Bitcoin Forum

So the trade can be regulated, what will this do for Bitcoin as a means of payment?

Are coins in general regarded as a Commodity?

So bitcoin is:

    IRS: Property
    CFTC: Commodity
    Judge: Currency
    SEC: Security
    TSA: Cash

It will destroy American bitcoin use if they try and monopolize/regulate it.
Bitcoin isn't just American, if the U.S. tries to regulate it, they might just have adverse effects on bitcoin's ease of use and possibly price.

Lol. And that's only in the US! Also, this is exactly what the Bitcoiners have been saying for quite a long time now.

Most people use it as a stock or a commondity. But since it can be used to pay directly for many things, it is still currency/money.

You cannot really pay for a digital download (for example) with a fraction of an Apple/Google/Coke market share.

basically in the USA they have no idea what bitcoin is, also in Australia they want to tax it and in europe it's free of VAT

how we can think even once that bitcoin can be used more if no one have the slightest clue how to categorize bitcoin

they should come up with a new rule for cryptocurrency, would be the best solution

quite a news to me im euro nothing of that its here

For me personally bitcoin is a store of value, a commodity, a stock almost. If we go to the moon I will use it as cash/currency.

Good.
Since bitcoin doesn't scale anyway it will just give more room for the rest of the non American users.

Leave it to the Americans to over regulate everything. If they can they would double or even triple TAX it. {VAT / Licensing / Capital gains tax ...}

What will we have next? .... Dividend tax or Windfall profits tax .... It's up to them, how they want to take their share of the pie.  >:(

This will go on, until it's clearly defined what Bitcoin is. Death & Taxes ....you cannot run away from either of them.   ::)

US tends to over-regulate things to let things fall into their favor. Good thing my country hasn't thought of regulating bitcoin because for the officials here, bitcoin is just another internet commodity used by tech-savvy people to buy things online. But I must agree on the commodity part; bitcoin is used mainly for storage of value, though the value itself is highly volatile which makes it hard to rely on it to keep all your assets for the future.

isn't this a good thing? I mean if it's regulated as a commodity more gold / silver investors will look into investing into bitcoin too I think

And with the same reason, more people who chose bitcoin because it is unregulated would make their way out so as not to be controlled. It's always a double-edged sword, you can't have it both ways. Regulate it, most people who are in it for the unregulated nature would flee, but enter those investors who are willing to make money because it is regulated. If that's the case, bitcoin would probably be held by the rich only to be used as an investment tool and not a currency which it was intended to be in the first place.

A commodity can be anything. In forex system, USD is a commodity. So, bitcoin basically a medium of exchange. So it's obviously a commodity. So, accepting as a commodity must be good step towards strong growth.

try to regulate the cash ... and then, think this with bitcoin with no central point,  no emission or reception and ... no ATM.

bitcoin is like human.
free.

But over-regulating things, be it commodity or whatever it is tends to prevent growth. If regulation is done correctly, it may be beneficial and may help towards success, but if not, it will just go downhill and will remain history. Also, imposing regulations on a decentralized network is not a good idea.  ::)

i think the reason why no one is investing big is not because of regulation, but because of high volatility

i don't think this regulation will solve anything

its nice to see that bitcoin is gaining its role in the market ...sooner it will reach in countries too....i will love to see that day....

Don't worry about it, this is exactly what they will do. American government is a control freak and looks only after its own a**. They don't care about the people, technology, innovation. They will do as they are pleased.

On the other side, look at Canadian government. Complete opposite from the America. They were willing to listen and even learn about the Bitcoin. To add, they even listened and incorporated some of the advices that Antonopoulos suggested.

Care to point me to where you got that information from? I would really appreciate it!

Yes that's true, however I think if it's regulated the big investors will invest much bigger money than the people who are in it because it's unregulated, that would make the price go much higher, and therefore even the rest of the people will stay in as least in form of investment

add...in US-FINCEN (part of Treasury Dept): Money
in Germany: unit of the account

Nah, it would be the same as UK and automobile.
this essentially destroyed car industry in UK and opened up an opportunity in US.
bitcoin will strive elsewhere, unfortunately, if BitAct/License nonsense continues unabated.

And when everything is full blown decentralized in the future they will criminalize it but nobody will care.

Not at all surprising. The US government has tried so hard to regulate Bitcoin. Now, there's a ridiculous law that will allow users to get in trouble for trading it. How in the world do you tax something like Bitcoin when it's P2P? Not sure...

Bitcoin like any technology is an, innovate or die, kind of deal If some govs don’t want bitcoin, then bitcoin will move elsewhere.

Commodity to my understanding means buying and using it on something else for another chain of process or production. In the case of bitcoin I don't think that fits in.

Commodity? Well, why not.
For me Bitcoin is a hedge against the possibility of inflation in the future

You can have a look at here European Court of Justice Official Proposes Bitcoin VAT Exemption (https://99bitcoins.com/weekly-round-up-bitcoin-exempt-vat-europe-core-version-0110-released-more/)

It is the beaty of bitcoin, which has many use case. It can be commodity, stock or many depending on who and how to use it.

All those different interpretations on what in fact bitcoin is, will result in bitcoin services changing their base of operations to a more bitcoin friendly country.
How can you build a bitcoin related company when the government doesn't even know how to approach it..

i had to file as a alt currency biz usa on mining....my bank (evil btc was in 2013) made an error on the over 10k wire xfer to knc said it was 99k and I was a criminal to SEC.
In the states you sign a nice you are not a money launderer form if over 10k. I had proof they were full of it..but got paranoia and had my CPA file me according to
2013 IRS guidelines

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf)

of course as I figured ...I showed they were in error and they tried to hang me out with SEC guy that I was not a legit biz and hiding $$ ..slap'd the CPA completed
tax forms paid down..so yeah w/o that their next step would have been to sic IRS after me ...

anyway it all has evened out as a coincidence with the equip depreciation and all ..so lucky never have had to pay any taxes on mining as per IRS rules yet
got 25% off equipment (next year i'm out home mining is dead)

so my rambling point is ....if you can just don't show your hand till this is all clarified in some manner ...then say in 2017 if you want to reveil your BTC $$$$ you can
say you had a good year or something and do it then under clear rules

if you have to do it ...like me for some reason.....get a CPA and do it right was a couple hundred bucks for a home biz

but of the above FOR NOW assume the IRS is the way to go ....they have the most clout imho or just sit on your btc wallet and by all means if you are a whale
act like a minnow till this is all clarified and THEN maybe pay taxes due or whatever as you dribble it out or whatever

but yeah freaked me out..I got lucky and again coincidentally what I mined more or less came out to what I paid in taxes and got back in equip depreciation
(actually I"m 25% off on equipment ahead so far) 2018 I may have to hedge some and pay some modest taxes in the 100's of dollars maybe to round out the biz
but don't count on luck

stay a minnow till all this is hashed out ...as of 2015 banks don't give a frack anymore  but they did not like me much in 2013 :(

soon enough US is going to be emptied out of any sort of bitcoin businesses and all the other countries are going to be pioneers in this future Commodity!

BitPay: Play Money  ;D

Your post got me to a thinkin'. What better way to compress Bitcoin than to have the various states/nations regulate it differently so to keep the ideal in a state of flux? The cost to any powers that be would be minimal to implementing such a plan oppose to conducting some sort of conventional global blitzkrieg to thwart Bitcoin. Instead of them playin' Whac-A-Mole, they simply allow us full use of the mallet to play as they shift regulations if or when need be. Genius!

Are my Neopoints and WoW gold a Commodity as well now?

Are they worth ~$1.8M?

I'd say they are priceless the amount of my youth those two ate up :P.

We keep all our Neopoints in Switzerland anyways, so we should be safe... WoW gold is deep in a safe in Stormwind City.

Prob not worth ~$1.8M though :(.

Yeah this just pisses me off. It's whatever's more conveinient for the government to prosecute whoever is using it.

Thanks! So not black and white, as the supreme administrative court proposed that the swedish court should reply vat exempt, it didn't rule that it is vat exempt. It doesn't prevent any EU state to locally overrule that proposal but it does provide some guidance when local tax agencies start procrastinating to avoid making a decision, so that's great.