Bitcoin Forum

Bitfinex did not report anything to the Hong Kong police.    They lied. There is no investigation from any authority yet.

You can call yourself the police from HK and they will confirm you that.

In the mean time, take your time and read a very interesting story : https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitfinexs-ceo-seemingly-tried-start-ponzi-scheme



https://s8.postimg.org/nfebzrfmd/1efb85d.jpg      Raphael NICOLLE  - one of the Bitfinex owners

How can you call the cops over the money obtained through an illegal activity being stolen? I'll steal your phone, I'll get robbed and I'll then call the cops because someone stole my stolen phone. It was obvious. Their activity was illegal. Now they're millionaires, and destroyed a lot of lives. We aren't a community of billions, and Bitfinex.. I guess it had a pretty small userbase compared to the lives in this world. So basically, most of them were destroyed now. They didn't call cops... Cops got to be on their way, actually!

It blows my mind that these things happen and it seems that everyone goes silent afterward.  People bitched after Mt. Gox because it was a novel thing at the time.  Then Cryptsy and some other ones I wasn't paying attention to.  The Hong Kong police should get involved, whether it's to investigate the hack or to investigate bitfinex itself.  No one wants to cry "rape".  We are content to be repeatedly gangraped by these assholes, it would seem.  Somehow I think the people who are losing money don't want the cops involved, because of their illegal dealings or whatever.  It's strange.

Well well... no surprise there.
Knew they would turn out to be a hyip, ponzi, scam all rolled into one. ::)

he is young I'm sure he has the intention to deceive and did scaming. it was very clear there was no investigation. and he intends to provide 30% funds lol I think there is no exchange loss due to the hack and then pay 30
% To the users

Not trying to defend an exchange that just lost a big chunk of depositor's money, but as far as I understood the authorities contacted were American ones. But yes, they should have also contacted local authorities if they're based in HK...


This is a big statement. Is there anything supporting this?

everyone goes silent because they are afraid of losing the entire amount they have in Bitfinex. they don't care that Bitfinex lied when they said:

"The theft is being reported to — and we are co-operating with — law enforcement."

This exchanger has stolen 36% from the customers funds. That means over 20 millions USD and they will continue the business. :)

Didn't you want to make a such "biz" as well? Earning 20 mil usd overnight....

Chances that this is an inside job are very high If you ask me , unlike Mt.gox , Bitfinex are playing it smart and trying to give some % to users so users don't get mad and legal shit start , It's just to make it look like a "real hack".

their activity is illegal. Now they are millionaires and destroy many lives . I think it has the userbase is quite small compared to life in this world . so basically most of them will be destroyed now . and they did not call the police .

If Bitfinex didn't report anything to the police, it doesn't matter.
Any of its users can complain to the police now - Bitfinex has replaced their cash with BFX tokens.

Then go call the police again and report the theft yourself. Additionally, if you are affected by this you could (or should) consult with a lawyer.

Exactly what part was illegal if they have truly been hacked? Keep in mind that there is a possibility of this being an internal job although that is currently just speculative talk. The people need to keep in mind that what they are proposing for recovery is much better than filing for bankruptcy.

This is the same thing what happened with Liberty Reserve and none of these bitcoin exchange sites could be trusted anymore. No way to know if they were involved with any HYIPs or Ponzis and now I feel LBC too will face the same situation with so many illegal scams going on. It's only the depositors who lost their funds and they probably can't do anything about it now.

Don't see how you can compare the two. Liberty reserve was not operating with crypto currency, but was running an illegal payment processing operation.
They were supposedly warned many times by authorities that they are to turn off their operation, but they didn't. And they were shut down by force in the end,
with quite the drama and photo shooting on all media.

All that been said, liberty reserve was not a ponzi scheme afaik, while bitfinex on the other hand, is possible to be one, and if it's true that they did not report the incident
to their local authorities , well.. that just raises the question on their legitimacy even more.

From their website, they claimed they have reported to the law enforcement. It is based in Hong Kong, so it should be Hong Kong police.

Bitfinex is  an illegal "payment processing operator" too. They have no license for their activities, neither for broker, neither for money transmitter as any law from HK, China, BVI, etc requires.
Even more, Liberty Reserve didn't steal any funds from their clients like Bitfinex is doing now.

Bitfinex didn't provide any single evidence of the hack. Not even their BTC account from where the funds were "stolen".
Let's remember Bitstamp. They did provide the proof immediately...

Speculative talk is about the so called hack too. Bitfinex didn't provide any single information about that.
How do you know that 36% is the real amount? Because Bitfinex says so ? :)

Yes, they are proposing to give you tokens(nothing) instead of money which is means dust in the wind or in eyes :)

"The BFX tokens will remain outstanding until redeemed in full by Bitfinex or possibly exchanged—upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance—for shares of iFinex Inc"

iFinex Inc is a BVI company and according to BVI laws a " INC" company cannot offer its shares for sale to the public  :) 

this doesn't surprise me, bitfinex wasn't really a regulated exchange service working according to the law. they were big but not regulated so they don't even care because it was the user's money that was stolen not their own.

maybe it was just a beginning, we just need to wait a little bit more i guess

The users should already have to remove their bitcoins from bitfinex when it was hacked a few months ago, at that time I was having a doubt that there will be something problem from the owner and that is why I preferred to stay away from there.

BFXNA Inc is a Hong Kong company which has as its shareholder iFinex Inc , a BVI company.

Bitfinex wants to offer "tokens"(a useless shit) to their clients.

Bitfinex said "The BFX tokens will remain outstanding until redeemed in full by Bitfinex or possibly exchanged—upon the creditor’s request and Bitfinex’s acceptance—for shares of iFinex Inc""

Bitfinex will do an illegal thing again. It will offer shares to public even it's forbidden by the BVI law as an "Inc" company to do that.

Have the people who had deposits in Dollars been able to withdraw the funds on the site, or are they tied to the legal case as well ?

As for the case, if the exchanges aren't taking any action, then people should take actions towards the exchanges.

There is a discount on all assets held by the exchange, whether it is dollars or bitcoins.
It is not that only those who held bitcoins on the site are going to lose out.

french guy moves to asia to set up a bitcoin exchange that accept dollars to become the main exchange of the bitcoin ecosystem... it gets "hacked"
not original storyline in everyway

I don't think so if they wanna call the police and the police will wanna to take care of their cases. because like the DAO there is a petition for FBI to take care of the DAO cases and until this time, the result is negative.

I would think they would be increasingly legally liable/complicit if they didn't report this, given the sheer magnitude of the funds stolen here.. Beyond the shadow of a doubt this has been reported, or surely the citizens have swarmed local law enforcement with individual complaints. There is simply too many people and too much money involved in this for the cops not to bite.

So if BVI law forbid offering shares to public than this distributing share to compensate user loss is just another lie from bitfinex?

When it abruptly went offline for days it was a clear sign something was wrong. People should have heeded that warning and removed their Bitcoins. Nonetheless Bitfinex was the biggest exchange for liquidity, and trading in large amounts of coins was only feasible on Bitfinex. The markets of the other exchanges were too small for whales.

The whales could only choose to trade at Bitfinex or not trade at all. Some risked it and paid the price.

it will be ANOTHER illegal thing that Bitfinex wants to do it along with others from past : market manipulation, inside trading, accounts blocked without any reason, stolen funds from client's accounts and this 70 MIL USD so called hacked which is an inside job too.

iFinex Inc(Bitfinex) cannot issue shares to public. judge yourself about that :)

If you report a crime in my country, you are immediately given a case number as proof that you did report the crime and also for a reference when you want to report it to the insurance companies. It

then gets investigated by both parties. The question is ... What proof do these guys have that they reported it to the authorities. {case number} and did they have any insurance against these types of

events? Just imagine them claiming from insurance and pocketing the money for themselves and not paying it out to the people who got hacked.  ::)

i wonder did any of the victims of this hack, i mean any of the people who had funds on bitfinex exchange and it was lost, report to the police about it and file any kind of complaint about them?

or is everybody waiting for others to do it!

The only insured bitcoin exchange is the Gemini. I heard that it has FDIC protection. But I am not sure if that applies to bitcoin or not.

You can't be serious. >:(
These exchanges that were hacked were not insured? :o
Why would people even have any confidence in the first place to endow their bitcoin, in reality being the equality of money, to these companies if they knew this fact when agreed their terms of service registering an account with them? ::)
This to me just does not make any sense. :-\

Aware of that being a possibility, but didn't they say the dollar markets were unaffected and they were likely not going to be using that to compensate for the losses ?

Yes i agree with you, because police needs enough prove for processing the case and without it never running. And The processing of law needs much time too, so let's wait and see about this problem.

I thought the police and FBI/CIA/CID were finished with their investigations. Or are they ongoing?
There has not been any news recently on any new leads in catching who do this and details on how they got away with it.
Like many here I am thinking it was stolen from within the company and thus bringing fourth to light that it was in fact a ponzi scheme.

I specifically kept cash on the exchange knowing it would be less likely to be hacked...

Has there ever been a case like this where the hacker was found after an investigation ? Most of these big money hacks usually make sure that either they are completely anonymous, or they do the required leg work to cover up everything well enough to not be caught.

we can not keep silent by this.its not just about us but if we are silent then they will get the advantage we shoud take some step on this.someone who's money is not lost should report it to the police just they should investigate it

fdic is dollars only. gemini might have bitcoin insurance, the only phrasing on their site is 'fully protected, but i'm not sure.

i'm pretty sure coinbase is insured for hacks at their end but let's see a genuine payout before having minds put at rest.

bitpay tried to claim on their insurance after an employee fell for some incredibly obvious scam. the insurance company told them to screw themselves. can't say I blame them.

HongKong is Han Chinese they invented stealing

Liberty Reserve also was dealing with all kinds of illegal activities like hyips, ponzis which is why the owner was arrested and the funds were seized and here also it's the investors who may face issues in withdrawing their funds due to Bitfinex being itself illegal.  The news of LR just came as a shock where the website was shut down immediately while here Bitfinex is probably lying about stolen funds. These payment processors operating without a valid license should never be trusted.

They seperated from China in along time ago.  :-\

Let's be honest. He's young, he might not have seen that much amount of Bitcoins in his life. Scamming the members would be an easy task, simulate a hack, and withdraw properly. You're done.

I have learned my lesson since Mt.Gox and since then I don't keep my coins on exchanges. I always keep them in my wallet as I like to save them like something precious and I can defend them better by holding them myself than letting someone else be in charge of my coins. More and more exchanges going down with the same excuse, there is something to be learned here. Only keep very few coins there if you do trading and withdraw as soon as you finish doing so.

if you want to compare like that then 90% from BTC  is coming from illegal activities :)

So your saying this heist was initiated by a 15 year old kid?  ???

Just milling around the internet in his mother's basement?

Now if that is true then the army of security experts who were hired to keep the site from this happening have alot of explaining too do.  :-\

But you don't really have like 40 min. or so when news breaks. You need to be ready.

Well the fact bitcoin isnt a currencie regulated makes any attempt to find the people behind the hack be almost impossible to find, how can they contact police since bitcoin isnt regulated, soo there is nothing you can wait from those bitcoins lost, during the hack or even if were just cashout from admin.

Mybe this is not so unbelivable. Many good hackers are very young, these days kids get more and more educated abou IT technologies and Internet and hack forums are great source for their knowledge. But in this case many circumstances should be yet explained so we would see.

But these youngster have no sense of ethics?
They don't know what they are doing is wrong? Stealing people's money.
On one hand they can not be arrested until they are 18 years old. So this might be their incentive to do this at that age knowing fully well if they get caught they won't have to go to jail. Just have mommy and daddy pay the fines and get off scott free. ::)

"The digital-currency exchange also plans to compensate clients for losses from the $65-million theft with tokens of credit"

This is totally ridiculous, who in his sane mind would belie that these tokens will be worth even 1 cent. Give people their money back.
Not some virtual tokens no different that newly created altcoin, dirt cheap promises are probably better that these tokens.

Maybe the tokens will work like one big ICO

Now that would a big kick in the face of the customers who want answers and their bitcoins back.

is there a law that could confirm the report i mean if the owner bitfinex report the matter to the police the hacker can snare by law.

I think it is yet to be seen what will happen for this case, but I for sure don't believe that bitfinex is a collapsed ponzi

not to HK police where their company is registered.

in short, Bitfines will no report anything because it's running an illegal forex/broker without license and first of all, the police will ask them about that...

So is there any hope for these tokens generating massive profits, making them vastly superior to the fiat they are stealing?

how can they do that? they need "pocket" money for their entire life :)

I warned about Bitfinex since years ago. Many said that it's FUD, stupid idiots and brain washed kids. They born like yesterday and they think that they know everything about e-currencies. :)

BTC-e, Kraken, the chinesse exchangers  will end the same in a very short time. all these are unlicensed, uninsured so...illegals. their clients will get nothing back.

Well of course a huge %age of the problem here is that U.S. users can't really spread their assets across various exchanges in the way that nearly everyone else can. So no shock that the infamous U.S.-hater of Europe had its country represented in Bitfinex ownership ;)

i also dont believe that, i think that it might have been a theft for sure, though there is a big possibility that the thief is not going to return all the bitcoins

Lol, in every place the thief is always not wanna to return all of the goods is he stolen. maybe you forget before becoming a thief they already have any intentions to fall in that jobs and dealing with all of the risky.

The thing happened in bitfinex was clearly saying you shouldnt keep your btc in a exchange site. I wonder what site wil be the next to say the same as others that they are hacked.

If I knew this is what he looked like, would not have traded there lol. He just looks like he will lose your money

There is nothing stopping members from reporting this to the Hong Kong police. If you have lost money, you have experienced a theft - so report it, and let the police investigate.

if he is a ponzi scammer, it is very serious, i think this thing will harm bitcoin industry. cheap price can be but the market will be low for a long time.

next will be BTC-e and Kraken

A little bit of fun in sad times : Hitler gets a Haircut :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN4RdrN80ic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN4RdrN80ic)

In the end, there's nothing you can do but sue

Care to explain why you think Kraken will be hacked? I would count that one as one of the more thrustworthy exchanges.

Does you can call the bitcoin is a money by seeing that from the constitution ?maybe the police will not wanna to take care of your problem. because they will ask you,if the bitcoin is not writing in the constitution and not included lawful currency.

what he said looks more like a spam and nonsense to me.
but technically speaking according to what has happened so far with different exchanges i would never exclude any of these services from being hacked. they are all at risk. some more than others.

it's depending on how good are their securities if it's just as bad as bitfinex (if bitfinex was really hacked due to security issues) then it's just about the time although i don't think they're that dumb to not learning from the past of another exchangers

why is Kraken "one of the most trustworthy exchangers" ? what's the difference between Kraken and Bitfinex?

It really does not matter what Bitcoin status is. As long as someone steals anything from you that has some value, it is a theft. No matter whether it is bike, cash or Bitcoin. I see this misconception often though, I mean thinking nothing can happen to you if you steal Bitcoins. What only really matters is whether you can prove somebody stealed you the bike, cash or Bitcoin.

i dont think it was just a ponzi scheme, it was a real theft

If an ugly French CEO tells you he has a bitcoin exchange he is operating from Asia - RUN!!!!!

What the fuck is it with French Ex-Pat thieves?  Is this normal for them?

I doubt it. Despite the skeptics, BTC-e has proven to be a stable and serious exchange since years. Regardless, one should not store Bitcoin on any exchange longer than absolutely necessary.

The alleged involvement of the Bitfinex founder in multiple Ponzi shemes, including the infamous BST raises significant questions regarding the nature of the "hack". The deletion of social media profiles is certainly not aiding in establishing trust.

It will be interesting to see the further investigative progress - if any is made. The significant amount of stolen funds should at least trigger significant attention from law enforcement.

ya.ya.yo!

You have a point.  His 'closeness' to previous scams says he did it.  I'll bet .5BTC he will be in jail in less than 6 months.  Even the US will try to get him because they have already been close to him in the past.  Good chance he won't survive this theft. 

yeap, there are people who lost millions of usd. I don't think these individuals will let the things as they are because they own resources, they know people who can do "things" :) ... they will recover the money in a "way"(legally or not) or other.

That's enough of that kind of talk!  No violence.  Why would guys give $1 million to a guy with a known history of relationships to Ponzi?  You'd think these guys with $1million were doing their due diligence. 

That's why you should all go trade with Kraken.  The others are fully bullshit.  Gonna lose your money.

it's not violence. it's a fact. there are people/companies who had millions in this shit called Bitfinex. Why? Because of the profit. guys with millions invest in many things and they don't care too much if Bitfinex owners had a HYIP or not. These guys will recover their funds because the "hack" doesn't exist and even so, they don't care. :)

regarding to Kraken, another illegal company. these ones are based in USA(very stupid thing) and they don't have any money transmitter license. why? because they are too greedy to invest like others (Gemini,Coinbase,Itbit, Circle, Bitstamp). So, it's a matter of time until you will hear "Feds shut down Kraken".

Even they are vocal in BTC the media, Kraken remains a shaddy and illegal company.

But, whether all of the bitcoin companies is an illegal company? and don't have a license for that? and running their business by shrouded?. like bitstamp, coinbase they're not having a licensed for that?

I doubt that. If all of this is planned then he knows a way out of it. He wont do it with that large amount without safe passage going to a luxury bed.

Yeah that is true, but the thing is I don't think it would have been possible, because bitfinex was a long standing and they always provide the best service to all its users. We can only conclude that, however if the conclusions we are wrong, then we will owe the owner of bitfinex because it is already doing something that is not true!! . Better wait for further news from bitfinex and if there isn't any news then we can conclude that.

We cannot directly conclude that its a ponzi scheme because there is no direct evidence that it is one but by the facts given there is really something shady about it.Knowing that the CEO is connected to a scammer before and he defended him makes him not trustworthy and now he is nowhere to be found.If this is true that he really scammed the users then it's really heartbreaking especially for those that have big amount and to add more pain making the users absorb its losses.

Of course they didn't do that, it would be a suicide if they did that. They're just trying to rebuild their reputation, before they run away without a trace and really lost.

I don't know why but for some reason Bitfinex always felt a bit shady to me. When I got into Bitcoin late 2013, I tried a few trading platforms, Bitfinex was pretty new back then, I gave them a try but they just didn't seem very trustworthy to me. I went with Bitstamp and never regretted it. Later on I was really surprised to see how popular they had become. 

WOah he looks yound and he looks like cocaine user where he can now build a factory of cocaine , it's obious that their activity is illegal and people keep on investing and trading on their website now people are silent because of what happen on bitfinex i think this is inside job and now their are now millionaire congrats bitfinex owner <3

They no longer operate out of Hong Kong -- it's just a mailing address for their attorney at this point.  Previously, when they did, the name of the company with the Bitfinex licensing in HK was "Renrenbee Limited."

That said, their holding company and major incorporated interests are registered in the British Virgin Islands as offshore companies, their servers are hosted by a datacenter in Italy, and their back office functions moved to Taipei, Taiwan earlier this year.  Their primary bank relationship is in Taiwan, as well (CATHAY UNITED BANK).

You can't simply "call Hong Kong Police hrrr derrrr" to figure this one out. It's a little more complicated than that.

it's shady like other exchangers as well. how does it feel BTC-e or Kraken? :)

Bitfinex came up with the idea of these BFX token pretty quick, almost makes one think that this was a planned.
Does anyone know if bitfinex had a plan for releasing token in the event of a hack? I think one other exchange did this some time back but can't remember who it was.

of course, they had this idea because the owners are coming from the HYIP's world where you must have ideas if you want to make profit. they know who to manipulate some people. :)

Looks like everything is planned very well. Scattered everything so that there will be no traces after closing all of those. I envy them for they have a lot of money now. But there is a price for everything that is done using an evil work.  :P

Yeah, something evil will surely be awarded something similar to them that despite the plea, duty, or trust to all existing schools around the same down and College is also the same. Even confused himself, mending wait making the new sim so take care about marriage ....?

Okay haha!
This really made me laugh while I was watching the video and at the same time, feel a little depressed for having one of the supposedly best exchangers go down.

they want to continue the business as usual and the people may forget in time that the were robbed :)

Well, that's no surprise. Bitfinex is interested in brushing this under the rug, not introducing more law enforcement agencies. They have said that the FBI and some European law enforcement agencies are investigating -- if you want to believe that.

I am more curious about the FBI or US Attorney's investigations into Bitfinex's actions. You can't serve US customers then flout US law. That will get your site shut down and bank accounts seized.

US Attorney's investigations will start once  few US clients will make complaints that Bitfinex has stolen 35% from their money and that Bitfinex is issuing illegal securities like those shit tokens.

I thought the Bitfinex token is just a token, it is not a security. But the US law might think the situation differently.

I'm not sure this happened this time (just wasn't following the full story), but something like this did happen with Mt.Gox, right? Also I heard similar stories about some darknet markets. Too bad some people still don't know that stealing is wrong.

a company cannot issue tokens just like that. that means ...issuing securities and Bitfinex did it out of any financial law... :)

Well, bitcoin is money, and with money, there's crime. And stealing is a crime so it's not something to be surprised of anymore. It is just feels a bit scary that this is kind of considered a fact now.

what? they should know it that this is an illegal thing to do shouldnt they? i really doubt that it is not allowed thing

The must have some sort of legal standing to do this, they wouldn't have done it without checking with the lawyers first.

Making all your customers take a 35% haircut even if they weren't affected by the hack seem wrong to me but they seem to think they can get away with that too.

Don't assume they have legal standing. Having a lawyer sign off on something doesn't mean you aren't breaking laws. You don't know the extent of their counsel's exposure to liability, and they may have recommended against this scheme.

If you read the terms of the BFX tokens, it is very hard to argue that they aren't securities. They are clearly some kind of bond, and possible a convertible bond (depending on the outcome of this equity talk). As such, issuing them to US customers was illegal, because they are unregistered securities. It's a criminal felony. It is likely illegal elsewhere as well, but you know, the US government is the world police, and if anyone is going to bring down Bitfinex, it's them.

Not sure if they will get away with the haircut, either. That was illegal asset conversion under any common law country (like Hong Kong, for example). A creditor needs to wait 21 days after issuing a statutory demand to Bitfinex before he can attempt to force them into bankruptcy. It is likely that no one served them the week of the hack... so it is possible we see attempts to force them into bankruptcy/lawsuits in the next couple weeks.

They just converted 1.1% of their BFX back. Just wow !

How much did they pay for the converted BFX? If that is below the face value, the investors/traders still lose money.

They did not have to "pay" - they created BFX from nothing, they just change numbers in database as they are pleased ;)

correct BUT it seems that they clients are happy with that. many idiots in this world !   ;D ;D ;D

What the reason they run ponzi schemes,they can benefit from the transaction fee from every transaction made. I was think they are already making huge profits by cut the cost for transaction.

they paid out like $800k. that's meaningless, they held onto millions of dollars (as opposed to repaying customers) to keep in operations. that's where the 1% came from. look at their volume -- you think fees paid for that? the whole Bnktothefuture think is sketchy as hell. i would stay the hell away from this place...

good advice but there are so many brain washed. :)  Bitfinex and most of the other exchangers have FAKE volumes. Still, many are using them. Bitfinex will be closed soon.

And how do you force them to close ? People still use Bitfinex.
https://www.bitfinex.com/stats (https://www.bitfinex.com/stats)

That is quite surprising.

Yes I think there needs supervision to exchange site so they are not easily issued a statement that they have been hacked, which in fact we never know what really happened.

I think the exchanges should be regulated. They should be insured to do a business. It should be like Gemini.

correct! but as you can see there are so many brain washed who do not care about that and then, they are coming to complain that their funds are "stolen" :)

There are few others along Gemini. Itbit, Coinbase, Circle...all these are regulated(licensed).

i'm not even sure if they are faking volume -- it is incredibly low already. :P a huge drop from their previous volume (as expected). but maybe it is pumped, even then. i do know some people trading there -- against my complaints -- so not everyone has left.

in time, i think these guys will be shut down (or voluntarily enter liquidation).