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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Ginsley on November 21, 2012, 01:55:13 PM



Title: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Ginsley on November 21, 2012, 01:55:13 PM
Hi,

i'm just wondering how to generate the Proof of Stake, if my coins are old enough for that.
Can anyone explain please?


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Liquid on November 21, 2012, 02:01:36 PM
It happens Automatically


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Ginsley on November 21, 2012, 02:03:02 PM
so if it happens, i see a new transaction in my wallet-GUI?


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: FuzzyBear on November 21, 2012, 02:23:48 PM
yup, you'll get a Stake value showing .. and the number of coins will be taken from ur balance, than after 520 confirmations u get the coins back + a few extra as your proof of stake reward :)


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: rustyh17 on November 21, 2012, 02:31:40 PM
I have PPC held at the exchange right now. Are they "aging" or do I need to move them to my
wallet? I plan on holding these for the long term. I was just curious how that worked. Also, does
the size of your holding determine your stake size too?


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: wormbog on November 21, 2012, 02:46:26 PM
All aging resets when you move the coins. Keeping them at an exchange won't generate anything for you. You need to move the coins to a personal wallet and keep ppcoind running to generate coins.

For those interested, from a wallet with 102,000 PPC, I've generated 23 coins from proof-of-stake in the last 7 days. It's not much of a return, but at least heat and power usage are not an issue.


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Ginsley on November 21, 2012, 03:04:46 PM
Just to ask - you said ppcoind has to be running - do i have to run it all the time? Or do i just have to wait for lets say 30 days and then run it for 5 minutes?


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Remember remember the 5th of November on November 21, 2012, 03:08:43 PM
Why don't you guys explain to him, that he needs to NOT SPEND any coin from his wallet and wait 30 or more days for him to be eligible for Proof of Stake.


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: cunicula on November 21, 2012, 03:14:02 PM
Just to ask - you said ppcoind has to be running - do i have to run it all the time? Or do i just have to wait for lets say 30 days and then run it for 5 minutes?

1) You cannot spend your coins if you want to make money from PoS.
2) Running the client all the time will speed up your generation.
3) Running the client all the time will not yield extra rewards. If you generate stake in one year instead of one month, then your generation yields 12 times as many coins.

Thus, you don't need to run the client all the time unless you a) feel impatient b) plan to spend your coins soon.

Finally, PoS generation yields 1% interest per annum. It will take you 70 years to double your holdings via PoS generation. Don't get too excited about it. It is there to secure the blockchain,
not to be a get rich quick scheme.

If you are looking for a get rich quick scheme, try PoW mining.





Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Ginsley on November 21, 2012, 03:38:43 PM
I knew i cannot spend my coins to generate PoS. I am just asking now, because my few mined coins are waiting on my wallet since about one month for about 30 days (i have to look for that).

2. I dont understand, how running the client (you are speaking of ppcoind i think) will speed up my generation - i am running CGMiner to mine for ppc with my fpga and have just got ppcoind running with my cpu
3. generating stake - does this mean, i have to find a block (PoS block?) to generate the stake for my wallet? If it is so - dont i have to wait for a long time, when ppcoind is running with the low hash power of my cpu? I havnt got my fpga running with ppcoind (and dont know, if it is possible at all)

I dont want to get rich quick - i just want to understand how PPC really works - i was wondering for weeks now and didnt understand many posts on the main PPc-thread 100% - so i decided to ask on a separate thread.


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Remember remember the 5th of November on November 21, 2012, 03:44:40 PM
I knew i cannot spend my coins to generate PoS. I am just asking now, because my few mined coins are waiting on my wallet since about one month for about 30 days (i have to look for that).

2. I dont understand, how running the client (you are speaking of ppcoind i think) will speed up my generation - i am running CGMiner to mine for ppc with my fpga and have just got ppcoind running with my cpu
3. generating stake - does this mean, i have to find a block (PoS block?) to generate the stake for my wallet? If it is so - dont i have to wait for a long time, when ppcoind is running with the low hash power of my cpu? I havnt got my fpga running with ppcoind (and dont know, if it is possible at all)

I dont want to get rich quick - i just want to understand how PPC really works - i was wondering for weeks now and didnt understand many posts on the main PPc-thread 100% - so i decided to ask on a separate thread.
You need not mine to generate PoS. The client tries to do it automatically, but I have no idea if it's possible to estimate when you will get PoS. Basically, this currency is trying to be energy-efficient, by not needing to mine to generate proof-of-stake blocks, however you can still mine the old fashioned way and get proof-of-work blocks.


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: cunicula on November 21, 2012, 03:50:14 PM
I knew i cannot spend my coins to generate PoS. I am just asking now, because my few mined coins are waiting on my wallet since about one month for about 30 days (i have to look for that).

2. I dont understand, how running the client (you are speaking of ppcoind i think) will speed up my generation - i am running CGMiner to mine for ppc with my fpga and have just got ppcoind running with my cpu
3. generating stake - does this mean, i have to find a block (PoS block?) to generate the stake for my wallet? If it is so - dont i have to wait for a long time, when ppcoind is running with the low hash power of my cpu? I havnt got my fpga running with ppcoind (and dont know, if it is possible at all)

I dont want to get rich quick - i just want to understand how PPC really works - i was wondering for weeks now and didnt understand many posts on the main PPc-thread 100% - so i decided to ask on a separate thread.

It is not limited by CPU power. Think of it this way. While your client is running it is continuously taking lottery draws. The number of lottery draws you take per unit time is proportional to your coin-age.  
If your client is not running, then you are not observing lottery draws and therefore you could miss a winning draw. Your winning draw becomes invalid if it is not inserted in the blockchain at the appropriate time. You then have to wait for the next lucky draw.

Missing an opportunity does not affect your expected rewards because your PoS block reward grows the longer you wait. Essentially, you still get the same reward, but you wait longer to claim it.

The exact details of the lottery system are in the code. Annoyingly, Sunny King does not explain the PoS details adequately in the ppcoin paper. Thus, the inability to respond to your questions. I learned this mainly through discussions with Killerstorm who skimmed the code. I cannot read code [except Matlab] and therefore cannot find out more details for myself.


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Ginsley on November 21, 2012, 03:59:52 PM
Thanks alot for all your explanations - i think, now i can imagine the purpose and mechanism alot better than before :) seems i should put ppcoind into my startup routine, so it runs any time my pc is on :)

Anyone knows, if it is running on Debian (Raspberry) too? I started mining with my fpga on a RPi, so it would be more effective to run ppcoind on it.


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: cunicula on November 21, 2012, 04:00:19 PM
You need not mine to generate PoS. The client tries to do it automatically, but I have no idea if it's possible to estimate when you will get PoS. Basically, this currency is trying to be energy-efficient, by not needing to mine to generate proof-of-stake blocks, however you can still mine the old fashioned way and get proof-of-work blocks.

You shouldn't think of it as mere energy efficiency. If implemented properly it should also have much lower fees and be much more secure against 51% attack. The question is "has it been implemented properly?"
We really don't know because the implementation details are opaque.

I have ~25k PPCoin and would buy a lot more if I could actually verify how it worked.

As it stands, I won't buy more until
a) a complete description of the PoS scheme is revealed [the most important thing for me]
b) the code is audited by a trustworthy third party. [also important but broken code can be fixed]
c) the checkpoint issue is made more transparent. [second most important]


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Bytas on March 19, 2013, 01:33:34 PM
If you have to have the client running to generate proof of stake, doesn't that partly defy the puppose of becomming energy efficient?
You are basically still mining, only with an other method.


Title: Re: [PPC] How to generate Proof of Stake
Post by: Vitalicus on March 20, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
1.on POS only your PC work, not your videocard.
2.You need to run PC only 3 days, then is your POS generation, (the money are on STAKE) - it is correct ?