Bitcoin Forum

Hello All,

If you are familiar with the world of international currencies you should be familiar with the destructive power of the "Central Banking" systems. All major countries have a central bank running the show. Meant to be a lender of "last resort" to the banks that fall under it, supposedly setting interests rates for the benefit of all. That is not what happens. The Central banking cartels will lead to the destruction of all economies. This is no accident the collapse is by design and inevitable.. Just look at some of the European currencies that have just been decimated and will be decimated. In the USA the Federal Reserve is just this type of monster. No more federal than federal express it loans all the money it prints at interest to the federal government. The massive amount of debt that the USA currently owes is in the quadrillions. For the last century the USD has had the status of being the world reserve currency. This means other countries invest in US treasuries. The whole fiat currency apple cart is about to collapse and end in hyperinflation. This is not speculation but a fact. The USD is going to be pulled as the world reserve currency very shortly. When this happens the end collapse of the US economy will start. Your lives will change forever. All those radical changes the Bush/Obama regime has pushed through in the past few years is not meant to protect us from men in caves but to grant the Federal government more power over the people when this collapse comes.

With the destruction of the USD and the rest of the worlds fiat currencies, how long do you think they will allow this Bitcoin thing to continue? I have no idea! It might come out as the savior or be the justification to imprison more of us. When there are no viable currencies to convert bitcoins into..then what?

These are truly revolutionary times we live in, don't believe what you see in the mainstream media . It is all owned by a handful of very powerful men working for the system that is collapsing the economy.

You may not believe anything I just wrote and choose to believe what you see on CNN, but just consider what if? What if the fiat currencies of the world are designed to fail and failure is imminent. How does this impact the bitcoin economy? Does it empower and make this great cause an even better cause? Or does it make all this mining and trading fruitless?

What do you think? let us know.

Andrew

Global currency here we come.  It will probably start with each continent having it's own currency.  Not sure what this means for bitcoins but I am assuming they are here to stay for a while. 

theory goes that 'they' are deliberately devaluing sovereign currencies to crash them and replace them with the amero and then electronic chips

What do i think? I think you just bought some bitcoin, thats what i think.

Screw electronic chips. :-)


Bitcoin opens up real Micropayments. It's the first app I've seen that really enables this easily. Internet tips (monetary) is a killer app!


I hope TPTB are scared. :-)


lw

Fiat currencies are a means to do short term business. They are not useful as a long term value store.

If you have some wealth, it should be put in something which is independent of a currency, like real estate, stock etc. Of course this has it's own risks, but there nothing like 100% security.

OTOH: Fiat currencies are much more stable in the short term as any other means of parking value because they are stabilized against the market from the central banks. Unregulated systems like Bitcoin have much higher price fluctuations which makes them less predictable and thus much harder to to business with.

buy physical silver, thats what im going to do with all my mined btc ;)

I don't think we're quite at "global collapse" just yet.  Just don't jump from any bridges yet, ok?

Near the beginning it was undemanding for anyone to discover new blocks using standard CPUs. As more and more people started mining, the difficulty of finding new blocks has greatly increased to the point where the average time for a CPU to find a single block can be many years. The only cost- or time-effective method of mining is using a high-end graphics card with special software, this clearly indicates that bitcoins are booming.

I wonder why it would be in any sensible rich man's interest to make the economy collapse. There would be no more people paying off their debts to them, thus their power would vanish.

Thus, I don't think it is in the interest of large banks to make the economy collapse. They are probably just trying out how far they can go before it does.

Yours
David

Not realy issues with central banking, still there reality how someone can lend money from one and then lend it for near certain profit to goverment seems just so twisted. It's like they are allowed second way to make free money, first being fractional reseve banking. And once they failed, they didn't carry the risks.

Crash is in the future or atleast default. It's not possible for this to go on forever.

So be ready, take massive loans, buy BTC or gold ;D

Of course there will be a collapse, why do you think so many invest in bitcoins? While this game ends, Bitcoin is the beginning of the new game.

As I said before, people are sick of the USD, EUR, IMF, banks, etc.  You may not feel this because you live in a western country, but you are in the minority.  Bitcoin is the only hope that the old and new powers have.

But wouldn't countries in a global Bitcoin economy end up like Greece? The countries that have adopted the Euro have no other way to cut cost than cut people's wages and pensions. This cripples their internal market, interest on the Greek debt rises, they have to take up more loans and down it goes. You see the same problem in the US in states like California and Florida because they're all using the dollar and can't do anything other than cut public expenses. If they could adjust the value of their currency, they could export more goods without cutting wages. If everyone uses Bitcoins, is there a way to regulate exports and imports that won't hurt regular people's wallets?

Fair enough, but why is it the only hope that the old and new powers have? This is sorta just asserted and not demonstrated.

Thank you, Andrew, for posting about these important topics.
I'm not sure the Bitcoin forum is the best place to find an audience, but maybe.
After all, we are concerned with a new form of money here.

Your comment about "collapse by design" is confirmed by many economic analysts whom I follow.
Also confirmed by history.
There may be a better explanation for what is happening than "collapse by design", but I have yet to find it.



Not quite a century.
Only since July, 1944, when that agreement was made at the Bretton Woods Conference.
Still, it has been enough time to do plenty of damage.



You have very neatly summed up the essential questions.
I, too, have been searching everywhere for some answers.
The only answer I've come up with is that nobody has any answers.

So, at this stage, Bitcoin seems one possible way to diversify financial risk in the face of approaching chaos.
Still, Bitcoin does carry some risk, but less than holding US$ or Euro.

The entire financial rule set of the world is changing before our eyes.
What to do?
I'm placing some of my bets on Bitcoin.

I firmly believe if bitoin is used the right way it can actually save the world wide economies...
As well as let the little people who are not able to make it well in the regular money paying world, give us a chance to make it.. That is why I am interested in trying this out. I need my chance to make it.. But, it seems that bitcoin will be more popular with micronations, internet clubs, and the biggest source for earnings and sales would be in downloadable or email able codes or items.. or smaller priced physical items.. I hope to see positive things come out of bitcoin more than negative.. but I always tend to hope enthusiastically for the positive and better things... But a people who do bitcoins may want to possibly think about doing exchanges not just with regular currencies but local currencies and token like companies.. That maybe a better route than turning it into a physical cash .. is turn it into gift certificates, tokens, or coupons.. To allow people to save their physical cash.. just a thought..

- Casey

I have recently got through 'the creature from jekyll island', 'money masters', 'money as debt', and even Zeitgeist, all of which try to explain our current monetary system, I couldnt believe how efficient this 'system' is at empowering those in control of the money. How have we accepted such a system for so long?
I couldnt really see any solution to the problem, and was somewhat resigned to it... needless to say I was very excited when I started reading about Bitcoins, I believe they offer the chance of a solution, or at the very least show that some intelligent people are in the pursuit of this solution.
Bitcoins will be big... I hope

I think it would actually force country to ballance their books.

Right now politician given people unrealistic expectation.... the government will fix everything. They then spend away and use inflation as a hidden tax to pay for it.

OP you are right about 95% of things you wrote. The only problem all you doom sayers have is your first title word "IMMINENT" I'm 100% sure the system we live in will in the end collapse, but it will take many MANY years for that to happen. This won't happen in the next 50 to 150 years. It somewhat depends on when we will run out of oil and when food will be scarce for all the 15bill people, living on this planet we call Earth by the year 2055, or when ever  the estimates are for that to happen. UNTIL THEN this same central banks will keep printing and feeding us same bullshit wrapped in a different way.

What you don't realize is that 90% of planet population is running a rat race. They don't really have time or they don't bother with many things that seem so crystal clear to you people like yourself, so you will be in minority for the rest of your life, while the 90% rat race monkeys will still go to work and pay their bills and watch some news in the evening and gossip about what they heard at their gym club.

I know you and many others won't agree what I have wrote BUT we can set a date and meet every 5 or so years for a week in some exotic resort and have a party UNTIL THIS IMMINENT THING WILL OCCUR.

As the old saying goes... "not with a bang but a whimper".

PS. Doom-mongering does lead those who associate themselves with this BTC community to accusations of being full of tin foil hat wearing anarcho-libertarian nutters.

PSS. I agree with the general theory that there's a huge sovereign debt crisis heading west.

Tin Foil hats are cool :P~ .. But I think BTC folks would prefer the gold plates ones  :P :)

Eh, I think to truly resolve any issues like these you kinda have to look at how humans behave in general. Solve the problem at the source, instead of just fixing the bugs cropping up in the higher level processes, so to speak.

And that, is a super massive pain. So I'm gonna go watch game of thrones instead.

-Wizard-Ninja-

Anyone remember the revolutions in 1848? What was different then? There was no internet, and governments intervened to squash revolutions in other countries.
What would happen if something similar where to happen in this century, lets say the same people or Zeitgeist/VP. Now there is an internet to help spread the revolution and governments don't intervene on the side of their peers anymore.  In the ensuing chaos, Pecunix and similar services will be looted, at least this how it used to happen during revolutions. Since there is no fork, all that will remain is Bitcoin. The new elite won't bother to fork, nor will they mind guys like knightmb having so much.

why would the managers of a currency design it to fail?  if it were me i'd rather keep it going and rake in a bit of profit on it in the meantime. 

I'll give you a quick example.

Benny banker wants to make enough money so that his children, and his children's children never have to work. There aren't many capital goods available, and they are not profitable. Benny banker then makes a local currency called Benny Bucks. At first it is backed by gold and silver, but over time that backing wanes and is eventually removed completely. At this point nothing is stopping Benny from printing as many Benny Bucks as he wants, so he does. Benny then prints up money and gives it out as fast as he can in the form of loans. He prints and he prints and he prints as everyone holding a Benny Buck loses buying power.

 Sooner or later people start to notice the system is rigged. By that point Benny already got everyone to sign over all of their capital goods to him for loans of Benny Bucks. He then collects all of the real capital, while driving the value of the Benny Buck to the center of the earth. As this happens over a period of years more and more people are forced to get loans from Benny in order to survive. When people finally refuse to use Benny Bucks because he destroyed them, he now sits on all of his newly collected capitol, while everyone else has worthless scraps of paper.

There is not a single case in history where a fiat currency didn't end in horrible failure. Also by creating this fictitious money, people were persuaded to go to work and create real capital when they would otherwise have not have incentive to do so. The owners of the currency then scoop it all up, and start over with another fiat currency to begin the cycle all over again.

Yeah, I just love these panic spreading, doomsday yelling people around the net! Wonder if they also believe that the world will end in 2012 (like it already did many times this decade)...

In fact if we look at history, the only thing that usually happens after a collapse / major problem / war, etc., is an overall long-term boost in technology and production. You got to understand that people are problem solvers and work best only if a problem is present, otherwise they mostly hang on to what they already have with little motivation to go forward.

The difference between 2012 apocalypse, and economic collapse is that it has happened over and over an over again since the beginning of society. Associating it with crazy theories doesn't change history. Also you conveniently left out all of the famine and suffering that came before the innovation....

Why are so many people worried about hyper-inflation?  It seems obvious that deflation, like what happened during the Great Depression, is the biggest concern right now.  Furthermore, inflation hurts creditors (banks).  With inflation, it's easier to pay loans back, and if inflation is higher than interest rates, then banks take a loss.  With deflation, the money they lent out, and the money they have, is worth even more in the future.  So, to sum it up, inflation hurts creditors and helps debtors, and deflation helps creditors and hurts debtors.  If one is to assume that the banks have absolute control over money, you'd have to assume they'd want deflation.

Yes, but if a person would start to save money heavily, perhaps even invest a portion in stocks or bonds and real estate, deflation would actually greatly benefit this persion as well as the banks. And the best part, saving is not even that hard, just eliminate all previous debts, don't get any more new loans, and deduct 20% or more from your monthly wage/allowance (in the beginning, use a savings account / CD).