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Title: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 23, 2016, 08:32:29 PM Ok folks. I started winning big at SafeDice.com late last week. I am currently up almost 48BTC. I've withdrawn about 30BTC as of this morning before the hot wallet was dry again.
Just within the past hours, there has been some very flaky behavior on the site regarding rolls. I was doing my variation on martingale when I noticed I would click roll but no result would come back. So I'd refresh the page just to make sure it wasn't an issue with my browser not displaying the result. Sure enough, there was no roll. I would click roll a few more times and it would go through finally. Some seemed fishy, so I checked the roll details of my rolls. Please see the results of my investigation here: http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ (http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ). Also a link to the 3rd party roll verifier: here (https://dicesites.com/safedice/verifier?ss=E9Ak56hwr3EvwlBwAMzwipvCbbOYIV0IXmGl5vErkLeqosDOb7&cs=02454927109c609&ln=3030&n=1&ssh=02454927109C6099418CBC7AB5A62B2513C4BC570D743AF48CE86447D4863D2BD351C6F785E1404FFC4A3D93EB112BA3AF27DB2214398CCD45C1185BC4915FC7) Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: Lutpin on February 23, 2016, 08:40:31 PM So between bet 98190081 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190081) and bet 98190403 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190403) SafeDice is skipping nonces from 2993 to 3030?
Having a closer look, they aint. There are bets of yours missing in your history. 98190085 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190085) has the expected nonce (2994), but is a 0 value (winning) bet. 98190091 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190091) has the nonce after that (2995), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet. 98190100 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190100) with the next nonce (2996), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet. I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me), or if it's just a bug for you. But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 23, 2016, 08:45:51 PM So between bet 98190081 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190081) and bet 98190403 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190403) SafeDice is skipping nonces from 2993 to 3030? Those aren't rolls that I made. I am doing martingale and never rolled "0". They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot).Having a closer look, they aint. There are bets of yours missing in your history. 98190085 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190085) has the expected nonce (2994), but is a 0 value (winning) bet. 98190091 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190091) has the nonce after that (2995), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet. 98190100 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190100) with the next nonce (2996), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet. I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me), or if it's just a bug for you. But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: Lutpin on February 23, 2016, 08:49:24 PM Those aren't rolls that I made. I am doing martingale and never rolled "0". They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot). I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug. I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side. If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: Mumbeeptind1963 on February 23, 2016, 08:49:38 PM I encounter this too in PD but just once.
my bet is low anyway. martingale is the method im playing too. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: NUFCrichard on February 23, 2016, 08:53:09 PM Ok folks. I started winning big at SafeDice.com late last week. I am currently up almost 48BTC. I've withdrawn about 30BTC as of this morning before the hot wallet was dry again. Just within the past hours, there has been some very flaky behavior on the site regarding rolls. I was doing my variation on martingale when I noticed I would click roll but no result would come back. So I'd refresh the page just to make sure it wasn't an issue with my browser not displaying the result. Sure enough, there was no roll. I would click roll a few more times and it would go through finally. Some seemed fishy, so I checked the roll details of my rolls. Please see the results of my investigation here: http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ (http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ). Also a link to the 3rd party roll verifier: here (https://dicesites.com/safedice/verifier?ss=E9Ak56hwr3EvwlBwAMzwipvCbbOYIV0IXmGl5vErkLeqosDOb7&cs=02454927109c609&ln=3030&n=1&ssh=02454927109C6099418CBC7AB5A62B2513C4BC570D743AF48CE86447D4863D2BD351C6F785E1404FFC4A3D93EB112BA3AF27DB2214398CCD45C1185BC4915FC7) If they are proveable fair, then they can't be rigging the dice. It sounds like they have been having software problems, I would at least wait it out until they look into it. It is of course possible that you have either found a flaw, or they are in trouble so decided to start messing with the fairness, but I doubt that is the case. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 23, 2016, 08:54:54 PM So between bet 98190081 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190081) and bet 98190403 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190403) SafeDice is skipping nonces from 2993 to 3030? Also, please explain why my current nonce showed as 3000 after I had a bet with nonce 3030.Having a closer look, they aint. There are bets of yours missing in your history. 98190085 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190085) has the expected nonce (2994), but is a 0 value (winning) bet. 98190091 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190091) has the nonce after that (2995), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet. 98190100 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190100) with the next nonce (2996), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet. I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me), or if it's just a bug for you. But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: Lutpin on February 23, 2016, 08:56:40 PM Also, please explain why my current nonce showed as 3000 after I had a bet with nonce 3030. I'm not SafeDice, I can't.I only showed you what I've found from investigating the situation you've presented us. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: BoXXoB on February 23, 2016, 08:59:09 PM Those aren't rolls that I made. I am doing martingale and never rolled "0". They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot). I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug. I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side. If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out. Bets with value of 0 indeed seem to be left out of history but by the looks of it they only disappear after a refresh. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: Mumbeeptind1963 on February 23, 2016, 09:01:01 PM Those aren't rolls that I made. I am doing martingale and never rolled "0". They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot). I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug. I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side. If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out. I sent a report on PD no reply or bounty.https://i.imgur.com/Bdj47gRh.jpg Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: DarkStar_ on February 23, 2016, 11:24:52 PM Ok folks. I started winning big at SafeDice.com late last week. I am currently up almost 48BTC. I've withdrawn about 30BTC as of this morning before the hot wallet was dry again. Just within the past hours, there has been some very flaky behavior on the site regarding rolls. I was doing my variation on martingale when I noticed I would click roll but no result would come back. So I'd refresh the page just to make sure it wasn't an issue with my browser not displaying the result. Sure enough, there was no roll. I would click roll a few more times and it would go through finally. Some seemed fishy, so I checked the roll details of my rolls. Please see the results of my investigation here: http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ (http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ). Also a link to the 3rd party roll verifier: here (https://dicesites.com/safedice/verifier?ss=E9Ak56hwr3EvwlBwAMzwipvCbbOYIV0IXmGl5vErkLeqosDOb7&cs=02454927109c609&ln=3030&n=1&ssh=02454927109C6099418CBC7AB5A62B2513C4BC570D743AF48CE86447D4863D2BD351C6F785E1404FFC4A3D93EB112BA3AF27DB2214398CCD45C1185BC4915FC7) If they are proveable fair, then they can't be rigging the dice. It sounds like they have been having software problems, I would at least wait it out until they look into it. It is of course possible that you have either found a flaw, or they are in trouble so decided to start messing with the fairness, but I doubt that is the case. Those aren't rolls that I made. I am doing martingale and never rolled "0". They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot). I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug. I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side. If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out. I sent a report on PD no reply or bounty.https://i.imgur.com/Bdj47gRh.jpg Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: poplolnman on February 23, 2016, 11:49:26 PM I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me), or if it's just a bug for you. But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls. In this case frequently happened a user that feel not satisfied because they have won previously make they feel "this is should be win!" Win win and win and they would do everything to blame. So far I can't see something wrong here, op please re-upload the screenshot or maybe bring more evidence. So maybe we can help to figure out what's wrong exactly here. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 24, 2016, 12:01:03 AM I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me), or if it's just a bug for you. But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls. In this case frequently happened a user that feel not satisfied because they have won previously make they feel "this is should be win!" Win win and win and they would do everything to blame. So far I can't see something wrong here, op please re-upload the screenshot or maybe bring more evidence. So maybe we can help to figure out what's wrong exactly here. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: Lutpin on February 24, 2016, 12:02:16 AM You can see the screenshots here: http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ. The main issue is the nonce being at 3000 after I already had a roll using nonce 3030. Its obvious something strange was happening with the nonce. I absolutely did NOT place any bets at "0". If I lost, I set the bet at 2x and re-rolled. As said, contact them, report it as a bug with all the information collected here, ask for a refund and/or a bug bounty.Then wait for their answer and see how to proceed from there. Look at PD is this normal? i use martingale x33.00 You gonna have to provide more than just a plain screen of your last bets in order for people to catch what you're questioning and where your problem lies.I sent a report on PD no reply or bounty. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: SafeDice on February 24, 2016, 04:02:13 AM First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total.
I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it. From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 24, 2016, 04:30:30 AM First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total. Please check and let me know. I did not ever click roll while betting 0. And please explain how my nonce on the "fair" page showed 3000 AFTER bet 98190403 (which used nonce 3030) was placed.I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it. From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: NLNico on February 24, 2016, 06:17:47 AM So actual bet history (bold = in screenshot):
#98146261 (https://safedice.com/bets/98146261) - nonce #2495 - BTC0.016 (win) ... 466 bets with 0 amount ?? (I am too lazy to run my script to get those :P) ... #98189833 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189833) - nonce #2960 - BTC0 (loss) #98189843 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189843) - nonce #2961 - BTC0 (loss) #98189847 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189847) - nonce #2962 - BTC0.001 (loss) #98189852 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189852) - nonce #2963 - BTC0 (loss) #98189864 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189864) - nonce #2964 - BTC0 (loss) #98189875 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189875) - nonce #2965 - BTC0 (loss) #98189886 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189886) - nonce #2966 - BTC0.002 (loss) #98189887 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189887) - nonce #2967 - BTC0 (loss) #98189896 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189896) - nonce #2968 - BTC0.004 (loss) #98189899 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189899) - nonce #2969 - BTC0 (loss) #98189910 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189910) - nonce #2970 - BTC0 (loss) #98189921 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189921) - nonce #2971 - BTC0 (win) #98189932 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189932) - nonce #2972 - BTC0 (loss) #98189943 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189943) - nonce #2973 - BTC0 (win) #98189954 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189954) - nonce #2974 - BTC0 (loss) #98189962 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189962) - nonce #2975 - BTC0 (loss) #98189973 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189973) - nonce #2976 - BTC0 (loss) #98189981 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189981) - nonce #2977 - BTC0 (win) #98189989 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189989) - nonce #2978 - BTC0 (win) #98189998 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189998) - nonce #2979 - BTC0 (loss) #98190005 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190005) - nonce #2980 - BTC0 (loss) #98190015 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190015) - nonce #2981 - BTC0 (loss) #98190022 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190022) - nonce #2982 - BTC0.008 (loss) #98190028 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190028) - nonce #2983 - BTC0 (loss) #98190036 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190036) - nonce #2984 - BTC0.016 (loss) #98190037 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190037) - nonce #2985 - BTC0 (loss) #98190044 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190044) - nonce #2986 - BTC0.032 (loss) #98190048 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190048) - nonce #2987 - BTC0 (win) #98190055 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190055) - nonce #2988 - BTC0 (win) #98190065 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190065) - nonce #2989 - BTC0.064 (loss) #98190067 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190067) - nonce #2990 - BTC0 (loss) #98190074 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190074) - nonce #2991 - BTC0.128 (loss) #98190075 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190075) - nonce #2992 - BTC0 (loss) #98190081 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190081) - nonce #2993 - BTC0.256 (loss) #98190085 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190085) - nonce #2994 - BTC0 (win) #98190091 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190091) - nonce #2995 - BTC0 (loss) #98190100 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190100) - nonce #2996 - BTC0 (loss) #98190110 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190110) - nonce #2997 - BTC0 (loss) #98190119 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190119) - nonce #2998 - BTC0 (win) #98190125 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190125) - nonce #2999 - BTC0 (win) #98190136 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190136) - nonce #3000 - BTC0 (loss) #98190143 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190143) - nonce #3001 - BTC0 (win) #98190153 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190153) - nonce #3002 - BTC0 (loss) #98190162 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190162) - nonce #3003 - BTC0 (loss) #98190169 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190169) - nonce #3004 - BTC0 (win) #98190179 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190179) - nonce #3005 - BTC0 (loss) #98190188 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190188) - nonce #3006 - BTC0 (win) #98190195 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190195) - nonce #3007 - BTC0 (loss) #98190205 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190205) - nonce #3008 - BTC0 (loss) #98190215 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190215) - nonce #3009 - BTC0 (win) #98190223 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190223) - nonce #3010 - BTC0 (loss) #98190230 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190230) - nonce #3011 - BTC0 (win) #98190242 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190242) - nonce #3012 - BTC0 (loss) #98190249 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190249) - nonce #3013 - BTC0 (loss) #98190260 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190260) - nonce #3014 - BTC0 (loss) #98190266 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190266) - nonce #3015 - BTC0 (win) #98190275 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190275) - nonce #3016 - BTC0 (loss) #98190286 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190286) - nonce #3017 - BTC0 (loss) #98190294 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190294) - nonce #3018 - BTC0 (loss) #98190304 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190304) - nonce #3019 - BTC0 (loss) #98190312 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190312) - nonce #3020 - BTC0 (win) #98190323 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190323) - nonce #3021 - BTC0 (win) #98190331 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190331) - nonce #3022 - BTC0 (win) #98190339 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190339) - nonce #3023 - BTC0 (loss) #98190346 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190346) - nonce #3024 - BTC0 (loss) #98190356 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190356) - nonce #3025 - BTC0 (loss) #98190366 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190366) - nonce #3026 - BTC0 (win) #98190376 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190376) - nonce #3027 - BTC0 (win) #98190387 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190387) - nonce #3028 - BTC0 (loss) #98190396 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190396) - nonce #3029 - BTC0 (win) #98190403 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190403) - nonce #3030 - BTC0.512 (loss) Seems plenty of bets were 0 amount (way more than 30.) Note: if you refresh the page on SafeDice, the 0 amount bets are actually not shown in bet history. Player's fault? The most logical explanation is that player made 0 amount bets, which are not shown after you refresh the page. But OP claims he doesn't make 0 amount bets. It does make me curious why between that last win and first lose, there are 466 bets with 0 amount. I find it hard to imagine that OP clicked 466 times without getting any bet result. But if it's really true that his nonce-counter says "3000" but his real last bet nonce is at "3030", then there is probably at least some server-side problem. (In theory that screenshot could have been made in between though, but I assume SafeDice can check this.) Rigging? I was going to give multiple reasons why I do not think it's "rigging". But 1 reason seems enough: from nonce #2960 to nonce #2970 (including), he would have a losing streak of 11 bets. While this actual losing streak is only 10 bets. So if it's rigged, they are not very good at it :XD Overall to me it implies much more some server-side issue that results in 0 amount bets, but I have no idea what/how. Basically I do hope/expect another explanation from SafeDice. Just my 2 satoshis. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: BitBatFan on February 24, 2016, 06:57:19 AM First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total. Website is 15 months old so don't get to excited with established since 2014.I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it. From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this. Showing 0 bet if bet actually arrived to server, but you're too afraid user will win again is just too sick. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 24, 2016, 08:08:47 PM Is there any result on your server-side investigation?
Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 25, 2016, 02:43:05 PM Hello SD Admin? Care to share what happened? Also what is up with not being able to withdraw again?
Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: SafeDice on February 25, 2016, 03:43:38 PM So actual bet history (bold = in screenshot): #98146261 (https://safedice.com/bets/98146261) - nonce #2495 - BTC0.016 (win) ... 466 bets with 0 amount ?? (I am too lazy to run my script to get those :P) ... #98189833 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189833) - nonce #2960 - BTC0 (loss) #98189843 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189843) - nonce #2961 - BTC0 (loss) #98189847 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189847) - nonce #2962 - BTC0.001 (loss) #98189852 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189852) - nonce #2963 - BTC0 (loss) #98189864 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189864) - nonce #2964 - BTC0 (loss) #98189875 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189875) - nonce #2965 - BTC0 (loss) #98189886 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189886) - nonce #2966 - BTC0.002 (loss) #98189887 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189887) - nonce #2967 - BTC0 (loss) #98189896 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189896) - nonce #2968 - BTC0.004 (loss) #98189899 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189899) - nonce #2969 - BTC0 (loss) #98189910 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189910) - nonce #2970 - BTC0 (loss) #98189921 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189921) - nonce #2971 - BTC0 (win) #98189932 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189932) - nonce #2972 - BTC0 (loss) #98189943 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189943) - nonce #2973 - BTC0 (win) #98189954 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189954) - nonce #2974 - BTC0 (loss) #98189962 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189962) - nonce #2975 - BTC0 (loss) #98189973 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189973) - nonce #2976 - BTC0 (loss) #98189981 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189981) - nonce #2977 - BTC0 (win) #98189989 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189989) - nonce #2978 - BTC0 (win) #98189998 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189998) - nonce #2979 - BTC0 (loss) #98190005 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190005) - nonce #2980 - BTC0 (loss) #98190015 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190015) - nonce #2981 - BTC0 (loss) #98190022 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190022) - nonce #2982 - BTC0.008 (loss) #98190028 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190028) - nonce #2983 - BTC0 (loss) #98190036 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190036) - nonce #2984 - BTC0.016 (loss) #98190037 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190037) - nonce #2985 - BTC0 (loss) #98190044 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190044) - nonce #2986 - BTC0.032 (loss) #98190048 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190048) - nonce #2987 - BTC0 (win) #98190055 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190055) - nonce #2988 - BTC0 (win) #98190065 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190065) - nonce #2989 - BTC0.064 (loss) #98190067 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190067) - nonce #2990 - BTC0 (loss) #98190074 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190074) - nonce #2991 - BTC0.128 (loss) #98190075 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190075) - nonce #2992 - BTC0 (loss) #98190081 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190081) - nonce #2993 - BTC0.256 (loss) #98190085 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190085) - nonce #2994 - BTC0 (win) #98190091 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190091) - nonce #2995 - BTC0 (loss) #98190100 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190100) - nonce #2996 - BTC0 (loss) #98190110 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190110) - nonce #2997 - BTC0 (loss) #98190119 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190119) - nonce #2998 - BTC0 (win) #98190125 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190125) - nonce #2999 - BTC0 (win) #98190136 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190136) - nonce #3000 - BTC0 (loss) #98190143 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190143) - nonce #3001 - BTC0 (win) #98190153 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190153) - nonce #3002 - BTC0 (loss) #98190162 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190162) - nonce #3003 - BTC0 (loss) #98190169 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190169) - nonce #3004 - BTC0 (win) #98190179 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190179) - nonce #3005 - BTC0 (loss) #98190188 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190188) - nonce #3006 - BTC0 (win) #98190195 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190195) - nonce #3007 - BTC0 (loss) #98190205 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190205) - nonce #3008 - BTC0 (loss) #98190215 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190215) - nonce #3009 - BTC0 (win) #98190223 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190223) - nonce #3010 - BTC0 (loss) #98190230 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190230) - nonce #3011 - BTC0 (win) #98190242 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190242) - nonce #3012 - BTC0 (loss) #98190249 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190249) - nonce #3013 - BTC0 (loss) #98190260 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190260) - nonce #3014 - BTC0 (loss) #98190266 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190266) - nonce #3015 - BTC0 (win) #98190275 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190275) - nonce #3016 - BTC0 (loss) #98190286 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190286) - nonce #3017 - BTC0 (loss) #98190294 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190294) - nonce #3018 - BTC0 (loss) #98190304 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190304) - nonce #3019 - BTC0 (loss) #98190312 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190312) - nonce #3020 - BTC0 (win) #98190323 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190323) - nonce #3021 - BTC0 (win) #98190331 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190331) - nonce #3022 - BTC0 (win) #98190339 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190339) - nonce #3023 - BTC0 (loss) #98190346 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190346) - nonce #3024 - BTC0 (loss) #98190356 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190356) - nonce #3025 - BTC0 (loss) #98190366 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190366) - nonce #3026 - BTC0 (win) #98190376 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190376) - nonce #3027 - BTC0 (win) #98190387 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190387) - nonce #3028 - BTC0 (loss) #98190396 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190396) - nonce #3029 - BTC0 (win) #98190403 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190403) - nonce #3030 - BTC0.512 (loss) Seems plenty of bets were 0 amount (way more than 30.) Note: if you refresh the page on SafeDice, the 0 amount bets are actually not shown in bet history. Player's fault? The most logical explanation is that player made 0 amount bets, which are not shown after you refresh the page. But OP claims he doesn't make 0 amount bets. It does make me curious why between that last win and first lose, there are 466 bets with 0 amount. I find it hard to imagine that OP clicked 466 times without getting any bet result. But if it's really true that his nonce-counter says "3000" but his real last bet nonce is at "3030", then there is probably at least some server-side problem. (In theory that screenshot could have been made in between though, but I assume SafeDice can check this.) Rigging? I was going to give multiple reasons why I do not think it's "rigging". But 1 reason seems enough: from nonce #2960 to nonce #2970 (including), he would have a losing streak of 11 bets. While this actual losing streak is only 10 bets. So if it's rigged, they are not very good at it :XD Overall to me it implies much more some server-side issue that results in 0 amount bets, but I have no idea what/how. Basically I do hope/expect another explanation from SafeDice. Just my 2 satoshis. Thank you for the analysis Nico :) I did analyzed the same thing. I hope this can clarifies what happened wasn't an ill intention from the server. Regarding the 3000 & 3030 nonce, (tl;dr) it was only a display discrepancy... When the browser loaded, it will take the latest nonce from the server and increment it only when you " click " the roll. The server, on the other hand will increase the nonce whenever it receives a roll command. What happened on this case was that all the rolls were valid on the server, but probably wasn't made by the same browser, the browser only notices it was made few rolls until 3000 nonce. First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total. Website is 15 months old so don't get to excited with established since 2014.I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it. From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this. Showing 0 bet if bet actually arrived to server, but you're too afraid user will win again is just too sick. What do you mean by " too afraid user will win again? " Everyone is always welcome to place a bet, even we put a marketing budget on this Hello SD Admin? Care to share what happened? Also what is up with not being able to withdraw again? Sorry to make you wait, there are several possibilities: 1) Imagine you have two browsers running at the same time, logged in on the same account, the first one is the browser in the screenshot, the other one made those zero rolls. 2) You were running a bot, and it has a bug 3) Something wrong happened with the network and it sends a " shadow roll request " (very unlikely) I also have an explanation why this case happened only to you. This probably related to your previous report which happened few days before this. In short, few days before Ned started to win, his account was compromised. It has nothing to do with the server, and I gave him all information that I got, ask him to use 2FA, and reimburse some amount because he was a returning user. For security measure, I'll just message Ned directly about the explanation. Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: ned.ryerson on February 25, 2016, 05:54:34 PM Can you please address the withdrawal issues at least?
Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: srgkrgkj on February 25, 2016, 05:58:12 PM So actual bet history (bold = in screenshot): #98146261 (https://safedice.com/bets/98146261) - nonce #2495 - BTC0.016 (win) ... 466 bets with 0 amount ?? (I am too lazy to run my script to get those :P) ... #98189833 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189833) - nonce #2960 - BTC0 (loss) #98189843 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189843) - nonce #2961 - BTC0 (loss) #98189847 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189847) - nonce #2962 - BTC0.001 (loss) #98189852 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189852) - nonce #2963 - BTC0 (loss) #98189864 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189864) - nonce #2964 - BTC0 (loss) #98189875 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189875) - nonce #2965 - BTC0 (loss) #98189886 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189886) - nonce #2966 - BTC0.002 (loss) #98189887 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189887) - nonce #2967 - BTC0 (loss) #98189896 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189896) - nonce #2968 - BTC0.004 (loss) #98189899 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189899) - nonce #2969 - BTC0 (loss) #98189910 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189910) - nonce #2970 - BTC0 (loss) #98189921 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189921) - nonce #2971 - BTC0 (win) #98189932 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189932) - nonce #2972 - BTC0 (loss) #98189943 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189943) - nonce #2973 - BTC0 (win) #98189954 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189954) - nonce #2974 - BTC0 (loss) #98189962 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189962) - nonce #2975 - BTC0 (loss) #98189973 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189973) - nonce #2976 - BTC0 (loss) #98189981 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189981) - nonce #2977 - BTC0 (win) #98189989 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189989) - nonce #2978 - BTC0 (win) #98189998 (https://safedice.com/bets/98189998) - nonce #2979 - BTC0 (loss) #98190005 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190005) - nonce #2980 - BTC0 (loss) #98190015 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190015) - nonce #2981 - BTC0 (loss) #98190022 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190022) - nonce #2982 - BTC0.008 (loss) #98190028 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190028) - nonce #2983 - BTC0 (loss) #98190036 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190036) - nonce #2984 - BTC0.016 (loss) #98190037 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190037) - nonce #2985 - BTC0 (loss) #98190044 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190044) - nonce #2986 - BTC0.032 (loss) #98190048 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190048) - nonce #2987 - BTC0 (win) #98190055 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190055) - nonce #2988 - BTC0 (win) #98190065 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190065) - nonce #2989 - BTC0.064 (loss) #98190067 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190067) - nonce #2990 - BTC0 (loss) #98190074 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190074) - nonce #2991 - BTC0.128 (loss) #98190075 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190075) - nonce #2992 - BTC0 (loss) #98190081 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190081) - nonce #2993 - BTC0.256 (loss) #98190085 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190085) - nonce #2994 - BTC0 (win) #98190091 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190091) - nonce #2995 - BTC0 (loss) #98190100 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190100) - nonce #2996 - BTC0 (loss) #98190110 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190110) - nonce #2997 - BTC0 (loss) #98190119 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190119) - nonce #2998 - BTC0 (win) #98190125 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190125) - nonce #2999 - BTC0 (win) #98190136 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190136) - nonce #3000 - BTC0 (loss) #98190143 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190143) - nonce #3001 - BTC0 (win) #98190153 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190153) - nonce #3002 - BTC0 (loss) #98190162 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190162) - nonce #3003 - BTC0 (loss) #98190169 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190169) - nonce #3004 - BTC0 (win) #98190179 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190179) - nonce #3005 - BTC0 (loss) #98190188 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190188) - nonce #3006 - BTC0 (win) #98190195 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190195) - nonce #3007 - BTC0 (loss) #98190205 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190205) - nonce #3008 - BTC0 (loss) #98190215 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190215) - nonce #3009 - BTC0 (win) #98190223 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190223) - nonce #3010 - BTC0 (loss) #98190230 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190230) - nonce #3011 - BTC0 (win) #98190242 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190242) - nonce #3012 - BTC0 (loss) #98190249 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190249) - nonce #3013 - BTC0 (loss) #98190260 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190260) - nonce #3014 - BTC0 (loss) #98190266 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190266) - nonce #3015 - BTC0 (win) #98190275 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190275) - nonce #3016 - BTC0 (loss) #98190286 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190286) - nonce #3017 - BTC0 (loss) #98190294 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190294) - nonce #3018 - BTC0 (loss) #98190304 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190304) - nonce #3019 - BTC0 (loss) #98190312 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190312) - nonce #3020 - BTC0 (win) #98190323 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190323) - nonce #3021 - BTC0 (win) #98190331 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190331) - nonce #3022 - BTC0 (win) #98190339 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190339) - nonce #3023 - BTC0 (loss) #98190346 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190346) - nonce #3024 - BTC0 (loss) #98190356 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190356) - nonce #3025 - BTC0 (loss) #98190366 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190366) - nonce #3026 - BTC0 (win) #98190376 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190376) - nonce #3027 - BTC0 (win) #98190387 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190387) - nonce #3028 - BTC0 (loss) #98190396 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190396) - nonce #3029 - BTC0 (win) #98190403 (https://safedice.com/bets/98190403) - nonce #3030 - BTC0.512 (loss) Seems plenty of bets were 0 amount (way more than 30.) Note: if you refresh the page on SafeDice, the 0 amount bets are actually not shown in bet history. Player's fault? The most logical explanation is that player made 0 amount bets, which are not shown after you refresh the page. But OP claims he doesn't make 0 amount bets. It does make me curious why between that last win and first lose, there are 466 bets with 0 amount. I find it hard to imagine that OP clicked 466 times without getting any bet result. But if it's really true that his nonce-counter says "3000" but his real last bet nonce is at "3030", then there is probably at least some server-side problem. (In theory that screenshot could have been made in between though, but I assume SafeDice can check this.) Rigging? I was going to give multiple reasons why I do not think it's "rigging". But 1 reason seems enough: from nonce #2960 to nonce #2970 (including), he would have a losing streak of 11 bets. While this actual losing streak is only 10 bets. So if it's rigged, they are not very good at it :XD Overall to me it implies much more some server-side issue that results in 0 amount bets, but I have no idea what/how. Basically I do hope/expect another explanation from SafeDice. Just my 2 satoshis. Thank you for the analysis Nico :) I did analyzed the same thing. I hope this can clarifies what happened wasn't an ill intention from the server. Regarding the 3000 & 3030 nonce, (tl;dr) it was only a display discrepancy... When the browser loaded, it will take the latest nonce from the server and increment it only when you " click " the roll. The server, on the other hand will increase the nonce whenever it receives a roll command. What happened on this case was that all the rolls were valid on the server, but probably wasn't made by the same browser, the browser only notices it was made few rolls until 3000 nonce. First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total. Website is 15 months old so don't get to excited with established since 2014.I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it. From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this. Showing 0 bet if bet actually arrived to server, but you're too afraid user will win again is just too sick. What do you mean by " too afraid user will win again? " Everyone is always welcome to place a bet, even we put a marketing budget on this Hello SD Admin? Care to share what happened? Also what is up with not being able to withdraw again? Sorry to make you wait, there are several possibilities: 1) Imagine you have two browsers running at the same time, logged in on the same account, the first one is the browser in the screenshot, the other one made those zero rolls. 2) You were running a bot, and it has a bug 3) Something wrong happened with the network and it sends a " shadow roll request " (very unlikely) I also have an explanation why this case happened only to you. This probably related to your previous report which happened few days before this. In short, few days before Ned started to win, his account was compromised. It has nothing to do with the server, and I gave him all information that I got, ask him to use 2FA, and reimburse some amount because he was a returning user. For security measure, I'll just message Ned directly about the explanation. glad to have this sorted a bit LD safedice was a amazing site in 2015 hopefully they can keep up the rep this year lol from the analysis it does look dodgy so I guess I should occasionally check discrepencies could be on a wider case and go unnoticed :O not that I'm sayin Title: Re: SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls. Post by: SafeDice on February 26, 2016, 12:13:25 AM Can you please address the withdrawal issues at least? Withdrawal works normal, except the hot wallet needs to be refilled, few withdrawal was made when you asked this question |
