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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: AaronM on June 04, 2011, 03:19:59 AM



Title: most libertarian US states?
Post by: AaronM on June 04, 2011, 03:19:59 AM
Which states have the most libertarian laws and culture.  Specifically, those states where government is limited to things which the free market could not provide, like tragedy-of-the-commons issues; and the culture is libertarian-leaning.

Which states would best qualify?


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Anonymous on June 04, 2011, 03:25:03 AM
New Hampshire is at the top.

Defacto open carry, optimal taxes and the most libertarian culture overall.

Google 'The Free State Project'.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: AaronM on June 04, 2011, 03:45:06 AM
New Hampshire is at the top.

Defacto open carry, optimal taxes and the most libertarian culture overall.

Google 'The Free State Project'.

Hah, I thought the Free State Project was about Vermont, which is why I was so confused by Vermon's new single-payer health care system. :P It's been a couple years since I last read about it...

Thanks for the tip.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Anonymous on June 04, 2011, 03:48:22 AM
New Hampshire is at the top.

Defacto open carry, optimal taxes and the most libertarian culture overall.

Google 'The Free State Project'.

Hah, I thought the Free State Project was about Vermont, which is why I was so confused by Vermon's new single-payer health care system. :P It's been a couple years since I last read about it...

Thanks for the tip.
Hahaha, you've made my night.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Zamicol on June 04, 2011, 06:11:28 AM

Hah, I thought the Free State Project was about Vermont, which is why I was so confused by Vermon's new single-payer health care system. :P It's been a couple years since I last read about it...

Thanks for the tip.

There are some in Vermont that want to secede, but it's because they don't like the feds telling them how to regulate, not that they mind the regulation.  

That longing for freedom grows deeper in my bones every day.  If there was ever a significant Libertarian movement anywhere, I would move myself and my family there.  


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Bazil on June 04, 2011, 05:10:38 PM
New Hampshire hands down.  which is one of reasons I live in NH.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: tomcollins on June 04, 2011, 07:38:12 PM
Montana has to be close.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Elios on June 04, 2011, 08:20:56 PM
Oregon
/thread


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: benjamindees on June 05, 2011, 12:43:06 AM
Many US states are libertarian in different ways.  The Free State Project's research is a good starting point.  Just remember that one of their criteria was that they were looking for a small state that could be influenced by an influx of people.  Texas, for instance, is libertarian in a lot of ways.  Michael Badnarik and Ron Paul, Libertarian Party presidential candidates, are from Texas.  But Texas would never be considered ripe for libertarian take-over.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Bazil on June 05, 2011, 12:56:44 AM
Many US states are libertarian in different ways.  The Free State Project's research is a good starting point.  Just remember that one of their criteria was that they were looking for a small state that could be influenced by an influx of people.  Texas, for instance, is libertarian in a lot of ways.  Michael Badnarik and Ron Paul, Libertarian Party presidential candidates, are from Texas.  But Texas would never be considered ripe for libertarian take-over.

Texas is so libertarian, that when some old lady's husband died the state decided she couldn't take care of herself anymore, sold her house for her, threw her in an assisted living home and forced her to pay for it with the proceeds from her house sale.  Yep that has libertarian written all over it.  Texas is very independent, not free, people often seem to confuse the two.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Bonesplitter on June 05, 2011, 03:37:22 AM
Alaska obviously. Open carry, legal marijuana, and very few laws which infringe on civil rights are a few factors that make Alaska the most libertarian state.

NH is slowly growing because of the FSP and other movements. The state house is definitely the most libertarian legal body in the country.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Bazil on June 05, 2011, 03:58:53 AM
Alaska obviously. Open carry, legal marijuana, and very few laws which infringe on civil rights are a few factors that make Alaska the most libertarian state.

NH is slowly growing because of the FSP and other movements. The state house is definitely the most libertarian legal body in the country.

Alaska allows the most person freedom I think, but it loses out in the other areas: http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/publication/Freedom_in_the_50_States.pdf


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: DrSammyD on June 05, 2011, 06:14:25 AM
Might I suggest seasteading (http://seasteading.org/)?


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Sjalq on June 05, 2011, 09:40:16 AM
The US Federal government has the political will and the financial motivation to turn in on its own citizens. I'm not sure there will be a save physical location in the country when that happens.

Biggest total prison population, biggest per capita prison population, most for non-violent crimes... land of the free?


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: tomcollins on June 05, 2011, 06:21:43 PM
Many US states are libertarian in different ways.  The Free State Project's research is a good starting point.  Just remember that one of their criteria was that they were looking for a small state that could be influenced by an influx of people.  Texas, for instance, is libertarian in a lot of ways.  Michael Badnarik and Ron Paul, Libertarian Party presidential candidates, are from Texas.  But Texas would never be considered ripe for libertarian take-over.

Texas is so libertarian, that when some old lady's husband died the state decided she couldn't take care of herself anymore, sold her house for her, threw her in an assisted living home and forced her to pay for it with the proceeds from her house sale.  Yep that has libertarian written all over it.  Texas is very independent, not free, people often seem to confuse the two.

Texan has a lot of libertarians in it, that's for sure.  But the overall population is far from it.  But that's true almost anywhere.  But you seem some pretty big pockets here.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Zamicol on June 06, 2011, 08:17:11 AM
Might I suggest seasteading (http://seasteading.org/)?

I was waiting for this suggestion. 


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Vitalik Buterin on June 06, 2011, 09:42:41 AM
Might I suggest seasteading (http://seasteading.org/)?

I was waiting for this suggestion. 

How is seasteading going, is there any actual progress on that front? The group has been around for years, but (please correct me if I'm wrong) it seems to me like things are stagnating.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: speeder on June 06, 2011, 01:32:11 PM
I doubt seasteading will work, considering how the last two attempts resulted into governments attacking (Minerva, conquered by Toga, and Rosa, demolished by Italy)


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: The Script on June 12, 2011, 07:44:02 PM
Alaska obviously. Open carry, legal marijuana, and very few laws which infringe on civil rights are a few factors that make Alaska the most libertarian state.

NH is slowly growing because of the FSP and other movements. The state house is definitely the most libertarian legal body in the country.

Marijuana isn't exactly legal, only for medical use and less than 1 oz for personal use.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/marijuana-laws-and-penalties/alaska.htm (http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/marijuana-laws-and-penalties/alaska.htm)

We're a weird state because there are a lot of "independent" minded people ande a fair amount of personal freedoms but the State is heavily dependent on the Federal Governement and that shows up in other ways.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: speeder on June 12, 2011, 09:55:16 PM
What are the most libertarian countries?


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Anonymous on June 12, 2011, 10:28:40 PM
What are the most libertarian countries?
Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, The US and Iceland.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: kylesaisgone on June 17, 2011, 01:47:14 AM
Sadly, Hong Kong is getting pulled into the mob tyranny otherwise known as social democracy. They just recently passed a minimum wage law.

:(

Once things start getting *really* bad in the US, I envision myself moving to Singapore. Most kids there are taught English in school to remain competitive, and while there are some downsides, it's pretty libertarian. Hong Kong is nice and all, but it's inevitable before PRC seeks to diminish the sovereignty to Hong Kong.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: speeder on June 17, 2011, 08:13:44 PM
I took a look at Singapore.

It is rather... interesting.

In one hand the state is very strong, drugs are forbidden, as are guns, and some modes of public expression (large public gatherings for example are forbidden without asking permission first, also using any method of putting your message on a public wall is also forbidden, being considered vandalism).

Yet, 95% of the population like the current government, it is very efficient, low pollution, low crime, low social problems, seemly low taxes...


Although here in Brazil I do want a gun, if I ever go to Singapore, I would not bother unless I decided to buy a ship (Singaporean waters are ridden with pirates, even with heavy navy presence including of other countries trying to get rid of them).

The only major problem in Singapore is not a political one: Price of the land. (related to the high population density)


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: kylesaisgone on June 17, 2011, 09:49:57 PM
Yea, Singapore isn't perfect, but that's kind of a universal trait in the East. Asian culture usually maintains a high reverence for authority, and Singapore is no different. It has a largely 'free' economy, and the cultural authoritarianism is sort of an afterthought and not oppresive like it would be in the US or Europe. The East is quite different from the West in this sense.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: speeder on June 17, 2011, 11:14:15 PM
I am seriously thinking in going to Singapore (permanently).

My only concern is the possibility of living in a boat there (is cheaper than housing, but seemly you need a permanent address and there like I mentioned, pirates... and Singapore usually does not welcome guns, although seemly is possible to convince them to give you a permit).


I thought before of going to other places, but they are so non-free that not even going there is not much allowed (ie: Canada for example you need some specific degrees or be married and have underage kids. Japan need a japanese spouse or a job, and if you lose any of them, you are kicked out and lose possession of whatever you left in Japan, including children in case of divorce, and this pattern repeats in most reasonable countries... the countries easy to get in are usually the ones that noone want to get in).


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Mageant on June 18, 2011, 05:02:16 PM
What are the most libertarian countries?
Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, The US and Iceland.

Actually, I think it's Somalia (because it's mostly non-existant).


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: speeder on June 18, 2011, 10:04:48 PM
What are the most libertarian countries?
Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, The US and Iceland.

Actually, I think it's Somalia (because it's mostly non-existant).

Libertarian is different from non-existant.

And Somalia has 3 nations on it, one of the reasons Somalia is a failed state, is the UN trying to enforce it to remain united as a single nation, when it is not.

It has Somaliland (the closest thing to a country there), Xeer (true anarchism, very interesting... take a look on them) and Islamists (that currently control the UN-sanctioned capital, a fact that is not really relevant to Somaliland or Xeer).


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: Mageant on June 18, 2011, 10:18:38 PM
Xeer (true anarchism, very interesting... take a look on them)

Quite interesting, thank you.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: fellowtraveler on June 18, 2011, 10:49:20 PM
The most Libertarian state is California.

Weed and gay marriage are both legal, and you can get an abortion on every streetcorner.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: speeder on June 18, 2011, 11:02:35 PM
The most Libertarian state is California.

Weed and gay marriage are both legal, and you can get an abortion on every streetcorner.


That is libertine, not necessarily libertarian.

All of those are forbidden in Singapore, and I think Singapore is much more free than California


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: LastBattle on June 19, 2011, 06:01:25 AM
I have heard of a handful of Libertarians packing up their possessions, selling non-essentials, and moving to semi-stable African countries like Nigeria, whereupon they use their money to buy some land, some guards, and live without much government interference. A regular, say, American could live very well in such countries assuming he didn't get sick or attacked.


Title: Re: most libertarian US states?
Post by: speeder on June 20, 2011, 01:42:27 PM
The problem is if you get sick you are screwed.

I thought once of doing that, but would require moving lots of people (not only me) to create a colony of sorts, and at least one of them must be a excellent medic.