Bitcoin Forum

*MOD just kicked us off the front page....looks like they did not like where this was going
[Note see EDIT 1]

I do not like the way Gox make their excuses which is basically


Gox know full well that adding 20K or whatever accounts a day is going to cause an issue, without scaling, they know and in-fact claim of their front page they hand 80% of BTC transaction.

Gox is so worried about market share rather than slow things down and do it right they keep holding out everything is ok and thus all suffer.

Gox's of this world cannot burn it both ends....and must realize their duty of care and what is or is not reasonably foreseeable.


https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130411.html (https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130411.html)

is more or less an admission of guilt while being smug..."ho ho" were so great we screwed over our own system, which we made and knew was under stress...

Look forwards to your views.

I for one thing that we collectively can and must send a clear message that BTC is not to be FU__D with.


[EDIT 1]

Gox now has come out with it all a bit to late and with a pitiful "no" trading fee's for 48 hours compensation. That's small compensation to people who have missed out on trading already


and this is not for a market to cool down but because their trading engine is broken

[EDIT 2] Lets get this together then, and engage some US council, any recommendations? also we need an escrow for donations and an address who's a trusted escrow around here? I know anon136 does some escrow

All the big bitcoin accounts should start voting with their coins and spread them to other exchanges. There is no need for Mt.Gox client to feel happy like a beaten wife every time. I mean you would not do this if it was your fiat money using some tools like E trade or something else that would be responsible for crashing down the whole market...

DDoS attack I would "understand" the excuse.

You want to waste your bitcoin on a class action lawsuit? Even if you win, I doubt you get much more than a token 0.01 BTC.

I LULZ.

I've pulled every single coin from gox. That statement is a child's response to a man's problem. They need to hire some proper programmers, expert financial traders, and get a management team. It's pretty fucking stupid to have the entire market crash when gox goes down. They've been dealing with +10 minute lag (the lag yesterday was over an hour) for so long, i refuse to believe it's not on purpose.

+1

A class action is a cheap way more many people to bring home to [large] corporations there will be consequences to your profits, even though the people in the class action may on see much, its acts a a deterant against such behavior by other exchanges.

It is a market mechanism of discipline.

Gox, has arbitraged their lack of spending and planning for your losses, into their profits

and 1BTC from a thousands of people is a powerful force.....maybe just the good news BTC needs....BTC defending BTC from shoddy practice

First time Bitcoin crash due to the stolen of one MT account.The BTC price backs to 0.01$ and dejected in the next TWO years.
Today, price backs to 74$( btc -e ), what shall we say? It thanks to MT? or the bubble broked??
I think it's the time we drop MT and get away from him.

no BTC, collectively needs strike out at belligerents. like Gox' to make others think long and hard about thier opperations, and its not just Gox, Vircurex, after doing a capital raise, just toppled over for days locking every ones funds up.

It's one thing to have a "crash" it's another to have be unable to trade during it or at either end.

MTGOX (Magic The Gathering Online Exchange) has gotten waaaaay too big for its britches.

All over the forum/irc people complain about lags now mtgox is upgrading their database and you wanna sue them?  ;D

+1.

Can I ask a stupid question? (I guess I will): How fast can all the big major bitcoin whales get together, put up a strategy to create and open a BRAND NEW exchange with a structure to scale all the way up to NASDAQ-like backbones if needed?

Put your money where your mouth is pay a team of MIT-skilled programmers that are so smart they are into nuclear fusion as a hobby THEN you will see things to move better with more confidence.

EVEN If you are only in for the quick bucks, think about it: who is more at risk to lose 50% of its bitcoins fortunes with amateurs?

This is a different issue the issue at hand is when an exchange holds themselves out as being Mr. 80% and is running on two mac mini's

Have a nice time in Japan, take lots of photos as there's no way in hell you're filing a class action. Japanese law doesn't even have them!

Firstly that a question of jurisdiction and there are many ways to bring an action to send a message, eg, a test case, by funding an individual litigant.

The Action in whatever for will be costly to defend and damaging to the reputation of the organization and a show of strength for BTC/CC but most importantly as message to the wider corporate world screw with BTC treat it without professionalism, you will be held accountable

Don't be so childish. Only Americans sue each other over nothing.

Yes, Mt. Gox is a shit exchange. We have known this for years, yet people still place millions of dollars into it. Why? I have no idea.

Smaller exchanges offer faster trading, better interface, higher security, better site uptime and lower fees, yet MtGox continues to hold the lion's share of the trade.

If you lost big becuase you had lots of funds tied up in gox's shitty servers, then it's your fault for using them.

You can't sue gox for the actions of its users, causing a crash because the site started to go laggy. It's been laggy for years, there's no need to sell all your coins based on lag.

No, the real culprits of this crash are the morons who bought at $250, even though the near-vertical graphs and any basic analysis of them showed all the warning signs of a classic bubble, they got $$ signs in the eyes and ignored the risk.

Well, this is what you get.

Come here so i can stone you to death  ;D
What has Gox done 'wrong'? Did they sign something saying they would have no lag? Did you?

Best way to kill a company is to stop using it - you can't make others do the same but they can realize for themselves...

They accepted a shitload of new users(which would cause more load on their infrastructure) without upgrading their infrastructure

If gox would have been smart, they didn't accept so many new ppl 'til they were sure the servers can cope that load!

Its like selling an unlimited amount of tickets for a flight (because of greed) and the heavy overloaded plane crashes!

I agree with you (about the infrastructure), but it's like suing a bar because they have no seats and are too crowded?

No you sue them for holding out they are a trading organization, you go into trade, they don't upgrade, and then stop you trading when you need to, because they are signing up new customers while knowing their system can't handle it

There are regulations upon number of guests in bars/clubs! Those regulations are made in case a fire breaks out! We all seen the pictures from fires in overcrowded clubs, emergency doors locked or behind curtains and stuff, ppl trampled to death as the masses panic.

no it's a bar that says we are the safest best venue come, spend your money here , but their venue is a firetrap, and you get burnt alive.

exactly...hive mind!

Indeed, because if a fire breaks out in a bar a lot of people could die.

If a Bitcoin exchange lags out all that happens is a bunch of morons lose their money.

The free market can also seek legal redress as a form of market dicipline

Ten98 (10-98)

So if a bar has a capacity to hold only 100 people and instead 500 people show up on April 10, 2013  because it was known a week ago that a famous rock star would be at the bar on that day. The bar, knowing that this rock star would draw a huge crowd (in excess of 500 people), failed to hire additional bartenders. As a result there's only 1 bartender working on April 10,2013 and he couldn't handle the capacity and ended up misplacing/losing the funds of the 500 extra people that the bar didn't have the capacity to handle, but let them in anyway; do those 500 people have a right to sue regarding the loss of their funds?  

I didn't lose anything and I don't plan on selling anytime, regardless of what happens. But MTGOX is incompetent and something needs to be done.  

In regards to a class action suit, I believe that you can commence one in the US since they now operate in the US as well as Japan.  There will undoubtedly be attorneys that would do it pro-bono for the simple fact that this is a Bitcoin issue and there are attorneys that would want to be pioneers here.

Much worser than the loss of money is the loss of confidence this has caused. Average John Doe will stay away from BTC, LTC or other virtual currencies for a LOOOOOONG time and trust in his FIAT money. No need for shops to offer easy and fast checkouts using BTC and so on...its up to you to think about it, but ask yourself why are you involved in BTC?

Nothing more to say about this  ::)

Good!


A free market is a well-regulated market?

We just need a system where all trades go through one exchange so then..... ??? ::)

You guys need to stop bitching about MTGox. If you don't like them, use someone else. I'd like you try to see if you can run your own exchange any better. I have no doubt things could be better, but I honestly believe they are making a huge difference in Bitcoin adoption and are doing the best they can.

And you're not serious about a class action law suit, are you? Suing an exchange over a speculative digital currency, because you used it incorrectly?

I have no doubt many of you have lost money in this fiasco over the past 24 hours. But blaming the biggest exchange while it's being continually attacked and people are trying to manipulative the markets, is just plain silly.

This is a different point regulation is different to tortuous conduct or breach of contract or misrepresentation.

IMHO there is no problem with several exchanges as long as they meet several technical standards! Like security, reliability, easy to use for example. How to develope these standards and audit them? This is a really huge community, there must be some ppl which are able to do this job! Its up to the comunity if we want to make the BTC a success.  

Your on the ball! sounds like the right direction

Please clarify how you think they are "making a huge difference in bitcoin adoption".

I suggested precisely this earlier today, not that anyone cared then

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172984.msg1800224#msg1800224 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172984.msg1800224#msg1800224)

You can't have it both ways.  Bitcoin is designed to be a self-regulating currency.  I understand that people who have a large exposure to BTC (I don't) would be very upset.  This exchange was not prepared for the large increases in volume.  Blame it on media hype or Cyprus or whatever.  The fact is that these exchanges provide a valuable service to trade BTC.  If you don't like it, start your own.  A lawsuit against an exchange might set a precedent for all BTC businesses.  Once you get lawyers involved in BTC, it will die shortly.

Didn't noticed this yet but business as usual...

THE SHIT HAS TO HIT THE FAN REAL HARD BEFORE CHANGES HAPPEN

this was the 2nd time, the first gox incident didn't affect as much common ppl as this one now. Fingers crossed BTC will get a 3rd chance now by the time!

Oh, and btw, there are better places for trading currencies against each other. It's called FOREX and most brokers offer accounts with 200$ or 300$ deposit as minimum :P

Umm... the bar wouldn't let the people in. They have a limit by ordinance how many people can be inside. Those people would be waiting outside until some left from already being there. The line would go for who knows how far. Does anyone live in Vegas? Did anyone go to the stupid pawn stars shop before it had a tv show? Now, only so many people can be inside at one time. So, a line wraps around the building...

If mtgox can't handle the new people don't let them use the trading system until it is first upgraded...

Simple question: If they weren't prepared enough, why did they let the ppl in? was the profit they were generating not enough? They placed greediness over risk management? And if gox disappears after a class action, its still a sign for the other exchanges

I don't really see your point here.
Why do you want to sue them?


Fucktard americans are so stupid.


Even if they want to close the trades for 1 month, if they put the website down because :
- they are experiencing problems
- they want just to
- or whatsoever reason

What do you want to reproach them?


They do not need to be up every single second, and to offer a good service. They offer what they want to offer, and if you're not happy with that just gtfo.


Thank you

Obviously, they should have done something sooner.  There were signs of overload for days.  They would have had to halt trading at some point.  I won't speculate on their reasons for not addressing the issues sooner.  My point is that any legal retribution against them opens the floodgates.  The legal system involves the government court system.  That would be bad for the BTC community.  What would be good is if the community could help prevent this type of problem from happening in the future.  I think the services rating system linked in this thread is a good idea.

take your car for service

car repair shop closes down for a month

you just going to do nothing?

What do you propose?
Class action against them?
Take a gun and kill them all?

Huh.

If they were closed for 12 hours i wouldn't care.
I would if i left my wallet in the car, but that's my own fault.

Also, if you can't trade, they can't make fees, so you're not 'paying', dig?

MtGox has been Goxxing (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goxxed) their customers since 2011 when they bought out Magic The Gathering Online Xchange from the American who ran it as a hobby and was paranoid of getting sued over held scammer coins and unknown US regulation. If you continue to use them you can expect to be Goxxed again and again. Suing Japanese companies = impossible so good luck with that. You can sue Coinlab when they start up partnership and inevitable Goxxing occurs.

whatever it takes to get my car back

Mark Karples is a good man, but he is not a good business man. He basically got this situation thrown into his lap, and as you say, this could've been handled differently - perhaps denying new accounts until their current systems got upgraded. Then users would seek out other exchanges, and Gox would lose market share, but as it is now, they wanted everything, and may end up with a lot less than everything - it seems like many people are very discontent with the current situation. But then, speak with your wallets, and move to another exchange.

A class action will not lead anywhere though.

[/quote]

Mark Karples is a good man, but he is not a good business man. He basically got this situation thrown into his lap, and as you say, this could've been handled differently - perhaps denying new accounts until their current systems got upgraded. Then users would seek out other exchanges, and Gox would lose market share, but as it is now, they wanted everything, and may end up with a lot less than everything - it seems like many people are very discontent with the current situation. But then, speak with your wallets, and move to another exchange.

A class action will not lead anywhere though.
[/quote]


here on the front page of Gox is a core issue they hold out

We're always on. Buy and sell Bitcoin 24/7/365 with the world's most sophisticated trading platform.

Wait, wut?  Did you get a loan on your car to buy bitcoins?

Instead of creating extra stress, hostility and hatred within the community, and attacking existing bitcoin companies, why don't you contribute into making something better yourself ?

As of now, Gox is working hard to upgrade and improve their system. If they're not up to the task in the long run, the market will evolve, and new exchanges will pop up and volume will move there.

It's quite an asshat move to attack MtGox like this. You may have personal opinions in regards to their incompetency or whatnot, but actually suggesting a class-action at this point will do the community no good.

MtGox has done many errors, and will most likely continue to do so, which opens opportunities for other players. At least, they've started to communicate better with the user base, and that is a good sign.

Also, users must understand that from a technical perspective, things are not done over night. It takes time. It is very easy to sit here and point the finger at MtGox and complain for various reasons. It doesn't help much. The situation is what it is, and then we need to move forward.

I'm sure MtGox at this moment in time see that they should've scaled earlier. Now, I guess some people have a good business sense, and see problems before they arise, but some people do not have this sense.

Hassling MtGox with stuff in the legal system at this point will do absolutely no good. And what exactly will you sue them for ? The fact that they did not take adequate action to scale their systems because, they in your opinion should've done so ?

I agree they should've done so, but as MtGox wrote on the recent reddit interview, these things does take time. Perhaps they should've halted new registrations, perhaps they should've looked into things to streamline and optimize their current business, and afaik, they are looking into these things, but it all takes time.

Surely, you're joking about the two mac mini's. I'm ignorant on this sort of thing, assuming Mt Gox is using a conventional server(s).

Somebody please enlighten me as to what type of server(s) they are using. Inquiring half-a-mind wants to know.

so your going to make good for all the people that could not execute orders in the market when they needed too then? while gox has on their front page 24/7 brilliant system???

nice sentiments, but this is people money/BTC we are talking about

Now, take a deep breath, lean back - and read again what you just write. Do it make sense to you ?


In a perfect world they would not advertise it as such. However, when growing up, most people learn the world is not black and white, but comes in shades of grey. There are countless companies that make promises they can't hold. Happens every day. I guess you're the same kind of person that would complain if you couldn't have a burger at 21:58 at your local burger place because the sign said they closed at 22:00.



Sure it is. If you are not satisfied, then withdraw everything you have there and stop giving them business, if you think that is a better solution. Suing them, which is something you won't do anyway - will serve no purpose, and you won't win. In fact, I don't even think you have a case.

Au contrair, this is the facts....you must make an actual criticism.


Yes that's called misleading and deceptive conduct, or breach or contract when you take money Its no where near a shade of grey. You burger analogy males no scene. My use value of a bruger 2 minutes later is usually the same. 2 minutes later in a market, can be a different world.


Sure it is. If you are not satisfied, then withdraw everything you have there and stop giving them business, if you think that is a better solution. Suing them, which is something you won't do anyway - will serve no purpose, and you won't win. In fact, I don't even think you have a case.


That's my point!!!! Many could not withdraw or do anything for a loooong time even if they wanted to. Eg cash out at $150 - $160 nope.jpg click button but nothing doing.