Bitcoin Forum

Hello there! I am new to the whole bitcoin universe and I've informed myself quite a bit about the currency, what I would like to know is that is it worth investing now in a ASIC rig?

I'd like some help to choose the best ASIC rig to mine and make the best possible profits asap.

Also I'd like to know that is luck a factor with mining coins? You can generate a block or coin and make more money than usual? I'd like some explanation on that.


Thank you for your help guys!

There's is luck involved because you can't really know who gets the reward but it can be calculated as expected monthly gains, you need to know the hashing power of the machine you will buy, the current difficulty, and the electricity costs in your area, with these variables you can get a estimate.

I see, so let's say I have some luck then I can exceed my expected monthly gains?

I'm waiting for you guys opinions on what should I get (ASIC rig). My budget is 400$+

This.

Once you've got the values of these factors, you can make a calculation about your actual costs and income. I don't know what you pay for electricity in your area, but as you also still have to buy the equiptment I don't think you should reach a ROI soon..  Maybe in the future, once the Bitcoin has gained much more value. (For example, when it hits the $1000 again, it might not be a problem to pay $0.50 per KwH now (EXAMPLE!) instead of the current $0.20 now (EXAMPLE!).

However, I do not recommend anyone to start mining nowadays. (Investing directly in the Bitcoin might be more efficient). But no one can tell you what the future is going to be of Bitcoin (and thus what is a wise decision now).

The major limiting factor for mining is the cost of electricity.  Where I live I pay ~15 cents plus it is tiered.  The more I use the more expensive it gets.  For me it would not make any money at the current bitcoin price.  Also consider that there is very likely new equipment coming out soon.  I don't really know what the prices, power, and efficiency will be for the next generation miners.  But if you are in the market it might be worth while to wait a month or two and then buy used equipment at a discount when the new stuff comes out.

If your electricity is cheap enough and you get some gear, look into mining pools.  From what I read when I was considering mining, pools seem to be the best way for a small miner to earn.

If your electricity is too expensive then you can look into antpool and hashnest.  These are run by bitmain.  Basically you can buy hardware and have Bitmain run it for you in one of their warehouses.  You pay maintenance fees and electricity fees, but you can still make money doing it this way and it might be better than mining at home.

Good luck.

Unless you have cheap or free electricity, hardware mining is not gonna be profitable. Especially if you can not find a buyer of your hardware after one year or so. Calculate the expected ROI at https://alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

Thank you for the answer guys, I was planning the SP20 Jackson. (Which costs around 450$).

It mines at around 1.7 th/s, I could make an average of $128.72 per month so paying the equipment off wouldn't be too long and profits would kick in pretty soon, don't you think so??

Calculate what would be your electricity cost to earn that 128.72 USD per month.

Mining can be fun, but it's not the best way to ensure constant profit. I'd rather put that $450 towards buying some bitcoin. The mining world is constantly changing with mining hardware and difficulty. What you calculate as profit today could be very different in a month or two.

i wouldn't invest in an asic miner now but on thursday i would consider doing so

To cover some of your energy costs you could consider a hedge against your mining activities. Buy futures in energy or (for an easier play) buy some shares of a Natural Gas commodity mutual fund. As we approach Summery, the price of natural gas will likely decrease and then increase in the winter. This small investment play could offset your actual energy cost increase due to the mining activities.

Have fun, mining for bitcoin sounds might cool. Better to get into it now while the award is 25 btc, before the halving next year.

Since you just started playing with bitcoin, personally, I would hold off a bit and study about mining before you decide to make the investment.  Good luck with your new hobby.  :)

so what your suggestion? where is a good place to invest

If you absolutely need to get rid of that fiat than just buy some bitcoins and invest in yourself by learning about this technology and investing in your education.
Any other investment is likely going to be riskier than bitcoin and bitcoin is risky enough as is.

Avoid mining until companies like 21 start coming out with consumer mining routers and IOT devices.

No. To get started with profits, you need to get a huge bankroll and landspace. Without either of them, profit isn't possible. Luck is one of the main factor in finding a block. If you have huge luck, you can even find a block using a block erupter.

Since the exchange rates are low, many of the major players have opted out of mining. This has eased the competition in that sector. Bitcoin mining is still not profitable for small players. But you don't need to worry about that. When the exchange rates move up again, you will earn hefty profits. The only thing to remember is to not sell all of your coins now, at this exchange rate.

Wouldn't it be a better choice to buy Bitcoins directly? Bitcoin difficulty has slowed down quite a bit but it is still quite high for home miners. You are bound to lose some money if you mine instead of buy Bitcoins when the rates go up. Mining companies ship ASICs slowly too.

dont mine BTC . learn more about bitcoin before you make investments.

Yeah, this way, you can lose money far more efficiently.  If you just buy an ASIC, you'll be way too close to break-even; it will seem like you are watching paint dry.  With 21 hardware, you'll really know you are losing money as the losses will be far more difficult to overlook.  21 readily admits their devices WON'T BE PROFITABLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE - but that they will be 'educational'. yeah, you're going to get a lesson alright.

Just buy a Spondoolies or Antminer, steal electricity from the power pole on the street, pray you don't start a fire, and watch as you bring in about .0001 bitcoin per week.  Wow!!!  That's living large!!!

Mining is done.  

abolutely worth, it, notice how the price is slowly climbing again, in the worst case you ca just short in the usual rande of 250-230

maybe don't invest everything you have bust start with a small amout, and increase it everytime the price rise a little

I agree with most here.  I think the BTC price is pretty low but this could actually be a solid base.  But you don't want to be on the sidelines win the next big news comes out and you're sitting there thinking of all the things you could have done to start accumulating bitcoin.  Welcome to the scene and good luck to you.

This thread should be belong to the Mining forum which is located here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=14.0). As for your question, mining Bitcoin now is not really profitable. However, it all really depend on your location and luck. If the place you are mining in have low electricity fees, than it might worth mining Bitcoin. If it is not, you will not be able to get back your money.

Just like the others said there are several factors that determine whether bitcoin mining is still  profitable or not. These include the cost of the electricity to power the  system, the availability and price of the rigs, and the difficulty. Also time is a factor. How long do you wish to spend and is it worth it spending those time mining?  Right now i don't think it's profitable to mine bitcoins.
See if you are willing to lay out the necessary investment for the hardware, and estimate the future value of bitcoins as well as the level of difficulty. When both bitcoin prices and mining difficulty falls, it usually shows that fewer miners and more ease in receiving bitcoins.

You can check about mining hardware comparison here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
invest your bitcoin now and you can see in the next year ;)
also you can find about mining here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=14.0


~iki

I think it is a good time to invest. Just don't put money in mining.

It is too soon to judge without the specs , but a free router that was slowly paid for with electricity over 2-3 years , with added functionality and helped decentralize mining would be worthwhile investment IMHO. Investing is sometimes about money , and sometimes about our future of our ecosystem and if one were wise we would realize those don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I do agree, however, this topic is really about whether ASICS are worth investing money in; whether they can make a profit.

If you do not live in a country with very few energy costs (or in a situation with "free energy"), I don't think mining will be profitable for you soon. Especially not if you still have to buy the devices. However, like I said before, I'm talking about the current situation. If the Bitcoin hits the $10.000 next year, it would have been very profitable to mine nowadays, although then you might be better of by buying the BTC now in that situation.

Mining could be done as if you are buying bitcoin slowly (after the initial machine purchase).
Essentially (after initial expenses), you will be buying bitcoin cheaply: using SP20 at low power settings-mining at 1.2Th (~640w) will result in ~0.36 BTC/mo with electricity cost of ~$50 (at $0.1/kw), so you are basically paying $139/mined BTC for now. Just don't sell mined bitcoin and use cash instead to pay the electricity bill.
The final numbers/btc will be higher because you will be able to sell SP20 or S5 only for some % of the initial price. In ~6-7 mo you are likely to mine ~2 BTC, which  is a lot IF bitcoin will be very successful as ONLY max 10mil people out of 7bil earthlings will ever have two bitcoins (it reality it is even smaller number due to unequal distribution).

In conclusion: a ~$400-450 initial outlay and mining effort for 6-7 mo might result in you being among top 0.15% or earthlings as far as their bitcoin richness is concerned. It might be something valuable if bitcoin succeeds, and if not, not much harm done as your outlay is relatively small.

Great calculations Biodom!

However, I'm not sure whether much people are able to pay $0.1 per kwh.  I think dollar, I have to pay about $0.3..

- -

You might also want to look at investing in altcoins. In the last weeks, many altcoins have doubled or tripled in value. I saw my current value of Digitalcoin has doubled since yesterday. (If you were lucky enough to buy some yesterday, you would have 100% profit // 200% ROI in one day. Sure, I know you have to be really lucky to do that. But beware, investing in altcoins is even more dangerous than investing in BTC directly. I think most altcoins are way more volatile.

for sure, they are, just because market cap is usually quite low, so "few guys" with some BTC may completely manipulate exchanges:)

OP: because you are not business and you don't have experience, is better for you just buy directly instead of mine..

Correct. However, this volatility enables you to short-term trade between altcoins. Although this requires some knowledge, experience and luck, this might enable you to make some nice profit. The less volatile the coins are, the less profit or loss you are likely to make with investing in it.

Besides short term investing in altcoins, you might also consider long term investing in altcoins. The history shows that as soon as the Bitcoin is increasing a lot in value, much altcoins increase even (much) more in value. I think we're going to experience this pattern again. However, don't place your bet on 1 horse (as we say in the Netherlands); spread your investments so you won't loose everything if 1 coin dies instead of starts sky-rocketing.

If you  rely only on price movements, better idea is to buy BTC directly. Setting up efficient miner brings some problems to solve, like proper place to manage heat, deliver enough electricity etc. Even if there would be an epic crash on the market, there is much easier to sell BTC than mining gear.

With 1,7TH miner price 450$ and with electricity price 0.03$/kwt (what is Almost free ;D
Calculation of expenses: 1,2 kWt*24 hours*30 days*0.03$=26$ and incomes: 1,7 TH*30 days* 0,009BTC=0,459BTC*250$=115
will hit ROI in about 5-6 month, and thats if you have already a PSU, safe room with internet and without rent.

So if you don't have access to free energy it's better to invest into crypto currencies.
Keep on learning about when the market price is going up and down. Buy on low and sell high. Many gain their money this way.


For example LTC went finally up to the price level it was almost year ago, when BTC costed 450-500$.
And most probable LTC price will continue to grow bcs of the reward decrease for the found block coming soon.

Of course it would be logical if the BTC price would also grow now, corresponding to the network difficulty going up and compensating the decreased of earnings from mining. But actually crypto currencies markets sometimes act unpredicted emotional more then logical.
Most probably BTC price will grow for sure in a year or so)when the reward decrease for the found block will be coming.

So if you are in for the to-the-moon jump you better have a lot of patience and self control))

Mining is just a race against time trying to have some return on hardware investment.
Buy and hold is the way.

That's true. However, I think you should also short-term invest a bit in altcoins. Atleast, if you have the time (and knowledge & experience) to do that.

Short term trading made my total worth of cryptocurrency in BTC or dollar / Euro increase a lot. Even when you make small profits, you can use these to re-invest.

might actually just be a better idea to wait and see what will actually happen with the fork ?

The decision to wait (for whatever reason) or not can only be evaluated at the end.. It might be a great decision now to wait with buying Bitcoins yet, as the value might be -50$ in a week for example. But, the value might also increase. Whether or not you should invest now (or wait), is a bit like gambling I think. (Although some knowledge is usefull).

Just as predicted Litecoin keeps growing :D hope very much it will hit the 10$ mark soon :)

BTC price is so low that you are just as likely to make dollar profits buying BTC right now as buying miners.

It's not that simply, you never know what the price is going to do. Currently we're at $268 I see. That's an increase of almost $40 in one month, so yes, it was worth buying BTC one month ago. Honestly I expect an increase of the value. Especially because of the troubles with the Euro and Greece now. I'll keep stacking for now ;).

(I think it's wiser to invest in BTC than in gambling or lotto tickets now).

it was expected, the halving is approaching, it can not go down, and it still look like a good investments, better than wasting money in mining equipment that will never roi

we should wait for new harware to be produced and then is the time to invest

Mining is very competitive.  It is only profitable for those with access to the most efficient equipment and resources at the most competitive prices.

If one has enough patience to wait for crypto currency waves, its obvious to invest in coins and earn on the ups&downs of the price.
At the moment BTC, LTC and others are very high and may go even higher. But nobody knows how long they will be so high)
Buy low and sell high is here the main rule if you dont go for the long term coin investments.
Anyway mining is a very delicate occupation costs a lot of time and resources.

Most here will say it isn't profitable, but it really depends on where you are (i.e. electricity costs) and what you are willing to risk.

It is true there are a lot that bash mining at this point.  But if you have low priced electricity you can still make profits.  I am, and I know others are.

And the nice thing is when price goes up all your previous holdings go up in value.  So it can make a decent jump in value depending on your holdings.

 

Luck involves make a block faster then normal or slower then normal.  No one really understands why you have a hot or a cold streak.  Most pools force the miner to take luck or variance risk (same thing)

F2pool one of the biggest pools takes on the block making risk and pays a flat rate.  no luck risk.  they charge a 4% fee  but give some bonus coins back so I would say they charge about 2% once the bonus coins are counted.

here is a link to them

https://www.f2pool.com/

F2pool.com remains the best pick as for me.

You don't have to count the with pool luck, you get an estimated BTC/TH payout every day. Thats why it the biggest mining pool world. The payouts are 0.00945247 BTC / Thash/s at current difficulty rate. However the payout may rise or decrease when the network difficulty is changing.
 
But once miner is able to concentrate hashing power of 500+ TH, its obvious to go for the luck with available speed, with no mining pool as middleman between the miner and blocks)

I suggest trying to use anotpool and compare your results.   I've had other things to do and have not been able to do 24 hour on f2, and antpool to compare.

But antpool does PPS (same payment system as F2) at 2.5 percent - https://www.antpool.com/support.htm .  They have done a horrible job advertising this feature but you can change it to PPS from settings.   

You can also use the default PPLNS for 0 percent feels (involves luck).    I know many do not like this as it is up and down.

But you literally can flip a switch on site to go from PPS to PPLNS.  That is a pretty neat feature in my book.   

Antpool recently has made a solo mode for miners that really want to try out their luck on block catch.
Even there are other pools offering solo mode mining, but not sure they are worth of trusting your hashrate to.
In case of Antpool I think they are trust worthy.

Pool addresses:
solo.antpool.com:3333
solo.antpool.com:25
us.solo.antpool.com:3333
us.solo.antpool.com:25

Whenever your mining gear will find a block you will get immediately payed out -1% fee from 25BTC.
Quite a nice move to offer a competitive service by the Antpool and a possibility to mine in solo for those who cannot afford to buy a pool.