Bitcoin Forum

For the well informed, can someone englighten on what the banks are doing with block chains?

Is it simply using blockchain to confirm transaction? All looks so fancy.

Take for example the latest report about using blockchain for small business facilitated by banks *

What do they really do?



*http://www.coindesk.com/new-small-business-blockchain-actually-big-deal/

it is blockchain (the technology) not bitcoin. which means the banks and so many other financial groups are very interested in this technology and want to "create their own altcoin". they will make a ledger and possibly not even make it public and use the technology to increase their security, and speed for internal transactions.

They need blockchain to quickly confirm transactions on a global scale. Currently, when you transfer money abroad from one bank to another, you need the transaction to be manually confirmed by an operator in your local bank and then by another operator in the target bank. Also the transactions are prone to human error and not encrypted, which means both operators see your personal details.
The more money you're sending, the more people will need to check and confirm the transfer, to lock out the possibility of a cashier modifying the transaction and sending a couple millions to his personal account.

All Corporate business will some day be using blockchain technology.

The blockchain allows for easy, verifiable, transparent, and easily auditable transactions. It eliminates the opportunity to "cook the books". It makes transaction-heavy business easy to keep records of and audit.

It's something we should all celebrate. Adoption of the blockchain is good for bitcoin, it legitimizes bitcoin.

Yeah, as someone that's been working some summer jobs at a bank in its technology group, I can tell you, blockchain is one of those big buzzwords that's constantly flying around. As everyone was mentioning, many banks have begun investigating blockchain technology for fast, secure transactions, though I don't think any big bank is near adoption.

It's actually quite interesting to see the sorts of technology that banks are investing in looking into. The one I worked at, for example, was researching possible ways VR could enhance client experience in the future.

Bank is have their own Digital money but unlike Bitcoin is have a blockchain technology that can record every transaction that user made.So every bank that know Bitcoin they want to make like a blockchain technology.

The banks are trying to create a currency using the blockchain technology while the other banks would just integrate the blockchain system in their transactions. China for example have adopted blockchain technology and hence they will release their prototype fiat digital currency this September to replace the Chinese Yuan. The reason for their move into a cashless society is to solve the issue on tax evasion, money laundering and forgery.

That's right, they like the blockchain system and they want to copy ours, that would help for the banking industry for a faster and more transparent transaction but my concern is the centralization. I am pretty sure that is the big different between bitcoin and possible blockchain technology of the bank, with that plan, it is not considered as a treat for the bitcoin community but it would help us to be recognize since we are the original of that system.

Banks and other different sectors will adopt blockchain technology to store their data in distributed ledger, other than that bank may actually upgrade their traditional internet banking to blockchain based transactions. Banks are still researching on the use cases of blockchain tech, so it will be hard to tell what exactly banks are looking to do with this tech.

"Banks are still researching on the use cases of blockchain tech"

And how long is it going to take till we see some, well, any bank implementing the blockchain technology for real? Bitcoin has been around for over 7 years (so has the technology behind it), and I guess it is more than enough to put in practice what you guys are talking about here, i.e. adopting the blockchain by the banking sector in some way. Where are any implementations? Or do the banks need another 7 years till folks come to understand that this technology has nothing to offer to a deeply centralized system such as a banking one?

Seeing a lot of success with bitcoin then what you want to do. Specially those who are in financial industry. Create a new bitcoin which they own something like a mimic.
After that they have fater transactions and transparent ones which they cant do for a long time. They only offer your privacy but the files are still intact and can be seen. Here there wont be one.

maybe the next time banking sector can use blockchain technology to use transaction
but banking sector, use internet banking is very faster in transaction above bitcoin transaction and safe

It is just like, getting your money on banks, loading money or just like block chain, banks can processed their own money, we could not see what are the possibilities will happen. It we can all be one of the best on it, if the blockchain adoption by banking sector, the banking sector can earn, while rest of us, will be having a transaction fee.

They just in research how blockchain works, then they will create digital currency. The system work I'm sure will jot same as bitcoin blockchain, it's more centralized.
Bank is connected to government, and government hate how bitcoin system works.

Several banking service providers were in research about the blockchain technology relative to their requirement. As said by above mate blockchain developed will not be similar to the bitcoin's technology. The reason is that in banking sectors they need a central governance to control the flow of cash within the system. Soon we can experience blockchain making big changes in digitization.

They may release digital money based on blockchain just like bitcoin but it will be in centralized ledger and there will be no any reward for miners. They are just interested in level of security blockchain/bitcoin have.

They already have all the cryptographic tools that Bitcoin has

In fact, they may even have such tools that are not yet publicly available, so this is not an issue or point of interest to them. Just like they already have a digital currency of their own which is called fiat. The centralized ledger you mention has nothing to do with the blockchain technology, either. It exists as well, and it is called a central bank

Many banks work/grow on 'cooking the books'. This happens only when great amount of money is in play. Look at many incidents where banks were caught laundering dirty money.  If you google 'multinational banks caught in  money laundering' many search results will show.  Thus big banks surely want something which they could tweak at will.  Afterall Banks don't want transparency  but secrecy.

Indeed the blockchain technology is the answer to "trust and security" that have been very evasive but so much needed in ever facet of human endeavor. Bitcoin and its technology - blockchain is a masterpiece and worthy of celebration, but the banks and governments are opportunists and only after what they perceive as the juicy part.

They like the transparency, trust and cost effectiveness that blockchain technology brings, but they dislike Bitcoin and instead wants to tweak the same technology to develop an altcoin, that would provide for them the control that Bitcoin denied them of. At any rate and whatever they do, Bitcoin is here to stay and a copy could hardly be better than the original.

And how are they going to make use of that?

I mean employ the "trust and cost effectiveness that blockchain technology brings" to their advantage in practice? As I see it, for that they would need to create another decentralized network which would basically cost them nothing, like the Bitcoin network costs nothing since no single individual or entity grabs all the profits. Of course, the Bitcoin network does cost a lot, but these costs are compensated by profits that are shared in the same network, so it is basically a win-win situation and no costs entailed. I don't think that banks would be able to leave the costs to the network while themselves would only reap profits. In other words, who will be running network for them for free?

The legacy systems of banks are hugely inefficient. They have vast back offices just to reconcile trades, which blockchain does automatically. And it takes 2-3 days to confirm transfer of ownership of assets, which can be done in minutes using the blockchain. So obviously they are interested in blockchain technology.

Did you ask yourself who will be supporting all the network infrastructure required for the blockchain technology to work? It seems that you are implicitly assuming that folks will run their nodes just for enabling banks to employ this technology? So who will be paying for it? Also, don't forget that it should be excessively abundant to make confirmations valid, but this still doesn't provide the required legal status of any such transaction. If the sender (or receiver) disputes the transaction, what evidence and proofs can the bank show that the disputed transaction did actually happen?

Really, why would banks ever want to depend on some Internet dudes in such matters?

Yes, they want the blockchain technology to reduce the cost of its services, and reduce the time that now they need to complete a transaction. But they don't want the transparency and the decentralization that bitcoin blockchain has.

i do not think that currency they need for such technology, as they have no concern with it, the already using their own technology like ONE LINK, but in future when the interest of the people will totally divert to online business ans shopping as in modern countries the change has already take place, then they may think about to adopt blockchain technology.

I am sure that the banks only talking about the possibility of implementing these tehnologity. In practice, this will not happen soon. Some banks say that this technology will be able to keep track of debtors. How will it be in practice, I also can not imagine

Banks won't depended on some internet dudes. They will run permissioned block chains, with 15-20 banks participating as a consortium. Once the development costs are factored in, this will definitely be cheaper than manual verification and clearing of trades.

Unfortunately the bankings are just adoption blockchains technology
they still didn't adoption bitcoin become digital currency on their business
they have adopted blockchains technology for making easy services on their business.

And now ask yourself why they would need this consortium in the first place?

To confirm transactions from one trusted bank to another trusted bank? But if they trust each other, why would they need confirmations from other banks? Ultimately, they are all trusting a Central bank, and that's how the system works (if I'm not mistaken). Namely, transaction from one bank to another bank goes through an intermediary which is the Central bank. There is absolutely no need for the setup you assume. In any case, it is the Central bank which sets the rules for all commercial banks in its system, and I don't think that it will ever endorse this idea (basically because of its existence as such)

Blockchain technology offers a lot of new opportunities for banks and financial institutes. The driving factor is to decrease costs. Banks do not need intermediate clearing companies (which charges fees for every transaction) anymore.

Banking processes as presently is, is expensive and very time consuming as it relies heavily on a team of people to nose through books and figures. Use of blockchain technology however offers some relief that are irresistible and here is what some banks are making of the situation:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/banking/finance/banking/big-banks-plan-interbank-blockchain-platform/articleshow/56770736.cms

I was reading the article and it suddenly struck me why this idea might not work out. Below is the interesting part that pushed me toward this conclusion (emphasis added):


So why would any bank want to make its transactions known to other banks? I understand that they can be made anonymous, but how would the banks then find out who is the receiver of the funds sent (in the sending bank) and who sent them (in the receiving bank)? For this system to work, the banks would have to disclose all the details of the transactions they are sending to another bank to all other banks in this system. Indeed, they could encrypt the contents but why then not send the transaction directly to the receiving bank signing it with the public key?

I still don't see any sense in this endeavor

The technology behind bitcoin is the greatest invention and so is the reason blockchain is being adopted or planning to adopt by major financial institutes.Adopting bitcoin as a mode of payment depends upon individual business owners as it is not a adopted by the majority of people.Once the demand increases then you could see major business accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment and inorder to do so they have to sort the transaction delay we are facing right now.

From what I have heard, there was a bunch of hype about the blockchain being used by banks because everyone thought it was going to be some insane revolution within banking, but then everyone realized that it's just a large and expensive, however more secure, database.

It has more application in stock trading, like what The Royal Mint or whatever it was was planning to do with gold.

Sector of financial technologies is pretty stiff. Banks are still using some really ancient solutions, they used more than 100 years ago!
You didn't know that? Wire transfer - which is pretty much the most popular method of sending money thought bank network was first performed in 1872 via telegraph network.
And you think thank will Banks change their ways just because blockchain in here?

Yes you are right and I think it is just about time for banks adopt bitcoin too,
Wait until there are many people whom use bitcoin for payment method on their life
so the banks must adopt bitcoin on their service not blockchain technology only.

Nope,they wont accept bitcoin no matter what since government do really knows about bitcoins decentralization infact if they know about blockchain technology they will surely create their own coin or e-currency rather than accepting bitcoin on banks.Its an impossible thing to happen.

I would like to quote something from ICICI Bank's Official Page-


So in today's era, large number of banks started using blockchain technology for their working and it may be possible that we will see a completely different banking system within next decade!

Banks don't like bitcoin but they adore blockchain. According to fortune blockchain will be used by 15% of big banks by 2017 and after four years IBM claims that 66% of banks expected to operate blockchain in commercial production http://fortune.com/2016/09/28/blockchain-banks-2017/. As it is easily understood banks even after a 8 years they found out the potential of blockchain and nowadays they running to simplify transactions, to lower the costs and to offer new banking products in the extended financial ecosystem.

This is something more than the bitcoin, they are working on blockchain to improve the speed of their transactions and confirmation. It has nothing to do with bitcoin unless any bank directly accepting or giving any service regarding bitcoin. Have a look at this news,

ICICI Bank executes India’s first banking transactions on blockchain in partnership with Emirates NBD (https://www.icicibank.com/aboutus/article.page?identifier=news-icici-bank-executes-indias-first-banking-transactions-on-blockchain-in-partnership-with-emirates-nbd-20161210162515562).

Banks are interested in this technology because this technology is faster than the traditional way of confirming transactions on global level.

Great job for the bank for copying the blockchain technology system, it will help them to minimize their expenses while maximize their income if you know what I mean.
With blockchain technology like, they do not need to invest in high cost system just to track their transactions as with blockchain everything is fast and easy. This news is good and for sure with this experiment when successful, it will trigger other banking sector to follow.

Of course they interested to blockchain technology but I don't think they will use the same blockchain as bitcoin but the idea similar to bitcoin blockchain which allowed for newer, potentially and better ways to complete and record instantly all transactions without any mistake from human error. The bank blockchain won't directly affected bitcoin as the technology not support or accept bitcoin but for manage fiat money.

Block chain adoption is not only in bitcoins .but it has been widely used in banking sector and it industry like salesforce .they are also using the concept of bitcoins .

Exactly, It would open the whole new world of possibilities not only for the banking sector but also for the other sectors where there is a requirement of big data and accessibility of such data.  For example,

Blockchain-based Property Ownership Recording System (http://chromaway.com/papers/A-blockchain-based-property-registry.pdf).

Bitcoin is a very first step of blockchain technology and eventually, we will see how this technology will influence the other sectors too.

Blockchain is type of managing and maintaining database. So, any industry which are based on database may try to use blockchain according to their specific needs. Blockchain will helps them to manage database in a distributed computing manner.

Blockchain is a revolution in data managing field. So, we can expect more enhancements in respective industries due to adopting blockchain technology.

Yes but the banks are just adoption concept of bitcoin and blockchain technology
they don't really adopt bitcoin as currency on their banks
 because bitcoin can not be controled by them.

Although we may perceive banks as being traditional financial institutions, some of them are now trying to keep up with the changing times. Nowadays, you would find banks that are offering high yield, high risk types of investments. If they are going to adopt blockchain altogether, it is not impossible for them to create a new investment instrument which is similar to bitcoin.

If they would adopt blockchain then for sure they will create new ways or services or even creating a new e-currency as long they could able to saw that they would able to make money. Blockchain adoption is very possible because we are now on a high-technology era.

It's a different method they are gonna use and for sure that is still very similar to the present banking system when it comes to the fees and the transparency of transaction. Once they adopt and we transact with bank, we will no longer gonna have our anonymity as I am pretty sure we will be complying lots of banking rules and guidelines.

France biggest bank BNP Paribas,Barclays in UK, Santander in spain and citigroup have all started showing interest in blockchain technology.Blockchains has an unparalleled potential to revolutionize the banking system by improving efficiency and limiting costs.Large business to business transfers could be completed with significantly lower costs.Latest technologies  are always adopted by banking systems as how they introduced online payments and ecommerce in the mid 90s and now, the block chain technology.

Good to know that banking industry are very interested with the blockchain technology, although they will not adopt with bitcoin, it is a good change of the system to benefit the masses. Cheap and fast transaction is what we need, and with bank we can feel secure with our money transfered.
This should happen soon so other banks will follow, lucky are those who stays in a develop countries as they are the ones who can try it first it ever it will be realize soon.

The interest shown by many, but to introduce this technology has not yet wish. I think banks are not willing to ensure that all operations keep open. There, too, corruption is rampant

I dont believe that big westerness banks are intersted in blockchain,it will cut his transaction profit.Blockchain is to much transparent ,big banks prefer hide everything in his bank books
But blockchain banking will occur in China,Chinise are working on that kind of project and we can expect similar things in Swizerland.World is changing fast so maybe in close future blockchain banking will be available all over the world

Banks will adopt blockchain technology for sure, it is crucial for them to save time and expenses. I dont now about cryptos, i cant think they like BTC but i cant think of a way to override it

Currently banks are in testing phase and nobody knows whether blockchain technology implementation would work correctly for them or not. What would happen unknown blocks or what will be correct blocksize for them.
Thus it is too early celebrate. One thing I don't understand is why people connect bitcoin acceptance with banks are experimenting with blockchain.  Many people think that acceptance of blockchain is directly proportional to the bitcoin acceptance. Blockchain acceptance has nothing to do with bitcoin acceptance. Even if banks or any other sector implement blockchain then it is not going to affect the bitcoin world at all.

I have similar thoughts about this matter, here in thread no one knows for facts how much is cost for fiat maintenance and in my seeing bitcoin is easier and cheaper to maintain then it is fiat.
You can't override bitcoin, and maybe banks will try that with some new alt coin in the end I don't agree with lordquanta words, if banks accept blockchain that will be huge boost for bitcoin community. People will start to read what is blockchain, what is alt coin, and they will see what bitcoin is.

We don't know that for sure

Bitcoin may be cheaper to maintain than fiat by simple virtue that it is not yet as big as fiat (and which fiat exactly?). If we take the US dollar as a reference with many trillion dollars in circulation, then even if we assume that all 17M bitcoins mined by now are in circulation (which is apparently a far cry from reality) that will make only a minuscule fraction. It might well be that Bitcoin would turn totally unsupportable and useless if it were to come close to the US dollar in terms of circulation volume

Not just time and expenses, blockchain technology will cover many other aspects of banking sector preciously security features. The efficient data management in secure way is the top layer benefits of adopting blockchain technology to be benefited by banks.

Why you are forgetting to consider the infinitely divisible feature of electronic formats ?
If you consider bitcoin's satoshi as a basic unit there would be 17 M *10^8 bitcoin units in circulation against dollars. Again we can have centi-satoshi and milli-satoshi if needed. If volume is the big consideration, I believe bitcoin is already versatile to cover up this.

That's for sure, there's a reason why dollar is called the strongest currency in the world and as a characteristics of s strong currency, it is widely accepted all over the world which means it will be a hard journey for bitcoin to reach the level of success dollar had. The adoption that people are speculating will never happen with the bank, they have their own and most likely just improve theirs if they see something useful that will help to maintain their standing in the top.

Obviously, you miss the whole point of my post

Infinite divisibility is irrelevant to it. In essence, I'm talking about the load on the network (read number of transactions processed per unit of time). If Bitcoin circulation comes close to that of the US dollar (in fact, if it just increases a few times beyond what it is now), the load on the network will increase multifold as well (unless we have something like LN implemented) and it will just get stuck being unable to process these trillions (or just billions) of transactions. I hope now you understand how inconsequential your remark is to my thought

Why would any centralized company/organization wants to use blockchain? they are in control of everything and they have all the records.
It's not like banks trying to double spend their own money, since people can't access their system there is no need to implement such technology.

Becasue they're connected to each other, and they're using an old and slow system at the moment to exchange data between their systems. World is changing, now, when you can send an email in some minutes to the farest country, why your money would still remain slow? Today, if you want to transfer money from a bank to another bank in a different county, you have to wait 2-3 days. If banks have a blockchain based clearing system, they will clear transactions in an hour, and not in 2-3 days time. This is the goal, this is why they're trying to find a solution, but as long as they are only developing the technology, it's quite a slow process.

People want a faster and cheaper transaction and bitcoin has delivered that to us, the bank sees that as an opportunity to grow their market and to attract more clients. Not necessarily that they will adopt but they are developing their own system, we don't know yet what would it look like as they had not release it if there's any. My interest only falls with bitcoin and I wan the current system will work until the future, and if possible no government intervention.

The bank are only interested in using the technology and create their own private larger, I agree with your comments on  the reason why bank are developing they own blockchain. They might not using bitcoin but this will promote bitcoin as bitcoin created the foundation for blockchainer.

Just probably for fancy, its not like they can make it decentralized unless they are creating their own token under an algo which any one can mine or perhaps under a platform like ETH. If the blockchain technology are just there for tracking the fiat of individuals, its still not going to be something as useful as it should be, the government still hold its value and not the market itself.



Yes, its probably just for records so they can track the riches of someone.

What's private larger?LOL. Blockchain is the another chance for the bank to take more advantages for his system. They will be running on the fully automatic system with the blockchain adoption. Blockchain is not about bitcoin and it's not promoting bitcoin.

I think that the word blockchain often comes along with the word bitcoin. People who are not very familiar with that often think it's the same.
When banks start to work with blockchain technology, I'm sure a lot of people think that this includes bitcoin somehow.
To me that is some free promotion bitcoin gets.

Blockchain might have some benefits for banks.For instance reducing internal costs due to process and workflow improvements.For those institutions it's all about efficiency.
Furthermore when banks are making businesses, trades with other banks, they often depend on an intermediary.
With Blockchain they may get rid off that 3rd party.

they are going to put themselves under a series of troubles if they operate under a blockchain network. its going to be a big decision for them and  i doubt they'd really implement such unless of course their own chain can be altered all the time. for that they can hide all the transactions that could get mess them up.

For banks efficiency is now more important than ever.
I am sure they have some capable people in their software departement.
If they can manage to adapt the blockchain technology in their system, they will be able to save some money (and fire some people who are now not needed anymore).
From the point of view a bank has, that makes perfect sense.

i think the banks is already learning and trying to implemented blockchain technology but they are not make any statement about this and i think they want to test it to make sure that the blockchain is really help them with their technology. unfortunately, we don't know what the banks do with the blockchain technology but i am sure that in the future, if the banks is ready, they will make press release and tell the people that blockchain technology can give benefits for them.