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Title: >50% attack Post by: AndrewK on October 10, 2012, 03:42:17 AM This is probably a dead horse... But if anyone wanted to attack bitcoin...
They wouldn't just do it by stockpiling a shitload of asics... They would probably stockpile a more modest/resonable number of asics/fpgas and launch attacks targeting the top pools. Unless I'm thinking about this wrong you would only need to take out the top 3 or 4 pools and you could cut hashrate really substantially. If there is a reason this is not feasible please enlighten me. I am rather new so maybe I'm missing something like... How long you'd have to have greater than 50% network hashrate... etc. Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Stephen Gornick on October 10, 2012, 05:11:51 AM This is probably a dead horse... Past dead. But as long as you took another swing ... They would probably stockpile a more modest/resonable number of asics/fpgas and launch attacks targeting the top pools. More hashing against pools helps the pool rather than hurt them. Or are you talking DDoS, and not doing hashing? Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: AndrewK on October 10, 2012, 11:12:30 AM Denial of service attack of the pools... Reduce overal network hashrate... Then you would need substantially less hashing power to get >50% right?
I am naive about the network.... But can you trace back large solo miners from the network as well via IP? That way you could knock out a couple of them as well... Just thinking outloud. Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Graet on October 10, 2012, 11:32:13 AM yeah old subject is old
all the good mining software allows to set backup pools, pool 1 goes down it automatic switches to another, pool 1 comes up it auto switches back, pool 1 stays down pool 2 goes down it auto switches to pool 3 etc etc some people set 10 pools also most of the smarter miners setup p2pool and then solo as last failovers - they are never not mining move along - nothing to see here :) Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Graet on October 12, 2012, 12:59:06 PM lol
any miner that can read and uses cgminer can set this up - there is an extensive README file in the folder, at times I have even helped people set this up I am not sure why you have such a low opinion of miners you obviously know little of mining or pool operators - extreme opinions though this is an old subject, if you took any effort to look through these forums you would see it well covered Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Graet on October 12, 2012, 02:05:31 PM I wish I had time to help you dispel your confusions
unfortunately I have a life and family to consider you talk like a sock puppet got a reason for all the hate coming from you? Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: jborkl on October 12, 2012, 03:21:35 PM Wow, someone is angry >:(
someone pee pee in your mining cheerios? Diablo miner or Bamt have a very easy to follow install and pool failover. If you need help just ask nice and I would be happy to post some easy to follow instructions for solo or pool mining. If you want to solo mine, download bitcoin client first- then come back in a few hours and say when its done Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Morblias on October 12, 2012, 04:22:19 PM Setting backup pools is so easy a gorilla could do it. You wake up on the wrong side of the bed today subSTRATA?
Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Rubberduckie on October 12, 2012, 07:12:51 PM I wish I had time to help you dispel your confusions unfortunately I have a life and family to consider you talk like a sock puppet got a reason for all the hate coming from you? "Dodge the challenge" attempt No.2 - failed! Hear me out, you irresponsible shit = you should not promote and advertise your asumptions around! Asumptions are mothers of all fuck-ups! Unless you can prove what you posted up there, please, for the sake of Bitcoin longevity, STFU! You or anyone else here showing-off VIP / God-like / whatever statuses can not trick me into thinking you are 100% correct. Moreover, I ain't gonna let you trick others, which include my friends, family and all future generations to come, people who are supposed to reject existing currencies and embrace Bitcoin. You seems to be unaware of responsiblities and consequences. all the good mining software allows to set backup pools, pool 1 goes down it automatic switches to another, pool 1 comes up it auto switches back, pool 1 stays down pool 2 goes down it auto switches to pool 3 etc etc some people set 10 pools also most of the smarter miners setup p2pool and then solo as last failovers - they are never not mining ranting with a bad attitude is going to get you very far or encourage anyone to answer your questions. I'd suggest going back to bed,waking up and starting today again :) Again - proof or STFU! Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: crazyates on October 12, 2012, 08:15:39 PM Between your incoherent and aggressive ramblings, I think I gathered that you want proof that an average user can set up backup pools? Taken from the CGMiner thread, very first post:
Quote MULTIPOOL FAILOVER STRATEGIES WITH MULTIPOOL: A number of different strategies for dealing with multipool setups are available. Each has their advantages and disadvantages so multiple strategies are available by user choice, as per the following list: FAILOVER: The default strategy is failover. This means that if you input a number of pools, it will try to use them as a priority list, moving away from the 1st to the 2nd, 2nd to 3rd and so on. If any of the earlier pools recover, it will move back to the higher priority ones. ROUND ROBIN: This strategy only moves from one pool to the next when the current one falls idle and makes no attempt to move otherwise. ROTATE: This strategy moves at user-defined intervals from one active pool to the next, skipping pools that are idle. LOAD BALANCE: This strategy sends work to all the pools to maintain optimum load. The most efficient pools will tend to get a lot more shares. If any pool falls idle, the rest will tend to take up the slack keeping the miner busy. BALANCE: This strategy monitors the amount of difficulty 1 shares solved for each pool and uses it to try to end up doing the same amount of work for all pools. What more "proof" do you want? It's really not that hard to set up a backup pool. It'll take you more time to register at a second pool than it will to put the settings into cgminer. And furthermore, Graet actually is a VIP in the community. He runs a very successful pool, and is one of the most trusted members around here. Just ask anyone. So I ask you this, who would Bitcointalk miss more, you or him? Unless you can get 50 people to vote for you, than you should be the one who stfu. Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: crazyates on October 12, 2012, 08:37:29 PM I just gave you proof..
Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: crazyates on October 12, 2012, 09:26:16 PM I just gave you proof.. That is a proof Bitcoin network is capable of withstanding >50% attack right now? REALLY??? Anyone with the brain here?However, mining software that can revert to backup pools (or even solo mine as a last resort) makes it harder for an attack to succeed. Those top 5 pools would go down, but the miners wouldn't be turned off. They'd still be hashing, keeping the network alive. That said, if someone were to turn on 50TH/s right now, there's nothing we could do except try to attack them! But by then, it'd be too late. This has been gone over 100 times already, hence why this is considered "old news". So I ask you this, what kind of "proof" were you expecting? Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: sveetsnelda on October 12, 2012, 09:58:35 PM Jesus... I don't have many people ignored on this forum, but subSTRATA immediately made the list. Perma-mute this guy.
Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Morblias on October 12, 2012, 10:40:53 PM So, from your original post:
You mean those 100 miners who know how to set up everything so it works as you described? I think you wouldn't dare to test it out. Mere thought of all you pool owners agree and shut-down your pools for let's say 5 minutes probably scares the shit out of you. which you keep saying proof or stfu, you want proof people are not Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: AndrewBUD on October 13, 2012, 02:04:23 PM Just keep on tapping each other on the back, singing "It's all fine. Bitcoin network is secured, >50% attack is history! We rule!" What a bunch of complete retards. I have nothing more to say here. I don't think you said anything but Wahhh wahhh wheres my mommy..... Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: tcp_rst on October 13, 2012, 02:50:51 PM I propose the forum add a sign at the top saying, "Please don't feed the trolls!"
Everyone just let it go. When someone demands you prove a negative it's just baiting, or ignorance. Considering the tone I'm going to say this is the former. Plus, just check out this person's posts in other threads. Mr. Spongebob Angry Pants apparently gets off on flaming. Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: AndrewBUD on October 13, 2012, 02:51:59 PM I think I should change my nick now...
Sponge Bob Angry Pants :) Nice :) Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: AmDD on October 13, 2012, 05:45:54 PM Jesus... I don't have many people ignored on this forum, but subSTRATA immediately made the list. Perma-mute this guy. I second that! Goodbye! Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Mad7Scientist on October 15, 2012, 04:06:20 AM Just hack in to the top 1 or top 2 mining pools and you have >50% right there.
Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: kjj on October 15, 2012, 03:18:19 PM Denial of service attack of the pools... Reduce overal network hashrate... Then you would need substantially less hashing power to get >50% right? I am naive about the network.... But can you trace back large solo miners from the network as well via IP? That way you could knock out a couple of them as well... Just thinking outloud. I should point out that you are competing with the difficulty, not the network. You would need to take down the big pools, and then hold them down for ~2 weeks before the difficulty adjusted down. Oh, and you wouldn't just need to keep the pools down, you'd have to keep their users from switching to other pools for that whole time too. P.S. subSTRATA, go fuck yourself. Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Serenata on October 17, 2012, 09:24:46 AM You are right to say that the software supports backup pools, but I'm not sure how many people have set it up to backup to p2pool if everything else fails.
The reason for me being sceptic about this is because I've seen huge fails securing email servers, not using two step verification, hard-coding keys into the code and the such. I suppose you can understand what/who I'm talking about. If those peeps, who used to handle too many coins (or other values) in a daily basis, were so careless, what to expect from "smaller" bitcoin players? I'm sure there are plenty of miners with backup plans setup and tested and I surely hope they're the majority. It's just I'm not sure about it... Edit for clarification I'm not talking about the 51% attack as this is not feasible as it was already noted (DoSing pools for a certain amount of time, would just slow down block generation). Just commenting about how I don't feel that secure that most of the miners do have rock-solid backup plans. Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: deeplink on October 17, 2012, 11:19:11 AM You are right to say that the software supports backup pools, but I'm not sure how many people have set it up to backup to p2pool if everything else fails. The reason for me being sceptic about this is because I've seen huge fails securing email servers, not using two step verification, hard-coding keys into the code and the such. I suppose you can understand what/who I'm talking about. If those peeps, who used to handle too many coins (or other values) in a daily basis, were so careless, what to expect from "smaller" bitcoin players? I'm sure there are plenty of miners with backup plans setup and tested and I surely hope they're the majority. It's just I'm not sure about it... Edit for clarification I'm not talking about the 51% attack as this is not feasible as it was already noted (DoSing pools for a certain amount of time, would just slow down block generation). Just commenting about how I don't feel that secure that most of the miners do have rock-solid backup plans. I agree that it is unlikely that the majority of miners have configured backup pools at all. And I question if that is a problem. Most miners probably monitor their machines regularly and can and will switch to other pools manually within a couple of hours, if the need arises. Taking a risk of a few hours downtime is not that big of a deal for small-time miners. Is it probably not even worth the time to configure backup pools. Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: AmDD on October 17, 2012, 12:37:23 PM I consider myself a small-time miner, 4GH/s in total. Ive got my miners setup with 2 backup pools...
Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: Meatball on November 01, 2012, 05:38:55 AM I agree that it is unlikely that the majority of miners have configured backup pools at all. And I question if that is a problem. Most miners probably monitor their machines regularly and can and will switch to other pools manually within a couple of hours, if the need arises. Taking a risk of a few hours downtime is not that big of a deal for small-time miners. Is it probably not even worth the time to configure backup pools. Ah, I disagree. First, I would think most miners have some basic technical chops or they (A) wouldn't know about Bitcoin, and (B) never be able to figure out how to set up a mining rig. I agree that a lot of people probably mine without backups at first, but the first time they notice they've not been mining for a few hours, they'll figure out they can setup backups. Even small time miners, any downtime is a big deal. If you're only making 1 BTC a month, every .01 BTC is important. :) Title: Re: >50% attack Post by: cunicula on November 01, 2012, 06:37:08 AM Jesus... I don't have many people ignored on this forum, but subSTRATA immediately made the list. Perma-mute this guy. Anyone who attacks the usefulness of proof-of-work as a security mechanism is a friend in my book. I am certain it will fail within my expected lifetime. I wish the subsidy would drop quicker so we could get it over with. ...mines PPCoin while waiting for something better than PPCoin to come along... |