Bitcoin Forum

Hello everyone, we can heard in this forum that bitcoin is not centralized and it is one of advantages, but what do you think about this article and the idea that bitcoin is not centralized? I am saying this based on below research which is done on ETH Switzerland and Germany.
https://www.ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/special-interest/infk/inst-infsec/system-security-group-dam/research/publications/pub2014/spmagazine_gervais.pdf

I think they say that because a few people seem to hold back changes.

but even if this is the case, the users can just choose to fork and create a new 'official' bitcoin.

because bitcoin is what the majority considers bitcoin to be, so no matter who is trying to control bitcoin (even satoshi himself), the majority ultimately decides.

People say bitcoin is centralized because a certain entity or group of people have control or more control than the majority of people in the community. The core devs basically have total control, as they are basically the only ones who can allow and add changes to the bitcoin protocol.

Someone in control? Is it the whales that do this? They think they owned it just because they have the higher number of bitcoin. That is ego in my side.

Start producing some code, make some ideas, make them into a BIP. You'll notice suddenly people will weigh in your opinion too.

You can try changing Bitcoin, but please do it via the BIP method. I've not heard that BIP process isn't proper. And it seems to be quite well working, so far. It can be updated too, of course. There are some (slightly trollish) groups who intend to bypass BIP process, because they think it's centralization. (Which it kind of is, but so is Bitcointalk, Reddit, GitHub, Intel, AMD, ISPs, governments and whatnot.) After all BIP system is not tied to any people or any platform. So it really is decentralized, even though you can't alone choose/change how it works.

Do you know who are the "Core devs"? They're developers who commit something to Core. Simple. Not a closed project, not a closed group. Open for all developers. You can have the "total control" you claim they have. But nobody listens to you (or in other words nobody considers you as a core dev) until you've proven you're a core dev.

I tis because, on the contrary what everyone thinks, the community has nothing to say anything about bitcoin's development. The core developers do everything they like without asking anybody. Majority may not like it but they can't do a damn about it. (other than not using it anymore)

Mining centralization is done by China already..

90% of BTC transactions are from China...

Who ever said Bitcoin is decentralized? Only the development process is decentralized.

bitcoin is not completly centralised.it has a group of dav who are responsible for some miner changes but they can not control the will network.satoshi himself appointed some users to maintain it a little because he knows it was an experiment

Because it is, have you tried mining on your own? to see if you can mine anything worth your time?
Nope, so it is kind of centralized imao.

The truth is that bitcoin becomes more centralized last three years because of asics and china miners, but compared to fiat currencies it's still very decentralized.

Contrary to popular beliefs, most Bitcoin transactions are likely not to originate from China. I would say that the general public would have a certain degree of difficulty using it especially since their government has restricted Bitcoin there and it isn't recognised as a currency by the central banks.

Mining is also not extremely centralised in China, at least not to the extent of 90%, possibly around 50% of the mining rigs are in China. It is rather inaccurate to estimate it based on the pools since miners can always connect their machines to Chinese pools due to their location and/or fees.

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Bitcoin software is decentralised since it does allow the community to decide what modifications they want to make for it to be considered Bitcoin. Anyone can change the code and people can choose to use and recognise it as the official Bitcoin.

Well I believe some people are confused with the term "decentralized". Having full control of your money is decentralized, because it cannot get banned nor depends on anyone to have your funds there. On the other hand, the mining process is centralized, because the more you have in equipment, the more you earn.

Bitcoin has no central control: no central repository of information, no central management, and, crucially, no central point of failure. And yet, most of the actual services and businesses built within the Bitcoin ecosystem are centralized. They are run by specific people, in specific locations, with specific computer systems, and they are susceptible to specific legal entanglements.

i believe bitcoin is decentralized only because no one can control complete bitcoin , it is distributed equally control to the users, everyone can transact easily , i belive still no one can control this bitcoin like owning complete bitcoins for themselves, it is always decentralized.

Well, there are different stages of centralization  ;D like - absolute monarchy or absolute democracy. =)) as for btc, of course it has some grade of centralization since there are groups of ppl who own more btc than others. But I wouldn't call it an absolutely centralized system.

Bitcoin is not centralized "per se"; however, it is centraly managed by a select few insiders who don't want to open the doors to the masses or upgrade Bitcoin's dilapidating infrastacture. Without increasing the maxium "Block Hieght" (Currently set to a 1Mb) Bitcoin will start to fail in the next 5 years.

This is the correct answer. The cartelization of bitcoin mining has made it more centralized as opposed to before when anyone can enter the network and mine with their CPU. The rising difficulty is making it more and more a competitive area for miners. You need specialized hardware if you want to join the mining. With that idea in mind who is to say if collusion between miners is not possible today? The only thing that is stopping them is their incentive will be reduced in value if they are caught colluding.

The number of nodes are also going down because it is getting more expensive to maintain one because of the blockchain's size. There should be a mechanism to incentivize people who want to maintain bitcoin nodes.

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I did not think it needs to be centralized and actully it is not in that sense here centralized means that it is developed upto we can use it more like a coin than a wapsite or a program we can live in it not play games with it

Mining is mostly done in china nowadays it gives miners a liitle bit control but not total control over bitcoin

Everything centralized becomes later decentralized repeating the cycle. Often centralization is solution for decentralized schemes and decentralization is often solution for centralisation, in this article borderline is not defined at all. None of them will ever work perfectly without each other. How about internet as one big network? Is the internet centralized or decentralized? It really depends on the view or specific definition/meassure, you could prove both. The same is for bitcoin. Everybody can explain why bitcoin is technically decentralized but few would discuss about social aspect of centralization of ressources and how decentralized bitcoin could (or already is) become centralized.

This (http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/y4256e/y4256e05.htm) is good link (Chapter 2. Decentralization and environmental issues)

I cant just imagine if one of the digital currency is not centralized with the growth of alternative coin. I believe just like other currency, centralization helps to maintain its value and also check it. Dollar is a centralized currency to all other currency, same is what bitcoin serves. bitcoin security status and cap value will help it for a longer period

because it is? anyone who says anyone who can offer a bip is a little bit delusional. check the reception people outside the inner circle get. their ideas are guaranteed to be picked apart.

you can say that people can go elsewhere and mine but most people are too lazy and there's always that 'you first' mentality. what keeps it going is the idea that it is decentralized and in theory it is. the reality? hmm...

It's not only the development. Mining is the thing that makes bitcoin work and it has now coalesced into into a small number of of very large operations with a high barrier to entry. Eventually there will be just one where the electricity is cheapest.

At the moment, the government influence in cryptocurrency still not so great. And it is too early to talk about centralization. Yes, a number of countries have developed laws that control this phenomenon . But this is still not the idea embodied in the life

Much ado about nothing. Miners, especially ASIC miners, are captive to the users. One simple hard fork to a new POW and all that equipment instantly becomes worthless. We want the most efficient miner in the most efficient locations. Paul Sztorc does a great job dispelling this miner centralization FUD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91TufmffIDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91TufmffIDg)

In 5 years? that you know. A love to Doubt it.

Wrong, bitcoin is not centralised but it's opposite of that. Bitcoin us decentralised which means no other 3rd party can alter the bitcoin network and government could also can't impose tax on bitcoin. All I know is bitcoin is automated and no one can change the system.

I though that bitcoin is not centralized, and considered this as one of its advantages. Problems associated with bitcoin centralization are not global, but nevertheless can be discussed at http://essay-writing.company/ (http://essay-writing.company/)

Yes Bitcoin is decentralized, anyone or the majority can decide whether they want to change protocol in Bitcoins Algorithm if necessary. But, it is still up to the Bitcoin Core Developers to execute those changes if they want it or not.


(c) https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-highly-centralized-network-says-harvard-researcher/

Ofcourse, to the technologically under developed area and the non computer literates and other iliterates how ever, it could be centralized. To the users, we understand the decentralisation is more about its appearance and efficiency reaching many 'developed'  countries.

That "main branch" is only for that individual project. They have no control over what people choose to run. Many users run Bitcoin projects that are unrelated to the Core project.

i think; because most programmers and investors gathered at this center with the volume. actually they can't bitcoin be nothing without other instruments. the value of bitcoin may fall, but he will always be guiding the chains holding and the system.

Yes, Bitcoin is opposite to centralized always because no has any authority on bitcoin, that's why it is called as people money. Governments are not accepting it because they cannot control the bitcoin and transactions.

Exactly my thought. It's decentralised. From what I always understood is that it's in a way free - like the internet.
But, just like the "free" internet, governments are trying their best to control it, to control users, and to impose some kind of tax for work they did not do.

Bitcoin have centralized mining indjustry.
Bitmain is making 70% of Asics and controls mining.
As he get a lot of power it refuse any changes that would harm his earnings .
But we see that now ETH is getting like 80% of $$$ from mining .
In long run people will muve to mosre advanced coin that is Etherum but miners don't give a fuck to that they want get more fish by draining lake.

look like ETH is winnin at BTC civil war :)
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactions-btc-eth-dash-ltc.html

BTC fall in transaction while ETH have sustain rise in transactions.
Free market works and spoken.

When they talk that BTC is centralized, they are talking about the "war" between miners and the rest (exchanges, users). Because all changes have to be accepted by a majority of nodes running the protocol, and the majority of these nodes today are miner-related, it looks like that a few people control BTC itself.
In the original concept, the nodes would be spread around the world. Sadly, this is not happening right now.

So, does that mean that ETH will soon overpower Bitcoin and may even surpass its price? Yeah it's true, Bitcoin has become centralized since the main control is in the miners. Huge companies that mine Bitcoin has the power whether to change the protocol of that Bitcoin or not. I believe they are also the Whales that controls the price of Bitcoin in the market. And, they are in connection with the Bitcoin core team which are the most powerful individuals. They hold the decision whether change in Algo or protocol.(but it needs the approval of the majority before making a step)

Current deadlock in Bitcoin scaling debate shows that Bitcoin isn't centralised. If either party would be in control of Bitcoin their favourite solution would be deployed long ago. On the other hand ETH is centralised. Weak opposition that was present left entirely to ETC.

Additionaly. Let's recollect why Bitcoin, blockchain were invented? Blockchain exists to prevent things like arbitrary money supply changing, arbitrary accounts freezing and seizures. ETH did exactly what blockchain is supposed to prevent people from doing. Of course the original chain survived (that's by design, original chain survives as long as it has at least few supporters), but it has much less support than the fucked chain, what questions the very sense of cryptocurrencies existence.

So ETH in essence is already a fiat currency, but it has appearance of a crypto. Nonetheless sooner or later it's gist will become more evident.

Let's ask ourselves what changes if ETH switches from blockchain to a PostgreSQL database hosted by Ethereum Foundation? Smartcontracts will be easier to develop, no need to run heavyweight fullnodes. Almost any hack can be easily reverted. Everything will become easier, better than it's now, except one thing: ETH would loose appearance of a crypto.