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Title: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: herzmeister on October 16, 2012, 03:25:51 PM http://www.nordichardware.com/news/71-graphics/46718-eu-cripples-future-graphics-cards-exclusive-.html
Quote EU cripples future graphics cards http://www.nordichardware.com/images/labswedish/nyhetsartiklar/Nyhetsbilder_Generic/fullimages/Europakommissionen.jpg NordicHardware has seen exclusive information about a new energy law that will apply within the EU. The law requires that both discrete and integrated graphics cards live up to certain energy standards. AMD is worried that this will affect next generation graphics cards and have them barred from sales in the EU. There are standardizations that make sure pre-built computers, but also discrete components, achieve a certain level of energy efficiency. Exactly how much depends on a row of criteria. These standards also include simple things, such as that after a certain amount of time the computer will enter sleep mode. The idea behind this is to have as energy efficient computers as possible to reduce the overall consumption of energy. The specification for the so called Eco design Lot 3 with the EC can be found here (http://extra.ivf.se/ecocomputer/downloads/Eup%20Lot%203%20Final%20Report%20070913%20published.pdf), where there are hundreds of pages to read for those with lots of time to spare. [...] There are currently seven specifications for graphics cards - G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, G6 and G7. Graphics cards of the G7 classification have a bandwidth of 128 GB/s (GigaByte per Second) and more, without an upper limit today. The category depends on the performance - in this case measured in memory bandwidth. These GPU categories are also paired with a certain level of energy efficiency. If a graphics card doesn't live up to the standard set by the EC it can be removed from all markets within the EU. The rules will now be constricted, which threatens next generation graphics cards. The commission wants to stop dedicated graphics cards of group G7 from going above 320 GB/s - that is in theory a memory bus at 384-bit connected to memory operating at 6667 MHz or 512-bit with 5001 MHz. This is definitely within reach for the next generation graphics cards. Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition currently has a bandwidth of 288 GB/s with a 384-bit memory bus and 6000 MHz memory. For notebooks the limit will be only 225 GB/s. Besides that the energy efficiency requirements will be tighter - in this case the energy consumption of the card in relation to its memory bandwidth. Performance delivered in games or general calculations are irrelevant. according to Lot 3. Exactly what the "performance" and energy consumption quote looks like we don't know at the time of writing, but it will also affect cards in the entry level segment and not just performance and enthusiast cards. The quote is strict enough to worry AMD. Future generations are in danger According to data NordicHardware has seen from a high level employee at AMD, current graphics cards are unable to meet with these requirements. This includes "GPUs like Cape Verde and Tahiti", that is used in the HD 7700 and HD 7900 series, and can't meet with the new guidelines, the same goes for the older "Caicos" that is used in the HD 6500/6600 and HD 7500/7600 series. Also "Oland" is mentioned, which is a future performance circuit from AMD, that according to rumors will be used in the future HD 8800 series. What worries AMD the most is how this will affect future graphics cards since the changes in Lot 3 will go into effect soon. The changes will of course affect Nvidia as much as it will AMD. http://www.nordichardware.com/images/labswedish/nyhetsartiklar/Grafik/AMD_Radeon_HD8970/largethumbnails/tenerife2.jpg The commission guidelines could be too strict for next generation graphics cards Earlier today there were talk about the new restrictions going into effect in early 2013, but now it looks like it will be 2014. This will put nearly unrealistic demands on both AMD and Nvidia. Besides the fact the standardization is not very logical since memory bandwidth does not translate into performance that easily we see it as a great obstacle for future graphics cards, but the revision of "Lot 3" is done and the wheels are set in motion. According to a report published in August this year the current roadmaps [from AMD and Nvidia] does not support the new requirements up until 30 months into the future. The changes in Lot 3 will therefore be introduced in steps. The first will be in 2013 or 2014 as mentioned above, and thereafter new restrictions will apply in 2015. OEM companies like Dell and HP are well aware of this and worried about how this will affect their operations. The changes should also affect retail graphics cards and home builders. Graphics card energy consumption has been rising steadily over the last couple of years. Last generation the limit for the PCI Express standard was broken when graphics cards sporting two GPUs consumed well over 300 watt, both from AMD and Nvidia. Both us and our well informed readers think that the way the EC is applying its restrictions is wrong, especially how it has decided to estimate performance. AMD is planning on making an official statement and hopefully the EC will listen. We have not been able to reach Nvidia for a comment on this issue, but hopefully they share AMD's concern. We definitely feel that restrictions that lead to more efficient hardware is a good thing, but it needs to be done properly with the affected companies being involved in the discussion. We will of course follow up on this and return with more information when possible. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Yuhfhrh on October 16, 2012, 03:36:03 PM Lol Nvidia and AMD should just stop selling graphics cards in Europe. Everyone will then just import them from elsewhere.
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: jojo69 on October 16, 2012, 03:38:10 PM lots of opportunity in smuggling bootleg video cards
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Raoul Duke on October 16, 2012, 03:40:47 PM Lol Nvidia and AMD should just stop selling graphics cards in Europe. Everyone will then just import them from elsewhere. And most of them would probably get held at Customs offices. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Gatorhex on October 16, 2012, 03:54:35 PM Why on earth would you do this?
Just let the free market work, the rise in electricity prices, will drive the demand for more efficient computers. Typical EU bureaucracy taking a sledge hammer to a thumb tac. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: crazyates on October 16, 2012, 03:58:04 PM I can maybe see some legislation that mandates a certain level of power efficiency, but WTF?! Why would they limit the memory bandwidth?! That's just so stupid.
Here's what I hope happens: AMD and Nvidia just stop selling GPUs in Europe. I give it 2 months of Europeans crying about not getting their GPUs, and the law will be reversed. Sadly, I doubt this'll happen. Classic example of too much government. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: SgtSpike on October 16, 2012, 03:59:46 PM Oh my...
I can't understand why some people defend living in the EU when they come up with restrictive crap like this. And all the restrictions on cars, and everything else... they pretty much tell you how to live life it seems! Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: tacotime on October 16, 2012, 04:01:22 PM The likelihood of the euro zone even still being around in 2014 isn't all that high at this point, I wouldn't worry too much.
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: P_Shep on October 16, 2012, 04:16:44 PM Sounds like a typical over-inflated BS story made up by crappy 'journalists'.
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Gabi on October 16, 2012, 04:41:21 PM I'm european and i say this is disgusting
I hope it's one of the tons of idiocies that never happens but the fact that they are even thinking about that it's ridicolous. Ehi europe, in case you didn't notice we are all happily going toward a black hole, stop wasting time with bullshit like that and start do something USEFUL ::) Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: hamdi on October 16, 2012, 04:52:00 PM opens a new market for firmware tuning
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: thebaron on October 16, 2012, 05:06:16 PM lots of opportunity in smuggling bootleg video cards My first thought, lol. Silk Road is going to need a new section... Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Gatorhex on October 16, 2012, 05:16:31 PM We're talking about the people who think they can regulate how bent a banana should be..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_banana_regulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_banana_regulation) ..but have not been able to audit their own accounts for 13 years and counting! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7092102.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7092102.stm) :D ;D ;) :D ;D Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: MysteryMiner on October 16, 2012, 05:41:55 PM European Union is run by homosexuals. They are installing electric heating in new government buildings here that consume about 2KW per hour per apartment. In comparison HD6990 consumes only 1/6 of that under load. And they also banned 100W light bulbs.
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: GernMiester on October 16, 2012, 05:45:29 PM So a bunch or pencil pushers with no clue are going to enact laws crippling high end computer graphics.
WAY TO GO EU ASSHATS Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: nobbynobbynoob on October 16, 2012, 05:52:03 PM Typical EUSSR bureaucratic thinking.
In the EUSSR, if it isn't banned, it's mandatory. Oh, and you can't elect a new government: the "elected" governments in EU member states consist largely of apparatchiks. People who remember eastern Europe, Russia etc. before 1990 will be very familiar with this. Not that the rest of the world is a whole lot better! We can't all be Icelanders and Manxmen, sadly. (And even the latter, while enjoying reasonable freedoms and lowish taxes, shadow the whopping 20% UK VAT in order to maintain a Customs union with the EUSSR. But they still have a semblance of democracy on the Isle of Man.) Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: ralree on October 16, 2012, 05:53:49 PM I like that - EUSSR. Sounds accurate when applied here.
Obviously the current generation of video cards is fast enough - we'll never need anything faster. This was true of CPUs in the 80's - no one's needed to calculate more than 33 million instructions per second since then! Obviously this doesn't hurt innovation or anything at all. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: nobbynobbynoob on October 16, 2012, 06:00:25 PM I like that - EUSSR. Sounds accurate when applied here. Time for another "1989", Europe-wide this time. It can happen; I just hope it's not a violent revolution. Quote Obviously the current generation of video cards is fast enough - we'll never need anything faster. This was true of CPUs in the 80's - no one's needed to calculate more than 33 million instructions per second since then! Obviously this doesn't hurt innovation or anything at all. 1 MB video RAM and a 16-bit ISA bus is more than we'll ever need... said no software company CEO ever. :) Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: phillipsjk on October 16, 2012, 06:11:22 PM European Union is run by homosexuals. Ad hominem.Quote They are installing electric heating in new government buildings here that consume about 2KW per hour per apartment. In comparison HD6990 consumes only 1/6 of that under load. If true that electric heating can be displaced by GPUs. Maybe sell GPUs as electric heaters? Or more likely, ASICs?Quote And they also banned 100W light bulbs. The problem with this is that the replacement bulbs (compact fluorescent) fail in enclosed fixtures; especially in high-temperature locations. They also use mercury, which is more hazardous than tunsgten. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Sant001 on October 16, 2012, 07:46:49 PM That's just the beginning, as this is part of a bigger agenda in the EU of pushing for greener everything from flights to bulbs.
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: phelix on October 16, 2012, 09:16:05 PM Typical EUSSR bureaucratic thinking. In the EUSSR, if it isn't banned, it's mandatory. Oh, and you can't elect a new government: the "elected" governments in EU member states consist largely of apparatchiks. People who remember eastern Europe, Russia etc. before 1990 will be very familiar with this. [...] eussr - lol. we so overregulated. it is a shame. I wonder if/when people will hit the streets about it Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: nobbynobbynoob on October 16, 2012, 10:21:33 PM we so overregulated. it is a shame. I wonder if/when people will hit the streets about it They already have, especially in the southern states! Trouble is, they seem to be protesting "austerity" itself (hang on, isn't a reduction in government spending in and of itself a good thing?) rather than what is, IMO, the real underlying problem, i.e. the sheer corrupt politics and sham economic policies, not to mention that the "austerity" is being done for the benefit of the Banksters and not the "common" people. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: cedivad on October 16, 2012, 10:25:24 PM we so overregulated. it is a shame. I wonder if/when people will hit the streets about it They already have, especially in the southern states! Trouble is, they seem to be protesting "austerity" itself (hang on, isn't a reduction in government spending in and of itself a good thing?) rather than what is, IMO, the real underlying problem, i.e. the sheer corrupt politics and sham economic policies, not to mention that the "austerity" is being done for the benefit of the Banksters and not the "common" people. A corrupted gov can only account for x of our deficit. A corrupted economy have a far bigger power. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Raoul Duke on October 16, 2012, 10:26:10 PM we so overregulated. it is a shame. I wonder if/when people will hit the streets about it They already have, especially in the southern states! Trouble is, they seem to be protesting "austerity" itself (hang on, isn't a reduction in government spending in and of itself a good thing?) rather than what is, IMO, the real underlying problem, i.e. the sheer corrupt politics and sham economic policies, not to mention that the "austerity" is being done for the benefit of the Banksters and not the "common" people. What you fail to see is that the only austerity going on is raising taxes and not cutting of government expenses Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: SLok on October 16, 2012, 10:50:32 PM "Exactly what the "performance" and energy consumption quote looks like we don't know at the time of writing, "
in short, an article build on fud. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: CharlesPonzi on October 16, 2012, 10:55:28 PM we so overregulated. it is a shame. I wonder if/when people will hit the streets about it They already have, especially in the southern states! Trouble is, they seem to be protesting "austerity" itself (hang on, isn't a reduction in government spending in and of itself a good thing?) rather than what is, IMO, the real underlying problem, i.e. the sheer corrupt politics and sham economic policies, not to mention that the "austerity" is being done for the benefit of the Banksters and not the "common" people. Corporations getting taxpayer bailouts while the same taxpayers need to live off noodles to survive is a major issue. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: SgtSpike on October 16, 2012, 11:11:45 PM we so overregulated. it is a shame. I wonder if/when people will hit the streets about it They already have, especially in the southern states! Trouble is, they seem to be protesting "austerity" itself (hang on, isn't a reduction in government spending in and of itself a good thing?) rather than what is, IMO, the real underlying problem, i.e. the sheer corrupt politics and sham economic policies, not to mention that the "austerity" is being done for the benefit of the Banksters and not the "common" people. Corporations getting taxpayer bailouts while the same taxpayers need to live off noodles to survive is a major issue. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Lethos on October 16, 2012, 11:36:53 PM There is a good reason why the United Kingdom, wants out of Europe, it's stupid crap like this we've put up with ever since we join have had the pleasure of being the first countries basically funded these idiots who come up with this crap and go around telling everyone in europe what to do, even when it clearly makes no sense.
Yes, I can see energy efficient computers a noble goal. It's something I do consider when designing a server, or usually opting for a laptop rather than a tower PC for my next work computer. Do I think it should be some kind of law or regulation that can mean if you don't abide to it, you can't sell in europe, not really. However I could atleast understand it, if it was at least measured by the thing you are trying to lower, the energy it uses. Memory Bandwidth doesn't directly correlate to energy use, it shouldn't even be part of the equation. I would of respected them an ounce more (it's very low as it is), if they had atleast set the standards based in wattage increments of the TDP, from say 15-150W, maybe a nice little bonus for those who's sleep mode can operate under 2.5W for example. At least that would of made abit more sense, clearly they haven't consulted any experts. It's still very stupid and on average the previous generation of GPU's have became more energy efficient, just like CPU's have. Their Power hasn't increased that much over the years, they have mostly increased in energy efficiency, so they can't make out they needed to force them to do this. They are making this progression on their own, so why come up with this in the first place? Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: nobbynobbynoob on October 16, 2012, 11:44:43 PM Corporations getting taxpayer bailouts while the same taxpayers need to live off noodles to survive is a major issue. +1 Absolutely this is. But on the streets we hear mostly chants of "stop the cuts!" Just caught a bit of a program on TV about the life of a Jakarta garbageman working 0600-0030 every day for peanuts (if that). Flytippers and local corruption are major issues; he lives in a slum where biodegrading rot and tropical bugs reign supreme. He still could manage a smile or three. Hardship is relative, and perhaps ever so slightly less harsh if that's all you ever knew from day one on this earth. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: quasarbtc on October 17, 2012, 05:47:17 AM Nuts. Hopefully the big two are putting some money toward lobbyists.
Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: bce on October 18, 2012, 09:24:43 PM All that the future cards will need is to be designed by default to operate in a lower power eco-green-earthy mode. Who wouldn't like that, right? You could even use these future gaming beasts in eco-mode with one PCI-e power connector instead of two (the green colored one is the one you'd use, of course) :P.
In EU countries, the non-green one could be covered with tape or something saying "Don't remove this!!! BAD! NO NO!" Then include a simple software or firmware utility for all non-EU customers to UNLEASH THE BEAST. After pressing "I accept" to prove that you're not in an EU country, then it's all good, and you can game just like anywhere else in the world ;D I'm sure nobody will find a way to smuggle such software into the EU. Problem sovled. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2012, 09:31:42 PM Quote And they also banned 100W light bulbs. The problem with this is that the replacement bulbs (compact fluorescent) fail in enclosed fixtures; especially in high-temperature locations. They also use mercury, which is more hazardous than tunsgten. I hate the EU for that. The solution for me is using fixtures with multiple light-bulbs where I can. And I have recently came up with a way for "smuggling" 100W bulbs out of Eastern Europe. :D Anyways the European Union is the worst conglomeration of useless Bureaucrats ever, I can't wait for it's collapse. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: thebaron on October 18, 2012, 09:55:39 PM We have an awesome grocery store here that sells 8 packs of Sylvania bulbs for a buck. So I can easily stock up for a great price.
They also sell their brand of LED lighting for $10 a pop (insanely cheap). Still too expensive, IMHO. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: ElectricMucus on October 18, 2012, 09:59:00 PM We have an awesome grocery store here that sells 8 packs of Sylvania bulbs for a buck. So I can easily stock up for a great price. They also sell their brand of LED lighting for $10 a pop (insanely cheap). Still too expensive, IMHO. The problem with LED bulbs is they don't have a good CRI rating. There are ways to archive a decent color rendering if multiple LEDs with different wavelengths are used but there isn't affordable solution for home use yet, except DIY. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: BlackHeartFund on October 20, 2012, 02:07:13 PM We're talking about the people who think they can regulate how bent a banana should be.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_banana_regulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_banana_regulation) "bananas sold as unripened, green bananas should be green and unripened, firm and intact, fit for human consumption, not rotten, clean, free of pests and damage from pests, free from deformation or abnormal curvature, free from bruising, free of any foreign smell or taste" The horror! People on this board make up so much bullshit every time any government or regulation is mentioned, this is like the third time I've had to defend one simply on common sense, and I'm an anarchist lol. All the complete nonsense that gets thrown around here is not doing us any favours. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: BlackHeartFund on October 20, 2012, 02:08:58 PM European Union is run by homosexuals. ...thanks?? I thought it was run by laws and votes. Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: nobbynobbynoob on October 20, 2012, 02:36:55 PM European Union is run by homosexuals. ...thanks?? I thought it was run by laws and votes. Unelected, appointed Commissioners actually, but who cares about their sexuality anyway? Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: runeks on October 20, 2012, 03:20:41 PM I'm not saying this is true, but it really wouldn't surprise me if it is.
The likelihood of the euro zone even still being around in 2014 isn't all that high at this point, I wouldn't worry too much. Euro zone != EU. Also, I don't think your prediction will hold true, unfortunately.Title: Re: EU cripples future graphics cards Post by: Badonkadonk on October 21, 2012, 12:37:07 PM wonder when the time will come, the ppl need to stand up and let it be known that we dont want shit like the EU or NAU in our lives...
wont be long til they implement a union in asia eather i guess... most ppl here in norway have said no in the past and still say no to this day, but the gov is still pushing hard to make it in... police state fml |
