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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: runpaint on September 20, 2015, 11:44:19 PM



Title: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 20, 2015, 11:44:19 PM
Protoshares used to be a Top 10 coin, and it probably will be again if a promising project uses it for distribution.  

People have been dumping them since the share split last year increased the total supply to 1 billion - so now they're actually spread out a lot more evenly to a lot more people.

It would be nice to see something happen with PTS to go along with the BitShares 2.0 launch.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: Bisha on September 20, 2015, 11:49:49 PM
BitShares itself (not PTS) can and is being used for sharedropps already.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 12:04:27 AM
BitShares itself (not PTS) can and is being used for sharedropps already.


Cool story.  



I'd like to see more sharedrops using Bitshares PTS snapshots, since Stan Larimer promised that every future DAC would be dropped to PTS holders.  

Is that a broken promise from Bitshares, or will they use PTS for drops?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: brekyrself on September 21, 2015, 12:43:12 AM
BitShares itself (not PTS) can and is being used for sharedropps already.


Cool story.  



I'd like to see more sharedrops using Bitshares PTS snapshots, since Stan Larimer promised that every future DAC would be dropped to PTS holders.  

Is that a broken promise from Bitshares, or will they use PTS for drops?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png

This is why there was the merger last November between BitShares, DNS, Vote, and PTS etc...  There was a nice site explaining it all called BitShares reloaded however can't find it anymore.  AGS holders also got their PTS returned which was quite a nice surprise.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 12:53:09 AM

This is why there was the merger last November between BitShares, DNS, Vote, and PTS etc...  


Yeah, I also had some BitShares DNS.  Poloniex delisted it and I found out that there was no way to withdraw it because the blockchain didn't exist anymore.  Thankfully, Poloniex refunded my purchase of DNS since it was worthless and not a real coin.



Quote
There was a nice site explaining it all called BitShares reloaded however can't find it anymore.


But you can still find the site where Stan Larimer promises that every future DAC will be dropped to PTS holders.  

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/caution-watch-for-falling-pts/



When you say they were merged in November, what does that mean?  BitShares PTS took a snapshot in December and performed a share split, so the devs were still active in PTS at that time.  

December 2014 is when I bought PTS - just last year, the same year Stan Larimer made the above promise that buying those shares would get me drops of all future DACs.

But I have held the BitShares PTS for 10 months, and I have never gotten a single drop of any DAC.  Why doesn't BitShares keep their promises?


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: wannaPlayCK on September 21, 2015, 03:17:29 AM


But I have held the BitShares PTS for 10 months, and I have never gotten a single drop of any DAC.  Why doesn't BitShares keep their promises?

You got BTS. More than you're expecting because PTS and AGS got bought out during the merger, iirc. Most of it is still vesting. You also got NOTE and the BTS you got is about to get sharedropped on.

Import your PTS wallet and any wallets you donated to AGS from, the find the console in BTS type start typing 'vested' and pick the last option and add the account you want to claim it to and you can claim some now, and more over time.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: brekyrself on September 21, 2015, 04:04:11 AM
runpaint

Exactly what wannaPlayCK said.  Download the latest wallet, 0.93.  It takes time to sync and hits the disk drive hard so be patient.  This is obviously fixed in 2.0.  Register a name if you have not.

Import your PTS wallet.  Hit your account button in the upper right and click advanced > console.

Two commands.

wallet_account_vesting_balances "name" without the " will show  whats vested/vesting
wallet_collect_genesis_balances "name" without the " will collect the vested balance.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 21, 2015, 04:12:06 AM
December 2014 is when I bought PTS - just last year, the same year Stan Larimer made the above promise that buying those shares would get me drops of all future DACs.

But I have held the BitShares PTS for 10 months, and I have never gotten a single drop of any DAC.  Why doesn't BitShares keep their promises?

Because they're all a bunch of no good, worthless liars.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: favdesu on September 21, 2015, 05:23:22 AM
runpaint

Exactly what wannaPlayCK said.  Download the latest wallet, 0.93.  It takes time to sync and hits the disk drive hard so be patient.  This is obviously fixed in 2.0.  Register a name if you have not.

Import your PTS wallet.  Hit your account button in the upper right and click advanced > console.

Two commands.

wallet_account_vesting_balances "name" without the " will show  whats vested/vesting
wallet_collect_genesis_balances "name" without the " will collect the vested balance.

and try to keep an eye on  https://bitshares.org/ - https://bitshares.org/blog/ - https://bitsharestalk.org/

you're responsible for following your investment.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: gaba on September 21, 2015, 09:17:42 AM


This is why there was the merger last November between BitShares, DNS, Vote, and PTS etc...  There was a nice site explaining it all called BitShares reloaded however can't find it anymore.  AGS holders also got their PTS returned which was quite a nice surprise.

I'm AGS holder. Yes, they returned PTS after they became worthless. I bought AGS with BTC and didn't get anything back ;). They are just bunch of scammers. Today I only receiving BTS dust which is by the way locked!!!!
And of course I'am not sharedrop target anymore in percentage I invested. From now on, Dan and Stan suggesting that better sharedrop target is Brownie.PTS, private issue token inside BTS created by Dan. He is better than Madoff. Someone from USA will need to take legal actions against him and his company. He recently open another one to hide his frauds.

 


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 10:16:31 AM


But I have held the BitShares PTS for 10 months, and I have never gotten a single drop of any DAC.  Why doesn't BitShares keep their promises?

You got BTS. More than you're expecting because PTS and AGS got bought out during the merger, iirc. Most of it is still vesting. You also got NOTE and the BTS you got is about to get sharedropped on.

Import your PTS wallet and any wallets you donated to AGS from, the find the console in BTS type start typing 'vested' and pick the last option and add the account you want to claim it to and you can claim some now, and more over time.


Do you know what you're talking about?  I never got any BTS, AGS, or NOTE.

I bought PTS at Poloniex 10 months ago.  Poloniex honors sharedrops, but there has never been another sharedrop.

Besides, I don't have a BitShares wallet to import anything to, because the times I've tried to register a BitShares account, registration wasn't possible.  BTS from Poloniex can't be sent until you register an account, but you can't register an account without sending some BTS.  The only way is with a faucet, but there were no faucets the times I tried. 



Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on September 21, 2015, 10:22:16 AM

And of course I'am not sharedrop target anymore in percentage I invested.
 

The percentage you invested is low because the price has dropped severely over the past year -- you can't blame the devs because your investment isn't worth as much now.


Do you know what you're talking about?  I never got any BTS, AGS, or NOTE.

I bought PTS at Poloniex 10 months ago.  Poloniex honors sharedrops, but there has never been another sharedrop.

Besides, I don't have a BitShares wallet to import anything to, because the times I've tried to register a BitShares account, registration wasn't possible.  BTS from Poloniex can't be sent until you register an account, but you can't register an account without sending some BTS.  The only way is with a faucet, but there were no faucets the times I tried. 


If you have a BitShares wallet, you can see how much BTS etc you've been sharedropped. Just because you haven't taken the time to see how much you received doesn't mean you haven't received anything.  ???


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: favdesu on September 21, 2015, 10:29:21 AM


But I have held the BitShares PTS for 10 months, and I have never gotten a single drop of any DAC.  Why doesn't BitShares keep their promises?

You got BTS. More than you're expecting because PTS and AGS got bought out during the merger, iirc. Most of it is still vesting. You also got NOTE and the BTS you got is about to get sharedropped on.

Import your PTS wallet and any wallets you donated to AGS from, the find the console in BTS type start typing 'vested' and pick the last option and add the account you want to claim it to and you can claim some now, and more over time.


Do you know what you're talking about?  I never got any BTS, AGS, or NOTE.

I bought PTS at Poloniex 10 months ago.  Poloniex honors sharedrops, but there has never been another sharedrop.

Besides, I don't have a BitShares wallet to import anything to, because the times I've tried to register a BitShares account, registration wasn't possible.  BTS from Poloniex can't be sent until you register an account, but you can't register an account without sending some BTS.  The only way is with a faucet, but there were no faucets the times I tried.  



no problem, https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14780.0.html

download the client (or webwallet) add a name and instead of your name paste the public key located under the name, to the thread. that way you can receive bitshares and register your name.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 10:42:20 AM

and try to keep an eye on  https://bitshares.org/ - https://bitshares.org/blog/ - https://bitsharestalk.org/


2 of those links don't say anything about Protoshares.  The 3rd link still shows people expecting future sharedrops at the time I bought PTS.  There has never been a sharedrop.

Try to keep an eye on the links you recommend to other people.



Quote
you're responsible for following your investment.

That is true, I was new to crypto last year and I got fooled.  

Protoshares merged with BitShares, but PTS continued to exist.  

Invictus promised to drop shares to PTS - "but we don't call ourselves Invictus anymore".

I bought PTS at Poloniex - "But now it's BitShares PTS, formerly Protoshares, so technically nothing that was said about Protoshares still applies."




It was dishonest to allow a new coin to continue under the ticker PTS, appearing to be the same coin.

I actually thought Cryptsy was dishonest for "not honoring the sharedrop" - but Cryptsy was the honest one by not pretending that the new PTS was the same coin as the old PTS.  Bter and Poloniex allowed people to keep buying a defunct coin "because a new sharedrop is coming", and that's why I bought.  But the only sharedrop was itself, and then there's never been an actual sharedrop.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 10:47:15 AM


If you bought PTS after the hard fork, then you only paid what they are worth today:

pennies:



I paid over 200 satoshis.  Today they are worth a low of 16 satoshis.  Thanks for playing.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 10:49:55 AM


If you have a BitShares wallet, you can see how much BTS etc you've been sharedropped. Just because you haven't taken the time to see how much you received doesn't mean you haven't received anything.  ???



Does everyone see this? 

This guy thinks owning PTS lets you get other cryptocurrencies. 

Why does he think that?  Has he been misled?


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: Bisha on September 21, 2015, 11:10:49 AM
BitShares itself (not PTS) can and is being used for sharedropps already.


Cool story. 



I'd like to see more sharedrops using Bitshares PTS snapshots, since Stan Larimer promised that every future DAC would be dropped to PTS holders. 

Is that a broken promise from Bitshares, or will they use PTS for drops?

Cool story. Everything you got from Vote, DNS,etc got merged into BTS, you got more BTS and you know that lol. All your vote and dns shares are not BTS. Try harder please. You know this stuff, insisting on this won' take you anywhere. The merger was a long time ago. Everyone knows that and whoever doesn't know, will still get their BTS stake increase.




If you have a BitShares wallet, you can see how much BTS etc you've been sharedropped. Just because you haven't taken the time to see how much you received doesn't mean you haven't received anything.  ???



Does everyone see this? 

This guy thinks owning PTS lets you get other cryptocurrencies. 

Why does he think that?  Has he been misled?

He is actually talking about BTS, not PTS LOL. You even mention things wrong to mislead people? The poor credibility you had left just disappeared. And yes, BTS gets you sharedrops.

Love how you try to troll and fud when there's nothing to your favour. But by all means, keep going please :p


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 11:17:02 AM

Everything you got from Vote, DNS,etc got merged into BTS, you got more BTS and you know that lol.


You need to read more, type less.  I never got any Vote, DNS, or BTS.






Quote
He is actually talking about BTS, not PTS LOL.


Are you talking about LeagueCoin, which trades under the ticker LOL?

I didn't get dropped any of that either, because I've never received a sharedrop during the 10 months I've owned PTS.

Besides, he couldn't be talking about BTS because I've already said that I don't have a BitShares wallet.  Unless you think he's the kind of person that would keep repeating incorrect things after they've already been explained repeatedly in the same page of the same topic?




Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 12:29:45 PM
Is there anyone in this topic so far who actually understood what BitShares PTS is?  I didn't.

BitShares PTS has never been sharedropped anything.  Holders of BitShares PTS have never received BTS snapshots.

That was Protoshares that did that.  BitShares PTS is a different coin. 

But all the BitShares users who have commented in this topic are under the false impression that BitShares PTS has been used for snapshots.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: gaba on September 21, 2015, 12:31:47 PM

The percentage you invested is low because the price has dropped severely over the past year -- you can't blame the devs because your investment isn't worth as much now.


 I don't blame the devs for dropped price. I blame them because they are simple remove me as sharedrop target. That is only reason why I invested in BTS trough AGS. I didn't wont BTS(X) and they pretend that I need to be happy because I will receive some.
Quote
BitShares AGS, or Angelshares, represent a way to gain a stake in this new and exciting industry without mining coins. Just as technologist contribute to the launch of a new industry by mining and trading BitShares PTS, or Protoshares, investors can partake by investing in BitShares AGS, or Angelshares. AngelShares are created to acknowledge the equally important financial contribution to the development of an open, distributed, crypto-equity product called BitShares

http://www1.agsexplorer.com/ags101


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: StanLarimer on September 21, 2015, 01:01:44 PM
Wow, this is like a never-ending record.  Asked and answered dozens of times!

AGS and PTS got shares in BTS, VOTE, DNS, PLAY, and MUSE (MUSIC) with two more to come this year (Identabit (via BTS) and another yet to be announced).  

Everybody else has been able to do this and the BitShares.org community happily helps honest newbies figure out how to collect theirs.

Posting that you never received all these shares over and over again, no matter how many people try to help you understand and succeed can only be seen as

Grand Willful Ignorance with Malice Aforethought and Libelous Intent to Create FUD

In most jurisdictions, this foul offense is classified somewhere between felony assault and spray painting graffiti on someone's store front bricks.


  


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 01:54:14 PM

AGS and PTS got shares in BTS, VOTE, DNS, PLAY, and MUSE (MUSIC) with two more to come this year (Identabit (via BTS) and another yet to be announced).


So you're sharedropping more DACs, but not to PTS holders.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png





Everybody else has been able to do this and the BitShares.org community happily helps honest newbies figure out how to collect theirs.


I asked you personally how to register an account with BitShares, and you were unable to tell me:  


I have some Bitshares DNS at Poloniex, but they delisted it because "there are no active devs".  

I haven't been able to find any information about a wallet for Bitshares DNS.  Or PTS for that matter.  

I downloaded the regular Bitshares client, but it said I had to have some Bitshares to register an address before I could deposit any Bitshares, which means I can't deposit any, which means I can't register a deposit address.  So I didn't waste any more time on it, that was about a month ago.

Back in November the developers of BitShares DNS and BitShares VOTE merged their efforts with BitShares X to form a single Super DAC called simply BitShares.

So you use your BitShares wallet to claim BTS proportional to your share of DNS or VOTE.  There will not be separate DNS or VOTE wallets.

BitShares now comes with a built-in faucet to pay your registration for you if you have no funds of your own yet.  When you are looking at your newly created BitShares account you hit the blue Register button in the top right corner and a pop-up window lets you pick which account to pay your half-penny registration fee with.  If you have no such accounts then a faucet account appears and we'll pay the whole half-penny for you.  Just use that.  :)

BitShares PTS was recently upgraded from POW to DPOS by a third party.  So you'll need to import your old PTS wallets into the new one to continue trading them.  You can find that developer's web site here:  http://ptscrypto.com/ (http://ptscrypto.com/)

I'll be back later today with some more links you may find useful.



But, as you know, I was unable to import my old PTS, because Poloniex swapped them to the new PTS.  And, to this day, I have never received a sharedrop of anything because you stopped using PTS but didn't require the coins to be burned in the "merge".

How is it a "merge", when all of the old coins still exist and continue to be sold to people like me?




Grand Willful Ignorance with Malice Aforethought and Libelous Intent to Create FUD

  



And what do they call it when someone promotes shares, promises that holders will receive shares of all future releases, but then only follows through for a few months and then abandons it?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png



I am a PTS holder.  I have been a PTS holder for 10 months.  I have never received any sharedrops.  You are planning to sharedrop new DACs including Identibit, but you are not planning to drop it to PTS holders.  


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on September 21, 2015, 02:10:13 PM
I am a PTS holder.  I have been a PTS holder for 10 months.  I have never received any sharedrops.  You are planning to sharedrop new DACs including Identibit, but you are not planning to drop it to PTS holders.  

...well that is because you bought PTS after the hardfork that effectively merged PTS with BTS. Why the hell did you do that? PTS was kept alive after the hardfork due to a small group of die-hards that wanted to keep it running, but Invictus' association with PTS was more-or-less bought out in the merger. The promise of "sharedrops from future DACs" is kept alive through the BTS that all PTS holders received. Well, the ones that were smart enough to buy before PTS was killed off, that is.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 02:17:46 PM

Currently, BitShares is almost as difficult for the non tech savvy to learn to use as Ethereum


So if I was "tech savvy", I would have been able to register a BitShares account when there was no available faucet link in the wallet, and when Stan Larimer was unable to provide me with any way to register?

Are you sure?  I guess you're saying Stan Larimer isn't tech savvy.





Quote
You first have to download and sync the BitShares wallet, and then you must type in your PTS private key, and then, more BTS than you were originally promised, will suddenly appear in your wallet.


More than I was promised?  As a PTS holder I was promised all future DACs by Stan Larimer, but now he says I won't be receiving any Identibit.




Quote
We al make mistakes, but the existance of an old chain after a new chain is forked from it, is a fact of crypto that scares a lot of people


I own the PTS from the new chain.  The old chain is what Cryptsy sells, the new PTS chain is what Poloniex and Bter sell.





Quote
When the PTS community forked to BitShares


They forked their coin into another coin that already existed?  I don't think you know what "fork" means.  
 
Unless you're saying that BitShares currently runs on the same Proof-of-Work blockchain that began with Protoshares?




Quote
When the PTS community forked to BitShares, they transferred the social contract to all BTS holders



But they didn't.

If PTS was replaced with BitShares, then the PTS would be gone.  That would be a coin swap.  





Quote
Stan Larimer promised that every future DAC would be dropped to PTS holders.  

Link?



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitshares+pts+protoshares


If you can't read the "snapshot" I've posted multiple times in this topic, why should I post it again?  It's on page 1 of a "web-site" called "Google.com", but I understand it's hard for those who aren't tech savvy.

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/caution-watch-for-falling-pts/




Updated on July 18, 2014

We are not recommending changes to the PTS Social Consensus; all developers should continue to honor them with at least 10% in future DACs.

 

All developers should continue to honor the PTS Social Consensus, except for the developers of BitShares?




Quote
Is there anyone in this topic so far who actually understood what BitShares PTS is?  I didn't.

BitShares PTS has never been sharedropped anything.  Holders of BitShares PTS have never received BTS snapshots.

That was Protoshares that did that.  BitShares PTS is a different coin.  

PTS was the abbreviation used for Protoshares.


Let me explain something called a "fork".  PTS was the abbreviation for Protoshares, and that coin network was forked into a coin called BitShares PTS.  Since it is considered the same coin, but forked into a new version, it continues to be traded under the ticker symbol PTS.



Quote
When DPOS was invented for BitShares, the Protoshares miners adopted the DPOS model and kept the coin alive because they are hardcore fans, and they are free to do what they please.  Just as bitcoin cannot be shut down, no other chain that humans choose to keep alive can be killed except via mass extinction level event.


But all of the coins could have been consumed with a simple coin swap for BTS, and that would have been the end of PTS

They didn't do that, because they wanted to get free BTS and then also sell their now-worthless PTS coins when they had no intention of ever sharedropping to them again.   And they even increased the coin supply so they would have extra millions upon millions to dump.



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 02:23:49 PM
I am a PTS holder.  I have been a PTS holder for 10 months.  I have never received any sharedrops.  You are planning to sharedrop new DACs including Identibit, but you are not planning to drop it to PTS holders.  

...well that is because you bought PTS after the hardfork that effectively merged PTS with BTS.


If it was a merge, the PTS coins wouldn't still exist separately.  They would have become BTS coins.  But they didn't, so it wasn't a merge.



Quote
PTS was kept alive after the hardfork due to a small group of die-hards that wanted to keep it running


Do you really believe that lie?  

And what about the 1 Billion PTS coins that still existed?  Are you saying Stan Larimer didn't sell his?  Only "die hard fans" wanted money?



Quote
Well, the ones that were smart enough to buy before PTS was killed off, that is.


When was PTS "killed off"?  In December, "after the merge", PTS performed a sharesplit.  The coin was active and adding new features.  Is that what you mean by "killed off"?  It still has its own forum at Bitsharestalk. 

Are you saying Stan Larimer is not tech-savvy enough to get rid of old coins that weren't supposed to exist after a coinswap?

Are you saying Stan Larimer tried to "kill" PTS, but he can't get the PTS forum removed from Bitsharestalk?



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: nomoreheroes7 on September 21, 2015, 02:59:29 PM
I am a PTS holder.  I have been a PTS holder for 10 months.  I have never received any sharedrops.  You are planning to sharedrop new DACs including Identibit, but you are not planning to drop it to PTS holders.  

...well that is because you bought PTS after the hardfork that effectively merged PTS with BTS.


If it was a merge, the PTS coins wouldn't still exist separately.  They would have become BTS coins.  But they didn't, so it wasn't a merge.


That's why I said effectively merged. PTS' value became BTS' value. Since you can't kill a blockchain (you know, the whole point of crypto), that was the best that could be done.

Either way I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point. I'll just go back to watching the BTS price rise in anticipation for October 13th.  ::)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 03:33:34 PM

That's why I said effectively merged. PTS' value became BTS' value. Since you can't kill a blockchain (you know, the whole point of crypto), that was the best that could be done.


Then how do other coins achieve swaps without all the old coins still in circulation?  That's right, they require users to send their old coins before they receive the new coins.  

But after "they did the best that could be done", there were a billion PTS in circulation.  



Quote
Either way I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point. I'll just go back to watching the BTS price rise in anticipation for October 13th.  ::)


Now who's trolling?  BTS is still selling for less than the launch price.  


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 03:42:18 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/merge.png







PTS and BTS were not merged.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 03:52:28 PM
But since Protoshares was launched by Invictus Innovations, and they now say that Protoshares merged with BitShares, then BitShares would inherit the responsibilities and promises of Invictus Innovations.  That means inherited the promise to distribute their DACs to holders of PTS.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: Scamlarimer on September 21, 2015, 04:19:45 PM
The name of the game is jump through the hoops while we rename and rename and merge and add more hoops.

If you monkeys didn't notice your shares dilluted from the merger (genious), then I bet you can't wait for what we got planned next.


Name changes, more hoops, and more mergers.


Here suck on these brownie points.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 21, 2015, 06:25:43 PM
This is the scam that never ends,
It just goes on and on my friends,
Some people got conned into buying it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue scamming you forever just because...

This is the scam that never ends,
It just goes on and on my friends,
Some people got conned into buying it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue scamming you forever just because...

This is the scam that never ends,
It just goes on and on my friends,
Some people got conned into buying it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue scamming you forever just because...


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 08:39:50 PM
Thanks for the detailed point-by-point response.


I started this topic because I have PTS at Poloniex and I want it to be worth more.  If any coin or project announced a planned drop, people would once again start buying PTS.  That would be nice.


You have explained a lot of the history of BitShares that most people probably don't know.

But I do see one discrepancy:




So around Halloween last year, there was a second BitShares snapshot where Protoshares holders were given additional shares that were worth more than the total Protoshares market cap (due to their post "original BitShares snapshot earlier in the spring" exposure).  All the Protoshares holders had to do in return for this immediate windfall was to change their name to something else (anything) in order to allow the original "Protoshares Promise" to remain valid.  Some group of kids rebranded Protoshares as BitShares PTS so as to not make people think that they should expect any sharedrops from Invictus due to the "Protoshares Promises" flooding Google.  

After that final Protoshares snapshot, Invictus was no longer beholden to Protoshares holders, but to BTS (which now included every Protoshare owner on the planet).  At that point, they formed Voltron, and proceeded to develop the magic that you are about to witness.  and the rest will be history.. Exciting times indeed.

...

So did they break their promise (of providing the Protoshares holders with at least 10% of every future DAC)?  


Technically no, because "Protoshares" changed their name that day to BitSharesPTS



So was it around Halloween, or 8 months earlier in February?  

You are saying "some group of kids" rebranded Protoshares to BitShares PTS, in November, after the final snapshot.

But in the above quote, in February 2014, Stan Larimer is already saying that it had changed from Protoshares to BitShares PTS.  

That was before any sharedrops had ever happened, and the first DAC wasn't even released yet.  BitShares itself had not been released yet.  And Protoshares had already changed to BitShares PTS.  

The sharedrops and merger were still going through November 2014, to the people who held BitShares PTS in November 2014.  Not to the people who had previously held Protoshares, but to anyone who bought BitShares PTS in November.  

So the coin I currently hold, Bitshares PTS, is the same coin which was used for every single BitShares DAC sharedrop, since the very first drop of BitShares itself.  

Why have multiple people told me that I have a different coin, that I've confused Protoshares with BitShares PTS, and that drops were only made to the previous coin?

If the answer is simply "because they changed their mind and no longer use BitShares PTS for drops", then just say so.  

Since Invictus Innovations Incorporated no longer exists, their promise has technically been fulfilled - unless any of the DACs released in 2015 contain any development that originated with Invictus in 2014.  

In that case, I have been promised shares of any such DAC because I hold BitShares PTS.  Here is a link to that promise:  https://letstalkbitcoin.com/caution-watch-for-falling-pts/

(I won't bother exploring the fact that all 10 employees of Invictus hired themselves as delegates and developers of BitShares, continuing the same development without interruption, so that there can be no clear distinction drawn between development done by Invictus and development done by BitShares - http://bitsharesblog.com/invictus-innovations-incorporated-i3-wound-down/)

Plus, it is more than misleading for the creator of BitShares to tell other devs that they should honor the agreement, and then not honor it himself:

Updated on July 18, 2014

We are not recommending changes to the PTS Social Consensus; all developers should continue to honor them with at least 10% in future DACs.

 


Some people are giving me false information, and they're pushing it really hard.  They really want me to believe that Protoshares didn't change to BitShares PTS until the final snapshot - but it had already changed before the first snapshot.



And guess who also takes snapshots?  The Wayback Machine!

This is from January 20, 2014, before any BitShares or DACs had ever been dropped:



https://web.archive.org/web/20140120131210/http://invictus-innovations.com/social-consensus/


Quote
Statement of Social Consensus

Google defines a Social Contract as ďan implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits.Ē Another term that means the same thing is Social Consensus.  We use the terms interchangeably, but prefer Consensus because it is simply more accurate.   It also emphasizes the two-way nature of the consensus.   It is beyond our control to prevent a copycat from forking our open source code in a way that fails to honor this consensus.  It is up to the market to reject this, or not.

BitShares PTS (a.k.a "proto-shares") is a digital currency just like Bitcoin.  The difference is that PTS is backed by something of more tangible value - the future potential of an entire new  industry of Decentralized Autonomous Companies (DACs),  The PTS Social Consensus simply states that holders of PTS will give preference to DACs that initialize their internal money supplies proportionally to the current distribution of the PTS currency.  Savvy DAC developers do this to gain the rapid support of PTS holders who represent the overwhelming majority of knowledgable early adopters of DAC-backed currencies.  It is thus a more targeted give-away than the typical mining-based lottery system used by most crypto-currencies.  It targets established early adopters who can help get the new DAC adopted quickly.

Our first formal statement of the PTS Social Consensus was that we would support only DACs that honor BitShares PTS.  This was first published in our October newsletter and again in our forum on Nov 3, prior to genesis on Nov 5, 2013:

At a DACís pre-published launch time, the DACís genesis block shall be initialized
to precisely match the current unspent outputs of its corresponding PTS blockchain.

A week later we informally generalized this to at least 10% of all DACs we support.  

All chains shall be derived from PTS,
with a 1:1 mapping and 10% of the ultimate money supply of that chain.


The 10% requirement is a minimum, since any number greater than that also satisfies the consensus.  The 1:1 mapping and 10% minimum together set an upper limit on the number of shares a DAC may allocate.  If only 1.5M PTS exist at DAC release, then 15M is the derived upper limit to number of shares for that DAC.  Developers may equivalently exercise the right to scale the share count to the needs of each DAC while preserving percentages for all stakeholders.

In this document, we are formally endorsing an integrated BitShares Social Consensus for PTS, AGS and all derived BitShares DACs. This consensus is further defined in the BitShares Consensus Software License (BCSL).  We also clean up the language to better comply with the laws of our jurisdiction. To that end, Invictus will only endorse, support and promote DACs that meet all of the following applicable consensus requirements:

For all third party DACs:

Allocate at least 10% of its internal money supply to PTS holders at genesis.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: Scamlarimer on September 21, 2015, 09:22:33 PM
We're going to need a diagram of all the mergers and name changing.

This shit got complicated real fast.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: sidhujag on September 21, 2015, 09:28:44 PM


This is why there was the merger last November between BitShares, DNS, Vote, and PTS etc...  There was a nice site explaining it all called BitShares reloaded however can't find it anymore.  AGS holders also got their PTS returned which was quite a nice surprise.

I'm AGS holder. Yes, they returned PTS after they became worthless. I bought AGS with BTC and didn't get anything back ;). They are just bunch of scammers. Today I only receiving BTS dust which is by the way locked!!!!
And of course I'am not sharedrop target anymore in percentage I invested. From now on, Dan and Stan suggesting that better sharedrop target is Brownie.PTS, private issue token inside BTS created by Dan. He is better than Madoff. Someone from USA will need to take legal actions against him and his company. He recently open another one to hide his frauds.

 

No you got BTS for your PTS and AGS, more than if you had just bought PTS and got BTS.. so I don't get what you are saying.

I mined 1000 PTS and got 20k bts from that which gave me incentive to start developing to increase the value of BTS over time.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: sidhujag on September 21, 2015, 09:30:35 PM
Thanks for the detailed point-by-point response.


I started this topic because I have PTS at Poloniex and I want it to be worth more.  If any coin or project announced a planned drop, people would once again start buying PTS.  That would be nice.


You have explained a lot of the history of BitShares that most people probably don't know.

But I do see one discrepancy:




So around Halloween last year, there was a second BitShares snapshot where Protoshares holders were given additional shares that were worth more than the total Protoshares market cap (due to their post "original BitShares snapshot earlier in the spring" exposure).  All the Protoshares holders had to do in return for this immediate windfall was to change their name to something else (anything) in order to allow the original "Protoshares Promise" to remain valid.  Some group of kids rebranded Protoshares as BitShares PTS so as to not make people think that they should expect any sharedrops from Invictus due to the "Protoshares Promises" flooding Google.  

After that final Protoshares snapshot, Invictus was no longer beholden to Protoshares holders, but to BTS (which now included every Protoshare owner on the planet).  At that point, they formed Voltron, and proceeded to develop the magic that you are about to witness.  and the rest will be history.. Exciting times indeed.

...

So did they break their promise (of providing the Protoshares holders with at least 10% of every future DAC)?  


Technically no, because "Protoshares" changed their name that day to BitSharesPTS



So was it around Halloween, or 8 months earlier in February?  

You are saying "some group of kids" rebranded Protoshares to BitShares PTS, in November, after the final snapshot.

But in the above quote, in February 2014, Stan Larimer is already saying that it had changed from Protoshares to BitShares PTS.  

That was before any sharedrops had ever happened, and the first DAC wasn't even released yet.  BitShares itself had not been released yet.  And Protoshares had already changed to BitShares PTS.  

The sharedrops and merger were still going through November 2014, to the people who held BitShares PTS in November 2014.  Not to the people who had previously held Protoshares, but to anyone who bought BitShares PTS in November.  

So the coin I currently hold, Bitshares PTS, is the same coin which was used for every single BitShares DAC sharedrop, since the very first drop of BitShares itself.  

Why have multiple people told me that I have a different coin, that I've confused Protoshares with BitShares PTS, and that drops were only made to the previous coin?

If the answer is simply "because they changed their mind and no longer use BitShares PTS for drops", then just say so.  

Since Invictus Innovations Incorporated no longer exists, their promise has technically been fulfilled - unless any of the DACs released in 2015 contain any development that originated with Invictus in 2014.  

In that case, I have been promised shares of any such DAC because I hold BitShares PTS.  Here is a link to that promise:  https://letstalkbitcoin.com/caution-watch-for-falling-pts/

(I won't bother exploring the fact that all 10 employees of Invictus hired themselves as delegates and developers of BitShares, continuing the same development without interruption, so that there can be no clear distinction drawn between development done by Invictus and development done by BitShares - http://bitsharesblog.com/invictus-innovations-incorporated-i3-wound-down/)

Plus, it is more than misleading for the creator of BitShares to tell other devs that they should honor the agreement, and then not honor it himself:

Updated on July 18, 2014

We are not recommending changes to the PTS Social Consensus; all developers should continue to honor them with at least 10% in future DACs.

 


Some people are giving me false information, and they're pushing it really hard.  They really want me to believe that Protoshares didn't change to BitShares PTS until the final snapshot - but it had already changed before the first snapshot.



And guess who also takes snapshots?  The Wayback Machine!

This is from January 20, 2014, before any BitShares or DACs had ever been dropped:



https://web.archive.org/web/20140120131210/http://invictus-innovations.com/social-consensus/


Quote
Statement of Social Consensus

Google defines a Social Contract as ďan implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits.Ē Another term that means the same thing is Social Consensus.  We use the terms interchangeably, but prefer Consensus because it is simply more accurate.   It also emphasizes the two-way nature of the consensus.   It is beyond our control to prevent a copycat from forking our open source code in a way that fails to honor this consensus.  It is up to the market to reject this, or not.

BitShares PTS (a.k.a "proto-shares") is a digital currency just like Bitcoin.  The difference is that PTS is backed by something of more tangible value - the future potential of an entire new  industry of Decentralized Autonomous Companies (DACs),  The PTS Social Consensus simply states that holders of PTS will give preference to DACs that initialize their internal money supplies proportionally to the current distribution of the PTS currency.  Savvy DAC developers do this to gain the rapid support of PTS holders who represent the overwhelming majority of knowledgable early adopters of DAC-backed currencies.  It is thus a more targeted give-away than the typical mining-based lottery system used by most crypto-currencies.  It targets established early adopters who can help get the new DAC adopted quickly.

Our first formal statement of the PTS Social Consensus was that we would support only DACs that honor BitShares PTS.  This was first published in our October newsletter and again in our forum on Nov 3, prior to genesis on Nov 5, 2013:

At a DACís pre-published launch time, the DACís genesis block shall be initialized
to precisely match the current unspent outputs of its corresponding PTS blockchain.

A week later we informally generalized this to at least 10% of all DACs we support.  

All chains shall be derived from PTS,
with a 1:1 mapping and 10% of the ultimate money supply of that chain.


The 10% requirement is a minimum, since any number greater than that also satisfies the consensus.  The 1:1 mapping and 10% minimum together set an upper limit on the number of shares a DAC may allocate.  If only 1.5M PTS exist at DAC release, then 15M is the derived upper limit to number of shares for that DAC.  Developers may equivalently exercise the right to scale the share count to the needs of each DAC while preserving percentages for all stakeholders.

In this document, we are formally endorsing an integrated BitShares Social Consensus for PTS, AGS and all derived BitShares DACs. This consensus is further defined in the BitShares Consensus Software License (BCSL).  We also clean up the language to better comply with the laws of our jurisdiction. To that end, Invictus will only endorse, support and promote DACs that meet all of the following applicable consensus requirements:

For all third party DACs:

Allocate at least 10% of its internal money supply to PTS holders at genesis.

At the time of snapshot there was only one PTS period, it was then rebranded and a new genesis block was born which sharedropped the original PTS but nothing to do with BTS from that point on.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 09:55:54 PM

Dan and Stan suggesting that better sharedrop target is Brownie.PTS

Got a link?  Didn't think so.



What are Brownie.PTS?  Sounds similar to the PTS I already have.

Let's check it out:



Quote from: bytemaster

Announcing Brownie Points (BROWNIE.PTS)

Today I am happy to announce a new way of giving credit to those who contribute to the BitShares community, Brownie Points.   According to Wikipedia, brownie points are a hypothetical social currency, which can be acquired by doing good deeds or earning favor in the eyes of another.    

Normally brownie points are not tracked, but with the advent of BitShares it is now possible for us to actually track brownie points.  I have created a digital asset called BROWNIE.PTS on the BitShares network.   Brownie Points will be given away liberally to anyone who does anything positive for the BitShares community or Cryptonomex as recognition for earning my favor.

Everyone who attends a Friday Mumble sessions will be awarded with 100 BROWNIE.PTS, everyone who makes a useful, positive post on the forum will earn 10 BROWNIE.PTS.  Everyone who finds and reports an actual bug on github will be rewarded with 100 BROWNIE.PTS.   Anyone who resolves a legitimate issue on GitHub will be rewarded with major BROWNIE.PTS.    

I will award brownie points for just about anything that I appreciate and in proportion to the amount that I appreciate it.   If you are interested in helping me dole out BROWNIE.PTS then please contact me because I would really appreciate the help!    

What are Brownie Points Good for?

Technically all Brownie Points mean is that you are on my good side.  Brownie Points are not redeemable for anything and do not create any obligations between me and anyone else.   BROWNIE.PTS is a tool that allows me to keep track of everyone who is in my good favor and to what extent.   You will want to make sure you claim your BROWNIE.PTS because it would just be rude to refuse the BROWNIE.PTS and one day you may regret it; Karma can be a Bitch.        

Claiming Past Brownie Points

If you have contributed to BitShares over the past two years, please post in this thread with a detailed description of the work you have done and an estimate of how much time and money you spent doing that work.  Include your BTS account name and you may find some BROWNIE.PTS in your wallet.  

No Obligations

BROWNIE.PTS is merely a tool for my own use and I may choose to stop issuing brownie points at any time for any reason.   I may reward them (or not) as I see fit, in the amounts I see fit, for the reasons I see fit.   I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.  

ę Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 06:40:35 PM by bytemaster Ľ

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.0.html?PHPSESSID=g9b0lri71712l32mor9b3i2pc6



Quote from: bytemaster
All of the developers will be earning brownie points in addition to everything else.  



Quote from: bytemaster
So far I have distributed 2,800,000 BROWNIE.PTS among 50 people!  
...
To put things in perspective I am allocating about 200,000 per full-time-year of effort as a rough unit,  or 100 BROWNIE.PTS per hour contributed.


So...is that 2,000,000PTS to yourself and 9 other devs, for 1 year's work, and then 800,000 between 40 other people?






Quote from: bytemaster
Anyone may buy and sell Brownie Points.  



Quote from: bytemaster
Quote from: arhag
I don't get how you are going to be able to seize BROWNIE.PTS if they aren't sent and kept to the recipient accounts' public balances (how would you know who you are seizing the balance from?).


You are right, if kept in a blinded balance it couldn't be seized but it also wouldn't be useful for me to track who has earned my good will.    You will be able to disable blinded balances on an asset-by-asset basis so I will probably just disable blinded balances for BROWNIE.PTS.


So you're going to allow people to buy it from other people, but you will seize it from anyone you don't like.




Quote from: bytemaster
Quote from: clayop
How many BPs are distributed so far? (Current supply is 8.2 mil but not sure all of them are distributed)

4M of those are not distributed.   They will continue to be issued and distributed as necessary.




Quote from: Stan
I can't think of a better criteria for who should get a share than those who helped build the ecosystem.
...
In this case, Underwood decided that Bytemaster's thank you note system was as good a metric as any.


So Brownie PTS are the best criteria for who should get a share of other DACs?



Quote from: Stan
Quote from: Sumantso
Making it a sharedrop target equivalent to BTS is insane; especially if you consider the ad-hoc and whimsical nature of its distribution.

Nothing ad-hoc or whimsical about it.
...
Net effect - a perfectly reasonable combination for someone to use as a mailing list to give away promotional tokens in a way that is part random and largely targeted to a demographic of helpful people.  It doesn't have to be perfect to serve its intended purpose.

And after all that, it is up to the giver, Underwood in this case, to determine if this particular mailing list serves his own purposes - which may or may not coincide perfectly with Bytemaster's.  The list exists.  People are free to use it if they like.


Quote from: Stan
Brownie.PTS is what it is.   John found it to be the best available mailing list for what he wanted to do.



Quote from: Stan
Brownies were not invented with sharedropping in mind, but they did come out shortly before the time John and I were discussing his genesis distribution.  He was interested in reaching out to people who have demonstrated a willingness to actively help bootstrap a chain and I pointed out that Dan's new brownies were a virtual who's who in that category.  He immediately liked that idea and that was the end of the discussion.



That's Stan Larimer saying BrowniePTS is a better sharedrop target.  Here's the link:  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.240.html




Quote from: bytemaster
The numbers are 20% to BTS and 20% to Brownie.PTS in the genesis supply.


And they gave themselves the majority of BrowniePTS.




Quote from: Stan
Our position has always been that the developer of a new coin should be free to choose a distribution that will maximize the potential of the coin, including selling them all herself.

Actually that is false.  Your position in your Official Stated Terms and Conditions was that the developer was required to drop 10% to PTS holders.  And not BrowniePTS, but BitSharesPTS.


Terms and Conditions, January 20, 2014:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140120131220/http://invictus-innovations.com/terms-and-conditions-2/


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 09:58:47 PM

Dan and Stan suggesting that better sharedrop target is Brownie.PTS

Got a link?  Didn't think so.



Why were you so sure, when you were actually incorrect?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 21, 2015, 10:01:55 PM
anyone can create a UIA, brownie points are just a UIA and the fact that is has market demand has nothing to do with how it is distributed at will by someone who owns the UIA.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 10:34:02 PM
anyone can create a UIA, brownie points are just a UIA and the fact that is has market demand has nothing to do with how it is distributed at will by someone who owns the UIA.


Yes, anyone can create an asset.  You say the asset creator's associations with BitShares developers doesn't matter;  aren't you the least bit concerned about what goes on behind the scenes, when 40% of an asset is dropped to shares that are mostly controlled by the Larimers?  20% to BTS, and 20% to BrowniePTS which Dan can issue to himself without limit?


Speaking of new BitShares assets and their questionable business practices, have you heard of BanxShares?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1181883.0


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 21, 2015, 11:00:19 PM
anyone can create a UIA, brownie points are just a UIA and the fact that is has market demand has nothing to do with how it is distributed at will by someone who owns the UIA.


Yes, anyone can create an asset.  You say the asset creator's associations with BitShares developers doesn't matter;  aren't you the least bit concerned about what goes on behind the scenes, when 40% of an asset is dropped to shares that are mostly controlled by the Larimers?  20% to BTS, and 20% to BrowniePTS which Dan can issue to himself without limit?


Speaking of new BitShares assets and their questionable business practices, have you heard of BanxShares?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1181883.0

Yes I have (https://bitshares.org/blog/2015/06/23/banx-capital-joins-the-bitshares-exchange-network/). Its a legitimate project that is up to the community to deem viable or not based on the business plan. You can come up with a runPaintShare which you may sell in exchange for services in which you host delegates or payment processing nodes which pay service fees and distribute dividends to share holders. Its really up to your imagination and its an open market, BanxShares has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the platform itself which is a generalized API for business so to speak.

By viable I mean if he/she is running as a delegate can be voted in/out and if people want to be in on the company profits they can buy the UIA (or not).

I find this analogous to copy cat clones offering services in new coins of bitcoin which may or  may not pan out but many hopeful investors join in, some projects are fruitful and give back while others are left for the dust. Not every business is successful.


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 21, 2015, 11:06:36 PM
All the BTS community knew that some people would fail to adequately research their PTS investment


What is "adequate"?  A promise from the devs - publicly available to this day to anyone who Googles for PTS - that all future drops would go to BitShares PTS holders?

All they had to do was a normal coinswap, just like every other coin does.  Then there wouldn't be any coins in existence that they didn't want to exist.  




Quote
No, Protoshares was always "PTS" and so was BitShares PTS after they changed their name in October.


I've already proven that they had changed the name to BitShares PTS before February.  Why do you keep repeating that, when it's not true?  




Quote
Because PTS holders received their payday under the condition that they never expect another sharedrop from Invictus.  But since the greedy PTS holders said : well technically, there is nothing stopping another coin dev from dropping on us, we have the right to not only keep PTS alive, but to continue promoting it.  The reaction from the BTS community who had just paid them to shut their mouths was: "yeah, and there's no incentive for a dev to sharedrop on an obviously greedy group of selfish assholes who would damage the community that just paid them more than their coin was worth to pitch in an give some effort for the greater good Bitcoin2.O, and instead, they worked to undermine the communities best efforts.


If that is what happened, why didn't they simply require PTS to be sent and swapped, which would have prevented that problem?





Quote
It's not even about being technically fulfilled, it was about being a socially acceptable deal, and since greater than market rates were paid, by any common sense measure, it was more than fair.


Yes, it is 100% about whether they fulfilled their obligations.  It has nothing to do with "being fair".  

I am a PTS holder.  Therefore, it makes a big difference to me whether they are obligated to drop me any future shares.

It makes no difference to me if they gave some other people a lot of shares.  That doesn't change the fact that I am a PTS holder.





Quote
One day he is going to wake up and feel sick to his stomach when he realizes the kind of people that all his hard work is benefiting


Did you happen to read what I quoted from Dan, regarding the distribution and seizure of BrowniePTS?

What kind of people are you worried about benefiting, if you're not worried about benefiting a totalitarian power-monger who seeks to silence his personal critics through the threat of public shaming and financial penalties?




Quote
No it didn't, who said that? PTS always stood for "Protoshares" until the October snapshot when they started calling it BitShares PTS


How many links do I need to post, showing Stan Larimer calling it BitShares PTS in January and February of the same year?


https://web.archive.org/web/20140120131210/http://invictus-innovations.com/social-consensus/



and also



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 21, 2015, 11:12:52 PM
Which new PTS are you referring to?

The new one is this: http://ptscrypto.com/ or https://github.com/PTS-DPOS/PTS

This one has nothing to do with bitshares. It uses DPOS. The old one uses POW https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-pts

You can see on the old one there is a message saying there is a new PTS using DPOS... the idea was that any devs building ontop of bitshares would use PTS from the NEW pts DPOS chain to sharedrop and the old one which had a bad diff algo causing the difficulty to go sky high on minimal mining was left to go obsolete. The original was used to sharedrop when BTS happened and a few other projects. Its up to the social consensus of these new projects to consider the "new" PTS to sharedrop on new coins or assets. It's not up to the dev team to push this mandate.

It wasn't swapped/burned because it wasn't officially the dev team that created the new PTS AFAIK. It was an independent project.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 22, 2015, 01:04:22 AM
Quote
You are free to issue your runpaintBrownies if you please.
... 
Please, create some UIA's and have your friends do it too.


My friends and I don't own Bitsharestalk, and we can't convince developers to give us 20% of their new asset for free.  So it's a little different when Stan and Dan do it.




Quote
The cost is 5,000 BTS currently I believe (all profits go to Bitcoin2.O holders).
...
if they are cool, then I might sharedrop my next project on them (see how the future looks)


Where have I heard that before?  I already spent money for BitSharesPTS, and you're not going to sharedrop to that.  Why should I pay for another asset?



Quote
we love Crypti, we just don't let our devs code for them

But the Invictus devs code for BitShares, because Invictus merged with BitShares and brought all their projects with them.  So BitShares2.0 is an Invictus DAC, which was promised to be sharedropped to holders of BitShares PTS, which is me. 





Still, I would tear stan a new one if I saw that he said that Brownies were better than BTS for sharedrops, but I'm not doing that goose chase thanks.


Nice try, but that wasn't the question.  We're discussing why the devs say Brownie PTS are better for drops than BitShares PTS.



I'm AGS holder. Yes, they returned PTS after they became worthless. I bought AGS with BTC and didn't get anything back ;). They are just bunch of scammers. Today I only receiving BTS dust which is by the way locked!!!!
And of course I'am not sharedrop target anymore in percentage I invested. From now on, Dan and Stan suggesting that better sharedrop target is Brownie.PTS, private issue token inside BTS created by Dan. He is better than Madoff. Someone from USA will need to take legal actions against him and his company. He recently open another one to hide his frauds.



Dan and Stan suggesting that better sharedrop target is Brownie.PTS

Got a link?  Didn't think so.


But I did have a link, so you thought wrong.





Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 22, 2015, 12:51:01 PM

- yes, the name Protoshares was changed to BitSharesPTS in the spring of 2014, and a I recall, this was because we wanted to raise the visibility of the sharedrop target


What do you mean, "as you recall"?  You've proven that your recollection can't be trusted, because you've been insisting that it wasn't changed until October.

So when you say "as I recall", maybe you mean "since you've repeatedly proven me wrong, I'm going to change my story and pretend that I remembered it myself."





Quote
The choice was an obvious one that only you, and others in your shoes regret.


The obvious choice was a normal coinswap.  They didn't do that, because they're greedy and wanted to have their coins and sell them too.

And now that I'm raising a stink about it, it looks like BitShares people regret it too.  They don't want me talking about it or "trolling and fudding", but here I am.  If it gives them a headache, hopefully it was worth the coins they sold twice.

"PTS merged with BTS, we don't regret it."

If they merged, why is PTS still trading separately for 16 satoshis?  That's right - because they gave themselves extra BTS to "replace" their PTS, and then they sold the PTS anyway.

If they don't regret it, why are so many of them coming to this topic to lie about it?



 
  
Quote
However, of all the bad marketing decisions Invictus has made over the years, this was not one of them (to change the name from BitSharesX to BitShares and get rid of all competing chains to consolidate development).


You're saying they made a decision to get rid of the BitShares PTS blockchain?  Then why didn't they attempt to actually do it?





The BitShares community is a contract-free zone where at no point in time shall there exist a legal obligation for any party to behave any way in the future.  

Too late, you already promised your obligations at one point in time.   If you don't want it to be serious, then stop selling it for real money.  

Here is the BitShares Social Contract - That's the word YOU used, "Contract" - which obligates certain people to behave a certain way in the future - and you came up with it yourselves:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140120131210/http://invictus-innovations.com/social-consensus/

Quote
"Google defines a Social Contract as ďan implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits.Ē Another term that means the same thing is Social Consensus.  We use the terms interchangeably"

https://web.archive.org/web/20140120131210/http://invictus-innovations.com/social-consensus/


So if BitShares is a "contract-free zone", then the Larimers have to leave.





In total BTS will ďair dropĒ  7% PTS, 7% AGS, 3% VOTE, and 3% DNS.  This air drop is not a buyout or merger but a no strings attached gift to these communities to encourage them to contribute to BTSX rather than their own competitors.



Quote
PTS, AGS, VOTE and DNS stakes will vest linearly over 2 years, meaning that each day users will get to claim some of their stake.

PTS will continue to circulate and trade; however, without I3 planning any future snapshots its value will be based upon the speculative value of 3rd party DACs such as Music, Play, and others.  


 

Quote
PTS / AGS holders will effectively receive 20% stake in all PAST and FUTURE blockchain ideas built by the Invictus team through this air drop, plus a much larger cut in DevShares, Play, and Music among others.





AGS was a gift... no strings attached.  Anyone who has AGS and is complaining has no one they can blame but themselves for setting wrong expectations.  



That's an outright lie.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140120131210/http://invictus-innovations.com/social-consensus/

Who set the expectations for what AGS holders would get?  Did AGS holders publish those expectations themselves, at Invictus-Innovations.com?




PTS is liquid and will remain liquid.  
PTS is receiving a gradual snapshot as features are implemented on a time table that is similar to when PTS would have received their snapshots.




holders were hoping for a future snapshot in a real DAC as obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake... until there is a "real dac" PTS holders are not really liquid.  
 ...
So you don't want to be locked in for a gradual 2 year release.... then sell to someone who is willing to be locked in for 2 years.  There are many buyers of PTS that are pricing in a discount for giving up liquidity and you have the option.    Be liquid and sell today... or get a larger stake over 2 years.




If we look at the numbers:

PTS/AGS got 20% of BTSX = 400,000,000 BTSX
BTSX gets 80% of BTS = 2,000,000,000 BTS
PTS/AGS get 16% of the 500M BTS = 80,000,000 BTS

So in total PTS/AGS gets 19.2% of BTS. So the social contract is only short 0.8%.

Now any DAC that snapshots BTS to bootstrap their DAC will effectively be honoring AGS/PTS.

So PLEASE tell the Chinese community that even if they are furious about this situation that they DO NOT destroy any of their accounts that have a balance.

Yes but BTS will only be snapshotted 20% I presume so they will get 20% of 20% which is 4%.

Tell them that we don't expect any forks worth while to fork at just 20%... I think third parties will do what is best... we always said that AGS/PTS was voluntariy and best practice is 10%.... not everyone does 10%.   The point is that I wouldn't worry about 3rd parties much... it would be like complaining that you aren't getting a large stake in all of the alt coins.




PTS will continue (we didn't take your PTS) you were just given a continuous share drop over the next 2 years which is what PTS was expecting anyway with new DACs being launched every couple of months.   Your liquidity wasn't removed.  You can sell your PTS if you like.


But you're already quoted saying "obviously people don't want PTS just for PTS sake".

So you didn't take their PTS, but you did take away its value.  







Quote
But to help you and others learn, I dug out these facts straight from the horses mouth and all it took was a simple:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=5;area=showposts;start=0


Thank you for finding more quotes showing the lies and bad business practices.


Can you find more quotes proving that the "community" is still centrally controlled by the Larimers, and they manipulate people into saying "we as a community made the decision" when in fact the community had no power to do anything?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: crypto jerk on September 22, 2015, 02:51:49 PM
This bts system sure is run like a scam.

Many many many promises. And many many many short sighted fuck ups. Here we have stan night and day slobbering over his brothers intellect, however dan keeps having to change his designs and stories cause they are flawed everytime.

Step 1. Make it complicated
Step 2. Promise a bunch of shit
Step 3. Dissolve the company who made the original promises, oops don't have to honor those promises anymore
Step 4. Rename and merge/dillute
Step 5. Reform into a new organization with exactly all of the same people doing the same thing.
Step 6. Repeat step 1


Title: Re: BitShares PTS - I'd like to see more sharedrops using Protoshares snapshots
Post by: runpaint on September 22, 2015, 03:37:17 PM

In essence, PTS holders changed their name to BTS


And the story changes again.  Didn't you say it was called PTS, and then they changed it to PTS, which was the same name but different?




Quote
then made a new DPOS coin and called it PTS


So you're saying it's a different coin.

Your angle this whole time is that a few miners scammed "people like me", the non-tech-savvy bumblers who "jumped head-first into shallow water", without doing adequate research into what we were buying.   

The problem with your latest story is that I bought the original coin, on Poloniex. 

Anyone who had PTS on Poloniex or Bter got automatically transferred the new coin supply. 

Did Poloniex and Bter get fooled?  They aren't tech savvy? 


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 22, 2015, 08:09:03 PM
these responses are annoying im out


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 22, 2015, 08:32:28 PM

That's going to be really tough when Bitcoin2.O comes out and the Larimers have to do what the community votes them to do or they are fired.



Unless they have more votes than everyone else. 


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: EvilDave on September 22, 2015, 09:15:59 PM
And people say that Nxt is complicated........ :o


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 22, 2015, 09:57:09 PM

That's going to be really tough when Bitcoin2.O comes out and the Larimers have to do what the community votes them to do or they are fired.



Unless they have more votes than everyone else. 

They've rigged voting so they will always come out on top.

DPoS is not decentralized.  Here is why:

For all those interested in how a few of the wealthiest Bitshares' stakeholders can effectively rig the mass majority of the elections, here is how.

It doesn't matter if you collect delegates' SSNs, driver's licenses, birth certificates and thumbprints, Bitshares' DPoS mechanism will always be susceptible to manipulation.  You have introduced a "social construct" (aka voting) which turns Bitshares' delegates into a "government of the wealthy".  No one will ever know what type of "behind-the-scenes" politics is going on which results in which delegates are selected.

Because you have instituted this ridiculous charade into chain security, all your figures on "decentralization" and "speed of decentralization" are speculative and assume that all 101 delegates are unique, non-colluding individuals.  The fact is all these delegates are not going to compete against each other for a position.  Who will become a delegate and control the delegate selection process are the wealthiest stakeholders.  This will be accomplished in a quid pro quo manner.  This means that really Bitshares is less decentralized than NXT because they will be able to form political/business coalitions which imo will result in them dominating the delegate selection process.  The wealthiest stakeholders in Bitshares can do this very easily because it is an "Approval Voting" process.  This allows stakeholders to put the entire weight of their stake behind each and every delegate they approve. The Bitshares' devs will deny this to the very end because they are part of this "ruling elite".

I think I could make a pretty good argument that delegates' "real world" identities being known by the community doesn't really matter or prevent a "Sybil attack".  Imo, what would constitute a "Sybil attack" is the collusion of delegates' motives.  I'm also pretty positive that the colluding delegates wouldn't "harm" the Bitshares' ecosystem, but instead use their power to manipulate delegate elections to capitalize on the delegate positions.  Everybody can know everyones' name, but it's impossible to know their true intentions.

Any block chain has the problem that a few big players can collude, whether they are large stakeholders or large hashpoolers.  We dilute that down to under one percent influence per delegate, max.

Then there's the question of what they can collude about.  We can all observe whether they are performing their very limited block signing job to spec or not. We can look at their published price feeds. They have no other power.

That's true that in all blockchains stakeholders/hashpower can collude, but they can only collude in a one-to-one proportion to their stake/hash.  Since approval voting is used in delegate elections, I maintain that large stakeholders can effectively collude to a multiple proportion of their stake.  Whereby, for example, 20% of colluding stake can disproportionately influence the elections of more than 20% of the delegates.  This leads to a coalition of a few wealthy stakeholders being able to determine the outcomes of the mass majority of the delegate elections.  This is especially true considering that voter turnout of smaller stakeholders will be lower than the voter turnout of larger stakeholders.  As I said previously, it would be the intention of the colluding wealthy stakeholders to not harm Bitshares, but to elect delegates from which they would derive monetary gain in excess to their proportion of stake in the system at the expense of all other stakeholders.

Let's give an example.  Remember, in "approval voting", voters do not just vote for one delegate.  They can select as many or as few delegates as they wish and the entire weight of their stake counts towards each delegate they choose.  Say for instance that the top delegate has 50% of the vote and the 101st delegate has 30% of the vote.  The voting spread percentage is 20% (50%-30%).  If the votes per delegate is a linear increase according to delegate rank, an additional 10% of the stake vote will move the 101st delegate to the 50th position.  Likewise, a removal of 10% of the stake vote from the lower 50 delegates will result in them losing their delegate position.  By strategically voting, a few wealthy stakeholders can influence a disproportionate number of delegate positions in relation to their actual stake.  In this example, a coalition of 10% stake was able to control 50% of the delegates.

Does this sound fair to you?!


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: Bisha on September 22, 2015, 09:59:19 PM
You didn't do due dilligence. You expected BitShares PTS to be sharedropped on when everyone knew they wouldn't work like that anymore. Annoucements were made before hand regarding the merger. Yeah, plans have changed, but so what? You had time to know about that. Only someone who didn't check for info did what you did.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 22, 2015, 10:12:58 PM
You didn't do due dilligence. You expected BitShares PTS to be sharedropped on when everyone knew they wouldn't work like that anymore.


Everyone knew how it was going to work?

You yourself still don't know how it works, which you proved in this confusing conversation.  Everyone here has given a different opinion about what happened with PTS and how it works now. 


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: Pheonike on September 23, 2015, 12:32:37 AM
 
Protoshares which became PTS where sharedropped on. That was there purpose and when the the share drop happened they were suppose to die.You have to understand, the developers (Dan) did not control PTS, it was a POW coin. After the share drop some ppl decided they wanted to keep it running. How do you stop a decentralize POW coin if people continue to mine it? That's why its confusing because there was no way to shutdown PTS after the drop.

Later on some ppl decided they wanted to upgrade PTS to use DPOS like BTS but they fail to get the support and the zombie PTS kept living.

Brownie PTS is actually Brownie Points. People started abbreviating the Points to PTS which of course has caused more confusion for new people. Brownies are user token on on Bitshares issued by Dan to reward the people who have gone above and beyond helping BTS to work. One of the partners decided that they wanted to drop on these peple because they have shown love for the project and would be the kind of ppl they would want to work on their project. Again brownies were not meant to be sharedropped on, but how do you stop somebody from doing it?





Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 23, 2015, 04:24:44 AM
Protoshares which became PTS where sharedropped on. That was there purpose and when the the share drop happened they were suppose to die.You have to understand, the developers (Dan) did not control PTS, it was a POW coin. After the share drop some ppl decided they wanted to keep it running. How do you stop a decentralize POW coin if people continue to mine it? That's why its confusing because there was no way to shutdown PTS after the drop.

They could have required Protoshare holders to burn their coins if they wanted to be sharedropped Bitshares.  That would have effectively destroyed Protoshares.

Brownie PTS is actually Brownie Points. People started abbreviating the Points to PTS which of course has caused more confusion for new people. Brownies are user token on on Bitshares issued by Dan to reward the people who have gone above and beyond helping BTS to work. One of the partners decided that they wanted to drop on these peple because they have shown love for the project and would be the kind of ppl they would want to work on their project. Again brownies were not meant to be sharedropped on, but how do you stop somebody from doing it?

"Brownie Points" are a pathetic attempt to keep everybody towing the line so the never-ending scam can continue to lure in the unsuspecting.  What type of a person, especially one who supposedly believes in crypto, freedom and libertarianism, starts distributing and allowing a currency to be sold to others when they can be confiscated on a whim?

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.0.html (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.0.html)
Quote
I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.  -Bytemaster, Dan Larimer


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 23, 2015, 04:51:19 AM

Protoshares which became PTS where sharedropped on. That was there purpose and when the the share drop happened they were suppose to die.


What do you mean?  Are you saying that people were supposed to stop selling something that they had, that was still being bought on exchanges?  Why would they stop?


Quote
You have to understand, the developers (Dan) did not control PTS, it was a POW coin. After the share drop some ppl decided they wanted to keep it running. How do you stop a decentralize POW coin if people continue to mine it? That's why its confusing because there was no way to shutdown PTS after the drop.


Dan did control PTS, and he held PTS.  He could have shut it down by requiring a coin swap.  Then no exchange would continue to list PTS, because there would be no coins to sell.  

Instead of shutting it down, he let himself keep all his PTS.  Then, amazingly, "someone" gave Dan millions of extra PTS, and then "someone" dumped millions of PTS on the market so the price went from .002BTC to .00000125BTC in 7 days (December 13 to December 20).



Quote
Brownie PTS is actually Brownie Points. People started abbreviating the Points to PTS which of course has caused more confusion for new people.

Yes, there is widespread confusion regarding what actions have been taken and why.



Quote
Brownies are user token on on Bitshares issued by Dan to reward the people

But he gave them mostly to himself.  And they're not to reward people - they're to control and threaten people, and to get more money for Dan and Stan.



Quote
One of the partners decided that they wanted to drop on these peple


Out of 8 million Brownie PTS, Dan kept 4 million for himself.  Then he "distributed" 4 million to his brother, the other devs, his friends, and people who became obligated to give him something in return;  only ~ 50 actual people from the community received shares, and some of them got a total of 333 Brownie PTS.

So what you mean is "one of the partners decided to give a huge percentage of the free coins to Dan and Stan."



Quote
Again brownies were not meant to be sharedropped on, but how do you stop somebody from doing it?


How do you know they weren't meant for sharedrops?  Because they told you?

If they weren't meant for it, do you think it's a coincidence that Dan "accidentally" got a bunch of money out of it?

If they weren't meant for it, why did Dan spend 5000BTS to register them as a User Issued Asset?  For fun?  OH WOW, but then he also got 10% of the entire supply of Identibit!  How lucky for him, and he didn't even plan it!


Just like Dan "didn't want PTS to continue, but then someone gave him millions of extra shares."
Now Dan "didn't want BrowniePTS to be sharedropped, but then someone gave him millions of extra Identibit."


Brownie PTS was announced July 2, and on August 12 Identibit announced it was sharedropping to Brownie PTS.  It is self-evident that Brownie PTS was entirely a way for Dan to get more money for himself, and that he worked together with Identibit to get more for himself through Brownie PTS.




Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 23, 2015, 05:12:31 AM
And what is, Identibit, anyway?  

According to Stan Larimer, it means that all BitShares users will have to register their Social Security Number?



Quote from: Stan

Now, about KYC/AML. It is true that Identabit requires all accounts to have positive ID and you can't collect your sharedrop without an account.  

Catch 22?

No.  Remember the purpose of a sharedrop is to target people who will be your supporters, not to give away free money.  If a person won't sign up with a verified account even to collect free money, then they are identifying themselves as people that Identabit wouldn't want to sharedrop on anyway.

Put it another way.  The sharedrop is a way to get people motivated to overcome their natural crypto-reluctance to identify themselves, even though they do it every day to collect their paychecks and pay their taxes.  Just because we want some place to keep our finances anonymous does not mean that every place has to be anonomyous.  So, requiring us cryptoheads to register helps break down that barrier, and is thus a key strategy to get cryptoheads used to the concept of having a mix of anonymous and identity-based accounts. Knowing how to use both is a key to the complementary roles of BitShares and Identabit the way folks know the difference between savings and checking acounts today.

Those who are not willing to take that little leap, will never be Identabit supporters anyway and are thus self-judged to be likely dumpers.


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.375.html


Stan also says if you don't want the government to connect your identity with how many BitShares you own, don't claim Identibit.  


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 23, 2015, 05:16:09 AM


Here's a faithful BitShares community member, earlier this month in September 2015:


Quote from: dritz3r

I own AGS and the only reason I invested in BTS is to become the target of future sharedrops. That was the promise from Dan and Stan. AGS buyer had special place in their posts at that time. Now some 'mumble' listener  or Forum member with BROWNIE.PTS have bigger share in future DACs. I invested xx BTC when price was 600USD.  As post 28/2 investor I only received BTS dust and the worst thing is that most of them are still locked. We even did't have chance to sell AGS. Remember you returned PTS which was also the currency for buying AGS.

Dan and Stan is that all. Is that your final decision that Brownie.PTS worth more than AGS. Please answer me I'am really disappointed.


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.360.html


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: Pheonike on September 23, 2015, 07:10:46 AM

Protoshares which became PTS where sharedropped on. That was there purpose and when the the share drop happened they were suppose to die.


What do you mean?  Are you saying that people were supposed to stop selling something that they had, that was still being bought on exchanges?  Why would they stop?


Quote
You have to understand, the developers (Dan) did not control PTS, it was a POW coin. After the share drop some ppl decided they wanted to keep it running. How do you stop a decentralize POW coin if people continue to mine it? That's why its confusing because there was no way to shutdown PTS after the drop.


Dan did control PTS, and he held PTS.  He could have shut it down by requiring a coin swap.  Then no exchange would continue to list PTS, because there would be no coins to sell.  

Instead of shutting it down, he let himself keep all his PTS.  Then, amazingly, "someone" gave Dan millions of extra PTS, and then "someone" dumped millions of PTS on the market so the price went from .002BTC to .00000125BTC in 7 days (December 13 to December 20).



Quote
Brownie PTS is actually Brownie Points. People started abbreviating the Points to PTS which of course has caused more confusion for new people.

Yes, there is widespread confusion regarding what actions have been taken and why.



Quote
Brownies are user token on on Bitshares issued by Dan to reward the people

But he gave them mostly to himself.  And they're not to reward people - they're to control and threaten people, and to get more money for Dan and Stan.



Quote
One of the partners decided that they wanted to drop on these peple


Out of 8 million Brownie PTS, Dan kept 4 million for himself.  Then he "distributed" 4 million to his brother, the other devs, his friends, and people who became obligated to give him something in return;  only ~ 50 actual people from the community received shares, and some of them got a total of 333 Brownie PTS.

So what you mean is "one of the partners decided to give a huge percentage of the free coins to Dan and Stan."



Quote
Again brownies were not meant to be sharedropped on, but how do you stop somebody from doing it?


How do you know they weren't meant for sharedrops?  Because they told you?

If they weren't meant for it, do you think it's a coincidence that Dan "accidentally" got a bunch of money out of it?

If they weren't meant for it, why did Dan spend 5000BTS to register them as a User Issued Asset?  For fun?  OH WOW, but then he also got 10% of the entire supply of Identibit!  How lucky for him, and he didn't even plan it!


Just like Dan "didn't want PTS to continue, but then someone gave him millions of extra shares."
Now Dan "didn't want BrowniePTS to be sharedropped, but then someone gave him millions of extra Identibit."


Brownie PTS was announced July 2, and on August 12 Identibit announced it was sharedropping to Brownie PTS.  It is self-evident that Brownie PTS was entirely a way for Dan to get more money for himself, and that he worked together with Identibit to get more for himself through Brownie PTS.




Quote
What do you mean?  Are you saying that people were supposed to stop selling something that they had, that was still being bought on exchanges?  Why would they stop?

Exactly, if people thought they had more value than what they could get from exchanging them for BTS, why would they? I can't force you trade something with me if you don't want it. If people were willing to keep trading it after the drop why would the exchange stop listing it if they could keep making money from it?


AS for the brownie points, that's what a user issued asset is. It cost 5000bts to register and the creator has full control over them. The only thing special about brownie points is that people believe they will have value because they believe in Dan. Nothing is stopping you from spending 5000bts and issuing your own asset.Problem is no one think it's worth anything because you wouldn't bring any value to it.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: BitcoinNational on September 23, 2015, 07:40:31 AM
BitShares itself (not PTS) can and is being used for sharedropps already.


Cool story.  



I'd like to see more sharedrops using Bitshares PTS snapshots, since Stan Larimer promised that every future DAC would be dropped to PTS holders.  

Is that a broken promise from Bitshares, or will they use PTS for drops?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png

broken promises


And in a nut shell this explains why BTS is a nasty smelly fish.

PTS has been dead for a year, a DEAD wallet on cryptsy.
And all the shares promised by PTS are vaporware, or am I missing something?
But last time I checked I still don't have them nor see them traded/listed.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 23, 2015, 07:43:22 AM
And what is, Identibit, anyway?  

According to Stan Larimer, it means that all BitShares users will have to register their Social Security Number?



Quote from: Stan

Now, about KYC/AML. It is true that Identabit requires all accounts to have positive ID and you can't collect your sharedrop without an account.  

Catch 22?

No.  Remember the purpose of a sharedrop is to target people who will be your supporters, not to give away free money.  If a person won't sign up with a verified account even to collect free money, then they are identifying themselves as people that Identabit wouldn't want to sharedrop on anyway.

Put it another way.  The sharedrop is a way to get people motivated to overcome their natural crypto-reluctance to identify themselves, even though they do it every day to collect their paychecks and pay their taxes.  Just because we want some place to keep our finances anonymous does not mean that every place has to be anonomyous.  So, requiring us cryptoheads to register helps break down that barrier, and is thus a key strategy to get cryptoheads used to the concept of having a mix of anonymous and identity-based accounts. Knowing how to use both is a key to the complementary roles of BitShares and Identabit the way folks know the difference between savings and checking acounts today.

Those who are not willing to take that little leap, will never be Identabit supporters anyway and are thus self-judged to be likely dumpers.


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.375.html


Stan also says if you don't want the government to connect your identity with how many BitShares you own, don't claim Identibit.  



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 23, 2015, 02:48:27 PM
DE has arrived to ruin another thread. Meanwhile bts leaves nxt to dust like I predicted :)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 23, 2015, 03:45:29 PM



Well it does say the blocks are synced


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: NASdaq on September 24, 2015, 06:32:23 AM
HELP!!!

I bought some original PTS (like over a year ago) and some angel shares in the IPO. What do I have to do to claim the sharedrops? Assume I was in a coma and know nothing since mid 2014 (which is basically true).


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: testz on September 24, 2015, 09:36:37 AM
HELP!!!

I bought some original PTS (like over a year ago) and some angel shares in the IPO. What do I have to do to claim the sharedrops? Assume I was in a coma and know nothing since mid 2014 (which is basically true).

Import wallet.dat with original PTS and wallet.dat (or private key) from where you donated to AGS into BitShares client and you get your shares at balance.
But I suggest you to wait few weeks for BitShares 2.0 release and import your keys into new 2.0 wallet.
More info and place where you get help for all your BitShares questions: https://bitsharestalk.org
Wiki: http://wiki.bitshares.org


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 24, 2015, 02:29:22 PM

Protoshares which became PTS where sharedropped on.


Protoshares were never sharedropped on.  The name changed to BitShares PTS before the first sharedrop.



Quote
You have to understand, the developers (Dan) did not control PTS, it was a POW coin. After the share drop some ppl decided they wanted to keep it running. How do you stop a decentralize POW coin if people continue to mine it? That's why its confusing because there was no way to shutdown PTS after the drop.


So it's a decentralized coin?  Nobody owns it, nobody controls it, nobody can stop it from running?

And that's what Dan and Stan promised to use for all future drops, knowing that it wouldn't be under their control?

Then how can you say they decided to merge it, decided to end it, or that the coin "changed hands" and is being run by different people? 

If it was decentralized from the start, and they never had control of it in the first place, then they knew that when they promised to distribute all future DACs to PTS holders.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: Bisha on September 24, 2015, 08:22:56 PM

Protoshares which became PTS where sharedropped on.


Protoshares were never sharedropped on.  The name changed to BitShares PTS before the first sharedrop.



Quote
You have to understand, the developers (Dan) did not control PTS, it was a POW coin. After the share drop some ppl decided they wanted to keep it running. How do you stop a decentralize POW coin if people continue to mine it? That's why its confusing because there was no way to shutdown PTS after the drop.


So it's a decentralized coin?  Nobody owns it, nobody controls it, nobody can stop it from running?

And that's what Dan and Stan promised to use for all future drops, knowing that it wouldn't be under their control?

Then how can you say they decided to merge it, decided to end it, or that the coin "changed hands" and is being run by different people? 

If it was decentralized from the start, and they never had control of it in the first place, then they knew that when they promised to distribute all future DACs to PTS holders.

ProtoShares were never sharedropped on? Then why did I get more BTS from Vote, DNS,etc and have NOTES on my wallet?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 24, 2015, 08:30:36 PM

ProtoShares were never sharedropped on?



That's right.  You're an excellent example of the widespread confusion that persists about BitShares PTS and Protoshares.

Protoshares was changed to BitShares PTS, before any sharedrops ever happened.  All sharedrops through November 2014 went to BitShares PTS, as promised;  but after that, the promise was not kept.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/PTS.png


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: StanLarimer on September 24, 2015, 09:08:33 PM
Poor runpaint.  

He has to go back to 18 months (a lifetime in this industry) to make up some controversy. No matter how many times this is explained by all sorts of informed people, he keeps posting the same misleading story.

As Warf the Klingon would say, "He has no honor!"

Last year BitShares PTS and AGS were merged into BitShares where the promises continue to be kept.  

Why exactly is this news now?
(Yes, that's what I think too.)

Nobody else at the bitsharestalk.org (http://bitsharestalk.org) forum is confused about this at all,
but he hopes he can confuse those who are just now starting to pay attention
to our rising market cap and trading volume
and all the buzz that goes with it.

We are all focused on the countdown to BitShares 2.0 (http://bitshares.org) -- now entering its final exciting weeks.

Every post we've ever made on poor runpaint's obsession is available here and at bitsharestalk.org for those who care to do their own forensic analysis.  You might find my epic series on The Origin of BitShares (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14019.msg182299.html#msg182299) helpful - it was originally written for this forum.  This summary has stood the test of time since January.

  Or you could trust people from both sides to cherry pick their own quotes for you.  Perhaps you can read them all in time to make an informed decision before the big launch on October 13.

But poor runpaint is hoping you won't get your own research done before you miss the opportunity.  

So, as a practical matter, you might just ask yourself whether BitShares would have any kind of a following at all, much less be among the Top Five on coinmarketcap, if any of his conclusions were actually true.

Doesn't even pass a cursory sanity check, does it?
:)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: Bisha on September 24, 2015, 09:14:36 PM
So first you say PTS wasn't sharedropped on and then admit I got my shares but I'm part of the confusion? You don't even know how to argue about this. You lost all the credibility just now. This is intentional from your part.

What you're saying it's different. PTS got sharedropped on, however that doesn't happen anymore. Those are 2 different things. Plus, vote, dns, ags and pts all got a stake on the new BTS. So now we have this new thing called BTS, that is shadropped on. Now you're free not to agree with that decision for whatever reasons you may have. But PTS got sharedropped on, a compensation was worked out to migrate everything to BTS, which is now the new shadrop target.

I can understand you might not agree with the merger but that's a different thing. I'm not confused. I knew what was going to happen as an informed holder who cared enough to check out for news. I'm not part of that widespread confusion. Don't include me. You are though, you're someone who seems not to agree with the merger and messing things up now, mixing facts and saying PTS was never sharedropped on when in fact it was. But you will just continue arguing about something that was already explained a thousand times so.. Good luck on your journey.

The only thing I don't like about this thread is, you could be a potentially confused holder with lots of questions. However, everything was clarified with you, this was repeated a thousand times and you're just insisting on this on purpose. It's like beating sense into a wall. It isn't worth keep up this discussion because you will continue, intentionally to spread those baseless arguments of yours.



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 24, 2015, 09:37:37 PM

As Warf the Klingon would say, "He has no honor!"



No honor?  Am I the one who just issued myself 50% of a new asset and arranged to have it used for sharedrops?  Or was that Dan?



Quote
Last year BitShares PTS and AGS were merged into BitShares


Merged in what way?  The way in which you get to sell your PTS but still receive all the sharedrops that were supposed to go to PTS holders?



Quote
Nobody else at the bitsharestalk.org (http://bitsharestalk.org) forum is confused about this at all


Actually there does seem to be confusion.

But Dan has made a new "social contract" in which people who ask questions about the new sharedrop target don't get any.  Maybe that's why there isn't much talk about it?  




Quote
our rising market cap


lol

"It's rising!  It's slightly above the all-time low!"


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/chart.png





Quote
Every post we've ever made on poor runpaint's obsession is available here


I've supplied plenty of your own posts.  What you call my "obsession" is actually my interest in my investment.  

I bought BitShares PTS, but now you have sharedrops to Brownie PTS instead because you own the majority of it.




Quote
You might find my epic series on The Origin of BitShares (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14019.msg182299.html#msg182299) helpful - it was originally written for this forum.  This summary has stood the test of time since January.

  Or you could trust people from both sides to cherry pick their own quotes for you.


We could trust people from both sides...or just you?  Is that seriously the choice you're giving us?




Quote
So, as a practical matter, you might just ask yourself whether BitShares would have any kind of a following at all, much less be among the Top Five on coinmarketcap, if any of his conclusions were actually true.

Doesn't even pass a cursory sanity check, does it?



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/runpaint/Top5Marketcap.png


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 24, 2015, 09:43:35 PM
You lost all the credibility just now.


How does someone get credibility?  By issuing themselves a lot of free money?




Quote
What you're saying it's different. PTS got sharedropped on


Yes, but you were just asking about Protoshares getting drops.  Protoshares never got any drops, Bitshares PTS did.  You're still confused.

Maybe you should read this thread again and see all the varying opinions about the difference between Protoshares and BitShares PTS.  And it's people from Bitsharestalk who have all these different ideas about what happened.  They're confused too.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 24, 2015, 10:02:11 PM

Everyone else here understands the results of the merger




The result is that Stan and Dan were able to sell their PTS while still giving themselves shares that were promised to PTS holders. 

And then they gave themselves Brownie PTS so they could get more shares of Identibit. 

Are those the results you're talking about?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 12:10:00 AM

When they make a contract they honor it and when they renegotiate a contract, they give you more than you were promised. 


They gave more than the original agreement?

And they themselves are shareholders?

So they gave themselves more than what was in the original agreement.

Most of us are into crypto because we don't want to depend on people who control the money to "give us more than we deserve". 


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: StanLarimer on September 25, 2015, 01:14:03 AM
For the record, I have never sold any of my PTS.  Ever.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 25, 2015, 03:19:10 AM
For the record, I have never sold any of my PTS.  Ever.

Is this the same kind of "never" as when you claimed that you "never" put "Safer than a Swiss Bank" on the official Bitshares(TM) website, where you claimed you were the "Head of Operations", and when provided evidence that "Safer than a Swiss Bank" was on your website, you stated that it was a volunteer that put it there?

BitShares.  
Safer than a Swiss Bank.  
(Ask me why!)

My guess is that any PTS Stan and Dan had and then sold was held in a non-personal account.  Thus, he claims he never personally sold any of his PTS because his "personal", non-corporate holdings were/are minuscule.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: favdesu on September 25, 2015, 05:49:46 AM
Poor runpaint.  

He has to go back to 18 months (a lifetime in this industry) to make up some controversy. No matter how many times this is explained by all sorts of informed people, he keeps posting the same misleading story.

As Warf the Klingon would say, "He has no honor!"

Last year BitShares PTS and AGS were merged into BitShares where the promises continue to be kept.  

Why exactly is this news now?
(Yes, that's what I think too.)

Nobody else at the bitsharestalk.org (http://bitsharestalk.org) forum is confused about this at all,
but he hopes he can confuse those who are just now starting to pay attention
to our rising market cap and trading volume
and all the buzz that goes with it.

We are all focused on the countdown to BitShares 2.0 (http://bitshares.org) -- now entering its final exciting weeks.

Every post we've ever made on poor runpaint's obsession is available here and at bitsharestalk.org for those who care to do their own forensic analysis.  You might find my epic series on The Origin of BitShares (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14019.msg182299.html#msg182299) helpful - it was originally written for this forum.  This summary has stood the test of time since January.

  Or you could trust people from both sides to cherry pick their own quotes for you.  Perhaps you can read them all in time to make an informed decision before the big launch on October 13.

But poor runpaint is hoping you won't get your own research done before you miss the opportunity.  

So, as a practical matter, you might just ask yourself whether BitShares would have any kind of a following at all, much less be among the Top Five on coinmarketcap, if any of his conclusions were actually true.

Doesn't even pass a cursory sanity check, does it?
:)

I fully agree, there's not much confusion going on. I wasn't able to follow BTS for almost a year, but that's my problem. As an investor, it's your duty to follow up, and if you don't like what you see: sell.

I thought runpaint was a smart guy, judging from his Banx thread, but I start to think he's just a troll with too much time.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: EvilDave on September 25, 2015, 08:23:12 AM


As Warf the Klingon would say, "He has no honor!"

Last year BitShares PTS and AGS were merged into BitShares where the promises continue to be kept.  

Warf ? Come on, Stan, you just lost a million geeks with that one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worf


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: StanLarimer on September 25, 2015, 12:16:17 PM
I was wrong about my spelling of Worf.

It takes a big man to admit such an extremely unlikely event.

(I was worried that my Warf engines were about to blow at Warf Factor 9 and it just slipped out.)



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 02:47:47 PM
Quote

I thought runpaint was a smart guy, judging from his Banx thread, but I start to think he's just a troll with too much time.

^^ I second that. I offered him a chance to speak on skype or face to face and after a lot of games was refused and just shown pictures of a gun and a CPU miner. So I allow everyone in the Banx thread to make up their own minds about his intentions.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 02:49:51 PM
Quote

I thought runpaint was a smart guy, judging from his Banx thread, but I start to think he's just a troll with too much time.

^^ I second that.


But you're a proven liar.

I offered you a chance to answer honest questions about your "business", and you refused like a true scammer.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 02:56:13 PM
Quote

I thought runpaint was a smart guy, judging from his Banx thread, but I start to think he's just a troll with too much time.

^^ I second that.


But you're a proven liar.

I offered you a chance to answer honest questions about your "business", and you refused like a true scammer.

Proven liar... How sad.. I refused to answer questions from a troll that refuses to speak to me face to face. Have you actually read your first post on the thread about me and my business? You have an agenda. You have an agenda against BTS and me. So go and polish your guns and baby sit your CPU miner. Again, hit me up on skype ID mjlyford if you would like to have a recorded video call. You can distribute it as much as you want.

Unlike you my friend some of us can't sit on forums all day posting and making stuff up, maybe if you dedicated half the time you put into your BCT posting career you could join us in having businesses that people love to troll too.



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 03:21:01 PM

I refused to answer questions from a troll that refuses to speak to me face to face.


Why do you want to speak face-to-face with a troll who doesn't deserve to be answered? 



Quote
Have you actually read your first post on the thread about me and my business?


Have you?  Most honest people, if their actions had led to a public perception of dishonest business practices, would speak openly and attempt to clarify the facts.



Quote
You have an agenda.


My agenda is to bring facts into the open in order to protect people from losing money on dishonest investments.



Quote
You have an agenda against BTS and me.


Well I said dishonest investments, but I'll take your word for it.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 03:26:22 PM
@runpaint.

Quote
Unlike you my friend some of us can't sit on forums all day posting and making stuff up, maybe if you dedicated half the time you put into your BCT posting career you could join us in having businesses that people love to troll too.

See the above ^^. The part you decided not to quote me on...


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 04:05:14 PM

some of us can't sit on forums all day posting and making stuff up



Oh, you don't spend all day on the internet?  Don't you claim to have created 32,000 porn sites?


But yes, you have spent plenty of time on forums making stuff up:


Our shares were developed same as BTC


With CPU miners?


there will never be more than 6 million BANX shares issued.


There are 12 million now. 



our projections for 12 months are that we will pay out 70% ROI of profits invested.



It's been almost 12 months, but you were just making stuff up. 



I am looking to setup a large mining operation here in the UK. i have a pretty interesting situation which means I will have little or no power costs after September (Location has a £600k wind turbine going up that can power up to 120 houses and I have direct access to the power overage). Initially looking to setup GPU miners, internally and offer mining contracts. Then once / if viable get ASIC miners up and running too. I'm looking to speak to people who would be interested in talking to me more about this. I have a vision of getting a 150 Mhash mining farm up and running by year end . (GPU mining)  


150Mhash?  What a "vision"!


I realise this must have been discussed many times before but with my background and previous experience of online business I am seriously looking into what it would take to create a crypto currency that had real potential from the start. But I don't technically know where to start. So how difficult is it? Does anyone have suggestions as to who could help this become a reality.


Posting on a forum, making up a coin?


I am looking to get a top quality dice gambling script for use on a new site I am setting up. I need someone to supply me with one who can help support it.


Where is it?


We are currently developing new adobe air based software to track crypto markets, trends and mining.

This is coming out in June and developers are working on it now.


Where is it?




http://i.imgur.com/2qq4Uer.png



You even make stuff up on multiple forums, and ask for advice on how to make stuff up. 


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 04:11:03 PM
Also, in case anyone actually wants to know about Banx -

It's still "in the ICO phase" after 12 months.  That means they don't allow any selling below the ICO price on their exchange.  And their exchange is the only exchange that has Banx.

And they've gradually raised the ICO price from under $1.00 at launch to the current $1.79 (.002BTC to .0079BTC).

And they doubled the number of shares from 6 million to 12 million.  

And they have multiple excuses for why the volume on CoinMarketCap is wrong, or fake, or mistaken. 


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 04:38:07 PM
@runpaint,

Yeah I spend all my day and nights on the internet building my businesses. Yes I did create 32,000 porn sites. (not myself I add)

Yes there are 12 million now. and everyone got doubled up.

Re - Itís been 12 months. yeah you are right, but when you are doing big things things take longer than you would hope sometime.

You were not even probably mining in May 2013, do you remember when 150 Mhash was a lot of mining power for scrypt? I do.

Yeah I was looking to create a coin. You?

The software didnít happen. So what of it?

The post you keep referring to on the Warrior Forum was posted half way through my prison sentence on my very firs time out of open prison. This was the time i was deciding how honest to be about my past. Being honest may open you up to criticism, but doing it means no one can troll you and unearth stuff people didnít know about you online. So yeah I was completely honest.

Re read my Warrior Post. You seem to have a tunnel vision of what words you want to read.

Seriously, you are becoming a joke now.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 04:46:02 PM
Also, in case anyone actually wants to know about Banx -

It's still "in the ICO phase" after 12 months.  That means they don't allow any selling below the ICO price on their exchange.  And their exchange is the only exchange that has Banx.

And they've gradually raised the ICO price from under $1.00 at launch to the current $1.79 (.002BTC to .0079BTC).

And they doubled the number of shares from 6 million to 12 million.  

And they have multiple excuses for why the volume on CoinMarketCap is wrong, or fake, or mistaken. 

Yes it is still in private investor ICO stage. What of it? why because we / I don't sell any banx shares to anyone other than private investors. I am sure you are aware of the reasons why we cant sell to the public legally. The exchange has Banx for sales from people who want to sell them (not us) Yes banx.io is the only exchange, but as you have already been informed the windows wallet is available for any exchange to use.

We are moving to BTC 2.0 and when we move our Banx to BTC blockchain there will be many other places to trade Banx and many pairs. Not just banx.io

Yes we have raised our price per Banx to ensure we raise the amount of money needed to realise our full business potential. You keep hearing this word business.. You know what business is right?

Yes we did double the amount from6 to 12 mill. And we explained why we were doing that. And every holder of Banx had their holding doubled. So not scammed anyone there have we?

CMC is very happy with how Banx is and fully aware of us moving to BTC2.0 and the changes that will be happening.

So as what point do you stop making an ass of yourself and give up?

Would that be the time you stop being someone taking pictures of your guns and miners to prove who you are and actually want a non waste of time game playing forum discussion? No didn't think so. Unlike me you don't like people to know who you really are or what your REAL agenda is do you.

So again, you carry on refusing to speak to me and interview me in a way that doesn't waste all my time and I will continue to grow my vision and businesses.

I'm super excited to move to BTC2.0, why? Cause these guys are the best at what they do. And guess what? Their system will enable me to shut people like you up and grow even better.



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 04:48:11 PM
@runpaint

BTW was posting a picture of your gun in the troll thread about me a threat? I sure hope not.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 05:03:45 PM

The software didnít happen. So what of it?



So you wasted time posting online and making stuff up.  I only mentioned it because you did first.




@runpaint

BTW was posting a picture of your gun in the troll thread about me a threat? I sure hope not.



You mean after you told everyone my name was Stuart, and I'm in Surrey, and you said you were excited to meet me soon, and you PMed me "my address" that you're going to show up at Tuesday?

Even though you're an idiot, and you were wrong about my name and location, you were trying to intimidate me in your own pathetic way.  It was about as successful as your many online money-making schemes (which have all failed, including Banx).

But you said you're a miner, so I posted one of my mining rigs.  As I suspected, you don't even know what a video card looks like. 

Someone must have told you that CPU miners are old news, so you've repeatedly tried to mock me about my "CPU miner".  What's that PCI connector from the power supply going to?  The thing plugged into the video card slot?

Go ahead and ask somebody, it's okay.  You've already shown your ignorance and proven to everyone that you've never seen the inside of a PC.

The picture was of my computer and monitor showing my command prompts mining.  The fact that there are 2 shotguns visible in the picture is beside the point, although you were too stupid to notice both of them. 

The only people who would see my self-defense as a threat are people who want to come here and harm me.  So why do you interpret it as a threat?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 06:02:58 PM

The software didnít happen. So what of it?



So you wasted time posting online and making stuff up.  I only mentioned it because you did first.




@runpaint

BTW was posting a picture of your gun in the troll thread about me a threat? I sure hope not.



You mean after you told everyone my name was Stuart, and I'm in Surrey, and you said you were excited to meet me soon, and you PMed me "my address" that you're going to show up at Tuesday?

Even though you're an idiot, and you were wrong about my name and location, you were trying to intimidate me in your own pathetic way.  It was about as successful as your many online money-making schemes (which have all failed, including Banx).

But you said you're a miner, so I posted one of my mining rigs.  As I suspected, you don't even know what a video card looks like. 

Someone must have told you that CPU miners are old news, so you've repeatedly tried to mock me about my "CPU miner".  What's that PCI connector from the power supply going to?  The thing plugged into the video card slot?

Go ahead and ask somebody, it's okay.  You've already shown your ignorance and proven to everyone that you've never seen the inside of a PC.

The picture was of my computer and monitor showing my command prompts mining.  The fact that there are 2 shotguns visible in the picture is beside the point, although you were too stupid to notice both of them. 

The only people who would see my self-defense as a threat are people who want to come here and harm me.  So why do you interpret it as a threat?


Ok enough's enough you said you played games after me offering to talk to you direct. Im an entrepreneur I think of things and get them done, some times those things are not worth doing (like the software idea)

I have more GPU's sitting idle in our offices than I care to think about :) You joined BCT less than a year ago, so don't tell me what I was and wasn't doing over two years ago.

No intimidation here. offering to meet some one like and ADULT and discuss their concerns isn't intimidation, If you were intimidated by me offering to speak to you direct than you have more issues than I realised.


So are we going to leave it there then? You don't like me or what i am doing, you don't like BTS and the Larimers. Are we agreed on that or are you going to keep up this childish BS?

Not accepting my skype offer to interview me makes you look foolish considering the amount of time you have put into me in the last few days. Perhaps it makes people ask what the REAL agenda is.

I'm breaking my own rules by spending too much time with you on this. You could have simply accepted my skype invitation to speak to me. Instead you keep on being a troll.

So what's your next pile of quotes you are going to come back with?

Maybe your time should be spent better on something?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 06:06:41 PM
If you don't like what I'm doing in my own topics, then go somewhere else.

For everyone else who's on board with the positive things we're doing, they're welcome to stay.

But you're a small-time contributor here.  You only have a few posts, you're making out like you're a big guy in this community but really you're just a nobody.

So do you want to act like a big boy and just go away?  Or do you insist on hanging around where you're not wanted?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 06:10:53 PM

Oh, you don't spend all day on the internet?  Don't you claim to have created 32,000 porn sites

yep, and computer robots running them all while he chills on his Lottery Island. He realizes that he's staking claims in the modern day gold rush. Those 49ers bought up whole US states just because they were born at the right time in history to capitalize in a free market capitalist community whose paper promises line your pockets no matter what country you live in. Be glad you don't live in Thailand. Right now legacy businesses are only scratching the surface of this gold mine, and Mark's pulling right up beside you and your plastic beach shovel with an army of driverless dump trucks powered by Google (Toast) full of dynamite.

If he is attempting a scam on us, then Satoshi's blockchain will reveal it. Bitcoin2.O businesses are transparent, because if they are not, then nobody will do business with them (Citicoin). Mark just wants to be the first that's all. First mover in several sectors. Ambitious? Yes, maybe even greedy.  Competitors are sure to follow him, but right now, he is free to stake his claims. And guess what? This land is free for you to set up shop right next to him if you think you can do it better. So if you have a better business plan then you are free to drill right along side him and drink his milkshake.


get back to work mark. u work 4 me now remember

^^ what he said.

I have said online before and will say it again. This crypto industry reminds me of the porn business in the late 90's full of young kids thinking they can do real business. Why because the barrier of entry is so low, anyone can setup a site or setup their own coin.  The reason I manage to cut a small pie of the online porn pie for myself back then was that I systemised and scaled the business when it worked. Something once our marketing funnel brining in new users to crypto I intend to do again with Banx.

The first of six is ready to go next week here >> http://digitalmoneyrevolution.com/info-banks (http://digitalmoneyrevolution.com/info-banks)

That's where we are going to be different in this biz, thats why we have never gone after marketing ourselves to the existing crypto BCT community. We don't fit the current status quo of 'this coin is better than this coin' mentality, We are about creating a range of businesses than new users can use. Plain and simple. And selling banx shares is the fuel to make that happen. Not a hard concept but one that some people don't like or get or want to get.

It's been a long road that hasn't always gone to plan over the last 12 months. But with me you have someone that will never give up until they get where they want to be. And trolls like @runpaint just make me work even harder ;)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 06:12:54 PM
If you don't like what I'm doing in my own topics, then go somewhere else.

For everyone else who's on board with the positive things we're doing, they're welcome to stay.

But you're a small-time contributor here.  You only have a few posts, you're making out like you're a big guy in this community but really you're just a nobody.

So do you want to act like a big boy and just go away?  Or do you insist on hanging around where you're not wanted?

I know I am a small time contributor here and for very good reason as proven in the last week. I have no interest in being a someone in this community. Looking through your last few weeks of posting on here I can't see many positive things you are doing?

I'll go away. Will you do the same and stop this nonsense you have created for yourself about me and mine?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 25, 2015, 06:43:49 PM

http://i.imgur.com/2qq4Uer.png



You even make stuff up on multiple forums, and ask for advice on how to make stuff up. 

Lol


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 06:55:36 PM
Quote

You even make stuff up on multiple forums, and ask for advice on how to make stuff up. 
Quote
Lol

Have you seen any of my talks? you won't find a more open and honest guy who talks about every element of his life warts and all. Feel free to watch them here:  http://lyfordlive.com/mark-live/ (http://lyfordlive.com/mark-live/). I did a live periscope about hater last night too, check out my twitter feed if you want to watch that...


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 07:24:23 PM

I'll go away. Will you do the same and stop this nonsense you have created for yourself about me and mine?



If I go away, will you stop selling BANX, dissolve all your businesses (the few remaining ones you haven't already dissolved), give all investors a full refund, get a real job, and never use the internet again?

Oh...you can't give investors a full refund, can you?  You've already spent their money and you have very little to show for it.  

So you'll continue your "ICO" that has no fixed price and no end in sight, and I'll continue telling the truth about it.  That's all I've done, and it's more than you've done.

And don't say that the price is fixed in dollars and only changes with the Bitcoin exchange rate.  That's another lie you've told, since BANX is now listed at $1.79, which is nearly double the original ICO price in dollars.  In Bitcoin, it's about quadruple the price.  Besides, your "business prospectus" said BANX would be a "pure cryptocurrency based asset" that would only be available in exchange for Bitcoin.  


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: timmyd on September 25, 2015, 07:26:30 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/rly0x.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/rly0x)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 07:32:19 PM

Did runpaint just go full retard?



I didn't buy BANX, if that's what you're asking


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 07:34:45 PM
@runpaint - You are not going anywhere I can see that. So I will leave you to your online games and trolling. Have a good weekend and make sure you polish your gun. Seriously you really CANNOT read. You have selective reading abilities.

I will continue to grow the vision and business of Banx and not feed your obsession with me while you still  keep attacking people who you don't want to talk to direct.

All my very best

Mark


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 25, 2015, 07:35:19 PM
truth has come out.. runpaint is another bts hater :P started out as being confused and now continues to FUD.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: timmyd on September 25, 2015, 07:35:51 PM

Did runpaint just go full retard?



I didn't buy BANX, if that's what you're asking

No Dude im not asking that. I think your problem is you dont fully read and understand yhe things in front of you. You basically trying to piece together something that only really exists in your brain. And you have also managed to drag a few others along with you. Shame really.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 25, 2015, 07:40:02 PM

Did runpaint just go full retard?



I didn't buy BANX, if that's what you're asking

No Dude im not asking that. I think your problem is you dont fully read and understand yhe things in front of you. You basically trying to piece together something that only really exists in your brain. And you have also managed to drag a few others along with you. Shame really.

Runpaint and decentralizedeconomics are examples of whats wrong with this world. Trying to drag on others successes as well as happy when others fail.. these are type the people who will be obsoleted in the coming knowledge age.

News flash, most people here are smarter than you (what does that tell you?) and you don't need to act robin hood to try to "save" others money for them. They have done their due diligence as you have obviously not done yours. Why dont you stick to what you are actually good at instead of trying to reach over your head?

As for decentralizedeconomics he should put his money where his mouth is, trying to prevent others from losing their coins or preserving their value while his beloved NXT falls flat out of the top 10 for good. Perhaps he should take his own advice instead of trying to be "smart" but looking "stupid"


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 07:53:06 PM

I will continue to grow the vision and business of Banx and not feed your obsession with me while you still  keep attacking people who you don't want to talk to direct.



That's right, I don't want to talk to people who I think are essentially liars and thieves. 

But notice that you continue to talk to me without saying anything.

You're so full of yourself that you assume I would want to talk to you.  I started the other topic to talk to the people you're deceiving, not you.  The people you're deceiving include everyone who looks at CoinMarketCap.com.

The facts speak for themselves, but you've helped greatly by posting so many times without denying or explaining anything I've said.  You've had many opportunities to publicly defend yourself, but you can't do it.

But this is actually a different topic, about BitShares PTS.  I honestly didn't know how dishonest BitShares was when I started the topic.  It was originally titled "I'd like to see more sharedrops using BitShares PTS".  But when so many different explanations were given here, none of which made much sense, I changed the title of the topic.

And, since I was already on a roll exposing your lies and deceptions in the other topic, I decided to give BitShares the same treatment.  The fact that you and BitShares are now in bed together, and that I happened to expose both of your business practices separately, is either a coincidence or some divine justice that God in his infinite wisdom has allowed me to participate in.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 25, 2015, 07:59:48 PM

Have a good weekend and make sure you polish your gun.



Is that supposed to be some kind of insult?

From you, a man who was convicted of possessing of an illegal weapon in connection with the trafficking of controlled substances?

How is that funny?  Should I tell you to go polish your pepper spray and your bong? 

Or are you threatening me, saying that I should prepare my gun this weekend because you're sending someone to assault me soon?  I don't think a convicted drug dealer should be throwing around that kind of comment. 


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: timmyd on September 25, 2015, 08:00:04 PM
I so should have saved the runpaint went full retard meme for the above post. Face palm


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: timmyd on September 25, 2015, 08:01:45 PM
If men with white jackets turn up its for your own benefit


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: tat123 on September 25, 2015, 08:04:07 PM

Did runpaint just go full retard?



I didn't buy BANX, if that's what you're asking

No Dude im not asking that. I think your problem is you dont fully read and understand yhe things in front of you. You basically trying to piece together something that only really exists in your brain. And you have also managed to drag a few others along with you. Shame really.

Runpaint and decentralizedeconomics are examples of whats wrong with this world. Trying to drag on others successes as well as happy when others fail.. these are type the people who will be obsoleted in the coming knowledge age.

News flash, most people here are smarter than you (what does that tell you?) and you don't need to act robin hood to try to "save" others money for them. They have done their due diligence as you have obviously not done yours. Why dont you stick to what you are actually good at instead of trying to reach over your head?

As for decentralizedeconomics he should put his money where his mouth is, trying to prevent others from losing their coins or preserving their value while his beloved NXT falls flat out of the top 10 for good. Perhaps he should take his own advice instead of trying to be "smart" but looking "stupid"


I thought DE was a delegate? He does so much advertising for you guys, that I thought for sure he was getting some sort of compensation. Imagine if he focused his energy on NXT like the way he has with BTS? They would be in the top 5 for sure! Maybe that's why BTS is in the top 5? DE... I still have some Quarks, could you give them the same treatment? Need to unload that bag of feces. Thanks dude. ;D


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 25, 2015, 08:22:35 PM

Did runpaint just go full retard?



I didn't buy BANX, if that's what you're asking

No Dude im not asking that. I think your problem is you dont fully read and understand yhe things in front of you. You basically trying to piece together something that only really exists in your brain. And you have also managed to drag a few others along with you. Shame really.

Runpaint and decentralizedeconomics are examples of whats wrong with this world. Trying to drag on others successes as well as happy when others fail.. these are type the people who will be obsoleted in the coming knowledge age.

News flash, most people here are smarter than you (what does that tell you?) and you don't need to act robin hood to try to "save" others money for them. They have done their due diligence as you have obviously not done yours. Why dont you stick to what you are actually good at instead of trying to reach over your head?

As for decentralizedeconomics he should put his money where his mouth is, trying to prevent others from losing their coins or preserving their value while his beloved NXT falls flat out of the top 10 for good. Perhaps he should take his own advice instead of trying to be "smart" but looking "stupid"


I thought DE was a delegate? He does so much advertising for you guys, that I thought for sure he was getting some sort of compensation. Imagine if he focused his energy on NXT like the way he has with BTS? They would be in the top 5 for sure! Maybe that's why BTS is in the top 5? DE... I still have some Quarks, could you give them the same treatment? Need to unload that bag of feces. Thanks dude. ;D
+5


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 25, 2015, 09:01:17 PM
Quote
Runpaint and decentralizedeconomics are examples of whats wrong with this world. Trying to drag on others successes as well as happy when others fail.. these are type the people who will be obsoleted in the coming knowledge age.

News flash, most people here are smarter than you (what does that tell you?) and you don't need to act robin hood to try to "save" others money for them. They have done their due diligence as you have obviously not done yours. Why dont you stick to what you are actually good at instead of trying to reach over your head?

As for decentralizedeconomics he should put his money where his mouth is, trying to prevent others from losing their coins or preserving their value while his beloved NXT falls flat out of the top 10 for good. Perhaps he should take his own advice instead of trying to be "smart" but looking "stupid"

runpaint and DE are examples of what is wrong with the crypto community I agree.

I don't profess to be smarter than anyone I just work damn hard and have the ability to find the right people to work with to make things happen.

Many thanks for your refreshing post. :)

(edited: to reflect the quote)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 26, 2015, 02:40:12 AM

Runpaint and decentralizedeconomics are examples of whats wrong with this world. Trying to drag on others successes as well as happy when others fail.. these are type the people who will be obsoleted in the coming knowledge age.

News flash, most people here are smarter than you (what does that tell you?) and you don't need to act robin hood to try to "save" others money for them. They have done their due diligence as you have obviously not done yours. Why dont you stick to what you are actually good at instead of trying to reach over your head?

As for decentralizedeconomics he should put his money where his mouth is, trying to prevent others from losing their coins or preserving their value while his beloved NXT falls flat out of the top 10 for good. Perhaps he should take his own advice instead of trying to be "smart" but looking "stupid"

runpaint and DE are examples of what is wrong with the crypto community I agree.

I don't profess to be smarter than anyone I just work damn hard and have the ability to find the right people to work with to make things happen.

Many thanks for your refreshing post. :)

Mark, you're a filthy piece of white trash.  You're a liar and degenerate who spreads filth and takes advantage of women.  There's a special place for garbage like you.

I got some news for you.  I'm smarter than you and better than you.  I've always been smarter than you and better than you and I'll always be smarter than you and better than you.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 26, 2015, 03:42:31 AM
I don't profess to be smarter than anyone

Well, I guess it's a little hard to claim that one when the only way you can figure out how to make money is by smut peddling, drug dealing, pigeon racing and running centralized scams on the mentally retarded.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: tat123 on September 26, 2015, 03:53:45 AM

Runpaint and decentralizedeconomics are examples of whats wrong with this world. Trying to drag on others successes as well as happy when others fail.. these are type the people who will be obsoleted in the coming knowledge age.

News flash, most people here are smarter than you (what does that tell you?) and you don't need to act robin hood to try to "save" others money for them. They have done their due diligence as you have obviously not done yours. Why dont you stick to what you are actually good at instead of trying to reach over your head?

As for decentralizedeconomics he should put his money where his mouth is, trying to prevent others from losing their coins or preserving their value while his beloved NXT falls flat out of the top 10 for good. Perhaps he should take his own advice instead of trying to be "smart" but looking "stupid"

runpaint and DE are examples of what is wrong with the crypto community I agree.

I don't profess to be smarter than anyone I just work damn hard and have the ability to find the right people to work with to make things happen.

Many thanks for your refreshing post. :)

Mark, you're a filthy piece of white trash.  You're a liar and degenerate who spreads filth and takes advantage of women.  There's a special place for garbage like you.

I got some news for you.  I'm smarter than you and better than you.  I've always been smarter than you and better than you and I'll always be smarter than you and better than you.


At 1:00 DE you are Steve, and Stan/Mark are Bill...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX8Y0X2cauw&list=PLC_FHMTia4OizE6qa_L2JWd2Ltk8AXg7j&index=31

It's kind of true. NXT is an awesome user experience, but...


Edit: Apple did make a great comeback though... Go NXT!



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 26, 2015, 07:10:28 AM
Steve has passed though so go Bill, msft going open src route too good on them


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 26, 2015, 09:15:09 AM

Have a good weekend and make sure you polish your gun.



Is that supposed to be some kind of insult?

From you, a man who was convicted of possessing of an illegal weapon in connection with the trafficking of controlled substances?

How is that funny?  Should I tell you to go polish your pepper spray and your bong?  

Or are you threatening me, saying that I should prepare my gun this weekend because you're sending someone to assault me soon?  I don't think a convicted drug dealer should be throwing around that kind of comment.  

I was convicted of a having class 5 firearm in the UK. Do you know what a class 5 fire arm is? A pepper spray! Which was in a box never used. Which I purchased many years before from the USA! (The judge didn't like me either) I see you edited the part of the pepper spray before I had the time to reply. Your first post made it sound much more sinister. Maybe you are actually reading my book now....

And if you have read my book you will know I was convicted of grow 220 plants. No trafficking no selling. So I was convicted of doing something that is legal now in MANY US states.... Ironic ehh..

Me threatened? All I have done is offer to have a face to face conversation with you to resolve whatever issues you have with me. I'm a lover not a fighter. You however are the one who put a picture in your troll thread about me with YOUR GUN IN IT...


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 26, 2015, 09:18:25 AM

Runpaint and decentralizedeconomics are examples of whats wrong with this world. Trying to drag on others successes as well as happy when others fail.. these are type the people who will be obsoleted in the coming knowledge age.

News flash, most people here are smarter than you (what does that tell you?) and you don't need to act robin hood to try to "save" others money for them. They have done their due diligence as you have obviously not done yours. Why dont you stick to what you are actually good at instead of trying to reach over your head?

As for decentralizedeconomics he should put his money where his mouth is, trying to prevent others from losing their coins or preserving their value while his beloved NXT falls flat out of the top 10 for good. Perhaps he should take his own advice instead of trying to be "smart" but looking "stupid"

runpaint and DE are examples of what is wrong with the crypto community I agree.

I don't profess to be smarter than anyone I just work damn hard and have the ability to find the right people to work with to make things happen.

Many thanks for your refreshing post. :)

Mark, you're a filthy piece of white trash.  You're a liar and degenerate who spreads filth and takes advantage of women.  There's a special place for garbage like you.

I got some news for you.  I'm smarter than you and better than you.  I've always been smarter than you and better than you and I'll always be smarter than you and better than you.


Ever one has their own right to their own opinion. I assume you have never watched a single minute of pornography in your life. I have no moral issue with legal pornography (All my content was completely legal and purchased from the USA) and I personally have no moral issue with cannabis. As many states in the USA don't have an issue with it now.

I'm sure you are smarter than me, better than me? Again, its subjective.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 26, 2015, 09:21:07 AM
I don't profess to be smarter than anyone

Well, I guess it's a little hard to claim that one when the only way you can figure out how to make money is by smut peddling, drug dealing, pigeon racing and running centralized scams on the mentally retarded.

I run 4 companies, one of which is Banx. I never dealt drugs. FYI Racing Pigeon is a multi million dollar industry worldwide ;)

Again, have your own opinion on what I am doing. I am looking forward to Banx becoming part of BTC 2.0. You read that right?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 26, 2015, 09:26:10 AM

Have a good weekend and make sure you polish your gun.



Is that supposed to be some kind of insult?

From you, a man who was convicted of possessing of an illegal weapon in connection with the trafficking of controlled substances?

How is that funny?  Should I tell you to go polish your pepper spray and your bong? 

Or are you threatening me, saying that I should prepare my gun this weekend because you're sending someone to assault me soon?  I don't think a convicted drug dealer should be throwing around that kind of comment. 


I see you edited the part of the pepper spray before I had the time to reply.



I don't know what you're talking about, but you've had 14 hours to reply





(The judge didn't like me either)



Did you meet anyone in prison who thought they deserved to be there?  Or was everyone there just because of bad luck, unfair laws, and the judge didn't like them?

My point is that some people realize that they are responsible for their own actions, while others make excuses and continue to engage in illegal business practices.



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 26, 2015, 09:55:23 AM

Have a good weekend and make sure you polish your gun.



Is that supposed to be some kind of insult?

From you, a man who was convicted of possessing of an illegal weapon in connection with the trafficking of controlled substances?

How is that funny?  Should I tell you to go polish your pepper spray and your bong? 

Or are you threatening me, saying that I should prepare my gun this weekend because you're sending someone to assault me soon?  I don't think a convicted drug dealer should be throwing around that kind of comment. 


I see you edited the part of the pepper spray before I had the time to reply.



I don't know what you're talking about, but you've had 14 hours to reply





(The judge didn't like me either)



Did you meet anyone in prison who thought they deserved to be there?  Or was everyone there just because of bad luck, unfair laws, and the judge didn't like them?

My point is that some people realize that they are responsible for their own actions, while others make excuses and continue to engage in illegal business practices.



Like I say I have better things to do that be monitoring a forum 24/7 (unlike you it seems) and we have things called time zones you know where people actually sleep and spend time with their family, again alien to you I know. You know you edited the initial post to talk about pepper spray... Don't you? ;)

Yeah I met many people in prison who deserved to be there. Horrible people. I am responsible for my own actions, I have never said anything other than that. But growing plants is a little different to may of the crimes you would like to portray I was responsible for (like a firearm, which you posted a picture of, but actually was a pepper spray) ;)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: timmyd on September 26, 2015, 10:02:45 AM
@ runpaint ita about your boyfriend DE

Wow De is one fcked up guy. Rascist scum bag. Wow if you sed half that shit to someones face they would put you on the ground you foul mouthed twat. I see you and runpaint are joined at the hip. Did you first meet on the internet? You just created a new low. No fcker will take any of you seriously lmfao.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 26, 2015, 10:36:27 AM

I see you edited the part of the pepper spray before I had the time to reply.


I don't know what you're talking about, but you've had 14 hours to reply



Like I say I have better things to do that be monitoring a forum 24/7 (unlike you it seems)


Yes, we've seen some videos of you going on vacation and spending the investors' money instead of keeping your promises or doing any work.



Quote
and we have things called time zones you know where people actually sleep and spend time with their family, again alien to you I know. You know you edited the initial post to talk about pepper spray... Don't you? ;)


Are you saying that 14 hours pass more quickly in your time zone?  Either way, I can't help your paranoid delusions about pepper spray posts.

If you didn't have time to see it, what makes you think it was there?  You say you still smoke marijuana even after going to prison for 2 years because of it, and maybe that's why you're so paranoid and experience the passing of time differently from the rest of us.




Quote
Yeah I met many people in prison who deserved to be there.  Horrible people.


I didn't ask if they deserved to be there, I asked if they thought they deserved to be there.  You don't think you deserved to be there, but neither did any of the other horrible people.



Quote
But growing plants is a little different to may of the crimes you would like to portray I was responsible for


Yes, we get it;  your crime wasn't even bad, you didn't deserve to go to prison, it's legal in other places, etc.  

We get it.  You went to prison for trying to make money in illegal ways, and you still see nothing wrong with making money in illegal ways.
 



Quote
(like a firearm, which you posted a picture of, but actually was a pepper spray) ;)


Are you going to talk about pepper spray constantly, instead of the serious questions about whether or not you're cheating people out of millions of dollars?


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: timmyd on September 26, 2015, 10:43:39 AM
@ runapint and DE LIBTARD

Keep up the advertising guys banx should pay you for this. Who would have thought your trollish thread would actually keep banx in the spot light for this long. Always turn a negative into a positve thanks guys.

Anyone checked out www.lottoshares.com yet? Real world lotto using blockchain. Its a fantastic real world use of blockchain tech.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 26, 2015, 05:06:57 PM
@runpaint - I'm ignoring you from now on. You simply won't change your mind on anything I say, you clearly pick and choose what you respond and quote back to so thats it. You are not waisting my time any further.



Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: sidhujag on September 26, 2015, 05:56:22 PM
@runpaint - I'm ignoring you from now on. You simply won't change your mind on anything I say, you clearly pick and choose what you respond and quote back to so thats it. You are not waisting my time any further.


Typical troll behavior.. Its good to ignore them because they dont get it.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: MarkLyford on September 26, 2015, 06:01:58 PM
@runpaint - I'm ignoring you from now on. You simply won't change your mind on anything I say, you clearly pick and choose what you respond and quote back to so thats it. You are not waisting my time any further.


Typical troll behavior.. Its good to ignore them because they dont get it.

Agreed ^^ :)


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 26, 2015, 06:46:31 PM
@runpaint - I'm ignoring you from now on. You simply won't change your mind on anything I say, you clearly pick and choose what you respond and quote back to so thats it. You are not waisting my time any further.





Sod off snotty, this thread is about BitShares PTS.  Don't try to make everything about yourself and your unregistered security which you sell publicly.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: runpaint on September 26, 2015, 06:50:04 PM
@runpaint - I'm ignoring you from now on.

Typical troll behavior..


Yes, it is.  He comes here to my topic to tell me he's going to ignore me, after doing his best to derail the conversation so nobody can talk about things he doesn't want us to talk about.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 27, 2015, 02:46:17 AM
Mark, you're a filthy piece of white trash.  You're a liar and degenerate who spreads filth and takes advantage of women.  There's a special place for garbage like you.

I got some news for you.  I'm smarter than you and better than you.  I've always been smarter than you and better than you and I'll always be smarter than you and better than you.


Ever one has their own right to their own opinion. I assume you have never watched a single minute of pornography in your life. I have no moral issue with legal pornography (All my content was completely legal and purchased from the USA) and I personally have no moral issue with cannabis. As many states in the USA don't have an issue with it now.

I'm sure you are smarter than me, better than me? Again, its subjective.

Not everyone believes in the current legislation passed into law by the drug cartels and profiteers.  There's nothing subjective about the fact that I am better than you.  I've never pimped women out on the internet.  Nor have I ever engaged in growing drugs or any type of gambling activities.  Your actions show that you are clearly subhuman.

I don't profess to be smarter than anyone

Well, I guess it's a little hard to claim that one when the only way you can figure out how to make money is by smut peddling, drug dealing, pigeon racing and running centralized scams on the mentally retarded.

I run 4 companies, one of which is Banx. I never dealt drugs. FYI Racing Pigeon is a multi million dollar industry worldwide ;)

Again, have your own opinion on what I am doing. I am looking forward to Banx becoming part of BTC 2.0. You read that right?

The drug cartels and organized crime syndicates are multi-billion dollar industries, but that doesn't mean that it's a good idea to get involved in it.

Wow De is one fcked up guy. Rascist scum bag. Wow if you sed half that shit to someones face they would put you on the ground you foul mouthed twat. I see you and runpaint are joined at the hip. Did you first meet on the internet? You just created a new low. No fcker will take any of you seriously lmfao.

Well, you certainly have quite a mouth on you.  How is what I said "racist"?  I'm sure there's black, brown, yellow and red trash too.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: puppies on September 27, 2015, 03:00:28 AM
you are clearly subhuman.

The guy that is always calling others fascist and communist says this.  The irony.


Title: Re: There is still widespread confusion about BitShares PTS and Protoshares
Post by: DecentralizeEconomics on September 27, 2015, 04:14:05 AM
you are clearly subhuman.

The guy that is always calling others fascist and communist says this.  The irony.

The corporate fascists and communists are all subhuman too.