Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 01:25:52 PM



Title: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 01:25:52 PM
Luke-Jr keeps changing it to some weird Russian symbol nobody uses on Wikipedia. It probably shows up as the Baht for him or something.

Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: ralree on October 03, 2012, 01:29:00 PM
That's what I prefer.  There's also this one: BTC


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 01:29:43 PM
That's what I prefer.  There's also this one: BTC
That's not standard unicode though. If Luke-Jr is trying to pushing a custom font on top of another symbol, that's just not going to fly on Wikipedia.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: cbeast on October 03, 2012, 01:38:42 PM
I kinda like Ƀ


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Ivica on October 03, 2012, 01:48:46 PM
This doesn't look same to me.
http://www.ratesfx.com/resources/symbols/big-thai-currency-symbol-baht.pngvshttp://hammeroftruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bitcoin-logo.jpg


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 01:53:21 PM
There is no identical unicode symbol. The Thai Baht is the closest however and The Silk Road (the largest Bitcoin marketplace) uses it.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Yankee (BitInstant) on October 03, 2012, 01:54:38 PM
I kinda like Ƀ

Is this part of standard fonts?

If it is, I like it and let use it!


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 02:27:36 PM
when you use the thai baht my wife has to ask what it is...

The US Dollar came out of the same evolution:

"The [$] sign is first attested in British, American, Canadian, Mexican and other Spanish American business correspondence in the 1770s, referring to the Spanish American peso,[1][2] also known as "Spanish dollar" or "piece of eight" in British North America, which provided the model for the currency that the United States later adopted in 1785 and the larger coins of the new Spanish American republics such as the Mexican peso, Peruvian eight-real and Bolivian eight-sol coins.

The best documented explanation reveals that the sign evolved out of the Spanish and Spanish American scribal abbreviation "ps" for pesos. A study of late eighteenth- and early nineteenth-century manuscripts shows that the s gradually came to be written over the p developing a close equivalent to the "$" mark.[3][4][5][6][7]"

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_sign


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: The_Duke on October 03, 2012, 02:27:55 PM
I kinda like Ƀ

Is this part of standard fonts?

If it is, I like it and let use it!

Is that an official TBF statement? ;)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 03, 2012, 03:01:39 PM
Luke-Jr keeps changing it to some weird Russian symbol nobody uses on Wikipedia. It probably shows up as the Baht for him or something.
Um, no, I changed it to the symbol every major Bitcoin website uses - including bitcoin.org, bitcoincharts, and these forums - at least in their favicon: B⃦
This is the standard Unicode symbol used for the B with double vertical strokes.
http://hammeroftruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bitcoin-logo.jpg
The forum has BTC using some CSS (embedded fonts) to workaround the fact that major fonts don't render it as nice, but it is the same symbol.

Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there
You must be confusing Bitcoin with Silk Road.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Deafboy on October 03, 2012, 03:08:56 PM
This is what I see:
http://deafboy.cicolina.org/igelitka/screenshots/btc_symbol.jpg


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: shamoons on October 03, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 03, 2012, 03:53:47 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.
This isn't a vote; B⃦ has been the standard symbol since the beginning, and there is no good reason to change that. This is just Atlas trying to turn Bitcoin into mere "Silk Road currency".


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bitcorn on October 03, 2012, 04:03:27 PM
Not a fan of ฿.

More a fan of Ƀ.

http://www.ecogex.com/bitcoin/


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: SgtSpike on October 03, 2012, 04:08:57 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 03, 2012, 04:15:23 PM
https://i.imgur.com/E9HWU.png

This looks pretty dumb. Is it a Bbox ?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 03, 2012, 04:16:16 PM
Nice to see that now my 2 fav trolls keep each other entertained in a wiki-edit-war.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Fjordbit on October 03, 2012, 04:16:39 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png

A font entry for 0x20E6


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 03, 2012, 04:16:54 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png
A working web browser, perhaps. Or maybe it's a font issue with your system.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 03, 2012, 04:18:58 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png
A working web browser, perhaps.

Explain to me how Chrome 22.0.1229.79 m is not a working browser?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: SgtSpike on October 03, 2012, 04:21:48 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png
A working web browser, perhaps.

Explain to me how Chrome 22.0.1229.79 m is not a working browser?
More to the point, I can see the other symbols here just fine.  If B⃦ is supposed to be the best symbol, and I (and others) cannot see it properly on standard systems, perhaps it would be better to move to a different symbol that IS displayed properly on a standard system.

I am on Firefox BTW.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 03, 2012, 04:23:00 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png
A working web browser, perhaps.

Explain to me how Chrome 22.0.1229.79 m is not a working browser?
Chromium 21.0.1180.89 works fine here.

More to the point, I can see the other symbols here just fine.  If B⃦ is supposed to be the best symbol, and I (and others) cannot see it properly on standard systems, perhaps it would be better to move to a different symbol that IS displayed properly on a standard system.
Images seem to be working fine until mainstream fonts are updated. Thankfully, we also have webfonts now. :)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Stephen Gornick on October 03, 2012, 05:29:35 PM
I kinda like Ƀ

Alt +0243

Ƀ

There hasn't been much disagreement that Ƀ, the "Latin capital letter B with stroke" (Alt+0243) is a pretty decent symbol to use going forward.

http://www.ecogex.com/bitcoin/pack/flag.png

http://www.ecogex.com/bitcoin/pack/pennant.png


 - http://www.ecogex.com/bitcoin/
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_symbol



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Shawshank on October 03, 2012, 05:39:02 PM
Yes, I believe there is something wrong in the configuration of the UTF-8 encoding/charset in the users' browser. HowardStrong's proposal looks fine on both my Internet Explorer and Chrome. Luke-Jr's proposal looks OK in my Internet Explorer, but doesn't look right in Chrome.

Luke-Jr, if you go to Tools/Encoding in your Chrome browser while in Wikipedia, you should have the UTF-8 option checked. Is that so?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 03, 2012, 06:01:51 PM
Luke-Jr, if you go to Tools/Encoding in your Chrome browser while in Wikipedia, you should have the UTF-8 option checked. Is that so?
I'm not the one having problems...


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: xblitz on October 03, 2012, 07:18:25 PM
I'm not the one having problems...

is that a general statement?  ;D


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 03, 2012, 07:45:26 PM
Yes, I believe there is something wrong in the configuration of the UTF-8 encoding/charset in the users' browser. HowardStrong's proposal looks fine on both my Internet Explorer and Chrome. Luke-Jr's proposal looks OK in my Internet Explorer, but doesn't look right in Chrome.

Luke-Jr, if you go to Tools/Encoding in your Chrome browser while in Wikipedia, you should have the UTF-8 option checked. Is that so?

Just to be sure, I've gone through ALL character encodings in Chrome. Lukes character is displayed in none.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 07:50:25 PM
Luke-Jr, if you go to Tools/Encoding in your Chrome browser while in Wikipedia, you should have the UTF-8 option checked. Is that so?
I'm not the one having problems...

This guy is a nut. Plain and simple. Awhile back he added a Tonal number section to the Bitcoin article.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: nimda on October 03, 2012, 07:52:06 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png
A working web browser, perhaps. Or maybe it's a font issue with your system.
Not everyone enjoys Windows loading several gigabytes of fonts on startup. I am running the latest Chrome on a minimal WinXP Pro, and these are boxes for me:
Ƀ
Ƀ

The Thai Baht works for me. So does the custom font BTC, but that's a silly thing for a standard, unless I'm the only one who uses IRC, Wikipedia, plaintext email...


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 03, 2012, 08:17:49 PM
This guy is a nut. Plain and simple.
Coming from someone promoting Bitcoin as a tool for illegal activities (and thus harming Bitcoin), I guess I should take this as a compliment...


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: SgtSpike on October 03, 2012, 08:24:09 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 08:25:22 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Many currencies used already existing symbols. We don't need anybody's permission to adopt the Thai Baht.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: SgtSpike on October 03, 2012, 08:27:49 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Many currencies used already existing symbols. We don't need anybody's permission to adopt the Thai Baht.
Except that it'll be confusing for anyone trying to use Bitcoin in Thailand, and/or with Thai people.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 08:29:52 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Many currencies used already existing symbols. We don't need anybody's permission to adopt the Thai Baht.
Except that it'll be confusing for anyone trying to use Bitcoin in Thailand, and/or with Thai people.
The exchange rats are vastly different. Additionally, the US Dollar stole the $ sign from other countries. It's just how it works. Things will sort out.

The Silk Road and other major retailers are using this sign. It can't be escaped.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 03, 2012, 08:32:59 PM
Luke-Jr, if you go to Tools/Encoding in your Chrome browser while in Wikipedia, you should have the UTF-8 option checked. Is that so?
I'm not the one having problems...

This guy is a nut. Plain and simple. Awhile back he added a Tonal number section to the Bitcoin article.

Oh, I wondered where I knew the name from.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: SgtSpike on October 03, 2012, 08:36:21 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Many currencies used already existing symbols. We don't need anybody's permission to adopt the Thai Baht.
Except that it'll be confusing for anyone trying to use Bitcoin in Thailand, and/or with Thai people.
The exchange rats are vastly different. Additionally, the US Dollar stole the $ sign from other countries. It's just how it works. Things will sort out.

The Silk Road and other major retailers are using this sign. It can't be escaped.
Those exchange rats are very different indeed.  For one thing, Japanese rats vs Thai rats.  Although I suppose exchange rats generally exist for each currency worldwide.

Regardless, you may be right.  I don't think there's much hope in attempting to standardize a particular symbol - the market will use what it will, and even though it might not be the best option, it will eventually become the standard.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 03, 2012, 08:44:01 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Everyone is already using B⃦ via images :)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 08:44:52 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Everyone is already using B⃦ via images :)
Maybe to you and your browser configuration but nobody else sees it.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: nimda on October 03, 2012, 09:00:42 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Everyone is already using B⃦ via images :)
Oh, B-box. Charming.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 03, 2012, 09:07:57 PM
Honestly, everyone should just continue using BTC until a Bitcoin symbol is standardized and viewable on 95% of computers without modifying the default fonts or encodings.
Everyone is already using B⃦ via images :)
Oh, B-box. Charming.

Cute, isn't it? I'm gonna go ahead and name this character "Jalapeno"


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 03, 2012, 09:30:37 PM
Luke is still pushing his own idea of a symbol on wikipedia. It's getting silly.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: theymos on October 03, 2012, 10:12:28 PM
There hasn't been much disagreement that Ƀ, the "Latin capital letter B with stroke" (Alt+0243) is a pretty decent symbol to use going forward.

I don't like it. It's too plain.

My browser displays Luke's symbol alright, and it looks better than ฿ or Ƀ, but I just tried to paste it into the posting text box and it wasn't handled very well.

Why not just use "BTC" in text and BTC in images? A symbol in text isn't really required.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 03, 2012, 10:26:31 PM
Why not just use "BTC" in text and BTC in images? A symbol in text isn't really required.

It's not the first time we are discussing this and although "no authority in bitcoin" Atlas vs. "we always used ❏" Luke might most likely not be resolved ever, I'd love to see some definite preference of the bitcointalk.org users so at least we can silence this repetitive discussion here.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: SgtSpike on October 03, 2012, 11:22:54 PM
There hasn't been much disagreement that Ƀ, the "Latin capital letter B with stroke" (Alt+0243) is a pretty decent symbol to use going forward.

I don't like it. It's too plain.

My browser displays Luke's symbol alright, and it looks better than ฿ or Ƀ, but I just tried to paste it into the posting text box and it wasn't handled very well.

Why not just use "BTC" in text and BTC in images? A symbol in text isn't really required.
I agree.  Using "BTC" works just fine for the time being.  The market will eventually decide on a universally agreed symbol.  I don't see that there is a need to settle on any particular one at this time.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: helloworld on October 03, 2012, 11:50:55 PM
Not a fan of ฿.

More a fan of Ƀ.

Me too. I'd like to see that one used more often.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: ralree on October 04, 2012, 12:20:53 AM

Mine doesn't look that bad, but it's close.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 12:33:39 AM
The Baht is not an appropriate symbol for Bitcoin. Each symbol represents a specific currency, and Bitcoin is not a baht.

¤ = currency (B¤: good bitcoin symbol)
$ = peso
€ = euro
£ = pound sterling
¥ = yuan
دينار = dinar
฿ = baht (bad bitcoin symbol)



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: FLHippy on October 04, 2012, 12:42:07 AM
Coming from someone promoting Bitcoin as a tool for illegal activities (and thus harming Bitcoin), I guess I should take this as a compliment...

You seem a little nutty to me...

legal activities vary greatly from one place to the next and bitcoin is not limited to any single legal jurisdiction.
morality is maybe you what you really mean, and bitcoin is morally neutral.

I like nuts though. I always buy the chunky brand peanut butter and my parrot loves all kinds of nuts.







Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 04, 2012, 02:13:58 AM
I kinda like Ƀ

Is this part of standard fonts?

If it is, I like it and let use it!
Yes - which is why we need to use it. There was an effort to design a bitcoin logo around it a few months back...something like a BTC50 bounty (of which I pledged BTC10). There was even a pretty good design, but, nothing really got a foothold.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 04, 2012, 02:18:45 AM
Luke-Jr keeps changing it to some weird Russian symbol nobody uses on Wikipedia. It probably shows up as the Baht for him or something.
Um, no, I changed it to the symbol every major Bitcoin website uses - including bitcoin.org, bitcoincharts, and these forums - at least in their favicon: B⃦
This is the standard Unicode symbol used for the B with double vertical strokes.
http://hammeroftruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bitcoin-logo.jpg
The forum has BTC using some CSS (embedded fonts) to workaround the fact that major fonts don't render it as nice, but it is the same symbol.

Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there
You must be confusing Bitcoin with Silk Road.

The B double vertical strokes is a Unicode symbol?  What is its code?  I can't find it on any list of Unicode symbols (maybe I'm not looking in the right place?).


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 02:24:46 AM
Luke-Jr keeps changing it to some weird Russian symbol nobody uses on Wikipedia. It probably shows up as the Baht for him or something.
Um, no, I changed it to the symbol every major Bitcoin website uses - including bitcoin.org, bitcoincharts, and these forums - at least in their favicon: B⃦
This is the standard Unicode symbol used for the B with double vertical strokes.
http://hammeroftruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bitcoin-logo.jpg
The forum has BTC using some CSS (embedded fonts) to workaround the fact that major fonts don't render it as nice, but it is the same symbol.

Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there
You must be confusing Bitcoin with Silk Road.

The B double vertical strokes is a Unicode symbol?  What is its code?  I can't find it on any list of Unicode symbols (maybe I'm not looking in the right place?).
Two unicode symbols that look like one: B⃦.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 04, 2012, 02:33:50 AM
The B double vertical strokes is a Unicode symbol?  What is its code?  I can't find it on any list of Unicode symbols (maybe I'm not looking in the right place?).
Yep. Unicode defines symbols like this using "combining" characters (the "already combined" characters exist only for compatibility with legacy encodings such as Latin-1), so for B⃦ you do:
  • U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0042/index.htm)
  • U+20E6 COMBINING DOUBLE VERTICAL STROKE OVERLAY (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/20e6/index.htm)
This works to some extent for all possible combinations (apparently some people are getting blocks, though?).
From there, fonts can specialize with "ligatures" (renderings that represent a sequence of characters) - which is where things can definitely use improvement.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: nimda on October 04, 2012, 02:57:48 AM
You guys... where can I get these fonts ???
All I see is the baht and the "currency symbol." The rest are boxes and B-boxes.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: helloworld on October 04, 2012, 04:08:28 AM
Coming from someone promoting Bitcoin as a tool for illegal activities (and thus harming Bitcoin), I guess I should take this as a compliment...

You seem a little nutty to me...

[A little nutty] * [all the people who think he's a little nutty] = [a shitload of nutty]


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 12:03:40 PM
Coming from someone promoting Bitcoin as a tool for illegal activities (and thus harming Bitcoin), I guess I should take this as a compliment...

You seem a little nutty to me...

[A little nutty] * [all the people who think he's a little nutty] = [a shitload of nutty]

If that's how it works, then I think I have a shitload of humanness.

You guys... where can I get these fonts ???
All I see is the baht and the "currency symbol." The rest are boxes and B-boxes.
I didn't need to "get a font". Ubuntu 12.04, works out of the box. What OS are you using?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Blind on October 04, 2012, 02:28:12 PM
All of them suck IMHO because they resemble digit 8 too closely. When put next to amount, it takes a little bit of brain power to separate symbol from value:

฿485 - striked 8, still reads as 8, too busy in general
Ƀ249 - bit better as Ƀ is slightly taller than other chars
BTC853 - stands out only because it looks bolded, so sucks anyway (being an image earns three bonus sucks)

B⃦ sucks extra hard for being 2 chars (we invented new problems for you!) and not being displayed properly on my unicode friendly win7 machine, despite 64bit processor and 8gb of ram. /s

How about Bitcoin, the currency of unconditional love: ❤256


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 04, 2012, 02:44:34 PM
BTC853 - stands out only because it looks bolded, so sucks anyway (being an image earns three bonus sucks)
Technically speaking, BitcoinTalk is using a "webfont" for this, not a regular image.

B⃦ sucks extra hard for being 2 chars (we invented new problems for you!)
B⃦ is itself a single character, even if comprised of two codepoints.
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.
Using multiple codepoints for a single character is not new.

and not being displayed properly on my unicode friendly win7 machine, despite 64bit processor and 8gb of ram.
Obviously not very Unicode-friendly, if it can't display Unicode.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 04, 2012, 02:54:56 PM
The B double vertical strokes is a Unicode symbol?  What is its code?  I can't find it on any list of Unicode symbols (maybe I'm not looking in the right place?).
Yep. Unicode defines symbols like this using "combining" characters (the "already combined" characters exist only for compatibility with legacy encodings such as Latin-1), so for B⃦ you do:
  • U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0042/index.htm)
  • U+20E6 COMBINING DOUBLE VERTICAL STROKE OVERLAY (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/20e6/index.htm)
This works to some extent for all possible combinations (apparently some people are getting blocks, though?).
From there, fonts can specialize with "ligatures" (renderings that represent a sequence of characters) - which is where things can definitely use improvement.

Ok, so now I know why it looks shitty on my and many other systems. The vertical strokes are in different places depending on the program I use. In my chromium browser they are too far right and in gedit they are in addition to far right too short.
Knowing it is actually a double-symbol makes me all the more favor any of the single-symbols that at least should look consistent on all systems that manage to display something:
฿ or Ƀ.

The $ symbol being used for many many currencies should be reason enough to not have a problem recycling the Baht symbol for Bitcoin. Here in Chile they also use $ for Chilean Pesos.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Kris on October 04, 2012, 02:57:24 PM
We use Ƀ


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 04, 2012, 03:03:45 PM
B⃦ is itself a single character, even if comprised of two codepoints.
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.
Using multiple codepoints for a single character is not new.

I am now on a completely different computer than yesterday. Your B-Box now shows up as a B with two feet.

I have also had a look at your B-Box via Chrome on a GNex with Jelly Bean. Your B-Box there shows up as a B. Just a B.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Blind on October 04, 2012, 03:22:43 PM
Technically speaking, BitcoinTalk is using a "webfont" for this, not a regular image.

You're asking to install custom font, just to have currency symbol properly displayed in a spreadsheet or email. How many people are going to do that? Think about it. The web is easier as this only has to be done once per site, but that's one extra uneccesary step. We should make life easier, not harder.

and not being displayed properly on my unicode friendly win7 machine, despite 64bit processor and 8gb of ram.
Obviously not very Unicode-friendly, if it can't display Unicode.

Point is, it doesn't work for majority of users here with modern computers and modern, very popular, operating systems who also happen to have technical skills way above the average. If it doesn't work for us, it won't work for general population, period.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Blazr on October 04, 2012, 03:35:41 PM
I didn't need to "get a font". Ubuntu 12.04, works out of the box. What OS are you using?

Doesn't work for me. Ubuntu 12.04 32bit with Firefox, fresh install as of today, and most of these fonts are a b-box, except for ฿ and Ƀ.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: theymos on October 04, 2012, 03:42:36 PM
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.

Actually, BTC is the characters "BTC" with the B made to look like BTC and the "TC" invisible (using webfonts). So you can copy/paste it without losing meaning, even if Unicode isn't fully-supported.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 04, 2012, 04:14:23 PM
Technically speaking, BitcoinTalk is using a "webfont" for this, not a regular image.

You're asking to install custom font, just to have currency symbol properly displayed in a spreadsheet or email. How many people are going to do that? Think about it. The web is easier as this only has to be done once per site, but that's one extra uneccesary step. We should make life easier, not harder.
No. Webfonts are automatically downloaded and used by your browser.

Point is, it doesn't work for majority of users here with modern computers and modern, very popular, operating systems who also happen to have technical skills way above the average. If it doesn't work for us, it won't work for general population, period.
And that's why most Bitcoin websites are still using images for the BTC symbol...


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Blind on October 04, 2012, 04:19:23 PM
[...]

Websites and websites, I want bitcoin symbol in my text files, dammit!


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 04, 2012, 06:11:06 PM
[...]

Websites and websites, I want bitcoin symbol in my text files, dammit!
Ok, so use a working text editor/viewer... Unicode's only been around for well over a decade now.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 07:32:02 PM
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.

Actually, BTC is the characters "BTC" with the B made to look like BTC and the "TC" invisible (using webfonts). So you can copy/paste it without losing meaning, even if Unicode isn't fully-supported.
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC. Use ligatures instead to achieve the desired effect.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: theymos on October 04, 2012, 07:35:02 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.

Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 04, 2012, 07:41:14 PM
Seems to work fine. I just copied a BTC from my broswer into an ANSI encoded text document and it autoresolved to "BTC".


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 07:45:59 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.

Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Yes, I'm sure. I copied this:

100 BTC

And got:

100 B

This is only an issue when the only thing copied is the price tag, as the TC is copied properly if the selection encompasses what's after it too.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 04, 2012, 07:49:42 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.

Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Yes, I'm sure. I copied this:

100 BTC

And got:

100 B

This is only an issue when the only thing copied is the price tag, as the TC is copied properly if the selection encompasses what's after it too.


Just tried it again to be sure, taking care to only copy the tag and not any whitespaces before or after.

Pasted into an ANSI document.

Autoresolves to BTC without a hitch.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 07:58:44 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.

Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Yes, I'm sure. I copied this:

100 BTC

And got:

100 B

This is only an issue when the only thing copied is the price tag, as the TC is copied properly if the selection encompasses what's after it too.


Just tried it again to be sure, taking care to only copy the tag and not any whitespaces before or after.

Pasted into an ANSI document.

Autoresolves to BTC without a hitch.
I guess it is a problem on my end then. Different computers/environments have different methods of handling these zero-width characters.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Blind on October 04, 2012, 08:19:44 PM
[...]
Websites and websites, I want bitcoin symbol in my text files, dammit!
Ok, so use a working text editor/viewer... Unicode's only been around for well over a decade now.

Picture is worth a thousand words (should be mentioned, no problems with for ฿ and Ƀ):

https://i.imgur.com/gLFg5.png

What you propose is an interesting hack, not a reliable solution. It creates more problems than is trying to fix. If it works on your machine, it's an exception, not the rule. But maybe there is an opportunity for you among The Bitcoin Corp gang, in hardware division, selling certified bitcoin machines capable of displaying the symbol properly.


Also,

I am now on a completely different computer than yesterday. Your B-Box now shows up as a B with two feet.
I have also had a look at your B-Box via Chrome on a GNex with Jelly Bean. Your B-Box there shows up as a B. Just a B.

Doesn't work for me. Ubuntu 12.04 32bit with Firefox, fresh install as of today, and most of these fonts are a b-box, except for ฿ and Ƀ.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 08:54:04 PM
[...]
Websites and websites, I want bitcoin symbol in my text files, dammit!
Ok, so use a working text editor/viewer... Unicode's only been around for well over a decade now.
What you propose is an interesting hack, not a reliable solution.
It isn't a hack, it's standard. Though, admittedly, it's a standard widely unsupported (like HTML5).


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Vandroiy on October 04, 2012, 09:13:04 PM
Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there

Please, whatever the heck you use as a symbol for Bitcoin, DON'T PICK SOMETHING ALREADY IN USE FOR A CURRENCY. Such an ambiguous symbol is a horrible choice! Please come to your senses and STOP USING IT.

There's no value in a consensus that's reached with brains off. Use the @ for all I care, BTC is fine, so are Unicode hacks, just not something that's asking for trouble!

I'm going to put this in my sig for a bit, just to make a point.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: nimda on October 04, 2012, 09:59:05 PM

You guys... where can I get these fonts ???
All I see is the baht and the "currency symbol." The rest are boxes and B-boxes.
I didn't need to "get a font". Ubuntu 12.04, works out of the box. What OS are you using?
Windows XP Pro
We use Ƀ
Great, another box. Seriously wtf is wrong with my system?
I didn't need to "get a font". Ubuntu 12.04, works out of the box. What OS are you using?

Doesn't work for me. Ubuntu 12.04 32bit with Firefox, fresh install as of today, and most of these fonts are a b-box, except for ฿ and Ƀ.
Baht and box. ???
Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there

Please, whatever the heck you use as a symbol for Bitcoin, DON'T PICK SOMETHING ALREADY IN USE FOR A CURRENCY. Such an ambiguous symbol is a horrible choice! Please come to your senses and STOP USING IT.

There's no value in a consensus that's reached with brains off. Use the @ for all I care, BTC is fine, so are Unicode hacks, just not something that's asking for trouble!

I'm going to put this in my sig for a bit, just to make a point.
$ works fine :/


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 04, 2012, 10:01:16 PM
Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there

Please, whatever the heck you use as a symbol for Bitcoin, DON'T PICK SOMETHING ALREADY IN USE FOR A CURRENCY. Such an ambiguous symbol is a horrible choice! Please come to your senses and STOP USING IT.

There's no value in a consensus that's reached with brains off. Use the @ for all I care, BTC is fine, so are Unicode hacks, just not something that's asking for trouble!

I'm going to put this in my sig for a bit, just to make a point.

Wow! Calm down! There are many contracts done in Dollar, Peso, Brazilian real, Nicaraguan córdoba, Tongan paʻanga,  Cape Verdean escudo,  Portuguese escudo and none of the involved countries ever got any of the others into legal trouble about the $ sign.
$ (disambiguation) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$_(disambiguation))


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: herzmeister on October 04, 2012, 10:10:40 PM
How about Bitcoin, the currency of unconditional love: ❤256

used by villages.cc (https://villages.cc/) (a simple ripple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_monetary_system) implementation) already  :-*


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: coinpeculiator on October 04, 2012, 10:14:56 PM
Guys, just use a thai butt

the us dollar is sometimes drawn with two vertical lines, i heard it's from the early days of a u being superimposed on to the S for US

we use a B with two slashes but the most commonly working computer symbol only has one, just like a dollar, yet more proof bitcoins are a real currency


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 04, 2012, 10:17:17 PM
Anyways, we generally use the Thai Baht for Bitcoins, right?

฿ <- that right there

Please, whatever the heck you use as a symbol for Bitcoin, DON'T PICK SOMETHING ALREADY IN USE FOR A CURRENCY. Such an ambiguous symbol is a horrible choice! Please come to your senses and STOP USING IT.

There's no value in a consensus that's reached with brains off. Use the @ for all I care, BTC is fine, so are Unicode hacks, just not something that's asking for trouble!

I'm going to put this in my sig for a bit, just to make a point.

Wow! Calm down! There are many contracts done in Dollar, Peso, Brazilian real, Nicaraguan córdoba, Tongan paʻanga,  Cape Verdean escudo,  Portuguese escudo and none of the involved countries ever got any of the others into legal trouble about the $ sign.
$ (disambiguation) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$_(disambiguation))
Great! Let's adopt $ as the Bitcoin symbol, so we'll fit right in.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 04, 2012, 10:45:21 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.
Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 04, 2012, 10:51:45 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.
Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"

Then there is something wrong with your system. Here on my standard Windows 7 64bit with 8GB RAM it displays just fine.

(Ok, seriously, are you talking about this: BTC? So either it should load the Webfont resulting in BTC being displayed as "B with decoration", "invisible T", "invisible C" or your w3c/lynx on a non-unicode console should just display BTC … or your smart browser decides that there is something wrong with letters that have zero width so it defaults to another font. Which browser are you using?)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 04, 2012, 10:58:44 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.
Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"
(Ok, seriously, are you talking about this: BTC? So either it should load the Webfont resulting in BTC being displayed as "B with decoration", "invisible T", "invisible C" or your w3c/lynx on a non-unicode console should just display BTC … or your smart browser decides that there is something wrong with letters that have zero width so it defaults to another font. Which browser are you using?)
"B⃦TC" is shown by Konqueror/KHTML, Rekonq, and QupZilla.
"B⃦" alone is shown by Chromium and Firefox.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 04, 2012, 11:19:04 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.
Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"
(Ok, seriously, are you talking about this: BTC? So either it should load the Webfont resulting in BTC being displayed as "B with decoration", "invisible T", "invisible C" or your w3c/lynx on a non-unicode console should just display BTC … or your smart browser decides that there is something wrong with letters that have zero width so it defaults to another font. Which browser are you using?)
"B⃦TC" is shown by Konqueror/KHTML, Rekonq, and QupZilla.
"B⃦" alone is shown by Chromium and Firefox.

Konqueror displays ฿ and Ƀ right but I have the same problem with BTC. Interesting. For me, it's really narrowing down to either ฿ or Ƀ then.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 04, 2012, 11:44:34 PM
This is a bad idea, because the browser isn't guaranteed to copy the invisible TC.
Are you sure? The characters are "visible", but the font defines them to have zero width.
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"
(Ok, seriously, are you talking about this: BTC? So either it should load the Webfont resulting in BTC being displayed as "B with decoration", "invisible T", "invisible C" or your w3c/lynx on a non-unicode console should just display BTC … or your smart browser decides that there is something wrong with letters that have zero width so it defaults to another font. Which browser are you using?)
"B⃦TC" is shown by Konqueror/KHTML, Rekonq, and QupZilla.
Nobody browses with these except Richard Stallman and Co.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: theymos on October 05, 2012, 12:14:34 AM
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"

Sounds like your browser is ignoring parts of my webfont, likely in violation of standards. :)

Anyone know how to fix this?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 05, 2012, 02:10:45 AM
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"

Sounds like your browser is ignoring parts of my webfont, likely in violation of standards. :)

Anyone know how to fix this?

Hey don't tell me there are browsers that violate standards!!!!1!!

I guess using Ƀ could fix that issue.

Ok, you made that font with T and C having 0pt/px/cm width. Can you try 1px instead? My guess is that konqueror tries to fix missing letters and a 1px letter would most likely not trigger such a "fix" but with the letter being invisible it would still yield almost the same result.

And please while you are at it, un-bold it ;)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 05, 2012, 03:51:19 AM
The B double vertical strokes is a Unicode symbol?  What is its code?  I can't find it on any list of Unicode symbols (maybe I'm not looking in the right place?).
Yep. Unicode defines symbols like this using "combining" characters (the "already combined" characters exist only for compatibility with legacy encodings such as Latin-1), so for B⃦ you do:
  • U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0042/index.htm)
  • U+20E6 COMBINING DOUBLE VERTICAL STROKE OVERLAY (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/20e6/index.htm)
This works to some extent for all possible combinations (apparently some people are getting blocks, though?).
From there, fonts can specialize with "ligatures" (renderings that represent a sequence of characters) - which is where things can definitely use improvement.
I see...so it will require two codes to generate...in time I suppose the implementation will catch up with the spec. I get Bbox on my iPad on iOS 6.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 05, 2012, 08:15:13 AM
And please while you are at it, un-bold it ;)

Seconding this request.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Vandroiy on October 05, 2012, 10:31:15 AM
Wow! Calm down! There are many contracts done in Dollar, Peso, Brazilian real, Nicaraguan córdoba, Tongan paʻanga,  Cape Verdean escudo,  Portuguese escudo and none of the involved countries ever got any of the others into legal trouble about the $ sign.
$ (disambiguation) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$_(disambiguation))

I'm not talking about countries getting into legal trouble... how does that even work? I mean "OMG you scammer, I obviously meant Nicaraguan córdoba!". Imagine people in Thailand start using BTC!

We're not damned imposters of anything else. There's no reason to use that other than it looking "familiar", which I also find wrong for Bitcoin. It's a stupid choice, and it doesn't need a great analyst to see that.



Ƀ really doesn't look like a bad choice. I never liked the color scheme people advertise with it, but the symbol seems perfect.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 05, 2012, 10:35:07 AM
Wow! Calm down! There are many contracts done in Dollar, Peso, Brazilian real, Nicaraguan córdoba, Tongan paʻanga,  Cape Verdean escudo,  Portuguese escudo and none of the involved countries ever got any of the others into legal trouble about the $ sign.
$ (disambiguation) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$_(disambiguation))

I'm not talking about countries getting into legal trouble... how does that even work? I mean "OMG you scammer, I obviously meant Nicaraguan córdoba!". Imagine people in Thailand start using BTC!

People in Thailand already use BTC.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: herzmeister on October 05, 2012, 10:49:28 AM
Ƀ really doesn't look like a bad choice. I never liked the color scheme people advertise with it, but the symbol seems perfect.

I like it too, and about the criticism that it looks almost like the number 8, maybe serifs should be added, like:

https://i.imgur.com/xFEW8.png


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 05, 2012, 03:54:25 PM
Ƀ really doesn't look like a bad choice. I never liked the color scheme people advertise with it, but the symbol seems perfect.

I'm not against Ƀ neither. It's my preference. I'm just saying that even the $ sign would be fine with me if the majority here wishes to use it. I just don't like to not have an agreement that I can push on Wikipedia or other pages. I'm pretty sure that a consensus would rule out …

I like it too, and about the criticism that it looks almost like the number 8, maybe serifs should be added, like:

… custom solutions and symbols that just render badly on 50% of all computers.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 06, 2012, 03:19:40 PM
Is the "TC" supposed to actually be invisible? I see it as "B⃦TC"

Sounds like your browser is ignoring parts of my webfont, likely in violation of standards. :)

Anyone know how to fix this?
Ligatures would, and they would fix the copying problem too (hint, hint).


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 07:37:29 PM
The B double vertical strokes is a Unicode symbol?  What is its code?  I can't find it on any list of Unicode symbols (maybe I'm not looking in the right place?).
Yep. Unicode defines symbols like this using "combining" characters (the "already combined" characters exist only for compatibility with legacy encodings such as Latin-1), so for B⃦ you do:
  • U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0042/index.htm)
  • U+20E6 COMBINING DOUBLE VERTICAL STROKE OVERLAY (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/20e6/index.htm)
This works to some extent for all possible combinations (apparently some people are getting blocks, though?).
From there, fonts can specialize with "ligatures" (renderings that represent a sequence of characters) - which is where things can definitely use improvement.
I see...so it will require two codes to generate...in time I suppose the implementation will catch up with the spec. I get Bbox on my iPad on iOS 6.
It renders correctly on my laptop...


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 08:43:36 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.
This isn't a vote; B⃦ has been the standard symbol since the beginning, and there is no good reason to change that. This is just Atlas trying to turn Bitcoin into mere "Silk Road currency".

Except not every implementation of Unicode displays whatever symbol that is.

In Firefox 15 on OS X Leopard I see the letter B followed by "20E6" for a Unicode symbol that won't display (Combining Double Vertical Stroke Overlay (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/20e6/index.htm)).  In Emacs I see B followed by a different symbol (Both Firefox and Emacs are configured to use UTF-8 on my system).

The problem is that you've opted for a UTF-16 character instead of a UTF-8 character.  UTF-8 is far more common and accessible.  This is why, like shamoons, I argued in favour of using the Thai Baht symbol last year.

The only argument against using ฿ is that it is used for THB aleady.  On the other hand $ is already used for USD, CAD, AUD and NZD.  While ¥ is used for Yen and Yuan.  Currencies sharing symbols is nothing new, that's why we have three letter codes for them as well.

Once again, I don't see any problem with using the baht symbol for Bitcoin and it has the added advantage of displaying correctly on a wide range of systems.

This was debated in detail last year (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=369.0) and my post in that thread (which included a couple of other suggestions in addition the the baht) is here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=369.msg83448#msg83448).  My opinion in my first paragraph hasn't changed:  I think that the symbol ought to be an existing UTF-8 symbol so that it can be readily used on most systems or browsers and not require additional fonts to be installed.

BTW, there's a poll in that thread from last year which was resoundingly in favour of using the baht symbol.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 08:45:43 PM
Uh, guys... what am I missing here?

https://i.imgur.com/SpGwJ.png

See, this is exactly the problem of selecting a UTF-16 symbol over a UTF-8 symbol.  If you're going to select a standard then go for the widest implementation of Unicode, which means UTF-8 and not UTF-16.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 08:51:21 PM
More to the point, I can see the other symbols here just fine.  If B⃦ is supposed to be the best symbol, and I (and others) cannot see it properly on standard systems, perhaps it would be better to move to a different symbol that IS displayed properly on a standard system.
Images seem to be working fine until mainstream fonts are updated. Thankfully, we also have webfonts now. :)

Which is fine if everything you do is on the web, but not everything is and it should not have to be.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.
This isn't a vote; B⃦ has been the standard symbol since the beginning, and there is no good reason to change that. This is just Atlas trying to turn Bitcoin into mere "Silk Road currency".

Except not every implementation of Unicode displays whatever symbol that is.
If they don't, it's a bug.

The problem is that you've opted for a UTF-16 character instead of a UTF-8 character.  UTF-8 is far more common and accessible.
B⃦ is standard UTF-8, it is not UTF-16.

Once again, I don't see any problem with using the baht symbol for Bitcoin and it has the added advantage of displaying correctly on a wide range of systems.
I'm not addressing whether baht is an acceptable replacement or not; just the reality that it isn't the current standard BTC symbol.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 08:59:15 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.
This isn't a vote; B⃦ has been the standard symbol since the beginning, and there is no good reason to change that. This is just Atlas trying to turn Bitcoin into mere "Silk Road currency".

Except not every implementation of Unicode displays whatever symbol that is.
If they don't, it's a bug.

The problem is that you've opted for a UTF-16 character instead of a UTF-8 character.  UTF-8 is far more common and accessible.
B⃦ is standard UTF-8, it is not UTF-16.

Once again, I don't see any problem with using the baht symbol for Bitcoin and it has the added advantage of displaying correctly on a wide range of systems.
I'm not addressing whether baht is an acceptable replacement or not; just the reality that it isn't the current standard BTC symbol.

How long until implementations work for most people? 1 year, 5 years, a decade?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 09:01:52 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.
This isn't a vote; B⃦ has been the standard symbol since the beginning, and there is no good reason to change that. This is just Atlas trying to turn Bitcoin into mere "Silk Road currency".

Except not every implementation of Unicode displays whatever symbol that is.
If they don't, it's a bug.
How long until implementations work for most people? 1 year, 5 years, a decade?
Depends on how long "most people" use broken stuff. It works in all the software I run, at least, excepting only Links (http://links.twibright.com/).


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:05:10 PM
B⃦ sucks extra hard for being 2 chars (we invented new problems for you!)
B⃦ is itself a single character, even if comprised of two codepoints.
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.
Using multiple codepoints for a single character is not new.

How many times do you need to see posts from others saying (and even showing) that it isn't displaying for the majority of people as it does for you?

Are you using UTF-16 instead of UTF-8?

Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?

Have you viewed this symbol on any system other than your own?

I'm guessing your answers will be: infinity, yes, no and no, respectively.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 07, 2012, 09:08:17 PM
The only argument against using ฿ is that it is used for THB aleady.  On the other hand $ is already used for USD, CAD, AUD and NZD.  While ¥ is used for Yen and Yuan.  Currencies sharing symbols is nothing new, that's why we have three letter codes for them as well.

The $ symbol also is used in several countries that use a Peso variant as well.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 09:08:57 PM
B⃦ sucks extra hard for being 2 chars (we invented new problems for you!)
B⃦ is itself a single character, even if comprised of two codepoints.
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.
Using multiple codepoints for a single character is not new.

How many times do you need to see posts from others saying (and even showing) that it isn't displaying for the majority of people as it does for you?
Such problems are irrelevant. I'm not suggesting changing anything.

Are you using UTF-16 instead of UTF-8?
No, I only use UTF-8.

Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?
Yep, in fact I'm pretty sure these forums use UTF-8 only.

Edit: Actually, looking at the source, I see the forum is choosing ISO-8859-1 encoding, which doesn't work with Unicode at all. This is likely the reason why many people are having technical problems.

Have you viewed this symbol on any system other than your own?
Yep, just pulled it up on a Mac I have lying around and it rendered fine in Lion/Safari.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:09:46 PM
Ok, so now I know why it looks shitty on my and many other systems. The vertical strokes are in different places depending on the program I use. In my chromium browser they are too far right and in gedit they are in addition to far right too short.
Knowing it is actually a double-symbol makes me all the more favor any of the single-symbols that at least should look consistent on all systems that manage to display something:
฿ or Ƀ.

Absolutely agree.

The $ symbol being used for many many currencies should be reason enough to not have a problem recycling the Baht symbol for Bitcoin. Here in Chile they also use $ for Chilean Pesos.

Exactly, so many currency symbols are reused around the world that the arguments against using the baht symbol are basically along the lines of "we wish we had our own recognisable currency symbol."


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Yuhfhrh on October 07, 2012, 09:10:02 PM
B⃦ sucks extra hard for being 2 chars (we invented new problems for you!)
B⃦ is itself a single character, even if comprised of two codepoints.
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.
Using multiple codepoints for a single character is not new.

How many times do you need to see posts from others saying (and even showing) that it isn't displaying for the majority of people as it does for you?

Are you using UTF-16 instead of UTF-8?

Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?

Have you viewed this symbol on any system other than your own?

I'm guessing your answers will be: infinity, yes, no and no, respectively.


It isn't showing up for me on my computer or phone either.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.
This isn't a vote; B⃦ has been the standard symbol since the beginning, and there is no good reason to change that. This is just Atlas trying to turn Bitcoin into mere "Silk Road currency".

Except not every implementation of Unicode displays whatever symbol that is.
If they don't, it's a bug.
How long until implementations work for most people? 1 year, 5 years, a decade?
Depends on how long "most people" use broken stuff. It works in all the software I run, at least, excepting only Links (http://links.twibright.com/).

I'm betting in 5 years it'll still be broken for about half of folks...


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:14:12 PM
[...]

Websites and websites, I want bitcoin symbol in my text files, dammit!

Yep.  I want it in my text files, my (plain text) email, my ODF docs and everywhere else.  I also don't want it broken by a GPG clear signature.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:16:25 PM
Seems to work fine. I just copied a BTC from my broswer into an ANSI encoded text document and it autoresolved to "BTC".

When I copy the image into Emacs it just shows up as a B, webfonts and this forum's CSS only work where that additional configuration is set.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 09:17:24 PM
I made a test page for the BTC symbol in Unicode (http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/btc.html) since this forum forces a non-Unicode encoding.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:27:39 PM
My vote is for the Thai Baht. It's clean, elegant and standard.
This isn't a vote; B⃦ has been the standard symbol since the beginning, and there is no good reason to change that. This is just Atlas trying to turn Bitcoin into mere "Silk Road currency".

Except not every implementation of Unicode displays whatever symbol that is.
If they don't, it's a bug.

If so then it's a bug that affects the majority of systems, programs and users, not to mention the wider world.

The problem is that you've opted for a UTF-16 character instead of a UTF-8 character.  UTF-8 is far more common and accessible.
B⃦ is standard UTF-8, it is not UTF-16.

My system supports Unicode 5.0 or 5.1 with UTF-8 and all my programs are configured to use UTF-8, I can assure you your pet favourite isn't displaying properly.

Once again, I don't see any problem with using the baht symbol for Bitcoin and it has the added advantage of displaying correctly on a wide range of systems.
I'm not addressing whether baht is an acceptable replacement or not; just the reality that it isn't the current standard BTC symbol.

Then the current standard is a woeful choice for one.

I'm throwing my support behind either ฿ or Ƀ.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 09:33:39 PM
Luke -- here's how it renders on Mountain Lion / chrome:
http://www.uofr.net/~bcg/a.png


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 09:34:59 PM
My system supports Unicode 5.0 or 5.1 with UTF-8 and all my programs are configured to use UTF-8, I can assure you your pet favourite isn't displaying properly.
Obviously not then, at least if you tested with my test page (since the forums don't support Unicode properly). Unicode 5.0 chapter 3 ("Conformance") (http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.0.0/ch03.pdf) definitely covers combining characters.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:35:25 PM
B⃦ sucks extra hard for being 2 chars (we invented new problems for you!)
B⃦ is itself a single character, even if comprised of two codepoints.
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.
Using multiple codepoints for a single character is not new.

How many times do you need to see posts from others saying (and even showing) that it isn't displaying for the majority of people as it does for you?
Such problems are irrelevant. I'm not suggesting changing anything.

It's hardly irrelevant if people can't see what you mean to show them.

Are you using UTF-16 instead of UTF-8?
No, I only use UTF-8.

Which version?

Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?
Yep, in fact I'm pretty sure these forums use UTF-8 only.

Edit: Actually, looking at the source, I see the forum is choosing ISO-8859-1 encoding, which doesn't work with Unicode at all. This is likely the reason why many people are having technical problems.

If that's the case then the Bitcoin wiki has the same problem.

Have you viewed this symbol on any system other than your own?
Yep, just pulled it up on a Mac I have lying around and it rendered fine in Lion/Safari.

Well, on mine it gives me trouble on Firefox, Seamonkey and Safari.

A standard that does not work consistently across multiple platforms doesn't really meet the definition of standard.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 09:39:41 PM
looks the same on safari and chrome on mountain lion.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 09:40:02 PM
Luke -- here's how it renders on Mountain Lion / chrome:
http://www.uofr.net/~bcg/a.png
Looks pretty good - except for bold and italic. Wonder why those are messed up for you.

Are you using UTF-16 instead of UTF-8?
No, I only use UTF-8.
Which version?
RFC 3629

Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?
Yep, in fact I'm pretty sure these forums use UTF-8 only.

Edit: Actually, looking at the source, I see the forum is choosing ISO-8859-1 encoding, which doesn't work with Unicode at all. This is likely the reason why many people are having technical problems.
If that's the case then the Bitcoin wiki has the same problem.
No, the wiki seems to select UTF-8 properly.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:41:56 PM
I made a test page for the BTC symbol in Unicode (http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/btc.html) since this forum forces a non-Unicode encoding.

This is what I see:

http://www.adversary.org/images/btc-test.png


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 09:43:33 PM
I made a test page for the BTC symbol in Unicode (http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/btc.html) since this forum forces a non-Unicode encoding.

This is what I see:

http://www.adversary.org/images/btc-test.png

what OS and browser?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 09:51:10 PM
I made a test page for the BTC symbol in Unicode (http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/btc.html) since this forum forces a non-Unicode encoding.

This is what I see:

http://www.adversary.org/images/btc-test.png

what OS and browser?

OS X 10.5.8 and Firefox 15.  Seamonkey produced the same result.

Safari, on the other hand, produced this:

http://www.adversary.org/images/btc-test2.png

I included the top of the browser which shows a different symbol.  That symbol matches what Emacs produces.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 09:56:17 PM
i guess it's a function of the OS more than the broswer then?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 10:04:26 PM
Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?
Yep, in fact I'm pretty sure these forums use UTF-8 only.

Edit: Actually, looking at the source, I see the forum is choosing ISO-8859-1 encoding, which doesn't work with Unicode at all. This is likely the reason why many people are having technical problems.
If that's the case then the Bitcoin wiki has the same problem.
No, the wiki seems to select UTF-8 properly.

We've already established from the numerous responses to you earlier in this thread that you're one of the exceptions who can see this symbol, you're not in the majority.  Not by a long stretch.

I expect (and intend) to use a symbol which will display on the widest range of hardware and software available globally.  This means taking into account older systems and operating systems.

So as much as you may wish it weren't so, both ฿ and Ƀ still have an edge.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 10:06:30 PM
Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?
Yep, in fact I'm pretty sure these forums use UTF-8 only.

Edit: Actually, looking at the source, I see the forum is choosing ISO-8859-1 encoding, which doesn't work with Unicode at all. This is likely the reason why many people are having technical problems.
If that's the case then the Bitcoin wiki has the same problem.
No, the wiki seems to select UTF-8 properly.

We've already established from the numerous responses to you earlier in this thread that you're one of the exceptions who can see this symbol, you're not in the majority.  Not by a long stretch.

I expect (and intend) to use a symbol which will display on the widest range of hardware and software available globally.  This means taking into account older systems and operating systems.

So as much as you may wish it weren't so, both ฿ and Ƀ still have an edge.

It would be nice to have an educated, well thought out, and reasonable estimate of the amount of time it would take for a large fraction of users to have the BTC symbol work (and for someone to fill in all the assumptions with reasonable guesses)...


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 10:08:47 PM
i guess it's a function of the OS more than the broswer then?

Very likely.  Which means it will be years before Luke-Jr will be satisfied.

What I'd like to know is whether an OLPC system will display this alleged "standard" symbol.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 07, 2012, 10:15:27 PM
i guess it's a function of the OS more than the broswer then?

Very likely.  Which means it will be years before Luke-Jr will be satisfied.

What I'd like to know is whether an OLPC system will display this alleged "standard" symbol.

I sold my iPhone 4s when I ordered the iPhone 5...and got a temp junk phone for the interim...I should see how it renders the test site...it's a modern "pre-iphone" phone with keyboard and what not...lol!


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 10:16:13 PM
It would be nice to have an educated, well thought out, and reasonable estimate of the amount of time it would take for a large fraction of users to have the BTC symbol work (and for someone to fill in all the assumptions with reasonable guesses)...

There's no way of avoiding years of time and effort.  It's either a system related issue of failing to implement existing UTF-8 to get the double symbol to work or needs a single symbol (with both strokes) added to Unicode.  Either way we'll be waiting years before 80-90% have moved on to systems which will support it.

The alternative is to use ฿, Ƀ, ¤ or some other symbol until a consistently displaying independent symbol is available to everyone without relying on the web or customisations.  As much as Luke-Jr rails against it, this is exactly what will happen.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 10:29:55 PM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 10:50:08 PM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.

There are plenty of older systems around, if you really want to enforce your ideal OS standard then I'll believe it when you turn up on my doorstep.  I'm easy to find.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 10:53:02 PM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.
There are plenty of older systems around, if you really want to enforce your ideal OS standard then I'll believe it when you turn up on my doorstep.  I'm easy to find.
At the very least, it's grounds for automatic ignoring complaints about standard things not working for you. The bugs were already fixed, you're just using a known-buggy version.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 10:55:33 PM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.
There are plenty of older systems around, if you really want to enforce your ideal OS standard then I'll believe it when you turn up on my doorstep.  I'm easy to find.
At the very least, it's grounds for automatic ignoring complaints about standard things not working for you. The bugs were already fixed, you're just using a known-buggy version.

And how do you respond to people using Ubuntu 12.04 encountering the same problem?  Or other Windows users who reported the same thing?  It's not just me, remember.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 07, 2012, 11:05:20 PM
I made a test page for the BTC symbol in Unicode (http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/btc.html) since this forum forces a non-Unicode encoding.

https://i.imgur.com/LHNmU.png

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (64 Bit) with all updates, even optional ones.

Google Chrome 22.0.1229.79 m




On my Gnex, it's a bunch of normal B's.

Android 4.1.1 (Jelly Bean) / unrooted
Baseband:  I9250XXLF1
Kernel:  3.0.31-g6fb96c9
android-build@vpbs1 )
#1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Jun 28 11:02:39 PDT 2012

Chrome 18.0.1025308


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: FLHippy on October 07, 2012, 11:06:26 PM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.
There are plenty of older systems around, if you really want to enforce your ideal OS standard then I'll believe it when you turn up on my doorstep.  I'm easy to find.
At the very least, it's grounds for automatic ignoring complaints about standard things not working for you. The bugs were already fixed, you're just using a known-buggy version.

If this is truly a serious discussion about adopting a standard symbol.... whatever is picked should display on the least advanced media..

like a green screen WYSE terminal. Vt100 terminal, etc.

Or a piece of paper.

Suggesting that people who aren't upgraded to the latest version of something should be discounted is really elitist.





Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 07, 2012, 11:15:02 PM
B⃦ sucks extra hard for being 2 chars (we invented new problems for you!)
B⃦ is itself a single character, even if comprised of two codepoints.
It's also the same character the forum is using a webfont to render in BTC.
Using multiple codepoints for a single character is not new.

How many times do you need to see posts from others saying (and even showing) that it isn't displaying for the majority of people as it does for you?
Such problems are irrelevant. I'm not suggesting changing anything.

Are you using UTF-16 instead of UTF-8?
No, I only use UTF-8.

Have you successfully rendered this symbol on a system using UTF-8?
Yep, in fact I'm pretty sure these forums use UTF-8 only.

Edit: Actually, looking at the source, I see the forum is choosing ISO-8859-1 encoding, which doesn't work with Unicode at all. This is likely the reason why many people are having technical problems.

No, it's not. The forum encodes the text in ISO-8859-1 encoding, which is the standard for all webpages and has full support of all languages. The only deficiency in ISO-8859-1 is that unicode characters cannot be sent directly, which is not what the forum does. It, correctly, encodes all non-codepage characters with HTML entities, which is the standard method of unicode encoding today and is universally used.

Your test page accomplishes even less support than this forum, because some browsers choose to ignore encodings in the HTTP header and detect it themselves.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: nimda on October 07, 2012, 11:19:12 PM
What about mobile browsers? They represent a growing portion of the market, and some of these symbols don't even show up on the Galaxy S3.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 07, 2012, 11:20:34 PM
What about mobile browsers? They represent a growing portion of the market, and some of these symbols don't even show up on the Galaxy S3.
Then use BTC, inline images, or webfonts. I'm not supporting usage of the proper unicode symbol, unlike Luke, but rather discontinuation of usage of the Baht symbol.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 07, 2012, 11:28:11 PM
I made a test page for the BTC symbol in Unicode (http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/btc.html) since this forum forces a non-Unicode encoding.

https://i.imgur.com/LHNmU.png

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (64 Bit) with all updates, even optional ones.

Google Chrome 22.0.1229.79 m

I got the same on my Nokia N9 running MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan version PR1.3 (the current version) using the current version of Opera Mobile.

The same thing appears with Amaya.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 07, 2012, 11:30:01 PM
Or a piece of paper.
There shouldn't be any problems writing/reading it on paper...

Suggesting that people who aren't upgraded to the latest version of something should be discounted is really elitist.
I didn't say that. His version is so old that it isn't even patched against known security vulnerabilities. It's like driving a car with known-bad brakes.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: FLHippy on October 07, 2012, 11:45:45 PM
Suggesting that people who aren't upgraded to the latest version of something should be discounted is really elitist.
I didn't say that. His version is so old that it isn't even patched against known security vulnerabilities. It's like driving a car with known-bad brakes.

It came off that way. Especially when combined with the suggested ban of old operating systems from the internet :)

FWIW... I am upgraded to the latest version of OS X and safari and the two character double vertical line thing looks like crap on my browser also. The lines are shifted to the right as shown by others. All of the samples on the luke-jr test page kind of look like a hacked B in one way or another. (which is what they are)

The BTC conversion to the image looks good where supported and requires no mandatory support by those who don't wish to support it. It will look good and be understood on everything from a typewriter to a web browser.



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 07, 2012, 11:48:55 PM
Suggesting that people who aren't upgraded to the latest version of something should be discounted is really elitist.
I didn't say that. His version is so old that it isn't even patched against known security vulnerabilities. It's like driving a car with known-bad brakes.

It came off that way. Especially when combined with the suggested ban of old operating systems from the internet :)

FWIW... I am upgraded to the latest version of OS X and safari and the two character double vertical line thing looks like crap on my browser also. The lines are shifted to the right as shown by others. All of the samples on the luke-jr test page kind of look like a hacked B in one way or another. (which is what they are)

The BTC conversion to the image looks good where supported and requires no mandatory support by those who don't wish to support it. It will look good and be understood on everything from a typewriter to a web browser.
On a typewriter, one can write B, go back, and write the double bar.

By the way, the "B-Box" looks perfect on my computer. Ubuntu 12.04.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Blind on October 08, 2012, 02:15:36 AM
Luke, did you get giant BTC tatooed on your butt that you defend it so religiously?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 08, 2012, 02:34:42 AM
Luke -- here's how it renders on Mountain Lion / chrome:
http://www.uofr.net/~bcg/a.png

pfft! oh my god! coffee everywhere :)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 08, 2012, 02:54:17 AM
It would be nice to have an educated, well thought out, and reasonable estimate of the amount of time it would take for a large fraction of users to have the BTC symbol work (and for someone to fill in all the assumptions with reasonable guesses)...

Well, sorry but the discussion in this thread is less about BTC than about the general UTF-8 code to be used when communicating bitcoin and when it comes to that, using some web-font is no solution as not every form of communication allows to paint pretty pictures (use webfonts).
Also I see it as no solution to add some post in the Meta-subforum on how to make BTC display well when we want newbies to come and feel at home without having to jump through loops prior to using the forum.

OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.
There are plenty of older systems around, if you really want to enforce your ideal OS standard then I'll believe it when you turn up on my doorstep.  I'm easy to find.
At the very least, it's grounds for automatic ignoring complaints about standard things not working for you. The bugs were already fixed, you're just using a known-buggy version.

You may very well ignore his complaint concerning his system but you might have noticed that there are many others with fully updated machines that have severe issues that you can't ignore. For them you only have your religious reasons about pushing standards against any common sense.

Suggesting that people who aren't upgraded to the latest version of something should be discounted is really elitist.

Believe it or not, I met elitist people on this very forum ;)

Luke, did you get giant BTC tatooed on your butt that you defend it so religiously?

No, he has B|| on his forehead.


Furthermore, I consider that we should use Ƀ as the official Bitcoin symbol.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: bg002h on October 09, 2012, 12:54:34 AM

Furthermore, I consider that we should use Ƀ as the official Bitcoin symbol.

I second the motion...we can wait 5-10 years to get back to the B||...but we need a killer logo to introduce the B- symbol...
Logo Design Contest by Coinabul (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91068.0)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on October 09, 2012, 12:45:11 PM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.

So I guess I can't run Bitcoin on my Apple IIgs?
http://www.geeks.org/~taubert/gstcp/


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 09, 2012, 12:48:58 PM
What about my Commodore 64?  :-[

http://www.jammingsignal.com/leif/commodore/ethernet.html


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: DiThi on October 09, 2012, 01:21:50 PM
https://i.imgur.com/rKgnr.png

Ubuntu 12.04 64 bit.

I like both  ฿ and Ƀ.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: FLHippy on October 09, 2012, 02:12:27 PM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.

So I guess I can't run Bitcoin on my Apple IIgs?
http://www.geeks.org/~taubert/gstcp/


It's amazing how many commodores and apples still exist and work. Excluding hard drives, floppy drives and the like.

Every one of the laptops I have owned eventually shit the bed yet I still have a working Commodore 4plus, apple IIe, Commodore 64, pong, and the atari 2600 (Sears version), Wyse terminal, VT100 terminal, and more geeky old shit that used a lot of power. I hold on to a 13 inch color tv just to plug these things in, wait tens of minutes for it to start and 10s more minutes to load a game just so we can point and laugh at an 8 bit world. (Loaded from cassette with a modern boom box, holy shit, those things are 32 years old and they still work)



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 09, 2012, 02:16:56 PM
It's amazing how many commodores and apples still exist and work. Excluding hard drives, floppy drives and the like.

Every one of the laptops I have owned eventually shit the bed yet I still have a working Commodore 4plus, apple IIe, Commodore 64, pong, and the atari 2600 (Sears version), Wyse terminal, VT100 terminal, and more geeky old shit that used a lot of power. I hold on to a 13 inch color tv just to plug these things in, wait tens of minutes for it to start and 10s more minutes to load a game just so we can point and laugh at an 8 bit world. (Loaded from cassette with a modern boom box, holy shit, those things are 32 years old and they still work)
Back then, they built computers to last. Who wants to pay $20,000 for a piece of equipment that dies in a few years? Nowadays, people replace their computers so often for upgrades that it doesn't really make sense to build them to last more than a few years.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on October 09, 2012, 02:25:55 PM
There
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.

There are so many devices older then that online it's silly. It's an arbitrarily silly requirement.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 09, 2012, 02:48:49 PM

It's amazing how many commodores and apples still exist and work. Excluding hard drives, floppy drives and the like.

Every one of the laptops I have owned eventually shit the bed yet I still have a working Commodore 4plus, apple IIe, Commodore 64, pong, and the atari 2600 (Sears version), Wyse terminal, VT100 terminal, and more geeky old shit that used a lot of power. I hold on to a 13 inch color tv just to plug these things in, wait tens of minutes for it to start and 10s more minutes to load a game just so we can point and laugh at an 8 bit world. (Loaded from cassette with a modern boom box, holy shit, those things are 32 years old and they still work)



I've still got a PET 2001. Works like a charm even after 35 years.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: SgtSpike on October 09, 2012, 04:15:10 PM
It's amazing how many commodores and apples still exist and work. Excluding hard drives, floppy drives and the like.

Every one of the laptops I have owned eventually shit the bed yet I still have a working Commodore 4plus, apple IIe, Commodore 64, pong, and the atari 2600 (Sears version), Wyse terminal, VT100 terminal, and more geeky old shit that used a lot of power. I hold on to a 13 inch color tv just to plug these things in, wait tens of minutes for it to start and 10s more minutes to load a game just so we can point and laugh at an 8 bit world. (Loaded from cassette with a modern boom box, holy shit, those things are 32 years old and they still work)
Back then, they built computers to last. Who wants to pay $20,000 for a piece of equipment that dies in a few years? Nowadays, people replace their computers so often for upgrades that it doesn't really make sense to build them to last more than a few years.
Not to mention, modern electronics are incredibly complicated compared to old pong machines and commodores.  Lots more bits and pieces crammed into smaller spaces with more heat to dissipate.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: GenTarkin on October 09, 2012, 04:25:00 PM
I think it has been the most used for BTC =)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 10, 2012, 01:14:59 AM
OS X 10.5.8
So, an OS that is now 5 years old and beyond end of life (no more security fixes). You shouldn't even be allowed online with that.

So I guess I can't run Bitcoin on my Apple IIgs?
http://www.geeks.org/~taubert/gstcp/


I've got some old Sun SPARCs and a C64 around here somewhere, so I guess they're out too.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: giszmo on October 10, 2012, 03:58:46 AM
I think it has been the most used for BTC =)

Please stay on topic!

… yeah, my first computer … we upgraded it from 64kB to 374kB :)

Guess it's time for a Ƀ-Poll ;)


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: iongchun on October 10, 2012, 05:47:12 AM
I grin when reading this thread...
We use lots of combining character in the script of our language,
finally someone else feel the pain caused by incompetent browsers/editors/OS/rendering systems...
I would supprt the Capital B with Double Vertical Stroke Overlay with hoping that
everybody cares will push their browser/editor/OS/RS/... makers to move ahead  ;D



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: helloworld on October 10, 2012, 06:03:29 AM
OS X 10.5.8

Shouldn't that say OS X.5.8?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 10, 2012, 06:44:50 AM
OS X 10.5.8

Shouldn't that say OS X.5.8?

You might think that, but no:

System Software Overview:

  System Version:   Mac OS X 10.5.8 (9L30)
  Kernel Version:   Darwin 9.8.0


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: zef on October 10, 2012, 10:55:51 PM
this one is my personal favorite for bitcoin symbol. It even looks like a coin.
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm)

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/circled_latin_capital_letter_b.png


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 11, 2012, 12:26:15 AM
this one is my personal favorite for bitcoin symbol. It even looks like a coin.
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm)

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/circled_latin_capital_letter_b.png
B⃦⃝ :p


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 11, 2012, 12:30:19 AM
this one is my personal favorite for bitcoin symbol. It even looks like a coin.
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm)

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/circled_latin_capital_letter_b.png
B⃦⃝ :p
I believe the B in circle is a compatibility character and is deprecated. B⃝  is displayed identically and should be used instead.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: irritant on October 11, 2012, 12:33:16 AM
ß, ฿, Ƀ, Б, Ъ, Ѣ   




Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 11, 2012, 01:57:07 AM
ß
It's not "Sitcoin", it's Bitcoin.

฿
Bitcoin is not a baht.

Ƀ
Okay. The only beef I have with this is that it looks nothing like the most commonly used symbol.

Б
Unusual and confusing for Russian speakers. We don't use "B" as a Bitcoin symbol, so using a Cyrillic version of it is not justified.

Ъ
There is no "B" in this symbol.

Ѣ
Okay, but does not look like a "B".


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 11, 2012, 02:24:23 AM
I honestly don't get the problem with using the Thai Baht (฿).

The resuse confusion argument holds no water given with how many times the dollar sign ($) is reused.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 11, 2012, 03:10:37 AM
I honestly don't get the problem with using the Thai Baht (฿).

The resuse confusion argument holds no water given with how many times the dollar sign ($) is reused.
Then I suppose if we use the $ sign for Bitcoin, we'll fit right in?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: teknohog on October 11, 2012, 06:11:20 AM

To me that looks like the Greek letter Beta, which is just a "b" in pronunciation.

It might also be the German Eszett, but good fonts usually make the difference clear. It is a combination of a long s (like the integral sign) and short s (our usual s), and knowing this makes it easy to spot the difference. Of course, many basic fonts use beta for both, and we can only tell from context which one is intended.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: helloworld on October 11, 2012, 06:43:27 AM
this one is my personal favorite for bitcoin symbol. It even looks like a coin.
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm)

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/circled_latin_capital_letter_b.png
B⃦⃝ :p
I believe the B in circle is a compatibility character and is deprecated. B⃝  is displayed identically and should be used instead.

A dumb question perhaps, but is the lowercase version also deprecated? ⓑ


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 11, 2012, 06:47:56 AM
this one is my personal favorite for bitcoin symbol. It even looks like a coin.
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/index.htm)

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/24b7/circled_latin_capital_letter_b.png
B⃦⃝ :p

Now here's a weird thing.  You're obviously using three code points this time and my system successfully places the circle around the second code point, but that second code point is still a box with the hex code in it.  So it supports doubling, just not with the double-stroke you're normally pushing.



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 11, 2012, 07:54:58 AM
Unicode is indeed a strange and weird beast ...

So I wandered off and found a TTF which supports U+20E6 (Code2000) and install it.  After doing so all my other fonts "miraculously" start supporting that character.  *Sigh*.

So even though Firefox doesn't use Code2000, it now displays the official sign correctly.  For those interested, the version I installed is here (http://www.fonts2u.com/code2000.font).

Edit: Firefox is still not displaying it correctly, but Code2000 (http://www.fonts2u.com/code2000.font) does make it work in Emacs and LibreOffice, which is good enough for most of my use.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Yuhfhrh on October 11, 2012, 09:48:44 AM
Ƀ


I like this one.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 11, 2012, 11:51:07 AM

To me that looks like the Greek letter Beta, which is just a "b" in pronunciation.

It might also be the German Eszett, but good fonts usually make the difference clear. It is a combination of a long s (like the integral sign) and short s (our usual s), and knowing this makes it easy to spot the difference. Of course, many basic fonts use beta for both, and we can only tell from context which one is intended.
It's a sharp s (i.e. eszett).


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 11, 2012, 03:06:18 PM
I honestly don't get the problem with using the Thai Baht (฿).

The resuse confusion argument holds no water given with how many times the dollar sign ($) is reused.
Then I suppose if we use the $ sign for Bitcoin, we'll fit right in?

Sure.  But the Baht is only used for once currency now, the dollar sign is used by 15 or so.  Seems to make more sense to give the Baht a second one than the Dollar a sixteenth.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Blind on October 11, 2012, 04:21:46 PM
I honestly don't get the problem with using the Thai Baht (฿).
The resuse confusion argument holds no water given with how many times the dollar sign ($) is reused.
Then I suppose if we use the $ sign for Bitcoin, we'll fit right in?
Sure.  But the Baht is only used for once currency now, the dollar sign is used by 15 or so.  Seems to make more sense to give the Baht a second one than the Dollar a sixteenth.

With no offece to Thais, who cares about Thailand? That country is so insignificant in global scale, that I don't think adopting their currency symbol would cause any harm or confusion, if anything, they should be proud that their symbol was chosen to represent Bitcoin. If reuse of $ in handful of other countries is not a problem for dollar, why all of a sudden it's a problem for Bitcoin? The reason I support ฿ is simply because it works right now for everyone, everywhere (web, apps, text). Hard to grasp why people are inventing and pushing for solutions that don't work for 97% of users or look like shit (hey Ⓑ), or look nothing like bitcoin (ß Б Ъ Ѣ).

Alternatively, support decentralization, choose what the fuck you want.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Foxpup on October 11, 2012, 07:34:13 PM
So I wandered off and found a TTF which supports U+20E6 (Code2000) and install it.  After doing so all my other fonts "miraculously" start supporting that character.  *Sigh*.
No they don't. It's just that whenever your computer tries to display a character that is not present in the selected font, it'll try to substitue a font that does have the character (if you actually have such a font installed). Note that a substitute font is only needed for the combining double vertical stroke, so the B will still be displayed in the original font, though the two characters might not align correctly in that case.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: FLHippy on October 11, 2012, 08:01:55 PM

With no offece to Thais, who cares about Thailand? That country is so insignificant in global scale, that I don't think adopting their currency symbol would cause any harm or confusion,


I care about Thais, they have good hookers and food. It would cause me considerable harm and confusion when paying for said food and hookers.

While I realize the following statement is a troll... and perhaps your comment was also a troll.... Allow me to change a couple words...

 Lets use the cross † as the bitcoin symbol. Who cares about christians? That religion is so insignificant on a global scale that I don't think adopting their symbol of faith would cause any harm or confusion.



Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 11, 2012, 08:14:34 PM
Lets use the cross † as the bitcoin symbol. Who cares about christians? That religion is so insignificant on a global scale that I don't think adopting their symbol of faith would cause any harm or confusion.

The Baht is a religious symbol?


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 11, 2012, 08:37:40 PM
The ignorance in this thread is appalling.

What many fail to realize is the severity of using the baht sign to represent Bitcoin. Canadian law is not Thai law, but it has to be pretty similar:
Quote
Section 74.05 of the Competition Act is a civil provision. It prohibits the sale or rent of a product at a price higher than its advertised price. The provision does not apply if the advertised price was a mistake and the error was immediately corrected.

If a court determines that a person has engaged in conduct contrary to section 74.05, it may order the person not to engage in such conduct, to publish a corrective notice and/or to pay an administrative monetary penalty of up to $750,000 in the case of a first time occurrence by an individual and $10,000,000 in the case of a first time occurrence by a corporation. For subsequent orders, the penalties increase to a maximum of $1,000,000 in the case of an individual and $15,000,000 in the case of a corporation.

The advertised prices may indeed be mistakes, as the business had not intended to sell the items at a bargain price. However, unless these errors are corrected as soon as someone complains, huge fines can result.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Atlas on October 11, 2012, 08:42:06 PM
The ignorance in this thread is appalling.

What many fail to realize is the severity of using the baht sign to represent Bitcoin. Canadian law is not Thai law, but it has to be pretty similar:
Quote
Section 74.05 of the Competition Act is a civil provision. It prohibits the sale or rent of a product at a price higher than its advertised price. The provision does not apply if the advertised price was a mistake and the error was immediately corrected.

If a court determines that a person has engaged in conduct contrary to section 74.05, it may order the person not to engage in such conduct, to publish a corrective notice and/or to pay an administrative monetary penalty of up to $750,000 in the case of a first time occurrence by an individual and $10,000,000 in the case of a first time occurrence by a corporation. For subsequent orders, the penalties increase to a maximum of $1,000,000 in the case of an individual and $15,000,000 in the case of a corporation.

The advertised prices may indeed be mistakes, as the business had not intended to sell the items at a bargain price. However, unless these errors are corrected as soon as someone complains, huge fines can result.

No, dree12, a Canadian court would not rule a BTC pricing as a Thai Baht pricing if the intent was clearly a BTC transactions or vice-versa. If your courts did, you have bigger problems.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 11, 2012, 08:49:29 PM
The ignorance in this thread is appalling.

What many fail to realize is the severity of using the baht sign to represent Bitcoin. Canadian law is not Thai law, but it has to be pretty similar:
Quote
Section 74.05 of the Competition Act is a civil provision. It prohibits the sale or rent of a product at a price higher than its advertised price. The provision does not apply if the advertised price was a mistake and the error was immediately corrected.

If a court determines that a person has engaged in conduct contrary to section 74.05, it may order the person not to engage in such conduct, to publish a corrective notice and/or to pay an administrative monetary penalty of up to $750,000 in the case of a first time occurrence by an individual and $10,000,000 in the case of a first time occurrence by a corporation. For subsequent orders, the penalties increase to a maximum of $1,000,000 in the case of an individual and $15,000,000 in the case of a corporation.

The advertised prices may indeed be mistakes, as the business had not intended to sell the items at a bargain price. However, unless these errors are corrected as soon as someone complains, huge fines can result.

No, dree12, a Canadian court would not rule a BTC pricing as a Thai Baht pricing if the intent was clearly a BTC transactions or vice-versa. If your courts did, you have bigger problems.
Like it or not, in Thailand the default meaning of the Baht sign is a Baht. If you wish to sell to Thailand, you cannot use the Baht sign for Bitcoin unless you clearly state it, and if you do, you might as well use BTC.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 11, 2012, 10:50:11 PM
What many fail to realize is the severity of using the baht sign to represent Bitcoin. Canadian law is not Thai law, but it has to be pretty similar:
Quote
Section 74.05 of the Competition Act is a civil provision. It prohibits the sale or rent of a product at a price higher than its advertised price. The provision does not apply if the advertised price was a mistake and the error was immediately corrected.

Well, then it's a good thing the Canadian dollar is finally near parity to the US dollar.  There must have been a lot of prosecutions all those years when the canadian dollar was so much cheaper....  since they both use the dollar sign and all.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 11, 2012, 11:39:55 PM
What many fail to realize is the severity of using the baht sign to represent Bitcoin. Canadian law is not Thai law, but it has to be pretty similar:
Quote
Section 74.05 of the Competition Act is a civil provision. It prohibits the sale or rent of a product at a price higher than its advertised price. The provision does not apply if the advertised price was a mistake and the error was immediately corrected.

Well, then it's a good thing the Canadian dollar is finally near parity to the US dollar.  There must have been a lot of prosecutions all those years when the canadian dollar was so much cheaper....  since they both use the dollar sign and all.
If the store is clearly in the jurisdiction of either Canada or the US, then there is no contest. Duty-free shops, shops on the border, and online shops all (no exceptions) list US $ or CA $.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 12, 2012, 02:17:48 AM
So I wandered off and found a TTF which supports U+20E6 (Code2000) and install it.  After doing so all my other fonts "miraculously" start supporting that character.  *Sigh*.
No they don't. It's just that whenever your computer tries to display a character that is not present in the selected font, it'll try to substitue a font that does have the character (if you actually have such a font installed). Note that a substitute font is only needed for the combining double vertical stroke, so the B will still be displayed in the original font, though the two characters might not align correctly in that case.

Yep, that appears to be exactly what happened (tripling the font size in a test made it easier to see).  Thanks.  That also explains why other users have the double vertical stroke further to the right, which doesn't look as good.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 12, 2012, 02:27:00 AM
If the store is clearly in the jurisdiction of either Canada or the US, then there is no contest. Duty-free shops, shops on the border, and online shops all (no exceptions) list US $ or CA $.

You mean like this online shop?

http://tinyurl.com/92nu4rm

I see dollar signs everywhere but no indication of USD vs CAD.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Morranr on October 12, 2012, 02:30:27 AM
The examples Luke-Jr posted (including the page specifically created for this he linked) don't look very good on my system either (more like a B with a single vertical line but farther to the right than the Baht symbol).  Of all of the single-character symbol options posted here, I don't see any significant reasons that ฿ or Ƀ can't be used.  I agree that the confusion with the other currency using that symbol would be minimal - I am more than used to seeing things listed with three letter codes in addition to currency symbols for clarity (e.g., $15 USD) and in fact use that myself anytime there is any possibility of confusion.  At the same time, I think the need for a single-character symbol is grossly overstated.  It's not a crisis that we don't have a standard symbol that can be used on any system - I use "BTC" to denote the currency anyway because I think it's easier.  And "BTC" will work on most any system widely used, for obvious reasons.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: dree12 on October 12, 2012, 02:33:39 AM
If the store is clearly in the jurisdiction of either Canada or the US, then there is no contest. Duty-free shops, shops on the border, and online shops all (no exceptions) list US $ or CA $.

You mean like this online shop?

http://tinyurl.com/92nu4rm

I see dollar signs everywhere but no indication of USD vs CAD.

Orbitz operates solely in the United States, therefore is clearly in the jurisdiction of the US.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 12, 2012, 04:10:44 AM
Orbitz operates solely in the United States, therefore is clearly in the jurisdiction of the US.

I'm not in the United States yet I can purchase from Orbitz. 


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Stn on October 12, 2012, 04:49:52 AM
As the owner of www.bahtcoin.com I feel obliged to drop my 5 cents into the discussion. There is no BTC sign in the website at all. And not for the reason to avoid confusions. We are here in Thailand do not use this sign in everyday life. It can be seen as a decorative or idiomatic element on billboards or signage, but in everyday life texts, price tags -- none. Or extremely rare.

Those signs are merely convenient and used in the environment where several units involved (dollar, cent, pound, shilling, guinea). Or maybe in third world countries where many currencies rotated simultaneously. Thailand is neither of them. It is has stable local currency and units are small (1 Baht ~ 1/30 US dollar) to avoid operations in fraction units (though formally it exists 1 Baht = 100 Satang). So whatever money amount written always means Thai Baht by default.

So I bless you to use whatever sign you like even BTC. No big deal. It won't be any confusion anyway. And when you use really many currencies (particulary in Bitcoin context) you may see that not all of them has distinctive signs. Even large ones like Russian Ruble, Chinese Yuan. Imagine how odd they would look in such list for instance: www.centraw.com/?page=rates  You will have to avoid using signs for the sake of uniformity. Three-letter codes are absolutely fine in all cases and well cosmopolitan.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: greyhawk on October 12, 2012, 07:51:05 AM
Lets use the cross † as the bitcoin symbol. Who cares about christians? That religion is so insignificant on a global scale that I don't think adopting their symbol of faith would cause any harm or confusion.

The Baht is a religious symbol?

Bitcoin is.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Luke-Jr on October 12, 2012, 12:06:30 PM
As the owner of www.bahtcoin.com I feel obliged to drop my 5 cents into the discussion. There is no BTC sign in the website at all.
Um, sure there is. Right there at the top of the page to the left of "bahtcoin". I don't see any other symbol for Bitcoin either.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: Hasimir on October 12, 2012, 03:17:15 PM
As the owner of www.bahtcoin.com I feel obliged to drop my 5 cents into the discussion. There is no BTC sign in the website at all.
Um, sure there is. Right there at the top of the page to the left of "bahtcoin". I don't see any other symbol for Bitcoin either.

That looks like a logo/image to me.  Even the filename, bahtcoin-logo.gif (http://www.bahtcoin.com/bahtcoin-logo.gif), indicates that.

You're being a pedant, Stn was clearly referring to the lack of any symbols adjacent to any of the numeric values for currency in baht.


Title: Re: The Thai Baht (฿) has always been the most frequently used Bitcoin symbol right?
Post by: deadserious on October 12, 2012, 04:12:59 PM
The Baht is a religious symbol?
Bitcoin is.

Touché