Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Speculation => Topic started by: ARapalo on February 11, 2013, 08:55:05 PM



Title: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ARapalo on February 11, 2013, 08:55:05 PM
I've been out of bitcoin for a while, but I did have 2 cards constantly mining since last year. I just checked up btc value, and it shot up to around $24. Last time I was involved, it was at a measly $7. Any reason obvious reason for such a huge increase?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: bullioner on February 11, 2013, 09:01:45 PM
Two main reasons: supply, and demand.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Kupsi on February 11, 2013, 09:02:26 PM
This is good reading:

http://www.runtogold.com/2012/12/during-2012-fiat-currencies-and-gold-collapse-against-bitcoin/


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: evolve on February 11, 2013, 09:05:08 PM
Greed.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: smoothie on February 11, 2013, 09:09:52 PM
@OP People  bought BITCOIN....THE END lol


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: steamboat on February 11, 2013, 09:09:56 PM
This is good reading:

http://www.runtogold.com/2012/12/during-2012-fiat-currencies-and-gold-collapse-against-bitcoin/

+1

Just stumbled upon that today myself.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: sublime5447 on February 11, 2013, 09:11:17 PM
Greed.

+1


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ElectricMucus on February 11, 2013, 09:13:35 PM

and this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/OCP_Musical_Chairs.jpg/800px-OCP_Musical_Chairs.jpg


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: sublime5447 on February 11, 2013, 09:21:27 PM
God i hate that game!


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ARapalo on February 11, 2013, 09:49:40 PM
Then why wasn't "greed" a reason for this last year, or why demand all of a sudden jumped up? I just got back into it, so don't know if a few large companies or individuals started to buy up a shit ton of BTC to inflate the price.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: evolve on February 11, 2013, 10:07:30 PM
My guess would be fear. Last year, people were still scared from the $32 crash.  As to why this fear went away, who knows...memories are short, and greed is strong, I guess. 

Or, perhaps, a new influx of members that weren't around for the last crash (or all the hacks and scams) have more confidence than the older members and are creating a new bubble.

Or wizards.

Really, there is likely no one reason that this is happening and anyones guess is as good as the next one.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Chalkbot on February 11, 2013, 10:18:18 PM
My guess would be fear. Last year, people were still scared from the $32 crash.  As to why this fear went away, who knows...memories are short, and greed is strong, I guess. 

Or, perhaps, a new influx of members that weren't around for the last crash (or all the hacks and scams) have more confidence than the older members and are creating a new bubble.

Or wizards.

Really, there is likely no one reason that this is happening and anyones guess is as good as the next one.

It can still be fear I think, just fear of not owning BTC when the price goes up.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Melbustus on February 11, 2013, 10:57:17 PM
My guess would be fear. Last year, people were still scared from the $32 crash.  As to why this fear went away, who knows...memories are short, and greed is strong, I guess. 

Or, perhaps, a new influx of members that weren't around for the last crash (or all the hacks and scams) have more confidence than the older members and are creating a new bubble.

Or wizards.

Really, there is likely no one reason that this is happening and anyones guess is as good as the next one.


I know your position about the recent price rise and that's fine, but to imply that the bitcoin ecosystem is similar to how it was during the 2011 spike is absurd. Doesn't bitpay alone have 2000 merchants signed up? We've gone through a nasty process of developing more professionalism and smarter best practices through that series of hacks and scams. To be sure, that stuff will always happen from time to time, but I'm hopeful that the relentless rash of it which we saw in mid 2011 through the pirate fiasco last summer is over.

Plus higher profile press coverage (obv, Wordpress, Bloomberg, Forbes, NPR), with more reasoned, accurate, less-negative tone/content too. Higher hash-rate, more transaction volume, longer history without *any* fundamental protocol breach (in my experience, this is actually a big one for older guys who tend to have a "wait and see" approach to new stuff).... Just a healthier ecosystem all around. Does that justify $24/btc right now? I don't know. Personally, I'm long, but I can certainly see the case for waiting for a correction if one is good at market timing. That's a different matter, though.



Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: kingcrimson on February 11, 2013, 11:24:30 PM
evolve only cares about being right, he will never modify his position even if bitcoin continues its track of success. there will be people like this every step up. same exact thing happened as gold went from $200 to $2,000


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: evolve on February 11, 2013, 11:25:07 PM
I would agree that there have been some changes in the bitcoin ecosystem in the last couple of years, but I think the price is being driven up by speculation, not usability.

From a practical standpoint, if we are to consider btc as a currency, its relative value (as pegged to another currency, such as usd or eur) should be meaningless. In other words, when I spend a dollar, I don't worry about its value relative to the yen, or stress if it lost 8 pips to the euro.  

But that's not what we see with bitcoin. Every other thread has a prediction about btc being worth $100,000 in a few years.  That says to me that bitcoin is being used primarily as a speculative vehicle, and that speculation (greed) is what drives the price.

Just my opinion though....





Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: evolve on February 11, 2013, 11:27:24 PM
evolve only cares about being right, he will never modify his position even if bitcoin continues its track of success. there will be people like this every step up. same exact thing happened as gold went from $200 to $2,000

Don't tell anyone, but precious metals are overvalued right now too. ;)




Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: sgbett on February 11, 2013, 11:57:15 PM
Well thats because you are talking about relative value of that gold to USD or euro or such like. ;)


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: evolve on February 12, 2013, 12:06:27 AM
Gold is a commodity, why wouldn't I peg its value to a currency?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 12:15:17 AM
the only logical answer that was said here was supply and demand,

I dont understand how greed would come into play here, and like most who have followed bitcoin the situation we are in now is 100000000000x different than the crash we experienced 1 year ago, the run up and down happened in such a short period of time and  back then all it took was one big sell/buy to cause the market to panic in either direction because of how few were involved in bitcoin

What does greed have to do with this at all? or the reference with musical chairs?

bitcoin aside of getting press from some decent sources mainly because of how well it is performing to other financial assets, securities, you name it bitcoin is beating it. but where does greed fall into the mix? its not like MTGox,someone who has a insane amount of coins or DPR of SR are going around on every forum advocating to the world how amazing bitcoin is, the world is just slowly realizing it one by one as people see the true benefit to bitcoin

Lol @ your comments man seriously, Gold and Silver being over priced? it just makes sense when something that is limited in supply starts being bought up, not to mention that a majority of the stuff is stashed away in banks or reserves so what there is available to be bought is limited, as well as the limited amount of new gold/silver being introduced, With a setup like this how can the price not go up?

Bitcoin is essentially the same as gold, it is mined, big stashes of it are stored away by big players, and now people are beginning to notice it, its only a matter of time til bitcoin destroys its last high of 32 and it will hopefully get there in a slow and steady fashion like it has been doing the past year,

You say that anyones guess is good but that isnt true when someone also says one of the options is wizards,

Bitcoin is going up. Why ? Because fundamentally it has to just like gold and silver did,


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 12:26:58 AM
People are taking a look at Bitcoin now, a year or so later, and it is going strong.
The code is good. Community is growing.... Their trust factor increases.
The decision to park some wealth in bitcoins is made.

This is happening at a growing rate. Consequently the price per coin is going up.

Bitcoin, like gold, is a value store. ... easy transactions are just a bonus.





Now this is something I would +1

Every passing day the strongest hands involved in bitcoin are getting stronger, veteran small ballers are getting rich, Anyone involved in bitcoin the past year is getting rich, in no way will bitcoin be valueless til EVERYONE meaning all 100% of those involved in bitcoin says so, so even if 2 are involved it is still valuable to those 2,

See you all at 1000 ill be on my island,


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Monster Tent on February 12, 2013, 12:33:55 AM
Bitcoin = Tulip Mania


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: notig on February 12, 2013, 12:59:20 AM
Are people finally beginning to realize how awesome bitcoin is ? :(   Less chance for me to buy more


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: twolifeinexile on February 12, 2013, 12:59:29 AM
People are taking a look at Bitcoin now, a year or so later, and it is going strong.
The code is good. Community is growing.... Their trust factor increases.
The decision to park some wealth in bitcoins is made.

This is happening at a growing rate. Consequently the price per coin is going up.

Bitcoin, like gold, is a value store. ... easy transactions are just a bonus.

Easy transaction is BIG factor, as well as it is not easy to confiscate,


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: evolve on February 12, 2013, 01:40:52 AM
From a practical standpoint, if we are to consider btc as a currency, its relative value (as pegged to another currency, such as usd or eur) should be meaningless. In other words, when I spend a dollar, I don't worry about its value relative to the yen, or stress if it lost 8 pips to the euro. 

Don't tell anyone, but precious metals are overvalued right now too. ;)

Show me a superior store of value. Show me a superior currency. If you can, I would seriously consider trading some of my Bitcoins for whatever it may be.


I don't think you really want my answer, but...

If I am looking to store or grow wealth, I'm going to diversify to reduce risk; I'm certainly not going to throw everything into precious metals and call it a day. Do metals have a place in an investors portfolio? Certainly, (as do a number of investment vehicles) but it isn't the be-all-end-all....just ask anyone who bought silver in Jan 1980....

http://www.safety-security-crazy.com/image-files/silver-chart-30year.jpg



I dont know how a currency can be "superior", but if you dropped me in a random country, I can get a lot further with a hand full of USD than I can with a wallet full of BTC.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: oakpacific on February 12, 2013, 01:59:45 AM
Greed.

This is like saying nothing.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: sublime5447 on February 12, 2013, 02:01:32 AM
BTC is not a store of value!!! I hate seeing this. BTC has been around 3 years! and during that span lost 90% of its value. It is not real!  Dont you get that?
1's and 0's are not wealth there is no comparison between BTC and gold or silver, copper, lumber, BTC has 0 value and is not a commodity. BTC is a currency not a retirement plan.



Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on February 12, 2013, 02:04:47 AM
BTC has been around 3 years! and during that span lost 90% of its value.

wut?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: nobbynobbynoob on February 12, 2013, 02:05:09 AM
It's a damn fine currency though because in the long run it's inflation-proof. In this regard it's kind of like digital gold.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: sublime5447 on February 12, 2013, 02:09:23 AM
It's a damn fine currency though because in the long run it's inflation-proof. In this regard it's kind of like digital gold.

I agree 100% all it needs is a competitor to give it price stability.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on February 12, 2013, 02:11:09 AM
BTC is not a store of value!!!

I think BTC is an interesting case because if it works as intended and no superior alternatives arise, I think it is one of the best stores of values you'll ever get.
On the other hand, it still has quite some "track record proving" to do to exit the "experimental phase".


It is not real!  Dont you get that?

Please give me your definition of reality.  Something big enough for your eyes to see without equipment, something big enough for your skin sensors to feel?
Or maybe it's all in the atoms you say, so a couple of tubes of paint and a blank canvas are just as valueful as a picasso painting?

1's and 0's are not wealth

Tell that to Bill Gates.

BTC has 0 value
If you believe that, why are you still here?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on February 12, 2013, 02:12:50 AM
It's a damn fine currency though because in the long run it's inflation-proof. In this regard it's kind of like digital gold.

I agree 100% all it needs is a competitor to give it price stability.

What, you just bought litecoins and now you start peptalking it?
Give me 1 rational explanation why "a competitor" would give price stability.
I am feeling mightily tempted to push the troll-ignore button...


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 02:14:52 AM
 Store of value - To act as a store of value, these forms must be able to be saved and retrieved at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved.

this is dictionary definition of store of value,

No where does it say it has to be physical or non physical

Hm I can store my bitcoins in my wallet, and retrieve them at a later time, damn these things cant be that useful (Sarcasm) the current price is only 24.41 ? Weird


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: solex on February 12, 2013, 02:43:13 AM
Are people finally beginning to realize how awesome bitcoin is ? :(   Less chance for me to buy more

+1000

Fill in the blank...

Email                   is to    Snail mail
World Wide Web   is to    Bricks and Mortar shops
Bitcoin                 is to    ..............


I can't understand anyone who follows this forum and does not have at least 10% of their spare/investment money in a bitcoin holding.
If it blows up, unfortunate, sad. If it succeeds it will kill most of the world's fiat. Hello long and happy retirement.




Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Melbustus on February 12, 2013, 03:22:10 AM
BTC is not a store of value!!! I hate seeing this. BTC has been around 3 years! and during that span lost 90% of its value. It is not real!  Dont you get that?
1's and 0's are not wealth there is no comparison between BTC and gold or silver, copper, lumber, BTC has 0 value and is not a commodity. BTC is a currency not a retirement plan.


Ok, now those few sentences are just wrong. I get it - you're locked in your thinking to some arcane/misleading notion of "intrinsic value". There are lots of people like that. You've got an intellectual wall you need to get over. You'll get there in time if you think about it enough.

As I've said a number of times on this forum recently, Bitcoin and PMs (not copper or lumber, just the metals whose exchange value is not primarily driven by industrial demand) are very similar, with Bitcoin taking their market-dominant monetary properties to an intellectual extreme. Bitcoin also happens to be fantastic for actual transactions in the modern era. So, double booya.



Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Melbustus on February 12, 2013, 03:47:33 AM
Bitcoin and PMs are very similar, with Bitcoin taking their market-dominant monetary properties to an intellectual extreme. Bitcoin also happens to be fantastic for actual transactions in the modern era.

This is a fantastic way to describe Bitcoin. I hope you don't mind if I borrow it from time to time?

Please do!


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: notme on February 12, 2013, 03:50:25 AM
the only logical answer that was said here was supply and demand,

I dont understand how greed would come into play here, and like most who have followed bitcoin the situation we are in now is 100000000000x different than the crash we experienced 1 year ago, the run up and down happened in such a short period of time and  back then all it took was one big sell/buy to cause the market to panic in either direction because of how few were involved in bitcoin

What does greed have to do with this at all? or the reference with musical chairs?

bitcoin aside of getting press from some decent sources mainly because of how well it is performing to other financial assets, securities, you name it bitcoin is beating it. but where does greed fall into the mix? its not like MTGox,someone who has a insane amount of coins or DPR of SR are going around on every forum advocating to the world how amazing bitcoin is, the world is just slowly realizing it one by one as people see the true benefit to bitcoin

Lol @ your comments man seriously, Gold and Silver being over priced? it just makes sense when something that is limited in supply starts being bought up, not to mention that a majority of the stuff is stashed away in banks or reserves so what there is available to be bought is limited, as well as the limited amount of new gold/silver being introduced, With a setup like this how can the price not go up?

Bitcoin is essentially the same as gold, it is mined, big stashes of it are stored away by big players, and now people are beginning to notice it, its only a matter of time til bitcoin destroys its last high of 32 and it will hopefully get there in a slow and steady fashion like it has been doing the past year,

You say that anyones guess is good but that isnt true when someone also says one of the options is wizards,

Bitcoin is going up. Why ? Because fundamentally it has to just like gold and silver did,

The musical chairs reference is a perfect example of demand exceeding supply.

Also when you start making statements like "how can the price not go up" you have found the sucker.  He's the one looking back at you from the mirror.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 04:10:24 AM
oh really im the sucker? please let me know if my "how can we not go up" statement has been wrong this past year,

Oh wait no it hasnt. Like you super bears im on the other side of the spectrum and would say im a super bull, doesnt mean im not going to change my position if the market says so, right now it is Retarded to be a bear so why would i be fighting for the losing side,

Til the market says otherwise Im speaking on behalf of the drection its moving, til it happens Im a bull


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: sublime5447 on February 12, 2013, 04:14:29 AM
if the demand was exceeding supply we would be seeing a lower bitcoin price

Really?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: TraderTimm on February 12, 2013, 04:20:59 AM
A simple analogy:

Raw Ore --> Mine Processing --> Gold Ingots :: Raw Bits --> Miner Hashing --> Bitcoin Blocks

Sure, it remains to be seen how bitcoin performs as things scale, but there are inherent advantages when it comes to digital versus physical. For one, I don't have to rent out a big vault or storage box, and I don't have to worry that the government has a record of my purchase at the dealer.

Precious metals have their place, but I think Bitcoin will prove itself worthy as well in the world of bits and bytes.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on February 12, 2013, 04:55:37 AM
BTC has been around 3 years! and during that span lost 90% of its value.

wut?
Ya it went from 31 to 4 . A store of value has to past the test of time. BTC has not.  

I think we have different definitions for store of value.  You seem to appreciate low volatility.  I appreciate retaining value over long periods of time, such as gold has done over the past couple thousands of years, despite being volatile at times.

EDIT: if you are saying something has to have passed the test of time: what would you say to the persons who first started trading gold back in the day?  That it was not a store of value?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: sublime5447 on February 12, 2013, 05:05:24 AM
Yes for sure I would tell him it was not a store of value. After 40 years or so you could say it is not just a fad. If you asked if I would have said that salt wasnt a store of value when people started to use it as a currency. I would say no.

There is no comparison between BTC and commodities. BTC is just 1's and 0's in the cloud. BTC can go to zero tomorrow, that is not a store of value. 


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on February 12, 2013, 05:07:48 AM
Yes for sure I would tell him it was not a store of value. After 40 years or so you could say it is not just a fad. If you asked if I would have said that salt wasnt a store of value when people started to use it as a currency. I would say no.

There is no comparison between BTC and commodities. BTC is just 1's and 0's in the cloud. BTC can go to zero tomorrow, that is not a store of value. 

Bitcoin is Schrodingers store of value, maybe it is great, maybe it is dead...   :)


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: cilphex on February 12, 2013, 06:01:25 AM
I think there's another component to the recent price rise that I never hear mentioned: it's simply easier now for anyone to buy bitcoins.  Coinbase in particular lets anybody sign up and buy coins immediately with a direct bank transfer.

This rise could, in part, be a result of pent-up demand being released via these new easy-to-use bitcoin purchasing methods.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: arepo on February 12, 2013, 10:26:21 AM


What does greed have to do with this at all? or the reference with musical chairs?

...

Bitcoin is going up. Why ? Because fundamentally it has to just like gold and silver did,

this is true. but greed is a quantifiable thing. take that the bitcoin market behaves in an extremely volatile manner compared to commodities with massive market caps:

the basic hypothesis is that people are irrational and will overestimate rewards vs risk. this will manifest itself in a game of musical chairs where everyone plays along until we reach a really unstable state where everyone rushes to sell sell sell. last one out loses (net loss) because trading is a zero-sum game. this state is "unstable" as the price exhibits extreme volatility, which sometimes can hide the underlying deflation.

while this occurs in all markets, with bitcoin it is exacerbated by the smallness of the market cap. the mechanism for this is related to the interplay between the relative sizes of the trade volume and the market cap. (if mean volume is large in proportion to the market cap, single buys and sells more drastically affect the market).

in other words, this rally could be a 'fluctuation' much larger than the underlying deflationary nature that gold and silver exhibit. the btcusd rate should increase over time, but that does not necessarily mean that this price event is due to that effect.

it could just as easily be musical chairs...

also

Quote
I dont understand how greed would come into play here, and like most who have followed bitcoin the situation we are in now is 100000000000x different than the crash we experienced 1 year ago

>the situation we are in now is 100000000000x different
>100000000000x different


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: lebing on February 12, 2013, 10:34:24 AM

This rise could, in part, be a result of pent-up demand being released via these new easy-to-use bitcoin purchasing methods.

Bingo


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Luno on February 12, 2013, 10:42:04 AM
BTC $25.22, Facebook $28.26

Facebook is going to crash tomorrow!!!


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: piramida on February 12, 2013, 10:45:23 AM
I think there's another component to the recent price rise that I never hear mentioned: it's simply easier now for anyone to buy bitcoins.  Coinbase in particular lets anybody sign up and buy coins immediately with a direct bank transfer.

That is true, but you should not forget that BUY limit on coinbase is 100 btc while SELL limit is 10x more - 1000 BTC, so once this bubble starts normalizing, the same easy method of trading coins would guarantee descent 10 time as fast as the climb up.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: solex on February 12, 2013, 10:53:04 AM

That is true, but you should not forget that BUY limit on coinbase is 100 btc while SELL limit is 10x more - 1000 BTC,


That seems crazy. Is there a reason?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: piramida on February 12, 2013, 11:10:29 AM
possibly because bank transaction is reversible, unlike BTC transaction, so they are trying to minimize risks.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 08:39:00 PM


What does greed have to do with this at all? or the reference with musical chairs?

...

Bitcoin is going up. Why ? Because fundamentally it has to just like gold and silver did,

this is true. but greed is a quantifiable thing. take that the bitcoin market behaves in an extremely volatile manner compared to commodities with massive market caps:

the basic hypothesis is that people are irrational and will overestimate rewards vs risk. this will manifest itself in a game of musical chairs where everyone plays along until we reach a really unstable state where everyone rushes to sell sell sell. last one out loses (net loss) because trading is a zero-sum game. this state is "unstable" as the price exhibits extreme volatility, which sometimes can hide the underlying deflation.

while this occurs in all markets, with bitcoin it is exacerbated by the smallness of the market cap. the mechanism for this is related to the interplay between the relative sizes of the trade volume and the market cap. (if mean volume is large in proportion to the market cap, single buys and sells more drastically affect the market).

in other words, this rally could be a 'fluctuation' much larger than the underlying deflationary nature that gold and silver exhibit. the btcusd rate should increase over time, but that does not necessarily mean that this price event is due to that effect.

it could just as easily be musical chairs...

also

Quote
I dont understand how greed would come into play here, and like most who have followed bitcoin the situation we are in now is 100000000000x different than the crash we experienced 1 year ago

>the situation we are in now is 100000000000x different
>100000000000x different



Alright im pretty sick and tired of this greed shit, You think that bitcoin is being manipulated heavily right now? are you willing to wager, I will put 250 USD bet on the fact that Bitcoin will not go below 24.75 in the next 5 days, even with the RSI as high as it is, I believe right now most news is good and relative stability is what we have been seeing,

You want to talk shit or put money where your mouth is because if you want to wager more im willing to.

Edit:

Looks like a good time as we are seeing some drops but the bet is still live,


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Spaceman_Spiff on February 12, 2013, 09:04:28 PM
Alright im pretty sick and tired of this greed shit, You think that bitcoin is being manipulated heavily right now? are you willing to wager, I will put 250 USD bet on the fact that Bitcoin will not go below 24.75 in the next 5 days, even with the RSI as high as it is, I believe right now most news is good and relative stability is what we have been seeing,

You want to talk shit or put money where your mouth is because if you want to wager more im willing to.

Edit:

Looks like a good time as we are seeing some drops but the bet is still live,

I am allways in for a good bet.  Ok to wager 1 BTC against me?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 09:16:43 PM
pmed


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: piramida on February 12, 2013, 10:26:58 PM
am I late to this bet? since I've seen 24.60 transactions several minutes ago...


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: keewee on February 12, 2013, 10:29:54 PM
am I late to this bet? since I've seen 24.60 transactions several minutes ago...

Got down to 24.50  :)


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 10:37:05 PM
am I late to this bet? since I've seen 24.60 transactions several minutes ago...

Ya man your not to late ill sill take bets and pay out even though it already happened....(Sarcasm)

No this is no longer a live bet since it dropped to 24.50, only person to reply to me didnt want to wager 2 btc,

You care to set a stake and go for the 250 that i stated originally?


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: piramida on February 12, 2013, 11:28:39 PM
no sorry I only participate in bets that I'm certain I'll win, and predicting btc price is not one of those ;)


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 11:33:03 PM
no sorry I only participate in bets that I'm certain I'll win, and predicting btc price is not one of those ;)

Well thats no fun, that kind of eliminates you most/all bets considering most things in life have no certainty,

your guess is as good as mine if you want to throw a bet down i can match and I will pay out,


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: piramida on February 12, 2013, 11:37:12 PM
I can say with certainty that bitcoin price would get down at least to $20 in three months timeframe. Would be willing to bet some expensive lunch money on that. We can use betsofbitco.in to avoid the need for escrow ;)


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: ajk on February 12, 2013, 11:39:40 PM
ill put 250 USD  on that,

im on the over saying that we will be over 20+, can go into finer detail if wanted but i am saying any number of 20+ if your saying under, 20.00/20.01 included,

also would be willing to do a 2:1 type payout to whoever can get closest to the price 3 months from now? this is up to you,


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: DoomDumas on February 13, 2013, 01:17:09 AM
This is good reading:

http://www.runtogold.com/2012/12/during-2012-fiat-currencies-and-gold-collapse-against-bitcoin/

+1

Just stumbled upon that today myself.

Real nice to read !  This summarize all my points, and I agree with most of them.. Many good points/reason why the BTC price will still under-valuated unless it hit 100$, maybe much more in case of a major economic crash, that have a lot of chance to happen !


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: DoomDumas on February 13, 2013, 01:22:09 AM
evolve only cares about being right, he will never modify his position even if bitcoin continues its track of success. there will be people like this every step up. same exact thing happened as gold went from $200 to $2,000

Don't tell anyone, but precious metals are overvalued right now too. ;)


IMO, Gold and silver a well undervaluated.. The gold price should be arround 33 000$ / ounce if it has followed the last 40 years of inflation, the the CPI supposed inflation.. My guess is gold @ more than 5k$ before 2015 !


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: solex on February 13, 2013, 02:07:31 AM

d silver a well undervaluated.. The gold price should be arround 33 000$ / ounce if it has followed the last 40 years of inflation, the the CPI supposed inflation.. My guess is gold @ more than 5k$ before 2015 !

I'm a bitcoin-bull like you, but one must not lose perspective. Anyone who bought gold at the 1980 peak has only just got their money back, in inflation adjusted terms, 32 years later! Maybe gold has languished for the reason that bitcoin has so much potential. Gold is useless for remote payments - which is a massive part of the modern world economy.

http://goldsilverworlds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gold_inflation_adjusted_november_2012.png



Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: Oldsport on February 13, 2013, 03:32:29 AM
I'm not too educated on the topic... but from what I've heard gold isn't exactly rare but controlled. I guess the same applies for Bitcoin in a way with hoarders, but Bitcoin is transparent. We know how many there are and we know there are limits (there are no secret deposits of Bitcoins 10000s of feet into the ocean or in some undiscovered area of land), whereas with gold it's  matter never truly lost or destroyed since it's constant... simply broken down into smaller pieces to be discovered later. Bitcoin, however, if you lose a wallet the coins are gone forever not broken up to be rediscovered. I hope the gist is somewhat gotten, I'm not the best at defining thoughts and I'm tired..

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see the point of really comparing the two in the long run.


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: honolululu on February 13, 2013, 08:19:15 AM
I'm not too educated on the topic... but from what I've heard gold isn't exactly rare but controlled. I guess the same applies for Bitcoin in a way with hoarders, but Bitcoin is transparent. We know how many there are and we know there are limits (there are no secret deposits of Bitcoins 10000s of feet into the ocean or in some undiscovered area of land), whereas with gold it's  matter never truly lost or destroyed since it's constant... simply broken down into smaller pieces to be discovered later. Bitcoin, however, if you lose a wallet the coins are gone forever not broken up to be rediscovered. I hope the gist is somewhat gotten, I'm not the best at defining thoughts and I'm tired..

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see the point of really comparing the two in the long run.

Agreeing with you, but I would say diamonds' price are more supply controlled than gold realisitically.  The supply of Gold is nigh infinite with electric powered particle accelerators.   Even a Dyson sphere can only mine for so many original coins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_synthesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_synthesis)


Title: Re: BTC price shooting up to $24/BTC
Post by: 3phase on February 13, 2013, 08:35:39 AM
The supply of Gold is nigh infinite with electric powered particle accelerators. 

And you would spend how many millions of $ to produce one ounce of gold?

Or do you believe that gold can go above 1M$/ounce and make the process profitable? If that happens, do you understand how much this gold-producing equipment would cost? And who would care about $ anyway in such a case?

Gold's supply is limited and will be for at least the lives of our generation and our children's generation.