Bitcoin Forum

Have a nice read ;)

http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/16/why-latin-american-economies-are-turning-to-bitcoin/

That sounds good, but are they? I think if any significant part of a country, or even the rich in a country, decided to 'turn to Bitcoin' the price would be much higher than it is now.

I don't really know why they aren't really getting into Bitcoin, Argentina and Venezuala have huge currency issues and Brazil's economy is a state too.  It would be well worth their while to move some money into Bitcoin, but they are obviously aren't.

^^Noticed who penned that fine article?
Sonny Singh
Crunch Network Contributor
Sonny Singh is the chief commercial officer of BitPay.

The Latin American countries are turning into bitcoin becuase the country's governments usualy tend to force capital control over citizens and bitcoin is the only was to go around this.

Better odds with Bitcoin when their currencies tank so often for one issue or another.
But I do not buy that they are adapting to bitcoin either,as quite a few people live out of the cities and its not such a easy
transaction to make compared to US or parts of Europe.

Summary up, the reason Bitcoin is booming in Latin American is:

1 local government isn't stable.
2 local inflation is through the roof, local currency is dropping value fast.
3 Bitcoin price was going up last year
4 local government has capital control.

Speculation: in troubled area, holding Bitcoin is better than gold, because Bitcoin is more useful, can be exchanged into goods easier.
Traditional, gold is the number 1 choice.

I read stuff like this all the time. I used to get excited by it, expecting some kind of a surge in mainstream adoption bit as usual it leads to nothing.

You keep reading in to these articles about how countries are going towards bitcoin as a currency of choice or a better way to maintain a countries economy but that would mean every single citizen would have to accept it and dump their current fiat. This can only happen of this government capital control does that for them. And that is not going to happen.

Lotta people in this forum are right. There are so many wrong things in the LATAM scenario that Bitcoin fits like a glove. There are just few points to consider... The adoption is very low and the knowledge is almost non-existent. The latin currencies are a joke. The government dominates everything. I wish better things but it is so distance that I can imagine. There are few exception, but they are veryyyyyyyy small. Won't get too long here. It will be a book. There's a ton of problems to discuss.

I understand many folks , including myself, hoping Bitcoin will fly to the moon soon. However, if these two things are tied together,

1 severe toilment of your local government and local currency.
2 huge appriciation of Bitcoin.

Do you still want this? I would rather Bitcoin price stay put. I do believe in Bitcoin, I hope because of limited supply, the price will slowly and steadily going up.

I live in Argentina and I find it very difficult to find brickand motor locations that accept bitcoins.   There is ONE web site and there is rampant confiscation of things by customs.  So bitcoins are a long term investment here ONLY.   Whenever I ask whether a shop accepts bitcoin they either say noor they still don't know what it is.

sdp

Well, in order for Latin American countries to turn to bitcoin, people have to buy or obtain bitcoin. Many, if not most people in Latin America don't have the money to buy bitcoin in the first place. Sure, there are many rich and middle and lower middle income folks in Latin America that have the means to buy/obtain bitcoin, but I imagine the great majority of people there don't.

Well this wont happen as the most people of that countries are poor,some hasnt internet or a phone,soo why would this really happen?The inflation at the most of the countries are unreal soo some of those people may invest at bitcoin to protect their capital but well,its already know that bitcoin community is becoming bigger every week.

america latins countries like Brazil as we know have so good bitcoin developing,they have so many store accept bitcoins,and something blow my mind "Last year, adoption of the digital currency broke records in Latin America. Payment processor BitPay reported a 510 percent gain in merchant transactions in mid-2015" and i'm sure this year will more and more,i wish Asian and europe will follow this movement soon.

But what about the richer Latin countries they won't give up their valued currency for a new economic crypto they know nothing about. Latinos are hard pressed to try new things if they know that something works already. Why change it they say.

No worries, I am sure Argentina wi pick things up soon. It is no doubt that bitcoin is most economy way to move coins across border.  Also, from wiki:

It was around 4 pesos per US dollar from 2009 to 2011, surpassed 6 pesos in November 2013, sat at 6.5 pesos per dollar during December 2013. As of October 2014, the exchange rate was about 8 pesos per dollar, by February 2015, it was 9 per USD, and by December of 2015, 13 pesos per USD, after a record of 14.

Do you think keep Peso is inferior to bitcoin?

They understand that bitcoin now is on a trend and has really the potential to be a true money, since it is an online currency we can use it as money in the real world.

The trend might got more acceptance over the Latin american region. This will be an initiation of trend setting for the neighbouring countries. The users of bitcoin has increased in this region.

Latin America needs Bitcoin, but they are not ready for it yet. The government is very aggressive towards any form of capital flight and will do anything to protect their local currencies. The education levels are poor and the country is struggling economically. Bitcoin will be the ideal solution to solve many of their problems, but the government will not allow it. You will have to do backroom deals, not to get caught buying and selling Bitcoins, but for now this is a good way to protect the value of your money. Someone needs to go there and open the doors for Bitcoin. 

Yes. thats the problem with press releases you can keep reading them but its mostly not true. No silly country/government would prefer to use bitcoin. fiat is easier to use of course and can't be tracked.

Also because of the poverty issues as well, it is much easier for even the poorer residents to by up small amounts of bitcoin slowly slowly than to buy gold. It is also far more easier to liquidate or use as well. I guess also clicking faucets and doing other tasks for bitcoin in a country where the wages are much lower could also boost small households who may have access to internet.

This is right, the lack of decent work and stable job are the reason why they are turning to bitcoin, being in bitcoin can get you somewhere else.
The extra income that bitcoin gives make most people turn to it.

Also for many who can't afford a computer but can use a mobile device or phone can have easier access to bitcoin and still get to earn as many sites now are becoming cellphone/mobile friendly as well. I think that may also help those in remoter regions as well.

That was one lengthy article. It has good points throughout as well. One of the main factors for them turning to BTCitcoin is, it's their only getaway since all other options seem to failed to live up with what it supposed to in the first place. The adoption will be the major challenge here since now everyone has internet and not all the merchants know BTCitcoin (until now). In regards to the huge inflation, I though my country of residence had the biggest inflation rate but it seems I was wrong. We've been on the inflation for so long (not anymore since recently were on deflation) that I could understand the damages done or will be done and if ever BTCitcoin reaches it's peak with stable value, then nothing would beat it and surely will be the best option for countries of such.

Venezuelan government lambasts Bitcoin as currency of criminals

As digital currency gains popularity in Latin America, Venezuela is one of the latest countries where ordinary consumers and businesses are turning to Bitcoin in the face of political instability and economic collapse.

https://thestack.com/world/2016/03/17/venezuelan-government-lambasts-bitcoin-as-currency-of-criminals/


Wonder why? Look:

http://up.picr.de/24904505ak.jpg

https://forum.bitcoin.com/post19052.html#p19052

aren't latin america more porer, maybe it's because of this that they are interested in bitcoin, bitcoin can grow well with corrupted government and bad econmic conditions

maybe the Latin america can increase their life quality using bitcoin because as we know there a lot of unemployed people in latin, so the only answer for them is earning from bitcoin, this is what i thought

The price went from about $200 at the end of last year to about $400 now - and that coincides with the oil price crash sending Venezuela into a tailspin.

Good read, thanks. Do we think Brazil is maybe the next big Bitcoin frontier? As I understand they're in real trouble while the real (currency) is tanking.

Well some of the currencies have less intrinsic value than goat shit.......... :) (i stole that from andreas)

Bless you for leading the train of though to this very special place:
http://www.extension.umn.edu/agriculture/manure-management-and-air-quality/manure-application/calculator/

I certainly would never have crossed paths with it otherwise!  :o

You just showed me statistics that support that the us dollar bills are superior to pesos.   Though for one year of putting away some money in bitcoins are appropriate, there is the spread between buys and sells,  so it makes more sense in a very short term to keep pesos for basic living expenses.  The rule is if you might spend it within two months or less keep local currency.

sdp

I know two guys way into BTC who on occasion go to Argentina (their native land), they tell me that the scene is lively with traders but (as you report) there are few outlets to SPEND.

BTC also goes for a high premium there, as it does protect a BTC holder against the weak currency.

*   *   *

But the country in S. America I know best is Peru.  Almost NOTHING going on in Peru even though their economy is now weakening.  Peru allows free convertibility of their currency vs. the US dollar (their big grocery store chain accepts dollars and "soles").

Venezuela is panicking about it: they've arrested two miners. See

http://www.diariobitcoin.com/index.php/2016/03/18/fiscalia-venezolana-presento-a-dos-implicados-por-mineria-bitcoin/

Here is an English language report:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/venezuelan-govt-media-publishes-anti-bitcoin-rhetoric/

Arresting miners? Don't the law enforcement agenecies have better criminals to go after like Drug Dealers or something  :-\

Bitcoin Price: Here’s Proof Governments Are Worried About Bitcoin

http://www.profitconfidential.com/forex/bitcoin-price-heres-proof-governments-are-worried-about-bitcoin/

Imagine bitcoin is a really scary issue for South American Countries since a lot of them have a hard time as it is keeping the currency a float.
If it was to gain traction enough if could sweep right through South America and really shake up the system in place. The only issue is internet access for these isolated villages and you would have to make it really easy to use.

The control would be lost for some of these Countries if they can not use the banking system against the people.

Bitcoin received "regulated" status in Brazil in 2013, whatever that means.

Pure LIES and manipulation. :)     Nobody is turning to Bitcoin.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/report-two-venezuelans-arrested-mining-bitcoin/

Argentina's new presiente is nuts as I saw on 60 mintues tonight  :D

Maybe they have a low price on electricity and it's a good for mining also they trying to find a money for living cause a lot unempoyment people there.

For bitcoin to really take off we would need to have access to the internet,which in some parts of South America is limited,like Africa.
I know Zukerburg is trying to bring internet to Africa,hopefully South America is next,I do realize the logistics is different with the mountains but man it would help people out. Internet access and then bitcoin use would have to sneak in quickly behind.
Imagine it would get rid of a lot of the infighting that happens over coup attempts and elections.

Are thay really most of Latin America countrys hve very weak currencys and high inflation
But be realistic bicoin has to to small liquidity to solve his problems

They have bigger problems then having a need for bitcoin right now. Like food and healthcare.
Obama visit to most of the bigger South American countries this week has shown that. Cuba is so close to the US it is a surprise the way they are the way they are now without any North American influence.

People need to ensure that the value of their money doesn't diminish rapidly. People don't "need" Bitcoin. It just is a way to escape the government taking wealth away from the people through inflation. Expect Latin American governments to crack down hard on Bitcoin. Venezuela is already leading the way.

  Nobody is turning to Bitcoin. Where do you see that?Venezuela  is arresting people for using Bitcoin. Get lost .  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/report-two-venezuelans-arrested-mining-bitcoin/

This is why bitcoin will not completely be accepted in all the corners of the world. Authoritative countries such as this that are making criminals out of miners or people who are wanting to use bitcoin such as in Russia where they are banning it's use and will probably arrest people who they are suspecting that are using it. Can't believe in this day and age that you have to go underground to use a technology that can help people out in their daily lives.

Venezuela is arresting people because Bitcoin is getting more popular.
Have a look at the volume trend.

http://up.picr.de/24904505ak.jpg

I hear ya. The headline should really read why a couple of thousand of latin americans are turning to bitcoin.

You're equating supply and demand with price

REVELATION: Supply and demand doesn't apply to trading

Let's say AAPL stock goes up 90% in a 12 month time span, is this because "traders" decided to buy apple stock en-masse and drive up the price? The short answer is NO. Any stock that jumps 90%+ in a year only does so when Goldman Sachs and/or any of the other investment banks instruct their market makers to "buy the sell side."

They push billions into the sell side over several months (sometimes several years), and then collect two times their money (or more) when they begin to sell onto the buy side over the following months/years.

Worldwide, banks are failing... BUT - Gold is plunging in price - when, "usually," Gold has an inverse relationship with global financial disorder... "Usually" when the economy is on the brink of destruction, Gold is "supposed" to rally.. Right?

But based on what I described above, about investment banks and their role in price manipulation... Ask yourself, how much money would it take for the price fixers to "buy the sell side" and push the price of Gold up? Billions?... Trillions?... Quadrillions? They don't have the money.

Why don't they have the money? Because they have already done their buying... and what comes after buying? ..Selling! ;)

So despite the financial disorder that we are seeing worldwide, the price of gold is going down... what does this mean? Is it the "traders" that are selling because they are so wise that they are finally willing to go against "the crowd" and against the common cliche that dictates that when the banks are failing and interest rates are jumping, then gold "always" goes to the moon?  

Well no, actually "traders" are still placing their buy orders - because they have been programmed over the last ten years to "perceive" gold as a hedge against financial crisis. So they are still actually trying to "get in cheap,"  but the price just keeps on falling

Why is this?

It's because Goldman and The London Gold Price Fixing Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_fixing) etc have spent the last 10 years (http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart) "buying the sell side" and putting trillions into pushing up the price. So, they are now taking their profits by selling onto the buy side, and will be doing so over the next several years - hence, the need for BITCOIN, which has been dubbed "digital gold" ;)

So thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions of latin americans may have joined the Bitcoin economy... But the price per BTC does not have to reflect this, and will not reflect this since price is not tied to supply and demand

Well their own currencies sucks,having bitcoin,will mean have something like gold,or the strongests fiat,being dollar euro or others,this are very strong and almost stable at their values,soo i believe this is what people are investing at bitcoin ,to protect their capital at euro/dollar.

OK, I hear you, but...:

1) Latins "down there" have to be able to buy & hold Bitcoin.  That is very hard in most cases, for various reasons.

2) Prospective Latin buyers need to feel confident that they can spend their BTC when they need to, it's hard to spend BTC in LatAm.

3) Bitcoin is still a tad too technical.  If it's hard for it to catch on (massively) in Europe & the USA, well...

The above comments, of course, may be subject to change.  I wish Latin Americans well (and hope BTC is an answer for many) who are in crappy authoritarian places with bad money.

Sorry knowhow, but here in South America people couldn't care less about euro/dollar protection by buying btcoins. I live in Brazil and here bitcoins (and altcoins for that matter) are only (for now) for investment (sell high, buy low). We dont have plenty physical stores that accept bitcoins.

Some people buy stuff on internet using bitcoins, but its like 0.5% of the market.

OROBTC:

1) yes, thats right.

2) yes, thats right, but like i said, the core utility of bitcoins "down here" is speculate.

3) i agree with you.


About Venezuela: venezuela is the highest inflaction on south america for several reasons, i think what knowhow said is more applied to venezuela's case. Not only that, but venezuela has the cheapest energy in the continent, some south american miners go to venezuela to mining bitcoins.


p.s: sorry for my bad english.

It is much cheaper than make own crypto, so they use Bitcoin with whole network. All Latin American countries are always thinking to get something without costs.  ;D

Perhaps the prevalent corruption among the Latin American governments and the high inflation rate force people to search for an alternative to their local currencies that have decreasing buying power every year and Bitcoin is the perfect digital currency which is relatively stable, out of the reach of corrupted officials and can be moved stealthy around.

Wendigo

You have nicely written up the future of Bitcoin in Latin America.  I think the future is good, but not certain, in LatAm for Bitcoin.  A lot can happen, and BTC is likely to do fine, but who really knows.  YES, Bitcoin is a good defense against corruption and wealth confiscation.

*   *   *

blanchwood

Your English is just fine, don't worry.

Bitcoin in LatAm seems to have two main roles now:

1) Defense against .gov destruction of wealth, also (similarly) as a means of guarding and moving capital past controls...

2) Speculation, yes, I did not know that, but it makes sense.  But, probably speculation with the idea of preserving your capital.

If you JUST want to speculate, well you can always have a poker game with your friends or shoot some dice...    :)

don't you want the same? :)  Yes, you do. :)

Bitcoin empowers Latin American entrepreneurs to tap into a truly global market by permitting them to accept payments from customers anywhere in the world without facing exorbitant cross-border transaction fees..
bitcoin would free up hundreds of millions of incremental dollars annually in Latin American economies.. so the Latin American economies are turning to bitcoin..

Guess what about this president has done really bad things with off-shoring money from the country that is crumbling under his feet according to the Panama Papers just released today.
Also naming a many other high ranking government officials of sending their countries moneys in large sums to off-shore accounts to hide from the countries treasury departments.

Its only logical if the costs are cheap.

And it just means they just need the hardware to do it pretty much, which they can do collectively if they all invested together.

And have a similar setup like in china.

I have been living in Argentina and what this guy says is right on the money.   so to speak.

sdp

Yes, that is true
Because the technological currency bitcoin where all the money can use bitcoin around the world.
So they do not have to bother anymore exchange currency..

All the altcoins are the way to go around this,but bitcoin is the most trusted and secure crypto.
I heard news about african countries adopting bitcoin and now Latin America joins the party.
Bitcoin will conquer the third world.

...

Despite all time highs and BTC being in the US news, I have NO evidence that BTC is catching on in Peru at all.  ZERO interest, NO ONE here (visiting Lima) has heard of it.  NO ONE cares.  Peru's very small BTC group seems to be in the provincial city of Ica.

In Argentina and Brazil there appear to be active BTC communities that have sprung up, I suppose Venezuelans are looking very hard at it as well.  Mexico?  Could be, I live nowhere near the US/Mexico border so I have no idea.

With the price of bitcoin in major news and financial magazines people will notice about it and may be they are not confident enough to enter at the current price because it is really a very huge amount when they are planning to invest in it,so it looks like they will come into bitcoin or either into alt coin ,lets see what the future is and i am sure people will make an attempt to learn about the new markets.

Is it only Latin America?
I think no! Bitcoin and Cryptocrrencies are on front-seat in almost every country and economy. Though there are several different reasons for it around the globe but still major domination coming from 'individual investors' who are investing in large in cryptocurrencies. Take a time and visit coinmarketcap, you will able to see that 95% of the coins are rising these days.

Brazil been with BTC long enough but had never really made it to the news brought huge impact to the price of BTC. But after Japan started accepting BTC, it bought a lot of money, just take a look at how much is the marketcap of btc a month ago.

If there are going to be more Latin countries, it should make a big changes too.

I think bitcoin has been in the radar for quite some time for Latin American countries. They might have been investors as well from those nations. However, it is not quite familiar to the general public. Only the upper class may have heard the new about bitcoin being a save haven for investors. But for the general public is not quite popular yet. But its just a matter of time before they will catch up and used bitcoin as well.