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There are a lot of Indonesian people who are unemployed. However, Free Visa for tourists coming to Indonesia has caused documents abused. The tourists not only visit indonesia but also work. This an irony. Indonesia now is facing complect political issue of sectarian. Oh Indonesia, I hope You can overcome all the problems.

the issue of expertrate and immigrants is one of the major problems countries are facing,we cannot rule it out because poorer countries are in search of better income and wages, so if the economy of a country is better than the other expect such

It seems to me that immigrants are not needed in any country. These people can't do anything for the country in which they are traveling. These people are not working for the good of the Motherland why would they work for the benefit of another country?

Since the Government is run by a "handful" of people, Government is illegal if it disagrees with the will of a majority of the people.

8)

the problem is not in the system of free visa for tourist. the problem is the tourist it self. they should have a program which can take care of all the tourist that is entering your country. that way they can manage and can trace all the foreigners that is entering your country. they should make some reminders and if you say tourist they should not make it longer than a month.

The more immigrants entering the country the more they ruin your life. Migrants who are fleeing their country is not the most educated people. Why do you need such people? They are unable to build their country and will destroy your.

In fact, yes, they take some unskilled work field that Indonesian people also need the job. That's horrible.

Chinese immigrants in Indonesia, really? I wasn't aware of that. I know some Europeans working in Bali with a 30-days tourist visa, so they have to make monthly trips to Hong Kong or Bangkok to get a new visa. The Chinese are probably just overstaying, but I wonder: are they hired by Indonesians looking for cheap labor, or are they hired by legal Chinese immigrants (or do they create businesses)?

Most often, the Chinese do not mix much with the locals. They create Chinese communities.

Yes this is very ironic. Many people who are unemployed due to lack of jobs, but there are many tourists who have tourist visa can work and even they are being paid bigger. But the government is currently investigating and capturing foreign nationals working in Indonesia for deportation. Maybe it would be better if tourists had to use travel agents so that supervision easier. So, can the data on the number of incoming tourists to be the same as those returned to the country so that there is no illegal foreign nationals who work in Indonesia, it would be better in my opinion. And I also hope that this issue be overcome and the government is serious in taking care of this problem.

Thats a problem. Theres a lot of indonesians are unemployed. The government must prioritize all people which unemployed from their country not those immigrants. Why they allow tourist to get a job there if they were just have a tourist visa? They should  be deport once their expired. Tourist visa should be exclusively only for tourist not for job seekers. They should apply for working visa.

I dont think that they are going to hire them if its a higher wage its not production wise.

But it's a lot of news on television and on the internet, Chinese citizens in Indonesia is illegal and in violation of the rules began arrested by the police. I've also read the news about Chinese citizens who have identity card Indonesia but could not speak Indonesian. It's already indicated that he is illegal in Indonesia. Police efforts in handling this case is very good.

The biggest porblem is that investors from china brought workers  from low level to high level. They not only invest in funding but also bring workers.

http://www.republika.co.id/berita/ekonomi/makro/16/10/31/ofwle6382-investor-cina-bawa-pekerja-asing-level-bawah-masuk-ke-indonesia

This is just a wild claim without any logic. The average salary in Indonesia is much lower than the average salary in China. So why should a worker from China opt to work in Indonesia? It may be true that Indonesian factories are facing shortages in certain high-skill categories. So they may be importing labor from China to cover this shortage.

this is true. chinese people often help each other. when they will go to other countries, they make sure that they know where will they go or where will they ask for help. we know that almost all of the countries has its so called " china towns" where almost all of the people there are all chinese. but we could not say that they are legal. theres also a possibility that they might do ilegal things. where just a person and can commit crimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1998_riots_of_Indonesia

Someone is hidding the etnic hate behind unemployement problems.

No, at around last October the government capture illegal foreign workers from China. They work as a laborer in a cement factory but they have a salary of about 15 million IDR in one month, while local workers who work as laborer only had a salary of about 2 million IDR in one month. That difference in the amount of very distant to me and it was very unfair. It would be detrimental to the local workers because jobs will be more narrow and will be a lot of unemployment.

There may be reasons for the difference. Either the Chinese workers are extremely productive, or the local workers are extremely incompetent. That said, it is impossible to survive on a salary of IDR 2 million (USD 150).

These days, the chinese are everywhere. in my country for instance they are engaging in so many illegal activities like galamsey which is illegal mining, fishing at restricted waters and when eventually caught they pay them off. Its as if they are above the law.

The chinese are occupying space all over the world, by any legal and illegal means.

They coming as illegal work are just the top of iceberg probably.

Here they come and open business real quickly, and enter with big money buying stuff. They are also associated with the local organized crime, among other stuff

If Indonesia will not solve the problems right now then they will suffer the consequences later on. Its like what happened to the Philippines, Chinese are just migrants from China a very long time ago but now they are the richest families in the Philippines and controls huge businesses in the country. As of this moment Filipinos have become laborers with small pays for the migrant Chinese and the Philippine Government cannot go against China since politicians are being influenced by Chinese Tycoons. If Indonesia will not solve their problems today tomorrow instead of Chinese working for them the Chinese will control their economy as well as their government.

No, local workers same competence with foreign workers in my opinion. As I've said before labor workers with salary differentials so far I think it is very unfair. Competent or not, if it works as a laborer difference is surely only a few and not that much. Indeed, in Indonesia salaries of workers were only given a salary of between 2 million - 3 million IDR, and it is reality.

The Chinese are currently following the trend of the European during the era of colonization and since they are the emerging world power, nothing is being down to stop them. Look at the Philippines for instance ever since the President broke ties with the USA and trash talked them, The Chinese are rewarding them with some astonishing deals and the USA cant do squat about it, it shows that they are the rising power in the world and will eventually replace the USA.

This sounds really weird. Arent salaries in coastal China well above Indonesia? I dont mean to offend anybody, but why would any "nation" flood another one and be worse off in the end?

This is China in 2014: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/China-_Nominal_GDP_per_capita_(USD).svg/450px-China-_Nominal_GDP_per_capita_(USD).svg.png

And this is Indonesia: http://www.indonesia-investments.com/news/todays-headlines/what-are-the-minimum-wages-in-indonesia-in-2015/item2633?

Of course, I welcome anyone to correct me on this issue. I am not expert.

Your post doesn't make any sense. Why should a factory owner in Indonesia employ Chinese workers paying 10X salary, if they have the same skill-set as the local workers? Doing so will definitely cause huge losses to the shareholders.

I agree with your opinion, it is a matter of politics when the government give privileges to chinese investors. They not only invest but also bring a lot of workers with them.

With all the illegal works in China, other Chinese goes to other countries to make some illegal activities. Like in China, there's a lot of people in their country. China is one of the biggest country with lot of people living. We must know what will happen if China will have more and more people will live on it.

China is a very large country, and there is only a very small population growth (due to the strict one-child policy). The population growth rate in Indonesia is much more than that in China. And Indonesia is very crowded as well (at least the islands such as Java, Madura, and Bali).

This problem is not only in Indonesia but in other countries as well and its a serious problem to every sane government who wants to protect its own citizen because this will continue to create loss of revenue to government, when there issue of massive capital flight which will further lead to loss of development of the real sector. I hope the government in that area can go the way of Uk in which the interest of its citizen is paramount in her heart.

If there are lots of unemployed Indonesians, is it because there are no jobs and if the answer to that question is yes, then how are the "Illegal Workers" from China getting jobs. I believe the Indonesians are maybe just lazy or they don't have the necessary qualifications to get the job the want.

China has long had problems with the overpopulation of the territory. The settlement of Chinese around the world is the strategy of the state. The Chinese government is funding this program. In the past year were born in China, 18 million children.

17.86 million births and 9.77 million deaths. The population increased by 8.09 million. That is an increase of less than one individual per square kilometer. On the other hand, in Indonesia there were more than 6 million births and 1 million deaths, and the population increase was around 5 million. The population increase in Indonesia was more than 2.5 individuals per square kilometer. So Indonesia is the one suffering from over-population.

Pls. more details, how to apply to such program.
There is no proofs in similar activity, the employement is made by private business, or they are illegal.

they are everywhere so where are the news ?

Large scale migration of Chinese workers has occurred in certain African countries such as Angola, but there is no proof to claim that the Chinese government is actively supporting this. The corporations which undertake various infrastructural projects in these nations are owned by the Chinese government. But they are more interested in asserting their political influence rather than exporting ethnic Chinese.

This dude claim about Statal program.
Traveling around the globe is not illegal and giving passports for this is not supporting the emigration and traslocation.
There is no such program and no money or benefits for such people.
 (If someone have the info about contrary - pls, post it)

China seemed once berusa to rule the world in the field. a lot of passable quality goods which, for example, the most widely spread is the smartphone. Most smartphones have used those are made in China. Bicycles even scissors too many made by China. China is in the state began to advance.

There are three main reasons why the Western corporations moved their manufacturing operations to China:

1. Little harassement from the environmental protection agency.
2. Low labor costs
3. No corruption and bureaucratic red tape.

No other country can offer the combination of these three. For example, in India they have very low labor costs. But the bureaucratic red tape and corruption is extreme. Similarly, in Poland and Romania there is not much red tape. But the labor costs are high.

Two corrupt and greedy countries collide together. I don't have doubts why Indonesia does have a lot of unemployed citizens while China is taking an advantage of it. The ties of leaders for both are countries are strong if that is happening there.

Class II Bogor Immigration Office arrested 12 foreign nationals from China who allegedly illegally on a semi-permanent home in the woods in the area of the gold mine and galena located in Perhutani forest Cihideung, Cigudeg, Bogor, yesterday.

http://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasional/20170111183142-20-185685/sebanyak-12-wn-china-diciduk-di-hutan-bogor-sebagian-kabur/

Some immigrants flee , they were not captured yet.

I don't think it's just Indonesia that has this problem with illegal workers from China.

many Indonesian citizens are unemployed while foreigners from china to work with a very low wage in Indonesia

The most feared is a repeat of the tragedy back in 1998 in Indonesia where the slaughter genocide descendants of china or better known tragedy 98

Just remember that the China in 1998 was different from the China in 2017. China is one of the super-powers now. And if you think that they will just sit back and watch if the ethnic Chinese get slaughtered in Indonesia, then you are wrong.

yes i now but you dont know about our country  ;D

It is called a gap in bureaucracy. In this case, the president of Indonesia a little dizzy because it has signed a number of bilateral cooperation in field of construction & mining, where a written agreement that the contractor is entitled to organize their workforce from among experts and workers.

The President doesn't think that Chinese contractors employ all workers from the contractor's original state. And then, there was a large protest of Indonesian workers. Indonesian immigration agencies trying to sweep illegal passports of foreigners. But in vain, because it can be tricked with a tourist visa that can be extended.

It was a blunders of Indonesian government.

For sure, it was a blunder of The Gov. A G to G Contract between Indonesia and China has caused all the problems. A member of representative said Indonesia can't cancel the free Visa Policy for some countries including China.

yes you're right. If you want to talk about the problems that exist in Indonesia, you need to know about Indonesia. You have to stay for some time in Indonesia in order to know Indonesia. Now the problem is not all citizens of China who lives in Indonesia, but many. Chinese citizens who lived in Indonesia as an illegal, or otherwise illegal. Some even have identity cards Indonesia but can not speak Indonesia at all.

I have never been to Indonesia, and therefore I don't know much about that country. But for sure I know that the Indonesian armed forces are not as powerful as their Chinese counterparts. Also, a ban on the Indonesian exports (coal, iron ore.etc) by China can cripple the local economy.

The function of a tourist visa is to take a vacation, not a business, a lot of people who abuse it.

Many other cases occur such as:

- Illegal prostitution.
- Smuggling drugs.
- Engaged in business of mining & agriculture, but not listed as an official worker.
- Blackmail against corrupt government officials from China carried out by a group of Chinese who settled in Indonesia ???

I think Indonesian government takes a lot to improve itself with immigration rules. They are not able to control all tourist activities. The government didn't even know there are people who make the Chinese colony in deep forest area in Bogor. They sweep after residents began severely disrupted, whether this omission is really unknown?

Really? free visa for tourist? -_- i really thought that Indoesia is one secure country and it strict with the tourist when they go there, now i have think of it Indonesia is really in danger because people who do illegal things they will go to Indonesia then do illegal things like drugs. Really? if they do Indonesia really is a free country.. one can solve it Indonesia will be strict at taking in tourist >.<

You need a Trump of Indonesia.

yes you right , indonesia "we" maybe need trump be president
Indonesia need leader like soeharto , make indonesia great again and make indonesia be Asian Tiger  ;D  8)

Indonesia needs a nationalist leader who is strong, armed , and suported by majority of the Citizen. 2019 election will be bet what  Indonesia will be in the future.

WOW, there is the event as "Legal Prostitution"?

in new years indonesia police seized the prostitutes from china , they just used visa for visit not for work be prostitutes in indonesia

The question is about Legal and Illegal Prostitution.
What is "Legal Prostitution" there, if exist.

no legal Prostitution in indonesia , all porn is illegal including prostitution, sex video, sex toy etc

What is the point in banning a sex toy? This is just ridiculous. Similar archaic laws also exist in India as well. Also, how the authorities are going to enforce the ban on porn? The user can just access porn through a VPN, and the government can't do anything about it.

sex toy i means like sex doll, vagina silicone , penis silicone , vagina vibrator and etc

Whataver prostitution, pornography is ilegal. Even in the online form. The govenrment banned the website via telecomunication operator.

Free sex, porn and other illegal in Indonesia, so any porn, sex, anything approaching porn should be banned. Prohibiting sex toy is a small step to keep people away from free sex. By prohibiting the sale of sex toy is meant to minimize people to masturbate.

What sort of insane laws are you guys having in your country? Why should the government prevent anyone from masturbating? It is a personal choice and the government should stay out of it. Indonesia may be the only country where masturbation is a criminal offense.

because Indonesian Very Sticky with culture and religions :) , cultures and religions prohibit masturbation because it could damage the nation's future generations

As far as I remember in Russia, too, is not welcome Masturbation. Religious figures have always stigmatized those who do. I am sure that if it were possible to detect such people in Russia would be punishment for it.

"Not welcome" is one thing, and "illegal" is another. Religious figures usually frown upon masturbation. They say that it is unnatural to get sexually excited, without the company of your spouse. Such lunatics exist everywhere. Even in your country.

Do these loonies are everywhere. I do think that initially all the stupid laws come up as religious leaders. Religion in General poisons the lives of people. If the government did not support it then it would have never happened.

Religion is not poison. Religious leaders have worked for years stdying holy book and come to statetment that all pornographies are prohibited. But now , there are some activists that reject the religion's law. That causes social instability sometimes.

Are you supporting these religious loonies? If that is the case, then I have a few questions for you.

1. Do you support their stance that masturbation and porn is evil?
2. Have you ever masturbated or watched porn?
3. Do you think that it is fair to meddle in the personal affairs (such as porn and masturbation) of others?

I agree with you. Fortunately people have a private life and I am sure that almost all people regardless of gender were engaged in Masturbation and watching porn. The only difference is that some of them admit it and some not.

Ohh, for for the case of public masturbation they will check on schizofrenia for sure,
it can fit under RF Code on administrative offenses, Chapter 20, Article 20.1
if there is not other criminal persecution problems for doing it in front of underage.
For this psychic deviation, in Russia anyone will become the recall of driver licence.

No other problems.

Masturbation doesn't have any good benefit for our body and mind. It is just halusination of wild sex. I think marry a woman ( for me a s a man) is better. We will experience real and legal sexual activity. That's gives me more happiness in life.

http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/does-frequent-ejaculation-help-ward-off-prostate-cancer

What if the individual is not able to get married? Imagine the situation in China, where among the children there are now 1,150 boys for every 1,000 girls. So what the remaining 150 is going to do? Immigrate to some poor African country and marry the girls there?

Why not they marry women from poor country. They can help the women economically besides having legal sexual activity.

I think that is a bad omen. Usually when boys are born more it's a war. Then a lot of them killed and balance restored. Now everything goes to the fact that soon there will be a third world war and China is ready for it.

It has been 72 years since the last World War ended. No one is in a hurry to start a new one. Each and every country has their own advantages and disadvantages. That includes China as well. Imagine a military confrontation between China and the United States (let's say, over Taiwan). The Chinese weaponry is no match for the advanced American equipment. Even if Russia decides to enter in to an alliance with China (very unlikely), it is going to be tough for the Chinese.

I also do not believe in such developments, but objectively, the world needs war. The more destruction the more likely to emerge from the economic crisis. The main thing now is to stay away from the fighting.