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Title: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 07:32:18 AM Today's town hall (prep)meeting is about Butterfly Labs http://www.butterflylabs.com/
This thread serves to gather questions that you have about the company, it's products, it's owners, it's staff, whatever you desire. I am sure BFL will answer selectively, but we have an acceptance from BFL Josh (or Inaba) to answer these questions via a media type that has not yet been decided. It has come about specifically from the quotes below, but could serve a wider purpose as i'm sure Inaba must feel like a parrot sometimes. If people ask repeat questions, send them here. Sonny Vleisides is associated with BFL and it's the same Sonny listed in the case documents. He was involved in off shore gaming in the capacity of selling and providing software engineering to companies that did the actual offshore gaming (there is even a US patent application for the process). The industry came under attack (as we all remember) around that time, and Mr. Vleisides was caught up in the process as well as a good portion of the industry based in Costa Rica. Although this may be cause for concern to some, the fact is that we're a robust company with 22 employees. One of them has a colorful background in offshore libertarianism. If I thought there was even the possibility of something unsavory going on within BFL, you can rest assured I would a) not be part of it and b) would let everyone know it. The reality is, we are legitimate, we have released revolutionary products and we are going to release more revolutionary products. I was made aware of this back story prior to my employment and I evaluated it and concluded that it was immaterial to the business at hand and thus joined BFL. There was nothing hidden from me and Sonny has always answered questions and been completely open about his past, but I think we can all agree that it's not something you just announce to the world. Quote From the extradition warrant. http://www.scribd.com/doc/106417808/Affidavit-for-Extradition-Warrant 5. A joint investigation involving the IRS-CID and the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS), revealed that from at least 1990 through July 2006, SONNY VLEISIDES, James Ray Houston, Dennis Emmett, William Cloud, Henry Walther, Scott Henry Walther, and others committed a massive international lottery scam using the following company names: Shamrock Agency, German Swiss Group, World Expert Fund, Mutual Medical Insurance Co, Old Amsterdam Trust Co, Euro American Fax Co, European Union Commission, EU American Payment Co, Global Search Network, North American Foreign Payments Services, Wor'dwide Verification Service, and others. VLEISIDES ran the scheme along with Houston and Emmett. VLEISIDES, Houston and Emmett, who were all located in Costa Rica, worked with mailing houses which, at the direction of VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett, sent out tens of thousands of mailings to victims in the United States, many of whom were elderly. The mailings contained false statement s, half truths, and omissions, and induced the victims to participate in various international lotteries, falsely stating that if the victims participated, they were guaranteed to win or had a very good chance to win. The mailings directed the victims to send their money to Ireland, at d the Netherlands, among other locations, where William Cloud had set up addresses with commercial mail receiving agencies and individuals to forward the money, eventually, back to the United States. After receipt at the commercial mail receiving agencies, the victims' money was sent to Henry Walther, who, along with his son Scott Henry Walther, deposited the money into various bank accounts and then distributed it as directed by VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett. Some of the money was spent on furthering the criminal activity. Some of the money was paid out to victims in small-dollar checks that the co-schemers misrepresented to be lottery winnings. The rest of the money was paid out to the co-s chemers and others for their own use. VLEISIDES and the other defendants did not buy any lottery tickets, and the vast majority of the victims lost the money they sent. The total loss from the scheme is in excess of $19 million. For the town hall, what about IRC or is that too esoteric for a lot of people? And when? I will absolutely make this happen ASAP if we can agree on a time and place. If we could keep it civil that would be great. Short to-the-point questions will be posted below and answered by BFL using the media that is decided upon. We don't need any Internet sleuths looking for more information. The link above provides enough. 2 replies below this are reserved. One for BFL to say whatever they wish as an intro, the other for questions. Questions will not be quoted. PM your question if you wish to remain anon. In case this matters to anybody: I am not associated with BFL in any way other than being a first time customer with one ASIC SC order. I once asked for a paid sig but was ignored! It's all about the btcjamins baby!!! Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 07:33:17 AM Placeholder for BFL introduction;
Hey man, Here's the intial response from Sonny. We are trying to get him out of newbie jail, just waiting on Theymos to fix the account. But might as well post this in your second space: Quote Hello, my name is Sonny Vleisides. I've been involved in technology and libertarian focused ventures for most of my adult life. I believe very strongly in freedom, honesty and personal responsibility. I decided to drop university studies at UMKC back in 1991. My mother wasn't very happy about it, but with youthful ambition and no sense, I set out to travel the world instead. I've lived in Russia, Indonesia, Latin America, Europe etc... Mostly seeking opportunity while trying to learn what I could. Along the way, libertarian ideals became more interesting than any other and looking back, it's clear that's the attraction that's pulled me through life from one focus to the next. The internet was an exciting development. I started webspawner.com in 1995. It was my focus for many years. Do a search for 'free webpages' on google. I'm currently president of that company, not BFL. In the late 90's, I found myself face to face with a great new concept. It was called jurisdictional arbitration. That's where you're able to leverage technology to profit from differences in law from one jurisdiction to another. The hotbed of it was in offshore gaming where a Costa Rican license could be used along with satellite telecommunications to offer gaming services to clients all over the world, even in the United States. I thought this was pretty cool, so I started a software company to provide the back end for these systems. We operated services as Sportsbook Solutions (http://web.archive.org/web/20051212053226/http://www.sportsbooksolutions.com/) and the SportsPulse platform (http://web.archive.org/web/20080905225349/http://www.sportspulse.com/). It was a lucrative and fun time. I saw it as a libertarian adventure in challenging the authorities of the world while earning a good living. I came to know my real father only as an adult. So when I got the opportunity to know him better, I was eager and curious. His name was James Ray Houston (the focus of the indictment). He was very charismatic and had a wild past from having ran for governor in Nevada. At one time he had a Lear jet with his picture on the tail. He'd gone broke and rich several times since and had a zillion GREAT stories to tell. I was completely enamored. At that time he had been building a business bundling lottery tickets and selling shares of ownership in their potential winnings. He moved to simply guaranteeing the ticket results on his own via re-insurance pools (US Pattent application number US 2004/0058726 A1). At some point after that it became clear to him that he could use my company's software system and sportsbook license to clarify legality and allow his customers to bet on the outcome of a lottery without buying a lottery ticket. . So instead of "I bet the Giants win by 7", it's "I bet the NY Lottery pick 3 is 4-7-2". It was a roaring success. It's fair to say the US Government didn't like it much in spite of the legal basis. After several years, indictments suddenly rained down on all forms of offshore gaming. That year (2007), about 30% of the larger offshore sportsbook/poker/lottery gaming companies were indicted with mail fraud and money laundering related accusations including betonsports.com, sportsbook.com, sportingbet plc. Later it was Bookmaker.com, 2Betsdi.com, Funtimebingo.com, Goldenarchcasino.com, Truepoker.com, Betmaker.com, Betgrandesports.com, Doylesroom.com, Betehorse.com, Beted.com.... and many more. Each case was different and this one was particularly unusual because it wasn't a standard sportsbook model. In fact, this case was started by the IRS. Why the IRS? It's not my place to say, but it's worth any reader taking a moment to think about. The core of their argument was that if a customer didn't buy the ticket from the government, then they were being victimized. Consequently, all economic activity by James Houston's company was fraudulent and this forms the basis of their indictment and fraud accusations. The customers bought tickets and were paid their winnings as promised. Only the government lost out. This made the case hard to prosecute. In fact, the government ended the case without any obligation to repay anyone anything. No restitution. My role was mostly as a software & license supplier, However, I was involved enough in the company that my name was included in the indictment. Later this role distinction would become an important factor. Everything was fine until one day I was picked up while traveling in Florence. It was a sealed indictment, so I had no idea what was going on. I spent the next two years fighting extradition. The case went all the way to the Italian Supreme Court. In the end, I was extradited after the US was made to drop half of the charges. That's all they could do for me, but they really helped. I'll always be thankful to Italy for that. In the US, I was preparing for my case. It had been a long slog. My finances had dwindled to zero, leaving me with a free court appointed lawyer from the legal pool. He showed me that the US federal system had a 97% conviction rate... higher than the Russian courts under Stalin. He calmly informed me that I was facing full life without possibility of parole as a first time white collar defendant. Yes.. really. This is no joke. It's called the federal sentencing guidelines implemented in 1984. It's the point system that determines the sentence, not the judge. My points totaled 43. Life in prison. Look it up and prepare to be amazed. At the last minute, the prosecution calls for a meeting and tells me I can go home if I accept a single count of mail fraud. They would drop 23 charges and leave me with a simple postal violation (lesser count of mail fraud). After two and a half years, I thought about it and agreed. I signed and went home to my Mother's house in Kansas City. I sat there looking at the wall for a long time. I didn't feel like leaving the house much. It was difficult to get over the emotional loss. My life was ruined. Mom got me an account on match.com and encouraged me to date. I met a wonderful girl and we had a little boy. We named him Indy. My life continued and I started to look for a new project to begin life again. A fresh start. I'm on a good track now, trying to put the past behind me. http://communityhosting.net/ih/images/sfamj.jpg Somewhere along the way, I got involved with the BFL project. (No one from the indictment is involved in this company, in fact two of them have since died including my father.) With regards to BFL, I'm proud to have played a role in it's start up and focus on the current products, but I am not a majority owner. The company has 22 employees who are all dedicated and focused on delivering a truly amazing best in class product. The bitcoin community and it's success are important to me and my past are not a threat to it or to the BFL corporation. I hope you can see that. Thanks for your time in reading this. Kind regards, Sonny Vleisides Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 07:34:54 AM Questions area. Note again, these are not quoted.
Any slights, or digs, in any context will be trimmed down to the black and white question. 1: Is Sonny Vleisides the BFL employee who signs his emails "Sonny K?" Why the K? 2: Did Sonny Vleisides found the company or is he merely an employee? 3: Of those 22 employees, are any of their names: James Ray Houston, Rex Rogers, Dennis Emmett, William Cloud, Henry Walther, Scott Henry Walther, PJ Swink, or Michael Swink? 4: What other surprises will people find if they dig further? 5: Who are the owners of BFL? Does Sonny own 100% or is it shared between him and others? (E.g. VCs) 6: Given these conditions of his parole, is Sonny able to produce evidence that he has the permission of his probation officer to undertake BFL activities? (address 3, 14 of http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20100915_0004129.CCA.htm/qx) 7: How quickly can you prove the preorders are legitimate and not a preorder scam? And how can you do this? 8: Can you provide the company details (registered trademarks, registered business etc)? 9: Who is the treasurer/CFO? How are preorder and order funds looked after (do they stay in the company?) and are they converted to another currency? 10: Does Sonny still hold offshore accounts and do any BFL funds transfer to them? 11: When did he find out about bitcoin and how did his interest develop in to this? Is it related to his Laissez Faire City, James Orlin Grabbe and KGB ties? 12: Can you shred any light around the chip sandpapering? Will this continue with ASIC chips? 13: You say your only involvement was your software your company being used by your father, but testimony shows you directly involved with mailouts, and you also covered your name. Can you elaborate? 14: Are you saying the lottery tickets existed in all cases? 15: BFL originally stated they were not going to mine with the devices. Now we have Inaba/BFL_Josh stating they will 24 hour mine (burn in) with each device on a live network. Is BFL a producer or a miner now? Or just profit gouging? 16: Your story just doesn't match the affidavit at all. Why the huge difference? 17: Did BFL design the FPGA chip from scratch or use "altera atratix3 EP3SL150F780 FPGA" chip? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: dust on September 20, 2012, 07:37:23 AM As both a satisfied BFL customer and someone paranoid towards scams, I am glad to see this occurring.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Puppet on September 20, 2012, 07:52:03 AM Wow. Didnt see this coming. I guess this is the same guy:
http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20100915_0004129.CCA.htm/qx Quote Pursuant to the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, it is the judgment of the Court that the defendant, Sonny Vleisides, is hereby committed on Count 1 of the 23-Count Indictment to the custody of the Bureau of Prisons to be imprisoned for a term of 26 months, which shall be deemed satisfied by time already served in custody in this matter, taking into consideration the time period that the defendant served in custody from the time of his arrest in Italy in April 2007 until his extradition to the Central District of California in February 2009, and the time period in custody from his arrival in this district in February 2009 until his release on bond I dont think this proves BFL is a scam, particularly given their current track record of actually delivering (albeit late) state of the art miners, but it sure would make me think twice about preordering their asics. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: ice_chill on September 20, 2012, 08:09:30 AM Even if it is the same guy, have you thought that people change ?
Can anyone truthfully say that they are a saint that have never committed a single crime ? Also just because you were never caught, does not mean you never committed a crime or scam, maybe some of the other ASICs producers committed even greater crimes and scams but were not caught for them. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: CleverMiner on September 20, 2012, 08:17:19 AM Even if it is the same guy, have you thought that people change ? Can anyone truthfully say that they are a saint that have never committed a single crime ? Also just because you were never caught, does not mean you never committed a crime or scam, maybe some of the other ASICs producers committed even greater crimes and scams but were not caught for them. Yes people change and have the right to do so. Ps: No need to bring the other asics makers into this. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: mrb on September 20, 2012, 08:55:20 AM Who are the owners of BFL? Does Sonny own 100% or is it shared between him and others, eg. the venture capitalists mentioned in the ASIC press release?
I understand that BFL, as a private corporation, is under no obligation to answer these questions, so thanks for doing the town hall. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: kaerf on September 20, 2012, 09:29:17 AM what role does sonny currently play within bfl?
what is his level of involvement and influence at the company? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bitcoin Oz on September 20, 2012, 09:33:38 AM Is sonny going to make his previous victims whole ?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: repentance on September 20, 2012, 09:59:33 AM Just posting this here as evidence that (Sonny) Chris Vleisides is listed as President/Director of the company on documents filed with the Wyoming Secretary of State, in case there's any attempt to pass him off as a minor employee.
https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=149144214231010201167112190255028042109060235081 Click on the "Parties" tab. Given these conditions of his parole, it is reasonable to ask Sonny to produce evidence that he has the permission of his probation officer to undertake BFL activities. Quote 3. The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise, in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing activities, investment programs or any other business involving the solicitation of funds or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to engagement in such employment. Further, the defendant shall provide the Probation Officer with access to any and all business records, client lists and other records pertaining to the operation of any business owned, in whole or in part, by the defendant, as directed by the Probation Officer; Quote 14. as directed by the probation officer, the defendant shall notify third parties of risks that may be occasioned by the defendant's criminal record or personal history or characteristics, and shall permit the probation officer to make such notifications and to conform the defendant's compliance with such notification requirement; http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20100915_0004129.CCA.htm/qx If Sonny's probation officer knew that BFL was soliciting funds and did not direct him to notify BFL users as per 14, the question of why needs to be answered. That's a pretty significant oversight. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 10:47:09 AM Is sonny going to make his previous victims whole ? That's what the justice system is supposed to do. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: jojo69 on September 20, 2012, 11:12:32 AM popcorn
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bitcoin Oz on September 20, 2012, 11:17:07 AM Is sonny going to make his previous victims whole ? That's what the justice system is supposed to do. Ripping off little old ladies then being free and clear to raise millions of dollars while his victims live off noodles because he stole their pension money isn't justice at all. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 11:23:57 AM I agree. I feel very sorry for the people who have been conned. But you have a justice system, and the system punished. Technically the victims and the public won. :/
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: nedbert9 on September 20, 2012, 12:52:58 PM Let's not let the main-net "QC" issue slide. For those out of the loop on this. Recent admission that all BFL equipment, and no different guidance for ASICs, have been QC'ed on main-net.
Why? 1. ASIC is a game changer. ASIC is a tech shift that completely changes the repercussions of QC testing on main-net. BFL will produce and test in large batch quantities (first shipment). With ASIC ramp up, any QC activity of ASIC on main-net would establish BFL as a competitor to the mining community. Using an estimation of 20 TH produced in bulk and QC'ed on main-net in one months time would equate to approx. $80,000 of mining profit. (600GH+ in QC activity per day) 2. BFL stated in the past that main-net would not be used for QC. Furthermore, the quote, "We are hardware enthusiasts. We are not interested in mining bitcoin," only supports this. How can this not be described as a credibility issue? 3. BFL claims technical challenges that prevents QC activities on non production/main-net. Inaba/Josh's latest rebuttal is that test-net is not appropriate for testing in that the core dev's have requested no mining testing on test-net to keep difficulty low. Inaba/Josh has asked the community to, "do their own research," as to why test-net can't be used. Interesting PR tactic. Dev's have been consulted and the fact that an isolated test-net can be created, by anyone, for the explicit purpose of testing mining hardware has been confirmed. Again, is this a credibility issue? 4. BFL-Miner relationship. Is BFL a vendor or a competitor? There are two arguments to this. One, which is not my position, is that BFL could use this opportunity to add profit and then pass along savings to customers in the form of lower unit price points. BFL has never set expectations within the community that unit cost would be influenced at all by BFL self mining profit. In the current market, one that has been without serious ASIC competition, there is no market justification (competitive pressure) to translate any self mining profits to customer savings by lower unit costs. In principle, this is a valid argument. In context with the current market the argument fails. The other argument, one that casts this development in the worst light, is that if BFL generates a mining profit on the equipment prior to customer delivery an unexpected profit extraction from the mining community has occurred. By extension one could argue that BFL's products are now more expensive for the customer. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: jjshabadoo on September 20, 2012, 01:16:57 PM This is a great exercise, I just hope people stay the course and realize this is not just, " someone did something wrong in the past let's forget about it. "
The guy pulled a multi-million dollar scam and people here and elsewhere have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in upfront money which can be EASILY stolen since the bulk of it is in BTC. I have heard many of the same excuses so far in this matter which were used to justify pirate40's behavior. Stop being so naive and understand this is not just someone getting arrested in the past for a minor crime. Any legitimate business owner would have to answer to this in the real world. I hope it works out and if BFL has good intentions then this should end the criticism's of their company once and for all. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: BitcoinINV on September 20, 2012, 01:20:09 PM Wow great information, I will be following this and the release of BFL.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MrTeal on September 20, 2012, 02:13:48 PM Given the following condition of Sonny's parole (emphasis mine):
Quote 3. The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise, in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing activities, investment programs or any other business involving the solicitation of funds or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to engagement in such employment. Further, the defendant shall provide the Probation Officer with access to any and all business records, client lists and other records pertaining to the operation of any business owned, in whole or in part, by the defendant, as directed by the Probation Officer Has Sonny/BFL provided his probation officer with any business records or client lists related to Butterfly Labs, and/or has his probation officer asked for such information? If Sonny is found to be in violation of his parole or if the courts decide that his stake in BFL is unacceptable, is there a succession plan in place to ensure the continued operation of BFL? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Desolator on September 20, 2012, 02:51:48 PM Why is there no registered business or trademarks in Missouri for Butterfly Labs, BFL, anything similar to that and the word "Bitforce" doesn't appear in any patent or trademark registration? Also why is your website protected by a privacy registration company, you use a PO box, and you use a difficult to trace Sprint mobile number for all calls and faxes?
I know you don't want people finding out where your facility is and breaking into it and stealing lots of ungodly expensive chips and a security system to stop that would cost a fortune but it's also good in the bitcoin world to prove that you exist and that it's where you say you exist, especially with a company employee or owner or whatever having a criminal background including fraud. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MrTeal on September 20, 2012, 03:23:45 PM Why is there no registered business or trademarks in Missouri for Butterfly Labs, BFL, anything similar to that and the word "Bitforce" doesn't appear in any patent or trademark registration? Also why is your website protected by a privacy registration company, you use a PO box, and you use a difficult to trace Sprint mobile number for all calls and faxes? I know you don't want people finding out where your facility is and breaking into it and stealing lots of ungodly expensive chips and a security system to stop that would cost a fortune but it's also good in the bitcoin world to prove that you exist and that it's where you say you exist, especially with a company employee or owner or whatever having a criminal background including fraud. I highly doubt BFL keeps excessive amounts of inventory or equipment onhand, at least not any more than any other electronics development house. Even if they had US$1M worth of test equipment and product on hand, that wouldn't be outside the norm. My previous employer had that much tied up in just a half dozen spectrum analyzers, and I still had the physical location and phone number printed on my business card. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Yolocoin on September 20, 2012, 03:32:34 PM Why didn't BFL just answer the questions when they first came up instead of giving an obviously bullshit answeR?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Rassah on September 20, 2012, 03:44:20 PM Who is the treasurer/CFO of the company? I.e. who is in charge of the money, Sonny himself, or a separate person without a conflict of interest?
When a BTC payment is sent, are all funds kept in BTC, or are they all converted to USD? And who's account does the money go to? Asking because one setup let's the owner abscond with the funds (like pirate), the other keeps the funds in the company. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: squid on September 20, 2012, 04:03:44 PM Good to see the community is finally starting to look out for itself.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Kaliecious on September 20, 2012, 05:03:55 PM I would like to know how sonny come to know of the bitcoin community.
Has he been a miner this whole time? Does he have the knowledge and expierence to produce these types of products, if not Who is the backer or brains behind the opperation. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on September 20, 2012, 05:16:50 PM Who is the treasurer/CFO of the company? I.e. who is in charge of the money, Sonny himself, or a separate person without a conflict of interest? This is a valid concern. Who is in control of USD and BTC funds?When a BTC payment is sent, are all funds kept in BTC, or are they all converted to USD? And who's account does the money go to? Asking because one setup let's the owner abscond with the funds (like pirate), the other keeps the funds in the company. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bitcoindaddy on September 20, 2012, 05:19:24 PM I'm seeing the sandpaper-ing of the chips in the original BFL single in a new light now that I know about the founder's past....
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: SLok on September 20, 2012, 06:08:06 PM Is sonny going to make his previous victims whole ? That's what the justice system is supposed to do. Ripping off little old ladies then being free and clear to raise millions of dollars while his victims live off noodles because he stole their pension money isn't justice at all. I liked the "little old ladies" part though. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bigasic on September 20, 2012, 06:28:56 PM I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it.. I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised.
Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K) Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry... Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought... So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business.. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on September 20, 2012, 06:41:02 PM I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it.. I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised. Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K) Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry... Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought... So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business.. Would you consider the following possibility: some (or most) of the $25M have not been recovered, and are now being laundered through BFL. If you are comfortable with this possibility, how about its impact on the legitimate ASIC developers? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: greyhawk on September 20, 2012, 06:48:05 PM I would like to know more about his involvement with Laissez Faire City, James Orlin Grabbe and thus the KGB as outlined in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: TheSeven on September 20, 2012, 06:56:38 PM I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it.. I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised. Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K) Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry... Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought... So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business.. Please stay on topic, i.e. post only questions to be asked, this thread clearly isn't supposed to end up in a continuation of that recent flamewar. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bigasic on September 20, 2012, 07:01:30 PM I agree with almost everything that David spitzer has said... As long as we get our machines and they function as promised, I see no fraud. Also, EVERY story has 2 sides to it.. I have a HUGE investment into BFL as some know. Does Sonny's background concern me? sure, but until they don't deliver (or lie). I am confident in my investment. I have many singles performing just as advertised. Im not a lawyer, but I play one on tv (J/K) Seriously, If I had a checkered past, I too, wouldn't want it known, especially starting a business, people assume too much. He deserves a second chance. As long as he has learned from his mistakes and moves forward in an honest fashion, I see no reason to worry... Once the Asics start deliver, Sonnys past will be a distant thought... So, until I have a valid reason not to support BFL, i will continue to do so... Past mistakes are just that, past. Now, had this come to light before BFL started to deliver, I would have probably sing a different tune. They hadn't proved anything, but they since have. Yes they have had their bumps in the road, but I don't know of one start up that has run totally smooth in its first years. Since they have been providing the singles and mini rigs, I come to the conclusion that they are trying to run an honest, profitable business.. Would you consider the following possibility: some (or most) of the $25M have not been recovered, and are now being laundered through BFL. If you are comfortable with this possibility, how about its impact on the legitimate ASIC developers? I can guarantee you that he plead guilty because of the huge costs he would have had to plead innocent and go to trial. Im not saying people got screwed out of money, its obvious that is the case. I am not in a place to judge him on what he should/would pay back. His part may have been big or extremely small. He served his time, paid his fine ( I assume) and should get on with his life.. All that is important to me is that BFL is ran legally... If anything that proves to the contrary, then i may change my tune.. But, to keep arguing that Sonny and BFL are a scam is crazy.. So far, I have not heard of one person not receiving what they have been promised. In fact, i have been quite impressed with their products... Im not condoning any illegal actions. We know know the story.. What good is it to start hashing (pun intended) out all the facts of the case? My main concern is that BFL be honest in all their dealings. What happened in the past is just that, the past... Edit: no flame ware intended. I, too, want to be focused on BLF's progress, etc Also, now the cat is out of the bag, I would think that BFL will be more transparent.. Why not list the names of all those that are in charge of BFL, etc. That is what I would like to know.. Who is the CEO, etc.. and the basic structure of how the company is ran... Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Inaba on September 20, 2012, 07:10:25 PM I have sent Sonny's response in a PM to Psilan to post. We are waiting for Theymos to get BFL_Sonny out of Newbie jail, then he will take over and I won't be the go-between anymore. Hopefully Psilan will get the response posted ASAP.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 07:35:36 PM Posted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110786.msg1206136#msg1206136
Thanks Inaba/Sonny. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bitcoindaddy on September 20, 2012, 07:41:02 PM Please stay on topic, i.e. post only questions to be asked, this thread clearly isn't supposed to end up in a continuation of that recent flamewar. What do you expect when the old thread gets locked? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: greyhawk on September 20, 2012, 07:42:53 PM I came to know my real father only as an adult. So when I got the opportunity to know him better, I was eager and curious. His name was James Ray Houston (the focus of the indictment). He was very charismatic and had a wild past from having ran for governor in Nevada. At one time he had a Lear jet with his picture on the tail. He'd gone broke and rich several times since and had a zillion GREAT stories to tell. I was completely enamored. At that time he had been building a business bundling lottery tickets and selling shares of ownership in their potential winnings. He moved to simply guaranteeing the ticket results on his own via re-insurance pools (US Pattent application number US 2004/0058726 A1). At some point after that it became clear to him that he could use my company's software system and sportsbook license to clarify legality and allow his customers to bet on the outcome of a lottery without buying a lottery ticket. . So instead of "I bet the Giants win by 7", it's "I bet the NY Lottery pick 3 is 4-7-2". Jesus Christ, it's a 1930s numbers racket. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 07:48:07 PM Please stay on topic, i.e. post only questions to be asked, this thread clearly isn't supposed to end up in a continuation of that recent flamewar. What do you expect when the old thread gets locked? Here is a thread on the subject for chit chat :). Bring any questions back if you want them answered, i'm not sure if BFL_Sonny will post in all threads. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0 Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Xfinity on September 20, 2012, 07:48:26 PM Thanks for the response BFL. I liked what I read and you still have my confidence and paid orders.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bitcoindaddy on September 20, 2012, 07:48:32 PM I feel like I know more now about BFL than in the previous year combined. I hope you continue to operate BFL in an open manner.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: SgtSpike on September 20, 2012, 07:50:38 PM Why is allowing people to bet on the outcome of lotteries illegal? Because the government said so? Do you also consider it morally wrong? Why?
I wouldn't expect such an outcry from people who are actively making use of similar illegal services (betsofbitco.in). This is fascinating. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 20, 2012, 07:52:34 PM Why is allowing people to bet on the outcome of lotteries illegal? Because the government said so? Do you also consider it morally wrong? Why? Please read everything. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bigasic on September 20, 2012, 08:37:15 PM See, I told you that there are 2 sides to every argument. And i was also right that he accepted the deal because of the possibility of getting screwed totally, even if he was not guilty....
I would consider the matter closed.. I accept his answer and will continue to support BFL 100 percent.. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: fizzisist on September 20, 2012, 09:20:37 PM Thanks for the response BFL. I liked what I read and you still have my confidence and paid orders. Did you read the public documents describing the crime he was convicted of? It doesn't seem to match Sonny's description at all, and it is truly heinous. A good place to start is the affidavit here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1207144#msg1207144 Mr. Vleisides, are you saying that all of that evidence was fabricated? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: repentance on September 20, 2012, 09:22:56 PM Good to see the community is finally starting to look out for itself. It's a pity that this due diligence wasn't done until after BFL took so many pre-orders. This community needs to learn to do its research before blindly handing over money to new players. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: blakdawg on September 20, 2012, 10:11:10 PM It is totally fucking unreasonable to expect the BTC community to overlook the giant gaps between the indictment and affidavits and Sonny's story unless he posts at least one picture of a puppy or a kitten; preferably in a sock, hanging from a clothesline.
Does he have no respect for us at all? Does he think we are just a bunch of morons who will fall for a sappy story WITH NO ANIMAL PICTURES? No $ from me until I see some baby animals. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: SLok on September 20, 2012, 10:12:32 PM Good to see the community is finally starting to look out for itself. It's a pity that this due diligence wasn't done until after BFL took so many pre-orders. This community needs to learn to do its research before blindly handing over money to new players. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Inaba on September 20, 2012, 10:17:17 PM Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Kaliecious on September 20, 2012, 10:23:19 PM Cute pic! Ii thought it was a new concept for pig in aa second there.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Inaba on September 20, 2012, 10:30:22 PM Two for one!
http://pooppeepuke.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/297573_10100631069678109_816827_60090802_862004612_n1.jpg Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MrTeal on September 20, 2012, 10:45:17 PM Is the town hall meeting still being planned, or is the statement given by Sonny going to be BFL's response to this?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: blakdawg on September 20, 2012, 11:22:43 PM Two for one! http://pooppeepuke.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/297573_10100631069678109_816827_60090802_862004612_n1.jpg A cute baby wearing a pig beanie? I'm ready to set Charles Manson free. Open the gates! Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 21, 2012, 05:59:10 AM Questions not going ahead? Just that post? Or preparing to answer?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: sebicas on September 21, 2012, 06:05:35 AM Questions not going ahead? Just that post? Or preparing to answer? I think is a good time for BFL to start releasing some information about their ASICs... we when asking for months and got nothing... I think people wouldn't be as worried if they at least comunicate properly the progress & expected delivery day of their new products. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: penetration on September 21, 2012, 06:13:59 AM why even pre order when they're like 5k behind?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Xfinity on September 21, 2012, 07:09:48 AM Thanks for the response BFL. I liked what I read and you still have my confidence and paid orders. Did you read the public documents describing the crime he was convicted of? It doesn't seem to match Sonny's description at all, and it is truly heinous. A good place to start is the affidavit here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg1207144#msg1207144 I have read everything and drawn my own business conclusion that I won't cancel my orders at this time. Everything in life involves a certain risk and I only invest money I can afford to loose (even if I don't like to loosing money and I would imagine nobody does). Everyone must make up their own mind how to proceed. I have done so. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: SgtSpike on September 21, 2012, 03:19:42 PM why even pre order when they're like 5k behind? I certainly wouldn't right now.Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: crazy_rabbit on September 21, 2012, 04:43:47 PM I like what I have read and I'm satisfied as well.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bogart on September 21, 2012, 04:51:47 PM I like what I have read and I'm satisfied as well. Just curious, do you have a vested interest in BFL successfully shipping an ASIC mining solution? IOW, did you preorder from them, and if so how heavily? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: kroneko on September 21, 2012, 05:29:48 PM I like what I have read and I'm satisfied as well. Just curious, do you have a vested interest in BFL successfully shipping an ASIC mining solution? IOW, did you preorder from them, and if so how heavily? Realistically I don't think you're going to find any miner currently who doesn't have at least some bias on their stance with BFL delivering or not. Those that pre-ordered of course have a bias (especially related to the amount they pre-ordered), as well as those heavily invested in non-ASIC mining not wanting their mining profits to drop. I think all of the additional attention that's being brought to BFL is due to FUD on their delivery, and unfortunately we'll just have to wait to see how it pans out. (For the record I have pre-ordered from BFL - so there's my bias on the situation) Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Inaba on September 21, 2012, 06:12:49 PM Sonny will answer some or all of the questions in the third post in this thread as time permits. I hope today (and I am encouraging that time frame).
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: BitcoinINV on September 21, 2012, 07:56:15 PM Have you always had 229 g/h Inaba?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: jwzguy on September 21, 2012, 08:13:21 PM Have you always had 229 g/h Inaba? No one has "always had" any amount of computing power.Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: freeAgent on September 21, 2012, 08:14:53 PM Have you always had 229 g/h Inaba? It's showing about 470GH/s right now. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: BitcoinINV on September 21, 2012, 08:19:10 PM He said he would not use butterfly labs to his advantage as a miner? or did I read that wrong? Or did he get rich?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: dooferorg on September 21, 2012, 08:44:39 PM A glance at http://www.bitcoincharts.com/ seems to indicate that everyone's 'slice of the pie' just got a whole lot smaller.
I see Inaba is mining the crap out of the new ASICs before shipping them... Snapshot at: 9/21/12 4:45PM EST http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/fyp22q2.png/ Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: BitcoinINV on September 21, 2012, 08:49:37 PM Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else! A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself. Just saying... should stick to the plan man... it looks bad to keep your word. Don't look like your missing out lol Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bogart on September 21, 2012, 08:51:51 PM Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else! A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself. So how big was your mining footprint exactly when you made that statement? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: SgtSpike on September 21, 2012, 08:54:29 PM He said he would not use butterfly labs to his advantage as a miner? or did I read that wrong? Or did he get rich? He is mining on behalf of other people who are planning to upgrade and elected not to have their units shipped to them, but instead have Josh mine for them. This saves them the time lag between shipping the old units back and receiving ASICs, as well as shipment-back costs.A glance at http://www.bitcoincharts.com/ seems to indicate that everyone's 'slice of the pie' just got a whole lot smaller. See above. He is not mining on ASICs.I see Inaba is mining the crap out of the new ASICs before shipping them... Snapshot at: 9/21/12 4:45PM EST http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/fyp22q2.png/ Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else! A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself. Just saying... should stick to the plan man... it looks bad to keep your word. Don't look like your missing out lol Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: BitcoinINV on September 21, 2012, 08:57:05 PM Ok that makes sense, just looked funny. I had not read the other threads with the info in it. But why would he only mine with them sometimes? Whats with the increase and drops in hashrate, if he is mining for someone, Would he not keep it on 24/7?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: color on September 21, 2012, 09:00:46 PM Josh from Butterfly Labs @ Bitcoin Conference 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT-smMzg54k&feature=colike edit not my video /edit Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: SgtSpike on September 21, 2012, 09:03:11 PM Ok that makes sense, just looked funny. I had not read the other threads with the info in it. But why would he only mine with them sometimes? Whats with the increase and drops in hashrate, if he is mining for someone, Would he not keep it on 24/7? I think he's hopping between pools?Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bogart on September 21, 2012, 11:00:02 PM He said he would not use butterfly labs to his advantage as a miner? or did I read that wrong? Or did he get rich? He is mining on behalf of other people who are planning to upgrade and elected not to have their units shipped to them, but instead have Josh mine for them. This saves them the time lag between shipping the old units back and receiving ASICs, as well as shipment-back costs.So they are already receiving ppls trade-ins while they have yet to ship a single ASIC? This should go without saying, but... Do you know this for a fact (your statement above that Inaba is mining on customers' behalf using their traded-in FPGAs), or are you guessing? Can you cite a source? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: fuuka on September 21, 2012, 11:22:59 PM I was planning to pre-order (or just order...) once pictures of hardware had been posted. That's what I did with the singles.
Definitely selling my singles now. Not worth the risk, even with Paypal's shitty protection. BFL has always been a little shady, not giving timely updates being the worst of it, but this is too much. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: RHA on September 21, 2012, 11:27:25 PM He is mining on behalf of other people who are planning to upgrade and elected not to have their units shipped to them, but instead have Josh mine for them. This saves them the time lag between shipping the old units back and receiving ASICs, as well as shipment-back costs. So they are already receiving ppls trade-ins while they have yet to ship a single ASIC? No. They (BFL) will receive these trade-ins not earlier than in day when Inaba (datacenter operator) transport them to BFL office. It was organized near two months before Inaba was employed by BFL. Now he continues his earlier duties along with helping BFL as BFL_Josh. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on September 22, 2012, 07:20:13 AM I would like to know what specific functions Sonny carries out within BFL. Is he a director, president, owner, CEO, founder, employee, or a combination of some or all of the above? Also, what is the history of his involvement with BFL?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Rassah on September 22, 2012, 03:44:31 PM I would like to know what specific functions Sonny carries out within BFL. Is he a director, president, owner, CEO, founder, employee, or a combination of some or all of the above? Also, what is the history of his involvement with BFL? ^ +1. Unlike the other stupid questions, this is really the only one that matters. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MrTeal on September 22, 2012, 04:19:48 PM Q: Have customer preorder funds been used to fund development or inventory costs for the SC line, and if all or a supermajority of your customers requested a refund of their preorder would you be able to provide it?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bobitza on September 22, 2012, 04:29:04 PM Hey guys, maybe we should have some technical questions, so we don't turn this session into a 100% witch hunting meeting.
I would like to know: 1. Details on the delivery of first ASICs - are they still scheduled for end of October? - what are the risks to delivery dates? (i.e. we are waiting for some shipments that might or might not come) and what's the impact (will put us 2 weeks/months/years behind schedule) - is there a "cut-off" date for pre-orders? (aka a date after which the 1/3 shipping rule will no longer apply and is basically first come first served?) 2. Details on the future plans and products - what's the warranty period for the SCs? (I really hope there is one ...) - any ASIC v.2 planned in near future or full focus on production? Thanks. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Syke on September 22, 2012, 04:31:44 PM I would like to know what specific functions Sonny carries out within BFL. Is he a director, president, owner, CEO, founder, employee, or a combination of some or all of the above? Also, what is the history of his involvement with BFL? It's pretty clear from Sonny's message, "I am not a majority owner." (emphasis added), that he is not just an employee (as frequently implied by Inaba), but is actually an owner of the company. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: davidspitzer on September 22, 2012, 06:22:44 PM I read the account and it was well drafted. One can never be certain of every detail, but I have enjoyed the Singles I have now and if the the new gear performs on par or better, within its given specs, I will be completely satisfied. My personal opinion is that BFL is legitimate. I will hold that opinion until they prove otherwise. We can speculate and bandy about all sorts of theories, but only time will be a vindication of the truth.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 22, 2012, 11:32:32 PM Hey guys, maybe we should have some technical questions, so we don't turn this session into a 100% witch hunting meeting. I would like to know: 1. Details on the delivery of first ASICs - are they still scheduled for end of October? - what are the risks to delivery dates? (i.e. we are waiting for some shipments that might or might not come) and what's the impact (will put us 2 weeks/months/years behind schedule) - is there a "cut-off" date for pre-orders? (aka a date after which the 1/3 shipping rule will no longer apply and is basically first come first served?) 2. Details on the future plans and products - what's the warranty period for the SCs? (I really hope there is one ...) - any ASIC v.2 planned in near future or full focus on production? Thanks. Your answers can be found everywhere with a tool called search :). They have been answered multiple times. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Transisto on September 23, 2012, 12:30:38 AM Hey guys, maybe we should have some technical questions, so we don't turn this session into a 100% witch hunting meeting. I would like to know: 1. Details on the delivery of first ASICs - are they still scheduled for end of October? - what are the risks to delivery dates? (i.e. we are waiting for some shipments that might or might not come) and what's the impact (will put us 2 weeks/months/years behind schedule) - is there a "cut-off" date for pre-orders? (aka a date after which the 1/3 shipping rule will no longer apply and is basically first come first served?) 2. Details on the future plans and products - what's the warranty period for the SCs? (I really hope there is one ...) - any ASIC v.2 planned in near future or full focus on production? Thanks. Your answers can be found everywhere with a tool called search :). They have been answered multiple times. 5 question, Could you give me the 5 search term to enter were these are answered clearly in the first few results ? Thanks, not everyone is reading all BFL related threads. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on September 23, 2012, 04:59:32 AM I would like to know what specific functions Sonny carries out within BFL. Is he a director, president, owner, CEO, founder, employee, or a combination of some or all of the above? Also, what is the history of his involvement with BFL? It's pretty clear from Sonny's message, "I am not a majority owner." (emphasis added), that he is not just an employee (as frequently implied by Inaba), but is actually an owner of the company. ...but the majority owner was kind enough to let me use my uncle's address in KC on some corporation papers for That's it for now, for I gotta get back to penning cool responses to all the questions and concerns addressed thus far. Indy, Christie, and cousin Andrew say, "Hey!" With warm regards, Sonny BF Labs Group LLC http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8444/8014340353_a90aa0d69d.jpg Address used for Uncle Chris's and cousin Andrew's various domains names. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Kaliecious on September 23, 2012, 05:42:55 AM is that google maps? thats a damn good pic.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on September 23, 2012, 05:52:55 AM is that google maps? thats a damn good pic. Yes. Now I'm going to bed, hopefully to dream about Maria. ~Bruno~ Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: RHA on September 23, 2012, 01:46:20 PM (...) With warm regards, Sonny BF Labs Group LLC Hey, Phinnaeus Gage, do most of your earlier "findings" are just similar fabrications? Don't you think someone can take it seriously? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bobitza on September 23, 2012, 03:12:02 PM Hey guys, maybe we should have some technical questions, so we don't turn this session into a 100% witch hunting meeting. I would like to know: 1. Details on the delivery of first ASICs - are they still scheduled for end of October? - what are the risks to delivery dates? (i.e. we are waiting for some shipments that might or might not come) and what's the impact (will put us 2 weeks/months/years behind schedule) - is there a "cut-off" date for pre-orders? (aka a date after which the 1/3 shipping rule will no longer apply and is basically first come first served?) 2. Details on the future plans and products - what's the warranty period for the SCs? (I really hope there is one ...) - any ASIC v.2 planned in near future or full focus on production? Thanks. Your answers can be found everywhere with a tool called search :). They have been answered multiple times. I have read a lot of forum posts related to BFL and their ASICs but none has the info I'm looking for; most of the posts are people questioning if BFL can/will deliver. Are you telling me that BFL representatives responded with details on risk factors for delivery, pre-order details and info on future plans? Like with the current pre-orders and planned capacity we'll be shipping the 10,000 jalapeno by X date, etc. Yes, I know the official date is late October, early November. Yes, I read that they plan to ship all pre-orders before Christmas. Not very useful info if you ask me. I think it would be useful if the town hall meeting would give us answers on something product related, not just answers on the past and experiences of Soony V since childbirth. For now, this really looks like a witch hunt to me. They already got our money, not much we can do now but wait. I'm more interested in hearing exact details on what, when and how they would deliver and what can go wrong. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bogart on September 23, 2012, 06:48:10 PM They already got our money, not much we can do now but wait. You can insure against a loss, or double down. "Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013": http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=701 :D Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Syke on September 23, 2012, 08:02:31 PM What a lousy bet. BFL has promised shipments in Oct.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Rassah on September 23, 2012, 09:09:55 PM They already got our money, not much we can do now but wait. You can also get your money back, as apparently 3 people have asked for refunds and have received them. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: BitcoinINV on September 23, 2012, 10:22:17 PM I'm still trying to get why not pictures yet? I mean they have to be done with 1 right? Supposed to ship next month with out 1 being done to show? Maybe a proto-type or something? It's just too shady I would not pre-order anything without a picture or something along those lines first. The conference would have been a perfect place for a display but instead they brought last years models? What company does that? Most of the time they display stuff you can not get for months yet....
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bobitza on September 24, 2012, 01:35:27 AM I'm still trying to get why not pictures yet? The whole "who gets the asics out first gets rich" could be one of the reasons why BFL is not showing or talking too much about their devices. Let the competition think that they don't have anything ready ... Or they could be a scam :D I guess we'll find out pretty soon. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: greyhawk on September 24, 2012, 10:54:22 AM Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bitinvestor on September 24, 2012, 10:56:57 AM Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Desolator on September 24, 2012, 01:11:20 PM yes, because this reveals ALL their secrets:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p227/wizzerd911/jalapeno_zps24159a66.jpg (from their own facebook page, people) btw they're yet to adopt my vastly superior logo: http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p227/wizzerd911/butterfly-labs_zps5027bc4e.jpg Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on September 25, 2012, 07:03:53 AM Has Josh ever published his last name? The reason I'm asking is because I found a dated connection between a Josh and Bitforce and want to doubly make sure that what I discovered jives or, if the case may be, doesn't connect.
~Bruno~ Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: psilan on September 25, 2012, 07:05:39 AM It's all over the net, I don't think he's hiding one little bit.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: mufa23 on September 25, 2012, 07:12:54 AM Has Josh ever published his last name? The reason I'm asking is because I found a dated connection between a Josh and Bitforce and want to doubly make sure that what I discovered jives or, if the case may be, doesn't connect. I don't think he has. Unless his last name is Inaba? Joshua Inaba?~Bruno~ Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: RHA on September 25, 2012, 08:51:02 AM It is known to customers of BFL, who communicate by e-mail, because Josh answers with his full name.
If you don't know it you probably are not a customer. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MrTeal on September 25, 2012, 02:45:42 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bitinvestor on September 25, 2012, 02:49:05 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him? It might have been postponed by a month? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Syke on September 25, 2012, 04:19:26 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him? He'll answer in 4-6 weeks. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Starlightbreaker on September 25, 2012, 06:15:36 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him? He'll answer in 4-6 weeks. with all delays and whatnot, i guess it'll be around 2-3 months. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on September 26, 2012, 03:03:47 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him? It might have been postponed by a month? Let me see if I have this correct. A promise was made that Sonny will pen a response over the weekend, and it's still not published, by the same guy espousing product is forthcoming by the same entity who has delivered product late in the past. Luckily we're not talking about $9,000,000 USD mostly via Bitcoin in pre-orders, otherwise I would really be concern. ~Bruno~ Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: the_thing on September 26, 2012, 08:09:29 PM I would like to know what specific functions Sonny carries out within BFL. Is he a director, president, owner, CEO, founder, employee, or a combination of some or all of the above? Also, what is the history of his involvement with BFL? ^ +1. Unlike the other stupid questions, this is really the only one that matters. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on September 26, 2012, 08:21:29 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him? Electronic Frontier Foundation. As for Sonny K, hopefully BFL_Sonny will address that when he posts. As I understand it, he will be working on a response this weekend. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Rassah on September 26, 2012, 09:10:45 PM I would like to know what specific functions Sonny carries out within BFL. Is he a director, president, owner, CEO, founder, employee, or a combination of some or all of the above? Also, what is the history of his involvement with BFL? ^ +1. Unlike the other stupid questions, this is really the only one that matters. Yes I have. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on September 26, 2012, 09:15:49 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him? Electronic Frontier Foundation. As for Sonny K, hopefully BFL_Sonny will address that when he posts. As I understand it, he will be working on a response this weekend. Quote BFL_SonnyNewbie OnlinePosts: 2 IgnoreRe: Hi, my name is Sonny VleisidesSeptember 21, 2012, 07:13:37 PM #86Thank you all for your comments... both positive and negative. I see many of our competitors in this thread pushing their agenda which isn't surprising but still, there are some very reasonable posts with deserving questions. Overall, I appreciate the public's reason for concern and I will return and provide answers. Crickets. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on September 27, 2012, 03:57:31 PM So, whatever happened to Sonny answering the questions posed to him? Electronic Frontier Foundation. As for Sonny K, hopefully BFL_Sonny will address that when he posts. As I understand it, he will be working on a response this weekend. Quote BFL_SonnyNewbie OnlinePosts: 2 IgnoreRe: Hi, my name is Sonny VleisidesSeptember 21, 2012, 07:13:37 PM #86Thank you all for your comments... both positive and negative. I see many of our competitors in this thread pushing their agenda which isn't surprising but still, there are some very reasonable posts with deserving questions. Overall, I appreciate the public's reason for concern and I will return and provide answers. Crickets. Until Sonny Vleisides comes here and states otherwise, we can all now safely assume that Sonny K and Sonny Vleisides is one and the same. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Douris_Man_with_wax_tablet.jpg Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Syke on September 27, 2012, 06:39:16 PM Until Sonny Vleisides comes here and states otherwise, we can all now safely assume that Sonny K and Sonny Vleisides is one and the same. Be patient. It takes a lot of time to fabricate good-sounding replies to all the questions asked. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: benco on September 27, 2012, 07:00:56 PM 2. Details on the future plans and products - what's the warranty period for the SCs? (I really hope there is one ...) - any ASIC v.2 planned in near future or full focus on production? Thanks. I was seriously interested in buying 3 pc of their MiniRigSC, so I sent them an email with few questions. One of them related to warranty (length and the possibility of some kind of SLA). The answer was short - 6 months. For such expensive device I would expect extended warranty (even for extra money) and guaranted repair time. Am I alone? That was one of the reasons why I changed my mind and stop thinking about MiniRigSC..at least until there will be available on market with full specs. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: greyhawk on September 27, 2012, 07:06:31 PM That IS a good question. Are there no service level agreements available? ???
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: benco on September 27, 2012, 07:29:29 PM That IS a good question. Are there no service level agreements available? ??? According to what I got from them - no :-\ Standard 6 months warranty only, maybe Josh could explain in more details.. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: fbastage on September 27, 2012, 07:59:26 PM I would recommend that a concise list of questions be taken from this (and other?) threads and hosted elsewhere. This type of forum is too prone to noise and crosstalk.
I would also think questions could be subdivided into areas of interest, such as questions on the past legal conviction, questions on ASIC details, questions on delivery dates, questions on agreements and refunds. Linked/footnoted supporting evidence would be nice, and for claims (i.e. several people having received refunds) perhaps gpg signed statements from such people. A wiki would probably be ideal. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: repentance on September 27, 2012, 10:26:59 PM Until Sonny Vleisides comes here and states otherwise, we can all now safely assume that Sonny K and Sonny Vleisides is one and the same. That's a logical fallacy Phin - your premise doesn't support your conclusion. Sonny could come in here and tell you that they're two different people and be lying. Conversely, they may be two different people and Sonny's failure to state that doesn't change the reality. You can say that until Sonny comes here and states X that you are going to make certain assumptions, but it's not logically true that we can all now safely assume that your given conclusion is valid. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: greyhawk on September 28, 2012, 10:13:13 AM That IS a good question. Are there no service level agreements available? ??? According to what I got from them - no :-\ Standard 6 months warranty only, maybe Josh could explain in more details.. Wow. That is fucked up. I've never seen a hardware supplier selling industry hardware and not offering SLA. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MrTeal on September 28, 2012, 01:01:59 PM That IS a good question. Are there no service level agreements available? ??? According to what I got from them - no :-\ Standard 6 months warranty only, maybe Josh could explain in more details.. Wow. That is fucked up. I've never seen a hardware supplier selling industry hardware and not offering SLA. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: greyhawk on September 28, 2012, 01:04:13 PM To be fair, BFL is a pretty new company that's just had a big expansion. They aren't exactly IBM here. Doesn't matter. I buy a lot of services/products from software and hardware providers even as small as BFL, some even smaller, and all of them offer SLA. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: benco on September 28, 2012, 02:52:03 PM To be fair, BFL is a pretty new company that's just had a big expansion. They aren't exactly IBM here. That's true, but I really would like to know in advance, what should I do when $30k device stop working and I will not know, how long I have to wait for repair and how much will it cost (after warranty expiration). :) Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MrTeal on October 02, 2012, 04:21:38 PM So... When's the town hall going to happen, and when will Sonny finally get around to updating his thread?
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on October 02, 2012, 05:00:23 PM So... When's the town hall going to happen, and when will Sonny finally get around to updating his thread? Why don't you contact them and ask? I've given up on them. The BFL may think that's great, but it's not.Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bobitza on October 02, 2012, 05:56:13 PM There is a poll on their portal forum with a "final" list of candidates. I assume that Josh is waiting for that poll to close to announce the person.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on October 02, 2012, 06:01:17 PM There is a poll on their portal forum with a "final" list of candidates. I assume that Josh is waiting for that poll to close to announce the person. That has got nothing to do with this thread and has got everything to do with avoiding the questions asked here.Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: bobitza on October 02, 2012, 07:10:03 PM You're right. Sorry, I was under the impression is the other thread with the factory visit.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: franky1 on October 02, 2012, 07:22:28 PM here some more tin foil hat stuff to add into the mix.
sonny claims on the 15th of september 2010 he signed a guilty plea to 1 count of mail fruad then went home to his moms house in kansas.. Quote At the last minute, the prosecution calls for a meeting and tells me I can go home if I accept a single count of mail fraud. They would drop 23 charges and leave me with a simple postal violation (lesser count of mail fraud). After two and a half years, I thought about it and agreed. I signed and went home to my Mother's house in Kansas City. I sat there looking at the wall for a long time. I didn't feel like leaving the house much. It was difficult to get over the emotional loss. My life was ruined. Mom got me an account on match.com and encouraged me to date. I met a wonderful girl and we had a little boy. We named him Indy. My life continued and I started to look for a new project to begin life again. A fresh start. I'm on a good track now, trying to put the past behind me. Kind regards, Sonny Vleisides strange because he didnt ask permission to live away from the state of california until 3rd of may 2011..... http://www.scribd.com/doc/106602343/Probation-Transfer-of-Jurisdiction (http://www.scribd.com/doc/106602343/Probation-Transfer-of-Jurisdiction) secondly if you read all the other documents linked part of his orders are not to do certain types of business and not to contact anyone linked to the fraud. quite a few nice transcripts to read if interested personal message to sonny.. i hope your going to be a good little boy until september 2013 Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: SgtSpike on October 02, 2012, 08:53:46 PM ...as Bitcointalk.org becomes Sonny's de facto parole officer.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: niko on October 07, 2012, 05:56:02 PM Still nothing.
Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on October 10, 2012, 06:15:26 AM Time for some more questions.
1. How does a photographer in Kansas City team up with a rocket scientist in France to start a circuit board company and got lucky enough to have Josh on the team who just so happens to live in the KC area with his prior claim-to-fame being a data center operator? 2. Was Andrew Vleisides the actual person who signed up to Mt Gox or did another member of his family do for him? (from the email dump #35419) 3. Is Sonny K and Sonny Vleisides one and the same? This has yet to be answered. 4. Is Gabriel Vleisides' brother Sonny, and is it possible that Gabriel could be the mastermind behind BFL, for he seems to have the most knowledge when it comes to computers? http://americanroadmagazine.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=101&st=4820 (Posted 04 January 2008 - 12:09 AM) Quote Hello Road experts and connoisseurs, Is there any suggestions for Must see places and unique things to see for this route. ----> Houston to Kansas City (We will travel a few hours out of the way .... or more if worth it) this will be a 2 day or 3(or 4) day trip if the sites are compelling enough (depending on how long I keep his interest) **We will leave Houston Wednesday March 29th approximately. (not much time My brother will fly up to Houston (from Costa Rica) and meet me there. But I would like to show him a planned route with scenic points for him to agree with Monday or Tuesday via the Internet. (That would be nice, but not a necessary addition) Does streets and trips have an output option to send interactive info to someone who does not have the Program for collaboration? My brother and I live apart and this will be an important chance to do some interactive things together and have some fun. (I'm 36 and he his 34) We are young and active and enjoy history, unique strange things and I enjoy anything about Jesus Christ. Thanks for any help you can provide. You're fellow Road explorer, Gabriel p.s. I have Microsoft Streets and Trips 2005 that I'm trying to figure out. Is the 2006 version that much better as far as the scenic points database ? https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1176665789/gabriel-headshot-blueback_reasonably_small.jpg https://twitter.com/openinfoservice Quote European Coordinator - Global Education Conference -background in computers, technology and teaching experience.It's an honor to help people connect worldwide Kansas City, MO (United States · http://sites.google.com/site/gabrielvleisidesadvisorbio/ http://who.godaddy.com/whois.aspx?domain=openinfoservices.com&prog_id=GoDaddy Quote Registrant: OIS - Open Info Services 9817 Walnut st. Kansas City, MO 64114 US Domain name: OPENINFOSERVICES.COM Administrative Contact: AOS, Domains domains@hostek.com PO Box 701048 Tulsa, OK 74170-1048 US +1.19183927870 Technical Contact: Domains, AOS support@hostek.com PO Box 701048 Tulsa, OK 74170 US +1.9183927870 Fax: +1.8665655138 Registration Service Provider: HOSTEK.COM, support@hostek.com 9183927870 Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC. Record last updated on 01-Jul-2012. Record expires on 01-Jul-2013. Record created on 01-Jul-2011. Registrar Domain Name Help Center: http://tucowsdomains.com Domain servers in listed order: NS4.HOSTEK.COM NS3.HOSTEK.COM The 9817 Walnut st. address is Gabriel's home. http://www.linkedin.com/company/open-information-services Quote About Open information Services Web and Application development 15 years experience in computer consultation and support. Ambitious .NET programmer continually training for and updating industry leading certifications in Windows, Web and Database Development ( C# expertise). Conversational Spanish, Russian and Italian language ability with international business and volunteer experience. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: camosoul on November 11, 2012, 08:57:55 PM All the BFL haters' arguments boil down to "Blow me more or I hate you." Is that how you treat your wife/girlfriend, too?
A prison record means nothing in this day and age. Most governments have declared open war on basic human rights and have no interest in protecting anyone from anything. With so much money to be made on the prison industry, huge volumes of people are convicted and locked on nothing but the word of a cop and their inability to afford a defense; default guilty. The so-called 'justice system' has become nothing but a false prosecution racket. If you're not rich, you're guilty. Period. I put zero faith in what it does or says. A prison record is not a blemish. It is dangerous to be right when government is wrong. It doesn't make a person dirty or bad. Failure to defy that would surely make you so... Forget that bitcoin exists almost exclusively because of government's evil incursions? There would be no interest in BitCoin if government laws and currency were valid. Do you know how many class action suits I've gotten settlements for and had no idea I was even getting screwed in the first place? Sears. IBM. AT&T. Sony. Microsoft. Intel. Do you cast doubt on them to deliver their products? They screwed over billions of people! Anyway.... Does the product work? Have they delivered? The man takes no BS and I appreciate him for it. He's not a blowhard PR/CS type sucking your **** just because you cried about not getting your **** sucked. I appreciate a man who doesn't spread the burgeoning entitlement attitudes. Whine and scream, talk about your feelings, get free stuff... Just shut up. Prediction, speculation, or just plain making stuff up... The attitudes and behaviors presented here only solidify my faith in BFL. There is no reason to defend one's self from whining jerks that inflate irrelevant lies. BFL has delivered before. Setbacks with new technologies are not unusual. It happens to every tech company I've heard of. Pull your heads out of your asses and shut the hell up. You're not getting any free stuff out of it. The only way to be 100% is wait. Until then, it's juat a bunch of pointless words on the internet... How dare you waste my precious bandwidth with this crap! Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: 420 on November 11, 2012, 10:30:52 PM Expanding on camosoul's essay and just a main point we should all just deal with:
It's a personal choice if you want to pre-order from BFL, then it's a choice if you'd like to cancel your pre-order or demand a refund if you feel they are taking too long. Everything's voluntary. Just wait for new information to come out, it makes no sense arguing at this point; everything's been argued already. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: MinorMiner on November 12, 2012, 03:10:28 AM Expanding on camosoul's essay and just a main point we should all just deal with: It's a personal choice if you want to pre-order from BFL, then it's a choice if you'd like to cancel your pre-order or demand a refund if you feel they are taking too long. Everything's voluntary. Just wait for new information to come out, it makes no sense arguing at this point; everything's been argued already. Yea, so much BFL hate but noone is forcing you do business with anyone. ??? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Syke on November 12, 2012, 03:17:13 AM A prison record is not a blemish. Yes, because we all know that taking $19,000,000 from little old ladies is simply just the way a fine upstanding citizen makes a living. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: poon-TANG on November 12, 2012, 04:31:02 AM Expanding on camosoul's essay and just a main point we should all just deal with: It's a personal choice if you want to pre-order from BFL, then it's a choice if you'd like to cancel your pre-order or demand a refund if you feel they are taking too long. Everything's voluntary. Just wait for new information to come out, it makes no sense arguing at this point; everything's been argued already. Yea, so much BFL hate but noone is forcing you do business with anyone. ??? +1 who the F^&k cares. I don't. This guy doesnt owe you any answers. I know plenty of dirty business owners who should be in prison but just havent got caught yet. Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on August 21, 2013, 07:04:47 PM Please stay on topic, i.e. post only questions to be asked, this thread clearly isn't supposed to end up in a continuation of that recent flamewar. What do you expect when the old thread gets locked? Here is a thread on the subject for chit chat :). Bring any questions back if you want them answered, i'm not sure if BFL_Sonny will post in all threads. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0 We are sure now, aren't we? The most simplest question was question #1 in post #3 of this thread: Who is Sonny K.? What was the reply? http://www.premiumcrickets.com/images/products/crickets_fullgrown.jpg Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bicknellski on April 19, 2014, 05:08:13 AM http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/04/08/bitcoin-mining-class-action-lawsuit-butterfly-labs.html?page=2 (http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/04/08/bitcoin-mining-class-action-lawsuit-butterfly-labs.html?page=2)
Has this town hall been asleep for too long? My questions: 1. Are there any customers that can attest to the nature of the relationship with BFL? 2. With 2 active lawsuits against BFL does anyone that supported them in the past now wish to change their mind? 3. Should the community now work to inform the new members coming to Bitcointalk about the dangers of BFL? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: randomlove on April 19, 2014, 08:53:29 AM http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/04/08/bitcoin-mining-class-action-lawsuit-butterfly-labs.html?page=2 (http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/04/08/bitcoin-mining-class-action-lawsuit-butterfly-labs.html?page=2) Has this town hall been asleep for too long? My questions: 1. Are there any customers that can attest to the nature of the relationship with BFL? 2. With 2 active lawsuits against BFL does anyone that supported them in the past now wish to change their mind? 3. Should the community now work to inform the new members coming to Bitcointalk about the dangers of BFL? Shit dude,do you have a life or do you just dig through old posts spamming the forums with the same shit! I hate bfl and josh but you take it to a new plateau! And nothing will happen from any of them, the system is broke and they know that, seems like you still think it real! Sad! Its there for the rich (affluenza) and to keep 'scum' down in the farm (borders). China keeps their farm complacent, same with Russia so why do you think your not treated like animals either? But no, you go wave your flag like a patriotic moron and paying your taxes that fund all the bankers wars. Yes, all wars are bankers wars, ALL OF THEM! Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bicknellski on November 22, 2014, 04:20:11 PM http://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/1423058/bf-labs-inc (http://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/1423058/bf-labs-inc)
How long before BFL principals go to jail? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Bicknellski on November 22, 2014, 04:21:25 PM All the BFL haters' arguments boil down to "Blow me more or I hate you." Is that how you treat your wife/girlfriend, too? A prison record means nothing in this day and age. Most governments have declared open war on basic human rights and have no interest in protecting anyone from anything. With so much money to be made on the prison industry, huge volumes of people are convicted and locked on nothing but the word of a cop and their inability to afford a defense; default guilty. The so-called 'justice system' has become nothing but a false prosecution racket. If you're not rich, you're guilty. Period. I put zero faith in what it does or says. A prison record is not a blemish. It is dangerous to be right when government is wrong. It doesn't make a person dirty or bad. Failure to defy that would surely make you so... Forget that bitcoin exists almost exclusively because of government's evil incursions? There would be no interest in BitCoin if government laws and currency were valid. Do you know how many class action suits I've gotten settlements for and had no idea I was even getting screwed in the first place? Sears. IBM. AT&T. Sony. Microsoft. Intel. Do you cast doubt on them to deliver their products? They screwed over billions of people! Anyway.... Does the product work? Have they delivered? The man takes no BS and I appreciate him for it. He's not a blowhard PR/CS type sucking your **** just because you cried about not getting your **** sucked. I appreciate a man who doesn't spread the burgeoning entitlement attitudes. Whine and scream, talk about your feelings, get free stuff... Just shut up. Prediction, speculation, or just plain making stuff up... The attitudes and behaviors presented here only solidify my faith in BFL. There is no reason to defend one's self from whining jerks that inflate irrelevant lies. BFL has delivered before. Setbacks with new technologies are not unusual. It happens to every tech company I've heard of. Pull your heads out of your asses and shut the hell up. You're not getting any free stuff out of it. The only way to be 100% is wait. Until then, it's juat a bunch of pointless words on the internet... How dare you waste my precious bandwidth with this crap! How's that faith now buddy? Title: Re: TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs Post by: Pantheon on November 22, 2014, 05:36:55 PM all I care about is, why arent they in jail or paying back all those who lost the pre-order money.
I remember I had to sell my 1st 5ghs jalapeno I had bought from ebay just to remove the risk of my original pre-order i had. and that was like literally 1 year and half ago i think. |
