Bitcoin Forum

Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan discussing Bitcoin on CNBC in Davos. Jamie says during the interview that bitcoin the currency is going nowhere, that there's nothing behind it, and suggests that if it gets big - the government will stop it.

http://puu.sh/mD0ou/e302e3ff39.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3AWedkdwo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3AWedkdwo

The full uncut interview can be viewed here: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/20/pro-uncut-the-full-interview-with-jamie-dimon.html

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What do you think guys? Will governments stop Bitcoin?

I don't think "blockchain technology" or whatever you want to call it can work without something like Bitcoin at its core insuring security.
The people behind these Gigabloat coin forks are starting to understand that they need Bitcoin so they're trying to morph Bitcoin into something they think can one day be used to secure their own network services But what they don't understand is such actions would drive bitcoin into the ground.

no it will not because hopefully "government" is not a single entity, so if the usa gov want to stop it that's fine, they will only stop it there, in euro it keep going and in many other country also

also you can not really expect to stop something that can be easily used on any computer...

That's why we need to keep Bitcoin lean and mean.

Who knows maybe one day we'll end up weaponizing Bitcoin clients so they work like a DDos botnet so it can defend itself. lol

The point is, when it gets that "big", the government can no longer stop it.
We have to worry about attempts to stop it now, not when there are tens of millions of users.
This guy doesn't understand the fundamentals of Bitcoin/bitcoin.

This type of messages just shows how afraid the big guys are getting. Them falling back on the government also shows that they have no understanding of the potential of bitcoin and how it works to begin with.

It will be fun to see them become obsolete in the coming years, they never knew what hit them when they come crying at the governments doors.

Bitcoin being talked about by banks (in good or bad light) is a sure sign of it's increasing success!

"Governments like to control currency, know where it goes to and control it for monetary purposes".

The only way governments can and are controlling Bitcoin is by overseeing the gateway to entering the system,
i.e. exchanges that buy and sell BTC for Fiat currency. Whether this is a good or bad depends on many things including how liberatarian your views are.

"There's nothing behind a Bitcoin .... The Blockchain is a technology, and yes it's real"

This goes along with this current trend of banks trying to separate the perceived negative connotations of "Bitcoin" with the highly innovative
technology of the "BlockChain".  So here's the deal: You can't (of course!) have one without the other.  It's like saying we don't like
the idea of cars, but engines are great.  It's the vision and value of the car (or truck or motorbike....) that drove the invention of the engine.

The Bitcoin (or any Altcoin) needs to possess value as an incentive for miners to validate and mine blocks, securing the blockchain
and any other 'applications' such as secure contracts.

Jamie Dimon is showing a lack of understanding here.

And we still have idiots wanting to raise the block size so pigs like this can start controlling Bitcoin and stopping it full stop if they wanted to. This is why don't you support crap like XT and Classic, learn the lesson now or tomorrow will be to late...

do these idiots not understand that bitcoin cant be blocked, yeah you might ban it in your country but you cannot stop it.  Anyone with a computer and an internet connection can run a node and if the big mining farms where shut down they could mine it also, these people never surprise me in there arrogance........

Good luck is all I have to say...

These people don't know what they are talking about.

What a buffoon, you can't stop a decentralized system. 

You are not representing your side of the debate very well.

First of all, people like Gavin Andressen and Mike Hearn are not "idiots".  
They are very smart computer scientists, (as are Adam Back and Greg Maxwell.)

Secondly, the motivation to raise the blocksize limit is so that Bitcoin can scale.

Third of all, find me one person who is an "XT supporter".

Fourth, if you think bigger blocks will hurt bitcoin, why don't you make
an intelligent argument as to why?  Hint:  All the arguments have been
made already.

yes, they can "stop" it very easy... The FEDs will put in jail all the US exchangers without financial license. They already did that with few. How many US exchangers have license? 2-3? :) Most of them are illegal.
this will be the end of BTC. Also, they can ban foreign exchangers to use USD. All the correspondent banks for USD are from USA. It's so simple.

Bitcoin without exchangers = like dead

It might lose more of its monetary value, but it can still be utilized among circles that are willing to trade it for one good or another. Heck, even on the dark web you'll still be able to exchange it. It just comes down to how much people will value anonymity instead of convenience.

Your keyword is "Internet" in which, some governments have control of.  One single country in the east with its Great firewall can easily cause chaos in bitcoins.  Another country in the west have total control of the "backbone" of the Internet can also cause chaos if it choose to.

Yes, the dark market will continue to use it but the normal people NOT. US gov does not have to ban Bitcoin, they just need to apply the law and the law is simple. "Are you an e-currency exchanger, trading company, etc? You need a financial license to operate. Don't you have one? You will go to jail". It's that easy. It happened with some exchangers(make a search) in the near past.

The internet in itself is decentralized. The backbone of the internet is not located in one country, but multiple countries. And pulling the plug on the internet a) doesn't work and b) would be absolutely catastrophic to other stuff that the governments do care about. The internet cannot be shutdown, and with anonymizers like Tor, censorship and blocking can be easily circumvented.

Furthermore, we can also develop a bitcoin network through radio and not rely on current internet infrastructure. Instead we could create a global peer-to-peer radio network solely for bitcoin. There are people who are trying to create such a network (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1326941.0)

shhh, maybe nobody has let them in on the hoax yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDbyYGrswtg

But which government? :)

Assuming that China's hash power and possession style of btc I am not sure that if US tries to stop it, it stops. It would like marihuana or something like that. :)

By the way, Bitcoin getting serious by companies. Purchasing chain completed with debit cards and ATM. You can easily spend btc without using US dollar now.

The government may want to regulate it in the future maybe... They want to know the transactions and real names. :)

what american will send bank wire to China in order to buy BTC or to receive wires? the americans are used to send local bank wires.

This is a good point, it seems that the government doesn't really understand that you can't really "shut down" bitcoin; that's just like saying you can "shut down" just a part of the internet, which obviously wouldn't work.

I remember my uncle who was a broker for Morgan said the same thing... and I think we all know that major governments would give it the old college try, especially if the USD, Euro, Yen, etc. becomes worthless paper (which is already basically is) and they are trying to "correct" the mess (maybe with some other weird inflation tactic which essentially kicks the can down the road).

The thing we all have to remember, is that the Central Banks are a small group of very wealthy and powerful people that has every nations army at their side (pretty much).  So to say that they won't do something to try to keep the power is an understatement to the max.

There isn't a banker in the world that cares about bitcoin. They care as much about it as they care about the value of the Western Africa CFA franc.

Most of the bankers don't care because they don't understand the dynamics of BTC. Most of them are just "economists" not geeks. They can't imagine how BTC would be useful for the world.

I would generally agree...but...

Obviously Jamie Dimon cares.  He won't shut up about it.  
What's this, his like 5th or 6th time in the press talking
about it?

MOST bankers don't care or get it.  Dimon is sharp
as a tack, he got to where he is for a reason and
he knows long term what Bitcoin COULD be...and
apparently doesn't like it.  I think it threatens his worldview,
even if he won't be around long enough to see it
displace any of his business.

Dimon needs to do himself a favor and stop making a fool of himself.

Most they can do is to make it underground, but I wouldn't say that necessarily means price will drop because, remember, technically Bitcoin may be the the asset with best properties of all assets out there...

Interesting replies here. It's because of the US banking policy, that Bitcoin was invented. It is just another thing contributing to the demise of the dollar. If the US tries to shut down Bitcoin, then it will just strengthen it. A far bigger risk is if Jamie Dimon invents a Bitcoin based scammy derivative scheme, he'll be promoting it like mad then.

The US refused to let China into the IMF, and China got fed up, and created an Asiam equivalent.
The US imposed sanctions on Russia, and they were forced to trade oil in dollars. They have now reached a number of agreements with China and others, and there is an oil quote based on Rubles now
China is a massive buyer of physical gold, the US deals in paper gold. What will happen to the dollar if China ask for delivery of some of this paper gold? You can bet that a gold based Renminbi will replace the dollar as a reserve currency.

As long as it can be exchanged for cash or goods somewhere it will work. 

For example lets assume it is banned in the US but remains legal everywhere else.  You'd simply see people sending it to someone in Europe who would pay them in usd through paypal or some such.  Sure, maybe paypal will crack down on it but as weve seen with every other form of money laundering or fraud, where there is money to be made people will find a way.  Moreover, with something as anonymous and easy to send as bitcoin (compared to say drugs, illegal physical items or fraudulently obtained bank or creditcard funds) it would be exceptionally difficult for someone like paypal and law enforcement to to detect and crack down on the practice.

For a ban to work you'd need to make it illegal almost everywhere immediately.  Otherwise you'll just have people operating a system such as the one above, which would dramatically -increase- the price due to the lack of supply caused by the closing of US exchanges and the ability of bag holders to name their price. 

many people like you does not understand a simple fact. :)
The Govs do not need to ban Bitcoin. The exchangers can be put in jail in the most of their own countries because they do not have financial license. You need a financial license to operate e-currency in all the countries( US, Europe, Asia, Australia as well). Most of the exchangers are out of law.

How many of them have a financial license? Maybe 3-4. So, if a GOV wants to "shut down" Bitcoin, they have to raid the exchangers and...done. :)

It's funny how the BTC media is trying to buzz about Bitcoin and exchangers but they don't say:

"OKcoin does not have financial license" or "Kraken is operating illegally in USA" or "how are BTC China/Lake BTC operating in China when the chinesse gov banned all the financial institutions to deal with exchangers?" or "Bitstamp is without financial license but they do operate in EU and USA..

It's well known that USA requires license if you want to deal with US citizens even the company is not based in USA.
We hear about a lot of money invested in these firms but we do not hear about REAL compliance which means financial license.

These are simple questions but the BTC media ignores them. Why? :)

WHALE @ 4 O`CLOCK (PST)!

What about this:

The Governments have NO RIGHT, let me repeat: NO RIGHT, to interfere with Bitcoin.

ha!  When did 'rights' ever stop Governments?

Just like they closed Guantanamo !!!!!

All powerful governments are a joke.

except the jokes on us... both parties repeat the same "promises", deliver nothing, and constantly shift the blame to a new "problem"

Stop me? lol, silly government.  :D

It just shows you how arrogant these people has become. I wonder if Jamie has ever thought who the governments represents? Answer : The People. Once the "Dinosaurs" of

the financial world seize to exist, Crypto currencies will replace them. He thinks the old saying, "Money is Power" is going to save them. He cannot be further from the truth.

The people has already spoken, and they not asking for private "permissioned" Blockchains or the status quo. They are asking for more transparent governments and financial

freedom.

It could be blocked, if the nodes end up as centralized as mining. They could send the military into the mining facilities now, but we still have the nodes across the world, but imagine if nodes were in big buildings too! That's why it's insane to raise block size unless it's the only, only, only solution.

They could stop it but in order to stop it they would have to set up such insane rules that they'd cause a revolution in the process anyway.  After a revolution a new government would form to actually serve the people since it would likely be built on blockchain technology - like how we see the UK already looking into this possibility.

I met this hilarious guy now and he's right! His government can stop Bitcoin! Just like they stop all other bad things in earth. :)
If they start to scare about you, now it's time. It's Bitcoin's time to shine baby!

This guy has been living the dream for so many years that he is out of touch with reality. He thinks he can stop anything, because he has so many millions on his bank account. They will fail to kill Bitcoin, just like they failed to kill BitTorrent, otherwise why do you think BitTorrent exists? It's not because they are nice, it's because they can't do shit about it.

Isn't this the same guy who thought bitcoin was going to fail? I am not worried one bit ;), Big banks, Corporations, Governments of foreign states have to realize that decentralization and open-sourced is the way to go whether they like it or not. :)

There is little chance of a country returning to the gold standard, short of a political and economic upheaval that isn't even on the horizon.

Being able to electronically create credit at will is the basis of the global economic system.  

I am not surprised at Dimon being dismissive of BTC.  It isn't big enough yet to even merit his attention.

At 10x present market cap, he would pay attention.  If it became a significant threat, he would be leading the charge for regulation or an outright ban.

Why do you think NY state requires Bitlicenses?  The banks have to buy money dealing licenses to trade Euro or Ringitt for dollars, so they argue:  why shouldn't someone have to buy a similar license to trade BTC?

I do think BTC will evade the grasp of the authoritarians and regulators, but there will be significant challenges if/when BTC/USD increases significantly in value.



 

I love his reasoning. Governments like to have control of their money supply. Since when has the government had any say in what the Fed does. The guy is either dumb or playing dumb.  ???

What about this: If Governments get too big, we will stop them!

So I'm not going to sit here and try and refute every part of what you just said by copy and pasting quotes all day long.  But here's the thing man.  Barack, in no way shape or form, has anything to do with what is being discussed.  But, for shits and gigs, let's just go with it for now.



I'm sorry man.. but what in the actual fuck are you talking about? I live in the US, and I can honestly say that there is no academic renaissance going on here.  I work in the technology field and I consider my self to be a very very small percentage of the work field.  Americans have been struggling in academics for a while now and are pretty low in education. 

I would guess and say that by now, probably over 40% of the jobs in the US are restaurant/service jobs just by them self.  Most people aren't white collar workers, rather, they are blue collar workers who are living pay check to pay check.

In fact... they can't even afford $500 readily, in case an emergency happens (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-handle-a-500-surprise-bill/)


Oh wow, rlly? ..


Hardly, I'm afraid...

Let bitcoin be the fall guy imo. Considering anyone can create a crypto currency these days more or less means we'd have another one spring up the next day.  Just like silk road and the other silk road copies. Then you get something even more robust like Open Bazaar.  Its an ongoing battle with humans trying to control chaos which is impossible.

I'd have to agree 100%.  College campuses are not (at least in my experience) teeming with intellectuals, great ideas or solutions to the worlds problems.  They are teeming with spoiled, mindless sheep, who are addicted to alcohol, cell phones and being told how to think.  They are mostly completely oblivious to political issues, and go along with whatever the current "popular" opinion is on any given topic.  I also find it funny how so many college age people are so interested in politics, but only in the few months leading up to an election.

Most degree holders now probably have much less common sense and life skills than say trade workers, and end up, like you said working retail, restaurants, etc.

http://puu.sh/mEmB7/8c408bb91d.jpg

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You're draining money off of bitcoin with advertisements plastered all over your account (which I'm not opposed to BTW), but then you say, basically, "F' bitcoin". Where is the loyalty?

That's like a New Yorker saying, "go ahead, let em' blow up and demolish the World Trade Center. They'll just build another one back in its place that's even stronger. What's the difference, we can't control anything."

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Exactly!  Which government. 

Ok, then replace "ban bitcoin" with "put exchange operators in jail for not having a financial licence".  Still the same scenario

I do enough promoting bitcoin to the world to make up for any minor rewards from bitcoin.  But anyway that is not important.

The world trade centre isn't a good metaphor since you cant very easy rebuild the damage of its destruction, you for sure cant rebuild the dead humans.

If someone created a better bitcoin tomorrow we would all switch and the damage would be much smaller. Still be damaging though yes but not like death and destruction on the WTC scale.

What do you think will happen many many years in the future when we evolve beyond not needing money? money will die, and at that point anyone trying to force everyone to keep money will been seen as the same financial terrorists that the banks/gov are now by us lot. Only reason to keep money could one day be to get first dibs on resource access right? If resources become easier to access over much time the demand for the design of money itself will drop or the demand could alter.

As i see it cypto currency is an evolution tool of humanity not just new better money.  One day we evolve beyond needing crypto. Nothing has ever stood still in history of human society evolution why would our generations be the ones to make things stand still?

Ha ha how a big thinker. On one hand he "predict" "that bitcoin as a currency is going nowhere". Then immediately after suggest (this is the key that can be laugh everyone) - attention - attention - "if it gets big - the government will stop it". After this monumental thought everyone has the right to ask (naturally to him): If bitcoin is going nowhere how is possible to gets big? How can become big something without value? How is possible that Government have interest to fight or to have fear from something that is going nowhere? How is possible that Government have on its attention something that is going nowhere? How is possible that such kinds of "heavy weights" make such kind of career? How is possible that such kind of idiots have such access to important medias and cannot be mocked after the "pearls" heard from them? Am I crazy who make such comments or are all those who hear such beings?

Who are these Governments he's speaking of? I see only the masses and a few greedy pigs.

when bitcoin is big, it is already part of the financial system and cant be banned anymore. additionally it will bring alot of improvements for society (like the internet).


@n2004al
 ;)

...not stopping, isolating is easier...

He's wrong. Bitcoin is unstoppable. If a few countries "ban" Bitcoin, there's still the rest of the world. The countries can not even all agree on something that they all find good... Also, the only restriction that a country can do is to forbide people to officially accept it as a way of payment in their shop. It can still be done secretly, and they will never be ready to censure the Internet to ban anything that is Bitcoin-related nor search on all the computers Bitcoin wallets.

This is true since Russia is seeing it as getting too big so they are wanting to outright ban it from their citizens from using it. They even have went as far as having their officials trying to pass a bill in government on this so you know they are serious.

Don't need to much to understand this. But this kind of interpretation is in vain to be discussed when is talked about persons like the personage in question. Is to complicated and this kind of person don't merit such high level of interpretation. It is enough a much more simple comment (like mine) of its words (without doing any kind of interpretation but only cited these) to show how kind of people manage the big finance on today's world. I really am amazed by these words and from the mouth of what kind of person were went out. How is possible to not be hit with rotten tomatoes when go at work or walk (if walk sometimes) on the streets?

This is a real issue because they could try to stop it by blocking access or saying it's illegal to use... the Bitcoin community should think about this thing unfortunately.

agree. Government can't do shi*. They need to "break" internet and implement FULL cencorship to be able to ban something like btc..

never underestimate your opponent.

Native Americans were decentralized at one time, the Government took care of them quite handily.

They have no intention of banning bitcoin - their intention is to infiltrate, regulate, co-opt, and control.

I fully agree with this point.

The situation may eventually turn out in several different ways.

Even if Unlimited succeeds, we have the backup plans. But this is going to be a major blow, because from the economic majority overtake there's only a little effort needed for full network takeover. Once the network is fully taken over, we've pretty much lost control. At that points all bets are off.

Sounds about right. They never want to look too tyrannical. Perception is everything.