Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Press => Topic started by: Stephen Gornick on March 30, 2013, 10:30:05 PM



Title: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 30, 2013, 10:30:05 PM
Karl Denninger, writes on Bitcoin:

Quote
The dealer can (and might) take steps such as using "throw-away" wallets to try to unlink the transfer from his person, but that's dangerous.  In all jurisdictions "structuring" transactions to evade money laundering or reporting constraints is a separate and unique crime and usually is a felony.  Therefore, the very act of trying to split up transactions or use of "throw-away" wallets in and of itself is likely to be ruled a crime, leaving any party doing that exposed to separate and distinct criminal charges (along with whatever else they can bust you for.)
[...]
Since the records never go away your exposure, once you engage in a transaction that leads to liability, is permanent.\
[...]
Because Bitcoin is not state-linked and thus fluctuates in value there is an FX tax issue.  Let's say you "buy" Bitcoins (whether for cash or in exchange for a good or service you provide) at a time when they have a "value" of $5 each against the US dollar.  You spend them when they have a "value" of $20 each.  You have a capital gain of $15.  At the time of the sale you have a tax liability too, and I'm willing to bet you didn't keep track of it or report it.  That liability never goes away as it was wilfully  evaded and yet the ability to track the transaction never goes away either!
[...]
Those who are using Bitcoin as a means to try to foil currency controls or state prohibitions on certain transactions are asking for a criminal indictment not only for the original evasion act itself but also the possibility of a money-laundering indictment on top of it, and the proof necessary to hang you in a court of law is inherently present in the design of the currency system!
[...]
I do not now and never will support Bitcoin or its offshoots, nor will I accept and transact in it in commerce.  I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it.

 - http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219284


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 30, 2013, 10:33:52 PM
For many years I've made sure that every one of Karl's posts are in my daily list of required reading.

I'm not sure his point about using a throwaway EWallet being something that could be considered structuring.  We should never allow our natural right to financial privacy be interpreted as some violation of the law.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: kiba on March 30, 2013, 11:10:34 PM
 We should never allow our natural right to financial privacy be interpreted as some violation of the law.

I think it's safe to assume that the state don't give a flying **** about financial privacy.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Gabi on March 30, 2013, 11:16:25 PM
Tons of bullshit


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Jutarul on March 30, 2013, 11:18:15 PM
reading articles like those make me sad, because the authors are either naive or are willingly giving away their civil sovereignty to an elite of people calling themselves leaders for the greater good.

Bitcoin is a financial tool to exacerbate civil disobedience, which is heavily needed in todays crisis - which, by the way, is engineered from the top down.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: apetersson on March 30, 2013, 11:47:34 PM
his arguments are not totally outlandish. they are a bit far-reaching, since they imply governments are putting in substantial effort in auditing the blockchain. this will eventually happen, but not today.
His argument against "structuring" relies on a very literal application of fiat money laws to bitcoin. For technical reasons most transactions appear structured already, and today this is not illegal.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: justusranvier on March 30, 2013, 11:59:50 PM
I used to be a Gold donator on Tickerforum with a high post count and might have even considered Karl a friend at one point.

This position is just one manifestation of a deep-seated authoritarianism that lies below his libertarian facade. It's really a shame because he's brilliant when it comes to fiscal and macroeconomic analysis, but a few years ago when the bulk of the intellectual energy in libertarian circles began to recognize the futility and contradiction of political activism and started to move in the direction of voluntarism he couldn't make the transaction, perhaps because of his religiosity. Because of his increasingly bizarre and contradictory positions on issues like this a lot of talented thinkers left his board in the last few years. I stuck it out over there a lot longer than I should have.

He can't accept Bitcoin because he's fully capable of recognizing its potential and he'll do everything he can to oppose the idea of a stateless society. Expect more venom from him as Bitcoin becomes increasingly successful.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Stephen Gornick on March 31, 2013, 12:14:44 AM
For many years I've made sure that every one of Karl's posts are in my daily list of required reading.

And the previous post of Karl's is a video by former Presidential candidate Bill Still  (Libertarian Party) who weighs in on Bitcoin:

 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgnu5B1SJM

Offensive anti-Bitcoiner Bill Still just lost a fan
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=161325



Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: solex on March 31, 2013, 12:33:24 AM
I too have read a good proportion of Karl's posts for years.  He is normally expert and right about most things.

There is a lesson in humility here: being right most of the time is not the same as all of the time. Karl is evaluating Bitcoin incorrectly. He has a strong legal background and this is confusing his mind so he is not considering how Bitcoin can be a force for making smaller, efficient governments.
He is not even bothering to learn how 3rd-party systems can work with the blockchain. He is not properly considering Bitcoin's triple benefit as a currency and payment system with user anonymity.

He has written a long article, which is probably longer than what he has read on it.

Eventually he will settle down and realize that Bitcoin is the answer to many of the perversions of fiat that he has railed about for years.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: cypherdoc on March 31, 2013, 12:47:40 AM
he's always been against gold too and missed the entire runup from 2000-2011 so i'm not surprised he'll miss this one as well.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: cypherdoc on March 31, 2013, 12:58:03 AM
man is he rambling.  i'll have to break this one up into pieces...

the first half of the article deals with the permanency of the blockchain as a public record.  first of all, he comes from the position that most of the tx's will be for illegal purposes, which quite naturally is ridiculous.  then he underestimates the anonymity of the system if one takes proper precautions and assumes that eventually illegal users will "get tagged".  unlikely given the ways to obfuscate tx's if one wants to.

then he argues about spending BTC after appreciation results in capital gain avoidance.  FinCen just ruled that users can spend BTC for goods and services so that is no problem either.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: cypherdoc on March 31, 2013, 01:25:59 AM
then he argues that the confirmation time is a negative.  well, that's where companies like BitPay come in.  as their clientele rises, i have not heard any complaints of fraud rising.  they certainly must be mitigating it in some way.

he then assumes that difficulty ONLY rises in perpetuity.  this will only be so if Bitcoin succeeds in recruiting new users and thus more miners.  difficulty certainly can DROP as we saw in summer 2011.  he totally disregards the fact that early adopters, who mined when difficulty was much less, took a risk with their resources and thus Bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme as he alleges.

he does make a good point about the #BTC decreasing with time as ppl lose their keys.  however, i think with time and experience this can be limited. 


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Rothgar on March 31, 2013, 01:51:10 AM
Karl Denninger, writes on Bitcoin:

Quote
I do not now and never will support Bitcoin or its offshoots, nor will I accept and transact in it in commerce.  I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it.

I do not now and never will drive a car, nor will I accept a ride from someone driving a car.  I prefer instead to effort toward equine recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on horse trainers in the hope of solving the underlying problems of horse travel rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it. 


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Wekkel on March 31, 2013, 06:26:36 AM
He can't accept Bitcoin because he's fully capable of recognizing its potential and he'll do everything he can to oppose the idea of a stateless society. Expect more venom from him as Bitcoin becomes increasingly successful.

He and Bill Still seem to be too locked up in their ideologies to just let go and see what happens with Bitcoin. Even if it fails, there will be another virtual currency. Something that especially Denninger should be able to spot.

It's kind of ironic that he seems to prefer holding on to the thought that politicians suddenly start to act reasonably and in the interest of the people instead of applauding free market market initiatives, regardless whether he likes it or not.

The quote already mentioned sums it up fine:
"For these reasons I do not now and never will support Bitcoin or its offshoots, nor will I accept and transact in it in commerce.  I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it.".

Government with a self proclaimed privilege ....

But please have a look at Denninger's blog yourselves. He makes good points on all kinds of topics so don't run away just yet. Critical thinking is a depreciating asset nowadays so you just might want to hold on to what we still got.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: lettucebee on March 31, 2013, 12:40:09 PM
What is bothering me about Denninger's piece is its lack of morality.  He is not talking about the very noble motives behind bitcoin, a response by humanity to financial tyranny of a ruling elite that has oppressed humanity forever.  Rather, he seems to be saying don't do that boys and girls because you're going to get into trouble. 

He seems like a person who has made some money and has built a platform to speak out and now he is defending the establishment that he has worked within.  But does he point out that the establishment system of FBI and secret service who will put us in cages is WRONG?

Is this guy what passes for leadership among mainstream libertarians nowadays?  He does not seem like a brave and impudent man; rather he seems meek and cowardly. 

Denninger as Tory.




Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Zomdifros on March 31, 2013, 01:06:27 PM
Karl Denninger, writes on Bitcoin:

Quote
I do not now and never will support Bitcoin or its offshoots, nor will I accept and transact in it in commerce.  I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it.

I do not now and never will drive a car, nor will I accept a ride from someone driving a car.  I prefer instead to effort toward equine recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on horse trainers in the hope of solving the underlying problems of horse travel rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it. 

Haha +1


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Roger_Murdock on March 31, 2013, 01:08:53 PM
Quote
I do not now and never will support Bitcoin or its offshoots, nor will I accept and transact in it in commerce.  I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it.

Wow, that is just amazingly backwards. The people "sniveling in the corner" are the ones asking their political masters for better treatment year after year (and never getting it). In contrast, bitcoiners are not complaining about a lack of financial freedom, they are simply taking their freedom back.





Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: lettucebee on March 31, 2013, 01:13:30 PM
Another thing about this so-called Ponzi aspect of bitcoin where early adopters profit more than later adopters, it just seems that they are being rewarded for their foresight.  If you are slow to recognize the paradigm shift, why is it wrong that you pay a price?


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: justusranvier on March 31, 2013, 02:05:05 PM
Is this guy what passes for leadership among mainstream libertarians nowadays?
He is not. He gained a fairly significant following for his reporting on the ongoing train economic train wreck that started in 2008, and it was his blog that sparked the original Tea Party movement (back when it was about opposition to bailouts) but other than that his forays into political activism have been a complete flop. He's tried twice to form new political parties, and both of them achieved about a dozen supporters.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: whatisthename on March 31, 2013, 05:04:31 PM
I think he's a very smart guy.

I've exchanged emails with him a few times.

I don't think he has a grasp on Bitcoin though.

For example, say I have 1 Jellybean. I say to Bob: "Bob, this Jellybean is worth the price of your house. I would like to buy it."
Bob says "Okay, I think it sounds like a fair trade."

Then the house is mine. It's a fair, legal, trade.

It's the same thing with Bitcoin.

Karl is just thinking too hard. A good guy, but thinking too hard.

If I convert a Bitcoin to USD and made profit, then yes....I will need to report for tax purposes.

Simple as that.



Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Severian on March 31, 2013, 05:10:04 PM
This position is just one manifestation of a deep-seated authoritarianism that lies below his libertarian facade.

I've noticed that a good number of "libertarians" have fallen into the State's camp since the rise of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is obviously the ultimate short political quiz.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: cypherdoc on March 31, 2013, 07:07:13 PM
Let us all not forget that the openness of the blockchain ledger is a feature, not a bug, as denninger asserts.

With proper precautions anonymity can be preserved.

Contrast this with our Federal Reserve which continues to resist all Ron Pauls attempts to conduct a Fed audit.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: justusranvier on March 31, 2013, 07:11:57 PM
Ultimately I shouldn't be surprised that he comes out with irrational positions like this. He's a member of a cult that seriously believes they can telepathically communicate with a 2000 year old zombie.

Once you put crazy in the center of your world view all bets are off when it comes to the ability to accurately perceive reality.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: cypherdoc on March 31, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
I used to read his blog a lot. But recently Im starting to suspect that he is an authoritarian masquerading as a libertarian.

He used his blog to constantly attack Ron Paul in the GOP primaries, and then during the election he constantly attacked the libertarian candidate Gary Johnson. Then after the election Denninger suddenly resigned from the libertarian party.

Its hard to believe someone can put out that much material on a daily blog without being paid by someone. IMO Denninger is a paid propagandist for the establishment.

i've read him for years as well and was even a member of his trading forum for a while.

i highly doubt he is a paid propagandist.  but he does make a significant income from ads.  plus you have a great point about him becoming more authoritarian.  because he is so negative about most things i only cruise by there every once in a long while now.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: DublinBrian on March 31, 2013, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: Karl Denninger
to be able to spend that coin I must make the fact that I hold it and you transferred it to me known to everyone as well.
False! The bitcoin ledger is a record of keys not of a record of people.

If it were as easy to identify bitcoin users, as Denninger claims, then the authorities would have have busted up Silk Road, two years ago.

Denninger has squandered a lot of his credibility today.



Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: alxs on March 31, 2013, 08:42:25 PM
Have read and followed Karl for years as most of his analysis is dead on.  However, I never understand how anyone claiming to be a libertarian can be against bitcoin.  For years Karl has written about ingrained corruption in government and finance and nothing gets better, only worse and worse.

This is what Karl fundamentally raves about http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/why-is-the-world-economy-doomed-the-global-financial-pyramid-scheme-by-the-numbers (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/why-is-the-world-economy-doomed-the-global-financial-pyramid-scheme-by-the-numbers)

And yet when something comes along that could upend the state and finance as we know it, this is his response:

"I prefer instead to effort toward political recognition of the duties that come with the privilege that is bestowed on a sovereign currency issuer in the hope of solving the underlying problem rather than sniveling in the corner trying to evade it."

Disappointing is the mildest word I can use.

 


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: DublinBrian on March 31, 2013, 09:28:30 PM
Quote from: Karl Denninger
The design is such that when the system was initialized it was reasonably easy to compute a new solution, and thus "mine" a coin.  As each coin is "mined" the next solution becomes more difficult.  The scale of difficulty was set up in such a fashion that it is computationally infeasable using known technology and that expected to be able to be developed in the foreseeable future to reach the maximum number of coins that can be in circulation.  Since each cryptographic solution is finite and singular, and each one gets progressively harder to discern,
This is false. The difficulty of solving a block does not always go up. Sometimes it goes down.

Quote from: Karl Denninger
those who first initiated Bitcoin were rewarded with a large number of easily-mined coins for a very cheap "investment" while the computational difficulty of "extracting" each additional one goes up.
Increasing difficulty does not profit early miners at the expense of later miners. Sure bitcoin mining was easier for early adopters, but the value of the mined coins was less. In fact, the first 4 million bitcoins were worth zero when mined.

Its bizarre that Denninger is using a left-wing "envy" based argument against bitcoin, when most of his blog posts are about profiting by buying stocks cheap and selling them on to someone else at a higher price.



Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: DublinBrian on March 31, 2013, 09:43:04 PM
Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.



Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: solex on March 31, 2013, 09:55:45 PM
Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.



Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: cypherdoc on March 31, 2013, 09:57:59 PM
Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.



Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.


why $1000?  he didn't get gold when it hit there.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: solex on March 31, 2013, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: Karl Denninger
At its core the problem is that someone has to control the quantity of issued currency and credit in the economy via some means; since both currency and credit are fungible you must control both or you may as well control neither.
Thats proof that Denninger doesnt understand bitcoin.

In a bitcoin monetary system, money and credit are not fungible. Bitcoins cannot be typed into someones account. Bitcoins are easily distinguishable from credit.

A merchant can refuse to accept payment in MtGox credits and demand actual bitcoins instead.

Just like on the gold standard, banknotes were distinguishable from gold. A merchant could refuse to accept payment in banknotes, and demand actual gold or silver.



Absolutely.
Karl has fired from the hip without thinking more deeply.
When the Bitcoin fx rate hits $1,000 then he will realize the shot went into his own foot.


why $1000?  he didn't get gold when it hit there.

Because it can be rationalized that gold has done nothing for 30 years in inflation adjusted terms:

http://goldsilverworlds.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gold_inflation_adjusted_november_2012.png

This puzzled me for a long time, despite fiat being abused to death, gold has simply been clawing back to a prior peak.
When I learned about Bitcoin the muddy waters cleared.  In a modern economy remote transactions account for 99% by value. So electronic currency is essential and gold has severe limitations as currency. I choose $1000 because, by then, people with Karl's view will be trampled in the stampede to embrace a "new normal".


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: whatisthename on March 31, 2013, 11:38:56 PM
He's also lost a lot of credibility lately when he changes his warning to "Tickercon 1". Maybe he sincerely believed everything was going to fall apart a few weeks ago...but when he does it a couple (or few) times then he just loses credibility.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: iCEBREAKER on March 31, 2013, 11:58:22 PM
Ignore Douchinger, he's a fat pus-filled zit of misinformation.

He was wrong about gold and silver.  Now he's wrong about Bitcoin.

When he's staving in a gutter, we can all laugh at him.

Until that day, find more productive topics of interest. 



Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: Wekkel on April 01, 2013, 05:10:49 AM
When he's staving in a gutter, we can all laugh at him.

Being wrong is not a Shame. Not learning from it is. That goes for readers as well. I don't consider laughing the right mentality here.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: dafridge on April 10, 2013, 09:22:45 AM
In Chicago back in the early 90's Karl was known as "yamhead".

He was a huge troll and nobody liked him.

I am shocked to find out he is considered one of the "tea party founders".

I read a little of his site and it does come off very authoritarian.

People in comments saying "please don't ban me for this" and the URL to bitcointalk being XXX'd out / banned.

I guess years of being made fun of / called yamhead on the internet turns you into a jerk!


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: iCEBREAKER on April 10, 2013, 06:01:31 PM
"Yamhead" bwahahah.  That's gold Jerry.  Gold!

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

That's 100% pure misinformation AFAIK.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: dafridge on April 10, 2013, 11:32:31 PM
Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

that was a quote from his wikipedia page


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: justusranvier on April 10, 2013, 11:41:11 PM
"Yamhead" bwahahah.  That's gold Jerry.  Gold!

Why is Yamhead Douchinger considered a Tea Party founder?

That's 100% pure misinformation AFAIK.
No, actually it's quite true. He published a blog post back in January of 2009 which was the direct inspiration for Rick Santelli's on-air rant, which kicked off the entire movement (as a protest against the bailouts, before the term was subverted by the Republican Party for their own purposes).

I was there when it happened.


Title: Re: 2013-03-30 Market-Ticker (Karl Deninger) - Bitcon: Don't
Post by: iCEBREAKER on April 11, 2013, 02:53:33 AM
Santelli's great, but he and Yamhead didn't start the Tea Party.  You were there when it accelerated, not originated.

The Tea Parties started in 2007.  I was there when it happened.   8)

2009 was when the specter of ObamaCare motivated the sheeple to stamped into the movement we created.

Palin jumped aboard and the Teahadist movement was born.  But they're an offshoot, not the main branch, much less the roots.

Proof:

Ron Paul Revolution: The Austin Tea Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyB1JLL6H0&list=PL8CA0A66D8CAB0467

The Tea Party Started In 2007 And Ron Paul Is The Godfather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQXAf7Im8Bg

/before it was cool hipster