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Title: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: cafucafucafu on August 01, 2015, 02:45:38 PM According to Adam Turner:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fe92x/im_ashley_barr_aka_adam_turner_the_first_mtgox/ https://i.imgur.com/UTRQq7C.png?1 https://i.imgur.com/oPmTdRQ.png?1 Does this mean we will not see future bubbles? Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Netnox on August 01, 2015, 03:28:20 PM Nope, sorry it's over.
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: cafucafucafu on August 01, 2015, 03:33:41 PM I don't understand why he would use an account to buy at a surplus rate and not use other accounts to sell at those rates. I.e. why not buy and sell from himself? That way he would not need to include fiat in the equation at all. Buying from his customers would mean having to produce fiat.
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: seedtrue on August 01, 2015, 04:12:53 PM I don't understand why he would use an account to buy at a surplus rate and not use other accounts to sell at those rates. I.e. why not buy and sell from himself? That way he would not need to include fiat in the equation at all. Buying from his customers would mean having to produce fiat. Well the fiat did not really exist. It was just numbers on users browsers. Once people started trying to actually withdraw these numbers is when the bank withdrawal issues and account freezes started happening. A lot of people could not withdraw for at least months before the final collapse, and were given various excuses throughout. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Mr Crabs on August 01, 2015, 04:29:32 PM It's entirely possible the bubbles were manipulated sadly. Maybe that's a good thing though. Bitcoin needs time to grown and not just shoot up and down on a whim.
I don't understand why he would use an account to buy at a surplus rate and not use other accounts to sell at those rates. I.e. why not buy and sell from himself? That way he would not need to include fiat in the equation at all. Buying from his customers would mean having to produce fiat. Well he needed the fiat coming in and it didn't matter about money going out because he blocked the withdrawls so no money went out eventually and that's how people lost pout because there was no real money or coins. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: cafucafucafu on August 01, 2015, 04:41:00 PM It's entirely possible the bubbles were manipulated sadly. Maybe that's a good thing though. Bitcoin needs time to grown and not just shoot up and down on a whim. I don't understand why he would use an account to buy at a surplus rate and not use other accounts to sell at those rates. I.e. why not buy and sell from himself? That way he would not need to include fiat in the equation at all. Buying from his customers would mean having to produce fiat. Well he needed the fiat coming in and it didn't matter about money going out because he blocked the withdrawls so no money went out eventually and that's how people lost pout because there was no real money or coins. Why even go down that route? No fiat would come in by him buying bitcoins from exchange users. He was only putting himself in debt. It makes no sense. Unless he was trying to accumulate BTC? It was easier for him to inflate the price by buying and selling to himself (using fake accounts) and then to sell the BTC at those inflated prices. I think you are right we wont see another massive bubble. Just a slow grind. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: BillyBobZorton on August 01, 2015, 05:00:40 PM It's entirely possible the bubbles were manipulated sadly. Maybe that's a good thing though. Bitcoin needs time to grown and not just shoot up and down on a whim. I don't understand why he would use an account to buy at a surplus rate and not use other accounts to sell at those rates. I.e. why not buy and sell from himself? That way he would not need to include fiat in the equation at all. Buying from his customers would mean having to produce fiat. Well he needed the fiat coming in and it didn't matter about money going out because he blocked the withdrawls so no money went out eventually and that's how people lost pout because there was no real money or coins. Why even go down that route? No fiat would come in by him buying bitcoins from exchange users. He was only putting himself in debt. It makes no sense. Unless he was trying to accumulate BTC? It was easier for him to inflate the price by buying and selling to himself (using fake accounts) and then to sell the BTC at those inflated prices. I think you are right we wont see another massive bubble. Just a slow grind. Wasn't the Mt Gox history thanks to that bot called "Willy"? apparently it managed to pump the price, which coupled with actual real bullish pressure made Bitcoin go higher than gold. Bitcoin is still a really new technology and we cannot properly value it so im sure we'll see even more massive bubbles. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Hazir on August 01, 2015, 05:14:50 PM Well, bubbles are most of the time effect of manipulation of whales, effect of the bots doing their transactions in the shadows.
Now we know that that huge spike price of 2013 was caused partially by Mtgox bot called 'Willy'. So it is safe to say that other bubbles and spikes can be 'fake' too. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Possum577 on August 01, 2015, 05:48:40 PM According to Adam Turner: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fe92x/im_ashley_barr_aka_adam_turner_the_first_mtgox/ Does this mean we will not see future bubbles? This is interesting, thanks for sharing. If it happened once it can definitely happen again, so to answer your question "does this mean we will not see future bubbles?" The answer is "No", future bubbles are inevitable...either due to real run-ups or manufactured run-ups (like Adam suggests here). The bubble isn't something that's bitcoin specific, it can happen any where supply and demand (or perceived supply and demand) exist. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Scamalert on August 01, 2015, 05:54:21 PM The big rally in November 2013 was caused by trade roberts running at Mt.Gox.
This has been proven and documented, people have analyzed that rally closely, it was made my executing fake orders, pretty easy if you control the main exhange. That is eventually what lead to mt.gox dead. If you ask me, pretty good mt.gox died, we have pretty much stabalized the price by now. Bitcoins should be worth about 250 BTC if you take out mt.gox of the equations. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: ashour on August 01, 2015, 06:54:58 PM Bitcoin companies would actually benefit from another bubble, so yet it is possible that another bubble will occur , maybe not this year but later. Too many investors and companies have invested into Bitcoin and they will of course try to make the bitcoin price rise for their own benefit.
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Amph on August 01, 2015, 07:01:36 PM if for bubble you see furious pump, i'm fine with the possibility of not seeing once in the future, they are not healty at all for bitcoin value, they cause huge spike and suddenly, crash, the same as when you eat tons of sugar and your level of glucose , rise too much and quickly
if we can keep the steady growth that we are facing now, you will not be seen any major crash in the future Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Mickeyb on August 01, 2015, 07:07:36 PM I might believe that Mt. Gox did pump up the price of Bitcoin to theatm high in November of 2013. However, this is now behind us and we need to look ak the future. In the future, I see that Bitcoin has a market and a bright future even without another alleged Mt. Gox pump, and that's all that matters to me as an investor and BTC follower.
The rest is history! Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: newIndia on August 01, 2015, 07:19:52 PM Does this mean we will not see future bubbles? No bubble is better than subsequent trouble.Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: ajareselde on August 02, 2015, 07:49:40 AM I believe in the story that Mt.Gox was the main reason of the hype and that insane bubble of 1200+ USD, but it doesn't even matter anymore, because
however it was played out, it pushed bitcoin into the targeted audience, and created a whole range of bitcoin speculators and wannabe millionares, that are as a result of that, fueling the price and awareness to this day. cheers Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: tatu on August 02, 2015, 12:39:19 PM This isn't anything new. There was actually a much detailed analysis done by someone quite some time ago about how the spikes coincided with bot activity on gox.
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: marcus_of_augustus on August 02, 2015, 12:55:28 PM It's entirely possible the bubbles were manipulated sadly. Maybe that's a good thing though. Bitcoin needs time to grown and not just shoot up and down on a whim. I don't understand why he would use an account to buy at a surplus rate and not use other accounts to sell at those rates. I.e. why not buy and sell from himself? That way he would not need to include fiat in the equation at all. Buying from his customers would mean having to produce fiat. Well he needed the fiat coming in and it didn't matter about money going out because he blocked the withdrawls so no money went out eventually and that's how people lost pout because there was no real money or coins. Why even go down that route? No fiat would come in by him buying bitcoins from exchange users. He was only putting himself in debt. It makes no sense. Unless he was trying to accumulate BTC? It was easier for him to inflate the price by buying and selling to himself (using fake accounts) and then to sell the BTC at those inflated prices. I think you are right we wont see another massive bubble. Just a slow grind. If he was only letting fiat come in (stopped fiat withdrawls), and meanwhile sitting on a large stash of BTC, then the way to pay out least total fiat value of redemptions was a higher btc price ... meaning the show could carry on only until the BTC ran out, which would happen much quicker when the BTC price dropped. Sounds like it became just a classic Ponzi scheme by the end, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Then you have to ask yourself if the willy bot was only source for the wave up why did the wave up end before Gox blew up? ... there are other reasons that simplistic explanation doesn't stack up also, like Chinese exchange volumes and price reaction to bitstamp crash on way up etc. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Cryptopher on August 02, 2015, 12:57:56 PM What I'm more interested in is how low the price could realistically go.
I don't mean flash dumps, I mean a sustained globally accepted price. So far in this 'bubble' I can't say that I've seen it sustained under $200 a piece, yet... Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: AGD on August 02, 2015, 03:26:14 PM The bubble was NOT fake, because I made real money with it...
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Bitcoinpro on August 02, 2015, 04:44:12 PM the real crash happened because n economic Superstar called Mwuah
started playing the Mtgox exchange and they decided to pull the plug on me i withdrew to Doge on Crypsty and BigVern started pulling the same BS on my trades so I withdrew my funds Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: cafucafucafu on August 02, 2015, 04:54:37 PM then the way to pay out least total fiat value of redemptions was a higher btc price ... Can you explain this in more detail please? Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Derrike on August 02, 2015, 05:57:07 PM I think answer is yes.
There is much time passed after this incident and we've not seen any good pump in Bitcoin prices, you know like around 500$. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: BillyBobZorton on August 02, 2015, 09:40:34 PM I think answer is yes. This only exists for 6 years, lets look at Apple's all time graph:There is much time passed after this incident and we've not seen any good pump in Bitcoin prices, you know like around 500$. http://www.iphonefaq.org/images/archives/stock-aapl-peak.jpg And the recent years missing there: https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/apple-split-adjusted-closing-price-closing-price_chartbuilder.png?w=640 So as you can see it can take years for pumps, but with BTC it will not because its too disruptive of a technology and the halving will be the next big pump where we'll reach ATH and more. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: marcus_of_augustus on August 02, 2015, 10:44:12 PM Heh ... that graph makes Apple look like a big, fat, ripe bubble getting ready to go POP!
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: gentlemand on August 02, 2015, 10:50:11 PM I think answer is yes. There is much time passed after this incident and we've not seen any good pump in Bitcoin prices, you know like around 500$. It went from 300s/400s to late 600s in mid 2014. That could be thought of as a post bubble hangover still but that was fully minus Gox. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: cafucafucafu on August 02, 2015, 10:51:49 PM I think answer is yes. There is much time passed after this incident and we've not seen any good pump in Bitcoin prices, you know like around 500$. It went from 300s/400s to late 600s in mid 2014. That could be thought of as a post bubble hangover still but that was fully minus Gox. Too small to be a bubble. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: gentlemand on August 02, 2015, 10:53:34 PM Too small to be a bubble. Still a vigourous pump. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Pk880058 on August 03, 2015, 04:20:34 AM Yes you hit the nail hard man.
At least there is someone who understand that Bitcoin is also being pumped and dumped. Those whales........ I hate them. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: talkbitcoin on August 03, 2015, 04:44:56 AM for now i am happy that the bubbles are over and the price is stable for the time being
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Kprawn on August 03, 2015, 07:52:06 AM Bubbles only benefit speculators and day trading. Most of us, and that include the merchants and vendors want a stable and steady growth, and no sudden spikes and drops. ;)
I can still remember the time, when we were in the upward curve of the last bubble.... This forum was vibrant and almost everyone was hyped up, and screaming for the moon. A small percentage of people, saw the big picture and they were in for the long haul... not the quick profits... They were saying.. "Calm down, and warning people about the bubble" The best thing for Bitcoin as a currency, will be for it to be less volatile and a steady continuous growth pattern... upwards to the moon... ;D Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Bitcoinpro on August 03, 2015, 09:45:28 AM so basocally going by the Apple pump n dump run you only get one pump and then institutional investors take hold and your next
pump does actually land on the moon Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: Amph on August 03, 2015, 11:55:13 AM i believe that every bubble that return the the main it's a fake bubble, heavy manipulated to suck noobs and nothing else, a real bubble should not explode at 100%, only a small downside should have happened at worst
but the final price should be much higher from what it has started, so the 1200 was definitely among those fake bubble Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: foodstamps on August 03, 2015, 01:08:27 PM i believe that every bubble that return the the main it's a fake bubble, heavy manipulated to suck noobs and nothing else, a real bubble should not explode at 100%, only a small downside should have happened at worst but the final price should be much higher from what it has started, so the 1200 was definitely among those fake bubble I am not sure I agree with this. The most famous bubble I know of was the tulip bubble from the 17th century. It returned to almost exactly the same price. https://i.imgur.com/nuEW1XT.png Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: WhatTheGox on August 03, 2015, 01:25:10 PM If all the bubbles were "fake" the price would be dead a long time ago. The fact you can pump/manipulate the bitcoin is another part of its value in a sense. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: dreamspark on August 03, 2015, 01:37:43 PM There is no doubt that some of these factors aided the price rise of 2013. I certainly dont think it is the highest we will ever see BTC though. Supply and demand will see to that.
Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: MarketNeutral on August 03, 2015, 02:20:39 PM The bubble was NOT fake, because I made real money with it... My thinking is inclined this way. It was indeed fake for some, but extremely real to us whose profits were real. What a time for bitcoin, some of the most dramatic price and volume movement I've ever seen in any market. Tulip Mania must have felt similar. I suspect the neophyte speculators that got goxxed out of their pipedream fortunes are using The Great Karpeles Bubble of 2013 to justify their losses. They shouldn't feel too bad, however, as it can happen to even the most seasoned traders. And for the record: good riddance, MtGox. You were a blight upon cryptos from day one and only got worse. Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: AGD on August 03, 2015, 02:28:03 PM The bubble was NOT fake, because I made real money with it... My thinking is inclined this way. It was indeed fake for some, but extremely real to us whose profits were real. What a time for bitcoin, some of the most dramatic price and volume movement I've ever seen in any market. Tulip Mania must have felt similar. I suspect the neophyte speculators that got goxxed out of their pipedream fortunes are using The Great Karpeles Bubble of 2013 to justify their losses. They shouldn't feel too bad, however, as it can happen to even the most seasoned traders. And for the record: good riddance, MtGox. You were a blight upon cryptos from day one and only got worse. Yeah, it was also real money, that was lost. Sure, the bubble started artificially, but hey .. doesn't every bubble start with a decent pump anyway? Title: Re: All the bubbles were fake? Post by: pereira4 on August 03, 2015, 04:42:26 PM i believe that every bubble that return the the main it's a fake bubble, heavy manipulated to suck noobs and nothing else, a real bubble should not explode at 100%, only a small downside should have happened at worst but the final price should be much higher from what it has started, so the 1200 was definitely among those fake bubble I think real mad bubbles can happen. When something is very promising and people fail to properly put a price tag on it, the speculation naturally ensues which can and will lead to insane prices without necessary requiring manipulation. |
