Bitcoin Forum

Here is story:

I done a trade with a user "X" and after trade was complete this account"X" was sold to other user (can't reveal username because this account is now owned by a new owner who has nothing to do with this stuff so I don't want to involve him in this)
I had some problem with trade so I sent him many PMs and after he never replied left him a neg feedback but later he replied to me that he is new owner of this account and it was sold to him by user "Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830)" using Defcon23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98372) as escrow.


Cool

I sent message to user "Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830)" for problem regarding my trade and this user responded me that he never sold me anything , and he bought this account from someone using Defcon23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98372) as escrow, and asked me that I can confirm this from Defcon23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98372)
"here is screenshot of feedback left by Defcon23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98372) on Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830) trust page saying that this account(Kanapka) was sold using his escrow service"
https://i.imgur.com/DFebY2i.png (https://i.imgur.com/DFebY2i.png)

Ok, then I sent message to Defcon23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98372) asking for this and he said Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830) account was sold using his escrow when I asked when it was sold then he said it was sold after he did any trade with me(When I asked for date when the account was sold he refused).Then I asked him for some proofs that the account was sold so I know that it is not the original user who done trade with me and he didn't answered and started making fake excuses like"its my son's birthday and I am busy"


then I checked forum security log and found that password of account "Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830)" was not changed since last 1 month? (my trade was 9-10 sepetember)
so it means that Defcon23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98372) lied about this and account Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830) was never sold using his escrow, this prove that "Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830)" is his alt account and he is defending it using hero account Defcon23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98372)


also he left positive feedback to Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830) for this transaction and also took fees from buyer for the trade between buyer and "Kanapka (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=360830)"(his potential alt)
that is against forum rules.

Here are Proofs where he said that the account was sold

trust page of kanapka => https://i.imgur.com/DFebY2i.png (https://i.imgur.com/DFebY2i.png)


Pms from defcon23 =>

Oh god this seems like a normal thing to do around here ::)

looks like he left you a retaliation feedback. lol look at that spelling. he's so mad he can't even spell properly.

notice that both feedback have a space before the question/exclamation marks (someone screenshot them. I'm lazy). that might mean nothing, but who knows.

Lol yes
He left me negative feedback because I exposed him,but nothing new it was expected action by him

I don't care about this,if I get one negative feedback for each scammer I trap, I am ready to accept hundreds of negative feedbacks because everyone know they are false one

So this might mean that users who use Defcon's escrow service for large funds might find themselves coughing in his dust while he runs away with them. He might be one of those members who keep buying accounts, getting trust, doing escrow, and running.


It's not, and you should never think of it like that.

Yet another good reason why selling accounts should be banned.

how? it'll make it even more harder to monitor account trades if the traders take their sales outside of this site.

However, if accounts are banned, people will believe that all accounts were created by the original owner and thus will be a bit more trustworthy, so accounts sold under the table will have greater scam opportunities.

did I get you right?
coz if yes, we should a;so legalize rape and murder, or people would forget that they could be raped & murdered & drop their guard.  

You should understand that I'm not going to troll you if you post on your main. :)

I see your point; however, rape and murder happen so often IRL that it's practically impossible to forget it. Plus, you know when someone gets raped/murdered because it's on the news; however, the buying/selling of accounts can't be found out until either

a) the new owner of the account messes up
b) he pulls the scam.

Also, escrows would not escrow for account trades, which means that people would be forced to have someone send first in those under-the-table deals, which means that many people would get scammed like that.

ORLY?  never been raped or murdered myself.


you know what tho?  I didn't know that accounts were bought & sold on bitcointalk before chancing into the auctions sub.  even reported a couple, before I learned that it's a thing here.

so maybe we should put something like "ACCOUNTS ARE BOUGHT AND SOLD HERE, LOL" on the signup page, so noobs would know?


as it stands now, escrow means two different accounts controlled by the same user.  besides, disallowing CP sales on bitcointalk means such sales won't be properly escrowed :( i'd lose no sleep if a guy buying CP or accounts got ripped off.

Doesn't mean that it happens often in the real world. I've never been scammed, but look around at the forum; plenty of scams occur here.


I think I phrased my statement wrongly. I meant to say, "however, the fact that an account is bought/sold can't be found out until either".

Plenty of people know the fact that accounts are bought/sold; how early you know that really depends on where you spend your time in sections.

I think the community does a good job keeping newbies cautious against everyone and encouraging escrow.


Just because someone buys an account doesn't mean that they are 100% buying it to scam. There are tons of honest people who buy accounts to participate in signature campaigns; you wouldn't care if they got ripped off, but you would if someone else did? I guess that's just your opinion.

in that case, not sure I understand you.  are you saying noobs won't know if accounts are bought and sold until they poke around the forum & stumble across an account for sale?  If you're so intent on protecting the noobs from getting scammed by a bought account, why not simply put...
"WARNING: WHILE THE SALE OF USER ACCOUNTS IS PROHIBITED ON BITCOINTALK, ACCOUNTS COULD BE BOUGHT AND SOLD OFF-SITE. DUH!"
...on the signup page?

besides, according to most account dealers/users around here, bought accounts are seldom involved in scams, so why not focus on more generalized warnings, like
"CAUTION! SOMETIMES, PEOPLE LIE! BE CAREFUL!"

???

sure it does.  unless newbie restrictions are put in place simply to encourage account sales.
edit: no, i would not care if some mercenary posters got ripped off.  they collectively are making this forum a spammy piece of shit that it has become.
my only regret is they could not lose MORE.

That's why I put the last bit in.



You're not making much sense here. I think you obviously know that newbie restrictions are not put in place to encourage account sales; instead, to prevent spam and etc. And so you're saying that every single account that is bought is used for spamming? That's obviously not true.

Okay... So every single person here on the forum with a signature ad deserves to be scammed. This is the point where I understand that I cannot have an intellectual discussion with you. Again, that's your opinion. You should go discuss it in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786662.0).

I figure we should bring the discussion to a thread in Meta. I'm sure there are quite a number of threads that are suitable for this, but we're clogging up this thread.

And if you're so intent on arguing your point, create a new thread in Meta and I'm sure you could get a number of replies, not just me.

if by "a good job" you mean "trading on bitcointalk is less dangerous  than jumping head-firs into a wood chipper, but just barely" & by "the community" you mean to say "dood who is both the escrow and the seller," then I agree.
but how is this relevant to allowing account sales vs. simply putting this
"WARNING: WHILE THE SALE OF USER ACCOUNTS IS PROHIBITED ON BITCOINTALK, ACCOUNTS COULD BE BOUGHT AND SOLD OFF-SITE. DUH!"
...on the signup page?


if the person got scammed trying to buy an account*, presumably the person wouldn't be in a sig campaign, because got scammed & didn't get the account to spam with.
a valuable lessen learned & justice served, Allah be praised.


it's alright tho, you still got your satoshis from your sig ad, so count it as a win, i guess :-\

---

*thus breaking the forum rules; no escrow because account dealing is verboten; your argument, remember? prolly not, so here:

Exactly. It would be much easier to at the least to know with who you are dealing with if account sales were to be prohibited.

I'm wondering if this one will finish with the same mob fury as QS did.

probably not. defcon23 doesn't have as many people hating his guts as QS does.
and I don't see anyone here saying fact this and fact that.

not sure if it's good or bad.

This account is mine since its creation. I can sign a message

And of course I'm not defcom.

I sold another account. Won't say what account because you'll neg it only to annoy me and sellers never reveal what account has been sold

Please refrain to try to bully and ruin the reputation of random people that never traded with you and have no idea WTF are you talking about

Regards

PS: we all know you have an army of alts, please don't do too much shilling in this topic

The debate wasn't for your account not being sold. On the contrary, it was about it not being sold; about you/defcon lying about it being sold despite it not being sold in the last month.

Your feedback doesn't even has a reference link and you don't even say what are the PMs about. My guess is that you are just lying and trying to bully people for God's know what reason


Who said that my account was sold ?

I made an auction for an account that has nothing to do with my account

From what I understand in Neotox's original post, you and Defcon both said that your account was sold. He hasn't given proof of the statements but I'm sure he will on request.

for reference, the message about the account I sold(was not an auction, I sold directly to another users)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167799.msg12370888#msg12370888

Was a junior member with less than 300 potential activity(doesn't match with my account)
The trust left to me:

"i have escrowed the sale for this account ( actual owner of this account at this date) and this user is a TRUSTED USER . That's not the first time i have to escrowed a deal for a buyed account with this user, and i PERSONALY NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH HIM.
NEOTOX .. please contact this user to know the date sale of this account... its surely not the same person, kind regards. "

Replace "this account" with "this user" and problem will be solved. I think he used "trusted" because Neotox accused me of being the original owner of Shibashi Dogemoto.

so : for all people how think they can judge someone on an accusation with NO PROOF!

neotox , and vod : where are your proofs ?...........    a let the comunity judge of all that:

can you prove that defcon23 really sent you that PMs?

are you sure that "this account" refers to Kanapka(aka this account), and not to Shibashi Dogemoto?

you can see in those PMs which account he is talking about and also on your trust rating you can see he said this account was sold and new owner etc

about verification of those PMs I can tell PM ID for the PMs he sent me and admin/staff member can verify this the content of those PMs was same as I posted here not any single character was changed

And this is from your trust page feedback left by defcon23

https://i.imgur.com/DFebY2i.png (https://i.imgur.com/DFebY2i.png)

"i have escrowed the sale for this account ( actual owner of this account at this date) and this user is a TRUSTED USER . That's not the first time i have to escrowed a deal for a buyed account with this user, and i PERSONALY NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH HIM.
NEOTOX .. please contact this user to know the date sale of this account... its surely not the same person, kind regards."

Chronology of what happened:

1 - Auction topic made by Shibashi selling a Hero member

https://archive.is/3Boe2

2- Neotox won and bought the account using SebastianJu

obs: he was a bad buyer, asked several times for the name of the account before send any BTC to escrow and complained that I took too long to answer when I was signing a message from account, dumping the private key, changing passwords, etc. Also asked for the Shibashi account as a gift(???)

3 - Account sold

4 - Somehow sellerguild discovered the identity of the sold account and -ve rep it(like happened with several other accounts, without the buyer activating the dick mode like Neotox did), Neotox put the blame on me

profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=102936

5 - Account Shibashi sold

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167799.msg12370888#msg12370888

5 - Neotox left a negative feedback to Shibashi without reference saying that he contacted me several times but I never returned

6 - I contacted Neotox using the account John Carter(so he is lying when he says I never contacted him) to know what was going on. He said that was because the negative trust and that he already bought more than 100 accounts without ever being discovered. I still don't know if he wanted to undo the deal, extort me some money or try to get the Shibashi account for free or for very low, but I would never do any of the options anyway. He kept the negative in the Shibashi account even after I informed him about the sell.

7 - Neotox erased the neg trust for the Shibashi account and opened this thread.

And why are you making this scam accusation and not the buyer? He received nothing if what you say is true.

Or are you saying that the buyer, the seller( I ) and the escrow are all the same person ???

I never asked you for for any money or refund for this account sale
as a buyer I wanted to know which account I was buying and when you said you can tell me after I fund escrow I did funded escrow.

about contacting you I have sent many PMs to shibashi account, your johncarter account and kanapka account (first one was sold and from johncarter account you just created that and never logged in next day to reply my comment because you thought that I will never able to find you) and from your kanapka account that you were using regular you just did 1 reply to my PM and later never responded me


and the main topic of this thread is
you used Defcon23 for escrow that is your alt account and that is against forum rules
no one defend someone without proof untill it is their own account, and defcon23 clearly stated on your trust page and in the PMs that he sent me that this account kanapka was sold but this account was never sold and he lied about this
this is one more proof that he is defending his own alt account kanapka

lol you don't know what this topic is about and you keep posting here
read the OP and you will know the reason of this topic

I never sold anything using John Carter, I can give account details to any trusted member to verify the PMs and the accounts.

I'm not an alt of Defcon23.

I never sold or bought this account or ever shared it, I created this account and since the beginning I has been the sole owner of it.

I defend him because you are a dick and the enemy of my enemy is my friend and because the truth is important to me, and if people get convinced that he is my alt I will receive neg trust, like QS's alts received.

I can prove all the points above to trusted members

You still have to explain why the buyer, that by your logic received nothing, is quiet

Probably Defcon23 messed up with english and said thigns that could be misinterpreted. He wrote "buyed account" instead of bought account for example, I would never do it. Only when he is back and explains it we will know, I have nothing to do with whatever he said to you.

In the meanwhile you might want to do a chronology about what you say that happened, like I did, because your OP is confusing

No, I don't think so

he said this 2 times that the account kanapka was sold , first on your trust page and second via PM to me
I just asked him for proofs that the account was sold, and if he was messed with english then he can reply me that the account was not sold it was just a mistake

I don't think someone can do same mistake 3 times( first on writing on your trust page, second writing a PM to me and third reading the PM that I have sent him)

now after getting caught you are giving fake excuses it was a mistake or anything like this but first he was very confident when he sent you feedback and replied to my PMs

The PMs you claim you have received, and even if you did, they are out of context.

Remember that I can prove all my points, you are risking reputation with your statements

1: I never said you sold me anything using your johncarter account but you said that it was your own account
2. If you are not alt of defcon23 then why he lied that your account was sold and he was escrow for this and the account is now contrlled by new owner (as seen on trust page and PM's I shared)
3.It was defcon23 who said this account was sold and already shared the proofs about this
4. you defend him because he is your alt and after be caught you are defending it, he lied about this it means that he was not honest and escrow must be honest

No the PMs I recieved from defcon23 are same as I shared them here and I am ready to share PM ID so admin/staff member can check the content of the PM he sent me

I have already shared proofs about this and I am not risking my reputation because a negative feedback from scammer doesn't impact(you given me negative feedback)
also I am not using abusing language as you are because I know I am right and don't need to write shit to prove myself I have already shared enough proofs about this

 i never had any alt account . i dont have time to play with  lol .   but yes, admins should probably reveal the true  :)    ho... yes i have to admit it : i have a really bad english .
anyway thanx to all the trolls who think having the right to judge without any correct evidences , and without any knowledge...   the most funny thing is the "judges" had never done any deal with me , and react like zombies just because another troll "have said"..



 

This is starting to become a weekly occurence. I'm disappointed to be honest, so many members of the community seem dishonest, it's not good to see.

There doesn't seem to have been any big scams or thefts using this alt escrow method recently but I fear it's only a matter of time :(

Please answer:

in the deal that you claim that Defcon23 escrowed for himsef:

who was the buyer?
who was the seller?

Which account was an alt of the escrow Defcon23? The buyer? The seller? Both?

Is Neotox(uid: 194700) an alt of Quickseller(uid: 358020)?

Was Quickseller(uid: 358020) in control of your account when you started this topic?)

tks

use known escrows with good trusts not randoms dude..

to my last post: also provide evidence that the trade happened


Who will determine who is known and who is random? He had good trust before and the buyer recommended him

Another one to Neotox: have you ever escrowed for himself?

another point everybody can judge :

another lies in the OP :



the true:









and now : the only reason i'm not speed to answer him is: ( and this could be proof too):

in june neotox had managed a signature campaign. he come to me with a proposition on a "special enrollement" ,

and when i ask him about my reward, he simply told me : "you dont have the good number of posts dude ....."
look at the chronology of this story:
my answer dont go in the way he hope , so he start to be insane...

and now spread the world with fake accusations. this is not the end of this story . i think , once again , admins/staff   shoud probably have the good tools to verify who is the troll here ..   that's not take a long time to make sense to everybody (  excepted for the troll VOD , indeed..  who think having the super power to follow fake accusations like a sheep .., lol , the most funny part is: i dont even know him .., i never done anything with him ..)

Buyer Patatas
Seller Kanapka aka defcon23 (escrow)

I am not alt of quickseller and he never controlled my account

I think you need to read the bold part again, i said "I sent many PMs to seller and he never replied"
I didn't said that you defcon23 never replied me

cool your mind and read everything again

Normal? I'd say superb! :)

Having second thoughts about it, seems neotox's english is a bit broken. Will delete this post in 10mins and the other post as well

LOL  you can see here who love to play with Bitcointalk accounts...  ;D

------------------>  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173152.0;topicseen (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173152.0;topicseen)


-------------------> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1185154.msg12474285#msg12474285 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1185154.msg12474285#msg12474285)


& yes... definitively, buying /selling Bitcointalk accounts shoudn't be alowed.. the most funny part is we can clearly see now who use to play with many alt accounts ...  ;D

Rule 18 of the official list of rules of bitcointalk

lol neotox had just delete that on his self moderated trhead:

He is free to do so, if you have something against that you can create another thread about it

because your reply was nothing related to topic, you said selling the accounts are against forum rules which is not if you have read the rules, check the rule 18 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

if it was legit post I must had this in my thread as you can see there is reply from other legit guy

this guy is a SCAMMER


he sell all his alt account & encourage scammers to scam other users, by selling all these Bitcointalk accounts, what is against bitcointalk rules ..
 are you an  another neotox alt ?...... lmao

lol who said you that selling bitcointalk accounts is against forum rules?
you might want to read the forum rule 18, get some time and read this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0
18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed

but you are scammer who escrowed for his alt and it was already proven

1) Stop throwing baseless accusations, I might even say you are alt of TF the great scammer.
2) Instead of backpedalling and staining other members, try cleaning up your own mess.
3) I for one donot believe that kanapka is your alt because of the huge language differences.
4) Although having alts is permitted in the forum escrowing for your alt is not