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Title: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: foold on July 16, 2015, 02:07:57 AM It's so sad, but as a stand-out scamcoin, not surpirsing.
Poloniex surely set itself back by taking a chance on an unfinished coin (or instigating the hype via the "team") I could be wrong, and when Midas is up and running, maybe it will be added to Gox. You never know! Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: Gillette on July 16, 2015, 05:55:37 AM What is Midas?
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: Snail2 on July 16, 2015, 08:01:24 AM What is Midas? An old story from Gox :). Basically a reference about promises what never comes true. (Gox was promising the deployment of this new Midas trading engine for very long time but that never happened. Midas was also supposed to be able to trade altcoins.) "Our new trading engine is finished and soon to be deployed after a couple of hardware updates. Code-named "Midas", we're currently bench-testing the engine at over 500,000 trades per second, but Midas is capable of much more than that. We're really looking forward to showing you what it can do, and are pretty certain you'll love it too." Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: aleix on July 16, 2015, 08:14:54 AM Monero is the most hyped coin ever IMHO. It's just a clone with no real innovation or actual development, full of holes (database, GuI, multisig, etc.). Even though the Monero supporters act like and they are the chosen to replace Bitcoin.
Really impressive how people can lose their perspective and critical view. (excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language) Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: DaveyJones on July 16, 2015, 10:50:46 AM Really impressive how people can lose their perspective and critical view. Always enjoyable coming from someone supporting Dash :D Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: HCLivess on July 16, 2015, 11:01:30 AM just like with HYP, they thought that constant spamming will attract suckers
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: aleix on July 16, 2015, 11:12:52 AM Really impressive how people can lose their perspective and critical view. Always enjoyable coming from someone supporting Dash :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem :-* (please stay on topic, I support Dash and other currencies) Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: NorrisK on July 16, 2015, 11:54:04 AM Monero is the most hyped coin ever IMHO. It's just a clone with no real innovation or actual development, full of holes (database, GuI, multisig, etc.). Even though the Monero supporters act like and they are the chosen to replace Bitcoin. Really impressive how people can lose their perspective and critical view. (excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language) The community might be smaller tha. You think and may consist many of shills who try to lure poor bunnies to buy.. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: J1mb0 on July 16, 2015, 12:38:16 PM Has anyone else noticed that everytime another alt does well in market price, or releases new, exciting features, - loads of spammy new Monero threads are started and old Monero self-moderated threads are bumped? Especially if the coin has anonymous features or is, Golly Gosh!, a cryptonote.
Threads like; monero at $20 ????? Monero Marketing: Is It Time? could monero replace bitcoin soon? That is, as well as the black-ops fud and propaganda campaigns. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: TrueCryptonaire on July 16, 2015, 12:48:16 PM People seem to be super excited on Monero. :-*
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: BagHolder010 on July 16, 2015, 01:26:11 PM People seem to be super excited on Monero. :-* No...more like tired of the smooth ' s hate/jealousy threads of many other coins and monero bagholder's creating tons of new accounts that they don't even use creative names anymore..."the dasher, tash, -"...as a developer stop hating and start doing some actual work like coding instead of copy paste.Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: J1mb0 on July 16, 2015, 01:50:01 PM People seem to be super excited on Monero. :-* Not at all. The bagholders are fearful and, despite the truth that Monero is an irrelvant clone shitcoin, they will spam and pump this forum with useless inane threads and one line fanboi bumps - ad nauseum. They have zero respect for Bitcoin or the alternative cryptocurrency community. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: generalizethis on July 16, 2015, 02:01:25 PM People seem to be super excited on Monero. :-* Not at all. The bagholders are fearful and, despite the truth that Monero is an irrelvant clone shitcoin, they will spam and pump this forum with useless inane threads and one line fanboi bumps - ad nauseum. They have zero respect for Bitcoin or the alternative cryptocurrency community. If you spent as much time buying Monero as you spend griping about it, you would feel good about were it is heading instead of threatened. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: DaveyJones on July 16, 2015, 02:46:50 PM Has anyone else noticed that everytime another alt does well in market price, or releases new, exciting features, - loads of spammy new Monero threads are started and old Monero self-moderated threads are bumped? Especially if the coin has anonymous features or is, Golly Gosh!, a cryptonote. Threads like; monero at $20 ????? Monero Marketing: Is It Time? could monero replace bitcoin soon? That is, as well as the black-ops fud and propaganda campaigns. too bad its most likely troll accounts who at first sight look supportish but you can clearly see an agenda with all popping out at once. Or super bullish people like TC or icebreaker... i donīt see the casual monero supporter doing such things... Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: digitalindustry on July 16, 2015, 02:48:02 PM People seem to be super excited on Monero. :-* Not at all. The bagholders are fearful and, despite the truth that Monero is an irrelvant clone shitcoin, they will spam and pump this forum with useless inane threads and one line fanboi bumps - ad nauseum. They have zero respect for Bitcoin or the alternative cryptocurrency community. this. basically a few "large" BTC baghoders did the numbers on the fake volume and realized that BTC is a dead cat with little bounce left. so they created this, now BTC is dropping and no one "took the bait" re Monero they will be giving each other sideways looks. maybe buy some Greek bonds guyz think of that Yield ! lolz Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: TrueCryptonaire on July 16, 2015, 03:00:56 PM People seem to be super excited on Monero. :-* Not at all. The bagholders are fearful and, despite the truth that Monero is an irrelvant clone shitcoin, they will spam and pump this forum with useless inane threads and one line fanboi bumps - ad nauseum. They have zero respect for Bitcoin or the alternative cryptocurrency community. If I sold now I would be selling around 0 profit/loss. I bought initially around 0.003-0.004 (added some more at teens during fall/winter 2014-2015) and sold around 0.003 most of my bag and now as the price is sub 0.002, I am slowly slowly accumulating and the more coins I get the more excited I become as I have realized the potential of Monero. Please, bear in mind, Monero community was able to hire a developer who has already started working with the code. Things are looking pretty bright IMO and I think it is just a matter of time when the coin will be introduced to Chinese people. They are going to adore it. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: TrueCryptonaire on July 16, 2015, 03:03:21 PM People seem to be super excited on Monero. :-* Not at all. The bagholders are fearful and, despite the truth that Monero is an irrelvant clone shitcoin, they will spam and pump this forum with useless inane threads and one line fanboi bumps - ad nauseum. They have zero respect for Bitcoin or the alternative cryptocurrency community. this. basically a few "large" BTC baghoders did the numbers on the fake volume and realized that BTC is a dead cat with little bounce left. so they created this, now BTC is dropping and no one "took the bait" re Monero they will be giving each other sideways looks. maybe buy some Greek bonds guyz think of that Yield ! lolz Greek bonds might actually pay you nicely if you buy them now... Seems they are going to bail out it one more time, but I guess it is the last chance for Greece as it is not easy to do politcally. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: astrobitcoin on July 16, 2015, 05:31:58 PM the monero propaganda works only for total noobs and some desperate soul of this boards, we all know it
serious and smart users / investors know how the situation really is and the actual value of the coin Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: generalizethis on July 16, 2015, 05:55:47 PM the monero propaganda works only for total noobs and some desperate soul of this boards, we all know it serious and smart users / investors know how the situation really is and the actual value of the coin So you are saying that Risto isn't a serious and smart user/investor? Or maybe Gmaxwell is a moron for having a Monero address on his profile page? Or maybe you are saying the most vocal of all bitcoiners, American Pegasus, doesn't have a clue about backing new tech? Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: TrueCryptonaire on July 16, 2015, 06:07:38 PM the monero propaganda works only for total noobs and some desperate soul of this boards, we all know it serious and smart users / investors know how the situation really is and the actual value of the coin Put your actions where your mouth is. In Poloniex it is possible to margin trade. If you think Monero will fail badly, short it down to the hell. It is as low as it can go. I am not able to lower my lending rates anymore as it has reached its lowest limitations. Talking is cheap. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: sofu on July 16, 2015, 06:35:24 PM While bagholders are shilling Monero the smart people are buying Vanilla ;D
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: ArticMine on July 16, 2015, 06:47:53 PM For those interested in selling XMR short Poloniex does offer margin trading. https://www.poloniex.com/marginTrading#btc_xmr (https://www.poloniex.com/marginTrading#btc_xmr) One can borrow XMR at very attractive rates as TrueCryptonaire has pointed out and sell the XMR for XBT.
Disclaimer: This is not investment advice. Short selling and margin trading can lead to losses far in excess of the initial investment and should only be attempted by experienced sophisticated investors after receiving appropriate professional advice. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: newb4now on July 16, 2015, 06:52:27 PM While bagholders are shilling Monero the smart people are buying Vanilla ;D I prefer a coin with a cryptographically proven protocol and and a large experienced dev team instead of putting my trust in one unknown developer with nobody else to take over when/if he decides to leave Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: iCEBREAKER on July 16, 2015, 07:40:59 PM bagholders are shilling Monero I prefer a coin with a cryptographically proven protocol and and a large experienced dev team instead of putting my trust in one unknown developer with nobody else to take over when/if he decides to leave Good points. Let's elaborate on them: Monero uses a cryptographically proven protocol (https://downloads.getmonero.org/whitepaper_review.pdf) and sports a large experienced active dev team (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/graphs/contributors). Monero: 1034 commits (not including work on developer forks that isn't merged yet). Monero core and community innovations over the past year: 1. Electrum seed wallets 2. Optimized (and documented) proof-of-work algorithm 3. Database implementation with negligible memory requirements 4. 32-bit support and fixes, including embedded platforms like RPi2 5. 5+ third party GUI wallets 6. Merchant framework 7. MyMonero web wallet with client-side javascript cryptography and private keys never sent to the server 8. GUI skeleton 9. Portable compact blockchain format. 10. Integrated addresses (no more payment IDs for routine transactions!) 11. Several MRL white papers analyzing and improving anonymity. 12. High level Python implementation of crypto for research 13. Watch only (view key) wallets. In progress: 1. Smart mining 2. Non-retarded APIs 3. Improved difficulty retargeting 4. Improved privacy of transaction amounts 5. Multisig compatible with ring sigs 6. Rolling hard fork deployment scheme Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: iCEBREAKER on July 16, 2015, 07:46:31 PM Poloniex surely set itself back by taking a chance on an unfinished coin (or instigating the hype via the "team") Monero is finished in that it does what is says on the box: provide secure, private, and untraceable transfers of value. It's "unfinished" only in the sense that Bitcoin and civilization are unfinished experiments in progress. Are you shorting XMR? No? Why not? People will lend you their XMR for practically nothing (https://poloniex.com/lending#XMR), so you have no reason not to, besides cowardice and lack of conviction. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: BagHolder010 on July 16, 2015, 08:42:04 PM lol I went to google to search iCEBREAKER true identity since I heard he scammed others before in a company he worked at or owned and I found this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=755840.90;wap2
Looks like Monero fake forum activity is here since way back in 2014, and looks like Fluffy and Smooth didn't know what to do after copy pasting Byte lol because they still don't know how to create a GUI wallet for themselves or create anything meaningful for our beloved Crypto World. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: iCEBREAKER on July 16, 2015, 09:00:49 PM looks like Fluffy and Smooth didn't know what to do after copy pasting Byte lol because they still don't know how to create a GUI wallet The Official GUI wallet exists in skeleton form (http://imgur.com/a/ERheR). Progress will increase after DB is done. Fluffy and Smooth are only 2 of XMR's ~29 devs (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/graphs/contributors). You must have missed NoodleDoodle's massive latest commit: Quote https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/337 Bockchain: 1. Optim: Multi-thread long-hash computation when encountering groups of blocks. 2. Optim: Cache verified txs and return result from cache instead of re-checking whenever possible. 3. Optim: Preload output-keys when encoutering groups of blocks. Sort by amount and global-index before bulk querying database and multi-thread when possible. 4. Optim: Disable double spend check on block verification, double spend is already detected when trying to add blocks. 5. Optim: Multi-thread signature computation whenever possible. 6. Patch: Disable locking (recursive mutex) on called functions from check_tx_inputs which causes slowdowns (only seems to happen on ubuntu/VMs??? Reason: TBD) 7. Optim: Removed looped full-tx hash computation when retrieving transactions from pool (Huh). 8. Optim: Cache difficulty/timestamps (735 blocks) for next-difficulty calculations so that only 2 db reads per new block is needed when a new block arrives (instead of 1470 reads). Berkeley-DB: 1. Fix: 32-bit data errors causing wrong output global indices and failure to send blocks to peers (etc). 2. Fix: Unable to pop blocks on reorganize due to transaction errors. 3. Patch: Large number of transaction aborts when running multi-threaded bulk queries. 4. Patch: Insufficient locks error when running full sync. 5. Patch: Incorrect db stats when returning from an immediate exit from "pop block" operation. 6. Optim: Add bulk queries to get output global indices. 7. Optim: Modified output_keys table to store public_key+unlock_time+height for single transaction lookup (vs 3) 8. Optim: Used output_keys table retrieve public_keys instead of going through output_amounts->output_txs+output_indices->txs->output:public_key 9. Optim: Added thread-safe buffers used when multi-threading bulk queries. 10. Optim: Added support for nosync/write_nosync options for improved performance (*see --db-sync-mode option for details) 11. Mod: Added checkpoint thread and auto-remove-logs option. 12. *Now usable on 32-bit systems like RPI2. LMDB: 1. Optim: Added custom comparison for 256-bit key tables (minor speed-up, TBD: get actual effect) 2. Optim: Modified output_keys table to store public_key+unlock_time+height for single transaction lookup (vs 3) 3. Optim: Used output_keys table retrieve public_keys instead of going through output_amounts->output_txs+output_indices->txs->output:public_key 4. Optim: Added support for sync/writemap options for improved performance (*see --db-sync-mode option for details) 5. Mod: Auto resize to +1GB instead of multiplier x1.5 ETC: 1. Minor optimizations for slow-hash for ARM (RPI2). Incomplete. 2. Fix: 32-bit saturation bug when computing next difficulty on large blocks. [PENDING ISSUES] 1. Berkely db has a very slow "pop-block" operation. This is very noticeable on the RPI2 as it sometimes takes > 10 MINUTES to pop a block during reorganization. This does not happen very often however, most reorgs seem to take a few seconds but it possibly depends on the number of outputs present. TBD. 2. Berkeley db, possible bug "unable to allocate memory". TBD. [NEW OPTIONS] (*Currently all enabled for testing purposes) 1. --fast-block-sync arg=[0:1] (default: 1) a. 0 = Compute long hash per block (may take a while depending on CPU) b. 1 = Skip long-hash and verify blocks based on embedded known good block hashes (faster, minimal CPU dependence) 2. --db-sync-mode arg=[[safe|fast|fastest]:[sync|async]:[nblocks_per_sync]] (default: fastest:async:1000) a. safe = fdatasync/fsync (or equivalent) per stored block. Very slow, but safest option to protect against power-out/crash conditions. b. fast/fastest = Enables asynchronous fdatasync/fsync (or equivalent). Useful for battery operated devices or STABLE systems with UPS and/or systems with battery backed write cache/solid state cache. Fast - Write meta-data but defer data flush. Fastest - Defer meta-data and data flush. Sync - Flush data after nblocks_per_sync and wait. Async - Flush data after nblocks_per_sync but do not wait for the operation to finish. 3. --prep-blocks-threads arg=[n] (default: 4 or system max threads, whichever is lower) Max number of threads to use when computing long-hash in groups. 4. --show-time-stats arg=[0:1] (default: 1) Show benchmark related time stats. 5. --db-auto-remove-logs arg=[0:1] (default: 1) For berkeley-db only. Auto remove logs if enabled. **Note: lmdb and berkeley-db have changes to the tables and are not compatible with official git head version. At the moment, you need a full resync to use this optimized version. [PERFORMANCE COMPARISON] **Some figures are approximations only. Using a baseline machine of an i7-2600K+SSD+(with full pow computation): 1. The optimized lmdb/blockhain core can process blocks up to 585K for ~1.25 hours + download time, so it usually takes 2.5 hours to sync the full chain. 2. The current head with memory can process blocks up to 585K for ~4.2 hours + download time, so it usually takes 5.5 hours to sync the full chain. 3. The current head with lmdb can process blocks up to 585K for ~32 hours + download time and usually takes 36 hours to sync the full chain. Averate procesing times (with full pow computation): lmdb-optimized: 1. tx_ave = 2.5 ms / tx 2. block_ave = 5.87 ms / block memory-official-repo: 1. tx_ave = 8.85 ms / tx 2. block_ave = 19.68 ms / block lmdb-official-repo (0f4a036) 1. tx_ave = 47.8 ms / tx 2. block_ave = 64.2 ms / block **Note: The following data denotes processing times only (does not include p2p download time) lmdb-optimized processing times (with full pow computation): 1. Desktop, Quad-core / 8-threads 2600k (8Mb) - 1.25 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). 2. Laptop, Dual-core / 4-threads U4200 (3Mb) - 4.90 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). 3. Embedded, Quad-core / 4-threads Z3735F (2x1Mb) - 12.0 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). lmdb-optimized processing times (with per-block-checkpoint) 1. Desktop, Quad-core / 8-threads 2600k (8Mb) - 10 minutes processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). berkeley-db optimized processing times (with full pow computation) 1. Desktop, Quad-core / 8-threads 2600k (8Mb) - 1.8 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). 2. RPI2. Improved from estimated 3 months(Huh) into 2.5 days (*Need 2AMP supply + Clock:1Ghz + [usb+ssd] to achieve this speed) (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). berkeley-db optimized processing times (with per-block-checkpoint) 1. RPI2. 12-15 hours (*Need 2AMP supply + Clock:1Ghz + [usb+ssd] to achieve this speed) (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). ...and smooth's brief summary of XMR advancements over BCN: Monero: 1034 commits (not including work on developer forks that isn't merged yet). Monero core and community innovations over the past year: 1. Electrum seed wallets 2. Optimized (and documented) proof-of-work algorithm 3. Database implementation with negligible memory requirements 4. 32-bit support and fixes, including embedded platforms like RPi2 5. 5+ third party GUI wallets 6. Merchant framework 7. MyMonero web wallet with client-side javascript cryptography and private keys never sent to the server 8. GUI skeleton 9. Portable compact blockchain format. 10. Integrated addresses (no more payment IDs for routine transactions!) 11. Several MRL white papers analyzing and improving anonymity. 12. High level Python implementation of crypto for research 13. Watch only (view key) wallets. In progress: 1. Smart mining 2. Non-retarded APIs 3. Improved difficulty retargeting 4. Improved privacy of transaction amounts 5. Multisig compatible with ring sigs 6. Rolling hard fork deployment scheme Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: BagHolder010 on July 16, 2015, 09:06:33 PM 29 Devs and nothing still? o.O :o I know one guy who did far beyond that of course you know who...someone who needs to go to jail LOL
29 cry*p*to into forums type of devs. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: newb4now on July 16, 2015, 09:14:22 PM looks like Fluffy and Smooth didn't know what to do after copy pasting Byte lol because they still don't know how to create a GUI wallet The Official GUI wallet exists in skeleton form (http://imgur.com/a/ERheR). Progress will increase after DB is done. Fluffy and Smooth are only 2 of XMR's ~29 devs (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/graphs/contributors). You must have missed NoodleDoodle's massive latest commit: Quote https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/337 Bockchain: 1. Optim: Multi-thread long-hash computation when encountering groups of blocks. 2. Optim: Cache verified txs and return result from cache instead of re-checking whenever possible. 3. Optim: Preload output-keys when encoutering groups of blocks. Sort by amount and global-index before bulk querying database and multi-thread when possible. 4. Optim: Disable double spend check on block verification, double spend is already detected when trying to add blocks. 5. Optim: Multi-thread signature computation whenever possible. 6. Patch: Disable locking (recursive mutex) on called functions from check_tx_inputs which causes slowdowns (only seems to happen on ubuntu/VMs??? Reason: TBD) 7. Optim: Removed looped full-tx hash computation when retrieving transactions from pool (Huh). 8. Optim: Cache difficulty/timestamps (735 blocks) for next-difficulty calculations so that only 2 db reads per new block is needed when a new block arrives (instead of 1470 reads). Berkeley-DB: 1. Fix: 32-bit data errors causing wrong output global indices and failure to send blocks to peers (etc). 2. Fix: Unable to pop blocks on reorganize due to transaction errors. 3. Patch: Large number of transaction aborts when running multi-threaded bulk queries. 4. Patch: Insufficient locks error when running full sync. 5. Patch: Incorrect db stats when returning from an immediate exit from "pop block" operation. 6. Optim: Add bulk queries to get output global indices. 7. Optim: Modified output_keys table to store public_key+unlock_time+height for single transaction lookup (vs 3) 8. Optim: Used output_keys table retrieve public_keys instead of going through output_amounts->output_txs+output_indices->txs->output:public_key 9. Optim: Added thread-safe buffers used when multi-threading bulk queries. 10. Optim: Added support for nosync/write_nosync options for improved performance (*see --db-sync-mode option for details) 11. Mod: Added checkpoint thread and auto-remove-logs option. 12. *Now usable on 32-bit systems like RPI2. LMDB: 1. Optim: Added custom comparison for 256-bit key tables (minor speed-up, TBD: get actual effect) 2. Optim: Modified output_keys table to store public_key+unlock_time+height for single transaction lookup (vs 3) 3. Optim: Used output_keys table retrieve public_keys instead of going through output_amounts->output_txs+output_indices->txs->output:public_key 4. Optim: Added support for sync/writemap options for improved performance (*see --db-sync-mode option for details) 5. Mod: Auto resize to +1GB instead of multiplier x1.5 ETC: 1. Minor optimizations for slow-hash for ARM (RPI2). Incomplete. 2. Fix: 32-bit saturation bug when computing next difficulty on large blocks. [PENDING ISSUES] 1. Berkely db has a very slow "pop-block" operation. This is very noticeable on the RPI2 as it sometimes takes > 10 MINUTES to pop a block during reorganization. This does not happen very often however, most reorgs seem to take a few seconds but it possibly depends on the number of outputs present. TBD. 2. Berkeley db, possible bug "unable to allocate memory". TBD. [NEW OPTIONS] (*Currently all enabled for testing purposes) 1. --fast-block-sync arg=[0:1] (default: 1) a. 0 = Compute long hash per block (may take a while depending on CPU) b. 1 = Skip long-hash and verify blocks based on embedded known good block hashes (faster, minimal CPU dependence) 2. --db-sync-mode arg=[[safe|fast|fastest]:[sync|async]:[nblocks_per_sync]] (default: fastest:async:1000) a. safe = fdatasync/fsync (or equivalent) per stored block. Very slow, but safest option to protect against power-out/crash conditions. b. fast/fastest = Enables asynchronous fdatasync/fsync (or equivalent). Useful for battery operated devices or STABLE systems with UPS and/or systems with battery backed write cache/solid state cache. Fast - Write meta-data but defer data flush. Fastest - Defer meta-data and data flush. Sync - Flush data after nblocks_per_sync and wait. Async - Flush data after nblocks_per_sync but do not wait for the operation to finish. 3. --prep-blocks-threads arg=[n] (default: 4 or system max threads, whichever is lower) Max number of threads to use when computing long-hash in groups. 4. --show-time-stats arg=[0:1] (default: 1) Show benchmark related time stats. 5. --db-auto-remove-logs arg=[0:1] (default: 1) For berkeley-db only. Auto remove logs if enabled. **Note: lmdb and berkeley-db have changes to the tables and are not compatible with official git head version. At the moment, you need a full resync to use this optimized version. [PERFORMANCE COMPARISON] **Some figures are approximations only. Using a baseline machine of an i7-2600K+SSD+(with full pow computation): 1. The optimized lmdb/blockhain core can process blocks up to 585K for ~1.25 hours + download time, so it usually takes 2.5 hours to sync the full chain. 2. The current head with memory can process blocks up to 585K for ~4.2 hours + download time, so it usually takes 5.5 hours to sync the full chain. 3. The current head with lmdb can process blocks up to 585K for ~32 hours + download time and usually takes 36 hours to sync the full chain. Averate procesing times (with full pow computation): lmdb-optimized: 1. tx_ave = 2.5 ms / tx 2. block_ave = 5.87 ms / block memory-official-repo: 1. tx_ave = 8.85 ms / tx 2. block_ave = 19.68 ms / block lmdb-official-repo (0f4a036) 1. tx_ave = 47.8 ms / tx 2. block_ave = 64.2 ms / block **Note: The following data denotes processing times only (does not include p2p download time) lmdb-optimized processing times (with full pow computation): 1. Desktop, Quad-core / 8-threads 2600k (8Mb) - 1.25 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). 2. Laptop, Dual-core / 4-threads U4200 (3Mb) - 4.90 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). 3. Embedded, Quad-core / 4-threads Z3735F (2x1Mb) - 12.0 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). lmdb-optimized processing times (with per-block-checkpoint) 1. Desktop, Quad-core / 8-threads 2600k (8Mb) - 10 minutes processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). berkeley-db optimized processing times (with full pow computation) 1. Desktop, Quad-core / 8-threads 2600k (8Mb) - 1.8 hours processing time (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). 2. RPI2. Improved from estimated 3 months(Huh) into 2.5 days (*Need 2AMP supply + Clock:1Ghz + [usb+ssd] to achieve this speed) (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). berkeley-db optimized processing times (with per-block-checkpoint) 1. RPI2. 12-15 hours (*Need 2AMP supply + Clock:1Ghz + [usb+ssd] to achieve this speed) (--db-sync-mode=fastest:async:1000). ...and smooth's brief summary of XMR advancements over BCN: Monero: 1034 commits (not including work on developer forks that isn't merged yet). Monero core and community innovations over the past year: 1. Electrum seed wallets 2. Optimized (and documented) proof-of-work algorithm 3. Database implementation with negligible memory requirements 4. 32-bit support and fixes, including embedded platforms like RPi2 5. 5+ third party GUI wallets 6. Merchant framework 7. MyMonero web wallet with client-side javascript cryptography and private keys never sent to the server 8. GUI skeleton 9. Portable compact blockchain format. 10. Integrated addresses (no more payment IDs for routine transactions!) 11. Several MRL white papers analyzing and improving anonymity. 12. High level Python implementation of crypto for research 13. Watch only (view key) wallets. In progress: 1. Smart mining 2. Non-retarded APIs 3. Improved difficulty retargeting 4. Improved privacy of transaction amounts 5. Multisig compatible with ring sigs 6. Rolling hard fork deployment scheme It does appear that some some botnets have mined Monero in the past (just like they have mined BTC and other coins). As block rewards decrease this will be less and less of an issue. Smart mining in particular will be very helpful The amount of work done over the last year has been outstanding. The Development team is aware of Monero strengths and weaknesses. Current limitations are being dealt with one by one and Monero continues to get stronger Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: aleix on July 16, 2015, 09:23:26 PM Some Monero supporters are great at PR and fudding other coins, thats true.
But what markets support are real development, innovation, not spamming bitcointalk with lame threads or fudding campaings to other coins. Thats the reason Monero is (after the non-stop spamming and fudding campaigs) the n8 at coinmarketcap (under doge or bytecoin LOL). (excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language) Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: iCEBREAKER on July 16, 2015, 09:34:02 PM Some Monero supporters are great at PR and fudding other coins, thats true. But what markets support are real development, innovation, not spamming bitcointalk with lame threads or fudding campaings to other coins. XMR's PR efforts haven't really started. We're waiting for the DB and GUI to be done first. How are the advancements listed in smooth's summary and NoodleDoodle's latest commit (both of which are quoted in the post above yours) not real development and innovation? Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: aleix on July 16, 2015, 09:53:12 PM I appreciate your true commitment to your coin and your community, but your non-stop fudding in Dash thread is despicable. You should understand that show some respect (even if you don't like something or you think something is wrong) is a basic issue for a civilizated alt-community to grow. Is ok to disagree, is ok to say it loud, fudding campaigs like yours with Dash community is really bad for all the alt eco-system. Karma is a bitch, remember that. I don't like Monero because Monero lack of tecnical innovations and because people like you and your kind of toxic behavior. You should think about that. (excuse my grammar and vocabulary mistakes, english is my third language) Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: iCEBREAKER on July 16, 2015, 10:14:04 PM I appreciate your true commitment to your coin and your community, but your non-stop fudding in Dash thread is despicable. You should understand that show some respect (even if you don't like something or you think something is wrong) is a basic issue for a civilizated alt-community to grow. Is ok to disagree, is ok to say it loud, fudding campaigs like yours with Dash community is really bad for all the alt eco-system. Karma is a bitch, remember that. I don't like Monero because Monero lack of tecnical innovations and because people like you and your kind of toxic behavior. You should think about that. I appreciate your commitment to white knighting for Dash, regardless of my feelings about that coin. I'd also appreciate it if you would answer (or at least not completely ignore) my question: Quote How are the advancements listed in smooth's summary and NoodleDoodle's latest commit (both of which are quoted in the post above yours) not real development and innovation? We're not going to stop telling the truth about Dash's instamine (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1117740.msg11847985#msg11847985), shoddy technology, and scammy HYIP-like aspects. You are correct about karma; that's why we Monero Mustangs always say "If you see fraud and don't shout fraud, you are a fraud. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999084.0)" Sorry, but XMR and Dash are never going to make nice and be friends. Because Dash is Digital Trash, and its community is a cargo cult (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ddkhy/bitcoindev_significant_losses_by_doublespending/ct4dmqm). Quote "DARKCOIN (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0)": { HYIP (http://darkcoin.guide/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/masternode_payment_plan.png) - scam (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995710.0) - InstaMined (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0): [500k/1st hr, 2MM/1st day] (https://i.imgur.com/dSe9cRz.jpg) - Broken Privacy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978447.0) - Broken Security (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy) - Broken Masternodes (https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/2014-11-27/?msg=26349785&page=4) - Trusted 3rd Paries (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=954451.msg10845049#msg10845049) - Stolen Name (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=678232.msg10758003;topicseen#msg10758003) - No Fundamentals (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10846424#msg10846424) - BusFactor=1 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10825066#msg10825066) } // Duffield, Moncada, & Co (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg8585965#msg8585965) should GO TO JAIL (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999084.msg10858478#msg10858478) for fraud (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999084.0). Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: Johnny Mnemonic on July 16, 2015, 10:30:34 PM Thanks for starting another Monero thread! We don't need to market the coin when the haters do it for us :P
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: hodlmybtc on July 16, 2015, 10:40:32 PM A couple days ago I wondered where all the trolls went, maybe because XMR bottomed out?
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: solid12345 on July 16, 2015, 11:12:22 PM looks like Fluffy and Smooth didn't know what to do after copy pasting Byte lol because they still don't know how to create a GUI wallet The Official GUI wallet exists in skeleton form (http://imgur.com/a/ERheR). Progress will increase after DB is done. Sorry but to me it is absolutely embarrassing that Monero devs can't roll out a GUI wallet. It's bad enough most crypto wallets look like a visual basic app from the Windows 95 days, but one of the "leading" coins can't even roll that out in over a years time? I would think it would be a 2-day job at most based on what many other shitcoin developers manage to churn out every week. If they think it is some kind of "statement" to be concentrating on the backend first it's a really lame one. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: iCEBREAKER on July 16, 2015, 11:48:25 PM looks like Fluffy and Smooth didn't know what to do after copy pasting Byte lol because they still don't know how to create a GUI wallet The Official GUI wallet exists in skeleton form (http://imgur.com/a/ERheR). Progress will increase after DB is done. Sorry but to me it is absolutely embarrassing that Monero devs can't roll out a GUI wallet. It's bad enough most crypto wallets look like a visual basic app from the Windows 95 days, but one of the "leading" coins can't even roll that out in over a years time? I would think it would be a 2-day job at most based on what many other shitcoin developers manage to churn out every week. If they think it is some kind of "statement" to be concentrating on the backend first it's a really lame one. Monero devs can and are rolling out a GUI wallet. But the refactoring and DB needed to be done first. Do you understand what the phrase "software dependencies" means? https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/en/why-monero-not-user-friendly-most-other-cryptocurrencies-why-there-no-official-gui-wallet Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: Johnny Mnemonic on July 17, 2015, 01:00:25 AM looks like Fluffy and Smooth didn't know what to do after copy pasting Byte lol because they still don't know how to create a GUI wallet The Official GUI wallet exists in skeleton form (http://imgur.com/a/ERheR). Progress will increase after DB is done. Sorry but to me it is absolutely embarrassing that Monero devs can't roll out a GUI wallet. It's bad enough most crypto wallets look like a visual basic app from the Windows 95 days, but one of the "leading" coins can't even roll that out in over a years time? I would think it would be a 2-day job at most based on what many other shitcoin developers manage to churn out every week. If they think it is some kind of "statement" to be concentrating on the backend first it's a really lame one. I agree that a simple GUI should be in place, but it's more for all-in-one accessibility than anything else. We know perfectly well more users will go to third party SPV/web wallets that suit their specific needs than will depend on the core GUI. What percentage of Bitcoin users do you think still use the QT GUI? Nevertheless, a core GUI should be there, but it's hardly "embarrassing" that one isn't. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: generalizethis on July 17, 2015, 04:13:34 AM looks like Fluffy and Smooth didn't know what to do after copy pasting Byte lol because they still don't know how to create a GUI wallet The Official GUI wallet exists in skeleton form (http://imgur.com/a/ERheR). Progress will increase after DB is done. Sorry but to me it is absolutely embarrassing that Monero devs can't roll out a GUI wallet. It's bad enough most crypto wallets look like a visual basic app from the Windows 95 days, but one of the "leading" coins can't even roll that out in over a years time? I would think it would be a 2-day job at most based on what many other shitcoin developers manage to churn out every week. If they think it is some kind of "statement" to be concentrating on the backend first it's a really lame one. Well at least you know if it were a scam, the Devs would have rolled out some simple GUI to gather the most sheep in the shortest amount of time. Instead they are creating an enterprise level (scalable) GUI, so sorry if it takes more time to create than a Fast and Furious sequel. Of course all this already known to anyone willing to do their homework: https://forum.getmonero.org/1/news-announcements-and-editorials/190/editorial-why-is-the-official-gui-wallet-not-released-yet Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: HCLivess on July 17, 2015, 10:02:19 AM I am getting an increasing feeling that there is only one person with tor involved in XMR, which would make it the biggest scam in the history of mankind
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: J1mb0 on July 17, 2015, 10:16:38 AM A couple days ago I wondered where all the trolls went, maybe because XMR bottomed out? This is the typical Monero scammy tactic. When other cryptos are doing better things, spam the forum with inane Monero topics and spam other coin threads with trolling and FUD. Then when reasonable and respectful forum members complain, call them trolls. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: TrueCryptonaire on July 17, 2015, 12:07:59 PM I am getting an increasing feeling that there is only one person with tor involved in XMR, which would make it the biggest scam in the history of mankind I am getting an increasing feeling that there is only one troll bashing Monero with many alter egos, which would make the Monero trolling the biggest scam in the history of mankind. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: sofu on August 03, 2015, 08:40:58 PM While bagholders are shilling Monero the smart people are buying Vanilla ;D Hey bagholders Its not to late to FOMO VNL Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: benthach on August 03, 2015, 08:42:02 PM very sad indeed
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: J1mb0 on August 03, 2015, 10:44:17 PM What is Monero a clone of? Bytecoin Although they will tell you it is a fork with thousands of commits and enhancements and a 'thriving' development community. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: iCEBREAKER on August 03, 2015, 11:29:19 PM What is Monero a clone of? Bytecoin Although they will tell you it is a fork with thousands of commits and enhancements and a 'thriving' development community. Monero is a clone of Bytecoin, except for the completely different emission schedule, the completely different block time, 1000s of lines of commits, integrated LMDB, etc. Oh wait, Bytecoin has an Official GUI but Monero does not. If Monero was a Bytecoin clone, it would also have Bytecoin's Official GUI. Therefore, Monero is not a clone of Bytecoin. Whew, that sure was hard to understand! Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: J1mb0 on August 04, 2015, 11:03:26 PM What is Monero a clone of? Bytecoin Although they will tell you it is a fork with thousands of commits and enhancements and a 'thriving' development community. Monero is a clone of Bytecoin, except for the completely different emission schedule, the completely different block time, 1000s of lines of commits, integrated LMDB, etc. There you go! ;D Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: ElitistCA on August 05, 2015, 01:48:39 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption.
Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: XMRpromotions on August 05, 2015, 03:04:58 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. Monero can offer complete transparency with the view key: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/628632960565166080 I also think you may want to take some time to understand why privacy should matter to us all: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/626407810998218752 Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: g3rszpi on August 05, 2015, 03:26:40 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. Monero can offer complete transparency with the view key: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/628632960565166080 I also think you may want to take some time to understand why privacy should matter to us all: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/626407810998218752 Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: generalizethis on August 05, 2015, 03:37:25 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. Monero can offer complete transparency with the view key: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/628632960565166080 I also think you may want to take some time to understand why privacy should matter to us all: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/626407810998218752 Because you don't want bad guys (mobsters, hackers, thiefs, business competitors, spying agencies, my wife, ect) to steal or extort money or information from you. Even if you are following the law, you still don't want your income public record--so uber drivers using bitcoin QR codes for tips is probably a bad idea, and the more money involved, the worse of an idea it becomes. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: rustynailer on August 05, 2015, 03:44:24 PM Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: kekek on August 05, 2015, 04:50:49 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. Monero can offer complete transparency with the view key: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/628632960565166080 I also think you may want to take some time to understand why privacy should matter to us all: https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/626407810998218752 It's not really anymore important than it was 10-20 years ago. Having some privacy is a good thing, but the majority of the so called bad guys have little to no effect on the average person. Not to mention that any amount privacy needed by the average person is already available in much larger and more stable markets. Also, a bit of an off topic point, but you're just getting ripped off if you tip an uber driver in ANY currency. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: Nxtblg on August 06, 2015, 12:19:59 AM Because you don't want bad guys (mobsters, hackers, thiefs, business competitors, spying agencies, my wife, ect) to steal or extort money or information from you. Even if you are following the law, you still don't want your income public record--so uber drivers using bitcoin QR codes for tips is probably a bad idea, and the more money involved, the worse of an idea it becomes. Now that you mention it...if the Monero devs ever put together a lite and/or Web wallet that works seamlessly on a smart phone, it would make a durn good tip app. Imagine "zapping" a waitress with a Monero tip... Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: Zer0Sum on August 06, 2015, 01:13:23 AM What is Monero a clone of? Bytecoin Although they will tell you it is a fork with thousands of commits and enhancements and a 'thriving' development community. Monero is a clone of Bytecoin, except for the completely different emission schedule, the completely different block time, 1000s of lines of commits, integrated LMDB, etc. Oh wait, Bytecoin has an Official GUI but Monero does not. If Monero was a Bytecoin clone, it would also have Bytecoin's Official GUI. Therefore, Monero is not a clone of Bytecoin. Whew, that sure was hard to understand! The reason Monero is such a clusterfuck... Is because they started with the ByteCoin code which Peter Todd described as "atrocious". Major design decisions must be made at the START of a complex project... One is usually better off (a) coding from scratch than (b) cleaning up a nightmarish codebase. Monero chose (b) and will be paying the price basically forever... And, conversely, I doubt BCN will ever be reliable enough to be a major currency (I ran it recently on various PCs). ByteCoin is basically a Pump... no one uses it.... and there is no volume relative to it's cap. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: americanpegasus on August 06, 2015, 04:24:21 AM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: kekek on August 06, 2015, 04:34:58 AM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin" Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: americanpegasus on August 06, 2015, 07:05:22 AM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin" Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. You must explained why Monero is so great. We finally have the freedom of money again. This is true freedom. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: generalizethis on August 06, 2015, 07:30:57 AM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin" Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. Again, look up and read what I wrote about bad guys. You do not want your cryptocurrency balance public anymore than you want your bank account balance public. Just because we've gotten used to the idea that money is public, doesn't mean that anyone should be comfortable with it being public. Here's a quick mental experiment: You have the option of using one of two banks for your business. The first does not disclose any of your account information without your express permission, and the second posts your account holdings and transactions online irregardless if you are buying groceries or paying for treatment of testicular cancer. Which bank are you going to use? Information is power and I'm not handing mine over without so much as a conversation. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: SockPuppetAccount on August 06, 2015, 11:29:12 AM Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. This level of anonymity is not relevant to the average person. If we further expand the free speech comparison, free speech is not relevant to the average person either. Even if society all of a sudden stopped valuing the concept of free speech, there are few who would espouse views so universally abhorred by society that it would be deemed reasonable to have them silenced. NAMBLA comes to mind as an organization that sickens most people. Free speech protects their right to exist but the value of free speech is so high that we accept it. You gotta take the good with the bad. It's the same with money. Most people don't have a reason to care that their finances can me monitored so easily by the government. If our money and financial transactions could be made completely anonymous and hidden, it is going to make life a lot easier for those who profit off of child pornography. That fact doesn't discount the value of financial anonymity to a truly free society. You gotta take the good with the bad. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: kekek on August 06, 2015, 05:05:57 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin" Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. Again, look up and read what I wrote about bad guys. You do not want your cryptocurrency balance public anymore than you want your bank account balance public. Just because we've gotten used to the idea that money is public, doesn't mean that anyone should be comfortable with it being public. Here's a quick mental experiment: You have the option of using one of two banks for your business. The first does not disclose any of your account information without your express permission, and the second posts your account holdings and transactions online irregardless if you are buying groceries or paying for treatment of testicular cancer. Which bank are you going to use? Information is power and I'm not handing mine over without so much as a conversation. Look at what I said about the so-called bad guys. They are not relevant to the average person, meaning XMR or any other of the coins like Monero aren't relevant to average person You're point about balances being public isn't true at all. Some people believe that one of the big advantages of Crypto is being able to see transactions and balances with the blockchain. The situation you described is a choice between two rather impractical banks, and doesn't seek out the third option of finding a bank that offers the best from both worlds. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: TrueCryptonaire on August 06, 2015, 05:13:23 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin" Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. Again, look up and read what I wrote about bad guys. You do not want your cryptocurrency balance public anymore than you want your bank account balance public. Just because we've gotten used to the idea that money is public, doesn't mean that anyone should be comfortable with it being public. Here's a quick mental experiment: You have the option of using one of two banks for your business. The first does not disclose any of your account information without your express permission, and the second posts your account holdings and transactions online irregardless if you are buying groceries or paying for treatment of testicular cancer. Which bank are you going to use? Information is power and I'm not handing mine over without so much as a conversation. Look at what I said about the so-called bad guys. They are not relevant to the average person, meaning XMR or any other of the coins like Monero aren't relevant to average person You're point about balances being public isn't true at all. Some people believe that one of the big advantages of Crypto is being able to see transactions and balances with the blockchain. The situation you described is a choice between two rather impractical banks, and doesn't seek out the third option of finding a bank that offers the best from both worlds. Have you made a research what is relevant for an average guy or on what bases your claim privacy is irrelevant for an average guy? You see, Monero is like digital cash. You cannot track the transaction or at least it is hard to do if you do not voluntarily want to show your transactions. If you are broke, then perhaps privacy doesn't matter so much but immediately you have some funds you have an incentive not to reveal it to anyone. You see, showing your wealth just attracts thieves and parasites. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: kekek on August 06, 2015, 05:15:17 PM Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. This level of anonymity is not relevant to the average person. If we further expand the free speech comparison, free speech is not relevant to the average person either. Even if society all of a sudden stopped valuing the concept of free speech, there are few who would espouse views so universally abhorred by society that it would be deemed reasonable to have them silenced. NAMBLA comes to mind as an organization that sickens most people. Free speech protects their right to exist but the value of free speech is so high that we accept it. You gotta take the good with the bad. It's the same with money. Most people don't have a reason to care that their finances can me monitored so easily by the government. If our money and financial transactions could be made completely anonymous and hidden, it is going to make life a lot easier for those who profit off of child pornography. That fact doesn't discount the value of financial anonymity to a truly free society. You gotta take the good with the bad. Except that the free speech comparison isn't relevant to XMR at all. The whole privacy and free speech argument being used is irrelevant. Hell when Snowden said that he was looking at the big picture, not the VERY very small piece that XMR focuses on. We've known for years that the banking system has been heavily monitored and in some cases that's a good thing. You gotta take the good with the bad. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: kekek on August 06, 2015, 05:34:33 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin" Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. Again, look up and read what I wrote about bad guys. You do not want your cryptocurrency balance public anymore than you want your bank account balance public. Just because we've gotten used to the idea that money is public, doesn't mean that anyone should be comfortable with it being public. Here's a quick mental experiment: You have the option of using one of two banks for your business. The first does not disclose any of your account information without your express permission, and the second posts your account holdings and transactions online irregardless if you are buying groceries or paying for treatment of testicular cancer. Which bank are you going to use? Information is power and I'm not handing mine over without so much as a conversation. Look at what I said about the so-called bad guys. They are not relevant to the average person, meaning XMR or any other of the coins like Monero aren't relevant to average person You're point about balances being public isn't true at all. Some people believe that one of the big advantages of Crypto is being able to see transactions and balances with the blockchain. The situation you described is a choice between two rather impractical banks, and doesn't seek out the third option of finding a bank that offers the best from both worlds. Have you made a research what is relevant for an average guy or on what bases your claim privacy is irrelevant for an average guy? You see, Monero is like digital cash. You cannot track the transaction or at least it is hard to do if you do not voluntarily want to show your transactions. If you are broke, then perhaps privacy doesn't matter so much but immediately you have some funds you have an incentive not to reveal it to anyone. You see, showing your wealth just attracts thieves and parasites. 1. I know how Monero works, you don't need to explain it. 2. Whether someone is broke or not has nothing to do with this, just seems like a sad attempt at ad hominem. 3. I've gone over this, many people will tell you that the ability to view transactions and balances in the blockchain is a value to crypto 4. You're generalizing privacy. Yes privacy as a whole is important to the average person, but this isn't privacy as a whole. It's a very specific and small part of the privacy that people like Snowden talked about. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: DaveyJones on August 06, 2015, 05:44:55 PM I dont see any value in Monero... Im not pedo, I dont wanna do all my money managing in secrecy like Im doing something wrong, that can only bring more problems/police into my life. I hope that crypto will be able to become legal, and will help with transparency and lesser the corruption. "I don't see the value of free speech, I have no intention of hosting a KKK rally. I'm fine with not being able to speak freely about what I think; it will only bring more problems into my life ." That's how fucking stupid you sound. I like how you guys just keep going back to "free speech is exactly the same as muh anonymous coin" Explain how this level of anonymity is relevant to the average person? And do keep in mind that for a long time now money has been monitored in nearly every transaction. Again, look up and read what I wrote about bad guys. You do not want your cryptocurrency balance public anymore than you want your bank account balance public. Just because we've gotten used to the idea that money is public, doesn't mean that anyone should be comfortable with it being public. Here's a quick mental experiment: You have the option of using one of two banks for your business. The first does not disclose any of your account information without your express permission, and the second posts your account holdings and transactions online irregardless if you are buying groceries or paying for treatment of testicular cancer. Which bank are you going to use? Information is power and I'm not handing mine over without so much as a conversation. Look at what I said about the so-called bad guys. They are not relevant to the average person, meaning XMR or any other of the coins like Monero aren't relevant to average person You're point about balances being public isn't true at all. Some people believe that one of the big advantages of Crypto is being able to see transactions and balances with the blockchain. The situation you described is a choice between two rather impractical banks, and doesn't seek out the third option of finding a bank that offers the best from both worlds. Have you made a research what is relevant for an average guy or on what bases your claim privacy is irrelevant for an average guy? You see, Monero is like digital cash. You cannot track the transaction or at least it is hard to do if you do not voluntarily want to show your transactions. If you are broke, then perhaps privacy doesn't matter so much but immediately you have some funds you have an incentive not to reveal it to anyone. You see, showing your wealth just attracts thieves and parasites. 1. I know how Monero works, you don't need to explain it. 2. Whether someone is broke or not has nothing to do with this, just seems like a sad attempt at ad hominem. 3. I've gone over this, many people will tell you that the ability to view transactions and balances in the blockchain is a value to crypto 4. You're generalizing privacy. Yes privacy as a whole is important to the average person, but this isn't privacy as a whole. It's a very specific and small part of the privacy that people like Snowden talked about. 3. And many say it is not a value but a threat. What is most important to the most people is the blockchain and how the transactions are secured by it, not the balances nor transactions. Your point is minor/major for some so not a valid argument. Title: Re: Monero is irrelevant but the shills and despeate are still here Post by: SockPuppetAccount on August 06, 2015, 06:27:32 PM Except that the free speech comparison isn't relevant to XMR at all. The whole privacy and free speech argument being used is irrelevant. Hell when Snowden said that he was looking at the big picture, not the VERY very small piece that XMR focuses on. We've known for years that the banking system has been heavily monitored and in some cases that's a good thing. You gotta take the good with the bad. Just for the record, I hold no XMR and really have no strong feelings about the coin either way, but we are talking about the right to financial privacy which some people believe is a good thing for reasons that are analogous to why free speech in a good thing. So it is a relevant discussion when it comes to XMR, and I don't even understand what you are trying to say when you say Snowden was looking at the "big picture". The scope and scale is irrelevant if we are considering whether a certain freedom is good or bad simply on principal. Any time you give people more freedom, there are going to be people who abuse that freedom for nefarious purposes. The positive value that a society gains by being able to freely speak and exchange ideas with others so clearly outweighs any negatives, that freedom of speech is held sacred by most modern societies, America especially so. Of course we know that the banking system is heavily monitored, which is why people who believe in the freedom to have financial anonymity are developing anonymous solutions like XMR. If you don't believe the freedom to financial anonymity is a good thing, then you should also be advocating for the removal of cash from society so that all financial transactions can be on record. If you think that is a dumb idea, then you are saying it is acceptable to sometimes have transactions on record and sometimes not. If there is nothing wrong with financial anonymity for local, in person transactions, why should it be any different online? Especially when you consider that we are living in a highly connected world where an increasing amount of our lives and relationships, both personal and professional, exist solely online. If you believe that the concept of cash in it of itself is a good thing, then why isn't digital cash good? It remains to be seen if things such as XMR will do more good than harm. The value of such freedom is not as plainly obvious nor as widely accepted as freedom of speech. I find the technology and the questions raised by it interesting and I will always prefer to err on the side of giving too much freedom vs too little freedom, so my opinion is that I support these advancements until I have a good reason not to. Even if I were to never exercise the freedom to have financial anonymity, the idea of a world where that freedom isn't an option and all my financial transactions are forced to be on record and kept in a database somewhere does not sit well with me. |
