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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Michaelxavierd on June 25, 2015, 12:58:36 PM



Title: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Michaelxavierd on June 25, 2015, 12:58:36 PM
http://bitcointechie.com/how-bitcoin-works-is-irrelevant/ (http://bitcointechie.com/how-bitcoin-works-is-irrelevant/)


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: unamis76 on June 25, 2015, 01:10:10 PM
The author is right, Bitcoin has reached a point in which you don't really have to understand it's underlying technology to be able to use it. There are online services that help with the usage of Bitcoins and mobile wallets that are secure enough and simple enough for daily usage by a non-techie :)

However, it's a huge bonus if you understand the inner works of Bitcoin. I've been trying to inform myself more and more about Bitcoin in the last few years. Imagine that the core devs step down... If there isn't anyone else reading about Bitcoin and accumulating deep knowledge about it, we wouldn't have anyone to replace the current core devs.

In short, you can definitely use Bitcoin while ignoring the way it works... Because it just works :) But it's also very important and a big plus to know the most you can about this new technology.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: LFC_Bitcoin on June 25, 2015, 01:10:53 PM
I'd say I have a mediocre level of knowledge on how BTC works. Like you say though knowing how BTC works is irrelevent if you're an investor or VC just looking to make a shit load of money long term.
I have a good level of knowledge on securing my coins & that's the most important thing. The techie side & nerd stuff like you say is irrelevent.

Does average joe know the complicated side of fiat, currency exchange rates, bank debts, country to country loan % rates? The answer is no.

As long as people can safely secure their BTC & hopefully in the future make a hell of a lot of money then I doubt most people care about the techie/nerd side of BTC. As long as the developers & tech guys can maintain a working blockchain that's all I need to know.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: oblivi on June 25, 2015, 02:02:14 PM
I think it's not irrelevant if you want to have some sort of privacy. Bitcoin's privacy is extremely weak for someone that has absolutely no idea how it works. If Joe were to make public his real identity attached to an address for donations or whatever, that address would be tied to him forever unless he knows ways around it.
Bitcoin needs work to make privacy more easy for newbies so they don't need to know all the technical details.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: hilariousetc on June 25, 2015, 02:23:57 PM
The author is right, Bitcoin has reached a point in which you don't really have to understand it's underlying technology to be able to use it. There are online services that help with the usage of Bitcoins and mobile wallets that are secure enough and simple enough for daily usage by a non-techie :)

Using bitcoin isn't even that difficult, maybe only slightly more daunting than using online banking or something. I've always said there's not that much difference between using Paypal and blockchain.info. In fact, I think bc.info even has more security features than PP. Wallets and services will only get easier and more secure over time too.

I think it's not irrelevant if you want to have some sort of privacy. Bitcoin's privacy is extremely weak for someone that has absolutely no idea how it works. If Joe were to make public his real identity attached to an address for donations or whatever, that address would be tied to him forever unless he knows ways around it.
Bitcoin needs work to make privacy more easy for newbies so they don't need to know all the technical details.

True, but those people likely don't care too much about privacy in the first place as if they did they would likely already be more careful and aware of how to keep themselves anon.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Slark on June 25, 2015, 02:27:35 PM
I think it's not irrelevant if you want to have some sort of privacy. Bitcoin's privacy is extremely weak for someone that has absolutely no idea how it works. If Joe were to make public his real identity attached to an address for donations or whatever, that address would be tied to him forever unless he knows ways around it.
Bitcoin needs work to make privacy more easy for newbies so they don't need to know all the technical details.
If you think bitcoin privacy is weak, then what can you say about bigger picture - the internet? I think it is very close to compare bitcoin with the internet.
As for now hundreds of millions of people are using it, and do you think they care about privacy? Or they are willing to do something about it? Absolutely not.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: WhatTheGox on June 25, 2015, 02:39:35 PM

I've been saying for ages all we need to do is to get people to start using and supporting bitcoin.  Just make cool platforms and gimics to bring in the mainstream donks.  The herd will never bother to understand the inner workings of everything.  Take the internet for example most people barely can use/understand it properly.

Andreas antonopoulos said something in one of his talks (i forget which one) along the lines of, we can simulate all the ways in which the current payment systems work, the way he said it at the time was kinda like.... but whats the point.   I say there is a good reason to bring in the herd with simulation imo.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: hilariousetc on June 25, 2015, 02:42:31 PM
I've been saying for ages all we need to do is to get people to start using and supporting bitcoin.  Just make cool platforms and gimics to bring in the mainstream donks.

Such as? It's obvious and easy to say that all we need to do is get people using it, but it's not as easy as that and most people have no real need or desire, especially for a currency that could lose them money (though the opposite is also obviously true).


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Amph on June 25, 2015, 02:47:14 PM
actually it is relevant if you want to run a business for bitcoin, and you need to run a full node , for example you need to know about confirmation time, so you can decide what you can offer to your customers in term of fast transaction

however i can agree that you don't need to know everything about bitcoin, but at least the bases should be known


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: yayayo on June 25, 2015, 03:03:10 PM

I think it's not irrelevant if you want to have some sort of privacy. Bitcoin's privacy is extremely weak for someone that has absolutely no idea how it works. If Joe were to make public his real identity attached to an address for donations or whatever, that address would be tied to him forever unless he knows ways around it.
Bitcoin needs work to make privacy more easy for newbies so they don't need to know all the technical details.

True, but those people likely don't care too much about privacy in the first place as if they did they would likely already be more careful and aware of how to keep themselves anon.

Imho most people start to care about privacy after they have already felt negative impact of not caring about privacy - i.e. people generally start to care about privacy when it's too late.

Regardless, it's true that in future people do not need to understand Bitcoin to use it. However that doesn't make it irrelevant to understand how Bitcoin works. Knowing how something works will always enable you to exert more control on the circumstances you live in - for Bitcoin this means, you will more carefully select which (exchange/banking) services you use. This will reduce your exposure to risk.

ya.ya.yo!


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Lauda on June 25, 2015, 03:10:30 PM
actually it is relevant if you want to run a business for bitcoin, and you need to run a full node , for example you need to know about confirmation time, so you can decide what you can offer to your customers in term of fast transaction

however i can agree that you don't need to know everything about bitcoin, but at least the bases should be known
That's not what the article is about. He does not discuss businesses.
Quote
But what Ive come to appreciate is this public understanding of how bitcoin works is irrelevant
What the author is trying to address is that the average consumer doesn't need to know how Bitcoin works. He's actually right, and whoever says that Bitcoin is too complicated to use is wrong. Who knows how FIAT works? I doubt that even 1% of the users (aside from people working with producing it and whatnot) know how it works.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Amph on June 25, 2015, 03:18:26 PM
actually it is relevant if you want to run a business for bitcoin, and you need to run a full node , for example you need to know about confirmation time, so you can decide what you can offer to your customers in term of fast transaction

however i can agree that you don't need to know everything about bitcoin, but at least the bases should be known
That's not what the article is about. He does not discuss businesses.

He does not deny it either, and if he is a guy that he is not running any business now, he can in the future maybe, and when that time will come, he will need to know more, about bitcoin, that's what i mean

it is better to have basic knowledges about everything, one never know

also he just saying that, one don't need to know about bitcoin, because the success of it is not tied to its understanding, well no one is saying that you need to understand bitcoin, to help its success, and you need to understand it , only if you work with it, this should be pretty obvious

another example outside the business world is that you need for example to know how much time a confirmation take if you want to send money to your friend, and you don't have enough time to do it and he need that amount asap, so no he is not really correct from my pow

or you need to know how to use fee, if you want transaction fast, and the higher the fee the higher the priority ecc..., so again he is wrong...


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: LiteCoinGuy on June 25, 2015, 03:21:23 PM
The author is right, Bitcoin has reached a point in which you don't really have to understand it's underlying technology to be able to use it. There are online services that help with the usage of Bitcoins and mobile wallets that are secure enough and simple enough for daily usage by a non-techie :)

However, it's a huge bonus if you understand the inner works of Bitcoin. I've been trying to inform myself more and more about Bitcoin in the last few years. Imagine that the core devs step down... If there isn't anyone else reading about Bitcoin and accumulating deep knowledge about it, we wouldn't have anyone to replace the current core devs.

In short, you can definitely use Bitcoin while ignoring the way it works... Because it just works :) But it's also very important and a big plus to know the most you can about this new technology.

100%

like email too ;)


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: gogxmagog on June 25, 2015, 03:41:29 PM
Agree with the above.
You don't need to know how your car works either, but it can be to your advantage if you do. Like if it won't start, for example.
Also, BTC is suffering these days. Why? There is no killer app. There is no use case where BTC is uniquely best suited. Ignorance of the mechanics of BTC is not going to help us find the very thing that will propell BTC to ubiquity.

No you don't need to know how BTC works, but you should want to!


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: 1986 on June 25, 2015, 03:53:22 PM
Agree with the above.
You don't need to know how your car works either, but it can be to your advantage if you do. Like if it won't start, for example.
Also, BTC is suffering these days. Why? There is no killer app. There is no use case where BTC is uniquely best suited. Ignorance of the mechanics of BTC is not going to help us find the very thing that will propell BTC to ubiquity.

No you don't need to know how BTC works, but you should want to!

I think saving money is it's USP. For instance, I would never use my credit oir debit card abroad because I would be absolutely raped by fees, but in theory I could use bitcoin all over the world like a truly universal currency and I would have to pay next to nothing to do so nor would I have to deal with paying money to convert my fiat to whatever country I'm in or going to.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: aztecminer on June 25, 2015, 04:39:04 PM
Agree with the above.
You don't need to know how your car works either, but it can be to your advantage if you do. Like if it won't start, for example.
Also, BTC is suffering these days. Why? There is no killer app. There is no use case where BTC is uniquely best suited. Ignorance of the mechanics of BTC is not going to help us find the very thing that will propell BTC to ubiquity.

No you don't need to know how BTC works, but you should want to!


hmm... yep seems like bitcoin has lost some steam due to no new innovations.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: twister on June 25, 2015, 07:32:52 PM
But one still needs to know some technical parts of it, for instance there was a news on blockchain fork and people had no idea what it is (still don't) and discussions were going on reddit/forums on effects of it and what to do/not and there were confusions about it and to clear those one needs to understand and read on about the importance of it.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: cakir on June 25, 2015, 08:27:16 PM
No,
It's quite relevant but people are dumb.  They don't even know how a credit card / debit card works & they don't even care and when they got robbed they blame the system; as I said, they're dumb.

If you're using a tool you need to know how it works or else you will harm yourself. It doesn't matter which tool you use.



Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: gentlemand on June 25, 2015, 08:28:00 PM
But one still needs to know some technical parts of it, for instance there was a news on blockchain fork and people had no idea what it is (still don't) and discussions were going on reddit/forums on effects of it and what to do/not and there were confusions about it and to clear those one needs to understand and read on about the importance of it.

For better or worse, Bitcoin won't really gain traction until that stuff doesn't have to impinge on the average user's life.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Velkro on June 25, 2015, 08:31:52 PM
The author is right, Bitcoin has reached a point in which you don't really have to understand it's underlying technology to be able to use it.
Same with cellphones, TV, PC etc. :) thats reality


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: jeannemadrigal2 on June 25, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
The author is right, Bitcoin has reached a point in which you don't really have to understand it's underlying technology to be able to use it.
Same with cellphones, TV, PC etc. :) thats reality

Most things are like this.  How many people really understand how their car works?  Who really knows what a turbo charger does?  This information is readily available, but the majority of people don't even care.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Sythyn on June 25, 2015, 10:27:26 PM
i think its important to understand it to gain trust in Bitcoin


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: adzino on June 25, 2015, 10:32:48 PM
http://bitcointechie.com/how-bitcoin-works-is-irrelevant/ (http://bitcointechie.com/how-bitcoin-works-is-irrelevant/)

Can't say that the author is wrong. Most people in this world has no clue how the current fiat money works but yet they still use it fine.

Just like the most of the internet users don't  know how TCP/IP/HTTP works but they can still use it. They don't even need to know about these stuffs if they want to access the internet. But they need to know some stuffs about the internet like security, privacy and safety.

Thats the same thing for bitcoins. They  need to know how to use it but also how to store securely, how to do a transaction that is send and receive from a wallet. That's it. No more techy stuffs needed.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: jbrnt on June 25, 2015, 11:42:24 PM
Ultimately, users do not need to understand how bitcoin really works, they only need to know how to use it. People don't need to know how the Internet works in order to use it. BUT now, bitcoin and it's services are not fully matured yet. We still need to understand the technical side of bitcoin to prevent loss of our coins or ensure a successful transaction.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: johnyj on June 26, 2015, 12:17:30 AM
This is still the very early days



Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: blablaace on June 26, 2015, 12:25:38 AM
agreed, the average consumer/bitcoin user does NOT need to know how bitcoin works .. any more than the average user of fiat money needs to understand the nitty gritty of fractional reserve banking


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: pooya87 on June 26, 2015, 02:47:47 AM
eventually this has to happen. because average day to day users doesn't need to know about all the technical stuff that is going on behind the scene. and in many cases they don't want to know and knowing them would make things complicated for them.
take the things that we are using every day like cell phone, computers, cars, etc nobody (at least not many) cares about how they work but still they keep using them.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Balerion on June 26, 2015, 03:24:08 AM
Indeed, we don;t understand how electricity works to use it or computers, internet, phones etc.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: peligro on June 28, 2015, 10:14:09 PM
I think it's not irrelevant if you want to have some sort of privacy.

This! Most noobs think bitcoins are anonymous. In fact its pretty easy to connect the dots when you don't care.

And its way too dangerous to not understand that actually you are your own bank. You will lose all your money if you don't care about your passwords, have backups and protect your wallet. Thats too much for many newbies.

So no, you need to understand the risks at least.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: DarkHyudrA on June 29, 2015, 11:07:16 AM
Well, one important point that everyone misses is about the security.
Most people don't give a f#ck about the privacy, but understanding how to secure your wallet and the computer that holds it is far from irrelevant.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Herbert2020 on June 29, 2015, 11:30:37 AM
bitcoin is complicated concept for some people to accept. i say this from experience, since i try to explain it to my friends and coworkers sometimes. i mostly find out that they don't care about the technical stuff and find it hard to understand, so they stay away.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: peligro on June 29, 2015, 12:07:01 PM
It's complicated, ok. Though i'm not sure if the solution is to create wallets that do everything for the user. First thing is that an experienced user often don't have any chance anymore to get the more professional features. That's something really annoying. The same way went ubuntu and it's annoying not being able to find the pro settings anymore. At the end you simply change to another linux version.

On top i don't think it's good to not educate people. They need to know the risks, otherwise bitcoin only will get bad press and such.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: neoneros on June 29, 2015, 12:58:57 PM
For the average user it is important that the use of BTCitcoin is as easy as it should be. Installing a wallet on your phone, receiving/sending money and important too, what if my phone breaks or gets lost/stolen? Backup should be safe and easy too. With the current online banking systems there are a lot of people who have problems using it, they find it too hard to work with computers in general and have no interest in learning new ways.

There will always be that group of users, but it should be made easy and it can be, bitcoin is not so difficult to use and a lot of smart people work on it and other implementations to make it work for even those who do not(want) to understand. 


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: BitcoinNewbie15 on June 29, 2015, 01:14:48 PM
I do agree, it is not necessary to know how Bitcoin works in order to use it and benefit from it. I know many people who use Bitcoin because they like it, and they have no technological understanding about Bitcoin or the blockchain.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: spazzdla on June 29, 2015, 01:20:30 PM
If you don't want them to get stolen I would disagree.


Title: Re: Understanding how bitcoin works is IRRELEVANT
Post by: Amph on June 29, 2015, 02:30:12 PM
Indeed, we don;t understand how electricity works to use it or computers, internet, phones etc.

not really a good comparison, knowing about electricity is useless because you don't use it you use computer, internet ecc, but you actually know how dthose thing work, and with bitcoin is the same, you should need to know at least the minimum

everyone should at least know how to secure their wallet, telling that this is irrelevant, is a blatant lie, and it tells us how you did not understand the decentralized nature of bitcoin, where you are the own in charge for your security and not someone else