Bitcoin Forum

What if the Internal Revenue service of the US decided to tax bitcoin transactions, what would be the possible effects on its price and the bitcoin community. Will the other governments follow?

They can decide all they want, taxing Bitcoin transactions isn't going to bag them much loot. Bitcoin users are into self-defense, that's the whole point of Bitcoin to begin with. Defending against the IRS (presumably using the NSA) snooping on Bitcoin transactions is trivial, in so many ways.

Imposing tax on bitcoin is almost impossible because it's something like private asset and government have nothing to do with it. We had mined and created bitcoin for us and here government doesn't have any role so why should we pay taxes.

I think if bitcoin will be taxed by the government, then there'll gonna be changes in the pace of its price movement. People who uses bitcoin will be added another encumbrance for extra fees will be imposed to bitcoin transactions. For me this is not a good idea for bitcoin. The government should not interfere bitcoin. It is designed to make people free from any intervention especially the government taxation.

I really hope that all governments will try to impose taxes on Bitcoin. This will force the developers to double down on decentralized trading exchanges making the community stay away from Coinbase and the others that are forcing KYC/AML on us. I can see a future for Tether USD or a fiat for crypto implementation to trade at decentralized exchanges.

they can not and will not tx bitcoin "transactions" because first of all it requires a lot of work and spending lots of time and resources on blockchain analysis and then you can't even come up with decent results.

instead they will use services you use to take taxes from you, like the wallet you use (coinbase) or exchanges you use to buy (regular ones or localbitcoins)...

check https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tax_compliance

It is clearly mentioned there that in US, IRS treat bitcoin as assets so therefore it is taxable. However it is true that they can't impose tax on all bitcoin related transactions but they can add tax when you exchange bitcoin to fiat and vice versa.

There can be changes but mostly we are the ones who will suffer with it especially if you are using an exchange site that is base in US. But that is only applicable to their country and if you are not residing there and you live offshore then you should have any problem to it. But I guess this will make some changes for the price and I'm not sure if it will be good or bad.

It'll be pretty difficult to prove who owns what address and where the Bitcoin is being exchanged for cash, if at all, and they would have to rely on data from exchanges based within the United States for any of that to work. It is incredibly taxing and challenging to find exact owners and, similarly, people who are even taxable. For the most part it'll cost more to find the person.

Any income in theory must be reported and taxed at the appropriate rate, however taxing transactions does not seem possible because there is not value in transactions you could be moving bitcoin form one of your addresses to another in that case a transaction in the blockchain happened but the bitcoin did not exchange hands that is just like moving your money form one pocket to the other.

Fighting with bitcoin network directly and potential attempts of taxation are so stupid that I doubt anyone would try this.
I said it many times, bitcoin transactions are safe - there won't be external taxation. There could be tax imposed on bitcoin satellite services, it is much easier that way.
Exchanges, bitcoin payment processors, shops, services - every kind of business dealing with BTC could be targeted and taxed in the future.

This whole thread is filled with nonsense and bad advice.

The U.S. government ALREADY taxes bitcoin transactions. You are required by law to report every transaction and to pay capital gains taxes on the difference between the price you paid for the bitcoins and the price you spent them at. Choosing not to do so is illegal.

Many people may choose to ignore this law, and it would be difficult in most cases for the IRS to figure out whether you gained anything from bitcoins. That doesn't mean the transactions aren't subject to reporting and taxes.  It just means you are a criminal that hasn't yet been caught.

Every jurisdiction is different, and you should contact a tax preparer, accountant, or attorney that is familiar with your own jurisdiction to learn exactly what your personal reporting and tax requirements are.

Bitcoin is a commodity in the US, if they want to tax every transaction, they will have to re-define Bitcoin as a currency. You have to report Capital Gains and extra income on your tax return, so you are already paying taxes or should I say, should be paying taxes on Bitcoin.

If you not doing that, you might end up with huge penalties and also some jail time for tax evasion.

Correct.


Transactions with bitcoins are considered "barter".  Tax on barter transactions must be paid just like if the transaction was not barter.  If you buy a car in the U.S. with bitcoin, You're still obligated to pay the sales tax on the purchase.


Correct.  So if you buy 20 bitcoins for $500 each and you then spend those 20 bitcoins to buy a $20000 car, you'll need to pay sales tax on the purchase of the car and capital gains tax on $10000 in gains.

I think if the US government are going to tax Bitcoin they will first try regulating all the Bitcoin exchanges in the USA and they will most probably gather all the needed personal and financial information from them. So every time a customer buys or sells Bitcoin the IRS will know how much to tax and for what exactly.

If the US government taxed bitcoin transaction, it will affected the price and bitcoin usage, most of the user like to used bitcoin because they don't need document to send huge amount of money and don't need to pay the tax, if government try to regulate then the number of transaction will get lower, and for sure other government will follow this, they like to taxed all the things and in the future the government will try everything so bitcoin will be taxed

US goverment will not going to do this thing because they don't know where the real bitcoin and where the bitcoins comming from and if they gonna do this they are going to build or create own blockchain so it will going there our transaction and it will not affects the price of bitcoin for sure.

How they can tax transactions, is that possible? Maybe they can try to tax sender or recipients, I don't know. This is too confusing topic I believe.
Anyway this will effect the price, if some government decide to tax bitcoins in anyway they will need to male appropriate laws and services for that, maybe that will give more security to us user's. For me that is not necessary thing, I can protect myself, but majority in this world love government regulations and they believe in system, this can speed up adoption in the world.

I cant think of any way on imposing tax on bitcoin hence they cant go deep into the blockchain and get taxes on each transactions.Thats why its an impossible thing for government to control or breach it but the thing comes to my mind is the possibilities that they could impose tax from merchants who uses bitcoin on payments and any other businesses related to it.

To me they cannot impose tax on bitcoin, as bitcoin is a decentralize currency and not a single country can claim bitcoin as their own currency, but I think if they want they can impose on these people who are doing transaction in their USA, but worldwide they have no right  to impose tax on bitcoin.

Taxing it would be bad but they might do it. The IRS has already started to contact Coinbase about some of their members so who knows.

Good luck with finding out who owns what and how much profit was made from each bitcoin, it is so impossible it will never happen, they will ban it 1st and that aint going to happen either.  ;D

For those that think they cannot tax BTC it is entirely possible for them to do so.

All it would take is for the US Gov to say 'We are legalizing BTC but only if you use our wallets'. Wallets that contain a tax that goes to them exactly how current taxes goes to miners.

Soo why would use their wallets if we do have already several wallets providers, and i doubt they can force any of them to put those fees, we do like freedom and if we find any provider acting together with any country we will switch almost instant, bitcoin its decentralized and makes no sense to use anything that has someone under the control.

They already do charge tax. You are advised to pay VAT, they probably won't track it, but it may be worth doing so you don't get caught and given a large fine.
Currently there is little ways of tracking the owners of bitcoin (limited to bitcoin adresses and what is given by the owner of that address).
So it does already charge tax and many other countries do as well.

Governments might try to follow suit, but chances are it is going to be incredibly difficult to impose and collect the taxes from people who simply don't want to pay them. The closest they can get will be taxing exchanges.

The value will more than likely go down, since people will try to get out of being taxed. Shouldn't be too damaging, however ti will affect local markets considerably.

People have the advantage to maintain a form of total silence when it comes to what they are gaining in Bitcoin, what they are holding in Bitcoin, and whatever else they do with their coins. It's easy to not declare anything to the tax agency as the far majority of the people here are doing already. They totally depend on your honesty when it comes to declaring your holdings and profits, and all other things related. If you don't declare any of your Bitcoin holdings or profits or whatever else, you don't pay anything. But if you're being completely honest and open about everything, then sure, the government will welcome you with open arms. But then again, officially, you're committing a crime when you avoid paying tax.

Yes I heard the IRS is coming knocking on Coinbase's door asking about it's practices and it's members info.
Now that is concerning to bitcoiners who use them from the USA.

Since bitcoin designed as decentralization network, the gov will not touch us easily, as long as we can be careful to using anything related bitcoin service and not giving a personal data.

If this happens, the effects will be mass, will be a lot of protest and the price movement will be slowly, people waiting for each other, sell wall could be happens.


Any source?

It will take tons of deep research on how they will able to tax the "bitcoin" itself. But you know we already feel that we are already taxed just on a different form.

I already stated this in other thread, some of the legit local exchanger that is a registered company in a certain country faces all the rules applied as a company. They are the one who pays tax to the government as part of complying with the rules of the said country. Because of this, expect some additional but slight fees every transaction or services we are using in the said exchange.

Here in our country, it's present now in one of our local exchanger. But it's fine for us since the services is really great and there are lots of offered services where we can use our bitcoin thru this exchanger.

If they try to tax bitcoin, and they use the exchanges for such people should swicth to altcoins, to avoid the tax, in the general bitcoin could loose interest very fast. For other side legalizing bitcoin could bring advantages, but i dont believe it would good to we be exposed into how many bitcoins we do have, imagine someone know you own several bitcoins and get the information paying some fee, this would make bitcoin a dangerous currencie to hold.

Government imposing tax on bitcoin is very possible, but In my opinion it will be very hard. It will be very hard since anyone who wants to evade tax can just create new address. I also think that government should not impose tax on bitcoin after all the miners are the one who mined all those bitcoins that can be used now and government didn't took part in it so why tax it? Well they gain tax now from bitcoin through electric bills, etc. of miners and of course it's users.

It affects the adoption as well the price to higher extent. More users were into bitcoin to avoid taxation, if taxes were levied surely the decentralization gets converted to semi decentralized. Users identity and transaction details too will gets revealed. Without doubt a big percentage of potential loss will be experienced.

And this is going to be a bad news for us here in bitcoin community if that happen. Yes this is the reason why more people are into bitcoins to avoid taxes and if tax will be implemented soon in bitcoins majority of users might not use bitcoin anymore.

But up to my understanding, it would be too hard for government to impose taxes for bitcoins. Because they will be unable to tax for saving and using bitcoins. They will get chances only a user cashing out his bitcoin into his bank accounts/cards.

So, people will do person to person cash out and will avoid taxes is possible. I guess we need not to worry about the possible taxes in future being a bitcoin user. Only bitcoin business might need to pay taxes compulsorily.

If Bitcoin will impose taxes, it will all pay, and business and ordinary users. I would very much not want

Report says the US federal court approved IRS collection of coinbase users database. The summons cover virtually all coinbase users who were clients from 2013 to 2015. The IRS might use this to investigate other well known or sizable exchanges.

This is very interesting,how can they do that,do they have a technology to do that ,bitcoin is not a property of the us government,they are worldwide who are they gonna prosecute,they can only control us based merchants and users and how about overseas can they have control over these users.

I think it is not just bad news.  The problem of Bitcoin being not adopted by several merchants is not only of the volatility but because some government refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of bitcoin as a currency.  If they impose a tax on bitcoin, it will somehow bring a good impact to the community.  People will then know that bitcoin is legal and the wrong belief about bitcoin will be changed.

It would be easy for bitcoin in this current state to be taxed in my opinion.  Since the lack of direct bitcoin to goods usage, people go to the exchange to convert their bitcoin to cash to buy stuff,  the government will just knock on this exchanges and put some regulatory rule about taxing bitcoin that is converted to cash or vice versa.

That's technically impossible, so not that much to fear about ! What they could do maybe is to impose something on shops, but we'll simply go somewher else ::)...

Anything can possible in this cruel world because bitcoin is not governed and ruled by the government there many individuals who are mining and buying bitcoin with low transaction fees.

What i noticed in the forum is that bitcoin is used from all over the world, so why you guys always panic because the US may tax or not the bitcoin, how about the rest of the world.
You can use Altcoins instead of Bitcoin as generally there is a conversion rate based on pair in exchange with RESTAPI. there are a lot of solutions to avoid taxation.
how about Europe ? will they ban or tax bitcoin ? what would happen if they decide to tax Bitcoin ? Will europe leave Bitcoin behind ? Will the governments tax the wallets ? or the transactions ?

Tax on income applies to Bitcoin. But there is yet to be a tax on the use itself. The general rule is that when you earn a profit, then you will have to pay for that transaction. For example, you bought Bitcoin at $350 and sold it at $700 then you have to pay for that income even if there is no law taxing bitcoin. Because what is taxed is the profit you incurred. Hence you will be liable for $350 x tax rate.

If they will impose tax to bitcoin. I guess they should be legalize it before implementing imposition of tax. I think this will be weaken the bitcoin because the government are going to manipulate it. Bitcoin.is tax free and should not be imposed tax by government. This is the nature of bitcoin. It should be stay that way.

If it makes you guys (in the U.S.) feel better you are paying a rich persons tax. The money you earn busting your ass at work is likely taxed at about 30%. Capitol gains only applies to your profits and is likely about 10%.

I guess mining or buying bitcoins will not incur taxes in my understanding. Only when we cash-out bitcoins we may need to pay tax if governments decide to do so. Still, buying bitcoins may attract sales tax rather than income tax. (These terms may vary country to country). Imposing tax on bitcoin is possible, but we will get solutions also to exempt it.

I will exempt myself just be migrating to a country where bitcoin is not taxable. This is my long-term plan. Really I am saving my bitcoins for long term usage so when I am having considerable amount of bitcoins I may move to a free land compared to my current residency.

Using bitcoin will be covered as basic human right and at least some country will value those rights always.

Moving to another countries is not that easy dude. there's some requirement you need to meet so you could be accepted there. such as joining military, living there for few years before get the official citizenship and etc, i think that's just too much if you're moving to another country just because bitcoin is going to be taxed

Correct,its just a nonsense thing that you will migrate to another country because of bitcoin and im sure you will spend more money because of that because of the requirement needed. Bitcoin cant be possibly impose taxes since its a decentralized and no one could able to control it thats why we should not be worry regarding on this matter and tend to move to another country because of this.

I really do not think privat people will have to pay taxes on the bitcoins they own. At least not in my country.
How would they know how many I own? I sure as hell would never tell them.
And I think the effort it would take for a government to find that out would be way beyond what they could earn with taxes. Hopefully they know that...

Are you unaware that the IRS already is already taxing Bitcoin as property? It hasn't had much effect on the price at all.

hopefully we are not under one government so if IRS decide to tax every transaction, people outside of the usa will live in peace, also it would be very difficult for them to keep track on every transaction for those poeple that didn't decide to give their personal id and exchange their bitcoin in  more unconventional way

Imposing tax on Bitcoin transactions is a bad idea (banking transactions are not taxed, then why those involving BTC should come under the tax regimen?). I am OK with the idea of imposing a small tax on the conversion of Bitcoin to fiat, but that also must be avoided if possible.

Your bank transactions are eligible for taxes when you are exceeding some limit with your income. When you are spending if some limits again exceed then you need to pay taxes based on where you are spending. Similarly bitcoin is also taxable if government decides there are significant usage of it among its citizens.

You mean small percentage ? Taxes are usually based on volume, but small percentage also will sum up big when you are frequently using many small amount of bitcoins.

It is a sure thing if bitcoin becomes more popular in the next few months or years and its price goes higher than it is no surprise that governments will stat imposing taxes on bitcoin transaction , i mean you would not think they let you get away with 1000 $ that easily, since they can't control the flow of bitcoin they will start taking some serious actions.

If it's every transaction, then I think it wouldn't be that nice since no one should be controlling bitcoin in the first place and it should remain as is, However, for capital gains taxes, and value added taxes for every purchases then I think it would be possible because, well, America. As bitcoins have some significant value, America would try their best to tax it out and to regulate it.

Coinbase was asked by US Government to submit their account details of US residents but they appealed against this petition. The US is taking bitcoins too seriously and since there are many bitcoiners from USA, it's possible that they introduce laws against the currency and it would definitely affect the price of bitcoins as it's dependent on USD.

Why do you think that Bitcoin depends on the dollar? I think that its value does not depend on one valyutf world.
It is logical that the government wants to impose taxes on Bitcoin, because it will bring them a large income. They compensate for bank losses from uncollected transactions

In the end every country will try to impose taxes on bitcoin, its how they do things, they tax everything they can. And US government taking everything too seriously, probably they are on top on world cause of that, and steps of US can make a lot of effects on both sides, good or bad.
I support Coinbase decision to not give account details, we will see what will US government do next, this things happen first time, this is totally new environment for governments and people, bitcoin is already making some changes.

I think they worry more about the U.S. because it is a very influential country, so if the U.S. does something maybe other countries may follow and create a cascade of regulations around the world.

i think its impossible to imposing tax on bitcoin currently first of all they need to adopt the bitcoin for their government and adopt the bitcoin in their banks then they can be imposing the tax on bitcoin.

They don't impose tax on transacting bitcoins but the government can impose a tax on how much money you earned from selling your bitcoins. So for example you bought it at the price today and you sold it at 100% more than what it is today, then you must pay for how much you earned from that. That is the concept of income tax.

It isn't!I'm afraid you don't know how income-tax works.Taxing bitcoins wouldn't just be about adding taxes on buying and selling or trading it through exchanges.One would be taxed for every commodity he ever buys with bitcoins along with bitcoins.Example,buying a T-shirt with bitcoins would need a service tax to be paid for the Government,like your real money.

Such taxes could only be levied on purchases of physical goods, however this is also doubtful as with bitcoin there's no central authority to enforce the taxation. So, in other words, you can only collect taxes when fiat goes in or out of bitcoin.

Yes actually the transactions are anonymous and we can make even 1 million addresses and use a new one each time we make a transaction and hence even the best of detectives cannot track those transactions.

The government can never track and tax such transactions and that is what makes bitcoins unique and honestly if I was taxed for using bitcoins I would stop using it.

Actually people are confused, income tax never means that you will be charged for the transactions you make rather income tax means that you pay the government some fees for earning money. So its like you are selling online goods for bitcoins then everything is fine but as soon as you convert them to fiat you pay fees to them.

Yeah you are right but the government has no tools to find out who is doing what business online and hence they cannot really tax someone and the big sellers would themselves pay tax on huge sales.
I think using bitcoins can never be taxed but obviously converting bitcoin to fiat in huge quantities can be taxed.

It is quite useless in my opinion to even try to tax bitcoin, because it would be impossible to measure the capital gains on the coins because it is impossible to track records of who bought how much coins at what time and sold at what time.

And nobody is going to follow any reporting regulations because they simply can't be fucked.

i think bitcoin posible imposing pay tax, but early must regulated
without regulated is imposible
but very dificult to imposing tax, maybe only exchanger can imposing tax, because can calclulated in transaction

Can they really do that and will it benefit the government,US government will looked desperate if they are going to do that,they can impose on merchants inside their borders but not outside of it,and they will need a lot of resources to do that,they are still ok without taxing bitcoin..

In many countries government already impose tax like service tax when you buy/sell Bitcoin from Bitcoin exchange so far it only imposed when you buy/sell it from Bitcoin exchange. But it will different thing if government impose tax on every transaction .
Will it be easy or posible for government to impose tax on Bitcoin transaction?

I think it will be easy for the government to impose tax. All they can do is communicate to exchange and give them law on how they will tax bitcoin that is been exchanged to fiat money and vice versa.  This way people have no choice.  It is a mandatory tax collection LOL.

For local exchange they are already paying tax those only for the owner but for who are buyers of bitcoin i think we are not paying in tax.
Except for rate of any local exchange because they have different rates for every exchange site or local exchange like here we have 3 different local exchange which is 3 different rates..  those owners only are paying for tax and they are just increase the rate depends if what they want..

Don't worry brother the world is cruel but the bitcoins are designed in such a way that putting any sort of taxes on doing any amount of transactions via bitcoins is nearly impossible.

I think that if you sell your bitcoins for cash currency and you hide it from government then you actually have real money with bitcoins without paying taxes, another feature possible only with bitcoins. Because with paypal and al they ask verification.

Bitcoin done very wisely, and it can not be taxed. I think that all the government's attempts to do so are doomed to failure. Bitcoin is being protected from government interference

They cannot impose a thing unless they control the network, if they were able to do it then they could impose any kind of rules and regulations they may like.

I already found companies who asks for a tax on bitcoin payments, maybe it is a way to get more money from customers, and maybe it is due to taxation, i think it was an american company.
Remember that a lot of exchanges based in the US are regulated by the US government, doesn't it means that they are actually taxed ?
I personally don't think so.

If the government imposing tax on bitcoin was sure to happen is bitcoin transaction costs will be greater, and there will probably be routine costs to be incurred. Imposing tax on bitcoin I sure do not apply in all states because each state has different policies. I believe imposing tax on bitcoin will be imposed for countries that accept bitcoin.

The government can't impose the tax into the blockchain . Hence the transaction costs (or you're more likely referring to miner's fee ) aren't going to be affected and will remain the same. But, if the government are imposing the taxation onto merchant whose payment options are also accepting bitcoin then it would affect the bills you're going to pay because it will merged with the tax

The only possible option for Bitcoin taxation is Merchant Taxation, on purshase. They can't tax the blockchain as it is used worldwide, unless the UN passes a motion regarding cryptocurrencies. Even in this case, the blockchain can't be taxed as it is decentralised, the merchants are not decentralised, so they are the only one to be taxed.

Imposing tax on bitcoin? Wht not? For me it's not a big deal since it is for the sake of many people and economic growth. Why worry for this. There are 2 things that is certain tax and death. Right?

There are a lot of exchanges out there

So they may have trouble going after every of them. Since they are mostly online businesses, nothing will prevent them from moving across the Internet and host their services where it is most safest. Further, there are many small islands which are thought of as tax havens, therefore the government may have issues trying to impose these taxes. Personally, I think they would fare much better if they chose to tax miners directly since miners always have physical presence


Let's get rid of them

Good luck getting a penny from me that i don't want you to have lol

Then you will go to jail and meet a big friend named 'I should have paid my tax' in the butt.

Even for some tax wont matter since they do only pay a small portion on their money but there are really people would like to avoid such taxation and wouldnt pay to the said amount no matter what.It may not a big deal for us but on some it is. Tax does really play a big role on economic growth thats why we should not evade or not tend to pay it.Imposing tax on bitcoin is possible but thru exchanges only not on the system itself.

yah. Absolutely. Good luck if you tried to escape tax anyway. It is not possible of course. Just be in the positive side that we need tax in return we are benefiting on it also. So we don't have to worry. A lot of things we should focus on. The government knew what must supposed to do with it.

Some have already tried to walk that path, but with varied success, though (for example, Wesley Snipes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Snipes#Income_tax_conviction)). Maybe, you will be more lucky than most of them, or you just won't get under the radar somehow (miracles happen too), but you should be aware of the possible negative consequences...

http://s008.radikal.ru/i306/1612/c0/c7d439b58b7a.jpg

In any case, more power to you

But how they would know that the money that came to the bank has come from selling bitcoins or by selling goods ?
I mean there are millions of transactions per city and imagine for the whole country and then how would they know who has transacted for which purpose ?

If the IRS is behind you then it is better to just fork the cash than to risk going to jail, they even got Al Capone, so don’t mess with the IRS.

In pretty much the same way they track Bitcoin transactions

If they see that from some bank account there are a lot of transactions to many other accounts, and that account is not linked to a business or other institution, they will note it and check who is the owner and what he does for a living. In fact, going after fiat accounts is a whole lot easier than tracking Bitcoin users


You're welcome

First of all if any government will impose tax on bitcoin then before it they will accept bitcoin as a legal currency for their state and state affairs so in that case the government will support that currency so everyone in that case will rely on bitcoin without any fear and in that case the value will increase much higher so if the government will impose tax then it will not affect the price much.

Yeah. If they were to tax bitcoin then they are recognising it as legal tender, which I don't think they would be willing to do. However capital gains tax on bitcoin could potentially be implemented however is quite impractical.

Bitcoin is digital cash. Cash is hard to tax, just like bitcoin.

I think when the tax applied to all users bitcoin instead it will be a problem, because when you pay taxes of identity as bitcoin users would look, so of course this will be a problem?

The United States is already starting to look into this.
They will get whatever information they can from US based companies like Coinbase,
go after the larger buyers/ sellers and see how much money they can get.

Whether they keep this up for the long term probably depends on how much they get back and the laws related to Bitcoin that get passed over the next few years.

I think polish gov already tax bitcoin mining with VAT

Bitcoin is not digital cash

Since to transact in cash you don't need an intermediary even if the latter is a decentralized Bitcoin network (payment system). With cash, you transact direct without any "man in the middle" (whatever it might be). Further, taxing Bitcoin doesn't mean recognizing it as legal tender, else otherwise foreign currencies should also be recognized as legal tender. Though the currency conversion operations are perfectly taxable in many jurisdictions, for example, in the US

Yes may be true in blockchain there is no tax by the government and it was not possible. But bitcoin wallet for currency exchange there are taxes to be paid. In my country, Indonesia, as of 9 November 2016, all costs for transactions and withdrawals that occurred in Bitcoin.co.id already taxable 10%.

I didn't knew about it and there is no news about this one. If this is true, would mind to put the link about this so that we will know that the polish government is already using and adopting bitcoin their system or else they are just using bitcoin but they are not imposing tax for it.

They can only tax merchants operating within their territory and if that will be the case many US merchants will choose to operate using vpn and underground where they cannot be trace,I don't know if they have the means to trace and tax each transactions ,bitcoin works very much different from all the other payment processor.

You are talking not so much about merchants as service providers

And only about those services which can be rendered remotely, including online services. But what about merchants and service providers that offer tangible goods and services such as, for example, hairdressing services? They need certain physical presence, so to speak, and they could be easily taxed or caught if they choose not to be taxed

Technically, taxation would involve tangible and intangible good. Regardless if you have a physical shop or an online (or even secret shop). What matters is that you gained income from your activities then that is taxable. A hairdressing services is much more easier to tax as it has a physical place of business where the service is rendered. Unlike digital goods where you don't even know which country it is coming from (if no info is disclosed). And these kinds of business is harder to tax because there are different taxation laws per country. But in the end everybody has to pay taxes on their earnings.

I don't think they can do this until bitcoin is not being used legally in the country and has no physical existence nor there is any usage of it around them, they would have been able to do this only if they have already legalized bitcoin in their country and people were using it openly there, i guess.

Taxation on digital goods would be still possible specially to those legit online store which do have the compliance with the government will surely pay their taxes but for those people who do business without any permits is still possible and its really hard to trace them up.

They are now trying to implement that and their first move is ti chase coinbase' transactions wayback 2013-2015 if I'm not mistaken. US is surely in big debt that's why they wanted to touch down bitcoin and wants to impose tax for it. I'm pretty sure that with this move of US, many countries are going to do the same and follow this path of US.

i agree with you , i also do not think that not a single country can impose tax on bitcoin until they consider bitcoin as legal currency, but i think there is no such rules to impost tax on illegal items therefore they first need to consider bitcoin as legal currency and only then they can impost tax on bitcoin.

That's what they are always telling us

But as Thomas Jefferson once said (and hilariousandco posted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1710578.msg17148379#msg17148379) it some time ago), if a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. Personally, I think that governments are already heavily taxing their population through inflation, and while in the most developed countries such as the US and EU the inflation rates may not be high (up to 3-4% annually), in most other countries it is well above what could be called small or negligible inflation. But everyone should decide on their own, of course

Don't need to make bitcoin as a legal currency if they want to impose tax. by imposing tax for every companies or stores profit then they are undirectly taxing the bitcoin users through the stuff they were paying from the companies or stores which had been imposed to pay tax to the government

I am not against taxes, they are mandatory for today's world, think about a study who compares the tax rates to the development level, as parts of GDP, they started from the middle age to 2010, i loosed the link but they said that the development level of a country is bound to the tax's GDP part as it is used to provide services to the citizens. This is true as now you can compare developed countries and the other, the first pays taxes while the others don't, and you can see the result in everyday's life.
I don't say that we should live in a tax free world, this would bring us back to the middle age, but we should be taxed for more things, at lower rates.
Take the VAT tax, it should be lowered, and the difference can be taken back by other taxes, like Pet owning tax ( this is just an example ), it is just a matter of accounting game, but at the end, taxes can be lowere with an extended coverage, at the condition that people actually pay them.
I don't think that a 1% tax on Bitcoin will disturb anyone.

The problem is not with taxes as such

It is with corrupt governments which are, first, not using them efficiently, and, second, using a solid part of them for supporting the government itself. But in the latter case the taxes are again not used efficiently since government is not efficient overall. If you want to know why the government can't be efficient, I can answer that too. Because power cannot be demonopolised in principle (it can only be destroyed completely), and the government is the power monopolist of sorts. But monopolists don't need to be efficient by definition


In the Middle Ages taxes were paid with pure gold, with primarily silver coins used for trade

It is totally impossible that they impose a tax on bitcoin as they do not accept bitcoin as a currency for their country and they do not have any control on any wallet or maybe some wallets. They can do if they start accepting it for their country and will start their wallets.

Maybe in some place, but that is not true in the U.S. Diamonds are not currency either. However if you find a diamond you owe taxes on it. Any wealth you gain is taxable in the U.S.

i like to think about bitcoin, like i think about cash that i found on the street, sure they should be declared, but do the IRS will ever know about it? i don't think so, so it's up to me if i'll declare them or not and the trouble that i might get by deciding to not declare them, still if i not use them nothing bad will happen, no one will ever know how many bitcoin you have.
another thing is, how IRS is going to track those that use bitcoin without exchanging them for fiat, to buy stuff on openbazar, purse, and other unknown business here and there?

It is quite likely that they will eventually find out

I'm not a US citizen so take my words with a grain of salt, but you should be very cautious in respect to whom you transact in cash with (on the other hand, it is readily applicable to anyone anyway). If I'm not mistaken, any deals involving cash in the amounts exceeding 10,000 dollars should be declared to the IRS, regardless of whether you are an individual or a company. You may not know this, so when you buy something, say, a car from somebody with cash for so much, your seller may declare their income, and the IRS might go after you at the end of the day (to inquire about taxes and where you got this money from)

I think so too. If the government wants to impose taxes on Bitcoin, it will certainly find a way to do it. M have the power and they make the laws, and we just need to execute them

i think currently one government can be impose taxes on bitcoin because no one adopt the bitcoin and  if they want to impose the taxes on bitcoin then they should be adopt the bitcoin for their country.

And who? Theirs no currently country who fully adopted it as you said thats why its truly hard to file some taxes for it, but if your country will implement some taxes in your local wallet well posibilities that it will be happen dince since surely they will impose it on wallet charges  since they cannot directly sue people online, where anonymous out here.

If the Government collect taxes, of course the first step is the Government should admit the bitcoin as one of the official currency. Looks funny, if the Government prohibits bitcoin but want to collect taxes.

You are obviously uninformed (or misinformed)

There are quite a few countries that already defined legal status of Bitcoin, which is required to levy taxes on it. For example, in the US capital gains that you obtain from the sale of property or through an investment are taxed. But since Bitcoin is treated as a commodity there, the profits obtained from selling bitcoins are considered as capital gains and thereby fully taxable. The fact of the IRS (the tax agency in the US) sniffing around Coinbase confirms that. On the other hand, in the EU Bitcoin is considered as a foreign currency, and it is not taxable as such

I think that will not be good to impose tax on bitcoin we like bitcoin as it is and if they will impose tax on it then we will once again start to face those hurdles which we are already facing in our normal currency and most of the governments of third world countries are not using the tax for the countries but for their own life.

10k dollars in what time frame? if within a year, i think many poor people are there, so they are not forced to declare, otherwise everyone must declare, i would personally do a transaction with anyone but not reveal my identity, so i'm safe in case i'm dealing with an officer

I think he meant in one purchase. Purchases of currency or anything over 10K will trigger all sorts of investigation. If your caught you will wish you had paid. Failure to do so is way more expensive.

As I got it, there is no time frame altogether (but I can be mistaken), i.e. every deal or transaction in cash equal to or exceeding 10,000 dollars should be declared separately. About a year ago, this question had been discussed in great detail here, and I posted a pdf file from the IRS site with a form which should be filled in such cases and concise explanation how and when exactly it should be filled...

If you are interested, you can easily find this pdf in Google


Don't mess with the IRS

The IRS currently has a capital gains tax on monies made over Bitcoin services. Despite popular belief they make you pay it in USD. The amount of currency value will boost higher without contradiction exactly as any fiat would in most developed countries...

Currencies seem to connect better into circulation plus hold their worth when doing so.