Bitcoin Forum

Hello guys...

I've been looking into the asic world and since I started got lucky a few times and got burned too...

I would like to invest in an asic miner and buy it brand new (don't want to risk getting used gear that craps out on me)
But what manufacturer delivers and what should I be looking for?

I've been reading about the new 16nm chips that should be released this year...
So obviously I would be dumb to spend too much money on a 28nm asic miner...

Any advice would be welcome,
Thanks!

If you buy Today your only Choices are Bitmain S7 or Avalon6. Choice is close with supporters of both, so you would need to read the Forum and make your own decision.

As to future releases of 14 /16nm based Miners, then you are in the land of the unknown, with difficulty increases working against you and the Halving getting ever closer. BW.com will probably be one of the first in the next Month or so, could be keenly priced? Bitfury may release something or they might not, if they do will probably be the most efficient but likely to be pricey?

Rich

On picking I would ask OP does he have 220/240?  That is decent factor in which one is best for his situation.  Also is noise a issue?  this also is big on picking.

Also OP what is your electricity?   That can help us see if ROI is even possible.

You can grab an ANtminer S7 and go solo. It is kinda lottery but if you find a block you make a good profit! However to pool mine you need to remember that we are nearing the halving and that new hardware will come out

So... if I understand correctly... you all think the world of bitcoin is too far evolved for normal people to step in anymore?

Not sure how you deduced that from the replies you have had?

If you want some advice answer notlist3d questions above.


Rich

Not at all. Anyone can step into Bitcoin. However to start mining one would need to invest a lot of money and it would be a huge risk to take. The best way to get involved at this point is to buy some BTC and hold it for a while. Either than that you can invest less in cloud mining but you will probably not reach ROI

My apologies... I didn't know OP referred to me...

I do have 220/240v and noise is not the biggest issue. I would have a dedicated room.

Electric is not that cheap I guess... 8ct/kWh.


I tried some cloud mining next to my little home mining and honestly the numbers didn't seem to move in the same way... I'm not sure how much fate I have left in that...

Okay, well 8ct is not excellent but its probably workable. Antminer S5 for 200$USD would probably be the smallest thing i would go for. Are you located in the US? An alternative for S7's but not for long are Avalon6, since they are already located in the US, you can save quite a bit for not having to import so it can be worth considering.

Then there's the S7 from bitmain.
https://www.bitmaintech.com/product.htm

For PSU's i'd look for some options here, probably a 220v kit from Finksy or Jabberwock depending on where you are located.

If you buy bitcoins this is another way to invest that is safer then cloud mining but all ways remember that noting is fool proof.

https://btcjam.com/  I have few a hundred dollars in bitcoins inverted.

These is all ways risk with anything, including hard ware mining or having your own mining gear, which is the safest way to get bitcoins but it has it's risk like any thing.

Here are a few good suppliers of bitcoin gear in the US if he has it in stock he has a hard  time keeping most of the PSU break out boards in stock but he is in the US.

http://holybitcoin.com/

or this one but his stuff , to me is kind of out dated

http://www.gigampz.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html


another way to go ..

sidehack he offers a lot and dev gear, if he can get the chips at a very reason able price and is for the home miner. links to what hes tiring to do for us on the forums and his site.

http://www.gekkoscience.com/products/D750_supply_breakout_board.html

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173963.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1203190.0


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995675.0

Those sites are very interesting but I'm located in Europe. Not sure how shipping will be...

Actually I recently got burned buying 2 antminer s5 of ebay... both died within 12h... (don't know if there is something I can do about that)
This is why I'm a bit scared of "used gear"

I am looking at the S7 because they are popular and I guess you can resell them easily but then I about problems and failing boards again... (kinda gave me bad chill's)

Now, I'm not lazy and I know money doesn't come falling out of tree while sitting pretty.
But I want to believe with the right strategy there should be a way to grow into something decent.
(as long as you don't get scammed ofc...)

At this point in the Bitcoin mining game I would say the best miner to start with would be the SP35 Yukon Power miner.
https://vimeo.com/114685493

It's $2,235
Which is expensive but it will pay off, now that the halving is coming we really have no choice but to buy expensive ass hardware.
I've had some success with it.

One of the biggest issue's Europe seems to have is vat ontop of shipping.  Shipping cost is not bad but import taxes in some EU countries is horrible.

Your .08 cent's on electricity is decent about normal not great but not horrid.  I would check to make sure that's with fee's and taxes on electricity on that price double check as it is highly important.

If you stick with the two companies shipping this gen Avalon and Bitmain chances are they are not going to scam you.  Or go with trusted on buying used or use escrow it can be a great tool to stop scamming.

I would disagree with efficiency "0.66W/GH/s".  If you already bought it long ago yes keep mining it until you sell it.  But with .08 cents electricity if buying I would go current gen.

After it is unprofitable then sell it.  But going into old gear is hard at .08 cent's.  Out of curiosity why would you say it is the best miner for OP?

So, I guess the best choice would be something like the S7?
If the S5 does 0.5w/GH and the S7 is close to 0.25W/GH
By the time I get something back from the S5 I wouldn't be able to sell them any way, right?

I say so because since the halving is coming up and more gh/s will be required, you need to buy more expensive sturdy hardware.

But that hardware is dated, so i disagree with your recommendation, by far. Having a high hashrate per unit does not mean it is better return.

The forums has a trade channel some of the  sellers are from the EU and you can trust them , any thing they sell they will back it up or all the stuff i have bought off the forums they have, i have yet to be ripped off , as for  ebay i would get back with the sellers see what they will do if they care about there rep  they may replace those miners that stopped , I'm not sure how the EU ebay works but they may offer a return even if the sellers won't you may get your money back if you do, come back here and use this link .


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=75.0



Look for deals i would use escrow in your case and only buy from Sr. Members and up with no bad red marks or bad comments by there names , make sure to read what they say.

follow the sidehack link his stuff is sold in the EU even thu he based in the US.

and here is link for PSU supply's were you live or they may be able to help you some,one other member here said check it out in this post.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=966135.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=893159.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1284563.0

It is a bad idea more hash... is not what you base purchases on unless free electricity.  Virosa post is 100 percent correct. OP would be better off with 2 S7's.  For around the price you mentioned he will have more hash and efficiency around the .30w range.  

So less then 1/2 the efficiency.  Do you see what I mean?  Just makes a ton more sense on .08 cents.

yeah, correct, leave the s5 alone, it's not worth it anymore, it's all about s7 now and in few month a new asic will come out, but since the s7 is relatively new you can hope for a good resell value

S7 would be the only choice IMHO, however, even in that case I still stand behind my words that home mining is about to end soon.

Mining diff goes up 20-30% per month these days and there s hardly any space these days to make money from mining.

This is why I always choose a few PoS coins to stake where I can get all transparency I need and they ve been making me money for over a year now, DMD, FLY and CLAM especially.

TRANSPARENCY IS THE KEY, do not let your greed controls you.

If anyone needs any help about PoS, let me know, always glad to help. No referral links, no sales from my side, NOTHING. I help people cause I m a nice guy.

 Has not been available new from Spondoolies for something like a year now.
 VERY LOW efficiency by current standards - even their own SP20 can blow that away on efficiency.
 VERY LOW hashrate for the price - the Avalon 6 and Antminer 7 both offer a lot better on GH/$ and GH/w.
 WILL NOT PAY OFF unless you have FREE electricity - that high cost and low efficiency are prohibitive.



 Only a MORON or the owner of that miner would make that suggestion seriously.



 IMO the best thing to do on buying a new miner right now is WAIT. 14/16nm full custom is closer than most folks realise (and I'm NOT bothering to even watch the B-Eleven any more, it's not full-custom and not efficient enough to replace 28nm units).

PoS is Proof of Share, right?


"Took away the rest coz I don't wanna get banned for posting off topic stuff that belongs in the altcoin section
My apologies..."

Dont worry, i did not meant it that harshly. The worse case scenario if the thread turn into an Altcoin discussion, it would get moved to the Altcoin discussion board. (<- and this talk belong in the Meta board lol. At least we can say the forum is "very well organised". :) )

PoS is proof of stake and regardless of what everyone may say, the one thing that decide if you should mine at home or not is whether you have cheap electricity or not (under 0.08$/kWh).

So an S7, if you can get it fairly cheap is actually a good option right now with the price of it dropping.

By your standard (less than 8c/KWH) my electric is cheap - yet I've NEVER had any of the calculations I've done show that the S7 will ever pay off. Usually not even all that close to doing so.

 VERY VERY cheap (3c or under) maybe, though right now even at the way-too-late drop in S7 pricing it's still looking VERY iffy.

 NOT 7.5c

I would agree on cheap being closer to 3C or so.  The big guys can chase this electricity price and build where ever they find it.  This is why they have a huge advantage.   Some gear even at halving at 3C chances are they still can run.

Us more "regular" user's would be 8-10 cents or so I think.  And above 10 get's tough unless your one  of those who say's they use it for heat in winter... then it get's a little more complex.

No. 0.08$/kWh is not my standard for ROI'ing a S7. Its my standard that 0.08$/kWh+ is too high to mine. Though the S7 ROI in 4.5 months at current diff at 0.06$/kWh. That's not bad at all. The S7 itself will still be worth $ in 5 months too.

It's not better , for that amount of cash you can buy two S7 and more then likely make it back in a few months if you do it right .

Mining is not longer a few month's.  It's a longer process unless your talking about mining and selling.  Some have done good with mining with current gen and selling.  But some when Bitmain did price drops got stuck with inventory higher then current price.

I would not promise normal mining being a few months on ROI.

i know that big farm run on 5 cent not 3 cent, and i doubt they changed their place with their mega farm

maybe they can afford to upgrade their contract in some way?

Unless they own their own land or building (millions in capital expenditures, not including equipment)  including the maintenance and real estate taxes that would add .02 to .03 to whatever wholesale rate they are paying for electricity this is where the small guy doesnt have that over head, however the small guys cannot get .03-.-6 electricity rates.

Yes but these big guys can invest once in land/building and a lot of the setup.  Then they can re-use that and replace gear when needed.  So a lot of it is a one time investment.   

And on electricity they are getting some of the lowest there is out there.  They actually build with this in mind on most I believe and find cheap electricity before starting an operation.

And overhead get's paid of pretty quick with these mega mines.  Your not thinking of the scale they run.  We are not talking a few machines, were talking a ton.  So they are a huge amount of hash.

 No, they locate in places where electric is inherently cheap - like MegaBigPower in the Wenatchee area (normal electric rates of 3c/KWH or a little LESS even for small folks and residential).


 Like real estate in general, it's all about location - but in this case it's all about locating where electric is VERY VERY cheap.



 Real estate taxes aren't going to add a significant amount to their overhead if they own. A few thousand AT MOST to a farm running thousands of miners is a pittance.

And it's due to the scale they mine at.  Even if they have a network engineer, someone to monitor miners 24x7, people to work on miners, etc.  It is very small compared to what they bring in.

And in some countries they go to like China you would be surprised I think on pay.    They are able to get people for not a ton of money.