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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: the founder on March 22, 2013, 12:04:30 AM



Title: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: the founder on March 22, 2013, 12:04:30 AM
The TOS of both Apple's App Store and Google's Play both say that if I collect revenue from an app,  I have to use Google or Apples in App Purchase System.  Which I have zero problem doing,  however I don't want USD,  I want bitcoins.  Apple nor Google accept Bitcoins as payment.

Would I be violating their rules if I took Bitcoins though the app?

I am just wondering.

 
 


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Remember remember the 5th of November on March 22, 2013, 12:09:03 AM
While I do not know anything about it, I am sure that Apple/Google will find a way to make anything like that illegal.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: glitch003 on March 22, 2013, 12:41:23 AM
Would I be violating their rules if I took Bitcoins though the app?

I can't speak for the Google Play Store, but I'm an iOS developer and I can guarantee you won't get an app that takes Bitcoins into the app store.  Apple made blockchain.info remove their wallet feature, and they will not let you take payment in any form except through the Apple authorized methods.

So sorry man, you're out of luck when it comes to the iOS app store.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Woodcock36 on March 22, 2013, 12:43:35 AM
Would I be violating their rules if I took Bitcoins though the app?

I can't speak for the Google Play Store, but I'm an iOS developer and I can guarantee you won't get an app that takes Bitcoins into the app store.  Apple made blockchain.info remove their wallet feature, and they will not let you take payment in any form except through the Apple authorized methods.

So sorry man, you're out of luck when it comes to the iOS app store.

False. The blockchain.info iphone wallet is still working. I have it on my 5


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: MoneyIsDebt on March 22, 2013, 12:44:55 AM
I believe you're not allowed to circumvent their payment systems.
However, there's nothing stopping you from putting ads in your app, and several services that give bitcoin for ads exist.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Dabs on March 22, 2013, 12:59:43 AM
Can you app programmers make a Satoshidice bot? So I can play on my cell phone. hahahahahahaa. ... ... ... (with optional martinegale "lose all your money" auto pilot mode)


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: grue on March 22, 2013, 01:02:02 AM
Can you app programmers make a Satoshidice bot? So I can play on my cell phone. hahahahahahaa. ... ... ... (with optional martinegale "lose all your money" auto pilot mode)
please... no. don't spam the blockchain.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Herodes on March 22, 2013, 01:31:33 AM
The TOS of both Apple's App Store and Google's Play both say that if I collect revenue from an app,  I have to use Google or Apples in App Purchase System.  Which I have zero problem doing,  however I don't want USD,  I want bitcoins.  Apple nor Google accept Bitcoins as payment.

Would I be violating their rules if I took Bitcoins though the app?

I am just wondering.

Haha - just do it - but don't make the bitcoin stuff visible until the app has been running for say a week on the users phone, that way the verifier that will accept your app, won't stop it at the first roadblock. Then just wait.... till someone finds out and you get booted off from selling any apps. But the collections of bitcoins, they can't take. Haha. And I doubt they will do legal action against you, they'll just boot you off. Let us know how it goes. It most certainly is against their TOS, all things trying to avoid TOS at a site will be punished if discovered.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Littleshop on March 22, 2013, 02:53:37 AM
Would I be violating their rules if I took Bitcoins though the app?

I can't speak for the Google Play Store, but I'm an iOS developer and I can guarantee you won't get an app that takes Bitcoins into the app store.  Apple made blockchain.info remove their wallet feature, and they will not let you take payment in any form except through the Apple authorized methods.

So sorry man, you're out of luck when it comes to the iOS app store.

False. The blockchain.info iphone wallet is still working. I have it on my 5

Shhhhhh.

No, really it is against the rules.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Sage on March 22, 2013, 03:19:09 AM
Very shortsighted of Apple to cling to a dieing system like this.

I'm curious though the potential of developing apps specifically targeted to the Jailbreak market?

Anyone have experience here?

Is it viable?


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Littleshop on March 22, 2013, 03:20:46 AM
Very shortsighted of Apple to cling to a dieing system like this.

I'm curious though the potential of developing apps specifically targeted to the Jailbreak market?

Anyone have experience here?

Is it viable?

The jailbreak market is less then 5% and those people are not all set up for payments like most iTunes accounts are.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: grue on March 22, 2013, 03:20:58 AM
Very shortsighted of Apple to cling to a dieing system like this.

I'm curious though the potential of developing apps specifically targeted to the Jailbreak market?

Anyone have experience here?

Is it viable?
your target audience is definitely smaller, but you have all the freedom you want. you can always make a "approved" version for appstore, and a fully functional version for cydia.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Mike Hearn on March 22, 2013, 09:23:31 AM
Apps are not pro-actively reviewed on the Play Store and the Bitcoin Wallet app actually lets you tip the author directly from inside it. The main reason for the rule is consistency - it makes Android feel slicker and more integrated if you don't have to constantly sign up for 20 different payment systems that are all basically the same but different.

The best thing to do is just try it. If somehow your app gets taken down for not using the in-app payments system, and if I'm still working at Google, I'll go to bat for you. I doubt Bitcoin-accepting apps are going to fragment the marketplace any time soon.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: cho on March 22, 2013, 10:10:18 AM
Wouldn't it be possible to argue (lawyer to lawyer) that sending bitcoins to the app editor cannot be considered as a "payment", since it does not involve "money" ?


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: glitch003 on March 22, 2013, 12:19:45 PM
Would I be violating their rules if I took Bitcoins though the app?

I can't speak for the Google Play Store, but I'm an iOS developer and I can guarantee you won't get an app that takes Bitcoins into the app store.  Apple made blockchain.info remove their wallet feature, and they will not let you take payment in any form except through the Apple authorized methods.

So sorry man, you're out of luck when it comes to the iOS app store.

False. The blockchain.info iphone wallet is still working. I have it on my 5

Yeah, and I bet your 5 is jailbroken too.  Try it on an unjailbroken phone.  The wallet functionality has been completely gutted.  Thus, my point still stands, that Apple will not allow this in their app store.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Gabi on March 22, 2013, 02:35:03 PM
Wouldn't it be possible to argue (lawyer to lawyer) that sending bitcoins to the app editor cannot be considered as a "payment", since it does not involve "money" ?
Apple or Google TOS aren't the law, they can change them and do what they want


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Herodes on March 22, 2013, 04:18:51 PM
Wouldn't it be possible to argue (lawyer to lawyer) that sending bitcoins to the app editor cannot be considered as a "payment", since it does not involve "money" ?
Apple or Google TOS aren't the law, they can change them and do what they want

In fact, Apple og Google wouldn't even need a TOS - they can do whatever the fuck they want - and nobody can do anything - the only thing you could do would be to challenge them in court - but what little dev would have the time or resources to do that ?


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: the founder on April 18, 2013, 10:02:27 PM
Well for an update...  both Google nor Apple replied.





Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: w1R903 on April 18, 2013, 10:23:01 PM
Apps are not pro-actively reviewed on the Play Store and the Bitcoin Wallet app actually lets you tip the author directly from inside it. The main reason for the rule is consistency - it makes Android feel slicker and more integrated if you don't have to constantly sign up for 20 different payment systems that are all basically the same but different.

The best thing to do is just try it. If somehow your app gets taken down for not using the in-app payments system, and if I'm still working at Google, I'll go to bat for you. I doubt Bitcoin-accepting apps are going to fragment the marketplace any time soon.

Mike, this is good to hear.  I've been holding back on doing a Bitcoin-accepting app for Android simply because I thought it had little chance to get it on Play.  I may go forward now, with the understanding that it's still a risky undertaking but that there's at least a fighting chance.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Mike Hearn on April 19, 2013, 06:27:42 PM
There's been a wallet app on the Play Store for years and I did check with a lawyer at one point, they weren't worried. That's no guarantee it'll be OK forever mind you, but like I said, if there's a takedown I'll do my best to fight for it internally. Ultimately though I don't make these rules, and all I can do is advocate.

Android is still OK though because even if you can't get in the Play Store, you can still just distribute your app the old fashioned way from your website.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: the founder on April 19, 2013, 06:29:15 PM
That's not the same thing,  I was asking if I could accept payments in bitcoin as an inapp purchase.



Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Mike Hearn on April 19, 2013, 06:32:31 PM
Yes, I know you were. The answer is I don't know. But if you do accept them (check out Andreas' API for this) and you get kicked off the Play Store, the version with in-app payments could always be distributed outside the store instead.

https://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/wiki/InAppPayments


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: farlack on April 19, 2013, 06:34:04 PM
Would I be violating their rules if I took Bitcoins though the app?

I can't speak for the Google Play Store, but I'm an iOS developer and I can guarantee you won't get an app that takes Bitcoins into the app store.  Apple made blockchain.info remove their wallet feature, and they will not let you take payment in any form except through the Apple authorized methods.

So sorry man, you're out of luck when it comes to the iOS app store.

False. The blockchain.info iphone wallet is still working. I have it on my 5

Yeah, and I bet your 5 is jailbroken too.  Try it on an unjailbroken phone.  The wallet functionality has been completely gutted.  Thus, my point still stands, that Apple will not allow this in their app store.

Since when? My I4S is still working I take payments on it all the time.


Title: Mobile payment apps
Post by: mobile4ever on April 19, 2013, 06:57:38 PM
They ( Apple ) allow an app that shows exchange rates, but they have also taken other
bitcoin apps off their market, presumably because they want to have their own mobile
payment system.


https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/bitcoin-app-free/id452812505?mt=8

http://www.freetalklive.com/content/apple_removes_bitcoin_wallet_apps_monopolize_mobile_payments


I dont know about Google.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: xavier on April 20, 2013, 12:50:03 AM
Man I cant wait to see apple disappear forever.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Epicurus on April 20, 2013, 02:42:37 AM
That's not the same thing,  I was asking if I could accept payments in bitcoin as an inapp purchase.



Definitely not. Apple takes a 30% cut off payments made through their platform. If they want bitcoin to be a permissible form of payment, they'll let users pay with it. Until then, no chance.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: bg002h on April 20, 2013, 09:10:06 AM
eyll
While I do not know anything aboutybe it, I am sure that Apple/Google will find a way to make anything like that illegal.
Or at least profitable :)

Who knows, maybe they'll ask you to use an address they control. ..and they'll pass along the remainder. The accounting would be transparent at least (unlike the current system where ya gotta trust their numbers).


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: westkybitcoins on April 20, 2013, 09:20:50 PM
Man I cant wait to see apple disappear forever.

They probably won't, they have too many fans (and I won't even comment on that,) but we can always dream.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: giszmo on April 21, 2013, 05:20:30 AM
Damn, I wanted to add Bitcoin to my app, too and kind of remember it was something along the line of "alternative ways of payment are ok as long as there is a way to pay through google and this is not more expensive" aka. as long as you also allow users to pay via google, they don't mind you accepting PayPal or Bitcoin etc.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: heidula on April 21, 2013, 12:24:35 PM
You can always add bitcoin to your android app, and publish it on an alternative store (not googles play store). Maybe amazon store, getjar, f-droid or simply self publish it.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: giszmo on April 21, 2013, 04:20:46 PM
You can always add bitcoin to your android app, and publish it on an alternative store (not googles play store). Maybe amazon store, getjar, f-droid or simply self publish it.
Fdroid ... only open source
Amazon ... same system as Google
Google ... 99.9% market share

So there really is no alternative to getting along with Google.


Title: Re: dumb question - I can't get an answer from either Apple or Google
Post by: Mike Hearn on April 21, 2013, 04:45:47 PM
Self publishing is quite feasible. Maybe it's hard to remember, but that's how we distributed software for all the decades up till now ;)

I wonder if you can use in-app purchasing for donations. If so then there should be no problem with accepting Bitcoin too, I guess.