Bitcoin Forum

Well guys, I give you confirmation that bitmain and a thief,

3 PSU X = 1.0129 BTC = $ 431.9768, including shipping

value declared by bitmain 533.94 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

You want proof?It is written in Italian, but you can translate


https://i.imgur.com/2fVFw1z.jpg

Well, they don't steal anything, they don't get anything more from this, so yeah they often mess up the value on things, i'm not sure why, but its a pain to deal with the rectifying the price declared.

excuse, if I paid $ 430 including shipping,
because he said 533.94?

you know that the more the price is high the more you pay customs?

but you're in love with bitmain all here?
always defend him? even with the evidence?
I like you steal

You need to work on your English, i believe you are completely misunderstanding here and also using the wrong words.

Steal mean taking someone else's property. Which means by definition that Bitmain would need to gain the value of those taxes by lying about the value. They are not actually getting that amount, therefore its not theft.

However i am agreeing with you that their practices, bookkeeping and communication is horrible.

What more do you want?

for my English I help with google translator, I am sorry,

I'm pissed off because I do not understand why he said more than they cost,

I get 492.75 if I order today.

so that is about 40 usd wrong.  they should give you a $50 or 75$ coupon.

but they are not a thief .

https://i.imgur.com/2KfxWdH.png

Also, shipping costs are not supposed to be included in the value of the item. You can ship a box full of rocks that is going to be worth 1cent, shipping 100$, the value to be declared is 1cent.

Still i do not understand either way, how Bitmain come up with their reported value.

Price of import = sale price of items (or fair value) + shipping ACTUAL cost. The amount you were charged for shipping was possibly less than it actually cost to ship, meaning the declared value comes out higher. + exchange variations.

I would agree take a step back and breath.  Then go ask bitmain what hapened, I don't know if they can explain it or how it happened.  It would be interesting to see how they got the number.

But you will have much better luck emailing and asking them.  It might sound stupid but I would start off nice not calling them thief or let emotion take over. I think you will have better results if you talk to them and do it nicely.  Again it might not matter but in all my time I have had better luck asking companies nicely if something was wrong then getting emotional.

USA law varies  State to State.  In New Jersey  If I sold the 3 psu's and shipped them and my out of pocket was the 492 I would have to collect sales tax and give it to the state.  sales tax is 7%  so I would charge 7% of 492 = 34.30 usd so the buyer would owe 492 + 34.30 or 536.30

This would be for a sale completely inside NJ.

Bitmain is doing a China to Italy sale..  I have no idea how they are tasked to report it.  But 492 would not be far off in some places.

So is 533 really far off Based on Chinese and Italian laws and treaties along with European vat. I do not know.

 You need someone that knows all the laws involved since I know some places take the shipping into account for tax purposes.

Right, and i was basing my statement on my personal experience when dealing with import to Québec from China, as i've had to complain a few times as they messed up the amount. I did not have to pay import tax for services, but i've had varying experience with this depending on which shipping company i dealt with. (FedEx being by far the worse)

Do you have the proforma invoice from Bitmain that Fedex used for the calculations?
When there is no separate amount declared for Shipping, Fedex and DHL (probably UPS too) will add an arbitrary shipping charge amount to the invoice before they calculate VAT.
It's also possible that at the time Bitmain exported the items, the value increased because BTC exchange rate changed.
You paid a BTC value, not a US$ value, so it's possible that they edited the US$ value at the time of shipping.

I also saw somewhere that Bitmain is getting money back from Chinese governement based on the exported value.
If it's true and proven, overvaluating exported items (chosing the best exchange rate between sale time and shipping time) may be a way to make more income.

Maybe they wrote down that price because BTC had a higher value that day. They go off the current value of BTC instead of the past value when you paid.

It is simply not possible., that you paid $ 430 including shipping.

PSU is with fixed  price 140 USD
Shipping is fixed   price in USD.

3x 140=420USD for 3 PSU

FEDEX shipping costs for 6,9 kg from China to Italy can not be only 10USD

And even if he was, the courier declares the actual / tariff shipping charge and not the $10 he was actually charged.

That's a lie. You are to be charged on the value you PAID for. You cannot be taxed anywhere in the world for something you didn't pay, regardless of the company eating the shipping price or not. And Bitmain doesn't decrease the actual shipping price. If anything they increase it.

They get 17% from chinese government out of everything they export, or what they say they do.

If this is true, everyone who was charged a higher rate by customs should contact their carrier and dispute the customs charges. Provide the invoice given to you by Bitmain at the time of purchase that shows the dollar value you paid.

DHL is capable of doing this, but I'm not sure of the others.

he used FedEx bad idea they do tend to charge after the fact then lie to you, i had it happen a few times i avoid FedEx as much as i can. they may be the cheapest shipper Bitmain offers but are they really . when all  is said and done.when I order from Bitmain now i just pay the extra in shipping less pain and no hidden bills in the mail . it may have been the shipper and Bitmain both but I wouldn't call it stealing yet , find out what happen first .




They can at least i know UPS can, i don't trust FEDEX they did steal from me. Got a feeling it's more the shipper , Bitmain does come thu and doesn't steal they make big mistakes at times but make good .


I did that one time with FedEx and was told I would not be charged they did any way and on top of that told me custom charged them what the bill said  but it wasn't, it even said what the other addon charge was on the bill after i pointed that out, i was told no charge then they charged me any way to my CC, i had on file with them, i don't file my cc info with them any more, only use them if i have to .

@ marvykkio

Just be care full what shipper you use and pay that little extra no pain and supersizes, later on.  That Might cost more.

I had last year the same problem (and some of my friends too). I even paid by bank transfer in USD. And higher value on invoice is in EU really problem because high VAT (more than 20%).
I NEVER had such problem with other supplier.
It seems that Bitmain has some problems with filling papers for customs office...

they just don't care!!! simple as that!

before they were a bit more flexible with the VAT, now they prefer to just make fun of clients!

Of course you do, just as I have to pay import duties on both a review unit's value and shipping cost, even though I paid for neither.

I,m pretty sure taxes work the other way around. The more money they get from people, the more tax they need to pay, which would translate into being a income loss if you declare higher gain than you did gain and better gain if you declare same or less than what you gained.

Maybe China works differently than what i can imagine.

What do you mean flexible on VAT?  Are you talking like lower price listed or different category?   

Or I could be reading wrong into it.   Just was not sure what you meant on it.

3 x psu = 1.0129 btc  including shipping

1.0129 =  425 $

this is the price I paid to bitmain including shipping.

declared value of $ 533.94 bitmain

APW3-12-1600-B2 1600W   140 USD   2.3 kg x 3   420 USD
( 0.995 BTC )
0 USD
(0 BTC)   No Coupon   420 USD
( 0.995 BTC )
Shipping Cost   0.114 BTC
( 47.99 USD )
Total   1.109 BTC
( 467.99 USD

I had same problem each and every time with BITMAIN

I ordered many S7 via DHL, each time they declared 100 $ more per unit on invoice !
I didn't want to try and convince my customs of the real value of units because that would mean they would have held my package in customs additional days for invetigations ( meaning I wouldn't be able to mine with them, all because of this lying company)

At first I didn't understand why they always declare more, now I understand ,they get money from their government for exporting.

This company is based on lies and decieving

I don't know why this company is such high rated when they only care about their profits even if that means lying and deciving customs/clients etc.

We should all unite and do something about this

if you want we can open a poll, and vote against their policies and send them a copy

certain that it has fancy, you ask him to bitmain to make you pay less, and instead says more, and still here on the forum I see people who defend it,
Perhaps some of these people like to pay a lot more than they cost, I certainly do not want to rub me.
and I never liked the people without balls,.
in Sicily these people are put aside, because they bring nothing but trouble

I belive this is a good ideea, we whould start a pool and make a complaint against BITMAIN's bad behavior

I update you who have sent me an apology for saying 2 times the shipment, that will not happen again.

but repayment is not talked about.

This is absurd


Hi,
Sorry for the trouble.
I double  confirmed with shipping team and they confirm it's due to our financial department's request. but considering on our customers' side, I argue with them and convince them to follow the real shipping cost in orders in future. No worries.
It won't happen again, sorry for the inconvenience

Before you do that, please do some due diligence first.

Have a look at pos 12 Elementi del valore: 128.97 -> this is the value form Bitmain.


Everything else is filled out by FedEx. It has to, because they have to charge taxes to their service as well. It might be possible, that bitmain doesnt show off with the actual price for shipping.

enough for me to see that stated in the invoice 533.94

Stop ordering from them, this is not your first "omg bitmain scammers ripoff omg omg" thread.

But 128.97 x3 +22% import taxes are  (128.97*3*1.22)= 472.03 so there are just 60 (or 50 + 22% taxes) bucks left, which was possibly charged by FedEx for the customs service at the italian border. So actually it looks ok to me.

I know you have been ripped off by a forum member (thats a pity).

edit:

with 467.99 USD +22% taxes it would be 570.95 -> even more. USD/EUR is around 0.95, so thats 542 EUR.

This!

I was confused about this in the beginning as well, but Bitmain haven't done anything wrong here.

In estonia is the e‑Tax Board/ e‑Customs environment  and and each company and private person can submit their Custom declaration by himself.
http://www.emta.ee/?lang=en

So I pay from  miners and PSU-s only 20% VAT and pay nothing  a courier company.

If you do not want to declare themselves, then you can use courier companies for Custom declaration. UPS and DHL take about 20 eur for that.

From the buying-S5 +  miners until the end of the year I paid over 13 000 euro VAT. But I have saved hundreds of euros completing the declaration itself.

Come to Estonian e-resident and maybe pay less  8)
https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/about/

No, I don't think they get a 17% tax refund. I know they do. I know how chinese export works and I already heard directly from two bitmain employees about this.
That's why miners in chinese site are ~15% more expensive than global.

so you're telling me that everything is fine right?

Q: Bitmain give false?

A: They usually dont do that.

Q: so you're telling me that everything is fine right?

A: Yes, it looks right to me. Do the math:

140 x 3 = 420
420 + 48 for shipping = 468
 +22% tax in Italy = 458*1.22 = 570 USD *0.94 = 533 Euro

I wait for a paper invoice sent by FedEx, so you can see

You're both right.

EU you declare value and shipping.  In other countries, Canada for example, you only declare the value.

This is the order of 3X S7
in your opinion when should I pay now?
I have to make a loan to clear the goods?






https://i.imgur.com/zHO7PrP.jpg

thats weird, when i saw the customs paper the value bitmain had written down was almost less than half of what i paid for the s7...

someone can give me some explanation? how much do I pay taxes?

If you paid  3696.74USD with bank transfer it is, after all, easy.

Add 22% VAT = 813,28 USD
Then add  duty   3.7% = 136,77USD
+
administrative rights : 12,00 euro -------------->  =  $ 13,1136
stamp : 2,00 euro ---------------->  = $  2,1856

Total not less than 965,34 USD

In estonia I pay for this order only 739,35 USD   difference in price 226USD

we hope you're right, at this price you can stay well well

Duty for miners in EU??
I never paid custom duty, only VAT (aprox. 80 shipments within last 3 years).
What customs tariff code are you using?

I do not know what code you talk, I live in Italy,
How do you not pay customs duty


Where do I get the code?


I think these are the codes that you speak

205
405
200
201
605
999

for example here http://www.dutycalculator.com/hs-lookup/39832/hs-tariff-code-for-bitcoin-mining/
8471.50.0090

I took it by this post



As well I never paid any duty for computer PSU.

Import duty & taxes when importing into Italy
Overview
Import duty and taxes are due when importing goods into Italy from outside of the EU whether by a private individual or a commercial entity. The import duty and taxes payable are calculated on the CIF value, i.e. the sum of the value of the imported goods and the cost of shipping and insurance.  
Duty Rates
The duty rates applied to imports into Italy typically range between 0% (for example books) and 17% (for example Wellington Boots).  Some products, such as Laptops, Mobile Phones, Digital cameras and Video Game consoles, are duty free. Certain goods may be subject to additional duties depending on the country of manufacture, for example Bicycles made in China carry an additional (anti dumping) duty of 48.5%.
VAT Rates
The standard VAT rate for importing items into Italy is 22%, with a few exceptions attracting VAT at reduced rates of 10% or 4%. VAT is calculated on the value of the goods, plus the international shipping costs and insurance, plus any import duty due.
Minimum thresholds
For imports into Italy, there are minimum thresholds below which duty and VAT are waived.
Duty is not charged if:
the FOB value, i.e. the value of the goods excluding shipping and insurance cost, does not exceed €150
 
VAT is not charged if:
 
the FOB value, i.e. the value of the goods excluding shipping and insurance cost, does not exceed €22
 
Other taxes and customs fees
Excise duty is payable on for example tobacco and alcohol.
Additional customs fees can be charged to cover the expense of performing any required examinations, verification and or testing of the imported goods.

Local Customs office and contacts
More information on import declaration procedures and import restrictions you can find at the Italian Customs website.