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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: SRoulette on April 07, 2013, 03:34:11 AM



Title: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: SRoulette on April 07, 2013, 03:34:11 AM
We are not sure what happened with Terracoin but all we can say it was not handled great.  
No warning to services using it, just a webpage update, not even a forum thread for discussing the issue and helping others resolve it.

So our current status as of updating is: no transactions are confirming - despite using the latest git tree.

Who writes terracoin ?, is there a thread for this discussion already ?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: meebs on April 07, 2013, 03:36:12 AM
We are not sure what happened with Terracoin but all we can say it was not handled great. 
No warning to services using it, just a webpage update, not even a forum thread for discussing the issue and helping others resolve it.

So our current status as of updating is: no transactions are confirming - despite using the latest git tree.

Who writes terracoin ?, is there a thread for this discussion already ?

The price was high enough that it was stupid profitable for a very short time.. some ASIC people point their guns at it and blow up the difficulty to 165k.. now it is only 55% as profitable as BTC to mine.



Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: SRoulette on April 07, 2013, 04:10:34 AM
The issue as we understand it (and there is not much information being released from the Terracoin dev):

TRC is unrecoverable without ASIC assistance.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: spacegoat on April 07, 2013, 04:20:45 AM
it went back online I thought I have been transferring TRC easily


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: LouReed on April 07, 2013, 04:22:45 AM
I'd like to know what's up with it too. It's trading on BTCe right now for .0143 BTC, which is crazy!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: iamrickrock on April 07, 2013, 04:25:43 AM
You need to upgrade to the new client.


The announcement was made here: http://terracoin.org/news/

Windows binaries are found here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/



Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Smoovious on April 07, 2013, 05:01:03 AM
The issue as we understand it (and there is not much information being released from the Terracoin dev):

TRC is unrecoverable without ASIC assistance.
Well, that's exaggerating it a tad...

It'll take a long time until next retarget, sure, but hardly "unrecoverable"...

-- Smoov


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: BaghdadSteve on April 07, 2013, 05:17:32 AM
You need to upgrade to the new client.


The announcement was made here: http://terracoin.org/news/

Windows binaries are found here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/



Even with the new client lots of people are having problems.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: SRoulette on April 07, 2013, 05:32:49 AM
we are on the latest client and have not seen a tx confirm for over 24 hours.

All it will take next time is for 4-8 asics to mine for 2 days and this will happen all over again. 
How long will users support an altcoin that is taken offline this easily ?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: CoinHoarder on April 07, 2013, 05:36:28 AM
we are on the latest client and have not seen a tx confirm for over 24 hours.

All it will take next time is for 4-8 asics to mine for 2 days and this will happen all over again. 
How long will users support an altcoin that is taken offline this easily ?

Yeah, that's definitely a problem. Perhaps something needs to be altered in the way it calculates and the rate at which TRC difficulty is changed.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: lumberjack on April 07, 2013, 05:53:24 AM
Based on what I've read, they did implement something that was supposed to help vs ASIC bombing. However, someone apparently hit the pool yesterday until the rolling average was blown sky high, then left. The average calculation wound up swinging hard the other direction once the blocks started moving again, driving the difficulty down to 3 or lower for a short while. It's now on the rebound again, and has risen to a point where no new blocks have been found with the current hashrate of the network.


EDIT: blockchain at present. http://www.cryptocoinexplorer.com:3750/chain/Terracoin?count=32


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 07:41:09 AM
We are not sure what happened with Terracoin but all we can say it was not handled great. 
No warning to services using it, just a webpage update, not even a forum thread for discussing the issue and helping others resolve it.

So our current status as of updating is: no transactions are confirming - despite using the latest git tree.

Who writes terracoin ?, is there a thread for this discussion already ?

active services operators, and interested users joined the mailing lists, where this was announced (both users and announce lists)... (if not ... they should if they really care)

quote from terracoin-announce ml :

Quote
Subject:     [Terracoin-announce] build 0.1.3-29 available

Hi,

Urgent, mandatory build is now available on our github repository,
windows builds were uploaded to sourceforge.

This update will bring back a shorter period used in difficulty
computation, until a better algorithm is implemented, making the network
resilient to the huge hashrate spikes we recently saw.

changelog: [urgent] dirty difficulty computation update
- switching to a shorter averaging period.
 - should provide faster diff adjustments, while keeping *4 cap.
 - mandatory at block 101908 (chain should again be 'stucked' then,
   seeing current hashrate growth)

windows download link:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/files/SatoshiClone/terracoin-0.1.3-29-win32.zip/download

Sorry for the two consecutive mandatory updates.


--
TRC.


This message was less detailed than previous messages, because of the 'emergency' aspect i guess, but it was announced...


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Deprived on April 07, 2013, 07:55:00 AM
Noone (or very few people) knows who the devs are - they only correspond through a few sock-puppets/spammers.

Why would they want other people to do transactions?  Better for them if they're the only ones able to dump into the pump on BTC-E. Expect some sort of message along the lines of "oops - we gave you all the wrong client" once the pump/dump is over.

That's the risk you take when you buy into a clone of BTC that lacks the network power and where the devs are too embarassed to even show themselves here.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: hiddenvalleyranch on April 07, 2013, 08:20:58 AM
I'm stuck on block 101606 :(


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 08:23:29 AM
I'm stuck on block 101606 :(

we all are :( in 4 blocks the diff should fall again (block 101610 if i'm right), and give us a chance to see the changes included in the last client

i guess diff will fall incredibly low during those ~ 300 blocks ...


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Impaler on April 07, 2013, 08:26:04 AM
Boy, kids these days go no patience, over at FRC we had to wait 2 months for our difficulty to come down.  ;)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 08:35:15 AM
Well there is a mailing list where all important updates come up pretty fast, and the DEV is on the issue tracker at github, and responds very quickly. He even has is email address listed in response to Sunny Kings exploit discovery, so if in an emergency you could contact via email.

That said I agree, it could have been handled a bit different. At one point though we supposedly had the equivalent of 6% of the BTC network hashing TRC, I think when the dev and others imagined the difficulty "going to the moon" we never thought anywhere near that high. Hence getting the difficulty to settle in any reasonable amount of time became a challenge. The Dev realizes the difficulty of having two mandatory updates one right after another and apologised. Right now it's a temporary fix while a better solution to the difficulty problem has to be found. If ASIC's were to stay on the chain we would be fine, it's figuring how to deal with gpu's one minute, super computers the next, and back to GPU's.

So, growing pains. None of us thrilled about it unfortunately. That said, the price is holding steady on BTC-E, so people still believe (I still do). It's an alt chain, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more then a few bumps along the way.

Anyway, the mailing list will keep anyone up to date though.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: SRoulette on April 07, 2013, 10:20:42 AM
We are not sure what happened with Terracoin but all we can say it was not handled great. 
No warning to services using it, just a webpage update, not even a forum thread for discussing the issue and helping others resolve it.

So our current status as of updating is: no transactions are confirming - despite using the latest git tree.

Who writes terracoin ?, is there a thread for this discussion already ?

active services operators, and interested users joined the mailing lists, where this was announced (both users and announce lists)... (if not ... they should if they really care)

quote from terracoin-announce ml :

Quote
Subject:     [Terracoin-announce] build 0.1.3-29 available

Hi,

Urgent, mandatory build is now available on our github repository,
windows builds were uploaded to sourceforge.

This update will bring back a shorter period used in difficulty
computation, until a better algorithm is implemented, making the network
resilient to the huge hashrate spikes we recently saw.

changelog: [urgent] dirty difficulty computation update
- switching to a shorter averaging period.
 - should provide faster diff adjustments, while keeping *4 cap.
 - mandatory at block 101908 (chain should again be 'stucked' then,
   seeing current hashrate growth)

windows download link:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/files/SatoshiClone/terracoin-0.1.3-29-win32.zip/download

Sorry for the two consecutive mandatory updates.


--
TRC.


This message was less detailed than previous messages, because of the 'emergency' aspect i guess, but it was announced...


Thanks we were unaware of the mailing list, we shall be subscribing shortly.

Boy, kids these days go no patience, over at FRC we had to wait 2 months for our difficulty to come down.  ;)

Ouch that would have been a hard ride to endure for many.

Well there is a mailing list where all important updates come up pretty fast, and the DEV is on the issue tracker at github, and responds very quickly. He even has is email address listed in response to Sunny Kings exploit discovery, so if in an emergency you could contact via email.

That said I agree, it could have been handled a bit different. At one point though we supposedly had the equivalent of 6% of the BTC network hashing TRC, I think when the dev and others imagined the difficulty "going to the moon" we never thought anywhere near that high. Hence getting the difficulty to settle in any reasonable amount of time became a challenge. The Dev realizes the difficulty of having two mandatory updates one right after another and apologised. Right now it's a temporary fix while a better solution to the difficulty problem has to be found. If ASIC's were to stay on the chain we would be fine, it's figuring how to deal with gpu's one minute, super computers the next, and back to GPU's.

So, growing pains. None of us thrilled about it unfortunately. That said, the price is holding steady on BTC-E, so people still believe (I still do). It's an alt chain, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more then a few bumps along the way.

Anyway, the mailing list will keep anyone up to date though.

Thanks for the update, as mentioned about we will be subscribing to the mailing list. 

There does need to be some sort of presence on the forums for new altcoins, a PR figure if you will.
Many altcoins have their coders doubling up as the PR contact ie Sunny King for PPC and Balthazar for NVC. Their presence and willingness to discuss issues as they happen reassure the users.

Lets hope TRC recovers soon and survives the next attack better.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 10:30:49 AM
We are not sure what happened with Terracoin but all we can say it was not handled great. 
No warning to services using it, just a webpage update, not even a forum thread for discussing the issue and helping others resolve it.

So our current status as of updating is: no transactions are confirming - despite using the latest git tree.

Who writes terracoin ?, is there a thread for this discussion already ?

active services operators, and interested users joined the mailing lists, where this was announced (both users and announce lists)... (if not ... they should if they really care)

quote from terracoin-announce ml :

Quote
Subject:     [Terracoin-announce] build 0.1.3-29 available

Hi,

Urgent, mandatory build is now available on our github repository,
windows builds were uploaded to sourceforge.

This update will bring back a shorter period used in difficulty
computation, until a better algorithm is implemented, making the network
resilient to the huge hashrate spikes we recently saw.

changelog: [urgent] dirty difficulty computation update
- switching to a shorter averaging period.
 - should provide faster diff adjustments, while keeping *4 cap.
 - mandatory at block 101908 (chain should again be 'stucked' then,
   seeing current hashrate growth)

windows download link:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/files/SatoshiClone/terracoin-0.1.3-29-win32.zip/download

Sorry for the two consecutive mandatory updates.


--
TRC.


This message was less detailed than previous messages, because of the 'emergency' aspect i guess, but it was announced...


Thanks we were unaware of the mailing list, we shall be subscribing shortly.

Boy, kids these days go no patience, over at FRC we had to wait 2 months for our difficulty to come down.  ;)

Ouch that would have been a hard ride to endure for many.

Well there is a mailing list where all important updates come up pretty fast, and the DEV is on the issue tracker at github, and responds very quickly. He even has is email address listed in response to Sunny Kings exploit discovery, so if in an emergency you could contact via email.

That said I agree, it could have been handled a bit different. At one point though we supposedly had the equivalent of 6% of the BTC network hashing TRC, I think when the dev and others imagined the difficulty "going to the moon" we never thought anywhere near that high. Hence getting the difficulty to settle in any reasonable amount of time became a challenge. The Dev realizes the difficulty of having two mandatory updates one right after another and apologised. Right now it's a temporary fix while a better solution to the difficulty problem has to be found. If ASIC's were to stay on the chain we would be fine, it's figuring how to deal with gpu's one minute, super computers the next, and back to GPU's.

So, growing pains. None of us thrilled about it unfortunately. That said, the price is holding steady on BTC-E, so people still believe (I still do). It's an alt chain, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more then a few bumps along the way.

Anyway, the mailing list will keep anyone up to date though.

Thanks for the update, as mentioned about we will be subscribing to the mailing list. 

There does need to be some sort of presence on the forums for new altcoins, a PR figure if you will.
Many altcoins have their coders doubling up as the PR contact ie Sunny King for PPC and Balthazar for NVC. Their presence and willingness to discuss issues as they happen reassure the users.

Lets hope TRC recovers soon and survives the next attack better.

I agree, although I wouldn't count this as an attack. More like, "victim of it's own success" with massive GPU miners and ASIC miners decided to get a big purse of coins in a short amount of time and then decide to go back to bitcoin, leaving us with the diff.

The DEV is on the github issue tracker, although it's true a presence here would be nice (I think the DEV is lurking though, I have my suspicions about who he is). That said, PPC and LTC are lucky to have Sunny King and Coblee. No one wants a DEV that can't resist the urge to descend into a Troll fest a-la SolidCoin......

In anycase, the Dev is working on it. There should be a way to find a compromise between preventing a collapse of the diff from ASIC's while simultaneously allowing the DIFF to drop within a reasonable time frame after the huge miners get off.

Of course another solution would be if the price jumps and ASICS just stay on it. :-)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: BaronMcG on April 07, 2013, 10:40:17 AM
While i do support terracoin i think the issue of someone poining asics at the network and thrus forcing up the difficulty of a reletively new coin shows a major flaw in most alt-coin designs - using the same algorythm as bitcoin, imho any alt coin that wants to stand the test of time and actually be taken seriously is going to need a difference algo - take litecoin as the perfect example, different algo and it's followed the same mining evolution as bitcoin.

First CPU, now GPU - next someone will develope an FPGA and eventually it will probably go ASIC - this is how it should be. it shouldnt run the risk of being killed off in a matter of days because someone pointed a high end mining device at it.

The lesson i think that should be learned is that now ASIC's are out there, if you want a serious alt-coin then dont use the same algo as someone else.



Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 11:08:26 AM
While i do support terracoin i think the issue of someone poining asics at the network and thrus forcing up the difficulty of a reletively new coin shows a major flaw in most alt-coin designs - using the same algorythm as bitcoin, imho any alt coin that wants to stand the test of time and actually be taken seriously is going to need a difference algo - take litecoin as the perfect example, different algo and it's followed the same mining evolution as bitcoin.

First CPU, now GPU - next someone will develope an FPGA and eventually it will probably go ASIC - this is how it should be. it shouldnt run the risk of being killed off in a matter of days because someone pointed a high end mining device at it.

The lesson i think that should be learned is that now ASIC's are out there, if you want a serious alt-coin then dont use the same algo as someone else.



Well the thing is, when the hash rate gets more stable, we actually WANT the ASICs out there to mine the chain. The problem right now is figuring out how to accomodate ASIC's leaving the chain without unfairly penalising the rest of us. ASIC's provide security and strength, they are really very good- we just need to figure out how to deal with them in the bootstrap phase of a coin. Once we get past this, (or once there are more asics in the world, AHEM BFL) the hash rate will be more uniform and this won't be an issue anymore and the coin will be secured.

Growing pains, to say the least.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: moni3z on April 07, 2013, 11:13:28 AM
what's with the generic stock pics of corporate guys in suits pointing at stuff on their website? i'd sooner mine cosbycoins before i mined this junk


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: hiddenvalleyranch on April 07, 2013, 11:13:49 AM
I've been stuck on 1 confirmation for hours.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: John Self on April 07, 2013, 11:18:56 AM
I find it insane that TRC is almost half the value of LTC on btc-e considering how unstable it is and how nothing accepts TRC. I sold all my TRC after the ASIC incident and expect the bubble to pop later today.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: spacegoat on April 07, 2013, 11:21:22 AM
what's with the generic stock pics of corporate guys in suits pointing at stuff on their website? i'd sooner mine cosbycoins before i mined this junk

right


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 11:23:30 AM
I find it insane that TRC is almost half the value of LTC on btc-e considering how unstable it is and how nothing accepts TRC. I sold all my TRC after the ASIC incident and expect the bubble to pop later today.

+1

Terracoin is just failed experiment at this moment. It started great, but ASIC chain jumpers killed it. New patch, which is nothing but undo to previous
versions with 30 blocks retargeting, won't fix anything. Difficulty will keep on jumping from 100k+ down to eventualy 1 and then back to 100k+. Those
who think such altcoin has a future and are investing in it are, as guy above stated, insane.

I think CNN would concur that we are ALL insane for investing in crypto at the start.

It's a temporary patch to prevent the network from slowing to a crawl while a better solution is found. Rome wasn't built in a day....


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 11:29:45 AM
I find it insane that TRC is almost half the value of LTC on btc-e considering how unstable it is and how nothing accepts TRC. I sold all my TRC after the ASIC incident and expect the bubble to pop later today.

+1

Terracoin is just failed experiment at this moment. It started great, but ASIC chain jumpers killed it. New patch, which is nothing but undo to previous
versions with 30 blocks retargeting, won't fix anything. Difficulty will keep on jumping from 100k+ down to eventualy 1 and then back to 100k+. Those
who think such altcoin has a future and are investing in it are, as guy above stated, insane.

you misread the code, it always was a 30 blocks retargetting interval, the blocks count used to compute next difficulty, based on delay between those X blocks, changed from :

- 30 blocks backward (when coin was launched) ; ~ 29 until the potential 51% diff abuse fix was implemented
- to 24 * 30 blocks backward, a week or two ago,
- now (actually in 300 blocks) 3 * 30 blocks backward

so this is not (fully) an undo, but as crazy_rabbit said, until the network gets a more stable, higher hashrate, there will be fluctuations :(


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: TradeFortress 🏕 on April 07, 2013, 11:30:08 AM
Hmm.. maybe porting over the bitcoin testnet's "reset difficulty to 1 if new blocks haven't being mined in the past X time" is a good idea?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 11:35:26 AM
Hmm.. maybe porting over the bitcoin testnet's "reset difficulty to 1 if new blocks haven't being mined in the past X time" is a good idea?

i guess this could be an idea, maybe not downgrading as far as diff=1, but somehow based on the time taken to forge the last X blocks


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: TradeFortress 🏕 on April 07, 2013, 11:36:21 AM
Hmm.. maybe porting over the bitcoin testnet's "reset difficulty to 1 if new blocks haven't being mined in the past X time" is a good idea?

i guess this could be an idea, maybe not downgrading as far as diff=1, but somehow based on the time taken to forge the last X blocks
Halve the difficulty every 8 hours without blocks?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Impaler on April 07, 2013, 11:51:10 AM
TF:  Difficulty is a value in the blocks themselves, only a new block and set the difficulty for the next block.  By definition nothing in the block-chain can change without a block being made.  The only way to do what your describing would be to patch the client to make it intentionally over-ride the block-chain and accept that over-ride as valid.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 11:51:36 AM
Hmm.. maybe porting over the bitcoin testnet's "reset difficulty to 1 if new blocks haven't being mined in the past X time" is a good idea?

i guess this could be an idea, maybe not downgrading as far as diff=1, but somehow based on the time taken to forge the last X blocks
Halve the difficulty every 8 hours without blocks?

That is a really good idea, although the other day it took almost as long anyway to get the difficulty all the way back down to normal, rather then just 1/2. Maybe it could be every 20 minutes?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 11:52:13 AM
TF:  Difficulty is a value in the blocks themselves, only a new block and set the difficulty for the next block.  By definition nothing in the block-chain can change without a block being made.  The only way to do what your describing would be to patch the client to make it intentionally over-ride the block-chain and accept that over-ride as valid.

ah. Okay. Other suggestions? Besides BFL shipping ASICS and me finally getting one?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 12:03:31 PM
hrm .. it looks like people are getting ready for the next mess (happening in 1 or two blocks from now?), noticeable increase in p2pool hashrate, people are collecting shares...

for sure, those 300 blocks, until next code update is applied, are going to be messy... :(
(seeing how low the trc network hashrate currently is .. when dustcoin.com will start showing some green lights ... another massive spike will probably hit, while diff would still be calculated over the last 720 blocks??)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 12:09:05 PM
as an emergency, when current found block came let's say 10 times "late" when compared to the awaited 2-mins interval, while not beeing a retargetting block, we could imagine lowering the diff don't you think?
(not sure about the ratio, multiply current diff by let's say .. 0.8 or 0.9 to prevent a yoyo effect of some sort)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 07, 2013, 12:28:10 PM
I find it insane that TRC is almost half the value of LTC on btc-e considering how unstable it is and how nothing accepts TRC. I sold all my TRC after the ASIC incident and expect the bubble to pop later today.

ASICs mined most of them, and are playing with the prices.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: mr_random on April 07, 2013, 12:39:56 PM
Terracoin is a bubble that is going to burst fast if this keeps up much longer. This is the second time Terracoins have died in the last 2 days.

So we have a coin that offers no advantages over Bitcoin or Litecoin and it also keeps crashing due to the ASIC miners.  :-\

People are just buying these Terracoins based on hype and hoping it will be the next Litecoin. The only reason it's so high in price is hype and short supply, the latter of which isn't going to last much longer with these ASICs caning the system.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 12:52:33 PM
I find it insane that TRC is almost half the value of LTC on btc-e considering how unstable it is and how nothing accepts TRC. I sold all my TRC after the ASIC incident and expect the bubble to pop later today.

ASICs mined most of them, and are playing with the prices.

No, the ones playing with prices are people buying TRC. If there is no demand, one can set price anywhere above zero, but price will go down
to zero anyway. TRC still has pricetag just because some are ready to gamble big time, taking extreme risk. ASIC miners are just getting the
most out of the whole deal, that's it.

Terracoin devs should implement PPCoin retargeting code.

That is also an interesting idea- maybe sunny king can give some tips about this as well. How does the PPC retargeting code work?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 07, 2013, 01:07:19 PM
I find it insane that TRC is almost half the value of LTC on btc-e considering how unstable it is and how nothing accepts TRC. I sold all my TRC after the ASIC incident and expect the bubble to pop later today.

ASICs mined most of them, and are playing with the prices.

No, the ones playing with prices are people buying TRC. If there is no demand, one can set price anywhere above zero, but price will go down
to zero anyway. TRC still has pricetag just because some are ready to gamble big time, taking extreme risk. ASIC miners are just getting the
most out of the whole deal, that's it.

Terracoin devs should implement PPCoin retargeting code.

You must be joking...There are less buy orders than NVC. -_- There really is no real demand for it and it's all just speculation, and a few dudes buying a handful hoping to ride the wave. At this point it's just turning in to Gold, or some other icon of wealth that rarely gets traded.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: iHeartSmartArt on April 07, 2013, 01:09:51 PM
Terracoin is a bubble that is going to burst fast if this keeps up much longer. This is the second time Terracoins have died in the last 2 days.

So we have a coin that offers no advantages over Bitcoin or Litecoin and it also keeps crashing due to the ASIC miners.  :-\

People are just buying these Terracoins based on hype and hoping it will be the next Litecoin. The only reason it's so high in price is hype and short supply, the latter of which isn't going to last much longer with these ASICs caning the system.

i bet everything is still secure, I'll send you Gold for your TRC today pm me
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=169346.0


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: BaronMcG on April 07, 2013, 01:40:29 PM
While i do support terracoin i think the issue of someone poining asics at the network and thrus forcing up the difficulty of a reletively new coin shows a major flaw in most alt-coin designs - using the same algorythm as bitcoin, imho any alt coin that wants to stand the test of time and actually be taken seriously is going to need a difference algo - take litecoin as the perfect example, different algo and it's followed the same mining evolution as bitcoin.

First CPU, now GPU - next someone will develope an FPGA and eventually it will probably go ASIC - this is how it should be. it shouldnt run the risk of being killed off in a matter of days because someone pointed a high end mining device at it.

The lesson i think that should be learned is that now ASIC's are out there, if you want a serious alt-coin then dont use the same algo as someone else.



Well the thing is, when the hash rate gets more stable, we actually WANT the ASICs out there to mine the chain. The problem right now is figuring out how to accomodate ASIC's leaving the chain without unfairly penalising the rest of us. ASIC's provide security and strength, they are really very good- we just need to figure out how to deal with them in the bootstrap phase of a coin. Once we get past this, (or once there are more asics in the world, AHEM BFL) the hash rate will be more uniform and this won't be an issue anymore and the coin will be secured.

Growing pains, to say the least.

i believe asics provide strength to bitcoin because of its large network hasrate to begin with, but with a smaller coin unfortunatly it causes a massive increase in the difficulty and causes problems -  whereby i can image a lot of the smaller hobby miners - whom provide greater security and stability to a new coin - leave.

 i see more stability in a thousand single graphics cards mining away getting a fair slice of the pie than half a dozan guys with asics taking over the whole network.

while i can see a large number of people holding high powered mining rigs on a massive network as a bonus, i cant see how it would be good for a small alt coin, i mean if someone had pointed an asic at a new coin the first day it launched then left with a masive difficulty increase remaining in there wake then the larger number of smaller guys are going to be put off by only getting 1 or 2 coins for 24 hour mining with there cards, given that said alt coin is nowhere near as valuble as bitcoin it leaves very little incentive to actually mine it.

a more decentralised coin is for me, having many many people chipping in, not a few people taking over.

if you want to prevent asics from hopping the pool and making a mess of things then change the algo and in the future should the coin stand the test of time its own brand of asics will come, trying to force the evolution of mining onto something will only ruin it for the majority of people whom you need for the coins survival.



Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: mr_random on April 07, 2013, 01:51:44 PM
You must be joking...There are less buy orders than NVC. -_- There really is no real demand for it and it's all just speculation, and a few dudes buying a handful hoping to ride the wave. At this point it's just turning in to Gold, or some other icon of wealth that rarely gets traded.

This.

The market depth is shallow as a puddle. If a small number of people decide to get out while they can after the recent bad news the price will drop like a rock.


i bet everything is still secure, I'll send you Gold for your TRC today pm me

Not many vendors are going to accept a currency whose network dies for hours under moderate stress loads.



Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Arbitrageur on April 07, 2013, 02:13:28 PM
so far only four blocks for the day???

http://www.cryptocoinexplorer.com:3750/chain/Terracoin?count=32

yesterday seems all was fine though...there were 3-4 per hours, what's happening today?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: dykast on April 07, 2013, 02:18:17 PM
We need Avalon's back on the network ASAP.  Tons of money to be made by all. LOTS of people moving coins from vircurex to btc-e and we need the network up.  Please help!!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: jar on April 07, 2013, 02:21:38 PM
If the price is right, ASIC miners would be mining TRC permanently.  Right now, the market is undervalued for them.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Vantix on April 07, 2013, 02:22:09 PM
IMHO will dead  ;D


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: jar on April 07, 2013, 02:30:40 PM
IMHO will dead  ;D

Methinks you just want cheap TRC.  The terracoin network would continuously have 6% of the bitcoin network throughput if the price were 0.03 BTC/TRC.  Basically, the price needs to double.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 07, 2013, 02:43:54 PM
IMHO will dead  ;D

Methinks you just want cheap TRC.  The terracoin network would continuously have 6% of the bitcoin network throughput if the price were 0.03 BTC/TRC.  Basically, the price needs to double.

The market can't, most likely won't, support that.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: mr_random on April 07, 2013, 02:56:56 PM

Methinks you just want cheap TRC.  The terracoin network would continuously have 6% of the bitcoin network throughput if the price were 0.03 BTC/TRC.  Basically, the price needs to double.

The coin infrastructure is broken and you think the price will double in light of that news.  ::)



Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 03:43:54 PM

Methinks you just want cheap TRC.  The terracoin network would continuously have 6% of the bitcoin network throughput if the price were 0.03 BTC/TRC.  Basically, the price needs to double.

The coin infrastructure is broken and you think the price will double in light of that news.  ::)

Indeed, LOL! You people seem to be unaware of the major issue right now, and that is how easy is to ruin Terracoin completely.
Vircurex reports Terracoin network hashing at around 46 GHashes. 1 Avalon ASIC with 3 modules hashes at around 65 GHashes,
which is more than enough to kill Terracoin. Of course, from the point of making money it would not make sense to do it, but my
point is that Terracoin is more vulnerable than ever before. To asume no one will kill it because it would not be in in his or her
interest - read: no profit - is major logic flaw. Would all other altcoins profit from Terracoin going down? Of course! So, right now
it takes just one person with Avalon who heavily invested in PPC, LTC or some other coins other than TRC to decide to get rid off
"annoyance" and thus turn at least some of those who were dealing with TRC to coins he or she owns in thousands or millions.

If I'm one of those people, Terracoin would be dead already. That which sux must be destroyed so there is more room for that
which sux less.

Most here are thinking so narrow and shallow it is really disturbing. Try to think what image cryptocoins project on those who
just recently discovered them. Since Terracoin just slightly differs from Bitcoin, problems with it and other altcoins will inevitably
affect opinions about Bitcoin. Making some profit of altcoins while at the same time killing Bitcoin is sure way to ruin everything.

As a point, even BTC blocks are taking longer then usual to confirm. Maybe someone out there as an ASIC network that isn't running very smoothly?

EDIT: Don't be so dramatic. No one has their grandmother hooked up to a TRC life support machine. Things break, we fix them, life goes on. This is an experiment. If you wanted total security you should tuck your BTC in FIAT. Because we know how awesome that is 100% of the time.

Second EDIT: It's not even broken. Its just god-awful slow. Update your client to help fix this.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Blindfolded on April 07, 2013, 03:52:11 PM
Rabbit, actually I have updated and it still will not sync


edit: things are moving again

Currency   Code   Block   Time   Started   Age (days)   Coins Created   Avg Coin Age   % CoinDD
Terracoin   TRC   101609   2013-04-07 15:52:19   2012-10-26   163.28   2032230   33.1314   59.6073%


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: mr_random on April 07, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
EDIT: Don't be so dramatic. No one has their grandmother hooked up to a TRC life support machine. Things break, we fix them, life goes on. This is an experiment.

It's kind of important a currency system doesn't break.  What if this gets patched and then it rears it's ugly head again later down the line when the network is even bigger. I ask this because we're now on the third mandatory patch to do with difficulty adjustments in the last month.

In it's present form TRC simply isn't suitable for use by vendors.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 04:02:28 PM
EDIT: Don't be so dramatic. No one has their grandmother hooked up to a TRC life support machine. Things break, we fix them, life goes on. This is an experiment.

It's kind of important a currency system doesn't break.  What if this gets patched and then it rears it's ugly head again later down the line when the network is even bigger. I ask this because we're now on the third mandatory patch to do with difficulty adjustments in the last month.

In it's present form TRC simply isn't suitable for use by vendors.

Well I agree with you about the use by vendors. But there are hardly any vendors using any alt coins. I do feel for sRoulette though- as this seriously impacts their business model.

At the moment what we can do is keep building. Speculators will Speculate, we all know that. There is a profit to be made by anyone in speculation (as well as loss). Indeed the speculation is important part of the economic growth- it leads to a wider distribution of coins. Originaly miners and hoarders sell their coins for a handsome profit and it goes into possesion of a larger number of users. Those users then are invested with a sense of ownership and some portion of them will work to make the coins they bought (over priced) to be as valuable if not more then when they bought them. So they build services, which further widens the market. Then the price eventually returns and surpasses the value at which hoarders sold. But now the coins are in many more hands then at the start. So it's a natural process.

Along the way will we fix this diff issue. It could happen to any of the SHA-256 coins- Freicoin was at a virtual standstill for two months waiting for their diff to come down.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 04:05:02 PM
Don't be so dramatic. No one has their grandmother hooked up to a TRC life support machine. Things break, we fix them, life goes on. This is an experiment.

It is? Drop me a few thousands TRC to address bellow, I wanna experiment with exchages a little, or something else.

17xe7DmMdPvmefSR72fE2Nvp7eBgcqSiph

A few thousand huh? Don't be modest.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Simran on April 07, 2013, 04:34:44 PM
You guys do realize that TRC is only up at the moment because fontas is pumping the price, right? ::)
Once he decides to hop to another coin, he'll dump all his TRC, and price will never recover. ::)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: master-P on April 07, 2013, 05:32:41 PM
If you don't have Terracoins then it is dying.

If you do have Terracoins then it is not dying until you dump them  ;D


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 06:27:19 PM
You guys do realize that TRC is only up at the moment because fontas is pumping the price, right? ::)
Once he decides to hop to another coin, he'll dump all his TRC, and price will never recover. ::)


who the heck is fontas?!?!?!?!?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: tacotime on April 07, 2013, 06:30:35 PM
You guys do realize that TRC is only up at the moment because fontas is pumping the price, right? ::)
Once he decides to hop to another coin, he'll dump all his TRC, and price will never recover. ::)


who the heck is fontas?!?!?!?!?

btc-e trollbox champion.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: hiddenvalleyranch on April 07, 2013, 06:40:47 PM
I ended up selling it, the price is pretty high now and with the instability I don't see how it will last. I will just keep BTC right now and maybe consider getting back into TRC once all these problems go away.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 06:46:44 PM
with current net hashrate, it will take quite some time to get to next big diff adjustment & get a usable coin back (18 blocks remaining?)  :(


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: hiddenvalleyranch on April 07, 2013, 06:57:51 PM
with current net hashrate, it will take quite some time to get to next big diff adjustment & get a usable coin back (18 blocks remaining?)  :(

It took about 12hrs for my transaction to go through, but it did go through.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: MaGNeT on April 07, 2013, 07:00:44 PM
with current net hashrate, it will take quite some time to get to next big diff adjustment & get a usable coin back (18 blocks remaining?)  :(

It took about 12hrs for my transaction to go through, but it did go through.

Same for me, tried to get them to BTC-E and after 12 hours finally it's confirmed.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 07, 2013, 07:09:29 PM
if only half of the TRC traders were effectively mining it :) we probably never ran into those hashrate/diff problems :)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: hiddenvalleyranch on April 07, 2013, 07:10:11 PM
with current net hashrate, it will take quite some time to get to next big diff adjustment & get a usable coin back (18 blocks remaining?)  :(

It took about 12hrs for my transaction to go through, but it did go through.

Same for me, tried to get them to BTC-E and after 12 hours finally it's confirmed.

And after the price drops about 25% :(. Still made a handsome profit though.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 07:19:16 PM
I ended up selling it, the price is pretty high now and with the instability I don't see how it will last. I will just keep BTC right now and maybe consider getting back into TRC once all these problems go away.

Ah, but the speculative profit potential is linked to the inherent risk, no?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: hiddenvalleyranch on April 07, 2013, 08:34:05 PM
I ended up selling it, the price is pretty high now and with the instability I don't see how it will last. I will just keep BTC right now and maybe consider getting back into TRC once all these problems go away.

Ah, but the speculative profit potential is linked to the inherent risk, no?

Too much risk for me.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: BeeCee1 on April 07, 2013, 08:37:36 PM

quote from terracoin-announce ml :

Quote
Subject:     [Terracoin-announce] build 0.1.3-29 available

This update will bring back a shorter period used in difficulty
computation, until a better algorithm is implemented, making the network
resilient to the huge hashrate spikes we recently saw.




So this means that there is going to be another mandatory update sometime in the near future with yet another difficulty adjustment algorithm?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 09:10:07 PM

quote from terracoin-announce ml :

Quote
Subject:     [Terracoin-announce] build 0.1.3-29 available

This update will bring back a shorter period used in difficulty
computation, until a better algorithm is implemented, making the network
resilient to the huge hashrate spikes we recently saw.




So this means that there is going to be another mandatory update sometime in the near future with yet another difficulty adjustment algorithm?

Yeah but there would have been another update when bitcoin gets updated anyway, so relax. Bitcoin isn't even 1.0 version yet. It's annoying, yes, no doubt, but it's a work in progress.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Arbitrageur on April 07, 2013, 09:27:32 PM
come find new blocks... I've been stuck since 7 hours waiting for confirmations


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: BeeCee1 on April 07, 2013, 09:28:32 PM
While i do support terracoin i think the issue of someone poining asics at the network and thrus forcing up the difficulty of a reletively new coin shows a major flaw in most alt-coin designs - using the same algorythm as bitcoin, imho any alt coin that wants to stand the test of time and actually be taken seriously is going to need a difference algo - take litecoin as the perfect example, different algo and it's followed the same mining evolution as bitcoin.

I agree.  History has now shown that starting an alt coin that uses the same hashing algorithm as an existing, strong, coin is a bad choice.  We now have had several examples of this.

The first was Namecoin, where the difficulty went way up then mining power left and it was stuck for several months at super-high difficulty.

The next was CoildCoin (CLC).  It had merged-mining right from the start in an attempt to have a higher hashrate. However, Luke-Jr (who controled the Elgius pool at the time) set the pool to merge-mine it and not allow anyone elses blocks or allow any transactions in his blocks.  Since Elgius had a much higher hashrate then the rest of the network, he was successful and the network stalled.

For Terracoin (TRC) a single person with a bitcoin ASIC starts mining and causes the difficulty to fluctuate wildly (first difficulty calculation method) or causes it to go up and stay up (second difficulty calculation method).  That person had over 50% of the hashpower and could have done much more damage (and still can if they want to).  They could mine their blocks exclusively, ignoreing any blocks found by anyone else, thus getting all the block rewards, excluding others transactions, and doing double spends at will.

re-using the same hashing algorithm sounds like a good idea, it takes less effort, you don't have to worry about introducing new bugs, and you can take advantage of all the optimized software/hardware to get your hashrate up.  However, an attacker has access to the same software/hardware that you do, may already have a lot of it, and, often has a vested interest in a different coin succeeding so have a reason to use those resources to attack a new chain.

This is certainly true for sha256 and is mostly likely true for scrypt now (if not, certainly when scrypt fpga's come out it will by).


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 07, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
While i do support terracoin i think the issue of someone poining asics at the network and thrus forcing up the difficulty of a reletively new coin shows a major flaw in most alt-coin designs - using the same algorythm as bitcoin, imho any alt coin that wants to stand the test of time and actually be taken seriously is going to need a difference algo - take litecoin as the perfect example, different algo and it's followed the same mining evolution as bitcoin.

I agree.  History has now shown that starting an alt coin that uses the same hashing algorithm as an existing, strong, coin is a bad choice.  We now have had several examples of this.

The first was Namecoin, where the difficulty went way up then mining power left and it was stuck for several months at super-high difficulty.

The next was CoildCoin (CLC).  It had merged-mining right from the start in an attempt to have a higher hashrate. However, Luke-Jr (who controled the Elgius pool at the time) set the pool to merge-mine it and not allow anyone elses blocks or allow any transactions in his blocks.  Since Elgius had a much higher hashrate then the rest of the network, he was successful and the network stalled.

For Terracoin (TRC) a single person with a bitcoin ASIC starts mining and causes the difficulty to fluctuate wildly (first difficulty calculation method) or causes it to go up and stay up (second difficulty calculation method).  That person had over 50% of the hashpower and could have done much more damage (and still can if they want to).  They could mine their blocks exclusively, ignoreing any blocks found by anyone else, thus getting all the block rewards, excluding others transactions, and doing double spends at will.

re-using the same hashing algorithm sounds like a good idea, it takes less effort, you don't have to worry about introducing new bugs, and you can take advantage of all the optimized software/hardware to get your hashrate up.  However, an attacker has access to the same software/hardware that you do, may already have a lot of it, and, often has a vested interest in a different coin succeeding so have a reason to use those resources to attack a new chain.

This is certainly true for sha256 and is mostly likely true for scrypt now (if not, certainly when scrypt fpga's come out it will by).


Not quite true for Scypt, or NovaCoin would be dead.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 07, 2013, 09:44:41 PM
While i do support terracoin i think the issue of someone poining asics at the network and thrus forcing up the difficulty of a reletively new coin shows a major flaw in most alt-coin designs - using the same algorythm as bitcoin, imho any alt coin that wants to stand the test of time and actually be taken seriously is going to need a difference algo - take litecoin as the perfect example, different algo and it's followed the same mining evolution as bitcoin.

I agree.  History has now shown that starting an alt coin that uses the same hashing algorithm as an existing, strong, coin is a bad choice.  We now have had several examples of this.

The first was Namecoin, where the difficulty went way up then mining power left and it was stuck for several months at super-high difficulty.

The next was CoildCoin (CLC).  It had merged-mining right from the start in an attempt to have a higher hashrate. However, Luke-Jr (who controled the Elgius pool at the time) set the pool to merge-mine it and not allow anyone elses blocks or allow any transactions in his blocks.  Since Elgius had a much higher hashrate then the rest of the network, he was successful and the network stalled.

For Terracoin (TRC) a single person with a bitcoin ASIC starts mining and causes the difficulty to fluctuate wildly (first difficulty calculation method) or causes it to go up and stay up (second difficulty calculation method).  That person had over 50% of the hashpower and could have done much more damage (and still can if they want to).  They could mine their blocks exclusively, ignoreing any blocks found by anyone else, thus getting all the block rewards, excluding others transactions, and doing double spends at will.

re-using the same hashing algorithm sounds like a good idea, it takes less effort, you don't have to worry about introducing new bugs, and you can take advantage of all the optimized software/hardware to get your hashrate up.  However, an attacker has access to the same software/hardware that you do, may already have a lot of it, and, often has a vested interest in a different coin succeeding so have a reason to use those resources to attack a new chain.

This is certainly true for sha256 and is mostly likely true for scrypt now (if not, certainly when scrypt fpga's come out it will by).


the problem isn't the algo, sha256 or Scrypt, the problem in this case is figuring out how to start a new coin in a 'coin aware' environment. Bitcoin started before anyone understood it, Litecoin in a sense too entered into a much quieter crypto market. Enterning now takes a heck of a lot more. Give it time. These things work themselves out.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: No_2 on April 07, 2013, 11:29:42 PM
So I'm clear can someone explain the TRC "ASIC incident" to which so many of you refer.

Thanks,


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: TradeFortress 🏕 on April 07, 2013, 11:37:15 PM
TF:  Difficulty is a value in the blocks themselves, only a new block and set the difficulty for the next block.  By definition nothing in the block-chain can change without a block being made.  The only way to do what your describing would be to patch the client to make it intentionally over-ride the block-chain and accept that over-ride as valid.

ah. Okay. Other suggestions? Besides BFL shipping ASICS and me finally getting one?
No, testnet does it already, it just assumes the difficulty is 1 if there has being no new blocks found in the past 24 hours or so (iirc)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 01:25:36 AM
Can someone (or a lot of people) please mine TRC I've had a deposit into BTC-e hung up on 4 confirms for 10 hours...


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 08, 2013, 01:34:21 AM
Can someone (or a lot of people) please mine TRC I've had a deposit into BTC-e hung up on 4 confirms for 10 hours...

Considering the rounds are taking seven+ hours to complete, yeah... I don't think anyone will see TRC soon.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 01:37:11 AM
Can someone (or a lot of people) please mine TRC I've had a deposit into BTC-e hung up on 4 confirms for 10 hours...

Considering the rounds are taking seven+ hours to complete, yeah... I don't think anyone will see TRC soon.

I'm over it


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Peleus on April 08, 2013, 01:43:24 AM
While i do support terracoin i think the issue of someone poining asics at the network and thrus forcing up the difficulty of a reletively new coin shows a major flaw in most alt-coin designs - using the same algorythm as bitcoin, imho any alt coin that wants to stand the test of time and actually be taken seriously is going to need a difference algo - take litecoin as the perfect example, different algo and it's followed the same mining evolution as bitcoin.

I agree.  History has now shown that starting an alt coin that uses the same hashing algorithm as an existing, strong, coin is a bad choice.  We now have had several examples of this.

The first was Namecoin, where the difficulty went way up then mining power left and it was stuck for several months at super-high difficulty.

The next was CoildCoin (CLC).  It had merged-mining right from the start in an attempt to have a higher hashrate. However, Luke-Jr (who controled the Elgius pool at the time) set the pool to merge-mine it and not allow anyone elses blocks or allow any transactions in his blocks.  Since Elgius had a much higher hashrate then the rest of the network, he was successful and the network stalled.

For Terracoin (TRC) a single person with a bitcoin ASIC starts mining and causes the difficulty to fluctuate wildly (first difficulty calculation method) or causes it to go up and stay up (second difficulty calculation method).  That person had over 50% of the hashpower and could have done much more damage (and still can if they want to).  They could mine their blocks exclusively, ignoreing any blocks found by anyone else, thus getting all the block rewards, excluding others transactions, and doing double spends at will.

re-using the same hashing algorithm sounds like a good idea, it takes less effort, you don't have to worry about introducing new bugs, and you can take advantage of all the optimized software/hardware to get your hashrate up.  However, an attacker has access to the same software/hardware that you do, may already have a lot of it, and, often has a vested interest in a different coin succeeding so have a reason to use those resources to attack a new chain.

This is certainly true for sha256 and is mostly likely true for scrypt now (if not, certainly when scrypt fpga's come out it will by).


the problem isn't the algo, sha256 or Scrypt, the problem in this case is figuring out how to start a new coin in a 'coin aware' environment. Bitcoin started before anyone understood it, Litecoin in a sense too entered into a much quieter crypto market. Enterning now takes a heck of a lot more. Give it time. These things work themselves out.

Keep in mind I mean this respectfully since obviously you've done more then 99.999% of people here for crypto currency, regardless if I disagree.

The problem is definitely the algo. I know you eventually want ASIC's but you need to build up the network hash rate to a point where it doesn't massively change it. That's why CPU > GPU > FPGA > ASIC works well as it's a gradual increase. It's also the natural progression of $ investment. I assure you, you can use the most obscure algorithm and people will build ASICs for it once the dollar value makes sense for doing so. The thing is - this will only occur when the network and corresponding hashrate is sufficiently mature.  Jumping on the SHA256 bandwagon means that more cost effective powerful technologies (ASICs) can dump on your chain whenever it's profitable killing you because you haven't had time to mature the coin yet.

Secondly, you shouldn't be counting on the same algo as a method of enticing people into your coin, simply because it's a 'coin aware' environment. You should be focusing on some actual significant differences in the coin, with better features etc. If there is no difference between say BTC and altcoinX why the hell should there be another one? It just dilutes the cryptocoin market for no gain. If your coin is actually superior, with better features, people will come regardless of the algorithm. There is zero reason to use SHA256.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 02:20:31 AM
Everyone mine TRC!

It is on BTC-e now and has a good exchange rate - and is normally a lightning fast coin!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: BitzMD on April 08, 2013, 02:26:29 AM
So in summary what is the consensus, will the stalled coins be confirmed anytime soon?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 08, 2013, 02:28:09 AM
So in summary what is the consensus, will the stalled coins be confirmed anytime soon?

Magic Eight Ball says "Hell no". Over eight hours to find a block on Coinotron... Unless something magical happens.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Trading on April 08, 2013, 03:14:13 AM
The market takes care of most things. Even if transactions stay very slow until the problem is fixed and prevented, high difficulty might support terracoin's price, because it obviously will limit the money supply. Lets remember that there are only about 2,032,260 terracoins (it's not like litecoin that has about 16,490,000 or PPcoin with more than 27,000,000; make no confusion, I like these coins very much too). The price went up too much for high difficulty to be a serious threat. Right now, slowness of transfers is even supporting the price, because is preventing traders to sell at btc-e the coins bought at vircurex. No doubt, when they all arrive, that will put pressure on the price. But many (including yours truly) are waiting that to buy thousands of cheap terracoins.
Will the high difficulty drive away some miners? Perhaps. But I doubt that, because scarcity and its consequences on expectations of future prices will have their weight. The fact that many terracoin miners have many terracoins will also force them to keep mining to support the coin. Namecoin has much more serious problems of revenue, but despite that it is still kicking. Most people will support terracoin because of its value even if for more than a reason the slowness of transfers last or kept occurring.
If this price lasts, you will see places accepting terracoin popping up, including, for the best or the worst, a "Terramit" and a "Terra Road". At 0.008 btcs, one terracoin has more value than the green bag (1.38 USDs, with BTC at 173 usd).


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Nolo on April 08, 2013, 03:20:59 AM
The market takes care of most things. Even if transactions stay very slow until the problem is fixed and prevented, high difficulty might support terracoin's price, because it obviously will limit the money supply. Lets remember that there are only about 2,032,260 terracoins (it's not like litecoin that has about 16,490,000 or PPcoin with more than 27,000,000; make no confusion, I like these coins very much too). The price went up too much for high difficulty to be a serious threat. Right now, slowness of transfers is even supporting the price, because is preventing traders to sell at btc-e the coins bought at vircurex. No doubt, when they all arrive, that will put pressure on the price. But many (including yours truly) are waiting that to buy thousands of cheap terracoins.
Will the high difficulty drive away some miners? Perhaps. But I doubt that, because scarcity and its consequences on expectations of future prices will have their weight. The fact that many terracoin miners have many terracoins will also force them to keep mining to support the coin. Namecoin has much more serious problems of revenue, but despite that it is still kicking. Most people will support terracoin because of its value even if for more than a reason the slowness of transfers last or kept occurring.
If this price lasts, you will see places accepting terracoin popping up, including, for the best or the worst, a "Terramit" and a "Terra Road". At 0.008 btcs, one terracoin has more value than the green bag (1.38 USDs, with BTC at 173 usd).

+1.  TRC is an excellent coin, and once this little hiccup gets sorted out, I expect more adoption. 


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 03:52:17 AM
If anyone wants to help TRC in its hour of need please, please mine it for a little while while they get the show back on the road!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: roy7 on April 08, 2013, 03:58:02 AM
Is there a reason coins can't just have the reward adjusted dynamically instead of the difficulty of finding a new block with a static reward? Then blocks can keep flowing quickly for transactions, and just the new block reward go up/down based on the desired new coin generation rate.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 03:58:41 AM
Is there a reason coins can't just have the reward adjusted dynamically instead of the difficulty of finding a new block with a static reward? Then blocks can keep flowing quickly for transactions, and just the new block reward go up/down based on the desired new coin generation rate.

Yes I think they are working on it


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Naelr on April 08, 2013, 10:15:46 AM
I wanna help Terracoin out of this ordeal.. I can't find a wallet client anywhere (only online one just don't trust that) because coinotron won't let me create an account I was going to mine p2pool but I need a client... can anyone point me in the right direction?

Naelr


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: MessyCoin on April 08, 2013, 10:23:47 AM
I wanna help Terracoin out of this ordeal.. I can't find a wallet client anywhere (only online one just don't trust that) because coinotron won't let me create an account I was going to mine p2pool but I need a client... can anyone point me in the right direction?

The official windows binaries are at http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/) :)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Naelr on April 08, 2013, 10:25:24 AM
thanks sir!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 10:30:47 AM
Official client with upgrade available here http://terracoin.org/news/

Difficulty is readjusting in a few hours and the network will make a full recovery!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: goemon888 on April 08, 2013, 10:42:23 AM
Hi..
I have some Trc unconfirmed from Vircurex.. (20 hour ago) i need wait?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 08, 2013, 10:52:32 AM
Hi..
I have some Trc unconfirmed from Vircurex.. (20 hour ago) i need wait?

network lacks miners right now.
yes, just be patient, or help mining a little bit if you can :)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 03:47:13 PM
Diff is going to drop very soon, miners will jump on, patch to adjust difficulty will have worked. TRC's back  8)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 08, 2013, 03:50:53 PM
Diff is going to drop very soon, miners will jump on, patch to adjust difficulty will have worked. TRC's back  8)

By very soon you mean three days, right?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 03:52:59 PM
Diff is going to drop very soon, miners will jump on, patch to adjust difficulty will have worked. TRC's back  8)

By very soon you mean three days, right?

I heard six hours.. but if it's three days it's better than never!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: CryptoJunky on April 08, 2013, 04:02:39 PM
Diff is going to drop very soon, miners will jump on, patch to adjust difficulty will have worked. TRC's back  8)

By very soon you mean three days, right?

I heard six hours.. but if it's three days it's better than never!

The amount of time until the next diff adjustment will be dependent on just how much hashing power gets back onto TRC. If more people get back on TRC it will be shorter, if not, longer. If you hold any TRC it would probably be a good idea to help it out with a bit of mining power and help speed up the difficulty readjustment.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: psybits on April 08, 2013, 04:04:03 PM
Diff is going to drop very soon, miners will jump on, patch to adjust difficulty will have worked. TRC's back  8)

By very soon you mean three days, right?

I heard six hours.. but if it's three days it's better than never!

The amount of time until the next diff adjustment will be dependent on just how much hashing power gets back onto TRC. If more people get back on TRC it will be shorter, if not, longer. If you hold any TRC it would probably be a good idea to help it out with a bit of mining power and help speed up the difficulty readjustment.

Yes, anyone holding TRC should be mining like a madman!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Naelr on April 09, 2013, 02:44:00 AM
Diff is going to drop very soon, miners will jump on, patch to adjust difficulty will have worked. TRC's back  8)

By very soon you mean three days, right?

I heard six hours.. but if it's three days it's better than never!

The amount of time until the next diff adjustment will be dependent on just how much hashing power gets back onto TRC. If more people get back on TRC it will be shorter, if not, longer. If you hold any TRC it would probably be a good idea to help it out with a bit of mining power and help speed up the difficulty readjustment.

Yes, anyone holding TRC should be mining like a madman!

Throwing 1.6  G/hash at it right now!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: CryptoJunky on April 09, 2013, 02:52:17 AM
Naelr,

Welcome to the Terracoin recovery effort!


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Naelr on April 09, 2013, 03:06:30 AM
Naelr,

Welcome to the Terracoin recovery effort!

Hope I can help... have a few BTC invested... would like to see it turn around.

Naelr


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: jubalix on April 09, 2013, 10:22:08 AM
I HAVE SHOUTED THIS TO CRAZY RABBIT OUT THREADS ON IT AND LEFT FOR DEV AT GITHUB

JUST ADOPT BTC RETARGETING-- BTYE COIN HAS PROVEN THIS IS ASIC PROOF AS THEY HAD MORE HASH THAN TRC POINTED AT THEM AND THEY ARE FINE !!!!!!

Even as an interim solution this works






Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: jubalix on April 09, 2013, 10:28:07 AM
Even as an interim solution this works


Not really. ASIC miners would jump on Terracoin for 2016 blocks and then leave = absolute catastrophy for those who would stay!

So how did BYTE SUREVIVE ASICS????

They had more hash pointed at them than TRC


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: Impaler on April 09, 2013, 10:44:19 AM
FRC recovered from it's hash-rate spike and ASICs werent involved as it occoured before they hit the market.  Rates are now a bit faster then desired but only by about double and hash-rates looking stable at 100 GH/s, so unless something else happens we should have a modest difficulty adjustment and be ok.  Though we are working on improving the difficulty responsiveness in an upcoming patch to prevent any possible repeat.

Could you go into the PPC difficulty methodology, I'm not familiar with it.  I take it TRC and obviously the ByteCoin clone used the original BitCoin 2016 block re-adjustment schedule which I think we can all agree is inadequate for alt-coins (and it's probably not ideal for BTC either).


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: VforVictory on April 09, 2013, 10:57:14 AM
I HAVE SHOUTED THIS TO CRAZY RABBIT OUT THREADS ON IT AND LEFT FOR DEV AT GITHUB

JUST ADOPT BTC RETARGETING-- BTYE COIN HAS PROVEN THIS IS ASIC PROOF AS THEY HAD MORE HASH THAN TRC POINTED AT THEM AND THEY ARE FINE !!!!!!

Even as an interim solution this works







Bytecoin is the exact same, bloody thing as Bitcoin, and it won't survive ASICs either.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: macbook-air on April 09, 2013, 12:10:36 PM
I HAVE SHOUTED THIS TO CRAZY RABBIT OUT THREADS ON IT AND LEFT FOR DEV AT GITHUB

JUST ADOPT BTC RETARGETING-- BTYE COIN HAS PROVEN THIS IS ASIC PROOF AS THEY HAD MORE HASH THAN TRC POINTED AT THEM AND THEY ARE FINE !!!!!!

Even as an interim solution this works






I do not know if you are old enough remember what happened to Namecoin in late 2011. Adopt BTC retargeting does not solve anything.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: spacegoat on April 09, 2013, 12:22:20 PM
but implementing Ppc retargeting will help?  can somebody explain this to me>?

I am reading PPC's whitepaper and just having a bit of a hard time understanding how it works.  and how its quicker difficulty retargeting is effective against asics...

is there some way to implode asics that try messing with the coin?  like send a fractalizing number scheme into the asic and fry that mugg.  and warn all asics not to even think about it. 

is anything like that possible?


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: medicine on April 09, 2013, 01:35:44 PM
After 47 hours I just received my latest Terracoin transfer.   Very happy of course that Terracoin is recovering.

How many days do you think it will be until most people forget this incident.  At the pace these digital currencies move I bet it won't be long.

Lets see what happens to the price over the next week.



Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: seleme on April 09, 2013, 01:36:10 PM
Massive fail on BTC-e, 0.035 currently. I made 15% manipulating on it yesterday but lost 20% exiting at .0403 today.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: spacegoat on April 09, 2013, 01:38:56 PM
i have $3500 stuck in trc transit, i bought at 0077.  this has angered me and sparked an idea.  I will share it soon.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: MaddestScientist on April 09, 2013, 01:59:30 PM
Stay tuned!  :)
i have $3500 stuck in trc transit, i bought at 0077.  this has angered me and sparked an idea.  I will share it soon.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 09, 2013, 02:06:20 PM
Well relatively to the USD dollar it hasn't gone down as much. One can expect there to be great excitement concerning BTC breaking 200 dollars. All the Alt coins took a big hit.
I think when the new fix gets put in place things will get back to normal. Litecoin also has had it's dark days. 


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: bushstar on April 09, 2013, 02:37:35 PM
15 blocks down and 15 more to go. Good to see that this is still ticking along. I thought it might end up doing a Freicoin and get left by miners in a three month lurch. Rabbit makes a good point, with the rising BTC the fall against the dollar is not actually that great.

When TRC hits the bottom I might pick some up just for fun. With confirms hitting again I expect we might see a fair few people cashing out.


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: celkaris on April 09, 2013, 02:39:02 PM
the end is near : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=171336.0

:)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: FJBourne on April 09, 2013, 02:42:01 PM
great news!  ;D


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: poriks on April 10, 2013, 03:53:32 PM
My wallet is now in sync.

Found this news:

Build 0.1.3-30 Available
Terracoin 0.1.3-30 is now available ; this is an URGENT, mandatory update.
http://www.terracoin.org/news/


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: seleme on April 10, 2013, 03:56:30 PM
Yep, last block is mined :)


Title: Re: Terracoin Dead or Dying ?
Post by: SRoulette on April 12, 2013, 06:45:37 AM
we saw our TRC logs come alive yesterday :D

TRC games back online.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: rav3n_pl on April 12, 2013, 09:02:47 PM
TRC is gone from gitub, all binaries are gone from sourceforge, WGO?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Nolo on April 12, 2013, 09:09:40 PM
TRC is gone from gitub, all binaries are gone from sourceforge, WGO?

Devs could be about to release a new version.  They've been pretty active lately.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Sunny King on April 12, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
Edit: I do see the github source still there.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: dreamwatcher on April 12, 2013, 09:22:18 PM
TRC is gone from gitub, all binaries are gone from sourceforge, WGO?

I have gone ahead and created a new repository and uploaded the latest source source code just in case these does not turn out well. If the developers have dropped the project, I would be willing to put tpgther a group of volunteers to continue the project. I think it would be a huge waste to abandon TRC after it has made it to a major exchange.

I will change this repo to a fork as I wanted to look into some things in TRC anyway.

https://github.com/Hartland/terracoin


Yep, source forge is also up with a 3 hr old version.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/terracoin/files/SatoshiClone/


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: rav3n_pl on April 12, 2013, 09:27:25 PM
We really WANT fork it?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Sunny King on April 12, 2013, 09:30:02 PM
That's kinda strange, did the dev delete the repository and restored it again?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: FJBourne on April 12, 2013, 09:32:14 PM
sorry, I think I was just looking at the master branch files

https://github.com/terracoin/terracoin


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: dreamwatcher on April 12, 2013, 09:32:32 PM
We really WANT fork it?

Not that kind of fork... :D

Github fork, allows me to make changes in the code and submit pull requests to the developers of Terracoin. It also allows me to pull in the latest commits into my repository.

In other words, it is a development tool to help Terracoin. I have no intention of overriding the Terracoin developers, and forking the chain.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: FJBourne on April 12, 2013, 09:35:49 PM
Very strange the github is deleted though, dev just sent this out 2 hours ago:

"Hi,

terracoin build 0.1.3-33 is now available for download at our github &
sourceforge repositories, windows binary builds were just uploaded to
sourceforge.

this build addresses some issues in the difficulty targetting algorithm,
currently caused by heavy-armed miners controlling higher hashing power
than the network itself ; it will be mandatory on block 104290.

This build will also remove the real low difficulty values recently seen
on the network, following one of those hashing bursts"

thoughts?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: rav3n_pl on April 12, 2013, 09:39:58 PM
Cant connect to network?
Getting "connection refused" all the time
Also my log says version v0.1.2-65 form latest git? VERY odd.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: celkaris on April 12, 2013, 09:41:49 PM
this thread created unbelievable market activity, i'm impressed !
(not in the good way though)


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: dreamwatcher on April 12, 2013, 09:51:22 PM
Very strange the github is deleted though, dev just sent this out 2 hours ago:

"Hi,

terracoin build 0.1.3-33 is now available for download at our github &
sourceforge repositories, windows binary builds were just uploaded to
sourceforge.

this build addresses some issues in the difficulty targetting algorithm,
currently caused by heavy-armed miners controlling higher hashing power
than the network itself ; it will be mandatory on block 104290.

This build will also remove the real low difficulty values recently seen
on the network, following one of those hashing bursts"

thoughts?

We will see.


I am still of the opinion that the ALT SHA-256 coins are going to have come up with a solution to deal with ASICs' taking control of their chains. Some kind of tweak that will cripple their efficiency when mining the alt-chains.

The PPC difficulty targeting looks promising,  and as a rule of thumb I recommend it to anybody thinking of starting a new coin and if possible to implement into existing SHA-256 alt coins. (Freicoin and Bytecoin, you are still in a good position to change, no major exchanges yet  ;)  )

However, we have yet to see what happens when ASIC becomes more prevalent and the possibility of multiple ASIC attacks at the same time could occur.

I think an anti-ASIC tweak will still be needed.



Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: dreamwatcher on April 12, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Cant connect to network?
Getting "connection refused" all the time
Also my log says version v0.1.2-65 form latest git? VERY odd.


Add the cryptocoinexplorer IP to your node list, I always keep it updated and there are always plenty of nodes connected (For example, it has 53 nodes connected now)

In your terracoin.conf file add:

addnode=84.200.84.74


Of course now I have to update..... :D

Add: I also keep a Terracoin testnet daemon running at the same site.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: dreamwatcher on April 12, 2013, 10:34:33 PM
Cant connect to network?
Getting "connection refused" all the time
Also my log says version v0.1.2-65 form latest git? VERY odd.


I just updated the explorer site with a clone from the Terracoin github.

Opening line of the debug log:

Code:
Terracoin version v0.8.0.0-unk-beta (2013-04-12 19:55:04 +0200)

When I run the previous version:

Code:
Terracoin version v0.1.2-51-gd147fa7-beta (2013-04-09 20:48:28 +0200)

So maybe try pulling it again??


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: FJBourne on April 12, 2013, 10:35:27 PM
I just dumped all my TRC  :-[


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Walter Rothbard on April 12, 2013, 11:25:31 PM
I just dumped all my TRC  :-[


I just bought.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: rav3n_pl on April 12, 2013, 11:26:11 PM
I just dumped all my TRC  :-[

I`ll wait for 0.01 or more ;]


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Nolo on April 13, 2013, 03:05:29 AM
I just dumped all my TRC  :-[

I`ll wait for 0.01 or more ;]

Smart money is buying. Look at the massive amounts of coins some people are trying to buy at cheap prices on btc-e. 


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: SRoulette on April 13, 2013, 03:35:21 AM
Come celebrate the TRC Revival at our casino's expense: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175341.0


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: bit-fxtrader on April 14, 2013, 07:33:57 PM
hmmm confused? price doubled but its now 4 times less profitable to mine trc? did difficulty go up?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: mr_random on April 14, 2013, 07:41:21 PM
I guess now it's fixed people think it's undervalued relative to where it was before the ASIC attacks.

Will be interesting to see how it handles the ASICs this time around...


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Remember remember the 5th of November on April 14, 2013, 07:42:35 PM
hmmm confused? price doubled but its now 4 times less profitable to mine trc? did difficulty go up?
If you look at it in terms of TRC->BTC. If TRC is to be used as currency, you shouldn't look at it's price as per BTC.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: bit-fxtrader on April 14, 2013, 07:45:11 PM
hmmm confused? price doubled but its now 4 times less profitable to mine trc? did difficulty go up?
If you look at it in terms of TRC->BTC. If TRC is to be used as currency, you shouldn't look at it's price as per BTC.

was considering mining trc but now its half as profitable as btc unless websites wrong


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: psybits on April 14, 2013, 08:01:33 PM
TRC is now skyrocketing on BTC-e  ;)


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: mr_random on April 14, 2013, 08:38:38 PM
How is TRC holding up with it's new patch guys? Want to know if it's safe to buy some...

hmmm confused? price doubled but its now 4 times less profitable to mine trc? did difficulty go up?
If you look at it in terms of TRC->BTC. If TRC is to be used as currency, you shouldn't look at it's price as per BTC.

was considering mining trc but now its half as profitable as btc unless websites wrong

Dustcoin has TRC at 500% profitability.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: psybits on April 14, 2013, 09:09:32 PM
Diff has been fixed, network is looking healthy and has been repaired, I think things are looking up for TRC  ;)


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: bit-fxtrader on April 14, 2013, 09:13:41 PM
How is TRC holding up with it's new patch guys? Want to know if it's safe to buy some...

hmmm confused? price doubled but its now 4 times less profitable to mine trc? did difficulty go up?
If you look at it in terms of TRC->BTC. If TRC is to be used as currency, you shouldn't look at it's price as per BTC.

was considering mining trc but now its half as profitable as btc unless websites wrong

Dustcoin has TRC at 500% profitability.


what? i see 50%,,,can anyone mining confirm this


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: mr_random on April 14, 2013, 09:19:50 PM
How is TRC holding up with it's new patch guys? Want to know if it's safe to buy some...

hmmm confused? price doubled but its now 4 times less profitable to mine trc? did difficulty go up?
If you look at it in terms of TRC->BTC. If TRC is to be used as currency, you shouldn't look at it's price as per BTC.

was considering mining trc but now its half as profitable as btc unless websites wrong

Dustcoin has TRC at 500% profitability.


what? i see 50%,,,can anyone mining confirm this

It's gone back down to 50%.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: spacegoat on April 14, 2013, 09:52:25 PM
the way they now handle asics is oscillating the difficulty, so the profitibility will also oscillate every few minutes.  so its not broken, just truly unlike any other coin now...


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: pyra-proxy on April 14, 2013, 09:55:51 PM
the way they now handle asics is oscillating the difficulty, so the profitibility will also oscillate every few minutes.  so its not broken, just truly unlike any other coin now...

After seeing several days of data on it now I feel like this is the best difficulty algo I've seen for the small alts combating wildly fluctuating hash rates... kind of impressed actually....


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: ImI on April 14, 2013, 09:56:44 PM

How often does the difficulty readjust?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: spacegoat on April 15, 2013, 07:27:47 AM
the way they now handle asics is oscillating the difficulty, so the profitibility will also oscillate every few minutes.  so its not broken, just truly unlike any other coin now...

After seeing several days of data on it now I feel like this is the best difficulty algo I've seen for the small alts combating wildly fluctuating hash rates... kind of impressed actually....

dude me too. everyone doesn't recognize what's going on with the swinging difficulty, so they say, "aw its still broken!"  but if you can grasp how they've implemented asic invulnerability... its ingenius, I'm impressed too. 


we're getting hit with plenty of asics and we're not lost in suspended animation are we?  I'm now on their mailing list,, and latest news is that they are relieved a solutioin has been implemented, but mention that in the future there will be even more fine tunings done on future patches to make terracoin into a mercedes or a bmw, or no more appropriately a finely tuned nissan


I gave terracoin alot of shit cuz I lost alot of moolah in the crash, but it made me really sink my teeth into the meat of what they are up to and I believe they are making history right now as the first alternate sha 256 coin to hash out the 51% attack vulnerability. 

so terracoin might be heralded as a great experiment for that,and provide bitcoin viable solutions for if it ever runs into 51% attacks.

i'm sure the price will stabilize further because the coin itself is usable.  and before it crashed it was at .014  and going up.  so I bet you we see it breach its old numbers with its new fix.

the only thing I worry about is the triple asic guy out there who mined like 20,000 TRC. 

but it seems as though the market is hungry enough to even eat that...
let's see what that might mean if he sold that suddenly, 20,000 x .01 = 200 BTC... not too bad actually.  maybe he has more sense than to dump it all at once and slowly introduce it especially after the price is up to .02... 

I don't know, I'm just stoked that I am starting to see my mom's money.  once I make it back, I'll be pulling out and investing in this market with my own money only guys :D


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Sunny King on April 15, 2013, 07:43:09 AM
the way they now handle asics is oscillating the difficulty, so the profitibility will also oscillate every few minutes.  so its not broken, just truly unlike any other coin now...

After seeing several days of data on it now I feel like this is the best difficulty algo I've seen for the small alts combating wildly fluctuating hash rates... kind of impressed actually....

dude me too. everyone doesn't recognize what's going on with the swinging difficulty, so they say, "aw its still broken!"  but if you can grasp how they've implemented asic invulnerability... its ingenius, I'm impressed too. 


Before everyone gets carried away with the price jump, I would like to remind people that the drama started with an attempt at fixing the oscillating difficulty between 3k ~10k.

Now it oscillates between 5k ~ 50k+.

It's actually worse off than the original adjustment. If the oscillation wasn't a problem then why fix it and cause all this drama over the week?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: jubalix on April 15, 2013, 07:55:36 AM
the way they now handle asics is oscillating the difficulty, so the profitibility will also oscillate every few minutes.  so its not broken, just truly unlike any other coin now...

After seeing several days of data on it now I feel like this is the best difficulty algo I've seen for the small alts combating wildly fluctuating hash rates... kind of impressed actually....

dude me too. everyone doesn't recognize what's going on with the swinging difficulty, so they say, "aw its still broken!"  but if you can grasp how they've implemented asic invulnerability... its ingenius, I'm impressed too. 


Before everyone gets carried away with the price jump, I would like to remind people that the drama started with an attempt at fixing the oscillating difficulty between 3k ~10k.

Now it oscillates between 5k ~ 50k+.

It's actually worse off than the original adjustment. If the oscillation wasn't a problem then why fix it and cause all this drama over the week?

Sunny was it not the oscillation but the ability to deal make quick readjustment to deal with the oscillation, thus if the readjustment can be made quickly in spite of even larger oscillation is that not good or am I missing something here????


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Sunny King on April 15, 2013, 08:04:28 AM
Sunny was it not the oscillation but the ability to deal make quick readjustment to deal with the oscillation, thus if the readjustment can be made quickly in spite of even larger oscillation is that not good or am I missing something here????

In the original adjustment oscillation is limited to 4x, so you would have about 4 minute spacing in the slower half. The currently adjustment has similar or worse behavior, reaching over 20-minute on the slow side. Regardless a smart miner can still exploit this to greatly increase his profitability, probably even more so than with the original adjustment.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: jubalix on April 15, 2013, 08:19:41 AM
Sunny was it not the oscillation but the ability to deal make quick readjustment to deal with the oscillation, thus if the readjustment can be made quickly in spite of even larger oscillation is that not good or am I missing something here????

In the original adjustment oscillation is limited to 4x, so you would have about 4 minute spacing in the slower half. The currently adjustment has similar or worse behavior, reaching over 20-minute on the slow side. Regardless a smart miner can still exploit this to greatly increase his profitability, probably even more so than with the original adjustment.

So your saying the miner can still block up the block chain for days when they jump off??? like they did before....?



Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: shivansps on April 15, 2013, 08:39:24 AM
TRC diff when up from 58K to 175k in... 20mins? in 3 jumps.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: celkaris on April 15, 2013, 08:40:37 AM
TRC diff when up from 58K to 175k in... 20mins? in 3 jumps.

coinotron back online @ 700+Gh/s


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: spacegoat on April 15, 2013, 08:55:49 AM
Sunny was it not the oscillation but the ability to deal make quick readjustment to deal with the oscillation, thus if the readjustment can be made quickly in spite of even larger oscillation is that not good or am I missing something here????

In the original adjustment oscillation is limited to 4x, so you would have about 4 minute spacing in the slower half. The currently adjustment has similar or worse behavior, reaching over 20-minute on the slow side. Regardless a smart miner can still exploit this to greatly increase his profitability, probably even more so than with the original adjustment.

So your saying the miner can still block up the block chain for days when they jump off??? like they did before....?



no it would only last for over 20 minutes.  the diff adjuster keeps the transactions moving, but leaves a slight vulnerability for mining exploits


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: shivansps on April 15, 2013, 09:38:31 AM
from 58k to 175k, them to 5k, then to 44k, them 88k, them 79k, all in... 1 hour? this is just stupid.

Next jump its gone be reduced... i see at least 300GHash/s moving from TRC to PPC when the diff is high and them back when it drops.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: jubalix on April 15, 2013, 10:28:49 AM
Sunny was it not the oscillation but the ability to deal make quick readjustment to deal with the oscillation, thus if the readjustment can be made quickly in spite of even larger oscillation is that not good or am I missing something here????

In the original adjustment oscillation is limited to 4x, so you would have about 4 minute spacing in the slower half. The currently adjustment has similar or worse behavior, reaching over 20-minute on the slow side. Regardless a smart miner can still exploit this to greatly increase his profitability, probably even more so than with the original adjustment.

So your saying the miner can still block up the block chain for days when they jump off??? like they did before....?



no it would only last for over 20 minutes.  the diff adjuster keeps the transactions moving, but leaves a slight vulnerability for mining exploits

so how does this fit in with SunnyKings view this is worse than before????


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: roy7 on April 15, 2013, 01:20:08 PM
Before everyone gets carried away with the price jump, I would like to remind people that the drama started with an attempt at fixing the oscillating difficulty between 3k ~10k.

Now it oscillates between 5k ~ 50k+.

It's actually worse off than the original adjustment. If the oscillation wasn't a problem then why fix it and cause all this drama over the week?

It used to oscillate down to like 50 difficulty. Literally, under 100. So then blocks start dropping every few seconds. And then skyrocket so high noone could get a block to add for a really long time once the big miners all pulled back out. With the new 5K floor at least the lowest drops are more reasonable, and difficulty comes down faster as needed if miners bail.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 15, 2013, 01:26:40 PM
the way they now handle asics is oscillating the difficulty, so the profitibility will also oscillate every few minutes.  so its not broken, just truly unlike any other coin now...

After seeing several days of data on it now I feel like this is the best difficulty algo I've seen for the small alts combating wildly fluctuating hash rates... kind of impressed actually....

dude me too. everyone doesn't recognize what's going on with the swinging difficulty, so they say, "aw its still broken!"  but if you can grasp how they've implemented asic invulnerability... its ingenius, I'm impressed too. 


Before everyone gets carried away with the price jump, I would like to remind people that the drama started with an attempt at fixing the oscillating difficulty between 3k ~10k.

Now it oscillates between 5k ~ 50k+.

It's actually worse off than the original adjustment. If the oscillation wasn't a problem then why fix it and cause all this drama over the week?

+1


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: gyverlb on April 15, 2013, 02:11:17 PM
Before everyone gets carried away with the price jump, I would like to remind people that the drama started with an attempt at fixing the oscillating difficulty between 3k ~10k.

Now it oscillates between 5k ~ 50k+.

It's actually worse off than the original adjustment. If the oscillation wasn't a problem then why fix it and cause all this drama over the week?

It used to oscillate down to like 50 difficulty. Literally, under 100. So then blocks start dropping every few seconds. And then skyrocket so high noone could get a block to add for a really long time once the big miners all pulled back out. With the new 5K floor at least the lowest drops are more reasonable, and difficulty comes down faster as needed if miners bail.

I didn't see under 100 myself but I can confirm it went into the 300s. So the 5k minimum is helping stabilize it a bit.

Still... after hoppable pools Terracoin is the first hoppable coin :)


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: roy7 on April 15, 2013, 05:29:54 PM
I didn't see under 100 myself but I can confirm it went into the 300s. So the 5k minimum is helping stabilize it a bit.

Still... after hoppable pools Terracoin is the first hoppable coin :)

Here was a fun couple minutes. ;)

http://www.cryptocoinexplorer.com:3750/chain/Terracoin?hi=103008&count=20


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: efx on April 15, 2013, 05:42:32 PM
It's better, someone with many gh/s is still screwing around though.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: bit-fxtrader on April 21, 2013, 09:53:10 PM
so its been  a few days now, would you say that terracoin mining is more profitable then bitcoin mining? Speaking overall+including all fees and possible downtime from coin switching?

Looking at mining charts it looks to be slightly better on average but I have no idea if that translates into more $ as you still have to cash in the coins etc....Not sure how easy/how the fees are on TRC vs bitcoin


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: SRoulette on April 22, 2013, 01:57:59 AM
We finally saw some long unconfirmed bets get processed yesterday :)

Our own tests against our casino show  TRC operating normally once again, well done terracoin devs - it was a bumpy ride  there for a bit.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: RassluL on December 10, 2013, 03:51:28 PM
Hey guys. Now terracoin is really going to be alive. Just look:

Hiazma games, company which develops marine online-shooter SeaCraft (seacraft.sc (http://seacraft.sc)), recently announced that it started to receive payments in cryptocurrencies.

HG develops online-shooter SeaCraft and iOS-game Dominator. The games will be released in first half of 2014, and sales of early access will start in Steam on 30 January.  The game received approval from Steam-community (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=110997073 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=110997073)), where about 70 thousands gamers are waiting for its launch. About 15 thousands people registered on forum for taking part in beta-testing , which next step is planned on 18 December.

Shortly before, the company published a report (http://forum.seacraft.sc/en/index.php/topic/679-new-way-to-get-the-seacraft-%E2%80%93-crypto-currencies/#entry2992 (http://forum.seacraft.sc/en/index.php/topic/679-new-way-to-get-the-seacraft-%E2%80%93-crypto-currencies/#entry2992)), that any player can now purchase a game set for cryptocurrencies - increasingly popular way of making payments. HG says, that they did it to support development of modern technologies.
In the short explanation for our site, HG company representative said that the current solution due to a request from the users who are willing and able to use more actively cryptocurrencies in everyday life. Community of people using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies daily expanding and it needs a market where you can make payments without fear in honest transactions and legally. To facilitate these goals, the developers of SeaCraft are thinking about special bonuses for those players who will make the payment in cryptocurrencies.

Those willing to use the new method of payment undoubtedly exist, because even before the start of open testing  several hundred sets of the game has been sold on 15 thousand dollars, and the game itself, overcoming many difficulties on the way to release, could become a competitor of marine online game by Wargaming. We hope that the company will be faithful to its promises even after the game release.

At the moment, anyone can buy the game sets for one of the four cryptocurrencies:
Bitcoin, Litecoin, Novacoin, Terracoin.

And HG promises that this list may be extended, but not shortened. Why do they choose this list of currencies? Why it is not limited with only Bitcoin? Is it planned to hold micro-payments in cryptocurrencies and how they will receive funds? These and other questions will be sent to HG, and we will publish their response in further news.

Source: http://investtalk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=16098


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: RassluL on December 12, 2013, 11:58:35 AM
The popular russian hosting company datafly.ru (http://datafly.ru), representing some of the most competitive prices on the market , announced receiving payment in cryptocurrencies.
Now it's possible to buy a domain, hosting and order a dedicated server immediately with several popular cryptocurrencies .
The company announced that the commission is set at 5 %, and exchange rates are used from BTC-e.com. Later reception of the payments will be optimized in order to reduce the commission.
List of accepted currencies :
Bitcoin
Litecoin
Terracoin
Namecoin

The company says that it may add an English version of the site, if the request will come from English-speaking users.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: MrGoods on December 13, 2013, 01:41:32 PM
You can order text services for cryptocurrencies (TRC included).
It is in the news on site of CP " SEONEST " (http://www.seonest.ru/). The organization carries out orders on writing original texts , translations from foreign languages, filling with content sites and online stores. Payments for the text content can be done with several cryptocurrencies (btc, ltc, trc, nmc).
The rate of exchange used from btc-e.com, and the commission is 3 % of the current rate.
The company is one of the industry leaders in filling sites with a quality content, because processing office staff is carefully controlled to meet the highest standards , making it difficult to achieve, when you hire a freelancer. For example, you can order an urgent translation news about bitcoin from Russian to English or buy texts to promote you site in search engines.


Q:
I am struggling to come up with a situation that would need these services
Can you give us an example of a typical use case?

A:
Have you heard about SEO (search engine optimization)? If you want to see your company in the high terms of search engines, it is necessary to promote the site with special texts which contain special keywords.
And that is the area of their work. You can order any texts to promote your site.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: RassluL on December 26, 2013, 10:15:21 AM
Portal investtalk.ru starts a straightforward investment analysis of crypto-currencies. Winners of competition “The best private investor” on Moscow exchange took their parts in review creation.

http://investtalk.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=16118&st=0#entry46120

TRC included.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Marty19 on January 12, 2014, 12:49:38 AM
iSpace Mining SHA256 Pools - Mining & Transaction Fee's 0% for the rest of January so why not try us out at http://ispace.co.uk

TerraCoin pool at http://trc.ispace.co.uk


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Green Lantern on January 12, 2014, 10:50:42 PM
do exchange rates for terracoin in json format exist?
I need something like that: http://api.bitcoincharts.com/v1/weighted_prices.json


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Dev.Vasilkoff on March 04, 2014, 08:03:53 PM
Yes, we also believe terracoin is alive
thats why we did this https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vasilkoff.terracoinwallet
please take a look
it is done on base of https://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Marty19 on March 05, 2014, 09:14:39 AM
http://ispace.co.uk/images/ispace_logo.png

*** 0% Fees *** Stratum *** VarDiff ***

Free TerraCoin pool available at iSpace Mining Pools

http://ispace.co.uk

 :)


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: Green Lantern on March 06, 2014, 01:24:59 PM
Yes, we also believe terracoin is alive
thats why we did this https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vasilkoff.terracoinwallet
please take a look
it is done on base of https://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/

source code: https://code.google.com/p/terracoin-wallet/


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: raskul on March 29, 2014, 07:52:56 PM
Now mining me some TRC  ;D


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: triplef on May 12, 2014, 09:03:46 PM
how abotu putting your dang source in one place ? not sourforge and many others / is github good ?

how about showing us nodelist / ports etc ?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: rubenaco on June 01, 2014, 09:46:51 AM
any notice?? there are so many coins and I don't find the original thread


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: StatusSeeking on June 01, 2014, 10:16:13 AM
I think Terracoin has gotten a bit of a bad rap recently. While it isn't terribly inventive, it has been relatively well implemented save the recent hiccup.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: StatusSeeking on June 01, 2014, 10:22:29 AM
People tend to forget the sort of troubles that Litecoin and even Bitcoin underwent early on. Personally I hope to see Terracoin as at least a partial solution to fast transactions. I don't think it will 'replace' Bitcoin but rather complement it. That's not to say that this will absolutely happen, but rather that it may if we support it.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: rubenaco on June 01, 2014, 12:16:06 PM
nobody likes TRC?


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: bitcoinreactor on June 01, 2014, 09:05:12 PM
nobody likes TRC?

i still like it :)

It's one of the oldest out there still alive (i think it was the 4th after bitcoin) and with its current cheap value on exchanges you can finally get quite a lot of them.

i'm still running a public p2pool setup, now with 1% fee, going toward terracoin hosting costs (using the trc address that recently popped up at github & sourceforge) : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176424.0

I thought this could help terracoin project, but so far as no block was found by this p2pool node, nothing was donated yet.


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: rav3n_pl on June 27, 2014, 09:12:33 AM
Looks you have some bad TRC P2pool fork, see my node: http://rav3n.dtdns.net:9322/  P2pool is over 2TH power!

edit: sorry, did not see that TRC pushed some changes to Forrestv main repo.
BUT those changes are BAD!!!
Changing share period from 30 to 45sec and leaving chain_length intact will skyrocket share diff!
Also lowering spread is not good idea and leaving TARGET_LOOKBEHIND so high is wrong...
My comment on github: https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool/commit/f9063ca92818c5fb09e78fb1bfb0066994c079e8


Title: Re: Terracoin is ALLIIIIIVEEEE
Post by: elelegzet on September 09, 2017, 12:47:45 PM
 This thread is to be closed.
 I'll just add the link to the actual updated thread as long as this very thread shows up early in search:
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1364146.0