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Title: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 02:55:54 AM Hey all, After rereading this thread and thinking about whether this would work, I've concluded that while it would be a fun project, it would not succeed as a business, or as a security on an exchange like this. As some have pointed out: the profit margin simply isn't advantageous enough to produce enough revenue to make it worthwhile. So, I am returning all funds to shareholders via a dividend scheduled for noon today. And I'll just eat the 5btc asset creation fee. Thanks to everyone who supported this despite its rough start. I've learned from this that I should get a diverse opinion before jumping into something. I'll always be on the prowl for new projects and businesses! Best, Garrett Quote Shares are now trading! https://btct.co/security/CREATE[/s] Hey all, Let's face it: 3d printers are cool. I've wanted to own one for a while but I just don't have the extra money laying around. Surely some others have this same problem, or maybe you just don't want to deal with the technicalities of the machine, and you just want something that you can say you created. Either way, I am offering a solution via the BTC-TC exchange! 10,000 shares of the asset CREATE will be, apologies for my redundancy, created. I will keep a 10% stake in the project (as I have with my mining company Cognitive) and the remaining 9,000 shares will be sold at 0.04BTC each, which will raise roughly 350 coins. With this capital, one MakerBot Replicator™ 2X (http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2x.html) along with all of the base colors of ABS plastic wire for the printer will be purchased. Remaining funds will be held for future expenditure, whether it be for repairs, additional wire, etc. And here's the fun part: At any time, you can trade me 200 shares plus 200 * kg of wire used shares (I suspect this will be under 0.5kg for an average project) in exchange for a 3d printout of your own, mailed to you. This includes the shipping and other fees only if in the USA. Additionally, something for the future: I am considering creating a web site for this project, where people could purchase our printing power, and profits would be distributed as dividends. This would be brought up in a motion in the coming weeks. Why are we choosing this printer? Many people including myself believe it is the best available within our reasonable price range. Here are a few advantages it has: http://www.makerbot.com/faq/ Quote The MakerBot Replicator 2 Desktop 3D Printer is the easiest, fastest, and most affordable tool for making professional quality models. The MakerBot Replicator 2 sets a new standard in resolution and accuracy (true-to-life models) and build volume (size of model). Constructed with an industrial strength pressed steel frame, which has advantages for both form and function: the machine looks perfect in an office, lab, workbench, and even the living room and is durable enough to withstand high 3D printing speeds. Top features include:
As always: comments, questions, and criticism are welcomed. Cheers, Garrett Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 02:56:11 AM Updates:
Jan 16: Jan 17: Asset approved, shares will be sold this morning (before noon PST) for the specified 0.4 coins each. Jan 17: Shares are up for sale! https://btct.co/security/CREATE Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on January 17, 2013, 03:00:32 AM Hey all, Let's face it: 3d printers are cool. I've wanted to own one for a while but I just don't have the extra money laying around. Surely some others have this same problem, or maybe you just don't want to deal with the technicalities of the machine, and you just want something that you can say you created. Either way, I am offering a solution via the BTC-TC exchange! 10,000 shares of the asset CREATE will be, apologies for my redundancy, created. I will keep a 10% stake in the project (as I have with my mining company Cognitive) and the remaining 9,000 shares will be sold at 0.04BTC each, which will raise roughly 350 coins. With this capital, one MakerBot Replicator™ 2X (http://store.makerbot.com/replicator2x.html) along with all of the base colors of ABS plastic wire for the printer. Remaining funds will be held for future expenditure, whether it be for repairs, additional wire, etc. And here's the fun part: At any time, you can trade me 200 shares plus 200 * kg of wire used (I suspect this will be under 0.5kg for an average project) in exchange for a 3d printout of your own, mailed to you. This includes the shipping and other fees only if in the USA. Additionally, something for the future: I am considering creating a web site for this project, where people could purchase our printing power, and profits would be distributed as dividends. This would be brought up in a motion in the coming weeks. Why are we choosing this printer? Many people including myself believe it is the best available within our reasonable price range. Here are a few advantages it has: http://www.makerbot.com/faq/ Quote The MakerBot Replicator 2 Desktop 3D Printer is the easiest, fastest, and most affordable tool for making professional quality models. The MakerBot Replicator 2 sets a new standard in resolution and accuracy (true-to-life models) and build volume (size of model). Constructed with an industrial strength pressed steel frame, which has advantages for both form and function: the machine looks perfect in an office, lab, workbench, and even the living room and is durable enough to withstand high 3D printing speeds. Top features include:
As always: comments, questions, and criticism are welcomed. Cheers, Garrett Sounds pretty interesting although this seems more like an interest free loan.. where you then pay if you want to use the 3D printer. I'd suggest giving everyone a free printout (only charge for materials + shipping) once a month or so. [/list] Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Deprived on January 17, 2013, 03:10:21 AM Certainly a novel IPO.
If people trade in shares for a print-job is the plan to then resell the shares, to use it as a means to gradually buy the printer for yourself or some mix of the two (depending on your cash situation at the time)? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 03:21:54 AM Sounds pretty interesting although this seems more like an interest free loan.. where you then pay if you want to use the 3D printer. I'd suggest giving everyone a free printout (only charge for materials + shipping) once a month or so. [/list] I like that idea. How about something in the contract like: If you own 500 or more shares, you may choose to order one printout at-cost every thirty days. Sound good? Certainly a novel IPO. If people trade in shares for a print-job is the plan to then resell the shares, to use it as a means to gradually buy the printer for yourself or some mix of the two (depending on your cash situation at the time)? The plan is to eventually own the printer myself, either via people ordering prints or just buying back the shares. (But do not confuse this with a forced buyback. To clarify: There will NOT be a forced buyback clause for this company, and I will never perform one. As stated in the contract: I do have the ability to liquidate the assets and distribute the company's holdings among shareholders.) Thanks to both of you for the input. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: nebulus on January 17, 2013, 03:36:27 AM One print job per month? Sorry, but... lol
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 03:39:36 AM One print job per month? Sorry, but... lol I don't want to spend all my free time printing things for people :P So this seems reasonable to me, considering I'm giving free labor here! And to clarify, you can order as many prints as you want, and as frequent as you want when you purchase the print in exchange for shares. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: nebulus on January 17, 2013, 03:53:06 AM Aw, why not?
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 04:08:06 AM Aw, why not? If you're going to try to troll me, make it either funny, or stealthy enough for it to bypass my troll detector :P lol Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: 420 on January 17, 2013, 04:12:34 AM so where's the listing?
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 04:19:29 AM so where's the listing? It didn't show up for me at first, so I manually went to https://btct.co/security/CREATE and was able to vote. For those unfamiliar with the BTC-TC platform: that's the URL that it will trading on after five moderators have approved it. Cheers, Garrett Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: hanzac on January 17, 2013, 05:23:04 AM It's quite interesting, you'd better advertise it in your city or near, I'm sure that many people will need this convenient service. Because 3D printers are still rare, I think. It is quite useful to make tools or decorate home.
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 05:38:59 AM It's quite interesting, you'd better advertise it in your city or near, I'm sure that many people will need this convenient service. Because 3D printers are still rare, I think. It is quite useful to make tools or decorate home. For sure. I'll also be adding this to the list of things I bring up in bitcoin conversations haha. How much of the printer can the printer replicate? .... I have an idea here I think Probably not much. I think you have the RepRap in mind. It's a much lower grade printer, but it is almost entirely self replicable. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Kluge on January 17, 2013, 05:59:01 AM How much of the printer can the printer replicate? .... I have an idea here I think Could you imagine a company going to VCs and saying "we really want to make a printer so versatile and powerful, it can replicate itself entirely, and for 1/10 of what we'll be charging!" I think it'll take a 3d printer company advertising it's able to replicate another company's printer to set that clusterfuck in motion... :DWithout proof-of-concept, I'm having trouble imagining what kind of dividends the project could bring in. If an "average" project were to take .5kg of wire, wouldn't that indicate the fee to print is effectively ~$170? At a minimum, it'd cost 200*.04=8BTC, or ~$120, which is effectively just the service fee for you to print something. Will you be charging non-shareholders more for this service? My imagination's fairly limited and I haven't looked through the databases of open-source designs. What could be produced by the Makerbot justifying a $170 price tag? I'd suggest # of shares owned corresponds to a discount in using the service, up to some maximum. So, if you owned, say, 1k or more shares, you get a 100% discount on the service fee (but not material costs). 500 shares would equal a 50% discount, 100 shares 10% discount, and so on. Alternately, perhaps you should have to pay the company to personally use the makerbot at the same rate you'd charge them. When a shareholder pays 200 shares as a service fee, are those profits distributed to the shareholders as a dividend? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: odolvlobo on January 17, 2013, 07:11:15 AM You need to have a provision in case you can't sell enough shares to buy the equipment. Something like, "if 9000 shares are not sold by 2/28/13, all shares will be bought back for the IPO price, and the security will be delisted." This will assure people that you aren't going to keep their money forever if the project doesn't get off the ground.
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: pieppiep on January 17, 2013, 08:11:01 AM How much of the printer can the printer replicate? .... I have an idea here I think Could you imagine a company going to VCs and saying "we really want to make a printer so versatile and powerful, it can replicate itself entirely, and for 1/10 of what we'll be charging!" I think it'll take a 3d printer company advertising it's able to replicate another company's printer to set that clusterfuck in motion... :DTitle: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 02:18:38 PM You need to have a provision in case you can't sell enough shares to buy the equipment. Something like, "if 9000 shares are not sold by 2/28/13, all shares will be bought back for the IPO price, and the security will be delisted." This will assure people that you aren't going to keep their money forever if the project doesn't get off the ground. I agree, so I added a similar statement: If adequate funds to purchase the specified printer are not raised by March 30th 2013, all shares will be bought back for the IPO price, and the security will be delisted. How much of the printer can the printer replicate? .... I have an idea here I think Could you imagine a company going to VCs and saying "we really want to make a printer so versatile and powerful, it can replicate itself entirely, and for 1/10 of what we'll be charging!" I think it'll take a 3d printer company advertising it's able to replicate another company's printer to set that clusterfuck in motion... :DWithout proof-of-concept, I'm having trouble imagining what kind of dividends the project could bring in. If an "average" project were to take .5kg of wire, wouldn't that indicate the fee to print is effectively ~$170? At a minimum, it'd cost 200*.04=8BTC, or ~$120, which is effectively just the service fee for you to print something. Will you be charging non-shareholders more for this service? My imagination's fairly limited and I haven't looked through the databases of open-source designs. What could be produced by the Makerbot justifying a $170 price tag? I'd suggest # of shares owned corresponds to a discount in using the service, up to some maximum. So, if you owned, say, 1k or more shares, you get a 100% discount on the service fee (but not material costs). 500 shares would equal a 50% discount, 100 shares 10% discount, and so on. Alternately, perhaps you should have to pay the company to personally use the makerbot at the same rate you'd charge them. When a shareholder pays 200 shares as a service fee, are those profits distributed to the shareholders as a dividend? I like your idea. Will edit the contract accordingly when I get a chance this morning. Shares will be for sale by noon PST! Thanks to everyone for your interest and feedback :) Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 03:08:22 PM Alright, the contract has been revised, and I'm ready to list the shares. There's a BTC-TC database error preventing me from viewing the issuing account's portfolio, so as soon as Burnside fixes that the shares will be listed.
Cheers, Garrett Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: burnside on January 17, 2013, 05:55:30 PM Alright, the contract has been revised, and I'm ready to list the shares. There's a BTC-TC database error preventing me from viewing the issuing account's portfolio, so as soon as Burnside fixes that the shares will be listed. Cheers, Garrett Query error is fixed. The ask order is up. ;) Cheers. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Peter Lambert on January 17, 2013, 07:20:29 PM Sounds interesting.
Will this be generating income, so just holding the shares will yield a dividend, or is the only reason to buy shares if you want to get a printinting? Will you allow people to order printings by paying with btc, or is the only way to get printings to purchase and turn in shares? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 17, 2013, 07:37:54 PM Sounds interesting. Will this be generating income, so just holding the shares will yield a dividend, or is the only reason to buy shares if you want to get a printinting? Will you allow people to order printings by paying with btc, or is the only way to get printings to purchase and turn in shares? As of now, I plan to create a web site where people can order 3d prints in exchange for bitcoins, and the revenue from this will be distributed as dividends. I'm about to register a domain, then once the site is operational I will raise a motion to start selling printouts there. Until then, owning and exchanging shares are the only way to get a print. The lead time for these printers is eight weeks so the sooner we get it paid for the better! Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: camolist on January 18, 2013, 09:04:16 AM checking this out.
not up to date on these printers yet but if it can do the following at reasonable prices you will be getting a money printing machine.. http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/01/14/gunsmiths-3d-print-high-capacity-ammo-clips-to-thwart-proposed-gun-laws/ lots to catch up on and maybe get some shares before it's sold out xD Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Factory on January 18, 2013, 04:49:16 PM Two questions:
If the machine breaks and there are no safety measures in place, investors are going to left out in the cold. Something to think about. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: btharper on January 18, 2013, 06:45:53 PM Any comments about the pricing of prints? It seems like basing it directly off of share count exchanged (if share price doesn't become tied to BTC/USD or other larger currency for some other reason) could lead to extremely high prices for printing.
Going directly off of the prices from the site you linked to one kg of plastics of $48USD and a share price at 0.04 BTC you end up making 16% of the cost per USD/BTC. Break even (on materials only, assuming no loss because of how the machine works) happens at $6/BTC, at current prices of $15/BTC you're able to make a 150% profit just from the materials cost. Adding in the processing cost increases this even more, but is reduced some by shipping and labor costs. tl;dr - should this be priced in USD (or other "normal" currency) and then paid for in shares? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: SgtSpike on January 18, 2013, 07:22:30 PM I'll be honest and say that this seems quite overpriced IMO. If I wanted to print out a 1 lb object (about 0.5kg), it'd cost me 300 shares. 300 shares @ 0.04 BTC ea = 12 BTC, or about $190. Worse, I'm giving you an interest free loan for the entire period until I actually want to use my shares for a printout.
OTOH, if I go to Shapeways, I can print things starting at about $10.00, with most models in the neighborhood of $20.00 - $50.00. Buying shares in this printer doesn't designate actual ownership in anything - it is only an overpriced preorder for 3D printing services down the road. I think it's a neat idea, but you should offer 3D printing services for BTC rather than giving people a false sense of ownership in a 3D printer. Or, if you want to give them partial ownership, then create a business plan around making pieces for other people, and offer shareholders some of the profit. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: ahdinosaur on January 18, 2013, 08:48:47 PM if you want a decent 3d printer, i'd recommend http://typeamachines.com/.
as with the fund, i think it's a great idea, but i wouldn't invest until you had a usable website to buy prints where investors get dividends of the profits. for now it just seems like you want to buy a hot new 3d printer, oh and maybe you could use it for something, especially worrisome if you don't have experience in 3d printers. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 18, 2013, 10:05:09 PM Hey guys,
I agree with most of the above. The business model definitely does need to be restructured, and since btc price keeps soaring upwards, the cost of printing via the current contract is definitely overpriced. I will post back later with a new business plan, which will include USD pricing for prints, and should turn this into more of a company :) Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza on January 18, 2013, 10:45:39 PM Is it going to be like this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55102.0
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Peter Lambert on January 18, 2013, 10:53:39 PM Hey guys, I agree with most of the above. The business model definitely does need to be restructured, and since btc price keeps soaring upwards, the cost of printing via the current contract is definitely overpriced. I will post back later with a new business plan, which will include USD pricing for prints, and should turn this into more of a company :) Maybe you should halt trading on BTCT until you figure out what exactly you are selling? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Deprived on January 18, 2013, 11:09:48 PM Hey guys, I agree with most of the above. The business model definitely does need to be restructured, and since btc price keeps soaring upwards, the cost of printing via the current contract is definitely overpriced. I will post back later with a new business plan, which will include USD pricing for prints, and should turn this into more of a company :) Maybe you should halt trading on BTCT until you figure out what exactly you are selling? You mean like you halted all trading on your securities (and disappeared, and deleted all records and disowned all responsibility)? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=35775.200 Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Mushroomized on January 19, 2013, 01:57:04 AM aw ;-;
Buy a Printr bot instead, its cheaper and the same quality. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: MPOE-PR on January 19, 2013, 08:30:29 AM I think it's a neat idea, as with the fund, i think it's a great idea Why in the heck do you folks think that? It's not either a neat idea or a great idea. It's not even an idea. It's fucking stupid, and that's all it is. This is the exact sort of nonsense GLBSE embodied, except it's a little late to the party. "Oh, there's this cool thing other people do, let's you buy me one of the retail items those other people market and we call it a company". What, maybe the cool of 3d printing brushes off on some random idiot that's not doing anything even vaguely related to it? (Yes dood, you're not "doing" 3d printing, you're doing GLBSE scamming, and six to eighteen months late to boot. 3d printing is just the angle, that's all. Yes, yes, I know, you didn't mean to. Guess what people who don't mean to do what they're doing are called.) Garr: start here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0). Apparently you've made 2000 posts for no benefit whatsoever, you're mentally below the average noob. Try reading 2000 posts instead, maybe that works better. "Soaring upwards" a horse's arse pfff. And if any of the BTCT "moderator"-idiots wish to explain yourselves, here's open mic. Start with "I approved this so called security because I am an idiot and I was confused by..." and fill in the blanks. What's next, a "security" to buy PMBs (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/) and "invest" the "dividends" into lottery tickets? A "security" to make clay mugs? Or let me guess, those were taken already. Heads, people. Heads are for thinking with. Try it sometime. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 19, 2013, 08:43:10 AM Why in the heck do you folks think that? It's not either a neat idea or a great idea. It's not even an idea. It's fucking stupid, and that's all it is. This is the exact sort of nonsense GLBSE embodied, except it's a little late to the party. "Oh, there's this cool thing other people do, let's you buy me one of the retail items those other people market and we call it a company". What, maybe the cool of 3d printing brushes off on some random idiot that's not doing anything even vaguely related to it? (Yes dood, you're not "doing" 3d printing, you're doing GLBSE scamming, and six to eighteen months late to boot. 3d printing is just the angle, that's all. Yes, yes, I know, you didn't mean to. Guess what people who don't mean to do what they're doing are called.) Garr: start here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0). Apparently you've made 2000 posts for no benefit whatsoever, you're mentally below the average noob. Try reading 2000 posts instead, maybe that works better. "Soaring upwards" a horse's arse pfff. And if any of the BTCT "moderator"-idiots wish to explain yourselves, here's open mic. Start with "I approved this so called security because I am an idiot and I was confused by..." and fill in the blanks. What's next, a "security" to buy PMBs (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/) and "invest" the "dividends" into lottery tickets? A "security" to make clay mugs? Or let me guess, those were taken already. Heads, people. Heads are for thinking with. Try it sometime. Let's not be hypocritical. And does anyone agree with this guy? Regardless (assuming the answer is a "no"), a new plan is on its way :P Also, I spell out my projects very clearly, so investors/customers know exactly what they're getting into. I'm not forcing anyone to like it or me; I'm just generally polite and straight forward. Try it sometime. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Justin00 on January 19, 2013, 09:08:37 AM .
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: MPOE-PR on January 19, 2013, 09:37:06 AM Why in the heck do you folks think that? It's not either a neat idea or a great idea. It's not even an idea. It's fucking stupid, and that's all it is. This is the exact sort of nonsense GLBSE embodied, except it's a little late to the party. "Oh, there's this cool thing other people do, let's you buy me one of the retail items those other people market and we call it a company". What, maybe the cool of 3d printing brushes off on some random idiot that's not doing anything even vaguely related to it? (Yes dood, you're not "doing" 3d printing, you're doing GLBSE scamming, and six to eighteen months late to boot. 3d printing is just the angle, that's all. Yes, yes, I know, you didn't mean to. Guess what people who don't mean to do what they're doing are called.) Garr: start here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0). Apparently you've made 2000 posts for no benefit whatsoever, you're mentally below the average noob. Try reading 2000 posts instead, maybe that works better. "Soaring upwards" a horse's arse pfff. And if any of the BTCT "moderator"-idiots wish to explain yourselves, here's open mic. Start with "I approved this so called security because I am an idiot and I was confused by..." and fill in the blanks. What's next, a "security" to buy PMBs (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/) and "invest" the "dividends" into lottery tickets? A "security" to make clay mugs? Or let me guess, those were taken already. Heads, people. Heads are for thinking with. Try it sometime. Let's not be hypocritical. And does anyone agree with this guy? Regardless (assuming the answer is a "no"), a new plan is on its way :P Also, I spell out my projects very clearly, so investors/customers know exactly what they're getting into. I'm not forcing anyone to like it or me; I'm just generally polite and straight forward. Try it sometime. So you're polite. Go sell shares in it, why don't you. And for that matter, who even says you're allowed to substantially change the contract midgame? Eh? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Peter Lambert on January 19, 2013, 01:27:47 PM Why in the heck do you folks think that? It's not either a neat idea or a great idea. It's not even an idea. It's fucking stupid, and that's all it is. This is the exact sort of nonsense GLBSE embodied, except it's a little late to the party. "Oh, there's this cool thing other people do, let's you buy me one of the retail items those other people market and we call it a company". What, maybe the cool of 3d printing brushes off on some random idiot that's not doing anything even vaguely related to it? (Yes dood, you're not "doing" 3d printing, you're doing GLBSE scamming, and six to eighteen months late to boot. 3d printing is just the angle, that's all. Yes, yes, I know, you didn't mean to. Guess what people who don't mean to do what they're doing are called.) Garr: start here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0). Apparently you've made 2000 posts for no benefit whatsoever, you're mentally below the average noob. Try reading 2000 posts instead, maybe that works better. "Soaring upwards" a horse's arse pfff. And if any of the BTCT "moderator"-idiots wish to explain yourselves, here's open mic. Start with "I approved this so called security because I am an idiot and I was confused by..." and fill in the blanks. What's next, a "security" to buy PMBs (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/) and "invest" the "dividends" into lottery tickets? A "security" to make clay mugs? Or let me guess, those were taken already. Heads, people. Heads are for thinking with. Try it sometime. And does anyone agree with this guy? Regardless (assuming the answer is a "no"), a new plan is on its way :P Also, I spell out my projects very clearly, so investors/customers know exactly what they're getting into. I'm not forcing anyone to like it or me; I'm just generally polite and straight forward. He does bring up a number of valid points. I would like to see a full business plan before I invest any money into this. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Mushroomized on January 19, 2013, 04:07:00 PM I think you should focus more on generating profits to expand the operation, buying new printers, printer parts for new printers then purchasing the electronics, etc. Then use software like BOTFARM to be able to control a multiple number of incoming jobs across your printer farm. Otherwise I see this as kind of a shady investment, while the end outcome of you owning a printer and leaving.
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Bugpowder on January 19, 2013, 05:52:43 PM I think it's a neat idea, as with the fund, i think it's a great idea Garr: start here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0). Apparently you've made 2000 posts for no benefit whatsoever, you're mentally below the average noob. Try reading 2000 posts instead, maybe that works better. "Soaring upwards" a horse's arse pfff. Heads, people. Heads are for thinking with. Try it sometime. Hey, cut him some slack, he is still in high school! Just learning the ropes! http://admitmeplease.org/ Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: burnside on January 19, 2013, 06:07:36 PM I think it's a neat idea, as with the fund, i think it's a great idea Garr: start here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.0). Apparently you've made 2000 posts for no benefit whatsoever, you're mentally below the average noob. Try reading 2000 posts instead, maybe that works better. "Soaring upwards" a horse's arse pfff. Heads, people. Heads are for thinking with. Try it sometime. Hey, cut him some slack, he is still in high school! Just learning the ropes! http://admitmeplease.org/ I think MPOE-PR occasionally forgets that BTC-TC != MPEX. There's not a seasoned wall street professional at the top of the stack dictating things, so you definitely have to be more careful about what you buy into. The community mods vote according to their intuition and whatever other motivating factors they might have, but the end result is that for the most part the community gets what the community asks for. Personally, I think the printer idea is a great one, but the business plan needs some work. I'm latching onto the website/selling prints possibilities, not so much the buying of shares to get my own prints. But the possibilities there I think are pretty good. You're not going to get crazy rich, but could definitely make a steady profit with a good setup. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: usagi on January 19, 2013, 06:10:12 PM Hey guys, I agree with most of the above. The business model definitely does need to be restructured, and since btc price keeps soaring upwards, the cost of printing via the current contract is definitely overpriced. I will post back later with a new business plan, which will include USD pricing for prints, and should turn this into more of a company :) Frankly I think this is a terrible business idea. However, as a LTC-GLOBAL shareholder I don't see why he can't list. 1. It's not our job to try and predict the future about what business can and can't be successful. 2. If it succeeds or fails, it will at least generate trading revenue for me, as a shareholder. 3. Garr has the right to try and make his business successful. I believe that. So whatever I think doesn't enter into it. I say let him try. Garr is attempting to be a producer here, and run a real business vs. just another miner (or worse, fund). Sure there is room for more miners and more funds. But we also need producers and I think that sets this apart from the vast majority of new business ideas around here. I say kudos to Garr. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Monster Tent on January 19, 2013, 09:57:28 PM Hey guys, I agree with most of the above. The business model definitely does need to be restructured, and since btc price keeps soaring upwards, the cost of printing via the current contract is definitely overpriced. I will post back later with a new business plan, which will include USD pricing for prints, and should turn this into more of a company :) Is there any indication that a 3d printer can make any sort of profit at all ? Its fine if you have one in your garage and all but creating a business with investors is a different ball game. I believe this "security" belongs on kickstarter rather than a stock exchange and wouldnt approve it because of the lack of financial projections etc. Maybe the site needs a new section for these types of projects because calling them "stocks" is laughable. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: odolvlobo on January 20, 2013, 01:42:10 AM And if any of the BTCT "moderator"-idiots wish to explain yourselves, here's open mic. Start with "I approved this so called security because I am an idiot and I was confused by..." I approved this so-called security because MPOE-PR is a troll (or more precisely, a dick). It is plainly obvious that his posts fall into one of the following categories:
Actually, I voted for it because although it is unusual, it is simple and straightforward. I think it is a better fit for kickstarter, but that doesn't mean it won't work on BTC-TC. Keep in mind that the idea is not to create a business. The idea is that if you want something made on a 3D printer, you can help Garr buy one and he will make it for you. On the other hand, it looks like Garr is now leaning toward turning it into a business, which I think has a lower probability of success. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: MPOE-PR on January 20, 2013, 08:33:32 AM Hey, cut him some slack, he is still in high school! Just learning the ropes! http://admitmeplease.org/ Not like reading the straight dope on some forum ever physically hurt anyone, you know. There's not a seasoned wall street professional at the top of the stack dictating things, so you definitely have to be more careful about what you buy into. The community mods vote according to their intuition and whatever other motivating factors they might have, but the end result is that for the most part the community gets what the community asks for. Being critical is just another free service I provide. If one in ten of those mods reads this and goes hmm...we're already +EV. And if any of the BTCT "moderator"-idiots wish to explain yourselves, here's open mic. Start with "I approved this so called security because I am an idiot and I was confused by..." I approved this so-called security because MPOE-PR is a troll (or more precisely, a dick). It is plainly obvious that his posts fall into one of the following categories:
Actually, I voted for it because although it is unusual, it is simple and straightforward. I think it is a better fit for kickstarter, but that doesn't mean it won't work on BTC-TC. Keep in mind that the idea is not to create a business. The idea is that if you want something made on a 3D printer, you can help Garr buy one and he will make it for you. On the other hand, it looks like Garr is now leaning toward turning it into a business, which I think has a lower probability of success. No, really, you approved this because I'm a meanie? More power to you. PS. Why's everyone calling me he, what conspiracy is this! Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: danieldaniel on January 20, 2013, 02:48:03 PM Hmm... I have access to a free 3d printer (replicator). My guess is that it costs like $0.50 to print the average small project.
I don't think that this will work as a business. Bigger companies like Shapeways will always be able to be cheaper than you. The only way for this to be profitable is to mass-print. I agree with others that this is more fit for a Kickstarter. You could offer free prints as rewards. You'd have to come up with a clear goal for KS though. Maybe you could have a specific project in mind? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 20, 2013, 07:56:52 PM Hey all,
After rereading this thread and thinking about whether this would work, I've concluded that while it would be a fun project, it would not succeed as a business, or as a security on an exchange like this. As some have pointed out: the profit margin simply isn't advantageous enough to produce enough revenue to make it worthwhile. So, I am returning all funds to shareholders via a dividend scheduled for noon today. And I'll just eat the 5btc asset creation fee. Thanks to everyone who supported this despite its rough start. I've learned from this that I should get a diverse opinion before jumping into something. I'll always be on the prowl for new projects and businesses! Best, Garrett Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: danieldaniel on January 20, 2013, 08:03:58 PM Hey all, I think this holds the record for fastest security failure! :DAfter rereading this thread and thinking about whether this would work, I've concluded that while it would be a fun project, it would not succeed as a business, or as a security on an exchange like this. As some have pointed out: the profit margin simply isn't advantageous enough to produce enough revenue to make it worthwhile. So, I am returning all funds to shareholders via a dividend scheduled for noon today. And I'll just eat the 5btc asset creation fee. Thanks to everyone who supported this despite its rough start. I've learned from this that I should get a diverse opinion before jumping into something. I'll always be on the prowl for new projects and businesses! Best, Garrett Anyways, I think you're right. It was fun while it lasted. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 20, 2013, 08:14:07 PM I think this holds the record for fastest security failure! :D Anyways, I think you're right. It was fun while it lasted. Haha, I'd make the argument that it never really started :P Ahh well, failure is healthy, right? Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Littleshop on January 20, 2013, 08:17:25 PM Hey all, After rereading this thread and thinking about whether this would work, I've concluded that while it would be a fun project, it would not succeed as a business, or as a security on an exchange like this. As some have pointed out: the profit margin simply isn't advantageous enough to produce enough revenue to make it worthwhile. So, I am returning all funds to shareholders via a dividend scheduled for noon today. And I'll just eat the 5btc asset creation fee. Thanks to everyone who supported this despite its rough start. I've learned from this that I should get a diverse opinion before jumping into something. I'll always be on the prowl for new projects and businesses! Best, Garrett I think there is a business model there, but maybe not as a security. If you have the cash and wanted a 3D printer, buying one and leasing it out could make money. And of course the twist is that you can accept BTC as payment for items. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: burnside on January 20, 2013, 08:53:27 PM Hey all, After rereading this thread and thinking about whether this would work, I've concluded that while it would be a fun project, it would not succeed as a business, or as a security on an exchange like this. As some have pointed out: the profit margin simply isn't advantageous enough to produce enough revenue to make it worthwhile. So, I am returning all funds to shareholders via a dividend scheduled for noon today. And I'll just eat the 5btc asset creation fee. Thanks to everyone who supported this despite its rough start. I've learned from this that I should get a diverse opinion before jumping into something. I'll always be on the prowl for new projects and businesses! Best, Garrett Probably best to use the forced buyback. That way all the shares end up back in the issuer account. Cheers. Edit/Add: When you're logged in as the asset issuer it's at the bottom of the trade page. Edit/Add #2: Heh, I was too late, I see the div on there. No worries, you can still force buyback for 0.0001 or something. :) Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: Garr255 on January 20, 2013, 09:40:47 PM I think there is a business model there, but maybe not as a security. If you have the cash and wanted a 3D printer, buying one and leasing it out could make money. And of course the twist is that you can accept BTC as payment for items. Yes that would be a much more simplistic approach, and if I don't start that business, I'd like to see someone do it! Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: hanzac on January 21, 2013, 12:49:25 AM I think it's a good idea. If you have interest and time, maybe you can start with build a 3d-printer by yourself, it won't cost much. Because currently, it's a fresh thing and it's expensive when you buy a full-fludged product.
I also think if you can build 3d-printers, this will be a better idea just selling the printers. It's much more profitable. ;) Then you can sell the shares of your capability, maybe start a company, then IPO and selling the stocks. Although, it competes with MakerBot, but it will be much more fun. Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: 420 on March 07, 2013, 06:32:36 AM did this go anywhere?
Title: Re: Own a part of a 3d printer! CREATE on [BTC-TC] Post by: poly on March 07, 2013, 07:10:20 AM did this go anywhere? Nope, CREATE has being cancelled: Quote Hey all, After rereading this thread and thinking about whether this would work, I've concluded that while it would be a fun project, it would not succeed as a business, or as a security on an exchange like this. As some have pointed out: the profit margin simply isn't advantageous enough to produce enough revenue to make it worthwhile. So, I am returning all funds to shareholders via a dividend scheduled for noon today. And I'll just eat the 5btc asset creation fee. Thanks to everyone who supported this despite its rough start. I've learned from this that I should get a diverse opinion before jumping into something. I'll always be on the prowl for new projects and businesses! Best, Garrett |