Bitcoin Forum

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36210680

I quote "bank customers are not always able to withdraw the amount of US dollars they want because of a shortage of dollar notes in Zimbabwe."

This is one of the countries in Africa with the poorest population and the greatest need for micro transactions. I think this decision will push more people to use alternative methods of payment and also alternative investment currencies to protect their wealth. We have already seen M-pesa making in-roads into Kenia and other African countries as a alternative to their reserve currency.

The political instability in that country will not help in making sound financial decisions and they hate western influences, but they accept the dollar? ^hmmmmm^

I gather Venezuela is even worse.

18.5% of the population has Internet access, yeah, bitcoin would be awesome...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users

Hell, tulips would have been a better choice for that basket case.

Bitcoin is best used on Internet only. Most people need to use paper money instead, because the infrastructure to receive digital form of money only (which can be both traditional Visa/MC or trustless Bitcoin cryptocurrency) is far from ready in Zimbabwe.

So only the tech savvy can store their wealth to Bitcoin there actually.

I was thinking they could print these new notes with bitcoin private keys imbedded in each note to add some intrinsic value to the notes.

You have to understand a few things here.
No so many people in that area can use Internet.
If they can use internet, they don't have enough skills and knowledge how to use Internet for finance, payments, sending or receiving money etc.
Even if they have internet and have some understanding about sending money or Internet, finance etc. what they can do with bitcoin there?
They can't buy or sell anything for bitcoin.
No, right now, I don't think bitcoin is better option for them.

It is brutal for both countries, but it is probably especially bad in Venezuela. There is basically no economy for them to use, they have so few people working they can't really export anything, and the regime in power doesn't plan on backing down anytime soon.

This is part of what socialism gives us, especially when applied in extreme cases. Brazil, Venezuela, Peru, lots of these countries.

Bitcoin would definitely be the better choice for Zimbabwe. But the problem is that it needs internet and internet connection is really rough there. I mean, somebody, an individual or a company, would have to invest/donate to Zimbabwe so they can have access to better internet and that would require heck load of funds and guts.

And this is your answer guys. As much as we all want to popularize bitcoin and let it be solution to economic problem of every nation this simply can't happen anytime soon.
Bitcoin is only good in first world countries - with developed internet network and whole infrastructure present. Africa in most cases won't be a good place for BTC.

The internet access requirement is BS.... I travelled to most of these countries and they are using mobile phones. We have seen people linking Sms's to Bitcoin and sending Bitcoin via emails. If these

people are knowledgeable enough to use Mpesa or whatever it is called, then they would know how to use Bitcoin. There are also enough third party services like Bitpesa to help them figure it out.

The first world countries need to give these people a chance to enter the financial market and to use this technology. We cannot keep this to ourselves.... 3rd world countries will just skip certain

stages in technology.. like they did with the phones... In first world countries... people started out with landlines and progressed to mobile / wifi access... Now 3rd world countries can skip directly to

wifi and landlines are not needed.... same thing with Bitcoin... Most of these people are going to skip the traditional fiat system {Bank accounts} and just jump directly into digital alternatives like

Mpesa & Bitcoin.

I do agree with the information about the internet usage in zimbabwe is not that great like in other parts of modern world and people are not familiar with online transactions as well. even though internet is available but the usage of bitcoins is not that normal and formal forever one and not even  understandable to many.

How can they have bitcoins when their foreign reserve is almost zero?They cant have lots of bitcoins even if they set up lots of mining farm.They need to buy bitcoin but without dollars,they cant even buy it

If these poors are all tech savvy, have computers/iPhones with unlimited internet, than perhaps :)

Yeah Zimbabwe is very technologically up to date. Actually, there are parts of the US that are potentially more derelict and poverty stricken than the roughest towns in Zimbabwe.

Have look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeiGk3I3WIE

The traffic may be an issue, but you get the sense that their economy is quite mature and developed - perhaps more so than the bankrupt state of Detroit if you were to be a little pedantic

Would bitcoin be a good "option" for Zimbabwe? I don't know... The governments of Canada, Australia, United Kingdom, China, Russia, the United States have all 'publicly' denounced the use of bitcoin in one way or another for their own populations. Despite this, members of their economies still use bitcoin quite heavily.

Rest assured there is already a bustling bitcoin market in Zimbabwe, just like there is in potentially every country in the world.

If you'd click onto the Zimbabwean localbitcoins website: https://localbitcoins.com/country/ZW there are hundreds of OTC bitcoin traders there, that have surpassed 150 BTC in trading volume, which is roughly $68,000 USD. More than the average US citizen earns per annum.

So yes, Bitcoin is a good option... which is probably why they are already using it.

Don't fall for the media spin... As it pertains to natural resources, africa is - bar none - the wealthiest continent on the planet.

And how would the broke Zimbabwe government have bought bitcoins to use as a currency?

They could have minted their own Alt coin but that would have had the same problem - rather than hyperinflation the Zimbabwe alt coin would, like most alt coins, have hyperdepreciation.

Definatly better for the average person, for the dictators in power probably not so good.... ;)

Zimbabwe GDP per capita (yearly): $475.26 US. That's less than $1.50/day.
Can't put much of a spin on that :D

And how do you prevent people from spending the bitcoin with the private keys before passing the note on to someone else? Physical expressions of bitcoin (printing the private key on something) have to be kept absolutely private or the funds can be stolen.

I was born in Detroit. It's mismanagement is legendary, but if you take Detroit _as a whole_ and compare it with Zimbabwe, it still beats the latter hands down in economic terms. Perhaps because Mugabe is at least as bad as Coleman Young and the rest of the bunch in Detroit combined.

Hopefully someone in Zimbabwe is using bitcoin, and introducing it to others. But there is no place in the world where bitcoin is more than a drop in the bucket at this time, compared to its potential.

same thread about poor country because inflation,later i read post about venezuela,and now zimbabwe,that two countries have same problem,American Country and African,two different continent. but ithink not simply they can use bitcoin as answer for their problem,too much risk if they use bitcoin,and their goverment already know about this risk.

These numbers are hogwash

Don't believe everything you read. There are doctors that have taken flight and moved their entire family to parts of the middle east, africa, india and so on - because they can earn bundles more money via opening their own private practices in countries with less bureaucracy and red tape than the western states

Most corporations and private individuals in these "thrid world" countries don't even report their income so how these GDP numbers are produced is beyond me

It's not like in the US where the IRS has their foot firmly on the necks of the entire population - the governments of these "developing" nations make more money from managing the distribution (fairly, or unfairly) of their natural resources than they do from taxing their populations

So these GDP figures are merely pieces of fiction because there is no single collation of records showing the income of each individual in Zimbabwe or in any other developing nation


Yep, one of the previous mayors of Detroit, Kwame Kilpatrick, was thrown in jail a few years back due to embezzlement and fraud. Mismanagement is an understatement

Detroit is pretty screwed economically actually. It's one sole claim to financial competence is GM... and even they have been bailed out with taxpayer money many times in the past.

Detroit financially is a joke when compared to Zimbabwe. Yes, Zimbabwe's currency is the equivalent of a premine scam - but this weak currency allows foriegn corporations to benefit by paying the people that they employ in Zimbabwe less money. When you convert this into USD, the savings are gargantuan. The gold, nickel, coal, copper, iron ore, chrome ore, and silver mining conglomerates that do a lot of work over there benefit heavily from this, and pay an intense amount of kickbacks to the Zimbabwean government.

Hence why Mugabe is the ONLY dictator from the 80's that is still in power today. He plays ball... the unites states, britain everyone loves this guy.

Unlike Saddam and Gaddaffi who refused to debase their own currencies.

Watch this video of Mugabe in London in 1976, as the BBC pleasantly describes him a Leader of the most active "group of guerrillas", prior to him seizing power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnGaSbA0aIk Was he funded by the brits? We can speculate on that, he definitely received media promotion from britian - was this part of a larger package of financial support? Who knows.

Zimbabwe is your modern day corporatocracy

But they are only able to be a corporatocracy because they have vital - and valuable - minerals. Detroit has nothing. The united states government doesn't even care about detroit enough to supply them with fresh water

The reason these countries don't use Bitcoin is because (1) Bitcoins are expensive and (2) The governments are broke.

Saying a country with a worthless currency and hyperinflation can "Just use bitcoin" is like claiming a homeless person can buy all the food he wants if he just stops carrying around a backpack full of junk and exchanges it for a backpack full of dollars. The logical fallacy is that you can't exchange junk for dollars just like a broke government can't exchange its worthless scrip for BTC.

Which governments are broke?

Do you have information to substantiate this statement?

Which country is the LARGEST debtor nation in the history of civilisation? The United States, or Zimbabwe?

Let's look at the 'Rankings' of the countries that have the largest 'External' debt. This is Debt owed to foreign creditors: private individuals, nations and corporations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

You'll find That the United States is number one on that list, Zimbabwe is at number 99. BIG difference.

USA owes: 17 Trlllion

Zimbabwe owes: 6.9 Billion

When it comes to broke governments, the US reigns supreme.

The united states government doesn't generate money. The only money it has is the money it taxes and/or scams via government bonds, and steals via quantitative easing

This is why there is hysteria around the coming "crash" of the US Dollar. They are going to have to debase the the living daylights out of the dollar very soon, because they have to pay their debts. The united states government is so financially distraught, that they can't even dig Flint, Michigan out of their water crisis

People in Detroit literally have muddy water coming out of their kitchen and bathroom taps. Now everyone is sending buckets of fresh water there as if it were part of a third world county circa 1970's.

The are fears that the united states, in its entirety, is slowly degenerating into a third world nation

Flint Michigan is just the start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNCUDHVt28

Im not even sure how many people in Zimbabwe have access to a phone or anything that could scan a bitcoin barcode to see what value the paper holds. It would be a nice idea but probably not practical for a place like Zimbabwe .

K. Ignoring lameass mainstream hogwash; trusting only you, random guy from the interweb :)

People in Zimbabwe literally have no water coming out of their bathroom taps.
Because no bathroom taps.
Or bathrooms :(

The problem is always broke down to just a few issues for Countries like this.
They lack internet connection or they lack places to buy/sell bitcoin in a manner that would replace the current set up. Cell phones seem to be the only way to get around both those issues but do not know how you can create a internet network this way.

The problem is poor countries are poor, as in average person living on less than $1.50 US a day. It doesn't matter what you use for money -- poor is poor.

They're quite connected actually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdaZCfD7gT4

Large social media scene.. WhatsApp... etc ...the whole 9

Most people haven't comprehended that most major industries, such as the communications industry, are now simply mobile apps that run over the internet. Smart phone = unrestriced access to the internet and all it's capabilities

The western governments tricked everyone into believing africa was poor. Imagine if you went to a place like Nigeria and built a cement factory in the early 90's. At the rate they are throwing up multi million dollar developments today, you'd be rolling in the dough. The western governments knew this, and you better believe that they have built these types of companies throughout Africa themselves... again, stealing opportunity away from their subjects.

I told you, the US Government doesn't produce any revenue other than what they tax and scam via quantitative easing.

These $2 per month, help for africa charities were actually covert operations so that the US government could begin to pay down their debts

The united states is developing into a full blown third world nation. People in Detroit have muddy water from the sewers spewing into their shower water, and your government is not doing anything to help. Where has all the money gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmrfiPi4H20

Yes but in some parts of Africa they use mobile credits/minutes in exchange as cash,so bitcoin can be used in the same manner. Cell phones are cheaper in these areas and just need to tap into the internet which Zuckerberg is trying to do with balloons I believe,but I do not trust his end game for this.

Poor people still transact but they need to know the system is reliable and bitcoins fluctuations might not help things.

Net worth = assets minus debt not just debt. The US has a net worth of approximately 123.8 trillion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_position_of_the_United_States

The federal reserve banks have a blank check they can draw against the asset base and earnings power of the United States. That's why they were able to print trillions after the Great Recession without igniting inflation - it was a drop in the bucket compared to the $296T or so of total US assets.

Networth of 123.8trn yet when some old lady that has been paying taxes for 60+ years, yet has zero saved for retirement and no pension plan twists the tap in her kitchen, water from the swamp spits out into her drinking glass?

123.8 Trillion, yet the united states government turns a blind eye and allows the millions of people living in Flint Michigan to bathe in infested, infected and inferior water?

Some people in Flint Michigan haven't even bathed in months because that water is so poisonous that it poses the risk of the future development of cancer due the unsafe amounts of lead it's polluted with.

What are these assets? Assets bought with the proceeds of quantitative easing?

You say the fed has a blank check book... erm yah, in the digital currency industry we call that a premine scam. Infact, this blank checkbook you speak of is the reason why the United States has become a financial laughing stock.

Why is The United States that largest debtor nation in the HISTORY of modern civilisation?

This list shows the largest creditor nations in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_creditor_nations_by_net_international_investment_position_per_capita

Mauritius, an african nation - a "thrid world nation" is number 11 on that list. China, Singapore, Luxembourg etc all on the list. Where is the US? They're number one on the DEBTORS list.

China is a major creditor of the US. China also has the largest army in the world. Eventually they're going to demand their money with force. And the united states will debase the dollar... and Flint, Michigan will not be the only town where polluted, muddy water spews from the tap

Next electricity outages will run rampant

Third world... The beginning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw5jH8hlafc

Ridiculous statement. The dollar is the world's reserve currency and has risen about 35% against the basket of world currencies since 2008. US treasury notes are the gold standard for liquidity in the world.

The largest complaint the world has about the US dollar is that there are too few, not too many, of them available in circulation. That is why demand for treasury notes worldwide is so insanely high.

US treasury notes are the gold standard for toilet paper at the residence of Xi Jinping

"The dollar is the world's reserve currency?" Without using common cliches, could you actually explain what that means exactly?

No one is complaining that there's too few dollars available, like you said, the federal reserve can create as much of it as they want... and this is where your problems stem from.

Muammar Gaddafi died becuase he would rather create his own currency, backed by gold to trade oil amongst allies of Libya. He would rather accept death than the promise of a lifetime supply of US fun tokens, or dollars or whatever...

The united states, world wide, is THE ultimate example of financial stupidity. When you travel out to some other country somewhere and have discussion with the locals, there is no longer any respect for america - at least not from a financial standpoint. China has taken that accolade... Singapore... Belgium... Denmark... the list goes on.

Now when the US is mentioned, it's usually because people feel sorry for you guys and want to band together and deliver some financial aid to Flint, Michigan because your very own government is too broke and financially unsavvy to help you guys out

Since the introduction of the Dollar it's value has only ever plummeted. Forget it's value against other currencies, that is a mere dog and pony show - a rigged one at that. All of these fiat currencies are resetting to their original value of zero. It is literally a scam.

The only reason you'd adopt a fiat currency is if your intent is to scam an entire nation of people of out their wealth. You mention 123.8 Trillion worth of assets. These assets were purchased with the proceeds of their quantitative easing scam. Each time they print money into existence, the pre-existing supply loses value... this is why they INSTANTLY convert these fun tokens into "assets" - yet have zero money to filter that flint water

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/a-Purchasing-Power-of-U.S.-Dollar.jpg

It's a scam. The same scam that has been perpetrated again and again since the very first fiat currency was created in 1701, in France

^^"I understood at last the look in his eyes. He was insane." --Wikiquote

You deny the fact that in Flint, Michigan people are using bottles of Evian water to bathe in their back gardens because their tap water is unsafe?

You deny the fact that, for years, the WWF foundation and other organisations collected BILLIONS from the united states public - supposedly for "aid" in africa... (yeah right) yet, the federal government of the united states can't even supply each and every home in michigan with a simple osmosis water filter that is quite inexpensive? Inexpensive at least for a country with $123.8 Trillion in "assets."

This isn't adding up.

When people like Peter Schiff say that America is on the brink of economic devastation, everyone pokes fun.
Until someone in Detroit twists that faucet :)

Everything moves in cycles. France was once the worlds superpower. Egypt... Rome... Britain.... the Mongol empire.... the Moorish empire... the Persian empire...

It's time for things to reset

And this is what I love about bitcoin, that folks in Zimbabwe or Argentina or wherever can spew nonsense earn money in signature campaigns and nearly earn a living doing so.  That's bitcoin's power--some folks rage about NWO and world currency and etc, but this is bitcoin's beauty.  Not even kidding.

Yes bitcoin literally allows the world's unbanked to plug into the global financial system. Cool beans. This is only a small iota of bitcoin's capabilities to create a fracture in the current status quo.

"Bitcoin's beauty" is not just the pocket money small men are able to earn from Yobit signature campaigns... One day, you will rely heavily on a financial product developed by some Ukrainian teenager... One day, owners of solar panel farms will trade energy back and forth, using the blockchain.

The possibilities are endless.

Maybe the US government will try their hand at the crypto market, and turn the dollar into some new "innovative" altcoin. Maybe they'll be able to host an ICO to help diminish their trillions.... and trillions... aaand trillions worth of external debt

The future is set to be interesting indeed

They have water and can afford brand name bottled water, unlike Zimbabwe people. Bonus: tap water considered "unsafe" in the west is ne plus ultra infant-approved hospital-grade in countries like Zimbabwe.

You want freebie osmosis water filters from your government? WTF have you done for it lately? Where's that entitled special snowflake attitude coming from, bro? Get a job, buy your own frickin' osmosis water filter.


Lol, this Detroit idee fixe of yours, what up with that? Don't like Detroit? You got legs, walk away. Or swim to Zimbabwe, they need thinking fellers like yourself over there. You''ll be fartin' through silk in no time :)

In Zimbawe bitcoin could be a good solution for users that have money to invest as a future savings with their inflation bitcoin could be good to increase its money, but not for daily expenses.

From a capitalist stand point. If I bottled up filtered tap water and got you to pay me up to $1.22 per bottle. Who is the smart one in that scenario.... The buyer, or the seller?


LOL people in Flint will literally be dead if they continue to drink that poisonous water

The US has a networth of $123.8 Trillion dollars as someone posted earlier.

Supplying osmosis filters is the least they can do


I dont have any issue at all with Detroit. It's just, I'd expect the government to do something when such a large amount of their population are being forced to ingest poisonous substances that could cause severe health complications

Your government does not care for your health

Your government does not care for your wealth... Hence their QE scams, and whey they relentlessly tax each and every one of you. How does it feel, when you realise that each and EVERY financial transaction that you have ever intiated on US soil has been taxed off and filtered into the pockets of the same government, that is now sitting on the sidelines, watching you guys suffer and offering ZERO relief

I dunno man... Doesn't seem righteous at all to me.



 

You are not only insane, but a freeloader to boot. No one is forcing you to live in Detroit. You don't like it, leave. You're a US citizen, get a frickin' job. Don't bitch about Nanny State taking away your freedoms & demand free osmosis water filters in the same breath.
Or go to Zimbabwe and be an entitled brat there, demand free osmosis water filters & see how that goes.
IF they'll take you :)

LOL, your government taxes the piss out of you and you call me a freeloader. The humor is A1

You shouldn't make assumptions. I'm certainly not a US citizen. Thankfully so.

You work like some kind of slave from 9 till 5, each day... and you're forced, via threat of imprisonment to furnish HUGE chunks of your income to your government.

This is nothing except indentured servitude. Slavery if you will.

Even worse, if your government stopped taxing you - they'd literally have zero money.

Their whole QE, tax scam is nothing other than the equivalent of a share buyback scheme. They print the dollars... deploy these dollars via loans, and then collect them back via taxation so that they can purchase MORE assets for themselves, before further depletion of the spending power of the dollar via more QE

The only reason you have involved yourself in this bitcoin ecosystem is because you have been raped, endlessly by your government. Yet, like Pavlov's dog, the statist conditioning kicks in yet again... and self proclaimed libertarians, anarchists, anti this and anti thats.... revert back to patriots when certain triggers are touched upon

Social engineering at it's finest

Then the US government isn't taxing you. Fix the government of whatever third world armpit you hail from, don't worry about us :)

Get good, you won't have to grind. Doing fine myself, no complaints.

No, I got into Bitcoin because, at first, I was simply amused by the concept, for the same reason as I got into folding@home. Stayed in because it was easy money for a while -- because lunatics and zealots trying to get rich by doing nothing, and I knew the right people. Got out out in the $600s on the way up because couldn't believe my luck.
Doubted my decision when the price hit $1200, but since then? No regrets.

It means that 64% of all foreign exchange reserves are held in dollars. The next closest competitor is the Euro which accounts for 20% of world reserves.

Foreign exchange reserves are what you use to save your country when, for example, your currency tanks or your primary export crashes in value. See Saudi Arabia and Russia - their dollar and euro reserves are keeping them alive in the age of plummeting oil. It means the world has enormous trust in the dollar as the most stable hold of value.

Nobody holds or trusts Yuan outside of China.

Bitcoin is better for countries that are struggling with their banks. Imagine if Greece adapted to bitcoin 2-3 years ago. They would not be in the chaos they were in last year. What bitcoin can do for countries in economic turmoil could save them from disaster. Only if they knew about it first.

If they adopted it 2-3 years ago, they'd be dirt poor. Bitcoin was $1200 2.5 years ago.

So they're gonna spend the last of their foreign reserves buying coins off Chinese neckbeards? I can think of a few things they'd prefer to do.

Either way, you're converting into dollars. Therefore, you lost. There's an entire cloak room, jam packed, with SEVERAL bags of tricks that you missed

You degrade those living in the third world, yet brush over the fact that your aunt sally over in Michigan can't even have herself a warm cup of coffee anymore because of third world style water pollution. Not cool.

Your missing the point of crypto currencies in general, and I wont explain it to you Mr. "cashed out at $600 with no regrets." You clearly have it all figured out.... until those negative rates kick in. You'll be in a pickle then I tell ya

The fact is, when you compare any random nation in africa... Hell, Detroit is a piss stained landfill when compared with an economy like the one in Nigeria... The Oil capital of africa.

This government that you opose.... then defend.... then opose.... doesn't have the money to lift it's own citizens out of peril and pollution. So paying back this $17 TRILLION worth of external debt is a myth. Your precious dollar is due for some good old fashioned debasing which is taking place already, in a gradual and stealthy manner.

Familiar with the term creeping normality?  Creeping normality refers to the way a major change can be accepted as the normal situation if it happens slowly, in unnoticed increments, when it would be regarded as objectionable if it took place in a single step or short period.

Mud water out of Aunt sally's faucet is only the first sign of melt down


Naughty boy... You're using cliches...

What in the world are foreign exchange "reserves?" If mere contributors to some online forum are able to expose the fact that when new dollars are printed into existence, the pre-existing supply loses value - you don't think these central bankers, finance ministers etc are aware of this?

And you want to tell me they are foolish enough to keep this shit pile currency in "reserve" so that their wealth can vanish into thin air. That's not their job.. that's the job of the everyday 9 to 5 slave that has been conditioned to "save" his money instead of investing it.

There are no "foreign exchange reserves"

This is folly, you have to do better than this.

Misinformation. The average American pays 19.8% of their income in federal taxes. The "average" here is misleading because high income earners pay proportionally much more. Someone making in the $40k-$50k per year range, a reasonable salary in most places, only pays 11% in federal taxes. That's a bargain considering they get a massive interstate highway system, the world's largest military, and a robust social security and medicare system that not only protects them in old age but also takes care of them if they become disabled.

OK, you will whine, but state and local taxes will kill them. Not really. Many states like Texas, Nevada, and Florida have no state income tax and sales tax rates across the US are very modest. Many counties also have no local income taxes and many areas have extremely low real estate taxes of less than 1% of the home value per year.

You clearly drank too much of that Detroit tap water. Full of nasty neurotoxins, that. Should have invested in Evian.
- I have no Aunt Sally, in Detroit or elsewhere.
- Made actual folding money from Bitcoin enthusiasts like yourself.
- Don't care about negative interest rates, keeping your money in a savings account is the second-dumbest thing to keeping it in BTC.
- Do not oppose the government. Not born in US, came here, like it just fine. Bitching would be a dick move.
- Swim to Nigeria, the prince is askin' for you.

Wrong China has had the world's largest military for years now.

But, I know... the US propaganda machine is strong... don't worry... We have the internet now: http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/29-largest-armies-in-the-world.html

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/29-largest-armies-in-the-world.htm


Low tax... is better than no tax?

They dont charge one penny of employment tax in Saudi Arabia. Because they have the oil barrels to end all oil barrels.

The only source of income for your beloved US is their QE and Tax fraud that they perpetrate on their citizens. What is the number one rule when it comes to pyramid schemes and ponzi scams? Eventually, they MUST collapse


Don't get how you made money when you converted to USD.

People don't understand the dollar does not have a fixed value. It literally decreases over time. Each and every one of you that convert into dollars and then sit there and say you "made money" make me laugh.

You've got to keep that sum bitch moving across the entire spectrum of asset classes, because there is action to be had EVERYWHERE. But being an economical noob, this has gone over your head. Not to worry, now that I've mentioned it - you'll never forget.

Send your Aunt sally in detroit an osmosis filter, because your government is financially crippled and unable to keep the lights in the white house on, let alone prevent your aunt from chocking on swamp water

^But you said you're not even a US citizen, why baww about US taxes? Got nothing better to do?

So you are claiming the 3.2 trillion dollars China holds in dollars and euros are not real? That's fairly outlandish given that China buys and sells them constantly in open market trades. Lately, they have been doing a whole lot more selling than buying as have most emerging economies. That is why the dollar has risen 35% against a basket of world currencies since 2008.

What that means, to the "9 to 5 slave" like me is that if I travel to Europe or Asia my dollars have about 35% more buying power than they did just a few years ago. Contrast with Bitcoin which has 50% less buying power than it did at its recent peak.

Wait, Nigeria and Zimbabwe are richer than US?

https://i.imgur.com/ZmZc6ZI.gif

@fenican: You're being trolled. It's the "pick an absurd, untenable position, see how many people get worked up trying to prove you wrong" bit.

Of course not. If so, verify this without using cliches.


China is propping up the dollar? Why on earth would it do that?

Think logically... this doesn't make sense... Once you US pays them their money, yes - prop up the dollar, this is logical. But not when the US owes them shit pile of money.

They'd rather collect more dollars, and then they'd run some manipulation. If they were to do that without being paid first, they are literally giving more money to the US - the peasant state of the world, thus increasing this debt that they'll never be able to pay back

Forget comparing the USD to other FIAT currencies... it is a dog and pony show. Since it's inception the US dollar has only gone DOWN, in terms of purchasing power.


In practice, you'd find this to be untrue

Price always adjust to negate things like this

This is economics 101


Errm yeah.. yes.. yah.. indeed. Which expression would your prefer?

Ask yourself how does the United states government generate income for itself? Then ask yourself how the government of nigeria generates it's income...

You'd find that Nigeria is more economically sound than the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

US owes (and has failed to pay) : $17.5 Trillion

NGA owes: 68 Billion

That is a world of difference

Nigeria's oil minister, one person.... Was found with £13 BILLION gbp hidden in an apartment of hers: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6675651/Nigerian-oil-minister-nicked-over-13billion.html

68 Billion is childs play

dumping digital tokens I acquired for next to nothing and getting paid in IRL folding money, that's how. Feelsgoodman.gif

lol, if the dollar dropped in value since I sold BTC, and BTC dropped in value rel. USD, then... Talk about tanking :D

Bro, either cut down on that nasty Detroit tap water or you gotta stay away from DNMs for a bit. Maybe both.

Nearly every credible ranking puts the US at #1, Russia at #2, and China at #3. All credible sources agree China has the ability to defend its mainland very well but has virtually no ability to project power particularly over oceans. The Chinese deep water navy is a joke and their air force is lacking both quantitatively and qualitatively. Empirically, the US has ten times as many aircraft carriers and about six times as many aircraft as China as well as an almost infinite qualitative advantage. Every US F-22 could shoot down about 4 Chinese aircraft before they might down it with a lucky shot and a US Carrier Battle group, one of them, would be about an equal match for the entire Navy of China.

Not if they invested it in another commodities. They can't be that dumb to rely on only one thing in investing into. They did invent civilization after all  ::)

With Nigerian Prince scams? I dunno.


Guessing you huffed a lot of gas as a child, am I right?

Lol, you mean if they didn't sink all their wealth in BTC, they would only have lost 2/3rds of what they did "invested" in BTC?
Can't argue with that.

I guess with Bitcoin, losing 2/3rds of your money counts as a win :-\

I think that for countires with many other needs, bitcoin looks like a dress for monkey, in this country using banknotes is profitable than buy toilet paper and it's not joke.

hahaha very funny gif. Oh is this true what I am reading, that 3rd world country is richer than US?
No,no,no. Try to think again man , whoever said this statement. *Puking

An interesting side note on the Flint tap water - they sell it for $45 a liter in Russia. Apparently it is used, with a bit a airplane fuel and of course some Vodka, to make a trendy cocktail.

I estimate that one third of the population doesn't have electricity nor access to clean water, so the use of something like BTC is a distant dream few are making. They have mobile phones, but no subscriptions, and some people pay one tenth of their monthly income on phone! It's very different from the first world...

Yes, my view of the beauty of bitcoin is very limited.  My background is not in computer science, cryptography, or finance.  But I see it as a potential global currency, and I view that as an amazing breakthrough--almost like having a universal language adopted.  All the things you mentioned sound intriguing to me. 

I'm not even close to being wealthy, but the yobit thing is just pocket change to play around with.  I'd be posting on this forum anyway, so my thing is why not get paid?  Makes sense to me.

This is one of the problems why zimbabwe and well as other 3rd world countries doesn't get into bitcoin, even though there are lots of potential bitoin investors and users in that country still it would be useless because of that problem.

The one megabyte limit, which I am not arguing is unnecessary, probably prevents bitcoin on the block chain from being an applicable currency to a group of people as large as Zimbabwe.  It is as simple as that.  A national currency needs to be paid to everyone in the public sector.  Could the Bitcoin blockchain handle that many more transactions?  The technical problems involving bad Internet is another problem someone has already pointed out.

Perhaps some of the public money could have been put into Bitcoin in order to add transparency and with multisigs, prevent money from disappearing.  I see some good reasons for but the question is whether it would be possible even.

sdp

I agree with the opinion of the author's themes.
Bitcoin for poor developing countries is a great alternative to cash. However, access to the internet there is nothing at all. It is necessary first to provide access and conditions, and then enter cryptocurrency.

Francois Harris, founder Bitcoinzar, an information site for Bitcoin-users in South Africa confirmed a small number of users all over the African continent:
"Real users the Bitcoin, which are used daily by Bitcoin network, and understand how the technology works, probably, they are less than 1,000 people,"

Ok, let's make it simple for you.... If you have to answer this... What will you chose? Dan drives a old rusted Toyota, but it's paid off and he owns it AND his neighbour Pete, drives a brand NEW Porche

911, which he bought with a loan of say $50,000. Who would you say, is the richest between the two neighbours? Dan with no debt or Pete with a outstanding loan of $50 000? The same logic apply to

the USA and Zimbabwe... You see people in the USA driving with NEW Porche's but they are knee deep in debt as a country.  ;)

The neighbor driving the Porsche is obviously richer, what a ridiculous question!
While he owes $50k on his Porsche, the down payment on that Porsche was probably more than his shitbox-driving neighbor makes in a year. The guy driving the toilet Toy wouldn't even be let into the Porsche showroom, forget about getting $50k credit.

But let me flesh out your story a bit. The guy with the Porsche also lives in a house worth $3 mil. He owes on that too. His kids go to the finest privite schools, the eldest to an Ivy League uni. Yeah, that's all on credit also.

The neighbor driving the shitbox that's all paid up? Well, he ain't, strictly speaking, a neighbor. He lives in Zimbabwe, on $1.30 a day. And doesn't really own a shitbox, unless you count the bucket he shits in. His kids don't go to school, but he's debt-free. Excelsior!

Bonus: If the guy driving the Porsche is meant to be US, the $50k US that he owes? He prints that stuff himself, out of thin air :)

The logic in this forum never seize to amaze me, but I like the debate and it keep things interesting. Might I add to this analogy for a second. The guy with the Porsche and the $3 mil house and the kids in the private school, struggle to sleep at night, because he is worried what the Jones's next door will say when he cannot keep up the payments on all of this.

So he takes on a secret second job or steal from work to keep up the appearances and either end up with serious health problems at the age of 45 or do some hard time in jail. He might even be lucky enough to be banker, then he will serve no time and retire on a island.

Meanwhile back in Zimbabwe, life goes on as normal. The guy with the Toyota still vote for a corrupt government and with high probability a dictator. He walks to work, because he cannot afford the petrol with his $1.30 a day and he has 7 kids and is mostly dependent on the government to feed them. He lives to 46, the average life expectancy of a third world country.

It turns out, both of them had a shitty life. ^smile^  

I do not know it depends on the situation in Zimbabwe. How many people there make use or have the luxury to make use of the internet. I am sure that not many people make use or know how to make use of the internet.