Bitcoin Forum

....when the EU freezes all Slovenian bank accounts according to the terms of a new bailout and the only way to withdraw your funds will be through Bitcoin.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/09/slovenia-eurozone-bailout-rumours (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/09/slovenia-eurozone-bailout-rumours)

Discuss.

Note: I'm not implying anything against the integrity of Bitstamp, rather the integrity of the Slovenian banking system after a bailout.

Edit: Changed the price in title from $1000 to $10,000. $1000 seemed like a crazy price back in April. Not in December though  ;D

Their Prime Minister really is ugly....

$145 (and falling) to $1k in 2 days?  This will be exciting to watch.  Are you long bitcoin?

Not really.. I would fuck her probably, if she were younger.

You're not thinking about the consequences of an extended bank holiday. Would you rather keep your $145 in Bitstamp with the hope of getting it returned in a few months or trade it for 0.1 BTC and be finished with it?

Not. She's just dressed up as a Russian commissar.

Better picture

http://www.balkaninside.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Alenka-Bratusek-Slovenian-PM1.jpg

I think we'd all tap that ass.

You might be in for a ride.

George Soros urges Angela Merkel to consider quitting EURO!!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/09/george-soros-tells-germany-quit-euro (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/09/george-soros-tells-germany-quit-euro)

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Cyprus forced to find extra €6bn for bailout, leaked analysis shows
Less than a month after deal was agreed the bailout bill has risen to €23bn – larger than the size of the Cypriot economy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/11/cyprus-bailout-leaked-debt-analysis-bill (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/11/cyprus-bailout-leaked-debt-analysis-bill)
_

Thursday Papers: Big banks 'more dangerous than ever', Lagarde warns
Europe needs to recapitalise, restructure or shut down its banks as part of a vital clean-up of the industry, says the IMF’s managing director.

http://citywire.co.uk/money/thursday-papers-big-banks-more-dangerous-than-ever-lagarde-warns/a672502 (http://citywire.co.uk/money/thursday-papers-big-banks-more-dangerous-than-ever-lagarde-warns/a672502)

Ireland, You May Very Well Be Bust & I Make No Apologies For What I'm About To Show You
http://boombustblog.com/blog/item/9053-ireland-you-may-very-well-be-bust-i-make-no-apologies-for-what-im-about-to-show-you (http://boombustblog.com/blog/item/9053-ireland-you-may-very-well-be-bust-i-make-no-apologies-for-what-im-about-to-show-you)

Nope.

If the upcoming Slovenian bank holiday is anything like the Cypriot bank holiday then the smart money with the largest bank accounts will withdraw cash from the banks even during the holiday.  The 'mom & pop' account holders will be cleaned out and I'm not sure they know about bitcoin.  Slovenia's banking system has been circling the drain for quite a while now so they don't have much time.

Her shoes are horrible. She needs a new stylist.

AFAIK for payments BitStamp uses an account at the Slovenian branch of UniCredit, which is a big (troubled) Italian bank anyway.
Not sure if and how they would ever be affected by a bailout scenario.

(OT)
Most Eastern European women are hot and well educated. It's in their culture to make themselves desirable so they can find a wealthy man to marry.
And there is shortage of males over there, so law of demand and offer applies.

You might notice that the exact opposite happens in US ;)

I would hesitate to trade on Bitstamp when their primary bank account is in Slovenia. I guess they will have no way of sending/recieving FIAT if the accounts will be frozen...

They posted on their blog that they switched their bank to the Unicredit UK. So I think they solved it quite well.

Btw. they are currently down.

Fixed the title for you  ::)

Back on topic: I don't think they can adopt another Cyprian solution -not that soon. Can they? The panic would be complete, no really one would leave money on their bank accounts anymore. So, I think they'll be forced to find a completely different method, for now at least. So deposits should be safe.

And even if they did block bank withdrawals -wuld you really buy coins at 1000+ to sell them on Gox at 200 at best, thus taking a 80% hit... to evade a 10% tax?
If yes, I have some very interesting investments to sell you!  ;D

Of course I'm only playing devil's advocate here with my suggestions but if Bitstamp had one million dollars on deposit and Slovenia was forced into Cypriot style solution then the tax could be as high as 90%

This is all irrelevant if they've moved accounts to the UK but when I sent money to them a couple of weeks ago it went to Slovenia. 

You're lying yourself big time if you think that Bitcoin is in stage where people invest in it as some kind of safety, lol.

It's still pure, pure speculation.

145$? Lol! 86$ on btce now. Was 55$. Will hit 20$ tomorrow.

Wrong, not only it stays the same bank as before in Slovenia, but there is not such a thing as Unicredit UK. They only switched the company to a UK one.

https://www.bitstamp.net/article/new-banking-details/

Dear Bitstamp clients,

We would like to inform you that Bitstamp now has new bank details.

We ask that you send all further deposits to following bank account:

Account owner:   
Bitstamp LIMITED
Address:   5 Jupiter House, Calleva Park, Aldermaston
City:   Reading, Berkshire RG7 8NN
Country:   United Kingdom

Bank name:   
Unicredit banka Slovenija d.d.
Address:   Smartinska 140
City:   1000 Ljubljana
Country:   Slovenia
IBAN:   SI56290000170073837
BIC (SWIFT):   BACXSI22

Yes you are right, my apologies.

Anyway it seems like they are moving business to the UK (at least formally) so I assume the next step will be to open bank account there.

The Northern Rock disaster of 2007 showed the UK government is willing to print whatever money is necessary to keeps the banks open for business.

The question of what the pounds in the account will be able to buy is a different issue.

I'm not suggesting it's a safe haven but I do think people would rather take bitcoins at a much inflated price instead of shares in Unicredit Slovenia which can't be traded for X number of years.

Slovenia Downgraded to Junk Status

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130430/us-moody-s-slovenia/?utm_hp_ref=business&ir=business (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130430/us-moody-s-slovenia/?utm_hp_ref=business&ir=business)


BlackRock Asks Slovenia Bad-Bank Details Before Debt Sale

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-30/blackrock-asks-slovenia-bad-bank-details-before-debt-sale.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-30/blackrock-asks-slovenia-bad-bank-details-before-debt-sale.html)




Guess we'll be seeing soon enough if Cyprus was a one off or the new template.

interesting.

Dreht euch nicht um
denn der Bankrott geht um.
Wer sich umdreht oder lacht
kriegt den Buckel voll gemacht

Who's next?

Whyyyyyy would you bump this?  ???

Hello sir wheres your 1000$+ ?

Update: Bitcoin to hit $10,000 on Bitstamp this weekend  :P


Unless their Prime Minister can magic 4.6 billion euros from somewhere she'll be looking for help from the troika (EU, ECB and the IMF). That's possibly very bad news for customers with dollars on deposit with Bitstamp because the troika has said that any further bailouts will have an element of investor pain attached i.e. bank deposit confiscation.

I don't care. My country also have troubled banks that cost several billions.

My money is safer in Slovenia than it's in my own country.  ;D

Maybe I'll move to Slovenia. They seem to be more reasonable even though they have a huge deficit.

I am worried about this. Does this affect Bitstamp? Because they use UniCredit bank, i.e. not a state-owned bank.

why does it matter if you buy btc and transfer out?

Whether it affects UniCredit or not is a political decision. UniCredit might not need recapitalisation money from the government but for political reasons it could be decided that customers at all banks should suffer losses. Or more likely there could be temporary capital controls at unaffected banks to stop money leaving the country.

Bitstamp is a great exchange but I have feeling that the economic and political situation will consume them.

I'm not fully in BTC yet. Have quite a large amount of fiat on Bitstamp. Hopefully can find a good opportunity to get all in BTC by Friday, if not, I might just go all in anyway.

The great and the good of Slovenian politics have converged tonight to decide who's going to pay for the bailout.


How exciting!

Sometimes it pays to read speculation forum. My fiat on bitstamp has magically transformed itself into BTC.

Banks with problems in Slovenia are mostly banks, which are in the hands of state... Our country is still in a hands of old politcs and they (their figures) are/were giving big credits to their rich and greedy friends without insurance. Now they can not return them.
Unicredit Slovenia is a branch of Italian Unicredit Group... As I know this bank is not on a list...  ;)

Is the btc transferred to your own address? If it were me, I would worry that if they freeze their bank accounts, the might get a clue and freeze their hot and cold wallets (or just turn off transfers out).

Better to have it out since you can transfer it in later than not.

I agree, but when you actively trade, you have no choice. You have to accept this possibility

sure right you are, but another possibility is to move a part of your btc to another trade market? no?

Definitely true, but if they are really worried about something this weekend, it might be prudent to take a break.

:-)

Edit: sickpig makes a good point.

I've gone all BTC and transferred out for this reason. Probably unnecessary, but I'd rather play it safe.

Any updates here? Once again CNBC is magically ignoring it, if this wont affect BTC price, then it definately will affect (for the worse) my XIV. Want to get out of there before the shit accidentally hits the fan.

I did the same, better to be on the safe side.

Bummer I transferred 10k to BS an hour before reading this.  Last time I got same day processing, hope I can get it out quickly enough.

Latest news:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/12/markets--fed-tapering-slovenia-bank-clean-up-business-live


In its new report, just released, Slovenia's central bank gives some details of the €4.758bn cost of cleaning up the banking sector of its bad debts.

The country's biggest three banks need €3.12bn, which will be paid through government funds and bonds.

Another five banks need a total of €1.6bn - and have been given until June 2014 to raise the funds on the private markets.

Slovenia's central bank also said that the operation will take the country's national debt to 75.6% of GDP.

Jörg Asmussen, a member of the executive board of the ECB, stated that if required a troubled bank needs to shut down over a weekend. Slovenian banking stress test incoming  ::)

http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2013/12/11/asmussen-bank-muss-ueber-wochenende-abgewickelt-werden-koennen/

Slovenia's smaller lenders are starting to announce how much money they'll need to raise, under the recapitalisation plan being announced this morning.

Unicredit Slovenia needs an additional €14m.

That's not that bad :P Austrian Hypo Alpe-Adria has ~€25bn of NPLs..

Just ic case, I've also taken all my $ and coins out

Seeing as I don't want to hold any more bitcoin while we are still in a downtrend, and I don't want to wait for the SEPA withdrawal process on Bitstamp, I've decided to sell some BTC through localbitcoins - and after every sale, immediately buy the same amount of BTC back at stamp with the dollars I have there. Hopefully I'll be able to get a decent amount of fiat out that way.

Seriously, this is getting real old. If the overall level of economic knowledge of your average BTC investor is really that superficial, I'm not too impressed...

I'm going to quote myself, because I've written the following summary over and over again in the past month(s), and it still applies:




Especially point 2) is something that is completely ignored, every single time this discussion comes up. Think what you want about how the EU handled Cyprus (disclosure: I think they did the right thing, all things considered), but the bail-in did *not* affect all Cypriot banks. So very little indicates that Unicredit Slovenia would be affected by a (far from certain) bail-in in Slovenia.

Correct. And: Only holders at Laiki Bank and Bank of Cyprus were affected, the two banks that caused the entire crisis.

Well, yes. In the grand scheme of things I'm a beginner, especially when it comes to things like bailouts/ins etc.. which leads to uncertainty when I have difficulty knowing if my interpretation of the information is correct. When it came out that Unicredit would only need 14 million, I felt better. But even in the light of that, I didn't trust myself enough to draw any final conclusions.

As a newbie I'm grateful for people like you though.. and you should rightfully not be impressed by me. Not at all.

Do you think Bitstamp has an individual account for each customer? No. They have one account which probably has millions of dollars.

See, now I feel uncertain again. :P It's very hard for someone like me to come to any hard conclusions... leading to "better safe than sorry" = cashing out.

I agree the risk is negligible, but if it's something that you can easily avoid, I don't know why anyone would take the risk.

Yeah I agree the risk is small, but it's still a risk you can avoid. There's a thread on the forum here, someone had around 700k euros taken from their account in Cyprus. Their lawyer, accountant etc had advised them that their money was safe.

Apologies for sounding grumpy. :/


To summarize: it's never wrong to be safe (convert to btc, take them out), but realistically, there's a low chance that Unicredit account(s) will be hit by anything in the near future.

Panic over then. The government decided that general tax payers should foot the 4 billion euro bill rather than specific bank depositors. I'm aware that penalising Unicredit depositors would make little economic or moral sense, but equally it makes no sense for general tax payers to foot the bill either. I guess the government sensed general tax payers would take it up the ass without too much complaining.

Sending 4 billion euro into a banking black hole equates to 2000 euro per person or 10% of GDP. Can anyone from Slovenia comment on the mood of the people after the announcement. Are they relieved that their deposits are safe or are they fuming about the 4 billion euro bill?

Finally, as a loyal Bitstamp customer I'd like to thank all Slovenian tax payers for keeping my favourite exchange open for business  :-*

People are not happy, but as usually on the end they (we) will pay, because they are blind. Long story short  :)
And you really shouldn't care for a Unicredit Slovenia... €14mil is nothing for them, beside they are not in a hands of state.

Unnecessary FUD?

lol

Didn't read the topic but I'm waiting for the +$10000 in the next 18 days :D

And why didnt Bitstamp create an  foreign bank account, for example in the UK... it should not be a problem when they already have ltd. (british type of company). Or is there any law preventing them from this?

I would not count on bank bail in's for price increase for two reasons.

1. People would prefer to not lose they money and bitcoin is last safe place to put your money there because of uncertainty and volatility.
2. Assuming that people would put their money in bitcoin anyway, who will sustain the price after banks will take their money? Price will crash hard making no.1 even more true.

Before we hope for people to come to bitcoin we would have to show them first that we are mature enough and have stable price with stable growth instead of bunch of amateurs whose primary target is to grab as many bitcoins from our community as they can.

Do you really think they did not try ?
Coinfloor was supposed to open in UK but has yet to do so. And they were not going to have a UK bank account ...
There is another exchange that opened recently in the UK (I forget the name) but they have to use a 3rd party processor to fund accounts.

BitStamp has an address in the UK - I highly doubt you would find any staff there, and they are not in any way regulated by the UK financial authorities

Hope this helps  ;)

but is "IBAN:SI56290000170073837" or "IBAN:SL56290000170073837"  ?

Only keep in the bank what you can afford to lose  ;D

You can thank me here: 1DvBT3oAwD3scT5dhUti7gXmC9mq6M8nnv