Bitcoin Forum

What will be next week,crash on Italian Banks is coming,it can be a trigger for crash on markets
similar like in 2008
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eurozone-banks-italy-montepaschi-excl-idUSKBN13Y1H0?il=0 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eurozone-banks-italy-montepaschi-excl-idUSKBN13Y1H0?il=0)

Maybe that is a reason of btc price rise

Italy is large country, banks can not crash so simple there. Italy is third largest in EU, and Italian economy is connected with whole EU countries. Plus banks in Italy is under EU central bank supervision. Check Italian economy details here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy#Economy.

I think this could be one possibility of the rising price of the bitcoin. I don't know what is going to happen with this nice country, we see a lot of stories with the title Italexit recently.

I am going to follow this story much closely.

If this realy happens that would also affect italian banks branches in my country, including my too. But somehow I think they will manage to avoid this crash and no big deal will happen.
This might influence the bi price too but at the moment some other things on the market are more influental.

I don't think that is going to happen.
That is a risk the european governments and the EZB will not take, despite everything they say in advance.
Letting those banks crash would be the same as ending the Euro, and everybody knows that.
And that is why the EZB pumps every month 80 billions into the market to buy bad credits.
If that won't help they will take other measures, but they will not let those banks fall.

I think the rise of Bitcoin is coming because of a general concern around the world, about the country's economy, I think another crisis is not far off.

i don't see the connection between the increase in value of bitcoin and this, like there was no conenction with the same thing and brexit, italy is not that big to cause some major trouble in europe and their position is not worse than greece, who in the end condoned


this is only true because Draghi is a important person among the central european bank, if it was not for me it would count much less as a country for EURO

The Italian government will most likely bail them out, it even says so in the article.
I really doubt this will have any significant effect on Bitcoin to be honest.

I am also confident that the government will not allow that the bank has ceased to exist. It will take measures to save this financial institution

There seems indeed a few banks in Italy with problems. I hope the new government will take measures to solve the problem. If not, we go to the same crisis as in 2008. If one banks goes down, it mostly brings a few other in big problems too. That should be very bad news espcially for europe but also for other countries all over the world. I don't think that a crash by a bank or some banks doesn't have an influence on the BTC price.

It is complicated,EBC told no,that s fear,so now or Italians will launch gov bailout by using tax peyers money,it is no more permited by EU legilation or thay will have to launch bail-in and use shareholders and bonds holders money,
in the backgrond we have political crisis in Italy and risng popularity of anti eu movments

today monte paschi stock wentdown 16% uni credito 7% down
look for all of that more in common with social and political movements in EU.It is enough for people to experience crisis caused by stupid,corupted politician in Brusseles.It is a way of european people thinking

you not hear in last week
about italy referendum, italy get out to EU is win
same is england, italy out EU, so next bank in italy not under EU central bank again and not get support supervision

Most often, crashes are not happening when everyone is expecting them. Italian banks are junk for sure. So are many other banks all across Europe. It's no longer the question if, but only when one of them will collapse.

When this happens, rest assured that the taxpayers will be forced to rescue all failed banks. The Central banks will intervene with freshly printed money and governments will decide to re-capitalize them. That's the world in which we live. It's on the brink of collapse, but everything is done to let the scheme run just a little longer...

ya.ya.yo!

Maybe it is but it is good that bitcoin is growing faster that is important in whole story and we are happy because bitcoin price goin up so fast and faster and faster.

The most popular slogan on both side of ocean is change and new begining
EBC help,thay can give Italy loans and after do what thay did with Greece
Problem with printed money is that thay dont exist,you cant withdraw them at atm,you cant pay them for job,etc,thay dont rally exist,whan everybody are saying it will not happens it will happens
Imagine run people run on banks in Italy,and what same like in Greece,where peopl can get 400 euro a month fromhis bank accout,almost 40%of unenployment between young people in Italy
no retirement money in Spain,The same in Portugal
Nobody take care banks people want to have good life

Yes Italy is that big, 7 times bigger than Greece economically, the third economy in the EU27.

wow, I never ear that Italy is with trouble too, looks like all EU is doomed.... I think we will have another crash, much more worse that the 2008, dont know if it will italy, but all major countrys are in trouble

This is just another shocking news. There are many banks in different countries that are also suffering from crisis and are reported to undergo recession. But this one an Italian bank from Europe, this is possibly a sign that soon crypto currency will take over and a cashless society will born.

But I am seeing another scenario, it is possible that banks will purchase bitcoin in huge amount and hold it. Then they will print paper bitcoin money that is equivalent to the amount of bitcoin they have in their treasury that way banks could survive amidst crisis.

The banks are probably going to experience a lot of bad news over the next few week,s but I don't know if there is actually going to be anything happening anytime soon.

If anything, a bailout is expected, like all other impending pieces of economic doom. There will likely be very little to come out of this, and it is doubtful there will be many lasting effects until the next total collapse (like 2008).

That was really a decent post. I like to no more about the coming Italian bank crash. Thank you so much for this post.

What I found interesting is that the European Central Bank refused to delay the matters any more and prompted the Italian government to clear their own mess by bailing out the troubled bank themselves. But if a big crash is really coming the ECB will surely step in and provide a big cash injection to stop the fall.

Bailouts have always worked like this. Spain, Ireland, Portugal, France, etc., bailed out their banks. Then when some of these countries couldn't get money on the markets due to their debt, they had to be "saved", then later the ECB finally started to buy these countries' bonds. The ECB couldn't do it before because it isn't supposed to do it, and Germany was against it.

Well you might be right about your prediction of the Italian bank crash but I bet to differ if that will have any serious impact or ramifications on BTC because the Italian central bank isn't independent of the other European Union central banks and I'm aware there are measures in
Place to check them individuals; unless the entire euro currency falls flat BTC wouldn't be affected negatively.

I just read an interesting piece in Barron's (the financial newspaper that comes out on weekends) today (Sat., USA).  The author said that at least now it is not likely that the Italian banks would crater (be destroyed), including the very weak Monte Paschi Siena bank.  They would be bailed out, and Italy always has some come of crisis or other going on.  "Business as usual."

[My *guess* is the author is understating the problem, but he is likely much more knowledgeable about Italian banks than I am.]


Perhaps from Italy or otherwise knowledgeable would advise us of the Bitcoin scene in Italy now?  Whether or not it is catching on?  BTC ATMs there?

I think this is the right way, a bailout from their government to save its banks and will not affect the citizenry. The population will be much affected here if no intervention were made.It will cause hunger,higher unemployment rate etc it has domino effect. I read before articles in Spain,greek where there are poverty incidents.

Also, hope and pray that it will not affect other country's economy.

The problem is it's not just any one country but on a global scale where these predictions are coming. I've seen the same thing said for America and many other European countries. When will people learn that all fiat is the same!

Whatever happens in 2017 I hope bitcoins go on a wild ride (up ;))!

We make so much speculation regarding bitcoins and the current financial markets of the whole world, but lets first remember that Bitcoins are not even 1% of the financial market of the whole world (or even the US). I don't think any of these are yet to be really connected with the rise of bitcoin. Probably only  partially as maybe those who distrust banks has been moving to other securities like bitcoin.

All of these banks problems, how could it occurred in the first place? Because of debt or someone corrupt? I mean for all of the banks that comes to collapse. That's why we can't really trust and saving our money there (most of it), I believe people need to divide their money into several investment including bitcoin, thinking and decide by yourself.

Maybe this is the decline of the current financial industry. Maybe we are witnessing the turn of the century. Where we will see that the financial institutions we see today will fall and the rise of decentralized currency is upon us. The whole world might shift to other securities such as bitcoin and other currencies that the government or other private entities can't control.

European politicians say that there will be no bailout. I'm pretty sure we'll see one for the Italian banks this month or sometime in 2017. It is just a question of time. They are a big risk. Not just for the European economy, but for the global economy. It they are a major risk for the further existence of the Euro currency. The taxpayer will have to rescue the banks in Italy.

   EU economy is going down fow a while. Its not just Italy, Greek story doesnt have ending, and in that time Italy and Spain was marked like next countries with upcoming economy crash. With brexit EU have just one more problem to solve in sea of other problems.
   In the end tax payers are the one who give the most, working class will have one more tax to pay, and low salaries will be even lower.

If Italy goes down, we will see a domino affect right across Europe, because they are closely linked to the economies of other countries

invested in their debt. When Greece was in trouble, a lot of other countries including Italy suffered. There are already rumors that Rome has

been putting together emergency proposals to nationalise or part-nationalise Monte dei Paschi {3rd biggest lender} ..but this will get strong

opposition from the government. As usual governments will jump in to rescue the banks... how pathetic.  ::)

For this reason banks won't crash, because they'll have an alternate solution to overcome the issue. European union avoiding to support during the hard days is to make the situation worse in the economy of the country's growth.

If you want to know what is happening in Europe,watch dollar-euro pair
euro is now on critical bottom level 1.05,if will break down we will see euro below 1 to 1 level.,it will be official begining of the end of euro currency and begining of big trouble for Germany
Bailout is not permited in EU

...

Mighty Jim Rickards (author of the brand new book The Road to Ruin, as well as other similar finance books) says that BAILOUTS will be the response, especially once the problems get really big.

A "Cyprus" can get "bailed-in" (depositors and/or bondholders pick up the tab = take the losses), not so for a huge player like Italy.

This does not mean there are no risks for depositors however.  If a small bank goes (perhaps like Monte/Siena), depositors could lose their money.  If Deutsche Bank is about to go down, they will bail it out.

If something really dangerous (to the world financial system) really happens, they will BAILOUT the banks (by QE, raw money printing or whatever).

Count on it.


EDIT:  Just hit the wires at Zero Hedge:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-11/monte-paschi-scrambles-last-minute-capital-increase-avoid-nationalization

The ECB made the problem worse because it didn't act like a central bank in the first place like the US Fed did. Buying up bonds / QE wasn't their job. Things went south very quickly and they only acted within their role. Not until Draghi delivered his 'whatever it takes' speech did they act like a central bank.

The way they got into this mess? While Spain and Ireland had real estate bubbles, many French & Italian banks made big mistakes. Pre - Euro they could buy government bonds with yields around 15%, which is phenomenal. But, after the Euro came into being, Euro area bonds began behaving like a bloc and gravitated to German yields (around 2%). For a long time, the Euro bond acted like a German bund. So, the banks that had been getting 15% yield, leveraged up significantly to offset the lower yields. But sometime in 2011 (?), when Greece began to wobble yields began behaving individually again, and as the threat of large losses on Greek govt bonds rose, banks looked to sell out of Portuguese debt before everyone else did, creating a spike in Portuguese yields. Contagion. The ECB didnt step in until the situation was dire.

edit: For Italy, like Monte Paschi, they made a shit deal that got wiped out. Many of their junior bondholders are retail Italian investors so the government wants to bail them out but the new ECB rules say no bail out. So, if no bail out for Monte Paschi, then Italy says no bail out for Deutsche bank.

There will be a bail out when Monte Paschi gets low enough.

EBC is big banks service,euro is political weapon.In a case of Monte Paschj it will be third bailout from 2009
Point is that Italy is on the edge of new election,if Grillo  will win,he will launch his New Begining
First what he will order will be referendum,do italian want to stay in EU and do italian want to stay with euro currency,than we have election in France and Germany

will you give even a penny to rescue Monte Paschi

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/11/monte-dei-paschi-siena-emergency-cash-injection-european-central-bank (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/11/monte-dei-paschi-siena-emergency-cash-injection-european-central-bank)