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Economy => Securities => Topic started by: tytus on January 31, 2013, 11:33:06 PM



Title: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on January 31, 2013, 11:33:06 PM
After failed IPO* of the 72TH-mine (due to default of the manufacturer) and first delivery of ASIC products by Avalon we decided to float an asset based on alternative ASIC development project conducted in close collaboration with BitFury.org. The new mine (100TH-mine) will have much better profitability than the previous project.

Summary:

Strong aspects:
-   low investment costs: only $5 / 1GH/s (4 times cheaper than competing products)
-   low maintenance costs due to low power dissipation of the chip: approximately 0.2-0.3 Watt / 1GH/s (4-20 time better than competition)
-   4 year manufacturer warranty
Weak aspects:
-   chip not tested yet, tape out in 1 month (full mask, engineering run), final simulation results will be posted in 2 weeks
-   deployment of 100TH-mine in July 2013

Details:

The proposed project is a 100 terahash/s Bitcoin mine. The hashing hardware will consist of mining boards developed in collaboration with BitFury. Today’s network hashing power is 4 times lower than 100TH/s but this situation will change dramatically in the next 4 months before the deployment of the hardware. The hardware will be located in the datacenter operated by MegaBigPower.com. The monthly maintenance and management costs will be kept at the 5k USD level. Hardware will be produced and assembled in June 2013. Mining will start at the data center on 2012-07-01. Estimations based on a predicted realistic continuous monthly network hashrate increase of 100TH/s (starting from 0TH/s on 2013-01-01) and BTC exchange rate of 17 USD point to a return of investment of 500k USD in 3 months after mining starts, i.e. in September 2013. Total income over the next 4 years after subtraction of the initial investment costs of 500k USD amounts to 2.7M USD. The suggested valuation of the venture is 500k USD (5 USD per 1GH/s, 1 USD per share), which is currently much below the retail purchase price of the hardware from competing suppliers. The venture will be legally operated as a PicoStocks project. No separate legal entity will be created.

The main risk of the project is the delay of the installation of the mining equipment. PicoStocks, legally responsible for the project, will reimburse investors if an income of 1M USD (10 USD per 1GH/s, 2 USD per share) will not be achieved by the mine until end of 2016 due to delayed installation.

The venture has 750 000 shares. If more than 500 000 shares will be ordered the hashing power will be increased proportionally above the expected 100TH/s to 150TH/s if all shares are sold. Each share is valued at 1 USD (recommended price) and corresponds to 0.2 GH/s. Shares that will not be ordered will be erased and a smaller mine will be deployed. The management costs will be decreased proportionally. The minimum price is 0.04 BTC which is below the expected price of 1 USD per share so the minimum valuation of the project is 400k USD for 100TH/s at an USD/BTC exchange rate of ca. 20 (today). The suggested price per share is 0.05 BTC, which corresponds to 1 USD per share and a valuation of the asset at 500k USD for 100TH/s. We offer a minimum price of 0.04BTC only because we worry that the exchange rate can rise in the coming 2 weeks before the IPO will be closed (in 2 weeks from now).

Business plan: http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19

Asset: http://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Sukrim on February 01, 2013, 12:13:54 AM
Why don't you simply price your shares in USD (and use a payment processor like BitPay) if your main business is done in USD/fiat?

Seriously, you want to raise 500k USD, not a random amount of BTC that might or might not be worth ~500k USD maybe in a few weeks. Also, how will you get that money then? Ever tried to transfer any 6-digit amount of USD off an exchange?!

This is just the first thing that really cought my eye here, there is much more but not worth my time really.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 01, 2013, 12:19:13 AM
Why don't you simply price your shares in USD (and use a payment processor like BitPay) if your main business is done in USD/fiat?

We like BTC :-) Of course USD would be safer and easier but I want to make other people familiar with BTC :-) All assets will be traded in BTC unless we decide that this is impossible to keep due to extreme deflation.

Seriously, you want to raise 500k USD, not a random amount of BTC that might or might not be worth ~500k USD maybe in a few weeks. Also, how will you get that money then? Ever tried to transfer any 6-digit amount of USD off an exchange?!

1. We work on a "trusted account" :-)
2. The money can wait for some time. We have most funds for the NRE now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 01, 2013, 01:01:36 AM
3. if someone wants to invest more than $1K, PicoStocks has 3 bank accounts. We can help with such transactions of course.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 01, 2013, 02:00:55 AM
Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you :)

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: 2112 on February 01, 2013, 02:14:04 AM
1. We work on a "trusted account" :-)
A) What is your relation with former bitomat.pl and its former operator Bartlomiej Szabat?

Edit:

B) What is your relation (if any) with Enterpoint and its recently announced 100THash Goliath project?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130386.0

Thanks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: crazyates on February 01, 2013, 04:42:22 AM
Hardware will be produced and assembled in June 2013. Mining will start at the data center on 2012-07-01.
I really like what you're doing, and I'm very interested, but this is kind of a dealbreaker for me. And for a lot of people, I'm sure.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: 2112 on February 01, 2013, 05:56:13 AM
Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you :)

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Bitfury had been working on the Bitcoin ASIC since early last year, and on the processes available through Europractice since August 17 of last year. I though he was Russian, Ukrainian or Bielorussian and I pointed it to him that he has that option available:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1105513#msg1105513

I didn't know that he's Polish or had choosen to work through a Polish scientific establishment. Through Europractice he should have no problem accessing the latest 40nm and 28nm processes at deep discount.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 01, 2013, 06:12:47 AM
Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you :)

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Bitfury had been working on the Bitcoin ASIC since early last year, and on the processes available through Europractice since August 17 of last year. I though he was Russian, Ukrainian or Bielorussian and I pointed it to him that he has that option available:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1105513#msg1105513

I didn't know that he's Polish or had choosen to work through a Polish scientific establishment. Through Europractice he should have no problem accessing the latest 40nm and 28nm processes at deep discount.

Well ... since I've already had a chat with the 'other' person about this, I though it worth mentioning it here.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on February 01, 2013, 07:39:54 AM
Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you :)

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Bitfury had been working on the Bitcoin ASIC since early last year, and on the processes available through Europractice since August 17 of last year. I though he was Russian, Ukrainian or Bielorussian and I pointed it to him that he has that option available:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91173.msg1105513#msg1105513

I didn't know that he's Polish or had choosen to work through a Polish scientific establishment. Through Europractice he should have no problem accessing the latest 40nm and 28nm processes at deep discount.


Bitfury has already been running simulations.  He's in Kiev.  Les is in Poland.

From the biz plan - the July date is appropriately conservative:
"Chip design will be finalized on 2013-02-15. The wafer fabrication will start 2013-03-01.
Wafers will be completed on 2013-04-20. Small subset of chips will be packaged and
tested and PCBs will be designed by 2013-04-30. The remaining chips will be packaged
and  PCBs  will  be  assembled  by  2013-05-20
.  Hardware  will  be  assembled  at
MegaBigPower.com on 2013-05-30. Mining could start on 2013-06-01, but we expect
unforeseen delays of approximately 1 month. Thus mining will start at the datacenter on
or before 2013-07-01."


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 01, 2013, 08:30:23 AM
Far as I can see, you're here to scam. The reasons are quite simply:

1. You're nobody, I couldn't tell you from Adam. Tytus, what's that. Wot? The cost to make you, entirely, is about fiddy cent. (Sure, you may or may not be related to Leszek Rychlewski, who'd be a moderately cited biology researcher. On the strength of your presentation that connection is not worth investigating.)

2. You came up with what you call an exchange, for no apparent reason. It doesn't exchange anything. The worthless assurances of some Marshall Islands shell "repaying" anyone for anything are of no value and no interest.

3. You came up with a scam for that exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133147.msg1435278#msg1435278), specifically, an imaginary set of 1000 boards that Tom was selling you (in spite of bASIC not making that many boards to begin with and you not being anywhere on the lists of people that ordered).

I did point out to you then you're lying through your teeth, and your response was that *I* should check up on your claims. No receipts, no proof of anything. You could be Inaba if we didn't already have an idiot by that name around.

Conveniently enough for you Tom blew up, and so you're roughly in the situation of the various scammers operating out of GLBSE: they get to pretend like it was all Nefario's fault. Oh, yes, I forgot, you lost a million dollars with the bASIC blow-up, how fortunate for us that you're so cavalier about that disaster, picked yourself up and are back for more. Innit easy to get through due diligence for imaginary fortunes and imaginary investments? How strange that Tom never had half that much money to refund in the first place.

4. You came up with a slightly larger piece of bs. Who is bitfury? Oh, wait, nevermind, "BitFury Group facilitating development of BitCoin-related software, hardware and services". Great. They made a splash last summer with their insane "licensing" deal. Meanwhile they draw 7MW per Gh or something like that, and nobody (including the manufacturer) even knows what the units cost. Let alone that there were a grand total of two units built overall, during the entire 10 month lifetime of the project. As a bonus, MegaBigPower.com is some bs site registered two weeks ago, in no position to "operate" anything whatsoever. To make it perfectly clear: 100 TH made out of bitfuries is much like an aircraft carrier made out of old refurbished Ford Model Ts: not seaworthy.

5. If you think that is a business plan you have absolutely never either seen one or done business.

I get that you think Bitcoiners are idiots, and most are. The important point is that those who are have no BTC, and those who still have BTC aren't idiots. Your deluded notions that anyone will actually put as much as fifty dollars into this patent nonsense is about as amusing as the idiocy coming from the bitfinex corner. I get that you think you can buddy-buddy and "act professional" and it'll wash like it has in the past. You're wrong. It won't.

To quote my ever-watchful boss (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/preemptive-strike-to-have-on-hand-for-when-butterfly-labs-gets-hauled-off-to-jail-in-corpore/),

Quote
Pack it and move. This is your only warning, and quite frankly I have no ideea why warnings are even necessary. Bitcoin is not for idiots. That means you.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 01, 2013, 10:36:38 AM
Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you :)

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)

Deal :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 01, 2013, 10:39:21 AM
A) What is your relation with former bitomat.pl and its former operator Bartlomiej Szabat?
None
Edit:
B) What is your relation (if any) with Enterpoint and its recently announced 100THash Goliath project?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130386.0
Thanks.
None, but I have to look at that :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 01, 2013, 10:41:10 AM
Hardware will be produced and assembled in June 2013. Mining will start at the data center on 2012-07-01.
I really like what you're doing, and I'm very interested, but this is kind of a dealbreaker for me. And for a lot of people, I'm sure.
I know. This is a problem, but there is nothing we can do about it :-(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 01, 2013, 10:52:19 AM
Far as I can see, you're here to scam. The reasons are quite simply:

1. You're nobody, I couldn't tell you from Adam. Tytus, what's that. Wot? The cost to make you, entirely, is about fiddy cent. (Sure, you may or may not be related to Leszek Rychlewski, who'd be a moderately cited biology researcher. On the strength of your presentation that connection is not worth investigating.)

2. You came up with what you call an exchange, for no apparent reason. It doesn't exchange anything. The worthless assurances of some Marshall Islands shell "repaying" anyone for anything are of no value and no interest.

3. You came up with a scam for that exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133147.msg1435278#msg1435278), specifically, an imaginary set of 1000 boards that Tom was selling you (in spite of bASIC not making that many boards to begin with and you not being anywhere on the lists of people that ordered).

I did point out to you then you're lying through your teeth, and your response was that *I* should check up on your claims. No receipts, no proof of anything. You could be Inaba if we didn't already have an idiot by that name around.

Conveniently enough for you Tom blew up, and so you're roughly in the situation of the various scammers operating out of GLBSE: they get to pretend like it was all Nefario's fault. Oh, yes, I forgot, you lost a million dollars with the bASIC blow-up, how fortunate for us that you're so cavalier about that disaster, picked yourself up and are back for more. Innit easy to get through due diligence for imaginary fortunes and imaginary investments? How strange that Tom never had half that much money to refund in the first place.

4. You came up with a slightly larger piece of bs. Who is bitfury? Oh, wait, nevermind, "BitFury Group facilitating development of BitCoin-related software, hardware and services". Great. They made a splash last summer with their insane "licensing" deal. Meanwhile they draw 7MW per Gh or something like that, and nobody (including the manufacturer) even knows what the units cost. Let alone that there were a grand total of two units built overall, during the entire 10 month lifetime of the project. As a bonus, MegaBigPower.com is some bs site registered two weeks ago, in no position to "operate" anything whatsoever. To make it perfectly clear: 100 TH made out of bitfuries is much like an aircraft carrier made out of old refurbished Ford Model Ts: not seaworthy.

5. If you think that is a business plan you have absolutely never either seen one or done business.

I get that you think Bitcoiners are idiots, and most are. The important point is that those who are have no BTC, and those who still have BTC aren't idiots. Your deluded notions that anyone will actually put as much as fifty dollars into this patent nonsense is about as amusing as the idiocy coming from the bitfinex corner. I get that you think you can buddy-buddy and "act professional" and it'll wash like it has in the past. You're wrong. It won't.

To quote my ever-watchful boss (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/preemptive-strike-to-have-on-hand-for-when-butterfly-labs-gets-hauled-off-to-jail-in-corpore/),

Quote
Pack it and move. This is your only warning, and quite frankly I have no ideea why warnings are even necessary. Bitcoin is not for idiots. That means you.

1. This is me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tytus,_Romek_i_A%27Tomek
2. It takes time to build the exchange, we work on that
3. This is a problem ... i hoped this will help jump start the exchange in fact and we still don't know what actually happened with Tom :-(
4. BitFury is the King :-)
5. I have seen many business plans and they are all different, depending who is the audience. A business plan for BTC mining for the BTC community does not need to contain elements that are needed in other business areas. the 72th-mine problem postponed the floating of new assets but we will work on that again in 1-2 weeks.
6. We will move, forward :-)
=> there is a picostocks thread ... we can discuss this there.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: 2112 on February 01, 2013, 03:55:08 PM

None

None, but I have to look at that :-)
Thank you for your reply. Your mention of "trusted account" with an exchange (implied MtGox) made me think about their history of bitomat acquisition together with the bank contacts in Poland.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MrTeal on February 01, 2013, 05:18:54 PM
Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: 2112 on February 01, 2013, 09:08:57 PM
Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.
Two reasons:

1) PCB change may be a last-resort fix to avoid mask change.
2) PCB for testing/debugging may have significant (but trivial) layout differences than the PCB for mass production.

Remember that there are actually two production runs: (1) short engineering run and (2) normal production run. Engineering run ICs may have different package and/or pinout than the production run ICs.

Disclaimer: I'm not bitfury, nor do I speak for him.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 02, 2013, 04:07:40 PM
Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.
Two reasons:

1) PCB change may be a last-resort fix to avoid mask change.
2) PCB for testing/debugging may have significant (but trivial) layout differences than the PCB for mass production.

Remember that there are actually two production runs: (1) short engineering run and (2) normal production run. Engineering run ICs may have different package and/or pinout than the production run ICs.

Disclaimer: I'm not bitfury, nor do I speak for him.

Thanks :-)

We will do only one Engineering run first (requirement of the foundry). The production run will follow but this is of course a huge delay.

The reason for not designing the PCB in advance is that:
1) the chips have a build in power management / leveling system that we want to use (to save on power and additional pcb components: to power the boards and a string/series of chips with let's say 7.2V directly)  ... this is a crazy idea and we have to check if this works (we must avoid resonance buildup and power voltage osculations) before ordering many boards [[ comments here are very welcome !!! :-) ]]
2) we want to use the PCB for cooling by placing (low power consuming) chips far apart (no fans and possibly no radiator). Power specs are now from simulation only. If we fail to meet them we have to cover the potential losses for the investors, but we also will have to redesign boards to deal with increased heat production.
3) BitFury can do test PCBs "in house" in 2-3 hours. This will help designing optimal boards before large order.

We will rethink this of course. If we decide to stay with the standard powering solution (adding psu for chips on board) the boards could be designed faster.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MrTeal on February 02, 2013, 04:19:00 PM
Why wouldn't you have the PCBs designed and ready during the week or two after the wafer starts instead of waiting to the end? You'll leave yourself more time, and save a lot of money if you let them get build over a few weeks instead of in under a week.
Two reasons:

1) PCB change may be a last-resort fix to avoid mask change.
2) PCB for testing/debugging may have significant (but trivial) layout differences than the PCB for mass production.

Remember that there are actually two production runs: (1) short engineering run and (2) normal production run. Engineering run ICs may have different package and/or pinout than the production run ICs.

Disclaimer: I'm not bitfury, nor do I speak for him.

Perhaps I read the timeline wrong, but it sounds like they're planning on designing the PCB after the chips are packaged. I'm not suggesting that they need to have the full batch of PCBs made at the same time, but I don't see any reason to not have the preliminary testing PCBs done and get on ordering them early, as well as have the production PCB designed at the time that the chips roll off the line. If you have to tweak the design you can, but waiting seems counterproductive.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mrb on February 04, 2013, 04:27:47 AM
I completely agree with MPOE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1495160#msg1495160): tytus' proposal seems to be the one of a scammer.

Other data point: he claims "0.2-0.3 Watt per GH/s". This is completely unrealistic. This means 3300-5000 MHash per Joule. To get anywhere close to this, you would need to design the chip around the 22-32nm process node!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MrTeal on February 04, 2013, 04:57:32 AM
I completely agree with MPOE (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1495160#msg1495160): tytus' proposal seems to be the one of a scammer.

Other data point: he claims "0.2-0.3 Watt per GH/s". This is completely unrealistic. This means 3300-5000 MHash per Joule. To get anywhere close to this, you would need to design the chip around the 22-32nm process node!

With a similar level of optimization as BFL, 32nm would probably do it. That is of course assuming BFL hits its power targets. It's not impossible that they could come in with a more optimized design than BFL has on a 40nm node and meet those specs.

That being said, I haven't seen bitfury post here and there's nothing to suggest that they will produce anything close to that in the timeline they suggest. If it's true I wish them the best, but there's all kinds of sayings about the burden of proof on exceptional claims, and there's nothing here to back that up yet.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Monster Tent on February 04, 2013, 12:18:55 PM
Just kick people in the balls. It will have the same effect as "investing" in mining operations but be less painful.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on February 04, 2013, 01:26:17 PM
I think the PicoStocks project is the main one. A group of people is investing quite big money to make it running.
The 100TH/s bitcoin mine is an auxiliary project, started as a mean to promote PicoStocks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 04, 2013, 02:57:25 PM
I think the PicoStocks project is the main one. A group of people is investing quite big money to make it running.
The 100TH/s bitcoin mine is an auxiliary project, started as a mean to promote PicoStocks.

A "group of people" investing "a lot of money" in "a project" that makes no sense is pretty much the sales pitch for every investing scam there ever was or ever will be.

These folks are muchly behind the curve, tis not 2011 anymore.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on February 04, 2013, 04:21:49 PM
You are a direct competitor for them, so you should sit quietly and don't troll them here.
Let the people make the assessment, not you. You can supply us with facts (with links), not an opinion (which is biased).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 04, 2013, 05:18:12 PM
You are a direct competitor for them,

No douchey, that's not how things work. They would possibly like to represent themselves as a competitor to BTCT, BF, Havelock etc, but so far it's just a pipe dream. If that doesn't get through and you'd like a simpler explanation with less words and more visual cues, see this older post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140713) made in reply to similar nonsense.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Monster Tent on February 04, 2013, 10:02:56 PM
You are a direct competitor for them, so you should sit quietly and don't troll them here.
Let the people make the assessment, not you. You can supply us with facts (with links), not an opinion (which is biased).

The market for bitcoin  stock exchanges is already saturated and there arent that many quality stocks to go around which is why you see so many passthroughs.

At this point opening yet another SE is akin to starting  a new forum and having only one person posting anything. You also need to trust that the exchange wont fly by night and neither will the stock listed. Its especially bad when both the SE and its only stock are owned by the same people.

The main reason to use third party exchanges is for accountability but the way this whole operation of "picostocks" is structured seems like massive avoidance of accountability and thus the appearance of a giant scam.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 04, 2013, 11:04:41 PM
Sorry for the delay, but I don't want to post without information content.

PicoStocks is not going according to plan mainly due to the 72th-mess. I have an asset that I want to float but I have no time to finish rewriting the confidential business plan into something that can be posted on PicoStocks. I hope to be able to do this this week. It will take few more months for PicoSocks to look more serious.

Bitfury will post simulation results shortly. We will discuss what information can be disclosed tomorrow during an intercontinental bitcoin mining cartel meeting :-). The power dissipation of the chips is not so important for the mine as we get 4 times less costs just by using Dave's hosting. It is more important for the designer. Also (as I mentioned before) at the same node you can get much better results if you operate the chips at lower frequency but of course you need more chips [device costs increase]. We can get the same dissipation level [GH/J] as announced by BFL if we overclock the chips extremely and use extensive cooling (now only in simulations).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitfury on February 07, 2013, 02:19:48 PM
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Yes. this is why I have not posted. Actually initially before successful tapeouts of ASICMINER and then Avalon I have thought that things that were told to me by experienced designers that basically for logic I'll get in hardware same as in simulation is not true - I simply was too conservative to trust such claims. So initially I have choosen to go cheaper technology node to perform tests and so core was implemented and optimized for 150nm node. But - AFTER other successful tapeouts and knowing that simulation match well hardware results for 130nm and 110nm I have changed mind and started to trust it.

So what simulations are performed:
1) Functional simulation - that is - that core as a whole works and computes correctly with correct timing in all corners (i.e. typical, slow, fast wafer);
2) Flip-flop setup/hold time simulation - this is more tricky to explain - but under no circumstances you should have fast-paths or clock skew that violates holds - THIS CANNOT BE FIXED BY LOWERING FREQUENCY, while setup violation can. This is simulated in all corners + monte corners simulations to understand how variations affect sampling + voltage variations due to CMOS logic power consumption; To clarify - fast-path - is wire between flip-flops where signal gets too quickly from one flip-flop to another - and violates HOLD requirement. HOLD requirement is time that signal should not change in flip-flop input during (and after) clock edge. This is typically very short period of time - but unfortunately if this is violated then design won't work even at 1.0 Hz. Clock skew - happens if clock distribution delays (and especially tolerances - as chip components are not precise inside) do not violate sampling time of flip-flops;
3) Power grid simulation - actually simple - to confirm that there's sufficient count of bypass capacitors and no parasitic resonances appear of magnitude that can affect hash core performance - that's it - unfortunately 26%-28% of DIE AREA is just capacitors :( not transistors... not logic... that's big sacrifice and it won't be stable especially in low voltage without that... capacitors placed near flip-flops;

For 65nm unlike 150nm all design is static CMOS - i.e. dynamic nodes had to be removed, because of too high leakage.

What simulations are beyond of my experience now - is say yield prediction... This is quite speculative, but we expect not worse than 90% chips that works completely and maybe about 0.1% of chips totally malfunctioning. Also performance variation would be around +- 20% chip to chip.

Finally die dimensions chosen: 3.8x3.8mm
Package: QFN48
Performance: 3.3 GH/s _rated performance_, about 7 GH/s maximum
Power consumption: 1 W at _rated_ performance @ 0.6 V, 6 W _maximum_ performance @ 1.0 V.
Thermal characteristics of package: 2 K / W junction-to-pcb and 34 K / W junction-to-ambient.

So - at _RATED_ performance chip would work without any heatsinks or so - having 40 degrees in room, there would be 75 degrees in chip - very good - without fans, without heatsinks. (THIS IS PERFORMANCE THAT ACTUALLY ALL DEALS WITH THIS CHIPS ARE MADE).

However - MAXIMUM performance is not overvoltage - basically it is still in envelope of gate oxide reliability (oxide thickness is 20 angstrom - so you can apply 1.0 V for long longevity, 2.0 V for likely half year to one year operations).

So - with QFN48 it would be quite challening to get 6 W - as basically you would really work on chilling and likely use Al PCB. This is say up to Dave how to deal with that. In my experience this thing would be very labor-intensive... So maybe they would convert/upgrade equipment later, as they have cheap electricity. However do not take this as endorsment - I haven't worked with Dave yet and cannot guarantee anything except that chips will work. With chips - I can guarantee that it would work, with about 96% during first launch without delays, with 4% with delays + I provide for this mine backup chips from other vendor in case of unacceptable delays. So overall risks that this project would be without chips should be less that 0.1%. Rests of risks that you should asses - that building such MINES are not simple, for example to build single BitFury 110 GH/s rack - it took 2 weeks of labor. This is what should be prepared on side of Dave. Labor is expensive in US. Doing it on his own would take likely 4 weeks hard work to assembly it.

I've thought to post image of core, but looking that BFL posted core image with that black boxes put over there - I decided finally not to post and wait till their tape-out would be confirmed :-) I want to be absolutely sure that they have maskset :)

I didn't know that he's Polish or had choosen to work through a Polish scientific establishment. Through Europractice he should have no problem accessing the latest 40nm and 28nm processes at deep discount.

Choosing scientific establishment is very good for such small orders. Really - this thing is more research than production. Because I would like everyone to understand that what we do - i.e. $500k order or even $5m order is peanuts for foundries. Especially on smaller tech nodes. To get seriously treated as direct foundry customer you would either have to be somehow important to them or your order volume should be at least >200 wafers monthly (to be small but direct customer). that's more than even BFL with all of their preorders could sell :-) 3.3 _PETAHASH_ per month :-) Plus - wafers are cheap but assembly is not, and runtime is not as well. To explain why this is small - SINGLE SEMICONDUCTOR FABRICATION PLANT (i.e. single tech node _LINE_) produces typically 40'000 - 80'000 _WAFERS_ per month. With orders like 6 or 12 wafers without regular demand - you're too small. I really hope that some day demand for proof-of-work chips will be high and that mining devices would be available globally. But this is not today. today we're small, and with small steps we should go forward.

Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you :)

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)

Well. The chips will work in strings with SPI protocol using state-machine. This was tested and found to be nice in second generation of my FPGA boards. I.e. instead of device addresses I just have prefix code that triggers state machine of devices and allow to access chain. From software point of view - sending new jobs and getting results is just as feeding big buffer into SPI and simultaneously reading values where will be answers. This can be done in single thread very efficiently even on slow ARM CPUs.

The goal that I have is about single ARM cpu per 1200-1500 chips that's 3.6 - 4.5 TH/s. So the question is that code should be quite efficient to handle that. Also requests are double-buffered (this means that while one job is processed in chip, another job is pipelined). With ASIC unlike of FPGA job processing would take about 0.3 - 0.4 milliseconds of time. This means that there should be likely not less than one communication every 0.15 ms.

Last time I tried to adapt cgminer for that purpose for much smaller task - 24 spartans, I had to make 48 threads for double-buffering. And to me that seems as complete nonsense. As for 1200 chips it won't work (2400 threads).

Likely I plan that code structurally would look like asynchronous state machine for I/O with bitcoind/pool with protocol like stratum or Luke's getblocktemplate. Second thing - that job generation could be done quickly from template in synchronous fashion when making up request buffer to chips. Then separate thread for SPI I/O - i.e. prepare request buffer, spit it out to SPI while simultaneously reading back data, parsing answer buffer and either send updates to chip and send results to network. I think that cgminer codebase is not well-suited for that - a lot of work would be required to redesign. However cgminer's monitoring is nice compared to what I typically wrote :-)

PS.

2 BFL Trolls here - I first thought to troll you hard, but then ... eh... I have not so much time for this fun... Let me finish and get to tape-out, I would gladly troll you in my spare time :-) it's so fun :-) For now - better troll BFL to release chips :-) I already put bet with money against it :-) If you're so BFL-oriented - then - put 'Yes' for BFL - it would be better than trolling :-)))) http://bitbet.us/bet/7/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-march-1st/

Hope you also understood how W / GH/s metrics works :-)))))) And how voltages works :-))) And that actually these claims of BGA packages because they can't fit in QFN with power requirements look like complete nonsence :-)))) As this is engineering choice actually - if you have same chip - what W / GH/s choose.... However they may be too greed to downrate chips and make them more stable...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 07, 2013, 06:58:53 PM
So to summarize Bitfury's post:

We can lower power consumption 6 times (from 6Watt to 1Watt) by reducing the speed 2 times (from 7GH/s to 3.5GH/s).
Of course, just changing the frequency is not enough. The trick is the reduction of the voltage (from standard 1V to 0.6V).

There are other important elements such as the reliability of the clock tree due to autonomous clocking of very small elements [hashing cores] in contrast to the very complex clock tree in unrolled design. Our chips does not even need a PLL for correct operation (!).

There are other technical aspects that we will disclose later.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 08, 2013, 01:45:19 AM
...
Waiting for a dev board so I can write the cgminer driver for you :)

Edit: of course, contact me if you want any suggestions about the MCU design (not doing the design, just optimal details of it's design)

Well. The chips will work in strings with SPI protocol using state-machine. This was tested and found to be nice in second generation of my FPGA boards. I.e. instead of device addresses I just have prefix code that triggers state machine of devices and allow to access chain. From software point of view - sending new jobs and getting results is just as feeding big buffer into SPI and simultaneously reading values where will be answers. This can be done in single thread very efficiently even on slow ARM CPUs.

The goal that I have is about single ARM cpu per 1200-1500 chips that's 3.6 - 4.5 TH/s. So the question is that code should be quite efficient to handle that. Also requests are double-buffered (this means that while one job is processed in chip, another job is pipelined). With ASIC unlike of FPGA job processing would take about 0.3 - 0.4 milliseconds of time. This means that there should be likely not less than one communication every 0.15 ms.

Last time I tried to adapt cgminer for that purpose for much smaller task - 24 spartans, I had to make 48 threads for double-buffering. And to me that seems as complete nonsense. As for 1200 chips it won't work (2400 threads).

Likely I plan that code structurally would look like asynchronous state machine for I/O with bitcoind/pool with protocol like stratum or Luke's getblocktemplate. Second thing - that job generation could be done quickly from template in synchronous fashion when making up request buffer to chips. Then separate thread for SPI I/O - i.e. prepare request buffer, spit it out to SPI while simultaneously reading back data, parsing answer buffer and either send updates to chip and send results to network. I think that cgminer codebase is not well-suited for that - a lot of work would be required to redesign. However cgminer's monitoring is nice compared to what I typically wrote :-)

Yes the performance and original design of the 'old' FPGA code in cgminer is directly related to FPGA (and had no foresight)
To be blunt, serial-USB sux.
That is why over the last 2 months I've been rewriting all that, getting it ready for ASIC - direct USB - which will also give the option to use any USB I/O available with the device - not just the simple serial-USB back and forward that hides anything else available.

The GPU code, on the other hand, is very well designed and handes I/O to a device with MUCH tighter requirements.

Two different people did the original design of those two pieces of code ... ckolivas GPU, Luke-Jr FPGA ... yes I'll stop there and let the code speak for itself.

The current work handling code is based on the idea that a device can only handle one item of work at a time.
ckolivas and I will be rewriting that shortly, since the BFL MCU device has a 20 work input queue (and the Avalon requires ~24 work items at a time) and thus dealing with a device that handles more than one item of work at a time will also make it simple to resolve issues of thread counts etc.

Now ... 0.3ms is too small IMO - doubling to have one job pending - 0.6ms is also too small IMO (the BFL queue design says 20 work items)
So if your queue only allows one work item waiting in it then the code still has to hit a target, that it is going to (sometimes/often?) be late for, due to USB and OS constraints
However, if you are only designing it for in-house use, not a general board to be sold to users, then you can of course optimise the choice of the hardware talking to the USB device and thus minimise the problem there of course.

Anyway, making the MCU queue (or whatever you call it in your device) larger means the code has a much wider target to hit and a much lower chance of it not keeping the queue from going empty.
When the queue is empty, there is idle time, and making the queue a bit bigger will help ensure maximum performance by reducing the possibility of that idle time.
BFL have specified a queue on both work and replies.

It would also be good to have a secondary I/O end point to wait on replies (and have a queue there also)
So two separate threads, one for sending work (and performing device status work requests and replies) and a second one getting work answers

I am going to BFL in a bit over a week to see what hardware they really have and hopefully point a new cgminer at it and get results :)
Though I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy ... as should be obvious from the above.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Luke-Jr on February 08, 2013, 02:06:56 AM
Don't mind kano's trolling, he doesn't really understand what he's talking about anyway.

BFGMiner 3's new device API (still in development) should have the threading issues we hit last time worked out.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mrb on February 08, 2013, 03:31:09 AM
Dude, bitfury is the lead designer at their shop. If I know anything about the people of bitfuty's calibre I'll say that he will have driver's core already debugged on the simulator before the tapeout. This really isn't looking like another seat-of-the-pants outfit.

Yes. this is why I have not posted.

[...]

Performance: 3.3 GH/s _rated performance_, about 7 GH/s maximum
Power consumption: 1 W at _rated_ performance @ 0.6 V, 6 W _maximum_ performance @ 1.0 V.
Thermal characteristics of package: 2 K / W junction-to-pcb and 34 K / W junction-to-ambient.

I am surprised to see you confirm this ASIC project. Assuming that your bitcointalk.org account wasn't hacked (and I don't think it was, given that I am familiar with your writing style), I withdraw my accusation of this project being a scam.

Also, your power estimate range (1170-3300 Mhash/Joule) is more realistic than what tytus posted (3300-5000 Mhash/Joule).

Anyway. You posted a lot of details, but you didn't say precisely what process node you were targetting. 110nm? 90nm? 65nm?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: 2112 on February 08, 2013, 04:32:41 AM
Now ... 0.3ms is too small IMO - doubling to have one job pending - 0.6ms is also too small IMO (the BFL queue design says 20 work items)
So if your queue only allows one work item waiting in it then the code still has to hit a target, that it is going to (sometimes/often?) be late for, due to USB and OS constraints
Thanks for an informative post.

I'm wondering why even use Linux to control chips via SPI? What is the point? I haven't worked on ARM recently, but I did on Xilinx and Microblaze. Going standalone for SPI and I2C access was a major win in terms of power usage, I didn't even bother to measure speed: it was much faster, but not critical in what I did. Only lwIP is somewhat harder to use than the network interface through sockets.

Did Linux SPI driver had any recent major improvements?

I wonder what bitfury has to say about it, or will he just shut up and smile to avoid disclosing some other, much better, solution to the competition.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 08, 2013, 08:26:34 AM
Now ... 0.3ms is too small IMO - doubling to have one job pending - 0.6ms is also too small IMO (the BFL queue design says 20 work items)
So if your queue only allows one work item waiting in it then the code still has to hit a target, that it is going to (sometimes/often?) be late for, due to USB and OS constraints
Thanks for an informative post.

I'm wondering why even use Linux to control chips via SPI? What is the point? I haven't worked on ARM recently, but I did on Xilinx and Microblaze. Going standalone for SPI and I2C access was a major win in terms of power usage, I didn't even bother to measure speed: it was much faster, but not critical in what I did. Only lwIP is somewhat harder to use than the network interface through sockets.

Did Linux SPI driver had any recent major improvements?

I wonder what bitfury has to say about it, or will he just shut up and smile to avoid disclosing some other, much better, solution to the competition.

As I said - I'm a software guy, so I look at it from a software POV

No doubt if you did implement it in hardware/firmware it wouldn't be an issue - but then you'd still need some software interface or I'd expect you'd be spending a long time working on it to write a full miner in firmware+hardware

Just having the miner as thin client to a Stratum pool may be an interesting possibility.

Using something other than USB? I'm not sure I've not dealt with it from that angle.

If it was connected via USB ...
The software issue is simply that you cannot guarantee to always have a constant small time frame that small over a USB bus with USB1.1 or USB2.0 using Bulk/Interrupt transfers - maybe possible with Isochronous or with USB3.0 but I'm not sure since I've not dealt with anything USB3.0 yet or any USB2.0 device with an Isochronous end point.

The right size queue removes that issue almost completely anyway.

I've got a lot of timing logging in cgminer with the USB code that clearly shows with some of the current FPGA hardware (BFL and MMQ) single Bulk transactions are always (USB1.1) or often (USB2.0) above those time frames.
Throw away the design/USB chips they used in the past and yes suddenly this may all be a non-issue.

Until I actually get my hands on any of the ASIC hardware, I can of course only speculate.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitfury on February 08, 2013, 01:27:22 PM
Now ... 0.3ms is too small IMO - doubling to have one job pending - 0.6ms is also too small IMO (the BFL queue design says 20 work items)
So if your queue only allows one work item waiting in it then the code still has to hit a target, that it is going to (sometimes/often?) be late for, due to USB and OS constraints
Thanks for an informative post.

I'm wondering why even use Linux to control chips via SPI? What is the point? I haven't worked on ARM recently, but I did on Xilinx and Microblaze. Going standalone for SPI and I2C access was a major win in terms of power usage, I didn't even bother to measure speed: it was much faster, but not critical in what I did. Only lwIP is somewhat harder to use than the network interface through sockets.

Did Linux SPI driver had any recent major improvements?

I wonder what bitfury has to say about it, or will he just shut up and smile to avoid disclosing some other, much better, solution to the competition.


Very simple. But better code speaks for itself - www.bitfury.org/chainminer.zip - you all can see there hardware definition in spictrl_hw subdirectory - there's spictrl.vhd file, this chip (for second spartan deployment - not rs485 bus like in racks) - altera cpld installed on every board and boards connected in chains. you can see HOW SIMPLE IT IS... and also benefits like predetermined addressing - i.e. I can always tell in frames which board is not working, etc, and easily track it in chain. works like charm. BUT - you have to understand that linux SPI can't do well with bitbanging - so basically you're moving in/out large frames - 4 KB or 16 KB - don't remember - better to look in code. so if you're sending tiny messages to every chip - mechanism of addressing and dispatching should be timeless and work relatively to spi bitstream that linux sends. this is what I achieved actually there - state machine of all spictrl chips on boards is driven exactly by bitstream sent from linux/spi. I see this thing to be superior to rs485 automated address assigning (or usb automated addressing) when something not works and you cannot immediately tell where the trouble is. Manual address assigning is big pain for bulk installations (i.e. with jumpers or whatever). I like when physical position determines address (as in this case).

2 kano - I think different ASIC vendors will make different protocols, because hey would look at problem differently... as from fpga times I think nobody actually tried to solve complexity of building rigs. say what you see now with Avalon - there's difficulties to build them :-) not goes fast.... what I want (why I mentioned passive solution) - that I can say order in Taiwan 10'000 boards and they are manufactured used automated production line, and then with minimal efforts assembled into devices, with minimal labor. Of course with added labor heatsinks and such stuff can be assembled - but that won't scale well to 500-kilowatt installations - so this is probably point where DIY-oriented people will have edge - because they could spend their time to tune equipment, however such tuning at large scale would produce significant delays as big farm maintainers unlikely will have as much incentive as DIYer would. But the main problem I see that with years passed paradigm should shift a bit and mining should produce about 20% ROI per year, not like current expectations to return money ASAP or within 6 month. This would produce situation where attack against network protected by proof-of-work mechanism would be prohibited not by say maskset/NRE cost (as point we are now - we have significant share of NRE investment and low demand for wafers), but with overall chain cost - including wafers AND time to produce (i.e. make it unfeasible even to start another miner project). But this is not today of course - first we should scale and "land" to 28 or 22nm tech node. Also it would be very nice that such device could be bought with guarantees in usual retail electronic shops like you can buy AMD GPU and not with some kind of "preorder" batch which is difficult to fullfill at this stage.

2 2112 - I don't understand why 100 ms is too short period ? Pipelining 20 things in work queue I think is not good  - anyway what you need to pipeline is just to compensate communication lag - i.e. to make sure that hashing core is always busy. tolerance to seconds of delay is overkill I think. ARM cpu is perfectly capable to handle 50-100 ms latencies, however not microsecond-scale latencies. I won't laugh, and don't fear to disclose this to competition. There's really tons of little details in this project that actually put this project far ahead of anything I seen now :-) Anyway these would be known when devices will be delivered. This communication mechanism is just one nice finding, tested in real equipment that I liked. I am not against if others will replicate this approach instead of doing more expensive and complicated solutions.

2 mrb - yes - it is me, account is not hacked. I still control web site, and posted some sourcecode. If it is interesting - I may disclose bitstreams for FPGAs - I don't consider them as secret now. But really don't have time to polish sources. So if someone is interested to maintain github or opencores version control - I would be glad to upload. At this time I don't consider that it will impact any way my full-custom design - there's many more new fascinating things invented that are beyond these bitstreams, however fundamentals of rolled hasher design still have roots there.

Tech node is scaled 65nm - so drawn as 65nm but scaled down to 55nm _optically_. So to get 3.8x3.8 die I draw 4.2x4.2 mm sealring+padframe in GDS. Then it is scaled at foundry. I suppose that others who do 65nm has the same as this is trivial part and still labeled as 65nm. About power estimations - actually tytus took my early estimations when I had no core drawn for 65nm, but scaled down "optically" core from 150nm that I was worked before. Main cause to increase power - was that I used dynamic nodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop_%28electronics%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TSPC_FF_R.png - this one is example - TSPC flip-flop - single clock and holds bit in charge of transistor gate), but in 65nm later I have found that I should increase frequency to about 2 Ghz to make that work because of high leakages. I of course could use different threshold voltage transistors (it's available) - but then it kills performance. So finally I dropped dynamic nodes and switched to classic master-slave latch flip-flop. This in turn increased power consumption roughly 1.5 times and increased by about 20% core size. So efficency dropped. But this sacrifice I think is OK, because it dramatically decreases chances that device would not work - I have really good margins everywhere (these margins also tells that really if several tapeouts are affordable I can improve performance maybe twice, but - that's too much time - likely for further evolution this would be done).  Also there exists unusual logic styles (resonant logic), that with sacrifice of area could give dramatic power systems - but that's mainly like analog design - so chances to get it working core with single tapeout are low.

But anyway - that means only that I work with tytus, I have trust in him, work with him and know him personally. This means that this project would likely get working chips. But I still clearly say that I haven't worked with Dave and cannot say how smooth this installation will go on his side. So if you're going to invest significant amount there - I think it is best to check it personally with Dave and clarify this yourself. If tytus is trusting Dave - it is his decision, and not mine. For me this 100 Th/s mine is bulk order that of course get good pricing for equipment. And also I see this as a good case how mining should be done - I expect in future expansion of more professional installations of mines - in special places with good electricity prices or at homes where this is used at heating... So it would be again distributed but at a larger scales... Don't think of it like in 2014 100Th/s mine would be something very rare and unique. It makes no sense to operate equipment where electricity is expensive and environment is hot. Those who have cheaper electricity would have edge over time, and significant edge. Please remember what Satoshi said - that mining in indefinite interval would be barely more profitable than electricity spent on mining. That is what all of you should remember, that all higher revenues you get are temporary in nature maybe years... but not forever :-) This means that efforts to design fancy gamer-style end-user devices makes sense only to pump money and doing that for fun. Because when you imagine collocation of massive BFL minirigs + their maintenance - you'll understand why I am saying this - as this product looks glossy, but have more expenses to maintain than rack or passive heater. So if you today compare solutions and check for best opportunity - this is right of course to hunt for best tech, but I think about next block halving you'll compare electricity prices in different locations and not only performance of equipment suppliers but also abilities to scale, maintenance, etc. Maybe at that time I could even disclose design as such chip and design methodology would be something not cutting edge, but well-understood and tech itself would not contain any magic for anyone. Progress is happening really quickly :-)

PS. What I am thinking also about future versions of chips - I can implement hardware chip protection-encryption. That chip would want remote activation code. This could give equipment owners possibility to collocate them without problems for example - as if activation code is not presented - chips won't compute. Before delivery to your collocation - chips can be fused with your key to verify it against challenge from you. Bitcoin itself allows to track nTime - that can be used for timed activation (i.e. solve blocks only when nTime <= <value> - that it supplied by you in signed activation message to chip). This way also fully transparent and zero-trust mining markets could be made. When there's thirdparties that not own equipment maintain security in datacenters. This is just idea - it is neither easy, nor fast to implement it - so it won't be done in first chips, but if there's demand for this idea - likely in next generations I'll implement this. Basically in few words - chip knows its owner.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 08, 2013, 11:51:14 PM
So to summarize ...

Due to optimized full custom design [more details will be revealed in few weeks], relatively advanced 55nm node and a design choice to operate the chip at 0.6V instead of 1.0V we get an approximate power dissipation of 1Watt from a 3.3GH/s chip [my values are 3.5GH/s but this is not so important].

The project combines 2 vital and complementary assets:
1. bitfury's brilliant chip [best powers dissipation values and lowest chip costs on the market]
2. Dave's low power cost hosting solution [lowest energy prices on the market]

Even though the two persons providing both assets don't know each other personally, I can guaranty that the 100TH-mine investors will effectively benefit from these synergies.

I will try to convince bitfury to stop posting long comments for a while :-) but in 2 months we will come back to the board management tools and I am sure it is better to leave this development to original authors of mining software [Kano/Luke-Jr].


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 09, 2013, 01:26:41 AM
For those who like pictures. This is the image of the full custom 55nm 64 round sha2 hashing core. Skilled in the art will recognize vertical ROR lines, bypass capacitance next to flip flop, etc.

http://picostocks.com/files/19/hkern.png


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on February 09, 2013, 01:51:15 AM
Its refreshing to see some detail being posted on the project - great stuff guys!

For my part, I have experience building server rooms, racking, cabling and interconnects.  I have already identified a build team for the May/June timeframe that will help me bring up 100TH in as short a time as possible.  The low heat dissipation is comforting, but with high density racks, I'll be looking closely at our cooling requirements & options.  This will be a new adventure with totally new challenges.  As we get nearer to reality, I will post up some stats and pictures of the facility.

Megabigpower.com is a startup company tailored to support 100TH as the first large scale mining customer.  This will be my primary focus.  Additional support for smaller mining rigs or other manufacturers will be added over time.

The megabigpower.com hosting facility is 2,500 sq. feet, expandable to 10,000 sq. feet and enjoys commercial power rates of 2.4c kWh down to as low as 1.7c kWh.  I expect it to be one of only a few viable large scale mining options in the long term.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 12, 2013, 12:09:00 PM
How is the IPO going?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 12, 2013, 07:28:35 PM
Its refreshing to see some detail being posted on the project - great stuff guys!

For my part, I have experience building server rooms, racking, cabling and interconnects.  I have already identified a build team for the May/June timeframe that will help me bring up 100TH in as short a time as possible.  The low heat dissipation is comforting, but with high density racks, I'll be looking closely at our cooling requirements & options.  This will be a new adventure with totally new challenges.  As we get nearer to reality, I will post up some stats and pictures of the facility.

Megabigpower.com is a startup company tailored to support 100TH as the first large scale mining customer.  This will be my primary focus.  Additional support for smaller mining rigs or other manufacturers will be added over time.

The megabigpower.com hosting facility is 2,500 sq. feet, expandable to 10,000 sq. feet and enjoys commercial power rates of 2.4c kWh down to as low as 1.7c kWh.  I expect it to be one of only a few viable large scale mining options in the long term.

This shit has to be saved for later. Comedy gold.

Waiting for the BTCTalk post in which Qusay Hussein hypes his plans to invade Texas. He has experience after all, neh?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: creativex on February 12, 2013, 08:46:48 PM
Bully. :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 13, 2013, 10:26:33 AM
There is one thing i don't get.
How much you raised so far? If the IPO ends in a few days, you won't be able to proceed if it's not enough, correct?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 13, 2013, 12:53:31 PM
There is one thing i don't get.
How much you raised so far? If the IPO ends in a few days, you won't be able to proceed if it's not enough, correct?

You don't fully understand Fantasia. While actual businesses back down here on Earth are hindered by issues such as lack of cash, Fantasia stuff like this can easily buy three times all the bASIC production. Heck, he could buy a majority stake in Google if he wanted. You just have to believe.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 13, 2013, 01:03:45 PM
Not sure if trolling or what, but it's i was afraid of.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 13, 2013, 02:18:24 PM
There is one thing i don't get.
How much you raised so far? If the IPO ends in a few days, you won't be able to proceed if it's not enough, correct?

IPO ends on Friday [ca. 24:00 CET].
We have enough funds for the NRE (and enough to place bids for ca. 500k shares of 100TH-mine).
Most of the funds come from investors I talked with and they pledged funds in USD. We need USD to pay the foundry so this is quite valuable for us because of timing. I will convert the pledged funds internally to BTC and create the bids for the investors probably tomorrow [they have no experience with BTC so far :-)].
It is quite common that during IPO most of the funds come from people You know. Only maybe 5%-10% are from private people that just react to the public offer.
Due to the increase of BTC we will probably set the price at 0.04BTC per share.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 13, 2013, 07:08:37 PM
It is quite common that during IPO most of the funds come from people You know. Only maybe 5%-10% are from private people that just react to the public offer.

The advantages of Fantasia remain fascinating.

Leaving all the numerous other problems aside, how in the blooming hells would you know what "is common"? You've never been involved with anything even remotely related. You may think pretending is "professional" or whatever, but acting like you have experience and knowledge you don't have is simply dishonest (and in this case fraudulent, too). Don't expect it to pay off.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: EskimoBob on February 14, 2013, 02:55:54 PM
It is quite common that during IPO most of the funds come from people You know. Only maybe 5%-10% are from private people that just react to the public offer.

The advantages of Fantasia remain fascinating.

Leaving all the numerous other problems aside, how in the blooming hells would you know what "is common"? You've never been involved with anything even remotely related. You may think pretending is "professional" or whatever, but acting like you have experience and knowledge you don't have is simply dishonest (and in this case fraudulent, too). Don't expect it to pay off.

LOL! WTF MPOE-PR BS, this is exactly what you and your egomaniac master, shit peddler Mircea Popescu, are doing every fkn day - acting like you have experience and knowledge you don't have.

MPOE-BS, you are actually not wrong, it's just funny coming from a spammer and a troll like you.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on February 14, 2013, 06:28:54 PM
The advantages of Fantasia remain fascinating.

Leaving all the numerous other problems aside, how in the blooming hells would you know what "is common"? You've never been involved with anything even remotely related. You may think pretending is "professional" or whatever, but acting like you have experience and knowledge you don't have is simply dishonest (and in this case fraudulent, too). Don't expect it to pay off.

Lets try to keep the trolling coherent please.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ZoladkowaGorzka on February 15, 2013, 11:52:57 AM
IPO's ending today?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 15, 2013, 12:04:35 PM
Lets try to keep the trolling coherent please.

I'm glad to hear that you've pushed a few more people a few more btc after the last time I bitchslapped you, but no, you're still not walking away from this.

Posturing is not going to help you, and historically it has brought down significantly larger items. Forget about it.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 15, 2013, 12:45:53 PM
IPO's ending today?
Yes


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: techwtf on February 15, 2013, 05:52:48 PM
1 How do you think why BFL / bASIC delayed (or even failed)?

2 What have been done to make sure the chip power consumption really fall in the expected range? (this is personal guess of failure reason)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 15, 2013, 06:33:40 PM
1 How do you think why BFL / bASIC delayed (or even failed)?

2 What have been done to make sure the chip power consumption really fall in the expected range? (this is personal guess of failure reason)

2.
Simulations were conducted using Nanosim on whole hashing cores (parasitics extracted with StarRCXT, Calibre PEX). Because we use standard CMOS the power analysis is quite accurate. The total power dissipation of the chip is not the only problem. The other potential problem is related to local peeks of high power consumption. This is why bitfury mentioned 'bypass capacitance', that store power locally next to vulnerable areas (flip flops).
A separate issue is the yield. If 50% of chips are broken you have problems assembling functional devices. We hope our chips will be more resistant to physical process errors (at foundry) because they have more hashing cores (>600) that can be turned of if they don't work correctly and because the control structure is build using much bigger elements, multiple vias, etc. (design for manufacturability).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: johnyj on February 15, 2013, 08:46:23 PM
Just read your plan, I think the biggest risk is BTC exchange price, is there any hedge against a sudden crash in BTC price like what happened in 2011?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 15, 2013, 08:54:17 PM
Just read your plan, I think the biggest risk is BTC exchange price, is there any hedge against a sudden crash in BTC price like what happened in 2011?
I think this would not be a problem at all. People would stop buying more hardware and we would keep a significant share of the mining market for longer. In fact, due to better power performance (guess, as we don't know BFL numbers) we are more profitable under low BTC valuation conditions.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 15, 2013, 09:16:34 PM
So what will happen from tomorrow?
Will you sell your own shares @0.04?
Will you delete the project because of the little founding you raised?
If you raised enough via private founding, why you are bothering here?



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on February 15, 2013, 10:04:04 PM
looks like they sold 518271 shares. IPO is now closed.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 15, 2013, 10:15:48 PM
looks like they sold 518271 shares. IPO is now closed.
They bought themselves.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 16, 2013, 06:28:34 PM
looks like they sold 518271 shares. IPO is now closed.

Quoted for the lol of it. Certainly the most entertaining scam of the moment.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 16, 2013, 10:37:38 PM
looks like they sold 518271 shares. IPO is now closed.

Quoted for the lol of it. Certainly the most entertaining scam of the moment.

Well lets examine:

BitFury.org:
http://who.is/whois/bitfury.org
** Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC** Sure raises confidence.


http://who.is/whois/megabigpower.com
** Registered Jan 18 2013. Over a month old, wowza, that old?**
** By Buzz "smells like a scam" Dave, as a private person **
** claims holding a 2500 sq ft warehouse, where did the money came from? I still lack over 100 BTC :/ **


This is another scam by ScamDave Inc. Nothing more.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dust on February 18, 2013, 05:47:30 AM
http://who.is/whois/megabigpower.com
** Registered Jan 18 2013. Over a month old, wowza, that old?**
** By Buzz "smells like a scam" Dave, as a private person **
** claims holding a 2500 sq ft warehouse, where did the money came from? I still lack over 100 BTC :/ **


This is another scam by ScamDave Inc. Nothing more.

Dave's location is listed as Everett, WA, and it is reasonable to assume the warehouse is nearby (WA has cheap power).

Dave: I live in Seattle and would gladly drive up to take a look at your facility and post a report on these forums.  I am also a potential customer if the business is real and the rates are competitive.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on February 18, 2013, 06:45:04 AM
Price is down 42% today.

Well now.  That sure did implode in a timely manner.

Is there any way to short this thing like a Chinese fraud stock? 


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 18, 2013, 07:05:32 AM
I might be wrong but 2c$/kWh is way too cheap to be real.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mrb on February 18, 2013, 07:23:33 AM
I might be wrong but 2c$/kWh is way too cheap to be real.

It is real. That is the rate in Douglas County in Washington State. I moved my GPU farm over there back in 2011. My last bill was $497 for 21667 kWh (effective rate = $0.023/kWh). You can check their rates here: http://www.douglaspud.org/Service/2013RatesJanuary12013.aspx The reason the rates are so low is because electricity in Washington State is mostly under the control of Public Utility Districts, which are (generally) non-profits and sell electricity at-cost. And most of the power stations are low-key hydro installations, so quite inexpensive.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on February 18, 2013, 11:05:59 AM
 56% crash in 24hrs, yikes!

Let's ride it all the way down to zero!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 18, 2013, 11:42:08 AM
56% crash in 24hrs, yikes!

Let's ride it all the way down to zero!

Hopefully no real people actually invested in this crap pile.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 18, 2013, 12:17:16 PM
56% crash in 24hrs, yikes!

Let's ride it all the way down to zero!

Hopefully no real people actually invested in this crap pile.
The only thing to make sense was if someone with insider knowledge invested enough to cover the majority of the cost. Now, these insiders selling at half the price dosent make any sense. Isn't this an amazing investment?

I did not know about that amazings eletricity rates, my first tough was: "if it's real, google must have a datacenter there". And yes, the have one. Amazing. How do you have your gpu mining farm hosted here, may I ask? I hadn't found any private datacenter with a fast search on datacentermap.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on February 18, 2013, 02:39:24 PM
56% crash in 24hrs, yikes!

Let's ride it all the way down to zero!

Where do you get your numbers dude? I'm reading 0.047 bid and 0.2 ask prices compared to the initial IPO price of 0.04? Market cap stands at 37057.3875 BTC, which is nearly double the target valuation of 500kUSD.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mrb on February 18, 2013, 06:07:55 PM
I did not know about that amazings eletricity rates, my first tough was: "if it's real, google must have a datacenter there". And yes, the have one. Amazing. How do you have your gpu mining farm hosted here, may I ask? I hadn't found any private datacenter with a fast search on datacentermap.

Actually Google does not have one in Douglas County, WA. You are probably confusing with the one they have in Douglas County, GA. However, Douglas County, WA is the location of multiple other datacenters: Sabey's Intergate.columbia (where colo is possible), VMware, and T-Mobile. And Google does have a datacenter 130 miles south in The Dalles, where power is still relatively inexpensive at $0.05/kWh from the local provider Northern Wasco PUD.

There is more than just the price of electricity that determines where to host a datacenter: local job market, distance to large cities, etc. I am sure Google had valid reasons for deciding against hosting in Douglas County.

Personally, I just rented office space for my GPU farm. Colocation always adds too much overhead costs over the raw cost of electricity. Some colos may say they "sell electricity at cost", but they always force you to pay additional fixed monthly recurring charges (eg. a fixed price per rack cabinet), so at the bottom line, you are paying a lot more than "at-cost" electricity.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 18, 2013, 06:28:11 PM
Yes, colocation is expensive, but always less expensive than what i pay for electricity in my country. I will host a few avalon at a cheap datacenter in los angeles for around 0.2$/kWh (bandwidth and space included), i would have paid at least 0.4$kWh if i did it myself at my home.
Thor datacenter in iceland was another option, but they wanted 800€/rack over their 0.1€/kWh rate.

Unfortunately not being on the american soil i really cannot rent office space and simply let my mining gear there, but i think that we will soon see a lot of florid business of mining/hosting farms where the electricity rate is really cheap.

In the meantime, my 0.2$/kWh will do :)

Btw, going from 0.2$ to 0.02 is like having an avalon unit more efficient than the BFL one, amazing.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on February 18, 2013, 10:24:53 PM
http://who.is/whois/megabigpower.com
** Registered Jan 18 2013. Over a month old, wowza, that old?**
** By Buzz "smells like a scam" Dave, as a private person **
** claims holding a 2500 sq ft warehouse, where did the money came from? I still lack over 100 BTC :/ **


This is another scam by ScamDave Inc. Nothing more.

Dave's location is listed as Everett, WA, and it is reasonable to assume the warehouse is nearby (WA has cheap power).

Dave: I live in Seattle and would gladly drive up to take a look at your facility and post a report on these forums.  I am also a potential customer if the business is real and the rates are competitive.


Its not in Everett, but it is in Washington State.  The megabigpower.com data center is getting built out for 100TH mine as its anchor customer.  There's another thread for megabigpower.com if you trolls want to go there.  I'm not even taking other customers yet - if you go to my site I'm just collecting interest at this time.  I'll have my hands full with 100TH. 

As I get closer to taking 100TH online in June/July, I'll document it.  In person visits will be very limited as I want to keep security at a maximum.

Dust if you want to grab coffee, I'd be up for it anytime - just PM me and we'll set it up.  Always good to meet local miners...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 19, 2013, 12:38:07 AM
There's another thread for megabigpower.com if you trolls want to go there. 

Your scam victims are trolls now? How about paying back what you stole? If you want to clear your "name", I suggest you start marching to a nearest police HQ, and start explaining this situation. So we can get Tom (aka you?) to answer for his shortcomings.

Dust if you want to grab coffee, I'd be up for it anytime - just PM me and we'll set it up.  Always good to meet local miners...

Just drop the bull and setup a real company, with real people, with real contact information, comply with real regulations, use a real office, and then we can wonder where to go from there. Short of that = another scam.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on February 19, 2013, 12:42:32 AM
Where do you get your numbers dude?

They're not my numbers man.  I was reporting what I saw at PicoStocks.com's page "100th : asset summary."

http://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

It's not dead yet; it's getting better!   :D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MrTeal on February 19, 2013, 12:49:37 AM
Where do you get your numbers dude?

They're not my numbers man.  I was reporting what I saw at PicoStocks.com's page "100th : asset summary."

http://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

It's not dead yet; it's getting better!   :D
Transactions in last 30 days
Shares:   524346
Volume:   20999.67164043
Change:   0.110000 (275.00%)
High:   0.10000000
Low:   0.04000000
Mean:   0.04946530

The IPO price was 0.04, and that's the 30 day low. It's hard to say if anyone is on the exchange other than Tytus, but I don't see any drop in value so far.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on February 19, 2013, 05:59:16 AM
Where do you get your numbers dude?

They're not my numbers man.  I was reporting what I saw at PicoStocks.com's page "100th : asset summary."

http://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

It's not dead yet; it's getting better!   :D
Transactions in last 30 days
Shares:   524346
Volume:   20999.67164043
Change:   0.110000 (275.00%)
High:   0.10000000
Low:   0.04000000
Mean:   0.04946530

The IPO price was 0.04, and that's the 30 day low. It's hard to say if anyone is on the exchange other than Tytus, but I don't see any drop in value so far.

The high has actually reached 0.15. Almost quadruple the IPO price.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 19, 2013, 12:28:07 PM
As I get closer to taking 100TH online in June/July, I'll document it.  In person visits will be very limited as I want to keep security at a maximum.

Yeah, you've done that once before, documenting a scam with in person visits being very limited to keep the security of being able to push further scams in the future.

Except it doesn't work. Buzz off.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 19, 2013, 12:48:22 PM
As I get closer to taking 100TH online in June/July, I'll document it.  In person visits will be very limited as I want to keep security at a maximum.

Yeah, you've done that once before, documenting a scam with in person visits being very limited to keep the security of being able to push further scams in the future.

Except it doesn't work. Buzz off.
I missed it. What are you talking about?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 19, 2013, 01:28:47 PM

I missed it. What are you talking about?

I have to wonder how do you justify your selves to associate with know thieves? Even giving them money. It's well documented that Dave IS associating with Tom, with all probability he is Tom. At least he IS actively PROTECTING Tom, if he wouldn't be, this case would be in the hands of the justice system. And HE would lead the charge in behalf of the customers. He isn't even willing to clear his own name.

Then take to an account that they at least falsify picostock user ID's to make it look more popular than it is. Why wouldn't they falsify that "stock" price? First user starts with id 19, next is somewhere over 26 and so on. Check it out your self: http://picostocks.com/users/view/1 <- change that number to check if valid user id.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 19, 2013, 01:40:10 PM

I missed it. What are you talking about?

I have to wonder how do you justify your selves to associate with know thieves? Even giving them money. It's well documented that Dave IS associating with Tom, with all probability he is Tom. At least he IS actively PROTECTING Tom, if he wouldn't be, this case would be in the hands of the justice system. And HE would lead the charge in behalf of the customers. He isn't even willing to clear his own name.

Then take to an account that they at least falsify picostock user ID's to make it look more popular than it is. Why wouldn't they falsify that "stock" price? First user starts with id 19, next is somewhere over 26 and so on. Check it out your self: http://picostocks.com/users/view/1 <- change that number to check if valid user id.

Are you taking to me? Because I think you quoted the wrong guy.
The community knows who Tom is and Dave isn't the problem of the justice here. He asked the costumer to do a chargeback via the bank.

I admit that I tough about investing into this, but I will be happy to lose the train.
The only point in favour of this venture is the guy that made the fpga long time ago. Everything else seems just smoke.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 19, 2013, 02:15:56 PM
Are you taking to me?

Yes, but I wasn't replying to you. I was talking to all who thinks this is something other than a scam.

The community knows who Tom is and Dave isn't the problem of the justice here. He asked the costumer to do a chargeback via the bank.

Well the thing is this it what I would do, if I were to scam people. CC chargebacks have to be paid, because CC companies tend to know whom they are doing business with. So to keep up the appearances, to dodge biggest bullet and avoid biggest risks, this move makes them look "legit", and big bad CC companies happy.  But people paying with CC weren't the mark, people paying with BTC were, especially people outside US.

bAsic was a scam from the get go, and I haven't seen anything different with this picostocks/100th that would indicate otherwise, on the contrary. And "Dave" by not reporting this and his involvement is actually confirming his involvement in this scam and protecting "Tom". BitcoinMagazine should do some investigative journalism on this matter, and establish them selves as a real publication.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: cedivad on February 19, 2013, 02:19:29 PM
Are you taking to me?

Yes, but I wasn't replying to you. I was talking to all who thinks this is something other than a scam.


I have my doubts, but i think to have done my part screaming "this is a scam" already:

looks like they sold 518271 shares. IPO is now closed.
They bought themselves.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on February 19, 2013, 05:43:02 PM
The only point in favour of this venture is the guy that made the fpga long time ago.

As far as I recall, the guy made nothing other than a huge black box which he claimed was an FPGA, which he then tried to sell under a ridiculous "license" in exchange for a lot of dough. Nobody bought it, and so...that guy is just a scammer that didn't manage to sell his scam so he's not proven. Yet.

Funny that they'd work together, yes.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dalkore on February 19, 2013, 07:49:13 PM
http://who.is/whois/megabigpower.com
** Registered Jan 18 2013. Over a month old, wowza, that old?**
** By Buzz "smells like a scam" Dave, as a private person **
** claims holding a 2500 sq ft warehouse, where did the money came from? I still lack over 100 BTC :/ **


This is another scam by ScamDave Inc. Nothing more.

Dave's location is listed as Everett, WA, and it is reasonable to assume the warehouse is nearby (WA has cheap power).

Dave: I live in Seattle and would gladly drive up to take a look at your facility and post a report on these forums.  I am also a potential customer if the business is real and the rates are competitive.


I am in Seattle as well.  I would not mind checking on something like this for the community.  Plus there is an old book store in Everett I need to get back too :). 


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on February 21, 2013, 01:24:16 AM
So you guys are on track to start fabrication at the end of next week?

Are you now slated for 103.6542 TH/s since you sold more than 500K shares? Nevermind...I see: http://picostocks.com/docs/view/31


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on February 21, 2013, 12:02:17 PM
So you guys are on track to start fabrication at the end of next week?

We are over 1 week late with the "completed design" milestone. After looking at the fragments of the BFL chips we decided to put more effort on simple but vital things like strong ESD protection and efficient power rails. The design will be also DRC and OPC clean before submission to IMEC, so the verification by IMEC and the foundry will be likely very short. This means that the fabrication can probably begin 1 week later than planned and the delays will be recovered later.
In any case the network hashrate is much smaller than predicted. Thus the expected revenues are still very high even if we would have 1 month delay in deployment. The business plan assumed a global 200TH/s hashrate at the end of February.

Are you now slated for 103.6542 TH/s since you sold more than 500K shares? Nevermind...I see: http://picostocks.com/docs/view/31

Yes, yes :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 23, 2013, 04:25:57 PM
...
bAsic was a scam from the get go,
...
Interesting ... based on what? Oh yeah that's right, nothing, just you saying it and thinking ... "I said it - it must be true"

FYI: Tom has started paying back the BTC.

It may well end up being a "scam" of some weird definition, if he never pays everyone back, but "from the get go"? - your full of shit.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 23, 2013, 10:11:03 PM
...
bAsic was a scam from the get go,
...
Interesting ... based on what? Oh yeah that's right, nothing, just you saying it and thinking ... "I said it - it must be true"

FYI: Tom has started paying back the BTC.

It may well end up being a "scam" of some weird definition, if he never pays everyone back, but "from the get go"? - you're full of shit.

Looks like I'm still right: http://blockchain.info/address/16yAasHr1TzLKnCpqfau78D5qFzGm8XqJg

Let's examine again:
1) We make amazing fpga that at least one poor bastard ordered and they delivered
2) We take fuckload of BTC to "make amazing ASICS" that we never deliver
3) we hold funds until we make a decent profit
4) we pay bullshit money back because current rate is just fine
5) profit = at least half of the BTC.

Fuck you. Are you with on this or what?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 24, 2013, 12:01:47 AM
...
bAsic was a scam from the get go,
...
Interesting ... based on what? Oh yeah that's right, nothing, just you saying it and thinking ... "I said it - it must be true"

FYI: Tom has started paying back the BTC.

It may well end up being a "scam" of some weird definition, if he never pays everyone back, but "from the get go"? - your full of shit.

Looks like I'm still right: http://blockchain.info/address/16yAasHr1TzLKnCpqfau78D5qFzGm8XqJg

Let's examine again:
1) We make amazing fpga that at least one poor bastard ordered and they delivered
2) We take fuckload of BTC to "make amazing ASICS" that we never deliver
3) we hold funds until we make a decent profit
4) we pay bullshit money back because current rate is just fine
5) profit = at least half of the BTC.

Fuck you. Are you with on this or what?

1) About 400 MMQs were delivered.
2) Yep that's what he is paying back and fucking read what I said again you illiterate moron (and yes I misspelt you're - but I don't give a fuck)
Quote
It may well end up being a "scam" of some weird definition, if he never pays everyone back, but "from the get go"? - your full of shit.

Everything else you have said is based on some fantasy that you hope is true - sounds like the idiot arguing in #btcfpga going on and on and on and on about how he wants the 'lost profit' he could have made on the BTC since then.
No court would pay you excess based on some 'possible profit' you 'could' have made.
Go take him to court and get them to pay you interest - they'll listen to that, but none of this:
"Waaaaaahhh BTC went up I want that profit ... lucky it didn't go down hey? ..."

If you gave Tom money, then you knew the risk.
If you didn't know the risk then you are indeed an ignorant fool.

Now it 'seems' Tom is trying to pay it back.
If he doesn't, yep a scam it may well be.

But "from the get go"? Yeah, in your wet dreams maybe, but not in reality.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 24, 2013, 12:51:31 AM
1) About 400 MMQs were delivered.
2) Yep that's what he is paying back and fucking read what I said again you illiterate moron (and yes I misspelt you're - but I don't give a fuck)

Proof or it didn't happen.

It may well end up being a "scam" of some weird definition, if he never pays everyone back, but "from the get go"? - your full of shit.

Well, if you're that certain, pay my BTC back, you can settle the debt with Tom. Here is the adderss: 16yAasHr1TzLKnCpqfau78D5qFzGm8XqJg

Everything else you have said is based on some fantasy that you hope is true - sounds like the idiot arguing in #btcfpga going on and on and on and on about how he wants the 'lost profit' he could have made on the BTC since then.
No court would pay you excess based on some 'possible profit' you 'could' have made.
Go take him to court and get them to pay you interest - they'll listen to that, but none of this:
"Waaaaaahhh BTC went up I want that profit ... lucky it didn't go down hey? ..."

If you gave Tom money, then you knew the risk.
If you didn't know the risk then you are indeed an ignorant fool.

Now it 'seems' Tom is trying to pay it back.
If he doesn't, yep a scam it may well be.

But "from the get go"? Yeah, in your wet dreams maybe, but not in reality.

There were no images on failed chips/boards/cases of anything, there were stolen images of chip designs from another sites, there were fucked up promises... Result is, that it was just what looked like it was, a scam. Nothing short of a full payback to all victims is going to change that. The fact is that he didn't deliver nor he didn't pay back, and pretty much he just screwed us around to the get the BTC.

I am not asking for "lost profit BTC", nor I am not asking for full BTC payback, I am asking FOR MY GOD DAMN BTC TO BE PAID BACK EVEN WITH CURRENT RATE, TWAT. Like now.

Someone like you, with that much of a reputation is holding this scam up, is despicable. And helping him (them, Tom/Dave) to do a another scam.. well, what can I say... I kinda despise you.







Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 24, 2013, 01:10:11 AM
1) About 400 MMQs were delivered.
2) Yep that's what he is paying back and fucking read what I said again you illiterate moron (and yes I misspelt you're - but I don't give a fuck)

Proof or it didn't happen.

It may well end up being a "scam" of some weird definition, if he never pays everyone back, but "from the get go"? - your full of shit.

Well, if you're that certain, pay my BTC back, you can settle the debt with Tom. Here is the adderss: 16yAasHr1TzLKnCpqfau78D5qFzGm8XqJg

Everything else you have said is based on some fantasy that you hope is true - sounds like the idiot arguing in #btcfpga going on and on and on and on about how he wants the 'lost profit' he could have made on the BTC since then.
No court would pay you excess based on some 'possible profit' you 'could' have made.
Go take him to court and get them to pay you interest - they'll listen to that, but none of this:
"Waaaaaahhh BTC went up I want that profit ... lucky it didn't go down hey? ..."

If you gave Tom money, then you knew the risk.
If you didn't know the risk then you are indeed an ignorant fool.

Now it 'seems' Tom is trying to pay it back.
If he doesn't, yep a scam it may well be.

But "from the get go"? Yeah, in your wet dreams maybe, but not in reality.

There were no images on failed chips/boards/cases of anything, there were stolen images of chip designs from another sites, there were fucked up promises... Result is, that it was just what looked like it was, a scam. Nothing short of a full payback to all victims is going to change that. The fact is that he didn't deliver nor he didn't pay back, and pretty much he just screwed us around to the get the BTC.

I am not asking for "lost profit BTC", nor I am not asking for full BTC payback, I am asking FOR MY GOD DAMN BTC TO BE PAID BACK EVEN WITH CURRENT RATE, TWAT. Like now.

Someone like you, with that much of a reputation is holding this scam up, is despicable. And helping him (them, Tom/Dave) to do a another scam.. well, what can I say... I kinda despise you.


... and I'll repeat it yet again

...
FYI: Tom has started paying back the BTC.

It may well end up being a "scam" of some weird definition, if he never pays everyone back, but "from the get go"? - your full of shit.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 24, 2013, 01:37:00 AM
...
FYI: Tom has started paying back the BTC.

No he is not, as you can plainly fucking see, or do I need some Tom-o-classes?  http://blockchain.info/address/16yAasHr1TzLKnCpqfau78D5qFzGm8XqJg



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on February 24, 2013, 03:14:13 AM
...
FYI: Tom has started paying back the BTC.

No he is not, as you can plainly fucking see, or do I need some Tom-o-classes?  http://blockchain.info/address/16yAasHr1TzLKnCpqfau78D5qFzGm8XqJg

OK, try again, read it a few times, take a deep breath, understand all the big words there that I typed ... think about it ... pretend the words are not too difficult for you ... or look them up in a dictionary ...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: puck2 on February 24, 2013, 05:41:45 AM
Ummm... can someone explain 100th 'Like I'm Five?'

Thanks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dmcurser on February 24, 2013, 06:04:37 AM
https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1048.0 gives a date and way of repayment and anyone can look up the rate at the day of his post so tom using anything other then that rate is a scam.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 24, 2013, 09:15:37 AM
...
FYI: Tom has started paying back the BTC.

No he is not, as you can plainly fucking see, or do I need some Tom-o-classes?  http://blockchain.info/address/16yAasHr1TzLKnCpqfau78D5qFzGm8XqJg

OK, try again, read it a few times, take a deep breath, understand all the big words there that I typed ... think about it ... pretend the words are not too difficult for you ... or look them up in a dictionary ...

Fetch the fucking proof, twat. Fetch.

Edit: You're a developer, now develop and stop protecting him. Make a python script for parsing csv and executing payments via bitcoin-JSON, so Tom can send those funds with single push of a button to make those payments. http://www.4shared.com/file/dkv2BGAu/btcfpga_refund_csv_export.html And we can stop this fucking nonsense.

All he has to do, is type those addresses and original amounts, and what he has left in his wallet, and it is divided proportionally to his "customers"  and he is good to go. 

Ummm... can someone explain 100th 'Like I'm Five?'

Thanks.

Another scam including at least Dave from bAsic scam.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on February 24, 2013, 09:02:13 PM
Could you take your off-topic discussion to some other thread? Thank you.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dmcurser on February 24, 2013, 10:05:44 PM
Could you take your off-topic discussion to some other thread? Thank you.

No offense i mean nothing by it. but this isn't off topic you have someone that associated with a known scammer and he is being quite himself; on anything and everything so some may be lead to belive he is a scammer to.

I thank dave for all is help i just wish he would communicate a little more i think that is the biggest issues he has i don't think he is a scammer i just think he hasn't communicated enough for others to believe this.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on February 24, 2013, 10:12:02 PM
Tom is in no way associated with this project. Dave is in no way involved in Tom's difficulties with his BTC refunds. Dave did an excellent job working for Tom, sorting out orders and taking care of CC refunds.

The IPO has been completed and closed, so no new people can be "scammed" as you seem to think is happening.

I'd rather keep noise in this thread to a minimum.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gabit on February 25, 2013, 05:08:34 AM
Tom is in no way associated with this project. Dave is in no way involved in Tom's difficulties with his BTC refunds. Dave did an excellent job working for Tom, sorting out orders and taking care of CC refunds.

Dave became the public face of bAsic, so he is PART OF IT, officially. If he doesn't want to clear he name, and go to cops explaining this, fine by me, I consider him guilty. This 100th project looks at least equally scammy, with falsified user IDs, proxified website credentials, "secret hidden 2500 sq ft warehouses", all the usual scam bullshit. No actual company anywhere to be seen, no faces. no names, no nothing.

All I know, Dave and Tom could be same people, with stolen ID. This shit ain't over.

The IPO has been completed and closed, so no new people can be "scammed" as you seem to think is happening.

I'd rather keep noise in this thread to a minimum.

They are selling the those worthless stock. It is not, by any mean, over.




Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on February 25, 2013, 08:05:22 AM
The fact that you're upset at Tom for not returning your BTC in a timely manner is not an excuse to troll other threads. I amongst many others had orders with Tom that were refunded by Dave in a very professional manner.

100TH Mine is a company listed on Picostocks, that has provided publicly accessible business plan and management info. (http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19)

The IPO has closed and this thread should function as a channel for communication between the company and its current shareholders. Spreading FUD is damaging the value of investments, and in no way helps you to get your money back from Tom. Please take your issues with Tom to relevant threads so I don't need to ask the mods to enforce this.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on March 03, 2013, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: 100TH-mine Business Plan
Chip design will be finalized on 2013-02-15. The wafer fabrication will start 2013-03-01.
How is it going?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 03, 2013, 03:17:59 PM
We have a delay in the design phase. We expect to finish the design in 1 week. Our design will comply with all rules provided by IMEC and the foundry. This will reduce the design check time at the foundry to few days. We expect wafer fabrication to start 2 weeks from now. In the meantime we are streamlining the logistics of the packaging and assembly. We believe we can keep the deployment date as is. We will report upon the submission of the final complete design (gds files) to IMEC.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on March 03, 2013, 10:58:29 PM
Thank you. I think regular updates here every two weeks or so, would be welcome.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 03, 2013, 11:05:48 PM
Next update on the 14th the latest (here too).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 14, 2013, 12:43:24 AM
going to fabrication soon?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 14, 2013, 01:08:41 AM
We submit the final design on Monday. Preliminary foundry tests have been passed successfully.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 14, 2013, 11:04:07 PM
Not much trading volume on the site. Anyone wanting to dump a block of shares? Looks like not too many big holders of this.

BTW is http://picostocks.com/stocks/users/19/page:2 broken for other people? It seems to stay on page 1 for me.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 14, 2013, 11:29:23 PM
Not much trading volume on the site. Anyone wanting to dump a block of shares? Looks like not too many big holders of this.
Small holders usually add liquidity.
BTW is http://picostocks.com/stocks/users/19/page:2 broken for other people? It seems to stay on page 1 for me.
At least this I hope to have fixed now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on March 14, 2013, 11:46:10 PM
Fixed.
I like the simplicity of the pages. Good, effective, old school.
(However, sometimes a description would be helpful - not everyone is a stock guru.)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: papamoi on March 15, 2013, 12:25:35 AM
hi is there anyway to have a machine for solo mining?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 15, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
@RHA ... I have added list of ASK and BID orders to the users home page. Most people had problems to find the link to the pages with these and did not know how to cancel orders. The page needs much more work :-) I will fix the plots and try to make the page more flexible so that You can view this also on smaller monitors :-) ... the page is far from usability standards :-(
@RHA ... regarding 'description' , I would not know where to start. The best way to learn dealing with such systems is to open a free Forex demo account. I do not recommend trading with real money there :-)

@papamoi ... we plan to offer hardware for solo mining but most likely for the Polish market. The hardware will be expensive but in Poland You can get public funding for this and save 50%-80% of costs [You can push it to 100% if You are lucky :-)] the hardware may be available in Q3 2013.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 15, 2013, 06:28:06 PM
@RHA ... I have added list of ASK and BID orders to the users home page. Most people had problems to find the link to the pages with these and did not know how to cancel orders. The page needs much more work :-) I will fix the plots and try to make the page more flexible so that You can view this also on smaller monitors :-) ... the page is far from usability standards :-(
@RHA ... regarding 'description' , I would not know where to start. The best way to learn dealing with such systems is to open a free Forex demo account. I do not recommend trading with real money there :-)

@papamoi ... we plan to offer hardware for solo mining but most likely for the Polish market. The hardware will be expensive but in Poland You can get public funding for this and save 50%-80% of costs [You can push it to 100% if You are lucky :-)] the hardware may be available in Q3 2013.


I think if you change the colors of the links on the right side of the account page, it will make it more apparent that you can actually click on those (e.g. links to Balance, Invested, Bids, Profit, Last Transaction).
The "action" at the upper right is also easily missed. Maybe move that closer to the middle of the screen and/or change the color.

Interesting to see you have potential plans to offer hardware for sale. Would that be hardware you phase out as you upgrade to newer technology or do you plan on becoming a full on retailer (eventually).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 15, 2013, 06:40:05 PM
Thanks for the usability tips. We will have to review everything and make changes.

Regarding retail sales. Who would want to have hardware in house ? There are only few reasons I see:
- You want to use this for heating
- You need to comply with some strange funding requirements [Poland]
- You want to prevent 51% attacks

Offering retail sales is a pain, but I think there will be some partners who will eventually offer this [same as in the 28nm project]. But before thinking about this we need to monitor the 'competition'. It will be more important for us to decide how to handle the 28nm STmicroelectonics chip than to think about alternative forms of sales.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: papamoi on March 16, 2013, 09:41:27 AM
@RHA ... I have added list of ASK and BID orders to the users home page. Most people had problems to find the link to the pages with these and did not know how to cancel orders. The page needs much more work :-) I will fix the plots and try to make the page more flexible so that You can view this also on smaller monitors :-) ... the page is far from usability standards :-(
@RHA ... regarding 'description' , I would not know where to start. The best way to learn dealing with such systems is to open a free Forex demo account. I do not recommend trading with real money there :-)

@papamoi ... we plan to offer hardware for solo mining but most likely for the Polish market. The hardware will be expensive but in Poland You can get public funding for this and save 50%-80% of costs [You can push it to 100% if You are lucky :-)] the hardware may be available in Q3 2013.

hi tytus

can you give me some more details on this by pm,could set up a polish company if needed

thanks


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 16, 2013, 11:12:40 AM
Check this funding program first: http://www.parp.gov.pl/index/index/597 ... there are others but I think this one could have least requirements. I know people who fund BTC equipment from it. In other countries programs like this exists too (US: SBIR grants?).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 18, 2013, 11:03:46 PM
Offering retail sales is a pain, but I think there will be some partners who will eventually offer this [same as in the 28nm project]. But before thinking about this we need to monitor the 'competition'. It will be more important for us to decide how to handle the 28nm STmicroelectonics chip than to think about alternative forms of sales.

I may have missed it in the business plan, but what is your long term plan for this project? After the initial 100TH deployment, are you planning on creating another batch using the same technology? starting a new project on new tech? Would you consider sourcing chips from the 28nm project?

BTW, did you submit the final design to the foundry today?

thanks!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 18, 2013, 11:58:18 PM
I may have missed it in the business plan, but what is your long term plan for this project? After the initial 100TH deployment, are you planning on creating another batch using the same technology?
We will see. This depends on the 28nm chip [price and foreseen number of chips on market].
starting a new project on new tech?
Yes, probably already in May we will try 28nm MPW (either also ST or another foundry).
Would you consider sourcing chips from the 28nm project?
Sure, but we have to find out the pricing. The authors has a quite strange approach to the 28nm chip production. We would go for full mask if we were them.
BTW, did you submit the final design to the foundry today?
No, mainly because the parameters of the 28nm chip were released few day ago. We are trying to find places were we can still optimize the chip. My guess is we need 2 more days.
Based on our estimations the 28nm chip should be 4 times more power efficient and 10 times cheaper, so competition is futile :-) but we still want to get as high as possible with the 55nm design to have a good start for 28nm.
My guess is that the 28nm authors are either from ST directly or from CMP (close partner). It will be very difficult to compete with such an experienced team :-(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 19, 2013, 01:17:42 AM
I may have missed it in the business plan, but what is your long term plan for this project? After the initial 100TH deployment, are you planning on creating another batch using the same technology?
We will see. This depends on the 28nm chip [price and foreseen number of chips on market].
starting a new project on new tech?
Yes, probably already in May we will try 28nm MPW (either also ST or another foundry).
Would you consider sourcing chips from the 28nm project?
Sure, but we have to find out the pricing. The authors has a quite strange approach to the 28nm chip production. We would go for full mask if we were them.
BTW, did you submit the final design to the foundry today?
No, mainly because the parameters of the 28nm chip were released few day ago. We are trying to find places were we can still optimize the chip. My guess is we need 2 more days.
Based on our estimations the 28nm chip should be 4 times more power efficient and 10 times cheaper, so competition is futile :-) but we still want to get as high as possible with the 55nm design to have a good start for 28nm.
My guess is that the 28nm authors are either from ST directly or from CMP (close partner). It will be very difficult to compete with such an experienced team :-(

I would not delay too much over speculation that the 28nm project is real (and will deliver on time). For example, if you had plans of building ASICS in the summer, but scraped those plans due to BFL announcing delivery in Oct/Nov, then you'd have shot yourself in the foot (announcing early had the benefit of dissuading potential competitors from entering the market).

You only have control over what you can deliver and if you think you can deliver by Jun/Jul, then you should still have plenty of time to recoup costs (and profit handsomely) even if 28nm hits the market at the same time. The current hash rate and BTC price are much better than your original business plan had anticipated, so time-to-market is even more important now than it was before.

tl;dr - Don't worry about beating the 28nm project. If you meet your timelines, you are/will be competitive with them in the short term...the most important (profitable) timeframe.

This is somewhat analogous to ASICMiner vs BFL. ASICMiner started later with weaker technology, but are now making a killing because they met their timelines.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 19, 2013, 10:32:54 AM
I totally agree and we understand this. Timing is crucial and we have only a couple of months to make serious profits. Bitfury did not sleep for last 2 days :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Uuno on March 22, 2013, 01:59:27 PM
@papamoi ... we plan to offer hardware for solo mining but most likely for the Polish market. The hardware will be expensive but in Poland You can get public funding for this and save 50%-80% of costs [You can push it to 100% if You are lucky :-)] the hardware may be available in Q3 2013.

I really hope you release retail products and not only to Poland but at least for whole EU. Little bit of competition with Avalon would be good and we will need some manufacturer in Europe too.

That said... I might still invest for some shares.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 25, 2013, 05:02:53 PM
We will try to offer hardware but this is not priority now. It is a lot of additional work.
...
Tapeout is on Wednesday. We had additional delay because we had to investigate the option to use other process corners (the foundry provides also the option to produce fast transistors (FF model)). We found little advantage of using the FF corner at or above 0.6V, but after some additional simulations we found that the chips would work very nice in the FF corner at 0.50V - 0.55V. To be able to operate at this voltage not only the hashing cores but also the IO transistors must be "tuned". We made sure the chips will work at that voltage.
Provisional estimations are below:
vdd   m   gh/s   watt   gh/J
0.60   tt   3.34   0.96   3.49
0.60   ff   8.02   3.67   2.18
0.55   ff   6.84   2.23   3.07
0.50   ff   5.51   1.38   3.99
[m: model, tt: standard, ff: fast transistors]
=> at 0.5V we get faster chips that have higher gh/joule than tt chips at 0.6V
Of course these are just simulations.
...
We understand the the most important is timing of deployment. We loos a lot of money with every day of delay. We still think start on July 1st is feasible. We selected a packaging facility that is in the same city as the foundry so we hope to have the packaged chips in house end of May. The rest is fast :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 25, 2013, 05:38:51 PM
We will try to offer hardware but this is not priority now. It is a lot of additional work.
...
Tapeout is on Wednesday. We had additional delay because we had to instigate the option to use other process corners (the foundry provides also the option to produce fast transistors (FF model)). We found little advantage of using the FF corner at or above 0.6V, but after some additional simulations we found that the chips would work very nice in the FF corner at 0.50V - 0.55V. To be able to operate at this voltage not only the hashing cores but also the IO transistors must be "tuned". We made sure the chips will work at that voltage.
Provisional estimations are below:
vdd   m   gh/s   watt   gh/J
0.60   tt   3.34   0.96   3.49
0.60   ff   8.02   3.67   2.18
0.55   ff   6.84   2.23   3.07
0.50   ff   5.51   1.38   3.99
[m: model, tt: standard, ff: fast transistors]
=> at 0.5V we get faster chips that have higher gh/joule than tt chips at 0.6V
Of course these are just simulations.
...
We understand the the most important is timing of deployment. We loos a lot of money with every day of delay. We still think start on July 1st is feasible. We selected a packaging facility that is in the same city as the foundry so we hope to have the packaged chips in house end of May. The rest is fast :-)

whoa..does that mean we're getting a 65% speed boost?!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 25, 2013, 06:16:25 PM
I don't want to promise any speed boost because after we get the chips they may not even run at the expected speed of 3.3GH/s :-) [see BFL problems]. Also we will still order mainly tt wafers (!) and only 2 ff wafers just to see if they work as expected (ordering ff wafers now for the mine would be too risky). If they work better we can use the ff wafers in a later production run => the buyers of hardware few months later could benefit from the option to lower voltage and adjust performance based on selected gh/joule. To be able to do this we need to design the chip to handle low VDD. We can not modify the chip later. But the benefits will come after the 100th-mine deployment if we ever decide to produce more chips [this depends on other chips on the market].


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 25, 2013, 07:13:04 PM
thanks for the update. how many total wafers did you order?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 25, 2013, 07:27:04 PM
18 wafers (more than 200TH/s). 1/2 goes for the mine. 1/4 is already sold as chips to undisclosed manufacturers. They will use them to produce hardware for customers [but who knows when this will be ready]. Rest goes for own development.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on March 26, 2013, 11:48:31 AM
Świetne wieści. Pora napisać nowy raport na Picostocks.
Cyfry robią spore wrażenie. Gdy układy będą gotowe i sprawdzone z chęcią bym kupił trochę. Oczywiście jeśli udostępnicie dokumentację ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 26, 2013, 01:19:19 PM
Świetne wieści. Pora napisać nowy raport na Picostocks.
I will post a report, after the design is submitted. I also wait for this impatiently :-)
Cyfry robią spore wrażenie. Gdy układy będą gotowe i sprawdzone z chęcią bym kupił trochę. Oczywiście jeśli udostępnicie dokumentację ;)
Selling chips will be easier than selling hardware (less paperwork and less clients), but before we sell anything (more) we want to have precise characteristics available. This will be available end of May the soonest :-( My expectation is that in 2014 only 28nm chips (or better) will remain on the market, so timing will be also crucial (as always).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: senseless on March 28, 2013, 08:56:57 AM
18 wafers (more than 200TH/s). 1/2 goes for the mine. 1/4 is already sold as chips to undisclosed manufacturers. They will use them to produce hardware for customers [but who knows when this will be ready]. Rest goes for own development.

It would probably be wise to publish a list of who purchased chips because of the number of scams popping up online. They will all just be marked as scams instantly and ignored as soon as they announce their product.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on March 28, 2013, 11:30:05 AM
18 wafers (more than 200TH/s). 1/2 goes for the mine. 1/4 is already sold as chips to undisclosed manufacturers. They will use them to produce hardware for customers [but who knows when this will be ready]. Rest goes for own development.

It would probably be wise to publish a list of who purchased chips because of the number of scams popping up online. They will all just be marked as scams instantly and ignored as soon as they announce their product.

Much like this scam has been identified as such back in Feb (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1495160#msg1495160).

Doth not surprise me he's trying to support his fellows by lending vague support to scammy claims.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: VeeMiner on March 28, 2013, 11:40:48 AM
someone should make a list of potential scam ASIC companies, there are so many nowadays and everyone is talking about hundreds of Thash/s


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 28, 2013, 12:07:17 PM
Tape out submitted.
The mask production start tomorrow with the lowest layer. Then ca. 1.5days per layer is needed and we need 31 layers => the wafers will be ready in 2 months. We actually still work on design of minor elements while lower masks are produced. We have left arrays of NADN2 cells that we can later connect to build logic with it [something like fpga hardcopy :-)]. We have approximately 2 weeks to get to the stage where the connections have to be final. After the 2 weeks we will start planning the board, work on followup logistics and talk with suppliers and manufacturers for the final devices.
We can not tell who we sell the chips to, unless the customer wants to disclose this. Any serious ASIC miner manufacturer will disclose the source of the chips. Saying that the company XXX does not have our chips does not mean they have no chips and does not stop any scams :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on March 28, 2013, 08:02:58 PM
18 wafers (more than 200TH/s). 1/2 goes for the mine. 1/4 is already sold as chips to undisclosed manufacturers. They will use them to produce hardware for customers [but who knows when this will be ready]. Rest goes for own development.

What are the long term plans for the 100TH security? Will the capacity be expanded? If so, what kind of share dilution will there be? Was funding for these 3 projects separate or all under the umbrella of the "100th"? With Asicminer, they have a separate company, bitfountain, that owns the majority of shares, but I believe future development and hashing power is added to the total capacity of ASICMINER. Is this project similar or are the other business activities separate ventures?

thanks


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on March 28, 2013, 11:06:58 PM
What are the long term plans for the 100TH security?
1. We will discuss with FinCEN the legal aspects of bitcoin mining in US :-)
2. Dave is preparing tha data center for "cyber" attacks
3. There is no theft protection ... we will think about this
Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.
If so, what kind of share dilution will there be? Was funding for these 3 projects separate or all under the umbrella of the "100th"? With Asicminer, they have a separate company, bitfountain, that owns the majority of shares, but I believe future development and hashing power is added to the total capacity of ASICMINER. Is this project similar or are the other business activities separate ventures?
Funding is independent. Even if there would be no funds raised the project would continue as planned. The IPO* was intended mainly to test the shares as a distribution channel. However after publishing the FinCEN guidelines we believe the shares could be less risky for US miners than possession of mining equipment :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on April 04, 2013, 09:43:36 PM
Zmienił się raport na Picostocks, może warto również tutaj zamieścić info?

On Picostocks site report have been changed, maybe it's worth to publish it here?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: joris on April 04, 2013, 10:17:26 PM
Zmienił się raport na Picostocks, może warto również tutaj zamieścić info?

On Picostocks site report have been changed, maybe it's worth to publish it here?

like this copy-paste?

Chip production update
The wafers will be completed on 2013-05-19 (May 19th). We are negotiating the timing of packaging now. 
Created on 2013-04-04 11:50:00 by Leszek Rychlewski;
Published on 2013-04-04 11:52:06 by koji;


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on April 04, 2013, 10:35:34 PM
The wafers will be completed on 2013-05-19 (May 19th).
Quote from: Business Plan
Wafers will be completed on 2013-04-20. (...),
but we expect unforeseen delays of approximately 1 month.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on April 05, 2013, 11:35:41 AM
The wafers will be completed on 2013-05-19 (May 19th).
Quote from: Business Plan
Wafers will be completed on 2013-04-20. (...),
but we expect unforeseen delays of approximately 1 month.

Lol


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mrb on April 13, 2013, 03:20:50 AM
Wow, someone bought ~1600 shares, with the last and highest trade at 0.0707 BTC. Already 77% higher than the IPO price (0.04 BTC)!

http://picostocks.com/stocks/transactions/19


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on April 13, 2013, 06:37:59 AM
Yep, someone had to make good bussines when price dropped and now is investing <- speculation...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: DBG on April 13, 2013, 12:53:09 PM
Great news on the wafers; I'd be happy to send a bottle of wine from Italy to Poland if you want to PM me a postal address (although maybe it would be premature to start celebrating successful wafer creation when so much more in ahead =p).  Is it just me or are there no stocks available for sale at any price?  I totally missed the IPO and was only able to buy 2 shares @ 0.06BTC.  I'm not sure if I'm reading the site wrong or if there are really no open asks orders at the moment.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on April 13, 2013, 08:09:15 PM
Spread is huge and volume is very low [close to none]. This will change when the stock starts generating revenues. We don't accept bottles of wine yet. Only after we confirm that the chip works and only if it works within 20% of the predicted performance :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mrb on April 14, 2013, 07:35:44 AM
The lowest ask is at 0.1 BTC right now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: magnificat_mafia on April 17, 2013, 12:32:18 AM
How do you withdraw coins from your account?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on April 17, 2013, 09:37:19 AM
Right side: click Balance.
Top right side click withdraw. Minimum 1.0 BTC.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: troner on April 20, 2013, 10:46:01 AM
Hello Tytus,

I am considering an investment in "100TH/s" project stocks. I have read the business plan and the forum posts carefully. But there are unanswered questions which are crucial for potential investor.

I believe that in one of your previous post you misunderstood the original question. The sentence
Quote
What are the long term plans for the 100TH security?
wasn't about physical security of the project, the poster was rather talking about long term plans with the stocks! (securities = stocks).

This is very important. I would like to kindly ask you to answer the following questions:

1) Do you guarantee you will not issue more stocks in the future? I have concerns about share dilution.
2) Can you clarify long-term goals with this project? E.g will you order another batch of chips, will you develop new-generation? Simply, will you try to keep stable piece of the total hashrate pie? If so, which funds will be used for that? And, the most important thing, will this happen under the current project or not? I mean will current shareholders be in or out?
3) Correct me if I'm wrong but I have seen nowhere (!) that you plan to sell the chips or even produce more of them. It's not mentioned in the b-plan either here on this forum. And now you are saying that you ordered double hashrate and one quarter of it is already sold (!). Will shareholders benefit from this transaction? If not, how will this revenues be used? Another quarter "goes for own development" - it probably means you will mine on these chips and make profit, won't you? Don't tell me you need 50 TH for technical development...

Serious investor simply needs more transparency, he/she needs to know if this is only one-time project or a sustainable long-term ship where he/she will always be onboard. So far it doesn't seem to me like that, it seems you used money from shareholders also to fund your own private sub-project.

Thanks in advance for clarifying it all...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on April 21, 2013, 06:44:39 AM
web site down?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: jeprokzki on April 21, 2013, 07:59:40 AM
is there a guide how to invest here? im interested please pm me


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on April 21, 2013, 10:56:56 AM
is there a guide how to invest here? im interested please pm me
1. Go to https://picostocks.com
2. Register an account using an e-mail and bitcoin address that belongs to you.
3. Transfer bitcoins to your picostocks account.
4. Buy shares of 100TH


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: jeprokzki on April 21, 2013, 05:22:37 PM
Thank you sir.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on April 22, 2013, 10:45:25 PM
wow nice to see the price trending up...albiet on low volume, but still nice.

1 month until we see the chips!

tytus, did you guys fill in those NAND2s?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mokahless on April 24, 2013, 07:32:20 AM
I wrote this up over the course of a few hours while I tried to deal with this whole issue.

I thought I might be interested in investing a bit so I threw some into my account. I changed my mind, however. But when attempting to get my funds back, I got the message:

"Amount must be > 1.0"

Nowhere on the site am I warned about this withdraw limit prior to this message.

So I panicked and sent the difference to the account, paying a 0.001 transaction fee because the client told me it was over the size limit.

Waited for the 5 confirmations.

Shit. > 1.0 not >= 1.0

Phew, 1.0005 works because the transaction fee is taken from the total you want to withdraw, not from the rest of the amount in your account (unlike mtgox)

Now it's queued? How long do I have to wait? No information is given. I guess it will be a while.

So due to going through all this and the not-so-well-organized design of the website, I will not be dealing with picostocks ever again.

Accepted... still no activity on my wallet though. There seems to be a lack of information on what these statuses mean. I assume it won't be sent until the status is "done"?

several more minutes and still no transaction activity noted on blockchain.info...

status "busy". Now I have an unconfirmed transaction of 1BTC back to my address. This is finally over.

While I was fixing up this post formatting, a block was found and I have one confirmation. Even better :)



Anyway, that was my experience.

So this is:

1. A heads-up to anyone to either put in enough BTC to cover both the investment and add 1BTC more so you can get your change back or only send the exact amount you are investing.

2. A request to Tytus. Please either make it clear somewhere that this is your policy or remove the policy. It's not much when BTC was worth $10 each but now I could have over $100 tied up because of the policy.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on April 24, 2013, 12:44:23 PM
I would like to say BIG THANKS to Tytus here in public forum. I've had issue with my wallet, address generated by my wallet and registered at picostocks is somehow lost. BTCs sended there lands in cyberspace and not in my wallet :( Tytus was kind to change it for address that is known for my wallet, of course after I confirmed that account belongs to me. He didn't have to, but he did, and I'm happy that my BTC are safe now. I'm suspecting that this issue is somewhat corelatted with blockchain fork, I was generating that feral address a few days after that happend. I have old copies of my wallet but trying restore old blockchain and reindexing didn't help. So, another 5BTC maybe counted as lost forever....

BTW: in that process minimum withdraw amount from PicoStocks have been change to 0.01.

Thanks again Tytus...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 06, 2013, 07:55:03 PM


2 weeks until the chips are done.

how's the datacenter readiness?

are PCBs done/ready?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on May 06, 2013, 10:27:25 PM
Last report on Picostocks:
Chip production update
The wafers will be completed on 2013-05-19 (May 19th). We are negotiating the timing of packaging now. 
Created on 2013-04-04 11:50:00    by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-04-04 11:52:06    by koji;

So, chips are not done yet.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 07, 2013, 09:35:05 PM
Looks like chips will be done a little sooner than previously stated. May 16th according to Bitfury.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2059977#msg2059977

Google translate doesn't work the best, but this is interesting/concerning:

Quote
By production we scored Minimal to 25 wafers per month, BUT, the number of additions can be specified term starts. That is, minimum increase will be 0.5 Ph / s monthly planning, limited the maximum number of willing Main.

They intend to pump out 0.5 PH/s per month?? Is something lost in translation there? As tytus stated earlier, that hashing power will not be part of the 100TH project, but that hashing power is not taken into account in the business plan either...

Tytus, can you clarify future plans for chip production? I understand your other projects are separate, but it would be nice to know what impact they will have on this project.

It would also be nice if you would consider converting 100TH or starting another security so that investors can take advantage of future hashing power. I understand that since you're already funded, it might be more lucrative to self mine, but selling a security based on future earnings/hashing power can also reduce risk for you. A security trading at 3X, 4X or 10X future earnings (like ASICMINER) could provide some short term stability if you cash out a portion of your holdings.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: pitchbend on May 08, 2013, 03:41:19 PM
I've read carefully this thread and the business plan but I failed to find more info on how dividends will be paid.

Will they be paid on a monthly or weekly basis? It's stated that 1 share equals 200MHashes, are operating costs already deducted here? meaning we can expect 1 share to yield the same revenue of a 200Mhashes device?

Also it isn't mentioned o which pool will the rig mine, will we need to deduct pool fees from our dividends also?

It looks promising to me but I'm a little lost finding how dividends will work so I can calculate ROI at current share price.

Thanks


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 08, 2013, 04:58:03 PM
from what i remember, there is a $5000 monthly cost for colocation and dividends will be paid monthly(i think).

not sure about the pool though...since megabigpower says they will have their own pool, i'm assuming 100TH will use that pool (basically it's own pool/solo mining).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on May 08, 2013, 08:02:39 PM
from what i remember, there is a $5000 monthly cost for colocation and dividends will be paid monthly(i think).

not sure about the pool though...since megabigpower says they will have their own pool, i'm assuming 100TH will use that pool (basically it's own pool/solo mining).
Well I imagine they'll be running their own multiple "solo pools" in different locations with the mining divided up among them and failover to the others of course ... and external mining software, not firmware ... unlike someone else ...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: pitchbend on May 09, 2013, 12:38:43 AM
yes I know the colocation costs are expected to be around $5000.

But what isn't clear is if the 200Mhashes per share figure has been calculated after deducting those costs, meaning we keep everything generated by those 200Mh OR if the dividends we can expect are those 200Mh MINUS colocation costs MINUS pool fees.

BTW ASICMINER mines in pools, so I'm not sure if even with 100TH pursuing block rewards solo mining makes more statistical sense. 

from what i remember, there is a  monthly cost for colocation and dividends will be paid monthly(i think).

not sure about the pool though...since megabigpower says they will have their own pool, i'm assuming 100TH will use that pool (basically it's own pool/solo mining).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 09, 2013, 01:05:39 AM
yes I know the colocation costs are expected to be around $5000.

But what isn't clear is if the 200Mhashes per share figure has been calculated after deducting those costs, meaning we keep everything generated by those 200Mh OR if the dividends we can expect are those 200Mh MINUS colocation costs MINUS pool fees.

BTW ASICMINER mines in pools, so I'm not sure if even with 100TH pursuing block rewards solo mining makes more statistical sense. 

from what i remember, there is a  monthly cost for colocation and dividends will be paid monthly(i think).

not sure about the pool though...since megabigpower says they will have their own pool, i'm assuming 100TH will use that pool (basically it's own pool/solo mining).

I doubt the 200MHs/share number factors in infrastructure costs. Since the price of bitcoin has risen so much, running costs (at least initially) will be trivial relative to hashing power and variance.

ASICMINER will be solo mining shortly.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on May 09, 2013, 11:14:26 AM
i'm lost. how trustworthy is this project and why does their website kind of suck as of the moment.
anyone who can clue me in on  actual current situation


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on May 09, 2013, 12:06:36 PM
i'm lost. how trustworthy is this project

Use Google and your common sense by looking for what the founders did in the past. Why would you trust someone here to tell you if this project is trustworthy?

and why does their website kind of suck as of the moment.
anyone who can clue me in on  actual current situation

They don't have a website (ASICMINER, the other ASIC-based mining operation doesn't have one either). What you refer to may be the exchange on which shares of 100TH can be traded.
If you care about bells and whistles to establish trust, you are in for a severe disappointment. For example several nicer-looking websites have been hacked and lost the assets of their users in the past.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on May 10, 2013, 12:43:23 AM
i'm lost. how trustworthy is this project

Use Google and your common sense by looking for what the founders did in the past. Why would you trust someone here to tell you if this project is trustworthy?

and why does their website kind of suck as of the moment.
anyone who can clue me in on  actual current situation

They don't have a website (ASICMINER, the other ASIC-based mining operation doesn't have one either). What you refer to may be the exchange on which shares of 100TH can be traded.
If you care about bells and whistles to establish trust, you are in for a severe disappointment. For example several nicer-looking websites have been hacked and lost the assets of their users in the past.

sure, but.... marhsall islands!?
i assume there's been stuff that's been happening where someone can update on the current situation. i'm not expecting a great site but there's a big difference between a site a 13 year old makes and one that someone making asics should commission (some degree of professionalism can't hurt)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on May 10, 2013, 01:02:01 AM
sure, but.... marhsall islands!?

Bitcoin-based exchanges under US jurisdiction don't seem to be viable. Look-it up.

i assume there's been stuff that's been happening where someone can update on the current situation. i'm not expecting a great site but there's a big difference between a site a 13 year old makes and one that someone making asics should commission (some degree of professionalism can't hurt)

Frankly, putting money for a nice looking page is a waste. Bitcoin investors are technical people. As long as it works and it's not hacked, personally I don't care what it looks like. I'm more likely to develop a tool to interface with such a site than looking at it.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on May 10, 2013, 01:44:50 AM
i assume there's been stuff that's been happening where someone can update on the current situation. i'm not expecting a great site but there's a big difference between a site a 13 year old makes and one that someone making asics should commission (some degree of professionalism can't hurt)

You've never seen MPex, have you?   ;D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Franktank on May 12, 2013, 04:24:56 PM
Things are starting to heat up.... (http://bitbet.us/bet/450/bitfurys-asic-will-work-with-power-1)

Will be watching this one closely now...



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: johnny5 on May 12, 2013, 09:12:48 PM
1. Go to https://picostocks.com
2. Register an account using an e-mail and bitcoin address that belongs to you.
3. Transfer bitcoins to your picostocks account.
4. Buy shares of 100TH

Care to elaborate on step 4 a bit more?  I don't see anywhere on picostocks.com where I can enter in an Ask or a Bid or purchase any shares. (I've deposited funds which are there, but how to invest them, is puzzling me.)

Found the problem I was having (no withdraw, or buy/sell links, or a lot of other content, for that matter) - the UI of picostocks is broken on the Chrome version I was using (25.xx on osx 10.6)  Logged into the site on safari, and all is well.

Updating Chrome now to see if that fixes it.  Indeed, Chrome Version 26.0.1410.65 renders the site properly.  v25.xx was buggered


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ZoladkowaGorzka on May 13, 2013, 12:16:37 PM
Any official update on the current status?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on May 13, 2013, 04:51:44 PM
Propably there's nothing new. Bitfury is awaiting first prototypes. He expect to recive bare wafers on may 16th. And there's another few days to package chips. Then assembly them onto PCB and test. My guess is that we may expect some news at the end of the month.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ecliptic on May 14, 2013, 08:03:17 PM
Propably there's nothing new. Bitfury is awaiting first prototypes. He expect to recive bare wafers on may 16th. And there's another few days to package chips. Then assembly them onto PCB and test. My guess is that we may expect some news at the end of the month.
And then remember literally everything is in russian.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on May 14, 2013, 09:26:12 PM
Anyway, other than things in this thread, where can I find more informations about these guys and their company?
here (https://picostocks.com/businessplan/19)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 15, 2013, 05:33:26 AM
Watching. Carefully.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Fabrizio89 on May 16, 2013, 08:56:43 AM
He expect to recive bare wafers on may 16th.

Today's the day.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on May 16, 2013, 12:11:55 PM
Wafers still need to be thinned, diced and packed. I'm expecting chips in ~2 weeks. Fingers crossed!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on May 17, 2013, 10:46:10 AM
Wafers still need to be thinned, diced and packed. I'm expecting chips in ~2 weeks. Fingers crossed!

Two weeks? Now where have I heard that one before....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on May 19, 2013, 01:17:39 PM
Wafers still need to be thinned, diced and packed. I'm expecting chips in ~2 weeks. Fingers crossed!
I can't see anything  about this.  https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19
You guys should update the reports.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: hak8or on May 19, 2013, 05:40:35 PM
Seeing as another user had a problem with the withdrawal, can anyone confirm or deny that you need at least 1 BTC to withdraw from them? As the previous user has not seen anything on the website about this limit, I don't either.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on May 19, 2013, 07:31:15 PM
You can withdraw 0.01 BTC. But you must include network fee, so minimum that will work is 0.0105.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: midnightmagic on May 19, 2013, 08:02:57 PM
Uh.

In the business plan, here: https://picostocks.com/businessplan/19 (https://picostocks.com/businessplan/19) they make the strange claim on p.9, pp.1:

In contrast, Avalon will produce chips for the solo mining of a closely related venture
(ASICMINER).


This is quite the claim. I'm not sure what to make of it.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on May 19, 2013, 08:20:48 PM
Uh.

In the business plan, here: https://picostocks.com/businessplan/19 (https://picostocks.com/businessplan/19) they make the strange claim on p.9, pp.1:

In contrast, Avalon will produce chips for the solo mining of a closely related venture
(ASICMINER).


This is quite the claim. I'm not sure what to make of it.

The 100TH mine was initially the 72TH mine IIRC they planned to build their farm with bASIC. When the bASIC project started to sink they cancelled the 72TH mine and started the 100TH mine.

There were rumors that ASICMINER might have done something similar with Avalon (and there are still although they can easily be disproved by people having purchased both Avalon chips and ASICMINER chips).

I don't know if there was a basis for these rumors though (maybe the 100TH people were mistaken). At least I remember that in late 2012 ASICMINER was clearly planning on mining with their own in-house designed chips. Maybe the business plan was copy-pasted from an earlier version and the mistake remained. I don't see how they could benefit from spreading this rumour: the source of the chips doesn't matter much, the hashrate/$ and hashrate/W are by far the most relevant parameters.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on May 20, 2013, 12:06:54 PM
Yes, it's of no importance.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 20, 2013, 08:25:50 PM
chips should be done today?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2174517#msg2174517

Quote from: rPman on May 16, 2013, 08:22:36 PM
bitfury, what's with the timing of the receipt of the sample chip? seems it was about May 16? ...
how are you?

Yes, the original was 16, now 20 - 2 FF-plate and 24 - 16 normal TT-plate.
FF will go to korpusirovku (fast-fast corner) chips on the very first test - when - still do not know.
possible to FF and dispute lose - xs they guzzle more work faster but judging by model. And can
not lose - we'll see ....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 21, 2013, 06:02:58 PM
BTW, YiFu from Avalon had lots of good things to say about Bitfury at Bitcoin2013. Apparently they communicate every so often and he was impressed with Bitfury's technical prowess.


Also...wow, last trade @ 0.195.


Tytus/Bitfury/buzzdave, are there any more concrete dates now that chips have supposedly been fabbed?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on May 22, 2013, 03:05:27 PM
Last Report
Title:   Wafer production and chip packaging
published:   2013-05-22 16:35:16

Code:
Wafer production and chip packaging
First wafers will be completed on 2013-05-25 (few days delay). We have succeeded to request expedited packaging of first chips from the first wafers. We expect receiving packaged chips after 2013-05-30. These will be used to verify the function of the chips and test provisional board design. We believe board assembly with all 100th mine chips before 2013-07-01 is feasible.
 
Created on 2013-05-22 16:30:00 by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-05-22 16:35:16 by koji;


 ;D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on May 22, 2013, 03:26:56 PM
Current hashrate is ~100TH, so if mine will start in a month there's a chance to hold almost 50% of total hashrate. This looks very promising ;) Can't wait first dividends ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vycid on May 23, 2013, 04:50:34 AM
Is this asset subject to any kind of dilution? Can I count on the purchase of 1 share being, always and forever, 1/518271th of the company?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on May 23, 2013, 06:39:45 AM
Wow, been watching this for a while. Price is almost .2, 5 x IPO.

Crazyness.  Is this Asicminer 2.0 or since the haven't committed to maintaining Network Hash % are we to expect longer ROI?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 23, 2013, 06:57:52 AM
This security is different than AM. Unless tytus changes his plans, the hash rate will not change, so one share will always be 200MH/s.

That said, it might be much more lucrative to convert this security into an AM like security with future plans to expand hash rate and/or sell devices. The profit from selling shares could far surpass actual mining revenue. Obviously, as an investor, that is a self-serving statement and ultimately tytus is unlikely to convert.


What are the long term plans for the 100TH security?
1. We will discuss with FinCEN the legal aspects of bitcoin mining in US :-)
2. Dave is preparing tha data center for "cyber" attacks
3. There is no theft protection ... we will think about this
Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.
If so, what kind of share dilution will there be? Was funding for these 3 projects separate or all under the umbrella of the "100th"? With Asicminer, they have a separate company, bitfountain, that owns the majority of shares, but I believe future development and hashing power is added to the total capacity of ASICMINER. Is this project similar or are the other business activities separate ventures?
Funding is independent. Even if there would be no funds raised the project would continue as planned. The IPO* was intended mainly to test the shares as a distribution channel. However after publishing the FinCEN guidelines we believe the shares could be less risky for US miners than possession of mining equipment :-)



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on May 23, 2013, 11:07:10 AM
This security is different than AM. Unless tytus changes his plans, the hash rate will not change, so one share will always be 200MH/s.

That said, it might be much more lucrative to convert this security into an AM like security with future plans to expand hash rate and/or sell devices. The profit from selling shares could far surpass actual mining revenue. Obviously, as an investor, that is a self-serving statement and ultimately tytus is unlikely to convert.

This. You're buying a fixed 200MH/s per share (minus operating costs). The profitability will depend heavily on the starting day of the operation, since you won't be entitled to any extra capacity down the line, unless you buy more shares. The network difficulty is expected to be ~10x what it is today in ~6 months.

I don't think they will be changing the security to the AM model, it seems when they have more capacity to sell they'll just issue more shares.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ronaldlee0917 on May 23, 2013, 03:31:23 PM
Current hashrate is ~100TH, so if mine will start in a month there's a chance to hold almost 50% of total hashrate. This looks very promising ;) Can't wait first dividends ;)
bitcoin per 10 minutes = 25
bitcoin per month = 25 * 6 * 24 * 30 = 108000
Assume we will just have 30%(clearly an underestimation) of the total hashrate, we will get 108000 * 0.3 / 500000 = 0.0648 btc per share
I expect 0.05-0.08 dividend per share for the first few months after deployment which should be able to cover the cost of the stock at the current price. With PE < 1, the price is still quite cheap imo.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 23, 2013, 03:33:47 PM
I saw (and comment on) this today:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ew9mt/is_100th_next_asicminer_jumps_40_in_a_week_up_500/

Might explain the sudden burst in attention and price hike.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on May 23, 2013, 05:46:25 PM
If BFL starts shipping 400 units per day <smirk> then these shares are currently at a pretty good price.  If BFL doesn't ship en masse soon, they are undervalued.

Probably worth throwing a couple BTC at IMO.

(disclaimer, I bought a few last night and this is just my opinion based on back of the envelope number crunching)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 23, 2013, 05:49:53 PM
If BFL starts shipping 400 units per day <smirk> then these shares are currently at a pretty good price.  If BFL doesn't ship en masse soon, they are undervalued.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2838-may-22-2013-update-discussion-thread-4.html#post34834

tl;dr: Mass shipping should start in two weeks.

.b

(I also now hold some 100TH shares)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 23, 2013, 09:29:08 PM
aww tytus...you had to make that wall didn't you? i was fun watching it shoot up  :P


at least there is more liquidity now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 23, 2013, 09:35:02 PM
aww tytus...you had to make that wall didn't you? i was fun watching it shoot up  :P


at least there is more liquidity now.

Uhm... Seriously? The issuer dumps shares at below bid?

NOT good.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on May 23, 2013, 10:24:37 PM
aww tytus...you had to make that wall didn't you? i was fun watching it shoot up  :P


at least there is more liquidity now.

Umm... wtf over?  Could someone please claim ownership of this wall?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on May 23, 2013, 11:31:25 PM
aww tytus...you had to make that wall didn't you? i was fun watching it shoot up  :P


at least there is more liquidity now.

The 5th largest shareholder sold a little more than 10% of his/her shares.
With that move this shareholder nearly recovered 50% of the initial investment while reserving 85% of it for future price increases. Seems to be a very sane move.

But what I wonder is: what makes your think it was tytus?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 23, 2013, 11:44:34 PM
sorry, did not mean to out him.

anyway, looks like the wall is slowly fading away.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 23, 2013, 11:46:01 PM
sorry, did not mean to out him.

anyway, looks like the wall is slowly fading away.

Hang on... Do you 1) know that this was tytus and you didn't mean to reveal that or do you 2) not know that this is Tytus and you didn't mean to imply this was him?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Gomeler on May 24, 2013, 01:50:12 AM
Is there another place to purchase 100TH stocks besides picostocks?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on May 24, 2013, 01:56:41 AM
The 5th largest shareholder sold a little more than 10% of his/her shares.
With that move this shareholder nearly recovered 50% of the initial investment while reserving 85% of it for future price increases. Seems to be a very sane move.

But what I wonder is: what makes your think it was tytus?

+1

I'm thinking you are interpreting this correctly.  I'm amazed at how fast that wall dissipated.  Prepare for prices to run over the next 48 hrs ;-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on May 24, 2013, 03:03:54 AM
The 5th largest shareholder sold a little more than 10% of his/her shares.
With that move this shareholder nearly recovered 50% of the initial investment while reserving 85% of it for future price increases. Seems to be a very sane move.

But what I wonder is: what makes your think it was tytus?

+1

I'm thinking you are interpreting this correctly.  I'm amazed at how fast that wall dissipated.  Prepare for prices to run over the next 48 hrs ;-)

They should increase but if I were one of the largest shareholders, I'll do what the 5th largest did (until chips are hashing online there's still a substantial risk that the mine fails to deliver, it makes sense to mitigate this risk by selling a fraction of the shares).
When the opportunity comes for these largest shareholders to do so, we should see some large walls on the way up (which is good for people starting to invest in the near future: this will prevent the prices to go to insane heights too quickly and the stocks should still be profitable).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 07:18:19 AM
This has the potential of becoming ASICMINER 2.0,
I sold some of my ASICMINERS shares and bought some 100TH.
Hope that the mine would be deployed within the planned time frame, if so, it surely would outshine ASICMINER.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on May 24, 2013, 08:54:11 AM
This has the potential of becoming ASICMINER 2.0,
I sold some of my ASICMINERS shares and bought some 100TH.
Hope that the mine would be deployed within the planned time frame, if so, it surely would outshine ASICMINER.

you do know what you are saying.
this is not AM 2.0. there is no reinvesting that will be done and during this time AM will have 200TH. not sure how much research you did
not that this is bad but i don't think you are comparing correctly


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 09:01:23 AM
This is definitely not AM 2.0. Every share gives you 200 mh/s that's it. There are lots of other ways to get 200 mh/s this is just one of them.

AsicMiner is different, as they keep re-investing and putting more and more mh/s in the system so if you have one AM share giving you say, 100 mh/s today, that same share could give you 150mh/s tomorrow, when they put more miners in the system.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 09:15:17 AM
This has the potential of becoming ASICMINER 2.0,
I sold some of my ASICMINERS shares and bought some 100TH.
Hope that the mine would be deployed within the planned time frame, if so, it surely would outshine ASICMINER.

you do know what you are saying.
this is not AM 2.0. there is no reinvesting that will be done and during this time AM will have 200TH. not sure how much research you did
not that this is bad but i don't think you are comparing correctly
How long do you think ASICMINER could catch up with 100TH?
Last time I check , they only have 17TH and declining.
Plus ASICMINER has switched its focus to hardware production, after the market is saturated with asic hardware, those income would become irrelevant.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 09:21:16 AM
This is definitely not AM 2.0. Every share gives you 200 mh/s that's it. There are lots of other ways to get 200 mh/s this is just one of them.

AsicMiner is different, as they keep re-investing and putting more and more mh/s in the system so if you have one AM share giving you say, 100 mh/s today, that same share could give you 150mh/s tomorrow, when they put more miners in the system.
Ya, i bet it is more efficient to buy 300Mhz usb at the price of 2btc or 10Gh blades @50btc from ASICMINER, ouch you also need to buy them in bulk or join a group-buy.
The only cost efficient competitor now is BFL, but they fail to deliver again and again, I don't have faith in them anymore, if you make your order just by now, you probably won't see your product before the end of this year.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 09:26:16 AM
Quote
Ya, i bet it is more efficient to buy 300Mhz usb at the price of 2btc from ASICMINER.
The only cost efficient competitor now is BFL, but they fail to deliver again and again, I don't have faith in them anymore.

You could buy an Avalon system from one of the auctions going on every day here in Bitcointalk, you would pay about 1BTC per 1 Gh/s (or less). You could also go to Bitfunder and you will find half a dozen stocks there similar to 100TH. You could even buy yourself a GPU, mine Litecoin and exchange for BTC. You could also join some of these group buying sharing Avalon systems...

As I said, there are many options. But I agree that this 300Mh/s USB stick is not the best one, I would never have bought it.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 09:29:30 AM
Quote
How long do you think ASICMINER could catch up with 100TH?
Last time I check , they only have 17TH and declining.
Plus ASICMINER has switched its focus to hardware production, after the market is saturated with asic hardware, those income would become irrelevant.

You are missing the point here. YOU are not buying 100 TH/s. You are buying 200MH/s per stock!

Who cares how many GH/s are there in total from 100TH? You don't own them all.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 09:34:38 AM
Quote
How long do you think ASICMINER could catch up with 100TH?
Last time I check , they only have 17TH and declining.
Plus ASICMINER has switched its focus to hardware production, after the market is saturated with asic hardware, those income would become irrelevant.

You are missing the point here. YOU are not buying 100 TH/s. You are buying 200MH/s per stock!

Who cares how many GH/s are there in total from 100TH? You don't own them all.
As a comparison, you only get 17TH / 400000 from an ASICMINER share, and the number is dropping, and a share of it is traded at 2.5btc per share right now. Why shouldn't I sell some of them while the price is high and buy some underpriced shares instead?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 09:40:21 AM
Quote

As a comparison, you only get 17TH / 400000 from an ASICMINER share, and the number is dropping, and a share of it is traded at 2.5btc per share right now. Why shouldn't I sell some of them while the price is high and buy some underpriced shares instead?


The thing is though that AsicMiner has 17TH today (not in 1 or 2 months time). When 100TH comes live, who know what the difficulty will be? Avalon has tons of TH/s in the backlog, BFL same thing. Lots of other companies also bought Avalon chips.

I don't know about ASICMiner reducing their capacity, but given how well managed the company has been so far, I would not be surprised if that stock reaches 8 BTC by the end of the year (remember, they are continuously investing more). So you could be selling it for 2.5 BTC today and missing out later. It's all a big gamble, no one really knows what is going to happen.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 09:47:16 AM
Quote

As a comparison, you only get 17TH / 400000 from an ASICMINER share, and the number is dropping, and a share of it is traded at 2.5btc per share right now. Why shouldn't I sell some of them while the price is high and buy some underpriced shares instead?


The thing is though that AsicMiner has 17TH today (not in 1 or 2 months time). When 100TH comes live, who know what the difficulty will be? Avalon has tons of TH/s in the backlog, BFL same thing. Lots of other companies also bought Avalon chips.

I don't know about ASICMiner reducing their capacity, but given how well managed the company has been so far, I would not be surprised if that stock reaches 8 BTC by the end of the year (remember, they are continuously investing more). So you could be selling it for 2.5 BTC today and missing out later. It's all a big gamble, no one really knows what is going to happen.
there are still 11million of bitcoins to mine, assuming that ASICMINER is capable of getting 10% of the total hash rate, you only get
11m / 10 / 400k = 2.75 btc per share which will be paid in a time frame of 10-20 years.
if they are capable of getting 20%
you will get 5.5 btc per share
If you factor in all the blades sales and usb sales, there will be a bit more, but this source of income won't last long, they have a very uncompetitive price.
I don't know how you come up with the price of 8btc


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 09:53:09 AM
Quote
there are still 11million of bitcoins to mine, assuming that ASICMINER is capable of getting 10% of the total hash rate, you only get
1.1m / 10 / 400k = 2.75 btc per share which will be paid in a time frame of 10-20 years.
if they are capable of getting 20%
you will get 5.5 btc per share
If you factor in all the blades sales and usb sales, there will be a bit more, but this source of income won't last long, they have a very uncompetitive price.
I don't know how you come up with the price of 8btc

There's just a small detail: these 11 million bitcoins are to be mined in the next 20 years or so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Bitcoin_mining). Do you really believe that 100TH will be anything by the end of 2014? With all these ASICs coming into the market, by that time, 100TH will probably be as much as 100MH/s is today! It's all about the difficulty, don't get too hung up by the TH/s numbers.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 09:58:17 AM
Quote
there are still 11million of bitcoins to mine, assuming that ASICMINER is capable of getting 10% of the total hash rate, you only get
1.1m / 10 / 400k = 2.75 btc per share which will be paid in a time frame of 10-20 years.
if they are capable of getting 20%
you will get 5.5 btc per share
If you factor in all the blades sales and usb sales, there will be a bit more, but this source of income won't last long, they have a very uncompetitive price.
I don't know how you come up with the price of 8btc

There's just a small detail: these 11 million bitcoins are to be mined in the next 20 years or so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Bitcoin_mining). Do you really believe that 100TH will be anything by the end of 2014? With all these ASICs coming into the market, by that time, 100TH will probably be as much as 100MH/s is today! It's all about the difficulty, don't get too hung up by the TH/s numbers.

By that time, 17Th would definitely be equal to 17MH then.
I know the maths, it is 200Mh per share which should be a lot cheaper than a lot of other alternatives, I expect I will get double or triple of my investment by the end of 2014, plus I don't need to go over the hassle of making group buys or auctions.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TradeFortress on May 24, 2013, 09:58:57 AM
Quote
there are still 11million of bitcoins to mine, assuming that ASICMINER is capable of getting 10% of the total hash rate, you only get
1.1m / 10 / 400k = 2.75 btc per share which will be paid in a time frame of 10-20 years.
if they are capable of getting 20%
you will get 5.5 btc per share
If you factor in all the blades sales and usb sales, there will be a bit more, but this source of income won't last long, they have a very uncompetitive price.
I don't know how you come up with the price of 8btc

There's just a small detail: these 11 million bitcoins are to be mined in the next 20 years or so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Bitcoin_mining). Do you really believe that 100TH will be anything by the end of 2014? With all these ASICs coming into the market, by that time, 100TH will probably be as much as 100MH/s is today! It's all about the difficulty, don't get too hung up by the TH/s numbers.

By that time, 17Th would definitely be equal to 17MH then.
I know the maths, it is 200Mh per share which should be a lot cheaper than a lot of other alternatives, I expect I will get double or triple of my investment by the end of 2014, plus I don't need to go over the hassle of making group buys or auctions.
ASICMINER's has at least 200TH/s ordered and they are earning a lot from hardware sales.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 10:04:24 AM
Quote
there are still 11million of bitcoins to mine, assuming that ASICMINER is capable of getting 10% of the total hash rate, you only get
1.1m / 10 / 400k = 2.75 btc per share which will be paid in a time frame of 10-20 years.
if they are capable of getting 20%
you will get 5.5 btc per share
If you factor in all the blades sales and usb sales, there will be a bit more, but this source of income won't last long, they have a very uncompetitive price.
I don't know how you come up with the price of 8btc

There's just a small detail: these 11 million bitcoins are to be mined in the next 20 years or so (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Bitcoin_mining). Do you really believe that 100TH will be anything by the end of 2014? With all these ASICs coming into the market, by that time, 100TH will probably be as much as 100MH/s is today! It's all about the difficulty, don't get too hung up by the TH/s numbers.

By that time, 17Th would definitely be equal to 17MH then.
I know the maths, it is 200Mh per share which should be a lot cheaper than a lot of other alternatives, I expect I will get double or triple of my investment by the end of 2014, plus I don't need to go over the hassle of making group buys or auctions.
ASICMINER's has at least 200TH/s ordered and they are earning a lot from hardware sales.
Ya, I am sure that 200Th would be deployed at the end of next month.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 10:07:53 AM
ASICMINER's has at least 200TH/s ordered and they are earning a lot from hardware sales.

ASICMiner has just announced they've decided to go with 65/55 nm for their next gen chip, which means they haven't really come far in the process. 100TH seems to have that generation now or at least very shortly.

AM has been earning a lot from hardware sales because they have essentially been the only supplier in a very desperate market. They will need to sell 200 blades and 10K USB miners every month to keep up the dividends they have been paying lately.

AM cannot grow much further. Their entire proof of capability, which exceeds anyone in the business by orders of magnitude, has already been priced into the share.

100TH has just started growing. Their entire proof of capability, which doesn't even exist yet, has not been priced into the share.

They key question will be; does 100TH deliver? If they do, they will be one generation ahead of AM and AM will suddenly be the Pentium III trying to catch up with a new generation of chips and arguing that "yeah, but we got a lot of Pentium IIIs on order!"

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 10:15:50 AM
Quote
ASICMiner has just announced they've decided to go with 65/55 nm for their next gen chip, which means they haven't really come far in the process. 100TH seems to have that generation now or at least very shortly.

AM has been earning a lot from hardware sales because they have essentially been the only supplier in a very desperate market. They will need to sell 200 blades and 10K USB miners every month to keep up the dividends they have been paying lately.

AM cannot grow much further. Their entire proof of capability, which exceeds anyone in the business by orders of magnitude, has already been priced into the share.

100TH has just started growing. Their entire proof of capability, which doesn't even exist yet, has not been priced into the share.

They key question will be; does 100TH deliver? If they do, they will be one generation ahead of AM and AM will suddenly be the Pentium III trying to catch up with a new generation of chips and arguing that "yeah, but we got a lot of Pentium IIIs on order!"

The question is not only that. The question is about short-term vs. long term. Sure, ASICMiner is starting with 65/55 nm now, but look at what friedcat's already done. The guy can deliver. Even if he's a couple of months behind TH, he will deliver, and in 1 years time, 100TH will still be 100TH but Asicminer could be already in 500TH for all I know.

This is what you need to consider. Plus, 100TH has no history of delivering so it's way more risky in my view. I am not saying whether it's a good or bad investment, but in my view it's more risky than Asicminer (especially so in the medium to long term).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 10:49:15 AM
The question is not only that. The question is about short-term vs. long term. Sure, ASICMiner is starting with 65/55 nm now, but look at what friedcat's already done. The guy can deliver. Even if he's a couple of months behind TH, he will deliver, and in 1 years time, 100TH will still be 100TH but Asicminer could be already in 500TH for all I know.

This is where a lot of people get it wrong; there is no direct link between hashrate and earning. There is a direct link between percentage of network and earning, at least for the mining part of the equation. If AM rolls out 500TH and nobody else has rolled out more, then Bitcoin as we know it is dead.

If 100TH rolls out 100TH and AM rolls out 100TH (and let's forget the rest of the network for a moment) then that is the extent to which they can both grow. AM cannot add 200TH or even 2TH more and start earning more money.

If another actor adds 100TH for a total of 300TH in the network then AM can increase to 200TH but that will not increase its earnings by a single bitcent. It will only add costs, which is why we have seen the peak of AM profitability and AM cannot possibly impress anyone.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on May 24, 2013, 10:53:44 AM
ASICMiner has just announced they've decided to go with 65/55 nm for their next gen chip, which means they haven't really come far in the process. 100TH seems to have that generation now or at least very shortly.

What difference would generation make for a:

1. Fixed TH offering. For all you care it could be done on CPUs, as long as it matches 100TH it's the same.
2. Dubious offering. This guy with no prior history came out of the blue one day claiming about 1 million dollars' worth of investment in Basic backing his stuff. Basic turned out a scam. Somehow magically the guy didn't make a loss on the deal, but just invested his (obviously imaginary - on the grounds that no explanation was offered at the time) million in another dubious venture. Even if it were the case Bitfury actually delivers, there is absolutely no proof this thing is going to receive anything from there.

It's not a matter of "risky". It's a matter of nonsense.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 10:56:46 AM
Quote
This is where a lot of people get it wrong; there is no direct link between hashrate and earning. There is a direct link between percentage of network and earning, at least for the mining part of the equation. If AM rolls out 500TH and nobody else has rolled out more, then Bitcoin as we know it is dead.

Exactly!

So from an investment perspective, 100TH can only DECREASE the % of total hashrate they own, while AM can increase (if they choose so). This means that from the moment 100TH launches it will ALWAYS produce less and less dividends as time passes. While AM can at least stay constant or even increase (as they also sell hardware, don't forget that).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 11:05:35 AM
While AM can at least stay constant or even increase (as they also sell hardware, don't forget that).

AM already has reached the peak it can safely operate. If AM is at 40% and one or two major miners or pools go offline, we have a 51% situation.

This will be mitigated by other miners and pools entering the scene, but AM can not increase its rate. AM can only increase costs. There is no way AM can make more money than they already are. Profitability can only go down. I'm not sure how many more ways I can say that.

Hardware sales is a temporary and minor boost at the moment. If you think otherwise, I have a bunch of Pentium IIIs chips you can buy for $1K each.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: pitchbend on May 24, 2013, 11:07:21 AM
Exactly, the hash rate will obviously keep increasing at a very fast rate as more players join the game, a project that is not designed to scale will be an always shrinking venture, losing % of the total hashing power everyday.

Quote
This is where a lot of people get it wrong; there is no direct link between hashrate and earning. There is a direct link between percentage of network and earning, at least for the mining part of the equation. If AM rolls out 500TH and nobody else has rolled out more, then Bitcoin as we know it is dead.

Exactly!

So from an investment perspective, 100TH can only DECREASE the % of total hashrate they own, while AM can increase (if they choose so). This means that from the moment 100TH launches it will ALWAYS produce less and less dividends as time passes. While AM can at least stay constant or even increase (as they also sell hardware, don't forget that).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: papamoi on May 24, 2013, 11:12:57 AM
very good news


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: pitchbend on May 24, 2013, 11:14:52 AM
AM doesn't need to grow more, they just need to scale to keep their 40% of the hashing power constant, who cares if they are not able to make more profit from block rewards, as long as it stays constant it's a very very good profit. Also they don't need to divert money from their profits to pay for new hardware and R&D since they can sell blades to pay for those.


While AM can at least stay constant or even increase (as they also sell hardware, don't forget that).

AM already has reached the peak it can safely operate. If AM is at 40% and one or two major miners or pools go offline, we have a 51% situation.

This will be mitigated by other miners and pools entering the scene, but AM can not increase its rate. AM can only increase costs. There is no way AM can make more money than they already are. Profitability can only go down. I'm not sure how many more ways I can say that.

Hardware sales is a temporary and minor boost at the moment. If you think otherwise, I have a bunch of Pentium IIIs chips you can buy for K each.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 11:19:32 AM
AM doesn't need to grow more, they just need to scale to keep their 40% of the hashing power constant, who cares if they are not able to make more profit from block rewards, as long as it stays constant it's a very very good profit.

I'm not sure which part of this you don't understand but growth isn't possible and scaling means reduced profit. They have nothing to sell in a month or two. Profit for AM won't stay constant, it will go down.

The only situation in which AM profits can remain is that if one or very few large actors control the majority of hashing so there is no need to invest in the arms race. I don't consider this to be a very likely scenario, which means that, like for 100TH, profitability will go down with time.

Also they don't need to divert money from their profits to pay for new hardware and R&D since they can sell blades to pay for those.

OK, so how many Pentium IIIs would you like to buy? Shipping is, of course, included, and I can ship right now!

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on May 24, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
ASICMiner has just announced they've decided to go with 65/55 nm for their next gen chip, which means they haven't really come far in the process. 100TH seems to have that generation now or at least very shortly.
. Dubious offering. This guy with no prior history

tytus, no prior history? You lived under a rock since the early days of Bitcoin mining?

came out of the blue one day claiming about 1 million dollars' worth of investment in Basic backing his stuff. Basic turned out a scam.

It failed, it wasn't a scam. I can attest to it personally: I was a bASIC customer and was refunded to the last cent.

Somehow magically the guy didn't make a loss on the deal

Why should magic been involved when bASIC did refund everyone? In fact if someone is still claiming otherwise now, you can suspect him/her to try to scam bASIC, given that hundreds of customers either reported being refunded or didn't even bothered posting about it.

but just invested his (obviously imaginary - on the grounds that no explanation was offered at the time) million

Why shouldn't people invest this kind of money if they can and why should they justify its source? And my understanding is that the 100TH-mine was funded by its current shareholders, not one single guy.
The largest shareholder has a little less than 2/5 of the shares (200_000 purchased at 0.04BTC => 8000BTC at the beginning of the year) where's your million dollar again?

in another dubious venture. Even if it were the case Bitfury actually delivers, there is absolutely no proof this thing is going to receive anything from there.

Yeah like Bitfury would let someone build a scammer company on his own reputation without reacting in any way. Makes sense  ::)

MPOE-PR: stop being envious of other people actually building something and go back on your exchange nobody wants to use anymore. Attacking stocks that didn't select your exchange with so pathetic FUD only damages your own reputation (assuming it's still somehow recoverable).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ronaldlee0917 on May 24, 2013, 11:25:36 AM
Exactly, the hash rate will obviously keep increasing at a very fast rate as more players join the game, a project that is not designed to scale will be an always shrinking venture, losing % of the total hashing power everyday.

Quote
This is where a lot of people get it wrong; there is no direct link between hashrate and earning. There is a direct link between percentage of network and earning, at least for the mining part of the equation. If AM rolls out 500TH and nobody else has rolled out more, then Bitcoin as we know it is dead.

Exactly!

So from an investment perspective, 100TH can only DECREASE the % of total hashrate they own, while AM can increase (if they choose so). This means that from the moment 100TH launches it will ALWAYS produce less and less dividends as time passes. While AM can at least stay constant or even increase (as they also sell hardware, don't forget that).
The same applies for all mining hardware.
We are buying shares of a 100TH mining hardware here, we all know clearly we will get 200MH per share before buying, whose network share would decreases with time.
The strength of asicminer is their PROMISE to upgrade their mining hardware with time, whose cost would likely be reduced from your dividends.
I don't know exactly their policy of giving out dividends, but for a normal company, all operational, purchase or investment costs should be be deducted from the income and a percent of the revenue is given out as dividends to shareholders.
With that said, all shareholders are paying the cost of hardware upgrades indirectly in order to keep asicminer's hash rate up with competition.
In the case of 100TH, we don't need to pay for the upgrade cost but we won't get a progressive hash rate either, but with 100TH, it should be able to stay relevant and give out hefty dividends within a year of two.
The only question is whether they will deliver on time.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on May 24, 2013, 11:42:07 AM
All is in business plan. Also nice graphs of predicted income. But few things changed. At startup there will not be a 500TH hashing power, and BTC is no longer 17$... Everything is paid, so you may easy calculated how dividends will look like... With AM you don't know a shit... If friedcat says that he must buy components then he will take 2000BTC and says sorry I had too... And who knows how much that components was? If someone saw a table with incomes and outcomes of AM then please post a link....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 11:54:59 AM
ASICMiner has just announced they've decided to go with 65/55 nm for their next gen chip, which means they haven't really come far in the process. 100TH seems to have that generation now or at least very shortly.

What difference would generation make for a:

1. Fixed TH offering. For all you care it could be done on CPUs, as long as it matches 100TH it's the same.

This was actually more a response to the glory of AM than a praise of 100TH. The point was to show that AM isn't leading the race because of skill but because they are the only horse in the race.


Even if it were the case Bitfury actually delivers, there is absolutely no proof this thing is going to receive anything from there.

It's not a matter of "risky". It's a matter of nonsense.

I doubt Bitfury would post lengthy descriptions of his progress in the 100TH threads if he had no connections with them. Theoretically, he can scam 100TH and not deliver, but I doubt that is the case. There is an obvious connection between them, but that's not really important in terms of defining whether this is a profitable venture, only to determine risk, like you say.

I don't think that's a real risk so I hold some shares, if you think it is a real risk you're not willing to take, then you don't buy shares :-)

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on May 24, 2013, 12:30:51 PM

... if you think it is a real risk you're not willing to take, then you don't buy shares :-)

Yep, as simple as that, no need to spill an acid...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 12:58:09 PM
Well, one thing is for sure: the GH/s cost of this share is one the low-end right now compared to other investments.

So as others said, it boils down to when they start hashing.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on May 24, 2013, 01:04:30 PM
Oops, I missed the discussion on the thread ...

We are getting requests asking why we are "dumping" prices by offering shares from "73i6" (1AQxJQZtTNzUhviMjB8jqxxqL3Kbnm73i6 / Pico).
The main reason is that we want to increase liquidity because at low liquidity the price is too volatile. We can of course offer shares at higher prices but there must be a rational explanation of the valuation.
I believe the mine will be very successful in the first months but after that the revenues will drop (very) rapidly. The same will happen to the stock valuation. So this investment is quite tricky. To estimate the market cap of the 100th mine we have to predict how many BTC will be mined. 100k BTC are mined per month in total. I doubt the mine will make 100 BTC in the first two months. Other competitors will also fight for the mining revenues (BFL, maybe 28nm chip from helveticoin, and new batches of our chips). Also the chips have not been tested yet, so the investment is still very speculative.
We will update our projections in 3-4 weeks when we (hopefully) have functional boards.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on May 24, 2013, 01:14:59 PM
Well, one thing is for sure: the GH/s cost of this share is one the low-end right now compared to other investments.
So as others said, it boils down to when they start hashing.

100th mine:
shares   518271
price per share BTC   0.2
market cap BTC   103654.2
hashrate [GH/s]   100000
price/hash [BTC/GH/s]   1.036542
BTC price   127
USD/GH/s   131.640834
   
BFL bitcoin miner:
GH/s   50
USD   2499
USD/GH/s   49.98

The 100th mine shares are now more expensive than equipment so the only reason to buy them would be the expectation that 100th can mine faster then own equipment when purchased. => The mine has to return revenues before BFL (and other) equipment will be abundant.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 01:18:25 PM
Oops, I missed the discussion on the thread ...

We are getting requests asking why we are "dumping" prices by offering shares from "73i6" (1AQxJQZtTNzUhviMjB8jqxxqL3Kbnm73i6 / Pico).
The main reason is that we want to increase liquidity because at low liquidity the price is too volatile. We can of course offer shares at higher prices but there must be a rational explanation of the valuation.
I believe the mine will be very successful in the first months but after that the revenues will drop (very) rapidly. The same will happen to the stock valuation. So this investment is quite tricky. To estimate the market cap of the 100th mine we have to predict how many BTC will be mined. 100k BTC are mined per month in total. I doubt the mine will make 100 BTC in the first two months. Other competitors will also fight for the mining revenues (BFL, maybe 28nm chip from helveticoin, and new batches of our chips). Also the chips have not been tested yet, so the investment is still very speculative.
We will update our projections in 3-4 weeks when we (hopefully) have functional boards.


Thanks for the update, Tytus, I appreciate the information and projections.

The market must decide what the true price of a share is, which is the entire point of floating on an exchange. At that point, the founders are no longer 'allowed' to say what is a fair price, but should instead focus on providing the information that the market needs to evaluate the value.

Whether someone wants to pay more or less is not up to the founders; only the market and the investors on that market. That market may or may not have other information that makes them evaluate the risk and profitability differently than you.

However, you are sending a very wrong signal to the market when you 'dump' shares right before an important announcement, especially when you do so at below market bids. This causes uncertainty about whether you have more information than the market. In a regulated setting, this would be considered insider trading regardless of whether you have other information. The normal procedure is to announce such sales when they are done from key insiders.

From what I understand now, there is no new information that would change the previous evaluation that the market does. If anything, the update on the wafers is positive in terms of being in line with your previous projections. The market now needs to decide what to do with that information.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 01:23:23 PM
The 100th mine shares are now more expensive than equipment so the only reason to buy them would be the expectation that 100th can mine faster then own equipment when purchased. => The mine has to return revenues before BFL (and other) equipment will be abundant.

Again, you cannot decide on behalf of investors why they want to invest or what their reasons are. The cost of a scalpel and a clean bed is minute, but you'd still want to hire a surgeon to operate on you rather than asking a friend over to do it or even worse, do it yourself.

The cost of chips is also lower than a BFL box, which following your logic would mean that buying a BFL miners would be a bad investment and BFL should tell their customers to buy chips instead or even sell their boxes for lower prices to control the disappointment that their customers will see when they realize that people buying chips would get much cheaper hashing power.

Leave the market to do what the market is designed to do. I, for one, would not buy a BFL miner for a quarter of its price, simply because of the overhead of maintenance, risk of failure, because I'm moving shortly, because my wife doesn't like the color, or a ton of other reasons.

That should be my choice, not yours.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 01:37:44 PM
@tytus: I appreciate your transparency, but:

1) You are comparing your GH/s cost with the only company that is cheaper and by the way doesn't deliver. Not even the Jalapenos, much less the higher end machines.

2) My point on the price is that if you compare 100TH with other similar security options in Bitfunder, you are still cheap. The cheapest you can get in Bitfunder is about 200MH/BTC and here one can get 1GH/BTC.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lysr on May 24, 2013, 01:43:09 PM
Well, one thing is for sure: the GH/s cost of this share is one the low-end right now compared to other investments.
So as others said, it boils down to when they start hashing.

100th mine:
shares   518271
price per share BTC   0.2
market cap BTC   103654.2
hashrate [GH/s]   100000
price/hash [BTC/GH/s]   1.036542
BTC price   127
USD/GH/s   131.640834
   
BFL bitcoin miner:
GH/s   50
USD   2499
USD/GH/s   49.98

The 100th mine shares are now more expensive than equipment so the only reason to buy them would be the expectation that 100th can mine faster then own equipment when purchased. => The mine has to return revenues before BFL (and other) equipment will be abundant.

The problems with BFL are:
- they failed to deliver again and again
- there is a long queue of orders yet to be served. An order made today probably won't be served before the end of this year. Timeliness is critical in the field of mining as everyone of us knows competition and difficulty scale up with time. So, I won't buy a BFL even if they sell at one half of the price now. Why would people still buy the blades and usb from ASICMINER although they are nearly 10x the cost of BFL? Because they are paying extra for a quick delivery.

Let the market decide the true value of your shares, as an issuer the best you should do is to provide the most accurate information to the investors, they are taking the risks and profits on behalf of their own decisions. All you are doing now is unfair to those who bought at 0.3+ because of an anticipation of a sharp increase in price shortly. I really feel sorry for those guys because of your unjustified decision.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: joris on May 24, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
Founders have shares and are free market participants. So they are allowed to sell their shares at any time en it is up to the other market participants to distill information out of these sales.

Luckily these markets in the bitcoin economy are not regulated by some dictating government by its collective stupidity. If one gets screwed, one trusted the wrong (pseudonymous) persons to earn money for himself. Overprotection screws people and economies up in the long run.

Tytus, really like your USD/Ghash comparison with BFL. Says something about aiming for transparency, which is not in your short-term interest with the rising share prices of 100th.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 01:47:26 PM
@tytus: I appreciate your transparency, but:

1) You are comparing your GH/s cost with the only company that is cheaper and by the way doesn't deliver. Not even the Jalapenos, much less the higher end machines.

Might I remind everyone that 100th also does not deliver at this point. Reaching milestones is good, but it's not delivery or revenue.

2) My point on the price is that if you compare 100TH with other similar security options in Bitfunder, you are still cheap. The cheapest you can get in Bitfunder is about 200MH/BTC and here one can get 1GH/BTC.

About the cheapness, this greatly depends on a number of factors and comparing it to other options may not make much sense because if 100th does not earn a sufficient profit at this level, it only means the others are less profitable. 100th must be profitable on its own merit, not compared to other companies.

Still, though, this is a decision for investors, not for 100th.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: abuelau on May 24, 2013, 01:48:08 PM
I think I understand tytus position here. He wants to sell stocks but he feels liquidity is low, this is why he would like to see the price go down a bit, so that more people would buy.

My 2c: If liquidity is low is probably because:

a) picostocks sucks in terms of trying to pass a sense of credibility and professionalism (compare it to bitfunder or havelockinvestments)
b) You should advertise more, you have one of the best GH/s prices, there are lots of people buyng GH/s for more in the aforementioned sites.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: BitAddict on May 24, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
If we start before 5 months we will easily return in 3-4 months @ 0,20. I think is still a reasonable price.
We just need to wait and hope tytus is working hard for us  :)

BTW I prefer if he doesn't advertise 100th, I will be able to buy more shares at lower price, so who cares. If we have less people speculating on the price I think it will be better in the long term, so I hope all stay quietly just like now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 24, 2013, 05:59:33 PM
In terms of advertising, it is a tricky scenario.

First, Tytus is fully aware that the chips have not been tested yet and could fail. If this happens, he will have to deal with a shitstorm. Better to wait until chips have been verified before advertising.


Second, if chips do work, then he can either hold on to the shares and earn direct revenue from mining or....if the share price exceeds his projected earning potential then he can sell some shares. However, that could be interpreted as doing a disservice to the buyer if he is selling shares @ a price higher than he thinks he will earn.

If he is selling shares below his projected earnings estimates it is out of his own goodwill or as an effort to promote trading on picostocks (EDIT. or increasing his own liquidity in BTC). Obviously, everyone has their own way of predicting what the realistic long term ROI will be, so what is considered a fair price can vary widely.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on May 24, 2013, 06:28:56 PM
Oops, I missed the discussion on the thread ...

We are getting requests asking why we are "dumping" prices by offering shares from "73i6" (1AQxJQZtTNzUhviMjB8jqxxqL3Kbnm73i6 / Pico).
The main reason is that we want to increase liquidity because at low liquidity the price is too volatile. We can of course offer shares at higher prices but there must be a rational explanation of the valuation.
I believe the mine will be very successful in the first months but after that the revenues will drop (very) rapidly. The same will happen to the stock valuation. So this investment is quite tricky. To estimate the market cap of the 100th mine we have to predict how many BTC will be mined. 100k BTC are mined per month in total. I doubt the mine will make 100 BTC in the first two months. Other competitors will also fight for the mining revenues (BFL, maybe 28nm chip from helveticoin, and new batches of our chips). Also the chips have not been tested yet, so the investment is still very speculative.
We will update our projections in 3-4 weeks when we (hopefully) have functional boards.


I just don't understand why you need to enforce a certain price/liquidity/volatility. Stock was trading at nearly 0.4, until you put 1000 shares wall at nearly half that price TWICE.

You've completed your IPO and collected funds for the development. Leave the rest to free market. It sure doesn't paint a pretty picture about your commitment or confidence if you make your exit before you've even received chips.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on May 24, 2013, 06:39:42 PM
Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 06:46:15 PM
Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

It is not those who _have_ bought who decide what the next buyres will pay. If you run the mine with equal information to the market then really, you'll find there are bubbles (OMG it's at $266, BUY BUY BUY!) and there are crashes (OMG it's at $50 SELL SELL SELL!). You can't blame Satoshi for that, nor will anyone blame you for what other people choose to do.

I fully understand your position and desire to protect investors, perhaps especially those that are inexperienced and don't do their research. Your best option is to provide information to the market, like you are doing already, about the operation, your projections, any issues, and so on. Based on that, people will pay ฿0.4, ฿40, og ฿0.00004 for shares of that.

BTW, there's no issue with you selling shares. Announce it a few days in advance, state some reasonable and relative price (ie halfway between a weighted average of bids and asks, or 10% above previous 7 day average sale price, or anything), and let the market react however it pleases.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on May 24, 2013, 06:52:14 PM
This is a good idea. I will report the desire to sell shares at some price 48h before I place the order.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on May 24, 2013, 07:47:36 PM
tytus, no prior history? You lived under a rock since the early days of Bitcoin mining?

Those "early days of Bitcoin mining" wouldn't be April 19, 2012, I hope.

Let me tell you some names from the "early days of bitcoin mining". Hashking. Amazingrando. Gigavps. Inaba. Tom van Ryp them. Buzzdave. Meni Rosenfeld. Diablo-D3. I could go on. And on. And on.

It failed, it wasn't a scam. I can attest to it personally: I was a bASIC customer and was refunded to the last cent.

Not much to go by. I recall the threads back in the day, the economics of why exactly "refunds to the last cent" weren't possible are quite plain, such claims as yours are pretty much worthless. Please document the "hundreds" etc you speak of.

Yeah like Bitfury would let someone build a scammer company on his own reputation without reacting in any way. Makes sense

Please review the history of the "early days". Preferably going back before April 2012, but even lately: MtGox and Coinlab, for instance. Also please review some very basic, beginner logic, because whatever you've got going isn't working worth squat.

MPOE-PR: stop being envious of other people actually building something and go back on your exchange nobody wants to use anymore. Attacking stocks that didn't select your exchange with so pathetic FUD only damages your own reputation (assuming it's still somehow recoverable).

Retard, review the history of "the early days of Bitcoin whatever". Specifically the parts which show what happens to people who try and claim I spread FUD.

I doubt Bitfury would post lengthy descriptions of his progress in the 100TH threads if he had no connections with them.

Gigavps made clear personal commitments which he then replaced, in clear violation of his own written word, with some llc. Patrick Harnett made clear statements of personal responsibility which he then igonred.

Friedcat studiously avoids making any sort of contract, and this should be somehow interpreted as better than a contract. Bitfury makes "updates" in this forum, and this you take as what exactly? In the event this is exposed as a scam your recourse will be what, ask for Bitfury to get a scammer tag for "obviously" making posts in a scam thread and then accuse Theymos & the forum & the moderators & the world of being at fault for your own broken thought process?

This ain't how it goes. Absent an actually signed declaration from Bitfury at a very minimum there's absolutely nothing here. Nothing other than, of course, the usual pump and dump scamfest that the outer ring of Bitcoin Hell is so properly famous for.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 24, 2013, 07:58:24 PM
I doubt Bitfury would post lengthy descriptions of his progress in the 100TH threads if he had no connections with them.

Gigavps made clear personal commitments which he then replaced, in clear violation of his own written word, with some llc. Patrick Harnett made clear statements of personal responsibility which he then igonred.

Friedcat studiously avoids making any sort of contract, and this should be somehow interpreted as better than a contract. Bitfury makes "updates" in this forum, and this you take as what exactly?

I take it as one factor in my research, nothing more, just like I take your advice and comments as one factor in my research, nothing more. I take these factors and assign to them values and probabilities and come up with a risk that I either assume or reject.

In the event this is exposed as a scam your recourse will be what, ask for Bitfury to get a scammer tag for "obviously" making posts in a scam thread and then accuse Theymos & the forum & the moderators & the world of being at fault for your own broken thought process?

These are the risks I'm talking about evaluating. I'm perfectly comfortable with the risk I'm assuming, not even considering wasting time trying to get back at someone or my money back. I wouldn't need a path of recourse because if this is a scam, I consider my money lost and that is part of the calculations I do.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on May 24, 2013, 08:34:41 PM
Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

It is not those who _have_ bought who decide what the next buyres will pay. If you run the mine with equal information to the market then really, you'll find there are bubbles (OMG it's at $266, BUY BUY BUY!) and there are crashes (OMG it's at $50 SELL SELL SELL!). You can't blame Satoshi for that, nor will anyone blame you for what other people choose to do.

I fully understand your position and desire to protect investors, perhaps especially those that are inexperienced and don't do their research. Your best option is to provide information to the market, like you are doing already, about the operation, your projections, any issues, and so on. Based on that, people will pay ฿0.4, ฿40, og ฿0.00004 for shares of that.

BTW, there's no issue with you selling shares. Announce it a few days in advance, state some reasonable and relative price (ie halfway between a weighted average of bids and asks, or 10% above previous 7 day average sale price, or anything), and let the market react however it pleases.

.b

+1


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on May 24, 2013, 09:16:59 PM
long run potential and *value* of shares is subject to re-investment. it would be much better if they set a reinvestment rate but perhaps they don't want to bother OR they will just use the proceeds to build more for themselves without sharing with public


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: thx1164 on May 24, 2013, 10:28:25 PM
ROFL @ MPOE-PR, like always. Mad again because someone didn't choose your exchange? I am in no way saying you are wrong or right about this company, but everything you type seems to be FUD against competition that doesn't use your exchange, followed by ad hominem attacks when people disagree. (You really call people retards quite often.) And you REALLY like to talk shit and pick on the people who don't seem to know much, while ignoring the educated or semi-educated replies you get. All while your baby Satoshi Dice continues to tank. I haven't gotten SHIT for dividends from my SDice shares compared to other investments I have, nearly all of which you have trashed. You are worse at actual PR than Inaba, and only newbies listen to your FUD until they realize that is all you have to offer. At least from what I have seen. I haven't exactly gone back an read all of your posts, but the ones I do read make me laugh. One compliment though, you are a FUD master, even if you are terrible at PR.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on May 24, 2013, 11:17:04 PM
100th mine:
shares   518271
price per share BTC   0.2
market cap BTC   103654.2
hashrate [GH/s]   100000

I believe you simplified the hashrate number too much.
After the IPO you declared "This means that the mine will have a hashing power of > 103TH/s. We will equip the mine with enough boards to provide this power."

Tell us, there is still 200 MH/s per share or not?



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on May 25, 2013, 12:09:04 AM
It seems to me that if the purchased hash rate is 200Mh per share, then the only metric that really matters is the network difficulty at the time the equipment actually starts hashing.  We can't possibly know what the network difficulty will be, but we do know that companies consistently fail to hash on time.  Purchasing this stock is just placing a bet that this company will succeed in delivering while others will not. 

If correct, and companies like BFL do not ship en masse (what in their past would make you think they would).  And bulk purchasers of Avalon chips realize that it isn't that easy to take an open source design and create your own boards.  Then these shares really could end up hashing .5 - .7 BTC over the course of the first year.

I'm of the opinion that these shares are a steal at .28 (current ask) and will be buying more until around .35 - .4

Just my 2c


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on May 25, 2013, 01:07:04 AM
It seems to me that if the purchased hash rate is 200Mh per share, then the only metric that really matters is the network difficulty at the time the equipment actually starts hashing.  We can't possibly know what the network difficulty will be, but we do know that companies consistently fail to hash on time.  Purchasing this stock is just placing a bet that this company will succeed in delivering while others will not. 

If correct, and companies like BFL do not ship en masse (what in their past would make you think they would).  And bulk purchasers of Avalon chips realize that it isn't that easy to take an open source design and create your own boards.  Then these shares really could end up hashing .5 - .7 BTC over the course of the first year.

I'm of the opinion that these shares are a steal at .28 (current ask) and will be buying more until around .35 - .4

Just my 2c

your assumption is that there will be no DELAYS. you seem very confident.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on May 25, 2013, 01:51:42 AM
your assumption is that there will be no DELAYS. you seem very confident.

Not confident, I clearly stated that it was a gamble.  Though I do admit that I have more confidence in 100TH than I do in BFL actually delivering a significant number of units any time soon.

Purchasing this stock is just placing a bet that this company will succeed in delivering while others will not. 

If correct, and companies like BFL do not ship en masse (what in their past would make you think they would).  And bulk purchasers of Avalon chips realize that it isn't that easy to take an open source design and create your own boards.  Then these shares really could end up hashing .5 - .7 BTC over the course of the first year.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on May 25, 2013, 08:29:27 AM
100th mine:
shares   518271
price per share BTC   0.2
market cap BTC   103654.2
hashrate [GH/s]   100000

I believe you simplified the hashrate number too much.
After the IPO you declared "This means that the mine will have a hashing power of > 103TH/s. We will equip the mine with enough boards to provide this power."

Tell us, there is still 200 MH/s per share or not?



Sure. The mine will have > 103TH/s . It does not change the calculation much.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 25, 2013, 11:32:06 AM
Sure. The mine will have > 103TH/s . It does not change the calculation much.

Hey gals and guys, I just figured something out. STOP BUYING EXXON SHARES! Do you realize how cheap a showel, a pickaxe, and a few empty barrels are? You could easily pick that up for $100.

Exxon produces almost 4bn barrels of oil every day. There are 4.4 billion shares outstanding, and they're paying $0.63 per share in dividends per quarter, or roughly $0.007 per day.

To make it easy, let's say they produce as many barrels of oil as there are shares outstanding. That means that for each barrel produced, you get $0.007 (not even a cent).

Sure. The operation will have >1 share/barrel. It does not change the calculation much.

With a selling price for oil at rougly $93, you need just north of one single barrel to get your money back, compared to 13'112.85 barrels if you buy Exxon shares.

At this rate, it will take just over 36 years to get your money back! Who knows whether there will even be oil in 36 years. This is a scam!

Exxon should immediately issue 40bn more shares at roughly $0.01 each because that is a comparable price to just digging oil yourself.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on May 25, 2013, 12:10:31 PM
ROFL @ MPOE-PR, like always. Mad again because someone didn't choose your exchange?

I really don't give a shit. It's however out of the question vaporware might have "chosen" MPEx. That's exactly not how it works, what's next, you've chosen Jessica Biel and she's mad again so she married whoever else?

I am in no way saying you are wrong or right about this company, but everything you type seems to be FUD against competition that doesn't use your exchange, followed by ad hominem attacks when people disagree. (You really call people retards quite often.)

This will forever more be known as the Ripple fallacy: abstracting everyone into XRPeople indiscriminately then pretending somebody who's bitchslapped about ten thousand retards to be "attacking XRPeople who disagree". No honey, I don't do anything to people. I attack retards who "disagree". And I attack them for being retarded because their purported "disagreement" is too broken to discuss. If that's not the case I just discuss the disagreement (I sometimes discuss it even if it is utterly broken - if it is at least somewhat novel/funny, like, for instance, now).

And you REALLY like to talk shit and pick on the people who don't seem to know much, while ignoring the educated or semi-educated replies you get.

This hasn't quite happened yet, no.

All while your baby Satoshi Dice continues to tank.

Let me put it this way: the representation of reality in terms of cartoons, which is to say anthropomorphized animals, makes retards think everything in the simplest of terms and stop there. Here's a newsflash: reality is a little more complex than "cat chases mouse" and "Policeman fined me for speeding so he's threatened by niggers".

Don't be a retard, dare to think. What if the reason I do what I do is that I actually know what the fuck I'm talking about and there's perfectly good reasons for it? What would they be? How well do they work with what I actually say? Congratulations, you're right on the path towards intellectual normalcy (normal but not common these days).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: EskimoBob on May 25, 2013, 06:48:44 PM
.....

Don't be a retard, dare to think. What if the reason I do what I do is that I actually know what the fuck I'm talking about and there's perfectly good reasons for it? What would they be? How well do they work with what I actually say? Congratulations, you're right on the path towards intellectual normalcy (normal but not common these days).

crickets... 


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 25, 2013, 09:43:06 PM
crickets... 

What did you expect, some kind of elaborate analysis comparing 100TH to AM and projecting profitability in a variety of scenarios?

Geez, some people are never happy. Try this:

http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Skrapps on May 26, 2013, 12:31:10 PM
crickets... 

What did you expect, some kind of elaborate analysis comparing 100TH to AM and projecting profitability in a variety of scenarios?

Geez, some people are never happy. Try this:

http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/

.b

Great write up furuknap! This helped me out a ton; now I just need to do some calculations of my own.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: EskimoBob on May 26, 2013, 01:02:07 PM
crickets... 

What did you expect, some kind of elaborate analysis comparing 100TH to AM and projecting profitability in a variety of scenarios?

Geez, some people are never happy. Try this:

http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/

.b

Elaborate analysis? LOL :)  No, I did not.
I have never expected this confused clown Mircea Popescu and/or his muppet MPOE-PRBS to write anything more than rubbish. Usual crap from a narcissistic pervert and his minion (or is she gone and Popescu parades around this forum as "her" now?)
And yes, when this  delusional arrogant little turd, Mircea Popescu, who has 0 experience in finances in real world, starts to call himself an authority on a subject... it's crickets time, every time :)

ROTFL


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on May 26, 2013, 09:43:00 PM
"Crickets" is a chat term that means "no one is responding to my question; please speak up, people" (http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/c/f/What-Is-Crickets.htm (http://netforbeginners.about.com/od/c/f/What-Is-Crickets.htm))
but it can be also something "said after a lame joke to break the silence" (http://www.internetslang.com/CRICKETS-meaning-definition.asp (http://www.internetslang.com/CRICKETS-meaning-definition.asp)).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on May 28, 2013, 05:05:11 PM
Is this project on time (as in will start mining July 1st)?

If not, when is mining expected to start?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on May 28, 2013, 05:56:20 PM
Is this project on time (as in will start mining July 1st)?

If not, when is mining expected to start?
Difficult to say as the chips are not yet in hand, but based on Bitfury's latest post on russian forums it's looking very promising!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: thx1164 on May 28, 2013, 06:58:06 PM
All while your baby Satoshi Dice continues to tank.

Let me put it this way: the representation of reality in terms of cartoons, which is to say anthropomorphized animals, makes retards think everything in the simplest of terms and stop there. Here's a newsflash: reality is a little more complex than "cat chases mouse" and "Policeman fined me for speeding so he's threatened by niggers".

Don't be a retard, dare to think. What if the reason I do what I do is that I actually know what the fuck I'm talking about and there's perfectly good reasons for it? What would they be? How well do they work with what I actually say? Congratulations, you're right on the path towards intellectual normalcy (normal but not common these days).

Wow, you quoted me several times, and each time pontificated beautifully while failing to address the actual points of the lines you quoted. Well done.

This quoted part is quite simple though. Sdice prices have fallen dramatically and stayed depressed for what, weeks now? Months? And dividends are laughable. Complicate that up for me a little bit? Is there some huge upgrade coming or influx of losing customers I don't know about that will skyrocket the price back up? Honestly if you have any insight, I will gladly take it into consideration, I am not brushing you off, just insanely curious about what complicates this issue so much. 3d my cartoon for me.

But this is OT and no need to clog up the thread, I actually originally just wanted to express my opinion of your analysis and PR methods, not necessarily the outcomes of said methods. Ad hom attacks against the weakest argument and least articulate people do not put you in a good light, IMO. That's all.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 28, 2013, 11:31:29 PM
Is this project on time (as in will start mining July 1st)?

If not, when is mining expected to start?
Difficult to say as the chips are not yet in hand, but based on Bitfury's latest post on russian forums it's looking very promising!

According to the latest update on picostocks, the first few chips will arrive this week. Anyone have a guess as to how soon we'll know if the chips are working as expected? Exciting times approaching!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Aedius on May 29, 2013, 01:47:05 AM
Oops, I missed the discussion on the thread ...

We are getting requests asking why we are "dumping" prices by offering shares from "73i6" (1AQxJQZtTNzUhviMjB8jqxxqL3Kbnm73i6 / Pico).
The main reason is that we want to increase liquidity because at low liquidity the price is too volatile. We can of course offer shares at higher prices but there must be a rational explanation of the valuation.
I believe the mine will be very successful in the first months but after that the revenues will drop (very) rapidly. The same will happen to the stock valuation. So this investment is quite tricky. To estimate the market cap of the 100th mine we have to predict how many BTC will be mined. 100k BTC are mined per month in total. I doubt the mine will make 100 BTC in the first two months. Other competitors will also fight for the mining revenues (BFL, maybe 28nm chip from helveticoin, and new batches of our chips). Also the chips have not been tested yet, so the investment is still very speculative.
We will update our projections in 3-4 weeks when we (hopefully) have functional boards.


So with the mine planned to commence on July 1st, you only expect to earn 100 BTC in the months of July and August before reaching full mining capacity on September 1st? Would appreciate it if you could clarify that sentence.

The bolded statement should be very worrying to investors...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 29, 2013, 02:07:08 AM
I think he meant 100k. He doubts 100TH will mine 100K coins per month due to competition (increased hashing power from others).

I doubt the diff will be so low by july. Simply by putting the 100TH mine online will cause difficulty to shoot up.

However...IF the diff is really that low and 100TH manages to meet its timelines, then 100TH needs to think about limiting how much hashing power comes online in case the mine gets too close to 50% total network speed. Not sure if ASICMINER is purposefully limiting their hash rate to below 30% or if they're just having deployment issues, but tytus et al should probably choose a safe operating percentage.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Aedius on May 29, 2013, 02:31:46 AM
crickets... 

What did you expect, some kind of elaborate analysis comparing 100TH to AM and projecting profitability in a variety of scenarios?

Geez, some people are never happy. Try this:

http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/

.b

Your financial projections and formulas for calculating the total network hash rate are incorrect (20% increase on 218 TH = ~262 TH, not 241 TH). The network is currently at ~100 TH and has increased at 20 TH/month for the past few months. Your projections start in August at 218 TH and 208 TH respectively, with the "100TH" mine planning to deploy ~103 TH, a realistic minimum projection for the total network hash rate would be ~240 TH. This could be much higher given that what's in the pipeline from ASICMINER, Avalon, Bitfury, BFL and others.

The expected start date and network hash rate projections are the main factors in evaluating this company as an investment. I'm surprised that the share price is trading at nearly 6 times the IPO price without much significant positive news.

I'm hoping to invest in this venture once more details of the mine are made clear, but for now this is a highly speculative investment and I would advise prospective investors to do their own due diligence and financial projections.

Not trying to call you out or anything; I had made a similar post to your blog outlining some factors you may have wanted to account for in your analysis but it looks to have been deleted.

Cheers


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Aedius on May 29, 2013, 02:47:16 AM
I think he meant 100k. He doubts 100TH will mine 100K coins per month due to competition (increased hashing power from others).

I doubt the diff will be so low by july. Simply by putting the 100TH mine online will cause difficulty to shoot up.

However...IF the diff is really that low and 100TH manages to meet its timelines, then 100TH needs to think about limiting how much hashing power comes online in case the mine gets too close to 50% total network speed. Not sure if ASICMINER is purposefully limiting their hash rate to below 30% or if they're just having deployment issues, but tytus et al should probably choose a safe operating percentage.

I hope that's the case!

100k coins per month would be impossible anyways... One block is solved every 10 minutes so 25x6x24 =3,600 bitcoins mined per day and 108,000 bitcoins per month. I think the best case scenario is that the project launches without any delays and and the total hash rate raises to 240 TH, meaning that the 100TH project would have 103 TH / 240 TH = 42.9% of the total hash rate and would generate approximately 46,332 bitcoins per month. I don't expect 100 TH to have that high a percentage of the network though.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 29, 2013, 06:05:29 AM
I think he meant 100k. He doubts 100TH will mine 100K coins per month due to competition (increased hashing power from others).

I doubt the diff will be so low by july. Simply by putting the 100TH mine online will cause difficulty to shoot up.

However...IF the diff is really that low and 100TH manages to meet its timelines, then 100TH needs to think about limiting how much hashing power comes online in case the mine gets too close to 50% total network speed. Not sure if ASICMINER is purposefully limiting their hash rate to below 30% or if they're just having deployment issues, but tytus et al should probably choose a safe operating percentage.

I hope that's the case!

100k coins per month would be impossible anyways... One block is solved every 10 minutes so 25x6x24 =3,600 bitcoins mined per day and 108,000 bitcoins per month. I think the best case scenario is that the project launches without any delays and and the total hash rate raises to 240 TH, meaning that the 100TH project would have 103 TH / 240 TH = 42.9% of the total hash rate and would generate approximately 46,332 bitcoins per month. I don't expect 100 TH to have that high a percentage of the network though.


Oops good point. I'm not sure about my interpretation then.

Your 240TH is "close" to my projections...I'm thinking possibly up to ~275-280TH (I'm probably giving BFL too much credit) with only a 50TH rollout from 100TH. ASICMINER had problems rolling out even 20TH. However, given Bitfury's 3.3GH/W chip, the power requirements for this mine are significantly less than that of AM and 100TH might have a much easier time rolling out the full hashing rate.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 29, 2013, 12:00:14 PM
crickets...  

What did you expect, some kind of elaborate analysis comparing 100TH to AM and projecting profitability in a variety of scenarios?

Geez, some people are never happy. Try this:

http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/

.b

Your financial projections and formulas for calculating the total network hash rate are incorrect (20% increase on 218 TH = ~262 TH, not 241 TH). The network is currently at ~100 TH and has increased at 20 TH/month for the past few months.

Your projections start in August at 218 TH and 208 TH respectively, with the "100TH" mine planning to deploy ~103 TH, a realistic minimum projection for the total network hash rate would be ~240 TH. This could be much higher given that what's in the pipeline from ASICMINER, Avalon, Bitfury, BFL and others.


I responded to this and most of your other comments in the article post. In brief, however, I've excluded 100TH from the percentage increase because 100TH does not grow and to counter this the rest of the network growth must double (ie be 40% per month rather than 20%).

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: nullfiat on May 30, 2013, 09:29:06 AM
Div/share per month calculation. Maybe I missed it here. Can someone give the formula?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on May 30, 2013, 10:04:28 AM
Assuming 30% of total hashrate it should be 0.065 per share. Monthly.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Aedius on May 30, 2013, 04:35:09 PM
Div/share per month calculation. Maybe I missed it here. Can someone give the formula?

I believe there are approximately 500,000 shares outstanding for the 100TH project and 108,000 bitcoins mined per month for the entire network. The profitability of this investment depends on when the project is fully operational and how fast the total network hash rate increases. You can create your own projections based on the information provided.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ronaldlee0917 on May 30, 2013, 04:41:30 PM
Div/share per month calculation. Maybe I missed it here. Can someone give the formula?
Since each share = 200MH/s, you may use a standard mining profitability calculator to estimate the profit for each share.
please try: http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ (http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/) (Forum warning: Possible phishing link!)
modify hash rate to 200
modify difficulty to the estimated difficulty for July
then deduct management cost and electricity cost


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: fently on May 30, 2013, 08:39:42 PM
Div/share per month calculation. Maybe I missed it here. Can someone give the formula?
Since each share = 200MH/s, you may use a standard mining profitability calculator to estimate the profit for each share.
please try: http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ (Forum warning: Possible phishing link!)
modify hash rate to 200
modify difficulty to the estimated difficulty for July
then deduct management cost and electricity cost

I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but given the above quoted exchange, it needs to be said: you need to factor in risk. The project could still fail to deliver expected outcomes.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on May 31, 2013, 05:46:59 AM
Div/share per month calculation. Maybe I missed it here. Can someone give the formula?
Since each share = 200MH/s, you may use a standard mining profitability calculator to estimate the profit for each share.
please try: http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ (Forum warning: Possible phishing link!)
modify hash rate to 200
modify difficulty to the estimated difficulty for July
then deduct management cost and electricity cost

I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but given the above quoted exchange, it needs to be said: you need to factor in risk. The project could still fail to deliver expected outcomes.

As with anything. Risk is definitely taken into account at the current price I think.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on May 31, 2013, 03:08:28 PM
As with anything. Risk is definitely taken into account at the current price I think.

That's very difficult to determine because the upsides and downsides are so big here. Obviously, unless you somehow trade options and futures, you can't lose more than your investment, which is a likely scenario if the chips fail. On the other hand, even slight delays in shipping from BFL and Avalon (or others) can lead to a massive upside that isn't even remotely priced into the share price at the moment.

Even my analysis doesn't account for the possibility that BFL or Avalon remains off the market for a long time. We know they are shipping _something_ but we don't have any real numbers and don't know the long-term feasibility of their deliveries. Someone may be excused for speculating that neither of those vendors will not deliver by October, in which case the current share price is a steal.

Of course, if Bitfury comes back tomorrow and says "Sorry, we messed up and the chips don't work" then the current price, or any price, is a complete loss.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on May 31, 2013, 05:03:11 PM
As with anything. Risk is definitely taken into account at the current price I think.

That's very difficult to determine because the upsides and downsides are so big here. Obviously, unless you somehow trade options and futures, you can't lose more than your investment, which is a likely scenario if the chips fail. On the other hand, even slight delays in shipping from BFL and Avalon (or others) can lead to a massive upside that isn't even remotely priced into the share price at the moment.

Even my analysis doesn't account for the possibility that BFL or Avalon remains off the market for a long time. We know they are shipping _something_ but we don't have any real numbers and don't know the long-term feasibility of their deliveries. Someone may be excused for speculating that neither of those vendors will not deliver by October, in which case the current share price is a steal.

Of course, if Bitfury comes back tomorrow and says "Sorry, we messed up and the chips don't work" then the current price, or any price, is a complete loss.

.b

Right, that's what I mean. I think, meaning, it's my opinion, that the current price is sufficiently cheap enough for me to risk never seeing these Bitcoins again, taking in consideration the profit and dividends if they succeed. I have faith in bitfury. Not as much as friedcat though.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Transisto on May 31, 2013, 05:14:37 PM
As with anything. Risk is definitely taken into account at the current price I think.
..............

Of course, if Bitfury comes back tomorrow and says "Sorry, we messed up and the chips don't work" then the current price, or any price, is a complete loss. ..

Not a complete loss because the chip order is insured.

Code:
If the chips fail to meet the expected performance the manufacturer will provide the mine
with additional boards to achieve the expected hashrate of 100TH/s (or 0.2GH/s per
raised 1USD). If the chips fail to achieve the expected power efficiency the manufacturer
will renegotiate the management deal with the hosting data center and compensate the
100TH-mine project for the losses. If the chips fail completely a substantial delay in
mining will occur. The manufacturer will undertake an effort to reimburse the investors
not only for the invested capital but also for the lost income up to the level of 10 USD per
invested 5 USD


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on May 31, 2013, 06:02:26 PM

Even my analysis doesn't account for the possibility that BFL or Avalon remains off the market for a long time. We know they are shipping _something_ but we don't have any real numbers and don't know the long-term feasibility of their deliveries. Someone may be excused for speculating that neither of those vendors will not deliver by October, in which case the current share price is a steal.


And this is something that we all need to keep adjusting in our calculations. I made some projections weeks (months?) ago about the potential earnings for 100TH. The projections have changed dramatically since BFL/Avalon have delayed and AM is not being aggressive with their rollout. My current projections are nearly double of what I initially calculated.

IF 100TH can meet their projected timelines, the price is still good (of course this all depends on what kind of ROI you want and how fast you want).


FWIW, I don't think projecting more than 24 months out makes any sense. IMO, the earnings curve quickly plateaus starting around 18 months from now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on June 01, 2013, 10:06:06 AM
Code:
If the chips fail to meet the expected performance the manufacturer will provide the mine
with additional boards to achieve the expected hashrate of 100TH/s (or 0.2GH/s per
raised 1USD). If the chips fail to achieve the expected power efficiency the manufacturer
will renegotiate the management deal with the hosting data center and compensate the
100TH-mine project for the losses. If the chips fail completely a substantial delay in
mining will occur. The manufacturer will undertake an effort to reimburse the investors
not only for the invested capital but also for the lost income up to the level of 10 USD per
invested 5 USD

I don't know who in his right mind imagines such fantasy is worth the forum paper it's printed on. With what money will a manufacturer that blew its product compensate investors "not only for capital but also for "lost" income"? If it didn't need the capital to build the chip it wouldn't need the investors. If it spends the capital on building the chip it has nothing left over to compensate anyone. Look at bASIC (this guy's previous pseudo"investment"), look at BFL, look wherever you want. This "we invest and if things go well we make bank yet if things go badly we get everything back plus more" doesn't exist outside of Kramerica Industries.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 02, 2013, 02:18:15 AM
Tytus,

According to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=221200.0, Metabank and Bitfury have started accepting orders for their miners. Is it safe to assume based on that post that this means Bitfury has tested the chips and they are working?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 02, 2013, 03:51:13 PM
Tytus,

According to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=221200.0, Metabank and Bitfury have started accepting orders for their miners. Is it safe to assume based on that post that this means Bitfury has tested the chips and they are working?

.b

Google Translate:

I can say that 99.9% of the chip will have no problems with power supply and shreds

I don't know enough about chip design to fully understand whether this is the test for failure that was pending until now, but this at least to me seems like good news. I know performance still needs to be tested.

Can someone fluent in Russian and English please read that post and see what is actually being said?

We're really eager for an official update from 100TH...

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Xtc on June 02, 2013, 06:37:54 PM
Quote
that this means Bitfury has tested the chips and they are working
No, chips are not yet delivered

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2349211#msg2349211
Quote
статус когда нам доставят микросхемы думаю узнаю завтра-послезавтра, надеюсь на неделе получим.
At this week


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 03, 2013, 04:01:59 AM
Quote
that this means Bitfury has tested the chips and they are working
No, chips are not yet delivered

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2349211#msg2349211
Quote
статус когда нам доставят микросхемы думаю узнаю завтра-послезавтра, надеюсь на неделе получим.
At this week

Ah, thanks!

In other news, 100TH was listed as the second most desired Bitcoin asset last week on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinStocks/wiki/rbs3

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 03, 2013, 04:09:09 AM
Quote
that this means Bitfury has tested the chips and they are working
No, chips are not yet delivered

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2349211#msg2349211
Quote
статус когда нам доставят микросхемы думаю узнаю завтра-послезавтра, надеюсь на неделе получим.
At this week

Ah, thanks!

In other news, 100TH was listed as the second most desired Bitcoin asset last week on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinStocks/wiki/rbs3

.b

interesting survey, but pretty small sample size. 100th is 2nd with 2 votes :p. The other interesting fact is that none of the people surveyed said they owned 100th.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: slightboyme on June 03, 2013, 11:05:07 PM
I may have missed this but what is the relationship between this project and the Metabank 120G pre order that is going on right now? Are we talking about the same timeline or this is going to be online sooner? I am deciding which one I should invest.

Thanks


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 03, 2013, 11:06:48 PM
I may have missed this but what is the relationship between this project and the Metabank 120G pre order that is going on right now? Are we talking about the same timeline or this is going to be online sooner? I am deciding which one I should invest.

100TH is a mine
Metabank is a miner

What a difference an r makes :-)

Both use Bitfury's ASICs, though.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on June 03, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
100th will be the first.

100TH - July
Metabank miner - August-October (?)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: slightboyme on June 03, 2013, 11:47:27 PM
I guess the part I am trying to understand is what evidence do we have that indicates 100TH will deploy before Metabank ships their 120G miner? Is 100TH simply hosting tons of the same product that is going for preorder at the moment or are we talking about something very different, thus the potential early deployment?

Thanks


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 04, 2013, 01:44:20 AM
I guess the part I am trying to understand is what evidence do we have that indicates 100TH will deploy before Metabank ships their 120G miner? Is 100TH simply hosting tons of the same product that is going for preorder at the moment or are we talking about something very different, thus the potential early deployment?

Thanks

I'm not sure when metabank will get their chips, but they are getting them from tytus et al.


If metabank gets the chips at the same time (or very soon after) as 100th, then I guess it could be a race to see who is able to assemble their hardware faster. I don't know how Metabank will package their ASICS, but 100th doesn't need to put things into a pretty box, so this could potentially give 100th a slight edge.
/speculation


Metabank definitely offers a good price, but 100th offers ( a little bit of ) liquidity.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on June 04, 2013, 02:21:24 AM
I guess the part I am trying to understand is what evidence do we have that indicates 100TH will deploy before Metabank ships their 120G miner? Is 100TH simply hosting tons of the same product that is going for preorder at the moment or are we talking about something very different, thus the potential early deployment?

Thanks

I'm not sure when metabank will get their chips, but they are getting them from tytus et al.


If metabank gets the chips at the same time (or very soon after) as 100th, then I guess it could be a race to see who is able to assemble their hardware faster. I don't know how Metabank will package their ASICS, but 100th doesn't need to put things into a pretty box, so this could potentially give 100th a slight edge.
/speculation


Metabank definitely offers a good price, but 100th offers ( a little bit of ) liquidity.

I missed how this all began but I always assumed Bitfury made a deal with the 100TH guys to create chip for them, 100TH manufactures 100TH in their Taiwan factory for themselves, then for Metabank to sell on behalf of Bitfury. Kind of like you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on June 04, 2013, 02:55:48 PM
Code:
Chip packaging delay
The packaging facility will ship the chips on 2013-06-10. We have 2 weeks delay :-(
Created on 2013-06-04 15:44:00 by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-04 15:45:33 by koji;

 >:(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 04, 2013, 03:27:12 PM
Code:
Chip packaging delay
The packaging facility will ship the chips on 2013-06-10. We have 2 weeks delay :-(
Created on 2013-06-04 15:44:00 by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-04 15:45:33 by koji;

 >:(

Ouch... What does this mean for the Bitbet thing from Bitfury? Is it even possible that the bet can still be Yes? From what I read, only the public demo must be announced two weeks in advance, but a private confirmation can come at any time, so perhaps there is still hope for Yes-betters?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on June 04, 2013, 05:49:30 PM
Code:
Chip packaging delay
The packaging facility will ship the chips on 2013-06-10. We have 2 weeks delay :-(
Created on 2013-06-04 15:44:00 by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-04 15:45:33 by koji;

 >:(

Ouch... What does this mean for the Bitbet thing from Bitfury? Is it even possible that the bet can still be Yes? From what I read, only the public demo must be announced two weeks in advance, but a private confirmation can come at any time, so perhaps there is still hope for Yes-betters?

.b

It ships on the 10th. He has 5 days to receive it and test it. Seems like he only expected 1 day to test it before the delay. 4 day shipping, go go go.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 04, 2013, 06:16:36 PM
It ships on the 10th. He has 5 days to receive it and test it. Seems like he only expected 1 day to test it before the delay. 4 day shipping, go go go.

In terms of the bet, he has one day to test it and get an independent and respected community member to review. That might be cutting it awefully close...

I'm not a gambling man, but I'm not sure I would bet that he makes it.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RichG on June 04, 2013, 11:11:35 PM
Instead of using USD, can I purchase shares with BTC instead?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on June 04, 2013, 11:25:20 PM
Instead of using USD, can I purchase shares with BTC instead?

In before

http://i.imgur.com/3YRiR8f.png


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 04, 2013, 11:33:14 PM
Instead of using USD, can I purchase shares with BTC instead?
You must be new here


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on June 05, 2013, 12:27:43 AM
It ships on the 10th. He has 5 days to receive it and test it. Seems like he only expected 1 day to test it before the delay. 4 day shipping, go go go.

In terms of the bet, he has one day to test it and get an independent and respected community member to review. That might be cutting it awefully close...

I'm not a gambling man, but I'm not sure I would bet that he makes it.

.b

If you're in Bitcoin and these securities, you are absolutely a gambling man :P

I agree. I'm not sure either, and who knows how he'll get judged on the terms.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 05, 2013, 04:27:31 AM
If you're in Bitcoin and these securities, you are absolutely a gambling man :P

Unlike what most people think, investing in Bitcoin is no different than investing in other currencies. Risks can be mitigated just like they can in regular markets. You can earn money going up and going down.

There's no gambling involved, unless you're ignorant, in which case you can probably just give your money away so at least it will be quick if not less painful.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on June 05, 2013, 05:46:33 AM
If you're in Bitcoin and these securities, you are absolutely a gambling man :P

Unlike what most people think, investing in Bitcoin is no different than investing in other currencies. Risks can be mitigated just like they can in regular markets. You can earn money going up and going down.

There's no gambling involved, unless you're ignorant, in which case you can probably just give your money away so at least it will be quick if not less painful.

.b

I agree in part. You're at least making it a big part of your life, or it's a gamble. You know, checking it all the time, alarms, etc. I ride it up and down, but I still think that's a gamble because everybody has to sleep. I don't think my price alarm will wake me up, and if, god forbid, it tanks while I'm sleeping, I'll be down a large sum for a hopefully not so long haul back up. I take the gamble happily. You don't make money while BTC is going down though unfortunately; where are you shorting? OTC options? I haven't tried that yet. You're doing that furuknap? You can short the stocks at least...

You're right in part but I think you know BTC moves a bit quicker than other currencies, and thus requires more upkeep. Good if it's your day job.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 05, 2013, 05:48:01 AM
stuff

So it was ignorance...

Sorry to hear that.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 06, 2013, 05:09:49 PM
I think he meant 100k. He doubts 100TH will mine 100K coins per month due to competition (increased hashing power from others).

I doubt the diff will be so low by july. Simply by putting the 100TH mine online will cause difficulty to shoot up.

However...IF the diff is really that low and 100TH manages to meet its timelines, then 100TH needs to think about limiting how much hashing power comes online in case the mine gets too close to 50% total network speed. Not sure if ASICMINER is purposefully limiting their hash rate to below 30% or if they're just having deployment issues, but tytus et al should probably choose a safe operating percentage.

I hope that's the case!

100k coins per month would be impossible anyways... One block is solved every 10 minutes so 25x6x24 =3,600 bitcoins mined per day and 108,000 bitcoins per month. I think the best case scenario is that the project launches without any delays and and the total hash rate raises to 240 TH, meaning that the 100TH project would have 103 TH / 240 TH = 42.9% of the total hash rate and would generate approximately 46,332 bitcoins per month. I don't expect 100 TH to have that high a percentage of the network though.


Oops good point. I'm not sure about my interpretation then.

Your 240TH is "close" to my projections...I'm thinking possibly up to ~275-280TH (I'm probably giving BFL too much credit) with only a 50TH rollout from 100TH. ASICMINER had problems rolling out even 20TH. However, given Bitfury's 3.3GH/W chip, the power requirements for this mine are significantly less than that of AM and 100TH might have a much easier time rolling out the full hashing rate.


The recent diff jump and projected NextDiff come out to be right in line with what I was expecting for June.

Optimistically, I was hoping 100TH would come on line at ~21M diff (150TH), but am planning/projecting closer to ~38M diff (275TH). IF 100TH can manage to deploy ~21M diff, I expect the return to be around 0.55 per share (yes, with a large margin of error).

Either way 100TH is still going to bring a nice return (hopefully there won't be many more delays to push the deployment date out).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: auto2nr1 on June 06, 2013, 07:44:36 PM
I just registered for PicoStocks and would like to buy shares for 100TH. I have yet to fund my account and will do so later tonight but how am i able to  buy shares? When i log into my bitfunder account i can add qty and shares i want to purchase at a certain value. I don't see that on PicoStock. Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ChronoX5 on June 06, 2013, 08:38:09 PM
I just registered for PicoStocks and would like to buy shares for 100TH. I have yet to fund my account and will do so later tonight but how am i able to  buy shares? When i log into my bitfunder account i can add qty and shares i want to purchase at a certain value. I don't see that on PicoStock. Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

Click on assets, then on 100th and if you are logged in there will be large buy and sell buttons in the upper right corner.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: auto2nr1 on June 06, 2013, 10:08:14 PM
I just registered for PicoStocks and would like to buy shares for 100TH. I have yet to fund my account and will do so later tonight but how am i able to  buy shares? When i log into my bitfunder account i can add qty and shares i want to purchase at a certain value. I don't see that on PicoStock. Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

Click on assets, then on 100th and if you are logged in there will be large buy and sell buttons in the upper right corner.

Thanks for the heads up. I don't see it when i log in but i will fund my account later on and then i will see if it shows up then.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mabsark on June 07, 2013, 05:05:52 AM
I just registered for PicoStocks and would like to buy shares for 100TH. I have yet to fund my account and will do so later tonight but how am i able to  buy shares? When i log into my bitfunder account i can add qty and shares i want to purchase at a certain value. I don't see that on PicoStock. Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

Click on assets, then on 100th and if you are logged in there will be large buy and sell buttons in the upper right corner.

Thanks for the heads up. I don't see it when i log in but i will fund my account later on and then i will see if it shows up then.

I was wondering the same thing. They only showed up once I had added funds to my account.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on June 07, 2013, 06:16:43 AM
I found that ctrl+wheel mouse zooms the screen so that you can see the Buy/Sell (upper right hand corner).  Or scroll the horizontal bar to the right, while at the top of the page.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on June 07, 2013, 06:52:08 AM
Dave, MegaBigPower is ready? Security, links ...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on June 07, 2013, 07:07:37 AM
Dave, MegaBigPower is ready? Security, links ...

We are getting there.  A lot of work has been done but there is still a lot to do.  We will be ready for 100TH - I'm excited!  I'll provide more details as we get a little closer and have some pretty pictures to share...



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on June 07, 2013, 12:24:42 PM
I'll provide more details as we get a little closer and have some pretty pictures to share...
That would be really great !
100TH pr0n ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on June 08, 2013, 05:21:05 AM

I live in WA state, and I am also a shareholder. Is there ever a chance for the public to see the mining equipment in action? I just think it’s so cool that a place called “The Buckle of the Power Belt of the Great Northwest” is going to be minting many new bitcoins right in my backyard, and all by the might of water and gravity!

Discovering that the equipment was going to be hosted here was a big reason I invested actually.

I'll be ok with some pretty pictures / video if that's all there can be. ;D


Especially with the giant Tesla coil I'm gonna have :P

We'll see what we can support.  Right now the security of the actual physical location(s) is very important. 


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 08, 2013, 07:34:32 AM
FYI for those that didn't see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.0
Bitfury is looking for alpha testers for independent verification of chips.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on June 08, 2013, 02:15:49 PM
FYI for those that didn't see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.0
Bitfury is looking for alpha testers for independent verification of chips.
Good!! :o


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 08, 2013, 08:13:15 PM
FYI for those that didn't see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.0
Bitfury is looking for alpha testers for independent verification of chips.
Good!! :o


yeah, it's good to see bitfury reaching out to the community like this...it really lends credibility to 100TH and Metabank. when tytus/bitfury start selling chips i'll be right there to put in a nice bulk order. unfortunately, the timing doesn't work out for me to help alpha test this coming week (i really wish i could).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 09, 2013, 04:34:59 AM
Seems we're further delayed:

Quote
More chip delay

The packaging company postponed the delivery to 13th. We will try to convinced them that this is not a nice move :-). We understand that each day is a very big loss. They are maybe not aware of this yet so we sent our Agent to Taiwan. We will consider changing the packaging contractor.

 Created on 2013-06-09 00:33:00 by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-09 00:36:34 by koji;


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 09, 2013, 06:25:08 AM
the semi industry is shady as hell. they just tell you the timeframes you want to hear to get your business.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on June 11, 2013, 08:44:19 PM
Quote from: https://picostocks.com/docs/view/53 on June 9th, 2013 at 00:36:34
The packaging company postponed the delivery to 13th. We will try to convinced them that this is not a nice move :-). We understand that each day is a very big loss. They are maybe not aware of this yet so we sent our Agent to Taiwan. We will consider changing the packaging contractor.

Any news from your agent yet?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on June 11, 2013, 09:50:39 PM
Any news about the hack?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133147.msg2432036#msg2432036


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: pajak666 on June 12, 2013, 11:27:31 AM
Agent was probably lost in Taiwan


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on June 12, 2013, 04:59:58 PM
Agent was probably lost in Taiwan

Oh dear!  Time to send in the Bitcoin Police!

http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/CopSegway_270x298.jpg


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: CtmanGer on June 12, 2013, 07:21:34 PM
Hello!


I have a problem
Where is the buy / sell button? more interested into the buy thingy :)

I need help... went through tread tied the zoom out zoom in suggestion ,other browsers, restarted...



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 12, 2013, 07:39:29 PM
After you login, goto the 100Th asset summary (https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19). Buy/Sell will be in the top right corner of the page. I believe you need funds in order to see the options.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on June 12, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
About agent:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2452981#msg2452981


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: circuitry on June 14, 2013, 09:25:56 AM
What is the current projection for coming online, or at least for having all the hardware ready to test in the MegaBigPower site?

Time is of the essence here. Some updates wouldn't hurt.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on June 14, 2013, 11:37:49 AM
Quote
217 chips have been received from the packaging factory in Taiwan few minutes ago. We will start testing the chips in 2-3 hours from now.
To improve liquidity and prevent huge price fluctuations Pico (https://picostocks.com/users/view/23) will set now an ask order at 0.4BTC, which is above the current trading price and above the all-time-high price.
Created on 2013-06-14 12:57:00    by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-14 13:05:22    by koji;

So, good news and bad news...
I hope that chips will work and that 5k share wall will disapear quickly...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on June 14, 2013, 02:09:26 PM
Quote
To improve liquidity and prevent huge price fluctuations Pico (https://picostocks.com/users/view/23) will set now an ask order at 0.4BTC, which is above the current trading price and above the all-time-high price.
This is terrible >:(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: circuitry on June 14, 2013, 02:26:47 PM
Quote
217 chips have been received from the packaging factory in Taiwan few minutes ago. We will start testing the chips in 2-3 hours from now.
To improve liquidity and prevent huge price fluctuations Pico (https://picostocks.com/users/view/23) will set now an ask order at 0.4BTC, which is above the current trading price and above the all-time-high price.
Created on 2013-06-14 12:57:00    by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-14 13:05:22    by koji;

So, good news and bad news...
I hope that chips will work and that 5k share wall will disapear quickly...

żAre those 217 chips a significant part of the total hashpower, or just a tiny test batch? żIn case the chips are fine, will they be part of the 100TH mine or are they still "rough" material?

I have so many questions :D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on June 14, 2013, 02:27:49 PM
i think the 0.4 BTC ask wall is a fair move. there's already more than enough unfounded speculation going on and an ask wall at 0.4BTC gives still enough headroom for profit if you're only in it to speculate with shares.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Andrey on June 14, 2013, 02:28:48 PM
żAre those 217 chips a significant part of the total hashpower, or just a tiny test batch? żIn case the chips are fine, will they be part of the 100TH mine or are they still "rough" material?

each chip is about 5gh/s, so 217 chips is about 1TH (about 0.007 of total network hashrate)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 14, 2013, 02:35:44 PM
Quote
To improve liquidity and prevent huge price fluctuations Pico (https://picostocks.com/users/view/23) will set now an ask order at 0.4BTC, which is above the current trading price and above the all-time-high price.
This is terrible >:(

I agree, I would have thought the issuer would have learned from last time, but apparently market manipulation is on the agenda in the foreseeable future.

We've run huge, huge risks by investing, not knowing whether the stock will crash to zero at any time. Now that it seems more likely the investors can get the reward for such a risk, the issuer or the stock exchange goes out and kills off the reward.

It's not terrible, it's a disaster. Really sad, this was such a promising venture. I'm out. Thanks for the ride, but this really kills the asset as an investment and is a serious blow to Picostocks as a platform.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 14, 2013, 02:40:20 PM
i think the 0.4 BTC ask wall is a fair move. there's already more than enough unfounded speculation going on and an ask wall at 0.4BTC gives still enough headroom for profit if you're only in it to speculate with shares.

Either you have no idea how a stock market works or you're just trying to further manipulate the market. This isn't a fair move, it is a catastrophe.

I'm happy I got a good rise from my 'investment' but when I'm held back in the potential reward I can get in an open market simply because the issuer doesn't think the market knows what it's doing and want to control that, I can't be on board anymore. I'm taking my profits and walking out.

I really can't see why people would want to invest more risk into this asset as it's clear that their reward for doing so will be taken away by the exchange.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on June 14, 2013, 02:46:39 PM
i think the 0.4 BTC ask wall is a fair move. there's already more than enough unfounded speculation going on and an ask wall at 0.4BTC gives still enough headroom for profit if you're only in it to speculate with shares.

Either you have no idea how a stock market works or you're just trying to further manipulate the market. This isn't a fair move, it is a catastrophe.

I'm happy I got a good rise from my 'investment' but when I'm held back in the potential reward I can get in an open market simply because the issuer doesn't think the market knows what it's doing and want to control that, I can't be on board anymore. I'm taking my profits and walking out.

I really can't see why people would want to invest more risk into this asset as it's clear that their reward for doing so will be taken away by the exchange.

.b
As I know,only China Gov does this kind of  thing. ::)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: circuitry on June 14, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
Quote
To improve liquidity and prevent huge price fluctuations Pico (https://picostocks.com/users/view/23) will set now an ask order at 0.4BTC, which is above the current trading price and above the all-time-high price.
This is terrible >:(

I'm out. Thanks for the ride, but this really kills the asset as an investment and is a serious blow to Picostocks as a platform.

.b

Me and several other people I know heard about the 100TH project thanks to furuknap's post. It echoed both on Bitcointalk and Reddit, and probably brought more than a few investors on board. Reading this is, frankly, a bit disturbing. Not to raise any alarms, but if the real reason behind Picostocks coding their own exchange is to manipulate the market (it's called free market for a reason), well, it really sucks.

Are the big shareholders OK with this? Do they actually have ANY say on this decision?

Also I assume Picostocks are going to be radically opposed to any form of 100TH passthrough asset in any of the other exchanges, since they can't be manipulated at will.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on June 14, 2013, 02:56:05 PM
Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

This is a good idea. I will report the desire to sell shares at some price 48h before I place the order.
UGH!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 14, 2013, 03:10:55 PM
As a result of the recent move by Picostocks and its owners, I've felt the need to update my articles on stock exchanges and 100TH.

Here's my updated warning on the "Where to buy Bitcoin and Litecoin Shares" http://coin.furuknap.net/where-to-buy-bitcoin-and-litecoin-shares/:

Quote
Update: A word of warning, though, and a clear indication of how unregulated the Bitcoin stock market is. When a certain piece of good news comes through on Picostocks, the stock exchange itself has a tendency to dump large amounts of shares in the market, preventing any reward for risk-taking on this exchange.

As such, I cannot really recommend anyone investing on Picostocks.com as you can be certain that the reward you would normally get for accepting risk will be taken away.

From the analysis of 100TH compared to ASICMiner (http://coin.furuknap.net/can-100th-really-be-the-next-asicminer/), I've added this text:

Quote
Update: I’ve felt the need to add a very real risk on June 14 following a very strange move from the stock exchange at which 100TH trades. Please read on, and I’m sorry to say this is not as much a risk as a serious issue with an unregulated market now made manifest by Picostocks.

Market Manipulation
Picostocks, the stock exchange on which 100TH is traded, has a track record of market price manipulation whenever there are good news regarding 100TH. The price manipulation is done by dumping large amounts of shares on the market just above or even below current trading prices, preventing investors who takes huge risks from getting huge rewards from those risks.

Effectively, this kills off 100TH as an investment to me. As any experienced investor will know, you balance risk against potential reward, and usually expect a large risk to come with the potential for a large reward. With Picostocks manipulation and dumping of shares, this isn’t really the case anymore and investors only carry the risk without the potential reward.

Note: Picostocks is run by the same people that run 100TH. In fact, all the assets on Picostocks are run by the same people.

Tytus, the CEO of the operation, promised after the first dump in May to give advance notice to the market before dumping shares. However, on June 14, 2013, he broke that promise by putting up a massive dump of shares right after 100TH announced that the chips had shipped from the factory.

Of course, even when 100TH starts mining, there is no guarantee that this price manipulation will cease, so I’m sorry to say, this no longer is a viable asset to me.

This really too a turn for the absolute worst, and to be honest, I feel betrayed by Tytus and the 100TH/Picostocks team.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: joris on June 14, 2013, 03:21:29 PM
All shares on the market were paid for in BTC at the IPO, as far as I know, so if the managing team want to reap some profits from their own investment by selling the shares they've invested BTC themselves in, go ahead. They even post them at the bullish side and publish the posting.

It is already a bit overpriced, since you get only a fixed 200 Mhash/s for 0.4 BTC, while there's nothing but risks at the moment. But the herd will stampede it up and up and up, till the last suckers can only go down from the top. All welcome, I'll appreciate the coming trading volume on and attention brought to PicoStocks, as ordinary shareholder.

Anyway, good luck on the journey to the 1.0 BTC mark and the MT in exploiting the 100th mine. Sounds somewhat less exotic these days than at the start of the year.












Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: joris on June 14, 2013, 03:33:36 PM
I'm sorry, I find it just disturbing: some entrepreneurs work and risk their time to build a 100th mine, they offer the public to profit of their work by investing only 0.04 BTC per 200 Mhash/s in their enterprise, the share price has subsequently almost tenfolded on nothing and what do you get as thank you: whining forum members when you sell a tiny bit of the shares you paid for yourselves.  :(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on June 14, 2013, 03:35:07 PM
It is really sad to see Tytus being guilt manipulated like this. This is no different than any other major shareholder selling at the price they want to.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: zefir on June 14, 2013, 03:35:32 PM
furuknap and others,

I am not really understanding what you are criticizing here, maybe you can shortly enlighten me.

tytus is the issuer of this stock, but also a major shareholder. This is Bitcoin, and you do not really expect that every issuer will ask for permissions to buy or sell his own stock, are you?

I operated a mining bond on GLBSE last year, and to protect investors from fat-finger-trades I always had some bid/ask walls at some distance from the current market price. I never asked anyone for permissions to do so, and I do not get why you expect tytus to limit himself trading his stock? After all free market means free for all, so if you feel the 0.4 ask is too low, why don't you buy in? Claiming he is destroying your alleged profits sounds two-faced to me. Or am I missing something?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: frejo on June 14, 2013, 03:40:45 PM
Yeah, it's not like they are issuing new stock, they are selling their own stock which is fine by me.

I don't find it likely that it would pass 0.4 btc / share since each share is fixed at 200 MH

Counting from the next difficulty (which could be 18925290 with an increase of 20% for every other week after that) each share would generate 0.343 btc in three months if my calculations are correct.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on June 14, 2013, 04:53:07 PM
To chime in again:

1) tytus has the right to sell his shares at any price he wants. he's not issuing new shares, he's not underbidding every other stockholder, all he did was put up an ask order at a price that he found appropiate, with reasonable distance above the current market price.

2) i think it's fair in the way that without tytus' ask wall it would just end up being a race to the bottom. 0.4 BTC for 200MH of Bitfury's Chips is already steep enough (you'd get the same for a tenth of the price using one of the group buys, but hush, don't tell anyone). If the stampede sets in, well then even tytus' ask wall won't stop it and the price may move on. But for now let's try to stay civilized and not lead the sheep to the butcher just yet.

3) not trying to manipulate the market here. just trying to talk some sense into people, all this fingerlicking greed isn't going to lead us anywhere.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 14, 2013, 04:55:18 PM
furuknap and others,

I am not really understanding what you are criticizing here, maybe you can shortly enlighten me.

tytus is the issuer of this stock, but also a major shareholder. This is Bitcoin, and you do not really expect that every issuer will ask for permissions to buy or sell his own stock, are you?

I operated a mining bond on GLBSE last year, and to protect investors from fat-finger-trades I always had some bid/ask walls at some distance from the current market price. I never asked anyone for permissions to do so, and I do not get why you expect tytus to limit himself trading his stock? After all free market means free for all, so if you feel the 0.4 ask is too low, why don't you buy in? Claiming he is destroying your alleged profits sounds two-faced to me. Or am I missing something?


I agree with this.


Tytus selling his shares IS the free market. It's not like he issued more shares. He could have slowly leaked shares into the market...but even that could be seen as manipulating the market higher.


Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.


This is not a typical stock where the value of the stock can be maintained as long as the company is solvent. I hope every one that wants to panic buy understands that overtime the value of the security goes DOWN.




Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: silvermario on June 14, 2013, 05:02:19 PM
To chime in again:




3) not trying to manipulate the market here. just trying to talk some sense into people, all this fingerlicking greed isn't going to lead us anywhere.

^^ This

It wasn't furuknap who posted such nonsense, it was his greed.

He probably made 100% ROI in a week or two and he wanted to make 200%.

Tytus how could you?? How could you sell stocks you bought earlier yourself at IPO price?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Felipeo on June 14, 2013, 05:05:52 PM
tytus is the issuer of this stock, but also a major shareholder. This is Bitcoin, and you do not really expect that every issuer will ask for permissions to buy or sell his own stock, are you?

Same here, it's tytus shares he can make what he want with it,
he is directly associate with Pico and 100th project and when looking on his HiTech project experience, IMO he know what he is doing.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dwdoc on June 14, 2013, 05:10:42 PM
What would be unfair is if he bought a bunch of shares right before good news came out or sold a bunch of shares right before bad news came out (insider trading). That is not the case here.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 14, 2013, 05:28:03 PM
Honestly, i wish tytus dropped a 5000 wall at 0.1. I'd buy as much as I could.

Don't forget that it's the DIVIDENDS that are most appealing about this security.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on June 14, 2013, 05:57:14 PM
Ooops ... I was informed that You don't like the volatility limit we placed ... I will take it down immediately ... we work on the chip ... I will try to read the thread in the meantime and catch up


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on June 14, 2013, 06:17:10 PM
Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

This is a good idea. I will report the desire to sell shares at some price 48h before I place the order.
UGH!

yes yes ... sorry for the order ... but we did not sell anything (!!!) You can not accuse me of market manipulation anytime we post any order.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 14, 2013, 06:31:00 PM
Ok, I will not place any more sell orders before the mining starts but please don't let the price go up to some insane level. Of course there are always people who can not do the math and forget that the price has to go down to (close to) 0 at some time [this is different than in case of other (regular) stocks], but why batten on them.

This is a good idea. I will report the desire to sell shares at some price 48h before I place the order.
UGH!

yes yes ... sorry for the order ... but we did not sell anything (!!!) You can not accuse me of market manipulation anytime we post any order.

I'm not sure you understand the gravity of the situation, tytus. This is a serious breach of investors' trust and a massive blow to the confidence you desperately need. I can't see how investors can invest in stocks on pico anymore and knowing that when you personally feel they have been rewarded enough then you'll take away the rest.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on June 14, 2013, 06:31:43 PM
Ooops ... I was informed that You don't like the volatility limit we placed ... I will take it down immediately ... we work on the chip ... I will try to read the thread in the meantime and catch up

The only people that are worried about you selling shares don't really care about 100th. They are only worried about their speculative profit. For them, the less shares are sold the better, so they can have less competition when flipping theirs at a premium. The sky is their limit!

I very welcome your idea to sell your shares at a reasonable price so everyone that wants in, can get in.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on June 14, 2013, 06:36:06 PM
But how do I do this ? If the price is too low current shareholder will complain. If the price is too high I will be accused of pump and dump scheme :-) ... ok, no orders from us for now ... in few hours we will have chip results. Right now we are here: https://bittiraha.fi/content/matka-alkaa ...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on June 14, 2013, 07:10:09 PM
But how do I do this ? If the price is too low current shareholder will complain. If the price is too high I will be accused of pump and dump scheme :-) ... ok, no orders from us for now ... in few hours we will have chip results. Right now we are here: https://bittiraha.fi/content/matka-alkaa ...

Sell them at the price you believe is right. Unless picostocks is not an open market exchange but dictated by contrived hidden rules?

Anyone that believes in your project doesn't really care about what you sell for, since they'll know that the price will go up by the merit of the project, not by immediate speculative interest.

Let me see if I get this straight? You are basically busting your balls to get everything working as fast as possible for all shareholder's benefit, but aren't allowed to sell your own shares? Now that's irony.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on June 14, 2013, 10:25:44 PM
News about chips:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2476313#msg2476313

They don't blew up ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 12:05:30 AM
But how do I do this ? If the price is too low current shareholder will complain. If the price is too high I will be accused of pump and dump scheme :-) ... ok, no orders from us for now ... in few hours we will have chip results. Right now we are here: https://bittiraha.fi/content/matka-alkaa ...

Investors know that you don't control the prices, at least the somewhat serious ones do. Why would they complain to you that others choose to buy or sell at various prices?

"I had this fish soup today, and I'm not really satisfied with it. Fix it for me!"

You should have stayed out of the market, and to the extent that you were to enter it, that is a major, major event, much greater than some random update about power efficiency. If you, knowing more about the operation than anyone else in the world, say "You know, I don't think I'll ever get more from this investment than I can by selling out right now" you're sending a very wrong message to the market. If Mark Zuckerberg sold his FB shares now, he would send the same message, and you wouldn't hear other news for a week from any major news outlet.

In any regulated asset market, there are explicit rules for handling such events. Any insider selling or buying anything is breaking news and directly affects investors' evaluation of a stock. Regardless, your ability and right to control what people pay for shares ended during IPO.

You placed your bets then by selling a certain number of shares to the public. Those shares were effectively investors assuming the risk of failure in your project. At later dates, some of those investors have resold that risk to someone else, who again assumed risk on your behalf, expecting a reward in some fashion, usually proportional to the risk they are taking.

However, you've demonstrated clearly that either 1) you don't know how to operate an asset market or 2) you do not care for those who took risk on your behalf enough to allow them the reward they expected.

What makes this even worse is that you gave your word after the first time this happened that it wouldn't happen again. You broke that promise today. When will you break your next promise to the market? You have promised to give us a share of the profits, and you have promised to not directly manipulate the market. You've broken one promise already.

I'm truly sorry about this, but this kind of behavior from a publicly traded company is completely unacceptable, regardless or whether it is from malice or ignorance.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 12:11:34 AM
Sell them at the price you believe is right. Unless picostocks is not an open market exchange but dictated by contrived hidden rules?

Apparently, we don't know that. Apparently, there was, or became a rule, that if the chips worked, Picostocks would limit the uppoer bounds of the price.

Anyone that believes in your project doesn't really care about what you sell for, since they'll know that the price will go up by the merit of the project, not by immediate speculative interest.

Do you even understand what happened today? The price does _not_ go up anymore because tytus has decreed that 0.4 is the upper bound he will accept anyone selling or buying.

Let me see if I get this straight? You are basically busting your balls to get everything working as fast as possible for all shareholder's benefit, but aren't allowed to sell your own shares? Now that's irony.

This isn't a share, it is a bond. If these were shares, this would in any regulated market be a criminal offence and the whole project would now be at risk of shutting down or be put under external administration. Tytus would face jail time.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 12:17:54 AM
I'm sorry, I find it just disturbing: some entrepreneurs work and risk their time to build a 100th mine, they offer the public to profit of their work by investing only 0.04 BTC per 200 Mhash/s in their enterprise, the share price has subsequently almost tenfolded on nothing and what do you get as thank you: whining forum members when you sell a tiny bit of the shares you paid for yourselves.  :(

The problem is... Well, everything about this, really.

Tytus hasn't assumed any risk; he sold that risk to investors during IPO. People haven't bought in at 0.04, they have bought in at up to 0.3965, and guess what, if they're lucky, they'll get 0.009% profit on accepting the risk that everything goes down the drain and their entire investment is lost.

Here's a deal for you. I'll sell you a lottery ticket, which may be worth nothing, but it may be worth around what you pay for it, perhaps a bit more. You can pay me 3BTC for that lottery ticket. If it is a lucky number, you get around BTC3.1 back, but if it's not lucky, you get nothing.

Just let me know how may you want.

.b



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Kyune on June 15, 2013, 12:36:18 AM
In any regulated asset market, there are explicit rules for handling such events. Any insider selling or buying anything is breaking news and directly affects investors' evaluation of a stock. Regardless, your ability and right to control what people pay for shares ended during IPO.
Would you have been ok, or "more ok", then, with Tytus listing shares for sale had he done so anonymously, since it would not send the same insider signal, rather than announcing it so publicly and using a trading platform (picostocks) that appears to allow us all to track which specific accounts are trading the shares?  This is one of the interesting differences between picostocks and some of the other exchanges; other exchanges (e.g. btct.co, Bitfunder) would seem to make it easier for large shareholders and insiders to dump shares anonymously without tipping off the market that they are doing so, unless I am unaware of information leakage on those platforms.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 12:52:09 AM
Would you have been ok, or "more ok", then, with Tytus listing shares for sale had he done so anonymously, since it would not send the same insider signal, rather than announcing it so publicly and using a trading platform (picostocks) that appears to allow us all to track which specific accounts are trading the shares?  This is one of the interesting differences between picostocks and some of the other exchanges; other exchanges (e.g. btct.co, Bitfunder) would seem to make it easier for large shareholders and insiders to dump shares anonymously without tipping off the market that they are doing so, unless I am unaware of information leakage on those platforms.

Whether the sale is anonymous or not is just a matter of hiding the fact and doesn't make the act any less horrible. The news is still that tytus feels that 0.4 is the absolute maximum value anyone should pay. As someone who knows more about this operation than anyone, those are heavy words.

The fact that he currently holds so many shares that he can control the price only makes his ability to enforce his opinions on everyone else apparent.

What if he decides that nobody from here on is allowed to sell for more than 0.1? He can certainly enforce that, just like he enforced 0.21 and 0.23 a few weeks ago when investors were willing to pay 0.35 and maybe more. In other words, anyone buying this share can only sell at a price that tytus agrees to. If he decides you should have paid a lower price, well, you've lost, just like those that lost in May.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on June 15, 2013, 12:59:07 AM
What if the guy that holds 200,000 decides that he wants to sell at 0.1? ;D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 01:02:54 AM
What if the guy that holds 200,000 decides that he wants to sell at 0.1? ;D

That must be his or her choice, provided they are not insiders and does not break any rules. The latter is more of a joke at this point.
.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on June 15, 2013, 01:06:45 AM
What if the guy that holds 200,000 decides that he wants to sell at 0.1? ;D

That must be his or her choice, provided they are not insiders and does not break any rules. The latter is more of a joke at this point.
.b

Ok. ;D Anyway, thanks for explaining your reasoning.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 01:12:33 AM
I'll be blunt. At this point, I see now way for an extremely long time to rebuild the confidence of investors. If 100TH is still to be a viable asset, several things must happen.

1) 100TH is delisted from pico.
2) 100TH is listed on another exchange where tutys has no controlling interest
3) The shares controlled by tytus are put in escrow, only to be put on market after the escrow has ensured the rules set forward by tytus (and possibly the exchange) has been followed (for example 48 hour notice, declaration of price in advance, any exchange-specific regulations if any, etc)

Whether pico surives is actually not very relevant to 100TH, but I can't see an exchange operated by tytus being possible in the foresesable future.

I'll post an article in the coming days explaining my thoughts on this event and what happened in May. Tytus, I encourage you do contact me (DM) if you want to voice your side of it as part of that article. I will publish anything relevant and give you an early review of the content.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kakobrekla on June 15, 2013, 01:16:36 AM
+1 internet point for furuknap.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 15, 2013, 01:28:06 AM
Would you have been ok, or "more ok", then, with Tytus listing shares for sale had he done so anonymously, since it would not send the same insider signal, rather than announcing it so publicly and using a trading platform (picostocks) that appears to allow us all to track which specific accounts are trading the shares?  This is one of the interesting differences between picostocks and some of the other exchanges; other exchanges (e.g. btct.co, Bitfunder) would seem to make it easier for large shareholders and insiders to dump shares anonymously without tipping off the market that they are doing so, unless I am unaware of information leakage on those platforms.

Whether the sale is anonymous or not is just a matter of hiding the fact and doesn't make the act any less horrible. The news is still that tytus feels that 0.4 is the absolute maximum value anyone should pay. As someone who knows more about this operation than anyone, those are heavy words.

The fact that he currently holds so many shares that he can control the price only makes his ability to enforce his opinions on everyone else apparent.

What if he decides that nobody from here on is allowed to sell for more than 0.1? He can certainly enforce that, just like he enforced 0.21 and 0.23 a few weeks ago when investors were willing to pay 0.35 and maybe more. In other words, anyone buying this share can only sell at a price that tytus agrees to. If he decides you should have paid a lower price, well, you've lost, just like those that lost in May.

.b


If you noticed...his wall was eaten up. As you said...let the market dictate. If the market thinks .4 is worth it then they will buy. Are you trading based on voodoo technical analysis and "signs" or fundamentals. If not on fundamentals then you're gambling. Live with the gamble.


The problem is... Well, everything about this, really.

Tytus hasn't assumed any risk; he sold that risk to investors during IPO. People haven't bought in at 0.04, they have bought in at up to 0.3965, and guess what, if they're lucky, they'll get 0.009% profit on accepting the risk that everything goes down the drain and their entire investment is lost.

Here's a deal for you. I'll sell you a lottery ticket, which may be worth nothing, but it may be worth around what you pay for it, perhaps a bit more. You can pay me 3BTC for that lottery ticket. If it is a lucky number, you get around BTC3.1 back, but if it's not lucky, you get nothing.

Just let me know how may you want.

.b


The IPO is exactly where Tytus (attempted) to sell his risk...but if you noticed, a very small percentage of total shares went to the community at large. People simply didn't trust it. He tried to sell at 0.04 and few people bought.

Serious question...if tytus put a block of 10000 shares are at the IPO price on the market today, would you be happy or sad? My answer is...I would be ELATED and I've bought a lot of shares above the IPO price.

Another question: when do you think tytus is entitled to sell? how much would you allow him to sell? I don't know the exact numbers, but it seems like there is less than 10% of total shares in the hands of non-insiders. If you seriously believed this security was worth over 0.4, you should have absolutely NO problem with him dropping a wall at 0.4 because the market would see value in purchasing at 0.4. Perhaps you were counting on the low liquidity to make a profit during "panic buying"...again that is a gamble you took. IMO, if you truly believe the security has value over 0.4 then tytus is doing you a favor by increasing liquidity.


Like you said...this is a BOND. The original purpose of this security was to allow people to purchase hashing power. In your analysis, you stated this would not be like AM because fundamentally they are two different types of securities. Logically there should be a cap on the price of this. If the market thinks it's higher than 0.4 that wall would have disappeared with time.

FYI, a very similar thing happened with the ASICMINER-PT. The person who runs the PT put up a wall @ 2.1/2.4 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210933.0 ...much lower than the market price at the time.The market ATE  IT UP because they saw value.




Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 03:06:26 AM
If you noticed...his wall was eaten up. As you said...let the market dictate. If the market thinks .4 is worth it then they will buy. Are you trading based on voodoo technical analysis and "signs" or fundamentals. If not on fundamentals then you're gambling. Live with the gamble.

If you're talking about today's event, he pulled the wall before it was hit. If you're talking about the walls in May, he only stopped adding more once I (and others) yelled at him for it, which prompted the promise of 'never again!' that was broken today.

The IPO is exactly where Tytus (attempted) to sell his risk...but if you noticed, a very small percentage of total shares went to the community at large. People simply didn't trust it. He tried to sell at 0.04 and few people bought.

Exactly. The market did not at the time want to assume the risk for such a price, so they didn't. This is a healthy market in action.

Serious question...if tytus put a block of 10000 shares are at the IPO price on the market today, would you be happy or sad? My answer is...I would be ELATED and I've bought a lot of shares above the IPO price.

Sure, and people know that there's no point in buying anything above that price because tytus may just as well throw more bonds on the market at that price.

However, if tutys the day after told you that 'Sorry, we couldn't get the chips to work, your bonds are now worthless' would you be equally elated? When that is a real risk that you are assuming, you want some kind of reward if that risk turns out to work in your favor.

Again, look at my proposal. you can buy a bond/ticket from me for 3BTC. It may turn into 3.1 or even 3.5 if the cows don't come home at all, but it may also turn into zero. How many do you want?

I'm guessing your lack of "Wow, give me 100!" is less due to your lack of funds and more because you realize that assuming the risk of losing everything is not worth the potential upside of just 0.1 or 0.5.

Now, why would you be OK with this scenario if the numbers were slightly different, say 0.30 and 0.31 and 0.35 instead? Because that's exactly what you're saying; you assume all the risk for minute potential reward but only because in the case of 100TH we're talking about slightly different numbers. The upside has been capped today by tytus.


Another question: when do you think tytus is entitled to sell? how much would you allow him to sell? I don't know the exact numbers, but it seems like there is less than 10% of total shares in the hands of non-insiders. If you seriously believed this security was worth over 0.4, you should have absolutely NO problem with him dropping a wall at 0.4 because the market would see value in purchasing at 0.4. Perhaps you were counting on the low liquidity to make a profit during "panic buying"...again that is a gamble you took. IMO, if you truly believe the security has value over 0.4 then tytus is doing you a favor by increasing liquidity.

I'm not sure tutys should be entitled to sell at all, but that's up to the market to decide after he has made a proper announcement. The market will either say "wow, he's stupid and doesn't know half the things I do" or they will say "wow, if he's bailing, knowing what he does, then maybe this isn't such a good idea after all" or anything in between.

In fact, tutys has given power of decision over to the market, but now he's effectively killed that market with his actions by saying '"children, please, you can't play with the toys I gave you after all"

Like you said...this is a BOND. The original purpose of this security was to allow people to purchase hashing power. In your analysis, you stated this would not be like AM because fundamentally they are two different types of securities. Logically there should be a cap on the price of this. If the market thinks it's higher than 0.4 that wall would have disappeared with time.

FYI, a very similar thing happened with the ASICMINER-PT. The person who runs the PT put up a wall @ 2.1/2.4 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=210933.0 ...much lower than the market price at the time.The market ATE  IT UP because they saw value.

If you don't see the difference between a PT operator selling off the assets of a completely different fund and this then you have now idea what you're talking about.

Let me ask you this; what would you say if friedcat came out tomorrow and said "Sorry, we really don't have confidence that AM will ever make much more than 1BTC so here are 10,000 shares at 1BTC put on the market". How do you think investors now buying at 3BTC would think? Would that be a reasonable and defendable action because, you know, it's his shares and stuff?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 15, 2013, 04:16:20 AM

If you're talking about today's event, he pulled the wall before it was hit. If you're talking about the walls in May, he only stopped adding more once I (and others) yelled at him for it, which prompted the promise of 'never again!' that was broken today.

Not talking about today's wall. I was talking about the ~0.2 walls that were bought up quite quickly. Yes, he did stop after people on the forum complained.

Serious question...if tytus put a block of 10000 shares are at the IPO price on the market today, would you be happy or sad? My answer is...I would be ELATED and I've bought a lot of shares above the IPO price.

Sure, and people know that there's no point in buying anything above that price because tytus may just as well throw more bonds on the market at that price.

However, if tutys the day after told you that 'Sorry, we couldn't get the chips to work, your bonds are now worthless' would you be equally elated? When that is a real risk that you are assuming, you want some kind of reward if that risk turns out to work in your favor.

Again, look at my proposal. you can buy a bond/ticket from me for 3BTC. It may turn into 3.1 or even 3.5 if the cows don't come home at all, but it may also turn into zero. How many do you want?

I'm guessing your lack of "Wow, give me 100!" is less due to your lack of funds and more because you realize that assuming the risk of losing everything is not worth the potential upside of just 0.1 or 0.5.

Now, why would you be OK with this scenario if the numbers were slightly different, say 0.30 and 0.31 and 0.35 instead? Because that's exactly what you're saying; you assume all the risk for minute potential reward but only because in the case of 100TH we're talking about slightly different numbers. The upside has been capped today by tytus.

The primary reward is the dividend. I'm buying a share of hosted mining. NOT speculation that the value of my shares will go up.


Let me ask you this; what would you say if friedcat came out tomorrow and said "Sorry, we really don't have confidence that AM will ever make much more than 1BTC so here are 10,000 shares at 1BTC put on the market". How do you think investors now buying at 3BTC would think? Would that be a reasonable and defendable action because, you know, it's his shares and stuff?

.b


That is not what tytus did, right? In fact, he posted some positive news (in his mind). What would be the market's reaction if friedcat announced he was going to sell any shares? Regardless of his motivations. If friedcat said he wanted to cash out some shares for liquidity but the company was still sound, would you take him at his word or would you speculate that the company is going down? Some people would take him at his word, some would panic. I'm not saying it'd be an easy decision to pick a side in that case, but putting on a tin-foil hat will either prove foolish or genius...most people don't have a crystal ball.

So tytus put 5000 shares for sale at 0.4 (a bit above the lowest ask -- above the all time high). If you think shares are worth more than 0.4 then he did you a favor because now you can buy more. If they are worth less than 0.4 shares...well first people need to buy through the lower asks then start buying into his wall. As you said the wall could be an indication that tytus feels this is a ceiling, so buyers should be wary...anyone that buys at these levels should be acutely aware of the risk they are taking (because of the wall).

I believe you're most dismayed at the fact that tytus put a potential cap on share price and he is limiting your upside in terms of share price. Let me ask you this. What are you buying in this security? From the business plan, it was clear to me that I was buying hashing power. This is as if I was buying hosted Avalons or BFL machines. The primary reason for buying shares is to earn income from the hashing power. A secondary side-effect of listing shares on an exchange is that others would be able to bid on my purchased hashing power. I understand that when you bought into this security, one of your primary variables was share price and that is a valid variable to include. However, the primary variable should have been mining income.

If you read "Simplified Exit" part of the business plan, it states that Picostocks makes it easier for people to disinvest from mining technology. The section also states that shares prices will "likely" increase around the time of deployment, but I interpret the document as meaning...prices of your shares might or might not increase. The document also states that value of the shares will quickly diminish over time. Again, this information indicates to me that the primary value of the shares should be the dividends rather than banking on an increase in share price.

I understand you're not pleased with a (perceived) cap on share price, but IMO you were using the wrong variable to calculate returns.




Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: silvermario on June 15, 2013, 08:23:21 AM
I'll be blunt. At this point, I see now way for an extremely long time to rebuild the confidence of investors furuknap. If 100TH is still to be a viable asset, several things must happen.

[some absurd demands]

FTFY


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on June 15, 2013, 09:00:27 AM
100TH IS GONNA SKYROCKET :D LOLOLOL


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 11:28:51 AM

If you're talking about today's event, he pulled the wall before it was hit. If you're talking about the walls in May, he only stopped adding more once I (and others) yelled at him for it, which prompted the promise of 'never again!' that was broken today.

Not talking about today's wall. I was talking about the ~0.2 walls that were bought up quite quickly. Yes, he did stop after people on the forum complained.

So you are talking about market manipulation.

The primary reward is the dividend. I'm buying a share of hosted mining. NOT speculation that the value of my shares will go up.

Sorry to say, but you are not. If you think that's what you're buying, you may be in for a surprise.

You are buying a chance for a share of hosted mining. That chance carries risk of not getting anything, just like my proposal.

This isn't unique for this PMB; it is common to all PMBs and assets. Even US Treasuries carries a slim chance of default. There's always risk with assets; the people that bought into this at 0.04 did not buy shares of hosted mining, they bought a chance that they might get a share of hosted mining, but with huge risks.

If fact, here's the flip side of the challenge; would you sell me your shares at 0.04 again? Because if you think you're only buying shares of mining and do not want any upside in terms of price increase, then that must be a fair price, right?

Let me ask you this; what would you say if friedcat came out tomorrow and said "Sorry, we really don't have confidence that AM will ever make much more than 1BTC so here are 10,000 shares at 1BTC put on the market". How do you think investors now buying at 3BTC would think? Would that be a reasonable and defendable action because, you know, it's his shares and stuff?

That is not what tytus did, right?

It was. It is what he did today and it was what he did in May. Sure, he did so right after good news, which is essentially the same as saying "I forbid you to feel too optimistic about this news. I decide how optimistic you should be"

Did he put up a buy wall when the chips were delayed? Or when Bitfury failed in his bet yesterday? Those were negative news and he did not attempt to control people's emotions then. Why are you OK when he does so and only he is benefiting from the action?

I believe you're most dismayed at the fact that tytus put a potential cap on share price and he is limiting your upside in terms of share price.

There might be a speck of relevance to your argument if I even had any shares. However, I sold before yesterday so the cap wouldn't have affected me in any case. In fact, if he put up a sell wall at 0.1, I would benefit.

So, I'll advance your next question; what possible motivation could I have, seeing that I don't get an ounce of benefit from the wall going away but would in fact get a benefit if it was there? How could I possibly be arguing for the thing that would not give me benefit but would argue against that which would bring me benefits?

Could it be, I don't know, that there is no personal motivation behind my attacks on this behavior and that this is genuinely an attack on the action for no other reason than that this is really, really, really, really, really bad for investors and thus bad for 100TH, thus bad for a good idea (picostocks), and thus bad for Bitcoin? Could it be that, unlike what you seem to think, there are people in the world that looks beyond immediate financial rewards and, oh god no, would actually like to see the whole community grow, even when it goes against their immediate personal benefit?

Nah, that would mean I was right all along, and that would also mean you're arguments are based on a false assumption, and we can't have that, can we?

I understand you're not pleased with a (perceived) cap on share price, but IMO you were using the wrong variable to calculate returns.

You have no idea what I used to calculate anything for my investments.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on June 15, 2013, 12:04:20 PM
tytus' 0.2 wall in may was too sudden, too soon, i give you that. share prices where going up to about 0.26 and all of a sudden tytus' cut the market off. that was a wrong thing to do, he apologized, said he would give a heads up in the future and we moved on.

tytus' 0.4 wall was announced and came up with prices at what, 0.36? that's what, 11% assuming you bought in at the highest price back then? not bad for a single day of speculating.

either way, comparing AM to 100TH is comparing apples to oranges. AM is still growing and selling hardware, while a 100TH will always just stay a 200MH mining bond that hopefully comes to fruition.

i think you were just trying to pull the market up up up and are pissed that someone with a greater stake in the shares intervened.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 12:06:32 PM
i think you were just trying to pull the market up up up and are pissed that someone with a greater stake in the shares intervened.

Are you incapable of reading or is it just that you project your own motivations on everyone else and refuse to comprehend that there may be motivations that conflict with your desires?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on June 15, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
There isn't any clear cut, one-sided, point of view to this. Everyone that bought 100TH PMB's knew they weren't buying them in a regulated exchange.

If anyone wins at poker in an underground casino they also know there is a chance to be ripped clean on the way out by the bouncer.

The only guiding principle that remains is to assess if the issuer was doing what he did with a good intent or a bad intent.

My personal answer is that he did it with good intent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should proceed accordingly. There is no "one truth".


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 15, 2013, 12:33:42 PM
My personal answer is that he did it with good intent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should proceed accordingly. There is no "one truth".

So fucking up the market is OK as long as one person thought it was a good idea? Great.

Everyone, buy my lottery tickets! Oh, and I'll donate a part to charity, because if my intentions are good, everything is OK.

.b

EDIT: BTW, most of the civilized world has strict regulations to prevent this kind of event. I know, I know, we're crypto anarchists and all that cool shit, but did anyone stop for a moment and think that there may be a good idea behind those regulations too and not the the man sticking it to us all?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on June 15, 2013, 12:51:46 PM
@furuknap: alright, i don't know you and shouldn't make assumptions about your personal motives. sorry about that.

it's just that IMO the 100TH shares are in danger of heading towards unsustainable levels because of too many people doing too little research. unsustainable because other options offer the same potential value for the same risk (other than there being other intermediaries) for a fraction of the price. it's like offering TAT.ASICMINER for half the price of a full Asicminer share because your buyer doesn't know the market.

now i don't want a market that gets controlled by major forces either. i just don't think the whole buy low sell sky high attitude that we see much too often is going to do us any good.


disclosure: i own a few shares, but not many. i bought in mainly for the mining opportunity as a hedge against other mining projects and not for the resale of shares. my stakes are set, i don't care for the price to go either way, i just hope for the project to succeed in time.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vbs on June 15, 2013, 01:02:35 PM
My personal answer is that he did it with good intent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should proceed accordingly. There is no "one truth".

So fucking up the market is OK as long as one person thought it was a good idea? Great.

Everyone, buy my lottery tickets! Oh, and I'll donate a part to charity, because if my intentions are good, everything is OK.

.b

EDIT: BTW, most of the civilized world has strict regulations to prevent this kind of event. I know, I know, we're crypto anarchists and all that cool shit, but did anyone stop for a moment and think that there may be a good idea behind those regulations too and not the the man sticking it to us all?

Saying the market is "fucked" is still your personal opinion. You are entitled to it ofc, but not everyone must agree to it.

I also think there are pretty good and valid reasons for several of the regulations to prevent this and other kind of events. But they must be explicit and not implicit.

Why don't you make an article about the "basic" explicit regulations that bitcoin exchanges/asset issuers should comply? That would certainly be a good starting point for further debate on this whole issue (that is not limited to 100TH only).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Luckybit on June 15, 2013, 02:11:30 PM

If you're talking about today's event, he pulled the wall before it was hit. If you're talking about the walls in May, he only stopped adding more once I (and others) yelled at him for it, which prompted the promise of 'never again!' that was broken today.

Not talking about today's wall. I was talking about the ~0.2 walls that were bought up quite quickly. Yes, he did stop after people on the forum complained.

Serious question...if tytus put a block of 10000 shares are at the IPO price on the market today, would you be happy or sad? My answer is...I would be ELATED and I've bought a lot of shares above the IPO price.

Sure, and people know that there's no point in buying anything above that price because tytus may just as well throw more bonds on the market at that price.

However, if tutys the day after told you that 'Sorry, we couldn't get the chips to work, your bonds are now worthless' would you be equally elated? When that is a real risk that you are assuming, you want some kind of reward if that risk turns out to work in your favor.

Again, look at my proposal. you can buy a bond/ticket from me for 3BTC. It may turn into 3.1 or even 3.5 if the cows don't come home at all, but it may also turn into zero. How many do you want?

I'm guessing your lack of "Wow, give me 100!" is less due to your lack of funds and more because you realize that assuming the risk of losing everything is not worth the potential upside of just 0.1 or 0.5.

Now, why would you be OK with this scenario if the numbers were slightly different, say 0.30 and 0.31 and 0.35 instead? Because that's exactly what you're saying; you assume all the risk for minute potential reward but only because in the case of 100TH we're talking about slightly different numbers. The upside has been capped today by tytus.

The primary reward is the dividend. I'm buying a share of hosted mining. NOT speculation that the value of my shares will go up.


Let me ask you this; what would you say if friedcat came out tomorrow and said "Sorry, we really don't have confidence that AM will ever make much more than 1BTC so here are 10,000 shares at 1BTC put on the market". How do you think investors now buying at 3BTC would think? Would that be a reasonable and defendable action because, you know, it's his shares and stuff?

.b


That is not what tytus did, right? In fact, he posted some positive news (in his mind). What would be the market's reaction if friedcat announced he was going to sell any shares? Regardless of his motivations. If friedcat said he wanted to cash out some shares for liquidity but the company was still sound, would you take him at his word or would you speculate that the company is going down? Some people would take him at his word, some would panic. I'm not saying it'd be an easy decision to pick a side in that case, but putting on a tin-foil hat will either prove foolish or genius...most people don't have a crystal ball.

So tytus put 5000 shares for sale at 0.4 (a bit above the lowest ask -- above the all time high). If you think shares are worth more than 0.4 then he did you a favor because now you can buy more. If they are worth less than 0.4 shares...well first people need to buy through the lower asks then start buying into his wall. As you said the wall could be an indication that tytus feels this is a ceiling, so buyers should be wary...anyone that buys at these levels should be acutely aware of the risk they are taking (because of the wall).

I believe you're most dismayed at the fact that tytus put a potential cap on share price and he is limiting your upside in terms of share price. Let me ask you this. What are you buying in this security? From the business plan, it was clear to me that I was buying hashing power. This is as if I was buying hosted Avalons or BFL machines. The primary reason for buying shares is to earn income from the hashing power. A secondary side-effect of listing shares on an exchange is that others would be able to bid on my purchased hashing power. I understand that when you bought into this security, one of your primary variables was share price and that is a valid variable to include. However, the primary variable should have been mining income.

If you read "Simplified Exit" part of the business plan, it states that Picostocks makes it easier for people to disinvest from mining technology. The section also states that shares prices will "likely" increase around the time of deployment, but I interpret the document as meaning...prices of your shares might or might not increase. The document also states that value of the shares will quickly diminish over time. Again, this information indicates to me that the primary value of the shares should be the dividends rather than banking on an increase in share price.

I understand you're not pleased with a (perceived) cap on share price, but IMO you were using the wrong variable to calculate returns.




So let me get this right, they are offering just over 2 Ghash/s for just over $400?

In my opinion it's not worth the expense at that price. We should get more like 6 Ghash/s.

100TH is a bubble. Buyers beware.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Luckybit on June 15, 2013, 02:19:48 PM
i think the 0.4 BTC ask wall is a fair move. there's already more than enough unfounded speculation going on and an ask wall at 0.4BTC gives still enough headroom for profit if you're only in it to speculate with shares.

Either you have no idea how a stock market works or you're just trying to further manipulate the market. This isn't a fair move, it is a catastrophe.

I'm happy I got a good rise from my 'investment' but when I'm held back in the potential reward I can get in an open market simply because the issuer doesn't think the market knows what it's doing and want to control that, I can't be on board anymore. I'm taking my profits and walking out.

I really can't see why people would want to invest more risk into this asset as it's clear that their reward for doing so will be taken away by the exchange.

.b

It's a catastrophe if you are planning to pump and dump. For long term holders who want to buy hash rate it's better.

I wont be touching this bond. I can see now it's only going to be dumped once you and others get to a certain amount of profit. Good for speculators but for people who want dividends stick with ASICminer.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bulltrap on June 15, 2013, 03:11:06 PM
i think the 0.4 BTC ask wall is a fair move. there's already more than enough unfounded speculation going on and an ask wall at 0.4BTC gives still enough headroom for profit if you're only in it to speculate with shares.

Either you have no idea how a stock market works or you're just trying to further manipulate the market. This isn't a fair move, it is a catastrophe.

I'm happy I got a good rise from my 'investment' but when I'm held back in the potential reward I can get in an open market simply because the issuer doesn't think the market knows what it's doing and want to control that, I can't be on board anymore. I'm taking my profits and walking out.

I really can't see why people would want to invest more risk into this asset as it's clear that their reward for doing so will be taken away by the exchange.

.b

It's a catastrophe if you are planning to pump and dump. For long term holders who want to buy hash rate it's better.

I wont be touching this bond. I can see now it's only going to be dumped once you and others get to a certain amount of profit. Good for speculators but for people who want dividends stick with ASICminer.
How do you think the asicminer share value will develop when competitors start selling miners with 65nm techonology? I think that's going to affect their hardware sales. Asicminer currently has around 30Thash deployed which equates to 75Mhash per share and one share costs ~3BTC. On 100Thash you are getting 200Mhash from a 0.4BTC share. For asicminer to deploy 100Thash it will require a lot more resources because the power consumption of their chips is over 10 times more than the bitfury chip.

If 100Thash will be deployed on the next month the dividend for the first month will likely be near 0.1BTC per share. Based on that 0.4BTC per share price doesn't seem really high to me.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: circuitry on June 15, 2013, 03:31:32 PM

So let me get this right, they are offering just over 2 Ghash/s for just over $400?

In my opinion it's not worth the expense at that price. We should get more like 6 Ghash/s.

100TH is a bubble. Buyers beware.

People are paying up to $300 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Bitcoin-Block-Erupter-USB-ASIC-miner-ASICminer-not-BFL-or-Avalon-In-Stock-/321143868710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac5aa8d26) for a 0.3 Ghash/s Block Erupter USB, so don't be surprised if 100TH shares reach 2x or even 3x their current price.

Breaking even will be heavily dependent on 1) how soon 100TH comes online and 2) the BTCUSD exchange rate during the first six months after that.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on June 15, 2013, 05:35:13 PM
I'll be blunt. At this point, I see now way for an extremely long time to rebuild the confidence of investors. If 100TH is still to be a viable asset, several things must happen.

1) 100TH is delisted from pico.
2) 100TH is listed on another exchange where tutys has no controlling interest
3) The shares controlled by tytus are put in escrow, only to be put on market after the escrow has ensured the rules set forward by tytus (and possibly the exchange) has been followed (for example 48 hour notice, declaration of price in advance, any exchange-specific regulations if any, etc)

Whether pico surives is actually not very relevant to 100TH, but I can't see an exchange operated by tytus being possible in the foresesable future.

I'll post an article in the coming days explaining my thoughts on this event and what happened in May. Tytus, I encourage you do contact me (DM) if you want to voice your side of it as part of that article. I will publish anything relevant and give you an early review of the content.

.b

Far as I can see, you're here to scam. The reasons are quite simply:

1. You're nobody, I couldn't tell you from Adam. Tytus, what's that. Wot? The cost to make you, entirely, is about fiddy cent. (Sure, you may or may not be related to Leszek Rychlewski, who'd be a moderately cited biology researcher. On the strength of your presentation that connection is not worth investigating.)

2. You came up with what you call an exchange, for no apparent reason. It doesn't exchange anything. The worthless assurances of some Marshall Islands shell "repaying" anyone for anything are of no value and no interest.

3. You came up with a scam for that exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133147.msg1435278#msg1435278), specifically, an imaginary set of 1000 boards that Tom was selling you (in spite of bASIC not making that many boards to begin with and you not being anywhere on the lists of people that ordered).

I did point out to you then you're lying through your teeth, and your response was that *I* should check up on your claims. No receipts, no proof of anything. You could be Inaba if we didn't already have an idiot by that name around.

Conveniently enough for you Tom blew up, and so you're roughly in the situation of the various scammers operating out of GLBSE: they get to pretend like it was all Nefario's fault. Oh, yes, I forgot, you lost a million dollars with the bASIC blow-up, how fortunate for us that you're so cavalier about that disaster, picked yourself up and are back for more. Innit easy to get through due diligence for imaginary fortunes and imaginary investments? How strange that Tom never had half that much money to refund in the first place.

4. You came up with a slightly larger piece of bs. Who is bitfury? Oh, wait, nevermind, "BitFury Group facilitating development of BitCoin-related software, hardware and services". Great. They made a splash last summer with their insane "licensing" deal. Meanwhile they draw 7MW per Gh or something like that, and nobody (including the manufacturer) even knows what the units cost. Let alone that there were a grand total of two units built overall, during the entire 10 month lifetime of the project. As a bonus, MegaBigPower.com is some bs site registered two weeks ago, in no position to "operate" anything whatsoever. To make it perfectly clear: 100 TH made out of bitfuries is much like an aircraft carrier made out of old refurbished Ford Model Ts: not seaworthy.

5. If you think that is a business plan you have absolutely never either seen one or done business.

I get that you think Bitcoiners are idiots, and most are. The important point is that those who are have no BTC, and those who still have BTC aren't idiots. Your deluded notions that anyone will actually put as much as fifty dollars into this patent nonsense is about as amusing as the idiocy coming from the bitfinex corner. I get that you think you can buddy-buddy and "act professional" and it'll wash like it has in the past. You're wrong. It won't.

To quote my ever-watchful boss (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/preemptive-strike-to-have-on-hand-for-when-butterfly-labs-gets-hauled-off-to-jail-in-corpore/),

Quote
Pack it and move. This is your only warning, and quite frankly I have no ideea why warnings are even necessary. Bitcoin is not for idiots. That means you.

Aww.

Serious question...if tytus put a block of 10000 shares are at the IPO price on the market today, would you be happy or sad? My answer is...I would be ELATED and I've bought a lot of shares above the IPO price.

I'm glad to hear you're one of those problems that's in the process of sorting itself out.

Except if in fact you're lying, goat style.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: joris on June 15, 2013, 09:55:39 PM
Buying shares (no bond, there's no interest nor debt) in a potential mining asset = buying lottery tickets without a prize fund. The only garantuee we have, is that the invested money will be spent out of our control. And I don't see the joy in your lottery, furuknap: I expect too much of your particular rules to obey.

In general, only selling of shares on which capital goes to the underlying venture has use for a venture, to raise productive capital.

The aftermarket and the (subsequent) gamblers on these shares, who think they are king, don't provide any use to the venture. It's just distraction.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: JohnSy on June 16, 2013, 01:55:12 AM
After failed IPO* of the 72TH-mine (due to default of the manufacturer) and first delivery of ASIC products by Avalon we decided to float an asset based on alternative ASIC development project conducted in close collaboration with BitFury.org. The new mine (100TH-mine) will have much better profitability than the previous project.

Summary:when will it ship

Strong aspects:
-   low investment costs: only $5 / 1GH/s (4 times cheaper than competing products)
-   low maintenance costs due to low power dissipation of the chip: approximately 0.2-0.3 Watt / 1GH/s (4-20 time better than competition)
-   4 year manufacturer warranty
Weak aspects:
-   chip not tested yet, tape out in 1 month (full mask, engineering run), final simulation results will be posted in 2 weeks
-   deployment of 100TH-mine in July 2013

Details:

The proposed project is a 100 terahash/s Bitcoin mine. The hashing hardware will consist of mining boards developed in collaboration with BitFury. Today’s network hashing power is 4 times lower than 100TH/s but this situation will change dramatically in the next 4 months before the deployment of the hardware. The hardware will be located in the datacenter operated by MegaBigPower.com. The monthly maintenance and management costs will be kept at the 5k USD level. Hardware will be produced and assembled in June 2013. Mining will start at the data center on 2012-07-01. Estimations based on a predicted realistic continuous monthly network hashrate increase of 100TH/s (starting from 0TH/s on 2013-01-01) and BTC exchange rate of 17 USD point to a return of investment of 500k USD in 3 months after mining starts, i.e. in September 2013. Total income over the next 4 years after subtraction of the initial investment costs of 500k USD amounts to 2.7M USD. The suggested valuation of the venture is 500k USD (5 USD per 1GH/s, 1 USD per share), which is currently much below the retail purchase price of the hardware from competing suppliers. The venture will be legally operated as a PicoStocks project. No separate legal entity will be created.

The main risk of the project is the delay of the installation of the mining equipment. PicoStocks, legally responsible for the project, will reimburse investors if an income of 1M USD (10 USD per 1GH/s, 2 USD per share) will not be achieved by the mine until end of 2016 due to delayed installation.

The venture has 750 000 shares. If more than 500 000 shares will be ordered the hashing power will be increased proportionally above the expected 100TH/s to 150TH/s if all shares are sold. Each share is valued at 1 USD (recommended price) and corresponds to 0.2 GH/s. Shares that will not be ordered will be erased and a smaller mine will be deployed. The management costs will be decreased proportionally. The minimum price is 0.04 BTC which is below the expected price of 1 USD per share so the minimum valuation of the project is 400k USD for 100TH/s at an USD/BTC exchange rate of ca. 20 (today). The suggested price per share is 0.05 BTC, which corresponds to 1 USD per share and a valuation of the asset at 500k USD for 100TH/s. We offer a minimum price of 0.04BTC only because we worry that the exchange rate can rise in the coming 2 weeks before the IPO will be closed (in 2 weeks from now).

Business plan: http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19

Asset: http://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on June 16, 2013, 02:09:30 PM
First chips are under test:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2489891#msg2489891
http://imgur.com/fD435C9
https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on June 16, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
Ok. got chips. they're nice! first I'll start with measurements of board...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: hammurabi on June 16, 2013, 11:25:43 PM
To chime in again:




3) not trying to manipulate the market here. just trying to talk some sense into people, all this fingerlicking greed isn't going to lead us anywhere.

^^ This
It wasn't furuknap who posted such nonsense, it was his greed.
He probably made 100% ROI in a week or two and he wanted to make 200%.
Tytus how could you?? How could you sell stocks you bought earlier yourself at IPO price?


+1
Yeah, he got already crowd-kicked from ASICminer thread for that recently.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 17, 2013, 02:03:47 AM
Yeah, he got already crowd-kicked from ASICminer thread for that recently.

You go ahead and believe that's what happened, just like you'll go ahead and think this is OK.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on June 17, 2013, 03:06:30 PM
Looks like more and more parts of the chip works!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2499572#msg2499572
Power efficiency is amazing, if it will confirms it will be 10 times better than competition (Avalon, ASICMINER)!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 18, 2013, 07:41:51 PM
almost...there....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2512453#msg2512453
:-) 5 times check .... and almost 99.9% of matches )))) So we can say that the kernel is exactly what you need them to be considered :-) It remains now work load and view error rate


was dicey for a little bit with unexpected bit sequences...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: carnitastaco on June 18, 2013, 11:39:24 PM
Oh man, I was totally ready to link to this MPOE post and then MPOE did it himself :(

Furuknap-drama queen much?

200 MH/share? thats equivalent to 40 shares of DMS.Mining @ 5MH/share.  40 shares of DMS.Mining will run you about .76 right now, but you start getting dividends TOMORROW, without the risk of complete failure, without the risk of people who have never done it before building out a datacenter, without the risk of natural disaster, without paying electricity, rent, or any other costs, and with no risk of computer/internet downtime.

How high above .4 were you really expecting?  There isn't ALWAYS another sucker to sell to....

lol @ this whole conversation


I'll be blunt. At this point, I see now way for an extremely long time to rebuild the confidence of investors. If 100TH is still to be a viable asset, several things must happen.

1) 100TH is delisted from pico.
2) 100TH is listed on another exchange where tutys has no controlling interest
3) The shares controlled by tytus are put in escrow, only to be put on market after the escrow has ensured the rules set forward by tytus (and possibly the exchange) has been followed (for example 48 hour notice, declaration of price in advance, any exchange-specific regulations if any, etc)

Whether pico surives is actually not very relevant to 100TH, but I can't see an exchange operated by tytus being possible in the foresesable future.

I'll post an article in the coming days explaining my thoughts on this event and what happened in May. Tytus, I encourage you do contact me (DM) if you want to voice your side of it as part of that article. I will publish anything relevant and give you an early review of the content.

.b

Far as I can see, you're here to scam. The reasons are quite simply:

1. You're nobody, I couldn't tell you from Adam. Tytus, what's that. Wot? The cost to make you, entirely, is about fiddy cent. (Sure, you may or may not be related to Leszek Rychlewski, who'd be a moderately cited biology researcher. On the strength of your presentation that connection is not worth investigating.)

2. You came up with what you call an exchange, for no apparent reason. It doesn't exchange anything. The worthless assurances of some Marshall Islands shell "repaying" anyone for anything are of no value and no interest.

3. You came up with a scam for that exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133147.msg1435278#msg1435278), specifically, an imaginary set of 1000 boards that Tom was selling you (in spite of bASIC not making that many boards to begin with and you not being anywhere on the lists of people that ordered).

I did point out to you then you're lying through your teeth, and your response was that *I* should check up on your claims. No receipts, no proof of anything. You could be Inaba if we didn't already have an idiot by that name around.

Conveniently enough for you Tom blew up, and so you're roughly in the situation of the various scammers operating out of GLBSE: they get to pretend like it was all Nefario's fault. Oh, yes, I forgot, you lost a million dollars with the bASIC blow-up, how fortunate for us that you're so cavalier about that disaster, picked yourself up and are back for more. Innit easy to get through due diligence for imaginary fortunes and imaginary investments? How strange that Tom never had half that much money to refund in the first place.

4. You came up with a slightly larger piece of bs. Who is bitfury? Oh, wait, nevermind, "BitFury Group facilitating development of BitCoin-related software, hardware and services". Great. They made a splash last summer with their insane "licensing" deal. Meanwhile they draw 7MW per Gh or something like that, and nobody (including the manufacturer) even knows what the units cost. Let alone that there were a grand total of two units built overall, during the entire 10 month lifetime of the project. As a bonus, MegaBigPower.com is some bs site registered two weeks ago, in no position to "operate" anything whatsoever. To make it perfectly clear: 100 TH made out of bitfuries is much like an aircraft carrier made out of old refurbished Ford Model Ts: not seaworthy.

5. If you think that is a business plan you have absolutely never either seen one or done business.

I get that you think Bitcoiners are idiots, and most are. The important point is that those who are have no BTC, and those who still have BTC aren't idiots. Your deluded notions that anyone will actually put as much as fifty dollars into this patent nonsense is about as amusing as the idiocy coming from the bitfinex corner. I get that you think you can buddy-buddy and "act professional" and it'll wash like it has in the past. You're wrong. It won't.

To quote my ever-watchful boss (http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/preemptive-strike-to-have-on-hand-for-when-butterfly-labs-gets-hauled-off-to-jail-in-corpore/),

Quote
Pack it and move. This is your only warning, and quite frankly I have no ideea why warnings are even necessary. Bitcoin is not for idiots. That means you.

Aww.

Serious question...if tytus put a block of 10000 shares are at the IPO price on the market today, would you be happy or sad? My answer is...I would be ELATED and I've bought a lot of shares above the IPO price.

I'm glad to hear you're one of those problems that's in the process of sorting itself out.

Except if in fact you're lying, goat style.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 19, 2013, 12:06:52 AM
How high above .4 were you really expecting?  There isn't ALWAYS another sucker to sell to....

Uhm... Which part of this conversation did you not understand? I don't expect it to go anywhere, up or down. I expect the market to decide. I don't expect tytus to decide.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on June 19, 2013, 12:32:53 AM
How high above .4 were you really expecting?  There isn't ALWAYS another sucker to sell to....

Uhm... Which part of this conversation did you not understand? I don't expect it to go anywhere, up or down. I expect the market to decide. I don't expect tytus to decide.

.b

Probably someone trying to delay users of other exchanges where ROI perspectives are lower gathering to picostocks and buying shares with more potential.

Selling MPOE stocks, transferring the Bitcoins to picostocks and buying 100TH stocks takes time. Meanwhile people started to realize that bitfury and tytus might not be the scammers they have been portrayed as and already took notice of the chip test reports on the russian boards.
FUD spreading is the only way to delay this flock a bit while grabbing some cheap shares ;-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 19, 2013, 12:40:49 AM
Meanwhile people started to realize that bitfury and tytus might not be the scammers they have been portrayed as and already took notice of the chip test reports on the russian boards.

I don't think neither tytus nor bitfury are scammers. I belive bitfury is absolutely brilliant and I've bet a substantial amount of money in his success.

I don't believe tytus is a scammer either. I believe he is massively inexperienced and afraid; that inexperience and fear has lead him to kill 100TH as a viable investment by committing acts that in all regulated markets would lead to massive fines or jail time and at the very best should scare investors from leaving money in that asset as long as it is under the control of tytus.

I've written my article on what happened and why it's a disaster. I never heard from tytus fater my invitation for comments, but I still welcome him to publish comments on the article if he so desires.

http://coin.furuknap.net/100th-went-from-great-investment-to-disaster-in-one-act/

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: carnitastaco on June 19, 2013, 01:08:20 AM
How high above .4 were you really expecting?  There isn't ALWAYS another sucker to sell to....

Uhm... Which part of this conversation did you not understand? I don't expect it to go anywhere, up or down. I expect the market to decide. I don't expect tytus to decide.

.b


buy them at his price if you think its worth more.  You're just frustrated that there won't be an endless supply of suckers to sell to at low volumes.  This has nothing to do with markets.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 19, 2013, 01:12:06 AM
How high above .4 were you really expecting?  There isn't ALWAYS another sucker to sell to....

Uhm... Which part of this conversation did you not understand? I don't expect it to go anywhere, up or down. I expect the market to decide. I don't expect tytus to decide.

.b


buy them at his price if you think its worth more.  You're just frustrated that there won't be an endless supply of suckers to sell to at low volumes.  This has nothing to do with markets.

Ah, well, again, because it seems your ability read is challenged: I do not hold any 100TH shares. I benefit from a limit on price. tytus helps me. Financially, I would cry from joy if he dumped the price to 0.2.

If I could trust him to stay away from market manipulation, I would buy. That's why I suggested moving 100TH away from tytus' control and onto another exchange to make it a viable investment again.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: carnitastaco on June 19, 2013, 01:16:19 AM
dude I don't care about your personal holdings and I don't read every post of yours to scrutinize them carefully.  that post includes anyone who thinks its worth more.

There is still a market.  One of the principals is willing to sell at a certain price.  If people think its worth more, they can buy and profit.  Everything else is drama, though to be fair, its the only reason I'm in the thread right now :)

How high above .4 were you really expecting?  There isn't ALWAYS another sucker to sell to....

Uhm... Which part of this conversation did you not understand? I don't expect it to go anywhere, up or down. I expect the market to decide. I don't expect tytus to decide.

.b


buy them at his price if you think its worth more.  You're just frustrated that there won't be an endless supply of suckers to sell to at low volumes.  This has nothing to do with markets.

Ah, well, again, because it seems your ability read is challenged: I do not hold any 100TH shares. I benefit from a limit on price. tytus helps me. Financially, I would cry from joy if he dumped the price to 0.2.

If I could trust him to stay away from market manipulation, I would buy. That's why I suggested moving 100TH away from tytus' control and onto another exchange to make it a viable investment again.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 19, 2013, 01:20:22 AM
There is still a market.  One of the principals is willing to sell at a certain price.  If people think its worth more, they can buy and profit.

No, they cannot, because tytus may and likely will enter the market and take away that profit. It's not about what people think it is worth, it is about what tytus thinks it's worth. That's the entire argument. If he freaks out, like he's done before, then any bad news may lead him to cause people to lose money. If bitfury now says that "damn, there's something wrong, we'll need another two months" then why wouldn't tytus take that out on investors by lowering the price he thinks it's worth?

.b



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 19, 2013, 04:14:16 AM
First I would like to say that chip is working. Complete confirmation using test-vectors.

https://mega.co.nz/#!yVMTTCSA!SFsVTAWeMSnxwUeuRnwR0Wm_d74xVyOdxkL5LEI_LsQ

Here is SPI code to download and test code.

Then - measurements of error rates and real hash rates were performed using 100 first test vectors (as enabled in code), no board cooling (that's pretty impressive - it works on PASSIVE board made by Rene - great thanks BTW - you may use code I provided to perform same tests... Maybe just oscillator should be adjusted - on OUTCLK you'll see clock and you should bring INCLK and OUTMISO to ground while testing).

Results so far

0.596 V, 125 Mhz, 100 tasks sent, 122 solutions got, COP is 0.84 (122/145), Ideal 1.45 GH/s, Real 1.22 Gh/s
0.596 V, 150 Mhz, 100 tasks sent, 19 solutions got, COP is 0.13 (19/145), Ideal 1.74 Gh/s, Real 0.23 Gh/s
0.596 V, 78 Mhz, 0.6 Amps, 0.36 W, 100 tasks sent, 145 solutions got, COP is 1.0, Ideal 0.91 GH/s, Real 0.91 GH/s, 0.39 W/Gh/s
0.596 V, 45 Mhz, 0.39 Amps, 0.23 W, 100 tasks sent, 145 solutions got, COP is 1.0, Ideal 0.52 Gh/s, Real 0.52 Gh/s, 0.44 W / Gh/s
0.596 V, 96 Mhz, 0.725 Amps, 0.43 W, 100 tasks sent, 143 solutions got, COP is 0.986, Ideal 1.12 Gh/s, Real 1.1 Gh/s, 0.39 W / Gh/s

Please note that it seems that 96 Mhz is close to _BEST_ solution... Then I started to increase voltage, while not changing internal oscillator settings - it is not power-stabiized and its oscillation frequency
should follow and grow up. What is most interesting (and this should be confirmed later - this is INTENDED operation) - that oscillating frequency increases, while error rate remains the same as transistor strength in oscillator and interconnect variances within same die are less.

0.7 V 140 Mhz 1.2 Amps 0.84 W 100 tasks, 143 solutions got, COP is 0.986, Ideal 1.63 Gh/s, Real 1.6 Gh/s, 0.52 W / GH/s
0.8 V 180 Mhz 1.87 Amps 1.49 W 100 tasks, 139 solutions got, COP is 0.958, Ideal 2.093 Gh/s, Real 2 Gh/s, 0.75 W / GH/s
0.9 V 214 Mhz 2.62 Amps 2.36 W 100 tasks, 132 solutions got, COP is 0.91, Ideal 2.48 Gh/s, Real 2.26 Gh/s, 1.04 W / Gh/s.

Not tested more... And likely latter was worse due to not enough cooling.

We do not need more just confirmation testing that it works, but we need more extended testing like that. So I'll discuss tomorrow with Leszek and we'll send test chips, and will ask to perform tests and post your results. Also we likely will make some contest for say - best USB-stick (most of hashing power with smallest form-factor), highest hashing rate (real, not ideal, crunching clocks is not a problem), etc.

I would like to note that THIS design thanks to much effort spent in Monte-Carlo sims with flip-flops works really well at low voltages :-) Small error rates and no flip-flop losses like it may happen with logic cells unqualified for low voltages. It scales almost like it should in theory, not like it does in practice when cells are unsuitable and you simply can't go lower because frequency will drop DRAMATICALLY. This enables application of this chip for different kind of heating devices where voltage can be changed in dynamics to adjust produced heat to requirements, etc etc etc.

Also I am preparing to execute payments to all betters, because it is clearly our fault that we failed to meet deadlines. It is too cumbersome to calculate actual bet amount, so I would pay off using averaged multiplication value about 1.86 or so (I don't remember exactly have to look in my calculations).

Thanks that we ordered more wafer count - we now can fulfill say 100 Th/s operations, etc :-) So there's nothing to worry. And we can start planning for further testing and production.


Thank you and congratulations, Bitfury, Tytus, et al!



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: silvermario on June 19, 2013, 08:20:31 AM
There is still a market.  One of the principals is willing to sell at a certain price.  If people think its worth more, they can buy and profit.

No, they cannot, because tytus may and likely will enter the market and take away that profit. It's not about what people think it is worth, it is about what tytus thinks it's worth. That's the entire argument. If he freaks out, like he's done before, then any bad news may lead him to cause people to lose money. If bitfury now says that "damn, there's something wrong, we'll need another two months" then why wouldn't tytus take that out on investors by lowering the price he thinks it's worth?

.b



Please don't spread FUD and lies. The only one who freaked out was you, not Tytys. There was a good market information and all what Tytus did was throwing some shares of his own on the market to increase liquidity and prevent panic buy.

You should go back to your silly bond thread where you try to sell a 20BTC Metabank 120GHz ASIC for 400 BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236310.0).
You are a hypocrite by pretending that you care for investors and all you really want is profit from newbies, suckers and "greater fools".


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: circuitry on June 19, 2013, 08:41:15 AM

Thank you and congratulations, Bitfury, Tytus, et al!



Excellent news. Looking forward to the next report, and hopefully some pictures of the MegaBigPower setup in the coming weeks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on June 19, 2013, 04:41:25 PM
Looking through the ASIC threads the good news just keep piling up, here's hoping it stays that way! :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 19, 2013, 09:57:22 PM
Please don't spread FUD and lies. The only one who freaked out was you, not Tytys. There was a good market information and all what Tytus did was throwing some shares of his own on the market to increase liquidity and prevent panic buy.

You should go back to your silly bond thread where you try to sell a 20BTC Metabank 120GHz ASIC for 400 BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236310.0).
You are a hypocrite by pretending that you care for investors and all you really want is profit from newbies, suckers and "greater fools".

Uhm... Are you really this stupid or do you pretend in order to have one final argument?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on June 20, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
When an update?



Edit:
https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19
thx tytus


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 21, 2013, 01:30:11 AM
18 wafers (more than 200TH/s). 1/2 goes for the mine. 1/4 is already sold as chips to undisclosed manufacturers. They will use them to produce hardware for customers [but who knows when this will be ready]. Rest goes for own development.

I saw bitfury post that there was 400TH (based on original estimates) ordered...I guess that is "more than 200TH", but if you're willing to share, I'm curious how much you over bought (luckily you did!)...e.g. how many total chips. or did you order multiple batches?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on June 21, 2013, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: https://picostocks.com/docs/view/59 on June 21st, 2013, 01:11:15 AM
Chip results are successful. This was the most important and risky milestone of the project. Preliminary test results were posted on Bitcointalk by Bitfury (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.msg2515472#msg2515472).
Unfortunately the chip does not perform as planned. We optimistically assumed a hashrate of 3.5GH/s at 0.6V. The chip is 2 times slower and if overclocked can run at 2GH/s. Further overclocking would be to expensive in terms of hardware prices (power supply).
Because of the lower hash rate we will have problems to deliver the full 104TH/s performance in the next weeks. Only 35296 chips are expected to be available for the mine next week. This corresponds to only 70TH/s. We are still waiting for the other packaging company to provide us with the estimation of the date for the completion of packaging.
We expect a delay of 1-2 weeks in launching the mine. We assume the initial launch will include only 70TH/s and few days later additional 34TH/s will be installed.
First of all, congratulations to all involved in the 100TH project, this is amazing news!

Does the 1-2 week delay mean you expect to launch the mine around mid July instead of July 1st that was originally intended?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 24, 2013, 05:35:04 PM
someone needs to translate this post post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=183368.msg2565513#msg2565513

the google translation is awesome though.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on June 24, 2013, 07:58:52 PM
Quote
the google translation is awesome though.
You mean this:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhabrahabr.ru%2Fpost%2F184506%2F
?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitfury on June 26, 2013, 06:35:31 PM
http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/bitfury-bitcoin-mining-chip

Easier to read english

I'll leak a bit more info - there will be less total Th/s (Edited: not in 100 th/s mine though, I meant overall), also tytus is doing nice move using chip at LOWER voltage rating (getting less hashes per chip, but increasing DENSITY of setup and decreasing PCB count) :-) That allows him to use simple board and relaxes complexity for Dave to do assembly. So overall chances that 100 th/s mine will be done faster than say our hashers that we aim for higher power consumption is highly likely :-) Nice move actually. But to make it happen they still have to do everything right and in tight well-planned way. But - right now I am quite impressed with speed how it moves :-) I had worse estimations before :-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 26, 2013, 10:21:09 PM
http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/bitfury-bitcoin-mining-chip

Easier to read english

I'll leak a bit more info - there will be less total Th/s (Edited: not in 100 th/s mine though, I meant overall), also tytus is doing nice move using chip at LOWER voltage rating (getting less hashes per chip, but increasing DENSITY of setup and decreasing PCB count) :-) That allows him to use simple board and relaxes complexity for Dave to do assembly. So overall chances that 100 th/s mine will be done faster than say our hashers that we aim for higher power consumption is highly likely :-) Nice move actually. But to make it happen they still have to do everything right and in tight well-planned way. But - right now I am quite impressed with speed how it moves :-) I had worse estimations before :-)

Thanks for the info, Bitfury. I'm still a little confused on how many total TH there was supposed to be. Was it 400TH or 200TH (and now less)?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on June 26, 2013, 10:21:49 PM
Is there an estimate on when Dave will start receiving hardware?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tytus on June 26, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
Is there an estimate on when Dave will start receiving hardware?

The total hashing power in chips (1.5GH/s per chip) allocated to the mine that are currently being packaged exceeds 104TH/s. We don't know the yield, but we expect no problems with the chips. We have to collect the chips from 2 packaging companies though. We will either assemble everything in USA or 50% in USA and the rest in EU depending on the offers we get from PCB assembling plants. Chips will arrive after the 7th of July from one company and beginning of July ( :) ) from the other. PCBs will be ready before that. The assembly of PCBs can take more than a week though :-( So we may start mining in the 3rd week of July. The installation of the assembled PCBs will be fast (1-2 days) and the data center(s) will be prepared for this.
We hope to have a prototype version of the mining device beginning of next week (>1TH/s). This device will be assembled using the small amount of chips we got in advance. We will use it to tune the mining system. We plan solo mining.

We made a big mistake assuming that the packaging of chips will not introduce substantial delays. Instead of preparing the boards in advance based on simulated (guessed) parameters of the chips we have focused this month on implementation of contingency plans for the packaging delays. We hope the investors will be satisfied anyway with the results, due to lower than estimated competition (network hash rate).

however our installation costs are substantially higher than expected due to many express production contracts (expedited packaging, PCB production or assembly is many times more expensive than if prepared in advance).

=> we will sell shares next week (at market price) to get funds for additional expenses. I have no idea how many but most likely not more than 5000 shares.

We have also no plans yet for future exploitation of the chips. We will work on the plans when the mine is deployed.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on June 26, 2013, 11:34:09 PM
=> we will sell shares next week (at market price) to get funds for additional expenses. I have no idea how many but most likely not more than 5000 shares.

See how easy that was? If you'd just included the price (which would define both what you'd get and make sure investors know even better what to expect) you'd be right on the money!

Keep it up, good work!

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Kyune on July 01, 2013, 06:24:22 AM
Latest report posted on Picostocks:

Quote

Deployment schedule

We are having problems finding contractors able to produce and assemble PCBs for us. The best time we are getting for the completion of the process is 2013-07-25. We will try to get faster production schedule but current worse case scenario is deployment of the mine by the end of July.

Created on 2013-06-30 18:04:00    by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-30 18:07:58    by koji;



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on July 01, 2013, 06:33:48 AM
Latest report posted on Picostocks:

Quote

Deployment schedule

We are having problems finding contractors able to produce and assemble PCBs for us. The best time we are getting for the completion of the process is 2013-07-25. We will try to get faster production schedule but current worse case scenario is deployment of the mine by the end of July.

Created on 2013-06-30 18:04:00    by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-06-30 18:07:58    by koji;


Worst case scenarios in Bitcoin world come true all the time. I won't be surprised.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on July 01, 2013, 10:07:00 AM
Worst case scenarios in Bitcoin world come true all the time. I won't be surprised.

Almost everyone is delaying though, so we're still somewhat on course.

(AM being the single exception as of now, but it comes with a premium price...)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 01, 2013, 03:05:33 PM
I went and checked nethash, to my shock and surprise it hasn't appreciably changed. Then I come here because literally I could not believe my eyes, how could the nethash not move with such a prestigious scamchange bringing online such a prestigious self-dreamed up scamsset! And then what do I see?!

Almost everyone is delaying though, so we're still somewhat on course.

I have read that again, where I wonder? Oh, I know! Hello 2012, nice to meet you again. Will you be staying for the rest of the year?

If outside the operator and his shills there exist any idiots that actually sent their .1 BTC or w/e into this black hole I would very much like to recommend you diversify into other great ventures, like perhaps this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159560.msg2622457#msg2622457), or maybe bAsic. Good luck!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on July 01, 2013, 06:27:41 PM
i remember all your ranting against asicminer and how s.dice is much better an investment, so i take your skepticism as a good omen :p

seriously though, given the current state of the bitcoin ecosystem, what other ventures / assets are there outside of mining ventures with varying degrees of risk and scam-probability? most of the non-mining related ventures have little to show so far as well and many will fail or underperform. of course some assets are more attractive than others, but at the current stage of bitcoin the risk-reward relation of mining and other market assets still seem at par to me.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 01, 2013, 07:49:26 PM
i remember all your ranting against asicminer and how s.dice is much better an investment, so i take your skepticism as a good omen :p

seriously though, given the current state of the bitcoin ecosystem, what other ventures / assets are there outside of mining ventures with varying degrees of risk and scam-probability? most of the non-mining related ventures have little to show so far as well and many will fail or underperform. of course some assets are more attractive than others, but at the current stage of bitcoin the risk-reward relation of mining and other market assets still seem at par to me.

Your memory is either very bad or else the general assemblage is kind of broken. Don't be afraid of quoting.

As to the other point: I'm not here to do your homework, I'm here to laugh at you, your bad memory, your broken general assemblage and your missing homework.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on July 01, 2013, 10:10:15 PM
...i wasn't asking for financial advice, i'm just interested in other people's opinions. the bullshit i'll weed out myself.

either way, fruitless discussion, moving on.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Andrey on July 02, 2013, 08:26:44 AM
...i wasn't asking for financial advice, i'm just interested in other people's opinions. the bullshit i'll weed out myself.

either way, fruitless discussion, moving on.

Don't take him seriously, he spams all over the forums with this: "This user is currently ignored." ,)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on July 02, 2013, 11:02:58 AM
...i wasn't asking for financial advice, i'm just interested in other people's opinions. the bullshit i'll weed out myself.

either way, fruitless discussion, moving on.

Don't take him seriously, he spams all over the forums with this: "This user is currently ignored." ,)

well someone has to keep the trolls well fed ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 02, 2013, 08:28:41 PM
...i wasn't asking for financial advice, i'm just interested in other people's opinions. the bullshit i'll weed out myself.

either way, fruitless discussion, moving on.

Don't take him seriously, he spams all over the forums with this: "This user is currently ignored." ,)

I can't fault you for talking too much, so that's a plus. If you read more you'd at least get the genders straight.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: hamiltino on July 02, 2013, 08:49:25 PM
You didn't mention anything about your previous business history/qualifications. In the end of the day we are investing in you to pull this off.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on July 03, 2013, 09:37:37 AM
         +-------------------+             .:\:\:/:/:.            
         |   PLEASE DO NOT   |            :.:\:\:/:/:.:           
         |  FEED THE TROLLS  |           :=.' -   - '.=:         
         |                   |           '=(\ 9   9 /)='         
         |   Thank you,      |              (  (_)  )             
         |       Management  |              /`-vvv-'\             
         +-------------------+             /         \           
                 |  |        @@@          / /|,,,,,|\ \           
                 |  |        @@@         /_//  /^\  \\_\         
   @x@@x@        |  |         |/         WW(  (   )  )WW         
   \||||/        |  |        \|           __\,,\ /,,/__           
    \||/         |  |         |          (______Y______)         
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
==================================================================



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Felipeo on July 04, 2013, 08:05:05 AM
         +-------------------+             .:\:\:/:/:.            
         |   PLEASE DO NOT   |            :.:\:\:/:/:.:           
         |  FEED THE TROLLS  |           :=.' -   - '.=:         
         |                   |           '=(\ 9   9 /)='         
         |   Thank you,      |              (  (_)  )             
         |       Management  |              /`-vvv-'\             
         +-------------------+             /         \           
                 |  |        @@@          / /|,,,,,|\ \           
                 |  |        @@@         /_//  /^\  \\_\         
   @x@@x@        |  |         |/         WW(  (   )  )WW         
   \||||/        |  |        \|           __\,,\ /,,/__           
    \||/         |  |         |          (______Y______)         
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
==================================================================



 ;D

+1


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: circuitry on July 05, 2013, 11:18:20 AM
This has to be the most poorly maintained thread of all mining operations. I understand you guys are working hard to be up and running in August, but seriously...

No updates? No pictures? No projections? No FAQ?

At all?

Even Friedcat posts more often than you guys :(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on July 05, 2013, 12:08:49 PM
=> we will sell shares next week (at market price) to get funds for additional expenses. I have no idea how many but most likely not more than 5000 shares.
They just put the 5000 wall,oh no,only 1000.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 05, 2013, 09:16:13 PM
There is still a market.  One of the principals is willing to sell at a certain price.  If people think its worth more, they can buy and profit.

No, they cannot, because tytus may and likely will enter the market and take away that profit. It's not about what people think it is worth, it is about what tytus thinks it's worth. That's the entire argument. If he freaks out, like he's done before, then any bad news may lead him to cause people to lose money. If bitfury now says that "damn, there's something wrong, we'll need another two months" then why wouldn't tytus take that out on investors by lowering the price he thinks it's worth?

.b



Please don't spread FUD and lies. The only one who freaked out was you, not Tytys. There was a good market information and all what Tytus did was throwing some shares of his own on the market to increase liquidity and prevent panic buy.

You should go back to your silly bond thread where you try to sell a 20BTC Metabank 120GHz ASIC for 400 BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236310.0).
You are a hypocrite by pretending that you care for investors and all you really want is profit from newbies, suckers and "greater fools".

Ballsy of a "fund owner" selling 100gh/s for 400 BTC to criticize a mining OP that will offer (at current price) a possible 25% dividend in the first month or two of operation (based on 100th running in aug) while his fund is EV- from IPO price and just accelerated its demise with diff increases.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 05, 2013, 09:33:17 PM
Ballsy of a "fund owner" selling 100gh/s for 400 BTC to criticize a mining OP that will offer (at current price) a possible 25% dividend in the first month or two of operation (based on 100th running in aug) while his fund is EV- from IPO price and just accelerated its demise with diff increases.

Wow... Apparently, you didn't get your basic reading skills from any Swedish schools, because they seem to know what they're doing.

What about those 'suckers' that bought at market price just a few days ago, who was now delivered a 30% blow to their investments, just because tytus needed more money after miscalculating the cost?

Well, I guess that's OK; after all, he did say he'd sell at market himself, and then selling 30% below that... What's 30% between friends, right?

If you had bothered reading any of my critique, though, it is not about price because 100th is very competitively priced. The issue is how tytus runs picostocks and his approach to the market. If you had bought at a price that resembles mine (around 0.75) you would now have lost more than half your investment. Seems like a great investment now, right?

Why do you think the market doesn't want to pay as much for 100th as they pay for BFMines or TAT.VM? What do you think my investors would say if I broke my promise to keep the price at the announced level just because I had some extra bills to pay? Do you think perhaps they may say that 'why did I have to pay X when someone else just paid X-Y?'

In any case, a few weeks ago, I wrote about why 100th is no longer a viable asset to me, and tytus just demonstrated I was right.

http://coin.furuknap.net/100th-went-from-great-investment-to-disaster-in-one-act/

He was doing very well with his previous announcement, but once again failed to keep his promise, so it's sort of moot.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 06, 2013, 12:00:14 AM
I went and checked nethash, to my shock and surprise it hasn't appreciably changed. Then I come here because literally I could not believe my eyes, how could the nethash not move with such a prestigious scamchange bringing online such a prestigious self-dreamed up scamsset! And then what do I see?!

Almost everyone is delaying though, so we're still somewhat on course.

I have read that again, where I wonder? Oh, I know! Hello 2012, nice to meet you again. Will you be staying for the rest of the year?

If outside the operator and his shills there exist any idiots that actually sent their .1 BTC or w/e into this black hole I would very much like to recommend you diversify into other great ventures, like perhaps this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159560.msg2622457#msg2622457), or maybe bAsic. Good luck!

Mpoe is something ass violently odd as a risk-averse investor in BTC shares (except his own wild ventures of course, which always pan out and are 100% scam free). Everyone should listen to him and sell your shares super cheap (to me).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 06, 2013, 12:04:57 AM
Ballsy of a "fund owner" selling 100gh/s for 400 BTC to criticize a mining OP that will offer (at current price) a possible 25% dividend in the first month or two of operation (based on 100th running in aug) while his fund is EV- from IPO price and just accelerated its demise with diff increases.

Wow... Apparently, you didn't get your basic reading skills from any Swedish schools, because they seem to know what they're doing.

What about those 'suckers' that bought at market price just a few days ago, who was now delivered a 30% blow to their investments, just because tytus needed more money after miscalculating the cost?

Well, I guess that's OK; after all, he did say he'd sell at market himself, and then selling 30% below that... What's 30% between friends, right?

If you had bothered reading any of my critique, though, it is not about price because 100th is very competitively priced. The issue is how tytus runs picostocks and his approach to the market. If you had bought at a price that resembles mine (around 0.75) you would now have lost more than half your investment. Seems like a great investment now, right?

Why do you think the market doesn't want to pay as much for 100th as they pay for BFMines or TAT.VM? What do you think my investors would say if I broke my promise to keep the price at the announced level just because I had some extra bills to pay? Do you think perhaps they may say that 'why did I have to pay X when someone else just paid X-Y?'

In any case, a few weeks ago, I wrote about why 100th is no longer a viable asset to me, and tytus just demonstrated I was right.

http://coin.furuknap.net/100th-went-from-great-investment-to-disaster-in-one-act/

He was doing very well with his previous announcement, but once again failed to keep his promise, so it's sort of moot.

.b

Then I guess your argument holds somewhat more water. I would still like to see you plug BFMINES into the ROI calculation you made for ASICMINER and 100TH in the comparison post and explain (not explain away) how you plan of providing positive return to anyone investing in BFMINES at IPO price.

I am aware it's not an 'ownership' stock, but I still can't shake the feeling that you purchased a 120Gh miner for BTC40 (likely less, I purchased mine including US shipping for 30) and have resold it to share holders for BTC400 and change (since the bond represents only 100 of 120 GHs/ after bonus dividend).

Just comes off as a little "pricey" (insert huge smiley face). Then again, I pretty much consider all mining bonds "scams" at this point. The market is ripe for suckers I guess.

I honestly feel that the 100TH is the only possible exception, based on the amount of hash speed and possibly early time to market.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 06, 2013, 12:21:24 AM
Then I guess your argument holds somewhat more water. I would still like to see you plug BFMINES into the ROI calculation you made for ASICMINER and 100TH in the comparison post and explain (not explain away) how you plan of providing positive return to anyone investing in BFMINES at IPO price.

I did:

http://coin.furuknap.net/comparing-bfmines-to-alternatives/

In short, 100th is better priced, but I cannot trust the issuer so it's a moot point. I held 100th for a while because it was a worthwhile investment, but the risk of tytus doing something like he did now is too great for me.

If you're willing to take that risk, then 100th is a cheaper asset than BFMines, no question about that.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 06, 2013, 12:25:05 AM
Then I guess your argument holds somewhat more water. I would still like to see you plug BFMINES into the ROI calculation you made for ASICMINER and 100TH in the comparison post and explain (not explain away) how you plan of providing positive return to anyone investing in BFMINES at IPO price.

I did:

http://coin.furuknap.net/comparing-bfmines-to-alternatives/

In short, 100th is better priced, but I cannot trust the issuer so it's a moot point. I held 100th for a while because it was a worthwhile investment, but the risk of tytus doing something like he did now is too great for me.

If you're willing to take that risk, then 100th is a cheaper asset than BFMines, no question about that.

.b

I guess what I don't understand (in general and not aimed at BFMINES which is actually one of the lower priced mining bonds), is how a lot of the mining bonds that offer no re-investment plans are going to "survive" long enough for bond owners to even make back the initial price in dividends vs. inevitable decline of the share value.

In comparison to most mining bonds, even buying USB block erupters is a EV+ proposition even power and some maintenance included. Especially the higher priced ones.

Or is it so simple that people are simply betting on cashing in on some early dividends and pass the share on at purchase price or higher to someone even worse at math then themselves?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 06, 2013, 12:51:12 AM
I guess what I don't understand (in general and not aimed at BFMINES which is actually one of the lower priced mining bonds), is how a lot of the mining bonds that offer no re-investment plans are going to "survive" long enough for bond owners to even make back the initial price in dividends vs. inevitable decline of the share value.

Well, I guess it is a question of whether you believe in the PPG theory (perpetual proportional growth). If you do, no mining investment will ever make back it's initial investment and Bitcoin mining is doomed. We'll also quickly run into some limitations of physics in a couple of years, but let's leave splitting silicon atoms out of the picture for now.

If, though, you believe that mining may rise on averge around 10-15% for eight to ten months and then flatten out, then mining investments make sense again.

Even better, if you believe that some providers may fail still (at the level of what BFL has already done) or if people realize that mining isn't as lucrative as they thought (BTC50 for a 13GHs AM blade, c'mon) then mining investments become lucrative (and people will come flocking back).

Any mining investment, whether contracts, companies, or hardware, will always be a bet against difficulty rising too far and too quickly. Even AM suffers from this; the investments required to keep their share of the network haven't been paid for and must come from future dividends. Too much difficulty rise and costs go up. effectively you're just outsourcing your reinvestment strategy to friedcat. He may be in a much better bargaining position than other any individual, though, and I'm guessing that's why people pay a premium on those shares.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 06, 2013, 01:01:04 AM
I am aware it's not an 'ownership' stock, but I still can't shake the feeling that you purchased a 120Gh miner for BTC40 (likely less, I purchased mine including US shipping for 30) and have resold it to share holders for BTC400 and change (since the bond represents only 100 of 120 GHs/ after bonus dividend).

Just comes off as a little "pricey" (insert huge smiley face). Then again, I pretty much consider all mining bonds "scams" at this point. The market is ripe for suckers I guess.

I've responded to this multiple times; keep in mind that the cost to a manufacturer rarely is a measure of the price or value of the output.

My costs, though, are far above BTC40, and even direct costs to not include the risk I'm assuming on guaranteeing the output of the mine. In my calculations, I've afforded myself a risk premium of around 8% per year, and I've assumed that the mining will be running for three years. If it runs longer, great, I've earned more than 8% on the risk and investors gain more in return on their investments.

Here's a simple question if you believe this is so lucrative; seeing how abundant miners on pre-orders are these days, if it was so profitable to run a mining contract cheaper than I do, why aren't there a lot of other assets popping up at more competitive prices? In fact, if you think it's so profitable, why don't you sell your own miner as a mining contract for BTC300 or 200? You'd make a killing in the market, selling at half the price of both TAT.VM and me, and you'd be much more 'honorable' than us 'scammers'.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on July 06, 2013, 09:46:21 PM
Furuknap, stop trolling here. You wanted to speculate (buy lower and sell higher after good news about chips) on 100TH with no big success.
The shareholders (near all of them) bought the shares for dividends, not for speculation. What Tytus do with his shares is of no importance to shareholders, because it doesn't change the sum of the dividends.

Now you have no 100TH shares and we aren't interested in reading your opinions again and again. And keep for yourself the theory about BFMINES costs, risks etc.. We know how to count on and what to think about it.
Keep this thread clean.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 06, 2013, 10:11:03 PM
Furuknap, stop trolling here. You wanted to speculate (buy lower and sell higher after good news about chips) on 100TH with no big success.

Because you have no idea when I bought, when I sold, or what success I had, I'm going to put as much faith in the rest of your comments as I do in the above statement.

The shareholders (near all of them) bought the shares for dividends, not for speculation. What Tytus do with his shares is of no importance to shareholders, because it doesn't change the sum of the dividends.

I'm guessing that's why there's no trading going on.

BTW it does matter because if tytus decides what you can sell your shares for then he's essentially controlling your ability to get out if you need. He has written extensively about how 100th gives investors an opportunity to get out.

They still can, of course, as long as he approves. If you buy above what he thinks is reasonable, you're a sucker and he'll take away your money like he has three times now. Someone tried after the announcement about the latest delays, for example, to get out at above 0.3 a few days ago, but that wasn't allowed.

What rate do you think you'll be allowed to exit if there are even further delays? 0.25? 0.2? What if tytus needs more money to fund something? What if Dave's facilities need more power?

Investors who buy now risk being left with the bill; they pay a premium in advance (up to 30% if I recall the latest BIDs) so that tytus doesn't have to run any risk of exceeding the budget. If he does, he'll just get that money from those sucker investors who paid more than he approved.

I don't care about the prices; tytus can sell for a bitcent if that's his wish. In fact, it would be great because at those levels, I might actually consider the risk of further manipulation.

It is, however, vitally important how he acts in the market because this ultimately defines who takes the risk and who can just walk over to the virtual ATM and withdraw more money from investors.

Actions like these also ultimately affects the entire Bitcoin asset trade; when actions such as the ones tytus have done are just shrugged off, we'll never be able to attract serious investments because the people with serious investments will see actions like these as madness.

Now you have no 100TH shares and we aren't interested in reading your opinions again and again. And keep for yourself the theory about BFMINES costs, risks etc.. We know how to count on and what to think about it.
Keep this thread clean.

I do think someone asked explicitly about this. I guess they should have asked in the BFMines thread, but they did direct their comments directly at me, just like you are doing now.

I'd be happy to refrain from talking about BFMines in here, though, as long as there aren't any direct questions or comments about it. I strongly urge anyone to keep those comments and questions in the BFMines thread instead so the focus here can remain on 100th.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236310

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on July 06, 2013, 11:30:16 PM
furuknap = mii6 ??  ???


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on July 07, 2013, 08:43:31 AM
OK, to keep this thread clean, let's continue the dead horse bashing in furuknap's own thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236310 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236310)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gaba on July 08, 2013, 04:42:39 PM
=> we will sell shares next week (at market price) to get funds for additional expenses. I have no idea how many but most likely not more than 5000 shares.
They just put the 5000 wall,oh no,only 1000.

Market price? Right now (on the market) you can buy the same board from 100TH-mine project for 1000EUR. August delivery. 16,6 BTC for 25GH.
With share price (0.3 BTC) hashing power from 100TH-mine project is not that attractive any more.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gaba on July 08, 2013, 07:18:43 PM
...and boom, big sales. Someone thinks the same way. New price  is 0.19


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on July 08, 2013, 08:20:07 PM
=> we will sell shares next week (at market price) to get funds for additional expenses. I have no idea how many but most likely not more than 5000 shares.
They just put the 5000 wall,oh no,only 1000.

Market price? Right now (on the market) you can buy the same board from 100TH-mine project for 1000EUR. August delivery. 16,6 BTC for 25GH.
With share price (0.3 BTC) hashing power from 100TH-mine project is not that attractive any more.

Actually you'll pay more than 20% VAT more which makes it ~20BTC for 25GH. An equivalent share price (for 200MH/s / share) would then be 0.16BTC.

You must consider the fact that the 100TH mine should be delivered before (they are the first bitfury clients) and should then have ~ one month head start (first to be delivered and no shipping delays to you).
Another advantage is that you won't have to operate any hardware and when you feel like selling it, you'll sell it on an exchange instead of using an escrow and shipping it wherever your buyer lives (hoping nothing happens to it or paying for insurance).
There should be more buyers for 200MH/s chunks than 25GH/s one: it should drive the price up too.

The actual value should still be in the 0.2 to 0.5 BTC range depending on many things. Too bad I don't have any Bitcoin to invest in this anymore: I maxed out my mining rigs and will actually have to sell hardware shortly because I can't use more power where I live and I expect an Avalon shortly.

I might invest in bitfury hardware, but I've been burned by bASIC cancellation and Avalon delays so I see ASICMINER and the 100TH mine has means of diversification. The only ones I never considered are BFL (talk about being burned...).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on July 10, 2013, 12:43:37 AM
Quote from: https://picostocks.com/docs/view/61 on June 30, 2013, 06:07:58 PM
We are having problems finding contractors able to produce and assemble PCBs for us. The best time we are getting for the completion of the process is 2013-07-25. We will try to get faster production schedule but current worse case scenario is deployment of the mine by the end of July.

It's been 10 days since this report now. Could we get an update soon? How is the hunt for contractors going?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 10, 2013, 09:15:14 PM
Quote from: https://picostocks.com/docs/view/61 on June 30, 2013, 06:07:58 PM
We are having problems finding contractors able to produce and assemble PCBs for us. The best time we are getting for the completion of the process is 2013-07-25. We will try to get faster production schedule but current worse case scenario is deployment of the mine by the end of July.

It's been 10 days since this report now. Could we get an update soon? How is the hunt for contractors going?

I can share some info I got via PM on the 5th. They've sent chips out to be assembled with PCB and hope to have them done in 20 days (from the 5th). After they get the boards, it will be very quick (maybe a day) to rack the hardware.


I believe the hardware 100TH is deploying is the same being sold by megabigpower and bitfurystrikesback, so you can see how simple it is to assemble those boards. One thing that I'd have a question about is if there is enough power at the data center. The original power estimates in the business plan say the mine will require ~25kW, but based on the H-Board hardware it looks like it will be more like 62.5-100 kW (big range...website states 400W per 400GH, but I think buzzdave stated 250-300W). The other thing to worry about is network capacity and the private pool setup. I know ASICMINER was slow to deploy due to network load...hopefully that problem has been anticipated.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on July 15, 2013, 03:30:07 PM
When will the new report?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on July 15, 2013, 03:42:06 PM
From the last report: "The best time we are getting for the completion of the process is 2013-07-25."
Let's wait patiently until this date. What else can we do?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on July 15, 2013, 08:07:11 PM
From the last report: "The best time we are getting for the completion of the process is 2013-07-25."
Let's wait patiently until this date. What else can we do?

We can't do much. tytus can, however, and it wouldn't require much effort. I don't expect a report very often as they are usually elaborate and/or meant for big news. A small update, however, could be anything from insight on the latest phone call with the contractor, an email conversation etc.

There are a lot of shareholders who have spent considerable amounts of money on this project, and it would be nice with an update a bit more often than every two weeks.

I do realize that tytus and the rest of his team are probably very busy right now, but at the very least I think the shareholders deserve to know whether the PCB's are on track to being completed within the 25th, or if we can expect further delays.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 15, 2013, 08:50:19 PM
Not answering serious questions on the forum while share price drops. I guess Tytus is from the 'Friedcat' school of promotion and marketing.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: zrn on July 16, 2013, 08:48:20 AM
based on my knowledge : there will be about month of delay... ;(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on July 16, 2013, 10:28:50 AM
based on my knowledge : there will be about month of delay... ;(

Where is your knowledge derived from?

Also, are you talking about one month delay from the original plan (which we are already looking at, as the plan was to deploy the mine by July 1st) or one month of additional delay on top of the delay we are already experiencing?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 16, 2013, 03:27:25 PM
The lack of response isn't exactly reassuring. I am prob dumping my stock soon if nothing is communicated.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 17, 2013, 04:09:57 AM
I hate to say "I told you so," but...

I bought 100th somewhere between 0.10 and 0.12 because with the risks involved at the time, that was a good price. Now, all we know is that tytus needed to sell 'up to 5000 shares at market price' to pay for getting the mine up, and barely managed to sell 1200. That means either that the need wasn't actually there or that the need is still there and we'll see a massive dump at far lower prices shortly.

If 'at market price' meant 0.3 as seems to be the case, this means a need for BTC1500 or what was at the time $150.000 (roughly the same as today).

With BIDs at 0.2 and assuming the need is still the same, that means another ~6000 shares must be sold to cover the increased costs. There isn't anywhere near a BID side to support this, though, so now we're suddenly talking about a risk of default instead or that tytus needs to go outside the market to acquire funds through loans or other means of financing.

In either case, 100th is in dire straits, I'm sorry to say. They may gamble that their costs wont be collected until the mine operates and that they can pay for costs then or the founders may step in and upfront the costs themselves. Regardless, those costs must be paid by someone, and I fear that 'someone' will be the investors.

.b

PS: I'm still assuming that tytus is an honest person and that the increased cost won't simply 'go away' (which would indicate the need was never there and that the sale was done to line someone's pockets).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 17, 2013, 08:04:59 AM
Speculations, speculations, speculations....

Don't sell a skin on living bear...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 17, 2013, 07:45:14 PM
Speculations, speculations, speculations....

Don't sell a skin on living bear...

I think the better statement here would be "don't buy the skin until the bear is dead".

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 17, 2013, 10:50:00 PM
I went and checked nethash, to my shock and surprise it hasn't appreciably changed. Then I come here because literally I could not believe my eyes, how could the nethash not move with such a prestigious scamchange bringing online such a prestigious self-dreamed up scamsset! And then what do I see?!

Almost everyone is delaying though, so we're still somewhat on course.

I have read that again, where I wonder? Oh, I know! Hello 2012, nice to meet you again. Will you be staying for the rest of the year?

If outside the operator and his shills there exist any idiots that actually sent their .1 BTC or w/e into this black hole I would very much like to recommend you diversify into other great ventures, like perhaps this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159560.msg2622457#msg2622457), or maybe bAsic. Good luck!

Two weeks later. Should I check back in two weeks?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: shadallion on July 17, 2013, 11:12:04 PM
So glad I sold my whole stake a few weeks ago.  These guys are on vacation or something.  In a market with explosive performance everywehre, 100th is totally stagnated and playing the waiting game. 

I'll check back in October.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on July 18, 2013, 12:08:46 AM
I've some new BTC to invest, could people spread a little more FUD on 100th so that the price goes down a bit more before I buy?

Thanks for your benevolent help.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 18, 2013, 05:50:38 AM
Quote from: https://picostocks.com/docs/view/61 on June 30, 2013, 06:07:58 PM
We are having problems finding contractors able to produce and assemble PCBs for us. The best time we are getting for the completion of the process is 2013-07-25. We will try to get faster production schedule but current worse case scenario is deployment of the mine by the end of July.

It's been 10 days since this report now. Could we get an update soon? How is the hunt for contractors going?

I can share some info I got via PM on the 5th. They've sent chips out to be assembled with PCB and hope to have them done in 20 days (from the 5th). After they get the boards, it will be very quick (maybe a day) to rack the hardware.


I believe the hardware 100TH is deploying is the same being sold by megabigpower and bitfurystrikesback, so you can see how simple it is to assemble those boards. One thing that I'd have a question about is if there is enough power at the data center. The original power estimates in the business plan say the mine will require ~25kW, but based on the H-Board hardware it looks like it will be more like 62.5-100 kW (big range...website states 400W per 400GH, but I think buzzdave stated 250-300W). The other thing to worry about is network capacity and the private pool setup. I know ASICMINER was slow to deploy due to network load...hopefully that problem has been anticipated.

Kaerf is right - its a lot more power and cooling than a 25kW load.  I'm planning for 100kW critical load with AC on top of that, with headroom.  All my switches are pro-level gig switches and my primary internet feed is fiber, uncapped at 100mbit.  Redundant feed will be less awesome though.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 18, 2013, 06:01:20 AM
The lack of response isn't exactly reassuring. I am prob dumping my stock soon if nothing is communicated.

Apologies for the radio silence.  I can personally attest to the number of hours Tytus is putting into making this project a success.  I can assure you he's working very hard on the investors' behalf, and probably just let the updates slide.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on July 18, 2013, 06:34:55 AM
The lack of response isn't exactly reassuring. I am prob dumping my stock soon if nothing is communicated.

Apologies for the radio silence.  I can personally attest to the number of hours Tytus is putting into making this project a success.  I can assure you he's working very hard on the investors' behalf, and probably just let the updates slide.

Dammit Dave, you'll make all these cheap investment disappear with such reassurances :-)

Jokes set aside, good to get updates about the mine. Hope you'll take (/you are taking) pictures along the way when setting it up. Please review pictures for any information relevant to physical security before posting them though.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 18, 2013, 09:48:46 AM
I've some new BTC to invest, could people spread a little more FUD on 100th so that the price goes down a bit more before I buy?

Thanks for your benevolent help.

Let's quote from back when you were pushing the (first) Basic scam:

These ASICs mishaps will have one positive effect: at least people purchasing mining equipment telling themselves fairy tales will look a get rich quick scheme elsewhere.

You're a certified idiot, you know this, right?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on July 18, 2013, 01:49:38 PM
I've some new BTC to invest, could people spread a little more FUD on 100th so that the price goes down a bit more before I buy?

Thanks for your benevolent help.

Let's quote from back when you were pushing the (first) Basic scam:

These ASICs mishaps will have one positive effect: at least people purchasing mining equipment telling themselves fairy tales will look a get rich quick scheme elsewhere.

You're a certified idiot, you know this, right?

I know I'm sitting on a pile of BTCs from previous investments that I won't reinvest on MPOE...

http://icdn2.digitaltrends.com/image/you-mad-bro-650x0.png

I may lose some on 100th if they f*ck it up and this wouldn't be the first time I lose BTC. This is all about controlled and distributed risk and in the end I'm quite happy with my investments, thank you.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on July 18, 2013, 05:07:24 PM
Things are getting a little tense here...

Can't wait to look back and see who's crowing and who's trolling some other thread in a month.

If you can read technical russian (thanks Google Translate) you can sort of follow the progress of 100th by following the current posts of the lead peeps...as they hash out the wrinkles

If that's BS, it's some very high grade BS.



I'm holding, and I'm sorry if you need the money now and have to sell your stock.
Sucks for you.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 18, 2013, 05:14:53 PM
Things are getting a little tense here...

Can't wait to look back and see who's crowing and who's trolling some other thread in a month.

If you can read technical russian (thanks Google Translate) you can sort of follow the progress of 100th by following the current posts of the lead peeps...as they hash out the wrinkles

If that's BS, it's some very high grade BS.



I'm holding, and I'm sorry if you need the money now and have to sell your stock.
Sucks for you.

Why would Russians be involved in getting 100th up at this point? Or are you refering to Bitfury who has already demonstrated the chips work and is thus irrelevant at this point?

100th now is dependent on Polish and US people; Polish because the founders are Polish and US because the hoster is in the US.

The issue now isn't whether Bitfury delivers; we've already determined that. The issue now is how are they going to pay for the additional expenses the suddenly got (increasing power to data center, issues with PMBs, etc). If they cannot get the funds from the market (and it seems they are struggling) what are the backup plans? What is the risk they can't raise funds at all and will default?

It is fairly obvious that the market sees this risk, as prices have literally crashed in the previous month, despite the mine now being ever closer to launch. Where other fixed-rate mining assets have fallen perhaps 10-20%, 100TH has fallen 60% from the previous top at just under 0.5.

If you are confident, however, you should buy. Simple as that.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 18, 2013, 05:53:30 PM
Tytus doesn't need funds from the 100TH shares, neither do I for getting the facility ready. 

Tytus made it clear from very early that he didn't want speculators running the price up on the unaware shareholders.  He's happier with 100TH at this price than at at .50 - I'll make sure to provide a solid update for you very soon to ease your nerves. Give me a day or two.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 18, 2013, 05:57:53 PM
Tytus doesn't need funds from the 100TH shares, neither do I for getting the facility ready. 

Tytus made it clear from very early that he didn't want speculators running the price up on the unaware shareholders.  He's happier with 100TH at this price than at at .50 - I'll make sure to provide a solid update for you very soon to ease your nerves. Give me a day or two.

Hang on...

=> we will sell shares next week (at market price) to get funds for additional expenses. I have no idea how many but most likely not more than 5000 shares.

So that was just a lie? This need just disappeared?

I'm really looking forward to the update. There is some serious explaining that needs to happen.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 18, 2013, 07:23:41 PM
Tytus doesn't need funds from the 100TH shares, neither do I for getting the facility ready. 

Tytus made it clear from very early that he didn't want speculators running the price up on the unaware shareholders.  He's happier with 100TH at this price than at at .50 - I'll make sure to provide a solid update for you very soon to ease your nerves. Give me a day or two.

Hang on...

=> we will sell shares next week (at market price) to get funds for additional expenses. I have no idea how many but most likely not more than 5000 shares.

So that was just a lie? This need just disappeared?

I'm really looking forward to the update. There is some serious explaining that needs to happen.

.b

I've said before, Tytus has other resources.  He doesn't need to publicly disclose where he gets his funding from.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 18, 2013, 07:26:11 PM
I've said before, Tytus has other resources.  He doesn't need to publicly disclose where he gets his funding from.

I'm sure he has and that is evident from the various funder accounts, but the question remains; is he (or his sources) donating these funds to the investors out of the goodness of their hearts? If not, how will this be paid back? If it is a kind gift, knowing the amount will certainly be important to determine the investments.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 18, 2013, 07:43:50 PM
I've said before, Tytus has other resources.  He doesn't need to publicly disclose where he gets his funding from.

I'm sure he has and that is evident from the various funder accounts, but the question remains; is he (or his sources) donating these funds to the investors our of the goodness of their hearts? If not, how will this be paid back? If it is a kind gift, knowing the amount will certainly be important to determine the investments.

.b
100TH shareholders benefit from being part of a bigger picture (production of Bitfury chips and the mining hardware for sale).  Tytus and Bitfury are investing in that business, which insures that 100TH gets built and shareholders get the mining output that they purchased.  Tytus manages all this, so I don't know what amount of funding he allocates as coming from 100TH versus other sources.

I'm just trying to address the accusation that 100TH is somehow in trouble because Tytus didn't sell the 5,000 share block he talked about.  100TH is in fact assured because there are so many people getting behind the bigger effort.  What 100TH benefits from most is that the first production run of boards was allocated 100% to those shareholders, is already in production and will be mining well before retail product begins to ship.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 18, 2013, 08:15:56 PM
100TH shareholders benefit from being part of a bigger picture (production of Bitfury chips and the mining hardware for sale).  Tytus and Bitfury are investing in that business, which insures that 100TH gets built and shareholders get the mining output that they purchased.  Tytus manages all this, so I don't know what amount of funding he allocates as coming from 100TH versus other sources.

I'm just trying to address the accusation that 100TH is somehow in trouble because Tytus didn't sell the 5,000 share block he talked about.  100TH is in fact assured because there are so many people getting behind the bigger effort.  What 100TH benefits from most is that the first production run of boards was allocated 100% to those shareholders, is already in production and will be mining well before retail product begins to ship.

This is reassuring and quite different from what we've read and been told already. I'm surprised at the mixing of 'the bigger effort' and 100th, though, but as a fixed-rate mining bond, it shouldn't affect the operation.

As my next suggestion, I would like to propose hiring someone to actually deal with market communication, and like suggested before, remove tytus' ability to manipulate the market.

I'm looking forward to the more comprehensive update.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on July 18, 2013, 11:00:20 PM
I may lose some on 100th if they f*ck it up and this wouldn't be the first time I lose BTC. This is all about controlled and distributed risk and in the end I'm quite happy with my investments, thank you.

You sound a lot like goat. How about a Bitcoin for shoving a thick something in your asshole and posting the pics? Double your bankroll or something.

Vulgarity is the weapon of the mediocre. Seems you are quite accustomed to it and still mad enough to use it.

Nothing worthwhile seems to have come out of this little jab, it didn't even manage to be fun. Seems lil' MPOE-PR can't remain long out of jail without getting into troubles. Meet my ignore-list once again little troll, I may come back to free you someday... or not.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: greaterninja on July 18, 2013, 11:18:05 PM
I am interested in buying shares.  Do i go through a trusted member or through the website?? :)

Ok back to eating my SuperStar from Carl's Jr.  :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on July 19, 2013, 01:13:27 PM
Stock can be bought at picostocks.com

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

Buy before the next announcement or kick yourself. :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 19, 2013, 02:50:19 PM
Speculation time:

The next announcement will be "we are live and hashing. Bringing on Miners 24/7. Expect first dividend within a week".

Share price will rocket past old 0.50 record in a single day and everyone will rejoice :)

Or at least so I hope since I decided not to sell the shares I own after all.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Eric Muyser on July 19, 2013, 03:34:30 PM
Stock can be bought at picostocks.com

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

Buy before the next announcement or kick yourself. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0QbXfvbjFk


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 19, 2013, 07:17:40 PM
I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on July 19, 2013, 07:45:22 PM
I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".



they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 19, 2013, 08:55:51 PM
I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".



they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc

Which is 100% fine, but I would still like to hear it from the founders.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 19, 2013, 10:19:10 PM
I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".



they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc

Which is 100% fine, but I would still like to hear it from the founders.

Heh, I was trying to convince Tytus to at least think about converting 100TH into an offering (or creating a new offering) similar to the ASICMINER model. At the moment, he is solely focused on deploying the mine, but he suggested he might (absolutely no guarantee here) be open to discussing ideas after deployment.

Perhaps we should list the pros and cons of a new/converted offering. Personally, if I were in Tytus' shoes I'd have a few questions.

It seems like Tytus is well funded, so what reasons would Tytus et al have for converting to/creating something like AM if he has to deal with a bunch of rowdy forum trolls?

Pros:
Selling shares can provide instant capital (greater than existing funding??) to expand existing operations and further advanced R&D at a faster rate.
-Existing operations would include: hardware sales, mining, development of Picostocks ...
-With the increased capital it might be feasible to jump to 28nm/22nm more quickly.
Faster wealth generation (no need to wait for mining income or sales)
...

Cons:
Maintenance/overhead needed to appease new shareholders
-More accountability
-More trolls  ::)
...


To me, the greatest benefit from "going public" would be the ability to do things faster with less capital risk -- the bitcoin hardware space is all about who can delivery first. Even though ASICMINER has a paper valuation of ~1.8M BTC, Bitfountain themselves have not sold shares at the current market price, so their income is primarily from mining and hardware sales...probably somewhere around ~12K BTC total (rough guess).

If Tytus offers a new security backed by real hashing power (100TH), it could conceivably fetch...what 50% of AM's market cap (900K BTC)? Selling only 50% of the shares would net 450K (~$45M USD) while still retaining the remaining 50%. Once 100TH comes online, I suspect there will be a dip in AM share prices and they'll be looking for a place to put that BTC.

This lets Tytus and Bitfury leapfrog ASICMINER, Avalon, and BFL.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 19, 2013, 11:51:15 PM
Vulgarity is the weapon of the mediocre.

Depends. "Vulgarity" done poorly is the common behavior of the mediocre. Vulgarity done well is the very substance of perfection, literary and intellectual. That you don't know this betrays a sore lack of education.

That aside, unwarranted stereotypy is the universal stigma of the mentally stunted.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 20, 2013, 01:55:05 PM
I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".



they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc

Which is 100% fine, but I would still like to hear it from the founders.

Heh, I was trying to convince Tytus to at least think about converting 100TH into an offering (or creating a new offering) similar to the ASICMINER model. At the moment, he is solely focused on deploying the mine, but he suggested he might (absolutely no guarantee here) be open to discussing ideas after deployment.

Perhaps we should list the pros and cons of a new/converted offering. Personally, if I were in Tytus' shoes I'd have a few questions.

It seems like Tytus is well funded, so what reasons would Tytus et al have for converting to/creating something like AM if he has to deal with a bunch of rowdy forum trolls?

Pros:
Selling shares can provide instant capital (greater than existing funding??) to expand existing operations and further advanced R&D at a faster rate.
-Existing operations would include: hardware sales, mining, development of Picostocks ...
-With the increased capital it might be feasible to jump to 28nm/22nm more quickly.
Faster wealth generation (no need to wait for mining income or sales)
...

Cons:
Maintenance/overhead needed to appease new shareholders
-More accountability
-More trolls  ::)
...


To me, the greatest benefit from "going public" would be the ability to do things faster with less capital risk -- the bitcoin hardware space is all about who can delivery first. Even though ASICMINER has a paper valuation of ~1.8M BTC, Bitfountain themselves have not sold shares at the current market price, so their income is primarily from mining and hardware sales...probably somewhere around ~12K BTC total (rough guess).

If Tytus offers a new security backed by real hashing power (100TH), it could conceivably fetch...what 50% of AM's market cap (900K BTC)? Selling only 50% of the shares would net 450K (~$45M USD) while still retaining the remaining 50%. Once 100TH comes online, I suspect there will be a dip in AM share prices and they'll be looking for a place to put that BTC.

This lets Tytus and Bitfury leapfrog ASICMINER, Avalon, and BFL.

I think the current model honestly wouldn't need much alteration or even capital to change only slightly into a more diverse investment. Say that Titus just takes a vote on a retention and growth fund of for example 25% of mining income.

Using 25% of revenue (leaving 75TH for dividends) and reinvesting this into a still early batch of the custom miners for sale on bitcointalk. This would, just like ASICMINER lay the groundwork for using accelerating dividends (from 25% reinvestment fund and hardware sales) to further develop miners, order chips and cycle the sales again, just like ASICMINER has done with blades and USB miners.

In my view, a 100TH operation that ONLY mines and pays 100% dividend, can and probably will be an amazing investment, but it IS a finite one. Meaning that when the miners become non-profitable to run (if ever, due to transaction cost income etc) the investment closes down. Wile the same investment with a reinvestment fund and hardware sales could be sustainable "forever" under the right management (see. ASICMINER business model).



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on July 20, 2013, 04:40:30 PM
He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 20, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility

True, they have (or will have) plenty of coin after their hardware sales and mining operation starts. It really depends on what their goal is...cash out and relax or spend time and energy into becoming the leading hardware player in the space. Cashing out and relaxing does have its appeal  ;D However, there is so much potential for fast growth by selling shares.


I think the current model honestly wouldn't need much alteration or even capital to change only slightly into a more diverse investment. Say that Titus just takes a vote on a retention and growth fund of for example 25% of mining income.

Using 25% of revenue (leaving 75TH for dividends) and reinvesting this into a still early batch of the custom miners for sale on bitcointalk. This would, just like ASICMINER lay the groundwork for using accelerating dividends (from 25% reinvestment fund and hardware sales) to further develop miners, order chips and cycle the sales again, just like ASICMINER has done with blades and USB miners.

In my view, a 100TH operation that ONLY mines and pays 100% dividend, can and probably will be an amazing investment, but it IS a finite one. Meaning that when the miners become non-profitable to run (if ever, due to transaction cost income etc) the investment closes down. Wile the same investment with a reinvestment fund and hardware sales could be sustainable "forever" under the right management (see. ASICMINER business model).

This would be one option, but I think it puts this operation behind others like AM, Avalon, and BFL. Initially, I think it makes much more sense to sell shares to jump start operations instead of waiting for mining revenue to come in. For example, ASICMINER has been mining for months, but their growth is limited by the rate at which they mine and sell hardware (since they have not sold shares at current market prices). As more and more competition comes into the market it gets harder and harder to maintain the same percentage of hashing power. I've no idea what AM has actually netted, but I think it's probably less than $12-20M USD in value.

In terms of converting/modifying 100TH, I think getting more ideas (like yours) from the community would help flush out what the best options are.

Obviously, one option would be to dilute existing shares and offer more shares for sale at a higher price based on modification terms (reinvestment/perpetual growth).
Another option might be for the top X shareholders to agree to sell Y % of their holdings in exchange for modification terms. (Really, 100TH is controlled by the top 5 shareholders controlling 92.6%, so it's up to them)

I'm not well versed in the intricacies of the securities world, so I'm not even aware of what kind of possibilities there are when it comes to modifying a security like we're discussing. Other ideas?



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 20, 2013, 06:45:20 PM
He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility

Considering He is still a large owner, he has everything to gain by making 100TH as successful as possible.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 20, 2013, 06:49:02 PM
He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility

True, they have (or will have) plenty of coin after their hardware sales and mining operation starts. It really depends on what their goal is...cash out and relax or spend time and energy into becoming the leading hardware player in the space. Cashing out and relaxing does have its appeal  ;D However, there is so much potential for fast growth by selling shares.


I think the current model honestly wouldn't need much alteration or even capital to change only slightly into a more diverse investment. Say that Titus just takes a vote on a retention and growth fund of for example 25% of mining income.

Using 25% of revenue (leaving 75TH for dividends) and reinvesting this into a still early batch of the custom miners for sale on bitcointalk. This would, just like ASICMINER lay the groundwork for using accelerating dividends (from 25% reinvestment fund and hardware sales) to further develop miners, order chips and cycle the sales again, just like ASICMINER has done with blades and USB miners.

In my view, a 100TH operation that ONLY mines and pays 100% dividend, can and probably will be an amazing investment, but it IS a finite one. Meaning that when the miners become non-profitable to run (if ever, due to transaction cost income etc) the investment closes down. Wile the same investment with a reinvestment fund and hardware sales could be sustainable "forever" under the right management (see. ASICMINER business model).

This would be one option, but I think it puts this operation behind others like AM, Avalon, and BFL. Initially, I think it makes much more sense to sell shares to jump start operations instead of waiting for mining revenue to come in. For example, ASICMINER has been mining for months, but their growth is limited by the rate at which they mine and sell hardware (since they have not sold shares at current market prices). As more and more competition comes into the market it gets harder and harder to maintain the same percentage of hashing power. I've no idea what AM has actually netted, but I think it's probably less than $12-20M USD in value.

In terms of converting/modifying 100TH, I think getting more ideas (like yours) from the community would help flush out what the best options are.

Obviously, one option would be to dilute existing shares and offer more shares for sale at a higher price based on modification terms (reinvestment/perpetual growth).
Another option might be for the top X shareholders to agree to sell Y % of their holdings in exchange for modification terms. (Really, 100TH is controlled by the top 5 shareholders controlling 92.6%, so it's up to them)

I'm not well versed in the intricacies of the securities world, so I'm not even aware of what kind of possibilities there are when it comes to modifying a security like we're discussing. Other ideas?



I would probably argue that if the majority owners believe in the long term value, using mining income to fund development is more attractive then diluting share holder value. Of course either could be true.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: joris on July 21, 2013, 07:30:27 AM
When 100th is fully deployed and operational, PicoStocks could just IPO the 1ph mine as a new project.

This makes a lot more sense from a commercial and managerial point of view, though the price to invest will probably be relatively higher than last January for the 100th mine. Trustworthiness has a price.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on July 22, 2013, 11:25:06 AM
The lack of response has now made me dump all my holdings and spend my BTC elsewhere. Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).

Keep in mind though, that this is just my 2 delusional cents, and I could be very wrong. For all the current shareholders I really hope I am wrong, and that tytus and the rest of the 100TH team deliver what they've been promising within a decent time frame.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on July 22, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
The lack of response has now made me dump all my holdings

Surprising, I just checked if there was a buying opportunity around 0.2 but the market depth didn't move at all.

Either you made the dump before my last checks or you didn't have much to sell.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on July 22, 2013, 12:35:23 PM
The lack of response has now made me dump all my holdings

Surprising, I just checked if there was a buying opportunity around 0.2 but the market depth didn't move at all.

Either you made the dump before my last checks or you didn't have much to sell.

I dumped my holdings some days ago but didn't write the post until now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Andrey on July 22, 2013, 12:38:25 PM
I dumped my holdings some days ago but didn't write the post until now.

Thank you, Grimholt. What sucks about 100th is that you have to wait for too long for your sell order to be fulfilled. Great people like you make the rest suffer less!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: needsmths on July 22, 2013, 06:38:57 PM
Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).

Seems like somebody knows something. Something like the difficulty is going to fall,  especially after 100Th will start to mine. Have you seen the prices, people are buying shares? I just wonder how they calculate their profit ? Can someone show me calculations, especially those who buy shares for more then 0.2 bts/share - 1 btc/Ghs.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 22, 2013, 06:49:34 PM
Why people buying ASICMINER shares @ 4.6? 95MH/s per share? When 100TH will come online it will hold 30% ofthe network. ASICMINER 10%. For some period of time 100TH will be most profitable. Even @ 0.9B/share it will deliver more profits than ASICMINER.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 22, 2013, 06:56:32 PM
Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).

Seems like somebody knows something. Something like the difficulty is going to fall,  especially after 100Th will start to mine. Have you seen the prices, people are buying shares? I just wonder how they calculate their profit ? Can someone show me calculations, especially those who buy shares for more then 0.2 bts/share - 1 btc/Ghs.

The mine is coming online in a couple of days according to the latest update from a few weeks ago. I'm guessing people interpret silence as confirmation that everything is on track.

tytus has not dumped more shares even though the current trades are above the level at which he previously allowed people to sell, so this may be interpreted as good news by the market.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on July 22, 2013, 07:07:26 PM
Why people buying ASICMINER shares @ 4.6? 95MH/s per share? When 100TH will come online it will hold 30% ofthe network. ASICMINER 10%. For some period of time 100TH will be most profitable. Even @ 0.9B/share it will deliver more profits than ASICMINER.

As time goes on 100TH share price will decrease (to zero) while the Asicminer share price will (if history holds true) increase.  You can't simply compare weekly dividends.

With 100TH you are making the bet that the total dividends will be >= the amount you pay per share.
With Asicminer you are buying into a solid long term investment that also happens to pay out ~25-30% APR in dividends.

Full disclosure... I don't hold either at the moment.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: needsmths on July 22, 2013, 07:40:10 PM
Why people buying ASICMINER shares @ 4.6? 95MH/s per share? When 100TH will come online it will hold 30% ofthe network. ASICMINER 10%. For some period of time 100TH will be most profitable. Even @ 0.9B/share it will deliver more profits than ASICMINER.

 ;D Now I understand - how people calculate profit.
Now 1 Ghs gives 0.48 btc/month. After 100Ths start to mine - difficulty will increase 1.5 times and monthly income on 1 Ghs will fall to 0.33 btc (0.066 btc/share).

With 100TH you are making the bet that the total dividends will be >= the amount you pay per share.

Yes, its simple. Just divide the price on monthly income. And monthly income will only fall every ~two weeks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 22, 2013, 10:01:21 PM
Why people buying ASICMINER shares @ 4.6? 95MH/s per share? When 100TH will come online it will hold 30% ofthe network. ASICMINER 10%. For some period of time 100TH will be most profitable. Even @ 0.9B/share it will deliver more profits than ASICMINER.

 ;D Now I understand - how people calculate profit.
Now 1 Ghs gives 0.48 btc/month. After 100Ths start to mine - difficulty will increase 1.5 times and monthly income on 1 Ghs will fall to 0.33 btc (0.066 btc/share).

With 100TH you are making the bet that the total dividends will be >= the amount you pay per share.

Yes, its simple. Just divide the price on monthly income. And monthly income will only fall every ~two weeks.

Anyone with half a brain has already calculated this. At current diff increase 100TH will still produce something like 600% ROI in 20 months. As long as they get at least 70TH online within a month.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: grimholt on July 22, 2013, 10:57:34 PM
Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).

Seems like somebody knows something. Something like the difficulty is going to fall,  especially after 100Th will start to mine. Have you seen the prices, people are buying shares? I just wonder how they calculate their profit ? Can someone show me calculations, especially those who buy shares for more then 0.2 bts/share - 1 btc/Ghs.

The mine is coming online in a couple of days according to the latest update from a few weeks ago. I'm guessing people interpret silence as confirmation that everything is on track.

tytus has not dumped more shares even though the current trades are above the level at which he previously allowed people to sell, so this may be interpreted as good news by the market.

.b

As I stated in my post it's just speculation, and for the remaining shareholders I really hope I am wrong. There are always different ways to interpret things, but for me the lack of response is very little reassuring as to how things are going.

I've been watching tytus' profile (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=56286), and he's usually active every day. From his profile at the time of writing this: Last Active:   Today at 04:44:36 PM.

I'm sure he pays attention to his own thread, and I'm also sure he knows something about the PCB assembly progress. It's my opinion that the shareholders, the people that actually made the project possible, deserve to be let in on this information. As he's in here every day, all he would have to do is let us know if we are on route or if we will have an unkown amount of extended delay.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 23, 2013, 12:33:27 AM
Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).

Seems like somebody knows something. Something like the difficulty is going to fall,  especially after 100Th will start to mine. Have you seen the prices, people are buying shares? I just wonder how they calculate their profit ? Can someone show me calculations, especially those who buy shares for more then 0.2 bts/share - 1 btc/Ghs.

The mine is coming online in a couple of days according to the latest update from a few weeks ago. I'm guessing people interpret silence as confirmation that everything is on track.

tytus has not dumped more shares even though the current trades are above the level at which he previously allowed people to sell, so this may be interpreted as good news by the market.

.b

As I stated in my post it's just speculation, and for the remaining shareholders I really hope I am wrong. There are always different ways to interpret things, but for me the lack of response is very little reassuring as to how things are going.

I've been watching tytus' profile (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=56286), and he's usually active every day. From his profile at the time of writing this: Last Active:   Today at 04:44:36 PM.

I'm sure he pays attention to his own thread, and I'm also sure he knows something about the PCB assembly progress. It's my opinion that the shareholders, the people that actually made the project possible, deserve to be let in on this information. As he's in here every day, all he would have to do is let us know if we are on route or if we will have an unkown amount of extended delay.

Tytus is hammering away at code to optimize the 16x card rig.  The proto is hashing (probably into 100TH already).  Pick and place has already begun on the main production batch, so we are waiting to hear about batched shipments.  I still estimate at least 10 - 12 business days before I start to see hardware landing over here.  I will do the best I can to fire up hardware as fast as it comes in.  AC and electrical should all be in place in time, but if the PUD drags their feet, I may have a (brief) outage before we are firing on all cylinders.  Hardware will come in daily expedited shipments.

Tytus had mentioned wanting the next update to include pics/video of units hashing, etc, but that will have to be maybe the next update...

Cheers,
Dave


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 23, 2013, 12:36:15 AM
I still estimate at least 10 - 12 business days before I start to see hardware landing over here. 

I think this is good news, but I just have to get a cheap point in because someone else will in either case:

So, you're ready in two weeks, eh?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 23, 2013, 05:56:36 AM
I still estimate at least 10 - 12 business days before I start to see hardware landing over here. 

I think this is good news, but I just have to get a cheap point in because someone else will in either case:

So, you're ready in two weeks, eh?

.b

We're working real hard over here, yes.  Trying to land a 1 year project on the 'X' is not an insignificant undertaking.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: qukkM on July 23, 2013, 11:31:13 AM
I think it was more like a joke about BFL shipping promises


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 23, 2013, 02:51:50 PM
I still estimate at least 10 - 12 business days before I start to see hardware landing over here. 

I think this is good news, but I just have to get a cheap point in because someone else will in either case:

So, you're ready in two weeks, eh?

.b

We're working real hard over here, yes.  Trying to land a 1 year project on the 'X' is not an insignificant undertaking.

Well you DO technically have about 11 months left to beat BFL :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 23, 2013, 08:24:59 PM
I've no idea what AM has actually netted, but I think it's probably less than $12-20M USD in value.

Seems like I was in the right range.  ;D

Update

Financial Status

Mining Income: 102,041.82BTC
Blade Sales Income: 29,594.75BTC
USB Sales Income: 37,524.00BTC
Total: 169,520.57BTC

Device and Infrastructure Expense: 397,800.00$ + 4,909,930.00¥
Electricity Expense: 729,542.05¥
Labor Expense: 327,081.00¥
Logistics Expense: 132,184.90¥
Deposits: 117,506.01¥
Total: 397,800.00$+6,216,243.96¥

Balance Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1fvFT7Sd5bdEthNEpIWWxpcW90RFBQOFZ6aFlxT0E&usp=sharing

Hardware Franchising

This is a new business model option besides self-mining and hardware sales. We will rent the excessive hashing power to financial and technical capable people, accepting full deposits at the market price, shipping the devices and collecting a certain PPS rate based on the theoretical hashrate. The PPS rate, the dividing of cost coverage, as well as warranty/exit strategy are being discussed in detail and executed as small-scale experiments.

This model is similar to hardware sales in the aspect that we do not have in control on how the users make use of our devices, therefore has more decentralization in spirit. And like with self-mining, it aims at settings in scale, enjoying the reduction of NRE cost and operating cost overall, and reducing potential marketing/advertisement/customer service costs.

Project Timeline

August-September: Deploy/sell all hashpower arriving in July and early August.
September-November: Deploy/sell the hashpower ordered at early July.
November-December: Experimental products of 2nd-gen chips and modular large-scale deployment solutions.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 23, 2013, 10:32:25 PM
I still estimate at least 10 - 12 business days before I start to see hardware landing over here. 

I think this is good news, but I just have to get a cheap point in because someone else will in either case:

So, you're ready in two weeks, eh?

.b

We're working real hard over here, yes.  Trying to land a 1 year project on the 'X' is not an insignificant undertaking.

You need to dust off the bAsic script. Simply copy/pasting nonsense from last year's iteration of the "failed project" scam to this year's iteration of the "failed project" scam doesn't really cut it. (Not in the sense that there aren't a bunch of last month's crop of noobs to not know any better and post their "opinions" on the matter, obviously.)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: hawkingchen on July 25, 2013, 09:57:05 AM
Any news about the progress? 7-25 comes. ???


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 25, 2013, 12:40:44 PM
You need to dust off the bAsic script. Simply copy/pasting nonsense from last year's iteration of the "failed project" scam to this year's iteration of the "failed project" scam doesn't really cut it. (Not in the sense that there aren't a bunch of last month's crop of noobs to not know any better and post their "opinions" on the matter, obviously.)

"either you're doing something or you're shutting the fuck up"


you really love to troll, I think your on a troll roll.
 http://carryingthegun.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/personal_trollface_hd.png

Buzzscammer needs better socks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 25, 2013, 12:45:34 PM
I still estimate at least 10 - 12 business days before I start to see hardware landing over here. 

I think this is good news, but I just have to get a cheap point in because someone else will in either case:

So, you're ready in two weeks, eh?

.b

We're working real hard over here, yes.  Trying to land a 1 year project on the 'X' is not an insignificant undertaking.

Well you DO technically have about 11 months left to beat BFL :)

So you're the March 2013 edition of boonies4u&co. That's fine, some learn from the experience of others, some learn from their own experience. Either way, same result.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 25, 2013, 05:14:27 PM
Any news about the progress? 7-25 comes. ???

Boards in are production and will be sent expedited.  I don't know yet what the estimated delivery day is, but this is a high volume fab, so it shouldn't take very long to start seeing batches coming off the line.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on July 25, 2013, 06:47:53 PM
You need to dust off the bAsic script. Simply copy/pasting nonsense from last year's iteration of the "failed project" scam to this year's iteration of the "failed project" scam doesn't really cut it. (Not in the sense that there aren't a bunch of last month's crop of noobs to not know any better and post their "opinions" on the matter, obviously.)

"either you're doing something or you're shutting the fuck up"


you really love to troll, I think your on a troll roll.
 http://carryingthegun.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/personal_trollface_hd.png

Buzzscammer needs better socks.


WTF Are you doing here? I don't know you, you don't know me. Your posts reek of intelligence, if not charm and sophistication. You are the Official PR representative for a cryptic website that deals in equally obscure instruments. Why are you trolling this thread? Is this part of your official duties? Or are you just hazing the competition? Either way, your tone and attitude reflect badly on your person.
You accuse me of being a sock puppet oh, self confessed sock puppet.

I assume you are just trying to skim some of the buzz.
Too bad you are a wasp and not a honey bee.


 


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 25, 2013, 07:45:08 PM
You need to dust off the bAsic script. Simply copy/pasting nonsense from last year's iteration of the "failed project" scam to this year's iteration of the "failed project" scam doesn't really cut it. (Not in the sense that there aren't a bunch of last month's crop of noobs to not know any better and post their "opinions" on the matter, obviously.)

"either you're doing something or you're shutting the fuck up"


you really love to troll, I think your on a troll roll.
 http://carryingthegun.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/personal_trollface_hd.png

Buzzscammer needs better socks.


WTF Are you doing here? I don't know you, you don't know me. Your posts reek of intelligence, if not charm and sophistication. You are the Official PR representative for a cryptic website that deals in equally obscure instruments. Why are you trolling this thread? Is this part of your official duties? Or are you just hazing the competition? Either way, your tone and attitude reflect badly on your person.
You accuse me of being a sock puppet oh, self confessed sock puppet.

I assume you are just trying to skim some of the buzz.
Too bad you are a wasp and not a honey bee.


 

Why even reply to MPOE-PR? His exchange is flailing and he is pretty much nothing but a self confessed douchebag and thread troll at this point.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: sunniestsolomin on July 25, 2013, 09:13:57 PM
You need to dust off the bAsic script. Simply copy/pasting nonsense from last year's iteration of the "failed project" scam to this year's iteration of the "failed project" scam doesn't really cut it. (Not in the sense that there aren't a bunch of last month's crop of noobs to not know any better and post their "opinions" on the matter, obviously.)

"either you're doing something or you're shutting the fuck up"


you really love to troll, I think your on a troll roll.
 http://carryingthegun.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/personal_trollface_hd.png

Buzzscammer needs better socks.

Name one person that didn't get their full amount back from bASIC.

So, now that you can't name anyone, stop saying bASIC was a scam. It was a failed project that went under.  





Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 25, 2013, 10:32:00 PM
Name one person that didn't get their full amount back from bASIC.

So, now that you can't name anyone, stop saying bASIC was a scam. It was a failed project that went under.  

No, it's not.

It was a scam that humiliated a bunch of idiots, who now rather than accept they were fucked prefer to pretend like it was "a project that went under", because that way they don't have to consider what's wrong with their heads (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg2803420#msg2803420), which is too painful. The fact that a bunch of fraudsters like the picostocks tytus guy also had imaginary millions invested there, for the imaginary loss of which they have been taken to task (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1495160#msg1495160) just slants this nonsense even further.

Moral of the story: you don't get out of scams by getting the victims to keep quiet.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 25, 2013, 11:24:42 PM
Quote
Name one person that didn't get their full amount back from bASIC.

Tytus.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: sunniestsolomin on July 26, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
Quote
Name one person that didn't get their full amount back from bASIC.

Tytus.

Ahhh yes, but wasn't he an investor and not customer?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 26, 2013, 04:14:09 PM
Name one person that didn't get their full amount back from bASIC.

So, now that you can't name anyone, stop saying bASIC was a scam. It was a failed project that went under.  

No, it's not.

It was a scam that humiliated a bunch of idiots, who now rather than accept they were fucked prefer to pretend like it was "a project that went under", because that way they don't have to consider what's wrong with their heads (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.msg2803420#msg2803420), which is too painful. The fact that a bunch of fraudsters like the picostocks tytus guy also had imaginary millions invested there, for the imaginary loss of which they have been taken to task (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1495160#msg1495160) just slants this nonsense even further.

Moral of the story: you don't get out of scams by getting the victims to keep quiet.

I love how you 'prove' your point by referring to other threads where you whine like a girl and just speculate wildly. So sad..


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 26, 2013, 04:23:06 PM
Quote
Name one person that didn't get their full amount back from bASIC.

Tytus.

Ahhh yes, but wasn't he an investor and not customer?

Tytus was really just a big customer - prepaid a substantial sum in order to help the project.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 26, 2013, 04:56:41 PM
In investments it's not about how you handle falling down, it's about how you get back up.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 26, 2013, 08:05:02 PM
In investments it's not about how you handle falling down, it's about how you get back up.

Considering I brought Tytus into that deal, life is full of ironies...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 26, 2013, 11:32:10 PM
I'm excited to announce the first 100TH hashpower is online.  Tytus has his test rig running into the mine now, and has officially kicked off the ASIC mining season for 100TH!

Tytus has a four card prototype running at 104Gh/s.  I'm waiting for stats on the production run of boards.  We should be well into the H-boards by now, having run the M's first.  We actually expect they are probably all done, but communication is a bit slow.

The AC is about 80% installed as of today, with finish work on Monday.  Electrician will come in and hook it all up so we can test next week.  With 28 ton of AC and over 9000CFM, we hope to have plenty of airflow to keep things running at optimum rates...

Since 100TH automatically disburses BTC as it comes in, you should begin to see small deposits on your pico accounts.  Over the next 10 days or so, we should be making that number grow!


Cheers,
Dave


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 26, 2013, 11:38:55 PM
AWESOME! Congrats, everyone!


That's a nice surprise that dividends are linked in psdeuo-realtime.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dmcdad on July 27, 2013, 02:37:36 AM
Hi Dave,

That is quite impressive -- congrats to the team.

Would it be possible to post a photo of test rig, and a few photos of the hosting facility finish-out progress? I realize the latter isn't done, but would still love to see the progress. Thanks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 27, 2013, 03:14:05 AM
I'm excited to announce the first 100TH hashpower is online.  Tytus has his test rig running into the mine now, and has officially kicked off the ASIC mining season for 100TH!

Tytus has a four card prototype running at 104Gh/s.  I'm waiting for stats on the production run of boards.  We should be well into the H-boards by now, having run the M's first.  We actually expect they are probably all done, but communication is a bit slow.

The AC is about 80% installed as of today, with finish work on Monday.  Electrician will come in and hook it all up so we can test next week.  With 28 ton of AC and over 9000CFM, we hope to have plenty of airflow to keep things running at optimum rates...

Since 100TH automatically disburses BTC as it comes in, you should begin to see small deposits on your pico accounts.  Over the next 10 days or so, we should be making that number grow!


Cheers,
Dave

Very good news, Dave.

To maintain the attitude... You said it would be two weeks. It hasn't been two weeks yet! You guys never keep your promises!

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 27, 2013, 03:51:52 AM
Hi Dave,

That is quite impressive -- congrats to the team.

Would it be possible to post a photo of test rig, and a few photos of the hosting facility finish-out progress? I realize the latter isn't done, but would still love to see the progress. Thanks.

I've been pestering them for pics (so has Niko), but they have been in heads-down engineering mode.  I expect something on that very soon.  As to pictures of the datacenter - I'm still feeling strongly that any pictures I provide or details about what is installed there serve to reduce security.  At this time I can't do it...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on July 27, 2013, 04:28:17 AM
wow,what a good job. no more delay.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 27, 2013, 04:34:15 AM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on July 27, 2013, 04:57:45 AM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

i agree ,pictures will be the only thing we care.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: servicelabs on July 27, 2013, 06:46:16 AM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

i agree ,pictures will be the only thing we care.
+1


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Sou on July 27, 2013, 07:05:24 AM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

i agree ,pictures will be the only thing we care.

+1


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 27, 2013, 09:53:47 AM
Superb !
1/1000 online let's wait for another 999/1000 ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: helloge on July 27, 2013, 12:42:57 PM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

i agree ,pictures will be the only thing we care.

+1

+1


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: onecent on July 27, 2013, 01:40:10 PM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

i agree ,pictures will be the only thing we care.

+1

+1

+1


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 27, 2013, 03:14:04 PM
Superb !
1/1000 online let's wait for another 999/1000 ;)

First rig is obviously for tweaking/testing purposes. Once the rest comes in, it's just down to plugging them in, configuring the cluster and BAM.. Hashing like a boss!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on July 27, 2013, 03:14:36 PM
About to pass 0.50 BTC :) Good times... wish I would have had time to purchase more at 0.30 :(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: oxfeeefeee on July 27, 2013, 04:42:58 PM
Just received dividends of 0.00000978 per share!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 27, 2013, 04:53:31 PM
Wow, that was fast....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 27, 2013, 06:03:44 PM
Pics just posted:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg2815244#msg2815244 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg2815244#msg2815244)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on July 27, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
I see dividends too!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on July 27, 2013, 08:21:09 PM
Oh, Thank You, thank you, thank you.


x1000 and it will be all smiles around my house.


poor trolls.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mabsark on July 27, 2013, 10:23:40 PM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

If 1 share still represents 200 Mh/s then 1 BTC per share would be terrible value. You can get 200 Mh/s for 0.5379816 BTC right now from DMS.MINING and that price will get lower with every difficulty increase, just as these shares will. Why are you expecting the price to increase as value decreases? Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it did hit 1 BTC per share because there's a lot of stupid people around who just seem to throw BTC at anything without doing any research or maths.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 27, 2013, 10:26:26 PM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

If 1 share still represents 200 Mh/s then 1 BTC per share would be terrible value. You can get 200 Mh/s for 0.5379816 BTC right now from DMS.MINING and that price will get lower with every difficulty increase, just as these shares will. Why are you expecting the price to increase as value decreases? Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it did hit 1 BTC per share because there's a lot of stupid people around who just seem to throw BTC at anything without doing any research or maths.

Yeah, except DMS.Mining isn't a mining asset and won't work like one unless you're continuously losing money. A better comparison would be TAT.VM or my own BFMines.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mabsark on July 27, 2013, 10:38:54 PM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

If 1 share still represents 200 Mh/s then 1 BTC per share would be terrible value. You can get 200 Mh/s for 0.5379816 BTC right now from DMS.MINING and that price will get lower with every difficulty increase, just as these shares will. Why are you expecting the price to increase as value decreases? Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it did hit 1 BTC per share because there's a lot of stupid people around who just seem to throw BTC at anything without doing any research or maths.

Yeah, except DMS.Mining isn't a mining asset and won't work like one unless you're continuously losing money. A better comparison would be TAT.VM or my own BFMines.

.b

Who cares whether it's actually a mining asset or not, when it pays the same as one?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 27, 2013, 10:41:59 PM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

If 1 share still represents 200 Mh/s then 1 BTC per share would be terrible value. You can get 200 Mh/s for 0.5379816 BTC right now from DMS.MINING and that price will get lower with every difficulty increase, just as these shares will. Why are you expecting the price to increase as value decreases? Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it did hit 1 BTC per share because there's a lot of stupid people around who just seem to throw BTC at anything without doing any research or maths.

Yeah, except DMS.Mining isn't a mining asset and won't work like one unless you're continuously losing money. A better comparison would be TAT.VM or my own BFMines.

.b

Who cares whether it's actually a mining asset or not, when it pays the same as one?

It doesn't, like I said. It pays only like one as long as difficulty skyrockets. If the rise goes down or even falls, DMS.Mining won't behave like anything mining related and will be a guaranteed loss, unlike a mining asset.

I've written more about it here:

http://coin.furuknap.net/understanding-dms/

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mabsark on July 27, 2013, 10:58:14 PM
Pictures + hash-rate proof when rigs go online in numbers = 1 BTC/share

If 1 share still represents 200 Mh/s then 1 BTC per share would be terrible value. You can get 200 Mh/s for 0.5379816 BTC right now from DMS.MINING and that price will get lower with every difficulty increase, just as these shares will. Why are you expecting the price to increase as value decreases? Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it did hit 1 BTC per share because there's a lot of stupid people around who just seem to throw BTC at anything without doing any research or maths.

Yeah, except DMS.Mining isn't a mining asset and won't work like one unless you're continuously losing money. A better comparison would be TAT.VM or my own BFMines.

.b

Who cares whether it's actually a mining asset or not, when it pays the same as one?

It doesn't, like I said. It pays only like one as long as difficulty skyrockets. If the rise goes down or even falls, DMS.Mining won't behave like anything mining related and will be a guaranteed loss, unlike a mining asset.

I've written more about it here:

http://coin.furuknap.net/understanding-dms/

.b

Difficulty doesn't need to "skyrocket", it needs to increase by a couple of percent, which it will continue to do so for quite a while. By the time DMS closes, 200 Mh/s will be like mining with a CPU today - completely pointless.

You keep saying that and keep getting slapped down by Deprived.

Difficulty increase slowed from about 28% to about 10% a month ago then went up to 23%. DMS.MINING behaved exactly the same, proving that what you are saying is simply wrong.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 27, 2013, 11:03:52 PM
It doesn't, like I said. It pays only like one as long as difficulty skyrockets. If the rise goes down or even falls, DMS.Mining won't behave like anything mining related and will be a guaranteed loss, unlike a mining asset.

I've written more about it here:

http://coin.furuknap.net/understanding-dms/

.b

Difficulty doesn't need to "skyrocket", it needs to increase by a couple of percent, which it will continue to do so for quite a while. By the time DMS closes, 200 Mh/s will be like mining with a CPU today - completely pointless.

You keep saying that and keep getting slapped down by Deprived.

Difficulty increase slowed from about 28% to about 10% a month ago then went up to 23%. DMS.MINING behaved exactly the same, proving that what you are saying is simply wrong.

If difficulty slowed down to increasing just a couple of percent, prices on mining assets would skyrocket instead, but DMS.Mining would stop quickly and not rise in price.

If you believe I'm wrong, put your money where your mouth is. Buying DMS.Mining now would be a steal when you see that comparable outputs go for two and three times as much. You'll make a killing if you're right in that they will work the same. There's easy money there, no need to give it away by spilling your knowledge.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mabsark on July 27, 2013, 11:26:45 PM
It doesn't, like I said. It pays only like one as long as difficulty skyrockets. If the rise goes down or even falls, DMS.Mining won't behave like anything mining related and will be a guaranteed loss, unlike a mining asset.

I've written more about it here:

http://coin.furuknap.net/understanding-dms/

.b

Difficulty doesn't need to "skyrocket", it needs to increase by a couple of percent, which it will continue to do so for quite a while. By the time DMS closes, 200 Mh/s will be like mining with a CPU today - completely pointless.

You keep saying that and keep getting slapped down by Deprived.

Difficulty increase slowed from about 28% to about 10% a month ago then went up to 23%. DMS.MINING behaved exactly the same, proving that what you are saying is simply wrong.

If difficulty slowed down to increasing just a couple of percent, prices on mining assets would skyrocket instead, but DMS.Mining would stop quickly and not rise in price.

If you believe I'm wrong, put your money where your mouth is. Buying DMS.Mining now would be a steal when you see that comparable outputs go for two and three times as much. You'll make a killing if you're right in that they will work the same. There's easy money there, no need to give it away by spilling your knowledge.

.b

Why do you think a mining asset which provides a fixed hash rate would "skyrocket" with a small difficulty increase? Any difficulty increase at all means less income from the asset, therefore it's value decreases. That's just simple logic. If the share price increased due to a decrease in value, then that just proves my point that there are a lot of stupid people throwing money at stuff without doing the maths or any research. Logically, a decrease in value should result in a corresponding decrease in share price.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 27, 2013, 11:44:53 PM
Why do you think a mining asset which provides a fixed hash rate would "skyrocket" with a small difficulty increase? Any difficulty increase at all means less income from the asset, therefore it's value decreases. That's just simple logic. If the share price increased due to a decrease in value, then that just proves my point that there are a lot of stupid people throwing money at stuff without doing the maths or any research. Logically, a decrease in value should result in a corresponding decrease in share price.

Right now, 200mhs at 0.4 gets you 200+% interest per year. If difficulty increased only by 5-10% per month, that would mean that in a year, the profit would still be in the 100-150% per year range.

Microsoft currently stands at around 3% per year. NASDAQ composite stands at somewhere between 4-7% per year. Something paying 25 times that would skyrocket over night.

You're forgetting that the market has already priced in the upcoming difficulty changes. Because of the fear that this will go on perpetually, the prices drop like rocks. However, if that doesn't happen (and there are already signs it may slow down when you see the skepticism about any mining investments these days) then profitability for these assets will be so high that they comparable prices would go through the roof. Megabigpower is struggling to sell out their 400 available October 400gh/s miners, and even if they sold all those today and had them in operation tomorrow, accounting for 100th, that would only keep the momentum of the current growth up for another month.

If difficulty completely stoppped today, any currently available mining asset that would survive more than 3 years would probably rise to 10-15 times its current price overnight. You'd still get your money back and beat most Wall Street investment funds by 200%.

If you need evidence of this, look at ASICMiner, where the market expects them to maintain their relative hash power for a long time. Right now, the market is paying 10x per hash of what they are paying for fixed-rate assets like 100TH, TAT.VM, and BFMines (ASICMiner now costs just over 10BTC for 200mhs). The market has no fear of difficulty increases becaus ASICMiner can grow. However, if difficulty stopped rising, the effect would be the same as if they rose perpetually because they would maintain, like ASICMiner is expected, their relative hash rate.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mabsark on July 28, 2013, 01:42:52 AM
Why do you think a mining asset which provides a fixed hash rate would "skyrocket" with a small difficulty increase? Any difficulty increase at all means less income from the asset, therefore it's value decreases. That's just simple logic. If the share price increased due to a decrease in value, then that just proves my point that there are a lot of stupid people throwing money at stuff without doing the maths or any research. Logically, a decrease in value should result in a corresponding decrease in share price.

Right now, 200mhs at 0.4 gets you 200+% interest per year. If difficulty increased only by 5-10% per month, that would mean that in a year, the profit would still be in the 100-150% per year range.

Microsoft currently stands at around 3% per year. NASDAQ composite stands at somewhere between 4-7% per year. Something paying 25 times that would skyrocket over night.

You're forgetting that the market has already priced in the upcoming difficulty changes. Because of the fear that this will go on perpetually, the prices drop like rocks. However, if that doesn't happen (and there are already signs it may slow down when you see the skepticism about any mining investments these days) then profitability for these assets will be so high that they comparable prices would go through the roof. Megabigpower is struggling to sell out their 400 available October 400gh/s miners, and even if they sold all those today and had them in operation tomorrow, accounting for 100th, that would only keep the momentum of the current growth up for another month.

If difficulty completely stoppped today, any currently available mining asset that would survive more than 3 years would probably rise to 10-15 times its current price overnight. You'd still get your money back and beat most Wall Street investment funds by 200%.

If you need evidence of this, look at ASICMiner, where the market expects them to maintain their relative hash power for a long time. Right now, the market is paying 10x per hash of what they are paying for fixed-rate assets like 100TH, TAT.VM, and BFMines (ASICMiner now costs just over 10BTC for 200mhs). The market has no fear of difficulty increases becaus ASICMiner can grow. However, if difficulty stopped rising, the effect would be the same as if they rose perpetually because they would maintain, like ASICMiner is expected, their relative hash rate.

.b

Difficulty increases of 5-10% per month are completely unrealistic for at least the next few months. It's increasing by around 10-20% each round. In the coming months, we'll see BitFury, KnC, Active Mining, HashFast and BTCMAN all entering the market. We're not going to be seeing 5% increases per round any time soon, never mind per month.

Just look at your asset, BFMines. The bids are at 3/4 of your IPO price and you haven't even sold 2/5 of your shares yet. By the time you get your miner, you won't have sold any more shares and the bids will be less than half the IPO price. Your investors are already losing 25% and they haven't even seen 1 Satoshi yet.

Look at TAT.VM, currently trading at less than half the price of it's IPO.

To claim that share prices for such assets will "skyrocket" with small percentage difficulty increase just proves you don't know what you are talking about or are just blatantly telling lies. Difficulty will have to "skyrocket" in order to see such small percentage increases and in that case, all these fixed hash rate assets will become basically worthless.

It's a simple and obvious fact that fixed hash rate mining assets will lose value over time because with all the hashing power set to come online, difficulty is only going to increase. If the share price does not drop accordingly, then people are just being stupid and paying too much.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 28, 2013, 05:38:02 AM
It's a simple and obvious fact that fixed hash rate mining assets will lose value over time because with all the hashing power set to come online, difficulty is only going to increase. If the share price does not drop accordingly, then people are just being stupid and paying too much.

You... didn't really understand anything of what I just said, did you?

That's fine, I'm sure you're good at painting or herding cows or something else.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dhenson on July 28, 2013, 06:34:14 AM
It's a simple and obvious fact that fixed hash rate mining assets will lose value over time because with all the hashing power set to come online, difficulty is only going to increase. If the share price does not drop accordingly, then people are just being stupid and paying too much.

You... didn't really understand anything of what I just said, did you?

That's fine, I'm sure you're good at painting or herding cows or something else.

.b

Normally your on point furuknap, but I think you are a little blinded by your interests on this point.  PMB's are a loser and the only reason you are defending them is because you are selling one.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mabsark on July 28, 2013, 07:14:29 AM
It's a simple and obvious fact that fixed hash rate mining assets will lose value over time because with all the hashing power set to come online, difficulty is only going to increase. If the share price does not drop accordingly, then people are just being stupid and paying too much.

You... didn't really understand anything of what I just said, did you?

That's fine, I'm sure you're good at painting or herding cows or something else.

.b

I understood what you said perfectly fine. It is you that does not understand (or perhaps you do but have ulterior motives) which is evident from the completely unrealistic scenarios you keep painting in order to lend credence to your argument and your asset.

You've been told this dozens of times now by numerous people.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 28, 2013, 09:35:02 AM
Since 100TH automatically disburses BTC as it comes in, you should begin to see small deposits on your pico accounts.

This and solo mining makes this asset very different from others. In luck strikes you may see 4-5 times more dividends that you can invest immedietly. That may be a reason why this asset wiil be worth more...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on July 28, 2013, 10:04:11 AM
100TH has only 104G onw , i wanna know when it will be deploy  100th completely .september?october? or even longer??


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 28, 2013, 10:06:16 AM
100TH has only 104G onw , i wanna know when it will be deploy  100th completely .september?october? or even longer??
Next two weeks tops (it's my guess). Hardware is almost finished (Dave recived some already) and have to be delivered to datacenter.

EDIT:
In all that mess and excitment we just missed report :)
https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19

We expect mining hardware to arrive at the data center next week. We are finalizing the preparation of the power supply, internet communication and device management. We are also validating the dividend distribution process. We have connected a very small demo device with only 4-hcards to a mining pool. The revenues from the mining pool will be sent to the asset's dividend account (19t7RxwXdfiwQMyQ3JVB16e9HgV7omijSs) and distributed automatically. We plan later to pay dividend immediately after mining a block (after default 100 confirmations).
Created on 2013-07-27 15:05:00 by Leszek Rychlewski; Published on 2013-07-27 15:11:01 by koji;


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 28, 2013, 11:29:00 AM
100 confirmations means predictable incomes in next ~16hours. Nice...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: circuitry on July 28, 2013, 01:26:33 PM
In all that mess and excitment we just missed report :)
https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19

As a suggestion for future updates, it would be easier to notice in the asset page if the title of the post was not the same as the previous one :D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on July 28, 2013, 03:12:57 PM
100 confirmations means predictable incomes in next ~16hours. Nice...

"We plan later"


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 28, 2013, 11:34:22 PM
If 1 share still represents 200 Mh/s then 1 BTC per share would be terrible value. You can get 200 Mh/s for 0.5379816 BTC right now from DMS.MINING and that price will get lower with every difficulty increase, just as these shares will. Why are you expecting the price to increase as value decreases? Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if it did hit 1 BTC per share because there's a lot of stupid people around who just seem to throw BTC at anything without doing any research or maths.

Why are you such a hater.

Meanwhile the nethash is still ~270.8 Th/s. I guess these brave folks managed to find a way to add 100 Th on a different network. Teh powar of imagination an' all.

So what's the plan here scamtroop, gonna run a Giga? Pay out 20-30% over about a year in .x% weekly increments' worth of fictitious "dividends" and then "have problems"?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 29, 2013, 08:07:43 AM
Another small dividends... Looks like paying scrypt is working hard ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: oxfeeefeee on July 29, 2013, 08:20:03 AM
Another small dividends... Looks like paying scrypt is working hard ;)
0.00000053 ... I heard it saying "testing"


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: stormos on July 29, 2013, 01:01:43 PM
Is there a way to transfer 100TH's shares between picostocks users besides buying and selling?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 29, 2013, 01:08:06 PM
Why do you think a mining asset which provides a fixed hash rate would "skyrocket" with a small difficulty increase? Any difficulty increase at all means less income from the asset, therefore it's value decreases. That's just simple logic. If the share price increased due to a decrease in value, then that just proves my point that there are a lot of stupid people throwing money at stuff without doing the maths or any research. Logically, a decrease in value should result in a corresponding decrease in share price.

Right now, 200mhs at 0.4 gets you 200+% interest per year. If difficulty increased only by 5-10% per month, that would mean that in a year, the profit would still be in the 100-150% per year range.

Microsoft currently stands at around 3% per year. NASDAQ composite stands at somewhere between 4-7% per year. Something paying 25 times that would skyrocket over night.

You're forgetting that the market has already priced in the upcoming difficulty changes. Because of the fear that this will go on perpetually, the prices drop like rocks. However, if that doesn't happen (and there are already signs it may slow down when you see the skepticism about any mining investments these days) then profitability for these assets will be so high that they comparable prices would go through the roof. Megabigpower is struggling to sell out their 400 available October 400gh/s miners, and even if they sold all those today and had them in operation tomorrow, accounting for 100th, that would only keep the momentum of the current growth up for another month.

If difficulty completely stoppped today, any currently available mining asset that would survive more than 3 years would probably rise to 10-15 times its current price overnight. You'd still get your money back and beat most Wall Street investment funds by 200%.

If you need evidence of this, look at ASICMiner, where the market expects them to maintain their relative hash power for a long time. Right now, the market is paying 10x per hash of what they are paying for fixed-rate assets like 100TH, TAT.VM, and BFMines (ASICMiner now costs just over 10BTC for 200mhs). The market has no fear of difficulty increases becaus ASICMiner can grow. However, if difficulty stopped rising, the effect would be the same as if they rose perpetually because they would maintain, like ASICMiner is expected, their relative hash rate.

.b

Your an idiot. Your maths is wrong and so are your reasons. For starters 5-10% per month is far to low. The supplier your getting hardware from for BFmines is going to produce at least the 100th required for this before your measly 120ghs. So already thats a 35% increase or decrease of BFmines profitability, before you even get your hardware. And also if we where to use your false figures of 10% per month, the first month is 10% of the base number but months after this it would no longer be a straight line calc. 2nd month it would be 11% of base month. 3rd would be 12.1% ect. Ect. But a true figure would be more along the lines of 30%+ per month for at least 6months.
But even then based on your figures of 10% per month profitability of BFmines will be at 50% before november to what they could be now (if you where hashing) then in a year based on your stupid figures would be 25% of what they are now.
Onto the next stupid statment that only a 10year old could come up with. Comparing BFmines to Microsoft,  for this to be true BFmines would need to spend money on research and development,  but you don't, you will never increase the rate you are trying to sell now. Or on the otherside it would be like Microsoft only selling windows 95 now, and will continue only to ever sell windows 95.
As for your dumb comparison with BFmines to AM, people are willing to pay more as they offer development and profits from sales, yeah you get 30% pa but thats due to market share. You say on one hand global hash rate will only increase 10% per month but on the other you say AM wont be able to keep up with the increasr in hash rate. So which is it? Will AM not be able to keep pace ehich would put BFmines value to 0 or is it hash rate will not increase by much?
Take a look at what's on order atm, knc 500th bfl about the same, 100 of thousands of avalon chips,  Activemining gear, AM blades Bitfury and all the others.
even if these companies cant get the orders ready by end of the year and only if bitfury is the only one that delivers anything in the next 6 months, BFmines will be at least 50% less profitable, BFmines will never make your investors money back, I am willing to bet that, they will never gain more in dividends before you close up due to non-profitability.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on July 29, 2013, 02:35:15 PM
Your an idiot.

Always a winner.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 29, 2013, 08:14:12 PM

:-)

As for the rest of Redmetal's arguments, I've tried to get him to learn reading for a long time but he seems incapable of grasping anything that doesn't use simple pictures and preferably not too many of them. If he ever gets to a point where he actually comprehends basic language, I'll try to introduce argumentation concepts like strawman arguments into his understanding so that he doesn't do them with virtually every sentence he utters.

I'm not hopeful, though.

Needless to say, every argument he makes here (and elsewhere) has been refuted numerous times and are based on facts he seems to invent as it pleases his arguments. They all also apply to 100TH so that is, I'm assuming, why he feels it necessary to repeat them here.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 29, 2013, 09:28:11 PM

:-)

As for the rest of Redmetal's arguments, I've tried to get him to learn reading for a long time but he seems incapable of grasping anything that doesn't use simple pictures and preferably not too many of them. If he ever gets to a point where he actually comprehends basic language, I'll try to introduce argumentation concepts like strawman arguments into his understanding so that he doesn't do them with virtually every sentence he utters.

I'm not hopeful, though.

Needless to say, every argument he makes here (and elsewhere) has been refuted numerous times and are based on facts he seems to invent as it pleases his arguments. They all also apply to 100TH so that is, I'm assuming, why he feels it necessary to repeat them here.

.b

I do find it terribly hard to read. When its utter bull


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 29, 2013, 11:40:04 PM
oh and irrifutable evidence based on 10% increase only per month puts income over a 12 month period for BFmines is only 0.003 BTC, this is using your bull only 10% per month increase and including 20% bonus dividends. I have used 1gh of power for easier readability (costing 4btc for 1gh/s, 0.004*1000)


Bfmines   (costing for 1gh 4BTC)         
10% increase per month
            
Date   Global Hash Rate   Earnings Bonus
30/07/2013   275000   0   
31/08/2013   302500   0   
30/09/2013   332750   0.3888   0.07776
31/10/2013   366025   0.34992   0.069984
30/11/2013   402627.5   0.314928   0.0629856
31/12/2013   442890.25   0.2834352   0.05668704
31/01/2014   487179.275   0.25509168   0.051018336
28/02/2014   535897.2025   0.229582512   0.045916502
31/03/2014   589486.9228   0.206624261   
30/04/2014   648435.615   0.185961835   
31/05/2014   713279.1765   0.167365651   
30/06/2014   784607.0942   0.150629086   
31/07/2014   863067.8036   0.135566178   
            
         2.667904402   0.364351478
Total earning for the period            3.032255881
A nice loss of of 25%. then look at this for say a figure 20% increase per month. or how it is at the moment 30%+


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 29, 2013, 11:52:05 PM
I have used 1gh of power for easier readability

Sometimes, it is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt, as mr. Clemens would have said.

And, as we all know, any investment that yields 75% in a year is a damn disaster and a scam.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 30, 2013, 12:45:51 AM
You fool, 75% based on an increase of 10% per month(more like 20% p/a with the increase in hash rate), sure 75% dividends but what will the share price be? it would have to be at least 0.001 to get your money back, your fund has already lost its investors money without earning anything(gone from 0.004 to 7 day average of 0.00368, or 24hr av 0.00366 and its in decline) so it will take up until the end of october to earn this back(based on your own stupid assumptions).

Do you know why your IPO hasn't sold out?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 30, 2013, 12:50:45 AM
You fool, 75% based on an increase of 10% per month(more like 20% p/a with the increase in hash rate), sure 75% dividends but what will the share price be? it would have to be at least 0.001 to get your money back, your fund has already lost its investors money without earning anything(gone from 0.004 to 7 day average of 0.00368, or 24hr av 0.00366 and its in decline) so it will take up until the end of october to earn this back(based on your own stupid assumptions).

Do you know why your IPO hasn't sold out?

OK, since you're not getting any of what I'm saying, let me rephrase that previous advice:

For you, it is always better to keep your mouth closed.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 30, 2013, 12:52:47 AM
I have used 1gh of power for easier readability

Sometimes, it is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt, as mr. Clemens would have said.

And, as we all know, any investment that yields 75% in a year is a damn disaster and a scam.

.b

base it at 20% gain per month, ends with BFmines earning dividends of 40% p/a, based on 30% increase per month BFmines at 22.50% p/a. Based on whats happening right now, 20% per increase or 40% per month will return a measly 12.75% for a whole year. And will have very very little re-sale value.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: pajak666 on July 30, 2013, 12:53:25 AM
Maybe someday you will realize that 100 TH mine is not a shareholding company, it is a mine!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 30, 2013, 12:56:54 AM
Maybe someday you will realize that 100 TH mine is not a shareholding company, it is a mine!


Your lack of quoting skills aside, who do you think does not understand that here?

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 30, 2013, 01:54:52 AM
You fool, 75% based on an increase of 10% per month(more like 20% p/a with the increase in hash rate), sure 75% dividends but what will the share price be? it would have to be at least 0.001 to get your money back, your fund has already lost its investors money without earning anything(gone from 0.004 to 7 day average of 0.00368, or 24hr av 0.00366 and its in decline) so it will take up until the end of october to earn this back(based on your own stupid assumptions).

Do you know why your IPO hasn't sold out?

OK, since you're not getting any of what I'm saying, let me rephrase that previous advice:

For you, it is always better to keep your mouth closed.

.b

Interesting that you are saying that earning 75% p.a is better than any real world investment, I have never disputed this fact. All i have ever said is why would anyone want to when re-sale value will be 0 at some point, and based on 10% gains in hash rate a month you will never receive 100% ROI on BFmines. If you read anything I have said you will note that not only BFmines a scam, it is also the worst of the bunch. and since we are in a discussion tread for 100th lets talk about that.

Cost per mh
100th  0.00225
Tatvm 0.0023
Pakaja 0.0029
BFmines 0.004 or 0.00333(with bonus 20% dividends)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 30, 2013, 02:10:12 AM
Gibberish, as usual...

You're rapidly approaching the level of SO SLOVE. That is not a compliment.

As you might have picked up, though, I've stopped responding to your arguments, because I've refuted them so many times, my keyboard is wearing out.

In other words: keep trolling. Your arguments are as silly as they were the first 15 times you made them.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 30, 2013, 02:15:00 AM
Normally your on point furuknap, but I think you are a little blinded by your interests on this point.  PMB's are a loser and the only reason you are defending them is because you are selling one.

Well, because I'm not selling one, your argument is kinda moot, but to put that silly idea that I've been promoting fixed-rate mining assets only because I'm selling one myself, take a brief look back in history to see when I started arguing that such assets can make money for investors.

That said, I've been one of the fiercest critics of 100TH; not because they won't make money for their investors but because of the way tytus has treated the market. Now it looks like he's keeping himself in place, so my only critic now is that there's always a chance that history repeats itself.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 30, 2013, 02:24:30 AM
Gibberish, as usual...

You're rapidly approaching the level of SO SLOVE. That is not a compliment.

As you might have picked up, though, I've stopped responding to your arguments, because I've refuted them so many times, my keyboard is wearing out.

In other words: keep trolling. Your arguments are as silly as they were the first 15 times you made them.

.b

Gosh i'm shocked at how tired your hands must be having to type out this stupid rebuttal, but everyone knows the only reason you resort to words like "childish" "troll" or other insults like "I'm sure you're good at painting or herding cows" is because you are simply unable to argue with facts.

Your moronic stupidity amazes me to no end,

Refute this;
Cost per mh
100th  0.00225
Tatvm 0.0023
Pakaja 0.0029
BFmines 0.004 or 0.00333(with bonus 20% dividends)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 30, 2013, 02:37:46 AM
Refute this;
Cost per mh
100th  0.00225
Tatvm 0.0023
Pakaja 0.0029
BFmines 0.004 or 0.00333(with bonus 20% dividends)

Why don't you just turn on your brain for a few seconds and remember one of the multiple times I have done so already. Much easier that way, and we don't have to listen to your gibberish any more.

.b

BTW, what is pakaja? Is that yet another demonstration that you cannot read the five-letter, single-word PAJKA properly? You know, the PMB that trades at 250% of BFMines right now?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 30, 2013, 02:52:21 AM
Refute this;
Cost per mh
100th  0.00225
Tatvm 0.0023
Pakaja 0.0029
BFmines 0.004 or 0.00333(with bonus 20% dividends)

Why don't you just turn on your brain for a few seconds and remember one of the multiple times I have done so already. Much easier that way, and we don't have to listen to your gibberish any more.

.b

BTW, what is pakaja? Is that yet another demonstration that you cannot read the five-letter, single-word PAJKA properly? You know, the PMB that trades at 250% of BFMines right now?

Ouch, another classy insult as you cannot dispute the fact that BFmines is a rip off.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on July 30, 2013, 02:55:37 AM
Ouch, another classy insult as you cannot dispute the fact that BFmines is a rip off.

I don't need to. But you wouldn't understand that either.

Also, welcome to my ignore list. It's very lonely in there, but you'll find people at the same metal level as yourself so I'm sure you'll be fine.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on July 30, 2013, 02:57:17 AM
Refute this;
Cost per mh
100th  0.00225
Tatvm 0.0023
Pakaja 0.0029
BFmines 0.004 or 0.00333(with bonus 20% dividends)

Why don't you just turn on your brain for a few seconds and remember one of the multiple times I have done so already. Much easier that way, and we don't have to listen to your gibberish any more.

.b

BTW, what is pakaja? Is that yet another demonstration that you cannot read the five-letter, single-word PAJKA properly? You know, the PMB that trades at 250% of BFMines right now?

Ouch, another classy insult as you cannot dispute the fact that BFmines is a rip off.

It's funny that the only response you can come out with is an insult, or you pick up on my spelling mistakes. Great Job!
BFmines costs almost double the competition, yet your biggest reason for people to invest in BFmines is "Fun"


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 30, 2013, 03:52:16 AM
http://images.topix.com/gallery/up-R15SJ0FU7KTLD0B2.jpg

move along please.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: greaterninja on July 31, 2013, 05:50:30 AM
So i'm a little confused...what is the effective hash rate per bitcoin right now?

what the hashrate per share right now?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 31, 2013, 06:13:22 AM
eventually each share is supposed to be 200MH/s. Right how we are at 1/1000 that rate.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: greaterninja on July 31, 2013, 06:23:06 AM
eventually each share is supposed to be 200MH/s. Right how we are at 1/1000 that rate.

i thought i read something before  $5/ GH, if its $100/.2GH/S  eh thats a little scary


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: oxfeeefeee on July 31, 2013, 06:29:48 AM
the network hash rate went up quite a bit this week, is it 100TH?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 31, 2013, 06:34:15 AM
eventually each share is supposed to be 200MH/s. Right how we are at 1/1000 that rate.

i thought i read something before  $5/ GH, if its $100/.2GH/S  eh thats a little scary

The IPO price was $5/GH and stayed quite low for a while. The price of BTC was much lower then too.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on July 31, 2013, 06:36:35 AM
the network hash rate went up quite a bit this week, is it 100TH?

Not yet. at least not that we know of. current ~daily dividends can be seen here: https://picostocks.com/stocks/bitcoins/19. As you can see there is minimal income/hashing at the moment.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 31, 2013, 06:37:18 AM
the network hash rate went up quite a bit this week, is it 100TH?
Some hashes comes from 100 TH but next week is expected to deliver serious hashpower (70Th).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: oxfeeefeee on July 31, 2013, 06:41:12 AM
the network hash rate went up quite a bit this week, is it 100TH?
Some hashes comes from 100 TH but next week is expected to deliver serious hashpower (70Th).

But they said "We expect mining hardware to arrive at the data center next week." on 27th. so to me it's reasonable to think this is them.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on July 31, 2013, 09:46:50 AM
eventually each share is supposed to be 200MH/s. Right how we are at 1/1000 that rate.

i thought i read something before  $5/ GH, if its $100/.2GH/S  eh thats a little scary

At the current Ask of .43 BTC and the current Gox Price we're at USD 47,- / .2 GH

If 100TH ramps up to full speed the next few days they are going to have 25% of the network :D (just for a short while... just the tip)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on July 31, 2013, 09:51:25 AM
Week begins at monday and ends at sunday. Today we have wednesday. So, there's still 3-4 days left before it may arrive. And even it will arrive expect 2 days before it will be hooked up, configured and mine. This project begun half year ago, 3 days that way or another don't make any big difference.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: stormos on July 31, 2013, 11:38:54 AM
Week begins at monday and ends at sunday. Today we have wednesday. So, there's still 3-4 days left before it may arrive. And even it will arrive expect 2 days before it will be hooked up, configured and mine. This project begun half year ago, 3 days that way or another don't make any big difference.

You underestimate flexibility of week in case of ASICs


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on July 31, 2013, 12:04:58 PM
Week begins at monday and ends at sunday. Today we have wednesday. So, there's still 3-4 days left before it may arrive. And even it will arrive expect 2 days before it will be hooked up, configured and mine. This project begun half year ago, 3 days that way or another don't make any big difference.

You underestimate flexibility of week in case of ASICs Bitcoin


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: GenTarkin on July 31, 2013, 08:10:13 PM
Week begins at monday and ends at sunday. Today we have wednesday. So, there's still 3-4 days left before it may arrive. And even it will arrive expect 2 days before it will be hooked up, configured and mine. This project begun half year ago, 3 days that way or another don't make any big difference.

You underestimate flexibility of week in case of ASICs

Yes, this could mean a year if you take week in the context that BFL spoke about it in their news updates =P


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 01, 2013, 04:40:41 AM
I'll try not to drive you all crazy...

Boards have not shipped yet.  I expect them to take a few more days before they *begin* to ship.  I'm not sure how many are assembled at this point.  Keep in mind that if they don't run the M-boards first (as I requested), we may have all H's and no M's.  In any case, I'm looking into next week and hoping for a surprise.

At this time, there's nothing I foresee that would produce significant delays of weeks, months or ~years~  except for customs, natural disaster, sabotage, theft, or what else could happen?

Best,
Dave



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on August 01, 2013, 04:54:09 AM
I'll try not to drive you all crazy...

Boards have not shipped yet.  I expect them to take a few more days before they *begin* to ship.  I'm not sure how many are assembled at this point.  Keep in mind that if they don't run the M-boards first (as I requested), we may have all H's and no M's.  In any case, I'm looking into next week and hoping for a surprise.

At this time, there's nothing I foresee that would produce significant delays of weeks, months or ~years~  except for customs, natural disaster, sabotage, theft, or what else could happen?

Best,
Dave

oh... >:(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 01, 2013, 11:52:48 PM
I'll try not to drive you all crazy...

Boards have not shipped yet.  I expect them to take a few more days before they *begin* to ship.  I'm not sure how many are assembled at this point.  Keep in mind that if they don't run the M-boards first (as I requested), we may have all H's and no M's.  In any case, I'm looking into next week and hoping for a surprise.

At this time, there's nothing I foresee that would produce significant delays of weeks, months or ~years~  except for customs, natural disaster, sabotage, theft, or what else could happen?

Best,
Dave

Thanks for the update Dave.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 02, 2013, 07:22:40 PM
The 4 board prototype has been increased to a full 16 board rig now :)

Its hashing at about 380G, though some of the chips are not responding.  This is a hand assembled prototype, so its not totally surprising.  Tytus is working on stability via software.  This hashrate is visible on the pool, so you shareholders are going to see an increase in your divs.

***Production Update***
Fab tells me they are running assembly now, after waiting a few extra days to get components through customs.  We've asked for daily expedited shipment as the boards are completed, so I can assume shipments will begin to leave China early next week.  I don't know yet how long the shipments will take to get here, taking into account potential delays in customs.

In any case, I am ready to take on a lot of this hardware.  The datacenter has 20-tons of shiny new AC, along with 8 ton of existing.  We have plenty of power and more to come.  Rack pre-build was started early this week, so hopefully deployment will be a matter of just setting boards, connecting them and then firing them up.

I doubt it will all go perfectly smooth, but we'll be working hard to get a massive amount of mining stabilized over the next few weeks!

Cheers,
Dave



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 02, 2013, 09:57:47 PM
Thanks for the update.  Is the software that tytus is working going to be the same software that retail units will run? Will the source  code be available?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 02, 2013, 10:13:17 PM
Thanks for the update.  Is the software that tytus is working going to be the same software that retail units will run? Will the source  code be available?

Maybe initially, but once we put some units in CK and Luke-Jr's hands we'll get support going for cgminer/bfgminer.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on August 03, 2013, 12:42:18 AM
Nice, thanks for the update!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Smidge on August 03, 2013, 06:04:17 AM
Opened small position / watching.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 03, 2013, 07:08:31 PM
Was dividend posted on August 2? I donot see any on my account.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 03, 2013, 07:31:35 PM
Was dividend posted on August 2? I donot see any on my account.

Nope. Divs can be seen here https://picostocks.com/stocks/bitcoins/19

At 100GH, divs were showing up every 2-3 days. At 380Gh, we're supposed to see divs daily. This is based on the assumption that the payout threshold on Slush's pool is set to 5. So right now, it looks like we're still hashing around 100GH.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 03, 2013, 07:38:35 PM
Was dividend posted on August 2? I donot see any on my account.

Nope. Divs can be seen here https://picostocks.com/stocks/bitcoins/19

At 100GH, divs were showing up every 2-3 days. At 380Gh, we're supposed to see divs daily. This is based on the assumption that the payout threshold on Slush's pool is set to 5. So right now, it looks like we're still hashing around 100GH.
Can you please point me to the pool url? Thanks


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 03, 2013, 07:49:15 PM
http://mining.bitcoin.cz/


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 03, 2013, 07:59:31 PM
http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
Thanks, is there a page where i can track 100th?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 03, 2013, 08:44:58 PM
Remember that Tytus is working on software. So there's propably a periods of times when hardware is disabled or is not working as espected.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 03, 2013, 08:53:55 PM
Remember that Tytus is working on software. So there's propably a periods of times when hardware is disabled or is not working as espected.

makes sense, just wanted to track the hashrate on the pool.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 03, 2013, 09:15:52 PM
http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
Thanks, is there a page where i can track 100th?
I don't think offers public realtime stats for individual users.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 03, 2013, 10:16:24 PM
I see 368G at the pool at the moment.  Software is reporting 380G noncerate, 420G overall processor hashrate.

Tytus gave me remote access to the rig...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 04, 2013, 12:34:02 AM
The latest dividends are in. The next one should probably hit in about a day.  The 100 confirmations required for payout may have been the reason for the delayed payout.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 04, 2013, 04:49:19 AM
The latest dividends are in. The next one should probably hit in about a day.  The 100 confirmations required for payout may have been the reason for the delayed payout.


yup I see the divs' in today.  5.1BTC
I guess the divs from 380GH/s should be in a day or two


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 04, 2013, 02:34:17 PM
Can't wait until my 100 shares start paying me serious dividends :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 04, 2013, 05:34:32 PM
...and we have divs again. Coo.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 04, 2013, 07:28:17 PM
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

rumors of Avalon getting $200M for 20nm.




Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 04, 2013, 08:23:03 PM
...and we have divs again. Coo.
the div before split is still in 5BTC range


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 04, 2013, 08:24:12 PM
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

rumors of Avalon getting $200M for 20nm.




This cant' be true or is it? It would be interesting to see how it pans out


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 05, 2013, 12:34:31 AM
Probably utter horseshit. I shouldn't even have posted it.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 05, 2013, 06:59:51 AM
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

rumors of Avalon getting $200M for 20nm.




This cant' be true or is it? It would be interesting to see how it pans out

Let us not forget how these guys made their money - they are pirates...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Vycid on August 05, 2013, 07:12:15 AM
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

rumors of Avalon getting $200M for 20nm.




This cant' be true or is it? It would be interesting to see how it pans out

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323997004578644491403250124.html

Transcription here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268180.0

I would like to emphasize that this story will be in the Monday edition. It has been printed to paper 2.4 million times. It is being sent out all over America right now.

It is either true, or some people fucked up big time.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 05, 2013, 02:35:03 PM
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

rumors of Avalon getting $200M for 20nm.




This cant' be true or is it? It would be interesting to see how it pans out

Let us not forget how these guys made their money - they are pirates...

Personally I think it's sort of mind-blowing to think that someone would choose to invest $200 million in AVALON of all companies.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kano on August 05, 2013, 02:50:45 PM
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/avalon-might-be-getting-a-200-million-investment-and-20nm-technology-to-become-the-leader-of-the-mining-market/

rumors of Avalon getting $200M for 20nm.




This cant' be true or is it? It would be interesting to see how it pans out

Let us not forget how these guys made their money - they are pirates...

Personally I think it's sort of mind-blowing to think that someone would choose to invest $200 million in AVALON of all companies.
False.
https://twitter.com/ScottWapnerCNBC/statuses/364370798892421120


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 06, 2013, 09:37:52 PM
Any uptake on the assembly or pace of miners being brought online?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 07, 2013, 05:53:55 PM
Here's the latest:

Quote
Hey guys, the first boards are shipping from the factory tomorrow.  These are for 100TH rigs, but the August rigs are right on the heels of these boards (I don't know how long it takes them to make the 100TH boards).  The August delivery rigs were ordered in the same batch - this is different from what I've posted previously - I had forgotten that we added to the order over the top of what was needed for 100TH.

Tytus has the software working pretty well at this point - its only consuming 25% - 30% of an rPi's processor resources, which I think is pretty amazing!

A lot of work still needs to be done around things like producing some instructions and safety recommendations.  These things really are kits from that standpoint.  As soon as I can post pics of how to properly set up your rigs, I'll post it on my website.  I want to make sure you can get your rigs up & running without damaging them, yourself or your personal property.

Hey, I made a quick video showing screen output from a rig - thought I'd share that.

http://youtu.be/naW5uGHLbZE


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 07, 2013, 07:03:43 PM
Here's the latest:

Quote
Hey guys, the first boards are shipping from the factory tomorrow.  These are for 100TH rigs, but the August rigs are right on the heels of these boards (I don't know how long it takes them to make the 100TH boards).  The August delivery rigs were ordered in the same batch - this is different from what I've posted previously - I had forgotten that we added to the order over the top of what was needed for 100TH.

Tytus has the software working pretty well at this point - its only consuming 25% - 30% of an rPi's processor resources, which I think is pretty amazing!

A lot of work still needs to be done around things like producing some instructions and safety recommendations.  These things really are kits from that standpoint.  As soon as I can post pics of how to properly set up your rigs, I'll post it on my website.  I want to make sure you can get your rigs up & running without damaging them, yourself or your personal property.

Hey, I made a quick video showing screen output from a rig - thought I'd share that.

http://youtu.be/naW5uGHLbZE

Sounds good. I think we would all love a clear estimate on when we can see a significant increase in online hash-rate.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 07, 2013, 07:23:06 PM
Here's the latest:

Quote
Hey guys, the first boards are shipping from the factory tomorrow.  These are for 100TH rigs, but the August rigs are right on the heels of these boards (I don't know how long it takes them to make the 100TH boards).  The August delivery rigs were ordered in the same batch - this is different from what I've posted previously - I had forgotten that we added to the order over the top of what was needed for 100TH.

Tytus has the software working pretty well at this point - its only consuming 25% - 30% of an rPi's processor resources, which I think is pretty amazing!

A lot of work still needs to be done around things like producing some instructions and safety recommendations.  These things really are kits from that standpoint.  As soon as I can post pics of how to properly set up your rigs, I'll post it on my website.  I want to make sure you can get your rigs up & running without damaging them, yourself or your personal property.

Hey, I made a quick video showing screen output from a rig - thought I'd share that.

http://youtu.be/naW5uGHLbZE

Sounds good. I think we would all love a clear estimate on when we can see a significant increase in online hash-rate.

1.6TH are on their way to Tytus FedEx immediately - so I would expect conservatively 5 days.  Then, daily batches will be FedEx'd to me.  I would like to set the expectation that the mine won't come together perfectly in just a few days' time.  These are 300 first-run rigs and I expect we will find issues with something along the way.  I'll do everything I can to fire up any boards that come in however.  I'm shareholder too and I want some hashes!



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 07, 2013, 08:49:23 PM
Here's the latest:

Quote
Hey guys, the first boards are shipping from the factory tomorrow.  These are for 100TH rigs, but the August rigs are right on the heels of these boards (I don't know how long it takes them to make the 100TH boards).  The August delivery rigs were ordered in the same batch - this is different from what I've posted previously - I had forgotten that we added to the order over the top of what was needed for 100TH.

Tytus has the software working pretty well at this point - its only consuming 25% - 30% of an rPi's processor resources, which I think is pretty amazing!

A lot of work still needs to be done around things like producing some instructions and safety recommendations.  These things really are kits from that standpoint.  As soon as I can post pics of how to properly set up your rigs, I'll post it on my website.  I want to make sure you can get your rigs up & running without damaging them, yourself or your personal property.

Hey, I made a quick video showing screen output from a rig - thought I'd share that.

http://youtu.be/naW5uGHLbZE

Sounds good. I think we would all love a clear estimate on when we can see a significant increase in online hash-rate.

1.6TH are on their way to Tytus FedEx immediately - so I would expect conservatively 5 days.  Then, daily batches will be FedEx'd to me.  I would like to set the expectation that the mine won't come together perfectly in just a few days' time.  These are 300 first-run rigs and I expect we will find issues with something along the way.  I'll do everything I can to fire up any boards that come in however.  I'm shareholder too and I want some hashes!



Thank you very much for the information! 300 first-run rigs sounds like total hashing power could/should be closer to 120 TH (300 x 400GH+) then 100TH when all is said and done?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: AM4Bitcoin on August 07, 2013, 09:03:42 PM
I think some are for the august orders.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 07, 2013, 09:22:05 PM
Finally some good news. I think that extra hashing power would be nice to recompensate 1,5 month of delay. Just my 2Bc.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bulltrap on August 07, 2013, 09:42:50 PM
Finally some good news. I think that extra hashing power would be nice to recompensate 1,5 month of delay. Just my 2Bc.

This would be pretty cool.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 07, 2013, 09:43:59 PM
Finally some good news. I think that extra hashing power would be nice to recompensate 1,5 month of delay. Just my 2Bc.

This would be pretty cool.

I would also love it of course. Then there is the possibility of over-clocking that I am sure we will visit after it is all up and running.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 08, 2013, 05:02:33 PM
Looks like dividends have stalled. Perhaps Tytus is tweaking the setup?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 08, 2013, 06:44:48 PM
Looks like dividends have stalled. Perhaps Tytus is tweaking the setup?

Fingers crossed for update on 'major' hashing power coming online shortly. :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dben428 on August 09, 2013, 05:35:25 AM
Well, another div went through. Can't wait until this rate picks up... which will hopefully be soon.  :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 11, 2013, 02:20:55 AM
A couple of fast div payments...more hashing power coming on line?...or possibly good luck.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on August 11, 2013, 05:11:00 AM
I see 368G at the pool at the moment.  Software is reporting 380G noncerate, 420G overall processor hashrate.
This gives current frequency of over 5 BTC per day.

1.6TH are on their way to Tytus FedEx immediately - so I would expect conservatively 5 days.
Adding that should give about a total of over 25 BTC daily. To be seen 100 confirmations later...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: astutiumRob on August 12, 2013, 03:44:51 AM
I see 368G at the pool at the moment.  Software is reporting 380G noncerate, 420G overall processor hashrate.
This gives current frequency of over 5 BTC per day.

1.6TH are on their way to Tytus FedEx immediately - so I would expect conservatively 5 days.
Adding that should give about a total of over 25 BTC daily. To be seen 100 confirmations later...

Your numbers are way off.

With ~400TH (currently) on the network (more being added daily) - 2TH/s would be 0.5% which is ~18 coins/day


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Transisto on August 12, 2013, 04:57:55 AM
Where are the updates ?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Andrey on August 12, 2013, 05:49:33 AM
Tytus, do you know this site https://ghash.io/ ? Who is sending ghashes there?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on August 12, 2013, 06:53:40 AM
Adding that should give about a total of over 25 BTC daily. To be seen 100 confirmations later...

Your numbers are way off.

With ~400TH (currently) on the network (more being added daily) - 2TH/s would be 0.5% which is ~18 coins/day

No. My numbers are good. The are calculated for current difficulty, which determines current earnings.
Yours 18 BTC is estimated for 400 TH/s, while next difficulty will depend on mean hashrate of current period, which is smaller.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Transisto on August 12, 2013, 07:32:27 AM
Adding that should give about a total of over 25 BTC daily. To be seen 100 confirmations later...

Your numbers are way off.

With ~400TH (currently) on the network (more being added daily) - 2TH/s would be 0.5% which is ~18 coins/day

No. My numbers are good. The are calculated for current difficulty, which determines current earnings.
Yours 18 BTC is estimated for 400 TH/s, while next difficulty will depend on mean hashrate of current period, which is smaller.
Why bother seriously ?

Between 0ths , 2ths and 100Ths This thing is still at OFF and LATE.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 12, 2013, 05:04:22 PM
Since 100TH should be the first mining operation using Bitfury chips so https://ghash.io/ should by that logic be 100TH mining. Can we get confirmation?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on August 12, 2013, 06:15:28 PM
Since 100TH should be the first mining operation using Bitfury chips so https://ghash.io/ should by that logic be 100TH mining. Can we get confirmation?
And why should it be the first one?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on August 12, 2013, 06:28:18 PM
Since 100TH should be the first mining operation using Bitfury chips so https://ghash.io/ should by that logic be 100TH mining. Can we get confirmation?
And why should it be the first one?

The original schedule included deploying the 100TH about a month prior to MetaBank shipping their devices.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 12, 2013, 06:52:14 PM
I'm sure bitfury already has a few TH of his own mining away somewhere...and bare chips have already been delivered as well. That said, 12TH+ is quite a number of chips...whoever this is got things done pretty quickly.



1.6TH are on their way to Tytus FedEx immediately - so I would expect conservatively 5 days.  Then, daily batches will be FedEx'd to me.  I would like to set the expectation that the mine won't come together perfectly in just a few days' time.  These are 300 first-run rigs and I expect we will find issues with something along the way.  I'll do everything I can to fire up any boards that come in however.  I'm shareholder too and I want some hashes!



Any word on if/when the 1.6TH was received? Have the daily batches begun shipping to Dave?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 12, 2013, 07:18:55 PM
Since 100TH should be the first mining operation using Bitfury chips so https://ghash.io/ should by that logic be 100TH mining. Can we get confirmation?
And why should it be the first one?

Because Bitfury quite some time ago communicated that 100TH was reference design for 400GH/S miners (Cscape) and they should be the first (outside of Russia at least) to received chips, M/H Boards.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: punin on August 12, 2013, 09:12:36 PM
Since 100TH should be the first mining operation using Bitfury chips so https://ghash.io/ should by that logic be 100TH mining. Can we get confirmation?
And why should it be the first one?

 (outside of Russia at least)

Now you're talking :) GHASH.io is a CIS operation.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redbeans2012 on August 12, 2013, 11:58:24 PM
Since 100TH should be the first mining operation using Bitfury chips so https://ghash.io/ should by that logic be 100TH mining. Can we get confirmation?
And why should it be the first one?

Because Bitfury quite some time ago communicated that 100TH was reference design for 400GH/S miners (Cscape) and they should be the first (outside of Russia at least) to received chips, M/H Boards.

After you get these questions answered, maybe you can answer some questions in the labcoin thread.. you know the one you've been ignoring for a few days?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Bitcycle on August 13, 2013, 12:14:08 AM
Since 100TH should be the first mining operation using Bitfury chips so https://ghash.io/ should by that logic be 100TH mining. Can we get confirmation?
And why should it be the first one?

Because Bitfury quite some time ago communicated that 100TH was reference design for 400GH/S miners (Cscape) and they should be the first (outside of Russia at least) to received chips, M/H Boards.

After you get these questions answered, maybe you can answer some questions in the labcoin thread.. you know the one you've been ignoring for a few days?

Indeed.  Time for a Labcoin update.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: CMMPro on August 13, 2013, 12:21:53 AM
Haha...maybe he is on vacation this week.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 13, 2013, 12:47:02 AM
Well, I AM scheduled to update the Labcoin thread shortly. My silence as of a few days has been due to Sam and the development team being busy and traveling since last week. I am scheduled for an update today from Sam and within the next few days (overdue, I know) the founder and more developers will also beging posting here on the forum.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on August 13, 2013, 02:50:39 AM
Well, I AM scheduled to update the Labcoin thread shortly. My silence as of a few days has been due to Sam and the development team being busy and traveling since last week. I am scheduled for an update today from Sam and within the next few days (overdue, I know) the founder and more developers will also beging posting here on the forum.
What the fxxk are you talking about?
Wrong thread,dude.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 13, 2013, 08:13:24 AM
Dave is silent recently. Last post was wrote two days ago. Maybe he recived first batches and is busy getting them online. Fingers crossed.....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on August 13, 2013, 02:37:46 PM
Wafers still need to be thinned, diced and packed. I'm expecting chips in ~2 weeks. Fingers crossed!

Is it ok if I uncross my fingers yet?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 13, 2013, 06:36:43 PM
Guys - Les received the boards today and ... they have a problem.  The fab dropped 2 of our layers, producing a 2-layer PCB (no internal interconnects).  We identified the problem immediately, got it fixed, and the fab is now expediting new PCBs on a 5-day turn.  We are seeking to expedite each additional step this is going to take, but we *will* lose 3 - 5 days here (and 10's of thousands of $$$)

Steps we are taking:
-2-day turn verification rig in production now
-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig
-expedite all stages of PCB production, assembly & delivery

Since we will be right up against our retail delivery timeframe, we are going to have to use the boards for filling retail product.  Due to this, Tytus has announced an increased hashrate supply to our investors of 200TH total, to be deployed in the next two months cumulatively (not all at once at the end).

We are as upset at the delay/fakap as you are I'm sure.  This is one of the side affects of pushing such a fast track project, but we are making it right.  Believe me we want this stuff hashing as much as anyone and we are pulling out all the stops to get it done.

The pico status report can be seen here: https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19 (https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: AM4Bitcoin on August 13, 2013, 06:48:38 PM
When i read your post i think this will cause a delay for some days maybe a week. When i read the statement on picostocks i read a delay for a full month?
Which is the case?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ronaldlee0917 on August 13, 2013, 06:49:51 PM
100TH -> 200TH, share price doubled?
Just kidding, do your own maths! ;D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 13, 2013, 07:41:58 PM
Guys - Les received the boards today and ... they have a problem.  The fab dropped 2 of our layers, producing a 2-layer PCB (no internal interconnects).  We identified the problem immediately, got it fixed, and the fab is now expediting new PCBs on a 5-day turn.  We are seeking to expedite each additional step this is going to take, but we *will* lose 3 - 5 days here (and 10's of thousands of $$$)

Steps we are taking:
-2-day turn verification rig in production now
-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig
-expedite all stages of PCB production, assembly & delivery

Since we will be right up against our retail delivery timeframe, we are going to have to use the boards for filling retail product.  Due to this, Tytus has announced an increased hashrate supply to our investors of 200TH total, to be deployed in the next two months cumulatively (not all at once at the end).

We are as upset at the delay/fakap as you are I'm sure.  This is one of the side affects of pushing such a fast track project, but we are making it right.  Believe me we want this stuff hashing as much as anyone and we are pulling out all the stops to get it done.

The pico status report can be seen here: https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19

Although the delay is disappointing, I'm very happy to see how this team responds to adversity. Even though the delay is the fault of the PCB manufacturer, Tytus has decided to double the hash rate of the mine. This is not something that he was required to do, but he did it to assuage fears and reinforce the team's reputation. Rather than treating investors with contempt and letting us "just deal" with delays, he has made a proactive decision to compensate investors. Although he may be reducing short-term gains with this move, I'm certain the goodwill he's showing towards investors will only strengthen his brand/reputation and will have positive long term repercussions.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 13, 2013, 08:07:45 PM
Dave, will you be adding power to the datacenter to deal with the additional 100TH?

With the addition of another 100TH, I'm compelled to bring back the subject of potentially converting this security into an ASICMINER-like model where a percentage of dividends are withheld to reinvest in additional mining hardware. Converting to this model would result in a significant rise in share price (ASICMINER-like) and selling a portion of those shares would allow bitfury to quickly jump to a smaller process node to compete with the influx of new 28nm chips.

Obviously, the short-term goal is to get the mine deployed and I don't want to distract Tytus (and team) from that activity.  I don't know if Tytus' really big investors are willing to do this or if Tytus himself has a controlling interest, but thought I'd bring this for discussion again.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: furuknap on August 13, 2013, 09:42:44 PM
Guys - Les received the boards today and ... they have a problem.  The fab dropped 2 of our layers, producing a 2-layer PCB (no internal interconnects).  We identified the problem immediately, got it fixed, and the fab is now expediting new PCBs on a 5-day turn.  We are seeking to expedite each additional step this is going to take, but we *will* lose 3 - 5 days here (and 10's of thousands of $$$)

Steps we are taking:
-2-day turn verification rig in production now
-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig
-expedite all stages of PCB production, assembly & delivery

Since we will be right up against our retail delivery timeframe, we are going to have to use the boards for filling retail product.  Due to this, Tytus has announced an increased hashrate supply to our investors of 200TH total, to be deployed in the next two months cumulatively (not all at once at the end).

We are as upset at the delay/fakap as you are I'm sure.  This is one of the side affects of pushing such a fast track project, but we are making it right.  Believe me we want this stuff hashing as much as anyone and we are pulling out all the stops to get it done.

The pico status report can be seen here: https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19

Dave,

As much as this is bad news, I appreciate the notification to the market. You are much more on the ball than tytus was, and I don't say that to berate him but to commend you.

Can we expect tytus to dump shares to the market now that there's bad news, like has happened the previous times? As always, I would appreciate the market being allowed to decide whether the bad news is compensated by the increased hashrate, if you don't mind.

.b


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitbytes on August 13, 2013, 11:06:44 PM
Just to understand this, you are putting retail deliveries before 100th which will cause a month of additional delay, but doubling ultimate capacity to 200th.  Exactly how much hashing power will be delivered to retail before us and can you promise that additional retail orders won't further subordinate our delivery?

Guys - Les received the boards today and ... they have a problem.  The fab dropped 2 of our layers, producing a 2-layer PCB (no internal interconnects).  We identified the problem immediately, got it fixed, and the fab is now expediting new PCBs on a 5-day turn.  We are seeking to expedite each additional step this is going to take, but we *will* lose 3 - 5 days here (and 10's of thousands of $$$)

Steps we are taking:
-2-day turn verification rig in production now
-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig
-expedite all stages of PCB production, assembly & delivery

Since we will be right up against our retail delivery timeframe, we are going to have to use the boards for filling retail product.  Due to this, Tytus has announced an increased hashrate supply to our investors of 200TH total, to be deployed in the next two months cumulatively (not all at once at the end).

We are as upset at the delay/fakap as you are I'm sure.  This is one of the side affects of pushing such a fast track project, but we are making it right.  Believe me we want this stuff hashing as much as anyone and we are pulling out all the stops to get it done.

The pico status report can be seen here: https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 14, 2013, 01:07:39 AM
While I guess this is to be considered "bad news" I am convinced that Tytus and Buzzdave have everyone's best interest in mind, not only from a "good Samaritan" point of view but as share holders themselves.

At a glance I would almost claim that icon a longer horizon 200TH over 1-8 weeks is actually a worthwhile upgrade from 100TH.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 14, 2013, 01:10:22 AM
100TH -> 200TH, share price doubled?
Just kidding, do your own maths! ;D

200TH is of course in itself a huge upgrade, but with the cumulative rollout and loss of "early mining" I think we need to do some math before yelling 'YES'..


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitbytes on August 14, 2013, 01:38:00 AM
Yes. Network hash has doubled from 200TH to 400TH in the last 5 weeks so it could turn out to be just a breakeven. Given the intended hash rates for the various IPOs (even the stub Garden) these delays are major concerns.

To do the numbers we need a date for the full 200TH to be live. Can you provide an estimate?

100TH -> 200TH, share price doubled?
Just kidding, do your own maths! ;D

200TH is of course in itself a huge upgrade, but with the cumulative rollout and loss of "early mining" I think we need to do some math before yelling 'YES'..


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: helloge on August 14, 2013, 01:54:10 AM
what an international joke about the PCB failure with dropping 2 of 4 layers!! :'(
even the small firm will not make such stupid mistake.
how can I trust in you again and again,delay and delay,error and error!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mobius on August 14, 2013, 02:29:30 AM
what an international joke about the PCB failure with dropping 2 of 4 layers!! :'(
even the small firm will not make such stupid mistake.
how can I trust in you again and again,delay and delay,error and error!
How can we trust your opinions?
When you build up some credibility and time under your belt, come back.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 14, 2013, 05:48:36 AM
Actually may make sense. I think board v1.0 was 2 layer board and possibly Les used the same PCB manufacturer and they still assumed 2 layer board.

If you take a look carefully on top right corner of v1.0 board, it shows 1 and 2 layers.
http://bioinfo.pl/pub/pico/hcard-design.jpg


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 14, 2013, 06:14:31 AM
what an international joke about the PCB failure with dropping 2 of 4 layers!! :'(
even the small firm will not make such stupid mistake.
how can I trust in you again and again,delay and delay,error and error!

It's happened for sure

http://bioinfo.pl/pub/pico/hcard_back.jpg

http://bioinfo.pl/pub/pico/hcard_front.jpg

And am glad for the upfront response by 100TH, now 200TH ;) team. keep up the good work guys. Stuff happens.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on August 14, 2013, 06:25:53 AM
i think the stock name should change  100TH  to 200TH, it sounds more agressive。anyway, happy to hear that,i will still hold tigth my
shares.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redbeans2012 on August 14, 2013, 06:34:41 AM
Is there any place I can find a summary of whats going on with this Security? Are they hashing yet, or is it very soon?  Can someone give me a 1 or 2 sentence summary. Why are the charts so funny on Picostocks? lol

EDIT: found it thanks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: intron on August 14, 2013, 07:03:53 AM
Actually may make sense. I think board v1.0 was 2 layer board and possibly Les used the same PCB manufacturer and they still assumed 2 layer board.

If you take a look carefully on top right corner of v1.0 board, it shows 1 and 2 layers.


No it's not. It was always a 4-layer board.
The layer counters for layer 3 and 4 are
not visible when looking from layer top.

intron


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 14, 2013, 11:17:36 AM
Is there any place I can find a summary of whats going on with this Security? Are they hashing yet, or is it very soon?  Can someone give me a 1 or 2 sentence summary. Why are the charts so funny on Picostocks? lol

EDIT: found it thanks.

Yes, it hashing. With 400GH/s of prototype setup. It should start hashing this week but as you can read few post earlier manufacturing error causes bords to be usseless. Now next month needs to pass to start hashing at 100TH and another month for 200TH total. That extra 100TH is to compensate losses caused by a delay.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on August 14, 2013, 12:50:49 PM
When i read your post i think this will cause a delay for some days maybe a week. When i read the statement on picostocks i read a delay for a full month?
Which is the case?

The cause is that he's a lying piece of shit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1539328#msg1539328).

Dave,

As much as this is bad news, I appreciate the notification to the market.

Appreciate the part where he ignores all of you for a while but answers within hours of my post.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 14, 2013, 04:31:28 PM
When i read your post i think this will cause a delay for some days maybe a week. When i read the statement on picostocks i read a delay for a full month?
Which is the case?

The cause is that he's a lying piece of shit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg1539328#msg1539328).

Dave,

As much as this is bad news, I appreciate the notification to the market.

Appreciate the part where he ignores all of you for a while but answers within hours of my post.

I like the part where you run a mock-exchange and bash all other projects because you have sand in your vagina.

"THE BTC stock exchange" you have got to be smoking crack.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Andrey on August 14, 2013, 04:56:59 PM
Tytus, do you know this site https://ghash.io/ ? Who is sending ghashes there?

I have found an answer in Russian metabank.ru thread. It is bitfury himself. Those are his personal ghashes.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: jborkl on August 14, 2013, 05:49:50 PM
I must be really confused here .

yesterday that private pool was 12 th - today it is 22 th

The board is a fail?

I am sure I am missing a part of the story here


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Andrey on August 14, 2013, 05:58:18 PM
I must be really confused here .

yesterday that private pool was 12 th - today it is 22 th

The board is a fail?

I am sure I am missing a part of the story here

bitfury has his share of chips, and he is doing his own assembly, separate from 100Th.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: jborkl on August 14, 2013, 05:59:30 PM
Ah, I see fair enough then

Thanks for the info


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on August 14, 2013, 07:04:03 PM
I like the part where you run a mock-exchange and bash all other projects because you have sand in your vagina.

"THE BTC stock exchange" you have got to be smoking crack.

Give yourself a little time. After you cross the one year mark you start seeing things differently.

Provided, of course, you do ever get to be that old.

Here's a hint: MPEx is older than Bitcoinica. It saw Pirate rise and fall. It saw GLBSE go to shit. It saw MtGox die. All these things seemed like hot shit to Bitcoin's mayflies.

It's not just that it's older than you, or that it'll survive you, it's a lot more than that. Things you can't even imagine.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: julz on August 14, 2013, 11:24:11 PM
I like the part where you run a mock-exchange and bash all other projects because you have sand in your vagina.

"THE BTC stock exchange" you have got to be smoking crack.

Give yourself a little time. After you cross the one year mark you start seeing things differently.

Provided, of course, you do ever get to be that old.

Here's a hint: MPEx is older than Bitcoinica. It saw Pirate rise and fall. It saw GLBSE go to shit. It saw MtGox die. All these things seemed like hot shit to Bitcoin's mayflies.

It's not just that it's older than you, or that it'll survive you, it's a lot more than that. Things you can't even imagine.

MPEx seems like the sort of project where the operator assumes technical competence and decent architecture is self-evident and will wow the marketplace, and then proceeds to vigorously blame people for their failure to appreciate the system - when it's more a case of the operator failing to understand (or give a rats arse about) people.
Hint: Your model will work nicely when autonomous software agents are starting Bitcoin businesses and need to IPO.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 15, 2013, 12:34:20 AM
I like the part where you run a mock-exchange and bash all other projects because you have sand in your vagina.

"THE BTC stock exchange" you have got to be smoking crack.

Give yourself a little time. After you cross the one year mark you start seeing things differently.

Provided, of course, you do ever get to be that old.

Here's a hint: MPEx is older than Bitcoinica. It saw Pirate rise and fall. It saw GLBSE go to shit. It saw MtGox die. All these things seemed like hot shit to Bitcoin's mayflies.

It's not just that it's older than you, or that it'll survive you, it's a lot more than that. Things you can't even imagine.

I assume the clear technical advantage and communication skills that you obviously possess is the reason that Mpex has about the volume of a mid sized pizza parlor.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: canth on August 16, 2013, 03:10:22 PM

I assume the clear technical advantage and communication skills that you obviously possess is the reason that Mpex has about the volume of a mid sized pizza parlor.

... and with the customer service of the soup nazi.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Kuroth on August 16, 2013, 07:43:47 PM
Watching this one..


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 16, 2013, 09:08:52 PM
Am i seeing this right? This is another security that wants to develop their own asic and mine themself with it? They own the design at the end right?

The first post states one month so it looks like its delayed.

Does the security issuer have a past with other projects so one could judge a bit from that?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on August 16, 2013, 10:03:04 PM
Sebastian, search for a name "Bitfury".


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 17, 2013, 12:01:44 AM
Sebastian, search for a name "Bitfury".

So they use bitfury chips? That would mean its not their own design which would diminish advantages in price nearly to that base every other miner is working on.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: vs3 on August 17, 2013, 01:51:16 AM
Sebastian, search for a name "Bitfury".

So they use bitfury chips? That would mean its not their own design which would diminish advantages in price nearly to that base every other miner is working on.

Sebastian - the history of the project and who's who is in the PDF:
Business plan: http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19

The whole bitfury project may have remained somewhat in the shadows had it not been for a bet ... see this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=228677.0).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 17, 2013, 04:05:21 AM
Sebastian, search for a name "Bitfury".

So they use bitfury chips? That would mean its not their own design which would diminish advantages in price nearly to that base every other miner is working on.

They are using the Cscape board design and Bitfury chips, but as I understand at VERY reduced prices as they are reference designers and first chip buyers.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 17, 2013, 06:11:21 AM
Short story version:
Tytus (Leszek) had an idea. He talked to bitfury and ask him to design a chip. Then collected money (thru 100TH mine IPO and some private funds). While bitfury was busy with designing, Tytus was busy talking with semiconductors vendors and other people capable with electronics engeneering. This cooperative was succesful and they have working chips (and whole miners) but due to errors in mass production of PCB (caused by manufacturing company) there is delay of deploying hardware to 100TH mine. Tytus is very honorable man and he knows that this delays are causing losses to investors so he decides to throw another 100TH to mine (total will be 200TH). Loosing his own private money (well I'm suspecting that he will just quit profits from first batches of chips sales).
It's all my speculations based on half a year of tracking info ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Pale Phoenix on August 17, 2013, 07:02:27 AM
MPEx seems like the sort of project where the operator assumes technical competence and decent architecture is self-evident and will wow the marketplace, and then proceeds to vigorously blame people for their failure to appreciate the system - when it's more a case of the operator failing to understand (or give a rats arse about) people.
Hint: Your model will work nicely when autonomous software agents are starting Bitcoin businesses and need to IPO.


Excellent analysis. Megalomania is particularly ugly and sad.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 17, 2013, 07:14:55 AM
Short story version:
Tytus (Leszek) had an idea. He talked to bitfury and ask him to design a chip. Then collected money (thru 100TH mine IPO and some private funds). While bitfury was busy with designing, Tytus was busy talking with semiconductors vendors and other people capable with electronics engeneering. This cooperative was succesful and they have working chips (and whole miners) but due to errors in mass production of PCB (caused by manufacturing company) there is delay of deploying hardware to 100TH mine. Tytus is very honorable man and he knows that this delays are causing losses to investors so he decides to throw another 100TH to mine (total will be 200TH). Loosing his own private money (well I'm suspecting that he will just quit profits from first batches of chips sales).
It's all my speculations based on half a year of tracking info ;)

Agreed in general, but I also assume TYTUS is a major share holder so if 100TH profits, so does he.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 17, 2013, 10:00:16 AM
Site has changed:
Last modification:   2013-08-17 11:00:01
 
200 terra Hash/s bitcoin mine using 55nm ASIC boards.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 17, 2013, 04:19:19 PM
Ok, the targetted price per GH arent bad. At least when the miner assembly cost the same again. Then it would be similar like Asicminers old chips. AM can bring up 1TH for 10K USD. Of course its open how much they can bring online with that money with their next gen chip. And this project here would be a next gen chip compared to Asicminer.

So far this looks like one of three projects that will have their own ASIC Design and is able to produce miner for a low price. Im only not very sure... can this project order more ASIC's for the same price later to remain their hashrate?

The other 2 projects i check out at the moment are Labcoin and ActiveMining. Are there any more that will have a mining farm from Asics they practically own the design? Maybe Scrypt Asic's too?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Pale Phoenix on August 17, 2013, 05:29:53 PM
So far this looks like one of three projects that will have their own ASIC Design and is able to produce miner for a low price. Im only not very sure... can this project order more ASIC's for the same price later to remain their hashrate?


It's true that the founder, tytus, has access to further hashpower through Bitfury, but I believe this particular project will get 200TH and that's it. In other words, there are no plans to keep this project at a certain % of the overall hashrate like some of the other ventures out there.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 17, 2013, 06:56:20 PM
So far this looks like one of three projects that will have their own ASIC Design and is able to produce miner for a low price. Im only not very sure... can this project order more ASIC's for the same price later to remain their hashrate?


It's true that the founder, tytus, has access to further hashpower through Bitfury, but I believe this particular project will get 200TH and that's it. In other words, there are no plans to keep this project at a certain % of the overall hashrate like some of the other ventures out there.

Ok, then its not for me. I more searched for securities that get a share of the network like Asicminer does. Only a short time gain or hardware for prices i can get too isnt what i search.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dvdrewritable on August 17, 2013, 08:00:57 PM
The other 2 projects i check out at the moment are Labcoin and ActiveMining. Are there any more that will have a mining farm from Asics they practically own the design? Maybe Scrypt Asic's too?

has your account been hacked?  ;D


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 17, 2013, 08:01:59 PM
Tytus is silent for some time. As he decided to throw extra hashing power, he may do that again. Now he is very busy to deliver first hashes, but when dust come down... Who knows what we will see ;-)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 17, 2013, 09:16:42 PM
The other 2 projects i check out at the moment are Labcoin and ActiveMining. Are there any more that will have a mining farm from Asics they practically own the design? Maybe Scrypt Asic's too?

has your account been hacked?  ;D

Does this text remind you on another one?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on August 18, 2013, 12:35:57 PM
MPEx seems like the sort of project where the operator assumes technical competence and decent architecture is self-evident and will wow the marketplace, and then proceeds to vigorously blame people for their failure to appreciate the system - when it's more a case of the operator failing to understand (or give a rats arse about) people.
Hint: Your model will work nicely when autonomous software agents are starting Bitcoin businesses and need to IPO.

I lolled, MP lolled, you certainly got a point somewhere in there.

Reality is of course a little more complex than that, as there's plenty of people with accounts. Seems it's not strictly a matter of waiting for autonomous software.

I assume the clear technical advantage and communication skills that you obviously possess is the reason that Mpex has about the volume of a mid sized pizza parlor.

Listen scamboy (http://trilema.com/2013/the-anatomy-of-a-scam/), you and your pump and dump scams can create all the fake volume you want, it's not going to change anything. Sure, you may convince a throng of muppets that don't know any better that you matter because you've written more digits on a website somewhere. This is scarcely worth the effort, the muppets can be convinced and unconvinced of any arbitrary thing or other five times each day, and they'll be out of everyone's way in a fortnight anyway. You might as well spend your time trying to be popular with gnats and Mayflies.

MP on the other hand is there where it matters, when you actually have 10s of ks at your disposal (1 (http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/), 2 (http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-april-2013-statement/)) for the general good of Bitcoin you may revisit this point again. When you decide whether the "top exchange" lives or dies you may revisit this point again. In the meanwhile the "success" of the last pirate in convincing muppets of his importance (http://pastebin.com/PthgrzDS) was instructively ephemeral. You're no different.

Bitcoin is not about the muppets. It's true that it's not about autonomous software, either. Nevertheless, the expectations of consumerism, welfarism, democracy as mis-implemented by the socialist West and so on do not carry over. A difficult point to digest for many, especially if they've lived their entire lives immersed in that particular ideological box. Nevertheless, as difficult, inconvenient, or unexpected as it may be, Bitcoin is not about people, and it certainly is not about "the people".

... and with the customer service of the soup nazi.

Here's the difference: I'm the one PR of a Bitcoin business that doesn't lie to the public. Everyone else "is nice". Enjoy it.

More along the same lines: MPEx is the one business where all the complaints come from people who aren't customers, as opposed to everyone else getting all the complaints from customers. On the strength of this observation, any time your complaints bother you enough you can simply switch sides.

Excellent analysis. Megalomania is particularly ugly and sad.

Getting confused as to what's funny and what's srs because you've had Real Bad Experiences in the Past (tm) is ugly and sad. Get over your trauma, be a human being. Free and all that.

The other 2 projects i check out at the moment are Labcoin and ActiveMining. Are there any more that will have a mining farm from Asics they practically own the design? Maybe Scrypt Asic's too?

has your account been hacked?  ;D

No, this is perfectly in character. I don't think there's a scam Sebastian has missed investing in so far, it's what he does. He just judiciously avoids/mudslings everything else.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 18, 2013, 03:05:57 PM
The other 2 projects i check out at the moment are Labcoin and ActiveMining. Are there any more that will have a mining farm from Asics they practically own the design? Maybe Scrypt Asic's too?

has your account been hacked?  ;D

No, this is perfectly in character. I don't think there's a scam Sebastian has missed investing in so far, it's what he does. He just judiciously avoids/mudslings everything else.

Im not sure if i understand you correctly but till now i had a good chunk of luck when investing. Even with bad investments i came out relatively unharmed. And Asicminer was a big success so far. The avalon chips are still profitable if the miners come in the next weeks too. Less profitable for sure and i wouldnt have bought if i knew the delay and exponential rise of difficulty before. AND the non-communication technique Yifu is chosing to use.

All this together leads me to think that only the ones that can bring TH online the cheapest will win. That arent securities that buy practically at everybody-prices. Even companies like Asicminer might become problems since there is such a huge amount of preorders in the pipeline that could turn out as a loss to the buyers and hurt even the companies that can produce lower on the way.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on August 21, 2013, 07:15:39 PM
-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig

Good news everyone!

And greetings from Shanghai!

Just got batch of 20 boards from the factory and tested them. They work perfectly! We're still on schedule! :)

Some pics: Maglev from Pudong airport and H-board gets vertigo.

http://i.imgur.com/k1CSsdD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OYoZ6tw.jpg?1



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitbytes on August 21, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
This is great for customers buying miners, but it's still not clear how many THs are being shipped before getting to 100/200TH and an estimated date for them to be fully deployed.

Many unanswered questions on top of major delays. . .

-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig

Good news everyone!

And greetings from Shanghai!

Just got batch of 20 boards from the factory and tested them. They work perfectly! We're still on schedule! :)

Some pics: Maglev from Pudong airport and H-board gets vertigo.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 21, 2013, 10:55:16 PM
This is great for customers buying miners, but it's still not clear how many THs are being shipped before getting to 100/200TH and an estimated date for them to be fully deployed.

Many unanswered questions on top of major delays. . .

-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig

Good news everyone!

And greetings from Shanghai!

Just got batch of 20 boards from the factory and tested them. They work perfectly! We're still on schedule! :)

Some pics: Maglev from Pudong airport and H-board gets vertigo.


Lets compile the unanswered questions here and I'll try to answer them.  Here's what I plan on doing:
-Receive product, immediately set it up and run 24hr testing into 100TH mine
-Pull off tested product for retail product shipping
-Replenish racks with more newly received gear to test.
-Repeat this process until August orders are out the door (I estimate 3-4 days of this process)
-At this point, the 100TH hashpower should stop fluctuating and start growing as more product arrives.

There are more boards on the way, so we don't expect a break after we finish deploying the first batch of boards.  The timeframe I'm most fuzzy about is how long to deploy the extra hashpower from 100TH -> 200TH.  I would estimate weeks, not months.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: creativex on August 21, 2013, 11:03:23 PM
It's actually kind of refreshing to see a vendor admitting they'll be testing on main net. ;)

Thanks for the info Dave.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: canth on August 21, 2013, 11:09:14 PM
It's actually kind of refreshing to see a vendor admitting they'll be testing on main net. ;)

Thanks for the info Dave.

Heh...well it's a bit different with a vendor that has public investors who are expecting to profit from mining operations vs say BFL, KNC or Avalon who's customers who have no option to profit from any private mining done by those firms.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on August 21, 2013, 11:24:06 PM
-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig

Good news everyone!

And greetings from Shanghai!

Just got batch of 20 boards from the factory and tested them. They work perfectly! We're still on schedule! :)

Some pics: Maglev from Pudong airport and H-board gets vertigo.

http://i.imgur.com/k1CSsdD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OYoZ6tw.jpg?1


welcome to my country。


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 22, 2013, 08:09:04 AM
So we may observe some terahashes spikes for about week and then steady increase up to 100TH?
This test will be on some pool or solo mining?
Finally something is happening ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mumung on August 22, 2013, 11:58:50 AM
Up to 200TH actually.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 22, 2013, 12:31:22 PM
Up to 200TH actually.
Yes of course, but thats a more distant future.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: filharvey on August 22, 2013, 09:24:21 PM
where are we mining or will be mining?

Thanks

Phil


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 22, 2013, 09:46:57 PM
@OP... why dont you want to raise the TH you mine with constantly and make this a constant project? I mean you have access to miners at cost so you could make this into a second Asicminer. But when stopping at 200TH it will go down and end only.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: papamoi on August 22, 2013, 09:55:06 PM
hi

does anyone knows  who is mining here?

https://ghash.io/


thanks


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: AM4Bitcoin on August 22, 2013, 10:42:52 PM
I think bitfury with his private operation.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitbytes on August 23, 2013, 12:58:46 AM
It would be reassuring if the 100/200TH sponsors could reveal if they have any interest in the https://ghash.io/
mine. Should be crossing 100TH in days.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 23, 2013, 03:13:27 AM
It would be reassuring if the 100/200TH sponsors could reveal if they have any interest in the https://ghash.io/
mine. Should be crossing 100TH in days.

Yeah I'm fairly certain that is Bitfury's private pool, and also what is used to test some blades for shipping to customers (mostly cause the hash rate fluctuates pretty wildly).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 23, 2013, 03:14:50 AM
@OP... why dont you want to raise the TH you mine with constantly and make this a constant project? I mean you have access to miners at cost so you could make this into a second Asicminer. But when stopping at 200TH it will go down and end only.

I am also of the opinion that OP should take a vote or whatever needed to withhold some dividend (20% or so) for reinvestment if he can acquire hash rate at wholesale cost. Why stop at 200TH?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 23, 2013, 05:32:21 PM
Wow, 80+ TH/s on ghash.io already. I really hope 1/200TH production comes through and can keep pumping out the boards.

@OP... why dont you want to raise the TH you mine with constantly and make this a constant project? I mean you have access to miners at cost so you could make this into a second Asicminer. But when stopping at 200TH it will go down and end only.

I am also of the opinion that OP should take a vote or whatever needed to withhold some dividend (20% or so) for reinvestment if he can acquire hash rate at wholesale cost. Why stop at 200TH?

+1. Not only will this give shareholders good dividends, but will also vastly increase share price (more value here than even mining...at least short term). Also, saves Tytus the trouble of creating and managing separate securities for additional mines.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Kushedout on August 23, 2013, 07:28:57 PM
@OP... why dont you want to raise the TH you mine with constantly and make this a constant project? I mean you have access to miners at cost so you could make this into a second Asicminer. But when stopping at 200TH it will go down and end only.

I am also of the opinion that OP should take a vote or whatever needed to withhold some dividend (20% or so) for reinvestment if he can acquire hash rate at wholesale cost. Why stop at 200TH?

+1. Not only will this give shareholders good dividends, but will also vastly increase share price (more value here than even mining...at least short term). Also, saves Tytus the trouble of creating and managing separate securities for additional mines.

+1

I hope the above propositions are considered.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2013, 09:04:34 PM
@OP... why dont you want to raise the TH you mine with constantly and make this a constant project? I mean you have access to miners at cost so you could make this into a second Asicminer. But when stopping at 200TH it will go down and end only.

I am also of the opinion that OP should take a vote or whatever needed to withhold some dividend (20% or so) for reinvestment if he can acquire hash rate at wholesale cost. Why stop at 200TH?

+1. Not only will this give shareholders good dividends, but will also vastly increase share price (more value here than even mining...at least short term). Also, saves Tytus the trouble of creating and managing separate securities for additional mines.

+1

I hope the above propositions are considered.

You do realize that this is not a democracy, there is no voting.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 23, 2013, 09:55:59 PM
Besides democracy. It's self hiring  for 24/7 full time job. Not really encouraging perspective... Human is designed to have some sleep after all ;-)
But of course I'm voting for reinvesting in new hardware...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 24, 2013, 11:45:48 AM
Im not saying that is true but if one would have the plan to own an asic layout to be able to mine with self created asics it would be a good plan to collect money with a NRE, create the design, reward the investors and at the end you have an asic layout, enough money to order chips for yourself and you can build your own farm with 100% returns for yourself.

I DONT say its the case, only think it might be possible since its not logical to create a design and let it die then. And if the issuer planned to grow it like Asicminer he would have announced it from the start to attract more investors.

Only thinking...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 24, 2013, 05:47:31 PM
@OP... why dont you want to raise the TH you mine with constantly and make this a constant project? I mean you have access to miners at cost so you could make this into a second Asicminer. But when stopping at 200TH it will go down and end only.

I am also of the opinion that OP should take a vote or whatever needed to withhold some dividend (20% or so) for reinvestment if he can acquire hash rate at wholesale cost. Why stop at 200TH?

+1. Not only will this give shareholders good dividends, but will also vastly increase share price (more value here than even mining...at least short term). Also, saves Tytus the trouble of creating and managing separate securities for additional mines.

+1

I hope the above propositions are considered.

You do realize that this is not a democracy, there is no voting.

Of course not, but it might be useful for the founders to see that share holders are interested in a possible modification of the project structure and willing to forgo a percentage of early dividends for long time viability.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: JaredPWagner on August 25, 2013, 05:54:40 AM
New guy question here. So I read the entire thread
I find the product interesting and the business plan sound but
I was wondering about the price.

As of right now the shares are trading at 0.3 bitcoins per share.

Each share is worth 0.2 GH/share and the bitcoin price is around $110 per B

So to buy 400GH of capacity I would need 2000 shares

2000 shares at 0.3B per share cost 600B

600B at 110$ each cost $66,000

When they increase it to 2000TH or 0.4GH per share that
would still be $33,000 for 400GH

I am new to this. Am I making an error in my calculations?
Or are there reasons why it is worth this much?





 


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: BitThink on August 25, 2013, 09:20:44 AM
New guy question here. So I read the entire thread
I find the product interesting and the business plan sound but
I was wondering about the price.

As of right now the shares are trading at 0.3 bitcoins per share.

Each share is worth 0.2 GH/share and the bitcoin price is around $110 per B

So to buy 400GH of capacity I would need 2000 shares

2000 shares at 0.3B per share cost 600B

600B at 110$ each cost $66,000

When they increase it to 2000TH or 0.4GH per share that
would still be $33,000 for 400GH

I am new to this. Am I making an error in my calculations?
Or are there reasons why it is worth this much?





 

I think the first post of this thread said $4 per GH. If that was for 100TH, now should be $2 per GH.
I am not sure about the up-to-date data, but i am afraid yours could not be correct.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 25, 2013, 10:05:05 AM
This project is over half year old. Prices just went up. Free market. It will be first mine with that amount of hashing power. At least for 2-3 months. Or Tytus will announce that he will increase hashpower, then longer.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: l3sny on August 25, 2013, 11:57:34 AM
And I am almost sure he will. Therefore the shares are not over valued.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 25, 2013, 12:27:20 PM
And I am almost sure he will. Therefore the shares are not over valued.

Which might be a risky assumption. It really would be good to have an answer on that. If no answer comes i would take it as that he wont reinvest. I mean it would have helped from the start when he stated reinvestments.
Does this security has a spokesperson other than tytus? He was logged in yesterday but didnt post anything since 1 and 1/4 months now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: JaredPWagner on August 25, 2013, 01:19:42 PM
This project is over half year old. Prices just went up. Free market. It will be first mine with that amount of hashing power. At least for 2-3 months. Or Tytus will announce that he will increase hashpower, then longer.

IPO says they will issue more shares if/when they wish to expand.
I will keep an eye out here in case they do.

As of right now I see a great team, a well executed plan and
a stock price that fully prices those factors in.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: JaredPWagner on August 25, 2013, 01:35:09 PM

I think the first post of this thread said $4 per GH. If that was for 100TH, now should be $2 per GH.
I am not sure about the up-to-date data, but i am afraid yours could not be correct.

That was true at a share price of 0.04 B and bitcoin price in Feburary of around $20 for B
Stock price has gone up around 8X since then and bitcoin price by around 5X for a total
return to date of nearly 40X.




Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: BitThink on August 26, 2013, 01:49:59 AM

I think the first post of this thread said $4 per GH. If that was for 100TH, now should be $2 per GH.
I am not sure about the up-to-date data, but i am afraid yours could not be correct.

That was true at a share price of 0.04 B and bitcoin price in Feburary of around $20 for B
Stock price has gone up around 8X since then and bitcoin price by around 5X for a total
return to date of nearly 40X.




Yes, you are right. But if this price is correct, that is 0.75B/GH. It is too expensive. DMS.MINING on BTCT only costs 0.66B/GH currently. Considering there's no delay, no electricity cost, no downtime, no any glitch for DMS MINING since it is a virtual mining bond, I think the 100TH is still over priced.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Mobius on August 26, 2013, 01:53:38 AM

I think the first post of this thread said $4 per GH. If that was for 100TH, now should be $2 per GH.
I am not sure about the up-to-date data, but i am afraid yours could not be correct.

That was true at a share price of 0.04 B and bitcoin price in Feburary of around $20 for B
Stock price has gone up around 8X since then and bitcoin price by around 5X for a total
return to date of nearly 40X.




Yes, you are right. But if this price is correct, that is 0.75B/GH. It is too expensive. DMS.MINING on BTCT only costs 0.66B/GH currently. Considering there's no delay, no electricity cost, no downtime, no any glitch for DMS MINING since it is a virtual mining bond, I think the 100TH is still over priced.
Good for you, invest there and stay out of this thread, when the difference is how business is transacted, then come back.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: BitThink on August 26, 2013, 03:21:04 AM

I think the first post of this thread said $4 per GH. If that was for 100TH, now should be $2 per GH.
I am not sure about the up-to-date data, but i am afraid yours could not be correct.

That was true at a share price of 0.04 B and bitcoin price in Feburary of around $20 for B
Stock price has gone up around 8X since then and bitcoin price by around 5X for a total
return to date of nearly 40X.




Yes, you are right. But if this price is correct, that is 0.75B/GH. It is too expensive. DMS.MINING on BTCT only costs 0.66B/GH currently. Considering there's no delay, no electricity cost, no downtime, no any glitch for DMS MINING since it is a virtual mining bond, I think the 100TH is still over priced.
Good for you, invest there and stay out of this thread, when the difference is how business is transacted, then come back.

I think you maybe take me wrongly. I am not against this project. I just think the current stock price is too expensive. I may stay out of this stock now, but I think there's no reason for me to stay out of this thread.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Zubilica on August 26, 2013, 05:14:14 AM
Well , i guess this is official -> 200 terra Hash/s bitcoin mine using 55nm ASIC boards.

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 26, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
And I am almost sure he will. Therefore the shares are not over valued.

Which might be a risky assumption. It really would be good to have an answer on that. If no answer comes i would take it as that he wont reinvest. I mean it would have helped from the start when he stated reinvestments.
Does this security has a spokesperson other than tytus? He was logged in yesterday but didnt post anything since 1 and 1/4 months now.

I never really clarified that the reason I started updating this thread is due to a conversation I had with Tytus.  He was/is so busy, I suggested that I would keep you all informed.  So I guess I'm the spokesperson for now on this forum anyway.  Tytus still posts the picostocks reports.

Status of boards - as I noted before, final design bugs are ironed out and boards are in production.  Due to delays, we've increased the hashpower we will commit to this mine to 200TH.  I'm waiting to get a shipping notice from the factory - the first boards should be headed my way in 24 - 48 hours by my estimate, but I can only wait for them to ship.  Well, that and send multiple emails per day to the US VP sales.  First boards will be run for 24 hours or so in order to weed out underperforming or non-performing boards - this will all be sent to the mine.  After the August retail units are shipped, remaining boards will begin to accumulate hashpower for the mine.  I think we can put up 200TH in 30 days, but it remains to be seen what challenges there are.

The delays gave me an opportunity to jump on something for the datacenter without introducing future downtime to the mine.  I went ahead with the plan to double the power service to the building, which completed last week.  This provides quite a lot of power - 2400 amps of 208v (theoretically supporting about 500kW).  I have about 1500 amps routed out onto the floor now.  This extra power will give me some room to push the AC systems (25 tons) to the limit and see where we can max out temps.  I can add AC once I get a better sense of where the operational temperature ceiling is.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 26, 2013, 10:18:43 AM
Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like you work much on the project.

Can you tell if this is a one-time-project so that the security as it is now will slowly die after the 200TH are set up or are there plans to hold a certain hashrate in the net like Asicminer planned? Something like that?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on August 27, 2013, 06:45:06 PM
Wafers still need to be thinned, diced and packed. I'm expecting chips in ~2 weeks. Fingers crossed!

Is it ok if I uncross my fingers yet?

Oh look, another two weeks.

For all of the I dunno, two, three idiots shivering for the fate of their collective sub-Bitcoin "investment" in this particular scam, here's a little something: The positive market effects of the delivery bet (http://trilema.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/).

Picostocks generally, along with the imaginary farm are, as you might expect, just about at zero.

I never really clarified that the reason I started updating this thread is due to a conversation I had with Tytus.  He was/is so busy, I suggested that I would keep you all informed.

No, actually, the reason is that you are a professional liar. Having broken your credibility over the bASIC fiasco, you perceive yourself immune from prosecution and generally further ill effects, in the sense that once it comes to that there's already enough to sink you, and meanwhile might as well turn a buck doing more of the same, not like it makes a difference.

That, for your side. For his side, tytus is eager to insulate himself from the actual responsibility for the scam he's running, much like convicted felon Sonny Vleisides prefers to use Inaba to insulate himself, and much like the Jonathan Ryan Owens-Alberto Armandi (http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/) troop of scammers used the services of random clueless busybody Meni Rosenfeld.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on August 29, 2013, 12:20:42 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=250249.600


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Bitweasil on August 29, 2013, 05:00:04 AM
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=250249.600

Very nice.  What's the ETA on these arriving at 200TH and coming online?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on August 29, 2013, 06:46:25 AM
dividends seem to be coming in a little faster than normal...luck or more hashing power?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on August 29, 2013, 08:48:28 AM
dividends seem to be coming in a little faster than normal...luck or more hashing power?
Rather luck.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg3033194#msg3033194


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on August 29, 2013, 03:51:23 PM
Hi all, I'm expect units to begin arriving today.  The factory will ship more on a daily basis until they've finished our initial order.  We have more orders following that.  All board evaluation coin will be sent to the 200TH mine address.  I expect that after next week, we will have finished shipping and the boards will begin to accumulate in the datacenter.

Look for your divs to begin rising today!

All the best,
Dave


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: filharvey on August 29, 2013, 04:51:27 PM
What is the mine address and / or a site so we can see the hashing at the time. Yes, I understand that it will fluctuate, but would like to see us hashing.

Phil


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 29, 2013, 06:32:41 PM
Hi all, I'm expect units to begin arriving today.  The factory will ship more on a daily basis until they've finished our initial order.  We have more orders following that.  All board evaluation coin will be sent to the 200TH mine address.  I expect that after next week, we will have finished shipping and the boards will begin to accumulate in the datacenter.

Look for your divs to begin rising today!

All the best,
Dave

Do you have any thoughts on the idea of reinvestment-plan for continuous hash-rate increase after full roll-out? Is this something that the founders would consider?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Kushedout on August 29, 2013, 06:59:23 PM
Hi all, I'm expect units to begin arriving today.  The factory will ship more on a daily basis until they've finished our initial order.  We have more orders following that.  All board evaluation coin will be sent to the 200TH mine address.  I expect that after next week, we will have finished shipping and the boards will begin to accumulate in the datacenter.

Look for your divs to begin rising today!

All the best,
Dave

Do you have any thoughts on the idea of reinvestment-plan for continuous hash-rate increase after full roll-out? Is this something that the founders would consider?

I get the feeling this question will be ignored, as it has been for some time now. I am sure it will be answered eventually, when feasible.  We all know what will happen to the share price if the answer is, No.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 29, 2013, 09:30:57 PM
Hi all, I'm expect units to begin arriving today.  The factory will ship more on a daily basis until they've finished our initial order.  We have more orders following that.  All board evaluation coin will be sent to the 200TH mine address.  I expect that after next week, we will have finished shipping and the boards will begin to accumulate in the datacenter.

Look for your divs to begin rising today!

All the best,
Dave

Do you have any thoughts on the idea of reinvestment-plan for continuous hash-rate increase after full roll-out? Is this something that the founders would consider?

I get the feeling this question will be ignored, as it has been for some time now. I am sure it will be answered eventually, when feasible.  We all know what will happen to the share price if the answer is, No.

I think thats why there wont be an answer to this. I didnt invest because of it. It would be too strange when they start to state only now that they want to reinvest.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Pale Phoenix on August 29, 2013, 09:55:42 PM
I was looking back through the thread for some information and came across this:


Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.

So unless their thinking has changed, it seems they do not intend to enter into a reinvestment / expansion arrangement.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 29, 2013, 10:00:19 PM
I was looking back through the thread for some information and came across this:


Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.

So unless their thinking has changed, it seems they do not intend to enter into a reinvestment / expansion arrangement.

I wouldn't make any assumptions. The founders own a SIGNIFICANT amount of shares and are obviously invested in the success of the Project as share holders. I doubt either of them will make any decisions that are not fundamentally sound.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: superduh on August 29, 2013, 10:04:49 PM
I was looking back through the thread for some information and came across this:


Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.

So unless their thinking has changed, it seems they do not intend to enter into a reinvestment / expansion arrangement.

I wouldn't make any assumptions. The founders own a SIGNIFICANT amount of shares and are obviously invested in the success of the Project as share holders. I doubt either of them will make any decisions that are not fundamentally sound.

their fundamentally sound decision would to start another enterprise using the coins they generate from 100th mine (now 200th?) without including other shareholders of 100th. they have no need to compensate others since it was never stated in their initial plan and they never even hinted at it. yes they can do it. but why would they? they can completely self mine (like bitfury is doing now) and just retain all dividends to themselves. as long as they do what they promised in the 100th they are doing things correctly. i'm sure people would love reinvestment at cost but what do they have to gain from doing that.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on August 29, 2013, 10:20:16 PM
Hi all, I'm expect units to begin arriving today.  The factory will ship more on a daily basis until they've finished our initial order.  We have more orders following that.  All board evaluation coin will be sent to the 200TH mine address.  I expect that after next week, we will have finished shipping and the boards will begin to accumulate in the datacenter.

Look for your divs to begin rising today!

All the best,
Dave

Do you have any thoughts on the idea of reinvestment-plan for continuous hash-rate increase after full roll-out? Is this something that the founders would consider?

I get the feeling this question will be ignored, as it has been for some time now. I am sure it will be answered eventually, when feasible.  We all know what will happen to the share price if the answer is, No.

I think thats why there wont be an answer to this. I didnt invest because of it. It would be too strange when they start to state only now that they want to reinvest.

I'm optimistic and hope 100TH is waiting to see how things go before announcing the additional shareholder compensation in the form of a 10-20 TH reinvestment fund.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 30, 2013, 08:19:55 PM
I was looking back through the thread for some information and came across this:


Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.

So unless their thinking has changed, it seems they do not intend to enter into a reinvestment / expansion arrangement.

I wouldn't make any assumptions. The founders own a SIGNIFICANT amount of shares and are obviously invested in the success of the Project as share holders. I doubt either of them will make any decisions that are not fundamentally sound.

their fundamentally sound decision would to start another enterprise using the coins they generate from 100th mine (now 200th?) without including other shareholders of 100th. they have no need to compensate others since it was never stated in their initial plan and they never even hinted at it. yes they can do it. but why would they? they can completely self mine (like bitfury is doing now) and just retain all dividends to themselves. as long as they do what they promised in the 100th they are doing things correctly. i'm sure people would love reinvestment at cost but what do they have to gain from doing that.

I don't think you "get it". The main shareholders in 100TH are still the founders. It's not about "compensating" shareholders, but rather creating profit for shareholders, what to a very large extent means the founders profiting.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 30, 2013, 09:27:03 PM
I was looking back through the thread for some information and came across this:


Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.

So unless their thinking has changed, it seems they do not intend to enter into a reinvestment / expansion arrangement.

I wouldn't make any assumptions. The founders own a SIGNIFICANT amount of shares and are obviously invested in the success of the Project as share holders. I doubt either of them will make any decisions that are not fundamentally sound.

their fundamentally sound decision would to start another enterprise using the coins they generate from 100th mine (now 200th?) without including other shareholders of 100th. they have no need to compensate others since it was never stated in their initial plan and they never even hinted at it. yes they can do it. but why would they? they can completely self mine (like bitfury is doing now) and just retain all dividends to themselves. as long as they do what they promised in the 100th they are doing things correctly. i'm sure people would love reinvestment at cost but what do they have to gain from doing that.

I don't think you "get it". The main shareholders in 100TH are still the founders. It's not about "compensating" shareholders, but rather creating profit for shareholders, what to a very large extent means the founders profiting.

Yes, but he means the reason for not reinvesting is that the 100TH mine is deployed and then slowly will die. Then the earnings they founders got are used to build their own miners besides 100TH because they now have the asic design and enough money for it. This way they get 100% profit instead less.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on August 31, 2013, 08:02:56 AM
Quoting the same again and again? Cut it, please.

Tytus is now engaged with the 100TH, but it was just planned to stimulate picostocks.com, which should be in future a platform for "kickstarting" different scientific projects.
When the 100TH runs at full speed, he will have time for decisions. If reinvesting can help to stimulate (I think it can), he may go this way.
(My opinion is based on the businessplans and what Tytus wrote.)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on August 31, 2013, 02:44:47 PM
Hi all, I'm expect units to begin arriving today.  The factory will ship more on a daily basis until they've finished our initial order.  We have more orders following that.  All board evaluation coin will be sent to the 200TH mine address.  I expect that after next week, we will have finished shipping and the boards will begin to accumulate in the datacenter.

Look for your divs to begin rising today!

All the best,
Dave

Herp.

The imaginary units that have arrived and nobody's seen two days later are the reason your "dividends" are increasing. Definitely not ponzi, because Broken Reputation Guy on a lolforum says so.

This thread is about as good as Tortilla's Sauna Adventures, fo' sho'.

What is the mine address and / or a site so we can see the hashing at the time. Yes, I understand that it will fluctuate, but would like to see us hashing.

Phil

They can't do that for the obvious reason. If you push it enough maybe the plan could be adjusted to include buying some hashing GPUMax style, but as it is it's not something this particularly sloppy troop of scammers thought of, so....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on August 31, 2013, 03:15:57 PM
I was looking back through the thread for some information and came across this:


Will the capacity be expanded?
This is not planed. This would complicate the deal. There is still sufficient variability of profitability due to the unpredictable network hash rate and btc price. It is possible that the mine generates revenues that are higher that the presented optimistic scenario.

So unless their thinking has changed, it seems they do not intend to enter into a reinvestment / expansion arrangement.

I wouldn't make any assumptions. The founders own a SIGNIFICANT amount of shares and are obviously invested in the success of the Project as share holders. I doubt either of them will make any decisions that are not fundamentally sound.

their fundamentally sound decision would to start another enterprise using the coins they generate from 100th mine (now 200th?) without including other shareholders of 100th. they have no need to compensate others since it was never stated in their initial plan and they never even hinted at it. yes they can do it. but why would they? they can completely self mine (like bitfury is doing now) and just retain all dividends to themselves. as long as they do what they promised in the 100th they are doing things correctly. i'm sure people would love reinvestment at cost but what do they have to gain from doing that.

I don't think you "get it". The main shareholders in 100TH are still the founders. It's not about "compensating" shareholders, but rather creating profit for shareholders, what to a very large extent means the founders profiting.

Yes, but he means the reason for not reinvesting is that the 100TH mine is deployed and then slowly will die. Then the earnings they founders got are used to build their own miners besides 100TH because they now have the asic design and enough money for it. This way they get 100% profit instead less.

Semi-true. I would prob argue that it is just as profitable, if not more to just use partial withholding and bank from 100TH to expand and keep the operation alive vs. leaving it to slowly die with lower and lower dividends just to set up a parallel new operation.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on August 31, 2013, 04:21:54 PM
Semi-true. I would prob argue that it is just as profitable, if not more to just use partial withholding and bank from 100TH to expand and keep the operation alive vs. leaving it to slowly die with lower and lower dividends just to set up a parallel new operation.

I wonder why you think so. The difference is only where you invest the returns. You could invest it in 100TH again and get 50% or invest in a private pool and get 100%. Or do i miss a point?

@RHA... unfortunately its a believe only. I mean if such things are possible the value in publishing this plans would gain more than keeping it open and not even mentioning it. Thats why i tend to believe that its not planned. And that they dont address it now when so much is spoken about is another point. As long as this isnt addressed i take it as a hint that its not planned and i wont buy in.
By saying that... the founder wont bother if i invest or not now anymore. Thats why i said that info would be have been helpful at IPO. At least i would have brought it up to ensure the IPO is successful.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on September 01, 2013, 09:22:50 AM
I wonder why you think so. The difference is only where you invest the returns. You could invest it in 100TH again and get 50% or invest in a private pool and get 100%. Or do i miss a point?

The big payoff is not from mining, but from share price.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 01, 2013, 11:40:29 AM
The small dividend comes roughly every 6 hours today, does that mean that the new boards are online?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 01, 2013, 11:46:35 AM
Propably testing that Dave is running. We should see that at some point divis will increase and equipment will mine only for 200TH mine.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on September 01, 2013, 12:44:18 PM
I wonder why you think so. The difference is only where you invest the returns. You could invest it in 100TH again and get 50% or invest in a private pool and get 100%. Or do i miss a point?

The big payoff is not from mining, but from share price.

That would only apply to normal shareholders. But the founder in fact doesnt need to bother about the shareprice. They cant sell their shares because they would crash the security this way. First because of the amount of shares they have and because it would be a very bad sign if the founder wouldnt trust in their security anymore.
So the share price is not much worth to the founder and their income.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on September 01, 2013, 02:09:57 PM
That would only apply to normal shareholders. But the founder in fact doesnt need to bother about the shareprice. They cant sell their shares because they would crash the security this way. First because of the amount of shares they have and because it would be a very bad sign if the founder wouldnt trust in their security anymore.
So the share price is not much worth to the founder and their income.

It boggles me how fucking stupid you are. Seriously now, if they ever need a picture to illustrate the concept of "knot of mistaken assumptions and erroneous beliefs built out of complete theoretical ignorance reinforced with very limited and thoroughly misunderstood experience" you should volunteer yours. Absolutely the only positive contribution to the field you can make by this point.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on September 01, 2013, 04:27:17 PM
That would only apply to normal shareholders. But the founder in fact doesnt need to bother about the shareprice. They cant sell their shares because they would crash the security this way. First because of the amount of shares they have and because it would be a very bad sign if the founder wouldnt trust in their security anymore.
So the share price is not much worth to the founder and their income.

It boggles me how fucking stupid you are. Seriously now, if they ever need a picture to illustrate the concept of "knot of mistaken assumptions and erroneous beliefs built out of complete theoretical ignorance reinforced with very limited and thoroughly misunderstood experience" you should volunteer yours. Absolutely the only positive contribution to the field you can make by this point.

I wonder what you mean. Are you claiming the founders can sell? In fact im not really interested in your answer. You paragraph is something i would rather look away disgusted by thinking about what person would write this way.
Werent you the one that only recently wrote an article why Asicminer was a complete fail? I live from Asicminer... so now you tell me i dont understand anything... right.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on September 01, 2013, 06:04:10 PM
I wonder what you mean. Are you claiming the founders can sell? In fact im not really interested in your answer. You paragraph is something i would rather look away disgusted by thinking about what person would write this way.
Werent you the one that only recently wrote an article why Asicminer was a complete fail? I live from Asicminer... so now you tell me i dont understand anything... right.

Yes. IF they were to change the terms of the mine, then it would drive the value of the shares up. If the value goes up, so will share price. Conversion to a reinvestment/business type security works better than offering a new mine because the existing mine can be used as a basis for on-going operations. The mine gives investors confidence in the converted security because it is a tangible bitcoin producing asset.

Asicminer currently has around 37TH/s and shares on passthroughs are slightly over 2BTC (previously 4+ BTC). Although no one can predict what the market will price converted shares at (also depends on conversion terms), the current and historical price of AM might provide a reference for price range of converted shares. IMO, with margins on the hardware side dropping quickly, a converted security would probably be most profitable (at least in the short/mid term and possibly long term).

Anyway, Tytus is busy getting the current mine deployed, so he probably won't consider conversion until the mine is deployed (with the additional 100TH this might take a while).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 01, 2013, 06:09:35 PM
Looks like more hardware is under test. Dividends are showing faster, curently each half hour 1BTC is droping in...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mumung on September 01, 2013, 06:20:04 PM
Yeah, I noticed that too. :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Isokivi on September 01, 2013, 06:53:09 PM
Excuse me but isnt this new divident payment only accumulating dust to my pico stocks account, costing a buttload in tx-fees when I want to move it ?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on September 01, 2013, 07:03:10 PM
Excuse me but isnt this new divident payment only accumulating dust to my pico stocks account, costing a buttload in tx-fees when I want to move it ?


You're not paid until you cash out. Until then, the btc is in a picostock controlled address (in bulk).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on September 01, 2013, 09:56:40 PM
I wonder what you mean. Are you claiming the founders can sell? In fact im not really interested in your answer. You paragraph is something i would rather look away disgusted by thinking about what person would write this way.
Werent you the one that only recently wrote an article why Asicminer was a complete fail? I live from Asicminer... so now you tell me i dont understand anything... right.

Yes. IF they were to change the terms of the mine, then it would drive the value of the shares up. If the value goes up, so will share price. Conversion to a reinvestment/business type security works better than offering a new mine because the existing mine can be used as a basis for on-going operations. The mine gives investors confidence in the converted security because it is a tangible bitcoin producing asset.

Asicminer currently has around 37TH/s and shares on passthroughs are slightly over 2BTC (previously 4+ BTC). Although no one can predict what the market will price converted shares at (also depends on conversion terms), the current and historical price of AM might provide a reference for price range of converted shares. IMO, with margins on the hardware side dropping quickly, a converted security would probably be most profitable (at least in the short/mid term and possibly long term).

Anyway, Tytus is busy getting the current mine deployed, so he probably won't consider conversion until the mine is deployed (with the additional 100TH this might take a while).

Thats indeed a strange setting and i agree that the possibility that founders can sell all their shares anytime is not giving confidence. Together with the silence regarding reinvestments the only risk they would have then would be that the selling of all their shares would be more than the market could eat. But why should they care then when cashing out?
Im glad for the moment that i didnt invest. I think there are other projects with less doubts.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mumung on September 02, 2013, 01:10:52 AM
Seems like picostocks.com is corrupted.
Anything we should know buzzdave?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on September 02, 2013, 01:40:38 AM
So....
Website update in progress?
Or something more sinister....

 


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Bitweasil on September 02, 2013, 01:43:35 AM
Or something more sinister....

If so, very well done. :-/  Got a bunch of my btc.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 02, 2013, 01:45:00 AM
Seem like the website upgrade, the homepage is changed.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 02, 2013, 05:50:30 AM
Can someone clarify what's wrong with the pics webiste? This is really annoying. My assert is there, but I cannot access it.
Is it gone?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lenny_ on September 02, 2013, 06:33:22 AM
https://picostocks.com/users/login
Code:
Not Found

Error: The requested address '/users/login' was not found on this server.
Tytus, any info?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 02, 2013, 06:37:57 AM
mybe the 200TH 's hashrate is too high, so the website was down,still can not log in!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: l3sny on September 02, 2013, 07:37:28 AM
site maintenance without warning? dodgy....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on September 02, 2013, 07:46:50 AM
I've called BioInfoBank. The secretary will contact Leszek Rychlewski (tytus) and let him know about the problem.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lenny_ on September 02, 2013, 07:49:14 AM
Maybe they just got hacked and all bitcoins in hot wallet are gone? ;) Just guessing.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 02, 2013, 10:04:11 AM
Tytus keeps saying:
"everything will be fine"  ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kaerf on September 02, 2013, 10:05:12 AM
Website now says.
Quote
We have a hardware error. No data is lost. Sorry for the inconvenience. We will be up soon.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on September 02, 2013, 11:20:07 PM
Website now says.
Quote
We have a hardware error. No data is lost. Sorry for the inconvenience. We will be up soon.
Another day here.Still down.. ???


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on September 03, 2013, 12:20:42 AM
Any news on this issue?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 03, 2013, 12:59:33 AM
i want to log in to see the dividends!!!!!!!faint


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 03, 2013, 01:27:52 AM
me too


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on September 03, 2013, 01:35:22 AM
i want to log in to see the dividends!!!!!!!faint
dividend address: https://blockchain.info/address/19t7RxwXdfiwQMyQ3JVB16e9HgV7omijSs


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 03, 2013, 02:25:14 AM
it seems the hashrate is going up and up, good to see it.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 03, 2013, 06:53:23 AM
Looks like serious hardware malfunction. Propably some server died and they waiting for new one (or spare parts).


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on September 03, 2013, 07:02:49 AM
28 BTC in a day. It was about 4 TH/s.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Transisto on September 03, 2013, 07:32:33 AM
Where is the statement for this outage?

Down for 3 days at the exact time the mining start... And no eta...

This exchange cant require much more than a netbook to run.   Hardware issue,  how serious?



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on September 03, 2013, 08:02:20 AM
Take it easy. It's only the web server which is out of order. And for 1.5 day, not 3.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on September 03, 2013, 03:02:26 PM
Picostocks hardware fail over Labor Day, nothing to do with 200TH but it would be fun to see dividends trickling in and what effect this is going to have on share price.

Seems to be mining at around 6TH now @ ballpark 44 BTC/day and steadily increasing.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 03, 2013, 06:13:07 PM
Hi guys - we ran 6-7TH over the last 24 hours, but now is shipping time.  Most of this tested hardware will go out the door today.  We just received about 1000 more H-boards today and will start the process all over again.  We need only a few of these boards to finish August shipping, so the rest will begin building the mine.  More boards throughout the week!

We've got a great process worked out for speeding up the rollout of the boards.  It allows us to deploy a lot of hashpower quickly.  The boards can be a bit tricky, but I think we've got this figured out.

Cheers,
Dave


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on September 03, 2013, 06:39:49 PM
i want to log in to see the dividends!!!!!!!faint
dividend address: https://blockchain.info/address/19t7RxwXdfiwQMyQ3JVB16e9HgV7omijSs

Quick, somebody plug this address into the various AsicMiner watching sites!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on September 03, 2013, 06:52:30 PM
Hi guys - we ran 6-7TH over the last 24 hours, but now is shipping time.  Most of this tested hardware will go out the door today.  We just received about 1000 more H-boards today and will start the process all over again.  We need only a few of these boards to finish August shipping, so the rest will begin building the mine.  More boards throughout the week!

We've got a great process worked out for speeding up the rollout of the boards.  It allows us to deploy a lot of hashpower quickly.  The boards can be a bit tricky, but I think we've got this figured out.

Cheers,
Dave
Wonderful news Dave :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on September 03, 2013, 07:13:52 PM
Hi guys - we ran 6-7TH over the last 24 hours, but now is shipping time.  Most of this tested hardware will go out the door today.  We just received about 1000 more H-boards today and will start the process all over again.  We need only a few of these boards to finish August shipping, so the rest will begin building the mine.  More boards throughout the week!

We've got a great process worked out for speeding up the rollout of the boards.  It allows us to deploy a lot of hashpower quickly.  The boards can be a bit tricky, but I think we've got this figured out.

Cheers,
Dave

So my average of 6TH wasn't that far off, and if only "a few" of 1000 H boards are needed for shipping, and I'm not mistaken we should pass 15TH handily this week.

Very nice!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: filharvey on September 03, 2013, 08:02:25 PM
This is definitely good news, and nice to see the power coming on. Just need to be able to log in to see the div's and coins coming in.

Phil


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 03, 2013, 10:20:58 PM
Tytus has some technical difficulty with the site - I'm sure he's working on it.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: goxed on September 04, 2013, 02:34:57 AM
Tytus has some technical difficulty with the site - I'm sure he's working on it.
Hope all's good with the site data.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: iCEBREAKER on September 04, 2013, 06:49:56 AM
Tytus has some technical difficulty with the site - I'm sure he's working on it.
Hope all's good with the site data.

3 days of downtime, at precisely the long-awaited, much delayed moment of triumph, is not a nice thing for patient early investors wishing to take some well deserved profit.

Picostocks was OK for the IPO, but can't handle consistent uptime, much less appreciable trade volume.

Time to move to a real (IE non-single asset based) exchange, or at least set up a passthrough.

Enough amateur hour, 200TH is ready for prime time!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: server on September 04, 2013, 11:36:42 AM
Hello?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kakobrekla on September 04, 2013, 11:46:42 AM
Hello?

Yes, this is dog.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: hasher87 on September 04, 2013, 12:07:53 PM
http://s8.favim.com/orig/72/comic-cute-funny-haha-Favim.com-689027.jpg


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Kushedout on September 04, 2013, 02:57:46 PM
Status update?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Bitweasil on September 04, 2013, 03:02:51 PM
"So long and thanks for all the bitcoin"?

There's still flow into the dividend account, at least.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: HeRetiK on September 04, 2013, 08:11:50 PM
There's no business like coin business...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on September 04, 2013, 08:25:13 PM

3 days of downtime, at precisely the long-awaited, much delayed moment of triumph, is not a nice thing for patient early investors wishing to take some well deserved profit.

Picostocks was OK for the IPO, but can't handle consistent uptime, much less appreciable trade volume.

Time to move to a real (IE non-single asset based) exchange, or at least set up a passthrough.

Enough amateur hour, 200TH is ready for prime time!

Have to give a thumbs up to the pass through idea.

Any big investors interested on working with me on this?

I think we'd need some 10,000-30,000 shares to ipo, after that batches of 5,000 could be added at market price.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: kleeck on September 04, 2013, 08:38:53 PM

3 days of downtime, at precisely the long-awaited, much delayed moment of triumph, is not a nice thing for patient early investors wishing to take some well deserved profit.

Picostocks was OK for the IPO, but can't handle consistent uptime, much less appreciable trade volume.

Time to move to a real (IE non-single asset based) exchange, or at least set up a passthrough.

Enough amateur hour, 200TH is ready for prime time!

Have to give a thumbs up to the pass through idea.

Any big investors interested on working with me on this?

I think we'd need some 10,000-30,000 shares to ipo, after that batches of 5,000 could be added at market price.

What is the current share value?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: mumung on September 04, 2013, 08:46:39 PM
Before the website crashed the prices were:
bid: ~0.27 btc
ask: ~0.33 btc

since it is mining now with greater intensity, prices
might have gone up. we will see.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on September 04, 2013, 08:50:59 PM
Before the website crashed the prices were:
bid: ~0.27 btc
ask: ~0.33 btc

since it is mining now with greater intensity, prices
might have gone up. we will see.

30 day average was about 0.45 so I am going to guess we will open somewhere around/over that.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on September 05, 2013, 03:11:29 AM
3.73 x 24 as daily mining income from what it looks like right now, so around 12-14 TH online it seems.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: l3sny on September 05, 2013, 08:47:48 AM
I think that in this situation all buy\sell orders should be cancelled or trading suspended for a while to adjust the prices.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 05, 2013, 09:02:41 AM
When the website can be up online? I need to withdraw some bitcoins to pay my rent.

Thanks!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: FoxMURDER on September 05, 2013, 09:05:14 AM
this hardware problem looks like the whole building collapsed :-O


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 05, 2013, 10:10:56 AM
i have a bad feelings 。the website seems to have a big problem。


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 05, 2013, 10:43:12 AM
Website back on Saturday / Sunday


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on September 05, 2013, 10:51:28 AM
Website back on Saturday / Sunday
How do you know?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 05, 2013, 11:19:54 AM
How do you know?

I spoke with Leszek


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 05, 2013, 11:25:16 AM
No to nieźle musiało się coś sypnąć. Pewnie czeka na nowy sprzęt lub części zamienne....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 05, 2013, 11:31:38 AM
No to nieźle musiało się coś sypnąć. Pewnie czeka na nowy sprzęt lub części zamienne....
To nie polski wątek ;)
ale wszystko ma być dobrze, wszelkie dane, portfele itp są zachowane.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on September 05, 2013, 11:32:07 AM
I spoke with Leszek
No to nieźle musiało się coś sypnąć. Pewnie czeka na nowy sprzęt lub części zamienne....
google translate:
Code:
Well it had to be something pretty lavish. Probably waiting for new equipment or spare parts ....


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: server on September 05, 2013, 11:32:53 AM
More usefull information/an explanation would be appreciated.

Can we expect more of this downtime in the future ?

(you seem to have a webserver available that works quite well...)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: l3sny on September 05, 2013, 12:36:51 PM
No to nieźle musiało się coś sypnąć. Pewnie czeka na nowy sprzęt lub części zamienne....
To nie polski wątek ;)
ale wszystko ma być dobrze, wszelkie dane, portfele itp są zachowane.
can you please confirm if the buy\sell orders will be cancelled or suspended?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 05, 2013, 12:37:58 PM
The price of the bitcoin starts to drop down.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: bitbytes on September 05, 2013, 12:51:51 PM
Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy

More usefull information/an explanation would be appreciated.

Can we expect more of this downtime in the future ?

(you seem to have a webserver available that works quite well...)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 05, 2013, 12:57:21 PM
can you please confirm if the buy\sell orders will be cancelled or suspended?


Leszek does not change anything.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 05, 2013, 01:46:41 PM
3.73 x 24 as daily mining income from what it looks like right now, so around 12-14 TH online it seems.
Looking at blockchain addressess it may be a user 50274 at btcguild. 15TH/s 2nd  place. It's low user number (but <40 blocks found) so it may be an old Dave account.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 06, 2013, 07:59:03 AM
still down,come on!!!i can‘t believe it。


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 06, 2013, 08:20:08 AM
Website back on Saturday / Sunday
Problems with reading?
Dividends are increasing, when you log in you will be happy ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 06, 2013, 08:53:26 AM
We are hashing about 18TH now (have been for a day or so) - should be approaching 100 coins a day going to the mine.  Much, much more coming tomorrow through Monday.  Customs in Alaska decided to sit on my stuff for a few days but a few boxes still got through.  Everything I have is hashing.

We have about two more days of filling orders for August sales & then everything else stays in the mine...we'll get there guys!

I don't know the status of picostocks, Tytus runs that, and has been working on it.  I can try to gather info for you though.  I've just been focused on bringing up the hashpower & sending it to the mine.

Best,
Dave


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: maxmint on September 06, 2013, 09:01:46 AM
We are hashing about 18TH now (have been for a day or so) - should be approaching 100 coins a day going to the mine.  Much, much more coming tomorrow through Monday.  Customs in Alaska decided to sit on my stuff for a few days but a few boxes still got through.  Everything I have is hashing.

We have about two more days of filling orders for August sales & then everything else stays in the mine...we'll get there guys!

I don't know the status of picostocks, Tytus runs that, and has been working on it.  I can try to gather info for you though.  I've just been focused on bringing up the hashpower & sending it to the mine.

Best,
Dave

Thanks for the info Dave.
After such a long website downtime, an official statement from Tytus would really be appreciated.
If this was my operation I would make sure my investors get updates on a timely basis.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 06, 2013, 09:52:02 AM
We are hashing about 18TH now (have been for a day or so) - should be approaching 100 coins a day going to the mine.  Much, much more coming tomorrow through Monday.  Customs in Alaska decided to sit on my stuff for a few days but a few boxes still got through.  Everything I have is hashing.

We have about two more days of filling orders for August sales & then everything else stays in the mine...we'll get there guys!

I don't know the status of picostocks, Tytus runs that, and has been working on it.  I can try to gather info for you though.  I've just been focused on bringing up the hashpower & sending it to the mine.

Best,
Dave
So, I guessed that user 50274 on BTCguild is you?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 06, 2013, 02:15:10 PM
seems picostocks alive, but still can not log in.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dben428 on September 06, 2013, 02:15:41 PM
seems picostocks alive, but still can not log in.

Indeed the site is up. I was able to log in.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 06, 2013, 02:19:35 PM
I also can log in but can't trade and buy more shares. After last check my divis went up 2,5 times ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 06, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
seems picostocks alive, but still can not log in.

Indeed the site is up. I was able to log in.

 no, i can log in too,but the question is that when you log in,it will quit imediately,because i can't buy and sell.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: chstls on September 06, 2013, 02:38:12 PM
seems picostocks alive, but still can not log in.

Indeed the site is up. I was able to log in.

 no, i can log in too,but the question is that when you log in,it will quit imediately,because i can't buy and sell.

so did i


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on September 06, 2013, 02:43:18 PM
no, i can log in too,but the question is that when you log in,it will quit imediately,because i can't buy and sell.
It's midnight here,time to sleep.
So,I guess,no more cheap shares when I wake up in the morning...
damn >:(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 06, 2013, 03:19:58 PM
The website is turned off for 2 hours. bug fixes   ::)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 06, 2013, 04:05:30 PM
Yep it was buggy...
At least looks like data is not corrupted...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 06, 2013, 06:07:35 PM
pico is up, but Tytus is testing & took it back offline for a bit.  Rest assured its all in-tact and will be up & running again soon.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 06, 2013, 07:28:20 PM
Website - ok
Login - ok
thx Tytus


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on September 06, 2013, 08:17:06 PM
Dividends:

BTC5/day for weeks

now rough average BTC70 a day for the last 4 days assuming a lot...

looking up, even thought the exchange just suffered a major crash.

Trades are possible again.



Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 06, 2013, 08:55:41 PM
We are over 100BTC per day right now - and I expect that to continue into next week.  Look for large increases by end of next week.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 06, 2013, 08:59:13 PM
Dividends:

BTC5/day for weeks

now rough average BTC70 a day for the last 4 days assuming a lot...

looking up, even thought the exchange just suffered a major crash.

Trades are possible again.


It should soon be 600-650 BTC / day, when mine starts operate at full speed.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on September 06, 2013, 09:00:27 PM
Were are the div-payment stats at picostocks? Can one see it only when logged in?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on September 06, 2013, 09:03:28 PM
By the way... is there no thread for that exchange? I think its a bit strange that only 3 securities are there. And i now tried to register, copied an address of mine into the reg-form and it tells me the address is invalid... its a valid bitcoin address...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 06, 2013, 09:09:57 PM
Were are the div-payment stats at picostocks? Can one see it only when logged in?
You don't need to be logged in. Here you can see dividends:
https://picostocks.com/stocks/bitcoins/19


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Isokivi on September 06, 2013, 09:18:15 PM
By the way... is there no thread for that exchange? I think its a bit strange that only 3 securities are there. And i now tried to register, copied an address of mine into the reg-form and it tells me the address is invalid... its a valid bitcoin address...
Heres the thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133147.
The upper adress in your account is a deposit address, the lower is an internal one for dividents


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on September 06, 2013, 09:31:03 PM
By the way... is there no thread for that exchange? I think its a bit strange that only 3 securities are there. And i now tried to register, copied an address of mine into the reg-form and it tells me the address is invalid... its a valid bitcoin address...
Heres the thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133147.
The upper adress in your account is a deposit address, the lower is an internal one for dividents

Thanks, but i dont see those addresses since i cant register. They claim my bitcoin address is invalid... ill ask in that thread...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: lenny_ on September 06, 2013, 09:37:15 PM
Where we can check current hashrate of the mine?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: SebastianJu on September 06, 2013, 09:52:20 PM
Erm... with another try it suddenly accepted the address but now... i cant find the order form... I only see stats... strange design...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: maxmint on September 06, 2013, 10:07:45 PM
... strange design...

The site isn't all about usability...
But good to see it back online.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: nwfella on September 06, 2013, 10:53:30 PM
Where we can check current hashrate of the mine?

+1


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 06, 2013, 10:59:16 PM
Where we can check current hashrate of the mine?

I'll have public-viewable stats about the mine, power usage and other info in the coming weeks...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: silvermario on September 06, 2013, 11:09:23 PM
Erm... with another try it suddenly accepted the address but now... i cant find the order form... I only see stats... strange design...

You have to have fund deposited in your account to see the order form.

You should to hurry up if you would like catch some cheap shares, those will be gone in a couple of hours :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Kushedout on September 06, 2013, 11:11:44 PM
Suggestions for the site: 2FA


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dRMergatroid on September 06, 2013, 11:17:15 PM
Dividends:
BTC5/day for weeks
now rough average BTC70 a day for the last 4 days assuming a lot..
It should soon be 600-650 BTC / day, when mine starts operate at full speed.

I'd prefer BTC 1157 per day at 200TH ....

roughly equivalent to 100TH a month ago...

roughly, cause since then there's real world things like
rent...
bills...
loans...


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 06, 2013, 11:24:47 PM
seems still on trades,where is everyone?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: nwfella on September 06, 2013, 11:32:59 PM
Where we can check current hashrate of the mine?

I'll have public-viewable stats about the mine, power usage and other info in the coming weeks...

Good enough for me!!

Hope to pick up a couple more shares a bit later this evening. Congratulations buzzdave and bitfury for actually getting this stuff online and into the hands of the people! An amazing feat IMHO. Good to see some competition springing up for (cough cough BFL).

Also curious about implementation of 2FA if at all possible? Just makes me feel a heck of a lot more comfortable...and the more change I can throw your direction, the heck of alot more comfortable it's speedier implementation would make me no...yes?!?! (yoda voice)

*After giving it a bit of thought I guess the 2FA question above would be more of a PicoStock-oriented question wouldn't it?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: silvermario on September 07, 2013, 12:15:51 AM
seems still on trades,where is everyone?

https://picostocks.com/stocks/transactions/19

No trades? ;)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 07, 2013, 09:09:26 AM
Congratulations buzzdave and bitfury ...
Well, bitfury has nothing to do with this mine. This mine only uses chips that bitfury designed. Rest is in Tytus hands and mind... He choosed bitfury as a chip designer and Dave (megabigpower) as host to the mine.

There were some trades. Price already jumped 0.06.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: chstls on September 07, 2013, 12:10:24 PM
the trade is ok now,but the price is not so ok :(


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MRKLYE on September 07, 2013, 12:26:11 PM
Shares are shittanked. BUY EM WHILE THEY ARE CHEAP!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: snowdropfore on September 07, 2013, 01:54:54 PM
cause 200th is PMB, that means it will died anyway,so the shares price will not change a lot ,no one will buy the PMB, it seems so many share holders want to out ,because they have  too many shares want to sell,but so little people want to buy .


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: chstls on September 07, 2013, 02:06:17 PM
cause 200th is PMB, that means it will died anyway,so the shares price will not change a lot ,no one will buy the PMB, it seems so many share holders want to out ,because they have  too many shares want to sell,but so little people want to buy .
so i guess,people buy 100th due to the dividens?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: nwfella on September 07, 2013, 05:57:34 PM
Congratulations buzzdave and bitfury ...
Well, bitfury has nothing to do with this mine. This mine only uses chips that bitfury designed. Rest is in Tytus hands and mind... He choosed bitfury as a chip designer and Dave (megabigpower) as host to the mine.

There were some trades. Price already jumped 0.06.

I stand corrected (thank you sir). So, in lieu of this new information, Tytus you are the man, excellent chip mister bitfury, and Dave for his involvement with hosting.

Strange to me that it dropped by ~bit-nickle since I last checked...will try to get another one on the cheap :)


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Isokivi on September 07, 2013, 05:59:16 PM
I assume the 100Th mine will eventually solo-mine, but the regular dividents at this stage would suggest pooled mining, which pool is in use ?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dben428 on September 07, 2013, 06:04:06 PM
I assume the 100Th mine will eventually solo-mine, but the regular dividents at this stage would suggest pooled mining, which pool is in use ?

BTC Guild was the guess as of a couple pages back. User 50274 is now up to first place, with close to 20 TH.

3.73 x 24 as daily mining income from what it looks like right now, so around 12-14 TH online it seems.
Looking at blockchain addressess it may be a user 50274 at btcguild. 15TH/s 2nd  place. It's low user number (but <40 blocks found) so it may be an old Dave account.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Isokivi on September 07, 2013, 06:06:15 PM
I assume the 100Th mine will eventually solo-mine, but the regular dividents at this stage would suggest pooled mining, which pool is in use ?

BTC Guild was the guess as of a couple pages back. User 50274 is now up to first place, with close to 20 TH.

3.73 x 24 as daily mining income from what it looks like right now, so around 12-14 TH online it seems.
Looking at blockchain addressess it may be a user 50274 at btcguild. 15TH/s 2nd  place. It's low user number (but <40 blocks found) so it may be an old Dave account.
:(  Why oh why must we suffer the largest possible fees out there ?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 07, 2013, 06:32:37 PM
I assume the 100Th mine will eventually solo-mine, but the regular dividents at this stage would suggest pooled mining, which pool is in use ?

BTC Guild was the guess as of a couple pages back. User 50274 is now up to first place, with close to 20 TH.

3.73 x 24 as daily mining income from what it looks like right now, so around 12-14 TH online it seems.
Looking at blockchain addressess it may be a user 50274 at btcguild. 15TH/s 2nd  place. It's low user number (but <40 blocks found) so it may be an old Dave account.
:(  Why oh why must we suffer the largest possible fees out there ?
Few pages back, there was an info that mine will do solo when whole 200TH hit online, but now it's pool.
Dividends comes from this address:
https://blockchain.info/pl/address/14cZMQk89mRYQkDEj8Rn25AnGoBi5H6uer
and this is btcguild hot wallet.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Isokivi on September 07, 2013, 06:44:38 PM
Few pages back, there was an info that mine will do solo when whole 200TH hit online, but now it's pool.
Dividends comes from this address:
https://blockchain.info/pl/address/14cZMQk89mRYQkDEj8Rn25AnGoBi5H6uer
and this is btcguild hot wallet.
Still the question remains why are we paying 3% instead of 1%  (-namecoin gains) in fees ?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on September 07, 2013, 10:09:47 PM
Website now says.
Quote
We have a hardware error. No data is lost. Sorry for the inconvenience. We will be up soon.

Well this thread does remain fun to read.

it seems the hashrate is going up and up, good to see it.

The hashrate is exactly zero. Precisely so.

Few pages back, there was an info that mine will do solo when whole 200TH hit online, but now it's pool.
Dividends comes from this address:
https://blockchain.info/pl/address/14cZMQk89mRYQkDEj8Rn25AnGoBi5H6uer
and this is btcguild hot wallet.

Two weeks!! Oh wait, what was the question again?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: dben428 on September 07, 2013, 10:30:32 PM
it seems the hashrate is going up and up, good to see it.

The hashrate is exactly zero. Precisely so.

If you suggest there is no hashrate, are you implying that they are paying dividends out of pocket?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on September 08, 2013, 05:12:00 AM
cause 200th is PMB, that means it will died anyway,so the shares price will not change a lot ,no one will buy the PMB, it seems so many share holders want to out ,because they have  too many shares want to sell,but so little people want to buy .

Was that even English?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on September 08, 2013, 05:15:56 AM
it seems the hashrate is going up and up, good to see it.

The hashrate is exactly zero. Precisely so.

If you suggest there is no hashrate, are you implying that they are paying dividends out of pocket?

It's "MPOE", three time winner of most failed trading website and current holder of "Mr. sand in his vagina 2013". Lets just say that there is a reason he can be found on the ignore list of most users.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on September 08, 2013, 06:01:57 AM
cause 200th is PMB, that means it will died anyway,so the shares price will not change a lot ,no one will buy the PMB, it seems so many share holders want to out ,because they have  too many shares want to sell,but so little people want to buy .

Was that even English?
Go back home https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263445.0


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on September 08, 2013, 10:24:40 AM
it seems the hashrate is going up and up, good to see it.

The hashrate is exactly zero. Precisely so.

If you suggest there is no hashrate, are you implying that they are paying dividends out of pocket?

I'm not implying it, I'm saying it. Re-read this thread, these are pretty much well known scammers by this point.

Lets just say that there is a reason she can be found on the ignore list of most scammers.

FTFY, and yes there is a reason. That reason is that said scammers are too fucking stupid to review the history, and thus learn by reading that the pile of dead scammers under my feet, gutted and beheaded in a bloody mess is much larger than the pile of scammers currently running around.

They prefer learning by doing, and fuck me if I mind.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gebir on September 08, 2013, 11:35:50 AM
         \|||/       
         (o o)       
,----ooO--(_)-------.
| Please            |
|   don't feed the  |
|     TROLL's !     |
'--------------Ooo--'
        |__|__|     
         || ||       
        ooO Ooo     


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: radiumsoup on September 08, 2013, 04:45:24 PM
         \|||/       
         (o o)       
,----ooO--(_)-------.
| Please            |
|   don't feed the  |
|     TROLL's !     |
'--------------Ooo--'
        |__|__|     
         || ||       
        ooO Ooo     

...the troll's what?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Pale Phoenix on September 08, 2013, 06:11:49 PM
...the troll's what?

I initially read that as "... the troll's twat?" which I think I like better. LOL

With regard to MPOE-FUD, as others have mentioned, do not engage rogue PR bots. This particular bot is the first experimental prototype built by Mircea Popescu Fembots Unincorporated (ticker: MPFU, soon to be listed on MPex), and as such, lacks a serviceable logic board.

In the early pages of this thread she flung accusations of incompetence at Bitfury as well, and we all know how he's delivered. The fact that Bitfury worked with OP (tytus) on the chips for this venture, and that these chips now account for a huge percentage of the network, demonstrates just how difficult it is for old bots to process new information.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: TheSwede75 on September 08, 2013, 11:05:34 PM
it seems the hashrate is going up and up, good to see it.

The hashrate is exactly zero. Precisely so.

If you suggest there is no hashrate, are you implying that they are paying dividends out of pocket?

I'm not implying it, I'm saying it. Re-read this thread, these are pretty much well known scammers by this point.

Lets just say that there is a reason she can be found on the ignore list of most scammers.

FTFY, and yes there is a reason. That reason is that said scammers are too fucking stupid to review the history, and thus learn by reading that the pile of dead scammers under my feet, gutted and beheaded in a bloody mess is much larger than the pile of scammers currently running around.

They prefer learning by doing, and fuck me if I mind.

Seems to me that the sand in your vagina might really be getting to you. Is there even a single project you have yet to call scam on? Personally I really only know of one perpetual scam here running as of now and that would be your own mock-exchange that trades only shares in your own exchange. Talk about ponzi scheme.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: radiumsoup on September 08, 2013, 11:30:48 PM
...the troll's what?
I initially read that as "... the troll's twat?" which I think I like better. LOL
I was just politely poking at the apostrophe ;) I knew what you meant, and didn't want to come across as an asshole, but when I posted that, I was pretty much up to my hat in reading misplaced apostrophes and predictions of people "loosing" their money that I was compelled by my frustrations to vent a little before popping a cork. I love the description of he-who-pretends-to-be-a-she-and-who-must-not-be-named-because-then-I-might-accidentally-be-tricked-into-reading-his-I-mean-her-self-fellating-I-mean-cunnilinguing-drivel-in-a-quoted-context. Made me smile.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Transisto on September 09, 2013, 02:27:25 AM
I'm not of the type to be reading between the lines and speculating on success of the project though weird transactions at an address.

Can't you provide any update past that "Failed production and change of investment parameters" from 1 month ago ?

Also how does one explain that the OP, Tytus, hasn't posted on anything since 26 June 2013 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2589595#msg2589595
With a last sentence being "I will write more about the chip sample program in the next week."

In the meanwhile the exchange went down for close to a week.

Q1 : Is it mining or not ?

Q2 : If not at full capacity, WHEN ?

Q3 : What the fuck ?

Sorry for my ignorance.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on September 09, 2013, 07:43:37 AM
Transisto, did you ever read the 100TH-mine business plan?  (http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19 (http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19))
From page 5:
Quote
The 100TH-mine project is managed by Dave Carlson, Maciej Kaźmierczyk and Leszek Rychlewski.
Leszek is known here as "tytus", Dave as "buzzdave".
Why you ask tytus to post, while you ignore buzzdave posts?
Especially when it is buzzdave who is building 100TH right now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Transisto on September 09, 2013, 07:49:54 AM
Transisto, did you ever read the 100TH-mine business plan?  (http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19)
From page 5:
Quote
The 100TH-mine project is managed by Dave Carlson, Maciej Kaźmierczyk and Leszek Rychlewski.
Leszek is known here as "tytus", Dave as "buzzdave".
Why you ask tytus to post, while you ignore buzzdave posts?
Especially when it is buzzdave who is building 100TH right now.

My apologies, thanks for the information.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 09, 2013, 10:44:27 AM
I assume the 100Th mine will eventually solo-mine, but the regular dividents at this stage would suggest pooled mining, which pool is in use ?

BTC Guild was the guess as of a couple pages back. User 50274 is now up to first place, with close to 20 TH.

3.73 x 24 as daily mining income from what it looks like right now, so around 12-14 TH online it seems.
Looking at blockchain addressess it may be a user 50274 at btcguild. 15TH/s 2nd  place. It's low user number (but <40 blocks found) so it may be an old Dave account.
:(  Why oh why must we suffer the largest possible fees out there ?
Few pages back, there was an info that mine will do solo when whole 200TH hit online, but now it's pool.
Dividends comes from this address:
https://blockchain.info/pl/address/14cZMQk89mRYQkDEj8Rn25AnGoBi5H6uer
and this is btcguild hot wallet.

We'll go solo this week - the pool mining is just a temporary measure while the mine is too small to deliver reliable dividends to the shareholders.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 09, 2013, 10:50:20 AM
August shipping is almost complete.  Due to a shortage of M-boards, we won't be shipping starter kits this week.  As a stop gap for those customers, I'm pointing the equivalent hashrate to a dedicated pool account, which we will pay out to them when we ship.

This means we will keep everything running (currently 20TH), and add about 40TH this week.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MRKLYE on September 09, 2013, 10:54:36 AM
August shipping is almost complete.  Due to a shortage of M-boards, we won't be shipping starter kits this week.  As a stop gap for those customers, I'm pointing the equivalent hashrate to a dedicated pool account, which we will pay out to them when we ship.

This means we will keep everything running (currently 20TH), and add about 40TH this week.

Excited to hear this!

So we will be 60TH by next monday you figure?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 09, 2013, 01:21:02 PM
what's the value of the 100TH share? Can it bump to 0.4 btc/share again? I feel really frustrated now?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 09, 2013, 01:26:35 PM
Shoud I dump all of them to at the current price to reduce the loss?


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 09, 2013, 01:43:32 PM
Can it bump to 0.4 btc/share again?
Who knows? When full 200TH hit online then this mine will be delivering highest dividends (for some amount of time) among competition. So if worse AsicMiner can hit >2BTC/share (I know it's not directly comparable) then 0.4 is possible. I think even 1.0 mark is possible.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: tinyfox266 on September 09, 2013, 01:48:54 PM
Can it bump to 0.4 btc/share again?
Who knows? When full 200TH hit online then this mine will be delivering highest dividends (for some amount of time) among competition. So if worse AsicMiner can hit >2BTC/share (I know it's not directly comparable) then 0.4 is possible. I think even 1.0 mark is possible.
Hope your prediction becomes true. Thank you for your consolation.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ShawnP on September 09, 2013, 01:59:27 PM
Can it bump to 0.4 btc/share again?
Who knows? When full 200TH hit online then this mine will be delivering highest dividends (for some amount of time) among competition. So if worse AsicMiner can hit >2BTC/share (I know it's not directly comparable) then 0.4 is possible. I think even 1.0 mark is possible.
I dont know if you are purposly deceiving him or just cluless.
This is mining bond which cannot be compared to AsicMiner.
Each share will give 400MH/s. Lets say you buy them at 0.2 BTC per share or 2GH/s per BTC when 200Th will be online.
Even ASICMINER Block Erupter Blade are cheaper than this which everyone with some clue knows they will never return what you pay for them.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 09, 2013, 02:13:11 PM
Can it bump to 0.4 btc/share again?
Who knows? When full 200TH hit online then this mine will be delivering highest dividends (for some amount of time) among competition. So if worse AsicMiner can hit >2BTC/share (I know it's not directly comparable) then 0.4 is possible. I think even 1.0 mark is possible.
I dont know if you are purposly deceiving him or just cluless.
This is mining bond which cannot be compared to AsicMiner.
Each share will give 400MH/s. Lets say you buy them at 0.2 BTC per share or 2GH/s per BTC when 200Th will be online.
Even ASICMINER Block Erupter Blade are cheaper than this which everyone with some clue knows they will never return what you pay for them.
I wrote that this cannot be directly comparable. Buying hardware and buying bonds it's another story and also not comparable. So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine. For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.

EDIT: To be clear, I have both assets.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: ShawnP on September 09, 2013, 02:39:35 PM
So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Dexter770221 on September 09, 2013, 02:46:21 PM
So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.

AM is increasing now. But it stop at 1PH. I know how PMB works. Thats why I'm continusly wroting "in some period of time".
AM example is good to see that price of the share has nothing to do with math. TAT.VIRTUALMINE gives more dividends that AM (same BTC invested) and it's cheap.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: Pale Phoenix on September 09, 2013, 04:48:24 PM
AM is increasing now. But it stop at 1PH. I know how PMB works. Thats why I'm continusly wroting "in some period of time".
AM example is good to see that price of the share has nothing to do with math. TAT.VIRTUALMINE gives more dividends that AM (same BTC invested) and it's cheap.

It just doesn't make any sense to compare a mining bond with guaranteed, but diminishing returns, to a company like AM.

Sure, AM's dividends might be lower for a few weeks, but they are holding back funds to invest in new technologies that should increase shareholder value over the longer term. So... it does have to do with math, it's just not a back of the napkin calculation you can do for a direct comparison to a bond.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gyverlb on September 09, 2013, 06:13:38 PM
AM is increasing now. But it stop at 1PH. I know how PMB works. Thats why I'm continusly wroting "in some period of time".
AM example is good to see that price of the share has nothing to do with math. TAT.VIRTUALMINE gives more dividends that AM (same BTC invested) and it's cheap.

It just doesn't make any sense to compare a mining bond with guaranteed, but diminishing returns, to a company like AM.

Sure, AM's dividends might be lower for a few weeks, but they are holding back funds to invest in new technologies that should increase shareholder value over the longer term. So... it does have to do with math, it's just not a back of the napkin calculation you can do for a direct comparison to a bond.

Investing in ASIC, delivered to your door or hosted by someone else is mostly speculative right now: there are chances that this will be a large bubble burst in the end. As it's difficult to account for every ASIC sold it's near impossible to make a smart move based on projections (avoiding playing might be advisable at this point).

It's even more difficult than math: models with a fixed percentage increase of hashrate every 2016 blocks are mostly useless. They don't factor market saturation, risks of low hardware MTBF / government confiscations, risk of new player with huge pockets and speculative behavior (investing in huge amounts of private 28nm chips). Risk assesment is highly tricky in this environment.
The hashrate could continue on an exponential curve, hit a ceiling or even decrease if the largest hardware providers are hit by component failures (unlikely to the point of being nearly impossible though as there are enough vendors to reduce this risk).

Everything is possible, if most of the alternative sources of ASICs that have yet to prove themselves fall on their face (like bASIC did), existing customers/investors in mines could still get a nice ROI. But with huge delivery delays for many sources, large amount of hardware could be delivered even after the point where mining with ASIC is barely profitable, eliminating any possibility of positive ROI for most.

So take your best guess and sell/buy/keep your BTC for better days...

I've reduced my position on the 200TH mine (at 0.4 and 0.5 BTC I believed it was too risky to keep all of my shares) but I could afford it: I was an early adopter and have already reached break-even.
People who came on board at 0.2 or 0.3 don't have this luxury, they are either:
- all-in hoping for a slowdown in the current curve that would earn them quite a bit,
- believe the exponential increase is here to stay for at least 6+ months and prefer to limit their loss by selling now.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gaba on September 09, 2013, 08:39:50 PM
August shipping is almost complete.  Due to a shortage of M-boards, we won't be shipping starter kits this week.  As a stop gap for those customers, I'm pointing the equivalent hashrate to a dedicated pool account, which we will pay out to them when we ship.

This means we will keep everything running (currently 20TH), and add about 40TH this week.

Is good to now that 100TH shareholders are on the last place. Thanks.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: RHA on September 09, 2013, 10:05:36 PM
Not quite the last place. No one but August customers were allowed before 100TH.
The shareholders of 100TH are rewarded for the delays with an additional 100 TH/s gear towards a total of 200 TH/s.
It's a brilliant solution. It seems Bitfury himself will have less chips for his private mine, but a good reputation is more important for him.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MPOE-PR on September 09, 2013, 11:32:08 PM
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.

Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.

Known since before 2012 as "the problem with PMBs (http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/)."

the mine is too small to deliver reliable dividends to the shareholders

Pretty epic shit.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: yuchuanzhen on September 10, 2013, 01:44:11 AM
@Dave,can you contact tytus to fix this?

What's wrong with the Volume? https://picostocks.com/stocks

Quote
Code    Bid                     Ask            1dVol         1dChange    1dLow            1dHigh         30dChange 30dLow            30dHigh        
100th   0.26000020    0.28103000    0.00000000    0.0%    0.00000000    0.00000000    -25.6%    0.20000000    0.40400000    
pico      0.04500000    0.05000000    0.00000000    0.0%    0.00000000    0.00000000    -0.0%    0.04530000    0.05080000    
proph   0.03000000    0.04140000    0.00000000    0.0%    0.00000000    0.00000000    -0.7%    0.03000000    0.04140000    

And here: https://picostocks.com/profits/ Profits and Dividends paid by PicoStocks to shareholders on PicoStocks
Quote
Month    Dividend fee    Trading fee    Capital fee    Floating fee    Total profit    Profit per share    Dividend paid    Updated
2013-09    0.37795579    0.03667700    0.00000000    0.00000000    0.41463279    0.00000041            0.00000000    2013-09-02 01:00:01
Last update is 2013-09-02 01:00:01.
It used to update everyday/everyhours,or everyminutes.
And now,not any more.

There must be something wrong.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: redmetal on September 10, 2013, 02:17:20 AM
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.

Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.

Known since before 2012 as "the problem with PMBs (http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-with-pmbs-ie-perpetual-mining-bonds/)."

I still don't see why people are buying any form of PMB! or even when buying hosted hardware is cheaper.


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gaba on September 10, 2013, 05:49:30 AM
Not quite the last place. No one but August customers were allowed before 100TH.
The shareholders of 100TH are rewarded for the delays with an additional 100 TH/s gear towards a total of 200 TH/s.
It's a brilliant solution. It seems Bitfury himself will have less chips for his private mine, but a good reputation is more important for him.

What was before August custumers or 100TH shareholders. Another scam. So after 'failed IPO* of the 72TH-min' we have failed 100TH-min, failed 200TH-min... Scammers!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 06:22:20 AM
We managed to put up 10TH in un-optimized rigs today.  We fought networking gremlins early in the day, but still put together almost 50 rigs.  Tomorrow we'll swap out bad cards and should see another 5TH (reaching 35TH total for the mine).  More team members arrive tomorrow, so I hope to hit that 60TH mark.

Cheers,
Dave


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MRKLYE on September 10, 2013, 06:26:20 AM
We managed to put up 10TH in un-optimized rigs today.  We fought networking gremlins early in the day, but still put together almost 50 rigs.  Tomorrow we'll swap out bad cards and should see another 5TH (reaching 35TH total for the mine).  More team members arrive tomorrow, so I hope to hit that 60TH mark.

Cheers,
Dave

I still have faith in your project. I am invested albeit all I can afford at the moment. Really hoping you guys pull through with this 100TH project!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gaba on September 10, 2013, 07:25:32 AM
So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.


It's even much worse than that. Right now 100TH is actually 20-30TH-mine. We can expect 200TH for few weeks when difficulty rich 150.000.000. http://bitcoindifficulty.com/


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: MRKLYE on September 10, 2013, 08:04:13 AM
So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.


It's even much worse than that. Right now 100TH is actually 20-30TH-mine. We can expect 200TH for few weeks when difficulty rich 150.000.000. http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

A bunch of FUD me thinks.. Once these guys get running full on I think the share price is going to go up up up!


Title: Re: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]
Post by: gaba on September 10, 2013, 08:34:29 AM
Quote
A bunch of FUD me thin