Bitcoin Forum

Looking to borrow various assets on BTCT.co/Bitfunder/ltc-globale/etc to short them.

Please PM me what you would be interested in lending and I'll give you a proposal.

Regards.

Markets emerge!

Borrow shares listed in young and developing markets? What for?
Are you planning to dump those shares at those thin markets and see, if you can cause a panic and buy them back at lower price?
If I recall, slimy muppet popescu keeps yapping in IRC, how he will short this and that and make a billion. Is he bankrolling this little adventure of yours to make you look like a ass and same time promote his "one stock wonder" bazaar?

When you answer this, please don't lie ;)

PS! If you like, I can sell you few virtual shares of ART at slightly above IPO (and with some additional restrictions) but only, if you buy 10K or more.

As I said, short them.

It would be assets I believe have no or a poor future and would decline in value. So I would indeed "dump" them, but at the current market price or close to it, not dump them until I reach abysmal prices.

So, you are looking for a volunteer, who likes to bend over and get it up the arse?

http://i48.tinypic.com/2dljfxl.gif
Use that as a logo for promo.

 

If the asset indeed fail/scam/etc., the lender gets a bonus for lending he would not have otherwise. If it doesn't and remains the same or rise in price, the user is owed shares back + also gets a fee for lending.

If the holder's intent was to keep the shares long-term, lending them is a winning situation in any case.

Unless you go under and can't give back the shares. There is always a risk somewhere.

I wonder if you would be able to buy back shares, the volumes on most of these are really low? What volume of shares are you looking to short?

Probably around 25-100 BTC worth at current prices, depending on asset.

I agree.  Not sure why the idea of shorting gets so much hate - at root it's a bet on whether or not a security will do well, with the person betting on it doing well getting paid for taking the bet.

If you want to short my asset (LTC-ATF - listed on LTC-Global) you're welcome to.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112876.0

It doesn't pay dividends so whatever fee you paid would need to be determined in some other fashion than a markup to dividends.  Some percentage of NAV/U each month (paid in advance) would be ideal.

Current NAV/U is just under 30 (was just over until LTC started recovering).  You'd be able to sell any reasonable quantity at 35-40 no problem (I know of a few people looking to buy).

Could lend you up to 200 of my own (I own about 240).  Long-term is no problem (obviously you can return them any time you want after, say, a month).  As I've zero intention of selling my holdings blow 200 it's a good deal for me provided the fee you pay covers the risk to me of you being unable to hold up your end of the deal.

In the actual market, I'm all for shorting...however here it's a bit different, and that's because there aren't any regulations.

For example, if Namworld decided to short the Notes in my fund I could artificially inflate the price..either by buying up a bunch of my own Notes personally or modifying the dividend rates / Buyback price to increase demand, ultimately driving up the price. The same could happen to other companies...it's not exactly ethical, but it could still happen. Though it could hurt your overall reputation, there really aren't any other downsides...it's not we're regulated here ::)

The idea that fund managers can have this sort of control is what makes me uneasy about shorting.

I have some BTC-BOND I'll let you borrow. 

:)

Are there assets you are not particularly interested in?

I see your point and I'll raise you a theory. In my view, it's about liquidity. Let's say I gave Nammie a short contract for TU.SILVER on BitFunder. Say a paper contract at 0.192 per share. If I then tried to raise the price by not selling shares at .192 but 0.25 (trying to force him to re-buy at 0.25) what's to stop other shareholders from stepping in and making money selling at demand price? Working the bid is even more dangerous IMO. If I set a high bid and try to buy back shares above NAV price, all I do is lower the NAV. Long term I would just be lowering the value of my company and this would play right into the shorter's hands.

But in an illiquid market things are different, as you said. So I wouldn't want to short (or buy) a position that couldn't turn over in a week or less.

It doesn't get hate in general, it gets hate from the people who are peddling shit and know it (both in BTC and in fiat, for that matter). Otherwise shorting has been wide open on MPEx for a year by now (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77550.0). Not that many have dared.


Arguably a company where you can alter the dividends/income at will has no point in existing in the first place, as it's simply a Ponzi waiting to happen. You don't need someone shorting to start doing all that.

@gabbynot
I'm not shorting my own stuff that has a fixed face value.  :P

@Deprived
I'll pass on that one

Anything, I'll just check the asset in details and decide if I'm interested.

Bump.

Would be interested in mining related assets, ASIC or not (if not upgrading to ASIC, I'd suggest you short these yourself ASAP)

PM sent.