Bitcoin Forum

I haven't been here in awhile.  I initially left because the posts were becoming 99% inane.  Meaningless comments, often in horribly broken english that basically said nothing of value.  Often just one-liners, or pointless replies.

Then I noticed that every single post by these people had a beautiful, large, full color banner for some bitcoin gambling site, or bitcoin product or service.

Now I am back, and I just looked through a thread in the General Forum.  Literally the entire thread is pointless meaningless comments with zero intelligence or thought put into any of them, and literally *EVERY* post has a banner ad in the signature.

Has it escaped the mods on this forum that their forum content quality has gone to complete sh*t and that its because you allow spamming / advertising in signatures?  Do you realize you can singlehandedly quadruple the intelligence and quality of posts here if you ban advertising in signatures?

Why?  Because these people only post to get their signatures displayed on the page.  Therefore what they write is going to be pointless by default.  And banning signature spamming will instantly stop them from bothering to post.

Unless this site is getting paid for those advertisements, there really is no reason to allow this to continue.  Each thread looks like a flashing billboard with near zero quality content.

Just wondering.

-B-   (forum Admin for nearly 15 years with 65,000+ members)

You assume the admins actually care enough to do away with sig spam.

They don't give a fuck.

This place has been a spammy shithole for years.

Helps to turn off signatures in your Preferences.

Have a read. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786662.0)

OP, I couldn't beat 'em, so I joined 'em.  For quite a while I raged against the signature campaigners for exactly the reasons you mentioned.  It pissed me off to no end that these fuckers were actually making money for posting complete garbage while I was making relatively well thought out posts in decently written English.  So I joined what's considered the bottomest-of-the-barrel campaign, and I do my damnedest not to spam garbage. 

I actually like this forum for its openness and its tolerance of a lot of things, and I very much support bitcoin.  I try to be a model signature campaigner, and that business model--the renting out of the signature space--has intrigued me ever since I heard about it.  It gives people who are extremely poor a chance to make a little bit of money here if they're so interested, and I fully support that.  Good topic, OP.

Moderators do not make the rules, we enforce them. Theymos ultimately decides everything.

The post quality may be shitty, but that's because the admins are lenient. Maybe if they had certain rules set for signature campaigns, do the campaigns strongly discourage spam.

I know crypto games currently is very strict with their post quality rules, that's why there aren't any crypto games spammers around. They've either snapped to attention, or been kicked.

I don't think the site is getting paid for the signature's that appears on users who promotes them.
I thought of that as well before that campaign managers that they need to donate or something but I read somewhere that they don't, but it helps in increasing the traffic of this site because of those of participates in signature campaigns.

I hope you don't consider my post to be one of zero quality and solely for making money.

Let's be honest; signature spammers (and yes, I do agree that 95% of people with a signature don't know how to do anything but parrot things back and forth, so thus: spammers) bring in some extra cash for theymos, whether you like it or not. 80% of all the discussions here would be gone - probably more. That's 80%+ less traffic that the forum can boast about, which means roughly 80+% less profit.

If you don't want to see useless comments, try importing dannyhamilton's ignore list[1] and use his methods to ignore spammers. If you don't like the flashy signature, use the plugin[2] to disable them. The main problem came when campaigns like YoBit started automated campaigns that has little to none restrictions. Almost all of the poor quality posters came from automated campaigns. It is not the admin's fault, it is the fault of the signature campaign managers. YoBit have hilariousandco(?) co-managing it which reduced the spam by a bit.

Just a note. Not all participants want to spread thoughtless post and post solely for the payments.
[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0
[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1003570.0

As was pointed out by myself and others in @deepceleron's topic blocking the sigs and even ignoring the posters does not prevent you seeing the topics appear in the Watchlist or Unread posts list (you only work out you've wasted your time after you click on the topic to see that the latest post is from a user on your ignore list and when your ignore list has hundreds or thousands of users on it you aren't going to remember all of those user names).

Also with new accounts appearing (nearly every few seconds it seems lately) you are simply never going to keep your ignore list up to date.

I have been working towards creating a completely decentralised forum that will have a superior ignore implementation (so your personal list of topics would not show as unread any topic that has had posts added by users you are ignoring and that by default new users can be automatically ignored).

The hardest part is of course getting people interested to join in and create the content which I'll be hoping to do in 2016.

The admins barely do anything to fight spam on this forum. Only when a spam bot is reported, then they will take action. Otherwise, nothing.

The Moderators are the one's taking action on those spammers with the help of the other staff's and some members who are vigilant in reporting spammers through "report to moderator" button or by simply creating a thread to get noticed by the Moderators.

Very sad OP locked his thread , this was a good discussion :(

I think that we need some subforum (i.e. technical and general discussion) where sig are banned, while in other places (like gambling and services) they could be mantained.

Low quality posts are everywhere, but for many people sig campaigns are the only way to earn a couple of bucks in bitcoin, and this is really good to spread adoption. Faucets pays too little...

Honestly people like to complain too much about the posting quality here but before there were signature campaigns no one gave a fuck and people still posted shit. There are some sections full of bad posts like the gambling section but overall the important sections have really good quality posts and you can always just ignore the bad posts.

And honestly it is only ever ad sig posters that keep making posts like the one above.

Sheesh... are you so desperately poor that you have to try and defend yourself because you are worried about losing your income if the forum actually did try and get rid of the rubbish posts?

It is also actually ironic that any attempt to create a topic regarding this just ends up full of ad siggers posting nonsense into it like they do in every single other topic in this forum (apart from some of the technical discussions or self-moderated topics).

I would recommend the OP to lock this topic also as it will just attract more and more silly ad sig posters as the other one did (maybe next time create a self-moderated topic so you can keep them out).

Just repeating something I said on the "main" sig spam discussion thread

How is what I said non-sense? I can't express my opinion because I have a signature ad? How is your post any better than mine? Do you think that because you don't have a signature ad your posts are going to be better than the ones who do?

No it wasn't. It was about 50 pages of people with sig ads saying "yeah there's spam but don't ban my sig campaign please", which is exactly what will happen if the OP doesn't follow CIYAM's advice.

I've discussed this with hilariousandco previously, the verdict is that it would be too difficult to maintain and enforce this sort of thing. That, and the sig spammers would simply more to another subforum. To quote him directly:

As previously said the mods cannot decide anything without theymos' permission, though I am in good faith that they do remove any extremely low quality posts from general forums (Not including Off Topic, since that place is a self-proclaimed cesspool). The problem comes in that post quality is subjective. Someone like CIYAM, who has good knowledge of Bitcoin and the way that it works, may find a post describing very basic matters low quality as they may see it as useless. In comparison, someone with a very basic knowledge of Bitcoin may find said post very useful.
Personally, I don't see this being fixed completely. Yes banning signature campaigns would help greatly (probably removing over 90% of the shit posts people make), though you are either kidding yourself or under great ignorance if you believe it would fix everything. I believe that in order to stop this problem signature campaign managers (and staff) should be harder on the shitty posts people here make and/or new rules should be implemented to clearly define the sort of posts allowed and disallowed to try and make the term 'low-quality post' less broad.

Though I don't know what I'm talking about because I have a signature campaign, right guys?

If we got rid of 90% of the useless posts the forum would be be attracting useful posters like @DannyHamilton rather than driving them away (as is occurring now).

Of course there is no perfect solution and no-one is actually asking or expecting that. Also what I think of as being of particularly "low quality" would I think be what most reasonable people would. If you have no technical expertise then clearly you should not be posting in topics that are asking for technical expertise (I don't go and complain about stuff in many of the subforums as I've blocked most of them now anyway).


This isn't a personal attack against any individual - you have admitted yourself (as have other ad sig posters) that the forum is full of rubbish posts and that those posts come from ad siggers.

yea it would attract one knowledgeable user maybe... and remove 90% of the traffic, which will kill the forum

if by instance you believe that only a few elite people can join any discussion here, then it's better for you and your elite group to create a chat group on telegram and discuss everything about bitcoin

the problem here is that there is plenty of reiteration, because we have discussed everything related to bitcoin already there is nothing to discuss anymore, minus news of the future

but those make up for a very low amount of discussion, that would be pointless to run an entire forum just for discuss that...


now yes please, begins to think that this is another shit post that is worth less than your because i'm carrying a signature...

I think the best thing you can do is to open self-moderated threads and only follow them. If you see a spammer you can delete yourself, you don't have to report it to moderator who's also wearing a signature.
More posts bring more money to the forum, banning campaigns can increase post quality but at the same time volume of threads and posts will significantly reduce.

Oh please fuck off already and quit inflating your post count, sig spammer.

But we would "save" at least some subforums.... as said, you can't get totally rid off spam or low quality post, but you can eliminate signatures (and hence " sig spammers" ) from some subforums.  

If you ask to me, I would permit signatures only in off-topic, gambling and services.

No sig spammers = dead forum end of story.

I strongly disagree with this statement. We would definitely lose a huge amount of posts, but the overall quality would significantly improve.

I am 110% onboard with that. The problem is the admins are not so it is a moot point. Personally I get a flat rate of .5 per month regardless of posts. I would be happy to give that up for a better forum experience. Our only hope is the campaigns adopt strict poster policies and ditch the paid per post.

I'm a newbie, both to Bitcoin and to the board. I'm here because I believe in Bitcoin as a savings medium, and as an international payment method. I'm surprised by the large number of posters who don't believe in Bitcoin, but use this forum to scratch a few dollars which they either gamble and lose, or convert to their local currency. I don't believe that they contribute to the board or to the expansion of Bitcoin. Would it be possible to concentrate micro-earnings discussions onto a new board?

I'm also shocked by the number of PayPal, Ebay and other accounts that are being offered for sale. It's these types of transaction that the uneducated public are using to discredit Bitcoin. We need to build its reputation as a valid payment medium for legal and reputable transactions.

Seems like theymos does not care enough about this issue even though a lot of users and staff members have complained (or still are) about it. I'm on board with strict regulations. Heck, I would volunteer to make sure that campaigns follow them. I have suggested something similar a few months back but nothing has been done so far.

It doesn't really matter to me if it is flat or per post because in either case people could be spamming (flat rate - multiple accounts and such; not implying that you are). I've been in various campaigns and various private deals through the last year. The income is extra and my posting habits have not been altered in comparison to the time that I was not in any campaign (sometimes I post even less). I don't care much about it and am strongly in support of strict regulations or complete removal of signature campaigns.

I laughed (self-consciously) when I saw my name on that premade ignore list.  I just started a sig campaign this month but I've been posting here since March and I like to think my posts aren't spam.  Others may feel differently, but I've seen some absolutely shit posts from sig campaigners, and especially Yobit ones.   I definitely try to contribute to whatever discussion, but I can't say I don't consider my post count.  Such is the nature of the sig campaign.  It really is a fascinating concept and one I've never seen on any other forum.

I think that's called a self-serving bias. No offense. Part of what it is to be human is to think highly of ourselves. Nobody thinks they're below average. You add up the self-reported contribution of team-members anywhere in the world, the sum will always exceed 100%. Studies have found the more sure we are of ourselves the more what we say is taken at face-value and the less prone we are to depression and illness.

 :)

Point well-taken, sir. I have no doubt that some of that is in play--it always is, even if we're aware of it if I'm not mistaken.  I remember learning about that long ago in some psychology class.  Alas I am disappointed to be on a default ignore list!  Oh well, I'll get over it.   :)

I found myself on a list once. I attributed it entirely to someone else's poor judgment. :-\ ;)

I started a thread 4 1/2 years ago about sig spamming.

It was a problem way back then.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=32780.msg409441#msg409441




~BCX~

it's not that he don't care, he simply does not want to see his forum die, and this is a valid concern for him, since you know he is the admin

does it look alright to have a forum with 10 people talking to each other , regardless of the post quality? no

Totally disagree.  The post content is shitty because the people posting aren't here to have a discussion.  They're here to get their signatures seen.  As a result, they type 1 sentence responses that say basically nothing, over, and over and over.

Even Theymos should care about this.  Surely he has pride in his site and its usefulness. 

Like I said - if he's getting paid then I totally understand why he allows it.  Its a source of income, and he's decided that its a fair tradeoff.  But if nobody is getting paid here, then Theymos is getting taken-advantage-of, and his own site is suffering content-wise too. 

I just dont understand the thinking there I guess.

-B-

Its hard for me to post in here without looking like im just trying to boost my post count but anyway ,to be fair the whole signature campaign probably brings in a whole lot of traffic and keeps the traffic coming back. Obviously the more traffic bitcointalk is getting im sure the more they make of their own paid adverts.

Sure without the sig campaign we might have some more intelligent posts but theres still going to be some shitty ones, just on a whole the forums would probably be a lot quieter. Less activity on bitcointalk doesnt do bitcoin any favours.

That definitely isn't the core objective of this forum.
Does this forum need a mission statement? What exactly are we trying to achieve?

And if I paid street drunks to spend their time in front of the grocery store down the street, the storeowner should be happy about the increased traffic, right?

My sig sums up what I think about this.

You forgot to add a (not so) teeny-tiny factor there, ad revenues.

True. Doesn't do much for me as a "customer", though.

Well true as well, but the "shop owner" will try to do whats in best-interest of him(/her). And well, as I said before, choosing between the two is not that hard:
1) Ban signature campaigns, lose 90% of the ad revenues, slowly gain 10s of Quality, "old-school" posters who seeing as they don't have a incentive to post... you can guess the next part.
2) Allow sig camps going on, maybe tighten up the rules that define a spam post, maybe ban anyone who comes below that standard. Lose about 5-10% of the ad revenue/userbase , gain 2-3 "old-school" members for maintaining the quality. Win-Win for all.

In case its not clear, the first situation is the one you/"old-school" members propose, while the second one is whats happening.

And I believe a Staff member's^[1] post best explains theymos:

I have been in a signature campaign for about a month, seems everyone doesn't lose the oppurtunity to let you know that you have a paid sig. With some scammers/trolls going as far as insulting anyone who comes up with genuine concern for a service/good that they offer. At least now(since 2 months) they can't come up with shitty excuses like that

P.S: Oh and for some strange reason I am still in Danny's public ignore list. I guess a PM asking to be removed since its been over two months, just doesn't do it
P.S.S: Apologies if this came out rude, but this is just the way things are/will be.