Bitcoin Forum

European Commission (EC) wants to strength its grip on anonymous payment systems such as Pre-Paid debt cards and digital currencies (Bitcoin / Ripple) this scheme would involve our (their) exchangs being forced to hand private user data OnDemand.

As you can see — the need for decentralised exchanges — has never been more important.

Of course they can't control users, but, the fact is the majority of liquidation within bit-ecosystem is from exchanges and if restrictions are placed on these services, then it would be as good as restricting the: purpose, reach, freedom, and strength offered by Bitcoin.

We were doing so good, going so straight, destroying so much, empowering so many, but somewhere along the line of success, we lost focus and indirectly started to make the use of centralised systems the norm when purchasing or selling bitcoins.

This needs to change. We need re-adjust the focus, and quickly. We know of some upcoming decentralised exchanges such OpenBazaar & bitsquare — if you know any existing & available de-exchanges please list them below — the purpose of bitcoin was not to re-introduce a new for of middle-men in the name of Coinbase or Xapo or in the form of BitLicense.


Soures: ec_virtual_currency_regulation_suggestion (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/03/ec_virtual_currency_regulation_suggestion/?mt=1454501362122)
Source: Schäuble calls register of bank accounts and Bitcoin control (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://m.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Terrorbekaempfung-Schaeuble-fordert-Bankkontenregister-und-Bitcoin-Kontrolle-3085841.html&usg=ALkJrhjOuW4kj8WORbPqR9ZuHKI2kbSvcA)

people have been asking for a decentralized exchange since a few years back, and it still haven't showed up. as far as i know it's nxt that has the only successful p2p decentralized exchange. i am not really that technical, but i would like to know what the reason is for not having a decentralized bitcoin exchange today. is it because it's difficult to incorporate fiat into the system? or is there an other reason?

"Another item the plan calls for is scrupulous consideration of all transactions between EU members and states known to be good spots for money-laundering."

 :-X

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1349944.0

It is possible to do this at least with LTC to BTC today (but not one person seems to have shown interest in it so I've ceased working on it for now).

My guess is that people are expecting a decentralised platform that currently isn't feasible (i.e. they expect "day-trading" suitable speed or that they somehow think this can work with fiat - which is not going to happen).

Maybe when LN is implemented it might be at least possible to do crypto-to-crypto trading fast (so there is perhaps some hope down the track for the concept).

the euro government are only going after FIAT exchanges.. its not a direct attack of bitcoin. but a FIAT compliance attack, that as a side affect touches bitcoin due to exchanges that also trade bitcoin.

the problem is that trying to make the fiat side of trading automated/fast/trusted, cannot be done that easily in a decentralised manner without losing the whole "day trading" advantage.

if you can put aside the day trading feature and just concentrate on the exchange broker feature, such as local bitcoins #bitcoin-otc. this can become more decentralized so that there isnt even a website/chatroom to gather brokers together. its possible but more cumbersome to find reputable brokers in seconds.

the community should concentrate more on making bitcoin more viable to not require "cashing out" back to fiat. that way the community wouldnt need to worry about handing over ID everytime they want to buy something, as they can do it via bitcoin direct.

im not so worried about exchanges such as coinbase and bitstamp becoming ID heavy, because they are very FIAT heavy so its logical to assume that they would require regulation. we may not like it, but when playing with their devil money we need to follow their rules.

my concern is things like bitpay needing peoples life story, which are subtly handling fiat in the background but it never touches the buyers hand.  or purse.io which is less subtle, as the fiat is in the giftcards.. but would still cause headaches for anyone just wanting to spend small amounts (similar to handling bank notes that laughably dont require ID to hold)

Hi CIYAM, please add any available links to your de-projects here. We need increase the awareness and purpose of de-exchanges because sooner or later they could be the only backbone bridging digital currencies to ensure their survival. I'm sure we could also collectively share resources and knowledge to make this dream a reality.

Other than the topic I referenced the CIYAM project itself is on github (https://github.com/ciyam/ciyam).

Currently work on a "memory-hard" proof algo is underway before being able to offer CIYAM as a decentralised application platform (which is what the project has been heading towards for the last year).

Also I have already created an ACCT Bitcoin script (based upon TierNolan's idea) using CLTV which others are free to use (currently the raw txs need to be created using CIYAM but it wouldn't be so hard to write a stand-alone tool for doing that).

This article does have a point but you should also look at both side of stories for instance since I only use online local exchanges now, they do require for us to provide our real government I.D, address, number and they do double check with the banks as well therefor as result they do know which address is for who and in case someone does act suspicious someday, they could track that person easily. Although this does put a direct restriction on what BTCitcoin was intended in the first place, it also increases the security of it and therefor eliminates criminals from using it.

How do decentralized exchanges handle fiat again?

I think making a legal and decentralized exchange website is not easy if at least not possible. The inclusion of fiat into sites may be the issue that the site owners and bankers may feel. I think while making a simply e-currency exchange site requires basic knowledge of API and its use.

localbitcoins.com proves it is possible to make quasi decentralised websites. but i think you are more on the mindset of daytrader exchanges, rather than broker exchanges

you may be right. There are fiat/coin exchanges and coin/coin "gateways". The fiat ones are hard to pull off.

Well I can only recall localbitcoins, but trust becomes an issue with decentralized exchange too. Like in cases where we have to meet up personally and exchange. But yeah, apart from that It makes me realize that localbitcoins has made it possible for me to purchase Bitcoins without having to furnish KYC/KML documents.

Pre-paid debit cards were used to avoid a number of government controls. The scrap metal dealers act in the UK was one such law. They were also used to fund various terrorist campaigns. It will be unfortunate if Bitcoin continues to be lumped in with them.

Unless people open their minds and understand that Bitcoin is all about "Decentralization" and they stop using Centralized exchanges ... we are not going anywhere .
If users stop using exchanges they will have to stop their services or transform into Decentralized systems wither they like it or not .

If the now decentralized exchanges get slapped with subpoenas to hand over some suspect's ID do you think they will just refuse? From decentralized to centralized in a matter of seconds.

your forgetting ripple that allowed exchanging on ripple. and when finally ready to cash out you would use things like bitstamp/kraken

but again localbitcoins/ripple are not perfect. localbitcoins is a little bit better at the trust, but still not perfect solutions to the FIAT swap decentralized idea

I used to travel to the US 3 or 4 times a year, and I used to buy my dollars from people in the exchange bank queues. It gave both of us a better deal. How long will it be before people start doing this with Bitcoin.

A decentralize exchange linked to Fiat is simply impossible... Who will be holding the fiat? I would want someone to explain to me how this could be possible.

I have been saying for a long time... All these 3rd party services {middle men} are not beneficial to Bitcoin, because they are the weak points. The centralized

3rd parties can be targeted to stop decentralized Crypto currencies. We will need to find a solution for that, or we will lose the war against regulations that are

aimed to stop certain Crypto currencies.

Option A:
1. Give your ID to bitstamp/kraken
2. Trade & cash out on bitstamp/kraken

Option B:
1. Trade via Ripple, the centralized decentralized solution
2. Give your ID to bitstamp/kraken
3. Cash out on bitstamp/kraken

Nice :)


Being done now. >>> Localbitcoins.com

the funny part of any FIAT handling, whether its direct daytrade exchange, indirectly via ripple or quasi decentralised by otc/brokers is this..
YOUR BANK still knows your life story.
even on bitstamp you dont need to hand over life history upfront. you can deposit bitcoins. and daytrade on ripple,etc and then withdraw bitcoin.
the only time you need life story is depositing and withdrawing fiat

the only true way of never connecting your ID would be prepaid debit cards that you can pick up at retail stores or gas stations using bank notes..
so all of the debates that fiat via wire transfer should be anonymous is a silly point to make. as its would never be anonymous.

you just need to accept that wire transfers wont ever be anonymous, and concentrate on ways to not even need fiat.

It's already happening.

I have accounts on most of the big exchanges, but rarely buy or sell directly from them. So my exchange accounts are "clean".

bitshares 2.0 is a decentralized exchange work in progress, i'm sure there is another, i forgot the name in this moment

Just pointing out that your suggestion to trade on decentralized exchanges & only use conventional ones to cash out simply adds a layer of inconvenience, without solving a thing.

>concentrate on ways to not even need fiat
Fiat is a tool. Bitcoin is a tool. What you're suggesting is not using screwdrivers by using only hammers.

my point is. "cashing out" is the thing that you cant do without LEGALLY providing ID.(though legit public exchanges)
so if you want bitcoin but dont want FIAT ID headaches. find ways to not need to "cashout" to fiat.

EG imagine your a British citizen and your prefered currency is Pound(analogy of btc). and the american dollar ramped up their KYC.. would you prefer to find ways around not needing ID. or ways to buy things with pounds without needing to touch the dollar..

ok lets flip it around(incase your american and hate my first example)
imagine your an American citizen and your prefered currency is dollar(analogy of btc). and the Chinese Yuan ramped up their KYC.. would you prefer to find ways around not needing ID. or ways to buy things with dollars without needing to touch the Yuan..

I don't understand. Aren't we discussing European exchanges ramping up KYC requirements (i.e. "now you must provide ID")? How can you "cash out" "without LEGALLY providing ID.(though legit public exchanges)"?