange is perfect just the way it was designed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: ?chooseusername on March 25, 2016, 09:41:33 PM
Few questions:


  • What makes B&C better than OpenLedger?
  • What are the differences between BKS shareholders and signers in terms of voting power?
  • How are you planning to take into consideration and defend the B&C user interests Vs BKS shareholders & signers?  

I see your voting system a bit too static and away from what decentralization means...You are giving zero power to your users which are the most important part of your project. You might have achieved a decentralized platform but its governance model defeats the whole idea that your are trying to sell. Why don't you make it a decentralized autonomous exchange (DAE) far from human conflict of interest. The running costs including developers would come out of the fees and donations and if there was a surplus the whole community could vote what to do with it via a smart voting system that takes into account the users voice, the developers voice and the infrastructure people voice. Perhaps this is the next thing after "Decentralized" exchanges...

Cheers
...That said, I wouldn't push that "users first" agenda so much. An exchange is a business, apply the rules of (anarcho) capitalism and you will see that B&C Exchange is perfect just the way it was designed.
Great business model! No users = no business

But it's okay... Profit is always FIRST, isn't it? B&C will be just another unsuccessful "decentralized" exchange

*1 It's sad to see a great and innovative idea being destroyed by the classical and primitive capitalist shareholders model which has shown that is not sustainable in the long term
Edit: *1


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on March 26, 2016, 08:03:31 AM
The operation cost of B&C is quite low, the hardware are dozens of low end PCs and neglectable power comsumption per year, or internet fee(probably already paid). B&C can survive with low income in long term.

And BKS holders will listen to the users who may ask for services on forum, of course, shareholders are not deaf.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: ?chooseusername on March 26, 2016, 09:40:55 AM
The operation cost of B&C is quite low, the hardware are dozens of low end PCs and neglectable power comsumption per year, or internet fee(probably already paid). B&C can survive with low income in long term.

And BKS holders will listen to the users who may ask for services on forum, of course, shareholders are not deaf.
They will listen the same way corporations listen to their users but hey! it's okay, making profit out of them it's all that matters.

I'm still waiting for the answers of my questions


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on March 26, 2016, 10:41:54 AM
  • What makes B&C better than OpenLedger?

I don't know whether it's better. It's just different, e.g. in the way it offers trading pairs. B&C will offer trading of native assets instead of using proxy assets. This can remove friction.

And you can bet that B&C will have sufficient (US-)NBT liquidity. So you can effectively trade assets at pairs with "USD rates".
Does Openledger have pairs with synthetic fiat at a tight peg and decent volume?

Does Openledger have a client with that you can do your trades or are you limited to a website for your trading?
While it's expected to find websites that allow convenient access to the "B&C user accounts", the user account is on the B&C blockchain and the user can't be locked out. What happens to user funds on exchange, if https://bitshares.openledger.info is down due to technical or legal issues, DDoS'ed or unusable in any other way?

You might be able to DDoS B&C as well, but that will make BKS holders awfully rich and can't be sustained forever.
Users can't be locked out from their funds easily. They are handled by multisg through the signers.


  • What are the differences between BKS shareholders and signers in terms of voting power?
None, that I'm aware of. Being signer doesn't create voting power. It's signing the tx, that are required for trading, what the signers are for. Voting is done by the BKS holders.

  • How are you planning to take into consideration and defend the B&C user interests Vs BKS shareholders & signers?
B&C user interests are of paramount interest for BKS holders. It's the users that consume BKC, which are required to pay fees and get destroyed by that. Destroying BKC means new BKC can get sold. That generates revenue (BTC), which BKS holders want to achieve (BTC will be distributed as dividends to BKS holders).
Signers are a kind of contract workers, hired by BKS holders.
If they don't behave, they'll get removed and replaced.

I see your voting system a bit too static and away from what decentralization means...
You seem to confuse decentralization with communism. Ownership of B&C and the signers are decentralized and distributed.

You are giving zero power to your users which are the most important part of your project.
Users have all the power they need to have. They vote with their purses ;)

You might have achieved a decentralized platform but its governance model defeats the whole idea that your are trying to sell. Why don't you make it a decentralized autonomous exchange (DAE) far from human conflict of interest. The running costs including developers would come out of the fees and donations and if there was a surplus the whole community could vote what to do with it via a smart voting system that takes into account the users voice, the developers voice and the infrastructure people voice.
This governance model (shareholders deciding by direct voting which way to go) proved to be very successful during all the development decisions and business process decisions Nu had to make since its beginning.
It's way more advances than what's used in traditional stock corporations. You don't need middlemen here!
As I said before, users already have a vote. They vote with they behaviour. If they don't come or leave the exchange, the BKS holders will hear that!
Users have an interest in using a convenient and cheap exchange.
BKS holders want to offer that, but still make money from it.
As the BKS holders funded this whole exchange, I think it's ok, if they have a say.
If users want to influence something at B&C directly, they might want to buy BKS? ;)

And BKS holders will listen to the users who may ask for services on forum, of course, shareholders are not deaf.
They will listen the same way corporations listen to their users but hey! it's okay, making profit out of them it's all that matters.

I'm still waiting for the answers of my questions

Corporations who listen to their users are more successful than others - at least if there are alternatives; a monopoly is different.
B&C is not the only decentralized exchange approach.
B&C will need to listen to its users.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on March 26, 2016, 10:49:50 AM
Great business model! No users = no business

But it's okay... Profit is always FIRST, isn't it? B&C will be just another unsuccessful "decentralized" exchange

*1 It's sad to see a great and innovative idea being destroyed by the classical and primitive capitalist shareholders model which has shown that is not sustainable in the long term
Edit: *1

You are overly dramatic about it. Shareholders aren't dumb. They will listen to the users. You must understand that no one is going to develop a p2p exchange for free. Why should I give free money out to fund such development without expecting any profits? Why should anyone do it? Software development isn't cheap, you know. If you, as a user, are interested in voting on the matters then you are free to buy some blockshares so that your vote would count more than just an opinion from a potential user.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: ?chooseusername on March 26, 2016, 07:38:38 PM
All I hear is BS... I have no longer interest in this project. You won't get half a dime from me


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on March 26, 2016, 07:41:53 PM
All I hear is BS... I have no longer interest in this project. You won't get half a dime from me

Couldn't care less.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on March 26, 2016, 08:22:59 PM
All I hear is BS... I have no longer interest in this project. You won't get half a dime from me

You sound like the kind of person that came in here with your mind already made up. I think MasterOfDisaster made many great points in his post. If all you're going to do is talk over these arguments and ignore them by calling them BS, then it's not worth it trying to convince you. Your emotional and negative attitude doesn't help matters either. If you want to discuss things logically, then I believe shareholders here are open to doing that with you, but they're not going to waste their time when you clearly don't seem to care about the arguments being made.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on March 26, 2016, 10:17:15 PM
All I hear is BS... I have no longer interest in this project. You won't get half a dime from me

You don't come across as having had genuine interest. You asked questions and got answers.
They might not be after your fancy, but calling eveything you hear BS is less helpful than arguing and explaining why you see it differently.

Maybe helping wasn't your intention.
That is interesting, because you wanted to accuse BKS holders of being selfish. Not so different after all...

Anyway - have fun... btw. dimes aren't supported by B&C ;-)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: sabreiib on March 27, 2016, 12:21:38 AM
There is a s h i t in real world called communism/socialism.



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: JordanLee on March 28, 2016, 09:18:14 PM
What makes B&C better than OpenLedger?

B&C Exchange exclusively uses native blockchain assets, whereas OpenLedger uses proxy assets that bring with them high counterparty risk. When Bitcoin is traded on B&C Exchange, it is real blockchain BTC that never leaves the Bitcoin blockchain. When "Bitcoin" is traded on OpenLedger, it is actually a user issued asset on the Bitshares blockchain. It has nothing in common with Bitcoin except that it is supposed to maintain the value of Bitcoin, which it may in fact not maintain due to counterparty risk from the asset issuer.

What are the differences between BKS shareholders and signers in terms of voting power?

Signers don't have any voting power at all, while shareholders collectively hold all the voting power.


How are you planning to take into consideration and defend the B&C user interests Vs BKS shareholders & signers?

Just like any business that has shareholders, B&C Exchange shareholders will lose money if they don't please users. The question has the same answer as the question "How do Delta Airlines shareholders defend the interests of Delta Airline passengers?". 


I see your voting system a bit too static and away from what decentralization means...You are giving zero power to your users which are the most important part of your project. You might have achieved a decentralized platform but its governance model defeats the whole idea that your are trying to sell. Why don't you make it a decentralized autonomous exchange (DAE) far from human conflict of interest. The running costs including developers would come out of the fees and donations and if there was a surplus the whole community could vote what to do with it via a smart voting system that takes into account the users voice, the developers voice and the infrastructure people voice.

I don't believe users want power. With power comes responsibility, and that can be an unwanted hassle. Users want to trade one asset for another quickly, easily and at a good price without the counterparty risk present at most cryptoasset exchanges. If there are individual users who do want power, they should become shareholders. If I wanted to become a passenger on Delta Airlines, I wouldn't want any power within Delta Airlines. I would only want an inexpensive and hassle free trip to my destination.

Our governance model is absolutely superb. The governance model of Peershares (B&C Exchange is a Peershare) is better than all other blockchain governance models. All shareholders are true peers and there is no authority in our system other than the collective will of shareholders. Shareholders can choose to compensate developers or any one else with grants of BlockShares or BlockCredits in any amount. Shareholders can pass motions that set various rules of operation. For example, a completely decentralised vote to halt BlockShare sales was passed by shareholders some time ago. B&C Exchange's governance is decentralised, flexible and powerful.

Peershares such as NuBits and B&C Exchange are the most advanced form of decentralised blockchain governance to date. The work I have already done establishes me as the leading innovator in decentralised blockchain governance.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Financisto on March 29, 2016, 02:24:32 AM
*1 It's sad to see a great and innovative idea being destroyed by the classical and primitive capitalist shareholders model which has shown that is not sustainable in the long term
Edit: *1

What is "long term" in your opinion?

In America and Europe - (Asia too) - we got thousands 'secular corporations' (Coca-Cola comes to my mind right now), mostly still 'alive' today thanks to that "shareholders model" widely adopted since Dutch East India Company (VOC) (http://www.worldsoldestshare.com) in the 17th century.

Hint: if you seek some kind of "Virtual neo-USSR" in cryptocurrency community, you're in the wrong place pal!

All I hear is BS... I have no longer interest in this project. You won't get half a dime from me

Maybe that guy wanted to say "All I hear is B(lock)S(hares)"... LOL

There is a s h i t in real world called communism/socialism.

Agreed. Don't forget there's a (less known) crap called Syndicalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism).

Thanks MoD and JL, your info gives us a good general POV of B&C.

edit:

@JordanLee

You really do like Delta Airlines, don't ya? :)


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: jrpatking on March 29, 2016, 01:36:51 PM
When are you going live? Are you still seeking funds from funders? How to fund?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on March 30, 2016, 03:59:03 AM
Peershares such as NuBits and B&C Exchange are the most advanced form of decentralised blockchain governance to date. The work I have already done establishes me as the leading innovator in decentralised blockchain governance.

I must say agree.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on March 30, 2016, 09:05:05 PM
When are you going live?
It depends what you consider "live". The blockchain is live from the beginning and allowed trading BKS ever since.
Asset voting (to determine which tokens can be traded on the B&C Exchange) has just begun.
Trading the assets is still not possible, but that might change rapidly, now that Eleven has been hired as (additionaφ) full time developer to increase the development speed.
Look at the progress here: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/commits/

Are you still seeking funds from funders?
Funding is complete for now. If additional funding is required to develop e.g. a website to access the B&C Exchange blockchain, additional BKS might be created by the current BKS holders and sold/auctioned. This is not on the agenda I'm aware of.

How to fund?
Not possible at the moment. If you want to purchase BKS, you need to buy them on the open market, e.g. here: https://www.ccedk.com/bks-us-nbt or via escrow. I can point you to someone if you are interested in the latter one (useful for bigger amounts than offered at CCEDK).


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: zaph3t on March 30, 2016, 10:56:08 PM
Good luck with your Project Im watching this and hope our project will be added to the list of currencies.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: CryptoDatabase on March 31, 2016, 08:31:13 AM
Your coin's information has been added to Crypto Database, if it is missing information or some information is incorrect please let me know.

Your coin could be listed on the index page of Crypto Database. Vote for it here, http://cryptodatabase.net/coins.php?cat=B



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on March 31, 2016, 10:42:40 PM
For those who are not aware, Jordan posted this on the NuBits forum. All BlockShareholders need to upgrade to B&C v4.0.1. I bolded the important parts.

Quote from: JordanLee
A defect in B&C Exchange version 4.0.0 has been discovered that will require B&C minters to upgrade to 4.0.1 before the protocol switch date, which will be two weeks after 90% of blocks are minted with 4.0.0 or 4.0.1. Currently, only 21.9% of blocks have a vote for protocol 4.

Version 4.0.1 also has a new RPC called getprotocolvotes that produces the following output:

{
"2.0" : {
"blocks" : 1562,
"block_percentage" : 78.1,
"switch_to_date_time" : ""
},
"4.0" : {
"blocks" : 438,
"block_percentage" : 21.9,
"switch_to_date_time" : ""
}
}

This RPC will tell us exactly when the switch time will be after protocol 4 votes exceed 90%. It was developed solely by Eleven, who just joined us as a developer. Congratulations to @Eleven for getting your first code to the production environment! That was quick!

Download B&C Exchange 4.0.1 for Windows (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-win-gitian.zip)

Download B&C Exchange 4.0.1 for Linux (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-linux-gitian.zip)

An OS X build will be published soon.

Finally, it is important everyone make the effort to upgrade. A delay in achieving a 90% vote for the new protocol will produce the same delay in the network's ability to use the reputation system to vote for and reward reputed signers. Let's move quickly.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on March 31, 2016, 11:30:36 PM
Thank you @Sentinelrv.

All BlockShareholders must upgrade their B&C Exchange client to version 4.0.1 immediately, to ensure we continue to build momentum towards a functional exchange. This is a mandatory upgrade for all users.

Visit bcexchange.org (https://bcexchange.org) to download 4.0.1 for Windows and Linux or use the links below. Mac OSX builds will arrive in the near future.

Windows: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-win-gitian.zip

Linux: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-linux-gitian.zip


Title: A call to BKS holders
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 01, 2016, 05:57:14 PM
All BlockShareholders must upgrade their B&C Exchange client to version 4.0.1 immediately, to ensure we continue to build momentum towards a functional exchange. This is a mandatory upgrade for all users.

A call to all BKS holders:
from release 4.0.0 on asset voting is possible (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg14223367#msg14223367).
Upgrade to 4.0.1 if you are still on 3.x to make the protocol switch possible!
This protocol switch is required to start asset voting and other stuff.

At the NuBits forum (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/configure-your-votes-when-minting/3729/) has a discussion started regarding asset voting.
You might already be aware of that, but if not, start getting familiar with it:
you need to configure votes when minting with BKS.

As a responsible shareholder you need to decide the fate of the coporation of which you own shares!
Not minting (and trying to evade that problem this way) is not yet an option: the higher the participation of shares in the minting process, the higher the security of the network.
Keep your property safe and vote wisely!
I wrote "note yet", because there will be data feed providers, from whom you can register feeds that configure votes. Once you've found a data feed provider, that decides after your fancy, you can register that feed and mint with settings continuously updated by the data feed provider.
Alas, there are no data feed providers yet.
So: configure your votes! ;)

If you don't configure votes and mint, you essentially vote against everything, ultimately stalling the decision process of the coorporation, harming your property!
You don't want that, do you?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on April 02, 2016, 04:33:31 PM
We have reached 34.35% of protocol votes for version 4.0. All minters must upgrade as soon as possible so that shareholders can begin using the reputation system to vote for and reward reputed signers.


Title: Re: A call to BKS holders
Post by: MadCow on April 03, 2016, 05:11:11 AM
All BlockShareholders must upgrade their B&C Exchange client to version 4.0.1 immediately, to ensure we continue to build momentum towards a functional exchange. This is a mandatory upgrade for all users.

A call to all BKS holders:
from release 4.0.0 on asset voting is possible (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg14223367#msg14223367).
Upgrade to 4.0.1 if you are still on 3.x to make the protocol switch possible!
This protocol switch is required to start asset voting and other stuff.

At the NuBits forum (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/configure-your-votes-when-minting/3729/) has a discussion started regarding asset voting.
You might already be aware of that, but if not, start getting familiar with it:
you need to configure votes when minting with BKS.

As a responsible shareholder you need to decide the fate of the coporation of which you own shares!
Not minting (and trying to evade that problem this way) is not yet an option: the higher the participation of shares in the minting process, the higher the security of the network.
Keep your property safe and vote wisely!
I wrote "note yet", because there will be data feed providers, from whom you can register feeds that configure votes. Once you've found a data feed provider, that decides after your fancy, you can register that feed and mint with settings continuously updated by the data feed provider.
Alas, there are no data feed providers yet.
So: configure your votes! ;)

If you don't configure votes and mint, you essentially vote against everything, ultimately stalling the decision process of the coorporation, harming your property!
You don't want that, do you?


Ouch, I didn't realise the consequences here, sorry ... updating asap!


Title: Re: A call to BKS holders
Post by: MadCow on April 03, 2016, 05:20:28 AM
Alas, there are no data feed providers yet.
So: configure your votes! ;)

If you don't configure votes and mint, you essentially vote against everything, ultimately stalling the decision process of the coorporation, harming your property!
You don't want that, do you?


any tips on pain-free vote configuration?


Title: Re: A call to BKS holders
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 03, 2016, 08:38:04 AM
Ouch, I didn't realise the consequences here, sorry ... updating asap!

any tips on pain-free vote configuration?

Nice to see that my alarming post delivered the message ;)
The good news is that there are currently no motions, etc. going on.
And for asset voting the protocol switch needs to happen and a lot more minters need to upgrade to version 4.
So there's still some time to get familiar with it.

There's no pain-free vote configuration ;)
You can do it manually and need to follow the development closely - which continually takes time.
Or you can register a data feed, but must do some assessment to find out which data feed provider votes after your fancy - which takes time for an initial assessment and some checks from time to time.

I think the most easy solution is to get votes configured is by registering a data feed.
I'm only aware of one data feed, provided by Cybnate, a very reputed member of the Nu community who hosts a Nu Network data feed as well.
The B&C Exchange data fee is here: https://github.com/Cybnate/BKS-datafeed
...and you'll find it empty, because there's nothing to vote for at the moment.

If you want to know how it works, have a look here (this is for the Nu Network, but it works the same): https://discuss.nubits.com/t/cybnates-datafeed-beta/1310
More information about (Nu Network) data feeds: https://docs.nubits.com/using-a-data-feed/

Before you delegate your voting behaviour to somebody, you should make sure that person has a mindset that is compatible with yours!

For B&C Exchange there was only one motion so far: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/bks-passed-motion-to-stop-sale-of-bks/2485/
Cybnate supported that in her data feed: https://github.com/Cybnate/BKS-datafeed/commit/1791d4125820d47720ad745d716d37d423a45584#diff-83fc3e19234622842fbf4ce8d074644b

If you want to know more about Cybnate, you should visit the Nu Network forum and look for her posts, work, reasoning, and votes she configures for the Nu Network.

I'm aware that this sounds like a lot of work and in fact it is.
BKS are not just tokens of a "cryptocurrency".
They are shares of a corporation (B&C Exchange).
With owning shares comes power.
And with power comes responsibility!



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on April 03, 2016, 07:33:01 PM
We have reached 39.80% of protocol votes for version 4.0. If you own BlockShares, please upgrade to version 4.0 immediately. The protocol switch date will be two weeks after 90% of blocks are minted with 4.0.0 or 4.0.1.

Visit bcexchange.org (https://bcexchange.org) to download 4.0.1 for Windows and Linux or use the links below. Mac OSX builds will arrive in the near future.

Windows: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-win-gitian.zip

Linux: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-linux-gitian.zip


Title: Re: A call to BKS holders
Post by: MadCow on April 04, 2016, 09:30:15 AM

I'm aware that this sounds like a lot of work and in fact it is.
BKS are not just a tokes of a "cryptocurrency".
They are shares of a corporation (B&C Exchange).
With owning shares comes power.
And with power comes responsibility!



Thanks for that reply! I'm just a small holder (125 shares) so I will probably use a data feed eventually, but I will follow more closely now. I do like the idea of being a shareholder in a new venture.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 04, 2016, 06:29:11 PM
And I've just been reminded that there's another data feed for BKS voting:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/cryptogs-bcexchange-data-feeds-beta/2503


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Hyena on April 04, 2016, 08:57:55 PM
And I've just been reminded that there's another data feed for BKS voting:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/cryptogs-bcexchange-data-feeds-beta/2503

yes, I was starting to wonder already why hasn't this been mentioned yet. somehow I agree with cryptog on a lot of topics so I feel good having subscribed to their data feed.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: MadCow on April 05, 2016, 12:58:04 AM
And I've just been reminded that there's another data feed for BKS voting:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/cryptogs-bcexchange-data-feeds-beta/2503

Thanks, it would be good to compile a list of data feed providers to make it easier for people to decide


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on April 05, 2016, 04:12:28 AM
We have reached 42.85% of protocol votes for version 4.0. All shareholders must upgrade to version 4.0 immediately. The protocol switch date will be two weeks after 90% of blocks are minted with 4.0.0 or 4.0.1.

Visit bcexchange.org (https://bcexchange.org) to download 4.0.1 for Windows and Linux or use the links below. Mac OSX builds will arrive in the near future.

Windows: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-win-gitian.zip

Linux: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-linux-gitian.zip


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 05, 2016, 05:10:26 AM
Thanks, it would be good to compile a list of data feed providers to make it easier for people to decide

Having a list is not enough. You need to assess the data feed provider; this is crucial. You need to make sure he/she configures the votes after your fancy.
If you register a feed from a provider who doesn't vote like you'd vote (or at least very often close to it) if you'd configure the votes manually, you might be better off, stopping the minting.
That theoretically harms the security of the network, because it reduces the part of the shares that are minting.
The alternative - having votes that lead (from your perspective) in the wrong direction - can be dangerous (for your interest) as well.
That's what I mean when saying there comes a responsibility with owning shares of a corporation, especially if you are able to vote directly and make decisions; like the protocol update:

We have reached 42.85% of protocol votes for version 4.0. All shareholders must upgrade to version 4.0 immediately. The protocol switch date will be two weeks after 90% of blocks are minted with 4.0.0 or 4.0.1.

The protocol switch can only happen, if the vast majority of (active!) minters have switched to 4.0.0 or 4.0.1!

Selecting a data feed provider requires finding out, what side takes in discussions and what are the arguments of the provider.
It's pretty much like trying to find out about whether you want to elect a specific politician:
try to find out what he/she says (here: forum discussions) and what he/she does (here: data feeds; are the aligned with the discussions?)!
You can look for data feed providers here:
https://discuss.nubits.com/c/b-c-exchange

Regarding asset voting (that will be able once the protocol switch is complete), from: 
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/configure-your-votes-when-minting/3729/16

Quote from: JordanLee, post:16, topic:3729, full:true
There a number of facts shareholders should know (unless they are using data feeds) regarding configuring asset voting.

For the maxtrade value, bear in mind that it won't really matter until the 5.0 version is released. Let me explain a little about the development process as I see it from now until just past release of 5.0, which will explain my suggested maxtrade value. Right now most messages can be sent, but their processing isn't implemented. We will work on that and as we do, we will begin see the exchange function in the context of a few narrow and limited use cases. Because the exchange will be incomplete, it stands to reason there will be plenty of ways to exploit the solution in its incomplete form. That is fine, because we are on test net and it is just part of the process. Eventually, we will get to where we have provided for all the use cases and no known major or high risk exploits are possible. This will be the time to move the solution to production, but we wouldn't want to do so with high max trade values. We want to start it with very low max trade sizes, so it can be tested without risk of loss of substantial funds. A good place to start would be around 1 USD. Once the exchange performs well with that limit, it can be raised incrementally at whatever pace seems appropriate at the time.

In regard to required signers and total signers, please remember that the protocol requires two backup signers to validate orders. This means 2 of 3 multisig cannot meet B&C protocol. The protocol can be changed (this hasn't even been coded yet), but doing so increases risk. I recommend we not do that. 2 of 4 is the minimum number of signers to be protocol compliant. If 2 of 4 is used, and a single signer is unavailable, no orders with the involved funds can placed. The funds wouldn't be lost because they can still be withdrawn without backup signers, however. I suggest 3 of 6 as a minimum number of required and total signers. More total signers and more required signers, such as 8 of 15, provide much better decentralisation but somewhat higher costs for transaction fees and signer compensation. My recommendation for a starting point is 3 of 6:  3 required signers and 6 total signers. I hope we move to 8 of 15 soon.

Also bear in mind that once an asset has been successfully voted in, you don't need to keep voting for it with its maxtrade value and so forth, unless you want to change one of the values from its current setting. If you don't vote, then your vote is counted as a vote for the status quo. So, if the current number of required Bitcoin signers is 3, if I vote for 3, it just wastes blockchain space. An abstention will be interpreted as a 3 by protocol. If you wanted to change it to 5, then you should include it in your vote. This notion of an abstention being counted as a vote for the current network setting applies to most things that can be voted for within B&C Exchange.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on April 05, 2016, 09:07:40 PM
And I've just been reminded that there's another data feed for BKS voting:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/cryptogs-bcexchange-data-feeds-beta/2503

Thanks, it would be good to compile a list of data feed providers to make it easier for people to decide

I agree. I have created this thread: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/b-c-exchange-data-feeds-providers-list/3747



Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on April 06, 2016, 01:06:09 AM
We have declined to 41.05% of protocol votes for version 4.0. All shareholders are reminded that they must upgrade to version 4.0 immediately. The protocol switch date will be two weeks after 90% of blocks are minted with 4.0.0 or 4.0.1.

Also, we have reached the top 10 in all-time page views (currently 9th) on the Project Development thread of Bitcointalk. Thank you to everyone who is supporting our project!

Visit bcexchange.org (https://bcexchange.org) to download 4.0.1 for Windows and Linux or use the links below. Mac OSX builds will arrive in the near future.

Windows: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-win-gitian.zip

Linux: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-linux-gitian.zip


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 06, 2016, 05:15:26 AM
Minting with release 3 of the client harms your investment as it delays the asset voting, which is a prerequisite for trading on B&C Exchange.
Either upgrade to release 4 or stop minting, if you can't upgrade for whatever reason!


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on April 06, 2016, 09:50:32 AM
Maybe a handful of shareholders that would own 50% of the network do not bother upgrading but according to this poll (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/new-poll-how-many-bks-do-you-own/3586), we have some indications that it is not the case.

By the way, do not hesitate to take the poll if you have not yet.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: cryptog1 on April 06, 2016, 09:57:17 AM
Out of curiosity, how does B&C Exchange main idea compare with zero knowledge proof-based decentralized exchange (ex: http://roberts.pm/zk_exchange) ?


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 07, 2016, 01:02:03 AM
I have posted reminders to upgrade to v4.0.1 on Peercoin related channels and r/cryptocurrency. Please support these posts so they have a further reach. The upgrade process is going too slowly. I can't imagine people funding a venture like this with hundreds of thousands of dollars and then letting it fall apart because they can't pay enough attention to upgrade on time. Let's get this done so we can move on to more important matters!

- https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/4doplh/reminder_all_blockshareholders_must_upgrade_to_bc/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/peercoin/comments/4dopcm/reminder_all_blockshareholders_must_upgrade_to_bc/
- https://twitter.com/PeercoinPPC/status/717870089727553536
- https://www.facebook.com/Peercoin/posts/1016790738413370
- https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4450.0


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: hozer on April 11, 2016, 05:02:03 AM
  • How are you planning to take into consideration and defend the B&C user interests Vs BKS shareholders & signers?
B&C user interests are of paramount interest for BKS holders. It's the users that consume BKC, which are required to pay fees and get destroyed by that. Destroying BKC means new BKC can get sold. That generates revenue (BTC), which BKS holders want to achieve (BTC will be distributed as dividends to BKS holders).
Signers are a kind of contract workers, hired by BKS holders.
If they don't behave, they'll get removed and replaced.


Very interesting.

What options are there to distribute dividends with other currencies (say maybe Nubits or something like Grantcoin) while still retaining the network effects? Or will this require a fork, with all the associated dilution.

There also seems to be a risk of financial engineering a 'short' outside the BKS/BKC/etc system in which it becomes profitable to acquire, and then vote against the self-interest of the acquired crypto asset. It is either this, or a lack of patience that seems to be resulting in the long time it's taking to get enough clients upgraded (and voting for) the 4.0 protocol.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 11, 2016, 01:16:09 PM
What options are there to distribute dividends with other currencies (say maybe Nubits or something like Grantcoin) while still retaining the network effects? Or will this require a fork, with all the associated dilution.
The dividend distribution is coded in the client, but a software fork to support additional currencies doesn't lead to dilution; it would merely be a new client release with a new feature.
As far as I understand the dividend addresses (public keys) get derived from the BKS private keys.
At a snapshot date, a distribution to the dividend addresses takes place.
Introducing additional/alternative dividend types isn't even a protocol update - you just need a client to distribute dividends and a client to generate the dividend addresses.

There also seems to be a risk of financial engineering a 'short' outside the BKS/BKC/etc system in which it becomes profitable to acquire, and then vote against the self-interest of the acquired crypto asset. It is either this, or a lack of patience that seems to be resulting in the long time it's taking to get enough clients upgraded (and voting for) the 4.0 protocol.

While this risk is theoretically exisiting, I have a hard time seeing a relation between it and the upgrading apathy.
BKC don't exist. Not a single one has been created so far,
There's currently only one place that trades BKS: CCEDK (BTC (https://www.ccedk.com/bks-btc) and US-NBT (https://www.ccedk.com/bks-usnbt) pair; almost no orders an no volume at the BTC pair, some orders and a little volume at the US-NBT pair).
There's no place with leveraged trading or put options - at least not to my knowledge.
So how can this be a real risk now?

I think it's a lack of responsibility that made people start their client to mint blocks without paying attention to the development.
The slow development over some months might have made them think that it's not important to pay attention.
That's wrong!
Without a protocol update to 4.0 (blocks minted by client versions 4.0.0 and 4.0.1), there's no reputed signer voting, no asset voting, etc.
Trading can't start without switching to 4.0!

People who continue to mint protocol 2.0 blocks (e.g. client release 3.0.2) essentially vote against activating exchange functions at B&C Exchange.
Whuaaaaat?


Title: A call to BKS holders and the aftermath -> A recommendation for BKS holders ;)
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 11, 2016, 03:27:34 PM
Recently I posted "A call to BKS holders" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033773.msg14390504#msg14390504) urging BKS holders to upgrade and configure votes.
It seems the client (or the network) doesn't like e.g. asset votes in blocks before the protocol was switched to 4.0

If you encounter problems minting blocks with the client version 4.0.1, please remove all asset votes.
If you have registered a data feed from @Cybnate or @cryptog, you can wait until the data feed providers fixed it (one of two already did, although the finding is only a few hours old), or unsubscribe from the data feeds and reset the votes manually.

Short version:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/mandatory-upgrade-all-minters-need-to-upgrade-to-b-c-exchange-4-0-1/3723/129

For a long version begin reading here:
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/mandatory-upgrade-all-minters-need-to-upgrade-to-b-c-exchange-4-0-1/3723/90


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on April 12, 2016, 12:03:03 AM
Very interesting.

What options are there to distribute dividends with other currencies (say maybe Nubits or something like Grantcoin) while still retaining the network effects? Or will this require a fork, with all the associated dilution.


Simplicity is compelling in a protocol. For that reason we expect shareholders will continue to only authorize Bitcoin dividends because it is the most liquid cryptoasset available. Liquidity preserves dividend value transfer to shareholders.

Once dividends are distributed, shareholders can easily convert Bitcoin to their preferred cryptocurrencies/cryptoequities.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: hozer on April 16, 2016, 04:54:18 AM
What options are there to distribute dividends with other currencies (say maybe Nubits or something like Grantcoin) while still retaining the network effects? Or will this require a fork, with all the associated dilution.
The dividend distribution is coded in the client, but a software fork to support additional currencies doesn't lead to dilution; it would merely be a new client release with a new feature.
As far as I understand the dividend addresses (public keys) get derived from the BKS private keys.
At a snapshot date, a distribution to the dividend addresses takes place.
Introducing additional/alternative dividend types isn't even a protocol update - you just need a client to distribute dividends and a client to generate the dividend addresses.

There also seems to be a risk of financial engineering a 'short' outside the BKS/BKC/etc system in which it becomes profitable to acquire, and then vote against the self-interest of the acquired crypto asset. It is either this, or a lack of patience that seems to be resulting in the long time it's taking to get enough clients upgraded (and voting for) the 4.0 protocol.

While this risk is theoretically exisiting, I have a hard time seeing a relation between it and the upgrading apathy.
BKC don't exist. Not a single one has been created so far,
There's currently only one place that trades BKS: CCEDK (BTC (https://www.ccedk.com/bks-btc) and US-NBT (https://www.ccedk.com/bks-usnbt) pair; almost no orders an no volume at the BTC pair, some orders and a little volume at the US-NBT pair).
There's no place with leveraged trading or put options - at least not to my knowledge.
So how can this be a real risk now?

I think it's a lack of responsibility that made people start their client to mint blocks without paying attention to the development.
The slow development over some months might have made them think that it's not important to pay attention.
That's wrong!
Without a protocol update to 4.0 (blocks minted by client versions 4.0.0 and 4.0.1), there's no reputed signer voting, no asset voting, etc.
Trading can't start without switching to 4.0!

People who continue to mint protocol 2.0 blocks (e.g. client release 3.0.2) essentially vote against activating exchange functions at B&C Exchange.
Whuaaaaat?


Most likely, it's just folks who set up the client and forgot about it, or maybe even some that actively sell what they are minting.

What might be the estimated economic cost (in dollars, or nubits) to buy sufficient BKS on the open market to put us over 90%, or is that effectively impossible?

It may also be worth some discussion on if there are attacks that could be conducted on the network to either block an upgrade, or force an upgrade.

At the end of the day though, the code and the concept may be perfectly fine but if you ended up with a subset of BKS shareholders who don't understand what it's really worth to upgrade, the choice of shareholders may be the cause for failure. Plenty of promising startups with good technology have failed because some shareholders don't get it. This problem is worse with more evenly distributed ownership structures like co-ops, and blockchain-based DACs are going to have the same social problems.

There are also plenty of people who might think a distributed blockchain-based DAC that supports trading is a substantial risk to their other investments, and buy shares for no other reason than to block or delay the deployment. All the existing centralized exchanges, for instance, have a financial incentive to block competitors.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: BCExchange on April 16, 2016, 05:14:31 AM
Several options are being proposed to speed up the upgrade of B&C Exchange. Architect Jordan Lee and others present their proposals here: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/proposal-to-speed-adoption-of-the-reputation-system/3785

We have many powerful options at our disposal and we are confident shareholders will select an option that allows the upgrade to proceed safely and efficiently.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: hozer on April 16, 2016, 06:19:35 PM
Several options are being proposed to speed up the upgrade of B&C Exchange. Architect Jordan Lee and others present their proposals here: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/proposal-to-speed-adoption-of-the-reputation-system/3785

We have many powerful options at our disposal and we are confident shareholders will select an option that allows the upgrade to proceed safely and efficiently.

To quote Jordan:
Quote
It has been 30 days since we released B&C Exchange 4.0, but only 47% of network minting power has upgraded. To effect the protocol change that will allow us to use the reputation system requires a 90% adoption rate. Given that the adoption rate is rising only very slowly, it is likely that it would take months to reach the switch threshold of 90%. It is important that we move forward with adoption of the reputation system more quickly so we can prepare for the full release of B&C Exchange.

To which I would respond with:

Slow the fuck down. No serious exchange unilaterally changes the whole system on 30 days notice. I'm not talking about bitcoin exchanges, which I don't (yet) consider completely serious. I'm talking about exchanges like chicago board of trade, the new york stock exchange, and the dalian exchange.

Okay, maybe the dalian exchange gets capital controls instituted on short notice, but then again I don't trade there.

These are your competitors. If it's been *60* days and still been no substantial growth in the protocol adoption, then maybe its time to consider some of these proposals. If it gets to *90* days then start talking about more drastic things like buying back all 'old' legacy shares and exchanging them for an entirely new blockchain that starts out at protocol version 5.

Relax a little. Contact all the original crowdsale buyers. If you can't contact them because all you have is an email and a bitcoin address, then maybe you might want to consider that running a business with shareholders without having multiple contact methods for your shareholders might be a bad idea.

I'd appreciate this if someone could repost this to the nubits.com form, or let me know if there's a reddit forum. While I do have a business critical need to be able to market commodities using distributed blockchain based exchanges, I don't have the time and the patience to track every single forum.

Or just estimate how much the price would have to go up to acquire enough shares to vote for the upgrade. It might be a good investment. But if you are going to throw out the contract you layed out for 90% consensus for upgrading, then slow down a little, and make sure you know what both the legal and ethical implications of such a change will be.


Title: Re: [ANN] B&C Exchange - A decentralized exchange paying BTC dividends
Post by: Yefet on April 16, 2016, 06:28:16 PM
Several options are being proposed to speed up the upgrade of B&C Exchange. Architect Jordan Lee and others present their proposals here: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/proposal-to-speed-adoption-of-the-reputation-system/3785

We have many powerful options at our disposal and we are confident shareholders will select an option that allows the upgrade to proceed safely and efficiently.

To quote Jordan:
Quote
It has been 30 days since we released B&C Exchange 4.0, but only 47% of network minting power has upgraded. To effect the protocol change that will allow us to use the reputation system requires a 90% adoption rate. Given that the adoption rate is rising only very slowly, it is likely that it would take months to reach the switch threshold of 90%. It is important that we move forward with adoption of the reputation system more quickly so we can prepare for the full release of B&C Exchange.

To which I would respond with:

Slow the fuck down. No serious exchange unilaterally changes the whole system on 30 days notice. I'm not talking about bitcoin exchanges, which I don't (yet) consider completely serious. I'm talking about exchanges like chicago board of trade, the new york stock exchange, and the dalian exchange.

Okay, maybe the dalian exchange gets capital controls instituted on short notice, but then again I don't trade there.

These are your competitors. If it's been *60* days and still been no substantial growth in the protocol adoption, then maybe its time to consider some of these proposals. If it gets to *90* days then start talking about more drastic things like buying back all 'old' legacy shares and exchanging them for an entirely new blockchain that starts out at protocol version 5.

Relax a little. Contact all the original crowdsale buyers. If you can't contact them because all you have is an email and a bitcoin address, then maybe you might want to consider that running a business with shareholders without having multiple contact methods for your shareholders might be a bad idea.

I'd appreciate this if someone could repost this to the nubits.com form, or let me know if there's a reddit forum. While I do have a business critical need to be able to market commodities using distributed blockchain based exchanges, I don't have the time and the patience to track every single forum.

Or just estimate how much the price would have to go up to acquire enough shares to vote for the upgrade. It might be a good investment. But if you are going to throw out the contract you layed out for 90% consensus for upgrading, then slow down a little, and make sure you know what both the legal and ethical implications of such a change will be.

reposted


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: BCExchange on April 17, 2016, 08:57:52 PM
We have updated our thread title to capture the attention of users.

All shareholders are reminded that they must upgrade to version 4.0 immediately. The protocol switch date will be two weeks after 90% of blocks are minted with 4.0.0 or 4.0.1.

Visit bcexchange.org (https://bcexchange.org) to download 4.0.1 for Windows and Linux or use the links below. Mac OSX builds will arrive in the near future.

Windows: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-win-gitian.zip

Linux: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-linux-gitian.zip


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: sabreiib on April 18, 2016, 07:28:05 AM
We have updated our thread title to capture the attention of users.

All shareholders are reminded that they must upgrade to version 4.0 immediately. The protocol switch date will be two weeks after 90% of blocks are minted with 4.0.0 or 4.0.1.

Visit bcexchange.org (https://bcexchange.org) to download 4.0.1 for Windows and Linux or use the links below. Mac OSX builds will arrive in the near future.

Windows: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-win-gitian.zip

Linux: https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/downloads/bcexchange-4.0.1-linux-gitian.zip


Release the Mac OSX version ASAP, please.


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 19, 2016, 03:16:02 AM
Release the Mac OSX version ASAP, please.

Sabreiib said he knows a large BKS holder that needs the OS X version to upgrade.


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: BCExchange on April 21, 2016, 04:43:31 AM
We are discussing best ways of speeding up the release of a MacOSX client. We appreciate everyone's patience.

In other news, Jordan Lee has raised a discussion about Voting for Default Data Feed Providers: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-for-default-data-feed-providers/3802

Quote
In thinking about how to set up an election for default data providers, I start from the point that what we need in the client is a list of data feed providers, along with URLs, signature URLs, address and the percentage of the votes the provider received.

To derive the percentage of votes for each provider I suggest that all data feed providers submit a motion that represents their candidacy to be a default data provider. It might say something like this:

Voting for this motion will increase the probability that provider A will be chosen as a default data feed provider upon a specific installation of B&C Exchange version 5. This represents the candidacy of provider A to become a default data feed provider.

While data feed providers will likely want to say why shareholders should vote for them, that shouldn't be a part of the motion in my opinion.

The date at which votes should begin to be counted will be April 25th UTC. This means @Cybnate, @Cryptog, @crypto_coiner and any other candidate will need to post their motion well in advance of that so it can be added to clients and data feeds. And yes, of course each data feed provider will vote for itself and no other. That works to accurately reflect the real popularity of each feed. Voting will end when the 5.0 release is otherwise code complete. A minimum of 5000 blocks and a maximum of 20000 blocks of votes will be counted, starting on April 25th. Individual shareholders may vote for none, one, some or all of the competing default data feed motions.

A hypothetical example will clarify how votes are to be counted:

The release is code complete except for the default data feed voting results 12,000 blocks after the start of April 25th. Within those 12,000 blocks, provider A received 6000 votes while provider B received 4000 votes for their respective motions. This means that 60% of the time running through the client install, provider A will be selected as the default data feed provider while the other 40% of the time provider B would be selected initially by default.

Any data feed provider who receives even a single vote will be included in the 5.0 release as a default data provider.

For any release that occurs more than 90 days from the release of 5.0, a new vote will be held for default data feed providers.


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: hozer on April 21, 2016, 02:57:42 PM
We are discussing best ways of speeding up the release of a MacOSX client. We appreciate everyone's patience.


Are there more issues that are not in this list:
https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/issues?q=OS+x

Please update the bitbucket so I can track progress, and estimate how many hours it might take me to solve it.

The fastest way to speed up the MacOSX client release is allocate some cash (or NuBits) to pay a contractor to fix it. It does seem to me that worrying about the 90% network consensus without having a Mac client seems like the priorities are mis-allocated. If you are having trouble with multi-platform support maybe consider building for Linux only and distributing an embedded-linux based Virtualbox VM image so you only have one binary to worry about.

I'd be willing to look into either one of these options at no charge if we can work out a way to add an option to pay dividends in and allow trading with Grantcoin.


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 22, 2016, 03:53:43 PM
For anyone who is a BlockShareholder and following this thread, please make sure you also follow the B&C Exchange sub category on the Nu forum as well, as many other topics are discussed there...

https://discuss.nubits.com/c/b-c-exchange

As you can see, 3 people have now applied to become default data feed providers. If you are currently using a data feed, know that your feed provider cannot vote for other providers who have applied. Therefore, if you wish to vote for more default providers than the one you are already subscribed to, you will need to uncheck the motions category of your data feed and then vote for each default provider manually. If you don't uncheck that category, then your current feed settings will override any motions you try to add. Once voting for default feeds is done, just make sure to check the motions category again. Here are the applications so far...

- Cybnate (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-cybnates-motion-to-apply-as-default-datafeed-provider-for-b-c/3803)
- Cryptog (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-cryptogs-motion-to-apply-as-default-datafeed-provider-for-b-c/3809)
- MasterOfDisaster (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-masterofdisasters-motion-to-apply-as-default-datafeed-provider-for-b-c/3805)


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: PolishPoly on April 22, 2016, 04:50:48 PM
Is it a working exchange now or still under development?


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: masterOfDisaster on April 24, 2016, 06:39:15 PM
Is it a working exchange now or still under development?

It's still under development.
The next important step is an upgrade of the client version that allows e.g. voting for assets, reputed signers etc.
Enabling the trading can only start after assets and signers are available.
It's only a matter of time.
The exchange will be working soonTM ;)


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: Sentinelrv on April 27, 2016, 08:16:24 PM
Just in case you didn't realize, 2 more people applied to become default data feed providers, Crypto_Coiner and Nagalim, so now we have 5 applicants. Remember that if you already rely on an existing data feed, that you will not be able to vote for any of the new applicants because your current data feed will override any motions you manually add in. You will first need to uncheck the motions field on your data feed, then manually enter in the motions for which default feeds you want to support, whether it's only a couple or all of them.

The following are the 5 applicants and their associated motions...

- Cybnate (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-cybnates-motion-to-apply-as-default-datafeed-provider-for-b-c/3803)
- Cryptog (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-cryptogs-motion-to-apply-as-default-datafeed-provider-for-b-c/3809)
- MasterOfDisaster (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-masterofdisasters-motion-to-apply-as-default-datafeed-provider-for-b-c/3805)
- Nagalim (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-default-bce-datafeed-nagalim/3822)
- Crypto_Coiner (https://discuss.nubits.com/t/voting-crypto-coiner-s-motion-to-apply-as-default-datafeed-provider-for-b-c/3817)


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: NuCoinGame on May 07, 2016, 09:29:38 AM
Quick updates:

  • We're testing the default datafeed implementation which appears to be going well so far.
  • We has relaunched testnet with modifications that make it perform closer to mainnet. We'll be using it to test the trading messages (https://bitbucket.org/JordanLeePeershares/bcexchange/pull-requests/44/trade-msgs/diff) soon
  • We're still discussing how to best approach the OSX releases


Title: Re: **MANDATORY UPGRADE REQUIRED** [ANN] B&C Exchange - All users must upgrade
Post by: BCExchange on May 09, 2016, 11:43:13 PM
Update from Jordan Lee: https://discuss.nubits.com/t/proposal-to-speed-adoption-of-the-reputation-system/3785/36

Quote
At the request of sigmike I would like to make a modification to the B&C 5.0 specifications, which are described in the original post.

There has been discussion around adding the capability to abstain from voting when minting for a long time, going back to at least December 2014 when woodstockmerkle wrote about the possibility.

I have been wary of any solution that would require shareholders to actively and specifically vote no on a grant or motion to prevent its passage. There is, however, a limited manner in which abstentions can be employed without creating a situation where "no" voting is a necessity. Rather than set default data feed providers, I am persuaded that simply setting the default voting behavior on a new install to abstain is the best course of action to address the noise that comes from apathetic voting. We can do this with a simple check box labeled "Abstain" located to the right of the voting buttons on the Voting tab.

Blocks found by abstaining minters simply won't count when deciding whether a motion or grant has pas