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Bitcoin => Hardware => Topic started by: BITMAIN on August 19, 2015, 10:21:38 AM



Title: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: BITMAIN on August 19, 2015, 10:21:38 AM
BITMAIN launches the 4th generation bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
 32.5GH/s per chip, 0.216W/GH/s with 0.66V core voltage

August 19th, 2015 (BEIJING) - Bitmain. formally announced today the company’s fourth-generation bitcoin mining ASIC chip, the BM1385. The company reports that the BM1385 chip was produced on the 28-nanometer process of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company(TSMC). Bitmain further stated that the chips utilize a full-custom design process, and that each chip can attain a hashrate of 32.5 billion hashes per second (GH/s). When powered with a core voltage of 0.66V, the chips have a power efficiency of 0.216 watts per gigahash-second, making it the most power-efficient bitcoin mining chip ever released to public.

Bitmain went on to indicate that the BM1385 chip will be used in the S7 model of the company’s well-known line of mining machines, Antminer. Though the Antminer S7 is still in development, Bitmain expects that the next-gen chip will be available for consumer purchase in the near future.


“The problem at the heart of designing chips for bitcoin mining,” said Bitmain chip designer and CEO, Micree, “is the careful balance of performance with electrical consumption. With lower power consumption, miners have lower electricity bills, or they can increase their hashrate without increasing their power expense.”

Since its founding in 2013, Bitmain has successively released three other generations of chips. The first was the BM1380, which utilized a 55 nanometer process node size. After that came the 28 nanometer BM1382, and then the 28 nanometer, semi-custom BM1384 chip. The new BM1385 chip is Bitmain’s first to feature a full custom design. Full custom design means that the chip engineers have to meticulously lay out each and every transistor inside the chip. This process requires significantly more time and effort than semi-custom chip designs, but can also result in faster processing, lower power consumption, and greater density of transistors. A well-designed full custom chip can attain massive performance gains over digital design and semi-custom design, but along with greatly increased investment required in engineer labor and time, there is a much higher risk that the chip will fail at tape-out -- a very costly mistake. Bitmain concluded through internal research that a full-custom 28 nanometer chip could greatly outperform chips built on 14 and 16 nanometer process nodes without the use of full custom design techniques.

The BM1385 chip powered at 0.66V can attain a 32.5 gigahash per second hash rate at a power consumption of 0.216 watts per gigahash second. When compared to the BM1384, Bitmain’s newest generation of chip has a 45% greater hashrate, while simultaneously consuming 50% less electricity. This has potentially huge implications for the bitcoin mining industry, as it can significantly reduce electricity costs of miners. Compared with other chips utilized in the current generation of bitcoin mining machines, the BM1385 is, by a wide margin, the most advanced chip available.
At the time that Bitmain’s previous generation of chip, the BM1384, was released, it was also the most powerful and efficient chip available. Releasing a new generation of cutting-edge chip in such quick succession only helps to solidify Bitmain’s strong position in the IC-design and bitcoin mining industries.

“We anticipate that before we release our full-custom 16 nanometer chip, the BM1385 will continue to be the industry standard for the bitcoin mining industry,” said Bitmain co-founder Wu Jihan. “We will continue to strive for more efficiency and lower costs for our customers.”

Chip & Miner Power Efficiency Comparison
BM1380BM1382BM1384BM1385
Produced inQ4 2013Q2 2014Q4 2014Q3 2015
Primary model used inAntMiner S1AntMiner S3+AntMiner S5AntMiner S7
At the wall power consumption2000W/TH800W/TH510W/TH230W/TH

Bitmain is a Beijing-based company specializing in integrated circuit design and hardware manufacturing. We are a 200-strong team of experienced IC-designers, venture capitalists, and seasoned internet entrepreneurs. In addition to our headquarters in Beijing, we have branch offices in Chengdu, Shenzhen, Fuzhou, and Hong Kong, and San Francisco.

Our mission is to build out the infrastructure for the current revolution in decentralized financial technology. In addition to producing industry-leading microchips, we’ve also produced several well-known models of bitcoin mining machines that are used by customers in all corners of the world. Our corporate ethos is to operate honestly and to provide mutual benefit for our customers. Bitmain enjoys a strong reputation in the bitcoin industry as one of the most established chip designers and producers of mining equipment. We will keep moving forward, improving our industry, and maintaining our competitive edge.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: elrippo on August 19, 2015, 10:25:17 AM
NICE to see the next GEN this year in a new Miner from Bitmain, well done!!!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: AddictedtoBitcoin on August 19, 2015, 10:32:14 AM
WOW,cant wait for the new miner ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 19, 2015, 10:45:12 AM
40% power consumption of previous gen is a pretty huge jump.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Guy Corem on August 19, 2015, 10:47:47 AM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: HyperMega on August 19, 2015, 10:51:33 AM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: jekecoin on August 19, 2015, 10:52:21 AM
wow, I'm interest to see the new desing of the U4


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Subw on August 19, 2015, 10:53:46 AM
Though the Antminer S7 is still in development, Bitmain expects that the next-gen chip will be available for consumer purchase in the near future.
Does it mean that Bitmain will sell new chip first and then miners?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Guy Corem on August 19, 2015, 10:54:52 AM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)
No. Forgot 21


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tupsu on August 19, 2015, 10:57:03 AM
BITMAIN launches the 4th generation bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
 32.5GH/s per chip, 0.216W/GH/s with 0.66V core voltage


Chip & Miner Power Efficiency Comparison
BM1380BM1382BM1384BM1385
Produced inQ4 2013Q2 2014Q4 2014Q3 2015
Primary model used inAntMiner S1AntMiner S3+AntMiner S5AntMiner S7
At the wall power consumption2000W/TH800W/TH510W/TH230W/TH


Where is
                                   Antminer S3++
                                   Antminer S4
                                   Antminer S4+
                                   Antminer S5+


Could also come S7+ or S7++ ?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: aarons6 on August 19, 2015, 11:11:17 AM
BITMAIN launches the 4th generation bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
 32.5GH/s per chip, 0.216W/GH/s with 0.66V core voltage


Chip & Miner Power Efficiency Comparison
BM1380BM1382BM1384BM1385
Produced inQ4 2013Q2 2014Q4 2014Q3 2015
Primary model used inAntMiner S1AntMiner S3+AntMiner S5AntMiner S7
At the wall power consumption2000W/TH800W/TH510W/TH230W/TH


Where is
                                   Antminer S3++
                                   Antminer S4
                                   Antminer S4+
                                   Antminer S5+


Could also come S7+ or S7++ ?

you forget that every single model that has came out has had a chart that showed much better j/ghs rate then the machine has actually produced..

hopefully 230w/th doesnt end up 400w/th :(



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: okg on August 19, 2015, 11:11:36 AM
Exciting news!

And i also wonder will the chips be on sale first then the S7?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: HyperMega on August 19, 2015, 11:25:31 AM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)
No. Forgot 21

No, because SP is not designing ASICs anymore?
Or no, because SP knows how to realize an <= 0.21 J/GH ASIC @ 0.66V in 28nm?

0.66V is a pretty high voltage for the claimed efficiency. It is hard to believe that they achieve this only by custom design techniques, it seems that they had a fundamental idea how to increase the efficiency of the calculations.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: heslo on August 19, 2015, 11:32:56 AM
Very nice! Might very well look at getting an S7 on release :D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: CroverNo on August 19, 2015, 11:41:55 AM
Might actually get back into a little hobby mine with the new S7 if the price is right. Well done to Bitmain for the great improvement. I think this will appeal to many small home users to get back into mining.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alienesb on August 19, 2015, 11:48:33 AM
Time to start saving coin


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 19, 2015, 12:09:36 PM
Time to start saving coin

I like this reply best.

I am glad that:

a) I did not crack and buy the s-5++
b) I grabbed some coin when prices dropped yesterday.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: marcotheminer on August 19, 2015, 12:17:57 PM
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alienesb on August 19, 2015, 12:19:39 PM
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: marcotheminer on August 19, 2015, 12:20:26 PM
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Medow on August 19, 2015, 12:20:40 PM
I am waiting to see the impact of this generation on the price of used S3+ and S4.

I am hoping for 25-30 USD for S3+.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 19, 2015, 12:26:11 PM
At 0.66V the BM1384 does about 0.3W/GH, so 0.216 is 72% of that power. Pretty decent. I'd be surprised if that was top-clock performance (comparable to the 0.45W/GH top-clock spec for BM1384) but it still gets my attention.

Nice job, Bitmain.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: bmoscato on August 19, 2015, 12:29:46 PM
I am waiting to see the impact of this generation on the price of used S3+ and S4.

I am hoping for 25-30 USD for S3+.

I'm thinking it will be more likely in the 75 USD area for the S3+.  People are still selling and buying S1 units for 30 bucks, even though they aren't efficient.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: flikflak on August 19, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Wow 230W @wall and still in 28nm - looks promising.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Medow on August 19, 2015, 12:50:23 PM
I am waiting to see the impact of this generation on the price of used S3+ and S4.

I am hoping for 25-30 USD for S3+.

I'm thinking it will be more likely in the 75 USD area for the S3+.  People are still selling and buying S1 units for 30 bucks, even though they aren't efficient.

With the current price any one with power price => 10 cent will have a zero profit running S3+.

With the expected diff jump when new generation come out i suspect that any one with power price => 5 cents will run zero profit S3+.

It will be better sell it for low price to collect some ROI.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 19, 2015, 12:55:18 PM
I am waiting to see the impact of this generation on the price of used S3+ and S4.

I am hoping for 25-30 USD for S3+.

I'm thinking it will be more likely in the 75 USD area for the S3+.  People are still selling and buying S1 units for 30 bucks, even though they aren't efficient.

With the current price any one with power price => 10 cent will have a zero profit running S3+.

With the expected diff jump when new generation come out i suspect that any one with power price => 5 cents will run zero profit S3+.

It will be better sell it for low price to collect some ROI.

no it is viable as a space heater and can be made far more quiet then newer gear. I have very low power cost in one spot 2.4 cents in the winter and the area needs a space heater.

So basically it is free power even if diff goes to 100 it still is a money maker for me.   Instead of using a 1500 watt space heater I run 4 of these.  So anyone that is running a space heater would be better off with the s-3.

The s-3 will not die off until it is truly dead. (ie none of them  run due to old age)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sajidfbi on August 19, 2015, 01:05:07 PM
that's quite good news,but i am really disappointed i can't even find a stock of 15 to 20 Antminer s5+ even from Bitmain official website,whenever i tried to purchase 15 upto 20 s5+ at once it's giving error that there are only very few limited available and now unfortunately all of them are gone SOLD, even i requested Bitmain for a discount and they said they would provide me discount on minimum 15 units purchase but they are not guiding how to get that discount either :(

I am very very disappointed.

A Special Request for BITMAIN please Guide me how to get the Discount during purchase and avail 15 to 20 s5+ for me,Thank you


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tupsu on August 19, 2015, 01:32:46 PM
............
With the current price any one with power price => 10 cent will have a zero profit running S3+.

...........

S3 still mining with profit.

HASHNEST
Antminer S3 Maintenance Fee:$0.00192/GHS/Day  

Maintenance/Payout(PPS)     87.07%

that's quite good news,but i am really disappointed i can't even find a stock of 15 to 20 Antminer s5+ even from Bitmain official website,whenever i tried to purchase 15 upto 20 s5+ at once it's giving error that there are only very few limited available and now unfortunately all of them are gone SOLD, even i requested Bitmain for a discount and they said they would provide me discount on minimum 15 units purchase but they are not guiding how to get that discount either :(

I am very very disappointed.

A Special Request for BITMAIN please Guide me how to get the Discount during purchase and avail 15 to 20 s5+ for me,Thank you

This train is long gone. Next comes after the two months .  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 19, 2015, 01:36:41 PM
230W per TH/s is nice. Now if they could make the S7 enclosed like the S3 that would be even nicer. Home miners, Bitmain, remember those?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: jonnybravo0311 on August 19, 2015, 01:39:47 PM
Looks like I might finally have to cave and upgrade the S3s.  Nice efficiency gains with the BM1385 Bitmain.  At 230W / TH, I'll be able to push just about 12TH using the same power I do now with my S3s.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Medow on August 19, 2015, 01:44:03 PM
..........................

no it is viable as a space heater and can be made far more quiet then newer gear. I have very low power cost in one spot 2.4 cents in the winter and the area needs a space heater.

So basically it is free power even if diff goes to 100 it still is a money maker for me.   Instead of using a 1500 watt space heater I run 4 of these.  So anyone that is running a space heater would be better off with the s-3.

The s-3 will not die off until it is truly dead. (ie none of them  run due to old age)

Yes, this is an alternative use for S3, but don't forget that these S3 need PSUs.

So if you need to buy a new mining gear you have a choice to use the S3 as a heater and buy a new PSUs for your new gears or you you use that S3 PSUs for your new gears and let S3 lay around doing nothing.

By the way: What do you think the price of S4 and will be?

...........

S3 still mining with profit.

HASHNEST
Antminer S3 Maintenance Fee:$0.00192/GHS/Day  

Maintenance/Payout(PPS)     87.07%

Yes they are profit for now on hashnest (which have a low maintenance fees compared to major home miners).

But the situation will change soon.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: worldinacoin on August 19, 2015, 01:45:22 PM
This looks good, but still the ROI looks to be infinity :(


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: majestymage on August 19, 2015, 01:45:42 PM
very interesting times ahead  :o


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kevindurant on August 19, 2015, 01:55:49 PM
That's very good news. 0.216W electric consumption is great. Mining will be more profitable with this device.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Xircom on August 19, 2015, 01:56:56 PM
Looks good, ,might end up with around 300-350Watt pr TH at release point. ETA ?
I would guess if chip just has been tapered out, we are looking at around 3-4 month time before design of miner is finished, but why drop the bomb now, so soon before launch??
Why even bring the S5+ up for sales ? That product just died with this announcement or was it because no one bought the S5+ !

No matter what, its a damn good achievement if they manage 0.216 with 28nm Technology... Whats next Spondoolies and Avalon ?




Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Xircom on August 19, 2015, 01:58:52 PM
That's very good news. 0.216W electric consumption is great. Mining will be more profitable with this device.

No it wont, Diff will increase with it....


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kevindurant on August 19, 2015, 02:02:24 PM
That's very good news. 0.216W electric consumption is great. Mining will be more profitable with this device.

No it wont, Diff will increase with it....

Yes it will. When Bitcoin price jumps off before block halving, mining expenses will be almost zero. It will have bigger effect than difficulty.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
This is what we have all been waiting for! This is exciting stuff and can't wait to see miner pictures and pricing as it is revealed!

Anyone notice this part "making it the most power-efficient bitcoin mining chip ever released to public." What have they kept for themselves or sold to private industries?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: edonkey on August 19, 2015, 02:10:17 PM
Why even bring the S5+ up for sales ? That product just died with this announcement or was it because no one bought the S5+ !

As other's have suggested, they probably wanted a vehicle to consume the current gen chips.

If you have low power costs and the right deployment environment, the S5+ can still make sense.

If they have another batch of the S5+, I will buy one rather than waiting.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 02:13:19 PM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)
No. Forgot 21
So any reason to why your HQ is not panicking or are they currently skipping this generation and just holding off and trying to be the first to release 16nm?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: majestymage on August 19, 2015, 02:25:55 PM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)
No. Forgot 21
So any reason to why your HQ is not panicking or are they currently skipping this generation and just holding off and trying to be the first to release 16nm?

i will love to see another war for our money performed with high class buy the mining gear developers  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 02:27:12 PM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)
No. Forgot 21
So any reason to why your HQ is not panicking or are they currently skipping this generation and just holding off and trying to be the first to release 16nm?

i will love to see another war for our money performed with high class buy the mining gear developers  ;D
Yeah well the monopoly of miners isn't helping anyone but Bitmain, when we have a good competition not just the miners win but the entire bitcoin ecosystem.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 19, 2015, 02:50:17 PM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)
No. Forgot 21
So any reason to why your HQ is not panicking or are they currently skipping this generation and just holding off and trying to be the first to release 16nm?

i will love to see another war for our money performed with high class buy the mining gear developers  ;D
Yeah well the monopoly of miners isn't helping anyone but Bitmain, when we have a good competition not just the miners win but the entire bitcoin ecosystem.

With this release, it looks like Bitmain becomes the solo monopoly or was it already?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 02:53:44 PM
Congratulations. Outstanding Achievement at this point of the game.
I would pay a lot to be a fly at BitFury's and KNC's HQ right now ...

 ;D

... so, no panic in your HQ right now?  ;)
No. Forgot 21
So any reason to why your HQ is not panicking or are they currently skipping this generation and just holding off and trying to be the first to release 16nm?

i will love to see another war for our money performed with high class buy the mining gear developers  ;D
Yeah well the monopoly of miners isn't helping anyone but Bitmain, when we have a good competition not just the miners win but the entire bitcoin ecosystem.

With this release, it looks like Bitmain becomes the solo monopoly or was it already?
There were some competitors but it seemed they all had sold out or finished making them for some reason, this miner without any others announced will lead Bitmain to be the one and only top of the line.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 19, 2015, 02:56:19 PM
With this release, it looks like Bitmain becomes the solo monopoly or was it already?

For home/small miner market - pretty much yes. Spondoolies - with all due respect - aren't selling anything, BitFury deals in the PH/s range, and others don't seem to have anything to compete even with the S5, not to mention this new thing.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Xircom on August 19, 2015, 03:03:16 PM
This is just what we hear in public. I'm aware of a scrypt miner being produced in a joint venture by som large farms that is finished making the chips but at the stage of producing the miner now. This miner is 125Mhash with 500 Watt power use. So my believe is that other firms besides Bitmain do already have and mine with 0,216 or even lower, but Bitmain is the only one making the public business.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: amelen on August 19, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
Looking good! No eta on the actual sale of the S7 I assume, right?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 03:10:02 PM
This is just what we hear in public. I'm aware of a scrypt miner being produced in a joint venture by som large farms that is finished making the chips but at the stage of producing the miner now. This miner is 125Mhash with 500 Watt power use. So my believe is that other firms besides Bitmain do already have and mine with 0,216 or even lower, but Bitmain is the only one making the public business.
That would be quite terrifying to the scrypt hashrate, hopefully this isn't the case and they do sell those miners to the public.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Finksy on August 19, 2015, 03:12:40 PM
Excellent.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3763354/mr-burns-excellent-o.gif


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 19, 2015, 03:24:19 PM
Time to save coin, and PACMiC v2 will have expired and paid back just in time for some more coin to purchase S7's! 

You see what they're doing there? We mine / make coin, buy on Hashnest, use profits to buy more hardware to mine / make coin, and repeat! LOL


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 03:25:51 PM
Time to save coin, and PACMiC v2 will have expired and paid back just in time for some more coin to purchase S7's! 

You see what they're doing there? We mine / make coin, buy on Hashnest, use profits to buy more hardware to mine / make coin, and repeat! LOL
Watch out nothing is easy free money forever, I would keep my wits about me and make sure to not get too attached to PACMiC.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 19, 2015, 03:31:27 PM
Time to save coin, and PACMiC v2 will have expired and paid back just in time for some more coin to purchase S7's!  

You see what they're doing there? We mine / make coin, buy on Hashnest, use profits to buy more hardware to mine / make coin, and repeat! LOL
Watch out nothing is easy free money forever, I would keep my wits about me and make sure to not get too attached to PACMiC.
You're right about that.  By the time these miners come out it may be time to rethink entering another version of PACMiC.

But, with that being said this announcement is still great news!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: chiguireitor on August 19, 2015, 03:31:51 PM
As a satisfied Bitmain customer, i only have one request for you Bitmain:

Make the S7 heatsink backwards compatible with the S5 and S3.

So in the tropic one can still use the same liquid cooling block i'm designing :) kthxbai


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: jelin1984 on August 19, 2015, 03:44:29 PM
make it as cheap as you can


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 03:49:34 PM
make it as cheap as you can
Heh yeah I am sure they are going to do that with all of the competition breathing down their necks.

(just incase you didn't notice /s)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 19, 2015, 03:50:14 PM
make it as cheap as you can

And then sell it for substantial markup.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 03:53:44 PM
make it as cheap as you can

And then sell it for substantial markup.
Don't worry once they stop having non stop sells they will tweak it and add a little + sign to it and make it cost substantially more.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: DebitMe on August 19, 2015, 03:59:25 PM
Nicely done Bitmain.  Good news on the new release and the hash power to electricity usage is superb.  Keep up the good work, excited to see the final miner that uses these.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Meech on August 19, 2015, 04:13:09 PM
Congrats!  Since your staying on the 28nm process can we expect reasonable prices? 
Hope your close to delivery, the end of this year could be a battleground again with actual products.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: olcaytu2005 on August 19, 2015, 04:14:18 PM
Then s4 and the lowers are just trash? Technology grows expeditiously so i will wait for s8 or s9. Coz i believe s7 will be trash the next year


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Biodom on August 19, 2015, 04:54:04 PM
BITMAIN launches the 4th generation bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
 32.5GH/s per chip, 0.216W/GH/s with 0.66V core voltage


Chip & Miner Power Efficiency Comparison
BM1380BM1382BM1384BM1385
Produced inQ4 2013Q2 2014Q4 2014Q3 2015
Primary model used inAntMiner S1AntMiner S3+AntMiner S5AntMiner S7
At the wall power consumption2000W/TH800W/TH510W/TH230W/TH


Where is
                                   Antminer S3++
                                   Antminer S4
                                   Antminer S4+
                                   Antminer S5+


Could also come S7+ or S7++ ?

you forget that every single model that has came out has had a chart that showed much better j/ghs rate then the machine has actually produced..

hopefully 230w/th doesnt end up 400w/th :(



as far as I remember the power consumption was exactly as stated here 2W/Th for S1, 0.8 for S3 and 0.51 for S5.
You are probably referring to the theoretical curve using 9V that they showed for S5, but they abandoned it later on and S5 does indeed consume 0.51W/Th.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Biodom on August 19, 2015, 04:59:11 PM
Time to start saving coin

I like this reply best.

I am glad that:

a) I did not crack and buy the s-5++
b) I grabbed some coin when prices dropped yesterday.

I also did not buy S5+ as there was no immediate appeal, but I will not buy any more coins until it is the time to pay up-who knows what other ridiculousness might still come out of the current debacle.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Rabinovitch on August 19, 2015, 05:06:55 PM
I am waiting now for the test S7 unit to prove anyone that it's real and it's excellent.  ::)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 05:22:53 PM
I am waiting now for the test S7 unit to prove anyone that it's real and it's excellent.  ::)
It's bitmain there is no reason to believe it wouldn't be real they have pushed out at least over 10 products without a single fake one, rumor is the non flagship L1 was even real and just sold out to a private buyer.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 19, 2015, 06:01:05 PM
Then s4 and the lowers are just trash? Technology grows expeditiously so i will wait for s8 or s9. Coz i believe s7 will be trash the next year

Not trash they will just go to a place with lower electricity prices.   It's hard to say when it will happen.

Guess we will see once a product hits the market with chips.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Finksy on August 19, 2015, 06:10:44 PM
Yes, please send me your no good leftover S4's.  I'll even pay for shipping and you can keep the PSU  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Pt0x on August 19, 2015, 06:17:06 PM
Then s4 and the lowers are just trash? Technology grows expeditiously so i will wait for s8 or s9. Coz i believe s7 will be trash the next year

In my country you could sell those for 850$ easily right now.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Gyrsur on August 19, 2015, 06:24:22 PM
very nice!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: chiguireitor on August 19, 2015, 06:42:17 PM
...

In my country you could sell those for 850$ easily right now.

Hey my homie chiming in!!!

Yeah, even S3 are productive here on our country!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: chitolsp on August 19, 2015, 06:54:25 PM
...

In my country you could sell those for 850$ easily right now.

Hey my homie chiming in!!!

Yeah, even S3 are productive here on our country!

hahaha, you mean even S2 are productive here!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 06:56:12 PM
...

In my country you could sell those for 850$ easily right now.

Hey my homie chiming in!!!

Yeah, even S3 are productive here on our country!

hahaha, you mean even S2 are productive here!
Brazil or another resource rich country? I have heard that south america has some really cheap power but in those countries to using the miners for warming as it's warm there all year around right?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 19, 2015, 07:12:21 PM
0,216*1.0638 (ideal string design + platinum PSU at peak 94% efficiency) = 0.23
This 230W at wall is to idealistic. Real world numbers will be 250-260W/TH.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 19, 2015, 07:20:10 PM
My expectation is an S1-formfactor machine pulling 2.3TH and about 590W wall, based on their numbers and a few assumptions about their numbers.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alh on August 19, 2015, 07:24:08 PM
My expectation is an S1-formfactor machine pulling 2.3TH and about 590W wall, based on their numbers and a few assumptions about their numbers.

So in short, a "double speed" S5, with everything else more or less constant?

I guess I should exclude price from the constant part as well.  :)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 07:31:13 PM
My expectation is an S1-formfactor machine pulling 2.3TH and about 590W wall, based on their numbers and a few assumptions about their numbers.

So in short, a "double speed" S5, with everything else more or less constant?

I guess I should exclude price from the constant part as well.  :)
Well wouldn't that just be nice? I don't think they would use some of their profits from the earlier models to pay for the R&D themselves though.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 19, 2015, 07:46:01 PM
Yeah that does work out to right at twice an S5. Huh. That's figuring a 2x18 string (to get about 670mV nodes) for 36 chips per board; if 32.5GH and 0.216W/GH all happen at that point we get 1170GH and 253W per blade. So we're looking at 2340GH and 506W board-level; add about 25W for fan and controller, divide by 0.9 for a typical PSU and you're looking at 590W

They might do something different, or the one performance datapoint we have might be cobbled from different setpoints. Like I said, it's a guess based on several assumptions. I'm looking forward to seeing more info, like one of those chip-level performance charts they posted at the start of the S5 thread.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: BTC_ISTANBUL on August 19, 2015, 07:50:14 PM
The news are great.When will the S7 be on market?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: crazyearner on August 19, 2015, 08:02:36 PM
This is sure going to be ome insane diff spikes in the coming months ahead with the new 7TH miners coming out will be a tough call to produce some RIO on equipment. Bye bye the old days of having 60GH and then 200GH to make 1 BTC a day. To make  BTC a day now you need aprox 110TH compared to 2013 and 2014 is a massive spike to push the home user to generate anywhere near that you need own co-location for that sort amount of power. Would need at least 15 of the new 7TH units without any diff jumps to be in with a chance. With 7TH now your able to maybe brake 2BTC a month or just under with diff changes every few weeks. Wonder what the price in BTC is going to be for the units and with the current price of BTC is going to also be interesting too.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 19, 2015, 08:21:08 PM
This is sure going to be ome insane diff spikes in the coming months ahead with the new 7TH miners coming out will be a tough call to produce some RIO on equipment. Bye bye the old days of having 60GH and then 200GH to make 1 BTC a day. To make  BTC a day now you need aprox 110TH compared to 2013 and 2014 is a massive spike to push the home user to generate anywhere near that you need own co-location for that sort amount of power. Would need at least 15 of the new 7TH units without any diff jumps to be in with a chance. With 7TH now your able to maybe brake 2BTC a month or just under with diff changes every few weeks. Wonder what the price in BTC is going to be for the units and with the current price of BTC is going to also be interesting too.
There weren't as many people mining back then as there are now, miners fly off the shelves, new users are mining every day and there is still only 25 coins a block to go around.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: crazyearner on August 19, 2015, 09:04:58 PM
This is sure going to be ome insane diff spikes in the coming months ahead with the new 7TH miners coming out will be a tough call to produce some RIO on equipment. Bye bye the old days of having 60GH and then 200GH to make 1 BTC a day. To make  BTC a day now you need aprox 110TH compared to 2013 and 2014 is a massive spike to push the home user to generate anywhere near that you need own co-location for that sort amount of power. Would need at least 15 of the new 7TH units without any diff jumps to be in with a chance. With 7TH now your able to maybe brake 2BTC a month or just under with diff changes every few weeks. Wonder what the price in BTC is going to be for the units and with the current price of BTC is going to also be interesting too.
There weren't as many people mining back then as there are now, miners fly off the shelves, new users are mining every day and there is still only 25 coins a block to go around.

Might be more miners but more corporate company's dominate in buying up everything and making us home miners get nothing in return like good old days. They was many miners around then as their is today just more people mine on different coins now. Even with more hash coming out per unit and being a good price will indeed attract more people to the mining filed without first adding up all the facts first.

Anyway mining is done for unless your in the race and have enough to make good or theirs no point buying a few units as will never pay off. Best investment now days is, buying coin, holding them and riding the waves, than to put into equipment that is going to be a paper weight in a few months time, even if it brakes even the cost is shocking at almost 10BTC for 1 7.7TH unit kicking 3436W of energy per unit. RIO will take to break even: 273.83 Day(s) and that is based of current market price and if it was to go up in price no doubt the RIO time will come down but still too much risk for little return. If market was close to $300 a bitcoin then you would look to 189 days for RIO but that has got some serious work to get it back anywhere near what it was.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: amelen on August 19, 2015, 09:11:58 PM
This is sure going to be ome insane diff spikes in the coming months ahead with the new 7TH miners coming out will be a tough call to produce some RIO on equipment. Bye bye the old days of having 60GH and then 200GH to make 1 BTC a day. To make  BTC a day now you need aprox 110TH compared to 2013 and 2014 is a massive spike to push the home user to generate anywhere near that you need own co-location for that sort amount of power. Would need at least 15 of the new 7TH units without any diff jumps to be in with a chance. With 7TH now your able to maybe brake 2BTC a month or just under with diff changes every few weeks. Wonder what the price in BTC is going to be for the units and with the current price of BTC is going to also be interesting too.
There weren't as many people mining back then as there are now, miners fly off the shelves, new users are mining every day and there is still only 25 coins a block to go around.

Might be more miners but more corporate company's dominate in buying up everything and making us home miners get nothing in return like good old days. They was many miners around then as their is today just more people mine on different coins now. Even with more hash coming out per unit and being a good price will indeed attract more people to the mining filed without first adding up all the facts first.

Anyway mining is done for unless your in the race and have enough to make good or theirs no point buying a few units as will never pay off. Best investment now days is, buying coin, holding them and riding the waves, than to put into equipment that is going to be a paper weight in a few months time, even if it brakes even the cost is shocking at almost 10BTC for 1 7.7TH unit kicking 3436W of energy per unit. RIO will take to break even: 273.83 Day(s) and that is based of current market price and if it was to go up in price no doubt the RIO time will come down but still too much risk for little return. If market was close to $300 a bitcoin then you would look to 189 days for RIO but that has got some serious work to get it back anywhere near what it was.

The math makes sense - I think it's always been about that long to break-even, at least in recent months. Oh, and I think you mean ROI (return on investment), not RIO :)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 19, 2015, 10:47:38 PM
0,216*1.0638 (ideal string design + platinum PSU at peak 94% efficiency) = 0.23
This 230W at wall is to idealistic. Real world numbers will be 250-260W/TH.

230W is at the wall, it includes PSU and any other inefficiencies. They've not been wrong on the previous 3 generations so I'm not sure why they'd get it wrong now.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 19, 2015, 10:54:36 PM
0,216*1.0638 (ideal string design + platinum PSU at peak 94% efficiency) = 0.23
This 230W at wall is to idealistic. Real world numbers will be 250-260W/TH.

230W is at the wall, it includes PSU and any other inefficiencies. They've not been wrong on the previous 3 generations so I'm not sure why they'd get it wrong now.

What's the PSU efficiency assumed in the calculation? How far in advance before producing actual miners have they announced the previous 3 (perhaps you meant 2) generations of chips?

Nevermind, I'm too blind for Bitmain's fine print.

Bitmain had to backpedal on S3 specs and they issued a compensation for Batch 1 purchases - so that's 2 out of 3 as far as not being wrong.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: edonkey on August 19, 2015, 10:55:19 PM
Oh, and I think you mean ROI (return on investment), not RIO :)

First comes ROI, then off to RIO ;)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: TheRealSteve on August 19, 2015, 11:46:24 PM
What's the PSU efficiency assumed in the calculation? How far in advance before producing actual miners have they announced the previous 3 (perhaps you meant 2) generations of chips?

See bottom-left corner of the first image: https://i.imgur.com/MJXUU3c.png


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 19, 2015, 11:56:05 PM
What's the PSU efficiency assumed in the calculation? How far in advance before producing actual miners have they announced the previous 3 (perhaps you meant 2) generations of chips?

See bottom-left corner of the first image: https://i.imgur.com/MJXUU3c.png

Dang it, that's the smallest of small prints  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 19, 2015, 11:56:19 PM
I know the BM1380 was talked about before they started selling the S1, because everyone saw their numbers and thought it was a scam (comparing to ASICMiner's 10W/GH and such at the time). BM1384 were announced concurrently with the S5. Not sure about BM1382 and S3 announcements though.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: chiguireitor on August 19, 2015, 11:59:44 PM
...

Brazil or another resource rich country? I have heard that south america has some really cheap power but in those countries to using the miners for warming as it's warm there all year around right?

Look at my signature for a hint on what country are we talking about ;)

The S7 is going to be insanely popular right here...


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 20, 2015, 12:00:06 AM
I know the BM1380 was talked about before they started selling the S1, because everyone saw their numbers and thought it was a scam (comparing to ASICMiner's 10W/GH and such at the time). BM1384 were announced concurrently with the S5. Not sure about BM1382 and S3 announcements though.

12 days:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.msg7597300#msg7597300


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: itop_james on August 20, 2015, 12:08:22 AM
 (http://www.itop-corp.com)http://www.itop-corp.com/asset/cache/__h64__/internal/logo.png
I know the BM1380 was talked about before they started selling the S1, because everyone saw their numbers and thought it was a scam (comparing to ASICMiner's 10W/GH and such at the time). BM1384 were announced concurrently with the S5. Not sure about BM1382 and S3 announcements though.

12 days:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.msg7597300#msg7597300


that make sense ,will be glad to see the S7 in 12 days .


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 20, 2015, 01:48:46 AM
(http://www.itop-corp.com)http://www.itop-corp.com/asset/cache/__h64__/internal/logo.png
I know the BM1380 was talked about before they started selling the S1, because everyone saw their numbers and thought it was a scam (comparing to ASICMiner's 10W/GH and such at the time). BM1384 were announced concurrently with the S5. Not sure about BM1382 and S3 announcements though.

12 days:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=656461.msg7597300#msg7597300


that make sense ,will be glad to see the S7 in 12 days .
Would be sweet! In hand by September aw yeahhh


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: valkir on August 20, 2015, 02:44:20 AM
1 September will be a perfect day!  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: edonkey on August 20, 2015, 03:27:27 AM
1 September will be a perfect day!  ;D

More likely "the first week of September", but yeah, we can dream...


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Meech on August 20, 2015, 03:41:35 AM
I see a lot of guesses of the release of the S7 but don't recall any about possible hashrate of it.  I can run the numbers too but I'm sure someone has some insight on what will be released.  In the past they only release one type of miner at a time, but they would benefit greatly in sales if they could manage two different models at launch.  It would be cool to have a 1th unit and a 5+th unit.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 20, 2015, 03:55:40 AM
I see a lot of guesses of the release of the S7 but don't recall any about possible hashrate of it.  I can run the numbers too but I'm sure someone has some insight on what will be released.  In the past they only release one type of miner at a time, but they would benefit greatly in sales if they could manage two different models at launch.  It would be cool to have a 1th unit and a 5+th unit.

This would not be the normal model.  Normally they release a smaller unit the odd number.  Then after a while they can make buzz with a new miner that is even number with bigger hashrate and a little better efficiency.

I would be really surprised if we get lucky enough to get both released at once.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 20, 2015, 08:39:57 AM
0,216*1.0638 (ideal string design + platinum PSU at peak 94% efficiency) = 0.23
This 230W at wall is to idealistic. Real world numbers will be 250-260W/TH.

230W is at the wall, it includes PSU and any other inefficiencies. They've not been wrong on the previous 3 generations so I'm not sure why they'd get it wrong now.

What's the PSU efficiency assumed in the calculation? How far in advance before producing actual miners have they announced the previous 3 (perhaps you meant 2) generations of chips?

Nevermind, I'm too blind for Bitmain's fine print.

Bitmain had to backpedal on S3 specs and they issued a compensation for Batch 1 purchases - so that's 2 out of 3 as far as not being wrong.

That wasn't chips, that was inappropriate DC-DC which made it unstable for 24/7 use.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: goxed on August 20, 2015, 01:36:54 PM
Great news!! Waiting for Antminer S7!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: generalt on August 20, 2015, 01:55:41 PM
Can't wait to find out the pricing for these.  I'm guessing they're not going to be cheap though.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Chris_Sabian on August 20, 2015, 02:38:37 PM
It will be interesting to see what the price is going to be.  The next halving in going to take place in a year so that will really hurt the bottom line for everyone.  Any possible ideas for a fair price?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 20, 2015, 02:42:29 PM
It will be interesting to see what the price is going to be.  The next halving in going to take place in a year so that will really hurt the bottom line for everyone.  Any possible ideas for a fair price?

if this gear is sold earlier then OCT 1  the July 2016 halving is pretty much a non issue.

as you would have

OCT
NOV
DEC
JAN
FEB
MAR
APR
MAY
JUN 

 9 FULL Months   before July halving.

As to a fair price  they have been pricing gear to break even in 250 days at 10 cent power.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 20, 2015, 02:45:54 PM
Consider that, if they and others start shipping better gear and there is still a fair bit of viable existing gear, the diff will continue to increase which pushes the halving that much closer.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Chris_Sabian on August 20, 2015, 02:49:50 PM
It will be interesting to see what the price is going to be.  The next halving in going to take place in a year so that will really hurt the bottom line for everyone.  Any possible ideas for a fair price?

if this gear is sold earlier then OCT 1  the July 2016 halving is pretty much a non issue.

as you would have

OCT
NOV
DEC
JAN
FEB
MAR
APR
MAY
JUN 

 9 FULL Months   before July halving.

As to a fair price  they have been pricing gear to break even in 250 days at 10 cent power.



I just did a quick calculations and with those numbers it looks like ~2 bitcoin per TH/s.  I used 1 Th/s with 230 watts and 10 cent power.  That would just be for the miner.  Would you consider shipping with base price?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 20, 2015, 03:42:17 PM
0,216*1.0638 (ideal string design + platinum PSU at peak 94% efficiency) = 0.23
This 230W at wall is to idealistic. Real world numbers will be 250-260W/TH.

230W is at the wall, it includes PSU and any other inefficiencies. They've not been wrong on the previous 3 generations so I'm not sure why they'd get it wrong now.

What's the PSU efficiency assumed in the calculation? How far in advance before producing actual miners have they announced the previous 3 (perhaps you meant 2) generations of chips?

Nevermind, I'm too blind for Bitmain's fine print.

Bitmain had to backpedal on S3 specs and they issued a compensation for Batch 1 purchases - so that's 2 out of 3 as far as not being wrong.

That wasn't chips, that was inappropriate DC-DC which made it unstable for 24/7 use.

Same difference for the end user. It did change J/GH at the wall, so it's not inconceivable that 230W could turn into 250W for the S7 as well.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: jmelnick on August 20, 2015, 04:05:47 PM
considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mazedk on August 20, 2015, 04:10:38 PM
considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.

Which we havent seen actual proof of have we? - and, if they do, its not going to be commonly available to the mortals


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 20, 2015, 04:40:04 PM
considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.

It rather feels like a urban legend, lol.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Chris_Sabian on August 20, 2015, 04:42:17 PM
considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.

Which we havent seen actual proof of have we? - and, if they do, its not going to be commonly available to the mortals

If Bitmain wasn't going to sell miners to 'home' users, then why even make the announcement?  I'm sure that Bitmain already has several large 'professional' accounts that would really like to buy the newest chips. 


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 20, 2015, 05:55:51 PM
considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.

Which we havent seen actual proof of have we? - and, if they do, its not going to be commonly available to the mortals

If Bitmain wasn't going to sell miners to 'home' users, then why even make the announcement?  I'm sure that Bitmain already has several large 'professional' accounts that would really like to buy the newest chips. 



I agree even KNC didn't announce like this .

 SO the S7 is coming soon its looking good at 230W/TH AntMiner S7 wonder what the TH per miner will be maybe 2.2TH ? .
and cost .


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 20, 2015, 05:59:19 PM
considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.

It rather feels like a urban legend, lol.
I would say it leans on that side for sure, in this industry it is put up or shut up. We have heard fancy numbers since day one of the forum and been burnt a lot.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: lucky1974 on August 20, 2015, 06:30:49 PM
“We anticipate that before we release our full-custom 16 nanometer chip, the BM1385 will continue to be the industry standard for the bitcoin mining industry,” said Bitmain co-founder Wu Jihan. “We will continue to strive for more efficiency and lower costs for our customers.”

and the S7 IS NOT THE 16nm full customized chip so I am still going to wait.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 20, 2015, 06:46:27 PM
“We anticipate that before we release our full-custom 16 nanometer chip, the BM1385 will continue to be the industry standard for the bitcoin mining industry,” said Bitmain co-founder Wu Jihan. “We will continue to strive for more efficiency and lower costs for our customers.”

and the S7 IS NOT THE 16nm full customized chip so I am still going to wait.


They aren't going to cannibalize their own products, unless another company pushes 16nm they will wait to release it until this cycle has sold a ton of units.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mazedk on August 20, 2015, 06:50:02 PM
“We anticipate that before we release our full-custom 16 nanometer chip, the BM1385 will continue to be the industry standard for the bitcoin mining industry,” said Bitmain co-founder Wu Jihan. “We will continue to strive for more efficiency and lower costs for our customers.”

and the S7 IS NOT THE 16nm full customized chip so I am still going to wait.



16nm is bling bling expensive. And, why kick themselves in the nuts by going to fast forward - they still do well with 28nm.


considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.

Which we havent seen actual proof of have we? - and, if they do, its not going to be commonly available to the mortals

If Bitmain wasn't going to sell miners to 'home' users, then why even make the announcement?  I'm sure that Bitmain already has several large 'professional' accounts that would really like to buy the newest chips. 

Sure they do, but i'd be willing to bet they havent taped out on 16nm yet. So sure, these chips are possibly already in large scale production - or very very close - but they need to bring the little people in aswell, thats where they make the most profit per sold miner - hense fund their future R&D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: adaseb on August 20, 2015, 08:24:48 PM
So I guess people in Europe or other places with high KWH prices will be able to jump back into mining I guess.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 20, 2015, 08:36:08 PM
So I guess people in Europe or other places with high KWH prices will be able to jump back into mining I guess.



I don't know if this is true a lot will upgrade to new efficient gear eventually.  So you would still compete with others with same disadvantage of high electricity prices.

What will happen is old gear gets sold to miners in cheaper electricity areas.  So most stay's on network.    I would be surprised if even a new chip allows high electrical places to ROI.  But I hope I'm wrong on that.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: RoadStress on August 20, 2015, 08:43:23 PM
Nice achievement! Grats.

Edit: Nice reference towards 21e6 :)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: SFMiner on August 20, 2015, 10:09:53 PM
Congrats on the efficiency at 28nm!

Any chance you can use fans that don't double as jet engines on the S7?  Because I'd love to fill my apartment with these, and that just wasn't possible with the S5.  Any chance of a return to the airflow and chassis of the S1/S3?



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alienesb on August 20, 2015, 10:20:43 PM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 20, 2015, 10:24:14 PM
Congrats on the efficiency at 28nm!

Any chance you can use fans that don't double as jet engines on the S7?  Because I'd love to fill my apartment with these, and that just wasn't possible with the S5.  Any chance of a return to the airflow and chassis of the S1/S3?


Use a push and pull method, similar to the S5 fan mods that made them acceptable for use in apartments. That is why I am hoping the design hasn't changed at all.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: rkinnin on August 20, 2015, 10:26:01 PM
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.

I would be interested in learning more about PacMIC from those who have tried it out.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 20, 2015, 10:31:22 PM
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.

I would be interested in learning more about PacMIC from those who have tried it out.


It's a low interest loan to Bitmain, with the added risk (albeit small) of a loss in case the S5 becomes unprofitable. There is nothing interesting about it.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 20, 2015, 10:34:40 PM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 20, 2015, 10:37:41 PM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 20, 2015, 11:05:15 PM
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.

I would be interested in learning more about PacMIC from those who have tried it out.



I have 15th in PacMIC v3  my cost was 9.99 btc  If it all works and nothing goes wrong I will see about 10.25 to 10.40 btc  a profit of .26 to .40 on 9.99 btc
do I think you should buy 9.99 btc = 15th ? no  you should buy what you can afford to lose. you should buy 3 times one day apart if you do decide to buy.

I purchase 13 contracts over 6 days time. they add to 9.99 btc 15th I have been paid back about .68 btc as of the screen shot below

http://i.imgur.com/XwQ8bzY.png


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 20, 2015, 11:28:36 PM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alienesb on August 20, 2015, 11:34:38 PM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

That's silly, there is still plenty of life left in the miner and it's a way to transfer risk. I'd never sell them as new and everyone knows what they are getting into. I have an a2 I bought used and have been running it since November; I don't feel ripped off and why should I? Is it wrong to generate some income now? Should we all just hold?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 20, 2015, 11:43:46 PM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

That's silly, there is still plenty of life left in the miner and it's a way to transfer risk. I'd never sell them as new and everyone knows what they are getting into. I have an a2 I bought used and have been running it since November; I don't feel ripped off and why should I? Is it wrong to generate some income now? Should we all just hold?

We little guys did not make flat diff happen.

Although I did write a long detailed thread about asic/builders freezing diff to ensure profit. So maybe they use my idea.

Not sure if is so bad or good.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 21, 2015, 12:55:59 AM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

Not only flat diff but also Bitcoin exchange rate created a lot of weird price fluctuations over the last 9-12 months.

Selling used as "new" - bad. Selling used as "used" between two mutually consenting adults - perfectly fine. It's not like it's some kind of a black market drug trade. Anyone can google up whether they are getting ripped off or not.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 21, 2015, 12:58:08 AM
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 21, 2015, 01:09:07 AM
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

That's an oversimplified argument. The price is mostly based on the EXPECTATION of revenue, which could be influenced by a lot of factors, such as buyer's power costs vs seller's power costs etc. If the buyer can extract more use out of that hardware than alienesb - more power to him/her, pun intended.

Them chips are great with salsa.

Seriously though, I'd be more interested in the specs of an actual S7. This pre-announcement sounds like an attempt to preempt something and is quite useless for an end user like myself.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mudiko on August 21, 2015, 01:19:50 AM
When is the price going to be released?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: takagari on August 21, 2015, 04:54:34 AM
But when will have an actionable 10th miner?!?!?!?!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: HorseRider on August 21, 2015, 05:01:22 AM
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

That's an oversimplified argument. The price is mostly based on the EXPECTATION of revenue, which could be influenced by a lot of factors, such as buyer's power costs vs seller's power costs etc. If the buyer can extract more use out of that hardware than alienesb - more power to him/her, pun intended.

Them chips are great with salsa.

Seriously though, I'd be more interested in the specs of an actual S7. This pre-announcement sounds like an attempt to preempt something and is quite useless for an end user like myself.

Yes, the power cost can be a great influence. Sometimes a zero worth of junk miner for you, is something that can generate very good cash flow , and is money printing machines. So selling the used miners at the right timing and to the right buyer is a kind of art.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: chiguireitor on August 21, 2015, 11:20:23 AM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Ssssh.... don't reveal the secret.....

EDIT: I usually put some added value to my sales btw, that makes sale easier and you end up having a happy relationship with the buyer, with more sales waiting to happen in the future.

I apply Bitmain's technique: Sell the stuff at 4-5x the earnings of a month with a 0-electricity cost. However, i usually add a PSU and some training on proper handling and care of the device, as i usually sell them in BETTER condition than bitmain does.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: ziomar on August 21, 2015, 11:28:23 AM
Do you think the price will be more like above 1000 USD or below, like s5?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: brontosaurus on August 21, 2015, 11:52:50 AM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 21, 2015, 12:09:15 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: brontosaurus on August 21, 2015, 12:25:13 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Thats why you employ people that know what they are doing and use MPW runs. Not rocket science, is it?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: brontosaurus on August 21, 2015, 12:26:13 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'????


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 21, 2015, 01:07:56 PM
waiting for the s7+ monster!!! 15th and 3kw ::)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: SockPuppetAccount on August 21, 2015, 01:16:29 PM
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

Huh?  I use the same strategy with my ASIC purchases and obviously there is a lot of guesswork and a little bit of luck involved, but I have profited off the S1, S3, S5, and SP20 by using this same strategy.  When I decide to sell my old gear, I do so based on what I paid for it, how quickly difficulty is rising, what I have mined so far, the season of the year (save on heating bill in winter), and the approximate going rate for the miner on the second hand market.  I list the miner on ebay at 0.01 cents with no reserve, offer free shipping, set it for a week, and thats it.  Knowingly misrepresenting a miner as new, something it isn't, higher performance or better condition than it is, etc are all bad things.  But if the free market is overvaluing mining gear at a particular moment in time, I'm stealing from someone if I sell it?  That doesn't make sense.  Some people have cheap or free electricity, some people dont care about ROI and it's just a toy for them, some people are simply making a poorly timed purchase because they don't know how to properly assess the value of the mining gear.  It doesn't matter.  As long as they are freely choosing to purchase the item and I am not misleading them, there is nothing wrong with it.  It's value is exactly what the free market will pay for it.   Sometimes the free market overvalues a product or service, sometimes the free market undervalues a product or service.  If you are able to accurately gauge the true value of an item better than the rest of the market, whether it is the ASIC market, stock market, or hell, the grocery market, you will gain anytime you are able to sell something while it is overvalued and buy something when it is undervalued.  This is just how a free market capitalistic economy and natural price discovery functions.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: HyperMega on August 21, 2015, 01:35:57 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'????

If Bitmain spend really nearly $10,000,000 NRE for this 28nm ASIC they either have very well paid designers or were completely robbed by TSMC for the masks.  ;)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: windpath on August 21, 2015, 02:10:20 PM
Time to start saving coin

I like this reply best.

I am glad that:

a) I did not crack and buy the s-5++
b) I grabbed some coin when prices dropped yesterday.

I like both A & B...

Between Bitmain, and whatever Spondoolies and 21 has up there sleeves, it looks like we are on track for some record difficulty increases again, and just before the halving....


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 21, 2015, 02:11:10 PM
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

Huh?  I use the same strategy with my ASIC purchases and obviously there is a lot of guesswork and a little bit of luck involved, but I have profited off the S1, S3, S5, and SP20 by using this same strategy.  When I decide to sell my old gear, I do so based on what I paid for it, how quickly difficulty is rising, what I have mined so far, the season of the year (save on heating bill in winter), and the approximate going rate for the miner on the second hand market.  I list the miner on ebay at 0.01 cents with no reserve, offer free shipping, set it for a week, and thats it.  Knowingly misrepresenting a miner as new, something it isn't, higher performance or better condition than it is, etc are all bad things.  But if the free market is overvaluing mining gear at a particular moment in time, I'm stealing from someone if I sell it?  That doesn't make sense.  Some people have cheap or free electricity, some people dont care about ROI and it's just a toy for them, some people are simply making a poorly timed purchase because they don't know how to properly assess the value of the mining gear.  It doesn't matter.  As long as they are freely choosing to purchase the item and I am not misleading them, there is nothing wrong with it.  It's value is exactly what the free market will pay for it.   Sometimes the free market overvalues a product or service, sometimes the free market undervalues a product or service.  If you are able to accurately gauge the true value of an item better than the rest of the market, whether it is the ASIC market, stock market, or hell, the grocery market, you will gain anytime you are able to sell something while it is overvalued and buy something when it is undervalued.  This is just how a free market capitalistic economy and natural price discovery functions.

Alright, maybe I should simplify a bit. Selling used miners at fair market value is good. In the past five months or so, with relatively flat diff, the FMV for something like the S5 has been relatively unchanged, so running one for five months and then selling it for new price actually works.
However, for the several years before then, and for the future probably starting within the next two months, the diff is not flat. So the current conditions are somewhat of an aberration.
The guy is saying the proper course of action has been, and will be, to buy a miner, run it, and sell it for approximately new price.
So let's say someone buys a $500 miner, expected breakeven about 9 months out with typical power cost. He then runs it for three months. The diff goes up 25% in that time (4% biweekly increase, historically fairly reasonable). He then tries to sell it for $500. Would not you assume he's a fool? Would not you assume anyone buying it would also be a fool? Would not the expected market value for that $500 machine have dropped, probably to below $400? With the exception of the past few months, this has been the case since the first day of ASIC mining (or FPGA mining, probably even GPU days). Depreciation keeps pace with diff increase (and is slowed by increasing coin price, but historically increasing coin price increases the diff even faster). Take a look at what S1 prices did in early 2013. Diff went way up really fast, coin prices went down, and the price for an S1 dropped about 90% in something like four months. You think my December S1 would have sold in March for the 4BTC paid for it, or more like 8BTC if priced in dollars? Only to a fool.

So I'd say that, in general, with some exceptions, someone who takes a sizeable chunk out of the viable life of a miner and then sells it at new price is not selling at expected fair market value, and someone that buys it probably didn't do his research to know he was being ripped off.

The point is not, and never has been, that selling secondhand hardware at fair market value is bad. The point is, and always has been, that successfully selling used hardware at well above market value is taking advantage of a fool, which is unethical. Implying that the proper strategy for making positive returns on mining is (and always has been) taking advantage of fools, well I like to think this community is better than that.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 21, 2015, 02:15:10 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'????

If Bitmain spend really nearly $10,000,000 NRE for this 28nm ASIC they either have very well paid designers or were completely robbed by TSMC for the masks.  ;)

I'm talking about smaller process nodes and in huge batches. Ie its a safer bet to get not quite as good 28nm performance then risk a lot on trying something new will full custom.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 21, 2015, 02:22:06 PM
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.
That isn't truly fair, if there is someone who believes in the altcoin or wants to try and gamble on a coin thinking they are Mr.Daytrader I don't thinking selling any altcoin is ripping somebody off. Now if you're a scumbag who sells 1 doge on ebay for 1$ then yeah you're being a scumbag and scamming people on eBay who don't understand what they are buying, but on an exchange they know the risk and you do to. (mining an altcoin that could easily drop in value is riskier)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alienesb on August 21, 2015, 02:34:09 PM
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

Huh?  I use the same strategy with my ASIC purchases and obviously there is a lot of guesswork and a little bit of luck involved, but I have profited off the S1, S3, S5, and SP20 by using this same strategy.  When I decide to sell my old gear, I do so based on what I paid for it, how quickly difficulty is rising, what I have mined so far, the season of the year (save on heating bill in winter), and the approximate going rate for the miner on the second hand market.  I list the miner on ebay at 0.01 cents with no reserve, offer free shipping, set it for a week, and thats it.  Knowingly misrepresenting a miner as new, something it isn't, higher performance or better condition than it is, etc are all bad things.  But if the free market is overvaluing mining gear at a particular moment in time, I'm stealing from someone if I sell it?  That doesn't make sense.  Some people have cheap or free electricity, some people dont care about ROI and it's just a toy for them, some people are simply making a poorly timed purchase because they don't know how to properly assess the value of the mining gear.  It doesn't matter.  As long as they are freely choosing to purchase the item and I am not misleading them, there is nothing wrong with it.  It's value is exactly what the free market will pay for it.   Sometimes the free market overvalues a product or service, sometimes the free market undervalues a product or service.  If you are able to accurately gauge the true value of an item better than the rest of the market, whether it is the ASIC market, stock market, or hell, the grocery market, you will gain anytime you are able to sell something while it is overvalued and buy something when it is undervalued.  This is just how a free market capitalistic economy and natural price discovery functions.

Alright, maybe I should simplify a bit. Selling used miners at fair market value is good. In the past five months or so, with relatively flat diff, the FMV for something like the S5 has been relatively unchanged, so running one for five months and then selling it for new price actually works.
However, for the several years before then, and for the future probably starting within the next two months, the diff is not flat. So the current conditions are somewhat of an aberration.
The guy is saying the proper course of action has been, and will be, to buy a miner, run it, and sell it for approximately new price.
So let's say someone buys a $500 miner, expected breakeven about 9 months out with typical power cost. He then runs it for three months. The diff goes up 25% in that time (4% biweekly increase, historically fairly reasonable). He then tries to sell it for $500. Would not you assume he's a fool? Would not you assume anyone buying it would also be a fool? Would not the expected market value for that $500 machine have dropped, probably to below $400? With the exception of the past few months, this has been the case since the first day of ASIC mining (or FPGA mining, probably even GPU days). Depreciation keeps pace with diff increase (and is slowed by increasing coin price, but historically increasing coin price increases the diff even faster). Take a look at what S1 prices did in early 2013. Diff went way up really fast, coin prices went down, and the price for an S1 dropped about 90% in something like four months. You think my December S1 would have sold in March for the 4BTC paid for it, or more like 8BTC if priced in dollars? Only to a fool.

So I'd say that, in general, with some exceptions, someone who takes a sizeable chunk out of the viable life of a miner and then sells it at new price is not selling at expected fair market value, and someone that buys it probably didn't do his research to know he was being ripped off.

The point is not, and never has been, that selling secondhand hardware at fair market value is bad. The point is, and always has been, that successfully selling used hardware at well above market value is taking advantage of a fool, which is unethical. Implying that the proper strategy for making positive returns on mining is (and always has been) taking advantage of fools, well I like to think this community is better than that.

So if a farmer buys a tractor and uses it a couple of seasons then decides to sell it, and because that tractor is no longer made but is still in demand, he manages to get just about what he paid for it back is that wrong too? It's supply and demand.

At one point Bitmain sold miners in the $340 range then at another they were selling for over $450ish and at times they just were not available. It's about percieved value to the buyer and that is not ripping someone off.

You have a rather jaded view of the secondary market. I bet there will be people selling your stick at higher than sticker price on eBay.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 21, 2015, 02:51:37 PM
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

Huh?  I use the same strategy with my ASIC purchases and obviously there is a lot of guesswork and a little bit of luck involved, but I have profited off the S1, S3, S5, and SP20 by using this same strategy.  When I decide to sell my old gear, I do so based on what I paid for it, how quickly difficulty is rising, what I have mined so far, the season of the year (save on heating bill in winter), and the approximate going rate for the miner on the second hand market.  I list the miner on ebay at 0.01 cents with no reserve, offer free shipping, set it for a week, and thats it.  Knowingly misrepresenting a miner as new, something it isn't, higher performance or better condition than it is, etc are all bad things.  But if the free market is overvaluing mining gear at a particular moment in time, I'm stealing from someone if I sell it?  That doesn't make sense.  Some people have cheap or free electricity, some people dont care about ROI and it's just a toy for them, some people are simply making a poorly timed purchase because they don't know how to properly assess the value of the mining gear.  It doesn't matter.  As long as they are freely choosing to purchase the item and I am not misleading them, there is nothing wrong with it.  It's value is exactly what the free market will pay for it.   Sometimes the free market overvalues a product or service, sometimes the free market undervalues a product or service.  If you are able to accurately gauge the true value of an item better than the rest of the market, whether it is the ASIC market, stock market, or hell, the grocery market, you will gain anytime you are able to sell something while it is overvalued and buy something when it is undervalued.  This is just how a free market capitalistic economy and natural price discovery functions.

Alright, maybe I should simplify a bit. Selling used miners at fair market value is good. In the past five months or so, with relatively flat diff, the FMV for something like the S5 has been relatively unchanged, so running one for five months and then selling it for new price actually works.
However, for the several years before then, and for the future probably starting within the next two months, the diff is not flat. So the current conditions are somewhat of an aberration.
The guy is saying the proper course of action has been, and will be, to buy a miner, run it, and sell it for approximately new price.
So let's say someone buys a $500 miner, expected breakeven about 9 months out with typical power cost. He then runs it for three months. The diff goes up 25% in that time (4% biweekly increase, historically fairly reasonable). He then tries to sell it for $500. Would not you assume he's a fool? Would not you assume anyone buying it would also be a fool? Would not the expected market value for that $500 machine have dropped, probably to below $400? With the exception of the past few months, this has been the case since the first day of ASIC mining (or FPGA mining, probably even GPU days). Depreciation keeps pace with diff increase (and is slowed by increasing coin price, but historically increasing coin price increases the diff even faster). Take a look at what S1 prices did in early 2013. Diff went way up really fast, coin prices went down, and the price for an S1 dropped about 90% in something like four months. You think my December S1 would have sold in March for the 4BTC paid for it, or more like 8BTC if priced in dollars? Only to a fool.

So I'd say that, in general, with some exceptions, someone who takes a sizeable chunk out of the viable life of a miner and then sells it at new price is not selling at expected fair market value, and someone that buys it probably didn't do his research to know he was being ripped off.

The point is not, and never has been, that selling secondhand hardware at fair market value is bad. The point is, and always has been, that successfully selling used hardware at well above market value is taking advantage of a fool, which is unethical. Implying that the proper strategy for making positive returns on mining is (and always has been) taking advantage of fools, well I like to think this community is better than that.

So if a farmer buys a tractor and uses it a couple of seasons then decides to sell it, and because that tractor is no longer made but is still in demand, he manages to get just about what he paid for it back is that wrong too? It's supply and demand.

At one point Bitmain sold miners in the $340 range then at another they were selling for over $450ish and at times they just were not available. It's about percieved value to the buyer and that is not ripping someone off.

You have a rather jaded view of the secondary market. I bet there will be people selling your stick at higher than sticker price on eBay.
I think it is more of an integrity thing and in the Bitcoin world we so much scamming and deceiving he has just become tired of it, which I understand and is totally against any forms of either making money for nothing or second hand selling for profit but like you said it is a case of supply and demand so I get both sides of it but I think Bitmain has more supply than they let on and self mine is the true issue.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: flikflak on August 21, 2015, 03:08:29 PM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 21, 2015, 03:13:42 PM
If another reputable manufacturer makes a tractor with 2 more cylinders, an air-conditioned cab and burns less fuel for the same amount of work, and sells it new at the same price the farmer wants for his, which would you recommend someone buy? If the market value of the used tractor is now 2/3 what he paid new, and he asks new price for it, would you buy it?

If, however, the several-year-old tractor is pretty much exactly equivalent to current offerings, your comparison falls into the market conditions of the last few months and is therefore irrelevant to the argument as a whole since the last few months' conditions are not representative of the market so far, nor the expected market in the future. You might look instead at the time depreciation of miner prices between early 2013 and early 2015, which instead of being a bad analogy of the argument, is the actual argument.

When Bitmain raised the S5 price from $320 to $420 in a day, did you see anyone at all happy that they'd readjusted their prices to what customers thought was more fair, or was literally everyone complaining about being ripped off?

Anyone who wants to buy one of my sticks from me at what I consider a fair price is welcome to do so. Anyone who instead buys from a reseller will probably still get a decent deal; if not, a little bit of looking will lead them to a better price and anyone asking for grossly more than fair market [for profit, not expenses] will not have my endorsement. Even if the reseller market determines they can be sold for more than the $25 I'm asking, my price will not change. But considering that my sticks, even at the best price I the manufacturer can offer, will not produce a positive return (and that is not their intention), the point is erroneous.

I hate greed, and I hate opportunism. I know it's the way of the world (and especially the bitcoin economy) but that doesn't make it right.

What I'm really annoyed by right now is that we're arguing two different points. People keep insisting on counterexamples where the fair market value of the object is retained, but my argument is that, for most of the history of ASIC sales and for the perceived future, the fair market value depreciates rapidly and therefore selling depreciated hardware (probably to someone unaware of the market value) without a reduced price is wrong (by taking advantage of the unaware purchaser). Just because depreciation stalled in the last few months (compared to the two full years before it, and the expected future) doesn't mean a strategy that works right now has been by any means a fair strategy thus far in the game, or will continue to be so. If you haven't comprehended that by now, you're never going to.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: WBF1 on August 21, 2015, 04:21:29 PM
...taking advantage of the unaware purchaser...

Lots of different sectors of the economy rely on scarcity of information or unwillingness of consumers to shop around. Off the top of my head, I can think of auto mechanics (not all of them obviously, but $80+ for an oil change with an extra $80 on top to replace the cabin air filter after they show you the external "dirty" side of it is a common scheme among the "drive thru" style oil change and maintenance shops), most things related to home maintenance and improvement (windows, doors, HVAC equip, roofing, etc), medical care, etc. Basically anything you cannot easily and readily do a cost comparison of is an industry that (at least from a sales aspect) relies on scarcity of information.

Put differently, they rely on the laziness of the consumer.

Sidehack I really like everything you have done and am excited to see what you come up with in the future, but you gotta realize that the price of goods is equal to what people are willing to pay for them. Full stop.

Am I advocating people try to rip off unknowing consumers? No. but I'm also not advocating overt hand-holding for the sake of "fairness". There's an aspect of Darwinism at play here I guess is what I'm arguing. If someone wants to "get rich quick" on this "bitcoin thingy" and is too lazy to do their research, then maybe they didn't "deserve" (from a survival of the fittest standpoint, not from a morality or "fairness" standpoint) to be sitting on a bunch of cash to begin with.

All that being said, being a white knight and pointing out bad deals and attempting to educate consumers is fair game as well.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: MidwestMiner on August 21, 2015, 04:39:51 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'????

If Bitmain spend really nearly $10,000,000 NRE for this 28nm ASIC they either have very well paid designers or were completely robbed by TSMC for the masks.  ;)

$10 million NRE is 16 nm costs ffs. Of course they didn't drop that on 28 nm Outside of development costs (time/staff) NRE for 28nm is sub $5 million with margin.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 21, 2015, 04:45:28 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'????

If Bitmain spend really nearly $10,000,000 NRE for this 28nm ASIC they either have very well paid designers or were completely robbed by TSMC for the masks.  ;)

$10 million NRE is 16 nm costs ffs. Of course they didn't drop that on 28 nm Outside of development costs (time/staff) NRE for 28nm is sub $5 million with margin.
Makes you wonder what the price of the first 16 nm miners are going to run to try and make up for the cost, I think 16 nm may be the end of the home miner for a couple of years.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: HyperMega on August 21, 2015, 05:05:38 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'????

If Bitmain spend really nearly $10,000,000 NRE for this 28nm ASIC they either have very well paid designers or were completely robbed by TSMC for the masks.  ;)

$10 million NRE is 16 nm costs ffs. Of course they didn't drop that on 28 nm Outside of development costs (time/staff) NRE for 28nm is sub $5 million with margin.

Of course, I was just kidding, because the "8 figure sum" was mentioned together with the risks of a 28nm custom design.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 21, 2015, 05:16:41 PM
WBF1 - if it explains my mindset a bit, my entire family are relatively self-sufficient (which is to say, employed or at least skilled in auto mechanics, construction, farming and other trades) Christians and tend to be both educated and educators. I'm very much in favor of treating people ethically whether they ask for that treatment or not. I'm in favor of helping people improve their stations rather than taking advantage of their lack of awareness. I'm in favor of people learning to do things for themselves rather than relying on others (who will, per your apt examples, likely seek opportunistic profit dishonestly). I will never not advocate for those things, and I will never endorse an action which results in profit through deliberate deception or fleecing the undereducated. I'm just as embarassed by the people making bad decisions because they wanted to "get rich quick" and didn't take time to properly research as I am by the people wanting to "get rich quick" and finding ways to capitalize on someone's lack of knowledge. The one is a fool, the other is a thief. So that's where I'm coming from when I say selling well above fair market value is unethical.



I wonder what machine prices for the future 14- and 16-nm stuff will be, given the high initial costs for chips and the increased cost due to low chip yields? As efficiency asymtotically approaches a practical minimum value, gear should be viable for longer periods especially if undervolting is commonplace. I expect to see low-clocked high-density 28nm machines still be very competitive with at least the first generation of top-clocked 14nm gear, based heavily on low initial cost rather than low operating costs. Increasing initial investment for chips by approximately an order of magnitude will definitely have a large effect on the resulting machine price. The questions's going to be the halving, and whether super-low-power gear is available before that occurs.

I really hope Bitmain lets out some sample chips for us to play with sometime soon.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tupsu on August 21, 2015, 05:30:21 PM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.

You want  standard ?
Let me give one free.

Tested. S5 + works with  S5 18 pin controller board.  If this is not the standard?
You do not even need to change the software.

Now you can do from yor  S5+  three miners .
http://i.imgur.com/o0Tw0vn.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/o0Tw0vn.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/zpd3upK.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/zpd3upK.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ht7J5tN.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ht7J5tN.jpg)



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 21, 2015, 05:57:57 PM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.

This was discussed a while ago in design, and the conclusion was that its not actually that desirable for the same reason that S2 upgrade kits never appeared. By the time the next generation appears, the previous generation is still mining away perfectly happily and so you can't immediately replace those hashing boards.

Ie if the S5 was modular to the S7, you'd still buy a full S7 because any S5s you had would still be fine to run for the foreseeable future. No one would scrap their S5, they'd simply run both or sell the S5.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Meech on August 21, 2015, 06:15:23 PM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.

This was discussed a while ago in design, and the conclusion was that its not actually that desirable for the same reason that S2 upgrade kits never appeared. By the time the next generation appears, the previous generation is still mining away perfectly happily and so you can't immediately replace those hashing boards.

Ie if the S5 was modular to the S7, you'd still buy a full S7 because any S5s you had would still be fine to run for the foreseeable future. No one would scrap their S5, they'd simply run both or sell the S5.
So did you know for sure about the S2 uprade kits not being produced and held back a response?  They only failed do to Bitmain not following through on not one but both announcements.  It's a shame to let a good case and design that's accomodating and easily upgradeable die. 


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: flikflak on August 21, 2015, 06:44:27 PM
@dogie

Of course, an S5 isnt obsolete when the S7 has been released - you have your points here.

@Tupsu

Thanks for the pics- that looks cute. So it is quite possible.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: 2112 on August 21, 2015, 07:10:18 PM
Thats why you employ people that know what they are doing and use MPW runs. Not rocket science, is it?
It seems to be impossible for the Bitcoin miner designers to hire the knowledgeable people. Do you know of any Bitcoin mining ASIC project that doesn't look like a student project or a quickie hack job?

Thus far only ASICMINER acknowledged (very early) of being unable to hire or contract anyone with power/analog ASIC experience.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tupsu on August 21, 2015, 07:13:44 PM
@dogie

Of course, an S5 isnt obsolete when the S7 has been released - you have your points here.

@Tupsu

Thanks for the pics- that looks cute. So it is quite possible.

S5 controller

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)

S5+ controller

http://i.imgur.com/ivtv3tC.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ivtv3tC.jpg)

The same space, but the temperature difference is 10 degrees Celsius.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 21, 2015, 07:20:59 PM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.

You want  standard ?
Let me give one free.

Tested. S5 + works with  S5 18 pin controller board.  If this is not the standard?
You do not even need to change the software.

Now you can do from yor  S5+  three miners .
http://i.imgur.com/o0Tw0vn.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/o0Tw0vn.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/zpd3upK.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/zpd3upK.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/ht7J5tN.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/ht7J5tN.jpg)


I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: 2112 on August 21, 2015, 07:59:21 PM
I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.
The added 'risk' is because for the first time they are getting outside the 'standard cell' design flow.

I have doubt that the new design is truly full custom. Their previous designs were simple unrolled hashers. True 'full custom' optimized design would be rolled. And switching from unrolled to rolled would involve redesign of the I/O protocol.

My bet is on them purchasing a custom standard macro library: lower-power by lower-area and lower-noise-margins. Sort-of like bitfury did for his first chip: 55nm-drawn transistors in the 65nm-nominal process.

Such a 'extra-low-power' library may be violating some default DRC's (design rule checks) of their foundry. Thus the foundry makes them explicitly waive DRC conformance warranty with their mask order.




Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tupsu on August 21, 2015, 08:17:35 PM
I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.

Yes. I did.

S5 controller with S5+ miner

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alh on August 21, 2015, 08:54:54 PM
I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.

Yes. I did.

S5 controller with S5+ miner

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)

That's pretty sweet. Looks like you put together more like what folks would have a thought an S5+ would be, before pictures of the "3 module monster" appeared. I thought there was a 16-pin -vs- 18-pin mismatch on the cables between the controller and the hashing board. What happened there?

Have you got any power measurements? I expect it would be roughly 1150W at the wall?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: brontosaurus on August 21, 2015, 10:30:51 PM
I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.
The added 'risk' is because for the first time they are getting outside the 'standard cell' design flow.

I have doubt that the new design is truly full custom. Their previous designs were simple unrolled hashers. True 'full custom' optimized design would be rolled. And switching from unrolled to rolled would involve redesign of the I/O protocol.

My bet is on them purchasing a custom standard macro library: lower-power by lower-area and lower-noise-margins. Sort-of like bitfury did for his first chip: 55nm-drawn transistors in the 65nm-nominal process.

Such a 'extra-low-power' library may be violating some default DRC's (design rule checks) of their foundry. Thus the foundry makes them explicitly waive DRC conformance warranty with their mask order.




You have completely the wrong view of full custom, a rolled design would be a really dumb idea for a modern mining chip and very area inefficient, the customisation involves only two circuit elements, but I'm sure you know that. Not rocket science at all, no magic, and very little risk if you have some respect for semiconductor physics. DRC is there for very good reasons which again I'm sure you know, and only an idiot would even consider violating them.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Abiky on August 21, 2015, 11:06:43 PM
This new mining chip is more energy efficient. Every new model is even more efficient than the previous one. Can't wait for Bitmain to release the Antminer S7. This is something I would like to buy...saving my money to buy a pair of these  ::)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: 2112 on August 21, 2015, 11:15:43 PM
You have completely the wrong view of full custom, a rolled design would be a really dumb idea for a modern mining chip and very area inefficient, the customisation involves only two circuit elements, but I'm sure you know that. Not rocket science at all, no magic, and very little risk if you have some respect for semiconductor physics. DRC is there for very good reasons which again I'm sure you know, and only an idiot would even consider violating them.
The rolled vs. unrolled isn't a fully resolved choice. The losses and noise in the very long lines that drag the signals over 15 SHA-256 rounds are quite significant. I think the bitfury approach of routing hashed words in one direction and constant SHA coefficients in a perpendicular direction gives overall savings over trying to squeeze combinatorial optimizations after fully unrolling. Most of the combinatorial optimization gain is achieved by SHA-256 round pairing, i.e. 32 round-pairs instead of by-the-FIPS explicit 64 single-rounds.

I did not do a full analog modeling of both choices (rolled/unrolled) for SHA-256. But I've done something similar in the past that was bound by the speed of carry-look-ahead adders. I actually doubt that anyone here on this forum (maybe with exception of bitfury) did the required tradeoff analysis. My scientific will-ass guess is that Bitcoin miner has a possibility of being an example of one such circuits where leaving things rolled will be of great benefit. The very high toggle ratio (only -6dB below the theoretical maximum of a ring oscillator) will probably benefit from using some sort of SCL (source-coupled logic) or CML (current-mode logic) instead of the garden-variety CMOS bang-bangs that every CAD monkey throws at the Bitcoin mining problem.

People do fully unrolled hashers because the logic synthesis tools use heuristic place & route algorithms that don't converge or converge extremely slowly on the rolled designs.

As far as I understand the full DRC compliance at 28nm "mature" process is very, very conservative. I don't have any exact numbers handy, but the assumed gate  error ratios for a "digital" manufacturing process are way too high for Bitcoin miner that can easily tolerate a percentage point of errors. Violating some of the DRC to shed the unnecessary margins is one of the simplest ways to save power, after the obvious things like dropping JTAG and other testability overheads.

Re-reading your first sentence, I don't really understand the part
Quote
the customisation involves only two circuit elements, but I'm sure you know that.
Could you restate what you had in mind?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 21, 2015, 11:17:47 PM
Before anyone gets too excited over this development I would wait until you know what the die size is and the operating frequency at quoted power consumption.

I am surprised that they say that full custom poses a higher 'risk' - that's only true for very complex chips like cpu's, not for the very simple (and I mean very simple) functions found in SHA256.

Good luck to them though, anything that puts a spanner in the works of KNC or 21 has to be welcomed.

Well when you're considering laying down nearly 8 figure sums without seeing the chip work first, you better be damn sure its going to work.

Oh, and 'nearly eight figures'????

6, 7, 9, or 10 presumably. 100k USD sounds affordable :)

Take a look at what S1 prices did in early 2013. Diff went way up really fast, coin prices went down, and the price for an S1 dropped about 90% in something like four months. You think my December S1 would have sold in March for the 4BTC paid for it, or more like 8BTC if priced in dollars? Only to a fool.

So I'd say that, in general, with some exceptions, someone who takes a sizeable chunk out of the viable life of a miner and then sells it at new price is not selling at expected fair market value, and someone that buys it probably didn't do his research to know he was being ripped off.

The point is not, and never has been, that selling secondhand hardware at fair market value is bad. The point is, and always has been, that successfully selling used hardware at well above market value is taking advantage of a fool, which is unethical. Implying that the proper strategy for making positive returns on mining is (and always has been) taking advantage of fools, well I like to think this community is better than that.

My respect for what you do for this community notwithstanding - I think you're wrong on this one. S1 showed up at the end of 2013 - so perhaps you meant early 2014 there. Yes, S1 and S2 depreciated quickly. However S3, S4, S5 and perhaps even the last runs of the S2 could be used for a couple of months and sold for near their original price without ripping anyone off, due to all sorts of interesting scenarios with difficulty and exchange rate changes. So that's 3:2 against your historic argument, and the future is anyone's guess so let's make it 50:50 :)

Again, you're taking an idealistic view of this. Purchase price minus "depreciation" must be your sale price? That's almost never the case. As someone already mentioned, if they list it as an auction on eBay and describe the condition properly and don't advertise it as a free money making machine - that's a fair game. Buyers electric cost, risk tolerance, future outlook, $25 eBay coupon, preference to buy locally instead of from China, and a bunch of other factors can affect the end price.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: itop_james on August 21, 2015, 11:38:28 PM
I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.

Yes. I did.

S5 controller with S5+ miner

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)

It is great test , how long you run it like this , I am thinking the stability of using lower version of controller .


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: @boutiuqe on August 21, 2015, 11:45:35 PM
If cloudmining is making profit why don't owner just mine theirself ?
Why do they want to sell to you guys ?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 21, 2015, 11:51:17 PM
If cloudmining is making profit why don't owner just mine theirself ?
Why do they want to sell to you guys ?

Shifting part of the risk onto the buyer and getting money upfront.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Marvell1 on August 22, 2015, 01:46:07 AM
If cloudmining is making profit why don't owner just mine theirself ?
Why do they want to sell to you guys ?


Remember the guy who killed the golden goose ...  they don't want to be that guy


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 22, 2015, 02:47:00 AM
If cloudmining is making profit why don't owner just mine theirself ?
Why do they want to sell to you guys ?


Remember the guy who killed the golden goose ...  they don't want to be that guy
I can't tell if you two are trolling but only one company even does cloud mining and it is Bitmain and the others are all ponzi's. The only reason Bitmain actually cloud mines is because they realized they can sell the hashrate to people for a higher rate then self mining and keep selling equipment. It works like this, Bitmain mines on equipment before it is sold lets give a fake number for fun .05 a day a miner, they sell this hashrate upfront of 1200gh/s for 600$ so 50 cents a hashrate. They pay out after "maintenance" which means nothing really, they still self mine and make a profit usually and then sell the miners at full 100% new price and replace the sold miner with a new fabricated machine.

AKA cloudmining is them being paid upfront for a miner and reselling it and pretending you still own it.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: generalt on August 22, 2015, 03:08:37 AM
I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.

Yes. I did.

S5 controller with S5+ miner

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)

So basically instead of just selling a single S5+ as a single 2.7th unit they forced people to buy 3 of them chained together.  I would've preferred the single 2.7th unit.  Sounds like they were in a big rush to dump the remaining stock of their older chips.  I'm sure their hosting facility has the S7's up and running already since they dumped their used S5 miners as well at new miner prices.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 22, 2015, 03:20:31 AM
I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.

Yes. I did.

S5 controller with S5+ miner

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)

So basically instead of just selling a single S5+ as a single 2.7th unit they forced people to buy 3 of them chained together.  I would've preferred the single 2.7th unit.  Sounds like they were in a big rush to dump the remaining stock of their older chips.  I'm sure their hosting facility has the S7's up and running already since they dumped their used S5 miners as well at new miner prices.

well they could have charge more for them as singles, but 3x the boxes and more logistics.

the strongest thing I get from this is they went all s-7 as I type.

they will not be selling any more s-5's or s-5=+ units.

and they are clever enough to slowly add s-7's  to keep hash growth under 2 or 3 % 

thus picking up big savings on power costs.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: generalt on August 22, 2015, 03:41:37 AM
You're right.  I guess they would have to swap out the right number of 5s for 7s as to not effect the hash rate too much but yeah the power savings alone should be huge.  I guess there's a delicate balance.  They can't turn them all on and make the difficulty jump too much.  If they do that then they can't charge as much for the S7 to their customers.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 22, 2015, 04:19:27 AM
You're right.  I guess they would have to swap out the right number of 5s for 7s as to not effect the hash rate too much but yeah the power savings alone should be huge.  I guess there's a delicate balance.  They can't turn them all on and make the difficulty jump too much.  If they do that then they can't charge as much for the S7 to their customers.

And it put's them at a big advantage compared to other mining companies.  We don't know for sure what they are doing.  But likely the first S7's will end up in the spots the used S5's were.

When it happens is hard to say.  But I'm sure they have a good business plan.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 22, 2015, 05:08:39 AM
You're right.  I guess they would have to swap out the right number of 5s for 7s as to not effect the hash rate too much but yeah the power savings alone should be huge.  I guess there's a delicate balance.  They can't turn them all on and make the difficulty jump too much.  If they do that then they can't charge as much for the S7 to their customers.

And it put's them at a big advantage compared to other mining companies.  We don't know for sure what they are doing.  But likely the first S7's will end up in the spots the used S5's were.

When it happens is hard to say.  But I'm sure they have a good business plan.
There business plan has already taken place, the idea that they are mining on s5's is ridiculous and we all know that S7's are hashing already if not for for a long while.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tupsu on August 22, 2015, 06:53:26 AM
I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.

Yes. I did.

S5 controller with S5+ miner

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)

It is great test , how long you run it like this , I am thinking the stability of using lower version of controller .

It is not - "lower version of controller"

At the moment,
13h 36m
10HW error
Freg   325


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 22, 2015, 07:10:26 AM
I am confused are you saying you can take an S5+ and 3 controller boards from standard S5 units and make them all run solo at 2.7th/s? If so that is pretty damn impressive and cool.

Yes. I did.

S5 controller with S5+ miner

http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vadykp1.jpg)

It is great test , how long you run it like this , I am thinking the stability of using lower version of controller .

It is not - "lower version of controller"

At the moment,
13h 36m
10HW error
Freg   325
I think he is confused and thinks the controller is effecting the hashrate, my guess is the center has a couple more chips and that is it.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 22, 2015, 09:41:26 AM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.

This was discussed a while ago in design, and the conclusion was that its not actually that desirable for the same reason that S2 upgrade kits never appeared. By the time the next generation appears, the previous generation is still mining away perfectly happily and so you can't immediately replace those hashing boards.

Ie if the S5 was modular to the S7, you'd still buy a full S7 because any S5s you had would still be fine to run for the foreseeable future. No one would scrap their S5, they'd simply run both or sell the S5.
So did you know for sure about the S2 uprade kits not being produced and held back a response?  They only failed do to Bitmain not following through on not one but both announcements.  It's a shame to let a good case and design that's accomodating and easily upgradeable die. 

No I didn't know, that was a management decision. The S2 design wasn't very good and was subsequently never repeated. It required a motherboard, slots that often broke, large areas of dead space for cooling and is probably the only Bitmain miner that was susceptible to shipping issues. And an included non server grade PSU which liked to die after a year.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 22, 2015, 10:00:11 AM
If cloudmining is making profit why don't owner just mine theirself ?
Why do they want to sell to you guys ?


 Because they make more money and amortise the cost of the chip design a LOT faster by selling miners to those of us that don't trust cloud mining.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 22, 2015, 10:02:25 AM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.

This was discussed a while ago in design, and the conclusion was that its not actually that desirable for the same reason that S2 upgrade kits never appeared. By the time the next generation appears, the previous generation is still mining away perfectly happily and so you can't immediately replace those hashing boards.

Ie if the S5 was modular to the S7, you'd still buy a full S7 because any S5s you had would still be fine to run for the foreseeable future. No one would scrap their S5, they'd simply run both or sell the S5.

 How about an upgrade for the S1 or the S3 though, which aren't very efficient and aren't profitable any more in most places?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 22, 2015, 10:11:17 AM
Wouldnt it be nice to have some kind of standard in the BITMAIN world?
I'm thinking of just changing the blades and the firmware to upgrade an S5 to an S7. It would reduce the prices a bit (lets say 10-15%, its shipping costs, VAT ..) and it would also kinda bond the customer to the company as well.

This was discussed a while ago in design, and the conclusion was that its not actually that desirable for the same reason that S2 upgrade kits never appeared. By the time the next generation appears, the previous generation is still mining away perfectly happily and so you can't immediately replace those hashing boards.

Ie if the S5 was modular to the S7, you'd still buy a full S7 because any S5s you had would still be fine to run for the foreseeable future. No one would scrap their S5, they'd simply run both or sell the S5.

 How about an upgrade for the S1 or the S3 though, which aren't very efficient and aren't profitable any more in most places?


Upgrade kits cost not dissimilar to the full miner because:
  • Have to assemble, test, then disassemble an entire miner
  • Cost of the rest of the kit (even the fan) is very minimal
  • Usually requires new controller anyway
  • Harder to predict batch numbers
  • Harder to ship, volume priced shipping costs
  • Greater dead loss from shipping damage

tldr, its just easier to give you a new miner.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 22, 2015, 10:12:35 AM
Guess the price of the AntMiner S7 and win some BTC! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 22, 2015, 02:00:58 PM
I was going to round off my calculation and guess 4, but someone beat me to it.

 8-(



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: ziomar on August 22, 2015, 07:26:15 PM
Guess the price of the AntMiner S7 and win some BTC! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185)

Funny idea


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sajidfbi on August 22, 2015, 08:40:25 PM
Guess the price of the AntMiner S7 and win some BTC! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185)

Between $2500 upto $3000 if it's 10 TH.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 22, 2015, 08:45:51 PM
Guess the price of the AntMiner S7 and win some BTC! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185)

Between $2500 upto $3000 if it's 10 TH.
Well you aren't going to win, that is just stupid as it would easily cannibalize their just released Antminer S5+, it should be a similar form factor to s5 and run around 2.4th


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 22, 2015, 08:58:44 PM
maybe they sold all the s5+ and don't plan to make others!

so they will produce an 15th monster!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 22, 2015, 09:33:27 PM
maybe they sold all the s5+ and don't plan to make others!

so they will produce an 15th monster!

This is something we really don't know.  The S5+ was a way to use a LOT of chips.   So if this was old stock of chips they sure could use up a lot quickly.

It's hard to say if they will make another batch or if we will see S7 next.  Just a lot of unknowns.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 23, 2015, 02:06:47 AM
Guess the price of the AntMiner S7 and win some BTC! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185)

Between $2500 upto $3000 if it's 10 TH.

 That might be the S8, if/when it's released. Definitely NOT the S7.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: exsexs on August 23, 2015, 07:42:52 AM
Guess the price of the AntMiner S7 and win some BTC! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185)

Between $2500 upto $3000 if it's 10 TH.
Well you aren't going to win, that is just stupid as it would easily cannibalize their just released Antminer S5+, it should be a similar form factor to s5 and run around 2.4th

+1

I think S7 similar to S1, S3, S5 and will run 2.4-2.6 Th/s, but I need S6 first ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Rabinovitch on August 23, 2015, 07:50:31 AM
There will not be S6. dogie said it before.

Personally I would like S7 to be like S2. In this case Bitmain will be able to kill two birds with one stone: release the best mining equipment on Earth (since we don't see any competitors who are ready to offer the mass (not B2B) sales of HW with the same efficiency; but we'll wait for the announce of LKETC 5Th miner though) and keep their promise given to S2 owners about the upgrade kits.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 23, 2015, 07:58:15 AM
maybe from now on they will sell only sX miners and sX+miners
where sX will be the middle unit out of the sX+
...


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Minerkev on August 23, 2015, 09:19:14 AM
Price will be 300$


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 23, 2015, 09:29:34 AM
Price will be 300$

It was higher then that for used S5's.   So I highly doubt we will see a 300 dollar miner.  I wish we would see a drop in prices I'm all for that.

Also we don't know when they will release it.  That could have some effect on price as well.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: xstr8guy on August 23, 2015, 10:19:53 AM
You're right.  I guess they would have to swap out the right number of 5s for 7s as to not effect the hash rate too much but yeah the power savings alone should be huge.  I guess there's a delicate balance.  They can't turn them all on and make the difficulty jump too much.  If they do that then they can't charge as much for the S7 to their customers.

And it put's them at a big advantage compared to other mining companies.  We don't know for sure what they are doing.  But likely the first S7's will end up in the spots the used S5's were.

When it happens is hard to say.  But I'm sure they have a good business plan.
There business plan has already taken place, the idea that they are mining on s5's is ridiculous and we all know that S7's are hashing already if not for for a long while.

And they're doing this why? Because they are smart. Doing anything is is just plain stupid.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 23, 2015, 10:19:59 AM
There will not be S6. dogie said it before.

Personally I would like S7 to be like S2. In this case Bitmain will be able to kill two birds with one stone: release the best mining equipment on Earth (since we don't see any competitors who are ready to offer the mass (not B2B) sales of HW with the same efficiency; but we'll wait for the announce of LKETC 5Th miner though) and keep their promise given to S2 owners about the upgrade kits.

It was quite a while ago when I said that and things do change. That being said, still looks like S7 next.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: iqlimasyadiqa on August 23, 2015, 10:23:10 AM
"a power consumption of 0216 watts per gigahash second" low power consumption for producing monster coin. just waiting for the definite price issued by distributor: D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: loshia on August 23, 2015, 11:35:15 AM
"a power consumption of 0216 watts per gigahash second" low power consumption for producing monster coin. just waiting for the definite price issued by distributor: D
That would be a number whih will never ROI as usual  ;)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: iqlimasyadiqa on August 23, 2015, 11:46:10 AM
"a power consumption of 0216 watts per gigahash second" low power consumption for producing monster coin. just waiting for the definite price issued by distributor: D
That would be a number whih will never ROI as usual  ;)
yes, it would be one of the top. still waiting to see if I could get this stuff. I'll try to take out and put in the my home .  ;)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 23, 2015, 02:12:57 PM
Price will be 300$

 Around 2019.

 8-O


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 23, 2015, 02:47:50 PM
They will be priced to roi in 250 days at ten cent power


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Biodom on August 23, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
They will be priced to roi in 250 days at ten cent power

most likely, but only if price stays stable.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: takagari on August 23, 2015, 05:44:05 PM
I have mixed feelings, I'd love to see them launch a rack mount, self contained unit.
Although I have the power supplies and knowledge to build what i need, It's a pain in the ass and messy lol.

A plug and play S4 style unit would be awesome.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 23, 2015, 05:46:31 PM
I have mixed feelings, I'd love to see them launch a rack mount, self contained unit.
Although I have the power supplies and knowledge to build what i need, It's a pain in the ass and messy lol.

A plug and play S4 style unit would be awesome.

Well its cheaper to plug your own PSU tho.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: takagari on August 23, 2015, 05:47:39 PM
Thats true, or a drop in slot for provide your own psu, hah, but then they'd be out of stock everywhere.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: bmoscato on August 24, 2015, 01:30:52 AM
This would be cool as a stick miner!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: gdale on August 24, 2015, 02:01:09 AM
what i think an antminer s7 would be:
5.58THs to 4.68THs
power under 1500watts
price 825 to 975
just my two cents


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Biodom on August 24, 2015, 02:07:03 AM
what i think an antminer s7 would be:
5.58THs to 4.68THs
power under 1500watts
price 825 to 975
just my two cents

nah, what you described is more like S8 or S7+

S7: 2300-2700 TH, 505-595W in a small form factor. It is much easier to dissipate that much heat vs 1500W

however, it would throw a wrench into plans of many if it would require three separate PCIe connectors with each more than 200W as per S5+ design.
It would mean that Corsair 750 workhorse is a no go.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 24, 2015, 02:12:56 AM
what i think an antminer s7 would be:
5.58THs to 4.68THs
power under 1500watts
price 825 to 975
just my two cents

nah, what you described is more like S8

S7: 2300-2400 TH, 505-550W

... but the $975 price point might be right :)

Let's be realistic here, Bitmain is not going to sell a twice-as-efficient miner for LESS per TH/s than the S5. So if the S5 is now $380 (on Hashnest) that's $330 per TH/s. It's likely the S7 would be around $400-500 per TH/s, depending on the BTC exchange rate.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Biodom on August 24, 2015, 02:16:20 AM
what i think an antminer s7 would be:
5.58THs to 4.68THs
power under 1500watts
price 825 to 975
just my two cents

nah, what you described is more like S8

S7: 2300-2400 TH, 505-550W

... but the $975 price point might be right :)

Let's be realistic here, Bitmain is not going to sell a twice-as-efficient miner for LESS per TH/s than the S5. So if the S5 is now $380 (on Hashnest) that's $330 per TH/s. It's likely the S7 would be around $400-500 per TH/s, depending on the BTC exchange rate.

I think that they will aim at $700 or about as it shows 280 days until profitability at 600w, 2400Gh and $0.1/kwh electricity cost at current btc prices.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: audiotopix on August 24, 2015, 03:23:20 AM
Just curious, but why are we Skipping S6?

Anyone know?? I see now, the number corresponds to the form factor.

........................


I bet its similar in design to the s5+ single unit and has 3 boards, 90 chips total, at 32.5 ghs thats 2,950 gh X .23 = @ just under 700 watts, you could still power 2 off of an APW3-12-1600.

Price will likely be between 1,050 and 1,200 competitive with SFARDS.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: takagari on August 24, 2015, 03:28:49 AM
Just curious, but why are we Skipping S6?

Anyone know??
Because of Batman?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 24, 2015, 04:13:11 AM
Just curious, but why are we Skipping S6?

Anyone know??
Because of Batman?

Not sure Dogie let us know long ago that we were going to do it.  (I could be wrong but I think he was first).   But it seems to be true and no one really knows when S7 will be released yet.

But the S5+ could have easily had a S6 sticker slapped on it.  But they choose to do the plus model instead.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Meech on August 24, 2015, 04:26:20 AM
I believe it will be powered by their new psu and will run around 6 Th at 1400w.  If not the S7 the S7+ or S8.  But eventually we will see another rack mount monstrosity.   ::)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 24, 2015, 06:38:53 AM
I believe it will be powered by their new psu and will run around 6 Th at 1400w.  If not the S7 the S7+ or S8.  But eventually we will see another rack mount monstrosity.   ::)

Their new PSU? Are you referring to their 205V+ PSU? I don't see it being sold along with the S7. A tons of people can't use 240V PSU's. But if they came with some 115-240PSU like the S4, that would be nice. Of course assuming the PSU isint as terribad as the actual one from the S4.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: carlosmnk on August 24, 2015, 06:46:20 AM
S7: 3 blades x 350w each with 2 pci-e in each blade, total 1050w and a total of 4.60 Th/s, i think that's will be the new Bitmain's standard...


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 24, 2015, 06:51:29 AM
S7: 3 blades x 350w each with 2 pci-e in each blade, total 1050w and a total of 4.60 Th/s, i think that's will be the new Bitmain's standard...

Thats a pretty big unit, i'm thinking they will keep it under 690 watt as its the optimal power factor to fit on breakers. Ex; 115V*15A*0.8/2
It would fit nicely all the way from 115V to 240V grids.

Personally i'm hoping for Wifi support again. It really help the wire mess ^_^".


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: ziomar on August 24, 2015, 08:11:52 AM
The price will be above 1000 usd


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 24, 2015, 09:29:06 AM
Just curious, but why are we Skipping S6?

Anyone know??
Because of Batman?

Not sure Dogie let us know long ago that we were going to do it.  (I could be wrong but I think he was first).   But it seems to be true and no one really knows when S7 will be released yet.

But the S5+ could have easily had a S6 sticker slapped on it.  But they choose to do the plus model instead.

S4+ was what would have fit into the S6 nomenclature but it was only a small performance increase, so they put a + on the end instead.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 24, 2015, 11:42:48 AM
I hope they don't waste the money on wifi. Not all that many folks that use it especially in a mining situation, as it's nowhere near as reliable as standard Ethernet (it's also slow, but that's not really a factor for a miner due to the low needed datarate).

 I doubt they'll go 3 boards or the 800+ watts a 3 board unit would need, that would have broken THEIR existing Hashnest setup and you can't reasonably run 2 such machines from those 1600 Watt PS they also sell and are likely using on their own farm hardware.
 For similar reasons *AND* lack of board space, I dount they'll put 3 strings on one board with the BM1385 - 54 chips would be a NIGHTMARE to keep the corner chips cool on their current board form factor.

 Price above $1000 is unlikely unless bitcoin pricing JUMPS soon.


Quote

I believe it will be powered by their new psu and will run around 6 Th at 1400w.  If not the S7 the S7+ or S8.


 S7+/S8 (whichever they decide to go with for a "BIG" unit) will be a lot more TH - I'd guess ballpark 10.5 TH at 2400 watt ballpark in a S5+ form factor. It wouldn't make sense for their "new big miner" when they come up with it to be lower TH than the S5+


 S4+ would NOT have fit as an S6 - it was the BM1382 NOT the BM1384. S6 would have fit the S5+, though they may have decided that since it's not specifically a rack mount unit it wasn't really fitting for the S6 name.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 24, 2015, 12:22:48 PM
what i think an antminer s7 would be:
5.58THs to 4.68THs
power under 1500watts
price 825 to 975
just my two cents

nah, what you described is more like S8 or S7+

S7: 2300-2700 TH, 505-595W in a small form factor. It is much easier to dissipate that much heat vs 1500W

however, it would throw a wrench into plans of many if it would require three separate PCIe connectors with each more than 200W as per S5+ design.
It would mean that Corsair 750 workhorse is a no go.



I would agree more if the S5+ is or was the S6 makes sense that the S7 is for everyone would be more in line around 2.2 th or a tad higher  if it is 230 watts per TH  that's what maybe  500 watts tops or a tad hgiher as you said , at defaults then goes from there . it would make better sense to have it run on a 110 to 220 line depending on the PSU .


Price it at or like the S3 S5 etc ...that way every one stays happy including them .why would it be priced any higher just because of what that they do, i understand why S5 + is etc, unless they want to shut out the home miner which i kind of don't think they want to do after all were the ones that got them were they are now .

if it goes this way i some how see the S8 using less power and more speed if it is a  new chip by then .



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: aarons6 on August 24, 2015, 12:41:59 PM
what i think an antminer s7 would be:
5.58THs to 4.68THs
power under 1500watts
price 825 to 975
just my two cents

nah, what you described is more like S8 or S7+

S7: 2300-2700 TH, 505-595W in a small form factor. It is much easier to dissipate that much heat vs 1500W

however, it would throw a wrench into plans of many if it would require three separate PCIe connectors with each more than 200W as per S5+ design.
It would mean that Corsair 750 workhorse is a no go.



I would agree more if the S5+ is or was the S6 makes sense that the S7 is for everyone would be more in line around 2.2 th or a tad higher  if it is 230 watts per TH  that's what maybe  500 watts tops or a tad hgiher as you said , at defaults then goes from there . it would make better sense to have it run on a 110 to 220 line depending on the PSU .


Price it at or like the S3 S5 etc ...that way every one stays happy including them .

if it goes this way i some how see the S8 using less power and more speed if it's a  new chip by then .



this is what i hope, they would be unwise to make something that cant run off one psu and is fairly quiet..

not everyone wants to buy something that needs 4 or 5 large psus, and has 8 fans running 5000 rpms.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 24, 2015, 02:27:13 PM
what i think an antminer s7 would be:
5.58THs to 4.68THs
power under 1500watts
price 825 to 975
just my two cents

nah, what you described is more like S8 or S7+

S7: 2300-2700 TH, 505-595W in a small form factor. It is much easier to dissipate that much heat vs 1500W

however, it would throw a wrench into plans of many if it would require three separate PCIe connectors with each more than 200W as per S5+ design.
It would mean that Corsair 750 workhorse is a no go.



I would agree more if the S5+ is or was the S6 makes sense that the S7 is for everyone would be more in line around 2.2 th or a tad higher  if it is 230 watts per TH  that's what maybe  500 watts tops or a tad hgiher as you said , at defaults then goes from there . it would make better sense to have it run on a 110 to 220 line depending on the PSU .


Price it at or like the S3 S5 etc ...that way every one stays happy including them .

if it goes this way i some how see the S8 using less power and more speed if it's a  new chip by then .



this is what i hope, they would be unwise to make something that cant run off one psu and is fairly quiet..

not everyone wants to buy something that needs 4 or 5 large psus, and has 8 fans running 5000 rpms.

Yeah that and they just made the s5+ for that and they would be hurting their own product already by doing that with the S7 which makes no sense to me.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 24, 2015, 03:03:14 PM
Last batch of s5+: SNIP
I don't see anywhere that it says last batch but are using their last chips and the new unit will use a new chip so their fabrication wouldn't make any more chips like this. This seems like a great way for them to dump out all of their last chips when they're switching to a new one, I would expect a similar unit type at the end of the lifecycle of the upcoming chip.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: edonkey on August 24, 2015, 03:07:55 PM
Last batch of s5+: SCAM LINK REMOVED

This is probably a scam!

Note that the text of the link above says "bitmaintech.com", but the actual domain is "bitmaintech.co". Looks like "bitmaintech.co" was registered on Friday August 21st, 2015.

The main bitmaintech.com site says nothing about batch 2.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 24, 2015, 03:17:14 PM
S8 would be the BM1385 chip, if they get around to building one. If they had a "new chip by then" it would go into a S9 and S10, per their normal numbering scheme.

I suspect there are a LOT more S5 units running as pairs from the EVGA 1300G2 than there are running as singles from 750W power supplies, though the 750s offer more flexability they also eat more space.

 I suspect I'm a bit uncommon in running 3 S5s from a pair of Seasonic X1250s (I trust the longevity of most Seasonic units over anything EVGA, though the EVGA aren't BAD by any means), but that particular setup fits wonderfully well in my old 30"x12" metal storage racks (PS/S5/S5/S5/PS), there's an inch or so where the rack legs would get in the way but the PS are short enough I can work around that easily even laying them flat - just leave the exaust side pushed as far away from the "back legs" as possible.
 I'm also a firm believer in NOT pushing power supplies to their limits, both for better efficiency and better longevity (heat is THE ENEMY of anything electronic, the cooler it runs the longer it lasts on average).


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 24, 2015, 03:18:15 PM
Last batch of s5+: link removed

This is probably a scam!

Note that the text of the link above says "bitmaintech.com", but the actual domain is "bitmaintech.co". Looks like "bitmaintech.co" was registered on Friday August 21st, 2015.

The main bitmaintech.com site says nothing about batch 2.


Good catch. This is nasty.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 24, 2015, 03:19:10 PM
Last batch of s5+: https://bitmaintech.com/productDetailc054.php?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B (https://bitmaintech.co/productDetailc054.php?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B)

This is probably a scam!

Note that the text of the link above says "bitmaintech.com", but the actual domain is "bitmaintech.co". Looks like "bitmaintech.co" was registered on Friday August 21st, 2015.

The main bitmaintech.com site says nothing about batch 2.

Nice catch, I didn't see that there, hopefully nobody gets duped by this I will go ahead and snip it out of my previous quote.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sjc1490 on August 24, 2015, 03:23:20 PM
Last batch of s5+:
 (http://xxxxxxxx[/url)

This is probably a scam!

Note that the text of the link above says "bitmaintech.com", but the actual domain is "bitmaintech.co". Looks like "bitmaintech.co" was registered on Friday August 21st, 2015.

The main bitmaintech.com site says nothing about batch 2.

Nice catch, I didn't see that there, hopefully nobody gets duped by this I will go ahead and snip it out of my previous quote.

Definitely a scam, I tried putting a totally made up user and pass on the sign in page after it takes you to and it lets you right through to pay for your order. Probably catching your Bitmain user and pass info also. If anybody clicked through I would definitely change your logon info.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 24, 2015, 03:24:21 PM
fishing link for sure

I reported to the mods and marked the guy as a scammer.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 24, 2015, 03:25:38 PM
Last batch of s5+:
 (http://xxxxxxxx[/url)

This is probably a scam!

Note that the text of the link above says "bitmaintech.com", but the actual domain is "bitmaintech.co". Looks like "bitmaintech.co" was registered on Friday August 21st, 2015.

The main bitmaintech.com site says nothing about batch 2.

Nice catch, I didn't see that there, hopefully nobody gets duped by this I will go ahead and snip it out of my previous quote.

Definitely a scam, I tried putting a totally made up user and pass on the sign in page after it takes you to and it lets you right through to pay for your order. Probably catching your Bitmain user and pass info also. If anybody clicked through I would definitely change your logon info.
Meat has his own thread doing the same thing with the thread locked, I gave him negative feedback and he is saying it is the last batch as well. Definitely need to get the word out on this.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 24, 2015, 03:29:25 PM
going from here
https://bitmaintech.co/user/orderConfirm.php
to here
https://bitmaintech.co/user/orderDelivery.php

we can see the wallet changing! nice shit ;D or just hit refresh on the delivery page :D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tigggger on August 24, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
Last batch of s5+: <snip link>

This is probably a scam!

Note that the text of the link above says "bitmaintech.com", but the actual domain is "bitmaintech.co". Looks like "bitmaintech.co" was registered on Friday August 21st, 2015.

The main bitmaintech.com site says nothing about batch 2.


Very well spotted, I had no intention of buying one but did click for a look and never noticed.

Entered all fake info and the payment address was
15fzSz7bErfNd9j8pvv9iqdJcnaXbUpcx1

Probably the same for all orders, maybe someone else can check. strike that mavericklm beat me to it :)

PS. Always wise to delete these links when quoting, saves the mods having to delete multiple posts.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 24, 2015, 03:35:33 PM
Last batch of s5+: https://bitmaintech.com/productDetailc054.php?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B (https://bitmaintech.co/productDetailc054.php?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B)

This is probably a scam!

Note that the text of the link above says "bitmaintech.com", but the actual domain is "bitmaintech.co". Looks like "bitmaintech.co" was registered on Friday August 21st, 2015.

The main bitmaintech.com site says nothing about batch 2.

Nice catch, I didn't see that there, hopefully nobody gets duped by this I will go ahead and snip it out of my previous quote.

Well, at first there were 27 available and now its 21. I suspect someone might have sent coins. :/ Leaving - trust too.

The wallet address I see is completely different: 12ipiQ56RfzAtWxvyCu3zMa2qdudVqR6D3


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tigggger on August 24, 2015, 03:37:52 PM
Well, at first there were 27 available and now its 21. I suspect someone might have sent coins. :/ Leaving - trust too.

Hopefully it's just us sticking them in the basket, and not unfortunate people getting scammed.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 24, 2015, 03:38:54 PM
Well, at first there were 27 available and now its 21. I suspect someone might have sent coins. :/ Leaving - trust too.

Hopefully it's just us sticking them in the basket, and not unfortunate people getting scammed.
Yeah I don't think anyone making such a large purchase will do it so quickly, it is more likely to steal bitmain accounts and steal ghash via Hashnest and sell them for Bitcoin and withdrawal it.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: chiguireitor on August 24, 2015, 04:38:06 PM
We should make a bot to request paying address repeatedly to CPU-abuse their VPS... shouldn't be that hard, and that would cost'em money or banning

EDIT: Already tried, it is a fixed set of addresses, shouldn't be hard to track.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 24, 2015, 05:33:16 PM
We should make a bot to request paying address repeatedly to CPU-abuse their VPS... shouldn't be that hard, and that would cost'em money or banning

EDIT: Already tried, it is a fixed set of addresses, shouldn't be hard to track.
Good on you, we definitely need to report the website to the host as they will likely take it down and that will be the end of that.

Now back on subject, does anyone know if the antistatic fans by corsair that a lot use for the S5 with a push and pull method would work if the dimensions were shifted a bit more one way? (A height increase or depth increase) I ask as the only think I could see changing on the design is a bit added in a direction.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 24, 2015, 06:12:18 PM
We should make a bot to request paying address repeatedly to CPU-abuse their VPS... shouldn't be that hard, and that would cost'em money or banning

EDIT: Already tried, it is a fixed set of addresses, shouldn't be hard to track.
Good on you, we definitely need to report the website to the host as they will likely take it down and that will be the end of that.

Now back on subject, does anyone know if the antistatic fans by corsair that a lot use for the S5 with a push and pull method would work if the dimensions were shifted a bit more one way? (A height increase or depth increase) I ask as the only think I could see changing on the design is a bit added in a direction.

I still wonder what the actual dB is from a meter. Looking at the stats, 6 fans running over 4500 rpm should sound like a Ferrari. What corsair fans are you referring to? As my experience with them are not that bright in s5, I simply couldn't use any other fan without underclocking. What I came up with the latest update was to set the stock fan to the lowest rate and put a corsair fan (or whatever with over 2000 rpm, 90 cmf and silent) as pull.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 24, 2015, 07:02:15 PM
We should make a bot to request paying address repeatedly to CPU-abuse their VPS... shouldn't be that hard, and that would cost'em money or banning

EDIT: Already tried, it is a fixed set of addresses, shouldn't be hard to track.
Good on you, we definitely need to report the website to the host as they will likely take it down and that will be the end of that.

Now back on subject, does anyone know if the antistatic fans by corsair that a lot use for the S5 with a push and pull method would work if the dimensions were shifted a bit more one way? (A height increase or depth increase) I ask as the only think I could see changing on the design is a bit added in a direction.

I still wonder what the actual dB is from a meter. Looking at the stats, 6 fans running over 4500 rpm should sound like a Ferrari. What corsair fans are you referring to? As my experience with them are not that bright in s5, I simply couldn't use any other fan without underclocking. What I came up with the latest update was to set the stock fan to the lowest rate and put a corsair fan (or whatever with over 2000 rpm, 90 cmf and silent) as pull.

I think i remember seeing they were 70dB fans. So with the added noise of air turbulence and 6 of them, it would not be surprised for 80dB.

I don't think you should use a sp120 here, i don't think it can pull enough Static pressure to make a difference vs the huge pressure from the stock push. However it could add a bit of airflow to the external end chips.
Personally the best way i did this was just the stock fan at lower% with a box fan blowing air on it. Temps are tight together, 57/58 for example. And its much cheaper, support multiple S5 and is quiet.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 24, 2015, 07:26:06 PM
We should make a bot to request paying address repeatedly to CPU-abuse their VPS... shouldn't be that hard, and that would cost'em money or banning

EDIT: Already tried, it is a fixed set of addresses, shouldn't be hard to track.
Good on you, we definitely need to report the website to the host as they will likely take it down and that will be the end of that.

Now back on subject, does anyone know if the antistatic fans by corsair that a lot use for the S5 with a push and pull method would work if the dimensions were shifted a bit more one way? (A height increase or depth increase) I ask as the only think I could see changing on the design is a bit added in a direction.

I still wonder what the actual dB is from a meter. Looking at the stats, 6 fans running over 4500 rpm should sound like a Ferrari. What corsair fans are you referring to? As my experience with them are not that bright in s5, I simply couldn't use any other fan without underclocking. What I came up with the latest update was to set the stock fan to the lowest rate and put a corsair fan (or whatever with over 2000 rpm, 90 cmf and silent) as pull.

I think i remember seeing they were 70dB fans. So with the added noise of air turbulence and 6 of them, it would not be surprised for 80dB.

I don't think you should use a sp120 here, i don't think it can pull enough Static pressure to make a difference vs the huge pressure from the stock push. However it could add a bit of airflow to the external end chips.
Personally the best way i did this was just the stock fan at lower% with a box fan blowing air on it. Temps are tight together, 57/58 for example. And its much cheaper, support multiple S5 and is quiet.

Hmm, thats another idea I am willing to try. What you mean by box fan is something like this, right?

http://www.rowell.com.tr/dosyalar/rowell-ayakli-vantilator-metal04-202.png

At what % you run the stock fan and at what mhz? (with getting those temps)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 24, 2015, 07:30:07 PM
We should make a bot to request paying address repeatedly to CPU-abuse their VPS... shouldn't be that hard, and that would cost'em money or banning

EDIT: Already tried, it is a fixed set of addresses, shouldn't be hard to track.
Good on you, we definitely need to report the website to the host as they will likely take it down and that will be the end of that.

Now back on subject, does anyone know if the antistatic fans by corsair that a lot use for the S5 with a push and pull method would work if the dimensions were shifted a bit more one way? (A height increase or depth increase) I ask as the only think I could see changing on the design is a bit added in a direction.

I still wonder what the actual dB is from a meter. Looking at the stats, 6 fans running over 4500 rpm should sound like a Ferrari. What corsair fans are you referring to? As my experience with them are not that bright in s5, I simply couldn't use any other fan without underclocking. What I came up with the latest update was to set the stock fan to the lowest rate and put a corsair fan (or whatever with over 2000 rpm, 90 cmf and silent) as pull.

I think i remember seeing they were 70dB fans. So with the added noise of air turbulence and 6 of them, it would not be surprised for 80dB.

I don't think you should use a sp120 here, i don't think it can pull enough Static pressure to make a difference vs the huge pressure from the stock push. However it could add a bit of airflow to the external end chips.
Personally the best way i did this was just the stock fan at lower% with a box fan blowing air on it. Temps are tight together, 57/58 for example. And its much cheaper, support multiple S5 and is quiet.

Hmm, thats another idea I am willing to try. What you mean by box fan is something like this, right?

http://www.rowell.com.tr/dosyalar/rowell-ayakli-vantilator-metal04-202.png

At what % you run the stock fan and at what mhz? (with getting those temps)

this is a box fan



http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lasko-20-in-3-Speed-Box-Fan-3733/100405665?cm_mmc=shopping-_-bingpa-_-29-_-100405665&ci_src=328768002&ci_sku=100405665

your link is a tower fan


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 24, 2015, 07:34:10 PM
We should make a bot to request paying address repeatedly to CPU-abuse their VPS... shouldn't be that hard, and that would cost'em money or banning

EDIT: Already tried, it is a fixed set of addresses, shouldn't be hard to track.
Good on you, we definitely need to report the website to the host as they will likely take it down and that will be the end of that.

Now back on subject, does anyone know if the antistatic fans by corsair that a lot use for the S5 with a push and pull method would work if the dimensions were shifted a bit more one way? (A height increase or depth increase) I ask as the only think I could see changing on the design is a bit added in a direction.

I still wonder what the actual dB is from a meter. Looking at the stats, 6 fans running over 4500 rpm should sound like a Ferrari. What corsair fans are you referring to? As my experience with them are not that bright in s5, I simply couldn't use any other fan without underclocking. What I came up with the latest update was to set the stock fan to the lowest rate and put a corsair fan (or whatever with over 2000 rpm, 90 cmf and silent) as pull.

I think i remember seeing they were 70dB fans. So with the added noise of air turbulence and 6 of them, it would not be surprised for 80dB.

I don't think you should use a sp120 here, i don't think it can pull enough Static pressure to make a difference vs the huge pressure from the stock push. However it could add a bit of airflow to the external end chips.
Personally the best way i did this was just the stock fan at lower% with a box fan blowing air on it. Temps are tight together, 57/58 for example. And its much cheaper, support multiple S5 and is quiet.

Hmm, thats another idea I am willing to try. What you mean by box fan is something like this, right?

http://www.rowell.com.tr/dosyalar/rowell-ayakli-vantilator-metal04-202.png

At what % you run the stock fan and at what mhz? (with getting those temps)

Naw not a fan on a stand, a box fan (https://www.google.ca/search?q=box+fan&rlz=1C1ASUC_enCA589CA589&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=637&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIzI3BzrnCxwIVBBs-Ch1wCgFG).

Personally my box fans are in the window and push in fresh air and i use plastic to direct air directly to the sides of the S5 toward the exhaust, but some users just put the S5 on the box fan. I'd probably do that if i wasnt dumping air strait outside with ducts. That plan would probably work if generating heat inside the room was not a problem.

My fan still run at 50% its still summer here, temp does from 55 to 63 when its 28C outside. I think i'll be able to drop them very low during winter.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 24, 2015, 07:48:52 PM
Thank you for your replies, I have them both in my house, ready to use. Im living on a crowded street and I fear the fan infront of the window might push a lot of dust.

@VirosaGITS at what clock you are running your miner(s)?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 24, 2015, 08:12:41 PM
Thank you for your replies, I have them both in my house, ready to use. Im living on a crowded street and I fear the fan infront of the window might push a lot of dust.

@VirosaGITS at what clock you are running your miner(s)?

Right i forgot. Freq = 387.5.

Its the second best hashrate for W freq for me but virtually 0 HW, seem a good compromise until winter where i may use the optimal setting which is 393.75. Maybe even try 400 when its winter cooled.

For the dust i recommend getting a box fan filter pack. Its just some kind of net you put over the fan. There's the cheap throw away one or there's high quality cleanable pad that are more expensive.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Zelek Uther on August 25, 2015, 02:02:48 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 25, 2015, 02:05:58 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?

no why not have some fun with these two threads

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157489.0;all   free pick at the date

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0;all  free pick at the price.

you could get lucky cost is zip


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 25, 2015, 02:39:42 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?

no why not have some fun with these two threads

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157489.0;all   free pick at the date

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0;all  free pick at the price.

you could get lucky cost is zip

I think part of reason of making this thread is to worry other makers.  They were smart to keep same nm and master it.  I think they will be able to make a lot by doing this.

I still wonder on time frame though.  Once they get producing them I predict a lot coming fast of the new product.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: -droid- on August 25, 2015, 06:44:52 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?

no why not have some fun with these two threads

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157489.0;all   free pick at the date

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0;all  free pick at the price.

you could get lucky cost is zip

I think part of reason of making this thread is to worry other makers.  They were smart to keep same nm and master it.  I think they will be able to make a lot by doing this.

I still wonder on time frame though.  Once they get producing them I predict a lot coming fast of the new product.


Well I think with the smaller nm chips there's a huge problem of power consumption.. Intel is dealing with this now on their new gen stuff in the works.. So Bitmain is the winner here even with LKETC and their 14nm.. The power draw from their new chip will be comparable to bitmains fully custom 28nm


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 25, 2015, 06:48:20 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?

no why not have some fun with these two threads

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157489.0;all   free pick at the date

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0;all  free pick at the price.

you could get lucky cost is zip

I think part of reason of making this thread is to worry other makers.  They were smart to keep same nm and master it.  I think they will be able to make a lot by doing this.

I still wonder on time frame though.  Once they get producing them I predict a lot coming fast of the new product.


Well I think with the smaller nm chips there's a huge problem of power consumption.. Intel is dealing with this now on their new gen stuff in the works.. So Bitmain is the winner here even with LKETC and their 14nm.. The power draw from their new chip will be comparable to bitmains fully custom 28nm

Especially when you consider the difference in production cost. It's probably of different magnitude. 14nm could definitively be able to laugh at 28nm in W/GH ratio if properly optimized but i don't think the development cost is going to be able to compete.

As usual, China win with cheap mass production.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: elrippo on August 25, 2015, 07:20:46 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?

no why not have some fun with these two threads

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157489.0;all   free pick at the date

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0;all  free pick at the price.

you could get lucky cost is zip

I think part of reason of making this thread is to worry other makers.  They were smart to keep same nm and master it.  I think they will be able to make a lot by doing this.

I still wonder on time frame though.  Once they get producing them I predict a lot coming fast of the new product.


Well I think with the smaller nm chips there's a huge problem of power consumption.. Intel is dealing with this now on their new gen stuff in the works.. So Bitmain is the winner here even with LKETC and their 14nm.. The power draw from their new chip will be comparable to bitmains fully custom 28nm

Especially when you consider the difference in production cost. It's probably of different magnitude. 14nm could definitively be able to laugh at 28nm in W/GH ratio if properly optimized but i don't think the development cost is going to be able to compete.

As usual, China win with cheap mass production.

Please do not forget TSMC from Taiwan, others from Singapour and south Korea. China is not the biggest....


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 25, 2015, 08:03:31 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?

no why not have some fun with these two threads

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157489.0;all   free pick at the date

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0;all  free pick at the price.

you could get lucky cost is zip

I think part of reason of making this thread is to worry other makers.  They were smart to keep same nm and master it.  I think they will be able to make a lot by doing this.

I still wonder on time frame though.  Once they get producing them I predict a lot coming fast of the new product.


Well I think with the smaller nm chips there's a huge problem of power consumption.. Intel is dealing with this now on their new gen stuff in the works.. So Bitmain is the winner here even with LKETC and their 14nm.. The power draw from their new chip will be comparable to bitmains fully custom 28nm

Especially when you consider the difference in production cost. It's probably of different magnitude. 14nm could definitively be able to laugh at 28nm in W/GH ratio if properly optimized but i don't think the development cost is going to be able to compete.

As usual, China win with cheap mass production.

Please do not forget TSMC from Taiwan, others from Singapour and south Korea. China is not the biggest....

There are lot's of places with cheap to do the production.  But not all the countries really have the buisness's to do it.   Producing chips is something not all of the countries you listed I think can do.

China has kinda taken over on a lot.  They are just able to make it cheaper with many factors effecting it.

One thing with BTC so low I don't see a reason for them to be rushing to production.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 25, 2015, 09:15:07 AM
On the box fan thing, just get a standard 20x20 furnace filter and fit it to the input of the fan - suction from the fan will hold it in place and it's a GOOD fit for most common box fans like that Lasko one poster linked. No need for special "fan filters".

 The one issue with putting fan filters on the S5 fans it that they reduce airflow noticeably. Good for dust reduction IN the unit, but NOT GOOD for keeping them cool. Better to keep the dust out of the room entirely IMO.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 25, 2015, 09:22:19 AM
On the box fan thing, just get a standard 20x20 furnace filter and fit it to the input of the fan - suction from the fan will hold it in place and it's a GOOD fit for most common box fans like that Lasko one poster linked. No need for special "fan filters".

 The one issue with putting fan filters on the S5 fans it that they reduce airflow noticeably. Good for dust reduction IN the unit, but NOT GOOD for keeping them cool. Better to keep the dust out of the room entirely IMO.

That sound a bit expensive, i don't know if you can get those furnace filter for cheap. On ebay you can get boxfan filter net for a few dollars for a pack of them lasting 1month+. If you're going to spend significant money on filter, i'd go with a washable filter.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: elrippo on August 25, 2015, 10:20:18 AM
Thanks Bitmain for creating a next-gen product for home miners!

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but is there an ETA yet for when the S7 will be available?

no why not have some fun with these two threads

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157489.0;all   free pick at the date

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0;all  free pick at the price.

you could get lucky cost is zip

I think part of reason of making this thread is to worry other makers.  They were smart to keep same nm and master it.  I think they will be able to make a lot by doing this.

I still wonder on time frame though.  Once they get producing them I predict a lot coming fast of the new product.


Well I think with the smaller nm chips there's a huge problem of power consumption.. Intel is dealing with this now on their new gen stuff in the works.. So Bitmain is the winner here even with LKETC and their 14nm.. The power draw from their new chip will be comparable to bitmains fully custom 28nm

Especially when you consider the difference in production cost. It's probably of different magnitude. 14nm could definitively be able to laugh at 28nm in W/GH ratio if properly optimized but i don't think the development cost is going to be able to compete.

As usual, China win with cheap mass production.

Please do not forget TSMC from Taiwan, others from Singapour and south Korea. China is not the biggest....

There are lot's of places with cheap to do the production.  But not all the countries really have the buisness's to do it.   Producing chips is something not all of the countries you listed I think can do.

China has kinda taken over on a lot.  They are just able to make it cheaper with many factors effecting it.

One thing with BTC so low I don't see a reason for them to be rushing to production.

Well the biggest countries are China, US, Taiwan, Singapour  ;)
EU is not really a potential  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: ZenFr on August 25, 2015, 10:45:40 AM
eh eh... and a USB stick with this BM1385 ?
For a few dollars :-).


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 25, 2015, 10:54:50 AM
eh eh... and a USB stick with this BM1385 ?
For a few dollars :-).

That'd be nice. I will get one of the BM1384 one soon. Hopefully sidehack gets his hand on some 1385s.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 25, 2015, 02:16:16 PM
There's pretty much no way Bitmain will let any BM1385 into the wild before their S7 is shipping. I also won't build a stick off it until I'm out of BM1384 sticks. That said, it'd be pretty cool to have a 40GH stickminer. We'll probably focus on a 4-6 chip pod, maybe one you can stick a fairly generic CPU cooler on.

Bitmain - thanks for posting the BM1385 datasheet with actually good info. I'm liking the pinout and integrated features so far. It's gonna be good to see these things working.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on August 25, 2015, 02:23:51 PM
eh eh... and a USB stick with this BM1385 ?
For a few dollars :-).

That'd be nice. I will get one of the BM1384 one soon. Hopefully sidehack gets his hand on some 1385s.

A sidehack 1385 miner in time for christmas 2015 would be nice.

Even in time for my birthday in Jan 2016 works for me


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 25, 2015, 02:33:40 PM
eh eh... and a USB stick with this BM1385 ?
For a few dollars :-).

That'd be nice. I will get one of the BM1384 one soon. Hopefully sidehack gets his hand on some 1385s.

A sidehack 1385 miner in time for christmas 2015 would be nice.

Even in time for my birthday in Jan 2016 works for me

That would be dope. However i believe sidehack couldn't get more than a prototype going by then assuming he gets the BM1385 fairly soon. :(


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 25, 2015, 02:47:54 PM
I plan to have a working prototype (hardware at least) within 30 days from receiving sample chips.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 25, 2015, 02:55:28 PM
I plan to have a working prototype (hardware at least) within 30 days from receiving sample chips.
Dealing with the chips prior does any of the other hardware need to be changed or is it as simple as using the same stick and just switch chips and gaining the performance.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 25, 2015, 03:04:18 PM
I plan to have a working prototype of a multi-chip full board, not a stick.

I'm not sure yet how the protocol changes, but that's software-level. Node-level voltages change, inter-node level shifters change, no 0.9V LDO required per node, fewer bypass caps per chip required. The footprint is also quite different (and quite better, my opinion). If your question is "can you use the same PCB and drop the new chip on it" the answer is "definitely not". But the required changes aren't that big.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 25, 2015, 03:34:42 PM
I plan to have a working prototype of a multi-chip full board, not a stick.

I'm not sure yet how the protocol changes, but that's software-level. Node-level voltages change, inter-node level shifters change, no 0.9V LDO required per node, fewer bypass caps per chip required. The footprint is also quite different (and quite better, my opinion). If your question is "can you use the same PCB and drop the new chip on it" the answer is "definitely not". But the required changes aren't that big.

I would love to see you come out with some boards.   Your thumb stick miner works great, love the feeling that it's from a growing company made out of this site.

I hope to see you one day have your own models and hopefully range of products :).  I would love a nice blade if price is right.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: RichBC on August 25, 2015, 06:13:01 PM
I plan to have a working prototype of a multi-chip full board, not a stick.

I'm not sure yet how the protocol changes, but that's software-level. Node-level voltages change, inter-node level shifters change, no 0.9V LDO required per node, fewer bypass caps per chip required. The footprint is also quite different (and quite better, my opinion). If your question is "can you use the same PCB and drop the new chip on it" the answer is "definitely not". But the required changes aren't that big.

Nice that they have integrated the 0.9V LDO, although that was only a potential divider in the S5. I assume you will still need an external 1.8V LDO for the Analog PLL supply? I wonder, as I assume in S7 we will see another string design, if they considered incorporating the level shifters?

Does at first glance the more comprehensive protocol spec agree with what you have found on the BM1384?

Rich


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Meech on August 25, 2015, 06:13:10 PM
I think most initial companies producing miners were forum members before asics arrived.  Back then was more of a hobby with potential.  But yes very pleasing to have open dialect with someone who starts at ground level. 


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 25, 2015, 07:08:40 PM
It's not explicitly stated in the data sheet, but it looks like there are two sets of com pins - one for local potential, and one with integrated level shifting.

You'd still need the 1.8V LDO per node for IO voltages, and to power the 0.9V PLL LDO.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: RichBC on August 25, 2015, 07:39:05 PM
Yes I am sure you are right on the level shifting, another nice component reduction.

On detail you could help me with, I am in the middle of repairing an S5 board. I had assumed that the address inputs would have some grounded pins giving each chip a unique address, however they seem to be unconnected, so I assume that software addressing is used? Just wondered "slimply" how that works? I see that BM1385 does not mention SW addressing but assume that is an omission?

Rich


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: sidehack on August 25, 2015, 07:50:47 PM
I've never seen the BM1384 to really care what address each chip was given. Each chip is a comm relay, passing its input on to the next chip. Since we didn't really have protocol data before BM1385 datasheet was released, and since the software was Novak's job, I'm not entirely sure how work is divvied up on a per-chip basis. I was also surprised to see the S5 boards don't individually address chips, but not as surprised after testing addressing on a two-chip breakout board and realizing it pretty much didn't matter. So really I don't have an answer to your question.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: RichBC on August 25, 2015, 07:56:23 PM
Thanks, that's good enough for me if everything just works.  :) Had just expected to see some address pins grounded.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: adaseb on August 25, 2015, 08:32:15 PM
I haven't read all these 14 pages, any idea when approx an actual miner might be released?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 25, 2015, 08:33:07 PM
I haven't read all these 14 pages, any idea when approx an actual miner might be released?

No indication yet.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kingcolex on August 25, 2015, 10:05:32 PM
I haven't read all these 14 pages, any idea when approx an actual miner might be released?
It is all assumptions so far but I am guessing in a couple weeks we will get our announcement with sales, so by the time you see a lot of US distributors selling it will be another week or two after that.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Blawpaw on August 25, 2015, 10:45:14 PM
Can we expect the S7 miners to still be profitable after the Bitcoin halving or will we still be seeing new and improved chips before that?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alh on August 25, 2015, 10:53:00 PM
Can we expect the S7 miners to still be profitable after the Bitcoin halving or will we still be seeing new and improved chips before that?

There is no reasonable answer to this question at this time, nor even after the the S7 produced. There are at least 5 variables that determine it's profitability 10 months from now (roughly the halving  date).

1) When it's delivered.

2) It's power consumption

3) It's hashrate.

4) What the BTC price is after halving.

5) The difficulty after halving or shortly thereafter.

6) What your electricity price is. If it's $.10 or higher now, it almost certainly won't be profitable except briefly at introduction.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: scyth33 on August 25, 2015, 10:54:43 PM
slush pool hashrate increased by 10ph/s in the last 24 hours... new miners being tested?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 25, 2015, 10:55:13 PM
Can we expect the S7 miners to still be profitable after the Bitcoin halving or will we still be seeing new and improved chips before that?

If halving happened right now, with this diffuculty, the profibility of S7 would be exactly the same of S5 right now as it seems like it is using half the energy an s5 uses. But as we are talking about future, calculations cant exactly be accurate and it would involve assumptions.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: generalt on August 26, 2015, 12:25:02 AM
slush pool hashrate increased by 10ph/s in the last 24 hours... new miners being tested?

I imagine that bitmain would test on their own pool.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 26, 2015, 01:52:41 AM
I haven't read all these 14 pages, any idea when approx an actual miner might be released?

No indication yet.


Third Q of 2015 which usually falls over into the 4th Q . so to say when no one really knows when but bitmain they have some kind of set date, if i had to guess maybe by the end of OCT at the latest if not then, or before, then around Xmas with a discount . :) .


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 26, 2015, 01:57:04 AM
slush pool hashrate increased by 10ph/s in the last 24 hours... new miners being tested?


That's not bitmain if it was like some one else said they would be on there own pool or off some were we don't know of.

 when the S7 hit well know for sure count on that.




whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size . There face book page explains it all .  no more off topic  sorry this is and isn't .


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: edonkey on August 26, 2015, 03:43:46 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 26, 2015, 03:46:49 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.

Is it a XT port or a BIP101 port? Because those arent the same thing. At all.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alh on August 26, 2015, 03:57:41 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.

Is it a XT port or a BIP101 port? Because those arent the same thing. At all.

I don't think it's easy to tell which ports folks are using on Slush. The one hint I have found is under the "Pool Statisitics" tab is a chart with PH rate graphs broken out with BIP101 as one of the labels. I don't see an XT labeled line. My simplistic understanding is that SLUSH is essentially "labeling" blocks according to which pool you use. I think that BIP101 is the moniker that he's using at this time, but the whole XT/BIP101/Blocksize fiasco is terribly confusing for most folks. It's quite possible I have this wrong, as I expect about 90% of the miners in the world do.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 26, 2015, 04:00:47 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.

Is it a XT port or a BIP101 port? Because those arent the same thing. At all.

I don't think it's easy to tell which ports folks are using on Slush. The one hint I have found is under the "Pool Statisitics" tab is a chart with PH rate graphs broken out with BIP101 as one of the labels. I don't see an XT labeled line. My simplistic understanding is that SLUSH is essentially "labeling" blocks according to which pool you use. I think that BIP101 is the moniker that he's using at this time, but the whole XT/BIP101/Blocksize fiasco is terribly confusing for most folks. It's quite possible I have this wrong, as I expect about 90% of the miners in the world do.

Yes it is horribly confusing. Because many confuse XT with BIP100 or BIP101, they thing "Oh they all bring block increase so its all the same and finally there's actual code that was released that could do it! Wowe!" and they miss the whole fact XT include non related code as well.

It would be very nice to not see whales and big pools obfuscate their vote for XT by labeling it BIP10X. Hopefully the S7 hash stays out of it too.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 26, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.

Is it a XT port or a BIP101 port? Because those arent the same thing. At all.

I don't think it's easy to tell which ports folks are using on Slush. The one hint I have found is under the "Pool Statisitics" tab is a chart with PH rate graphs broken out with BIP101 as one of the labels. I don't see an XT labeled line. My simplistic understanding is that SLUSH is essentially "labeling" blocks according to which pool you use. I think that BIP101 is the moniker that he's using at this time, but the whole XT/BIP101/Blocksize fiasco is terribly confusing for most folks. It's quite possible I have this wrong, as I expect about 90% of the miners in the world do.

Yes it is horribly confusing. Because many confuse XT with BIP100 or BIP101, they thing "Oh they all bring block increase so its all the same and finally there's actual code that was released that could do it! Wowe!" and they miss the whole fact XT include non related code as well.

Only the BIP101 part of XT would cause a hardfork. So from the pool's perspective it makes sense to vote for/against that specific BIP, whether it's implemented in XT or in Core.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 26, 2015, 04:24:27 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.

Is it a XT port or a BIP101 port? Because those arent the same thing. At all.

I don't think it's easy to tell which ports folks are using on Slush. The one hint I have found is under the "Pool Statisitics" tab is a chart with PH rate graphs broken out with BIP101 as one of the labels. I don't see an XT labeled line. My simplistic understanding is that SLUSH is essentially "labeling" blocks according to which pool you use. I think that BIP101 is the moniker that he's using at this time, but the whole XT/BIP101/Blocksize fiasco is terribly confusing for most folks. It's quite possible I have this wrong, as I expect about 90% of the miners in the world do.

Yes it is horribly confusing. Because many confuse XT with BIP100 or BIP101, they thing "Oh they all bring block increase so its all the same and finally there's actual code that was released that could do it! Wowe!" and they miss the whole fact XT include non related code as well.

Only the BIP101 part of XT would cause a hardfork. So from the pool's perspective it makes sense to vote for/against that specific BIP, whether it's implemented in XT or in Core.

I understand why they're classed together then, but i wouldn't personally. I'd say XT is a step worser.

But anyways, i think avoiding the hard fork way is the way to go. With a strict implemention of BIP100, i think we would be better off.

I hope Bitmain will feel that way too, since with their size, they can basically prevent it from happening since i think BIP100 would need over 75% of block for 10 days strait?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 26, 2015, 04:37:33 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.

Is it a XT port or a BIP101 port? Because those arent the same thing. At all.

I don't think it's easy to tell which ports folks are using on Slush. The one hint I have found is under the "Pool Statisitics" tab is a chart with PH rate graphs broken out with BIP101 as one of the labels. I don't see an XT labeled line. My simplistic understanding is that SLUSH is essentially "labeling" blocks according to which pool you use. I think that BIP101 is the moniker that he's using at this time, but the whole XT/BIP101/Blocksize fiasco is terribly confusing for most folks. It's quite possible I have this wrong, as I expect about 90% of the miners in the world do.

Yes it is horribly confusing. Because many confuse XT with BIP100 or BIP101, they thing "Oh they all bring block increase so its all the same and finally there's actual code that was released that could do it! Wowe!" and they miss the whole fact XT include non related code as well.

Only the BIP101 part of XT would cause a hardfork. So from the pool's perspective it makes sense to vote for/against that specific BIP, whether it's implemented in XT or in Core.

I understand why they're classed together then, but i wouldn't personally. I'd say XT is a step worser.

But anyways, i think avoiding the hard fork way is the way to go. With a strict implemention of BIP100, i think we would be better off.

I hope Bitmain will feel that way too, since with their size, they can basically prevent it from happening since i think BIP100 would need over 75% of block for 10 days strait?

BIP100 would need a hard fork too. It has a different way of adjusting the block size - 90% majority, continuous voting by pools.

BIP101 is the one that needs 75% and it's looking at the last 1000 blocks (~7 days), starting in January. There is no voting after that, block size set to 8MB then doubles every 2 years.

The whole thing is mostly political. I'm guessing big pools would prefer BIP100 as they could wield influence with voting. For the little guy BIP101 with its predictable schedule works fine.

Anyway, this is getting off topic, sorry.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Chris_Sabian on August 26, 2015, 05:04:12 PM
whats happening on slash pool is the voting for bigger blocks size .

That's what I thought at first too. But if you look at the pool stats this whale is not pointed at the BIP101 port. And it is a whale, since it's got over 12 PH/s.

Is it a XT port or a BIP101 port? Because those arent the same thing. At all.

I don't think it's easy to tell which ports folks are using on Slush. The one hint I have found is under the "Pool Statisitics" tab is a chart with PH rate graphs broken out with BIP101 as one of the labels. I don't see an XT labeled line. My simplistic understanding is that SLUSH is essentially "labeling" blocks according to which pool you use. I think that BIP101 is the moniker that he's using at this time, but the whole XT/BIP101/Blocksize fiasco is terribly confusing for most folks. It's quite possible I have this wrong, as I expect about 90% of the miners in the world do.

Yes it is horribly confusing. Because many confuse XT with BIP100 or BIP101, they thing "Oh they all bring block increase so its all the same and finally there's actual code that was released that could do it! Wowe!" and they miss the whole fact XT include non related code as well.

It would be very nice to not see whales and big pools obfuscate their vote for XT by labeling it BIP10X. Hopefully the S7 hash stays out of it too.

This is what happened to me.  I got both BIP101 and BIP100 confused and thought that there was finally a consensus. I've only been following the debate off and on.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: -droid- on August 26, 2015, 08:36:44 PM
i dont really understand the difference between the two, ill have to do some more research


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: RoadStress on August 27, 2015, 12:18:11 AM
Is this "BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385" or "Let's have bigger blocks discussion" ?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: lovenlifelarge on August 27, 2015, 05:11:39 AM
Drop the block size talk its off topic!

Hey bitmain

What about a 6th machine @ 1380w keeping it insides the normal power range for most people without needing custom power solutions..

Make a speed setting that lets users have a max speed version & an alternate speed setting that uses max efficiency to give this miner extra life!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit : Just use the newer 1600w power supply u already have in stock...

Just ease off on the fan noise.. 50db to 60db would be great..

And to ease your pain - Lock it off so no overclocking..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit edit : And lets make the price 6.0btc which means about US$1400...

I'm in at that power & price point, Im sure plenty other would be too...

Make this almost as powerful as the S5+ but at half the power consumption!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 27, 2015, 05:38:09 AM
Drop the block size talk its off topic!

Hey bitmain

What about a 6th machine @ 1380w keeping it insides the normal power range for most people without needing custom power solutions..

Make a speed setting that lets users have a max speed version & an alternate speed setting that uses max efficiency to give this miner extra life!

You could also use 2 power supplies. It's kind of annoying but it work fine.

But i'm expecting the S7 to be within the same form factor/heat dissipation of the S5 so i would be surprised if the watt consumption would be over 690w at the wall at full speed.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alh on August 27, 2015, 07:20:59 AM

But i'm expecting the S7 to be within the same form factor/heat dissipation of the S5 so i would be surprised if the watt consumption would be over 690w at the wall at full speed.

I sure hope you are correct. It's just a bit worrisome that Bitmain introduced the S5+ "monster mine" about the same time. I'd rather they didn't always think "bigger is better".


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 27, 2015, 07:50:00 AM
As long as Bitmain sticks with their recent "string" design choice, the only option for "undervolt" or "overvolt" adjustment is to adjust the supply voltage into the entire hash board.
 In THEORY they could put an adjustable buck converter at the power input to an entire string, but that defeats the whole purpose (simplicity AKA make it CHEAP to build) of a string design.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 27, 2015, 08:06:24 AM

But i'm expecting the S7 to be within the same form factor/heat dissipation of the S5 so i would be surprised if the watt consumption would be over 690w at the wall at full speed.

I sure hope you are correct. It's just a bit worrisome that Bitmain introduced the S5+ "monster mine" about the same time. I'd rather they didn't always think "bigger is better".


some one said some place it was meant it to be a S6 but sense it didn't fit the u case thing they named it s5 +, how true that is can't say but make sense if it is .  which i hope it is or my home mining days are over once my S3 and S5 or any more S5 i may buy are no longer use full and no miner is to be had .


Sense they have listed  the S7 as  using  230 watts per th makes me think or feel positive thought it will start at 2.2/3 th with the same compact size or smaller then the S3 and S5 due to how the S5 + no longer has the really big heat sinks with the same price or cheaper then the S3 or S5 with cheaper shipping , to get more into the mining game .  . selling in lots of so many or just one per order you make more any way and if any one can afford it they make more at least that's how most business sells work if they support the little guy still.


SO that's my hoping, i really enjoy doing it and the fun Ive had learning it.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: aarons6 on August 27, 2015, 09:14:02 AM

But i'm expecting the S7 to be within the same form factor/heat dissipation of the S5 so i would be surprised if the watt consumption would be over 690w at the wall at full speed.

I sure hope you are correct. It's just a bit worrisome that Bitmain introduced the S5+ "monster mine" about the same time. I'd rather they didn't always think "bigger is better".

i hope so too, i want to run with 1 power supply.. not needing any server ones or wire in special 220v outlets.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 27, 2015, 09:17:36 AM
still want my 3kw 15th machine! i'd buy 3!

and make s7 backwards compatible in cooling and screw holes! need to upgrade my c1  ;)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: bigblind on August 27, 2015, 09:23:22 AM
but there is no information about releases yet?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 27, 2015, 09:29:48 AM
but there is no information about releases yet?


None yet only there working on it :) .!!! but if I had to guess it's done there putting it thu the final testing, then once we see the hash rate and diff start going up a lot for no reason that might be why  :) . hash rate more then any thing at first real time testing is still the best way .. then sells will start soon after .


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: bigblind on August 27, 2015, 09:36:23 AM
but there is no information about releases yet?


None yet only there working on it :) .!!! but if I had to guess it's done there putting it thu the final testing, then once we see the hash rate and diff start going up a lot for no reason that might be why  :) . hash rate more then any thing at first real time testing is still the best way .. then sells will start soon after .

So then I bet they will wait with realeasing the machines until October/November. They will want to mine with them for themselves at first I guess.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 27, 2015, 09:45:08 AM
but there is no information about releases yet?


None yet only there working on it :) .!!! but if I had to guess it's done there putting it thu the final testing, then once we see the hash rate and diff start going up a lot for no reason that might be why  :) . hash rate more then any thing at first real time testing is still the best way .. then sells will start soon after .

So then I bet they will wait with realeasing the machines until October/November. They will want to mine with them for themselves at first I guess.

I wouldn't say that either other then they have to test each and everyone before it shipped or some kind of batch test so there is no large amount of returns they will lose money with out good testing. all the S5 i ever bought from them direct were new or seemed new to me . i didn't get a chance to buy one of the used ones, i wanted to but real life living stopped me. but I'm saving for one or two S7 now at what i hope they cost like 340 to 400 each i may sell off a s3 or two real cheap i mean cheap like at S1 prices . :) .


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 27, 2015, 01:08:50 PM
I wouldn't say we will see an obivous spike in hashrate as I think they are still replacing previous generation hardware.  See for instance the S2, and UMISOO(S2) going offline because it is no longer profitable on Hashnest.

I'm just taking an educated guess, but I still think we see the S7 released in September.  Also to guess the price check out this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: elrippo on August 27, 2015, 01:38:35 PM
I wouldn't say we will see an obivous spike in hashrate as I think they are still replacing previous generation hardware.  See for instance the S2, and UMISOO(S2) going offline because it is no longer profitable on Hashnest.

I'm just taking an educated guess, but I still think we see the S7 released in September.  Also to guess the price check out this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0



The Statement from resellers seems to cooperate with your opinion S7 release in September (http://www.antminerdistribution.com/antminer-s7-released-soon/)  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: kae1078 on August 27, 2015, 02:03:30 PM
I wouldn't say we will see an obivous spike in hashrate as I think they are still replacing previous generation hardware.  See for instance the S2, and UMISOO(S2) going offline because it is no longer profitable on Hashnest.

I'm just taking an educated guess, but I still think we see the S7 released in September.  Also to guess the price check out this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0



The Statement from resellers seems to cooperate with your opinion S7 release in September (http://www.antminerdistribution.com/antminer-s7-released-soon/)  ;D

Let hope prices are competitive


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 27, 2015, 03:52:55 PM
I wouldn't say we will see an obivous spike in hashrate as I think they are still replacing previous generation hardware.  See for instance the S2, and UMISOO(S2) going offline because it is no longer profitable on Hashnest.

I'm just taking an educated guess, but I still think we see the S7 released in September.  Also to guess the price check out this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0

The Statement from resellers seems to cooperate with your opinion S7 release in September (http://www.antminerdistribution.com/antminer-s7-released-soon/)  ;D

Let hope prices are competitive
Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 27, 2015, 04:49:21 PM
I wouldn't say we will see an obivous spike in hashrate as I think they are still replacing previous generation hardware.  See for instance the S2, and UMISOO(S2) going offline because it is no longer profitable on Hashnest.

I'm just taking an educated guess, but I still think we see the S7 released in September.  Also to guess the price check out this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0

The Statement from resellers seems to cooperate with your opinion S7 release in September (http://www.antminerdistribution.com/antminer-s7-released-soon/)  ;D

Let hope prices are competitive
Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


very first page says how much per TH :) .. of his thread.


That release date  reminds me of a MS release or game release . lol


   
At the wall power consumption AntMiner S7  230W/TH  


were all guessing on the a mount of speed it ships with .  why not  340 to 400, S3 and S5 were amazing to and priced right .


If anyone noticed they left out the S2 and S4 and S5 + on the  front page which make is even more positive for everyone . but I'm hopping


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 27, 2015, 07:14:41 PM
Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.
very first page says how much per TH :) .. of his thread.


That release date  reminds me of a MS release or game release . lol

   
At the wall power consumption AntMiner S7  230W/TH  


were all guessing on the a mount of speed it ships with .  why not  340 to 400, S3 and S5 were amazing to and priced right .


If anyone noticed they left out the S2 and S4 and S5 + on the  front page which make is even more positive for everyone . but I'm hopping
I know it shows how much per Th/s, but not how many Th/s  ;).  My hope is that it is over a 2 Th/s machine with those efficiencies.

They leave out the S2 bc it uses the same chip as the S1 (BM1380), S4 uses the same as the S3+ (BM1382), and S5+ uses the same as the S5 (BM1384).


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Swimmer63 on August 27, 2015, 07:37:25 PM
Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.
very first page says how much per TH :) .. of his thread.


That release date  reminds me of a MS release or game release . lol

   
At the wall power consumption AntMiner S7  230W/TH  


were all guessing on the a mount of speed it ships with .  why not  340 to 400, S3 and S5 were amazing to and priced right .


If anyone noticed they left out the S2 and S4 and S5 + on the  front page which make is even more positive for everyone . but I'm hopping
I know it shows how much per Th/s, but not how many Th/s  ;).  My hope is that it is over a 2 Th/s machine with those efficiencies.

They leave out the S2 bc it uses the same chip as the S1 (BM1380), S4 uses the same as the S3+ (BM1382), and S5+ uses the same as the S5 (BM1384).

Can we assume this miner will generate half the amount of heat as an S5 if were to have the same number of EDIT chips Th/s?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: toptek on August 27, 2015, 07:48:13 PM
Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.
very first page says how much per TH :) .. of his thread.


That release date  reminds me of a MS release or game release . lol

   
At the wall power consumption AntMiner S7  230W/TH  


were all guessing on the a mount of speed it ships with .  why not  340 to 400, S3 and S5 were amazing to and priced right .


If anyone noticed they left out the S2 and S4 and S5 + on the  front page which make is even more positive for everyone . but I'm hopping
I know it shows how much per Th/s, but not how many Th/s  ;).  My hope is that it is over a 2 Th/s machine with those efficiencies.



They leave out the S2 bc it uses the same chip as the S1 (BM1380), S4 uses the same as the S3+ (BM1382), and S5+ uses the same as the S5 (BM1384).



i well  aware of that and that's why  but not the same power usage is my point it does  say s3 +  aren't  they really the same  s3 and s3 +  . at least i replaced a s3 + board with a reg s3 board i bought off ebay that works just  like a S3 + but that's not the point im trying to make I'm trying to be very positive  and not prove any one wrong or right . i did miss word  my comment my bad and sorry .
 


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 27, 2015, 07:49:49 PM
..........................

Can we assume this miner will generate half the amount of heat as an S5 if were to have the same number of EDIT chips Th/s?

a bit over half, but it wont be at the same hash speed 1000% ;)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 27, 2015, 07:59:08 PM
i well  aware of that and that's why  but not the same power usage is my point it does  say s3 +  aren't  they really the same  s3 and s3 +  . at least i replaced a s3 + board with a reg s3 board i bought off ebay that works just  like a S3 + but that's not the point im trying to make I'm trying to be very positive  and not prove any one wrong or right .
Sorry, I had a hard time understand what you were trying to get across.  I'm with you on the being positive!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: RoadStress on August 27, 2015, 09:46:04 PM
but there is no information about releases yet?

They are either building/upgrading their own mine or they have the results from a small batch of test chips which means that it will take 2-3 more months for the real miners.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 27, 2015, 09:49:15 PM
but there is no information about releases yet?

They are either building/upgrading their own mine or they have the results from a small batch of test chips which means that it will take 2-3 more months for the real miners.

Assuming they released their chip data as soon as they got it, which i highly doubt. They have no incentives to release something new at the moment. The chip data just seemed timed to hit the lesser ASIC maker with "We'll kill you again if you try anything."

Really.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: OgNasty on August 27, 2015, 10:10:36 PM
but there is no information about releases yet?

They are either building/upgrading their own mine or they have the results from a small batch of test chips which means that it will take 2-3 more months for the real miners.

Test chips is what I assumed.  While I'm sure their test batch of chips is going strong already in their own mine, I don't think we'll see an S7 miner ship before October 1st.  


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: flikflak on August 27, 2015, 10:55:15 PM
^^ you guys really think so? Even if they got 200-1000 sample chips, that would make 32.5 TH. So what? Antpool is still @70 PH/s. And afaik other big pools haven't increased their hashrate significantly (well maybe a few smaller ones did).


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on August 27, 2015, 11:07:16 PM
^^ you guys really think so? Even if they got 200-1000 sample chips, that would make 32.5 TH. So what? Antpool is still @70 PH/s. And afaik other big pools haven't increased their hashrate significantly (well maybe a few smaller ones did).

I wouldn't put aside the probability of Bitmain owning private mines. Keeping them off "the grid" is probably the best way to keep good control over Bitcoin from the miner side. Those mines would give them a lot of leeway on their actions.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: OgNasty on August 27, 2015, 11:20:44 PM
^^ you guys really think so? Even if they got 200-1000 sample chips, that would make 32.5 TH. So what? Antpool is still @70 PH/s. And afaik other big pools haven't increased their hashrate significantly (well maybe a few smaller ones did).

I didn't say I thought they had a huge amount of hashrate with the new chips already.

If I were to make a guess, it would be that they got working sample chips, tested them, and then converted a massive amount of BTC for a huge order of BM1385 chips.  Hence why we saw an enormous rate drop around the time of the press release.  If that were the case, I would find it hard to believe that they could have miners shipping out prior to October.  They even could have generated a nice discount for themselves by shorting the market just prior to cashing out for the new chips.

Granted this is all just speculation from my imagination, but it appears to be the most reasonable scenario in my mind and makes much more sense than XT (which was DOA in my opinion) being the cause for the recent "flash crash."


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 27, 2015, 11:46:04 PM
^^ you guys really think so? Even if they got 200-1000 sample chips, that would make 32.5 TH. So what? Antpool is still @70 PH/s. And afaik other big pools haven't increased their hashrate significantly (well maybe a few smaller ones did).

I didn't say I thought they had a huge amount of hashrate with the new chips already.

If I were to make a guess, it would be that they got working sample chips, tested them, and then converted a massive amount of BTC for a huge order of BM1385 chips.  Hence why we saw an enormous rate drop around the time of the press release.  If that were the case, I would find it hard to believe that they could have miners shipping out prior to October.  They even could have generated a nice discount for themselves by shorting the market just prior to cashing out for the new chips.

Granted this is all just speculation from my imagination, but it appears to be the most reasonable scenario in my mind and makes much more sense than XT (which was DOA in my opinion) being the cause for the recent "flash crash."

I am kinda tired of XT to be honest.  I really wish I could know if those main people thought they were going to get adoption.  It seems like a way to get certain people in the news and make them seem important.

I believe in optional acceptance of size, not forced. But that is for another day I guess.  But as far as bitmain it is scary they have enough internal information that could easily be used in gaming the market.  They have got there through business moves.  But I'm not sure I want them at that position long term.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: dogie on August 28, 2015, 12:32:01 AM
^^ you guys really think so? Even if they got 200-1000 sample chips, that would make 32.5 TH. So what? Antpool is still @70 PH/s. And afaik other big pools haven't increased their hashrate significantly (well maybe a few smaller ones did).

I wouldn't put aside the probability of Bitmain owning private mines. Keeping them off "the grid" is probably the best way to keep good control over Bitcoin from the miner side. Those mines would give them a lot of leeway on their actions.

That's not really how they roll. They likely manage a few farms for private clients (because why not, its cheaper) but they're reasonably transparent about their hashpower. They're also not interested in bullying the network, if the overwhelming majority [of the other power] is voting one way, they'll follow unless its suicide.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 28, 2015, 07:13:34 AM
^^ you guys really think so? Even if they got 200-1000 sample chips, that would make 32.5 TH. So what? Antpool is still @70 PH/s. And afaik other big pools haven't increased their hashrate significantly (well maybe a few smaller ones did).

I wouldn't put aside the probability of Bitmain owning private mines. Keeping them off "the grid" is probably the best way to keep good control over Bitcoin from the miner side. Those mines would give them a lot of leeway on their actions.

That's not really how they roll. They likely manage a few farms for private clients (because why not, its cheaper) but they're reasonably transparent about their hashpower. They're also not interested in bullying the network, if the overwhelming majority [of the other power] is voting one way, they'll follow unless its suicide.

I don't know if I would say they are transparent at all.  They are pretty darn secretive on their mines.   I remember when they tried to sell one they said you could not even visit it even if you bought the whole thing.

So open and clear I don't think so.  Unless your talking about something like hashnest.  But the private farms are pretty secretive.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 28, 2015, 09:02:38 AM

Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


 The 230watt / th is THE hard figure they've mentioned, though the fine print on that specified chips running at .66 volts.
 Presuming they stick with string design, that DOES specify 18 chips per string.
 It would be VERY VERY iffy for them to try to cram 54 hash chips on one hash board.
 Therefore, the general consensus has been 2 hash boards, 2 strings per chip, appx. 2.3 TH at appx 550 watts ballpark for an S7, at around 4 BTC PLUS shipping (or around $930ish at current BTC pricing). Call it $1000 or so shipped.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Chris_Sabian on August 28, 2015, 02:18:43 PM

Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


 The 230watt / th is THE hard figure they've mentioned, though the fine print on that specified chips running at .66 volts.
 Presuming they stick with string design, that DOES specify 18 chips per string.
 It would be VERY VERY iffy for them to try to cram 54 hash chips on one hash board.
 Therefore, the general consensus has been 2 hash boards, 2 strings per chip, appx. 2.3 TH at appx 550 watts ballpark for an S7, at around 4 BTC PLUS shipping (or around $930ish at current BTC pricing). Call it $1000 or so shipped.


That appears to be a fair assessment.  With those number, with no difficulty increase, ROI is ~300 days.  That is going to be tight with the halving in less than a year and possible difficulty increases.  Bitcoin price again is a huge unknown.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Starin on August 28, 2015, 02:25:55 PM

Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


 The 230watt / th is THE hard figure they've mentioned, though the fine print on that specified chips running at .66 volts.
 Presuming they stick with string design, that DOES specify 18 chips per string.
 It would be VERY VERY iffy for them to try to cram 54 hash chips on one hash board.
 Therefore, the general consensus has been 2 hash boards, 2 strings per chip, appx. 2.3 TH at appx 550 watts ballpark for an S7, at around 4 BTC PLUS shipping (or around $930ish at current BTC pricing). Call it $1000 or so shipped.


That appears to be a fair assessment.  With those number, with no difficulty increase, ROI is ~300 days.  That is going to be tight with the halving in less than a year and possible difficulty increases.  Bitcoin price again is a huge unknown.

Doing the math, what was your energy cost? Considering the halving and diffuculty increase 300 days are too much.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Biodom on August 28, 2015, 03:10:20 PM

Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


 The 230watt / th is THE hard figure they've mentioned, though the fine print on that specified chips running at .66 volts.
 Presuming they stick with string design, that DOES specify 18 chips per string.
 It would be VERY VERY iffy for them to try to cram 54 hash chips on one hash board.
 Therefore, the general consensus has been 2 hash boards, 2 strings per chip, appx. 2.3 TH at appx 550 watts ballpark for an S7, at around 4 BTC PLUS shipping (or around $930ish at current BTC pricing). Call it $1000 or so shipped.


There is absolutely no consensus that it will cost $930, none at all.
$700-750 is much more reasonable for a 2.3Th machine, and will sell twice as many units.
They can get extra $100 by delaying shipment by 2-3 weeks while "testing"


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 28, 2015, 03:14:19 PM

Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


 The 230watt / th is THE hard figure they've mentioned, though the fine print on that specified chips running at .66 volts.
 Presuming they stick with string design, that DOES specify 18 chips per string.
 It would be VERY VERY iffy for them to try to cram 54 hash chips on one hash board.
 Therefore, the general consensus has been 2 hash boards, 2 strings per chip, appx. 2.3 TH at appx 550 watts ballpark for an S7, at around 4 BTC PLUS shipping (or around $930ish at current BTC pricing). Call it $1000 or so shipped.


There is absolutely no consensus that it will cost $930, none at all.
$700-750 is much more reasonable for a 2.3Th machine, and will sell twice as many units.
They can get extra $100 by delaying shipment by 2-3 weeks while "testing"
I was getting ready to type something up to the tune of $930 sounding on the high side.  It really wouldn't follow their pricing trend.  I would expect the range you suggest Biodom, and as I mentioned above anything under $700 would be a bonus.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on August 28, 2015, 05:14:55 PM

Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


 The 230watt / th is THE hard figure they've mentioned, though the fine print on that specified chips running at .66 volts.
 Presuming they stick with string design, that DOES specify 18 chips per string.
 It would be VERY VERY iffy for them to try to cram 54 hash chips on one hash board.
 Therefore, the general consensus has been 2 hash boards, 2 strings per chip, appx. 2.3 TH at appx 550 watts ballpark for an S7, at around 4 BTC PLUS shipping (or around $930ish at current BTC pricing). Call it $1000 or so shipped.


There is absolutely no consensus that it will cost $930, none at all.
$700-750 is much more reasonable for a 2.3Th machine, and will sell twice as many units.
They can get extra $100 by delaying shipment by 2-3 weeks while "testing"
I was getting ready to type something up to the tune of $930 sounding on the high side.  It really wouldn't follow their pricing trend.  I would expect the range you suggest Biodom, and as I mentioned above anything under $700 would be a bonus.

It will likely follow all previous generations.  I suspect a 110/120 2 blade machine on launch with new chip.  I think 1k is on high side.  I suspect it will be a decent amount lower then that.

But it is hard to tell if they come out and no one else has something to compete.  They can do what every they really want.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 28, 2015, 05:25:55 PM
But it is hard to tell if they come out and no one else has something to compete.  They can do what every they really want.

Exactly. Why would they sell it cheap if there is enough demand at a higher price. And if $700 sounds like a good price for many posters here then likely there is going to be enough demand at $1000.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Biodom on August 28, 2015, 10:11:27 PM
But it is hard to tell if they come out and no one else has something to compete.  They can do what every they really want.

Exactly. Why would they sell it cheap if there is enough demand at a higher price. And if $700 sounds like a good price for many posters here then likely there is going to be enough demand at $1000.

they were in a similar position with S3 and S5 (a little less so since they probably wanted to undermine Sp20 as a competitive machine), yet the prices stayed somewhat within reason. Weak yuan/renminbi is also a factor in our favor. When s5 was introduced, everybody thought that it would be more expensive in $$.
I will probably not buy anything above ~3 BTC for ~2.4Th/550-600W.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: aarons6 on August 28, 2015, 10:16:37 PM
i wont buy anything over 1.5 btc..

with return being tight as it is. plus the block half so you will make very little roi before these are useless, and the fact that difficulty will most shoot up as soon as these are released due to everyone with s2 and s3 changing them out its not a good investment.



Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on August 29, 2015, 12:16:59 AM

Do they ever mention what the hashrate will be? Or, just the power consumption per Th/s as 230 watts?  

I may be stretching, but a 2.4+ Th/s machine for <$700 SHIPPED would be amazing.


 The 230watt / th is THE hard figure they've mentioned, though the fine print on that specified chips running at .66 volts.
 Presuming they stick with string design, that DOES specify 18 chips per string.
 It would be VERY VERY iffy for them to try to cram 54 hash chips on one hash board.
 Therefore, the general consensus has been 2 hash boards, 2 strings per chip, appx. 2.3 TH at appx 550 watts ballpark for an S7, at around 4 BTC PLUS shipping (or around $930ish at current BTC pricing). Call it $1000 or so shipped.


That appears to be a fair assessment.  With those number, with no difficulty increase, ROI is ~300 days.  That is going to be tight with the halving in less than a year and possible difficulty increases.  Bitcoin price again is a huge unknown.

Doing the math, what was your energy cost? Considering the halving and diffuculty increase 300 days are too much.

 I think I was figuring 10 cents / watt, but I don't think I factored in diff increases. Someone mentioned somewhere that Bitmain prices their miners to ROI in 250 days without diff increases, so I plugged the numbers I had estimated for TH and watts into that.




 
Quote

 There is absolutely no consensus that it will cost $930, none at all.

 

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159185.0

 Most of the entries seem to be clustering pretty close to 4 Bitcoin - which was worth about $930ish when I posted that price estimate.
 (Edit) Just went back and counted, an outright majority of entries are guessing prices between 3 and 5 BTC, the rest are all over the map and some of the rest are insane (like the ones at 1.something or 11+).

 I'd be HAPPY to see it at 3ish Bitcoin or less, but I don't believe that is even CLOSE to a reasonable expectation after factoring in the additional efficiency vs. the S5 - do note that the last S5 price was right about half of that estimate, do you REALLY think Bitmain isn't going to charge a premium for the DOUBLED efficiency vs. 2 S5s that hash at pretty much the same rate combined?


 
Quote

 But it is hard to tell if they come out and no one else has something to compete.

[/quote

 The only current competition for us non-HUGE mining corps is that Sfards SF100 massively overpriced joke, for now. That will change, but looks like won't be 'till December or whenever Innosilicon released the A3 and miners using it start hitting sales (Lktec has already announced. Innosilicon themselves I'm rather certain will do an update on their Terminator as well, in both SHA256 (A3) and Scrypt (A4) versions.).


 Even at 2% diff increase for the forseeable future (which seems to be about what's happening the last few weeks, about when Bitmain started selling "used" S5 units presumably due to internal production allowing them to replace them with S7s) the S7 should be solidly profitable after the halfing and for quite a while after that. The *S5* will get very very marginal as of the halfing, depending on your electric price.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: ATCkit on August 29, 2015, 01:01:12 AM

I will probably not buy anything above ~3 BTC for ~2.4Th/550-600W.

Depending on electrical costs and the avg price of BTC over the next year, 3 BTC (S&H included) is the max for that size of rig when you include the halving. A safer bet is 2 - 2.5 BTC.

1.5 BTC is more comfortable given the deluge of power that will hit the global hashing network when all these efficient devices hit the market.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 29, 2015, 03:06:41 PM

I will probably not buy anything above ~3 BTC for ~2.4Th/550-600W.

Depending on electrical costs and the avg price of BTC over the next year, 3 BTC (S&H included) is the max for that size of rig when you include the halving. A safer bet is 2 - 2.5 BTC.

1.5 BTC is more comfortable given the deluge of power that will hit the global hashing network when all these efficient devices hit the market.
Well its over 7 BTC.  Twice the size we were anticipating.

https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020150827084021471OHYdwd9D06A0


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 29, 2015, 04:03:55 PM
just as i said: they gave up on miners with psu in case(i might be still wrong about this one)
                      they will sell the middle units like those on s5+ but with the new chip and call it s7(s7+ might be also available very soon)
 ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: d57heinz on August 29, 2015, 04:35:18 PM

I will probably not buy anything above ~3 BTC for ~2.4Th/550-600W.

Depending on electrical costs and the avg price of BTC over the next year, 3 BTC (S&H included) is the max for that size of rig when you include the halving. A safer bet is 2 - 2.5 BTC.

1.5 BTC is more comfortable given the deluge of power that will hit the global hashing network when all these efficient devices hit the market.
Well its over 7 BTC.  Twice the size we were anticipating.

https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020150827084021471OHYdwd9D06A0

Do you know if it went on sale already and sold out?  if not do you have any idea when the sale date is set..  Thanks

Best Regards
d57heinz


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: wlefever on August 29, 2015, 04:50:04 PM
Do you know if it went on sale already and sold out?  if not do you have any idea when the sale date is set..  Thanks

Best Regards
d57heinz
In their S7 thread they said it will be available "soon". It hasn't sold out.

It'll be ready soon :)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1165628.0
"Batch one scheduled shipping date is in late September of 21~30. If shipping out 10 days later than the scheduled one, it won't be considered as delay."


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: d57heinz on August 29, 2015, 04:53:18 PM
Do you know if it went on sale already and sold out?  if not do you have any idea when the sale date is set..  Thanks

Best Regards
d57heinz
In their S7 thread they said it will be available "soon". It hasn't sold out.

It'll be ready soon :)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1165628.0
"Batch one scheduled shipping date is in late September of 21~30. If shipping out 10 days later than the scheduled one, it won't be considered as delay."

Thanks for the info.. ill keep an eye on it..


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: suchmoon on August 29, 2015, 06:37:37 PM
0,216*1.0638 (ideal string design + platinum PSU at peak 94% efficiency) = 0.23
This 230W at wall is to idealistic. Real world numbers will be 250-260W/TH.

230W is at the wall, it includes PSU and any other inefficiencies. They've not been wrong on the previous 3 generations so I'm not sure why they'd get it wrong now.

Looks like they did get it wrong.

Quote
3. Power Efficiency: 0.25 J/GH (at the wall, with AC/DC 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020150827084021471OHYdwd9D06A0


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: stevej on August 29, 2015, 08:32:47 PM
It would take me 6 months to ROI with an S7 here if diff and BTC stayed at current :(
Power is 22.3 cents per KWh in NZ...

Hosted @ 10 cents per kwh or cheaper it would be viable though.. hmm


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tigggger on August 30, 2015, 07:45:13 AM
It would take me 6 months to ROI with an S7 here if diff and BTC stayed at current :(
Power is 22.3 cents per KWh in NZ...

Worse than that (same electric rate as here in the UK it sucks !!!)

Cost: 8 (not including shipping)
Income: 0.04504819
Power: 0.02840316
Net: 0.01664503

8 / 0.01664503 = 480 days

Sorry :)

Hosted @ 10 cents per kwh or cheaper it would be viable though.. hmm

247 Days


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: mavericklm on August 30, 2015, 07:49:23 AM
Difficulty Increment: 0
Electricity Price: 0
Pool Fee: 0

and is getting green after 187 days  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

missing shipping and other taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: tutorialevideo on August 30, 2015, 08:40:41 AM
Difficulty Increment: 0
Electricity Price: 0
Pool Fee: 0

and is getting green after 187 days  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

missing shipping and other taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shipping will be same as for the s5 i guess somehere 100$ and taxes +24% in Romania.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: majestymage on August 30, 2015, 11:38:42 AM
the word is out they are giving some cuts with coupons...let's see


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Tupsu on August 30, 2015, 11:47:49 AM
the word is out they are giving some cuts with coupons...let's see


 Coupons have been sent out.


AntMiner S7 Coupon 100 USD

2015-08-27 00:00:00~2015 - 10-12 00:00:00


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Cyper_BLC on September 27, 2015, 09:06:04 PM
hi,
has any one still have S7 batch2 coupon ?   ::)
if you have these, i want to buy 3 S7. so i need 3 coupon   :-\
my id : Turgan

also i will publish S4 efficiency & chain problem solution pdf soon.
thanks...


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on September 27, 2015, 09:27:47 PM
hi,
has any one still have S7 batch2 coupon ?   ::)
if you have these, i want to buy 3 S7. so i need 3 coupon   :-\
my id : Turgan

also i will publish S4 efficiency & chain problem solution pdf soon.
thanks...

Well there's no "Batch 2" coupon, the coupon all expire on 12th of October. If batch 2 hit by then, then i have one to sell to you at market price, 0.1BTC, feel free to take it to my thread or in PM;
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1194780.msg12538795#msg12538795


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Jake-R on September 29, 2015, 08:35:37 PM
That's a big jump in efficiency  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Abiky on September 29, 2015, 10:20:21 PM
I'm saving most of my earnings to get my hands on the new Antminer S7. The best thing about this miner is energy efficiency so I would save money and reach ROI in no time. This has been added to my wishlist. I think I'll be selling my good old Gridseed GC3355 to earn some extra cash  ::)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notlist3d on September 29, 2015, 11:03:12 PM
I'm saving most of my earnings to get my hands on the new Antminer S7. The best thing about this miner is energy efficiency so I would save money and reach ROI in no time. This has been added to my wishlist. I think I'll be selling my good old Gridseed GC3355 to earn some extra cash  ::)

What is your electricity price?   I don't think of reaching ROI in "no time" happens much anymore.

It's kinda a long game that takes a while.  I miss the 90 day ROI time, now it's in hundreds of days.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Abiky on September 29, 2015, 11:07:45 PM
I'm saving most of my earnings to get my hands on the new Antminer S7. The best thing about this miner is energy efficiency so I would save money and reach ROI in no time. This has been added to my wishlist. I think I'll be selling my good old Gridseed GC3355 to earn some extra cash  ::)

What is your electricity price?   I don't think of reaching ROI in "no time" happens much anymore.

It's kinda a long game that takes a while.  I miss the 90 day ROI time, now it's in hundreds of days.

I think it is $0.08 per kwh. I’m not so sure because usually my parents pay the electricity, but sometimes when I consume a lot of energy, I have to pay it. Still, the less energy consumed the better.  ::)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: UfoRia on September 29, 2015, 11:08:24 PM
It would take me 6 months to ROI with an S7 here if diff and BTC stayed at current :(
Power is 22.3 cents per KWh in NZ...

Hosted @ 10 cents per kwh or cheaper it would be viable though.. hmm

22.3 cents per kWh  :o


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on September 29, 2015, 11:10:03 PM
I'm saving most of my earnings to get my hands on the new Antminer S7. The best thing about this miner is energy efficiency so I would save money and reach ROI in no time. This has been added to my wishlist. I think I'll be selling my good old Gridseed GC3355 to earn some extra cash  ::)

What is your electricity price?   I don't think of reaching ROI in "no time" happens much anymore.

It's kinda a long game that takes a while.  I miss the 90 day ROI time, now it's in hundreds of days.

I think it is $0.08 per kwh. I’m not so sure because usually my parents pay the electricity, but sometimes when I consume a lot of energy, I have to pay it. Still, the less energy consumed the better.  ::)

With free electricity, no difficulty increase, the ROI time is next year in March. Not particularly "in no time" for me. With 0.08 Electricity and 2% increment, you will never break even. Your only strategy for ROI would be to mine it for a bit and then sell it before it devalues.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Abiky on September 29, 2015, 11:18:58 PM
I'm saving most of my earnings to get my hands on the new Antminer S7. The best thing about this miner is energy efficiency so I would save money and reach ROI in no time. This has been added to my wishlist. I think I'll be selling my good old Gridseed GC3355 to earn some extra cash  ::)

What is your electricity price?   I don't think of reaching ROI in "no time" happens much anymore.

It's kinda a long game that takes a while.  I miss the 90 day ROI time, now it's in hundreds of days.

I think it is $0.08 per kwh. I’m not so sure because usually my parents pay the electricity, but sometimes when I consume a lot of energy, I have to pay it. Still, the less energy consumed the better.  ::)

With free electricity, no difficulty increase, the ROI time is next year in March. Not particularly "in no time" for me. With 0.08 Electricity and 2% increment, you will never break even. Your only strategy for ROI would be to mine it for a bit and then sell it before it devalues.

That’s fine. I’ll just mine for a few hours (not 24/7) until the difficulty increases. Later on, I would sell the miner and hopefully buy a better one (when time comes)  ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: UfoRia on September 29, 2015, 11:25:36 PM
With free electricity, no difficulty increase, the ROI time is next year in March. Not particularly "in no time" for me. With 0.08 Electricity and 2% increment, you will never break even. Your only strategy for ROI would be to mine it for a bit and then sell it before it devalues.

DEPENDS ON THE VALUE OF BTC!

When my first batch of s7's come in I will mine and wait around two months to see what happens to the market when all of the big mines start upgrading. If the swing isn't too much I will buy my second batch of s7's or s7+'s(?) and mine a month or two up to the halving. The increase in difficulty isn't concerning me as much as how volatile the market will be leading up to the halving. Depending on the market I will likely sell all of my s7 or s7+s and day trade for a few months.

I pay .085 cents per kWh, so with the difficulty my ROI would be thirteen or fourteen months including almost all overhead at current btc prices, but with eighteen s7's I hope to make one last timed jump out of the mining and sell the s7's. If the specs on the next gen gear are accurate I don't see my continued involvement with mining at all since it will be easier to make coins on the market swings. I see the days ahead of buying coins instead of mining and trading them. :(


Ufo


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: chalkboard17 on October 01, 2015, 03:06:39 AM
With free electricity, no difficulty increase, the ROI time is next year in March. Not particularly "in no time" for me. With 0.08 Electricity and 2% increment, you will never break even. Your only strategy for ROI would be to mine it for a bit and then sell it before it devalues.

DEPENDS ON THE VALUE OF BTC!
Wouldn't it be much better if you just purchase btc and save yourself of the risk of not breaking even + noise  + psu + wire + heat?


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: Jake-R on October 01, 2015, 03:20:22 AM
With free electricity, no difficulty increase, the ROI time is next year in March. Not particularly "in no time" for me. With 0.08 Electricity and 2% increment, you will never break even. Your only strategy for ROI would be to mine it for a bit and then sell it before it devalues.

DEPENDS ON THE VALUE OF BTC!
Wouldn't it be much better if you just purchase btc and save yourself of the risk of not breaking even + noise  + psu + wire + heat?

But where is the fun in that?!! ;D


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: QuintLeo on October 01, 2015, 09:41:29 AM
The fun is in watching your PROFITS roll in while laughing at folks spending tons of money on a miner they're going to LOSE money on if they don't have very cheap electric?

 AKA the fun of WINNING?

 9-)


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on October 01, 2015, 02:45:58 PM
With free electricity, no difficulty increase, the ROI time is next year in March. Not particularly "in no time" for me. With 0.08 Electricity and 2% increment, you will never break even. Your only strategy for ROI would be to mine it for a bit and then sell it before it devalues.

DEPENDS ON THE VALUE OF BTC!
Wouldn't it be much better if you just purchase btc and save yourself of the risk of not breaking even + noise  + psu + wire + heat?

But where is the fun in that?!! ;D

Well you know, if your plan is betting on BTC to raise 20%, you might as well just hodl that 8BTC and i'm pretty sure this result in higher ROI than mining with it under those conditions, but hey, what would i know? I don't hodl. :P


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: lama-hunter on November 28, 2015, 08:49:55 AM
Wow - Dude the New Chips are Incoming :)
Nice to know about ;) The efficientcfy is crazy of the ASic BM1385. i hope there will be another presale batch for preorders and i can be lucky an reach one :P
Anyways what you guys think of this new Chip? U also gonne invest in this?

Would be great to hear about ;)

regards
lama-hunter


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: RichBC on November 28, 2015, 08:57:48 AM
Wow - Dude the New Chips are Incoming :)
Nice to know about ;) The efficientcfy is crazy of the ASic BM1385. i hope there will be another presale batch for preorders and i can be lucky an reach one :P
Anyways what you guys think of this new Chip? U also gonne invest in this?

Would be great to hear about ;)

regards
lama-hunter


You are a little bit behind time here. The BM1385 has been shipping for several Months in 8 Batches now, several threads on the Forum covering the S7.

Rich


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: erk on November 29, 2015, 08:52:31 AM
What I want to see is a U4 with 4x BM1385 chips in it, the S7 is nice but too expensive for a lot of home users.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alh on December 01, 2015, 07:10:43 AM
What I want to see is a U4 with 4x BM1385 chips in it, the S7 is nice but too expensive for a lot of home users.

Yes, most folks on this forum would love to see the BM1385 chip used in something much smaller scale than the S7 (i.e. fewer chips, fewer boards, etc), but so far Bitmain is still pushing variants of the S7at 1100W+.

My feeling is that they are concerned about the impact that the halving will have on the appetite for hash (i.e.new mining hardware sales), and they want to sell as much as they can at a hefty price.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: johny08 on December 03, 2015, 01:13:11 PM
What I want to see is a U4 with 4x BM1385 chips in it, the S7 is nice but too expensive for a lot of home users.

Yes, most folks on this forum would love to see the BM1385 chip used in something much smaller scale than the S7 (i.e. fewer chips, fewer boards, etc), but so far Bitmain is still pushing variants of the S7at 1100W+.

My feeling is that they are concerned about the impact that the halving will have on the appetite for hash (i.e.new mining hardware sales), and they want to sell as much as they can at a hefty price.

yeah, this miner is overpriced. the hardware inside is worth 1000 bucks. 1 TH has the same price as late 2014 but the difficulty rised in that time and in 7 months is the halving, so, not the best deal for us, good one for badmain is guess.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: notabeliever on December 14, 2015, 01:44:20 AM
sorry didn't pay too much attention to what happens with halving in relation too litecoin.

so with bitcoin does the difficulty halve too. My S% really struggles with the difficulty at 79+


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: VirosaGITS on December 14, 2015, 02:35:02 AM
sorry didn't pay too much attention to what happens with halving in relation too litecoin.

so with bitcoin does the difficulty halve too. My S% really struggles with the difficulty at 79+

The difficulty did not and will not halve. At the moment all my antminers are doing great. Even my S1's are profitable at peak electricity cost right now. Hard to complain.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: lama-hunter on December 14, 2015, 02:52:40 AM
Nice nice do you think guys they will build soon the s8 ?  :o  :o

Would be great :D

regards
lama-hunter


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: spazzdla on December 15, 2015, 03:36:29 AM
What I want to see is a U4 with 4x BM1385 chips in it, the S7 is nice but too expensive for a lot of home users.

12 chips.


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: alh on December 17, 2015, 07:15:52 AM
sorry didn't pay too much attention to what happens with halving in relation too litecoin.

so with bitcoin does the difficulty halve too. My S% really struggles with the difficulty at 79+

The immediate impact of the "halving" on difficulty will be zero. Difficulty is determined by the rate at which blocks are solved. not how many bitcoins are produced. The INCOME is what gets halved, not the production of blocks.

Obviously that will impact some folks more than other. If enough gear gets turn off as a result of the reduced income, THEN (and only then), will difficulty fall. Also it will take quite a while for difficulty to fall. It's only when the 2016 blocks take more than 14 days to solve that difficulty will fall.

The difficulty mechanism is quite unlike any other industrial operation we are familiar with. 


Title: Re: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385
Post by: philipma1957 on December 21, 2015, 01:33:51 PM
Bitmain's support SUCKS big time !!!

I received the S5+ (7.7T SUPPOSEDLY) at the beginning of September and I immediately opened a support ticket (5th of Sep.) because the results I got with the miner were AWFUL !
I was waiting for 10+ days for a single reply, and each time their reply was asking me "did you do this, did you do that" although I explained in details what I've done, so they were obviously just stalling.
This took like 3 months of Q & A , going into circle with the same questions over and over , to finally notice that beginning December they CLOSED the ticket like it's been solved!!! I re-opened the ticket 10 days ago - and guess what - NO reply yet !!!

They didn't offer ANY solution for the whole time !!!
They tried to put the blame on the PSU's, so I bought 3 new 1600w PSU's  !!! For nothing !!!
I'm still getting like more than 70.000 HW errors per day showing 6.5T at the max >:(

THE WORST COMPANY WITH THE WORST SUPPORT !!! *E*V*E*R* ! ! !

A simple question what is your freq setting?