Bitcoin Forum

Hello guys another story to talk on here, none other than about our little hero, lutpin

I think this guy deserves a noble prize for becoming the member of DT while he was full member ( if I remember right ) , so big claps !

But that raises questions too, how can you in some 6 months learn so much about bitcoins and so much on how to find scammers and keys and all that, I mean unless you have another account which at least is 1 year old :)

My questions :)

1) How crypto-games.net made you a moderator while you were a newbie on here ? I guess you knew enough about bitcoins when you joined our forum and had enough knowledge on becoming moderator and manage the things related to bitcoins ?

then how you were newbie on forum ?


2) Your first post was in gambling - games and round section , which means you came here to claim a giveaway and I can tell from my experience that unless you stay on forum for some 1 month you dont know much about the giveaways here


3) You sounded to be the owner of cryto-games on many occasions like the one here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750760.msg11936725#msg11936725

I am sure a moderator ( just a chat moderator ) wont say WE ARE DOING THIS .. DOING THAT ..

then here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=750760.msg11946831#msg11946831

You seem to have the power to make changes in system in case member is able to convince you.

Here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=958786.msg12096241#msg12096241 - you seem to be able to giveaway bonus to users

So if you are among the owners, then you are abusing trust system as you gave cryto-games a +trust ( reason there is just because you are moderator ) what message you want to give the community that make me moderator and get trust from DT ?


4) Here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1159372.msg12212744#msg12212744

You tried to ripp off the site , rather than informing the owner about the mistake, good enough for you ?


At the end a humble question, is mexxer2 your alt ?

You took some time going into this :D

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I'm no hero, I'm a senior member. And I'm not so little after all, over 6,2'

Now if I tell you, there are Junior Members on DT, there are Members on DT, there are Full Members on DT,...
Being on DT has nothing to do with the rank of your account.

I use bitcoin since some years. Never bothered to get into this forum though.
And no, I don't have any alt that is "at least 1 year old".

I was a mod on crypto-games even before joining this forum. They didn't make me mod because of bitcointalk, but because I contributed to their site, and still am.

I had different goals back then, sue me. Time changed and my perspective changed.

I got influence, indeed.
I can make things happen, that grew with time.
I'm neither an owner, nor am I "abusing trust".
I gave positive trust to both owners, mainly because I do trust them, even before I was anywhere near DT.


Yeah, I was cearly "ripping them off". If I were, I wouldn't have posted in their thread though, would I?
Unlike others, I didn't withdraw a single satoshi from that site, believe me or not.

At the end a humble question, are you trolling?

Lets assume for a second your claims are correct and Lutpins own crypt-games.net. How is this trust abuse?

@Lutpin, so you've got a connection to Crypto-Games is that right? I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
http://i63.tinypic.com/20kq2rr.png


Short-arse. 6'5" Nyanyanayaa!

BTW, this entry is disqualified from our Top Trumps competition for not being rating text. So there.

Because he gave trust from one of his account to other if so.

Nah, you made this thread because you were found guilty and you don't want any of your alt be found and tagged from someone on the DT which lutpin already did. 2 of your accounts already has feedbacks and yo openly admitted that you have 4 more.
Lutpin so far has did so many contributions in the forum.

Edit: Cusses removed
Another crappy drama about me and Lutpin. Anyway, lets debunk another of these baseless claims

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNMIYRt7i9c
We are giving out Nobel prizes for an achievement/recognition of an individual's helpful ratings now are we?
People who know about bitcoin aren't always on Bitcointalk, if thats what you mean. I met Lutpin on CG.net, and was probably the person who brought him to "try it out".
From what I know he has been a mod there, pretty much since the site started.
What in the blistering blue barnacles are you even talking about? It takes less than a day to know how most of the things go around here, with the most time-consuming one being, understanding the trust system. Took me more than 2-3 months to know what the fudge DT was. So no, it doesn't take much if you can speak english and put some devotion into knowing it

Think of him as the head of Mod group. CG admins generally tend to agree with his decisions, due to the devotion he has put into the site since he joined.
Did you seriously think admins take the time to manually go through each of the usernames?
tl;dr make some claims with proofs and then come back. Or as some prefer to call it "Proof or GTFO"

I was the one who told Lutpin to give you negative,sad that he left it neutral.You were dumb enough to post from your multiple accounts in that lending thread.For anyone who is not aware this is how the story goes :

1.User clangtrump (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=552834) opens a thread asking for loan with his account as collateral https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1397880.0. First he denies to sign a message using his oldest staked address but somehow he does it.

2.Meanwhile User Next BillGates (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=525865) who has an auction thread for selling a Full Member account which matches the details of clangtrump https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1397707.0 posts in the lending thread from the wrong account (he was suppose to reply from clangtrump).He was not too fast in deleting the post and I had screen shot it,which could be checked here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1397880.msg14192749#msg14192749

3.Once this was busted,he claims to be having more than 4 accounts with same stats and suspiciously he locks the thread.It is obvious he was selling the same account which he wanted to take the loan on.This deserves a negative indeed.Let's assume he has 4 full member accounts with same stats ,he can sign a message from all of them or verify that's he owns it in order to prove his innocence.    

Well, if we are not allowed to own more than 1 account then get it as a rule from Theymos and I will happily follow it. And this thread is not because of what you think. I never spam with signature campaigns too as you may see, like you and others.

I am 100% sure buy/sell accounts here is allowed and if Lutpin is legit and honest ( which i agree he is ) then why you are having so much trouble if a thread was opened to ask some questions ? Its like you dont want to give exam because you know all of it ?

Fun fact: this is my first bitcoin address holding the first bitcoins I ever earned: 1NDJowuMso8iDdZoEDhZy4nYZNXqUPpTzm.
It's only 48k sat, but they are worth a fortune to me.
That address was first seen on Apr 09, 2013 @ 10:31 pm
And that is how I can in 6 monhs learn "so much about bitcoins".

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The problem is not that you're selling an account. The problem is that you're selling an account while at the same time trying to sell the same account disguising it as a loan

I usually ignore trolls like you, seems Lutpin loves taunting people like you though  :D

Edit: Also, no. Account sales aren't allowed, they are discouraged but community consensus is that they should be permitted to at least prevent the scams done from an account sold in the forum

The discussion is not about having multiple accounts or sig spamming.You were about to scam people,the lender and the account buyer.Why would you lock the thread after I busted your scam ? Admit it mate,you deserve the feedback ,in fact I'd ask DT to give you a negative.

Dear friend I wasn't selling same account, cant we have 2 accounts with same stats ? I mean made on same day then both have same activity ( assuming both posts regularly )


Wow , you won a medal :) . Its not a kid's thing friend, think what I am saying since hours and you will understand. If not then ask your parents to tell you, not everything we kids can understand :)

Ah and yes the thread was locked so that kids dont find a playground at wrong place lol

And good job done detective :) , I will tip you a car ( sorry a toy one though ) ;)

1.You delete comment
2.Next comment you post like nothing happened
3.You lock the thread
4.Claim to be having multiple accounts with same stats (Apparently)
5.Can you prove you have multiple accounts with same stats and you had no intentions of defaulting the loan ? Not to me,take any trusted member ,prove him the ownership of at least 2 Full Member accounts with same stats .End of discussion.

1) Agree I thought it might be bad,and I agree I made post with wrong account but when I am not SPAMMING with signature then I think there is no problem ?

2) Yes indeed to avoid that.

3) Yes I told you, I dont want children to play in wrong playground :)

4) Yes i do have, so whats the problem

5) Agree to buy them for BIN 0.06 BTC each with a escrow and I will happily sell you :)

Are you dumb ? Can't you read ? For the last time,the discussion is not above signature campaigns.

Okay.Scamming could be fun indeed.Not when you're caught.

Sorry not interested in dealing with a scammer.You're trying to make your way out.Why can't you prove that you own the other two accounts with the same stats and you had no bad intentions at all ?I think if you cared about your Rep you'd not be running away with reasons to not show the ownership of the accounts.

Your answer to #5 sounds like you're not happy with Lutpin's neutral and itching for a negative. Why would anyone want to buy your accounts? Just show that you were not lying and not trying to scam.

It's no where mentioned that I have to show of all my accounts to someone or else I am a scammer. If its listed please show me I will show you, if not then well you can give me red trust but you aren't having any reason for it, just because I said something to Lutpin you guys came crowding :(

And wait man, in case I was auctioning same account then how it makes me a scammer ? Because you can assume that but how can you be sure ?

I knew before opening this thread that it wont be good as you guys are one and dont even want to listen, but well , yeah my mistake. I forgot we have to live with the bosses :(

https://i.imgur.com/XXZ8YxF.gif

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On a more serious note, what's the point of a public thread, if you don't want people to comment on it?

Well, fine I think I should lock it now

Guys its my mistake I tried to raise voice, sorry Lutpin and all, good luck :) , message e for any uestions

I would tend to agree that Lutpin probably should not be in the DefaultTrust network, as he does seem to be inconsistent in his trust ratings and leaves a lot of negative trust ratings for things that are really not scams.

I would say that there is a good chance that Lutpin is more closely associated with CG then just being a chat moderator, although I am not 100% certain that he is an alt of either of the owners. He did (as did mixxer-2) put in a lot of effort into getting me to remove my negative ratings for the CG accounts.

There are no rules against having multiple accounts, and many people who farm accounts are likely to have many accounts that have roughly similar stats. Also any lender considering to lend BTC while taking collateral to secure such loan should make sure that the collateral is worth more then the loan amount in order to protect himself against a default. A smart lender will require collateral that is worth much more then the amount of the loan in order to give sufficient incentives for the borrower to repay, and the will result in the lender making more money from the borrower defaulting verses the borrower repaying the loan as agreed.

A smart borrower who needs BTC (cash) quickly will take out a loan using some asset that he is trying to sell to satisfy his immediate cash needs, and then can use the proceeds from the sale to repay the loan plus interest, and keep the difference. For example if someone were to own a 5 BTC casascius coin, and need 5 BTC quickly could take out a 5 BTC loan using such coin as collateral, then continue to attempt to sell the coin while the loan is outstanding, thus avoiding having to sell the coin at a "fire sale" price. As long as the coin is unredeemed, it will be worth much more then the 5 BTC loan, and if the borrower ends up defaulting on the loan, then the lender would likely make a lot more money selling the coin, even at a fire sale price then if the borrower had repaid the loan.

Edit: also that signed message above does not prove anything as it is not associated with your account in any way. It is also possible to buy private keys (which are somewhat frequently traded, especially for reasons like to redeem CLAMs), so considering that there are dust amounts in that address does not even prove that the BTC sent to that address was the result of BTC being sent to you.

Sorry ,I'm not aware of the general matters but in this case I was the one who messaged Lutpin and asked to give OP a negative trust which he didn't. Although it was quite obvious that OP was taking the loan on the same account as collateral which he was auctioning,Lutpin left him a neutral feedback.Not sure how this is miss use of DT power.You might have other issues which I'm not aware of but as far as the current thread is concerned ,the feedback is 100% accurate.

I believe that I saw Lutpin give the OP negative trust for this same issue (it now appears to have been removed), although I may be mistaken.

I am not sure what the reasoning behind the neutral even is. The OP is trying to take out a loan, which means he has some immediate need for cash, which applies to every other person who is attempting to take out a loan.

You are. I didn't leave OP a negative rating, at any point.

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It's not supposed to prove anything, I posted that for fun.

Okay I really need to break down Op's plan then:

1.He was taking a loan out by putting his account as collateral.
2.He had put the same account for auction.
3.Once he gets the loan,he will surely default it
4.The account will be sold in the meantime
5.Since the loan is defaulted ,unaware of it,the new owner of the account get's a negative trust.
6.OP makes 0.04 + 0.04 by selling/defaulting loan by the same account.

Well I am still not sure about the neutral rating though. Like I said before, a borrower/seller can continue to attempt to sell an asset being held as collateral while there is a loan against it, and if both the borrower and lender are smart, they will both benefit from such loan.


Trying to derail the thread?

Kinda irrelevant seeing that the OP indicated it wasn't the same account but refused to provide any proof (even in private) of owning 4 or at least 2 accounts with the same stats. Yes, there might be some shades of gray somewhere in this story but unless the OP can come with an explanation that is plausible, verifiable, and doesn't contradict earlier stories (seems impossible but what do I know) then it's safe to assume it's just a failed scam attempt.

Should this not be between Luptin and OP,see no need for the gang up. Even if it is just to support it does not look good seeing it in every accusation thread.

Seeing that the OP titled the thread "Trust Abuse - Lutpin - With Reasons" it stands to reason that it's not unreasonable to expect such reasons to be provided.

Even if you were to assume that the OP was trying to both sell and take a loan out against the same account at the same time, then I don't see how this is a scam attempt.

The OP is not trusted enough for someone to send BTC first to him, so it would make little sense for him to be able to receive payment for the account without first sending it to either the buyer (if trust enough) or an escrow. As I mentioned previously, the lender should setup the loan so that he would profit in the event that the OP defaults on the loan.

But its the same people every time was the point,if you had new blood in the conversation it would be reasonable to expect the issue to breathe but its not. Either people do not care as much or are scared to speak up,either way its a sad state of affairs. Was not trashing anyone just noticed this seems to be the same thread every time with a different name at top.

Except that's not the explanation the OP provided. I know lying is widely accepted on this forum but that doesn't make a person trustworthy, or specifically in this case it doesn't make someone's neutral trust rating for such person any kind of "abuse".


I think there is a fairly open discussion going on (except when the OP throws a fit and locks the thread temporarily). What exactly are you not happy about? Feel free to contribute to "breathe" some fresh air into it.

Actually QS raises a valid point here @suchmoon and @Lutpin .. why is selling something and putting it as collateral at same time a scam ?

Basically you gave rating for the same reason , right ?

Then explain it :) , I believe humanity is still alive as someone stood up for me.

And yeah Lutpin, I want to ask you something

You have given positive trust to almost everyone related to crypto-games , I mean from moderator to admins .. it seems like half ( or more) of your positive feedbacks are given to crypto-games related people here, dont you find it suspicious yourself ?

Moreover you have on occasions left positive trust even when the guy went first, you know that can make abuse of DT, as people will trade with you and you leave them trust in return ?

1 example : http://prntscr.com/afp3pq

Moreover you think everyone related to crypto-games deserves a +ve trust even when they havent done anything as such great in here ?

Most people claim you and mexxer are same and well, see this rating : http://prntscr.com/afp4hi

If you know someone you will simply give him trust rating ? Even without any proper reason of being trustworthy in forum ?

Moreover please see this : http://prntscr.com/afp68t , here you left him rating based on his posts , while forum has a rule that DONT GIVE TRUST RATINGS BASED ON POST QUALITY OR SUCH. Confirm here : http://prntscr.com/afp91v

So which is it then? Did you lie about having 4 accounts with the same stats?

Why are you changing the question here ? OK I will prove is other thing, but didnt lutpin left that rating for the reason QS explained ?

Its shady, which is why it deserves a neutral. It is to inform any future individuals who might loan you, or make a trade, of this.
Also, go on. Accuse Stunna of doing the same. He has trusted those individuals even before he was on DT, and any recent additions are indications of trustworthy acts. Also, you call 1+ BTC investment in a site not risky?
Ratings are given for a trade. Regarding trust farming, thats a completely different issue and I don't see Lutpin giving anyone feedbacks because he had a low amount deals with the person(after he got into DT). If he did, he has stated in the risked amount that he did not risk any amount with the person
Once again

He has risked his money with the admins. He trusts mods in there as he likely has loaned a few individuals from what I know. And as such, you trusting someone!=you have to have a trade with them here on bitcoin.
Seriously, stop making horseshit claims without any base. Its not even funny anymore
It is a guideline, as stated. You can choose to follow it or ignore it

If I ask questions you get angry and you are allowed to do whatever you want ( oh you are in DT ) , sorry i didnt knew it

You asked for a question publicly, I gave an answer from what I know.

Actually its like I ask how are you Lutpin and you say in chat I am good, its still common in chat but seems suspicious so asked , maybe.

Also mexxer , is asking questions not allowed ?

I don't think I'm changing anything. That's pretty much the only question I'm interested in this whole thread and you're posting a shitload of excuses but no answer or proof about about your 4 (or at least 2) accounts. Why is that?

You were the one claiming you own 4 accounts until QS came up with a "better" excuse for you. That doesn't make you trustworthy, quite the contrary.

I've given 18 positive ratings, of which 4 are to crypto-games related users (that's not "everyone related to crypto-games", I know at least 2 more members of staff are maintaining an account over here).

If I was on DT while doing that trade, which I wasn't. If the other party would have been the one initiating the trade, which they were not.

I trust those 4 persons, the two admins aswell as adzino and micromen.
If we take a look at the trust page it says:
"Positive - You trust this person or had a successful trade."

"most people" is hardly the truth, and even if it were most people, they were wrong. I'm not mexxer-2.
Repaying several no collateral loans for a sum of over 3 btc combined could be a reason for trusting someone.
I do trust mexxer-2 for that, aswell as for other reasons.

It's a neutral comment, not a rating.

I see and probably my last question, please can you tell me reason for your trust on my account ? That QS explained , so please ?

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It's a neutral, it's not affecting your trust score. There is a reference for people, so they can check out the according threads and make their own conclusion out of it.

ok thanks and really I did not like the rating you left on me. If possible and you feel relevant please remove it, I dont think anyone is childish enough to trade without escrow ... or maybe fine as you wish :)

Because when you sell it,it no longer belongs to you or the lender who has it as collateral.How difficult it is for you to understand ?


The rating is well deserved.According to Lutpin that is not a trustworthy behavior and YOU can't decide whom he should trust.If you really want to prove your innocence contact other DT members and ask them to put a feedback against Lutpin's.

Apparently the OP has given up on trolling Lutpin and moved on to the next target:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1399840
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1399820

Check that thread.I was his next victim as well.He messaged me asking to sell him btc's .

Victim, means you also have done something wrong, else how u were a victim ??

Anyways closing this and I think if we try to change people, we get changed ourselves, people here deserve to live with the BOSS and well, I am happy with it.

so much drama i must get my popcorn. get on with it BillGate you never have a negative trust if do right in forum. next time don't do another that can give another negative trust

That's a clear threat.
https://i.imgur.com/dGFM0ZE.png

But I did not make it , why would I lie , I hate lutpin too but seriously I did not created it

lol do you think we are seriously that dumb ?

Well, I wont lie, I seriously consider you dumb enough to even not identify yourself , LOL
But yeah I dont think anyone here think that is me, if it was me why would I say its not me ?
And seriously I said that I will harm him, in the sense of getting him removed from DT and making him suffer for earnings

Because he earns by selling trust ;D

I thought mexxer was selling trust... you seem to mix things up

mexxer, Lutpin and whywefight are all the same person. Try to keep up with Bill's hallucinations.

do you even ready threads or just bark like a stray dog , idiot ? Check the post above my post and u wil understand, if still not, better take some medical advice for your brain and anxiety

mate, how about learning to communicate. do us all a favour and stop posting with all your bought accounts, opening 14893 threads and closing an reopening them. didnt you say you dont want to post anymore? cant even stick to your own word? lame buddy, lame....


i am an alt of you! :D

Quoted as evidence ;D

I'm kidding,thought it was a good spot and some yahoo will most likely take it and run with it.

Thank's for securing the evidence.
I'm going to list him, oh sorry, us, or do we say "me"?, in the known alts thread.
Now everyone knows, whywefight!

You guys have been found out! Well played Bill, you really got him on that one :D

, is there actual proof that the accounts are the same?

With the amount of accusations about X being an alt of Y, you might want to be more specific which accounts you're asking about.

Nope there is not. There will never be. Please guess why...

Cuz these people are poor investigators?
I will delve into this matter tmrw or so to see what is what

In case you need any information, i am available via IRC, Skype, PM, Email and on my mobile all day long! Please no whatsapp :)

Will give you a call as soon as my parents return my phone

i am cool on skype too!