Bitcoin Forum

Wendy's was just hacked and the hackers made off with an unknown number of credit cards (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/28/want-fries-with-your-identity-fraud.html). But noooo, Bitcoin is the preferred currency of criminal financial activity, amirite?

Due to anonymity of bitcoin transaction,it can be used for illegal activities but blaming bitcoin for this is like blaming fire if someone got burnt.It is the use that you put something to that is wrong or right

Bitcoin isn't actually that anonymous... You can track and trace where bitcoins go and how much, also you can possibly trace and identify who bought those bitcoins, and even scarier, could possibly get your CC info and personal info if you bought it from an exchange site like coinbase and coinbase ended up getting hacked.

Bitcoin is primarily pseudonymous, but it's a hell of a lot better than using debit cards/credit cards.

That is one of the biggest problem about credit cards indeed. Bitcoin is a good way to get around this shortcoming, but as long as the credit card fraud is covered by banks and insurances, and the people themselves do not get burned and keep getting their money back, people will be hesitant to change to bitcoin.


The anonimity thing is a completely different issue. Stolen credit cards can be used in the same way for illegal activities. The theives don't get burned and the ones who get their card stolen may suffer briefly before getting reimbursed.

Well, what do you think of Monero or DASH? Do you think their "improved" anonymity tools actually work?

Yeah, I really do think they work.  I hesitate bringing up alt coins on the "bitcoin discussion" section of the forum, because usually it brings out some anger towards my way.  Both do a very good job, as well as aeon... don't know much about boolberry though.  The reason why I own XMR only, though, is because it was fairly launched and wasn't ninjamined from the beginning.

The amount of sophistication and dedication of the core team is unreal.  They use ring signatures along with ring CT, that it is essentially pointless to try and find out who sent what, how much was sent, etc.  Here's the white paper for those who would like to read it (some of the stuff goes wayyyyy over my head though):

http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/Ring%20CT%20for%20Monero.pdf

Getting back on point though..


You've got a point... hiding your identity is not the point here, it's all about security.  And the fact of the matter is, is that Bitcoin has a real chance of being rendered less secure after the halving and people are forced to shut down their miners due to costs and not being able to afford the bills.

I don't really get it what happened after reading the article, did they have an exploit on their POS systems? Chip readers? Or do their equipments store sensitive information and were hacked?

And yes, Bitcoin would definitely solve this issue...

Theoretically, Bitcoin would be capable of solving the issue, but the fact of the matter is is that Bitcoin is not functionally capable of handling "fast"food transactions at all.  Think about it for a second.  There's been a constant debate about the block size and whether it should be bigger because blocks are being maxed out with more and more transactions going into each block, and that's just with us nerds.  Think about what would happen to the blocks if just one Wendy's location started accepting Bitcoin for payments during a lunch rush.  NO ONE would be able to get their transactions confirmed and it would take forever for Wendy's to be able to verify if the transaction went through or not... which would absolutely hurt their business.

This is one of the main reasons that major business and restaurants won't accept Bitcoin (at least the ones who have heard about Bitcoin and relatively understand the concepts behind it).

I was referring only to the aspect of private keys on the restaurant's side. That's not possible unless you explicitly give them the private key. However, ATM cards can be copied and passcodes retrieved.

As for the rest, yes, Bitcoin is not ready for prime time like that (not ready for Visa-like amount of TPS).

Despite that it would require some effort to double spend a transaction :D

That's why coinbase doesn't have my credit card info. Takes longer to buy coins but that's okay, they lock the rate when I click buy and start the bank transfer.

That is the thing that I hate about exchanges. You have to put all your details and ID just to buy some Bitcoin. But it is safe.

Well I mean, that's the thing though, it's hard to be able to buy bitcoins without having to use your debit/credit card on the site, which in turn is easy access to all of your personal info through the banks.  The only way to get around this fact is to use Bitcoin ATM's, which they are hardly enough of... Or you could go through localbitcoins, which to me is a little bit sketchy tactic of obtaining bitcoins.  The only bitcoin atms around where I'm at are only in big time major cities.  I think the closest one to me is about 5 or 4 hours away from me, which is very discouraging.

I think bitcoin remain anonymous, although many exchanges which require verification of identity, I think the exchange did not get into the room of bitcoin, you can still buy and sell bitcoin in someone

There was some talk about the USPS getting into bitcoin - I'm not sure if that is going to happen.

In the United States they have to because of money laundering issues but it is not a big deal for me. I don't use it because of the anonymity features, I use it because it puts me in control of my liquid assets.

You could buy bitcoins without giving identities on many exchanges, but maybe not on the big US based ones. I know of at least one fairly large exchange, where you could create an unverified account, and still be able to fund it with a bank draft or money order, and the way you buy that bank draft or money order can be almost anonymous. (Or at least, unverified.)

Once you have your coins, it's a simple matter of "tumbling" it, going through a bunch of other exchanges or alt-coins, or even having a little fun at satoshidice (or 64blocks.com, hehe, just had to plug my own.) Or you could do coin-join, coin-shuffle, or join-market, or something similar along those lines.

You may not have perfect anonymity, but it's pretty darned good enough. Coins remain fungible and secure. Once every few weeks, if you're not actively using them, just move your coins to different addresses.

I'm confused.. what's the exchange site that you're speaking of?  And I would think that even though you just submit a money order/bank draft or whatever, it would still link the exchange to your bank account, and thus your personal info.  I might be thinking about it in the wrong way though... I've never personally used a money order anywhere, because I've never needed to do so.

The ones in Europe and in Canada, and a few of them in Asia. At least the ones I've tried. Not going to mention which ones specifically. (Maybe I was just lucky?) I fly around a bit, but I'm mostly based in the Philippines, which have at least 3 or 4 exchanges you can almost anonymously buy coins from too.

I opened an account. Funded it using a draft / money order. Send it by mail. (Wait about a week.) You don't even need an account with some banks.

Then I tried coinbase. That also took a week, but needed a full identify. (Notice I did not say it needed *my* identity, just an identity.)

Yes, you could possibly be linked if you are careless, but since drafts / money orders are as good as cash, these exchanges did not need verified accounts, just an email address (which is a dime a dozen.) Using an old android phone you bought cash from some flea market type, and free public wifi in a library or fast food chain, you can create a free gmail account that does not need to be "phone verified". (And if they do need to verify, it's a matter of acquiring a sim card.)

At the same time, even if you don't buy coins anonymously, you can anonymize them very effectively in a short amount of time. For example, you don't need any account at all in order to play at some game sites, and you don't need an account to use shapeshift and bitin, and a lot of the alt-coin exchanges just need an email address. Not to mention the services which are specifically designed to mix coins. (Some give you newly mined coins in exchange for your old coins, less a fee.)

If you happen to hold more than 1000 BTC, that might be a problem, but it can still be done.

Bitcoin is perfect so far, as relatively anonymous payment system.
If you need more anonymity you can use other coins like Monaro Dash Cloak..
You can go to exchange and buy coin you want and transfer it fast..and again you can go back to Bitcoin that is power!
Bitcoin + Alts = Perfect system!

Yeah, if I wanted to truly hide the source of my coins, I would sell them for an altcoin at one exchange, and then sell the altcoin for bitcoin at a different exchange.

Right now I just buy from coin base and send them to cold addresses in 0.5 BTC increments that I import into bitcoin core when I need to use them. Easy for the feds or whoever to track my spending that way but I don't really care.

this is what i like about bitcoin you can not actually hack the instrument used for pay, i mean you can not steal any creedit/debit card details(security number, code etc...) and clone it, with bitcoin, because there is none

you need to steal the entire smart phone or the entire hardware wallet to steal bitcoin from someone in real life, which is more difficult of course

with credit card you can retrieve their credential and clone the card, without actually stealing the card itself and the game is settled, with bitcoin what do you do, steal the address? stupid...

And if someone steal from you your phone need to know password to log to 2fa
and that password is alway in your head, birthday or favorite song.. Bitcoin is super secure if we talking about stealing on the street but is very wobbly on line especially on exchanges!

He-he inserting a card reader into a machine is rare since people don't know when it has one in it but at least with Bitcoin your ID is not always at risk, only difference would be privacy vs a visa chargeback if someone hacks into your account, well unless you keep Bitcoins on an exchange then just hope its not Mintpal or instantwallet u.u.

Dear, every good thing has a darker side. But does that darker side takes over the good thing?????

Bitcoin may or ma not be used for illegal transactions, but does it really matter to everyone who is earning it in a right way??

Fiat is used in the majority of illegal transactions, but does it really lost its value??

leave all those behind and earn bitcoin for a better future.

Credit cards were not made for the internet and centralized data storages attract hackers like flies.
In the future crypto currencies will change this.Give it a few more years of development and credit cards for online payments will almost disappear.

credit cards are being hacked left and right on daily basis.
credit card fraud is the worst they steal the information and identity and use it for their own and you are left with the debt and the pain in the ass to prove it is not you.

I think the only people freaking out about anonymity are the ones doing ilegal stuff,right? Why should a normal citizen be concerned about it?

What you think and reality are two different things.

Normal citizens should be concerned about privacy because tracking has a huge impact on everyday life.

For example, legal items you buy with your credit card impact your credit rating, insurance rates, and could result in police taking an interest in you they have no right to take.

More than once, police have started watching houses because the resident spent money at hydroponics stores.

Hydroponics are legal, but are often used to grow marijuana. There was one case where a couple used hydroponics to grow herbs and spices, and they also enjoyed loose-leaf tea (as I do).

Because they made frequent purchases at a hydroponics store, the police were watching them. The police waited until garbage day, when they could look through the trash - legal to do without a warrant if the trash can is put out on the street. They mistook the loose leaf tea in the trash as marijuana clippings, and then raided the house with a swat team.

That's why people who are not involved in illegal activity should be concerned about privacy. Our law enforcement is out of control and looks at everyone as if they are a criminal, putting a possible criminal twist on legal purchases.

Credit cards are actually very safe as well. but because the credit card can be used only with general information such as name, date of birth that can be searched. bitcoin has better encryption of any payment. as long as you hold the bitcoin wallet.

these things happends all the time , just last week my girfriends credicard number got stolen and used.its not uncommon , but most news sites dont talk about it anymore since its so common

That's ok if you feel that way, we have been conditioned in every single nation pretty much to think that way. I can personally say I never do any illegal activity online (except maybe the occasional downloading of music... Not much any more though)... But that's besides the point.

Everyone should be concerned about their privacy. I always reference people who can't see my view point to this video of a TED talk, where this guy describes the importance of privacy. I think you should at least watch it before you assume people who want privacy are "criminals":

https://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters?language=en

Yeah that's freaking true...
I hate the tax on it now!! {Sigh}

Again and again this matter. Bitcoin is the preferred currency of all the trash of this world and as such must be protected by everyone who like it. I had a simple question: What about the money used by the trash before the invention of bitcoin? I haven't hear never, before the invention of bitcoin, to be discussed about the money used by them on every criminal activity. No one discussed at all about the money used by them. Not the newspaper and not everyone. Even less the Authorities. This kind of discussion began only after the creation of bitcoin. Why must give them importance? Why must discuss about this totally unreasonable connection? Why must try to give facts that bitcoin has nothing to do with the actions of the criminals because is only a tool exactly as are even all the other kind of real money, which for sure are used in every trash action (in which is used even bitcoin) because bitcoin can be used only at internet (and at the internet can be killed only the zeros and the ones) while the killing of people or the made of every criminal action is made at the real world where bitcoin cannot exist and all the power belongs to the other kind of money: the real ones? All this discussion don't make sense.

Pretty much the reason why I only use debit cards, w/c I load up whenever I need to buy something off the internet.

I agree and I'm really sorry that most people don't realze this. I think we need more simple and understandable texts and videos to show people the advantages of Bitcoin. Of course we'll probably never get rid of CCs but I'm sure many people will consider about what to use and will prefer Bitcoin.

If this was a bitcoin heist it would be slander after slander in articles.

This happens all the time. Nothing new here, this is a very common thing to see happening with credit cards.
A company gets hacked somehow and thieves steal all the important information and commit fraud.

Another iteration of "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Sure, AK47s with nanner' mags don't kill people by themselves, but sure come in handy in case you ever wanna do it.

This is why I do not use them ---> https://blog.coinbase.com/2016/01/28/shift-card-a-glimpse-under-the-hood/ .... You sacrifice a lot of your

private information, when you use them. They know how many times you bought McDonald's in a month and what you ordered online. My

question, Why do they need to know all of that? Is nothing private these days...?

Very good example of why debit/credit cards suck. If bitcoin was used, the criminals would get nothing but a list of addresses. (useless)

I don't think it's quite like that. Some miners would stop, then price would go up, and so forth... It's an equilibrated balance between btc price and number of miners. It's not like suddenly everyone would be forced to stop mining.

I am away in a foreign country. When I use my debit card to withdraw money from ATM, often the charge gets duplicated in my account and then refunded some days later. Pretty "functional" right? What if I needed that extra money?

Credit/debit cards are indeed not perfect.

 While using bitcoins is an excellent way to make your purchases, donations, and p2p payments, without losing money through inflated transaction fees, transactions are never truly anonymous. Bitcoin activities are recorded and available publicly via the blockchain; a comprehensive database which keeps a record of bitcoin transactions.

All exchanges require the user to scan ID documents, and large transactions must be reported to the proper governmental authority. When you use Bitcoin to pay for goods and services, you will of course need to provide your name and address to the seller for delivery purposes.

This means that a third party with an interest in tracking your activities can use your visible balance and ID information as a basis from which to track your future transactions or to study previous activity. In short, you have compromised your security and privacy.

Right in a way, I always think CreditCards is the most dangerous online payment method, You actually leave all the balance in every site you fill the details in. BTC needs some care just from you on your computer security etc...

I do not have credit card and PayPal account. To make online payment I find many difficulties without these things. But bitcoin solved my problems and that is the reason I love bitcoins.

Dangerous to who? Certainly not to you, because *chargeback*. With Bitcoin? Fat-finger an extra digit? Send to the wrong address? Get hacked? Ur monyz b gone :(

and this is the awesomenes of bitcoin,i know bitcoin cannot compare with credit card,but i think bitcoin is tottaly better than credit card,so far i never got hacked,and my bitcoin is very safe for now,and i dont hope i got hacked ;D

Which isn't very smart, IMO.  If they know how to get around tor and know how to manipulate their IP address so it would be impossible for anyone to track their location, that's one thing... but if they buy bitcoins using exchanges such as bitstamp, or worse, something like coinbase; then they could be potentially screwed because of the fact that your purchase can potentially be traced back to your bank account, and therefore your identity.

That's why we have mixers, dice sites, altcoin exchanges, and local bitcoin -- for the criminal in teh know :)

Forest friends!
Bambi lost his bitcoins in the blockchain public ledger, and also his Dad.
Can you help? Spot the woodland critter who don't belong!

http://s24.postimg.org/5qquozsbp/bambifollo1.gif

jk, Bitcoin's a honeypot.

i prefer to use bitcoin as its really fast and free

Yeah because of anonymity of bitcoin transactions, every person who will try to transact money as illegal they will use bitcoin. The criminal will definitely prefer that currency for money laundering, buying weapons and sell any stolen or hacked property. But there are lot good advantages to prefer bitcoin by me too...

Yeah, bitcoin is now taking its place as a major currency in the world, and its existence is due its interests of miners in mining bitcoin regardless of their profit or loss due to fluctuating bitcoin prices. Miners maintain bitcoin network's safety and integrity. It's not possible many miners stop at once. This may be a reason I prefer to use bitcoin.

CreditCards are too very vulnerable electronically even more than Bitcoin In my opinion, you actually insert the money in the card in every site you use to directly process payment.

With the experience that I have gained I feel that the improvement in domestic payment methods and the rapid development of alternative (non-cryptocurrency) forms of international transfers has reduced bitcoin’s advantage in this area, especially given its increasing fees and frequent network bottlenecks. Again, In some parts of the world, bitcoin is still a more efficient and cheaper way to transfer money across borders, and several remittance startups make use of this feature. Bitcoin’s cost and speed advantages, though, are being eroded as traditional channels improve (and the network’s fees continue to increase), and liquidity remains a problem in many countries. Also, a number of large and small retailers accept the cryptocurrency as a form of payment, although reports suggest that demand for this function is not high. And many individuals feel more comfortable holding a part of their wealth in securely-stored bitcoin, where a central authority cannot block access or take a cut.
Recently bitcoin seems to have assumed the role of investment asset, as traders, institutional investors and small savers have woken up to the potential gains from price appreciation.

The anonymity of bitcoins has really been exaggerated, why don’t people wonder why there has been a lot of services where people are able to mix their bitcoins to ensure their anonymity, of because was really that anonymous this kind of service would not be available.

I invest in the project KS monitor very satisfied and brings a good profit.