Bitcoin Forum

Just wondering.

We've heard a lot about the iPhone 5 coming up. Current iPhone sales are reportedly down because people are holding out for the new one (also take into account the largely aesthetic changes in the 4S, which many weren't really satisfied with).

Do you think some people might cash out of Bitcoins to buy the new iPhone? It's interesting economically because it's about human behavior, and it might have an effect on the exchange rate - however I'll be the first one to admit that if there is any change, it'll be exceedingly small.

Most users in the USA buy the phone subsidized for $199 16gb or $299 32gb.  We then sell our old one for nearly as much or even more.  With AT&T now unlocking phones for customers in good standing (under conditions) the price for the old phone is pretty high. 

Right now a 4 16gb (not a 4s) is going for about $320 unlocked on ebay.  After the new phone comes out that will drop, probably to $250 as more people are selling.  A 4s is going for even more.  So if I sold my 4 after the new one comes out I can cash IN to bitcoin with my profits not out.  On top of that I have a 50/50 odds of selling my old phone for bitcoin directly.   

Good points. The 'cash 4 iPhone' business is less pronounced in Europe.

What's an iPhone? Ohh you mean that censor-ful device?


One example:
http://www.zdnet.com/apple-patent-could-remotely-disable-protesters-phone-cameras-7000003640/

Many others http://bit.ly/w4dQNi

Due to Apple censoring the Blockchain app therefore I am seriously considering boycotting the iPhone and going with a more open solution.

I'm totally boycotting apple for other reasons.

Not your topic, Linux fanboy.

I do the same (as Littleshop mentioned), though I'll probably have to skip this generation, as my contract renewal won't be for another year.  But I always sell my old iPhone, buy the latest one, and it about evens out.  Sometimes I have to add $25 or so.  I never buy a phone without the contract renewal discount, and it baffles me that people will pay $700-$800 for a phone instead of waiting until their contract is up and taking a 75% discount on that number.

Not a Linux fanboy at all. Just a part-time realist.

Its back on the app store:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105575.0

:)

In the UK the phone is usually very cheap, with the right contract.  You are simply buying the phone but on credit, over a year or 2 year period.  However, I dont think this will have any impact whatsoever on the value or price of BTC.

I didn't want to get too offtopic but I guess it comes with the territory.

How linked is iPhone to the typical Bitcoin user anyway? How likely does a Bitcoin trader have an iPhone?

I've always thought perhaps Apple isn't well suited to the kind of user that uses Bitcoin anyway but am I making an assumption here?

iOS to me makes me think more of ease of use. Android is much better now but I still have that association of iOS as easy and reliable and Android as more potential but takes work to get to a good state.

For example, I use a Galaxy S1. I paid just £90 and probably available cheaper yet it runs JellyBean and that took work to do. I don't feel the need to get an iPhone.
The difference here is that I am able to cheat the system this way, that's the whole reason I have the phone.

I get the impression of more control on Android. Is that impression well informed though? On my Droid I have a permissions app and a iptables based firewall app. I also have all the hacker based resources to choose from but of course choosing a ROM is a part of it I which was more straightforward.

Because of all ^ this I tend to think that iOS keeps all the permissions stuff silent instead, especially after hearing about the location logging thing and previously pulling Bitcoin apps from the store. So I tend to think that iOS just paints over all the problems, but is this assumption well founded? One thing I like about iPhone is the consistency but one thing I like about some android devices is the custom ROM hacking that allows a LOT more milage for the money such that I tend to think an Android device is more future proof than an iPhone but is that an assumption too in that an iPhone is more uniform so more supported in the future (look at iPhone3 android ports as an example).

Bitcoin users in the Apple vs Google faceoff I think might be interested in the following questions which I've never seen addressed sufficiently in any comparison (good example: http://gizmodo.com/5921789/android-jelly-bean-vs-ios-6-vs-windows-phone-8-the-ultimate-ultimate-comparison ) review which are:

- which is more future proof (Android for hackability or iPhone for consistency?)
- which has the better security model now we have JellyBean?

There must be a poll here somewhere asking people about what phone they have? Perhaps I should start one if we can't find one

Garr, could you elaborate on why you are boycotting Apple? I'm just curious.

Thanks.

am I the only one still using the iphone 2g?

i haven't even updated it in like 4 years

YOU ARE NOT A GOOD CONSUMER! The ghost of Steve Jobs is mightily angry.

While the exchange rate is so dependent on speculation it is extremely vulnerable to effects like you mention.

who buys an iPhone here? anyone that is even slightly technical, would avoid the iPhone like a plague.

Meh.  Just get a google galaxy nexus.

Open support for apps (including MtGox trading app, blockchain.info, android spinner, and more).

I mean android has grown up a lot.  I just don't see why any bitcoin user will willingly choose a locked down product by a company who is outright hostile toward Bitcoin.  I mean Apple's market share and attacks on Bitcoin are a real threat to the expansion of Bitcoin in the mobile market.  Users who choose that platform simply make Apple more powerful and their attacks against Bitcoin more effective.

???

http://androidspin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Samsung-Galaxy-Nexus.jpeg

Nope .... i bought it and will by the 5. at launch date!... Still simply the best smartphone u can get for your money (with all the downsides, censorship and whatsoever people might believe apple is doing ..... ---> People thought MS is always calling home ..... an so forth. I think they need to see a devil everywhere ...)

If u re tecnikal and u dont like apple , just get a jailbreak and stop complaining about stuff that apple "might" do or has done :P

Blockchain runs fine with JB .... i don't see the point not using the iPhone? (there is a good point about not using online wallets at all ....")

just my two bitcents :)

+1

One of the reasons I am taking a very close look at the Samsung Galaxy s3 is because Apple is suing to get this phone taken of the market.

ACTUALLY! The Iphone 5 more than likely will not be coming out. In case you guys hadn't heard, a while ago the Iphone 5 Specs got leaked, and a Chinese Knockoff company named GooPhone took the Iphone 5 design and Specs, built it, and then patented it.

Introducing the Goophone i5 http://android-sale.com/goophone-i5.html

Its actually quite cheap, ($275-$300) and runs Android

Specs? Nvidia Tegra 3 quad-core 1.4GHz processor, 1GB RAM, an 8-megapixel camera as well as a 4-inch display with a resolution of 1,280 x 720 pixels.

perhaps even funnier is, Goophone made an official statement to apple, saying if they release the Iphone 5, goophone will sue them

http://asia.cnet.com/goophone-i5-manufacturers-want-to-sue-apple-when-iphone-launches-62218590.htm

That conclusion is just silly.

The iPhone uses a custom processor.  So the company patents a phone based on prior work of Apple, which contains none of the components of the iPhone and you honestly thing this two bit nothing company will keep Apple from launching their product.  As much as I hate Apple for closed systems they have on the most impressive legal departments in the world.  Apple probably spends more on lawyers in a year than "GooPhone" takes in annual sales.

Iphone is the best battery lasting phone I ever had (and I had over 10). But be carefull MTGOX users about the 5.1.1 ios given mtgox 3.14 is yet not compatible. BTW is anyone whats the iphone to be factory unlocked just PM me I did it over 3 locked Iphones and EXCELENT RESULTS!!!.

Yet another reason to not give these sheep herders a bitcent.  Thanks!

The grown ups, that run businesses, and furnish employees with tools that get that job done and integrate painlessly with their technology stack.

Your opinion is all well and nice but don't confuse it with fact.

Sounds enterprisey! 

I think I'm done with iPhone. The new competition is getting better every day, and  locked phones are worth very little to me.

Heh its distinctly not (yet?). I think I might have got carried away with the words there ;)

While off topic, I do want to point out that this isn't always the case. You are right, you get a $660 iPhone (tax included) for $230 (activation fee included) but you now have a 2 year contract. If you are on a single account, you almost likely paid well over the difference in two years by not buying the phone outright and going the prepaid route. Here is the breakdown:

Prepaid route - I use Straight Talk which is an at&t MVNO, unlimited talk and text, 2GB data (it says unlimited but you get heavily throttled at 2GB).
Buy phone $660
Monthly prepaid $45 * 24 months = $1,080
Total "prepaid" paid in 2 years = $1,740
If you use a lot less minutes, T-Mobile has a $30 monthly plan so you only pay $720 for phone service or $1,380 for 2 years.

Contract route - I'm using at&t and choosing the cheapest plan of 450 minutes ($59.99), no text, $30 3GB data plan
Buy subsidized phone $230
Monthly contract payment $90 * 24 months = $2,160
Total "contract" paid in 2 years  = $2,390
That's $650 more over the course of your contract, and that includes no text messaging which would add $480 to the contract. You also would have to pay a hefty ETF if you wanted to end your contract early. This is why I dropped the at&t contract game because I am saving more money now than having at&t "help me out" prior to this. As for what you are giving up for this "savings," you do lose at&t customer support so I deal with Straight Talk instead which I haven't had problems with albeit I only called at&t 2-3 times before int he 5-7 years I used them. I still use the at&t network too, and yes, at&t gets a cut of the profit from Straight Talk so they win out too.

The only time it really works out in your favor is if you are running a family plan with 4+ phones where you can add a line for $10, or are not running smartphones and don't need data. Bottom line, if the carrier wouldn't be making more money subsidizing phones, they sure as hell would not be subsidizing phones.

Raralith, what is an AT&T MVNO?  Call me intrigued.  I've only been fine with being locked in a contract because I've never had a reason to switch.  All the cheaper companies are cheaper for a reason (worse service).  If MVNO is some acronym for a company that uses AT&T's network, but is cheaper, then I'll definitely check in to it.

Right now, my contract is about $80/month (base $50 + $30 for 3GB data).  I don't pay for texting, since I can do it for free through my data plan.  Add my wife's phone (base $10 + $25 for 2GB data), and it's about $115/month, + all those garbage nickel-and-dime-ya fees.

@ D&T - As to WHY I chose the iPhone... well, I used to like to fiddle with electronics.  I'd modify everything I could on my phone, overclock my computers, etc.  Then I got older, and I stopped enjoying fiddling, and more just wanted a device that worked all the time.  I suppose it mostly has to do with me having very little time to fiddle anymore.  So, yes, while I agree that an Android device is very well suited to someone who loves to fiddle, I can't say that they are well suited to someone who doesn't.  I haven't tried one myself, mind you, but I've asked MANY android owners about it, and none of them recommended me anything but the iPhone if I wanted something that "just works" all the time.

Certainly, Apple's stance on Bitcoin apps has swayed me a bit, but I also have a vested interest in staying on the iPhone if for no other reason than compatibility with my family.  Both of my sisters and their husbands have iPhones, my mom does as well, and a few other relatives.  I can text all of them for free using the built-in app.  Videos, pictures, etc.  Also, the facetime app... If I got an android phone, while I could still probably use google voice to text, it wouldn't be as convenient, and wouldn't let me text pictures and video, nor use the facetime app with my family.

I'm still not certain what I will do come the next time my contract is up for renewal, but it's likely I'll go the iPhone route again.  It's something that I know, that I have no complaints with (aside from the Bitcoin app issue), and that I really don't have any reason applicable to my usage to switch to anything else.

I think the Galaxy Nexus (OS codenamed "Jelly Bean") will change your mind.  It is the first Android phone that I felt was comparable to iPhone in terms of polish and ease of use.  Honestly I would pay more for one than an iPhone.  I don't fiddle anything.  Popped a prepaid t-mobile sim card in it and downloaded some apps.  Actually since the app store is linked to my google account it downloaded all the apps from my old phone onto this one.

Still if the Nexus doesn't do it Android is catching up fast.  If you compare an Adroid 1.0 device to 4.1.1 device it is night and day.  Each version Android closes the gap more and more.  Honestly I don't think there is a gap anymore but some of it is subjective.   Dual core processor, high resolution screen (higher DPI than retina display without the name), large edge to edge screen, NFC that worked right out of the box (even with blockchain.info wallet app), easy to use UI, smooth/polished graphics, nearly universal app support, etc.  Getting harder and harder to say Android is a hacker device.  

Here's the thread that got me started which has all the details. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1455014

TL;DR version:
MVNO stands for "Mobile Virtual Network Operator." Straight Talk is a MVNO for both AT&T and T-Mobile so they use their respective towers (based on your location) instead of setting up their own towers, buy spectrum, go through the FCC, etc... AT&T sells voice and data at bulk/wholesale rates to Straight Talk which than retails prepaid service to their customers. It's cheap because 1) Straight Talk buys at the bulk/wholesale rate so they get a much better price (think a family plan with 100,000 add on's vs. 100,000 individual plans), 2) they have much smaller customer support staff and hours, and 3) they don't subsidize phones. Pretty much every carrier has MVNO's, some are priced better than others, and there are "tiers" of service. AT&T is more than happy to do this because they are making money from MVNO's, they get a cut from their customers (essentially I am still paying "royalties" at AT&T per say), and they charge MVNO's "fees" that are in the 5-6 figure range.

My wife and I left AT&T with our $130 contract, 2 iPhones on the grandfathered unlimited data plan, and text for her to a pair of $45 unlimited Straight Talk plans. We save $40/month * 24 months = 960 which is a fraction better than the subsidized savings of $860. The added benefit though is that we can sell our unlocked phones anytime we want and buy a new one without a prorated $350 ETF, and an iPhone 4S is worth more 1 year than it is 2 years so I can easily sell my "old" phone and use it as a down payment for a new phone. Overall, it's pretty damn sweet and I am very happy.

Who cares.  Its shiny and I want one (if they are ever released).

That does indeed sound slick!  I'm going to definitely check in to that next time my contract is up before I renew.

i'll give a plug for the Samsung Galaxy S3.  its awesome.

Anyone else interpret today's iPhone 5 announcement as Apple admitting that their streak of innovation in the phone space is over?

Yayyy!!! 176 more vertical pixels!! A 5th row of icons!! Yeah, 1136x640 is still far less than my HTC EVO LTE's 1280x720.

Apple better have something up their sleeve wrt the TV space, else they'll just bleed market share for years until they're back to the Apple Inc of the '90s.


tl;dr: No, people aren't going to cash out of btc in any measurable amount due to the iPhone-5.

I am more excited about the ipod touch 5. It provides much more bang for your buck.

Read More
http://www.theonion.com/articles/apple-announces-new-iphone-with-nword-on-back-know,29531/

hehe. you gotta love onion news:

Apple's going to sue anyone running blockchain app on Ios for copyright infringement... They invented bitcoin... Just like they invented ALL the features that they are suing over.  They are also in the process of suing me for using multiple ellipses in one post... They invented that, also.
</troll>

I'd like for someone to please explain how an Android device doesn't "just work" right out of the box? That's the big argument? My Galaxy S2 worked within minutes of unpacking it, no problems at all (just like an iphone). It's like buying a car. With Apple, you have your car, it drives fine and looks just like everyone elses, and while it's pretty and shiny it looks like everyone else's iCar.  If Android made a car, you could drive it out of the box just like Apple's, but you could also customize it and it would look and operate differently than everyone else's car - but - you don't have to. If you like your stock interface, be it stock Android, TouchWiz, HTC Sense, motoBlur (whatever Verizon's is..) it doesn't matter just leave it and have fun. If you want to root your phone and install a custom ROM you have that option.

Hearing some people talk you need an advanced java programming book just to get a Android device to turn on properly  ::)