Bitcoin Forum

http://satoshibonus.blogspot.com/2016/08/bitfinex-share-loss.html

Bitfinex asks users to help in Recovery by sharing the loss.

Well, I had fiat on Bitfinex. I checked my emails and I don't see them asking me anything at all.

maybe only for those with a big amount? they are going to negotiate this as much as possible to avoid bankrupt

Bitfinex closes (because of the bankrupt).

Every money lost.

So I think it is a scam.


Edit:
Not every money, only 64%, 36% saved (~4.6m of dollars).

there is more money in it for them to scrape and negotiate as much as they can, and recoup via their commission....they would project to be making a lot more in the long term than this $65m loss if they were to continue operating in the future....
i think an investor will buy a chunk of shares to partially pay everyone off, and eventually pay off most/everyone who lost out if they are really interested in keeping it going

Maybe.

But a big company as the Bitfinex does not make it:


It is a scam.

A lot of posts lately popping up for the next scam of bitcoin exchanges which is pretty much an inside job. They just want to keep users quite with that 36% refund. Of course taking for them more than 30 mln USD in bitcoin should be more than enough in enjoying a luxurious life if these scammers are chinese douchebags. Of course they have never seen more than 300 USD as monthly payment in that country. Don't keep bitcoins in exchanges end of story.

SOURCE = GURADIAN

GURADIAN ??????

err

Guardian news  ;D

That's the point.

yes, keep your btc to wallet. i hope poloniex does well, and won't be hacked in the future, they had one hack before, hope it will be safe forever.

giving them a time is fine but if it's about the money, i guess the one who make the mistake here is the company and not the client,so,if they're asking about the money or cutting client's fund until 36%,doesn't make sense at all

It will be interesting to see, if this recovery plan will work out. After all, it is an offer. Given the circumstances I would also say it is a pretty good offer. At least it is much better than having another Mt.Gox-style bankruptcy.

If I was a Bitfinex user I would feel great relief that not all funds are lost. On the other hand, questions remains regarding the circumstances of the hack. An inside job is a possibility, of course. Since a professional investigation seems to be ongoing, I'm pretty sure that we will ultimately find out the truth, or at least 80% of it. But I guess this will take some time. Anyway, 64% is clearly better than nothing, so the hack/scam landscape of Bitcoin seems to be somewhat changing in favor of the victims... ;)

ya.ya.yo!

source = http://blog.bitfinex.com/uncategorized/bitfinex-interim-update/

I thought it would never recover, even though they have the funds to not go bankrupt. but the belief some people have already lost. so sooner or later bitfinex will soon be bankrupt.

Exactly what I wanted to say  :D

Almost 40% funds still remain in them that is good point however it will be interesting to see how they will plan for BFX tokens they have distributed right now. They are trying to still exist after lossing majority of customers funds they hold don't know how they can manage to increase trust of traders to their system again.

Hahahaha, what a good joke!

Steal tens of thousands of $s from me, and then ask me to pay you for it! What?! :D The owners stole the money, and now they're requesting even more from us. Illegal activity doing more illegal stuff after a crime!

Tell me how are the same systems being used on the exchange websites and just one of them got hacked. If the hackers would have really existed, all exchange websites would've gone down.

they are bankrupt now because of what happen last week and ofcourse they're trying to negotiate those who invested big amount everyone's money lose so if they will continue to run the website they probably get some problem where they need a sponsor to keep the site running and to pay those who lose their money . i think this is a inside job

I think it's very unfair for their users to be asked to foot the bill. They messed up and have no right to do this. This should be investigated thoroughly and deposts/withdrawals/trading should be suspended until the hows and whys of the hack is resolved.

Yes its Unfair

But I think Users will get good profit if this goes well

Just lure their ex-users to wanna put the money again into them, maybe caused by sharing their loss they think can get a sympathy from the bitcoin users. but all of that is not working for now because they cases is giving a big impact for the people's mind for never to put or following them again.

you will see how many will continue to use Bitfinex despite the fact that it's a scam website. they will run with 70 MIL USD and the people are happy that they "only" lost 36% from funds. :)

any exchanger can do the same from now on; giving you shit virtual tokens instead of your money. a generation of retards :)

 First they lost money, and now they are asking for help? And they ask people who already lost money to give them more? Is that is what is happening or I didn`t understand it good?

 This is just crazy, I hope people will not fall again on the same thing. Investing money in something like this can be very dangerous, what if they are preparing for some final hit & run? Well I`m not so much into trading, and all this sites, I just know to smell a scam and when I do I run away from there very fast. People should be smart this time, and why don`t you make a group here with people who lost money there and to try to do something together. People are stronger when they are connected and when they fight together!

I'm sorry, Bitfinex asks users?   ???

"Ask" implies users have a choice in the matter.  They aren't asking shit, they're taking it whether their customers like it or not.  Using the word "ask" is just trying to put a positive spin on a bad outcome.  Theft is theft, call it what it is.

And just in case it needs to be said again:

Rule #1 of Bitcoin is that if you don't have control over the private keys, you don't have control over your bitcoins.  Exchanges are not banks.  Don't trust others to keep your bitcoins safe. It's your responsibility.

It is like I killed your wife but please trust me I wont kill your next wife.  ;D Damn bullshit. Trust is broken already if someone bites that then history will be created.
Guiness record "Top Idiot in Human Life"

Yeah looks like they are starting a new step to get trusted for people and collect some bitcoin to dump all after they scam again..
Better to bait again broken is broken better to go in other exchange site.

What does it actually mean?  are customers who only delt in other cryptos being punished also?  if it is only bitcoin holders then fair enough.  getting back over 60% is better than nothing to be honest

if you have not learned the lesson of never keeping funds in an exchange.. and have lost out due to bitfinex.
please take this advice

as soon as withdrawals are open.. WITHDRAW your 64% active balance..
only keep the 36% tokens in your balance.

if you think bitfinex is legit and will honour the debt
REMOVE THE 64%
do not presume that keeping the 64% with them will somehow guarantee you more chance of getting the 36% back too.
accept it psychologically as a 36% loss, forget it and dont stress over if/how/when you will get returns... then if the tokens later do become of value, accept it as a bonus, like a christmas present.
play around and trade only the tokens(36%) to try to maximize its potential

if you think bitfinex is risking bankruptcy or maybe entering into a ponzi to repay debt
REMOVE THE 64%
accept it psychologically as a 36% loss, forget it and dont stress over it... then if the tokens later do become of value, accept it as a bonus.
afterall if a government investigation/bankruptcy filing happens, ALL assets/holdings and funds are frozen for years, leaving only pennies on the dollar if lucky after a few years wait.

now things to watch out for.
1. somehow the exchange is offering discounted trade orders (EG like mtgox trading at $100 when other exchanges were at $300) dont put funds in hoping to grab large profits. as thats the ploy they want. if they were legit their trades should be the same as other exchanges.

2. equity swap. they try to talk you out of any funds recovery by offering you a stupidly low % share in a company ran from a basement with stipulations that you cannot sell for X month/years. companies like this does not have much physical assets (only a couple servers and some office chairs). its not like the company has a mortgage free skyscraper or anything large that can be sold off for millions.

3. profit shares. they try to talk you out of any funds recovery by offering you a stupidly low % share of their trade fee profits. do not expect to escape being a debtor with false promises of privately grabbing a portion of the 0.3% trade fee's. where the company obviously shouldnt be making any profits anyway due to all cashflow legitimately meant to go back to debtors.

4. affiliate program. they try to talk you into some commissions, bonuses or faster debt recovery by finding new customers. red flag ponzi.

in short. take out the 64% active balance you have remaining and then see how things play out

Nobody is going to take any of my Bitcoin from my paper wallet and give it to other people.... Why, because I store ZERO bitcoins on these dumb exchanges and I have FULL control over the bitcoins I

own. This is no worse than banks taking money from people's accounts and paying for their employees mistakes. This is totally absurd and borders on theft. As a exchange, you only have the right to

manage these funds by keeping them secure... not diving into people's money as if you own them.  ::)

Bfx was all handled pretty poorly

I can't really see anyone wanting to help them out, not after a substantial loss like that.

yes that should concentrate on solving the problem and recovery of the lose instead of appealing to he people to help them in shares, they should first make their system more secure and untill thy have not done these recommendation they should suspend all their activities.

I really think bitfinex is done.
If they can not compensate the lost money on theirown, they should not be active anymore.

Well, I think it is a scam. very difficult to return the stolen bitcoin that much, especially if bitcoin has been sent to various wallet, well, of course it will be difficult, even can not, so I guess it is a fraud who simply used this opportunity to make a profit

I think the Bitfinex should take the loss. It should let the client take over the company if it does not want to declare bankrupt.

As far as I know, EVERYONE will get a 36% haircut on their accounts, no matter if you had BTC, ETC, ETH, or DOGE, and independently of quantities stored on their wallets, which is insane.

Their price ticker has been down since all this has happened.
This is not an encouraging sign to say the least if they are asking help from the customers that lost money because of their incompetence. ::)

Wow, it is more, than enough.   ;D

If I had any funds there I would withdraw them as soon as possible when they open up withdrawels... There is likely to be a massive bank run after they open up again and seeing how only bitcoin are missing, they have limited coins available to handle the withdrawels (unless they start buying them with the fiat they hold, which is possible as also fiat holdings get a haircut). Let alone potential law suits and bankrupcy around the corner.. get those funds out..

After that, the only thing you can do is hope the placeholder coins somehow turn into something of value over the coming years to lessen the blow.

To the ones saying bitfenix should take the loss.. That will probably result in a mt. gox situation where the people still don't have their coins after 2 years... I would rather have 70% of my coins now than a chance for more after a looooong process..

Yeah if this is true that bitfinex are asking for help because its impossible that they will be asking..
For its smell fishy if he is asking to borrow some coins and deposit in there business..
Its risky.

They already lost their reputation and I don't think that they will ever recover from this loss.
They will probably bankrupt so any new funds send now will be lost again.
People, please be smart, don't trust such services any more and try to keep your funds in more secure places like your own wallets.
Of course, always check your computer and Internet security.

It's better than another Mt.Gox-style bankruptcy for the customers, and the Bitfinex owners if Chinese prisons are as rough as Japanese prisons. Have you seen how much weight Karpeles has lost in a Japanese prison? He went in a fat blob and came out like a matchstick man.

If the same fate awaits the Bitfinex owners if they are jailed, then avoiding it through this recovery plan is the best deal they could hope for.

you are right.. its maths
imagine the exchange had (simplified numbers for demo only)
$400k held in bitcoin
$200k held in altcoins
$400k held in dollar
totals $1m combined holdings (simplified numbers for demo only)

now imagine 36% of $1m total (combining of funds to spread the loss) was lost.
yet we know it was not other funds just bitcoin lost.. so that means $360k of only bitcoins are gone!!

thats basically most of the real bitcoin reserves ($400k holdings, $360k loss = only $40k bitcoin (10%) left in reserves )

those bitcoin customers which initially counted up as $400k total holdings were told they had $400k with 36% loss.. meaning they are WRONGLY being told that there solvent balance of 64%, which logically accounts to $256k of bitcoin.. when actually there is only $40k of bitcoin in the pot.

in simple terms $360k bitcoins LOST of $400k. bfx is saying to bitcoin holders, that they are solvent of bitcoins to a tune of $256k, yet physically only have $40k(in this demo)

they cannot magic the other $212k of bitcoin into existence out of thin air.
and that missing $212k is not even part of the 36% theft.. but the missing bitcoin of the "solvent balance, that has been offset by alts and dollar..
and needs to have bitfinex buy bitcoins on other exchanges to cover just that 64% solvent balance

so ofcourse there will be a bank run while bitcoin holders owed $256k(the 64% in my demo), try to fight to withdrawal the $40k bitcoin left in a few days.
as it will take alot longer for bitfinex to try to get the other $212k(demo number) from other exchanges.

in short (my demo amounts)
$40k actual reserves= circle hole 1inch diameter
$256k solvent balance = square peg 6inch wide

even after this.. if bitfinex manages to sort out the solvent part by obtaining bitcoin from other exchanges.. they then have to work on the 36% loss

Saying the truth 36.067% is a bit high for users but at least they are not locking the other funds (~64%), seeing how the other exchanges behave when they got hacked then bitfinex seems better than them, it's still better 64% than nothing.

They "lost" money, or someone stole that money, and now they wish help to recover their loses? To me that sounds like they are trying to get out of the problems, but its big question can this recovery program work. They will need a lot of help, and they don`t have licences and based on problem they have I doubt they will find enough people to help them.
Its nice that they are trying to do something, but for them it seems like its too late for everything. I don`t wish to make any wild predictions, I just don`t believe in success, trust is fragile thing, easy to break and its very hard to get it back.

They have no right to make claim on user funds, but i guess even that is better than outright closing down. If people indeed get shares
that would enable them to recoup their losses as exchange continues with it's trading - i guess people won't find it as intrusive as it is.

"Following the theft on August 2nd, the Bitfinex team has been working tirelessly towards bringing the platform back online in a secure and controlled manner. We have finalized the accounting of losses incurred and are currently coordinating strategic plans for compensating customers.

We intend to come online within 24-48 hours with limited platform functionality. Additional announcements will be made as we progressively enable more platform features and return to full operations. We appreciate that our customers and the public want this handled quickly, but it needs to be done a way in which all assets are secure and immune from vulnerabilities. Every resource is being leveraged to make that happen in a safe and optimal way..."

Wow.
Have they used "words" to explain why Bitfinex supposedly had such a large amount in a hot wallet?

Man, so this is pure fraud. They have created this hacker or together with the organized theft.

Must be they ask for help only for big amount holders. I didn't have any contact with this site and found out about it only after it's hacking, it was on every news. Don't know what happen with users who's money were stolen. Will the site come back pi

i suspect they want to convert the big holders into company share holders and release the debt. and then use that "free credit" to the smaller holders. EG turn their entire 100% bitcoin holding (64% solvent and 36% debt) into shares to use the large holders bitcoins elsewhere and prevent as large of a bank run as possible.

i could also see they may also want to just pay off some of the really small holders completely and in full as another plan, simply to have less arguments, less numbers of people that are threatening them at as little cost as possible. and hope it inspires some positive drama by small holders celebrating they got bailed out quickly

They could just be trying to write some debt off their books before going into bankruptcy.
Does anyone think a business can recover after a loss like this?
I've been away for a few days and missed most of the drama. Wern't they wiped out completely?
If they had their reserves emptied I would be surprised if they were able to keep the doors open more than another month or two.

Maybe the chance for the business can recover their self is always there but in this cases, it's too fast for bit fine to recover their business, but I sure in my opinions they just not wanna to losing the momentum about the bitcoiners is still believe with them. but that's so amazing to healing with a short time period. :o

Well the thing is they cant recover those 120k bitcoins, soo they are offering part of the company, i dont know how fair this is being for the costumers, now imagine a big farmer using them and lost a big part of those and now they have others people bitcoins, i dont know how far this will go.

yeah if they continue to run the website the site will be bankrupt because of what happen thats a lot of money if he/she going to pay all the bitcoins or coins that lose in that exchange website i think the best solution to keep the site running is to find some sponsor who can sponsor the recovery of the website where the people going to trust them again

funny, but justifiable since the loss is too heavy and bitfinex asked, you did.

Bitfinex is done. if people do manage to get what they have left out of there, they should consider themselves lucky. but this is a positive thing for bitcoin, since the price didn't drop too much and it's been recovering since the "hack".

Times like these just make me so glad I'm no one of those naive newbies that get into these Ponzi / exchanges. There will ALWAYS be another hack or inside job. Get out of exchanges and stay out!

Yeah, even though they're back online and operating. I think it is too risky if you keep using their services. Because really you say, there is always the possibility of breaches. Better holding your bitcoin in your wallet. hehe

*Sigh* this is what will happen.

They will look for investors to buy Bitfinex with its massive debt obligations. No one will accept such a high risk and long term investment. Even if they could overcome the horrifically bad PR, it would take a decade to recoup the loss.

The website will shut down and the original investors will be fully reimbursed with the remaining available funds then the CEO will get a big fat bonus check and then the company will enter some kind of receivership that will dole out pathetically small payments over the next four years.

Lawsuits will be filed and then promptly thrown out because "lack of standing." (trying to sue a chines company is a huge waste of time)

You gave your money to a third party service provider in fucking China for a worthless IOU; What the fuck did you expect was going to happen?

They were uninsured and unregulated, operating outside the law. I mean what the fuck?  You money is gone.

While I don't totally doubt what you're saying, are you saying that Hong Kong and the British Virgin Islands are completely lawless? I imagine much harder to sue in those jurisdictions than in USA, but I imagine it's not impossible.

But I'd agree that Bitfinex was organized in these jurisdictions (rather than say, USA) for a reason.

Will yeah, its not lawless but beyond your reach. Outside the reach of your laws.
 In China money and political influence are corner stones. Anyone outside of China will be at a huge disadvantage. Once the government appoints someone to oversee the receivership its game over.

This is bad coz they cant even resolve this for themselves. Why you pay for your lost money? Are you sure this is legit? They're already bunkrupt or they will be bunkrupt i guess if they still operate their site.

Well, they aren't bankrupt. But depending how things are accounted for, they might be insolvent. Technically, if they give a 36% haircut to users, they might be solvent, with money to spare for operation costs for the foreseeable future. The problem is: is what they did legal? Not so sure, and that may be the downfall of Bitfinex.

I bet they've had offers to buy out 100%, or at least large majority of equity, in return for paying off the debt. But I think the owners are greedy and think they can run things this way. Bad choice.

it is good bitfinex helping users to recover money. but may be for the big customers to recover as they want retain their customers , not sure how they will recover so much huge amount , but it is good that bitfinex taken some steps on that

In my opinion bitfinex is dead. Hackers want more money- they do this new campaign.

Yeah, it will be very hard for them to recover and get back the trust of their users. And all this situation and their behaviour after the incident is not much in their favour.

A little bit of fun - Hitler gets a Haircut :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN4RdrN80ic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN4RdrN80ic)

how can we trust at this blog . i have not get any email from them . please don't try to scam . Or it may be that you are trying to increase traffic on your blog for adsense earning .

it seems that Bitfinex has many sheep as clients and they are happy even they lost 36%.  so, Bitfinex is not dead yet. they will run their scam exchange without any problem.

I think the OP simply share the article that he made on the blog, and have no intention to scam people. I think reasonable if you have a blog and would like your blog traffic crowded because it will make money for the blog owner.

And maybe if you're worried it's a scam, check it on bitfinex blog and many of their official announcement, about the hack. http://blog.bitfinex.com/ (http://blog.bitfinex.com/) thank you

help from users needs trust from them, a trust that was lost the day they got hacked. nobody will ever even think about going to their exchange and they will never even be able to sell it to anybody.

I expected an exchange like this to be better prepared for such situations.

Well the problem is not the asking for help but more like why other coins needs to save bitcoin ?
I mean I get it the only thing that was hacked was bitcoin and nothing happened to fiat and altcoin holders and their idea was that, instead of 100% of bitcoins gone, why not 20% of all gone?

That way rather then all bitcoin gone all people would keep 80% of it. That makes no sense, why the others pay for only bitcoins hack?

BFX up ! Over 0.5 !

Any reason for that?

is there any logical reason for someone to use Bitfnex after they fucked their clients? NOPE but still many are using them :)

What would you recommend ? Imagine your money were there. They took away (BFX counted in) around 18 % of your deposits - which is less if you held BTC from 400 to 600 (+50%).

Some people have some serious Stockholm Syndrome around Bitfinex. Others are just desperate gamblers who want a piece of the BFX market and access to margin. I don't think these people realize that Bitfinex's problems are not over...

Pretty much.  It could be argued that, in the short term at least, Bitfinex will be more conscious about their security and faster to hunt down any other vulnerabilities they might have.  But it's only a matter of time before complacency sets in again and some motivated attacker gets the better of their defences.  Definitely more a question of 'when' than 'if'.

so, their clients are sick people...it might be a real explanation... :)

I think the hack could be an inside job. The exchange lost 1/3 of its funds in a day. Does it not realise that it is big amount to withdraw?

Actually yes it seems they will have one problem and after another problem in future too. Why they haven't released how they have lost so much of bitcoin which they are responsible for saving in a really safe place. Lossing almost all bitcoin they have sound they have really serious issue with their management and level of security. Don't know when traders will leave that platform and try to find other alternative platforms.