Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Service Discussion => Topic started by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 01:27:57 PM



Title: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 01:27:57 PM
I have a serious problem with this site.

They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I would strongly suggest you stay away from that place until I have sorted this out.

Admin have answered only after 5 days, and promised to fix, BUT, Nothing happens and no answer.

No answer at ANY address!

This is serious and I welcome any help.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naphto on April 09, 2013, 01:29:57 PM
t4i


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 01:32:55 PM
care to explain what that mean?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: Garath on April 09, 2013, 01:53:49 PM
They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I have the same problem : standard SEPA withdrawal has been asked on April 1st (no it is not a joke).
Still nothing asof today, 7 days later, and no answer from the admin.  :(

I could understand delays, but only if this was accompanied by proper communication.
I hope the exchange will continue to provide a good QoS, and that the EUR they are holding for me are not going to be used for "long-term vacations" in the Caymans.
So far, I recognize that the trading facility has been of good quality  :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 02:00:02 PM
I Would strongly advice anyone to avoid BTC24 UNTIL this is sorted out. Missing money is serious.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: fydel on April 09, 2013, 02:03:34 PM
I hope these problems are just some growing pains. The service was very good since I started using it last year. If I had problems they all worked out in a good way. And TAiS46 (the owner) was always friendly and competent and willing to help.

But in the last couple of weeks the support is less good / not existing.
I am also waiting for 54 BTC to receive since yesterday and I am getting nervous, too.

TAiS46: Please introduce a little fee so you can hire support staff and continue the good work with BTC24. That would be great because I really like BTC24 and it's friendly community on irc.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 02:12:49 PM
TAiS46 has not been there fo a long time. This is really serious and ther is NO WORD from site to anyone. Its dead silent.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: xendless on April 09, 2013, 02:14:52 PM
I had no trouble with this site until two weeks ago when someone posted a link about the site on reddit. I heard that over 100,000 new users signed up that week and ever since it has been chaos…

On top of that, all major players in the bitcoin game seem to be regularly under DDOS attack, which isn't helping much.

I sent a EUR SEPA deposit to bitcoin-24 on the 27th of March, at the time the price of BTC was about 80 EUR. 13 days have now passed, BTC is at 160 EUR and my SEPA deposit has still not shown up at bitcoin-24. Bear in mind that this is a SEPA from an bank account that I have already used to deposit to the same account at bitcoin-24, and that the last time it took 24h…

Multiple attempts to contact the admin (via the web contact form and email) have gone unanswered.

I can understand that the admin (who as far as I can tell is alone in this operation) is very busy, but I have 'lost' 50% of my investment and counting, and as such I would have to warn people off this site until things get back up an running properly.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: Newscastix on April 09, 2013, 02:25:42 PM
I had no trouble with this site until two weeks ago when someone posted a link about the site on reddit. I heard that over 100,000 new users signed up that week and ever since it has been chaos…

On top of that, all major players in the bitcoin game seem to be regularly under DDOS attack, which isn't helping much.

I sent a EUR SEPA deposit to bitcoin-24 on the 27th of March, at the time the price of BTC was about 80 EUR. 13 days have now passed, BTC is at 160 EUR and my SEPA deposit has still not shown up at bitcoin-24. Bear in mind that this is a SEPA from an bank account that I have already used to deposit to the same account at bitcoin-24, and that the last time it took 24h…

Multiple attempts to contact the admin (via the web contact form and email) have gone unanswered.

I can understand that the admin (who as far as I can tell is alone in this operation) is very busy, but I have 'lost' 50% of my investment and counting, and as such I would have to warn people off this site until things get back up an running properly.

This is totally unacceptable!  :o :o :o

The LEAST that can be done is a short message on their twitter or Homepage that all is OK and that they are overwhelmed, etc...

This takes 30 seconds max!

NO one is too busy for that!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: mcgin on April 09, 2013, 02:35:37 PM
I used them on Thursday last week with no issues.  Admittedly I didn't do a cash withdrawal I withdrew my balance in bitcoins.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: phlogistonq on April 09, 2013, 02:50:12 PM
Agree with fydel that it would be good if the site owner hired some personel and communicated that the over-exponential increase in traffic has impacted the friendly and fast service we had come to expect from him untill 2 weeks ago.

I have deposited and withdrawn bitcoins over the past days without problems, deposited and withdrawn via SEPA in the past 3 weeks several times and traded on the site for months without problems.

While some of the problem examples above seem legitimate, I do notice that a lot of people start yelling on the webchat after a SEPA deposit hasn't arrived after a single day, while the site clearly states it takes 3-5 busininess days. In other words, a full week. Or some people that haven't yet even grasped the concept of the blockchain start shouting "bitcoin24 is bad" when a bitcoin withdrawal is not immediate but takes more than an hour sometimes (6 confirmations).



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 03:07:12 PM
Until the Site has communicated properly with those that _have_ problems I STRONGLY advise everybody to refrain from depositing anything there.

It only takes 5 minutes to communicate in a decent manner.

It only takes him 2 inutes to fulfil what he promised me. But now there is NO REPLY NO COMMUNICATION  NOTHING!

This is no game.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: TrAsHeR on April 09, 2013, 03:08:30 PM
The BITCOIN-24.Com it's a scam

Please never buy on the website, because you can lost you're monnaie

so very be careful


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: hamburg on April 09, 2013, 03:18:53 PM
I am waiting for SEPA (same day) withdrawal too. They should not advertise that it will be handled within 24h if they can not provide it. Somehow i expect at least a short notification that it will take longer (for whatever reasons).


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: donjoe on April 09, 2013, 03:34:50 PM
Simon probably should've blocked new registrations the second he noticed the user base is becoming too much to handle. Better keep a modest number of relatively satisfied customers than start making a bad reputation and potentially lose everyone.

That said, I don't think there has been any convincing evidence of foul play yet. Everything still looks consistent with the explanation that he just got overwhelmed and hasn't been able to define a good response to the new situation yet.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: xendless on April 09, 2013, 03:37:35 PM
That said, I don't think there has been any convincing evidence of foul play yet. Everything still looks consistent with the explanation that he just got overwhelmed and hasn't been able to define a good response to the new situation yet.

Something's definitely amiss though, SEPAs from last week are being credited to people's accounts, meanwhile it seems like a large chunk of SEPAs from 10-14 days ago remain in limbo…

Foul play or no, the lack of communication is unacceptable.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 03:48:37 PM
Simon probably should've blocked new registrations the second he noticed the user base is becoming too much to handle. Better keep a modest number of relatively satisfied customers than start making a bad reputation and potentially lose everyone.

That said, I don't think there has been any convincing evidence of foul play yet. Everything still looks consistent with the explanation that he just got overwhelmed and hasn't been able to define a good response to the new situation yet.

It is very convincing , that I am locked in. Cant get my money, I cant take my bitcoin out. He is not doing what he _promised_ to do. That is a serious problem and UNTIL this is sorted out I warn anyone from depositing enything there.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 03:50:12 PM
By now Simon should be very aware of what is happening. He certainly is aware of these problems but there is not one single word from him regarding this. Anyone who think this is normal is not taking this seriously enough.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: fydel on April 09, 2013, 03:51:10 PM
Quote
Something's definitely amiss though, SEPAs from last week are being credited to people's accounts, meanwhile it seems like a large chunk of SEPAs from 10-14 days ago remain in limbo…

And there is something wrong with withdrawing coins. My transaction of 53.99 BTCs which I did 12 hours ago is marked as "confirmed" but it doesn't show up in the blockchain. Other people who withdrew their coins after me received them.
So - as being a chicken - I start shitting my pants a little.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 04:03:30 PM
By this time Simon should have seen al this, he has the chance to spend 5 mins at talking to us, but.....silence. This is so wrong and so bad for the Bitcoin community.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: Garath on April 09, 2013, 04:16:38 PM
I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out".


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: btcash on April 09, 2013, 04:35:31 PM
Waiting for my SEPA my too.
Do use this service till this issue is resolved.

It is time for a trading fee. No one should do that much work without payment.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: xyz on April 09, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out".
Not for me! I am trying 3 hours now to withdraw my btc - it doesn't work!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: naitwit on April 09, 2013, 05:08:13 PM
I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out".

Good for you. My SMS does not work. ADMIN :_Has promised_ to fix that but NOTHING HAPPENS! I Cant get my money!!!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: fydel on April 09, 2013, 05:30:50 PM
Quote
I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out"

You are so lucky.

TAiS46: Please take a look at my broken withdraw (Account: fydel). I am going on a vacation next week and I really could use some extra money for blackjack and hookers. J
I already donated .704 BTC and I would be happy to donate more.

Quote
53.99900000   2013-04-09 04:56:40   Confirmed
...but doesn't show up in blockchaininfo.

And please hire some helper monkeys.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: xchrix on April 09, 2013, 07:33:58 PM
also have the same problem! two SEPA withdrawals... waiting for ages!
i also tried to withdraw some money with a very expensive money parcel. havent got anything yet  :-\


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: xyz on April 09, 2013, 07:44:14 PM
Now I was able to get my btc from bitcoin24 - I am glad...

But I will not trade again on this site - I had bad moments! Seems that the owner disturbs with his silence his business! Why does he not respond? No sign, not here not in his chat, nowhere...

Good luck for all of you who have problems too!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: nomailing on April 09, 2013, 10:16:18 PM
I used btc24 a lot over the last 3 months and never had any problems. SEPA/BTC withdrawals and deposits worked always. Only once a withdrawal took more than a week, but with SEPA I think that's not so unusual. I really liked the site. Especially the possibility to instantly (!) deposit Euro's with giropay.

But what I read here doesn't seem good, so I will now also stay away from it and continue trading on mtgox and bitcoin-central.net until this is resolved... I hope that the admin will clear things up with some statement. And I would also prefer to pay a small trading fee if that gives more security and trust. Something like 0.1%-0.2% is still very cheap compared to other sites and wouldn't hurt anybody.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: phlogistonq on April 10, 2013, 12:21:22 AM
Those of you with BTC withdrawal problems (except possibly fydel):

The site maintains a 'hot' and a 'cold' wallet as a security measure.
You can only withdraw coins if there are enough in the hot wallet.
It will say 'confirmed' in your BTC withdrawals list if you acknowledged the withdrawal with the email or SMS confirmation code.
This is not the same as confirmations in the blockchain. If the hotwallet is empty, there will be no actual withdrawal until there are coins in the hotwallet again.

You can check the amount in the hotwallet here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: spark on April 10, 2013, 04:05:44 AM
I've had no issues but always withdraw bitcoin not sepa.

One sepa desposit did take awhile to hit the account... but they said the reference hadn't been included.

Got support via support@bitcoin-24.com


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: Brythe on April 10, 2013, 04:17:51 AM
They've been under a lot of ddos and regular downtime, take one look at their twitter.

Also,

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

look at the volume thats being traded on btc-24 compared to the other major exchanges. If the 100,000 new users is true then one can imagine the imbalance.

Here is my problem is bitcoin-24 cares:

My 100$ liqpay hasnt showed up or responded to after 3 days. (Usually takes 8hours)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: xendless on April 10, 2013, 06:55:49 AM
An update: I got an email from bitcoin-24 support during the night asking for the SEPA sender's name - they seem to think the transfer may have come through without a reference (there was definitely a reference when I sent it, it shows on my statement, but maybe it got lost en route?)…

I have replied with the information so I assume they are looking into it, although it is still odd that my previous SEPA from the same bank account went through without a hitch.

I will post back when I have news.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: naitwit on April 10, 2013, 07:28:25 AM
An update: I got an email from bitcoin-24 support during the night asking for the SEPA sender's name - they seem to think the transfer may have come through without a reference (there was definitely a reference when I sent it, it shows on my statement, but maybe it got lost en route?)…

I have replied with the information so I assume they are looking into it, although it is still odd that my previous SEPA from the same bank account went through without a hitch.

I will post back when I have news.

I also got my reply during the night, where they finally executed.

Apparently they have a strange system for "sorting" support. They apparently move All earlier incoming email down in line with the last incoming mail. So if you write
one email, and then another 6 hours later, the first one will be moved down to the last one in que.....

Very strange system, and I have suggested that they change that so that all incoming mail is connected to a "case number". Let's see if they manage something
"not invented here" of if they are stubborn enough to continue with this strange way of treating clients.

I will of course not try any transfer of Fiat from them. To them I never had any problems, and I do think that any problems with that really depend
on the sending part. SEPA, correctly filled, is automatic and pratically fool proof. But of course there are banks that are not perfect.

I did that myself over the Internet and it worked perfectly for me.

For my part this case is closed. It caused me a lot of unneccesary concern, and it is apparent that BTC-24 is under staffed, and they should perhaps take aout a small
trading fee in order to employ some support.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: mateo on April 10, 2013, 09:06:00 AM
I made a SEPA withdrawal 13 days ago. I received an email almost a week ago that withdrawal completed with the my bank account information which was correct. However no money has actually reached my account. I contacted my bank and they said no such transaction ever existed and usually they are able to see transactions coming from other banks even if something is wrong (like incorrect IBAN). Which means that despite B24 saying that "withdrawal completed", my money isn't even stuck somewhere, they never left B24's bank! This isn't looking good..

Oh, and I tried contacting support several times now. Nobody ever answers.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: hamburg on April 10, 2013, 11:54:50 AM
Small update from my side.  My SEPA withdrawal went through. So I am fine. But I still would have liked to see better communication from bitcoin-24.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING!
Post by: fydel on April 10, 2013, 12:52:11 PM
Those of you with BTC withdrawal problems (except possibly fydel):

The hotwallet was filled several times but no coins for me.
I had this problem before (about a month ago) and it was solved after talking to user Unflux on #bitcoin24.

The 54 coins are worth quite a lot, so I am beginning to feel rather uncomfortable now. I start worrying that I lost coins worth 10k EUR.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: shantee on April 10, 2013, 01:44:31 PM
I started a SEPA transfert a week ago and i still haven't received anything but that's not what is worrying and pissing me off the most.
What is giving bad feelings about this site is that  for the last three days I have been trying and failing to withdraw my BTC  ! (by withdraw I mean to transfer them into my cold wallet address)

Every time i try to withdraw my btc i cannot because i don't receive the validation code neither by email not by SMS.

I of course tried to contact the support many time , I even sent a message on their facebook page but till now I have got no reply!


I kinda begin to worry about it. I am aware that it can take sometime to get the money on your account when you do a SEPA transfer and I don't mind waiting a little for that. But for me it is unacceptable that you can't withdraw you btc whenever you want !



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: m1416 on April 10, 2013, 01:48:15 PM
1.8 BTC Vanished from my Bitcoin24 acct I did not get an email notification or email code. I just logged in today and the BTC do not register in my account. Is it because of the hot/cold wallet?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: xyz on April 10, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
1.8 BTC Vanished from my Bitcoin24 acct I did not get an email notification or email code. I just logged in today and the BTC do not register in my account. Is it because of the hot/cold wallet?
Try again and again - till you get an e-mail code! I had the same problem, but after some hours it worked! Good Luck!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: m1416 on April 10, 2013, 02:05:51 PM
But i did not try to withdraw the bitcoins, they are just not there!!!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: xyz on April 10, 2013, 02:11:52 PM
But i did not try to withdraw the bitcoins, they are just not there!!!
Sorry, I misunderstood! I cannot help...
There are a lot of problems at this site this days - and no support!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: boromir on April 11, 2013, 12:37:46 AM
I've made a "same day" SEPA withdrawl on 09 April, and on April 10 at 14pm the money were already in my bank account. No probs from my side, only with the website down and up again...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Garath on April 11, 2013, 01:23:05 PM
Update :
this now seems to go better :
- on Monday 1st, I initiated a standard SEPA transfer
- on Wednesday 10th morning, I received an email from BTC-24 saying that the transfer was processed
- on Thurday 11th (today) afternoon, the money was on my bank account  :)
So the bottleneck was on the processing side of BTC-24.
I think I will continue to trust them at least for a while.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: phlogistonq on April 11, 2013, 01:42:01 PM
Every time i try to withdraw my btc i cannot because i don't receive the validation code neither by email not by SMS.

Did you check your spam mail folder? My btc24 confirmation emails usually end up there.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on April 11, 2013, 05:03:57 PM
Ok. Still missing my coins.

In the current volatil market situation this is really bad for me. I am quite disappointed about the current support situation at BTC24.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: guidebook on April 11, 2013, 07:15:58 PM
I started a SEPA withdrawal on March 29, got the email confirmation on April 4 and still nothing on my bank account!
With no word from the support, I'm starting to be really worried. Don't trust this website!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: BBN on April 11, 2013, 07:55:10 PM
I guess Mtgox when they go online. Quite a few people recommend btc24  ::)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Gordonium on April 11, 2013, 07:56:23 PM
I withdrawed my Bitcoins too but they dont show in Blockchain!  >:( I am so scared right now. Did they scam my coins?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Gordonium on April 11, 2013, 08:01:42 PM
I withdrawed my Bitcoins too but they dont show in Blockchain! Did they scam my coins?  >:(

Everything is okay now. I got my coins back   :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 11, 2013, 08:08:05 PM
bitcoin-24.com is incorporated in the UK, uses an "office" in France, is hosted by ovh and has its name registered with namecheap (as a rule I never do business with anyone registered with namecheap) and run by a German who apparently uses this as his e-mail b9t1t9a1wr4yqt3ovom1@u.o-w-o.info.

Seems legit.  I would not worry at all.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 11:06:52 AM
Now the trading engine has gone insane too:
- some trades on the users' active lists just sit there while the price passes over them up and down several times
- some trades are executed multiple times
- account balances show wrong numbers.
(I can only personally attest to the first problem, the others I picked up from the chat.)

This is no way to run an exchange, I'm out.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on April 12, 2013, 11:15:10 AM
Simon, I think its best to stop the exchange until the problems are solved or more people will get burned.

I can confirm these problems:
- double receiving of coins (not me, but a close friend of mine)
- orderbook not updating (same problem as donjoe)
- withdrawn coins are marked as confirmed but not in blockchain


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: djole on April 12, 2013, 11:19:14 AM
Requested withdrawal on Monday, received funds by Wednesday.

I think that they are just overwhelmed now with same withdrawal requests, as MtGox sucks last 2 days.

 


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Rockefoten on April 12, 2013, 11:23:28 AM
Requested withdrawal on Monday, received funds by Wednesday.

I think that they are just overwhelmed now with same withdrawal requests, as MtGox sucks last 2 days.

 

Did you withdraw btc or sepa? I requested sepa withdrawal Wednesday last week, it's still processing at their end. Sent support ticket yesterday. Why would they process newer requests before dealing with the older ones? Do they just pick randomly from the queue?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on April 12, 2013, 11:30:41 AM
And there is another variation of the doubling bug.

I sold 0.2 BTC but it was executed multiple times.

http://i.imgur.com/kPHHPUJ.jpg


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: djole on April 12, 2013, 11:32:34 AM
Requested withdrawal on Monday, received funds by Wednesday.

I think that they are just overwhelmed now with same withdrawal requests, as MtGox sucks last 2 days.

 

Did you withdraw btc or sepa? I requested sepa withdrawal Wednesday last week, it's still processing at their end. Sent support ticket yesterday. Why would they process newer requests before dealing with the older ones? Do they just pick randomly from the queue?

It was SEPA same day request.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 02:06:29 PM
Piece of crap website hasn't even put my withdrawal on the blockchain yet and I confirmed it via SMS 3 hours ago. >:(


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: apetersson on April 12, 2013, 02:30:33 PM
is 1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26 the cold wallet address eventually?

if so, there is hope  - maybe not all is lost.

my deposit which i traded for eur and tried to withdraw yesterday went there.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michalko on April 12, 2013, 02:32:50 PM
I sent a lot of money through SEPA to this exchange yesterday. Order was already processed. Is there any way to "charge-back" SEPA payments? I am starting to be worried due to site down and no information from operator.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 02:55:02 PM
is 1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26 the cold wallet address eventually?

if so, there is hope  - maybe not all is lost.

my deposit which i traded for eur and tried to withdraw yesterday went there.
Looks like it, in which case this must be the hotwallet and it's empty right now: https://blockchain.info/en/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Aianis on April 12, 2013, 03:44:10 PM
The situation is really scary. No info anywhere, people worried about their funds and coins stuck in limbo, while Simon resolves the situation. No announcements, hence all nervous.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Taduliauskas on April 12, 2013, 03:48:45 PM
Maybe someone have contacted Simon ?

It's really disturbing, that no announcements has been published neither, on twitter or facebook pages...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 03:55:26 PM
I pointed out this thread to him when it was created, but he hasn't answered. This was via Facebook private message.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: penthrite on April 12, 2013, 04:22:32 PM
I sent a lot of money through SEPA to this exchange yesterday. Order was already processed. Is there any way to "charge-back" SEPA payments? I am starting to be worried due to site down and no information from operator.
I sent 10k euro yesterday as well. Once the bank has announced the execution of the payment, which usually happens within a few hours, i think that there's nothing practical we can do to stop it. I would stay positive anyway, the situation will be probably sorted out in a few days.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: keinur on April 12, 2013, 04:36:51 PM
There are some small transactions showing up in the btc24 chart during the last few minutes. Seems like they are testing the fixes.

Hopefully it will be back again soon.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 05:00:55 PM
I don't know about "small" transactions - I see he's been letting through something like 250 BTC in the last hour. Besides, the only positive signal I want to see right now is my BTC in his hotwallet and then out on the blockchain. I don't care about anything else he does after that. (I should've bailed out when this thread started instead of keeping my hopes up and ending up with my BTC frozen for 6 fckin hours during a price drop. I so hate this Simon guy right now.)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Taduliauskas on April 12, 2013, 05:13:09 PM
Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

Well btc24 "exchangers" we wont be taking part in current btc price resolving situation ... :)

UPDATE:


Quote
All important Emails can be send to help@bitcoin-24.com


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 12, 2013, 05:17:32 PM
Simon is a pretty well known DJ, so he should be able to manage a high volume, monetary transaction website with little or no problems huh?  Just like spinning records and listening to only half of a headphone while bobbling your head rhythmically hoping for the fog machine to kick in.

This glitch must just be the fog machine not kicking in, since that is the same problem that online trading companies run into all the time.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 12, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

Well btc24 "exchangers" we wont be taking part in current btc price resolving situation ... :)

Something tells me he has packed up and left with whatever he can carry.  This should stall people for time..."Ahh...I still have my money its just that it is safe.  But, transactions are happening...eventually...It is not the website's fault but the Polish Banking Shutting Down Authority....and his lawyers are working on it.  Yep, I can wait before any real, meaningful inquiry.

Those of you who pressure him directly are more likely to get a refund as he stalls before Johnny Law, or Jarek Lawski since he is in Poland, catch up with him.

I have a phone number for him but I have no idea if it works.  PM me if you want it.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: tronic1704 on April 12, 2013, 05:47:13 PM
Hello,

look at the site, he has give a new Statement...

https://bitcoin-24.com/



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 06:03:12 PM
That "new" statement was already quoted above.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: penthrite on April 12, 2013, 06:05:52 PM
The only thing i'm wondering about is to whom the money that were used to multiple-sell were taken. If it was from the buyer, we would have seen people complaining about buying 10 bitcoins and paying them as 20 or multiples, but i haven't read any. There seem to be only multiple selling instances. So where do the extra money come from? There must be a hole somewhere, just to know where it is.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: johnnyf on April 12, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
I've got a my lifes savings in currency and BTC in there.
Wooha. Thats a problem. But to be honest, BTCs are just an experiment. I wouldn't bet anything on just one card. Always be aware, such a thing can allways drop to 0.0 and is worthless.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: johnnyf on April 12, 2013, 08:15:34 PM
I've got a my lifes savings in currency and BTC in there.
Wooha. Thats a problem. But to be honest, BTCs are just an experiment. I wouldn't bet anything on just one card. Always be aware, such a thing can allways drop to 0.0 and is worthless.

Im a lot more concerned about the euro that was there than the BTC, about 60 BTC, euro was a lot more. I could only withdraw 5k a day on the daily limit. My life is over if this guy doesnt come back.

This sounds odd. Wish you all the best buddy.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: x25 on April 12, 2013, 08:23:20 PM
Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

Well btc24 "exchangers" we wont be taking part in current btc price resolving situation ... :)

Something tells me he has packed up and left with whatever he can carry. 

More likely this is a result of many mongoloids panicking in past 2 days because they couldn't get in on the "run" (transfers not showing up in their BTC24 accounts 3 seconds after they've made them), and quite few people were seemingly reporting BTC24 to police, bank, whomever.

I had no idea how many greedy idiots there are in this world until now.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 12, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
OVH should have his old contact information.  The number I thought I had was from the OVH Whois Obsfuscator  +33.899498765 so that alone will not get you anywhere but with enough people OVH might be willing to give up his billing information.

Lots of bitcoin transaction websites are going titsup and blaming it on circumstances related to customer use and not packing up hard currency and leaving.

Did any of you research Simon Hausdorf before and realize you were giving money not to someone who set up live monetary transaction systems for a living but instead was a spikey gel haired DJ?  I mean he went from DJ to currency exchange in an instant and no one noticed?

That is the dodgy thing about bitcoin, is that hardly any of the movers and traders had anything to do with financial systems before setting up shop.  Mark Karpeles was a php programmer who bought a "Magic: The Gathering" trading card site and turned it into the outlet of the a currency that is supposed to take over the world.

Its like a Michael Lewis book that writes itself.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 09:00:09 PM
I guess this is just the kind of situation they put up warnings like this in the newbie subforum for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33835.0


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 PM
I guess this is just the kind of situation they put up warnings like this in the newbie subforum for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33835.0

"Trust No One" is really just secret code for "Trust a Spikey Haired DJ Who Uses Name Cheap and OVH Whois Obsfuscation For Financial Transactions Then Blames Poland And Asks People To Wait"



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 12, 2013, 09:08:28 PM
Did any of you research Simon Hausdorf before and realize you were giving money not to someone who set up live monetary transaction systems for a living but instead was a spikey gel haired DJ?  I mean he went from DJ to currency exchange in an instant and no one noticed?

I've met the guy a couple of times, so I feel I need to chime in to tell everyone to calm the fuck down.

He's an idealist.
He never took trading fees - he could've made a friggin killing with that.
He never arbitraged on his own exchange - something I pointed out to him repeatedly would be the first thing I would do given the amount of cash and BTC he could hold at other exchanges.

I do not at all think that he just up and left.
I think his venture got larger than he expected, he ran into some serious technical trouble and some dipship went crying mommy to the police, who promptly shut the place down.

He'll be accused of many many things, and I don't want to be in his place right now. I have (had?) 15k€ on my account which are probably lost, so I am probably gonna feel some hurt as well. I do hope that indeed my funds are safe and that the withdrawal request I sent to the help email will be filled.

I had a bad feeling the past few days but didn't act upon it. Too bad.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 12, 2013, 09:13:51 PM
What exactly do you mean by "crying to the police"?  Do the police in Poland shut down a website doing financial trading because of "crying" or were they worried about a law being broken? 

So you met him a few times and he is an idealist.  But he put up a site that did financial transactions and was in over his head.  His lawyers are obviously not putting on pressure, because if they had been any good at all and if he had any juice at all before he got in this game his lawyers would have found a way to prevent "crying", so his lawyers, if they exist at all are not very talented.  Maybe his lawyers do the lights at his DJ gigs.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 12, 2013, 09:28:17 PM
I can understand if euros/dollars are locked up but we should be able to get bitcoin out as bitcoin aren't stored in some polish bank. Honestly I got into bitcoin to avoid banks so hearing you can't get your bitcoin back because some guy's bank account is suspended is bs.

I'll give it a couple of days before I spend my remaining btc on a hitman from silkroad.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: penthrite on April 12, 2013, 09:37:20 PM
I have (had?) 15k€ on my account which are probably lost.
I have 10k in there, so "lost" my ass. Money don't get lost, it changes pockets. Exactly in which pockets are they? Could you tell that? The Polish account will probably be unfrozen soon, so that's not the problem. Isn't anybody interested in where the fuck their money is... ???

What i fear is that Simon will be "forced" to use our deposits to cover the hole created by the multiple-selling bug, that has been the cause of all of this in the first place.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 09:39:30 PM
I've met the guy a couple of times, so I feel I need to chime in to tell everyone to calm the fuck down.
[...]
I do not at all think that he just up and left.
I think his venture got larger than he expected, he ran into some serious technical trouble and some dipship went crying mommy to the police, who promptly shut the place down.
I never said this was a point where calling the police sounded like a good idea or where I thought I had lost all my coins for good. I still think there's a good chance of getting my stuff back, though it will likely not happen before Monday and if the weekend dip takes us to something like $10-$20 for the last time in Bitcoin history while I'm unable to trade, I will probably still feel justified in holding a bad opinion of Bitcoin-24 and never wanting anything to do with it again.

Also, even if everyone does get their money back, I think they should still use the scare they will have gone through as a lesson in attitude toward Bitcoin security (see link above - "Trust No One").

Lastly, I don't think the police shut down anything, as some order executions have continued to trickle out ever since he made the interface inaccessible and I don't think anyone would try to go against law enforcement measures in such a visible way.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 12, 2013, 10:00:44 PM
What exactly do you mean by "crying to the police"?  Do the police in Poland shut down a website doing financial trading because of "crying" or were they worried about a law being broken? 

So you met him a few times and he is an idealist.  But he put up a site that did financial transactions and was in over his head.  His lawyers are obviously not putting on pressure, because if they had been any good at all and if he had any juice at all before he got in this game his lawyers would have found a way to prevent "crying", so his lawyers, if they exist at all are not very talented.  Maybe his lawyers do the lights at his DJ gigs.



Of course laws were broken. German laws. And I am guessing that some German lawpeople (we arr good wiz ze law, yu know) talked to some Polish law people who acted instantly.
For you know, fucking with the gov's finance/tax institutions is the worst you can do these days. I'll just throw some acronyms out there... KYC? AML? BAFIN?

If you think that lawyers will preemptively shield you from any and all legal complaints some (bavarian... baruthian... just guessing here...) assclown files, please assume otherwise.

I would think that it's the EUROs that are safe (since they're held by a bank) and the BTC are what's gonna disappear.

We'll see.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Stibit on April 12, 2013, 10:01:55 PM
uh huh.

So it's early days in this new currency....

Did anyone think different ?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: keinur on April 12, 2013, 10:05:23 PM
Honestly, it scares me most the implication of the police and financial authorities than the possibility that the guy ran out with the money.

Everybody knows who evil is in this market, and in this case I'm quite sure it's not the guy.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 12, 2013, 10:10:04 PM
I would think that it's the EUROs that are safe (since they're held by a bank) and the BTC are what's gonna disappear.
Well, at the very least I'd expect the 7000 BTC that are still visible in the (or just one of the?) colldwallet(s?) to remain available for proportional redistribution even if the whole thing is forced to shut down.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 12, 2013, 10:13:07 PM
this is what it feels like to be cypriot


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: superfire on April 12, 2013, 10:14:00 PM
whats the latest update to this?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 12, 2013, 10:19:28 PM
whats the latest update to this?

still the same. amazing how much 'stuff' happens on a friday just before going home time. It gives crooks the weekend to escape. he's probably half way to south america by now.

Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

All important Emails can be send to help@bitcoin-24.com


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 12, 2013, 10:20:47 PM
OK, this is my first post on this forum.

First of all, I would like to say that i have 21,000 EUR + approx 100 BTC on the bitcoin 24 exchange right now.
I actually started using this website this week, it sounded good, had had no major security breach, was paying people on time. So I exchanged BTC and made a withdrawal of 20,000 on the 07/04/2013. Because i thought the website was cool, I also made a donation of 1BTC (worth 200 EUR at that time) to the guy.
My username on this website is littlechubb05 by the way.

I'm quite pissed off now as you can imagine.

Simon fucked up badly:
- with the authorities (no KYC, etc.)
- with his engine (bugs in the engine resulting in wrong balances)
- with his customers (i sent him an email on the 08/04, never got any answer, despite the fact that i was his bigger donator that week...)

Now, looking at what others are saying about him, it looks like he's not a criminal or a scammer.
He just fucked up while trying to do good.
I'm not sure what to do right now, but what we need to do is help him, not put more pressure on him. Surely, his first iteration of Bitcoin 24 is now dead. But I think most of the money is still there, like 90% of it. Most of them will be frozen by the polish authorities though and might be kept for years, or maybe just taken away by the polish government. Who knows. But there is some hope that he can fix things too and we get our money back. Obviously, none of us will go back to Bitcoin 24.

I would also like to say that if the media catch this story, this will be a huge hit on Bitcoin in general. It's entirely possible that millions of Euros might be kept by the polish authorities. If the media know that, it can kill Bitcoin because nobody will ever trust the exchanges anymore. No exchange, no bitcoin.

On another note, who said Simon is also a DJ?
I doubt that, it might simply be a homonym.

Thanks for reading me.

Ivan


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 12, 2013, 10:26:44 PM
typo: littlechubba05

Now that i'm thinking about it, I should have offered Simon some help earlier on.
But i just came on Bitcoin 24 last week, and it took me some time to realize what was really happening.

I don't plan to take any legal action against him right now (not before a few weeks at least, if at all). I hope others will do the same, the wisest thing to do is to cool things down so we can get something back.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 12, 2013, 11:11:54 PM
Is everybody sleeping already?  ;)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 12, 2013, 11:15:15 PM
Is everybody sleeping already?  ;)


thought we were back:( may as well sleep tbh


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: anon24 on April 12, 2013, 11:35:26 PM
I would think that it's the EUROs that are safe (since they're held by a bank) and the BTC are what's gonna disappear.
Well, at the very least I'd expect the 7000 BTC that are still visible in the (or just one of the?) colldwallet(s?) to remain available for proportional redistribution even if the whole thing is forced to shut down.


There are a couple of cold wallets, see here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174600.msg1821468#msg1821468

Total of 18k coins in addresses linked to Simon Hausdorf


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: EdsWow1 on April 12, 2013, 11:57:13 PM
The only thing i'm wondering about is to whom the money that were used to multiple-sell were taken. If it was from the buyer, we would have seen people complaining about buying 10 bitcoins and paying them as 20 or multiples, but i haven't read any. There seem to be only multiple selling instances. So where do the extra money come from? There must be a hole somewhere, just to know where it is.

Thought of the same .... - mostly people just got too much .... more then what they should have gotten.... so somehow, the hole will be on bitcoin-24 itselve. its obvious, that he (Simon) himself pays and paid the dept on the male-doubles.... ...

so, right... he is to blame for communication and technique faults and that all the acounts, bitcoins, money is now *locked* - but still... if we all get back to our accounts and holdings, still he will be maybe the only one, who lost some coins !


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: horsebox1 on April 13, 2013, 12:10:19 AM
Frustrating now being able to post in the rest of the forum. Has he ever posted here himself?

I hope there is some word soon and the funds are safe, jesus christ i hope so


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 13, 2013, 12:21:52 AM
Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.
For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

This is really bad. I think we need to ask to delete his post on stackexchange (and then delete my present post on here). It's the same, once people know that the second biggest exchange was run by a young beginning developer with no knowledge of transactions, it will be a big shock. I'm sure that even the MtGox developers are not that bad. And still, everybody is laughing at them after the debacle. It's only a matter of hours/days before the news catch the whole thing. And it won't be just Fox News with their Bitcoin bashing, it will be the serious tech press, with articles written by people with much more credibility.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 13, 2013, 12:29:50 AM
Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.
For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

This is really bad. I think we need to ask to delete his post on stackexchange (and then delete my present post on here). It's the same, once people know that the second biggest exchange was run by a young beginning developer with no knowledge of transactions, it will be a big shock. I'm sure that even the MtGox developers are not that bad. And still, everybody is laughing at them after the debacle.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed.

See you guys  :)

looks like i've lost a couple of grand but this attitude of feeling sorry for people who have made a lot of money off people is bs. they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone. people here seem to have the attitude oh this guy gave it a go and failed let's applaud him....he has thousands of bitcoins profit. let him fail after paying back everything he owes. as it stands he's a fraudster.

tell me why bit coin withdrawals are closed? it has zero to do with banks anywhere.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: anon24 on April 13, 2013, 12:41:27 AM
tell me why bit coin withdrawals are closed? it has zero to do with banks anywhere.



probably because of the problems with the trading engine. if everyone withdraws their coins i imagine it will make the current situation more difficult to resolve than it already is - ie rolling back trades to get most accounts back to where they were will become impossible. can't say i am very comfortable with it though.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 13, 2013, 12:57:17 AM
they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone.
That would all be nice and fine, except it depends a lot on what legal classification Bitcoin trading falls under at this time. If it's considered more akin to gambling than banking, it could very well be argued that you aren't entitled to any refund. I don't think we'll really know until we see a few Bitcoin-related lawsuits and get the judicial system's take on Bitcoin. Until then what you're seeing is that people mostly expect Bitcoin not to be recognized or protected by the state as any kind of property or real value.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: c0rw1n on April 13, 2013, 01:56:42 AM
they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone.
That would all be nice and fine, except it depends a lot on what legal classification Bitcoin trading falls under at this time. If it's considered more akin to gambling than banking, it could very well be argued that you aren't entitled to any refund. I don't think we'll really know until we see a few Bitcoin-related lawsuits and get the judicial system's take on Bitcoin. Until then what you're seeing is that people mostly expect Bitcoin not to be recognized or protected by the state as any kind of property or real value.

FWIW The French IRS officials have said that they're not sure if Bitcoin is money, a raw material or a liquid asset or the tax applying to added values.

"A l'heure actuelle, nous ne disposons d'aucune information concernant la nature (monnaie, matière première, valeur mobilière ?) des bitcoins et la fiscalité applicable aux plus-values de cessions réalisées.
Regrettant de ne pouvoir répondre à votre attente,
X.Y., CONTROLEUSE FIP"


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on April 13, 2013, 02:05:24 AM
they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone.
That would all be nice and fine, except it depends a lot on what legal classification Bitcoin trading falls under at this time. If it's considered more akin to gambling than banking, it could very well be argued that you aren't entitled to any refund. I don't think we'll really know until we see a few Bitcoin-related lawsuits and get the judicial system's take on Bitcoin. Until then what you're seeing is that people mostly expect Bitcoin not to be recognized or protected by the state as any kind of property or real value.

FWIW The French IRS officials have said that they're not sure if Bitcoin is money, a raw material or a liquid asset or the tax applying to added values.

"A l'heure actuelle, nous ne disposons d'aucune information concernant la nature (monnaie, matière première, valeur mobilière ?) des bitcoins et la fiscalité applicable aux plus-values de cessions réalisées.
Regrettant de ne pouvoir répondre à votre attente,
X.Y., CONTROLEUSE FIP"

Very interesting thanks for relaying!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: diego1000 on April 13, 2013, 09:38:15 AM
any news?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 13, 2013, 10:00:52 AM
Simon will process the Bitcoins withdrawals. I'm pretty sure of that.
However he needs to reconcile the accounts first. Remember that his trading engine is not working properly, all the numbers and balances are wrong, it is a big mess.
First of all, he needs to fix that, then send the Bitcoins withdrawals.
Then, he will process the money withdrawals.

Let's not call him a scammer, he wasn't running his exchange as a profit making scheme. He's just incompetent.
The problem is that not enough people warned us that this exchange was flaky, although it was very clear from his noob messages on forums. The community should have said STOP, loud, before it was too late.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: horsebox1 on April 13, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
Simon will process the Bitcoins withdrawals. I'm pretty sure of that.
However he needs to reconcile the accounts first. Remember that his trading engine is not working properly, all the numbers and balances are wrong, it is a big mess.
First of all, he needs to fix that, then send the Bitcoins withdrawals.
Then, he will process the money withdrawals.

Let's not call him a scammer, he wasn't running his exchange as a profit making scheme. He's just incompetent.
The problem is that not enough people warned us that this exchange was flaky, although it was very clear from his noob messages on forums. The community should have said STOP, loud, before it was too late.

I've fiat currency balance in there that doesn't have a withdrawal request against it because i cant get on to make one + before this mess could only withdraw to the limit a day.

A statement would go a long way,, i cant sleep at the moment.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 13, 2013, 10:43:29 AM
Yeah, at the very least it would be nice to know that the reason he's been letting the orders execute one by one is that he (or someone) is in the process of untangling the engine/database mess and getting everyone's accounts to a comprehensible state.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: zemario on April 13, 2013, 10:44:56 AM
Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.
For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

This is really bad. I think we need to ask to delete his post on stackexchange (and then delete my present post on here). It's the same, once people know that the second biggest exchange was run by a young beginning developer with no knowledge of transactions, it will be a big shock. I'm sure that even the MtGox developers are not that bad. And still, everybody is laughing at them after the debacle.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed.

See you guys  :)

looks like i've lost a couple of grand but this attitude of feeling sorry for people who have made a lot of money off people is bs. they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone. people here seem to have the attitude oh this guy gave it a go and failed let's applaud him....he has thousands of bitcoins profit. let him fail after paying back everything he owes. as it stands he's a fraudster.

tell me why bit coin withdrawals are closed? it has zero to do with banks anywhere.

This.
Nailed it.
As it stands he is a scammer.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 13, 2013, 10:57:26 AM
Bitcoin withdrawals could be closed because it isn't known yet what the law will force him to do. If the law completely ignores Bitcoins and just forces him to repay all the EUR he owns, while at the same time the Polish insist on keeping his account locked, then his only recourse will be to sell the BTC to get EUR and pay his EUR debts first. If he let the BTC fly away right now, he'd be potentially restricting his ability to comply with some legal obligations he may be slapped with.

Besides, if the orders and account balances aren't sorted through first, he doesn't necessarily have good information on who is a legitimate owner of how many BTC anyway. What if some people acquired more BTC than they had a right to when the engine went crazy and then immediately issued BTC withdrawal orders? If he served those orders he'd be making some of the engine's errors unfixable.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: k8 on April 13, 2013, 11:04:14 AM
and what you think will happen to those who deposited to the polish account, I made a deposit on the day before, thorugh the PLN currency option...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 13, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
Again, please refrain from posting non-rational statement and keep the thread on-topic.

Simon cannot process the withdrawals (BTC or fiat). First of all, he has to sort the database out. Remember that his whole thing is mess and he's not an experienced developer.
Once he's confident that the database is sorted, he can start with the withdrawals.

My fear is, this database problem has been going on for a very long time (months probably), and was probably even worth before (with time, he probably improved as a developer). This mean that a lot of people ran away with fiat/BTC that they shouldn't have had. I would suspect that he was able to keep things running because of the growth of his platform and the number of new users and deposits.
Basically, this could be a Ponzi scheme, excepted that I don't think he was benefiting from it. Only some unethical bug exploiters did. I also think that Simon was checking his database every few days at least and see if the disrepancy was big. If it really was, he would have shut down the exchange earlier.

Let's see what happens.
I'm going to give you my personal guess about the status:
- Overall, Simon fucked up the engine and money was lost, with no turning back
- the lost money probably doesn't exceed 20% of the total amount of the current assets he has
- some additional money was frozen (in Germany or Poland). We don't know how much there was there. But one thing that has a high probability, is that this money will be frozen for a very long time. Investigations like this one take months/years. Especially if there is a lot of IT involved.

To sum up:
- if get 50% of our fiat, i think we're lucky.
- we should be able to get 80% of our BTC back.


Remember, I have 21,000 EUR in there + 100 BTC
At that time, it was worth 45,000 EUR.

Not the happiest guy in the world today  :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: HaldenCoin on April 13, 2013, 12:34:36 PM
Looks like a reasonable situation analysis.
Hope you all get all your values back!!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: gugubagiBTCplease on April 13, 2013, 12:37:35 PM
i hear more and more that hes not a very good developer.
thats everthing else but good. how should he know if some backdoor is lurking on his database-server?
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.

if he wants to get back to his hobby, he must do something like this, else 24 will run into problems again and again and...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Taduliauskas on April 13, 2013, 12:54:32 PM
Does it helps to think so pessimistically about this situation without knowing any verified facts ?

As far as I know, and saw, the engine went nuts for an hour or two maximum, the effect there visible, and we know for sure, that the trading engine was broken for that period of time. Guesses about weeks or months without any proofs is not rational statement, it only makes situation worse, because, weak-nerves people, can believe in your statements blindly, and start panic, which can lead to delayed date of market salvation.  

I completely agree and recommend for everyone to stay calm and do not send dozens of emails to Simon, with foolish questions about FIAT or BTC withdrawals. At the moment it's just not possible, to satisfy all the customers which intends to withdraw either BTC or FIAT, because of the broken engine problem mentioned above. Nobody is special, and no one will get his BTC until the problem is solved and the solution is found.

I am not, making any personal guesses, because this situation is quite unique, and there is no assurance that it will be solved soon or it could take a bit longer. It just wont help. At this moment, the best thing you can do is just continue living, concentrate on other things, wait patiently and then the times come, withdraw your money.

i hear more and more that hes not a very good developer.
thats everthing else but good. how should he know if some backdoor is lurking on his database-server?
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.

if he wants to get back to his hobby, he must do something like this, else 24 will run into problems again and again and...

Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: gugubagiBTCplease on April 13, 2013, 01:02:45 PM
you talk about months/years... you forgot "never".

im a little upset from this guy. i mean he knew at the very first moment, the first customer, the first deposit, the first entry in his database, that he got other peoples mony in his responsibility.
i heard about a bug which went on since 4 weeks and no change here. i mean what did he think? thata the problem will get solved from itself? ok maybe hes not that guilty because this happend at the very same time where big players like MtGox and others had problems. who ever triggered this thing...
but if i ran that service and experience problems i would go and get some help. i mean at least a security-guy should have been onboard.

i didnt had 49.000 € on bitcoin-24, by far not as much and i had it in bitcoins. but im not a rich person and thats why i am upset, i feel the loss of that money.

i dont know but if someone behaves like that, hes probably one of those persons i wouldnt just like. ok he run that service free and so on, but finally was that really free?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Miz4r on April 13, 2013, 01:08:29 PM
Hope this gets resolved soon before it explodes in the media, this was the biggest euro/btc exchange site so it's not a small thing. I also have most of my fiat and btc stalled there, so I can't really buy or trade much anymore until this is fixed. :(


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 13, 2013, 01:11:26 PM
im a little upset from this guy. i mean he knew at the very first moment, the first customer, the first deposit, the first entry in his database, that he got other peoples mony in his responsibility.
And everyone who put their money into BTC should've known from the first day that their money could evaporate in an instant and that they were taking a huge gamble. That's why smart investors all over the place keep telling everyone over and over: don't invest more money than you're comfortable losing.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: gugubagiBTCplease on April 13, 2013, 01:32:08 PM
Quote
Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


1.) how do you know what i write on paper and help to improve who?

2.) yeah nobody is born as a programmer,you're right. (but maybe a few) but i can learn and improve by writing a shell-script which displays me the current exchange-rate of what ever and not learning "real-life"-database-programming with the hard earned money of thousands of people. in this case i would seek for big help. you take that a little bit to easy i think. (maybe you didn't lose anything?)

3.) for me, YOUR comment was not valuable at all, because you just do what a lot of people do in forums: "tell other people to not complain and instead they should do something about it like being productive" well, thats an old shoe, a really old shoe.

4.) im not complaining, i try to express some ideas to see what people think about it thats all, i don't need you explaining me the old shoe... you taught me nothing new here

5.)"almost no fees" im not so sure about that anymore.

6.)i didnt attack this person in no way, so why you come up with this, you probably feel very smart criticize other peoples thoughts.

greets


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: gugubagiBTCplease on April 13, 2013, 01:50:53 PM
im a little upset from this guy. i mean he knew at the very first moment, the first customer, the first deposit, the first entry in his database, that he got other peoples mony in his responsibility.
And everyone who put their money into BTC should've known from the first day that their money could evaporate in an instant and that they were taking a huge gamble. That's why smart investors all over the place keep telling everyone over and over: don't invest more money than you're comfortable losing.

yeah youre right but i knew that at the very first time. but still im upset because i lost money (may i please, thanks). and i still think its not really serious what he did. that has nothing about to do with not knowing what gamble means. i think its not serious to go all there alone, with that much money. why are you people always comment other peoples posting and think you can teach them.
and by the way, i think even the smartest investor has feelings and gets upset if he looses alot of money.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Taduliauskas on April 13, 2013, 02:10:01 PM

Quote
Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


1.) how do you know what i write on paper and help to improve who?

2.) yeah nobody is born as a programmer,you're right. (but maybe a few) but i can learn and improve by writing a shell-script which displays me the current exchange-rate of what ever and not learning "real-life"-database-programming with the hard earned money of thousands of people. in this case i would seek for big help. you take that a little bit to easy i think. (maybe you didn't lose anything?)

3.) for me, YOUR comment was not valuable at all, because you just do what a lot of people do in forums: "tell other people to not complain and instead they should do something about it like being productive" well, thats an old shoe, a really old shoe.

4.) im not complaining, i try to express some ideas to see what people think about it thats all, i don't need you explaining me the old shoe... you taught me nothing new here

5.)"almost no fees" im not so sure about that anymore.

6.)i didnt attack this person in no way, so why you come up with this, you probably feel very smart criticize other peoples thoughts.

greets

Could you please first read consistently what I wrote, and then reply ?

1. I was talking about these ideas circumstantial presentation to Simon directly...

Quote
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.
   
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.

3-4.You can categorize or call it how you like. But still I see no arguments, that trying to look at situation calmly is worse than complaining.

5-6. ?_?

Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Miz4r on April 13, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
Mtgox failing more than btc24? I don't think so, the situation at btc24 is much more serious than the one Mtgox has or had.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bitbadger on April 13, 2013, 02:27:44 PM
Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.

-----

For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  :)
Maybe you could get in touch with him, make an offer to help. You could try via an email to the support helpdesk for Bitcoin-24.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: zemario on April 13, 2013, 02:28:53 PM
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.
As a developer I can tell you that you are plain wrong on this one.
He was indeed incompetent. There are still quite few markets out there, and none of them has proven to be reliable, just because he build the second biggest, it doesn't mean sh_t, it's not like the first one is a very impressive server anyway. So... no.
This bitcoin histeria attracted very many people that will do anything for quick money. Perhaps when bitcoin is well stablish the markets will play an insignificant role and be confined to their little corner. At the moment, they are the easiest way to get bitcoins, despite all their issues.
Using bitcoin24 was not a very wise idea, thats for sure. But AFAIK there is no market that has consistently proved to be reliable and serious.


Quote
Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.
Are you seriously posting on a message board addressing your conversation peer not to reply?
If you do not want to take part on a discussion, then don't. Saying one's opinion then tell the other person not to reply... honestly?
Why would you think you got to say the last word?
Never ceases the amuse me that 15+ years after the inception of web forums, people still think they look good with this atitude.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: killerbread on April 13, 2013, 02:33:41 PM
I had 35 Euros on that site... Have they released any more information to when it will be back up?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Taduliauskas on April 13, 2013, 02:53:33 PM
Quote
Quote
Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.
Are you seriously posting on a message board addressing your conversation peer not to reply?
If you do not want to take part on a discussion, then don't. Saying one's opinion then tell the other person not to reply... honestly?
Why would you think you got to say the last word?
Never ceases the amuse me that 15+ years after the inception of web forums, people still think they look good with this atitude.

Well I would like to correct you "no need to reply" and "do not reply" is different things. 

"no need to reply" means - I don't give a f**k if you reply, because I do not see a point to continue this discussion
"do not reply" means - I give a f**k, who says the last word

In a conclusion, I could say, I don't give a f**k how I look facing the forum, I just expressing my opinion.

Quote
Quote
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.
As a developer I can tell you that you are plain wrong on this one.
He was indeed incompetent. There are still quite few markets out there, and none of them has proven to be reliable, just because he build the second biggest, it doesn't mean sh_t, it's not like the first one is a very impressive server anyway. So... no.
This bitcoin histeria attracted very many people that will do anything for quick money. Perhaps when bitcoin is well stablish the markets will play an insignificant role and be confined to their little corner. At the moment, they are the easiest way to get bitcoins, despite all their issues.
Using bitcoin24 was not a very wise idea, thats for sure. But AFAIK there is no market that has consistently proved to be reliable and serious.

Then you are saying that competent is the one who can create perfect market ? No crash, no lag, immune to hacks and so on ? If everybody would think like that, then we most likely wouldn't have any markets at all, because everyone of common exchange markets are vulnerable. But anyway this situation is just a misunderstanding, because of difference of word value...



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: xendless on April 13, 2013, 03:09:17 PM
Well, my SEPA transfer eventually came through during the crash. I had half of my assets in BTC and the other half in EUR at the site (which I have been using for a while previous to a couple of weeks ago without any problems).

I requested a SEPA withdrawal of a fair chunk of money a few hours before everything went tits up.

I'm holding out hope that he'll be able to get this sorted, and would urge people to keep in mind Hanlon's Razor* during these problems…







* Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Moebius327 on April 13, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.

-----

For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  :)
Maybe you could get in touch with him, make an offer to help. You could try via an email to the support helpdesk for Bitcoin-24.



I would really like to help as well.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 13, 2013, 03:25:14 PM
@Taduliauskas @zemario

Simon indeed was not fit for the task. He should have learned basic database theory before doing an exchange of this scale. He can become a good developer if he wants to. But not knowing about transaction was simply announcing the failure of the exchange.
If I had seen his posts before that, I would of course never have used his exchange. My mistake.

I'm supportive of Simon. This guys needs time and less pressure. Let's give him that. But let's also be honest, his development skills were not up to the task. That's all i'm saying.
I was already simply trying to give people an estimate and probabilities based on what I know. I might be off the mark, maybe you have more information than I do. But you say the engine went nuts for only a few hours before the shut down. Yes, it went nuts then, but without a proper implementation of transactions, it has been flawed for months. That's just the reality.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 13, 2013, 03:26:49 PM
I could also very easily help Simon.
I don't know if he wants help though. He has been running his exchange by himself from the beginning, knowing what his technical limitation were.
He also didn't even realize that he had to do proper KYC to run an exchange.
This is worrying, I'm not sure he realize that he needs help.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 13, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
Simons been on reddit http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Taduliauskas on April 13, 2013, 04:30:33 PM
Quote
I am waiting for the "go" from my lawyer to know, what I can write in the official statement I will give all users with email and on reddit.

Hopefully soon enough we will get more information "officially".

Quote
because the polish bank account was closed and I tried to do the business again over a German bank account.

Not so long ago, in my country, two banks had bankrupt. All procedures took ~month..


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 13, 2013, 04:36:12 PM
Quote
I am waiting for the "go" from my lawyer to know, what I can write in the official statement I will give all users with email and on reddit.

Not so long ago, in my country, two banks had bankrupt. All procedures took ~month..
thats not the case here. the bank is still functional, but the funds may well be seized due to the illegale operations.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 13, 2013, 04:38:39 PM
If someone is active on reddit (and since for some reason the operator has only posted there) might be a good idea to point out to him that trades are still occurring almost 24 hours after shutdown.

http://s2.bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/EUR


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: gugubagiBTCplease on April 13, 2013, 04:53:50 PM
Quote


Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


1.) how do you know what i write on paper and help to improve who?

2.) yeah nobody is born as a programmer,you're right. (but maybe a few) but i can learn and improve by writing a shell-script which displays me the current exchange-rate of what ever and not learning "real-life"-database-programming with the hard earned money of thousands of people. in this case i would seek for big help. you take that a little bit to easy i think. (maybe you didn't lose anything?)

3.) for me, YOUR comment was not valuable at all, because you just do what a lot of people do in forums: "tell other people to not complain and instead they should do something about it like being productive" well, thats an old shoe, a really old shoe.

4.) im not complaining, i try to express some ideas to see what people think about it thats all, i don't need you explaining me the old shoe... you taught me nothing new here

5.)"almost no fees" im not so sure about that anymore.

6.)i didnt attack this person in no way, so why you come up with this, you probably feel very smart criticize other peoples thoughts.

greets

Could you please first read consistently what I wrote, and then reply ?

1. I was talking about these ideas circumstantial presentation to Simon directly...

Quote
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.
   
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.

3-4.You can categorize or call it how you like. But still I see no arguments, that trying to look at situation calmly is worse than complaining.

5-6. ?_?

Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.




ok youre right lets stop that, doesnt make a sense to fight here and i see some pints in your arguments too... il hand you over my pipe of peace.

btw,  there is allready a thread about helping simon where ever we could. (even i think we cant afterwards..., i guess that should have been made before):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175123.20

lets hope he is good and didnt ran into something too heavy for him. but from what i read, he is not alone. i thought he did the whole project by himself...

bye


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: madc0w on April 13, 2013, 06:11:32 PM
I find it extremely suspicious that a whois search on bitcoin-24.com returns a "WhoisGuard Protected" identity.  See http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=bitcoin-24.com .

It would be helpful if bitcoin-24 admin would post some supporting documentation concerning their situation here (or any information at all, for that matter).

In the meantime, I've sent three emails to them now in the last 48 hours.  No reply yet...

One more thing: While bitcoin-24 was offline, I'd like to understand how it is possible that trades were being placed.  It's now been over 7 hours since the last trade was reported, but that is a lot more recent that the time since they've been down.

See http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

Is there some other way to trade than via the web interface?  What am I missing here?



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 13, 2013, 06:55:14 PM
Those should be old trade requests registered before the interface was taken offline. I hope. :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 13, 2013, 06:56:21 PM
Those should be old trade requests registered before the interface was taken offline. I hope. :)

Over the course of an entire day and reported with timestamps after the closure?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on April 13, 2013, 09:32:27 PM
...
One more thing: While bitcoin-24 was offline, I'd like to understand how it is possible that trades were being placed.  It's now been over 7 hours since the last trade was reported, but that is a lot more recent that the time since they've been down.

See http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

Is there some other way to trade than via the web interface?  What am I missing here?

Maybe those trades were being used internally to test database collision problems, notice sometimes two trades executing at exactly the same time. The streaming socket had not been turned off so bitcoincharts heard the tests. That's just my thoughts.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 14, 2013, 02:30:02 AM
Over the course of an entire day and reported with timestamps after the closure?
What makes you so sure the trades are timestamped at the source and not just at the destination (i.e. whatever chart website you're using)?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Milow on April 14, 2013, 02:36:04 AM
Seems like a lot of people will have issues now that the Poland SEPA account has been suspended?

Hope to see all my money back before the EU crisis hits again and everything gets lost..


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 14, 2013, 03:52:03 AM
Nobody was born a good airplane pilot either but it is not unreasonable to expect someone flying passengers to know how to fly and not unreasonable to complain when they crash.

Same with online financial transactions.

He may not have started out a scammer, but he is in a position now where he actually has to give people their stuff back or become a scammer by default.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Taduliauskas on April 14, 2013, 10:30:13 AM
News from "Reddit"

Quote
All money send to the BZWBK (Poland) bank account and which are still send to this account, can not be stopped. The Bank account in Poland is noch closed, it is just blocked! So all arriving payments will not send automatically back.

The Comerzbank (German bank account) is closed in 2 Month. We are not able, to send funds anymore from this bank account, because we had a very low limit on this bank account and I can't get money out of it. My lawyer is in contact with the bank on monday.

First of all, we must find the reason for all this, what happen. All we know is, that the German government asked for help from the Poland government, to close the Bank account in Poland. Some people are asking now: Why is not the Commerzbank still closed? The reason is, that it is not so easy in Germany to close an bank account within some minutes like it is in poland.

WHY does the German government closed our bank accounts and WHY do they give us no information, before they are doing this? WHY must we hear from the Polish government, what happening atm?

    1 Lawyer, 1 from the Government and 2 students in Poland are helping us to get the Polish Bank account back. I am sure, that we will get the bank account back, maybe also this week! So we are able to do all payouts which are open.
    Asking the Commerzbank for more information, why they also closed our bank account, wich reason did they have to do this?
    Our lawyer is trying to get the Commerzbank account back, because there is no reason, to close our bank account.
    Setting up the trading engine again

More informations tomorrow, after my lawyer gives me a feedback if it is safe to publish that, what I am writing. It is not easy atm for me to give a statement, before it was double checked.

The situation looks quite ugly, even if there are people in government to help him. Lets hope for the best !

http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46 (http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46)

Here you can follow the progress. Looks like it's the only place were Simon contact with the public officially.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 14, 2013, 11:26:51 AM
Quote from: TAiS46
yes, thats me, I have no reason to hide my self. it is not me, who must be "fucked", it is the government. official statement in this evening or tomorrow! we had no chance, to prevent this current situation.

They only pushed a button and the bank account was closed. the biggest shit is also, that we know all this thing from the poland finance ministry, and not from the german. The german told us nothing. We try also, to get a compensation from the german government for all the things happen! And I am sure, we (BTC24 Limited, my lawyers and good friend from me) can get them and pay it as a "bonus, compensation" to the BTC24 Users.
Heh, that would be very reassuring.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: numo on April 14, 2013, 12:51:13 PM
The situation looks quite ugly, even if there are people in government to help him. Lets hope for the best !
The situation could turn out quite ugly also for the users. Everyone who sent the money to or from that account is now connected with an account suspected to be used for money laundering. Not fun  >:(


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 14, 2013, 05:28:41 PM
So his only contact with people is his one way conduit of information on Reddit?

I suspect the eventual outcome will be this:

Everything is so horribly wrong that the only outcome is that I keep everything.  Sorry.  In the mean time please read my reddit posts so that you may replace your anger at me with pity.

I predict that other bitcoin based "financial services" will end up like this soon too.  So if any of you who moved on from say Anime Enthusiast who did some php programming on the side to trading virtual currency to Ringgit and are worried about facing the death penalty in whatever Confucian country you based your business out of, you may either want to:

1. Run.  Drop shop, keep on posting reassuring things about how you are running into technical problems because bitcoins are so awesome and they should be fixed by the time your plane lands in Paraguay your upstream provider resolves the glitch.

2. PM me.  I work with financial modeling.  I will give you free advice (which will be how to hire and find a competent person to fix your site) or I will give you my own rates (I am expensive).

I expect most of you to run, and perhaps consider Paraguay for the first time after reading it here.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: BitcoinFreak123 on April 14, 2013, 06:02:07 PM
OMG you guys must be kidding me ??
I had a few hundreds of euros on there. not a huge deal. But i had 400 bitcoins on it too  >:( >:( My frigging' life savings.

He's not replying to my e-mail and it's more than 30 hours passed.


I want my 400 BTC back asap!

Can anyone PM me this guy his details, i am gonna sue him, i'm taking this serious, this is a shitload of money!

What do you guys think will happen?? OK, money maybe frozen, but the btc must be in there, if not, i will sue this guy.

Thanks to everyone who can help me.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: horsebox1 on April 14, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
OMG you guys must be kidding me ??
I had a few hundreds of euros on there. not a huge deal. But i had 400 bitcoins on it too  >:( >:( My frigging' life savings.

He's not replying to my e-mail and it's more than 30 hours passed.


I want my 400 BTC back asap!

Can anyone PM me this guy his details, i am gonna sue him, i'm taking this serious, this is a shitload of money!

What do you guys think will happen?? OK, money maybe frozen, but the btc must be in there, if not, i will sue this guy.

Thanks to everyone who can help me.

You're not the only one.

If you read all the threads on it here and on reddit you'll see he's not disappeared and is working on it. Don't do anything that is going to slow him down.

I have more to lose than you do but i dont see what other option we really have at this point.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 14, 2013, 06:35:50 PM
I'm starting to think TCollar is better ignored for now because he likes to spread FUD about this situation a little bit too much. Rational people know it's better to just wait and see what happens during the next work week rather than sling mud at Simon on this topic.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 14, 2013, 06:40:47 PM
I'm starting to think TCollar is better ignored for now because he likes to spread FUD about this situation a little bit too much. Rational people know it's better to just wait and see what happens during the next work week rather than sling mud at Simon on this topic.

OK.

I am sure everything will be fine on Monday.  The 24 year old DJ turned international money trader will sort stuff out because that is what DJs turned financiers are best at doing.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: alexh on April 14, 2013, 06:53:57 PM
Quote
You're not the only one.

If you read all the threads on it here and on reddit you'll see he's not disappeared and is working on it. Don't do anything that is going to slow him down.

I have more to lose than you do but i dont see what other option we really have at this point.

Exactly, there is nothing productive for us to do if we want our money back.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 14, 2013, 09:14:34 PM
The alarming thing is he hasn't mentioned a single thing about BTC (or the lack of BTC due to double trading).  If there is no issue with the BTC then open the site up to only allow withdraw of BTC.  Simple.  Suddenly the average exposure for most users is cut in half.  I would also be a good faith effort.

The fact that he hasn't done this (and has from his limited responses just ignored the concept of BTC completely) is suspicious.  My guess (just a total guess based on prior history)
a) he can't because BTC owed is > BTC available.  If true he should announce that now.  It has nothing to do w/ frozen Euros so get the truth out in the open.
b) he doesn't intend on returning the BTC.  If true I hope some users in Germany have good lawyers.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 14, 2013, 10:22:04 PM
New update from Simon on reddit. Did not get much wiser. http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: tredel on April 14, 2013, 10:29:07 PM
I have a serious problem with this site.

They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I would strongly suggest you stay away from that place until I have sorted this out.

Admin have answered only after 5 days, and promised to fix, BUT, Nothing happens and no answer.

No answer at ANY address!

This is serious and I welcome any help.

Has this been resolved yet?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Finski on April 14, 2013, 10:30:20 PM
New update from Simon on reddit. Did not get much wiser. http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/

That's good news IMHO. The case that Deutsche Bank has on him seems much thinner (albeit still a serious issue) than all the speculation and FUD that has been going around would have had us believe. Amidst all this I've actually found that Simon is an all right chap.. Although maybe a little naïve when it comes to legal issues.

EDIT: Typos...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 14, 2013, 10:37:07 PM
Possibly, but by this time he should have found the opportunity to give some concentrated info, not just another "random answers" on reddit. I for one would like to know about the status of the comerzbank account since I have 1500 euro arriving there tomorrow. Is it frozen? transaction limit? When can we expect refunds? etc.....


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: zemario on April 15, 2013, 12:02:27 AM
Copy-paste from his last message in reddit
Quote
Little Update! As some of you know, I had some problems with the German bank accounts in the past. I have solved the problem with moving to Poland and we had also never problems with them.
Why does this all happen? The "Deutsche Bank" in Germany had some phishing attacks / hacker and some funds where send to my bank account. This attacks does not stop on the "Deutsche Bank", because it seems, that it is a very stupid bank! So they closed my bank accounts in Germany and I got an invite from the German police, to tell them, what I am doing. After that I had no problems but my Bank accounts where closed. (this all happen in the start time of bitcoin-24)
In my opinion the problems where fixed. I moved to poland and make all business on the BZWBK. The Germans are now fighting against me and the "Deutsche Bank" has still the same problems, that people are sending me money from stolen bank accounts! THATS NOT MY PROBLEM! The only thing I can do now is to not accept payments from the "Deutsche Bank".
The Germans think now, that I am trying to get money with this methode. So they look now, where I have money and try to close all bank accounts.
Why in Poland? The Germans think, I am a criminal guy and they will stop the crime. They asked the poland for help and they closed my bank account in poland.
I have 7 days to make something against this, otherwise my bank account will be closed for the next 3 month! I am very sure, that we can get back the bank account in the next time. I will not give you a promise, but it is possible, that I will get back the bank account in the next week.
(sorry for my bad english)

So yeah, he is already preparing ground to make everybody wait for three months. "Just wait", typical scammer strategy, make everybody wait until the eventually loose hope of getting back what would be rightfully theirs.
He is already "giving promises" but people don't want promises, they want their money.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 15, 2013, 12:17:19 AM
I love FUDders, don't you? They always help resolve tricky situations so much faster...
 ::)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: MrBudgens on April 15, 2013, 12:33:40 AM
If he is a scammer then what purpose does it serve to continue to post updates?  He has the money and the BTC so what more would he need?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on April 15, 2013, 12:34:55 AM
DO NOT TRUST THE BY AN NEW POSTER ANNOUNCED "ALPHA" OF BTC24

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO SCAM PPL

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9f9fcp (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9f9fcp)

EDIT:

CHECK IF POSTET IN OTHER RELATED THREADS, IF NOT, DO SO


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 15, 2013, 12:36:05 AM
If he is a scammer then what purpose does it serve to continue to post updates?  He has the money and the BTC so what more would he need?

Well I am not saying he IS a scammer but Pirate for example provided "updates" for weeks before running away with the funds.  It is a psychological trick used to let someone down slowly.  At day 0 of the scam so many people are active and highly pissed off all it takes is one to track you down and feed you a brick to ruin your day.   But as the weeks role by as the victims hold out hope slowly they get use to the idea they have lost their funds and move on.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 15, 2013, 01:07:01 AM
DO NOT TRUST THE BY AN NEW POSTER ANNOUNCED "ALPHA" OF BTC24

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO SCAM PPL
What the above meant to say was "Do NOT enter your BTC24 username and password here: alpha.bitcoin-24x.com because it's a phishing scam meant to steal your money, it's NOT a new website created by Simon Hausdorf."


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bitcoin_fanatic on April 15, 2013, 07:21:55 AM
Does someone one where this guy Simon lives?
I can't seem to figure why doesn't he allows bitcoin withdrawals, this shouldn't be a problem whether his bank account is closed or not.
BEWARE people he might be a scammer, if he wasn't he would have allowed us to withdraw our bitcoins.
This situation is damn serious, this was the biggest euro market.
And now we're learning that this huge stockmarket was controlled by a youngster with no freaking experience!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 15, 2013, 08:39:20 AM
I really wish he would release our bitcoins. Let the Euros stay for a few days/weeks. But need the BTC now.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 15, 2013, 08:54:33 AM
Latest news from Simon is that all passwords will be reset in the 2.0 version, I suppose this is to undo potensial scams after the phishing attempt?

Really wish he would get of his ass and give a statement concerning funds and BTCs.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: EdsWow1 on April 15, 2013, 10:08:41 AM
last night there came also some messages via twitter:

https://twitter.com/Bitcoin24com (https://twitter.com/Bitcoin24com)

does not sound good to me.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: EdsWow1 on April 15, 2013, 10:15:19 AM
Is the Twitter-Account real ??

he writes there, last night:

Quote
Bank are saying, that they will support Bitcoin! But they don't. It is time for a press release, that the banks will NOT accept Bitcoins!

and then:

Quote
It is time for something new. A new big business and a very serious Company, which can not be fuc***! We will be back for sure!


this postings:

joke or real ?

 ??? ???



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 15, 2013, 11:05:47 AM
Hard to say, he seems to think the most important thing to his customers is to get back the opportunity to trade at btc24, while what we really want is to know our funds and coins are safe. The longer he takes to convince us about this the more credibility he and his site will loose.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: phlogistonq on April 15, 2013, 11:14:36 AM
It is also strange that he has so for not made a single comment about the bug that occurred on the last day before the site closed.
It is conceivable that despite this bug the balance is OK, i.e. the fiat/BTC available does match the sum on the accounts. Even if it doesn't the loss could be insignificant because there was little possibility to get BTC or fiat out of the site on the last day and the bug was very rare before then.

but he should tell us whether this is the case or not.

Given that he is clearly trying to comfort us, I fear the worst. Else he would have already confirmed that everyones funds are covered.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: BitcoinFreak123 on April 15, 2013, 11:18:39 AM
What a BS. Why does he still put up that e-mail address is he doesn't respond to any e-mail.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 12:41:02 PM
New post from tais46, 8 minutes ago:

Quote
objection is send to the PL government! hope to get the bank account open this week. but I am sure we can clear this. I can't say a date, sorry for that.

I believe this guy is really working his butt off to clear stuff up; he's a little bit naieve though.
I trust him but I don't trust the banks he's doing business with though...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: andy-bc on April 15, 2013, 02:17:36 PM

Quote
objection is send to the PL government! hope to get the bank account open this week. but I am sure we can clear this. I can't say a date, sorry for that.

All this information about the "Polish government", "Polish authorities" and "closing the account" is hopelessly unclear. Without more information we might assume that the bank account was simply blocked/frozen (but not closed) by the bank due to some kind of AML procedure.

If the bitcoin-24 owner shared the contents of the official communication from the bank or from these unknown "authorities" concerning the problem, we could speculate more.
By the way, Polish bitcoin community exists and some of its members could perhaps give some useful hints, if only the bitcoin-24 owner cared to describe his problems with the Polish bank in more detail.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 15, 2013, 02:49:52 PM

If the bitcoin-24 owner shared the contents of the official communication from the bank or from these unknown "authorities" concerning the problem, we could speculate more.


Agreed, these vague answers on reddit is starting to piss me off, and the mood in the reddit thread is turning quite hostile now.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 04:18:43 PM
I understand everyone is fucked up about the situation. I also have a five figure stake at Bitcoin24; but I do believe the guy running it is honest. His decisions have just been poor.  Reading all his messages at: http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46 gives me the idea he's doing his best.

He mentioned he'd come back with some answers today, so I give him the benefit of the doubt. The last thing he needs are lawsuits on top of this pile of shit. I just can't believe he's having a comfortable sleep over this; not with all his details out on public and all.

My guess is that the cause of this is indeed some kind of AML-issue. If this is indeed the case, wouldn't this be settled when all accounts are verified via propper ID?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 15, 2013, 04:54:20 PM
On friday, I was ok to give the guy time to sort things out.
Today, i'm starting to feel a bit more angry.

Simon: do your database rollback, check for duplicates manually, reconcile your accounts and see how many bitcoins you can give back to people. We all hope not more than 10% of our bitcoins have been lost in your fucked up engine.

As for the money, as said before I had 21,000 EUR there.
My feeling is that the money is safe, but lost. On such events, banks usually freeze the money for years. Most of the time, they never give it back until a court order has been given to give the money back. It can take 5-10 years for this to happen.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 05:16:33 PM
On friday, I was ok to give the guy time to sort things out.
Today, i'm starting to feel a bit more angry.

Simon: do your database rollback, check for duplicates manually, reconcile your accounts and see how many bitcoins you can give back to people. We all hope not more than 10% of our bitcoins have been lost in your fucked up engine.

As for the money, as said before I had 21,000 EUR there.
My feeling is that the money is safe, but lost. On such events, banks usually freeze the money for years. Most of the time, they never give it back until a court order has been given to give the money back. It can take 5-10 years for this to happen.

Why so long?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 07:35:03 PM
Apparantly, according to the following facebook post, Simon posted a little while ago mentioning the roll-back is succesful and he is waiting for the polish bank.

https://www.facebook.com/bitcoin.24/posts/622449231101962?comment_id=7172850


Edit:

New post by Simon

http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/

Quote
my lawyer is saying, which information i can give to you. also that I can't publish a ETA when we are online again. But when I say, we are back on friday, and we are not back on friday, I have much more problems.

Edit 2:

Another one
Quote
hey, it is ok to go to the police or your own lawyer. at this moment it would also help us, to make a collective suit to the banks and german government.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on April 15, 2013, 07:53:30 PM
Simon should do a quick youtube video.

Do it in German language no problem.

At least show his face and give us a quick reassurance with his voice.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 08:00:07 PM
I hope I'm not spamming this chat but here's more info I digged up. Just posted a few seconds ago.

Quote
-tell us how much money (in btc or $) that was lost due to the buggy engine
-tell us when you will have finished the roll back of transactions and what will be the policy
-tell us when we can start withdrawing our money
-stop talking about your bank accounts problems for a while
-stop whining about the german governement (you are faulty)
-give us updates often (at least once per day)


Quote
-0
-all double trades where reset.
-I can't. If I give you a date, you insist on it. My lawyer told me the same
-Ok, so I will not talk again about banks and when they open the bank account again.
-I am not. My lawyer is saying the same. They have no right to close my bank account
-I am trying it as you can see!

I can understand his point of view... if he tells us a date and he can't make it, everyone will be pissed^10
...which actually is hard to imagine seeing how angry everyone is already...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 15, 2013, 08:14:04 PM
I love FUDders, don't you? They always help resolve tricky situations so much faster...
 ::)

I hear everything is going very well now in spite of what it looks like.

Once I saw a bunch of sheep that were mutilated in a field.  I wondered if a wolf had attacked them, and then someone said "Don't cry wolf...people will jump to conclusions" so I didn't and everything was fine.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 15, 2013, 08:16:13 PM
http://kuttler.eu/post/what-happened-bitcoin24/

"Hi, I have to clear some things up.
As you mentioned in your post, I said on IRC that around 6000 BTC left the Hotwallet that day and well.. I was wrong. I also included incoming transfers in my first calculation (oops) and actually "only" 4800 BTC left the Hotwallet (see: http://hastebin.com/hunetanuyo.pl). However I don't think that the trading engine bug was a big problem at all. If you look at z3c0's paste, you can see that double trades started to occur at 12:00 and the last withdrawel was at 11:03, so all money seems to be still in the system. I hope this helps some people to calm down a little ;) Thx for your blog! Keep us updated."

Good news.

Also

"Ok, here we go >
They can't say a lot, but THIS lawfirm that is mentioned on the imprint has not been doing anything this
weekend, since their lawyer for "Polish Affairs' is on holiday >
nobody called their yet about bitcoin-24, we were the first to call
Frau [edit] will get back to us tomorrow, she is the laywer for "Polish affairs" in this lawfirm, she
was on holidays, so what simon says "his laywers are busy with it" is not true, or it is another lawfirm... but
not the one on his imprint
they will however say tomorrow morning more to us, they can give some statement, but they didn't know a lot
about this , so it's not that important or not a lot is known here...
could be, because "bitcoin-24" did not ring a bell to them...
could be that this is not the lawfirm of bitcoin-24 at all...
not a lot of good info... I don't trust it
so we need to know WHICH Lawfirm represents Simon !
very important, put it on the Redditss & Facebook !
but with the "flying to poland with our laywers" it's not this lawfirm...
so we need a confirmation from Simon, who actually is his "lawfirm" because the one on his imprint didn't know
anything about it
so again, the lawfirm mentioned on bitcoin-24's imprint, probably has nothing to do with it, So we need Simon
to say, which lawfirm represents him, somebody should ask this on the reddits & facebook"

Slightly disturbing news.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 15, 2013, 08:33:40 PM
So when he was saying his lawyers were applying pressure that meant his lawyers had never heard of it until some person called them.

Or am I spreading FUD?



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 15, 2013, 08:44:44 PM
You're avidly attaching yourself to every little piece of seemingly bad news and insisting on blowing a trumpet about it every time, calling Simon names and making smart-ass comments with not a single constructive word in them, so yes, you're still a FUDder to me.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Moebius327 on April 15, 2013, 08:48:28 PM
So when he was saying his lawyers were applying pressure that meant his lawyers had never heard of it until some person called them.

Or am I spreading FUD?



Some person called the lawyers whose legal statement Simon grabbed from their website. I would really like to know who is Simon's lawyer.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
If the bitcoin community is a good reflection of real life stock brokers, then I can see why the slightest amount of FUD causes so much turmoil on the reallife exchanges. Just look at what happend with Gox a couple of days ago.. if everyone would've kept their cool for a while, instead of all the hysteria, stuff usually, works out.

The only one who knows whats going on is Simon, and while I agree he should give more information, I still believe he's doing all that's in his power to solve it.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 15, 2013, 09:09:41 PM
You're avidly attaching yourself to every little piece of seemingly bad news and insisting on blowing a trumpet about it every time, calling Simon names and making smart-ass comments with not a single constructive word in them, so yes, you're still a FUDder to me.

I am.  Bad news needs to be dissected and exposed.  Like it good areas of the more mainstream economy things like my eventless and pleasant bitcoin selling at Starbucks do not need to be mentioned though they happen every other day.  Others like me have similar experiences.

Why not use pressure to make Simon be more honest about what is happening and hope it serves as a cautionary tale for the next person with no experience who says "hey!  I know!  A bitcoin exchange for hard currency!  What could possibly go wrong?"

To me FUD is "bitcoin is untested...in spite of its daily use I dunno" and not "Scams look scammy so maybe scammy looking things is also a scam?"



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 15, 2013, 09:13:41 PM
I still believe he's doing all that's in his power to solve it.

I´m giving him the benefit of the doubt, but he really should have himself a crashcourse in communication.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 09:17:05 PM
I still believe he's doing all that's in his power to solve it.

I´m giving him the benefit of the doubt, but he really should have himself a crashcourse in communication.

+1000 on that.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 09:21:47 PM
Quote
our engine is checking the account balance before withdrawing. with this issues we had, the orders are not succeeded completely. But the users has seen it in their accounts.
tonight we are working on a withdrawing page. I hope that I can publish it tomorrow in the day.
dollars and bitcoins withdrawals will be allowed asap, before EUR withdrawing, because only the EUR bank account is closed, not the USD, GBP and PLN.
There you can also see, that I (Simon Hausdorf) have no problems with the government. It is only the bank account wich has problems! If I had problems, they should also close my private bank account and also the BTC24 Limited USD, GBP AND PLN Bank accounts on the same bank!
source: http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/comments/

He seems rather active today. He also wrote a German reply; my german is a bit rusty but I believe he is using the same lawyers MtGox is using in Poland.
Next to that, he plans to sue for loss of income..but we already knew about that plan.

I'm getting slightly more hopefull. I hope when this shit does gets solved, everyone spreading FUD will have the damn courtesy to give him a donation.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Dennichio on April 15, 2013, 09:30:33 PM
I did a transaction to my bitcoin 24 account last thursday, before the shutdown. Does anyone know if the deposit will get canceled?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: MagicBit15 on April 15, 2013, 09:31:41 PM
I have hear seperate issues as well definitely stay away!!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 15, 2013, 11:14:56 PM
The pastebin holds a lot of information!

5 million has been frozen in Poland.. but apparantly there is a back-up account which has about 2 million.

Also:

Quote
<TAiS46> Casimir1904 / all: if they really froze the bank account for 3 month! I will sell my private bitcoins for you money. I will think about, how I will handle it. maybe that the user can only exchange some % of their money to BTC … but i must also ask my lawyer what he says about this.

.. I think a lot of hysteric people misjudged this guy...



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on April 15, 2013, 11:33:57 PM
Quote
-tell us how much money (in btc or $) that was lost due to the buggy engine

Quote
-0

Here are my experiences with btc24:
- A friend of mine told me in January that his coins were doubled after buying some and he could withdraw them (karma -1 for him)
- In January after buying coins for myself they were credited doubled too (+49 BTC). I told this to support on irc to the user "unflux" and I after that my balance was -49 BTC on the website
- In Feburary after buying bitcoins they were not credited. I talked to support via emall and they were credited. This happend another time but was also solved by support.
- One week ago I withdrew 53,99 BTC and they were not credited. Status "confirmed" but nothing in blockchain.

Ok. It looks like the mutliply bug was in effect since January and wasnt solved by code changes. I think they were hardcoding the balance changes directly in the mysql database. If this is the case TAiS46 has to deal with a fucked up and inconsitent database.
It is very hard to believe that no coins were lost.

So...Our funds are safe? Please convince me that they still are.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on April 16, 2013, 12:22:48 AM
The pastebin holds a lot of information!

5 million has been frozen in Poland.. but apparantly there is a back-up account which has about 2 million.

Also:

Quote
<TAiS46> Casimir1904 / all: if they really froze the bank account for 3 month! I will sell my private bitcoins for you money. I will think about, how I will handle it. maybe that the user can only exchange some % of their money to BTC … but i must also ask my lawyer what he says about this.

.. I think a lot of hysteric people misjudged this guy...



So does this mean that all Bitcoins will be safe and some % of money will be safe?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 16, 2013, 05:49:07 AM
The pastebin holds a lot of information!

5 million has been frozen in Poland.. but apparantly there is a back-up account which has about 2 million.

Also:

Quote
<TAiS46> Casimir1904 / all: if they really froze the bank account for 3 month! I will sell my private bitcoins for you money. I will think about, how I will handle it. maybe that the user can only exchange some % of their money to BTC … but i must also ask my lawyer what he says about this.

.. I think a lot of hysteric people misjudged this guy...



So does this mean that all Bitcoins will be safe and some % of money will be safe?

If I do simple math, the bitcoins are 100% safe while with Euro's you now have a ~50% guarantee dependant on how quickly the polish bank opens up.

While I'm still worried what course this polish bank affaire will go, he mentioned he can still withdraw USD's and polish money. If that really is the case, then I expect it to be cleared soon and no later than 3 months max. Which is a lot ofcourse, but I heard some guy mentioning 5-10 years.. which would be a horror scenario.

Anyhow, if the withdrawals for USD/PLN's are indeed succesfull, then I expect this to blow over very soon.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: BitcoinFreak123 on April 16, 2013, 08:22:22 AM
HEY SIMON, IF YOU GIVE ACCESS TO MY 400 BITCOINS (AT TIME OF BLOCKING WORTH ALMOST 80 EURO) WHNE THEY ARE WORTH 40 EURO, YOU MIGHT ALSO JUST NOT GIVE THEM AT ALL. HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, IF YOU GIVE THEM BACK WHEN THEY ARE WORTH NOTHING YOU CAN KEEP THEM FROM ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 16, 2013, 09:02:51 AM
Does anybody, by chance, have the account data for the Polish bank account, maybe even for the German one?
Sending my lawyer after my 15000€.

The Bafin has nothing on bitcoin-24 and Simon.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 16, 2013, 09:03:54 AM
The Bafin has nothing on bitcoin-24 and Simon.

By this I mean that my lawyer inquired with BAFIN  and it turned up nothing.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: keatonatron on April 16, 2013, 09:34:37 AM
HEY SIMON, IF YOU GIVE ACCESS TO MY 400 BITCOINS (AT TIME OF BLOCKING WORTH ALMOST 80 EURO) WHNE THEY ARE WORTH 40 EURO, YOU MIGHT ALSO JUST NOT GIVE THEM AT ALL. HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, IF YOU GIVE THEM BACK WHEN THEY ARE WORTH NOTHING YOU CAN KEEP THEM FROM ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!

Can I have them then?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 16, 2013, 09:45:46 AM
Does anybody, by chance, have the account data for the Polish bank account, maybe even for the German one?



+1


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ninjaboon on April 16, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
So does bitcoin-24.com still have problems? If yes, I will ask my customers to stay away from them.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 16, 2013, 10:02:27 AM
So does bitcoin-24.com still have problems? If yes, I will ask my customers to stay away from them.

Take a look https://bitcoin-24.com/


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Miz4r on April 16, 2013, 10:03:13 AM
UPDATE: Bitcoin24 users will most likely be able to withdraw BTC and $ tomorrow

http://pastebin.com/btZt178B (http://pastebin.com/btZt178B)

So can you explain how we go about withdrawing our BTC and cash? Site still says nothing..


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: huntman on April 16, 2013, 11:23:52 AM
UPDATE: Bitcoin24 users will most likely be able to withdraw BTC and $ tomorrow

http://pastebin.com/btZt178B (http://pastebin.com/btZt178B)

So can you explain how we go about withdrawing our BTC and cash? Site still says nothing..

This is worst experience I ever had online. This DJ sucks and fucks us all!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: vibornoff on April 16, 2013, 11:30:13 AM
Ohh... I'm very happy to withdraw my funds before ship happened  8)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: huntman on April 16, 2013, 11:39:50 AM
Ohh... I'm very happy to withdraw my funds before ship happened  8)

wait it gets even better.

"Q:Would it help if all users sent you "verification" material (ID, proff of residency, origin of moneu) ? A:I don't think that it would help and it has also not helped in the past".

Does anybody else feel things are not looking great with this site? I mean what could possibly go wrong, if you hand over 8 -10 millionen Euros to a 23 year DJ ?

"Q: A:i am trying really really everythiny to bet BTC24 online! i am traveling around the "world" to lawyer in poland, germany and clear all thinks. i am only at my mobile phone and trying to reach something"

the world? since when is Germany and poland the world? "Clear all things" .....lol
this better be typo or is he revealing his plans here?




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: NeddeN on April 16, 2013, 11:42:30 AM
UPDATE: Bitcoin24 users will most likely be able to withdraw BTC and $ tomorrow

http://pastebin.com/btZt178B (http://pastebin.com/btZt178B)

So can you explain how we go about withdrawing our BTC and cash? Site still says nothing..

This is worst experience I ever had online. This DJ sucks and fucks us all!

It seems to me, we are the ones sucking him and getting fucked...
...I still wait and hope he can sort this out.

But there's one thing I really don't get, how can anyone deposit a large amount of money on a site without knowing anything about the man behind it? I lose money too, if he fucks up, but it was "gambling money", nothing that would hurt me. I would never get the idea of putting my savings there.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: xchrix on April 16, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
think about this:
1. simon closes btc24 -> tell a good story
2. takes our bitcoins and sells them on other exchanges while the price is falling
3. waiting some days/weeks
4. buy back all those BTC for cheaper money
5. open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
6. profit!

could be. could be not...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: brainzlo on April 16, 2013, 12:32:53 PM
think about this:
1. simon closes btc24 -> tell a good story
2. takes our bitcoins and sells them on other exchanges while the price is falling
3. waiting some days/weeks
4. buy back all those BTC for cheaper money
5. open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
6. profit!

could be. could be not...

Sounds like the Masterplan!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on April 16, 2013, 12:44:15 PM
think about this:
1. simon closes btc24 -> tell a good story
2. takes our bitcoins and sells them on other exchanges while the price is falling
3. waiting some days/weeks
4. buy back all those BTC for cheaper money
5. open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
6. profit!
could be. could be not...

Sounds like crap!

You bet on a falling price, handling a volume of 10.000 BTC for that would mean 10.000 loss/profit each $/€ moved for example. Very very risky game, i would get him for suspicion of embezzlement if he'd do this!

Other point of view is, an eye is kept on all known wallets now. It will get someones attention sooner or later, and i think he is clever enough to know that!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 16, 2013, 02:57:17 PM
Careful everyone....You MAY be accused of spreading FUD.

There are two kinds of scammers. 

The intentional scammer, If I sold you stuff that I had no intention of sending you so that I could keep your money that would make me an intentional scammer.  I have no ASICs.  Who Wants to buy my ASICs?  (I take as much money as possible)

The Accidental Scammer.   I become a "bank" and offer to trade and invest while keeping your initial deposit safe.  I am balls-out stupid so I lose your cash and cannot repay or I am stuck, unable to conduct business legally but I have all this cash.  My intentions were good but I scammed you anyway due to my own clumsiness.

So I think Simon is falling into the accidental scammer category.  But he is not helping things by assuming an IRC log or Reddit offers any real explanation to people who have lost money (I am not one of them because I research the hell out of everyone).

Bitcoin may not be viewed as anything more than a "file" by law.  In the USA when the IRS seizes physical assets and someone claims those assets seized belonged to them and not the tax evader, then they have to produce a record that shows in some way that those assets belong to them.  So, those of you with BTC on bitcoin-24.com should start documenting a "digital trail" to the best of your ability to prove those electronic "files" belong to you and not the owner of the computer. (even then this might not work).  Also document the time and resources it took to aquire these "files" (BTC) because that might be your recompense if not the BTC themselves.

For cash, you might have it easier.  Prove it was your cash taken and they should have to return it to you.

In the US tracking assets is fairly easy because we don't have any of those privacy laws the EU and the UK have, so asset information can be found easily (like if someone claiming poverty just registered a new Mercedes) but I have no clue on the EU and how to track assets within those countries.

Good luck all and sorry you lost assets.

And Simon,  return as many BTC as possible before starting "2.0".  If you get into online financial trading again then hire someone to do the database for you who has experience in financials and can provide references that check out.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: xchrix on April 16, 2013, 03:12:49 PM
Careful everyone....You MAY be accused of spreading FUD.

these were just some thoughts. i am not saying that this is the reality. just the way you can make some profit with falling prices and a lot of BTCs in your hand!

i do also think that simon is a good guy and wasnt prepared for this huge bitcoin "bubble"! i do also think that losing money is our (the users of bitcoin-24) fault! because we have sent huge amounts to an exchange knowing nearly nothing about the operator -> we have learnt nothing  :-\


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 16, 2013, 03:39:56 PM
The problem here is that Simon could easily have given our BTC back already.
Extremely easy to do. He says he's working on a withdrawal page.
If this is done within a few days, then we can be sure he didn't loose any BTC in the engine fuck ups. And pretty sure he didn't loose and fiat either.
But he hasn't done this withdrawal page yet, and it's been 5 days. So let's see until the end of the week.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 16, 2013, 03:45:33 PM
The problem here is that Simon could easily have given our BTC back already.
Extremely easy to do. He says he's working on a withdrawal page.
If this is done within a few days, then we can be sure he didn't loose any BTC in the engine fuck ups. And pretty sure he didn't loose and fiat either.
But he hasn't done this withdrawal page yet, and it's been 5 days. So let's see until the end of the week.

Since he is so good at setting up exchanges I bet his withdrawal page will be both timely and flawless.

BTC:  The fastest peer to peer value transfer the world has ever seen and he needs to set up a "withdrawal page"



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 16, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
The problem here is that Simon could easily have given our BTC back already.
Extremely easy to do. He says he's working on a withdrawal page.
If this is done within a few days, then we can be sure he didn't loose any BTC in the engine fuck ups. And pretty sure he didn't loose and fiat either.
But he hasn't done this withdrawal page yet, and it's been 5 days. So let's see until the end of the week.

Since he is so good at setting up exchanges I bet his withdrawal page will be both timely and flawless.

BTC:  The fastest peer to peer value transfer the world has ever seen and he needs to set up a "withdrawal page"



We all know he's officially one of the worst developer in the world, so let's give him a few days for this task.

Another thing that worries me, is that he says he just hired some developer, and that the developer is doing all the database transactions fixing for him. Sounds like this "developer" has his hands on a lot of money right now with very little supervision. I wish somebody warns this Simon about such issues. I also hope people will tell Simon not to reopen Bitcoin 24. Never ever. Simon has to focus on his DJ career.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: FTWbitcoinFTW on April 16, 2013, 04:22:59 PM
Soo 7M€ on bank account but you still ask advice on forum for your trading engine

Simon... Srsly ?  :-\


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Brythe on April 16, 2013, 04:25:06 PM
Quote
Tweets
 Bitcoin-24.com ‏@Bitcoin24com 14 Apr
It is time for something new. A new big business and a very serious Company, which can not be fuc***! We will be back for sure!

Expand
 Bitcoin-24.com ‏@Bitcoin24com 14 Apr
Bank are saying, that they will support Bitcoin! But they don't. It is time for a press release, that the banks will NOT accept Bitcoins!

Expand
 Bitcoin-24.com ‏@Bitcoin24com 14 Apr
Waiting for the official statement from my lawyer. Tomorrow we will publish more informations.
Expand

https://twitter.com/Bitcoin24com

Whatever that means.

 It's been tomorrow twice.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Butterkeks on April 16, 2013, 04:27:09 PM
Does anybody, by chance, have the account data for the Polish bank account, maybe even for the German one?
Sending my lawyer after my 15000€.

Polish bank account:
BTC24 LIMITED
IBAN: PL1810901115000000012021902PL
BANK: ZACHODNI WBK

I can probably get you the German account in a few hours.

The Bafin has nothing on bitcoin-24 and Simon.

Thanks for the info. Did you check with the FSA, too?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 16, 2013, 04:36:28 PM
Well the fact that he hasn't returned the BTC isn't looking very good.  Yes bank generally speaking suck and resolving banking issues can take a while (as an example more people are compared with when PayPal freezes an account you can wait 180 days before getting a check). 

None of that has anything to do with not allowing clients to withdraw BTC.  No reason to not allow the return of BTC.  The more time passes that the BTC haven't been returned the worse it probably is.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: FTWbitcoinFTW on April 16, 2013, 04:41:49 PM
But the fact he's still communicate & give update

http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46 (http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46)
Quote
tonight we are working on a withdrawing page. I hope that I can publish it tomorrow in the day.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 16, 2013, 04:50:03 PM
But the fact he's still communicate & give update

http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46 (http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46)
Quote
tonight we are working on a withdrawing page. I hope that I can publish it tomorrow in the day.

I hope it works out but updates on reddit aren't worth anything.  Pirate promised a lot of stuff to a lot of people for a long time.  It didn't change the outcome.  Results are all that matter now.  If clients can remove BTC today then the fiat is likely safeish.  Worst case scenario it likely means a long delay and maybe some AML paperwork junk.  If clients still don't have their BTC today then the fiat is likely gone too.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 16, 2013, 04:59:02 PM
simon closes btc24
[...]
while the price is falling
[...]
open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
Excuse me? I consider it very real harm that the exchange has been closed during 2-3 major price drops because I couldn't use my money to trade back and forth and benefit from those drops. It's not "no harm to the users" at all.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: huntman on April 16, 2013, 05:04:33 PM
simon closes btc24
[...]
while the price is falling
[...]
open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
Ecuse me? I consider it very real harm that the exchange has been closed during 2-3 major price drops because I couldn't use my money to trade back and forth and benefit from those drops. It's not "no harm to the users" at all.

I am just about to throw up.

Did you all know he might have broken another law? How did he make sure that no minors were doing  business on his site?
Damn.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: andy-bc on April 16, 2013, 05:21:04 PM
IBAN: PL1810901115000000012021902PL

This IBAN number seems to be incorrect.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: EdsWow1 on April 16, 2013, 05:35:37 PM
he should sell his story ... to hollywood.

could be really good comedy (and/or tragedy).

remembers me on laurel & hardy. but too bad, theres no hardy.

titel: "stan and the polish lawyer"

too bad, that stan is gone. but jerry lewis is still alive.

big show.


Btw ... why the hell has he already to ask the lawyer, what he is allowed to tell..... *US* ??


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 16, 2013, 05:36:15 PM
I am just about to throw up.
Really? Well get a bag 'cos I've got more good stuff for you: denying someone access to or the use of something that belongs to them is the very definition of theft. That's why theft was considered a bad thing all this time: it leaves you unable to benefit from something you had the right to benefit from. (You can thank me for this little lesson later, after you're done with your misplaced sarcasm routine.)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Cheshyr on April 16, 2013, 05:38:27 PM
Glad I cashed out of that site fairly early.  Strange they're having so many problems though.  I guess there's a minimum level of professionalism required to operate an exchange; who'd have thought?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Butterkeks on April 16, 2013, 05:48:12 PM
IBAN: PL1810901115000000012021902PL

This IBAN number seems to be incorrect.

You're right... and I'm seriously confused now. I used "Sofortüberweisung" and that's were it sent the money, which has also been debited from my account. ??? I'll try to figure this out.

German bank account (through Giropay):
SIMON H.
Bank account no: 0322935800
Bankleitzahl: 29040090
Bank: Commerzbank Bremen


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 16, 2013, 06:09:05 PM
Excuse me? I consider it very real harm that the exchange has been closed during 2-3 major price drops because I couldn't use my money to trade back and forth and benefit from those drops. It's not "no harm to the users" at all.


I get it.  It's FUD until you can't make money.

Quote from: donjoe
You're avidly attaching yourself to every little piece of seemingly bad news and insisting on blowing a trumpet about it every time, calling Simon names and making smart-ass comments with not a single constructive word in them, so yes, you're still a FUDder to me.

Quote from: donjoe
I'm starting to think TCollar is better ignored for now because he likes to spread FUD about this situation a little bit too much. Rational people know it's better to just wait and see what happens during the next work week rather than sling mud at Simon on this topic.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 16, 2013, 06:10:33 PM
We expect a withdrawl page today. If not, well lets see what happens.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 16, 2013, 06:17:10 PM
We expect a withdrawl page today. If not, well lets see what happens.

for BTC or EUR?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: alexh on April 16, 2013, 06:17:40 PM
As far as i know no bitcoins or money were lost.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: NeddeN on April 16, 2013, 06:23:25 PM
Here's a summary of the Q&A game (community vs TAiS):

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1cf6jy/update_bitcoin24_users_will_most_likely_be_able/c9g7iik


Further updates are given here:

http://kuttler.eu/post/what-happened-bitcoin24/


Edit: Personally, I would like to see such information on bitcoin-24. Great thanks to the users that invest their time in providing this information :-)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fbameriel on April 16, 2013, 06:30:02 PM
ty


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 16, 2013, 06:44:44 PM
We expect a withdrawl page today. If not, well lets see what happens.

for BTC or EUR?

For BTC.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: c0rw1n on April 16, 2013, 07:44:20 PM
We expect a withdrawl page today. If not, well lets see what happens.

for BTC or EUR?

For BTC.

The site owner said (http://www.area404.nl/irc/%23bitcoin24/2013-04-16.html) that it could be for all except EUR if it goes up.

Also, but that's mincing words, he technically said that on the 16th, so it's still on time if if goes up in the next 26h.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 16, 2013, 07:45:41 PM
I get it.  It's FUD until you can't make money.
There you go with that crappy "I'm so much smarter" attitude again.
No, the point was your posts were FUD as long as they walked like FUD and they quacked like FUD, end of story.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Moebius327 on April 16, 2013, 08:22:08 PM
Correct IBAN for the Polish bank:

PL18 1090 1115 0000 0001 2021 9027


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: TCollar on April 16, 2013, 09:13:46 PM
I get it.  It's FUD until you can't make money.
There you go with that crappy "I'm so much smarter" attitude again.
No, the point was your posts were FUD as long as they walked like FUD and they quacked like FUD, end of story.

As far as bitcoin goes I am smarter simply because I did not invest in the scheme of a tow-headed pratt.  That part is obvious and I was not trying to be subtle about my intelligence in this matter at all.

I am dumber because I invested money in GPU mining but smarter because I am still getting results compared to those who invested in BFL ever delivering anything. (but the net balance is still on the side of dumb).

But, I still maintain that critiquing shoddy practices when they fail and when they have not is not FUD,  FUD implies irrational doubt, and no one who is into bitcoin is spreading irrational doubt about them. We should spread doubt about the bad practices we see, including those by mtgox.com but so many people in this community tend to blame the doubter for causing what they predict than blaming the shoddy standards of those who handle trading.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: scatha on April 16, 2013, 09:19:58 PM
Excuse me? I consider it very real harm that the exchange has been closed during 2-3 major price drops because I couldn't use my money to trade back and forth and benefit from those drops. It's not "no harm to the users" at all.

I get your point, on the other hand you might have lost because of wrong assessment of the market.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 16, 2013, 09:32:54 PM
I get your point, on the other hand you might have lost because of wrong assessment of the market.
That too, but at least I kept a decent correlation between how much money I was putting in and how much effort I had spent investigating their handler's trustworthiness.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: numo on April 17, 2013, 10:40:05 AM
1. simon closes btc24 -> tell a good story
2. takes our bitcoins and sells them on other exchanges while the price is falling
3. waiting some days/weeks
4. buy back all those BTC for cheaper money
5. open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
6. profit!
This kind of operation would be easily traceable on blockchain.info - the address(es) of cold wallet(s) are not exactly secret.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 17, 2013, 10:48:29 AM
Not only is there harm to the rightful owners of those bitcoins/euros, but also to the bitcoin economy as a whole. Exchange randomly goes down. Owner not responding, keeping our btc hostage. Lots of negative publicity, price drop. The damage is done.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Hei_ on April 17, 2013, 10:51:36 AM
bitcoin-24 is just an scam. heard tons of stories behind it


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on April 17, 2013, 11:48:43 AM
Not only is there harm to the rightful owners of those bitcoins/euros, but also to the bitcoin economy as a whole. Exchange randomly goes down. Owner not responding, keeping our btc hostage. Lots of negative publicity, price drop. The damage is done.

IMHO this all might do some unrecoverable damage to the BTC


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Hei_ on April 17, 2013, 11:51:43 AM
Not only is there harm to the rightful owners of those bitcoins/euros, but also to the bitcoin economy as a whole. Exchange randomly goes down. Owner not responding, keeping our btc hostage. Lots of negative publicity, price drop. The damage is done.

IMHO this all might do some unrecoverable damage to the BTC

but all that coz of shitty trading sites

we need a site like mtgox where you have to deposit cash first, and trades gone instand


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on April 17, 2013, 12:47:14 PM
I've sent a telefax message (ol'style ;D) to the state attorneys office in Bremen, requesting the file number under that this case is handled (money laundering/seizure of bank accounts) and his lawyer.

Due to german privacy laws i might not get the info about the lawyers he is "working" with, but only the file number should work without involving a lawyer from my side. But since they got an official request from me, they have to answer, and i'm gonna post this answer after removing my personal details!



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 17, 2013, 12:51:44 PM
I've sent a telefax message (ol'style ;D) to the state attorneys office in Bremen, requesting the file number under that this case is handled (money laundering/seizure of bank accounts) and his lawyer.

Due to german privacy laws i might not get the info about the lawyers he is "working" with, but only the file number should work without involving a lawyer from my side. But since they got an official request from me, they have to answer, and i'm gonna post this answer after removing my personal details!



Very nice! We need some confirmation and progress.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: amiracle2 on April 17, 2013, 12:53:42 PM
never heard about this site. Shouldn't trust any site that not known by public.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 17, 2013, 01:01:49 PM
never heard about this site. Shouldn't trust any site that not known by public.

Well, it was the site with the second largest volume of transactions after gox, so I wouldn´t say it was totaly unknown to the public.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 17, 2013, 01:36:23 PM
never heard about this site. Shouldn't trust any site that not known by public.

Quote
but all that coz of shitty trading sites

we need a site like mtgox where you have to deposit cash first, and trades gone instand

Quote
bitcoin-24 is just an scam. heard tons of stories behind it


what's with these shitty unsubstantial whimsical noob comments? - if you have nothing to do with this problem keep your comments to yourself and go post your shit somewhere else...


I've sent a telefax message (ol'style ;D) to the state attorneys office in Bremen, requesting the file number under that this case is handled (money laundering/seizure of bank accounts) and his lawyer.

Due to german privacy laws i might not get the info about the lawyers he is "working" with, but only the file number should work without involving a lawyer from my side. But since they got an official request from me, they have to answer, and i'm gonna post this answer after removing my personal details!



Very nice! We need some confirmation and progress.

+1   where shall we maintain contact?

this forum?

http://yellowcoins.com/forum/index.php?/forum/6-bitcoin-24/

or this current forum, in perhaps a new thread?

or maybe this site?

http://btc24-help.com/


we need one solid line of communication for everyone! - it's getting hard to keep up with all the threads...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on April 17, 2013, 03:45:04 PM
+1   where shall we maintain contact?

this forum?

http://yellowcoins.com/forum/index.php?/forum/6-bitcoin-24/

or this current forum, in perhaps a new thread?

or maybe this site?

http://btc24-help.com/

we need one solid line of communication for everyone! - it's getting hard to keep up with all the threads...

I will remove my personal data and crosspost the infos here, reddit, yellowcoins and bitcoin.de ASAP i get the answer from the attorneys office! So everyone will get it!

btw, can someone who is a pro in blockchains and stuff get back to me in PM? i have VERY sensitive question and since suspicious ppl are lurking i won't mind or discuss it here!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 17, 2013, 04:00:17 PM
I've sent a telefax message (ol'style ;D) to the state attorneys office in Bremen, requesting the file number under that this case is handled (money laundering/seizure of bank accounts) and his lawyer.

Due to german privacy laws i might not get the info about the lawyers he is "working" with, but only the file number should work without involving a lawyer from my side. But since they got an official request from me, they have to answer, and i'm gonna post this answer after removing my personal details!



+5000


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: biskup123 on April 17, 2013, 04:03:10 PM
To be honest, I couldn't trust this exchange from the beginning as they didn't charge any commision on transactions, so how the hell they could make money then? By stealing from people, of course!  >:(
Apart from this, no verification of personal data was needed upon registration, very strange when it comes to dealing with money. :-\


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 17, 2013, 04:48:39 PM
what's with these shitty unsubstantial whimsical noob comments? - if you have nothing to do with this problem keep your comments to yourself and go post your shit somewhere else...

What he said. If you don't have any assets blocked on bitcoin-24.com, you can either help solve the problem or GTFO.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 17, 2013, 05:53:33 PM
To be honest, I couldn't trust this exchange from the beginning as they didn't charge any commision on transactions, so how the hell they could make money then? By stealing from people, of course!  >:(
Apart from this, no verification of personal data was needed upon registration, very strange when it comes to dealing with money. :-\


so far I just believe that he was very unprofessional, and still is... we should've spotted it.


I might be wrong of course


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: shantee on April 17, 2013, 06:36:13 PM
He is TOTALLY unprofessional that's a fact we can't deny. He hasn't been before this problem and he is still not now, far from it.
That's absolutely not the way he should deal with this situation. Whatever problem he is facing what we need now is information ! Yeah , well I know it's also our money back whether it's BTC or Eur/Usd...but since it appears we can't have it for the moment he should give us news about this whole situation.

I know it's nothing much but a simple letter of apologies sent to every member would have been a good things ! He could have also included in that very letter a link to a site / forum thread / whatever  / where we could follow the evolution of the situation , ask questions and eventually help him (since this guy is obviously not able to deal with this whole thing)

So yes he is a moron, i don't mean by this that he is a bad person nor a thief, but the way he handles this situation seems a little stupid to me.
That said , and believe me I am myself also quite pissed off , and worried and disgusted about this btc24 situation, I can't say that he is a scammer for the moment ( i might be a little naive though) .

If next monday nothing has changed and if we still don't have any "solid news", if we are still not able to withdraw AT LEAST our BTC ! (btw that's one thing i don't understand. Why can't we do it now ?..but well ok let him some time) ..Then yes i guess it should be time to consider him a scammer and take proper actions.    



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Newscastix on April 17, 2013, 08:30:44 PM
Second day without news... not so sure anymore how this plays out.... ::)

At least there is some BTC to be made with this:

Bet on the outcome of this drama:

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1526

Maybe i'll recover some losses...

This bet ONLY affects BTC balances, so frozen bank accounts do not matter in the outcome.

Someone with balls can bet on YES and make a killing when Bitcoin-24 pays out just the btc balances.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: madc0w on April 17, 2013, 08:59:26 PM
Maybe a little off topic, but here is a recent interaction I've had with Intersango:

April 17, 2013, 1:15 p.m.
There is no date on the transfer request in your system, but I believe it's been several days now. This request is still pending. Can you give me some idea when this might start processing?

April 17, 2013, 7:30 p.m. Staff needs_staff_action -> resolved
Please do not open inquiries for transfers set to "requested"
There is no available ETA for transfers in this state.

April 17, 2013, 7:56 p.m. resolved -> needs_staff_action
I'm sorry... I don't quite understand. Does "requested" mean that the transfer has not yet been initiated? If not, then what is blocking this transfer? Following the bitcion24 fiasco, you must understand that your customers may be a bit nervous.

April 17, 2013, 8:02 p.m. Staff needs_staff_action -> resolved
The delays are specifically because we do the things which bitcoin24 did not do that got them in trouble.
I hope you can understand.

April 17, 2013, 8:16 p.m. resolved -> needs_staff_action
So I am to understand that the delay is deliberate? If so, that's fine, but then the delay is on your side, and so you must have some idea of when the transfer will be initiated. I'm not in a big hurry... but it would be reassuring to see some forward motion.

April 17, 2013, 8:55 p.m. Staff needs_staff_action -> resolved
Of course we cannot divulge specifics of internal controls.
I hope it's enough that I say transfers are actively being sent.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 17, 2013, 09:04:18 PM

The delays are specifically because we do the things which bitcoin24 did not do that got them in trouble.


You're probably talking about the quoted text? If so, I think it's just "trying to force an open door" and a good excuse to keep someone at bay.
The only one who knows what really is going on is Simon. Without news from him, we don't know $hit


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on April 17, 2013, 09:14:16 PM
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand one question. Bitcoin is not money from legal point of view, why is Simon obliged to send the coins back? It's the same as if u requested to send back electronic letters u sent to him. Could anyone explain?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 17, 2013, 09:21:53 PM
Latest rumor from IRC is that Simons in protective custody with the police because someone threatened to kill him.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 17, 2013, 09:22:51 PM
Does anyone know anything concrete not rumors.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 17, 2013, 09:26:58 PM
That would be nice, but no, I think not.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Come-from-Beyond on April 17, 2013, 09:28:00 PM
Does anyone know anything concrete not rumors.

Yes. Noone will get the money back. Yet another scam.  :(


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 17, 2013, 09:30:00 PM
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand one question. Bitcoin is not money from legal point of view, why is Simon obliged to send the coins back? It's the same as if u requested to send back electronic letters u sent to him. Could anyone explain?

He's under no obligation. It's a trust issue but he's at a disadvantage as he's known but doesn't necessarily know all his depositors. It's a bit of a lottery really. All it takes is for him not to pay back the wrong person's bitcoin. In that case the law would be the least of his worries.

See the 'protective custody' post above.

There's a lot of paranoid drug dealers who feel slighted at the most minor things. Imagine one of them saw simon's wide open site (with courier cash deliveries etc), deposited and then felt like simon robbed him? He's not going to be going to the law.





Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 17, 2013, 09:30:22 PM
Maybe a little off topic, but here is a recent interaction I've had with Intersango:

April 17, 2013, 1:15 p.m.
There is no date on the transfer request in your system, but I believe it's been several days now. This request is still pending. Can you give me some idea when this might start processing?

April 17, 2013, 7:30 p.m. Staff needs_staff_action -> resolved
Please do not open inquiries for transfers set to "requested"
There is no available ETA for transfers in this state.

April 17, 2013, 7:56 p.m. resolved -> needs_staff_action
I'm sorry... I don't quite understand. Does "requested" mean that the transfer has not yet been initiated? If not, then what is blocking this transfer? Following the bitcion24 fiasco, you must understand that your customers may be a bit nervous.

April 17, 2013, 8:02 p.m. Staff needs_staff_action -> resolved
The delays are specifically because we do the things which bitcoin24 did not do that got them in trouble.
I hope you can understand.

April 17, 2013, 8:16 p.m. resolved -> needs_staff_action
So I am to understand that the delay is deliberate? If so, that's fine, but then the delay is on your side, and so you must have some idea of when the transfer will be initiated. I'm not in a big hurry... but it would be reassuring to see some forward motion.

April 17, 2013, 8:55 p.m. Staff needs_staff_action -> resolved
Of course we cannot divulge specifics of internal controls.
I hope it's enough that I say transfers are actively being sent.



I have a feeling that there are legal issues with sending out money, and the exchanges that have been surviving are being slow and deliberate perhaps?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 17, 2013, 09:32:57 PM
Latest rumor from IRC is that Simons in protective custody with the police because someone threatened to kill him.


source?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 17, 2013, 09:35:08 PM
Whatever your "feelings", the fact that he has not responded on the promised date should put you in perspective.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 17, 2013, 09:35:54 PM
Latest rumor from IRC is that Simons in protective custody with the police because someone threatened to kill him.


source?

probably the police just saw what an idiot he's been and did it for his own good. no actual threats


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 17, 2013, 09:38:24 PM
Latest rumor from IRC is that Simons in protective custody with the police because someone threatened to kill him.


source?

#bitcoin24 chatroom from a guy named klawd, but noone has been able to confirm.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 17, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Latest rumor from IRC is that Simons in protective custody with the police because someone threatened to kill him.
It may sound a bit cynical, but I don't see what this has to do with his new web developer's ability to put the withdrawals page online so people can get out everything they had except maybe the EUR. If anything a move like that would reduce the chances of having even more people start thinking of finding a way to harm him physically (as if that solved anything any sane person really cares about).


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on April 17, 2013, 09:45:09 PM
Also I understand there´s been established a german facebook group dedicated to hunt him down. Things are getting crazy.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: GreekGeek on April 17, 2013, 09:58:09 PM
fraud

http://  adminsimidi5544  .   bitcoin  -  24  .  com  /

do not put your Usename/Password in the above link


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on April 17, 2013, 09:59:55 PM
Latest rumor from IRC is that Simons in protective custody with the police because someone threatened to kill him.

If this is true he could have simply avoid this by being honest to all the people he owes a shitload of money and BTC!

- Took him several days to appear in IRC in person!
- If hes not that good with the english language, have someone beside him translating during the chat!  
- Information is scattered over reddit, twitter, IRC...this should be on BTC24 and updated on a daily basis!
- Seems like information is only released if the pressure gets too high on him and related people to cool down the situation
- Still no info why OUR BTC are moving around through HIS wallets.
- Why can't we access our transaction logs read only?!? Is there something he wants to hide?!?
- There has to be a statement approved by his lawyer that can be veryfied, "I can't tell.." or "I don't know..." is BULLSHIT!
- If he makes an ETA he has to keep it FFS !!!
- Several people offered him help, AFAIK he didn't get back to anyone of them!

He was given confidence over the last weekend and two days more, he messed up the whole thing by his own and now his lack of communication its gonna backfire on him!

If we could be sure he handles this right, has competent lawyers, keeps us informated NOONE would consider to go for him!



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Newscastix on April 17, 2013, 10:09:34 PM
Also I understand there´s been established a german facebook group dedicated to hunt him down. Things are getting crazy.

well... shit happens... i don't condone manhunts, but all he has to do is to give a statement... even if he cannot say anything he can say that he cannot say anything and give contact info of his lawyer...



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 17, 2013, 10:10:51 PM
Latest rumor from IRC is that Simons in protective custody with the police because someone threatened to kill him.

If this is true he could have simply avoid this by being honest to all the people he owes a shitload of money and BTC!

- Took him several days to appear in IRC in person!
- If hes not that good with the english language, have someone beside him translating during the chat!  
- Information is scattered over reddit, twitter, IRC...this should be on BTC24 and updated on a daily basis!
- Seems like information is only released if the pressure gets too high on him and related people to cool down the situation
- Still no info why OUR BTC are moving around through HIS wallets.
- Why can't we access our transaction logs read only?!? Is there something he wants to hide?!?
- There has to be a statement approved by his lawyer that can be veryfied, "I can't tell.." or "I don't know..." is BULLSHIT!
- If he makes an ETA he has to keep it FFS !!!
- Several people offered him help, AFAIK he didn't get back to anyone of them!

He was given confidence over the last weekend and two days more, he messed up the whole thing by his own and now his lack of communication its gonna backfire on him!

If we could be sure he handles this right, has competent lawyers, keeps us informated NOONE would consider to go for him!



Most scammers don't set out to be scammers. They make mistakes then chase their losses. He knew about his software errors but because bitcoin was in a bubble he probably felt he was making so much money he could cover them and fix the software later. In his mind the worst thing he could've done was  suspend trading and taking deposits to fix the software. Then the bubble crashed and like all 'accidental' scammers he couldn't pay back the money he owed.

Apart from that he's a great guy as was Nick Leeson.





Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 17, 2013, 10:11:44 PM
fraud

http://  adminsimidi5544  .   bitcoin  -  24  .  com  /

do not put your Usename/Password in the above link


how do you know this is a fraud?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: GreekGeek on April 17, 2013, 10:20:44 PM
bitfloor.com  is down too!!!!!!!

what the hell is going on!!!!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 17, 2013, 10:23:16 PM
bitfloor.com  is down too!!!!!!!

what the hell is going on!!!!

Screw bitfloor :D
This is Bitcoin24 thread.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: shantee on April 17, 2013, 10:40:51 PM
Quote
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand one question. Bitcoin is not money from legal point of view, why is Simon obliged to send the coins back? It's the same as if u requested to send back electronic letters u sent to him. Could anyone explain?

Bitcoin is not a money , ok , alright why not ? So if we follow your logic then bitcoin is at least a digital good which we bought on his website by transferring money to his bank account. and now these digital goods hasn't been delivered but the money has been received. I don't know how you'd call it but to me it sounds like a scam a fraud.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 17, 2013, 10:52:54 PM
Except some of us moved in via BTC transfer, so we have no proof we ever paid Simon any real money that we could be entitled to get back. :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Javen on April 17, 2013, 10:53:01 PM
omg :(


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Butterkeks on April 17, 2013, 11:05:48 PM
Also I understand there´s been established a german facebook group dedicated to hunt him down. Things are getting crazy.

This one? https://www.facebook.com/groups/258552767621734/

Remember what happened to James Amburn (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/23/german-pensioners-guilty-kidnap-financial-adviser)?  ;D


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ZephramC on April 17, 2013, 11:20:28 PM
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand one question. Bitcoin is not money from legal point of view, why is Simon obliged to send the coins back? It's the same as if u requested to send back electronic letters u sent to him. Could anyone explain?

He's under no obligation. It's a trust issue but he's at a disadvantage as he's known but doesn't necessarily know all his depositors. It's a bit of a lottery really. All it takes is for him not to pay back the wrong person's bitcoin. In that case the law would be the least of his worries.

See the 'protective custody' post above.

There's a lot of paranoid drug dealers who feel slighted at the most minor things. Imagine one of them saw simon's wide open site (with courier cash deliveries etc), deposited and then felt like simon robbed him? He's not going to be going to the law.





This is exactly why I do not understand why Simon is not communicating more and returning  at least our bitcoins. He does not see this threat of some really, really angry customer?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 17, 2013, 11:21:39 PM
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand one question. Bitcoin is not money from legal point of view, why is Simon obliged to send the coins back? It's the same as if u requested to send back electronic letters u sent to him. Could anyone explain?

He's under no obligation. It's a trust issue but he's at a disadvantage as he's known but doesn't necessarily know all his depositors. It's a bit of a lottery really. All it takes is for him not to pay back the wrong person's bitcoin. In that case the law would be the least of his worries.

See the 'protective custody' post above.

There's a lot of paranoid drug dealers who feel slighted at the most minor things. Imagine one of them saw simon's wide open site (with courier cash deliveries etc), deposited and then felt like simon robbed him? He's not going to be going to the law.





This is exactly why I do not understand why Simon is not communicating more and returning  at least our bitcoins. He does not see this threat of some really, really angry customer?

Umm, maybe because he doesn't want to return them? :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 17, 2013, 11:40:37 PM
As previously said in the thread Simon is an accidental scammer. He was probably making huge losses caused by his engine fucks up, covering them by betting on bitcoin price increase.

I read his statements on IRC. At some point he says that a youtube video exemplifying the transaction bug is "a joke". He goes as far as pretending that the video is made-up. He's the only one believing in his own lies.
It is clear that he's covering the losses.
Someone needs to tell him that it's ok, if he only lost 10% of the BTC and/or fiat, let his customers have 90%. This is more than enough. He just needs to admit it and get out of hiding.
The reason why he keeps quiet is that his "lawyer" told him to stop talking to people, because he's too dumb and will reveal the extent of the fraud through his naive lies.

His only way out is to start being honest and let more competent people sort the mess out, then paying people back the best they can. If he doesn't do that, if he instead gives the BTC and/or fiat to the german governement, i don't think he will come out of this mess alive.
I can say that I have 45,000 EUR (fiat + BTC) on Bitcoin 24 currently, and i'm not going to be the one who gives the order (and if I was, I wouldn't brag about it on a public forum), but i'm sure other people in the same situation will. At the end of this week, if nothing new has happened, the fate of our BTC + fiat will be clear.
Simon is young, stupid, but needs to know that. He can still fix things.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 17, 2013, 11:41:53 PM
The funniest part of this is how the mighty "Libertarians" who were so vocal before about individual freedom and how unnecessary or evil the state is and how ideal a completely unregulated free market would be etc. etc. are now all of a sudden running right back to the state crying "Mommy!" the second they get screwed by someone on exactly the kind of unregulated free market they always said they wanted. :D


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 17, 2013, 11:43:39 PM
The funniest part of this is how the mighty "Libertarians" who were so vocal before about individual freedom and how unnecessary or evil the state is and how ideal a completely unregulated free market would be etc. etc. are now all of a sudden running right back to the state crying "Mommy!" the second they get screwed by someone on exactly the kind of unregulated free market they always said they wanted. :D

Its funny that you think only libertarians invest in Bitcoins. Most are there due to greed.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 17, 2013, 11:44:49 PM
The funniest part of this is how the mighty "Libertarians" who were so vocal before about individual freedom and how unnecessary or evil the state is and how ideal a completely unregulated free market would be etc. etc. are now all of a sudden running right back to the state crying "Mommy!" the second they get screwed by someone on exactly the kind of unregulated free market they always said they wanted. :D

Simon didn't screw anyone intentionally. Doing so when your identity is out in the open would be the same as committing suicide.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 17, 2013, 11:46:12 PM
The funniest part of this is how the mighty "Libertarians" who were so vocal before about individual freedom and how unnecessary or evil the state is and how ideal a completely unregulated free market would be etc. etc. are now all of a sudden running right back to the state crying "Mommy!" the second they get screwed by someone on exactly the kind of unregulated free market they always said they wanted. :D

Its funny that you think only libertarians invest in Bitcoins. Most are there due to greed.

99% in fact.
I invested in Bitcoin myself to make money. For myself.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on April 17, 2013, 11:46:58 PM
Except some of us moved in via BTC transfer, so we have no proof we ever paid Simon any real money that we could be entitled to get back. :)

i only moved BTC in, its all in the transaction history of the client/wallet! if not, there is always the blockchain ;)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 17, 2013, 11:48:31 PM
Simon didn't screw anyone intentionally. Doing so when your identity is out in the open would be the same as committing suicide.
I fully realize that. That's just because the only notion of "justice" available in this joke of a philosophy that is right-wing extremist "Libertarianism" is that of a jungle where people kill eachother for anything like crazed psychopaths. :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 17, 2013, 11:50:28 PM
Is there something called unintentional rape?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: adamater on April 17, 2013, 11:53:37 PM
btc-e has never stolen my money :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ivanc on April 17, 2013, 11:58:09 PM
Simon didn't screw anyone intentionally. Doing so when your identity is out in the open would be the same as committing suicide.
I fully realize that. That's just because the only notion of "justice" available in this joke of a philosophy that is right-wing extremist "Libertarianism" is that of a jungle where people kill eachother for anything like crazed psychopaths. :)

The "regulated" world is not that much better off, when we see what happened around Madoff in the years after the scandal for instance...
And let's see what happens to him when he gets out too.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ZephramC on April 18, 2013, 12:03:31 AM
The funniest part of this is how the mighty "Libertarians" who were so vocal before about individual freedom and how unnecessary or evil the state is and how ideal a completely unregulated free market would be etc. etc. are now all of a sudden running right back to the state crying "Mommy!" the second they get screwed by someone on exactly the kind of unregulated free market they always said they wanted. :D

Maybe the Libertarians do not want state and police and government (and not even Simon's lawyer actually) to solve this. They want Simon to solve this.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 18, 2013, 12:30:29 AM
The "regulated" world is not that much better off, when we see what happened around Madoff in the years after the scandal for instance...
No idea what you mean.

Quote
And let's see what happens to him when he gets out too.
He's probably gonna get buried when he gets out, seeing as he's serving a life sentence. :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: JackomoLight on April 18, 2013, 12:32:38 AM
that was a nasty problem there


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 18, 2013, 12:36:38 AM
apparently Simon is currently online in this forum...

I've sent him a message asking him to communicate more please because of all you angry people  :-\


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 18, 2013, 02:38:13 AM
Umm, maybe because he doesn't want to return them? :)

This.

Occam's Razor

If he intends to return the BTC it would be in his best interest to do so quickly to restore confidence.
He has had ample time to return the BTC.
He has no returned the BTC.
(insert most likely conclusion here)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: timbusan on April 18, 2013, 03:37:07 AM
Yes. Everything he has done has served to reduce our trust in him. If he's legitimate then he *literally* couldn't have handled this worse.

Communicating through Reddit and twitter on an completely ad hoc basis? No formal information, no corroborating evidence, contradictory statements and a profound lack of action? What a disgrace. If he isn't a scammer he is doing his best impersonation of one.

Now, because of his incompetence hundreds of people (myself included) have filed complaints to the Bremen Kriminalpolitzi which means the money will be tied up forever. I couldn't let this charade carry on any longer. 48 hours of no communication shows a complete disregard for the situation.

That's if there's any money left in the account, anyway. I sincerely believe he has lost thousands and thousands of BTC through the bug and was trying to cover his losses through the increasing value of BTC.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 18, 2013, 03:38:56 AM
Umm, maybe because he doesn't want to return them? :)

This.

Occam's Razor

If he intends to return the BTC it would be in his best interest to do so quickly to restore confidence.
He has had ample time to return the BTC.
He has no returned the BTC.
(insert most likely conclusion here)



police have seized hardware


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 18, 2013, 03:39:14 AM
update from another thread:

Quote
Moebius327
Jr. Member
**


Posts: 11



View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
   
   
Re: Initiative to help Simon Hausdorf to clear things @ bitcoin-24 <-- SIMON READ IT
Today at 02:51:42 AM
   
Reply with quote  #59
Update: http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=8332b6e8753a7f3084015bd68d3a580f


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: timbusan on April 18, 2013, 03:42:59 AM
The police haven't seized the hardware. They barely seem aware of the situation; it's not as if he's wanted by Interpol (yet)

We shouldn't keep making excuses for him. It's an exercise in self delusion.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: timbusan on April 18, 2013, 03:44:39 AM
update from another thread:

Quote
Moebius327
Jr. Member
**


Posts: 11



View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
   
   
Re: Initiative to help Simon Hausdorf to clear things @ bitcoin-24 <-- SIMON READ IT
Today at 02:51:42 AM
   
Reply with quote  #59
Update: http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=8332b6e8753a7f3084015bd68d3a580f

I truly doubt that's the real Simon, although I could be wrong. Why the f*ck would he use yet another confusing channel of communication? What's next? Smoke signals? Morse code?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 18, 2013, 03:51:50 AM

[/quote]

I truly doubt that's the real Simon, although I could be wrong. Why the f*ck would he use yet another confusing channel of communication? What's next? Smoke signals? Morse code?
[/quote]


so much negativity, always...

he has established he's bad at communicating already - I just had to read it on Google translate but it is consistent so far. I don't quite understand what's going on with the banks though...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: timbusan on April 18, 2013, 03:57:10 AM
I'm sorry but you're being naive and far too forgiving. What reason is there to believe that's the real Simon apart from the fact we desperately *want* to believe he hasn't completely f*cked us over?

The most obvious point is that there has been no communication through any of his pre registered accounts. Only that new one which could have been created by absolutely anybody.

*nobody* is that stupid that they wouldn't have a constant and consistent channel of communication open during this crisis. His reticence is damning. With the minimum amount of offence; I've seen autistic people with better awareness and communication skills.

48 hours with no communication! During something like this? Are you kidding me? People are going insane and justifiably so.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Brythe on April 18, 2013, 04:37:17 AM
At this point, I'm beginning to think that for 5million ish $/EUR I too would

1. build up my rep (post count) for months on 20-30 accounts on all the major bitcoin forums and on reddit
2. initiate scam
3. calm the action by repeatedly assuring in eeriely similar posts all claiming to have:
       a. Met this elusive guy, simon
       b. claim he's nice, upright in morals, idealistic, etc,etc (thus feeding all our biases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases))
4. use the time bought from the community by my dummy accounts to give them the slip.


tl;dr :

When people keep saying "I've met this guy, he's nice, etc, etc" only trust those with established rep.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ZephramC on April 18, 2013, 07:06:20 AM
Also Simon should publish and thus verify list of all his accounts at all channels (here, Reddit, Facebook, etc.) signed by his bitcoin address and then repeat this with maybe 3 or 4 other addresses (b24 cold storage, hot storage, ...).


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 18, 2013, 07:23:39 AM
At this point, I'm beginning to think that for 5million ish $/EUR I too would

1. build up my rep (post count) for months on 20-30 accounts on all the major bitcoin forums and on reddit
2. initiate scam
3. calm the action by repeatedly assuring in eeriely similar posts all claiming to have:
       a. Met this elusive guy, simon
       b. claim he's nice, upright in morals, idealistic, etc,etc (thus feeding all our biases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases))
4. use the time bought from the community by my dummy accounts to give them the slip.


tl;dr :

When people keep saying "I've met this guy, he's nice, etc, etc" only trust those with established rep.


I've met this guy, he's nice, etc, etc


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on April 18, 2013, 08:42:07 AM
Update on the site https://bitcoin-24.com/

Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed our Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

Die Gründe für die Schließung unserer Konten durch internationale Großbanken sind uns nun bekannt und rechtlich mehr als fragwürdig. Unsere Rechtsanwälte gehen mit aller Konsequenz gegen dieses Verhalten vor. Wir gehen davon aus, dass wir kurzfristig wieder vollständig handlungsfähig sind und alle Geschäfte mit noch größerem Engagement im Sinne aller Nutzer vorantreiben können. Die Sorgen der Großbanken sind uns ein zusätzlicher Ansporn dabei! Wir werden sie zeitnah über die weitere Entwicklung informieren.
(English this evening)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf

google translate: reasons for the closing of our accounts with major international banks are now known to us and legally more than questionable. Our lawyers go before the full consequences to this behavior. We assume that we are ready again fully operational and all transactions can drive with even greater commitment on behalf of all users. The concerns of the major banks are us an additional incentive there! We will inform you promptly of further development. (English this evening)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 18, 2013, 09:07:44 AM
Additionally there is a link to a document. Can anyone let me know whats inside?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 18, 2013, 09:40:45 AM
New post from Simon (not translated yet): http://btc24-help.com/simons-board-post/

Not much new information from what I can see with Google Translate and no new promises about when any part of the website will be back up.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: pinky on April 18, 2013, 09:44:56 AM
New update on https://bitcoin-24.com/. Anybody undestands German?

There is link to https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf). It is notification from Polish bank from 9.4.2013 about account block.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Newscastix on April 18, 2013, 09:53:58 AM
ALL the action is now taking place at:

http://board.btc24-help.com

There is also an English subforum!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: testsieger on April 18, 2013, 10:01:42 AM
New update on https://bitcoin-24.com/. Anybody undestands German?

There is link to https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf). It is notification from Polish bank from 9.4.2013 about account block.

Well, i am german. Do you need a short info, what´s going on?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 18, 2013, 10:51:57 AM
It would be nice to finally understand who alerted whom and for what reason, between the Commerzbank, the Bremen police and the Polish bank. The Google translation isn't good enough to make this clear.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: testsieger on April 18, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
The Commerzbank informed the Bremen police, that he used the money for him self and that this is probably the money of his clients. The Bremen police contacted the polish authorities and they closed his polish bank account.

That´s it. So, the money should be safe but under control of the authorities.

Personaly, i think that the guy is from Poland(german minority) and that´s the reason why he had an account in Poland. Also his written German sounds like that.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 18, 2013, 11:32:10 AM
Hmm, so then back when he created BTC24 and it was still a very small website with few subscribers it probably looked like a good idea to keep things simple and just use his personal account to keep the customers' money, but as things ramped up and the operation got much bigger it started to look very suspicious that he kept treating it like a personal account and making cash withdrawals from it whenever he wanted.

If I got things right. (I'm pretty sure he said something about some cash withdrawals which he felt completely entitled to.)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: andy-bc on April 18, 2013, 11:42:55 AM
New update on https://bitcoin-24.com/. Anybody undestands German?

There is link to https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf). It is notification from Polish bank from 9.4.2013 about account block.

My German is not adequate enough, but it is clear that the bank blocked Simon's account for 3 months on order of the Polish public prosecutor.
The prosecutor did this after receving information from the GIIF - General Inspector of the Financial Information (= main Polish AML authority).
The GIIF in turn acted upon documents from the German (Bremen) public prosecutor and the German police.




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: memvola on April 18, 2013, 12:12:52 PM
So, the problem isn't depositing of stolen funds by the clients, but the police claiming that he is stealing our funds?

This seems easier to resolve.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bitsandcoins on April 18, 2013, 12:34:21 PM
It would be nice if Simon could come forward and give a timeframe and other details about the indicated rollback of faulty transactions.
If only the bank account is closed why are there no BTC payouts?

Does anybody have the BTC address of bitcoin-24's cold wallet?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 18, 2013, 12:51:32 PM
CONTINUE DISCUSSION ON THE OTHER FORUM - WE NEED TO ALL STICK TOGETHER AND WORK AS A TEAM TO GET THIS SOLVED!

http://board.btc24-help.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=750d2bc83dccc8492e2b043f1614af7a


let's stop being so fucking spread out please...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bitsandcoins on April 18, 2013, 12:55:22 PM
CONTINUE DISCUSSION ON THE OTHER FORUM - WE NEED TO ALL STICK TOGETHER AND WORK AS A TEAM TO GET THIS SOLVED!

http://board.btc24-help.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=750d2bc83dccc8492e2b043f1614af7a


let's stop being so fucking spread out please...
subbed


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 18, 2013, 02:14:40 PM
Does anybody have the BTC address of bitcoin-24's cold wallet?
Yes, the wallets are listed in the dedicated forum as well: http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&sid=3e13d45566bfd58ce8e360c8fdd0b7d1


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Newscastix on April 18, 2013, 02:15:13 PM
CONTINUE DISCUSSION ON THE OTHER FORUM - WE NEED TO ALL STICK TOGETHER AND WORK AS A TEAM TO GET THIS SOLVED!

http://board.btc24-help.com/viewforum.php?f=3


let's stop being so fucking spread out please...

+1!!!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on April 18, 2013, 08:07:22 PM
Hmm, so then back when he created BTC24 and it was still a very small website with few subscribers it probably looked like a good idea to keep things simple and just use his personal account to keep the customers' money, but as things ramped up and the operation got much bigger it started to look very suspicious that he kept treating it like a personal account and making cash withdrawals from it whenever he wanted.

If I got things right. (I'm pretty sure he said something about some cash withdrawals which he felt completely entitled to.)

Just to set you straight here. Simon was perfectly entitled to those cash withdrawals, they were the % fees he charged for cash transfers. They are his only source of income related to btc24.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: aby on April 18, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
Hmm, so then back when he created BTC24 and it was still a very small website with few subscribers it probably looked like a good idea to keep things simple and just use his personal account to keep the customers' money, but as things ramped up and the operation got much bigger it started to look very suspicious that he kept treating it like a personal account and making cash withdrawals from it whenever he wanted.

If I got things right. (I'm pretty sure he said something about some cash withdrawals which he felt completely entitled to.)

Just to set you straight here. Simon was perfectly entitled to those cash withdrawals, they were the % fees he charged for cash transfers. They are his only source of income related to btc24.

Which makes me wonder, WHY does he withdraw it from his business account directly? Rather than transfering it to his private account and then withdrawing it.
First thing that comes to my mind is tax evasion? Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to me. Also.. does this mean that he has a pincard to withdraw cash from an account that has €5MIO+??


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 18, 2013, 09:25:54 PM
OK, the isht may have just hit the fan: the admin of btc24-help.com has filed a complaint with the German authorities against BTC24 Ltd. in the name of several customers, as if Simon was to blame for everything that happened, especially the blocking of all funds. I have serious doubts this was the right course of action at this point.

http://btc24-help.com/deutsch-anzeige-ist-raus/


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: lambo on April 18, 2013, 10:11:39 PM
OK, the isht may have just hit the fan: the admin of btc24-help.com has filed a complaint with the German authorities against BTC24 Ltd. in the name of several customers, as if Simon was to blame for everything that happened, especially the blocking of all funds. I have serious doubts this was the right course of action at this point.

http://btc24-help.com/deutsch-anzeige-ist-raus/

thank god I had no money with them but I feel for anyone who did. I don't think its a scam, but its definitely a shitty situation


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: BitcoinFreak123 on April 18, 2013, 11:27:49 PM
OK, the isht may have just hit the fan: the admin of btc24-help.com has filed a complaint with the German authorities against BTC24 Ltd. in the name of several customers, as if Simon was to blame for everything that happened, especially the blocking of all funds. I have serious doubts this was the right course of action at this point.

http://btc24-help.com/deutsch-anzeige-ist-raus/

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but i think donjoe mis-understood the whole thing. As i read the message i udnerstand a complaint was sent against the GERMAN POLICE, not against Simon.
I understood that the police froze the account because they thought Simon was a phisher, and i quote from btc24-help.com "We pointed out, that everyone sent money to Simon Hausdorf voluntarily."
So they made clear to the german autorities that WE and SIMON are the victims, making clear that Simon didn't phish anyone, and we all did it voluntary..

That's not a case agaist Simon....


Well that's what i understand of it.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 18, 2013, 11:44:59 PM
Unless ThreeMan's English is horrible, I understood correctly that he always wanted to file a complaint against Simon's company and that's exactly what he did.

See the full text of the home page, where he talks about a class action lawsuit against Bitcoin-24 and not against the police: http://btc24-help.com
... and see this forum post about what he did today: http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52&sid=1b58d50ed7dcaaca4dc62df4b1f8616c#p338

Hell, I'm not even sure all the victims who sent him their information were fully aware what kind of complaint they were contributing to. Already some people have expressed disagreement with the way their information has been used, i.e. against Simon instead of the police or the Polish bank.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: timbusan on April 19, 2013, 01:34:34 AM
It appears a complaint was made to the police but it stated that the money involved was not phished and we are the legal owners of it.

One thing is clear; Simon has no hardware and is pretty much fucked at the moment. Those that have BTC, who knows what will happen. Do they police have any idea what BTC are? I doubt it. Those that have fiat; the money is safe - maybe too safe. The government will stew on this for a long time perhaps.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: BitcoinFreak123 on April 19, 2013, 02:53:05 AM
It appears a complaint was made to the police but it stated that the money involved was not phished and we are the legal owners of it.

One thing is clear; Simon has no hardware and is pretty much fucked at the moment. Those that have BTC, who knows what will happen. Do they police have any idea what BTC are? I doubt it. Those that have fiat; the money is safe - maybe too safe. The government will stew on this for a long time perhaps.

Thats what i also thought, the the complaint was made to help simon, not to accuse him.

--------

Simon has no hardware??? What do you mean? Is this guy under arrest?

What a pr*ck seriously. "Will will have a withdrawal page TOMORROW" said 3 days ago. WHERE IS THAT DAMN WITHDRAWAL PAGE ?? Not a man of his words. I can totally understand it some people want to take it personally, including me.

I give him the options:
1) Tell us honestly he scammed us and we are fucked, then we know it for sure
2) Stick to his words and put up that withdrawal page..


But promising that withdrawal page, making false promises all the time, really makes him a dick. What an irony, he first said he didn't want to put a deadline because otherwise we would accuse him of not doing it. Well now that he was so sure of his deadline, where are the friggin deeds ???

C'mon man .... What a BS. What is this guy thinking?

Maybe hes missing on a few K btc, and is secretly using our btc to sell at profit now that the time is rising, then he will buy cheap coins again, so he can re-fund anyone. And he's saying all this BS to stretch some time .... He hopes fixing everything and then appearing as he finally has his shit together, hoping that he wouldnt get any more negative publicity. But he doesn't realize he already made more than enough negative publicity that no one will ever trust his exchange..

SIMON, if you are reading this: IF YOU GIVE OUR (or at least my) BTC back within the next 24 hours, we will forgive you and not spread any negative message, and we will act as if you had your shit together !



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bitbadger on April 19, 2013, 03:05:15 AM
So, the problem isn't depositing of stolen funds by the clients, but the police claiming that he is stealing our funds?

This seems easier to resolve.
It won't be easy to resolve when people go submitting claims to the prosecutor or police that the operator has run off with our money. The server equipment will be held as evidence and not released. 

Which is what someone has done and what has now happened. It makes the whole thing harder to resolve.
 


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: timbusan on April 19, 2013, 05:05:10 AM
Let me clarify; the claim on 'Bitcoin 24 help', as far as I can discern, is AGAINST Simon and Bitcoin-24.com but it does state that the money owed was given freely and was not phished.

Apparently on the 16th Simon's hardware was confiscated after somebody filed a complaint. This is what I can gather from the statements on his website. Although I dont speak German.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 19, 2013, 05:09:47 AM
Simon has no hardware??? What do you mean? Is this guy under arrest?
No, but there was a search warrant issued for any hardware he may have used in the whole BTC operation (a copy of which is now published on bitcoin-24.com, BTW) and people just went on to assume 1. that it had already been executed and 2. that it involved seizing the machine formerly running the bitcoin-24.com trading engine and/or holding the BTC wallets, but I don't think there's any proof that these steps have been taken. The website itself has never been offline through all this AFAIK and obviously he still has control over what to publish on it, so at the very least his webhosting service has not been affected by the search warrant.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: testsieger on April 19, 2013, 09:13:57 AM
What I understand from all these documents (I am German and sorry for my bad english):

1) Starting point is the Commerzbank in Bremen. They send a "warning" to the Staatsanwaltschaft(prosecutor) that Mr. H. draws money all days of the bitcoin-24 LTD account in cash and that this is probably the money of the clients.
Like also Mr. H. said in his declaration is that the Commerzbank was fully informed about the business of bitcoin-24.

Scenario: Mr. H. goes to the Commerzbank and draws cash from the account 50k €.... 2 days later 20k€....4 days later 35k €..... 2 days..


Doing this, you can get not only problems with the tax authorities, but also with the prosecutor cause of anti-terror, anti-mafia laws.



2) The Staatsanwaltschaft decided apparently:

probable:
   a) this 23 old dj-guy is not intelligent enough to deal with responsability
   b) maybe he is using client money for privat or he thinks this is correct or his money
   c) he is a prof. scammer
   d) maybe a+b+c together

a,b,c,d: we have to protect the clients!

less probable:
   e) he finances with that money some illegal business/terrorism
   f)  money laundering for some criminal organisation...

e,f: we have seen more intelligent guys, but can be!



ALARM!!!!! We have to act!


What will be the most effectiv way to secure also the money of the polish account??? If we tell them, that he is scamming his clients....this will take weeks. So we will go for terrorism and money laundering.



UPDATE!!!! Sondermeldung!

zwei Aktenzeichen(id-numbers for the case...so you have something for your lawers):
290 JS 47630/12 wegen Geldwäscheverdacht
241 Js 380/13 wegen Betrugsverdacht


 


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 19, 2013, 10:30:14 AM
That's not all. According to a post in the btc24-help forum, this may have been a more serious matter than some simple suspicions: apparently Simon was in breach of European AML legislation by allowing anyone to trade large amounts of money on his website without having to provide any personal identification. When you think about it, an exchange like his could very well (have) be(en) used to launder money by some seriously bad people.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: memvola on April 19, 2013, 11:03:31 AM
That's not all. According to a post in the btc24-help forum, this may have been a more serious matter than some simple suspicions: apparently Simon was in breach of European AML legislation by allowing anyone to trade large amounts of money on his website without having to provide any personal identification. When you think about it, an exchange like his could very well (have) be(en) used to launder money by some seriously bad people.

So, the only way out is a KYC/AML claims process? After that, he might be able to continue operation, but probably not before.

Will Simon be able to handle this?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on April 19, 2013, 02:50:31 PM
That's not all. According to a post in the btc24-help forum, this may have been a more serious matter than some simple suspicions: apparently Simon was in breach of European AML legislation by allowing anyone to trade large amounts of money on his website without having to provide any personal identification. When you think about it, an exchange like his could very well (have) be(en) used to launder money by some seriously bad people.

So, the only way out is a KYC/AML claims process? After that, he might be able to continue operation, but probably not before.

Will Simon be able to handle this?

How does that work for BTC?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: memvola on April 19, 2013, 02:57:03 PM
That's not all. According to a post in the btc24-help forum, this may have been a more serious matter than some simple suspicions: apparently Simon was in breach of European AML legislation by allowing anyone to trade large amounts of money on his website without having to provide any personal identification. When you think about it, an exchange like his could very well (have) be(en) used to launder money by some seriously bad people.

So, the only way out is a KYC/AML claims process? After that, he might be able to continue operation, but probably not before.

Will Simon be able to handle this?

How does that work for BTC?

I would guess that it really doesn't matter what asset of you btc24 is holding, based on the claims processes we've had in the past years. (This is assuming he's not actively trying to hide the assets, in which case btc holders would have a hard time.)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: pedro82 on April 20, 2013, 12:42:55 AM
This guy shouldn’t be sue, he should be hunted by costumers and forced to release what he is  holding from others. Arrest, liberty restriction  or material seizure will only serve has another excuses for his lack of action.
This guy behave like he is hiding something very wrong,  If he does not run/hide in next few days he is going to crash in whatever hands !  

PM me to build a team to chase him down... it will serve for others example !


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 20, 2013, 02:25:24 AM
This guy shouldn’t be sue, he should be hunted by costumers and forced to release what he is  holding from others. Arrest, liberty restriction  or material seizure will only serve has another excuses for his lack of action.
This guy behave like he is hiding something very wrong,  If he does not run/hide in next few days he is going to crash in whatever hands !  

PM me to build a team to chase him down... it will serve for others example !


I don't think he's hiding something. But his communication is extremely bad.


The bitcoins are an issue... the banks have been explained.


SIMON PLEASE JUST COMMUNICATE WHAT'S GOING ON AND GIVE PEOPLE THEIR BITCOINS BACK BEFORE THEY GET TOO UPSET


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Moebius327 on April 20, 2013, 08:17:31 AM
This guy shouldn’t be sue, he should be hunted by costumers and forced to release what he is  holding from others. Arrest, liberty restriction  or material seizure will only serve has another excuses for his lack of action.
This guy behave like he is hiding something very wrong,  If he does not run/hide in next few days he is going to crash in whatever hands !  

PM me to build a team to chase him down... it will serve for others example !


I don't think he's hiding something. But his communication is extremely bad.


The bitcoins are an issue... the banks have been explained.


SIMON PLEASE JUST COMMUNICATE WHAT'S GOING ON AND GIVE PEOPLE THEIR BITCOINS BACK BEFORE THEY GET TOO UPSET

What about the money? If he gives back the BTC before the investigation ends, and the police finds out, he will be in big trouble. 


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: pedro82 on April 20, 2013, 09:16:10 AM
This guy shouldn’t be sue, he should be hunted by costumers and forced to release what he is  holding from others. Arrest, liberty restriction  or material seizure will only serve has another excuses for his lack of action.
This guy behave like he is hiding something very wrong,  If he does not run/hide in next few days he is going to crash in whatever hands !  

PM me to build a team to chase him down... it will serve for others example !


I don't think he's hiding something. But his communication is extremely bad.


The bitcoins are an issue... the banks have been explained.


SIMON PLEASE JUST COMMUNICATE WHAT'S GOING ON AND GIVE PEOPLE THEIR BITCOINS BACK BEFORE THEY GET TOO UPSET

What about the money? If he gives back the BTC before the investigation ends, and the police finds out, he will be in big trouble. 

Why? So it's better for him if police discover that he got money and BTC that does not belong him !


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 20, 2013, 10:08:46 AM
This guy shouldn’t be sue, he should be hunted by costumers and forced to release what he is  holding from others. Arrest, liberty restriction  or material seizure will only serve has another excuses for his lack of action.
This guy behave like he is hiding something very wrong,  If he does not run/hide in next few days he is going to crash in whatever hands !  

PM me to build a team to chase him down... it will serve for others example !


I don't think he's hiding something. But his communication is extremely bad.


The bitcoins are an issue... the banks have been explained.


SIMON PLEASE JUST COMMUNICATE WHAT'S GOING ON AND GIVE PEOPLE THEIR BITCOINS BACK BEFORE THEY GET TOO UPSET


What about the money? If he gives back the BTC before the investigation ends, and the police finds out, he will be in big trouble. 

Why? So it's better for him if police discover that he got money and BTC that does not belong him !



If I was Simon, I would probably wait and assess the problem before acting.

Simon probably doesn't know what to do yet. In fact, it's clear he doesn't know what to do yet.


Now, give the problem he has, the best thing to do is wait and work out what to do.

Also, with all the bad mouthing that's been going on of him, he's probably a bit confused about how he feels about helping everyone.


I just wish he would communicate clearer, even if it's to give little updates and not make big decisions yet.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Newscastix on April 20, 2013, 04:53:15 PM
Simon is alive and someone had contact with him recently.

You can check the latest posts at:

http://board.btc24-help.com



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: meyerbtc on April 20, 2013, 05:11:44 PM
Simon is alive and someone had contact with him recently.

You can check the latest posts at:

http://board.btc24-help.com


ty


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: shantee on April 20, 2013, 07:40:05 PM
Well that's good for him now why this damn asshole doesn't give our BTC back ! (and please don't tell ohh but you have to understand let him some time , this poor Simon as so much troubles, with the banks and blablabla)  ?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 20, 2013, 09:30:53 PM
As long as none of the users of bitcoin-24.com were ever required to submit any official identification papers, anyone who has an account on that website may actually be a money launderer. You start sending out BTCs when that suspicion has been raised, you're just asking for more legal trouble than you're already in.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: pedro82 on April 20, 2013, 10:49:40 PM
As long as none of the users of bitcoin-24.com were ever required to submit any official identification papers, anyone who has an account on that website may actually be a money launderer. You start sending out BTCs when that suspicion has been raised, you're just asking for more legal trouble than you're already in.

If he does not release, next few days, costumers btc he will drawn in sues and probably other troubles, there is a lot in stake  !

Don’t be naïf ...  it’s not a communication problem or restriction, something else happened here !


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michaelGedi on April 21, 2013, 04:06:19 AM
Read these 2 threads... finally someone is talking some sense



http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81&sid=76ce23edbb991e13c2eb416231dcfd5f


http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82&sid=28cfe5634e3a59f7c5c6fb4960c60ef9


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: pedro82 on April 21, 2013, 07:51:41 PM
Read these 2 threads... finally someone is talking some sense



http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81&sid=76ce23edbb991e13c2eb416231dcfd5f


http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82&sid=28cfe5634e3a59f7c5c6fb4960c60ef9


Humm... ???   Simon had gathered here: http://board.btc24-help.com/  a lot of friendly victims ...
Let’s talk . Any one here can tell me where can i find this poor guy , and how he looks like ?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on April 30, 2013, 01:41:13 AM
Just to report that my wife has succesfully transferred her 18 BTC from bitcoin-24 into her private wallet, so she is very happy.

So Simon has turned out to be a very trustworthy young man and much that has been said of him has turned out to be pure FUD.

I'm sure all the fiat will be resolved when the damned banks allow it. Luckily my wife only had <100 eur in fiat.

To me he is more trustworthy now than before the whole escapade happened. And should he develop Bitcoin24 V2 then I will definitely open up an account there.

No doubt he has learned much about exchange management through this so his next engine will be relatively solid, if he charged a small transaction fee then he could employ a few German precision UberGeeks to help harden and scale the system. And they'd be glad of a job, getting in on the ground floor of what may be a great dominant exchange.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: kevcoins on April 30, 2013, 01:42:44 AM
good to know that..


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: sambrose on April 30, 2013, 06:36:20 AM
I would refrain from a wagering site where the admins don't respond in a timely manner. There are plenty of decent sites out there.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on April 30, 2013, 06:37:58 AM
I would refrain from a wagering site where the admins don't respond in a timely manner. There are plenty of decent sites out there.

THE POINT





YOU


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bitbadger on April 30, 2013, 01:10:36 PM
Just to report that my wife has succesfully transferred her 18 BTC from bitcoin-24 into her private wallet, so she is very happy.

So Simon has turned out to be a very trustworthy young man and much that has been said of him has turned out to be pure FUD.

I'm sure all the fiat will be resolved when the damned banks allow it. Luckily my wife only had <100 eur in fiat.

To me he is more trustworthy now than before the whole escapade happened. And should he develop Bitcoin24 V2 then I will definitely open up an account there.

No doubt he has learned much about exchange management through this so his next engine will be relatively solid, if he charged a small transaction fee then he could employ a few German precision UberGeeks to help harden and scale the system. And they'd be glad of a job, getting in on the ground floor of what may be a great dominant exchange.
The Bitcoin infrastructure faces a whole heap of problems right now: hackers, ddos attacks, technical outages, wallet thefts, outright fraud. As well as a lack of reliable professional Bitcoin exchanges.

But the biggest problem is that "the authorities", what you might call the financial establishment,  ie government, banking cartel and financial regulators are all opposed to Bitcoin. They're actively opposed to Bitcoin exchanges and they're opposed to exchanging and transferring money to businesses that use Bitcoin. The more they find out about it, the more the oppose it. Banks are blocking or closing accounts of Bitcoin or Bitcoin related businesses all over the place right now often even without warning.

This type of action is occurring all over the world right now and we haven't seen the end of it. We're only at the start of it.

I wish Simon and his business well but these challenges and the hostility of the authorities make it a  difficult business to succeed in. It's going to be a struggle and a lot of creative ingenuity and determination will be needed from those involved if Bitcoin is to stand a chance to become a major player.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Coinmining on April 30, 2013, 05:38:54 PM
I transferred my coins +24h ago...nothing in my wallet yet.

Did you guys recieve your bitcoins within 24 hours?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ZephramC on April 30, 2013, 09:05:22 PM
I transferred my coins +24h ago...nothing in my wallet yet.

Did you guys recieve your bitcoins within 24 hours?

I took additional two hours in my case. (So within 25-26 hours).


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Coinmining on April 30, 2013, 09:20:31 PM
Ok in the mean time I have recieved the coins...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: donjoe on April 30, 2013, 10:36:21 PM
I have my BTC back as well now.

So Simon has turned out to be a very trustworthy young man and much that has been said of him has turned out to be pure FUD.
Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of silence from TCollar right about now. Must be from the mouthful of his words that he's eating.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on May 01, 2013, 12:09:55 AM
I transferred my coins +24h ago...nothing in my wallet yet.

Did you guys recieve your bitcoins within 24 hours?

about 20 hours i think even thogh we got in quite quick within 10 mins of the site going back online. Perhaps all BTC transactions are being verified and processed by hand?

edit: i see you got your BTC, congrats.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: yucca on May 01, 2013, 12:12:59 AM
I would refrain from a wagering site where the admins don't respond in a timely manner. There are plenty of decent sites out there.

Yes, and that's the reason Simon ought to impose a small transaction fee should he make V2, to pay some people to give better customer correspondence. As it was running it was a system simon seemed to have setup and left to run with only sporadic monitoring.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: sniffinpoprocks on May 01, 2013, 12:24:26 AM
I made my first deposit via wire xfer a day before they went down. I just got logged in and....surprise surprise...funds showing 0.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bitcoinmarketmaker on May 13, 2013, 10:57:54 AM
Successfully transferred very small amount of Bitcoin that I had outstanding at Bitcoin-24.com

Only waiting for around 150 Euro, that I transferred to the polish bank account just days before

Not so much to be worried about... .. .

I wish other people in a more serious situation all the best.

Lessons learned for me is:
- don't leave more BTC in online wallets than really necessary
- if I have to do transfers through the banking system in order to buy BTC, I send it in parts, and let each part not be more than I am "willing" to loose for some time / permanently

For me, this is just a unfortunate event, but not an event that makes me steer away from Bitcoin, it has nothing to do with Bitcoin itself. An event like this, even makes me feel stronger about it.

The rise of Bitcoin can't be stopped, it can only be delayed for a while by governments and bankers. Bitcoin is on a collision course with governments & bankers.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Tiru on May 13, 2013, 11:19:52 AM
Im waiting for the day where his accounts will be unblocked again... im one of the unlucky persons who has FIAT locked there..


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: blaq on May 17, 2013, 12:24:27 PM
Hi, bitcoiners!

Has anyone of those who did not receive their FIAT reported the case to the police or a lawyer and tried to get the money back directly from german or polish authorities or banks? What was the response?

If I can prove the fiat money I have at bitcoin-24 is of legitimate origin and belongs to me, is there any point of going to local police (in other EU state), report the case, present the evidence, and have them talk to German authorities or whoever is holding the money?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: keatonatron on May 18, 2013, 05:13:23 AM
Hi, bitcoiners!

Has anyone of those who did not receive their FIAT reported the case to the police or a lawyer and tried to get the money back directly from german or polish authorities or banks? What was the response?

If I can prove the fiat money I have at bitcoin-24 is of legitimate origin and belongs to me, is there any point of going to local police (in other EU state), report the case, present the evidence, and have them talk to German authorities or whoever is holding the money?


Their lawyers seem to be doing a pretty good job. They have been posting updates just about weekly on bitcoin-24.com that you can read in English and German.

They asked that everyone not file a legal complaint, because that will complicate the situation. Right now they are trying to find out what charges are being presented, and are trying to convince the authorities that the customers shouldn't be punished and should get their money back asap. If things go smoothly, maybe the assets can be unfrozen and returned quickly. If the authorities start hearing of people making legal claims, they won't be able to release everyone's money until those are resolved so the whole thing will take more time.

If you simply can not wait and must do something, I would suggest having your lawyers contact their lawyers to discuss the best route to take.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: blair on May 18, 2013, 05:30:18 AM
I have the same problem : standard SEPA withdrawal has been asked on April


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: freethink2013 on May 18, 2013, 05:01:14 PM
Hi, bitcoiners!

Has anyone of those who did not receive their FIAT reported the case to the police or a lawyer and tried to get the money back directly from german or polish authorities or banks? What was the response?

If I can prove the fiat money I have at bitcoin-24 is of legitimate origin and belongs to me, is there any point of going to local police (in other EU state), report the case, present the evidence, and have them talk to German authorities or whoever is holding the money?

I have the same problem : standard SEPA withdrawal has been asked on April

Open a ticket on the site (and read the lawyer statements.) https://bitcoin-24.com/

Also have a look here: http://board.btc24-help.com/


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: klausn on May 18, 2013, 05:03:16 PM
I have the same problem : standard SEPA withdrawal has been asked on April

also here .... same problem  >:(


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on May 28, 2013, 04:38:49 PM
received a questionnaire from the Berlin DA

http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=FAC2A6391


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: xchrix on May 28, 2013, 06:04:08 PM
received a questionnaire from the Berlin DA

http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=FAC2A6391

wow!! there are some good detailed questions in it. are you answering them?
why you think did you get this mail? huge trading volume?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on May 28, 2013, 06:23:38 PM
received a questionnaire from the Berlin DA

http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=FAC2A6391


wow!! there are some good detailed questions in it. are you answering them?
why you think did you get this mail? huge trading volume?


No.
I filed with the DA since I have 5figures € in the site.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: trace666 on May 29, 2013, 12:46:22 PM
received a questionnaire from the Berlin DA

http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=FAC2A6391

very interesting insight into the actions of the authorities here, thanks for posting! With a few of these detailed questionnaires filled out, the police will have an in-depth understanding of how the business of btc-24 worked. While I can not see any deceptive business practices, I do believe that such a business requires a banking license in Germany.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on May 31, 2013, 09:55:18 AM
new statement!

Bitcoin-24.com ‏@Bitcoin24com 3m ago
New Statement: http://goo.gl/CmaVJ
Neues Statement: http://goo.gl/wbmKF

looks promising


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on May 31, 2013, 04:49:13 PM
I too had both fiat and BTC in there.  BTC's ive received.  The fiat was just transferred to bitcoin-24 (german account) when it shut down, so haven't used it. So when the information in the statement is correct I should be among the first to receive my money back.

i'll post when I have some more info :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on June 11, 2013, 01:41:58 PM
moving forward!

just got mail today:   
 
Quote
Dear ladies and gentleman,
Our client told us, that the amount of x€, which you transferred to the German Commerzbank account, can be referred explicitly to this account. Can you confirm the amount please?
Furthermore, we require some personal data. Please send us the following information:
1. Name
2. Address
3. Place of Birth
4. Date of Birth
5. Nationality


As soon as we get this information and the confirmation of the amount, we’ll arrange the clearing of your money and inform you via e-mail. After this you can withdraw the amount via your bitcoin-24.com account.

Please confirm to us via mail if you received the payment.


Kindest regards
Christian M. Röhl
Attorney at Law
Certified IP Specialist


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: threedrules on June 11, 2013, 01:56:12 PM
still waiting on my 850 euros i got in there which was made with selling btc, so i guess im last in line


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 11, 2013, 02:01:06 PM
still waiting on my 850 euros i got in there which was made with selling btc, so i guess im last in line


yes, since those are on the polish account.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: NoBit on June 11, 2013, 02:02:47 PM
still waiting on my 850 euros i got in there which was made with selling btc, so i guess im last in line


yes, since those are on the polish account.



I have money in the Commerzbank. Any idea when do I get them?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: threedrules on June 11, 2013, 02:22:23 PM
you will get an email on the email you registered with at bitcoin-24.com
check bitcoin-24.com and click press releases


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: DeathAndTaxes on June 11, 2013, 04:00:36 PM
Where did bitcoin-24 keep USD balances?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on June 13, 2013, 11:39:35 AM
Quote
On 13/06/2013 13:46, Röhl · Dehm & Partner Rechtsanwälte wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. x,
>

>
> You can withdraw the certified amount in your bitcoin-24.com account now. Please log in under bicoin24.com and use the usual procedure for withdrawing your funds.
>

>
> Please inform us, as soon as you’ve received the money.
>

>
> Kindest regards
>

>
> Michaela Berger
>
> Attorney at law
>


5 min later...

Quote
Success! We saved your withdraw into the database. We need about 3-6 business days for the payment!




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: NoBit on June 13, 2013, 12:26:06 PM
Quote
On 13/06/2013 13:46, Röhl · Dehm & Partner Rechtsanwälte wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. x,
>
>  
>
> You can withdraw the certified amount in your bitcoin-24.com account now. Please log in under bicoin24.com and use the usual procedure for withdrawing your funds.
>
>  
>
> Please inform us, as soon as you’ve received the money.
>
>  
>
> Kindest regards
>
>  
>
> Michaela Berger
>
> Attorney at law
>
>  

5 min later...

Quote
Success! We saved your withdraw into the database. We need about 3-6 business days for the payment!




Have you made any BTC transactions on this account?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on June 13, 2013, 03:29:13 PM
yes but not with the money deposited. that was deposited just before they closed the banks and thus never used in any transaction.  The ones in the same situation should also have received emails for their withdraw, the others should follow pretty soon i guess.

Quote
   

Bank-Withdraw

Dear User Kj1,

We have executed your withdrawal with a bank transfer to the
following bank account:

Name: x
IBAN: x
BIC: x
Amount: xEUR
Fee: 0.00 EUR

Your Bitcoin-24 Team



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: teston25 on June 14, 2013, 12:23:52 AM
Thanks for the update Kj1, much appreciated, hope they'll sort the polish account soon.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on June 17, 2013, 07:46:10 AM
Okay!! Today I received my money transfer from btc24! wohoooo
It came from Simons german account.

I hope the others are as lucky as me for getting their funds back, but at least there is hope and proof that they do try their best & keep their word (if you neglect the definition of "week" :))

Patience, and all will be ok!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: pinky on June 17, 2013, 09:47:01 AM
I am happy for you, I hope Polish account will be released soon.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 17, 2013, 09:56:51 AM
I am happy for you, I hope Polish account will be released soon.


+5000


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kuma on June 17, 2013, 10:51:25 AM
I am happy for you, I hope Polish account will be released soon.

And hopefully they will start releasing funds from sold BTC.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: naphto on June 17, 2013, 11:45:19 AM
I am happy for you, I hope Polish account will be released soon.


+5000


Good luck :D


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on June 17, 2013, 01:32:53 PM
Feeling good about this.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Bitcoiner333 on June 17, 2013, 02:47:05 PM
So they just scammed you?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Apraksin on June 17, 2013, 05:18:16 PM
My sweet fiat has come home! Finally I can buy some BTC again!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bongwater on June 17, 2013, 05:59:07 PM
90% sure they are scam site


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bvadrich on June 17, 2013, 06:01:16 PM
Is there any consensus on whether it is a scam site or not?
Does anyone have a count or proof of claims that it is/is not legit?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Alexander The Great on June 17, 2013, 06:20:31 PM
Yep I can confirm this is a scam site.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 17, 2013, 06:48:49 PM
bitcoin-24 is NOT repeat NOT a scam site.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 17, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
bitcoin-24 is NOT repeat NOT a scam site.
+1 They were just very unlucky.
If they were a scam, why pay out BTC and now FIAT deposited in the German account?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: codesuela on June 17, 2013, 07:17:59 PM
site wasn't a scam and the investigation is definitely real


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: blueberry on June 18, 2013, 12:29:48 AM
Okay!! Today I received my money transfer from btc24! wohoooo
It came from Simons german account.

I hope the others are as lucky as me for getting their funds back, but at least there is hope and proof that they do try their best & keep their word (if you neglect the definition of "week" :))

Patience, and all will be ok!



My sweet fiat has come home! Finally I can buy some BTC again!


Congratulations to both of you! Hopefully the rest of us won't have to wait much longer.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on June 18, 2013, 07:25:11 AM
btc24 is not a scam site

if and when btc24-2 get online, i'm defendantly gonna give it a try.
Hope they give priority to returning fiat though


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: NoBit on June 18, 2013, 01:52:47 PM
btc24 is not a scam site

if and when btc24-2 get online, i'm defendantly gonna give it a try.
Hope they give priority to returning fiat though

Well my money is frozen there. I really hope they give it back to me in 1 month.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bongwater on June 18, 2013, 03:24:52 PM
bitcoin-24 is it legit or not?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 18, 2013, 04:05:11 PM
bitcoin-24 is it legit or not?
I suggest everybody ignores noobs collecting posts.
This guy for example managed to post 100+ posts in 1 day. :o
People posting nonsense to mislead people with their status should be banned imho.

Edit:
90% sure they are scam site
That idiot even managed to post on this very same page already. Unfuckingbelievable.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: macintosh on June 18, 2013, 04:46:21 PM
I have a serious problem with this site.

They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I would strongly suggest you stay away from that place until I have sorted this out.

Admin have answered only after 5 days, and promised to fix, BUT, Nothing happens and no answer.

No answer at ANY address!

This is serious and I welcome any help.

Yep stay far, far away bitcoin-24.com is a known scammer site.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kuma on June 19, 2013, 04:30:08 PM
I have a serious problem with this site.

They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I would strongly suggest you stay away from that place until I have sorted this out.

Admin have answered only after 5 days, and promised to fix, BUT, Nothing happens and no answer.

No answer at ANY address!

This is serious and I welcome any help.

Yep stay far, far away bitcoin-24.com is a known scammer site.

Another one....  >:(

bitcoin-24.com has fallen to the government/bank investigation so the funds in fiat were and are frozen. But it's possible to withdrawn BTC.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on June 19, 2013, 07:37:56 PM
I don't understand the point of this trolling.. "is this a scam site?" etc

Its not as if they have resumed trading and people are checking whether to deposit.
People who have/had their funds stuck already know if its scam or not.




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on June 19, 2013, 07:56:51 PM
received a questionnaire from the Berlin DA

http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=FAC2A6391


wow!! there are some good detailed questions in it. are you answering them?
why you think did you get this mail? huge trading volume?


No.
I filed with the DA since I have 5figures € in the site.


2weix, thank you for sharing. Any updates on your issue with Berlin DA yet?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 19, 2013, 08:27:52 PM
fydel alte sau, not much chance there since berlin da closed the case.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on June 19, 2013, 08:56:19 PM
fydel alte sau, not much chance there since berlin da closed the case.

Why was 2weix's case closed?
What was the outcome?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 19, 2013, 08:59:18 PM
I believe he didnt file a seperate case.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on June 19, 2013, 09:06:00 PM
I believe he didnt file a seperate case.

Ah. Ok. I think I got it wrong..
I thought 2weix filled a seperate case and received the detailed questionnaire because of doing this.  :-\


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 20, 2013, 10:49:10 AM
I believe he didnt file a seperate case.

Ah. Ok. I think I got it wrong..
I thought 2weix filled a seperate case and received the detailed questionnaire because of doing this.  :-\

i did file a claim towards my ~15000 on bitcoin-24 and thus got the questionnaire.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 20, 2013, 10:55:24 AM
i did file a claim towards my ~15000 on bitcoin-24 and thus got the questionnaire.
so what happened?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 20, 2013, 10:59:13 AM
i did file a claim towards my ~15000 on bitcoin-24 and thus got the questionnaire.
so what happened?

nothing yet.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 20, 2013, 11:02:09 AM
lemme get this straight, you filed your own claim against btc24?
on grounds of fraud?
and its still open?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 20, 2013, 01:42:56 PM
lemme get this straight, you filed your own claim against btc24?
on grounds of fraud?
and its still open?

no, I didn't.
I filed a claim for release of my funds, for documentational reasons only (to stake my claim, so to speak).

If I wanted to get a title, I would've had to file against Simon, which I refused to do since I did not want to be instrumentalized by the powers that be to make an unwarranted case against him. I do not believe that Simone is a fraud, I believe he's an enthusiast in way over his head. Thus, accusing him of fraud would have been extremely foul play.

Filing a claim against the Ltd would've been of no use (since, LOL, it's "Limited" status).

It is interesting, though, that the DA forces you to file against Simon when I would have *wanted* to file against the Berlin and Polish DA for unlawful seizure of my funds or something.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 20, 2013, 02:29:49 PM
Filing a claim against the Ltd would've been of no use (since, LOL, it's "Limited" status).
My bad, BTC24 and Simon became synonymous for me.
It is interesting, though, that the DA forces you to file against Simon when I would have *wanted* to file against the Berlin and Polish DA for unlawful seizure of my funds or something.
Thats one of the downsides of Europe, you cant sue the DA for whatever they have dreamed up.

And even though i still dont understand the claim, we are pretty much on the same page.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 20, 2013, 02:54:57 PM
Filing a claim against the Ltd would've been of no use (since, LOL, it's "Limited" status).
My bad, BTC24 and Simon became synonymous for me.
It is interesting, though, that the DA forces you to file against Simon when I would have *wanted* to file against the Berlin and Polish DA for unlawful seizure of my funds or something.
Thats one of the downsides of Europe, you cant sue the DA for whatever they have dreamed up.

And even though i still dont understand the claim, we are pretty much on the same page.


the claim was, simply put:

"i have X€ on bitcoin-24s account #xyz. I have used these usernames and the accounts had these bank accounts as withdrawal targets. please free up the money."

just to make sure that I said it's mine first.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 20, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
So it is a claim based on fraud. You are in the eye of the law "claiming" he doesnt want to pay you out.
And in laymans terms Simons lawyer is saying "We would like to, but we cant".
Case closed.
 


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on June 20, 2013, 06:22:16 PM
So it is a claim based on fraud. You are in the eye of the law "claiming" he doesnt want to pay you out.
And in laymans terms Simons lawyer is saying "We would like to, but we cant".
Case closed.
 


no.

I only made a claim.


to actually make that claim effective (and receive a title), I would have to go after Simon, and the only way to do that is accusing him of fraud, which he clearly didnt commit. so there.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: legitnick on June 20, 2013, 06:36:31 PM
From what I heard in this thread stay away from Bitcoin-24.com


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on June 20, 2013, 06:41:34 PM
How can anybody not stay away from it?
Its closed. :)


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: positivelybitcoin on June 20, 2013, 07:18:47 PM
Thanks for the warning. It sounds like something PayPal would do.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Kj1 on June 21, 2013, 07:47:03 AM
New Statement: http://buff.ly/19VZE47
Neues Statement: http://buff.ly/19VZCct


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: michalko on June 21, 2013, 03:08:01 PM
For those having Gmail and money frozen with Bitcoin-24 check your SPAM folder.

Their lawyers sent me email on 10th June but it went to spam folder, I realized only yesterday.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on July 09, 2013, 03:11:54 PM
Any news by now?

I have read on kuttlers blog that some ppl received their fiat money. But only if the fiat wasn't used for trading.
I still have around 3k € there.

Any recommandations what I can do instead of just waiting?

Will filing a claim cost me money?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on July 09, 2013, 03:17:13 PM
I have read on kuttlers blog that some ppl received their fiat money. But only if the fiat wasn't used for trading.
And more importantly paid to the Commerzbank account, which was ope for 3 days only.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on July 09, 2013, 03:24:34 PM
I have read on kuttlers blog that some ppl received their fiat money. But only if the fiat wasn't used for trading.
And more importantly paid to the Commerzbank account, which was ope for 3 days only.

Oh. Yes of course. I did forgot that. Thank you for adding.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: threedrules on July 09, 2013, 04:18:23 PM
the site says next update is on 11th of july


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on July 11, 2013, 09:19:38 PM
So the new update sux!
I have been a vivid supporter of Simon until now, actually i still am, but his lawyers latest statement just makes me mad.
It basically says "There are few a few black sheep and because of them nobody will receive their money back in the foreseeable future. Oh and btw dont wait for any updates."
Also this was known to them for a long time and they didnt inform their customers.

I am considering hiring a real lawyer(cause theirs apparently isnt), who will get us some clarification.
And just to be clear, i am not looking to go after Simon, but rather the authorities.
Please PM me if you are ready to do so, too.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: apetersson on July 11, 2013, 09:40:38 PM
this is not looking too good.
apparently some of the polish funds will remain seized.
after they have been identified the "black sheep" will not recieve euros. fine. so what will happen if a so-called back sheep has sold his ill-gotten money for bitcoins and already withdrew them? bitcoins have already been paid out.

who is going to take the loss?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on July 11, 2013, 09:43:56 PM
who do you think?
and if i would be washing cash thru btc24, i would get it out asap


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Beutelschneider on July 18, 2013, 01:01:24 PM
...
after they have been identified the "black sheep" will not recieve euros. fine. so what will happen if a so-called back sheep has sold his ill-gotten money for bitcoins and already withdrew them? bitcoins have already been paid out.

who is going to take the loss?

That's why the BTC should NEVER have been paid out 'til the black sheep were separated from the white sheep and ALL banking accounts were unfrozen!

It's like sue the owner of an apartment 'cause:

-a bad guy bought stuff online with bad money (at least there must be no money involved, just order it on invoice might be enough sometimes!)
-ordered it to an apartment complex to someones apartment in the 15th floor
-waits for the deliverer and intercepts him "Oh, you got my $very_expensive_thing...i'll carry it up myself to the 15th floor, where do i have to sign?"

The owner of the apartment doesn't know anything about this, the shop got the bad money(or nothing if its paid on invoice), the deliverer did his job, the bad guy gets away with the expensive stuff if he isn't real dumb. 




Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on July 29, 2013, 03:15:46 PM
So, the there months are over now. As Simon's attorney told us there should have been a solution by now.

@2weiX: You said you filed a claim against btc-24. How can I do that? Do I need to hire a attorney?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 2weiX on July 29, 2013, 04:02:31 PM
So, the there months are over now. As Simon's attorney told us there should have been a solution by now.

@2weiX: You said you filed a claim against btc-24. How can I do that? Do I need to hire a attorney?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I didn't in the end.
Since a claim can only go against the OWNER of the company, and I didn't agree to charging him with fraud when in my eyes he didn't defraud me.

I am thinking of setting up a fund of sorts to get a class-act against the polish authorities.
I need to talk this through with my lawyers first, though.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on July 30, 2013, 12:45:26 AM
So, the there months are over now. As Simon's attorney told us there should have been a solution by now.

@2weiX: You said you filed a claim against btc-24. How can I do that? Do I need to hire a attorney?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I didn't in the end.
Since a claim can only go against the OWNER of the company, and I didn't agree to charging him with fraud when in my eyes he didn't defraud me.

I am thinking of setting up a fund of sorts to get a class-act against the polish authorities.
I need to talk this through with my lawyers first, though.

Och. Menno! Das ist doch alles extrem unklar wie hier von Dehm & Röhl & Partner kommuniziert wird.
Ich fühle mich langsam echt verpäppelt. Ich gehe im Laufe der Woche mal zu einem richtigen Rechtsanwalt und lasse mich mal ernsthaft beraten.



Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: 10bserver8 on July 30, 2013, 12:52:56 AM
no wai!


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on July 30, 2013, 06:07:02 PM
no wai!

Wai?

Ich verstehe nicht genau was Du meinst.
Magst Du Dich bitte ein bisschen eindeutiger erklären?


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: fydel on August 01, 2013, 03:05:04 PM
no wai!

Wai?

Ich verstehe nicht genau was Du meinst.
Magst Du Dich bitte ein bisschen eindeutiger erklären?

Ach. Du meinst wahrscheinlich Koh Wai, wunderschöne Insel in Thailand. Trotzdem verstehe ich den Zusammenhang nicht.

Hier ist übrigens mein Einhorn, nachdem es auf Koh Wai, erfahren hat, dass 62 BTC und knapp 3k € in Polen eingefroren wurden, Amok gelaufen.
Den Rest des Urlaubs hat es dann nur noch Define aufgespießt und vor aller Hass Babyschildenkröten zertreten.

http://i.imgur.com/CYYNkwB.jpg

edit: Typos


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on October 10, 2013, 04:36:03 PM
http://www.rdp-law.de/presse.html


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: xchrix on October 10, 2013, 06:47:54 PM
http://www.rdp-law.de/presse.html

thx for the link!!! its good that there are some news.. but they are bad news :(


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on October 10, 2013, 06:58:35 PM
http://www.rdp-law.de/presse.html

thx for the link!!! its good that there are some news.. but they are bad news :(

indeed, and when it comes to voting(wtf?), everybody who chooses option 3 is giving up their right in their stake


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: hannet on October 11, 2013, 09:22:35 PM
Update: 10 October
Source: https://bitcoin-24.com/download/2013_10_10_en.pdf

"Dear Customers of BTC 24 Ltd.,
We would like to apologise – also on behalf of our client – for the long interval that has elapsed between clarifications. The reason for this was and is the constantly changing situation in Poland. Since the last clarification, numerous discussions and negotiations have been held by our clients Polish lawyers with the Polish Public Prosecutor's Office. Last week, we held a further comprehensive discussion with the Polish lawyers, so that we are now in a position to issue a new statement.

In this context, it must first be stated that the situation in Poland and the approach adopted by the Polish Public Prosecutor's Office appears increasingly bleak and, from the perspective of the rule of law, no longer reconcilable.

The Polish Public Prosecutor's Office has, till date, not permitted our clients Polish lawyers to scrutinise the files. We are, therefore, dependent upon statements made by the Polish Public Prosecutor's Office to the Polish lawyers, since the former party comments on the state of affairs mostly in discussions – if at all. For this reason, it is also beyond difficult to draw legal inferences from these constantly changing statements and to develop strategies for subjecting the matter to definitive legal clarification and solution."


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: hannet on October 11, 2013, 09:27:18 PM
Also from the lawyer's statement:

"It is gradually becoming evident that the Polish Public Prosecutor's Office conjures up new allegations out of a hat whenever all reasons for confiscation are refuted and, thus, delays the matter."


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on October 24, 2013, 09:27:30 AM
http://kuttler.eu/post/what-happened-bitcoin24/

This might be a solution for some of you, but be warned that the owner of that blog has an amazing 400€ sitting there.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: trout on October 29, 2013, 02:35:22 PM
hi all

do you know of any way to reach the btc24 guys?

I want them just to update my account balance
so once (or if) they do get the money they  can send me the right amount.
(It incorrectly shows as processed  a wire that never came through)
Using the "contact" form and emailing gives no response





Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: pinky on October 29, 2013, 03:03:36 PM
hi all

do you know of any way to reach the btc24 guys?



The best way is to contact their lawyers and explain what happened to you: http://www.rdp-law.de/presse.html


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on October 30, 2013, 11:58:39 PM
There is a poll online now:
https://bitcoin-24.com/poll
Also a new statement is online:
http://www.rdp-law.de/presse.html


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: der_markus on November 04, 2013, 10:23:32 PM
And the poll is over again.

Hopefully we will get a new statement soon.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: trout on November 12, 2013, 09:14:09 PM
new statement (https://bitcoin-24.com/download/2013_11_08_en.pdf)

"residency registration certificate"

what does that even mean.
poor English becomes incomprehensible when it's about legal documents

Anyway for now you can't upload documents anywhere


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: ZephramC on November 12, 2013, 09:19:52 PM
new statement (https://bitcoin-24.com/download/2013_11_08_en.pdf)

"residency registration certificate"

what does that even mean.
poor English becomes incomprehensible when it's about legal documents

Anyway for now you can't upload documents anywhere


It is "Meldebescheinigung" in German. I do not know what it means exactly. But I guess it is something that proves your residency (eg. electricity bill).


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: FTWbitcoinFTW on November 12, 2013, 09:26:58 PM
This statement is BS !!

They use lawers blabla just for a poll result ?

No news information, money is still blocked by poland

Now you juste have to make a normal account for a website dealing with money.
What BTC-24 should have ask you before sending any money...


tl;dr : IF you fill all form and give a DNA sample and IF poland release money, you'll see maybe 72% of your money...


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: trout on November 15, 2013, 11:17:04 AM
new statement (https://bitcoin-24.com/download/2013_11_08_en.pdf)

"residency registration certificate"

what does that even mean.
poor English becomes incomprehensible when it's about legal documents

Anyway for now you can't upload documents anywhere


It is "Meldebescheinigung" in German. I do not know what it means exactly. But I guess it is something that proves your residency (eg. electricity bill).

electricity bill is also on their list, separately. So it must be something else.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!???
Post by: Buschkowsky on November 17, 2014, 06:14:59 PM
Does someone know which lawyer or attorney now processed Simon Hausdorf / bitcoin-24 case?
Chambers "Röhl · Dehm & Partner" does not any more.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!???
Post by: pinky on November 17, 2014, 06:23:19 PM
Does someone know which lawyer or attorney now processed Simon Hausdorf / bitcoin-24 case?
Chambers "Röhl · Dehm & Partner" does not any more.

We don't know, Simon disapperead.

Here is new forum: http://forum.bitcoin24-victims.co.uk/


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: Amitabh S on November 18, 2014, 06:28:24 AM
Did Simon disappear? It seems the new site is up again. Who is running this site, and more importantly who is using this site? People with black-money who don't care? I would not touch this with a 100 light year pole.

EDIT: my bad. He indeed seems to have ran away.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: bernard75 on July 07, 2015, 04:44:32 AM
Quote from: timoue
A small update: Simon's profile at Xing is up again: https://www.xing.com/profile/Simon_Hausdorf#
He appears to be working on the "Bitcoin Payments Integration" for Amorelie.de, which is yet another online shop for sex toys. Amorelia is run by Sonoma Internet GmbH in Berlin, but the CEO is not Benjamin Schröder or anyone else that I would recognize.


Title: Re: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!
Post by: SolarSilver on October 30, 2016, 07:15:29 AM
Quote from: timoue
A small update: Simon's profile at Xing is up again: https://www.xing.com/profile/Simon_Hausdorf#
He appears to be working on the "Bitcoin Payments Integration" for Amorelie.de, which is yet another online shop for sex toys. Amorelia is run by Sonoma Internet GmbH in Berlin, but the CEO is not Benjamin Schröder or anyone else that I would recognize.

Has anybody had any update on the funds that Simon has to pay is Back?