Bitcoin Forum

I should have finished pulling out.

What the hell happened?

Was GLBSE the biggest ponzi scheme of all?

I am assuming no one has any word yet?

Please stop using ponzi word if you dont know what it means. And really, people are just staring to convinced that nefiro is a scam after all, what if one day it locks out all our fund.

After all, stop panic (for a moment). but he should have told us this like 1 or 2 weeks ago with those fancy popups alert. (What i am worried of is it being hacked now)

wtf, we will update our users on saturday??
Why not tell us now what is going on  :-\

Each equity should have its own separate website where users can buy and sell the security.

WTF. No statement, just going offline.

And another time they show their lack of professionalism.

Oh Yippie...I don't think it will be anything too serious, but I guess we'll find out in two days...

^^ This.  We should probably not speculate to much on what is going on because it will only hurt the image of investing in the btc IMHO.  There could be a perfectly reasonable answer for this such as being hacked (not that being hacked is good but at least that isn't as bad as the operator running away with our btc).  So I suggest we restrain ourselves for right now.

Yes, of course. I don't panic and IMO nobody should.

What already pisses me of is that they are going offline with no statement.

2 days. Well, lets start the FUD.

Maybe they are implementing an update, and had to shut the site down to do the switch over and check for bugs? (Although, I am not sure why they would need two full days to do that?)

I was in the process of logging in when I got the cloudflare "site is down" notice.  A couple minutes later it shows the offline/Saturday notice.


If you've got browser tabs with your account holdings still open, take screen shots.  And hang on to any old account history csv's - just in case.

I don't know anything about this. I am extremely irritated with Nefario.

I guess I'm just going to sit back and watch as everyone sharpens the pitchforks.

Can you contact him and give an update?
I assume you have his mobile number?

They might be migrating servers, and I hope its just updates. Don't know how much more bitcoin can endure lol.

You might be surprised...

Hmm, reasonable expanaition: Problem with the hoster that required immediate hoster change.

He'll likely announce on Saturday he was hacked after he checks into a nice hotel in Belize tomorrow.

If you guys think you're getting your assets back I'd say the odds are low but not impossible.

In any case, even if he brings it back the panic selling will be epic and damage the stocks to the point of uselessness.

https://i.imgur.com/hOLm2.gif (http://imgur.com/hOLm2)

 Nefario is probably negotiating a plea arrangement with the SEC.

All of these recents scams and fuck-ups are making Bitcoin look like a complete joke. Is there even one single reliable Bitcoin business/service/website out there?


Its a UK company, not a US one, the SEC have nothing to do with them & don't regulate them.

They've made updates before. There is no reason for them not to state that very fact.

Everything that's been happening with GLBSE lately stinks of law intervention. Nefario would in no way willingly act like this. I hope he's submitting because he knows it will be better for all of us this way.


That's not a good sign. ???

This is the second reference to the SEC that i've seen between the two GLBSE threads going on right now.  Does someone have any credible information on this?  If not, lets hold the FUD so when things come back online we don't have a massive value crash on the market.  Thanks.

Remember he only said he'd update the situation on Saturday, not put the site back on line.

That doesn't mean anything, he didn't say he wouldn't put it back online either.

Yes there is credible info. If you were on IRC you would know. I'm not reposting it here.

Very true, someone call the S.E.C guy and ask him. I did it last time and got blasted for it, it's someone else's turn lol

Kinda at work right now.  They block IRC....  I understand not wanting to post it here though.

Now don't take this the wrong way, but I would seriously advice all of you to panic right about now.

But he didn't say he would, there's no return of service announcement, the only thing confirmed is an announcement, so don't bank on restoration of service. That does mean something.

Panic as in we've lost all our BTC or panic as in we should be expecting our uncle SEC to knock on our door?

Yes, the SEC is looking into a variety of issues surrounding bitcoin. And yes, he is no longer interested in taking hysterical phone calls from any of us. The next round of calls will be outgoing from them and will include subpoenas for depositions. This thing is starting to look very, very ugly.

Why do people keep mentioning the SEC?

The S.E.C regulate in the US only.

GLBSE is a registered company in the UK (based in Lancashire IIRC), they are regulated by the UK FSA (well, are subject to regulation by them).

I think people keep saying SEC because of information coming from IRC.  Also as an American I am fully aware of how our government has no problem in applying muscle towards other countries to get them to do what we want and the driving force behind that would be the SEC.

Surely it would be the FSA not the SEC - it's the FSA he was trying to get GLBSE regulated with.

It's not gonna be a hosting issue - if so they could just say so.  The refusal to give any indication of the reason is a pretty clear indication that they're having to get lawyered up before giving any information - meaning some regulatory body (e.g. the FSA) or LE is on their case.

Think I'd actually be more confident about getting funds back if they HAD been hacked.

Companies, especially registered legit companies, that are based elsewhere, but offer investment opportunities in the US are indeed subject to SEC regulation.

This has been the 800 pound gorilla for all investments bitcoinesque, and it appears that perhaps we have now come of age and are going to have to look at playing lawlessly within the rules.

At least not one satoshi from me touched GLBSE never.

I think this has to do with the new crowdfunding bill and how they are going to regulate it.

If the S.E.C is looking so is every other U.S investigation service that has acronyms lol

Or don't play at all...

Atlas is not gonna like that.

Lets all move to litecoinglobal :)
The service is in beta but it looks already pretty good and admin is committed to his site.

Welcome to the club :(

Seems the only safe thing to use your BTC for is Silk Road :o

Yes this club is growing fast, at least it says our Bitcoins are safe I don't if I should be worried or calm. Probably going to get my pitch fork out soon.

I heard GLBSE was funded with Nazi gold from WWII.

WTF.

Lack of explanation implies lawyers got involved. Wait and see what happens.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Saturday should be an interesting day.

Perhaps you guys should buy some bitcoin, to make sure you get your bitcoins back.

Who controls the funds that were transferred to GLBSE? Nefario alone? (I genuinely don't know how GLBSE works.)

Holy bitcoin !

I just sold everything yesterday night and withdrew all my coins; I feel lucky for once.

Pfffffffffftch. How about no.

I have some of it, though Nefario has most of it.

Unfortunately, in my experience, you're right. Whenever something or someone goes 100% quiet it means they're involved with lawyers/lawsuits/courts/etc

Agreed, I'm putting my money on a Lawsuit, with a small side bet on regulatory compliance issues.

My hope is that it involves the new GLBSE 3.0 upgrade or something else that has no lasting impact.

I JUST put my largest deposit so far in and was buying shares when it went down, but I have assurance that my money is safe, and I'm willing to let it sit for a couple days.

I do think that this is far too limited a communication over a 2 days period, but there are reasons it might be needed.

I'm heading to the beach on Saturday, so I'll do some extra relaxing for all of you who have your panties in a knot.

Haha, Goat is suing Nefario. (Just kidding)

>30% probability

Figures that I find the cult of the subgenius near BitCoin. Eris is certainly the right deity.

Bad news bears... I hope it's nothing serious.

is it sb finding nefario phone no?
billing-phone: +44.7577006897
Source:http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=whois&host=glbse.com

Agreed. If it was migrating servers or something like it, he would have put it on there and would even have announced it before hand. The fact that he doesnt means he doesnt want to talk about the real reason yet. A SEC or criminal investigation seems like a good bet, and also matches with the fact Nefario hasnt been communicating for quite some time now.

Anyone have an idea how much money we are talking about here? The combined asset value?

Given the announcement I would say that you are wasting your time bothering his phone.

He is not incommunicado, he is reticent.

of course it is as serious as cannot be given a updates right now.

150k BTC asset value or so, I imagine most peeps didn't keep much of a BTC balance on GLBSE.  Probably less then 20k BTC on the exchange.

If you just sum the market cap cap of the different assets >100.000 BTC.

http://www.stochastically.com/

I feel sorry for anyone who didn't pull out after learning that the SEC guy knew something would be happening with GLBSE.

Watching.

I guess I am gloating, but oh well.  GLBSE never had any appeal to me from any end of the spectrum and I've never paid much attention to it.  Although I considered GLBSE to be an attack target on Bitcoin, I had nothing much against it other than that.  It was sort of a nursery for sprouting entries on the scam accusations board here, and some of them are fun to read.

Probably belongs in speculation, but I know that from my perspective fear of legal attacks against services led me to do something approaching panic buying when I got into things.  It'll be interesting to see if something as big as GLBSE being bowled over by the long arm of the law will induce such buying.

Yea - I only held ASICMINER and was in the process of transferring my shares to be held in the company's name! But that process isn't immediate - so it isn't done yet. But no BTC was being held at GLBSE. This stuff is getting crazy!

Damn this is kind of scary...

Crazy!

Litecoins are much more mellow 8)

I have talked to James.
I can give you guys a small unofficial update.
James can't reveal any details until the official statement, but he says the coins are fine and that there has been no hack or bug.

He also hinted upon legal issues, which leads me to believe that the reason GLBSE was taken down was due to legal issues probably SEC or something similar.
//DeaDTerra

Awesome...

I want to state that, it's my impression and is not necessarily true so take it with a big pile of salt.
//DeaDTerra

I think a whitelabel site would be a great idea.  git clone, bootstrap and configure, and go from there.  Account management would be tough unless there was federation, but underwriters could choose with whom they would federate for quick transfers.  If they don't trust or even like you, you don't get to participate in the StarCoin Alliance.

You could rapidly define and ensure a minimum level of security including cold wallets, openid or certificate based auth, a simple accounting backend, etc. by making them out of the box.

Mind starting a thread on features and prioritizing functionality into "can't do without", "important to have", and "wouldn't it be nice?"

Thanks for the update! This is looking very bad though. This could take many months to solve.

Bitcoin should be worth at least 100$ each on entertainment value alone...

The lack of even a cursory explanation is worrying.

On a semi-related note, the US crowd-funding bill sounds like a nice change for small startups that want to accept US investors: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17535660

People need to calm down geeze lol

Lucky for me, 60% of my 1.5 BTC in GLBSE was tied up in BDT.

This makes me worried, but I think that Nefario will be able to handle it well.

From the site:

GLBSE is offline

For those worried about their bitcoin, please calm yourselves there has been no hack and your coins are safe and all accounted for.

I apologize for the lack of notice and the downtime, but there isn't much choice. We will update our users on Saturday.

This is as entertaining as watching your severed limbs to squirt blood.

The SEC or some of entity probably cracked down or threatened to.
Besides the fact that they have been randomly delisting stocks with no notice to shareholders, there are people hunting pirate right now and a bunch of other scams & bs that GLBSE was very laisse faire about.  Technically that makes them and their owners complicit in fraud.
 
However my feeling is that they weren't shut down per se, merely advised to shutdown, probably by their attorney, until a determination of legality could be made and a course of action could be taken.

Protip guys, don't start a business like this without first hiring a lawyer who specializes in finance & securities law, period.

At the moment they probably have a forward going safe harbor under the jobs act.  However prior to the enactment of that they are very likely to be found as having operated a broker/dealer without a license.  Unfortunately that's the type of thing that prevents you from ever getting one.

That would be super cool and fantastically easier to manage from my point of view...or at least organized a bit better.


Easier said than done. Many people have quite a bit of money tied up here, and even though the page states not to worry about their coins there's still quite a bit of uncertainty that has a lot of people second guessing themselves. Historically, if someone says "Don't Panic" it's usually the time when panicking is a good option.

Sigh.. I knew I should have sold my assets this week  :'(

I missed that -- does anybody have a link for it?

I don't have time to do product management on something like this, but could contribute code and advice.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112438.0

Good points.

Broker/Dealer combined = bad, bad, bad.   Bad.  

Any risk to GLBSE or any similarly structured securities operation is a risk possibly equating to a complete loss.


Research Open Transactions for securities ownership/trading.  Securities ownership is P2P, so ownership is easily proven, and the trading is mediated by the OT servers.  Counter-party risk remains, but removes mediator risk to a large extent.

No, you should just shut up and get lost, shillboy.

Or do I need to pull up all the shit you were flinging at the actual exchange to defend the scam exchange?

Buy some shame, will you.


Same goes for you.

In other words, don't start a business like this without first being a millionaire, or having one to back you up. (it won't stop on "hiring a lawyer")

I wonder if he will live up to his name.  I'm not sure that anyone would, back in the dawn of Bitcoin time, choose 'nefarious' as a moniker unless the concept was floating around in his mind at some level.  MNW had the good sense to change his bitcointalk.org (formerly part of bitcoin.org) when he decided to try to play Mr. Legitimate.

No, lawyers getting involved implies lack of comments. Lack of comments implies nothing. Implications aren't two way, you know.


Aggregate value of all GLBSE assets was in the 50k range. It's conceivable 2-5k of that was in cash balances.


That is exactly true, and exactly the reason MPEx ate everyone's lunch.

Some people are into that.

Christ that Mpex site looks like the last place I'd send a bitcoin. If you're here slagging the competition it rings even more true.

Keep sending them by looks and soon enough you won't have any left and we won't have to hear from you ever again.

Tried and tested by so many before....

I've reviewed your posts, you are definitely not worth doing business with , but carry on. Iggy button on.

Although I'm really not fan of the PR person MPEx chose, MPEx is a perfectly OK exchange. The fact it issues such great companies as SatoshiDice or BitVPS and is the only one to offer options is a major plus too.

This is pretty much true.  People wrongly perceive the barriers to entry into the Bitcoin financial services market as being low - they pretty much believe that all they need to be successful is an idea and a website.  Those who enter the market believing that are likely to fail quite spectacularly.

Captain Hindsight says "It's stunning to me that people would entrust money to aliases such as Pirateat40 and Nefario"

Please stop promoting your service in of threads about competitors' services. It is off topic and unprofessional.  

Hope GLBSE can pull through this OK.  I pulled my coins out last week, fearing the GLBSE recession continuing.  Hooray for dumb luck.  I hope all investors are able to get their funds out.

I think GLBSE are back in business very soon.

Is that a gut feeling, or do you have some info that we don't?

Yep, hopefully!

To me it feels more like an update screw up requiring fixing or SEC wanting to clawback funds from people who profited from Pirate's scheme.

If anyone receives any info, I'm keeping this thread updated:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115467.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115467.0)

Excellent thread, good work :)

Since IF GLBSE ever comes back online it seems most likely that a panic selling will happen (even more than the BTC price after the Gox hack), I would guess that we are already royally screwed anyway.
Oh well, it's just money.

How a  I screwed if people are panic-selling assets into my hands?

I don't think so, if its only a botched update, why should people freak out and start panic selling?

I appreciate the balls' hardness, but I've been there and done that (bought many BTC at 20$ after the peak/hack and gone down to the bottom with the ship). This time I am tempted to jump in a lifeboat a.s.a.p.

I hope really they clear the orderbook before going online again. I would hate it to buy right into a panic.

And why wouldn't it just be announced? "Hey guys, had some issues with an update, should be online in a day or so - we'll keep you posted". Then start a thread here explaining things, and all is fine. That goes for server issues, hosting issues, pretty much anything.  Even if it turns out to be a cat walking on the keyboard, if it's not some kind of legal issue this is hugely unprofessional.

Everyone light a candle for GLBSE.  Keep the faith.

https://i.imgur.com/1bLYo.jpg

If all the GLBSE coins are safe as stated and the shares on there continue making a profit then a panic sell shouldn't very last long or be very deep.

If there is a panic sell, and the shares are to be profitable still, then there is a big opportunity to buy low.

This was one of the reasons why I closed my asset.  I did not want to be holding funds and no way to pay back.  I just hope the people that got their funds back a few days ago took them out of GLBSE.

Well since I'm US Based and verified with GLBSE, I'll notify the board if charges come down for unregulated security trading against me.
I'm a very very small fry, but there is a small chance maybe 1%.

I have a feeling this might be a clawback from Pirate Ponzi.

If the most expect this, they should short as soon they can in order to buy back at the bottom, so this means a big crash.

all existing orders should be canceled before the site comes back up.

*Rant mode ON*

Man, I'm starting to get sick of that shit, seriously. How are you supposed to invest when everything is made to create insecurity? I've put money in pirate, I knew it was somewhat high-risk, and I assume that. But come on, now, you can't even put money into low-risk assets. Assets get delisted at a click of a button, scam accusations everywhere and now, "oh hi, breaking news, GLBSE is offline".

Random asshole:  "Oh, you should have took your money out earlier".

How am I supposed to do that? There's no f*****g volume, there's no buyer except at 0.000000001 BTC because of all the shit. Why somebody whould buy an asset when you have the choice between:
-A website that make instant decisions without any warning (delisting, closing, whatever)
-Another who ask 350$ for registration with more porn than assets on it.

The only investment that was profitable in the last 10 months was buying BTC and sitting on it. What a wonderful way to grow an economy, don't you think?

Anyway, I'm done investing in others projects. I'll build my own.

according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Mozambique)..

today is "Day of Peace and Reconciliation" (according to some random african country)

+10

That was the best post I've read today, totally agree.

This should be the least of our worries.

Hoarding is a lot easier and safer, and I've got no complaints about how it's working out.

If you've got something of value to trade for BTC, please go to town on your project.  If you just think you are owed a living on the basis of having some BTC to deploy, I personally have little sympathy for ya.  If you've relinquished control of Bitcoin to someone else in this community and they didn't give it back, well, cry me a river.  Eventually people will figure out how dumb that is.  I hope.

+1  ;)

(we don't want the crazies)

What I do like about litecoinglobal is that the asset operators has up-to-date information on their asset holders.  If an exchange shuts down (for any period of time) then the operator can list their asset on another exchange if necessary.

But it looks like Open Transactions (https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki) is the future.

Problem is all the damage they cause by being dumb. Where are all those people who were mocking critics of Pirateat40? How about some public apologies showing contrition and volunteering time and BTC to attempt to minimize the negative effects? Oh that's right they are mostly full of hot air and manure.

Hey no need to call me names.... j/k  ;D

Anyone else expect to get Codes this weekend?

Or GLBSE moving shop to China and reopening for business.

AFAIK TangibleCryptography, the registered LLC which pays taxes, is doing just fine.
When Nefario delisted Goat's assets, I ran away really quickly. I guess so.

There are no "low-risk assets".  Every single Bitcoin service which takes user funds for investment or exchange is at risk of being shut down or having their cash flow interrupted due to regulatory issues or the domino effect of other services collapsing.  People need to stop pretending they don't know that.  

Every single time you leave your BTC or your local currency on a BTC service you are doing so knowing that recovering your funds will be difficult and/or costly in the event that the service fails due to incompetence or external factors.  What Bitcoin business so far has failed due to factors which could not have been foreseen?

I expect GLBSE v.3 being rolled out OR current assets to be moved to a black market (GLBSE will turn to regulated market) OR a lengthy wait as the SEC and FSA works on clawing back funds from people who profited from BS&T's passthrough. Because with financial scams like Pirate's ponzi, that's what they tend to do. Clawbacks.

To add a little to the FUD:
It is interesting to observe who else is not commenting on the issue. I'm missing some well known forum trolls members.

Makes you think?
;)

usagi drank him/herself into a stupor earlier today after the closedown. It's in one of her/his million threads.

Hoarding will destroy the value of Bitcoin... assume for a second that everybody just hoards their coins... then there is really no use for Bitcoin and therefore no value

We need an economy to accept Bitcoin for it to retain/gain value

I am really surprised with all the sh*t that's been going on lately that BTC is still valued above $12

i guess we have all the pot smokers on Silk Road to thank for that

While it's true that there's usually an attempt to claw back large payments (it's usually not cost effective to pursue claw back of smaller ones), that's not usually a rapid process.  Nor would that alone require GLBSE going offline - they'd need information from Nefario about who was operating the PPTs, how much was traded through them and who received payments from them, but that wouldn't require taking GLBSE offline.

I agree with others that the lack of advance notice and the vagueness of the announcement suggests legal issues.  I suspect that if GLBSE comes back online in the near future, those legal issues will be reflected in how it operates from now on and that people probably aren't going to like any changes Nefario makes to keep the service operating.


usagi investing in or endorsing any product is a kiss of death.  One could probably make a decent return by doing the exact opposite of what usagi is doing/promoting.

Yea, I witnessed the "breakdown" on IRC. You're probably right: The whole bunch is wasted atm. One side for throwing away their "life savings", the other side all partying and swag and shit. On a boat.

Probably goes something like this: http://vimeo.com/18848658

Damn straight. Real world economies would have a little less trouble these days if the ultra-wealthy of the world actually moved that money around rather than sit on it.

I hate to say it, but you're probably right. The reason I went to GLBSE in the first place was not only for it's attractiveness, ease of use (compared to other exchanges), and popularity, but also because you could work on your business / IPO without the red tape found under normal, real world, government regulated exchanges. To bring in the FSA and UK laws means that, sure, there won't be any more scams (or at least harder to spot), but there would be increased fees and a lot more time and BS to wade through.

Makes me wonder if it's a better option to drop $350 and work with MPEx or figure out some feasible way to work with LitecoinGlobal....

Investing does actually have economic benefits..assuming we're talking long term investments versus day trading the shit out of a stock. Just like here in the community and under our own exchanges, investing allows the community to support various business ventures, which in turn helps to expand and promote not only the business, but bitcoin as well.

There is cryptostocks as well.

Well let's face it historically panicking has never quicken fixing the problem now has it? James is pretty well known and isn't going anywhere with anyone's bitcoins.

Disagree.  In order to hoard you need to obtain them in the first place.  Mine, buy, or trade something of value.

Next, anyone who hoards is still going to wish to (or need to) adjust their position from time to time.

Sufficient number of people hoarding will dry up supply changing the price-point (upward.)

I have a fair amount of Bitcoin.  Are you saying that for the good of the solution I should blow them all tonight on some stupid gambling site or getting people to diddle themselves while I watch on a web-cam?  Or that I should trust them to the tender mercies of some named something like 'pirate' or 'nefarious'?  Sorry...I'll rely on other suckers to do those honors.  I'll tuck my BTC into bed and wake them up when I have a compelling reason to do so.

If you are not putting your bitcoins up for sale (for USD, shoes, a wank) then your bitcoins have no value.  If no one is willing to use bitcoins to purchase things, then no one will offer to take them for their other assets.  If no one wants bitcoins then they are worthless.

Either people will profit highly on the panic sell if GLBSE reopens, or they'll lose invested BTC if it's shut down completely.  

I dodged a bullet with pirate, saw through MNW, but didnt see this coming.

Hoarding beats giving away money to scammers and idiots that call themselves CEOs. If bitcoin is dependent on such schemes its doomed. But its not. Bitcoin is horrible as an investment vehicle (other than keeping it your wallet), but it derives its value from its function as a trade instrument.  Trade, not investment. Use it as such, just use it buy stuff,  buy services. Replenish your coins if you want,  keep the rest "invested" in your wallet.  It will do just fine.


Indeed we do. We need more trade, we need less ponzi's and "financial services" nonsense that promise 100% or 1000% APR.
The whole point of bitcoin is cutting out the need for such "services". The whole point of bitcoin is that you shouldnt need interest rates to protect your wealth. Seems like you missed that, and tried to make value out of thin air,  have your bitcoins multiply themselves magically as if it were fiat; of course that will fail.

That's a chance I take with this speculation.  I continue to feel that the most likely outcome is total loss.  The outside chance that Bitcoin (rev-1 or a close enough derivative (e.g., uses forked blockchain)) will 'go'.  If it does it will probably go ballistic and well exceed what I would term a 'retirement event.'

I'm not so sold on open transactions.  There's no rules to what can be traded.  There needs to be some reasonably thought out rules or it'll just be more of the same.  Even seemingly "open transactions" like the postal service had to establish rules for the content of their mail.  (transactions)  The ease with which evil proliferates in an anonymous open system can be astounding.

(please correct me if any of my impressions of how open transactions would actually function are incorrect, I admittedly have not yet finished researching it.)

Cheers.

I cashed out of GLBSE a long time ago. It seems my instincts (and the push I was given) were right once again.

I've survived bad investments, pirate and other things with a nice profit. GLBSE might be another near miss. :)

I have not looked too much into it either as I have no time right now, but for what I know contracts cannot be changed by vote.  A problem would be the contracts not being fulfilled, but as can be seen on centralized exchanges contracts are not being followed all the time.  A surety, arbitration, and credit rating markets would be needed to back up any open transaction assets.

I agree 100% on your last sentence, but would extend that to the currently operating exchanges as well.  In a way, the exchanges (even if they eventually become a frontend for open transactions) will always act as a sort of filter for keeping the junk out.  At least they should.  I'm still working on the terms for LTC-GLOBAL, but there will be significant restrictions in place to keep funds from cross-investing in each other and bringing down the entire exchange economy.  Would love to discuss other possible restrictions that (a) do not hamper legitimate companies trying to crowdfund and (b) do impede fraud or inadvertent destruction of investor value.  (please post suggestions to the LTC-GLOBAL thread tho: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101694.0)

Thankfully, all my Goat assets were delisted last week.  So I didn't lose anything.  Except my claim number.

Alright, where's the successor of GLBSE?

If you weren't mockingly throwing around the term Team Ponzi, then you are probably safe from undue criticism.

Hopefully being smothered in the cradle before public release.

Cryptostocks

I sold 2 assets on GLBSE to OBSI and Started a New One on Cryptostocks.

You drunk the cool-aid and paid the price.  So sad.


I don't.  PM's, property, and Bitcoin all appeal to me because they lack counter-party risk.

About the only thing I do with BTC is donate them to things I think are worthwhile.  I believe that to be more efficient at furthering the projects in our world that I believe have value.  As long as our 'official' currency solutions are for all intents and purposes supperior for the things I need a currency for, I'll probably be using that.  Part of my Bitcoin speculation is because I don't know that 'official' solutions will continue to perform to my satisfaction.

I've been contemplating taking the LTC-GLOBAL code and putting up a bitcoin version.  I have a few major features I'd like to finish first.  (1 week of dev work?)  Swapping out some text, the css, the litecoind for a bitcoind, and the header/footer would be easy.

Another option I've been thinking about is finishing up the major features, then putting up the code for sale along with a single-use (restricted to bitcoin) license. 

I suspect the shareholders of LTC-GLOBAL would be happy with either option.  Both would be a nice payday for shareholders.

That would be awesome...do it! :D

So when this market tanks what's his liability on a lawsuit under UK law I wonder.

Glad I got most of mine out when Nefarious decided to black list that goat fella.

If it tanks due to regulatory compliance measures, then none.  A contract based on him not complying with the law wouldn't be enforceable.

That's interesting .. because compliance ordered by a foreign government.. would that stand up.

Has Nefario even made a statement at all???

You will have the same issues as glbse eventually. a wise man once said doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is silly :D

Oh right I would rather have them be hacked and let us know than to just run off. What's the difference?

Here send me some bitcoins and I'll do the second option to you since it is less painful.

The way I see it is that if they can't tell you why they went offline now, what makes you think they will tell you on Saturday.

Why? Is it because you hold a large share in GLBSE? Or just generally irritated?

Even if GLBSE got closed down as a result of investigations initiated by US authorities, it doesn't mean they weren't breaking UK law in respect of unregistered securities.  It's highly possible that the existence of GLBSE could be brought to the attention of the UK's FSA and that the FSA would take it from there without US law being involved at all.

I have no idea whether US law prevents unregistered securities being offered to US residents by foreign operators.  Maybe there is some technicality which allows them to go after off-shore, unregulated exchanges even if those exchanges are legal in their local jurisdiction in the same way that they were able to go after the online poker services which were allowing US players on the technicality of transferring funds through US financial services for the purpose of online poker playing.

There are so many things affecting the value of Bitcoin "investments" at the moment that it would not be easy to establish Nefario's role in any decline in value of assets listed on GLBSE.  You'd be looking at an expensive legal case, assuming that it wasn't dismissed out of hand (unlike the US, you can't "sue anyone for anything" in Commonwealth countries and lawyers themselves get sanctioned for bringing frivolous cases before the courts).

Owning a large part of glbse and being kept in the dark could have something to do with it  ;)

I'm not convinced of that.  There are a lot of differences in approach.  And ultimately even if we fail, by design we're not leaving our users hanging.  Asset issuers will have everything they need to transition to whatever's next.

A general standard across cryptocurrency denominated exchanges should be implemented so that in case one exchange falls, securities can migrate to other exchanges.

+1024

The problem is when you have a situation like this one where an exchange lists so many toxic assets that no-one in their right mind would want them migrated to their own exchange.

Ha!  I know!  Bitcoin needs a 'fed' to unload the toxic assets of favored buddy's failing businesses onto.

+1 amen to that. lol  ;)

There should be contractual standards as well, and of course an exchange operator has the right of refusal.  For example, an OBSI security may not be transferable but a GIGAMINING or COGNITIVE might be.  This might even increase the trading of more reputable securities.

I find the "How am I ever going to offload my toxic securities onto someone else now that GLBSE is down" laments somewhat amusing.


I think it's vital that operators actually do this instead of accepting just about anything because it brings in money.  They also need to be willing to suspend trading in particular securities far more than they have in the past.

Don't get me wrong, there's a market for toxic assets, but they have the ability to compromise the integrity of an exchange as a whole and they should be avoided by exchanges which want to build a reputation for high quality, well vetted offerings.  It's not enough to simply exclude illegal stuff if you're going to continue allowing things like usagi's house of cards to trade after new information reveals its recursive nature.

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/South-Park-07.jpg

"Hey, relax guy.  Trust me."

my thoughts exactly

There's no need for anyone to have brought GLBSE to the attention of the FSA - nefario was actually trying to get it registered with them.  One pretty reasonable theory on what's happening gos like this:

Nefario: Hi FSA, I'd like to register my company GLBSE as a financial services provider.
FSA: Do you provide services that are required to be registered with us?
Nefario: Yes
FSA: Then please submit your application.  Oh - and if you're already providing such services then you need to stop until we approve or decline your application to register.

The application/approval process typically takes a few months.

He can't register with the FSA unless he provides services that they register.  And if he DOES provide services that should be registered with them, then he shouldn't be providing such services without being registered.

Obviously if GLBSE ends up registered with the FSA then it would have to comply with AML/KYC requirements - so if the announcement on Saturday mentions FSA registration everyone should start getting their photo id, proof of address etc ready if they want to get back access to their assets.

Note: I'm in no way saying the GLBSE WILL end up FSA regulated.  Nor is the above the only credible scenario for what's happening - just the most likely in my view.

FSA: Crowdfunding (http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumerinformation/product_news/saving_investments/crowdfunding)

Crowdfunding: Staying on the right side of the FSA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFta4rYzpYc&feature=relmfu)

lol. calm down people :D

Too centralized.  Try distributed bonds (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92421.0).

Or even better, a merge-mined data timestamping service...  no blockchain bloat, as it is just another merkle branch in the merged-mining merkle tree (of which a single merkle root is then published in each block's coinbase).

Another scenario:

Limiting your mind to a decentralized, distributed currency is thinking too small.

Think decentralized, distributed financial system.  Bitcoin is just the base for something bigger.

I dont know why he woudnt just cut ties with glbse and just setup a new site without the baggage in that case.

Technically, the barriers should be as low as that, assuming your idea and website are good enough. But no! Thanks to unaffordable licenses and kilometric, ambiguous and incomprehensible regulations that no human being can possibly follow strictly, yeah, your barriers of entry get really high.

I appreciate your consideration of such things and it seems to me like something worth expending significant effort towards.  I'm not confident that I can predict what the results of such efforts might be (if the solutions work) but it's always good to have options in my opinion.

This is not a problem in itself, but the economy would not grow if everyone acted like you, so the attitude you prescribe is mildly parasitic. There is nothing wrong with it, but you shouldn't act as if you are doing something right and the people who use GLBSE are somewhat stupid. Shut up and enjoy your hoarding while we create value.


Exactly...


There are many proposed solutions to decentralizing this specific part of our financial structure, but we won't get there in a day. It's actually somewhat fortunate that there are enough people who dare to get their hands dirty only to fail. We are currently in the phase of identifying problems and brainstorming. I'm convinced that an "efficient" decentralized stock exchange is very doable, but still think we need an integrated solution to at least help with trust.


Crypto::Stocks seemed nice. It's basically the same thing, so I guess this time we need more assurances and a general policy explanation from the owner. More importantly, an automatic fallback mechanism if the exchange goes down.


I LOL'd.

Here's why you are wrong: The whole economy can run off 1 Bitcoin. That 1 Bitcoin or more can be invested and used as much as you like. The persons holding more are holding back nobody.

Here's why you are wrong: If one person holds for example 20 million BTC and the rest of the economy is based on the remaining million, there's always the threat looming that all your money might be devalued 20 times in an instant once this person decides to get out.

If there are only 1001 coins, everyone holds fractions of this 1 and I hold 1000 (not disclosing anything about my plans what to do with these 1000 coins) would this hold back people from trusting this currency or not?

It makes sense, but it is not necessarily true, otherwise ppl would be scared to buy or own gold since most of it is owned by a few central banks who can dump it at any time. Of course, gold may be different than our funny internet money.

I disagree for a number of reasons (and agree to a certain extent as well to be fair.)

a) Bitcoin as a solution is dis-similar to pretty much all other modern solutions.  It is not inflationary on a theoretical level and thus does not require that an economy grows exponentially in order for the economy to perpetuate itself.  So, a lot of the standard economic theories about capital do not necessarily apply in the same way.

b) In addition to continued technical development, the main thing which will assist Bitcoin (or more generally p2p crypto-accounting solutions) is that it is seen as a reliable and useful utility.  People getting constantly ripped of in the vastly underdeveloped and (imo) malformed and downright ugly economy which currently exists is not at all helpful.

c) As I alluded to, Bitcoin is currently a solution in search of a problem at this point and in my locale since the USD, credit, and Paypal work admirably for a lot of us (my not being in debt.)  I feel it more important to develop a robust and scalable solution, not necessarily the 'biggest at any cost' at this point in time, and I think that doing so has the best chance of serving humanity well in the end.  If 'the end' never comes, that's fine with me since we've got it pretty damn good as things stand (again, in my locale.)

d) When the chips were down and I feared for the future of the solution, I spent a fair amount of USD mopping up some of the excess supply.  Long before the trough I had called $1.80/BTC as a dangerous level.  The primary driver for this action was probably not purely altruistic, but that was something of a factor.  So as far as I'm concerned I took a big chance and if I want to rest on my laurels (and my BTC) rather than hand it over to other people I have no shame in doing just that.  Besides, limiting supply (by hoarding) is probably the biggest factor in increasing the fiat/BTC ratio (for whatever good that is.)

Now I will agree the the 'mildly parasitic' comment, but the host is the developers of the solution...not the hoards of scam artists and computer criminals who want to separate me from my wealth which is how I could characterize the the economic activity at this juncture.

I and relatively few other people spoke up with concerns about the Bitcoin Foundation before it was created and during the request-for-comments phase.  None-the-less, I will probably be a direct contributor when I've satisfied myself that the concerns are being addressed.  I believe that this will have infinately more positive effect on the solution than jacking off to a web cam or pissing my net worth away on a gambling site which is designed to make someone else money.

While this is true, Nefario should have been well aware of the need to close down GLBSE while approval was pending - such a shutdown should have been planned and advertised well in advance, if only so that user funds weren't inaccessible for however long the approval process takes and so that users weren't at risk of being adversely affected by either acceptance or rejection of GLBSE's application.

Whatever's going on, it seems to be something which Nefario did not anticipate.  Once we know the circumstances behind the shut-down, we'll be better placed to evaluate whether it's something he should have foreseen and prepared for.

My assumption was that closing down some of the Pirate pass-throughs was part of his preparation for FSA approval.  Where the work is going to come is in meeting the due diligence requirements on every security on there: from what I can see the vast majority of stuff on there can't be handled by anyone who's FSA approved anyway.

And of course the KYC/AML type requirements could take a lot of effort to comply with.  I can just imagine the backlash here if it turns out anyone who just wants to withdraw from GLBSE will still have to prove their identity first (as GLBSE was running as a for-profit service AND was taking deposits the requirements are pretty tight).

This is such a ridiculous mindfuck that it's actually the most plausible theory I've heard so far. At least it fits my expectations on how authorities work. No helicopters and Men in Black needed.

I was just re-reading Nefario's posts from last week and it looks like the only immediate registration happening at this point in time is registration as a company.  Presumably not even that will be happening until theymos divests his shares as theymos is unwilling to be named on any company documents.  Whatever longer term plans Nefario has for GLBSE being regulated seem unlikely to move forward while theymos is still holding a significant parcel of shares.

Well, I think you would agree that it has to grow to a degree, or at least it would be good if that happens. For instance, I think SR is contributing a lot to the long term viability of the currency as a store of value (the aspect of Bitcoin I think you are mostly interested in). Even if it's only for a time, it helps bootstrap confidence until a critical limit is reached.


What I meant is, the path to formation comprises malformation. I'm as sorry as you that things developed this way, and it would be much much better if they didn't, but I think all this is part of the thinking process. It's hard to predict the future. As a result of all this, I'm confident that we will have more and more functional ways to do business freely and it will be an overall win. However hard we try, we won't be able to come up with a working thing without going through these phases.

I lost coins in a wide variety of transactions. Hell, even bitvapes.com has failed to deliver my items. It's an ethical dilemma. On one hand, you could be giving money to an unethical person, thereby incentivizing unethical behaviour. On the other hand, I think you have the duty to give a chance to people who try.

I would have ten times the coins I have now if I had just hoarded. Maybe this is just me refusing to believe I made a mistake. :-\


I'm not saying they are. By all means, Bitcoin has the capability of being a store of value. I'm just arguing against the contrary, that investing your coins in risky enterprises are pointless, stupid or whatever.

This is actually false. People wanting bitcoins is what gives them value, not people trading them.

You could argue that this is the same thing as trading them.

At the Bitcoin conference he said GLBSE has not had any problems from government. Guess a lot can change in 3 weeks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPD_YSQ--k&t=25m18s

Yep, that would be what you are doing ;)

was anyone actually making a profit (besides owners of 'companies') in the last few months ?

Not me. I lost about 20% in the last few months due to scams (FPGAMINING) and capital devaluation (several mining assets).
So this can be an apt conclusion of my BTC investment career: Better to go with a bang.

Well, recently I have made some good guesses  :)

And I honestly see no other explanation for what happened this week.

Thanks for the link. Haven't watched the conference yet, so might as well do it now!

Well, the lenders who make a service of loaning coin to the creators of bonds who in turn loan coin to the people who loan coin for bonds to insure the interest-bearing bonds that they insure for themselves and then pay claims to the people who loan coins to the creators of bonds whose only trade volume is bots playing against each other with artificially fabricated bid walls might have made a couple of points.

But the rest of the world pretty much just took the shaft from all the amateur manipulators and business tycoon types who are killing this economy.

I have been getting a couple percent a month. Nothing huge, I have been caught by suprise a couple times, but still better than my 401k is getting.

I didn't realize I missed so many conference videos. Just finished getting caught up on just about all the videos and everything makes a lot more sense now.

GLBSE is working with lawyers / legality / regulations (hence no communication for a week so far).
BFL devices are real and being tested. GLBSE and BFL are working together since the majority of income for them is a result of the security exchanges and miner stocks/bonds.

People have a lot of good ideas in the community that'd I like to see come to fruition. The conference was a good indicator of that.

Ok, now that I've said this I've got to A) make note of this post for a later "I told you so" moment, and B) brace myself for the fury of tin-foil hat wearing paranoids who think everything and everyone is scamming them.

IMHO, the problem with these companies is less the question of scamming, it's more their announcement strategies. E.g. GLBSE: I simple: "We doing a major security upgrade to the site. More information available on saturday" would be an improvement. The lack of information reminds me of the information politics used during legal activities.

You could argue that, up to the point where someone comes up and says "hoarding destroys value". At which point you can't argue that anymore.

I have nothing wrong with guessing, I just think that narrowing it down to one option is far too limiting:

• Simple Lawsuit, needs to talk to lawyer/magistrate before he can re-open. May have a long term impact, may not.
• SEC/FSA are cranky about something and the sky is falling, maybe, unless they let him fix it and more on
• SEC doing clawbacks, does not trust system, insists on offline action. No long term impact except for those that get clawed
• IT issue that starting with the word "Whoops!" that requires recovering from backup or fscking a few volumes. No long term impact.
• Failed Upgrade, see above
• POTENTIAL security issue like a backdoor or vulnerable component was discovered, and is being fixed before it gets exploited. No long term impact.
• Has not paid hosting bill and provider shut him down until they get paid. No long term impact, assuming it is paid.

Now, I agree that about half of these should have had a better notification process in at least half of these scenarios, but I bet there are other, explanations as well. If I had to guess at one , I'm on the SEC Clawback train, but I have a transfer in my hand to hop on the IT Issue Bus, because it is about as likely in my experience. Honestly the "Goat sued him" line is right up there on the probability scale too.

What did I miss? There must be a couple other possible explanations. If we are going to play guessing games let's at least get a good menu built!

Interesting. He also said he had not talked to a lawyer yet, which is stupid.
Perhaps he did talk to one now,  and realized the legal consequences of what he is doing?

Couldn't agree with you more.

Do it!  :D
I had an IPO or two I was about to take the plunge on, if you set up an exchange I'll IPO there  :)

Nope, we can argue it.

Hoarding is trading the current value of a commodity against it's future value. It is a transaction between Now-You and Future-You. Now-You might have enough value to buy an iPhone, but trades that current value to Future-You who has promised to buy him a little red sports car in 20 years.

It can also be viewed as a more complex form of trading if the hoarding is being used for market control, except now you are trading in emotions as well as commodities...

Perhaps, but it would make no sense not to make an announcement saying that he's taking the exchange offline based on legal advice, let alone to keep the shareholders in the dark about what's happening.  There has to be a reason why updates to users aren't being made before Saturday - my guess is that there's something happening which isn't immediately certain and that he's hoping to have more clarity about the situation by then.

I think Nefario has only 32 hours from now to post an updates.

Hopefully theymos will post an update after the shareholders' meeting and give people some clue as to what's going on.

It's beginning to sound as though GLBSE does not have any kind of legal existence which is separate from the individuals who hold equity in the business.  If that's the case, then those who hold equity have not only a right but a positive duty to be aware of what is happening with GLBSE as they are jointly and severally liable for its actions.

Precisely, and unfortunately Nefario seems have severely mishandled the situation.

I do think this all could have been handled a bit better, but I also understand the situation he's in. Imagine if you were in his shoes. You're there with a handful of other members, managing them, new IPOs, finances, scam accusations, renovations to the site and existing infrastructure, and all the while working with legal and governmental agencies to establish real world legitimacy.
That's an extremely stressful and overwhelming scenario, and it doesn't help when it's your first time running a fast growing business and you're learning along the way.

Hopefully tomorrow we see some good news.

This is why ventures need proper business plans and growth needs to happen in a controlled manner - and why so many ventures fail because of their own initial success.  All of the things you listed should not be happening at one time and one person should not be responsible for managing them all.  Businesses are extremely vulnerable during growth and that vulnerability needs to be planned for.  That applies in the conventional world just as much as in the Bitcoin world.  What is slightly different is that in the Bitcoin world we're often seeing start-ups quickly become responsible for large amounts of other people's funds - because the primary "product" being demanded and offered is financial services.  This means the consequences of failure during expansion often involve the loss of other people's funds and not just those of the principals.

And yes, not just your first but every business you run has a learning curve - that's no excuse for failing to do your homework and due diligence both prior to launch and on an ongoing basis, though. 

Well stated, and I agree for the most part. Sometimes, however, even the best business plans can fall victim to random events and changes, all resulting in chaos. Sometimes the biggest challenge, and staple of a successful venture, is being able to get through it in one piece  :)

I dont want to bash Nefario, but if it is true that he hasn't talked to a lawyer yet, that is def. not a positive sign.
Although the community might be split and many might prefer to keep the status quo of GLBSE (anonymity,...)
in my opinion the next step is to professionalize it. This means probably that Nefario has to delegate certain
responsibilities (finance, marketing & PR, Legal,...).

Interesting could be a look how governments around the world regulated similar businesses in 2nd Live (L$)
Under these circumstances I personally would not invest @the moment in GLBSE...

GLBSE is going to be damaged by this no matter what the reason for it being taken offline.  That damage will probably be irreparable if Saturday's "update" doesn't include full and frank disclosure of the nature of the problem which took it offline.  Let's hope that the update isn't "more info in a few day" or something similar.

I am tempted to do it, since i remember that he was confident about being beyond the law due to the nature of BTC, and so there was no risk of what is now probably happened. Now we discover that he did not ask a lawyer at the time. Talking 'bout very lax way of doing. In fact, why care? It's just our monies.

GLBSE. What an amateur setup.

So the 12th page summary is: GLBSE was a scum and Nefario is going to jail... hmm...
Call ma a troll again (and don't forget to add me to your ignore list), but I just must say it: I told you so! :)

You're jumping to conclusions. Right now all we know is that Nefario screwed up his reputation by practicing a terrible information policy.

GLBSE and nefario is so fail.

I did a post on Banking regulations in India today.
Hope this is something that can be looked into across the world as well.

http://wp.me/P2ITcm-2R

You can still see it like that, since there is a lack of information... but what I see is exactly what I had predicted: GLBSE was a highly illegal business and Nefario was just a crook working in conspiracy with other crooks... and one of them was theymos - the admin of this forum, who owned 23% of GLBSE - had anyone of you known about it?

You want to wait to find out if my conclusions are true - be my guest! Keep waiting for other explanation...
But then, at the end, I will just need to repeat again "I told you so!" :)

I'm, not jumping to conclusions - I were at the conclusions more than a month ago. Just did not know as many details as today...

I just watched Nefario's talk here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iPCpmv678

It... scares me. He seems like a nice enough guy, I dont doubt his good intentions, but he is clearly in way over his head. Getting nervous to talk for like 10 people and he doesnt even know for sure what arbitrage is..?

I also think he is quite wrong thinking GLBSE operates in a legal vacuum. IANAL, particularly not a UK one specializing in finance, but what little Ive read so far suggests he is 100% wrong. Even if he's not, its incredibly dumb not having gotten legal advice yet to make sure.

This wont end well I fear :/

Still no word from any of the GLBSE operators?  No responses to this thread?  What gives guys?

Every week that goes by, it becomes more and more clear that the only safe thing to do with bitcoins is to hoard them in cold storage.

But if everyone did that, there would be no transactions and bitcoin would fail.

GLBSE == Very bad for bitcoin.

Oh man this bit is GREAT!

"When things go wrong you find out about how things actually work as opposed to how you thought they worked."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iPCpmv678&t=1m40s

When you watch the interview in London with Nefario you get the impression he wants to "smart out" the government.  :(
"we can move that anywhere almost instantly"
"if we do have problems, we can move the important stuff out off the jurisdiction, that decides that is going to crack down"
         

      Q: Are you experiencing some problems from governments from I don't know ways like Interpol
          or anything either questions asked like which you dont like.

      A: Nefario: I have had zero interest or problems with governments our largest problem has been from fraud
          particularly with assets that take to be from enormous issuers.

      Q: Ok, But what do you have some lawyers like very good lawyers or are you thinking about moving your
          company to some nice like Carribean Islands or something because i am not saying that governemnts will be
          interested in you like tomorrow or this month but i feel one day maybe in a few months they will so unless
          you have a plan and you cannot tell us or you just have some ideas that you could tell us ok i m save i have
          five passports you have no problems I would like to hear what is your plan ?

      A: Nefario: so, Ok firstly we can move *** data which is all the important part of ***, the database of accounts and transactions
          we can move out anywhere very, very quick. Its backed up in several places encrypted and than the capital on
          the market is in bitcoin, so we can move that anywhere almost instantly.
          so if we do have problems we can move the important stuff out off the jurisdiction that decides that is going to crack down
          Secondly i haven t been really taking to lawyers i kind of just went into this, but I have been talking to other people,
          and i will be getting a lawyer very soon.
      A: You should !
      Q: Yes
      A: You must
      Q: I m convinced of this now. I m tryin to put this off.
          as I hate lawyers.
 
      (Interview with Nefario, Bitcoin conference 2012 London, 25min19sec, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPD_YSQ--k&t=25m18s)

He seems to be really passionate about GLBSE and bitcoin, but it looks to me that he made the second before the first step...
         
         

I'll hold my breath, just like I did for Pirate.

Oh boy... Nefario is fucked. Truly fucked. All GLBSE partners are probably fucked too. :(

How is that you aren't already dead of asphyxia?  :P

Market manipulation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Market manipulation is a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances with respect to the price of, or market for, a security, commodity or currency.[1] Market manipulation is prohibited in the United States under Section 9(a)(2)[2][3] of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and in Australia under Section s 1041A of the Corporations Act 2001. The Act defines market manipulation as transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradeable security.

Does this seem familar to you ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

This seems to be SOP for Bitcoin ventures.  They start with $5 and a website and hope to hell that they fly under the radar.  If you can't afford to consult lawyers and accountants before launching your venture, then you probably shouldn't be trusted with other people's money.  Styling yourself CEO or holding "shareholder meetings" is just irresponsible wankery if you haven't set up your venture legitimately and you're just hoping that various regulations don't apply to you because...Bitcoin.

In future, when people start claiming that some law or regulation doesn't apply to them because...Bitcoin, it might be prudent to ask them to demonstrate that they've obtained a written legal opinion supporting that claim.  We've got far too many people who "just want to create" running ventures without ensuring that they engage someone with relevant experience to ensure that their vulnerability to legal and regulatory issues is minimised.  Ignoring practical realities in favour of idealism is a recipe for disaster when it's other people's funds you're putting at risk.  It's reckless at best and criminally negligent at worst.


You'd need to see the case law, but these kinds of violations are often dealt with at an administrative level - ie, you're fined and either agree to either shut down or become compliant.  Of course I doubt that the operators of GLBSE have the same kind of reserves to pay fines as large financial institutions.


I doubt anything listed on GBLSE would be classed as a "tradeable security" under the Corporations Act 2001.

Yes... Or maybe the settlement is shut down and refund all monies invested in the exchange. Good luck with that.  All the pirate pass-thru funds.  Maybe he can avoid jail, but this could mean financial ruin for all involved.

If jurisdiction considers it to be fraud, they also could lift the corporate veil... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil)
than it would get ugly... :o

anyway, everything is just speculation now. We will see...

There is no corporate veil.  The business has no legally separate identity from those who hold equity in it.

Isn't GLBSE registered in the UK as a Ltd. ?

I'm happy I pulled out the little amount I had on there after seeing his talk at the conference on youtube. I mean ... "Hey, I run a stock exchange but I haven't even consulted a law firm to see what regulations apply to my activity" and that on a major public venue ...  ::)

I hope he pulls true and starts looking at things more professionally.

Then we might have The Big Bitcoiners Crackdown on the newspapers' covers soon?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112402.msg1217225#msg1217225

Ok, so he was just going to register in the UK...

I guess 80 % of the bitcoin businesses are not registered in real life, though
once it becomes a success it could already be too late.

As I already said it is time to move on, and make Bitcoin more professional...

When a thread like this gets to be 14 pages long (or more), does anyone actually read EVERY post or do people just read the last few and feel the need to chime in?

YES!

Basically the thread title and the last page.  Hardly ever even the OP.

me too

As I' only able to remember the last 3 posts I read, it makes absolutely no sense to read the whole thread.

Wait, what was the discussion about?


Kidding. Most people in such long threads are in there from a very early stage, so no need to read it all over and over again.

MPOE.ETF made a whopping 1200% in its 5 month history.


There's no such things as "transactions between now you and future you". Sorry.

Not on here they don't.  A few hundred posts is apparently too many to read to become informed.  Given the relatively short life-span of most things Bitcoin, I guess there's no need to develop a long attention span.

The problem is that out of a couple hundred about 75% of them are crap. 

Skim.  I find it more of a problem that we end up with multiple threads across multiple forums each of which will contain a little bit of relevant and valid information.  I'd much rather have one or two central threads where information is located and skim through those than have to go hunting for information all over the forums and miss some of it because it's located in non-intuitive places.

I'm calling on Loup to inject some humor.  Replace "Postal Service" with "SEC" and "Thai honey" with "unlicensed securities". 


Pleeeeez?  I need a good laugh about now...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115669.0

This is copied from the GLBSE.com

First question, who has put this up on the front page? Is it nefario or theymos?

Nefario, theymos has no control on the GLBSE website directly.

looks like half of the bitcoin economy is heading down the toilet  ::)

Bitcoin is ready to drop this piece of whit forum with everything it represents and move to completely new location.
Not only 90% of BTC "businesses" are total scam, this forum is owner(s) and its pompous moderators are scammers too. You can not expect anything good from a cesspool like this.
Fuck you all for lying to this community every fucking day and supporting scammers like Trendon Shavers, Nefario and obviously theymos, who wanted to dump his share of that shit on the community.

Theymos, do you have balls to tag yourself as a scammer? LOL!

Same crap, different place?
Sorry, but this is the end of this funny internet money. Money means trust. Without trust has no value since you can't do anything with it.
For serious money there is already gold and silver. No need of strange inventions.
And now I am going to sell my VGAs and forget about this huge waste of time and money.

Just wait until you realize that no matter where you move the game, the scammers will always follow.  Sorry, but bitcoin is for scammers.

http://bensonsamuel.com/2012/10/05/reserve-bank-of-india-regulations-on-bitcoin-in-india/

For those who missed it.

its got nothing to do with this. No one is saying bitcoin itself is illegal in the US, EU, India or elsewhere.
But now go look up your local laws regarding securities.

I was planning to get fully verified on glbse and launch an IPO... Pretty glad I didn't now.
Personally, more than I'm worried about my own funds on glbse (not a whole lot, about 35BTC) I'm worried about the implications for current asset issuers, who are likely as not violating federal securities law (if US based).

Does anyone have anything about the legal implications of doing a bitcoin IPO in the UK?

Bitcoin's inherent attractiveness  has apparently attracted the worst kind of people ( ok, not all of you.....).
 and "moving Bitcoin"  is impossible because Bitcoin is the people that use it. 

Does this mean that btc will be returned at IPO price? I'm confused.
How will we have our Bitcoins returned that are tied up in assets?

the Bitcoins that you had in your account will be returned. Bitcoins that were used to buy assets cannot be returned by GLBSE because they were traded for the asset,  the issuer of that asset has those bitcoins.

Hence

GLBSE is in the UK. I think that should answer your question. :-)

That's if Nefario and/or Theymos give us back the bitcoins. If i judge how the whole story evolved until now, (there wasn't even a warning ) there is little chance to get our bitcoins back.  >:(

In this situation my panic or not doesn't change pretty anything.

There is nothing I can do. :) gonna take some barbecue with friends.

Fucking liars.

I have had my demand in for over 8 days providing all the information this latest line of garbage is spewing for all of my assets to be paid out immediately.

Nefario and all the other criminals who own this exchange are now in debt to me, and I demand payment in full. You have been served notice publicly, and have all the records privately.

I hold every owner of GLBSE the holding company equally liable, being the first rat off the sinking ship with your words does not excuse this obligation.

There's a lot of talk about what legal entity forced the closure of GLBSE. But I'm willing to bet that it wasn't closed as the direct result of any investigation.

I'm willing to bet that after looking into all the legal trouble they might have to go through to get "legit," they instead said "fuck it."

Aww look at Loup get all pissy about his monopoly shares on GLBSE getting held up.

Maybe next time you won't send your money/bitcoin to an unregulated stock exchange in which the owner doesn't know the meaning of the word "arbitrage".

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPD_YSQ--k

We need more clowns like you. Please bring the whole troop so we can have another good laugh after laugh.

 :D

The IRC conversation which theymos posted seems to confirm that.  It looks like in the process of finding out about "legitimising" GBLSE, Nefario discovered that he was on risky legal ground regarding AML and taxation requirements if he continued operating GBLSE as-is.  This is something he would have known all along - as would the other shareholders - if they'd ever consulted a fucking lawyer, like normal business people do, when they launched the project .  It's not up to users to determine what legal risks service operators should take.  Only the person taking the risks can determine what level of risk is acceptable to them.

Hopefully, future service operators will seek legal opinions and determine what level of risk is acceptable to them before they start handling other people's funds - if you can't afford legal advice, you sure as shit shouldn't be trusted to handle hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of other people's funds.  I wouldn't count on it though.  

But being held to no regulation pretty much does.  Sorry, but this is why regulations and laws exist.  Trust people with money at their word, and they'll screw you every time.  This community is the living screaming proof of that.

But hey, caveat emptor, right?

That was interesting, though he got the definition at least partially correct (I'm not sure what assets he was specifically referring to), but was just unsure of the definition.  It's also interesting that he says GLBSE could shut down and reopen anywhere.  We'll see.

http://btc411.com/2012/10/06/glbse-closed-nefario-acting-nefarious/ (http://btc411.com/2012/10/06/glbse-closed-nefario-acting-nefarious/)

Geez smoothster- I though we were friends, being as how we both fight for justice and integrity and the honest way of doing things and all.

Truth be told, I don't expect to see a single thing back from the next greatest rip-off in bitcoin history. I'm just pointing out an obligation, because I finally got stung (a little bit, 208.5 btc, the family is still able to afford groceries, thanks for worrying) in one of these. Yet another nail in the coffin of any possible use for bitcoin other than funding drug purchases on silkroad and funding anal lube for the "customers" of all the genius businessmen here.

Get ready for it kids, bitcoin is going down the path of specialized criminal enterprise so fast it outstrips belief. The next big disaster is already out there- BFL's and the massive pre-order, that will end up getting the royal shaft in about 30 days. Of course, my bets against their delivery were all on GLBSE, so I won't get to enjoy a glass of bubbly celebrating that particular premonition.

Let's just wrap this joke up and call it finished. It was an experiment in what an unregulated currency could do to save mankind from his ugly, brutish and short self, and all we have done is prove that all most people want to do is prey on one another to satisfy their own greed. Bitcoin business is really little more than a collection of blood-sucking leeches who have the technical chops to wrap their confidence games in crypto-technical mumbo jumbo, and play the mark by sounding like they actually give a damn about fixing the economic reality of our world. But in the end, all we find is a bunch of petty gangsters who would sell their mothers for the next tin coin.

Bitcoin works just fine for me. I am still able to, just like I was able to do it in previous months, use it to transfer money internationally. I still have some savings. No one has scammed me yet. Any coins I have invested are coins I can afford to lose.
Things you complain about are simply a consequence of Bitcoin being new, obscure, and unregulated. All of this will get better. Quit whining, and start using coins. It's a great technology.
 

+1

+1

From GLBSE Website:

Update:we will begin processing account closures and returning bitcoin later today.

Sure, I can AFFORD to lose everything I had invested, and everything that I have in other wallets and storage and it would not collapse my personal economy. What I lament is the loss of integrity, and reputation that yet another bitcoin venture going down the path of non-communication and theft of our value that will be the result of this.

I don't need to be encouraged to use coins, I've been negotiating for the past six months to get them adopted as a payment method for an international office products supplier. Guess what their reaction will be later today when I meet with the marketing team? Oh, another untold hundreds of thousands of dollars lost because some simple minded fuck in London decided to wipe out his precious little exchange so that he could fund his lawyer bills with stolen money? Right. And you really want to suggest we accept this "trustworthy" form of payment? That's the door right over there, don't let it hit you in the ass.

Ah, but wait, we can use it to balance out international exchange rates, right? Oh, except 99% of the business is tied up in a single exchange that has already suffered three notorious hacks, and has a troubling history of freezing assets on a whim, and cannot handle the most basic paperwork requirements without constant reminders.

So I'm crying for an Argentina (thanks Eva!) that goes way beyond my few coins. This latest rape of the community by James McCarthy and the rest of the investors that owned his venture and did nothing to keep it honest or functioning, could very well be the death knell for bitcoin. How many more failures, criminals and rip-offs are we going to be willing to overlook? How many more millions of dollars and euros and rupees in value is the world going to sacrifice on the altar of cutting edge technology that can change the way we transfer value, when 90% of it ends up getting lost, stolen, hacked, frozen. diverted, shifted, and hidden in business ventures that can't get the principles to agree on what day of the week it is, much less anything honest, like following through on the service or product they offered.

And they we all hold these self-same criminals up as the paragons of the community. Nefario and Amir were glorious speakers in London, their journey there being paid for with YOUR stolen money. Their glad-handing and welcoming smiles, and hollow words all paid for with somebody else's wealth, stolen and diverted to them, and explained away with a simple shrug and a "too bad, we were hacked and we don't know what we could possibly do."

I am nauseated by the acceptance of this kind of garbage business practice. I welcome pirate being investigated by the SEC, and I look forward to offering testimony and my copious conversation records with McCarthy when he is next to be taken down by the SEC. I truly hope the New Zealand receiver who is sorting out bitcoinica finds criminal intent and suggests the whole intersango group of thugs be charged. I hope the bitcoinica lawsuit results in Amir and Patrick and the rest being broken and destroyed financially, and that they are forced into real homelessness. Until we all stand together to block the actions of these scammy little thieves, we shall all surely fall together as they distort bitcoin into their own personal whorehouse.

I wish Nefario would open a thread or something so we could ask questions.

He says they will return bitcoins. Where are they sending them? I sent in coins from various webwallets, so using the sending address would be a bad thing. My latest withdrawls were payments directly from GLBSE to other people, so the withdrawl addresses would be a bad thing. I don't remember ever giving a "In case GLBSE shuts down send funds here" address?

It seems really sad that so many bitcoiners are putting so much effort in displacing us, Argentines, as the World's Clusterfuck Champions...

Even worse: the Assets on GLBSE probably far outweigh the Bitcoins... I don't see them mention anything about that, yet they are talking about account-closures....

Even pirate had a permanent withdrawal address :)

As depressing and cynical as this statement proves to be, there is a fair amount of truth here. There are so many ideas people want to see flourish, yet we can't find a safe place to fund and work on them. I often rag on people for being so paranoid about scammers around every corner and everything's a conspiracy... And it seems lately they've been right more often than not  :-\

This is my issue, except I never withdrew BTC, so there's even less for me to verify myself with and/or get my BTC out. Granted I didn't keep much for straight coin there, but I'd like to get what I can from it.

Ya think?!

I believe that BFL will deliver... If not, it would be a huge blow to bitcoin, one from which it would take months or years to recover. There has been too much pain and suffering these past few months...

You know, if I got into a situation like this (assuming the regulators are up his ass and he's not pulling some shady bullshit) and was faced with the threat of government force...I would risk my personal safety and just refund people no matter what. The depositors did not enter into a contract with GLBSE in the way he is now trying to force them to. Sometimes you just gotta man up and deal with your bad decisions.

Easier said [typed] than done of course. Nefario half-assed his work on GLBSE. There were so many aspects that he didn't know how to control, and failure is the result. It's hard to imagine he'd have his head in the game long enough to focus on his clientele's money and repayment, all while dealing with regulatory fallout.

+1

The most of losses will be from the devaluation of the shares to about zero (I wonder how they will be traded if at all). And Nefario probably cannot refund nowhere near the whole GLBSE capitalization.

I don't think that would be to big a deal really.  A fair amount of money may change hands, but it seems to me like the losers would be relatively few in number and somewhat un-loved to boot.  That is to say, a lot of people (including myself) would feel perhaps some amount of sympathy but also very much that the losers had it coming.

The biggie would be if Mt. Gox packed it in.  Fortunately Mark gives every indication of seeming resistant to such a temptation.  OTOH, it is hard to predict the type of pressure that may come up.

A good selling point for an exchange (and any business which held customer's value) would be a functional 'SCRAM' system whereby with the tap of one big red button, all value would be immediately returned to customer's addys and cleanup could proceed from that state.

I'm really just talking about any BTC currently held by him that is in limbo. While I understand that not being able to trade something on an exchange can lower it's value drastically, I don't think he has any responsibility to keep his website up or reimburse you for losses because of that (in fact, if this wasn't in the terms of conditions of using the site, he's real stupid and opening himself up to huge liabilities). If anything, that falls on the issuers...because if they are legit and out to serve their clients, they can always validate your stake and move their business to another exchange.

In the classical markets, an entity like this gets labeled Too Big To Fail.

We really could do with having some viable alternatives out there BEFORE we desperately need them.

I think this message has been up all day. Has anybody gotten any money back yet?

If you need to ask what the legal issues are you shouldn't be doing an IPO in the first place.

Seems to have worked for glbse you own: start now, ask lawyer later. Oh, wait, didn't work so well, did it?

The first version of glbse was called "blackmarket". What could go wrong ?

I dont exactly know what drugs nefario was taking that made him think going anywhere near the uk regulatory bodies was a good idea in the first place.

Boy, this should be a hard lesson. If we as a society are to shift to an anarchist society or even a decentralized economic system, we need to take advice from that sticky in the Newbies section and Trust No One.

http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/interview-with-nefario-founder-of-bitcoin-global

Maybe they can put up a counter like pira
Maybe they can put up a counter like pirate:

0 / xxx accounts Have been paid ;-)

I was talking to someone who know about the laws around here (not US) and guess what: Setting up a bazaar (market) to trade some virtual  tokens (BTC is not a currency) is completely OK until legal currency is kept out of the equation.
You say BTC has value in fiat? So do all the stupid game cards that kids collect and trade in some countries. They do not call their collections Co's and themselves CEO and are not selling you a "share of ownership or debt (big bad words) in a INC, LLE, LTD etc". 

American based SEC has NOTHING to do with BTC. BTC is not a security. Only reason they can get upset is if  you keep calling your imaginary "what ever" a real company an keep telling to people,  how you are running a business blaa blaa blaa, dividends, IPO etc.  Then it can be considered as a scam and they (SEC, IRS, FSA, police etc) will get curious.

If you sell tokens for a imaginary team that operates under guidelines X and rewards it's members in those same game tokens (btc) no one cares wtf you do. Start using big words and you are in deep shit. As simple as that.

So. Nefario. Use some SQL magic, rename those moronic contracts to what they really are and open up your token bazaar.
You are running a online shop for trading game tokens to "teams" of imaginary teams of miners and cosmonauts.
 

IANAL; however I am pretty sure that won't work and will add on racketeering charges as well.

Often in US law/cases it is the intent that plays a deciding role. AIOTS (Any Idiot Off The Street) would agree that Jimmy was not attempting to operate an illegal exchange.  However would that Same Idiot agree about nefario?  Or would it be painfully obvious that he (nefario) was attempting to game the system and run an illegal exchange?

Also you will not attract 'real' investors or 'real' companies by doing that.  I would like to label this idea the SCAM MULTIPLIER.

I read them all.

I have been watching this thread since it started, so I come back every so often and read all the new posts.

If I come across a long thread that I have not watched from the beginning, I typically read the whole first page and the whole last page, sometimes a couple pages back from the end to get more context for the current discusion.

I'm just quoting this for the future reference. "SQL magic" is a cute euphemism for "obstruction of justice" or "perverting the course of justice". I haven't seen it used before.

Re: GLBSE is offline We will update our users on Saturday.

I don't care any more about all my assets in GLBSE. All I care from now on is who, how and when will be able to get Nefario(us) convicted.
Maybe this subject is worth of another thread.

To be fair, they did update us

With information that raised more questions

Just like the guy with the eye–patch does

Has anyone received any payouts jet?

Or at least any payout informations?

I suspect no, but just maybe I missed something.

(Even if free BTC are only a fraction of what I have in there)

not yet, still in the dark.

on GLBSE you can now log in and put email and payout address

I lol'd

What, no group picture with shoes on our heads?

Wow, is that real?  That sounds like one of those "your great uncle in Zimbabwe died and we need all of your bank info and SSN, mothers maiden , address , favorite pet, favorite color, where you bank at" type of email then we will send you $5,000,000,000,000

I thought it was a sock.

What photo should I send in as a sign of protest.  A nice photo of my ass or someone on the Top 10 Wanted List (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists)?

When did GLBSE become reddit with this hold a picture of a sheet of paper, so dumb.

Maybe nefario found his lawyer on reddit.  I wouldn't be surprised with this group.

How are they going to verify if it is really  a picture of my balls or someone else's?  

What a joke. I can't imagine anyone doing that.

lol...was going to post a picture along with my reply but I refrained ... ;D

Withdraw address

First bits 1myballs


My 80 year old father got a email from Bill Gates the other day asking for all the same info, except for the picture. He thought bill Gates was really sending him money, I told him they were going to steal his identity.

login has been disabled again. it now says

It probably got ddos'd with ass pics.

1myballsandcock

I really hope so, this really makes me smile.

Is it wrong of me to hope so?

Nefario did this.  Shareholders' meetings, company secretary, treasurer, accountant who isn't really an accountant, by-laws - all kinds of things which might lead the uninformed to conclude that BitcoinGlobal and GLBSE were actual companies with boards of directors, company registration, etc.

And of course then there's the "asset-issuers" (some of whom are based in the US) who most definitely referred to IPOs, bonds, shares, business models, shareholders, dividends, etc.

hmm, I don't have a passport and I'm not going to get one. It will cost me more time and money that I have in my GLBSE account not counting the possibility of compromising my ID. In EU you can travel without a passport on your country's ID (no passports are needed). Enjoy my couple of BTC you nefarious scammer  8) I wonder how many people will comply and trust this guy to give him their IDs.

Fuck I'm so happy I withdrawn over 100 BTC just hours before GLBSE went down.. This is one scam too much..

You can't even do that anymore since he shut it down again.  I wonder if anyone who complied with the ridiculous demands for identity theft-enabling information has received their funds back.  For the amount I had on the exchange, there's no way I'm giving a fool/thief like Nefario any of my personal information.

http://i45.tinypic.com/24fjp8x.jpg

So, where is my money asshole?

Anyone sending in copies of their passport should add some text in front of the picture, like a big red "for GLBSE use only" or something.. Then it will be harder for anyone to use it for illegitimate purposes if they get stolen by "hackers" or whatever.

Example: http://bayimg.com/CADNCaaeN

"Claim finished

Your claim has been submitted and will be reviewed. You will be contacted (via the email address you provided) to keep you up to date on the status of your account, we will try to get your bitcoin to you as soon as possible."



That is what I saw when I went to GLBSE. Yesterday I logged in and did my address + email. Today I went back in and got that message without having to submit any AML documentation. We will see what happens.

I can confirm, just did that as well

No AML requirements

Submitted my claim, simple... and hopefully effective.

i can also claim that hopefully it isn't bug

I had started the claim process back when it required the ID, but stopped prior to uploading anything.  When I returned just now, GLBSE immediately said my claim was complete, which is kind of odd.  Anyway, we'll see how it goes.

that was my situation as well. hopefully all they'll need is email and a btc address. didnt need anything more than that to start the account anyways

I just submitted my claim and hoping to get my bitcoin on GLBSE firstly.

YOU GOT FAT FINGERS! lol :P

It's a thumb, jack-ass.

How does it feel to get fucked up ur ass from GLBSE?

And a thumb is a finger dumb-ass.  :D

Corrected!!  ;) ;D

actually technically a thumb isn't a finger js  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQr_2_EAmyA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQr_2_EAmyA)

Oh yeah? How so? ...technically haha

cause a thumb is both opposition and apposition, and that is unique to a thumb and not any of the fingers so yea

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_your_thumb_a_finger

oh rly?

wait you just linked to wiki answers LOL I believe wiki answers as much as I believe pirate LMAO

The point was that it is a matter of opinion whether a thumb is a finger or not. LOL

GLBSE crashed today.. that's good cause we need a better SE!

Boys, please... whatever the hell those funny fat digits directly opposing my index fingers are, can't we all just get along as we sit here with our fingers or our thumbs (or both) stuck up our asses waiting on GLBSE to get their shit together?

At least we didn't have to watch our mining bonds crash for the past few days.

No, we'll just be able to be told how far they have crashed to render the bonds worthless as each of the bond issuers banks the payout from GLBSE and tells the investors to go get stuffed. And that won't happen until Tinkerbell the Lawyer tells nefario that it is okay to stop lying about AML and actually do something about shutting down GLBSE honestly.

Indeed. At that rate they were going to be worthless anyway in a couple of months

Only if you invested in a bond without a solid upgrade plan.

finally a reasonable turn of events!

And if you cannot log in...

Nope, still screwed right now.

Password reset is nonfunctional and my credentials are not working.

Just sucsesfully claimed btc and shares without any demand of funny pictures. Only e-mail and bitcoin adress and option to provide them for shareissuers!

Dude better wax your arms, you've lost my respect there.

It would have been nice to receive a up-to-date .CSV-file of ones ownings, too, because I don't remember them all and didn't get one every time I traded something.

Even only a confirmation email would have been nice.... not like it's costing anything to send it !

Oh, that's just nasty! How else am I going to project that modern day Neanderthal look that is so key to my position on bitcoin scammers? Even seen a thug with waxed arms? No. Except maybe Joe Pesci. No, I want the little scammer to sleep nervously thinking that a giant nasty, hairy, troglodyte is coming for them in their dreams as they count other people's shekels. Gimli with a pissed off attitude and a 9mm if you will. Sleep tight little scammers, I know where you live...

Seemed more like the gay biker look than the neaderthal look to me, though my experience with either group is limited.

Wow that was gay...yeah go wax ur arms lol

Lol. Hence the werewolf reference?

Ding, ding, ding, get the poster a cookie!

It's that and a fondness for disturbing innocent virgin maidens in their sleep.

French people are harry what's the problem? 

FTFY  :P

Meh.. You calling me gay?

Are you French?  :D

yup....

let's get back on topic

when will I get my btc back?

Never?

From which particular failed Bitcoin enterprise?  There are so many.

from glbse...

Anyway, the answer to the question seems to be more or less the same for all of them...

Nevermore, nevermore, nevermore....

What he said ^

Probably time to add more scammers to your signature.

the new system for getting the assets seems fine, as long as we really get the money and the asset info out...

Did anyone get any sort of confirmation after accessing the GLBSE form to recover their assets?

Not here

Nope.

No confirmation here either.

I DID just get 0.5 BC come in on the BC address I provided (only used for GLBSE in the past). No other communications though. 0.5 BC is at least approximately the amount of outstanding dividends I had awaiting.

I also received the spare change I had still left in my accounts. Now I'm still waiting for the important, the asset information.

Is he sending out rounded amounts? I was expecting 0.87 btc, I seem to have gotten 1.00 (exactly).

must be. i had .06  ... got 0.1  woohoo!

Hopefully its more useable than  what goat got.

Great so this has gone from investing to gambling where what you had in may get rounded up in your favor or down and your loss.  What a mess.

I haven't gotten anything yet, but I had a very, very small amount in my account.

I received close to what I had in my account, can't remember the exact number.

Received 12.4... Apparently some of my sell orders went through between when I was asleep and when I found the site down.

http://blockchain.info/tx/8028625561d0bfb1cfdf1a7cde3415ea2bc6e0cf653544a92a49990484e58241

I don’t know the exact amount as I was getting trickles of dividends daily, but it's unlikely it would be 0.5000 BC on the nose so it seems that way. This seems a weird way to go about it - unless there is some specific reason not to pay out the exact amount.

agreed. All GLBSE accounts should have valid email accounts associated with them so why not just email everybody?

No confirmation - but received all BTC

Still  got nothing back myself.

I got my BTC repaid yesterday, and today I received this in the claim email address about 30 minutes ago:


That's all the email said.

I didn't have any assets besides the BTC, so I don't expect to receive anything further.

All I see is this:


I have not received any e-mails from GLBSE :(

Got the same email, didn't receive any of the bitcoin that I had there, not one iota.

it could be worse   :)
I received nuthin at all.

nothing received yet as well.

oh he meant the 20th. *wink*

nothing.
no email, no coins.

Same here

No payout, no email so far.

same  ???

I also don't have email from them. I hope GLBSE will send asset holdings information to the asset issuers soon, that's the most important for me :-X

nothing

I got an email saying my balance had been paid out-- which was probably pretty easy for them, since I didn't have any coins at glbse at the time of the crash!

Just got 90% of my BTC.. pretty unhappy, wish it was rounded up to 0.1 btc.

no mail, no  coins

According to the new article on the magazine site, he has over 800+ accounts to wade through. And this apparently is not an easy matter to do, and involved considerable time sorting them into batches and then manually processing the payouts.

Which, like everything else involving this exchange and this exchange operator in particular, is nothing but pure hot air.

Received my coins few days ago, no email.

Received e-mail a couple of hours ago, but no coins.


"Your GLBSE account has been partially processed. 90% of your funds have been returned to you with this payment. Once we recieve the remaining funds from our treasurer and secretary the final payment will be made and you will be informed. We will also inform you when we process your assets, allowing you to continue your relationship with your issuer."

Nefario already has all the user funds required to pay out 100% of claims.

That article started out about Nefario. Did anyone else get the feeling it ended up being mostly Theymos bashing?

~pyotr

I got this mail as well and have not recieved any BTC yet. I also don't get what it means.

Does it mean that 90% of all users have been paid and I'm one of the unlucky 10%?

Or that 90% of my funds have been paid to me (and somehow have disappeared on the way to me  ::))?

Actually Nefario lied about the voting numbers. 47% voted to oust him and ColdHardMetal refused to vote which would have put it over the line. Everyone at the meeting except for one person voted for Nefario to be sacked.

The reason for the holdup is Nefario extorting the rest of the shareholders so he can take whatever is left over after all claims have been paid leaving bitcoinglobal with no operating funds.

Also it was Nefario's decision alone to "go legit" and he approached a solicitor without approval from bitcoinglobal. The shareholders had no say in this at all. The whole thing has been rushed from the beginning including the botched payouts.

I got the email saying it was processed, but received nothing.

My coins arrived (90%).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115825.msg1258823#msg1258823
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115553.msg1258825#msg1258825
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115430.msg1258828#msg1258828

Lol dude wtf? Why did you post the same message three friggen times? Stop spamming the forums you loser. What, are you really being paid to post here? Looks like it.

Wait, you are saying he is doing all the processing MANUALLY? I guess that explains why the amounts are rounded.

I feel like there should be a simple script that would take the entered information (btc address, email address) and the account current balance, then (after checking to make sure they are valid) send the btc to the address and an email to the email address saying the process is complete. Is this really so difficult?

I seem to remember hearing something about single transactions with multiple outputs. Couldn't he just send one transaction to deliver a whole bunch of accounts their btc?

Received this Monday @ 3:50pm EST... still waiting...

Email 'Your GLBSE account has been processed for bitcoin." but no coins  :(

Yeah, same here.  Nefario's "rounding" rounded my small balance to zero.

looks like I might have gotten rounded to zero.

Of course, no email either.  ::)

James promised to keep people updated via http://blog.glbse.com/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115825.msg1295511#msg1295511

Like it'd be so hard to put this stuff on www.glbse.com.

Blog is not an exchange.

Are you arguing that www.glbse.com is still an exchange?  Or are you arguing that current relevant information regarding the shutdown status should not be on it?  I'm confused.

That's the fundamental problem right there... his promises are worth shit, his word is worth less than shit. He is conducting the demise of GLBSE exactly like he conducted the operations of both 1.0 and 2.0... and unmitigated fuck-up.

I still got nothing , no email, no coins.

More like Peter Lambert :(

http://www.dgcmagazine.com/the-old-radical-how-bitcoin-is-being-destroyed (http://www.dgcmagazine.com/the-old-radical-how-bitcoin-is-being-destroyed)  related blog post.

Peter will be First Officer on the rowboat across the River Styx, intersango and zhou are galley slaves rowing with nefario and pirate as co-Captains. I'm planning on blowing the bitch up mid-river.

I am not sure how Peter ended up so high on the list, he only ever had a couple hundred bitcoins at most.

Well, in my version of the slaves rowing to Hell Navy, first officer is a love slave for the captain, so the promotion is not all that desirable. And Peter was one of those sneaky early adopters of the scumbag philosophy, who maintained his aggressive marketing strategy to rape investors even after the bottom fell out of his scam.

I will be posting some new data on Mr. Lambert shortly for those of you who love good tales of bad people getting their comeuppance. Karma is a real bitch when she steals your car, humps your best friend on film, and then asks for alimony.

Wow, the "good stuff"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzI3Fwke6PE  lol "Count Nefaria"

i can understand that - my holdings (about 100 bitcoin) are really close to zero also. 100 = 0, dont you see it, ppl?


GIVE US OUR STUFF BACK, GODDAMN!

wow, I thought I was the only one that has a significant amount there and has not heard a thing yet.

I had about 260BC in my Balance at GLBSE. No email, no coins and not in the Issuers list where I should have been.

Who else is there?

no, you are'nt.

 :(

I don't think this kind of "HAHA I STOLE YOUR COINS AND BLAMED THE GOVERNMENT FOR IT" stuff is going to stop until someone gets the shit beat out of them.

I have read bitcointalk enough to see where this is going.
Not another assassination fund please!
On the other hand, someone should do some good Godfather-like reasoning with Nefario and some share-issuers to make a fair deal :)

How would that help? The people who have not been assaulted will still try to rip you off, and the one who you assaulted already ripped you off, they wouldn't be doing it a second time anyway.

Pretty good points.

Not that I advocate vigilante violence but there is a reason why Bitcoiners gets robbed more often then say a Mexican Drug Cartel.  Psst it has nothing to do with drugs.

Simple version is Bitcoin is a target rich environment.  You have the scammers fantasy of
a) people with money (or value).
b) people who are amazingly dimwitted (lets hand a guy named "Pirate" $5M in irreversible currency in a "super secret" business plan which exactly resembles but obviously for super secret reasons isn't a ponzi).
c) people who will do absolutely nothing when robbed.

To pull off a scam you have to have mark (see point b above), who has something worth stealing (see point a above), and you have to get away with it (see point c above).   The scammer trifecta.  Bitcoin will continue to attract bolder and bolder scammers, conmen, ponzi operators, and hucksters until a, b, or c are no longer true (or less true).

nailed it!

Actually it's pretty easy to satisfy c). Either go to the police and drag the guy in front of court (assumes you do at least know the real world identity), or sell your debt to a debt collector - they can be pretty annoying. Did anyone actually try that?

Ah. It does turn out that I'd been paid my whopping half a bitcoin or so some time ago. Forgive me for not really being concerned about anything other than the assets - which were worth at least a couple of bitcoins ;)