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Title: Collapse Spiral Post by: kenbytes on June 29, 2015, 11:10:54 PM Argentina ,Greece and now Puerto Rico
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/business/dealbook/puerto-ricos-governor-says-islands-debts-are-not-payable.html?_r=0 who's next ??? Title: Re: Death Spiral Post by: hazenyc on June 29, 2015, 11:28:15 PM PRexit?
Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: johnyj on June 29, 2015, 11:47:19 PM In order to borrow new money and pay back the old debt forever, the debt scale must increase exponentially because of interest
However, interest can be pushed below zero to permanently remove the burden of interest payment, even less debt need to be repaid. Then if you are able to keep borrowing money every year, you would never need to worry about the debt for decades or centuries Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: Possum577 on June 30, 2015, 04:41:07 PM Interesting, well admitting it is the first step.
The only entities that are too big to fail are countries, major municipalities. The debt should be repaid but perhaps an ease on the interest rate would help (and certainly a loosening of the pay back period.) It's nice to see the US is keeping its distance thus far, allowing PR to figure it out, but in the end this one will be the US' problem. Hopefully something can be done to ease the burden. The article didn't talk about how far off PR is from making its payments. I'd also like, to know what can be done to increase PR's tax revenue. Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: RustyNomad on July 01, 2015, 11:08:26 AM In order to borrow new money and pay back the old debt forever, the debt scale must increase exponentially because of interest However, interest can be pushed below zero to permanently remove the burden of interest payment, even less debt need to be repaid. Then if you are able to keep borrowing money every year, you would never need to worry about the debt for decades or centuries Until such time as inflation starts showing and the central bank has no choice but to increase rates. One of the major problems currently in the US, they want to increase rates but I do not think they can afford to do so. Even a quarter of a basis point will take many people and corporations to the cleaners and this will include many smaller countries who borrowed heavily in dollars. I however doubt whether we will see an increase in rates in the US as the fundamentals are not going where it should to justify such a lift in rates. Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: HCLivess on July 01, 2015, 11:21:30 AM In order to borrow new money and pay back the old debt forever, the debt scale must increase exponentially because of interest However, interest can be pushed below zero to permanently remove the burden of interest payment, even less debt need to be repaid. Then if you are able to keep borrowing money every year, you would never need to worry about the debt for decades or centuries proof of stake? Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: AtheistAKASaneBrain on July 01, 2015, 11:56:50 AM Argentina ,Greece and now Puerto Rico http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/business/dealbook/puerto-ricos-governor-says-islands-debts-are-not-payable.html?_r=0 who's next ??? It depends if Greece leaves or not. If they do, the door is opened for any scenarios happening, including the one where a domino effect ensues and we'll see all of south europe eventually leaving the Euro to either become independent countries again or to create some sort of south European coalition. Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: dblink on July 02, 2015, 06:49:36 AM Long time to go, it is not going to happen right now, so much still we should not come to the conclusion that Greece will indeed out of the Euro zone, there are still more possibilities to make it happen for Greece to stay inside, regards to PR, think deeply about this words “There are way too many creditors and way too many kinds of debt,” told by Mr. Rhodes in an interview.
Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: bit1 on July 03, 2015, 12:20:58 AM Africa have many countries living situations worst since years ago, problem is that we are finishing with natural resources to global scale,if really countries want help ones with others could do things completely different .
Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: lucaspm98 on July 03, 2015, 03:32:34 AM Most countries these days are on a path towards this same thing, even super powers like the United States.
Countries seem to have no problem taking on huge debts they have no reasonable chance of paying off, and create currency backed by nothing. When individuals run their finances like a government they quickly go bankrupt. Why should it be any different for an entire country? Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: TPTB_need_war on July 03, 2015, 06:39:19 PM http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/34327
Quote IMF Numbers Warn the Troika Has Destroyed the Greek Economy The IMF on Thursday issued its own analysis on the Greek economy. The new debt forecast numbers have been raised in recent months and while the IMF analysis is never on point (way too optimistic), this tends to make the new number even more shocking. The IMF analysts determined, even before the ultimatum to the Greek government, that the Greek economy would need yet an additional €52 billion euros for this third, so-called “bailout”. This amount is the result of nearly four years of bailouts that have totally failed. Effectively, they have been lending money, but simultaneously demanding austerity, which shrinks the economy and increases the deficits. The IMF analysts have evaluated the overall development of the recent Greek bailout. Essentially, the country remains in a sharp downward declining economic spiral. The demands of the Troika are no different from those that oppressed the German economy following World War I, which set the stage for Hitler to take power in 1933. We see Greek protesters dressing up as German Nazis for this is creating deep resentment, which undermines the entire idea of the EU. In addition to the €52, we still have the immediate needs of €16.3 billion euros. Greece could have actually paid the latter on the second loan program. In order to get a new loan program in the amount of €70 billion, this will no doubt raise serious concerns among other European taxpayers. The IMF analysts determined that about half of all loans to Greek banks are non-performing loans (NPL), and this was before the bank closures. What this really means is that they have utterly destroyed the Greek economy with their austerity and total incompetence. This in turn will fuel enormous uncertainty among Greek companies and among consumers – it will more than likely push the economy over the cliff. A total of €240 billion was invested in loans from the various bailout funds to Greece in order to stabilize the financial system in Euroland. This does not include the emergency loans to the ECB, which will probably amount again to €120 billion. In the face of austerity, raising taxes and enforcement, the economy only declines producing deflation. This may have contributed to the IMF’s refusal to provide any more funds. The team of Christine Lagarde seems to have recognized that cosmetic pretend bailouts are running out. The Troika program for Greece has utterly failed and the prospects from here on out look rather grim. The Troika bailout has been the most spectacular failure in modern history. No one in the Troika will ever accept responsibility for this disaster on a monumental scale. If these figures are true, it is clear: Greece will be pushed into a massive depression. This is most likely going to spread after October 1, 2015. As stated previously, this is a massive DEFLATIONARY wave. We will be on our hands and knees begging for inflation to return. Title: Re: Collapse Spiral Post by: n2004al on October 01, 2015, 03:37:04 PM Argentina ,Greece and now Puerto Rico http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/business/dealbook/puerto-ricos-governor-says-islands-debts-are-not-payable.html?_r=0 who's next ??? Why all such interest for this things? There were has been all the times crisis to every type on most (maybe all) of the countries of the world. For more there was a global one (so, much more than in one country) only 7 years ago (Global Financial Crisis). This last one was much more severe than all the others known until today and was compared with that which happened in years '30 (which is known the most severe of all the times). According to Wikipedia the crisis of 2008 "... played a significant role in the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in trillions of U.S. dollars, and a downturn in economic activity leading to the 2008–2012 global recession and contributing to the European sovereign-debt crisis" Normally every economy in every country has its economic cycle which include even the depression. The inability to pay the debt is one aspect of crisis which is seen to many times and which has been resolved based on the economic and in the other countries characteristics of every country where it was happen. It was resolved for Argentina, it was resolved for the moment for the Greece, it will be resolved for every other country. With some pain but will be resolved. End of story. |