Bitcoin Forum

What i see as the big problem with Crypto Currencies is Money.
Ironic ? LOL

I am posting this because i'd like to see us as a giant think tank of sorts for the future of money.

How do we do this crap ?
Well you can all see it's rooted in the bags "investors" are holding.
Most commentary is tainted and skewed to favor each investors personal agenda.

Which means you will not get any honest commentary.. or real innovation or useful discussion.
The only time this ever happens here is when a bag holder wants to prop up his forum account with some integrity or attack another coin to further the other coin they are supporting.

It amounts to a little bit of talk.. and not much more.
At the and of the day we have the same old same old.. the same crypto greed game year in and year out.

When i joined this stuff i had no idea what a key part Morality played in it all.
It was a learning process i had to figure it out as fast as possible.
And i do not expect everyone to be on the same page with it all either.
It takes time ..i know it was all a lot to soak in and read about when i came here.

Plus morality i think is likely to be a thing with age.
An older person is more likely to be legit than a teen who doesn't give a shit.

So rather than posting yet another topic here asking you all..
"What features do you want in ANOTHER coin"

I want to ask you all, how can we improve the situation ?

Morality is the major barrier.

For example a while back i seen an older user here (kelsey) i always agree with who mentioned some idea about removing the concept of removing the reward from hashing on a block chain.
I don't know how kelsey's idea worked at all but i am curious and would like to hear more.

Is there a better way or are we stuck doing it with the carrot on a stick approach ?
I always envisioned something like all the hashing computers used in tandem to do nominated scientific projects.. sort of like Prime Coin.
For a reward of course.
A monetary currency fueled by our greed essentially.

Think of my idea as a Grid Coin.
Where users hashing maybe vote for a major University project that will get "funded" with all of Earth's computers to tackle a scientific problem.
Then when voted-in the entire planets computing power is put to a good use crunching numbers for a scientific problem.

And this type of concept is the future.
More and more we are needing massive amounts of computing power for scientific research.
It could be for curing a disease or for calculating the impact of an Asteroid coming at us.
Or simply for trying to figure out what and how Dark Energy or Dark Matter works.

vs. hashing away for no reason at all (wasting electricity)

But the barrier is money (greed)
And it's obvious when you read topics at Bitcointalk.org.
The greedy have seized the reigns of crypto.
Can i convince the greedy that a constructive and useful agenda will provide them profits later ?

Positive and constructive things breed money and success.
Really it boils down to Kevin Coster playing baseball saying if we build it they will come.

So any ideas or thoughts on the matter people ?

Spoetnik. I'm proud of you. That is an intelligent and thoughtful post. Speaking of aging and maturity - you have certainly showed such in the last year.

In regards to your post, I have to agree with the lack of morality and the advent of greed in crypto. One has to expect it whenever money is involved and cryptocurrencies are excellent for raking in the cash with no barriers or consequences.

I also agree with projects like gridcoin, foldingcoin, solarcoin, etc. that try to provide a viable/moral reason to mine/use. Now, don't run out and buy these coins because I mentioned them. I know little about them but I like the idea behind them. Why we don't get behind projects like these is a mystery to me. Its easier for devs to clone bitcoin or litecoin and sell the hell out of them for a quick buck. We jump from scam to scam for no apparent reason despite all the moaning and groaning we do about shitcoins and icos.

It gets tiresome warning people to stay the hell away from ico but they still insist on throwing good money away on them. Do they not learn or is it a new crop of suckers every time?  I have to admit interest in altcoins has diminished over time. This forum is not nearly as busy as it once was.

Thanks eh.. my attitude though is directly linked to my history around here.
I have watched sooooo much bloody bullshit.
You lose your patience to kiss the ass of scammy worms.

I agree it comes with the territory too.. i get it.

I too am also mystified how users have side stepped the coins that do meaningful work.
I can only come to the conclusion of greed and patience.
Which links me back to why i started this topic.

The greed barrier and the link to morality (users showing up here to profit off anything at all costs.)

I tried out Grid Coin briefly solo mining like 2 years back and i never did get a block.
But the concept was tantalizing and fascinating !
It had a massive amount of code written from scratch and i set it up with SETI to search for fucking ALIENS  :o

I was a bit late taking part in Prime Coin and i can't even recall if i made any coins at all mining them.
I started too late.. the difficulty hashing was already too high when i started.
But whether i had any of the coins or not was not the point.. i supported the idea regardless of the weight of my wallet.

A key point here is the dev's motivations become apparent when they are willing to cater to profiteers.
They should be repelling them !

I just finished reminding you all how these guys PLAN on dumping.. once they get their childish impatient little profits.
They are not showing up to support your coin project.
They came to be temporary bag holders then dump it into the dirt.
So why would dev's think attracting these guys and catering to them is a good thing ?

I think if you came only to profit and you can not have a respectable level of morality here trying to profit then you should GTFO.

Lets break it down..
If a user is going to loiter around here to pump and dump knowingly bad scam coins ?
Then i think we should show them the door.. they contribute NOTHING useful to crypto.

On the other hand if there is guys who want to profit but are willing to pick & choose which projects DESERVE your valuable support then i say, welcome and enjoy your stay :)

Both those users may be the same person.. i hope i can convince the crowd that being a supporter will be in your own best financial interest too.

Hmmmm, so Gridcoin, Primecoin,Folding Coin, Cure Coin.....

Real good post!
I always say to everyone who ask me where toninvest to make own research! We have googleand you can ask and research!
I am into crypto from 2009 and i see plenty scams all iver!
Before scammers use Forex to scam now they start to use cryptocurrency!
But problem is that peoples want to become rich over night! Its not possible at all!
In crypto you need time!
From 2009 plenty shit happens but also plenty good!
I love cryptocurrency!
Crypto make me milionar so i am happy!

All happy new year 2017! 😜🍾

being into crypto since 2009 and you end up in leocoin?

Nevermind "crypto = morality" just focus on your morals  ;D

please shut the fuck up you pathetic piece of garbage... ::)

I sincerely hope that Leocoin dies in 2017.

Guys i have good stock of btc! Nice stock of maidsafe and leocoin and huge stock one coin i cant tell! You can say what you want but crypto make me few milions already! And will make more 👍🏼
You can say bad about me but you cant kill me! I am good and i am happy!
 Ryptocurrencu is future and i love it!

Ethics != morality.

Moralizing is like trying to put your culture on someone else:

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethics_vs_Morals

Our problem is crypto is not having technological decentralization. Period. The entire point is that nobody should be able to manipulate the blockchain.

Everyone should be free to do what ever they want. The blockchain should be agnostic and uncontrolled by a centralized power.

Sorry I disagree with your theme. And I will prove it! (whether you like it or not, your words will have no power in the outcome)

You can't tell nature to not be nature. Outlawing greed is the equivalent of outlawing philanthropy. Outlawing evil is the equivalent of outlawing good. You don't understand the inviolable physics of the universe you live in.


All of these matters will become much more clear to all of you soon ... when a certain whitepaper is published. Right now you are all confused.

fact crypto coin only about money
can get much money, but and then if want can get much money, appear coin dev scamer, this news can get collect much money and run away capital money investor ebitz coin (200 bitcoin) and decloud (over 300 bitcoin) only one month , is very fantastic

The pinnacle of human society IMO is a public hospital in a modern country with universal health care. If a foreigner on holiday gets sick, or anyone residing in the country, they will usually get treatment based on their need, as judged by a medical person. It doesn't matter who the person is, they will use a lot of highly skilled people using all the best available medicines and equipment, and they will try their best to help the sick or injured person. This is a truly wonderful achievement, and when you witness it up close you realise how far humans have evolved, and what our true potential might be. BUT, this only exists because of compulsory taxation and redistribution from the state. If left to individuals alone there would never be a situation where strangers would spend thousands or millions helping people who could never pay. This is the truth, the good samaritan can only help one guy at a time, unless the state uses force to redistribute resources from the haves to the have nots. Medical staff in publoc hospitals are shielded from this reality, so they can act purely on need, as if they're in a bubble where the opportunity cost of treating someone doesn't matter, so they can act 'morally'.

So what does that have to do with crypto? Well, I see the issue of morality in crypto exactly the same way. We can design a 'beautiful and moral' crypto system, and it can be based on sound ethical considerations, but unless there is compulsion involved backed up force, it wont last. Just as universal health care is impossible without compulsory taxation and redistribution. If you want decentralisation you wont have compulsion and force, so what you end up with wont be ethical, but it can still be a whole lot better than what we've got now. The current system is rigged, the crypto system isn't. There's free entry and competition, which should improve the outcome, but it's got nothing to do with morality or ethics. Bad actors have to compete with honest ones in a free market, and that's far superior to modern banking and fiat.

People read into what i say a lot.. i had no desire to ban being greedy.
I simply pointed out the carrot & the stick and how i heard of an older user that had a revolutionary idea.
kelsey did not elaborate though.
So I wonder if there is a better motivator than getting a block and receiving coins.

Humanity does not HAVE to be designed deliberately to run pandering to the greedy.
If that is what our species has evolved into then we got far bigger problems than currency shit.

Shelby you said before a good project can't be done with-out a million in cash up front to pay for dev's.
Your attitude is already well known..
I disagree of course.. plenty of people are willing to work their ass off for nothing.
Purely out of principle or maybe even boredom LOL

The key point i think is this bullshit is catering to the greedy on purpose.
Of all the people out there it's the fucking worthless little pieces of shit you are bending over backwards to attract to this crap.

Such as Ransomware makers who just fucking love Bitcoin  :D
Or the old school pro scammers from the financial world that thought hey we can manipulate block chains for profit.. pump then dump ring a bell ?

You all talk a lot of shit but won't put your money where your mouth is.
Shelby i seen you posting a lot of Steem links before.... why ?
It's a rigged scammy scheme coin.. something any sensible person with a shred of integrity would not go near.

Infinity i repeat.. profit is not bad.
Profit from a scam is !
Don't merge the two and defend it.

And by the way don't forget we are operating (in) a mostly lawless environment with this stuff.
People are right now getting away with shit that would get them jail time in the traditional stock markets.
Want to defend that ?
Fine..
Just makes sure you abolish all laws and regulations related to the financial world while you are it.
You can't have it both ways guys..

And spare me the "exception" retort ..heard it before.
Just because a law *CAN* be broken does not mean we should drop the law all together.
So why should we have no laws in crypto then cater to greedy dick heads willing to show up here to spend FIAT --> BTC --> on anything they can profit from ?
Why are we deliberately doing this then defending it.. all year round for close to 8 years now.

So tell me profiteers hows that shitty mentality workin' out for ya ?
Rich yet ? Got yer Lambo'z ? ..oh you DID make a fuckton of money ? Weeeell congrats to you then..
Is that "Currency" adopted yet ?

no place for morality in crypto!

I love your posts, but they so damn long to read  ;D
I am still for a messaging system based on blockchain tech, or database managed by blockchain, or content protection storage and management by blockchain, but using non minable nor stakable blockchain.
People are so much greedy, look at the recent scam coins released on the forum, they are all the same, i wonder if it is not the same guy who is releasing them using different accounts.

How much have YOU lost on Mt. Gox, Mintpal, Cryptsy, McxNOW.. or the others who were "hacked" before ?

NO MORALITY !!!!1111

But plenty of crying Troll / FUD right ?

Ever seen the scam section here ?
Or the market section + Paypal's TOS ?

Oh and ..Is that better nemgun ? ;)  ;D

I like this parts. The crypto features = The shields for the abuser.  
Where can they make some bucks with just sitting on his chair and keeping their eyes on his monitor? This was being discovered just in Initial Coin Offering.  Really sad but it was being the true answer.  ::)

Hah :D for sure, i can read the full post, every single word, great ! :D

Crypto isn't morality, but the radical free market structure in this new environment will eventually lead to moral behaviour through the laws of behavioural incentives.
There are huge incentives to capitalise on ignorance, however these actors won't be around for long. Because where ever there is an inefficiency, there is incentives to counter them. Investing blindly in scams with devs with no reputation or even completely nameless actors is being punished while investing in well 
vetted projects with realistic promises and a solid model are rewarded. So there is a behavioural shift occurring and there is a market of trust being built.
The scams will eventually diminish to a minimum and thats also when mass adoption is going to happen. Instead of capitalising on peoples ignorance by scamming them, people will do so by providing a reputational platform (for a fee of course). Like gateways for the masses.

I don't know how far away we are, but we are definitely moving in that direction.

J.V.

I did not lost but I have seen it all... it was sad...

Solid projects with vetted dev's ?
Innovation and features ?

There is 6,000 ANN topics roughly when i counted a year earlier.
How many offered any REAL innovation ?
Apparently to many of you lots..

What i see is maybe 90% modding some other coin with an attempt at a gimmick.
I am talking about the criteria you guys use to claim innovation and legit etc.

Dev's vetted ? BULL FUCKING SHIT !

A guy named Paul stole your fucking coins from Cryptsy and a guy named Mark stole your coins from GOX
..Butters dumped a million dollars worth of his ICO scam coins on you all.
He also never showed his face around here to man up and answer all the questions about his scam either.

Get it ?

No you don't and you never will because you CHOOSE to see this crap as something good & legit
..no matter how scammy it is.

You CHOOSE to ignore the context habitually.
You back some coin with a minor change in features then scream innovation.
Then pretend it is not in fact coin 3,004 of 5,321.
Launched on a forum that allows scams backed by greedy scammy profiteers.
All in a lawless Wannabe "penny stocks" greed market.

AKA: spinning bullshit for bucks.. real bucks.. cold hard cash money $$$

the real reason for PoW is network security.

the ability for anyone to write blocks needs to be securely managed in such a way that it is safe to assume the network is not under the sway of nefarious purposes.

PoS has definite improvements in the amount of energy required, but apparently needs central checkpointing.

other methods offering hash for external purposes (folding etc) can serve multiple purposes and seem very attractive, seemingly a more efficient way of managing the network.

assuming your network is both secure and efficient then you obviously need market adoption.

there seems to be a recent spate of big ICO's with "real business" getting involved << that is your correct target audience for adopting a "better way" of hashing.

if one of the current systems of more efficient hashing were to adopt some from of smart contract abilities or turing complete etc, then those businesses who are piggy backing off existing coins would have a seemingly more appealingly efficient option.

@pineapples

Informative and intelligent response and you are right but would the hashing still have taken off like it did had the reward not been received and traded possibly for FIAT later ?

..i think not.

You ARE right but that type of response is side stepping the whole picture.
And simply bringing to the forefront the parts you want highlighted.

That is all Crypto ever does.. make damn sure their best foot is forward at all times.

I have raised infinite monumental points that ALWAYS go ignored.
No one will touch them with a 10 foot pole.. they will cause a diversion ASAP.

Like guys, come on .. this shit is fucked the fuck up bad and getting worse.
And i was banned for suggesting the scene had died off in popularity after 2013's big rise
over on Poloniex's Troll-Box by a mod who did not even know who BitJohn was.
He proclaimed every single aspect of crypto was on the rise and his exchange was reaching record highs in all aspects and i was 100% wrong and was just Trolling posting FUD then banned me..

He is full of shit., i know i was here LOL
Back in Polo's old days the chat box roared like a room with a 1,000 people in it.
I distinctly recall seeing the fucking thing scroll by so fucking god damn fast that
when i typed something in it was usually missed even by the guys i knew i was talking to.
It was pure fucking anarachy with a massive flood of new users all screaming at once.

NOW ..or i should say a year back when i was last active on Poloniex it was dead.
You could go all day with barley getting any chat activity.
So how the flying fuck does that dipshit retard mod have the fucking gall to say such blatantly stupid ass bullshit to me ?

Simple.. he's grooming his victims (as they always do) ..spinning BS for the guys watching on the Troll-Box.

You all really do spin bullshit for bucks.
Problem is.. it's not working.
As i predicted long ago the result is a downward spiral.
And go ahead chant at me how you made 50 cents profit off the shitcoin IPO that launched an hour ago.
Sorry you switched terms.. i have to say ICO now  ::)
Yeah ?
Look at any coin price from 2013 then look now.. what does that tell you ?

Oh Spoetnik.. no problem !
We can just make a new coin every day until we have 7,000 ANN topics then 8,000 then 10,000

PROBLEM SOLVED ..everyone get yur ROI'z shit is golden bruh !!111

And that -IS- what will happen too.
And you will be here with yet another new account defending it every step of the way until the very last fraction of a cent profit can be squeezed from what ever scammy facade is paraded around "Pumped"

Say what you want here guys but the public is capable of seeing what i see.
They see there is almost 1 million mother fucking accounts created on this forum yet when i looked at the stats page it shows 300 or 400 users logged in per day.

They will see all those points i bring up regularly you guys bend over backwards to ignore.

It's about adoption profiteers.. NOT GREED.
Why would the public adopt your shitcoin if they know damn well a crowd of worthless little investards are clutching their shitcoin bags hovering over the dump button ?

You are investors ?
NO you are not.. and these ICO's are not listed on Kickstarter or Fiver or Cryptostocks.com either.
Big difference between a supporter and a scam participant.
You can not call yourself an investor in a scene with no investor based laws like the NY Stock Exchange has.
Nor can you say you are an investor in a currency if it's not even used as one in the first place.

You also can't feed me your crypto-rebel teen angst millennial Free Market rabble
while trying to say running a lawless ICO is not centralized.. the antithesis of what you just finished chanting.
..decentralization
What the fuck is so decentralized about a guy sitting in his basement and mining all the coins then sending them to Poloniex so they can sell them after you show your picture ID and give it to the govt ?
Listed on Github which is also compliant with US law and snooping etc.

This has warped and morphed into a fucking ridiculous silly little Altcoin charade.
You all spout off moronic hypocrisy and then when caught simply hide and chant BUY DEM ICO FER TEH ROI"Z !!!
LOng Live teh GREEDZ !!!!

Guess who has something to say about that ?
I think Revenue Canada and the IRS among others might have a few choice words for you and your little greed rantology.

You all really do need to cut the fucking crap and get your shit together and fast.
Your opportunity is slipping by at the speed of light.
The more you build up a horrendous sickening little shithole of a scene ripe with vulgar greedy little human garbage the more the public will be turned off and disgusted by all this bullshit.
No matter how bad you chant your ROSE smells so good (planted in a sea of crypto-dregs shit)

I hope MS or FB or Google ape this shit hard and leave you all reeling in the aftermath.
It will teach you a lesson once and for all.
The way this works is you could show up here tomorrow and see a new proper coin came out that is sweeping the world and everyone is dumping their Monero or ETH as fast as they can to go "all in"
And you'd have no way to stop the loss.. i have sen it happen.

And guess what ?
Since the scene is greedy the first guys in line will be the exchanges who all of a sudden inexplicably have "Network Issues" and the insiders like Martha Stewart who did time for insider trading will be dumping.
And you can't cry foul because you were the ones defending it all in the first place  :D

What then ? What next ? Chant Free Market ? in between chanting CALL THE COPS ?

Somebody needs to remind you all how god damn fucking stupid you all are.
Seriously pull your dick holsters our of your ass and get your shit together or YOU WILL suffer the consequences.

Karl Marx and Stalin are proud of you. 54 million dead of famine in China (ditto in Ukraine) were proud of you. Bravo.


Honey to flies.


So what is new? Haven't you heard of the South Seas Bubble or snakeoil salesmen from the time before your great-grandparents were born.


Because there are some aspects of Steem, which when done correctly are going to be the Bitcoin killer and bring crypto to the masses. However, Steem is flawed technologically, conceptually, and the distribution is a circle jerk.


Let's outlaw free markets. Who shall we kill/jail first for violating this rule?



The natural law doesn't exist. People don't reap what they sow. Protect people from their own ignorance, so they become more ignorant.

Socialist pigs.


Stock markets where we are all raped by Goldman Sachs. Because they underwrite the IPOs, they decide who gets prosecuted and who gets bailed out, etc...


How about we make technology that renders those national jurisdiction laws impotent.


Why do you fucking care what others do with their own money?

Socialist pig. How about you keep your moralizing shit-covered brown nose out of others' private financial asshole.

Very well stated. Yes this happening. And I have observed that recent ICOs did not do well such as Ark.io (https://tec.ark.io/) and komodoplatform.com. If I get healthy enough to complete my project, I expect we will see a big shift away from scams, copycoins, and hyped technobabble.

The Ark ICO only got 212 BTC. And the Komodo ICO claims 2639 BTC, but I believe perhaps they started it with 2000 - 2500 BTC from themselves, and only raised a few 100 BTC.

i had another thought that the blockchain is a concept more than anything else.

the pure crypto currency blockchain has it's monumental peak in bitcoin, it doesnt do anything particularly useful other than store the historical ledger of BTC.
sure people are tacking things on, but those things are not important to BTC

the concept of the blockchain can obviously be extended to other uses,
a de-centralised, tamper proof historical record is very useful and that is the carrot that BTC offers, a mere proof of concept that the chain can be kept alive, and be kept safe etc.

@Shelby

You are a colossal load of bullshit.

I have never mentioned outlawing anything in my life yet you keep putting words in my mouth basically.
Trying as many of you do to set me up for an argument based on points i was never making.

All of your shit is retarded.

I do not support Stalin or his murder of his own people.
That is retarded.

I also have to laugh when you spam this forum with Steem links while trying to push crazy political conspiracies on the forum here while posting "Circle jerk" Steem links in order to back up your point.. when a Wikipedia link would have sufficed.

There is no free market smart ass.
That may have been a plausible concept long ago but those days are gone..

- Paypal will seize your money and block your account.
- Ripple was fined by Fincen.
- The SEC put out an Investor fraud warning about Crypto Currencies.
- Coinbase ratted out users to the US govt as well as Cryptsy.
- Users in Florida were busted for selling BTC in a parking lot via LocalBitcoins.
- You will get heavy jail time in Canada for not claiming your crypto-earnings with Revenue Canada.

..uhh where is this "Free Market" again ?

And the coin you said you would make countless times would be what now ?
It would still no matter how bad you want to justify it still be what ever coin number we are currently on +1

..the oh but mine is legit routine  :D

You also have bent over backwards railing against ICO's.
Only to have carefully worded every one of your comments to leave the door open to launch your very own  :D

This guy is fucked in the head..
He thinks Bitcoin was created by a shadowy NWO type US govt satellite group of sorts to further the NWO agenda or some wacky ass shit.

He also has to use that noob account because he claims staff here banned him for "posting Ethereum FUD"

He also said he was leaving in a huff some months back starting a grandiose "I'm Leaving" topic fueled with drama galore where he went on tour saying his goodbye's to everybody.
Only to create multiple accounts and sneak back in here ignoring his farewell bullshit.
Which.. illustrates the guy is a fucking wackjob.  :D
..that is not worth my time trying to debate with. (he can go double up on his med's and maybe then)

If you dumb fucking scammy cunts want to chant free market then i congratulate the DAO hacker and say to Mark from Gox..
Good job and do it again.
After all there is no law saying you can not run an exchange then close it stealing all the money.
Paul from Cryptsy ? hey no problem congrats on your windfall bud.. start a new one in China and do it again  :D

Sorry idiots you don't get to just pretend all the sleazy bullshit does not exist and then defend the ohhhhh so fucking legit 6,000 projects dripping and oozing with Leet innovationz.

You don't get to sit there like morons and pretend there is no regulations already enforced.
Free market ?
How many different exchanges collect your ID and why do they do it ?

Yes investards you are THAT stupid.

Stupid enough to launch a currency that requires buying some other crypto currency in order to buy the new currency to get it adopted.
The type of dumb fuck intelligence that would have one guy say Bitcoin will be replaced by Ethereum.. but first..
BUY SOME BITCOIN.. so you can go BUY some Ethereum.. hahhahahah KIDIOTS ROFL  :D

And i am the only one who ever brought that up because i am smarter than all of you combined.
I am doing you poor sad ass self destructive little morons a favor by tipping you off on how bloody stupid you are being.
You should say thank you Spoetnik.. we are forever in debt for your precious advice.

Open a fucking window and Spray on some axe body spray ..the teen spirit in here is getting rank.
Go fund your self snot nose brat profiteers.. and GO REDSKINS !
Or.. Never mind (ignore the warnings at your own peril)

Shit SHIT son... IN0VATIONS .. SICK SON !!111 ........git yur ROI on bro !!!1111ONE

Four years of watching altcoins come and go tells me we are not moving in the right direction. The scams and hoaxes have only gotten more complex and organized. You cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys so supporting a project is still a roll of the dice.

I wish you a speedy recovery iamnotback. Crypto will die without you.

Dude you are killing yourself for years to prove a point while there is no point to prove in the first place.
Since when innovation needs a currency to sell if it's really an innovation?
This Games Of Coins that we have playing around here are limited to these forums only and has no reflection into the outside world(real world).
We don't need A coin B coin C coin D coin E coin F coin G coin etc, but only bitcoin plus a few altcoins which could be considered as bitcoin's expansion, others are just kids playing with digital and virtual world behind their $250 desktops. lewl